Ep 1110 | Phil’s First Words After Jase’s Bloody Accident Were Not What You’d Expect
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We, um...

I'm in the studio, Jace. It's been a minute. And it was weird. Last podcast, you just left before it was over. Yeah, we had to close it out without you, Al. Well, I think that was the first time that's ever happened. Jace, you were the one that closed it out. Did y'all wonder why I left so quickly? I figured it had something to do with nature and the way that God designed our bodies. Exactly. People loved it there. People said it was the best close ever.

The greatest close in history. I didn't want to make it about me. I've been accused of having narcissistic tendencies. That's really what I thought. I thought in an effort of your subconscious to be revealed that you just would leave before it was over to show that you were not a narcissist. Yeah.

Well, it was one of those situations, and then I was going to rush right back in and try to catch the last two minutes, but then there were some issues with the bathroom. Let's just stop there. We don't need to go any further. Let's stop there. I will gag. I have been on the gag on the podcast. Zach, one of my favorite moments on this podcast is when Jace got you to gag with the snake story. I actually almost told that story yesterday.

During Phil's funeral? Because it was an epic story. I think it was good that you didn't. I think that would have been too much. You're going to speak to some preaching school students coming up. Maybe you could throw that in there. Which is kind of shocking, you know. I mean, I did go to a—Al, you were there two years. But it just was— Oh, we were laughing because you were asked to speak to these students and—

Zach assumed when he heard you say, speaking to students, that it was me. He said, when are you going out? I said, no, it's not me. Because you're the preacher. It's not the guy that preached for 25 years. Can you imagine? It's nice. He made it through one year of internship. And he's speaking at the school that I graduated from. I sat in those Bible classes. Can you imagine how that meeting went? You want to have a special speaker for preaching school students. Who would we get? Who would we get? I know. I know.

Let's get a guy who is pretty much agenda-less in the organized religion world. Did you say gender-less? Agenda-less. Agenda-less. With a man of your vocabulary, I thought you would get that one. I didn't hear it. I have no agenda. No, it cut out of my ear. I was like, I know we didn't say that, but I was trying to clarify.

My earphones cut out. I do that. So they got the guy with no agenda. You know what's funny is that, you know, I mean, he changed his cell phone provider because I kept hanging up on it. He thought his calls were dropping. But the other one he hasn't gotten yet is every time I'll do my own static, you know.

And I'll do the broke up speech. And he's like, hey, we're losing connection. I'll call you back. It's like, I was faking the whole time. You're so gullible, Zach. I'll tell Missy and she laughs. She's like,

He never figured it out. No, not that he didn't do it. I do it all the time. I'm like, he's talking about something I don't want to talk about. So all of a sudden, I'm like, I can't. What? And Zach's like, I'll call you back. Zach, we're still playing tricks on you after all these years. I tell you, speaking of narcissism, somebody's got narcissistic tendencies around here. Well, we've been telling a lot of stories recently because someone on our production team had asked about stories of our youth.

for some reason. And so I've been retelling a lot of stories and I was, we had, we were talking about wrestling recently and an episode of the show because a lot of the old shows, Doug Nancey shows have been going around the new show. And so that was one of my favorite episodes because we loved wrestling so much. And so we would like every Saturday night, uh,

It would come on like at 9 or 10 o'clock at night. It was fairly late. And we would watch it, and then we would put a quilt in the living room, and then we would practice all the new things that we saw. Of course, you know, we were doing it for real. Power drives, DDTs. Yeah, all the moves, the belly to backs, you know, all the moves. And we loved it whenever the cousins would come visit, Zach, this would be where you would enter the picture, because then we got to practice our moves on you. And we would tag team.

Like, you know, us, all our moves. Clothesline. Yeah. I've been a victim of the clothesline several times. Yeah, I got PTSD. That's honestly being down there for the funeral and everything. It was like there was a lot of trauma that came back up just from being around all the cousins in that room. I was like, there's a lot of pain here, a lot of pain, a lot of undealt with stuff.

You know what I mean? We're here for you, Zach. It was volatile. So we got the, just to remind everybody, I wanted to tell you all this. So I'm going to come down, Jace. I think I'm going to come down for the Faith, Family, and Freedom extravaganza at the Logtown Estate on June, what is it again? June 29th. June 29th. It's the third annual.

Third annual. And you can get the information on logtownestate.com is the information for the event. Missy's done it for about three years. It's a lot. It's great because it's a...

It's obviously patriotic, but it has a gospel center as well because we like to share Jesus. I mean, y'all baptize people every year too. Every year, a lot of folks. It's a great time to do that. WFR, I'll be preaching that day, and we have the Unashamed Bible Class as well. So, Zach, we're so glad you're going to try to make it. I will. Jason will say this is a shameless plug, but it's not because I actually looked on the Hayjack site. If you guys sign up for this, this is incredible.

You can book, like I'm going to give you the example of what I'm doing, the Holiday Inn Express in West Monroe. If you book it on Expedia for the same period that I booked, it's going to be $417.64.

