Ep 893 | Jase’s Dumb ‘Dating Ministry’ Idea Led Him to Missy & Willie Made a Kid Cry on the Bus
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We have made a programming. We switched gears. I'm back, baby. Well, I thought you had to be somewhere, so I never asked you about maybe doing a second podcast, but you did earlier. You were going to be on earlier this week. You had something else you had to do. You had to leave. So Maddie is like...

She's texting me while you're talking. She said, see if Willie can stay. This is so good. So Matt, because of Maddie, you made it work. Well, it's a good book. And we were just getting into it. I felt like I was rushing. Cause I was like, Oh, I didn't say half the stuff that I, that I normally say or wanted to say. I felt like you wrote this over a long period of time. Cause it was, I think you made a reference to your birthday.

It was maybe a couple of years ago, and I thought, he must have been working on this book a while. Well, because you kind of, like you said, you're working away just to help people share, and then that grew into the book. I wanted to ask you this. I was like, it was your birthday. Was that a couple of years ago? Technically, I've had one every year. Every year? Every year, I have a birthday. I just had one last year. Oh, by the way, Willie, so I shared your text on the podcast. You said you were 50.

Oh, that's a specific birthday. And I just turned 52. So yeah, I've been writing this. It's been about three years I've been working on it slash writing. It's like everything else you do. You were engaged in teaching this class.

And like sharing that with people. And that's usually where our best ideas come from. Like you mentioned about cooking, it's the practicality of doing it. And then all of a sudden you're like, man, I want more people to know how to do this. And so that's- Being out around people. Yeah, it's in the world. And when you're around people and so you're getting that, you know, you can-

Yeah, I had like the data that I was trying to get and their perceptions of people and what they thought. I had it every week. I had Gordon, which fitted perfectly with that book. When I read through pretty quick, I read Willie's book. The one we're talking about, when you get right down to it, you say, who are you when you're preaching the gospel? You're known to be doing it.

The one you're talking about. Jesus is all the following. The creator of everything. Sinless. Never made a mistake. Miracle worker. Alpha Omega. Omniscient.

omnipresent, omnipotent, the way, the truth, the life, the resurrection, the redeemer for everyone, king over heaven and earth, indestructible, prophet, mind reader, lawgiver. It's a list of the one you are talking. So when somebody says, well, why would you get into that? You're explaining one section at a time.

that the one who died was buried the man of mystery the great mediator of the saints the greatest defense attorney of all time consequence conqueror of death full of grace full of mercy

greatest teacher, bread of life, greatest healer, reconciler. And look, that wasn't all of them. Yeah, but I think... I just told Zach's dad, I said, just put some of these in there, the ones we're talking about. And you begin to say, good night of living. I mean, what a...

What a story that that is. Well, I think those are... Well, he did just perfect. Those characteristics are things you can have conversations about, to Willie's point. Yep. It was an unusual book because it's... I mean, a lot of what I do and have done since I was a teenager is very similar to what you wrote about. You know, it's like...

It's that way with everybody, Jase. Well, and I think, you know, I study in Acts, my whole point. Remember the, we had a podcast a few times ago when I read all the times that they said in the name of Jesus, whatever they did in the name, it's over and over and over. And I made a point to Willie's point. And I think this book goes right in with this.

That when Jesus was exalted at the right hand of God as king, and we're part of his kingdom where he reigns, and he pours out his spirit in us, which is what he predicted in John 14, 15, and 16 through the Holy Spirit, we then make Jesus known in what we say. That's why they kept saying, in the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus, because they were like, well, who are you?

Who are you to say this? This is contrary to what we believe in our tradition. In the name of Jesus. And they were making Jesus known. That's why when you look at what Jesus' character was, it was filled with daily conversations with people. Yes, he spoke a lot of times, but in between, it never stopped. Well, that was something I looked at at an early age,

Because my biggest problem in life was being bold, just in everything. I was real quiet when I was a kid. And the more I would study, I just kept thinking I have all these buddies in high school that are just hellions, but they hunt and they fish and they're my buddies.