If you book that same hotel on the Hayjack site, you sign up and book it there. It's $413 and you get an additional $58.85 cash back. So I'm telling you, if you're going to book, go download the Hayjack, go sign up for it. You guys will get incredible savings on hotels there. This is a pretty good thing that we're offering here. So I'd love for you guys to be a part of it. And we're giving away $500 cash.

to somebody who signs up within the next couple weeks. That's Faith Family Freedom, which is going to be a lot of fun. We have a big fireworks show at the end that's now been moved out of the middle of the people. Yeah, for everyone who survived the first year of that, we're grateful.

And I noticed that our brother-in-law, Tony, has painted even one of his paintings of your estate with the fireworks behind it, which is really cool. So he'll be out there doing some stuff, too. It's good quality fun. It's good stuff. So anyway, we'd love to see that weekend. Come on down to Westman. And it's free. And it's free. Yeah, you show up. There you go. So we're ready to get back to John.

The last podcast we did a detour because I had preached a sermon, which kind of was birthed out of this idea of Abraham that the people brought up that Jesus was teaching in John chapter 8. And then we got to that last segment.

which we've talked about a couple of times where Jesus sort of has that mic drop moment because they keep bringing up Abraham. But yeah, remember, they're really, the volatility here is rising because they're ready to kill him now. I mean, you know, this is getting to a point where it's like, wait a minute, who do you think you are? And in fact, we didn't mention this, I don't think before, but in John 8, 48, it's,

They say, aren't we right in saying that you are Samaritan, which would have been a slur in their minds at the time because remember Jesus was from Galilee, from Nazareth area. So they were like, wait a minute, you're not even one of us. And then they said, and demon possessed. So they like double down on Jesus. And then they say that again in verse 52, they,

And they keep trying to make this claim that you can't be one with the Father. You can't be from Yahweh. You're not even one of us. And so that's where we're going with this situation. And then Jesus finally says in verse 54, if I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, Yahweh, is the one who glorifies me.

Though you do not know him, I know him. Which is, you know about that statement. That's bold. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you. But I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day. He saw it and was glad, which is pretty amazing. I wanted to just interject something. So you just read that. Look at this theme. I think we...

The danger of going paragraph by paragraph, chapter by chapter, is you kind of miss the thread line of things that he continues to say, which becomes the problem in their ears. And I saw this and I wanted to bring it up. If you just put these verses together, just look at the consistency of what he's saying. So in John 5, 19.

He says, Jesus gave them this answer. I'll tell you the truth. The son can do nothing by himself. He can do only what he sees his father doing, because whatever the father does, the son also does. For the father loves the son and shows him all he does. Yes.

To your amazement, he will show him even greater things than these. So he's making this claim that this father whom you're serving, God, Yahweh, I'm his son. So he says it in 519. Well, then look at 716. He makes another profound statement along the same lines. Jesus answered, my teaching is not my own. It comes from him alone.

Who sent me? Well, who's him who sent me? The father. Yes, my father. So look at 819. It's the same general theme. He says, they said, where's your father? Where's your father? You do not know me or my father. Jesus replied, if you knew me, you would know my father also. But they ask, you know, where's the father? You do not know me or my father. So he's assuming I'm in pretty good graces with him. If you knew me, you'd know me.

My father also. And do you think, Jace, before you read the next one, that there's a little implication about his situation with Joseph and maybe the controversy around him? You think it has nothing to do with that? I mean, I always felt like there was, because later on they say we're not illegitimate. Yeah. And they don't say like you, but I mean, I'm just wondering if like the story of his background maybe comes into play. He had the wrong zip code. Right.

I like staying at Al's house. It's your home away from home. It's my home away from home. I know I'm going to sleep good tonight because I will be on a Helix mattress. We are a Helix home. You are. You guys took the quiz and what did you come back with? I was the moonlight. The moonlight? Yeah. And I think...

We took the quiz and we were matched with a midnight luxe mattress, which means it's not too firm, not too soft. And it's perfect for us because Jill and I both are side sleepers. We've had our Helix mattress for a couple of years now, and it's been the best sleep we've ever had. We are all a Helix family. Me, Jill, Alisa, Jace, Missy, everybody's sleeping on Helix mattresses. And not only do I just sleep better, but I'm also a good sleeper.

in general on my Helix mattress, but I also noticed less hip pain, shoulder pain. One of the things that I miss most when I travel is my Helix mattress, which is why I love staying with you guys because you got the same mattress that I got in one of your side rooms. I've actually tracked how much my sleep has improved on my sleep tracker, and I was shocked at how much better it's been since we've had our Helix mattress. For a limited time, go to helixsleep.com slash unashamed for 27% off site-wide.

exclusive for our listeners of Unashamed. That's helixsleep.com slash unashamed for 27% off site-wide. helixsleep.com slash unashamed. It's like there's no way, which is why they accused him, or they're going to accuse him in chapter 9, you know, of being sinful. But the next one says, this is 829.

And this is interesting. In 28, it says, So Jesus said, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be. Which, what is he claiming? He's claiming to be in close proximity, the closest of the Father. And that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me.

He has not left me alone for I always do what pleases him. I mean, I don't know how else he could say this. So even if we fast forward, which the one you just read is in 854, but then even in 1030, watch what he's going to say in 10, chapter 10 and verse 30. I mean,

I and the father are one. Yeah. I mean, we're pretty much straightforward now. Yeah. I mean, that kind of comes from, he says, my father who has given them to me in 1029 is, is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my father's hand. I am the father.

Yeah, it's one, and that oneness is a one in essence, the one in nature, the one in being. I think this is like what a lot of people miss, though, that what we're seeing here is this idea of God being triune unfolded.

Because that thing that Jesus says in 854 is a pretty profound point if you really just start to simmer in that Jesus' answer when he says, if I glorify myself, my glory is nothing.

It is my Father who glorifies me. So you see two persons in this concept of glorification. And what Jesus is saying is, I'm not here to draw glory to myself. That means nothing. God the Father glorifies me. And then if you skip over to John 17, who is Jesus glorifying? He's glorifying the Father. I was getting to that one. 1721. I'll go ahead and read it.

Because that was the last one I was going to read. 1721, well, in 20 and 21, it says, My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.

May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. And in verse 4, when Jesus is about to go to his death, he said, I've glorified you on earth. So Jesus is saying, I've glorified the Father on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before death.

the world existed. And so there's these interesting phrases in the prophecies of Isaiah where the father is speaking to the son and he's basically saying, you're the only person that I'm going to share my glory with. I'm not sharing my glory with anybody else but you. The father kind of speaking to the son.

And then the son in John 17, it's interesting because he takes the glory that he receives from the father and then he shares that glory with us, which is incredible to think about of God's glory almost being like an overflowing fountain that we kind of get to

participate in this divine nature. It's almost scary to even say that, but it does seem to be what the text is indicating. And I think what you're seeing here is the very nature of God. You're seeing a God who does share his love with his creation, which is, I mean, I even hate to say it because it sounds so scary to say that. Well, think about what you both just said in relationship to how John started the book.

In John 1.1, in the beginning was the Logos, the Word, and the Logos was with Yahweh,

And the Logos was Yahweh. He was with Yahweh in the beginning. The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us. So here's your point, Zach. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only, the Logos, who came from the Father, Yahweh, full of grace and truth. So that's exactly how he starts the whole narrative. Yeah, and so here's the cool part about it. I love that Jason was hitting on this oneness idea. He said, why?

Why is this the way that it works? Why does the Father only share His glory with the Son, and then the Son shares His glory with us, with people? What's the point? Why would you do that? Why would God do that? What is the end goal here? Here's verse 22 of John 17.

The glory that you have given me, I have given to them. This is Jesus speaking. The glory that you've given to me, Father, I've given to them. Why? Why did I do that? That they may be one even as we are one.

I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one so that the world may know that you sent me and love them even as you have loved me. I mean, that's the reason why. So when you read and when Peter says that we become partakers in the divine nature, that's what he's talking about, that we actually get to participate in

In the triune nature of God, we get to participate in that and be a part of that and experience the fullness of who God is. Well, I say fullness. We get to experience it in measure, but we get to experience something so incredibly wonderful of diversity and unity being accomplished in ultimate, unadulterated relationship and intimacy. That's what's at stake here. That's where this is going to. Yeah. I mean, what I was going to say is I think that's why people misunderstand John 14.

Which is in the middle of all this. Of course, I'm going down a rabbit hole now. But we just read all this. I and them, them and us. You know, as we are one, they may be one. I mean, all this, everybody's in each other here. I mean, it's close proximity. So when you read John 14, and he's like...

Do not let your hearts be troubled. You know, in my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, I would have told you I'm going there to prepare a place for you, which is...

They're like, well, where are you going? Remember, they were having trouble wrapping their head. They didn't want him to leave, yeah. They didn't understand why he would leave. But then he starts explaining it. He's like, well, unless I leave, I can't come to you. And you're like, what? Well, then he starts talking about the Holy Spirit. So then later on in chapter 14, he's like,

You know, if you love me and trust me, verse 23, my father will love him and we will come to him and make our home with him. So people are like, well, wait a minute. What is it? I thought you were going to the father's house to make a room. And he's like, yeah, but when I do that, I'm going to come to you.

You're like, wait, what? He's like, yeah, the Holy Spirit's going to come. And then my father's going to come. And then we're going to all be one with you, which he explains in John 17. That's why it's like all of a sudden everybody is with everybody. I'm talking about God, Father, the Holy Spirit, you. You're in us. We're in you.