But I was so cowardly about my faith for the first two years. But the more I read about how Jesus operated, it just hit me one day. I'm not going to be able to be quiet about this. I'm supposed to be here to make Jesus known. I was the same way. I have his spirit. I was the same way. It was like a light bulb moment. And I guess, you know, I think it's good that Willie wrote this book because he

A lot of times I'm negative about people, you know, just thinking they got this temple type religion that all the followers of Jesus were vehemently opposed of. How many times does it say in the book of Acts, God doesn't live in buildings and temples and they're going round and round. And I'm like, we need to take it out of the building. But this is a good way to do that because it is through daily normal conversations that

That you have moments. You don't have to get weird. You don't have to get weird. I mean, you may be weird by some standard, but...

When you care about people, you don't have to be weird. I sent Phil the book. Actually, I printed it off. This was way before. This was last year because I just wanted him to read it and get what he thought. So Phil calls and he says, that was the best explanation of how to share the gospel I've ever read. And this is what was funny because of Phil, how he does it sometimes. He goes, and you were so nice about it.

So that was a little difference. And I wanted to speak to what Phil said when he was reading the list because I thought about this.

When you're talking to someone, Jesus is referenced as the great counselor. And I feel like sometimes a counselor, you know, I'm meeting with someone about their life. You feel almost like a marriage counselor or a counselor. Jesus is called the great physician. And so I liken this to a doctor where it's like, you know. They're giving you the symptoms of their life. Yeah, it's like they're, you know, and you think about a doctor. And I think about this with gospel. Like we've been talking about.

deep dives into the scripture. Think about a medical doctor. He goes to school for years and years and years. He knows everything, you know, all these long technical terms. We're talking about this religious speak. He knows all the big words. Um,

Then when he's put with real people, okay, so he's got old Jimmy and Donna sitting in front. Jimmy's got a bad diagnosis. Well, he sits down and he realized, I can't tell Jimmy, you know, here's the name of it. Here's where it comes from. Here's, you know, basically it comes down to this. Jimmy, you got a problem?

I got a solution. Are you willing to try it? And that's pretty much it. Now, once Jimmy says, let's go, I'm in, he doesn't know hardly anything about it. I think about my father-in-law had colorectal cancer. When he got the diagnosis, he knew very little about it. Within a year, he knew more about it than I thought anybody could know. Then he's studying, then he's pouring in.

two years now he knows tons of other people who have had the same diagnosis what they have you know and so i feel like that is a lot of gospel or it's where it's the front lines it's the problem here's the solution it's not all the answers it's but it's crossing over that line of faith it's crossing over and then once they come in then we start a whole the church comes in then there's so much more to learn this is this is specific because you mentioned uh

I think in the last hour, Al, that it's not like this is the only thing. It's the only thing, but we have to have those frontline people. At some point, you have to be able to share that, get that to people. These conversations we mentioned, Phil, like somebody had to share. We read the scriptures.

How can they believe unless someone tells them? Someone has to tell people to be able to know this. And so it's really that front line's work of what that is. And so I think about that. And then I think about Jace's where like,

We have the Spirit of God living in us. So that's what's going to come out. So if you're sitting there thinking, well, there's no way. I'm just not like that. Well, guess what? You have a Spirit in you that can do things that you never thought was even possible. You know, Peter gets up in Acts chapter 2 full of the Spirit. Right. You know, and boom, we see this is the same guy, which I wanted to comment on.

which was part of the broke propeller chapter, which was Peter, that always fascinates me by the fact that just a few chapters before, Peter denies knowing Jesus. And that's at the end of the Gospels. Jesus comes back, gives him a pep talk on the way out. And then Acts chapter 1, lo and behold, who's up organizing the group trying to replace Judas? Peter.

And no one questioned him. No one said, well, who made you the, you're the one who just screwed up. You're out, you know? And Peter didn't go. Now, I do think he was back at that, back at the Sea of Galilee. I think he was done. I think he was going to hang out there. He was like, I blew it. Right.

Jesus said, no, no, no. I have a job for you. Peter gets up there. Peter gets up Acts chapter two. Peter preaches the gospel. And at the end, these are these conversations that are looking for change. This is why I never feel bad about, even though it may be uncomfortable to look for that change.