And we're not waiting on the mansion. We become the house. Well, exactly. And so I'm just saying, one, Jesus is revealing the character of his father. Yeah. And I think that's the reason I wanted to show this, because in this next chapter, it's a strange occurrence that is what's happening. But all of a sudden, through something really bad, a guy being born blind. Right.

God reveals in Jesus his character in this situation. It's very moving, powerful, because it's the last person on earth that people notice. No, and you're right. And I think it's this idea of seeing. So let me read these last few, and then let's get to chapter 9. So I said in the last verse in 56, this is 856, Your father Abraham rejoiced, listen to this, at the thought of seeing...

There's a big word for where we're headed. Seeing my day. So think about this. He's talking about the man that they brought up that lived, you know how many years before Jesus in this moment where he's talking? 2,000 years.

So the same amount of time it's been since Jesus was here for us. 2,000 years, he was looking ahead to this day, because we're fixing to talk a lot about blindness in the next chapter. Here was a guy, and we know this because of Genesis 22. There are several cases. Zach, in the last podcast, you and I both read from Genesis 15. But in Genesis 22, we know for a fact, because the Hebrew writer tells us,

that when Abraham was asked to kill his only son, the only heir,

that would be the promises of God, the Hebrew writer said, Abraham reasoned to the resurrection. How do you reason to the resurrection unless you see some possibility of something? He had to have seen a prototype of Christ. Exactly. Because if you read that whole, that's such a brilliant thing too that you just brought up. Because when you see, and it has everything to do with, by the way, because the question you could ask is, when did Abraham see the day of Jesus? Because Jesus said he saw it. Right.

When did he see it? So that's one of the instances that he saw it. And what's interesting about that story is when they were going up the mountain for the sacrifice, two things happened that I thought were super interesting that aren't in the Hebrews gives kind of the full picture of this, but you even see it in just the Hebrew scriptures as well. When Abraham says, me and the child are going up to do a sacrifice and we will come back.

So he asked, he said, you know, how would he, why would he say that if he's going to say, he knows he's going to sacrifice Isaac. So why would he say we're going to come back? Like he, he, he had whatever he had reasoned in his mind. He, he had this reason of what God was going to do. Now, the second thing that happened is whatever Isaac asked his dad when they were on the way up that mountain, which this always makes me tear up when I think about it, like they're going up here to do this, the sacrifice and,

and Abraham's going to sacrifice his own son, and Isaac doesn't know what's going on at all. He's like, hey, Dad, I see the wood for the sacrifice, but I don't see the sacrifice. And Abraham could have said, well, it's on you, buddy. You're the sacrifice, but he doesn't say that. He says the Lord will provide. ♪

You guys know how much I love The Chosen and the way it brings the gospel of Jesus to light and to life on the big screen. And season five is now currently streaming on Prime Video.

The creator is a good friend of mine, Dallas Jenkins. He's a friend of the podcast, and the series has become quite the global phenomenon, which is a good thing in the name of Jesus. Come on, somebody. Jase, you were at the Season 5 premiere. I was. You've seen it. The table's set. The final hours are approaching. I guess the final hours are here because it's out on Prime Video now. What do you want our listeners to know about Season 5? Well, even though I was sitting in the wrong seat—

When I saw the premiere, it was, you know, it's what Jesus does. You watch it, it gives pictures to it, and then you reflect on your life and you make necessary changes. And it was an emotional rollercoaster. They did a fantastic job.

You will love it. Yeah, I want you to listen to the description, guys, because if you didn't already want to watch season five, this will do it. Loyalties will be tested, pushed to the edge of faith and trust. Friendships will be questioned, challenged, and shaken by uncertainty and doubt. Alliances will be broken and families will be divided and nothing will ever be the same again. So this is a journey of faith, doubt, hope, transformation, and love. Experience the incredible story of one unforgettable night that changed the course of history forever.

And we all know this is a story so profound. It didn't just change lives. It actually changed the world. So I'll be watching the new season. You don't want to miss this one. Season five is now streaming on Prime Video. And so I thought about that. Like if you were in that moment, Genesis 22, you think, what did Abraham do? Because God did not... He actually, when he got up there, he did not sacrifice Isaac. But...

He reasoned that he was going to. So he actually, and this is a prototype of the faith too, that Abraham actually got it wrong. He did not understand what was going to happen up on top of that mountain. He didn't know how God was going to accomplish his will, but he knew that he was. He knew that when God makes a covenant, when God makes a promise, and when he says through Isaac, your offspring will be reckoned. This promise is going to happen through Isaac.

And Abraham knew that that was true. And so whatever he thought, I'll go up there, I'll kill Isaac, but I know God's not a liar, so I guess he's going to raise Isaac from the dead.

That's not what happened, but that's according to Hebrews what Abraham thought. And I love that picture because it's a picture of how we should oppress our own faith is it's not knowing how God is going to accomplish his promise. It's knowing that God will accomplish his promise. And then what he did on that mountain was you see the picture of a substitutionary atonement.

That in the place of Isaac, you see the ram caught in the thicket that becomes the sacrifice in place of him. And so you see all of that picture there. Christ...

In his substitutionary atonement for the sin of humanity, you see that in the picture of Abraham and his son Isaac and the ram on top of that mountain. So, Zach, someone asked the question, should I pray for the ultimate submission and do everything God has asked me to do, or should I pray for some sort of substitution? The answer is yes.

Yes. Yes. I mean, I pray for the will of God to be done in my life. And that means that I'm willing to say, Jesus. So in verse 57, he says, they say, you're not 50 years old. Because see, they're hung up on the, wait a minute, this is 2,000 years ago. And you've seen Abraham? I mean, what a joke. He says, I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am. Back to the same statement at the burning bush.

the recognition of the divinity of himself in this moment. And what is their response? They can't see him. At this, they picked up stones to stone him because of blasphemy, but Jesus hid himself slipping away from the temple ground. So I think that's why he launches into this next story. I think that's why John puts it. Well, and I think they translated that. I looked up the Greek on that page.

The word born is not in there. They just put, I guess, because they were trying to get you to wrap your head around that. The reason I looked it up, because then the next verse says there was a man born blind. So I thought, oh, is that the same word? No, they just, the translators put that in there. Where's that at? John 8? In 58. It should say before Abraham. Yeah, it just says before Abraham was, I am. Yeah.

Which is even bigger than I first thought. You know what I mean? It was like before he was just in existence, which is what that word is before he was. Yeah, I am. The way I kind of read that too is he's saying...

I am the present tense in the past. I am the present tense in the future. I am the present tense now. Like, I'm present. It's not weird for human beings because there's so many religious arguments about, you know, the nature of God. But you kind of get in this conversation, it's really hard to describe. It is. What he just said. It is. It's like, before he was, I am.

Now you have my attention, Doug. You said it to me. It's like an elevation. Like I'm speaking of myself without the boundaries of time. Yeah. That's what he's doing. And I think too- Or really space. Space or time. Yeah, there's no- I mean, with him, he just is. Throw in matter for that. Which is why when I hear people make theological arguments where they're saying, well, God couldn't do this or God can't do that.

And I always immediately think, hmm, so you're going to put yourself on the other side of time and space and decide what can and can't be done. Now, this ought to be an interesting point you're about to make because the only time I say God can't do anything is something he says he can't do. Like, like, like, like. There's another thread here that I studied a while back, and I don't know if it applies to this text, but I think it does. So there's these –

people called Targums around the time of Jesus that would, they were like these guys that would take the Septuagint, which is the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew and,

Then it got translated into Greek. And so they would take the Greek and they would take this and interpret it and teach it to the people in, I think, Aramaic. And so one of the things that in the Old Testament, these are people like, these are not Christians. These are Jewish leaders that would teach people in the synagogues, I believe. And one of the problems that they had with the Hebrew language when they would interpret it in the Greek, they would say, it seems to be that there's...

another person in the God, like the God, they thought it was like maybe two persons. And one of them they would call Yahweh. And the other one they would say was like the word of Yahweh. And they really tried to deal with this in the scripture. And you can read all about this in the history. It's really fascinating. So the word that they would use to translate as the word of Yahweh in Greek or Aramaic, the word was logos.

Which is the same exact word at the beginning of the Gospel of John when it says that in the beginning was the Logos. The Logos was with God. The Logos was God. So it's almost like they would have understood this to say, hey, you know all of those Old Testament verses when it says the word of the Lord, which is translated the word of Yahweh, which they would have translated the Logos of Yahweh? Yeah. Yeah.

Guess what? He has a name. His name is Jesus. And so then you can go back and read in Genesis 15. I mean, I've got a list of them right here. You can read Genesis 15. We already mentioned Genesis 22. You can mention Genesis 18. So there's all these scriptures now where you would see Jesus.

that Jesus, or the Son at least, the Logos of God, is actually active throughout the entire Old Testament and did in fact meet and have encounters with Abraham on multiple occasions, which I think is what he's talking about here when he says that Abraham did see Jesus and the day that he's him. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with that whatsoever because before Abraham was...

I am. Yeah. I mean, it's quite the claim. And I think this idea of being able to see that, and it's like we were talking about the idea of death, because I didn't mention this back in verse 52, when they were just kind of railing on Jesus saying he was demon possessed, they say, and yet you say...

He will never, if someone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Then they said, are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, so did the prophets. Who do you think you are? But Jesus is making the point of what we've been talking about. When you cross over, you don't taste death.

Like people do without the heavenly crossover. Like, in other words, it's different. And that's what's his point. Well, you experienced the same death that he did, which it was impossible for death to keep its hold on. Keep its hold on, yeah. I mean, when you're dead, what's the difference really in being dead three days or 30 years as long as you come back? Yeah.