In Acts chapter two, Peter says after the gospel, after the response, with many other words, he warned and pleaded with him, save yourself from this corrupt generation. So it's okay to, you know, to, to, to warn and plead people. Look, if you keep living your life like this, you are headed to destruction and that's okay. And I think, I think in America we're like, Oh, easy now, you know, don't, don't, don't go too strong. I mean, I think we can really encourage that because I see Peter doing as well. No. And, and,

Good point.

and reinstated him. And so I thought, man, what a great sermon. Can you wait three days? Because a lot of times we get so impatient thinking our lives are too bad. We've done too much stuff, whatever. But man, there may be just that third day. You're just waiting on the next thing to happen. Well, another story that came to mind when I read that was the first time Jesus did the miraculous catch, you know, Peter fell down.

and say go away from me i'm a sinful man then he mirrors the same miracle post-resurrection and that time he jumped out of the boat and ran on water you know theoretically yeah he had a different response that was post-resurrection but it showed you how far he had come in his faith where when he realized the first time that he's god he looked into his life and thought well i'm

i'm out on this i'm too bad but he then realized you know the grace of jesus and the power with the resurrection and he had a totally different response it's the it's a really interesting

because it's the same miracle at two different points in time, and you get two different responses from the same man. But it's also why this is so important to be a gospel, as well as a lot of other things you can do in the church, because a lot of people can miss Jesus even on their way in, because they think it has to do with church stuff, or like you said, they're like, well, I need to read the Bible more. So they think of all those things. Remember, the people that surrounded Jesus in his day, they were missing him.

I mean, they were like, yeah, they were Jews. They knew a lot of good stuff. They were like in the system, but they missed the Messiah and you can't miss him, which is the whole key. If you really enjoy what we're doing here on Unashamed, I really want to encourage you to head over to blazetv.com today.

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Well, I want to ask you that this was really good. So you start the book on page one, which is Swamp Dweller. And like you said, every chapter ends with Godspeller, and they all end with like a L-E-R, which is creative. And it says, and this I found fascinating, in 2022, a survey from Ancestry.com revealed that more than half of Americans, that's half our country, can't tell you the names of all four of their grandparents.

which I was fascinated by that. And you said, yeah, I say grandparents, just two generations back, that shows me that most people have very little connection to their heritage and really understanding that and knowing that. So I got to thinking about it. I said, okay, I mean, I'm kind of the family historian. Do I know the names of my grandparents? Do you know the names of all four of your grandparents, Jay? No. No.

Do you, Will? I was hoping Phil would go first because I figured it'd be easier. Well, I know. Because he could throw his parents' names out. I know Phil's parents, but on our mom's side. Okay. I think I can. I wouldn't know her parents' names. Willie Ezell. Willie Ezell. Because you're named after him. But you knew it. I mean, I knew it once I read it in the book, but I didn't know it before that moment.

Remember the mom? Mom's name was... We called her Banny. Called her Banny. Not her Banny, but her... Nita. Juanita. Juanita. And Willie. Juanita. I don't know Juan... I don't know her middle name. I didn't either. Oh, I don't know it. I didn't either. Bill, do you know your mother-in-law's whole name? No. No.

So tell them your point, though, Willie. What was your point? What I just thought was fascinating because even with us. The point is we don't even know. Like, I even ride the boat that you could have a room this size full of people. You walk in, you're like, hey, you're chit-chatting, talking. Some of them you'd probably determine you don't even like. You're like, man, these people. They could all be your direct ancestors. You wouldn't know who they were. Exactly. Which is a huge point. Wouldn't that be strange? And I even thought about Mamaw Hale. Do you know her name, who was Granny's mother?

That was your grandmother. Just call her Mamaw. You don't know her name, do you? No. And I don't either. I just know Mamaw Hale. So it's really interesting to your point was so true. And that's even with us who have this heritage that we're very proud of inside of our family. And yet we don't even remember their name. I just thought it was fascinating. Just go back. You can go back to the...