Which if you believe in the I am, if you believe... Well, how many times did he say I am in this chapter, Al? Oh, it was 10 and just one chapter alone. And he just said it here. I'm not seeking the glory for myself, but there's one who seeks it and he is the judge, which we didn't talk about, but he's actually...

given judgment in that he's shining the light on their thought processes, which is making them very uncomfortable, especially when he's calling them children of the devil. There's another bigger narrative that y'all are missing, which is you're following the ways of the evil one who is confined to the earth and

And if you're in cahoots with him, it's not going to end well for you. Right. That was the implication. Which is why you can't see. So I think that's why that John includes this next story, which we'll go ahead and intro into this podcast and get into it more. Well, because I think it starts off with a theological argument. Right. Which, I mean, I don't know why this is neglected so much in the religious world. I found very little on John 9.

Yeah. It makes them uncomfortable. Because look, I hate to say this, there's a lot of people that believe. Oh, they still believe this. They still believe this, which I was very uncomfortable for them. Exactly. So I realize we'll probably offend somebody along the way, but make sure you're on the right track.

side of what Jesus is. He really does debunk what a lot of people still believe. People think that if you're born with certain conditions that somehow or another there's some sin involved, either yours or somebody else's. And that is the question. But go ahead, Zach. Did you have something before we move on, Zach? Well, before we moved on, I was just going to make the case that, you know, Jace, you used a lot of language earlier about

the oneness that Christ is pointing to in John 8. With the Father. With the Father, yeah. Because I did that because I think when we get to John 14, people lose their minds. And he just said multiple occasions. We're one here. I know I'm a man.

Because they were like, well, you're just a man. He's like, oh, no, oh, no. He has said, I mean, I gave you what, eight examples? Yeah. Of him basically saying me and the Father are one. I am the human expression of the God of the universe.

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I think that oneness, another way of seeing that too is nearness. And it's the idea of being present. It's the idea of the language of I am. That's a present tense language, but it's also that God is with. He's here. You mentioned the verse that He'll make us home with us. So all the language here of what this is pointing to and the case that Jesus is ultimately unfolding in the book of John is,

is that He is going to be with His people. He is going to come near. Al, you mentioned the Holy Spirit coming to indwell us and all that, the ascension in the last podcast you talked about. All of that plays into this. And so I don't think it's like,

Just a weird coincidence that the place that Jesus is saying this is in the temple. Like that's the whole, he says all this in the temple. So that last little verse when it says they picked up, verse 59, so they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. The reason why he's saying this in the temple is because the temple is the centerpiece of the whole discussion, right?

And that matters to the kingdom because as Jesus' ministry unfolds, you're going to see He continues to come back to the temple. He continues to talk about the temple. He continues to interact with the temple because that temple structure that they put their hope in is not the real end temple of what God is accomplishing. We've said it again and again on this podcast.

Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit now. God, which means God lives in us, the ultimate presence. So that's that oneness. How can you be more one with God than the fact that God comes to live in us to your John 14 passage? I mean, that's the whole point of the coming of the Holy Spirit. You can't get closer than that. Well,

Well, that was exactly what I was trying to say. Because even in the John 14 passage, I was going to make the point that everyone knows this part of the verse where Jesus answered in verse 6. After he said, in my Father's house are many rooms. Everyone knows when he says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. But the next part, well, what's the next part? He then says, no one comes to the Father except through me. Yeah.

So he's basically saying, there's a God and you're looking at him. Yeah. Because then he says, if you really knew me, you would know my father as well. Right. So then he says, from now on, you do know him and have seen him. Right. That's what he's saying. There's a God and you're looking at him in human form. We're the same.

We're one. And I made that point in a previous podcast that all the world religions recognize some sort of quote-unquote higher power, but how you get to that higher power is what separates them. Yeah. Well, it makes you think, to go off my first, earlier I said, number one, Jesus reveals the character of God, obviously. But number two, he changes the way you're to study this Bible. Yeah.

Because it flows through Jesus. I mean, he's like, you're looking at the God of the universe right here. Which is why I preached a sermon on Joshua 3 and I saw Jesus all over. Well, exactly. I mean, if you detach that, you're going to get into, which is the lead into John 9, you get into a lot of arguments about,

That I don't think you're using the proper, I think your word for that would be hermeneutic, how to study the Bible, which kind of goes back to that John 5. He's like, you're studying these scriptures and you think by them you'll

you'll receive eternal life. Every religious person believes that. Then he's like saying that's a bad thing. He's like, yet you refuse. Your hermeneutics wrong. Yeah, he's like, yet you refuse to come to me and have eternal life. So I always cringe when people say that. They're like, hey, the Bible is the inherent word of God, and we got to figure it all out. And I'm waiting for the Jesus part.

I'm like, because of John 5. Right. I'm like, that has to be there because that's what he said. It's a different way to study the scriptures. Yeah. It's John 5. It will forever be there. I'm not sure what people do with that. It's very powerful. So before I read the text, this is the very first verse. As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. So I did a little bit of one of Jace's rabbit holes because I thought, blindness, what causes blindness? So I just...

you know, Googled or searched for what are the leading causes of blindness? Because Zach, you have a blind aunt, is that not? I do, yeah. She's totally blind. Was she born blind? My dad's sister. She was. Okay. So you actually have someone in your family that's experienced this. And so I looked this up. I found this fascinating for a couple of reasons. One, so cataracts are the number one leading cause of blindness.

which is a clouding of the eye lens, worsens over time, and it has to be removed. That's over half of all blindness is caused by cataracts, usually in older people, but some can be born with it. Second was glaucoma.

which is an optic nerve damage from rising pressure in the eyes called the sneak thief of sight, which I thought was interesting, Jace, because typically people who get glaucoma don't know they have it until it's too late, and then they got problems.

The other one is age-related macular degeneration, which is a long definition, but when you hear age-related, it lets you know it's because you get older, right? And then there's a couple that are mostly in children that we would call lazy eye or cross-eyed, and it's a lack of coordination between your brain and your eye.

The last one was called diabetic retinopathy, which is related to your blood sugar, blood pressure, and cholesterol. So I thought it was interesting. Out of six, seven different causes of blindness around the world, none of them are anything that you had anything to do with. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You just, you got it. You had it. It developed. It developed.

You got older. Only one that you could be somewhat linked to is you had a played a part in was the diabetic part because you, you know, you maybe do things to drive up your blood pressure, whatever. So out of this theory, I mean, that comes out of this teaching, which is you, you somehow your actions determine this. And that was the question, which, which look runs deep in our family. Yeah. Because, uh,

If anything happened bad, I mean, my dad has been in the ground for two weeks, but up until two weeks ago, if anything happens, that was bad. The first thing my dad would do before anything, before you literally get the vitals of a loved family member is,

We got to figure out why this happened. Why did it happen? Why were you there? The blame must be assessed. One of my favorite new partners, Jace, is our own One Kingdom. It's the global ministry of our church at White's Ferry Road. I serve on the board of One Kingdom and have been for many, many years. We've done several events.

mission trips together, Jays, on behalf of One Kingdom. You went to Ukraine many, many, many years ago. Yeah, I went to Greece with a One Kingdom trip. It locks into local people, local communities, local church. So we do kingdom work. We do mission work. We also do relief work all around the world. And that's what One Kingdom is all about.

Share Jesus, speak Jesus, show Jesus. The Relief Work started back in 1981, continues to be done to this very day. One Kingdom has over 100 mission partners in over 40 countries around the world. It began as World Radio, as I said, in 1963. Now it's switched to One Kingdom because there's so many more resources, YouTube, podcasts, social media technology that allows us to get the gospel out.

Dad has said for many years, the Apostle Paul would have used the internet to get the gospel out. That's what One Kingdom does. So if you're ready to help us share the gospel, you may do it a little bit differently. We gathered around a table and ate fish down on the river and led people to Jesus. People do it in their communities different ways. We want you to join us. Go to onekingdom.org to donate today. 100% of the donations go to actual work and not overhead. That's

O-N-E kingdom.org. One kingdom.org. Check it out. I told this story many times. I had a wreck. My truck spun eight times. I mean, a vehicle carrying a one-ton trailer load full of something. I mean, hit me. T-boned. Going 55 or 60 miles an hour. Yeah. And I spent eight times. Didn't have my seatbelt on, interesting enough.

And slam into a light pole. And literally just the truck became a tin can. And I had a few injuries. But overall, considering what happened, no broken bones. Well, even before that, Jay, as fate would have it,

It was because you went to the school of preaching. We were in school of preaching at the time. And I had just bought brand new tires. I literally came from the tire place with four new tires. And you went that day. Normally, Jace and I would ride together every day to school. But I had to get some tires. And I would drive, and Jace was in the passenger seat. But I was sick that day and didn't go to school. I don't know if you remember that part. I don't know that. So you were driving and went to get the tires. But if it had been a normal day, then you would have been killed on impact.

Oh, yeah. Because it would have hit your side of the truck. Because I always drove the truck. And so, you know...

I've told the story before. I thought I didn't make it. I thought I went to hell because when I woke up. Jace literally bounced. He doesn't remember this, but a witness saw him. He bounced from one side of the other, went out, halfway out the passenger window and back in. Yeah, I went outside the truck and waved, came back in. So I'm unconscious. Hey. I come to and there's a face that the way the light was, and I guess in my current condition,

You know, I was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And there was a guy who we had baptized years before who had either it didn't take or fell away. I knew that. And he was the first face I saw. And I thought, oh, no, I didn't make it.

So I thought that I apologized to him later. But it was a catalyst to him getting back right with the Lord. So there was a happy ending there. So then I went back out. And so then I came to again and my dad was standing over me and there was an ambulance behind him.

And he said, here was his words, why would a man pull out in front of a vehicle on a major highway and think that was a good idea? Compassion. As your eyes are rolling around in your head, what was your answer?

I said, I think you better get me in an ambulance. Because there was blood everywhere. And I'll say this about our crossed-over dad. The more frightened he was...

About a situation. The more blame the assessment came because he was frightened. In the moment, it scared him so bad. It was like, why would you bring all this pain and misery on yourself? You made a mistake. Obviously, I made a mistake somewhere along the line, but it just wasn't the right appropriate time to be breaking down what caused this. But every time I read their story, I think about that story because I thought –

His disciples, they came by. As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, which is just not appropriate. Let's help him.

What about this guy? You came to save the world. Look at that poor guy. Look at this poor guy. This is terrible. It's a philosophical question. This helps me. Who sinned? Who sinned? I mean, they bring up sin. Yeah. That this man or his parents, that he was born blind. I just think as you were saying that, I'm thinking...

Like that story about Phil. But isn't that like part of our family dynamic is the first thing you do is to assess blame? I have to fight it to this day. I mean, it's like... Me too, but I have been brainwashed as a child that that is what you do. I mean, we are... It is like that. I mean, like it's like the... If somebody gets sick...

Then the first, then you got to find who was patient zero. Like find out who that person is. But it is a little bit of an insulation thing. And it was with dad because I don't want to feel anything. So the first, if we assess blame, it's,

I can all of a sudden say, well, let's get some help to the situation. I think it's some kind of weird excuse. I told you I was going to make religious people mad doing this. Look, it's the same thing David did, I believe, in, was it Psalm 51? Yeah. He just had an affair. He killed a guy. Yeah. He's then praying to God that's inspiring

by his words and he drops a line in that feeds what I think is a wrong view of this situation. I know where you're headed. He says, surely I was sinful at birth. I mean, he's so...

that he has committed these sins and he's praying to God. It's an extremely hyperbolic statement. What he's saying is hyperbolically, surely I had to be sinful in the womb. Somebody somewhere before I even came out.

And I read that thinking he's so distraught that he's like, how can I be that bad? I mean, how could I have done it? Well, I must have been sinful at birth. And so somebody reads John 9, they read Psalm 51 and say, yeah, there's something. Because we want to blame people. We want to do that. Other than, yeah, exactly. And I said, our family does that. And you guys are really good at teaching others to do that. When we stayed at your house, Al...

I guess your grandson-in-law, the water went out. Like the water just went out of your house because there was some kind of like leak with the sprinkler system. It turns out it was a leak in the sprinkler system. But I'm telling you for about...

an hour, it was, the whole focus on what did my kids do, they tore something up and your grandson-in-law, I mean, the call I got was, hey, the dashers are at your house and guess what? Now there's no water. Yeah.

That was the way it was presented to me. It's our fault. We did it. In other words, you've let these people stay here, and now you have no water. So deal with that. And then you couple that with Jace's accusation of what they did at his house with the trash and the pool and all that. My wife, because I have a washout problem, and I'm having to build a retaining wall so my whole backyard doesn't slide off.

Into the lake. Into the lake, yeah, because Willie convinced me to buy that house. And my first question was, I said, I'm not much on buying a house at the bottom of a hill.

I mean, I was thinking the don't build your house upon the sandy land. And her dad had been there during that conversation. He said, why would a man buy a house at the bottom of hell? Well, let me sing the second stanza of that verse. Or too near the shore. It might be kind of nice, but you might have to build it twice. You better build your house upon the...

But I did it. And guess what? My house and the yard is literally washing off into the pond. Jesus was right, by the way. And so I'm like, we might ought to get a retaining wall because this wall is... But I thought it was interesting that Missy somehow worked your kids into the current problem because they were the last people in the backyard because we noticed a big hole by the wall as we're, you know, have the workers putting the retaining wall. They're like...

It's already started washing out. She's like, well, those doggone kids of the Dashers were here. Because she was thinking they got a water hose and tried to help. Zach, your name now has become a verb. Oh, you've been Dasher. That's why, honestly, Jill said, hey, we go get a hotel, get an Airbnb. You can't do it because if you don't come stay with us, we don't have stories to tell on the podcast.

I know we're out of time, but I just want to say that he, the reason I think this story is in this place is because he, he just went meta narrative with, with, with the group that he was just having an argument with. And that, cause they were trying to kill him. Right. And he was like, your father's the devil. And I think he starts looking at these big pictures and this is one of them. So we, I hope you'll bring an open mind here. Um,

Because Jesus, obviously, his response is he didn't really answer the question the way they wanted it. Just please tell us who sinned here. And he said this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life, which I think is the whole key to understanding. So let me give you, those of you that keep up with us and come all the way through, here's your assignment before our next podcast. Go back and read the book of Job. It's 42 chapters. It'll probably take you about 30, 40 minutes, maybe an hour to read it.

And you'll see where this idea is a very ancient book with this ancient narrative of divine retribution. That's what it's called is all throughout that book. So read Job and then that'll set you up for when we get back to this discussion on the next podcast.

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.