1800s, 1700s, and just think about the people. The grandfathers. That if they don't do what they do, you're not... He's not here. We're not here. You know, you're starting... And the idea of sharing the gospel and having that gospel genealogy was that. Like, do you realize, like...

If you could go back to like 1750 and you're like in the moment, they were like two people deciding whether or not they're going to get together. Maybe the parents are saying no. And you're sitting there where you're sitting now going, oh, please. Oh, please don't, you know.

make this connection or I don't exist. You know, that whole thing is gone. And I think that's conversations. And, and the book is highlighted with the ones that worked. And, but man, I think about the ones I missed. I'm like, ah, I was right there that day. You were talking about wait three days. There's people that,

I wish I could go back and talk to that aren't here. They had all died. He passed away and I didn't get a chance. All the ones, the greats, all the greats had died and moved on. Well, my grandmother, daddy, my daddy's mom got run over by a vehicle and she died.

But that was just, I was just a kid. Right. And everybody on the male side, that all passed on. Well, and the reason, Dad, that I remembered Ruth and Ewan, which was his parents. It's Ewan. And the reason I knew about Judge Jephthah, which was then Ewan's dad, so that was Judge Jephthah. This guy lived in the 1800s. The only reason I knew those names was...

is because I would sit and listen to granny tell me stories about it. To your point. Same way with me. Yeah, so the stories are what drive what's important and what you know from your history and your family's history. But if you never tell them those stories, then you lose them, which is what's happened here. Even in the same family.

You knew those? I didn't even know that. I never knew Ewing or Judge Jephthah. I didn't know that. So looking back 100 years now, you'd say, oh, well, Al mentioned that. So obviously, Jace knew, Willie. No, I didn't know that. And that's in the same family, which think about the gospel. It's the same way. We just assume people are going to pick this up. You may assume your kids are going to pick it up and

They may not. That was the powerful point. It's like you tell different stories that I had forgotten that I would have never remembered that are not read. Right. But you gave illustration about all the ski boats coming down the river. I mean, when I think back on it, yep, that was a big deal. Oh, y'all would have to, yeah. Remember that, like, we could hear them coming. And when they would turn in that creek, oh, that was such a vivid memory and just boom. Remember they would knock them propellers off and start the mouth of Cypress.

And we would just laugh. And it's a certain sound. It's wah-ing. Then it's over. And a lot of them lost their lower units out there. But I do say that it does show you God works in among that, too. You know, when we just finished Act 17, we didn't really finish it. We gave a thumbnail of it. But when he says, from one man, God, he was explaining the unknown God.

From one man, he made every nation of men that they should inhabit the whole earth. And he determined the time set for them in the exact places where they should live. So I do think God works in that somehow. That means something to where...

He calls people through the gospel, but it's through spirit-filled people at certain times, and he does raise up leaders to carry the torch. And I think when you combine your family's history with the idea that God works and lives, like he says, in him we move and have our being. I mean, it makes me always feel like this is bigger than we think. I mean, there is a God, and...

Our lives are testifying to that. And it's the conversations you have. And you would have these naturally if you went to a family reunion and you were just sitting around and you're eating food and you're talking about, well, what about old so-and-so? And somebody brings somebody up and then you start asking questions. All of a sudden you're learning all this history, which that's what I took out of that first chapter, is then you think about how we do that in a spiritual context of how Christ has impacted me.

Or how he's impacted somebody else or how that can change your life. And all of a sudden, some people are part of the conversations. Yeah, yeah, this is great. I love it. And this guy sitting over here, he doesn't even know who Jesus is. So for him, this is the first time he's even hearing the possibility about salvation. And that's the hope. And that's the hope that Phil had, you know, that when the marriage was over, it was really the last ditch ever. That was the only thing that was going to give hope.

That whole thing, any hope whatsoever. And we had no idea as little kids, we had no idea the impact that that was going to have on our lives. In fact, because, well, Jason's in the same boat. I'm in the same boat. Like we, I met Corey at Camp Chioka. That was part of the fruit.

The church camp, the youth group, all that was part of the fruit of turning their lives around and getting around a group of believers. If that doesn't happen, I'm not at that church camp. I have no idea. I've been telling this for a couple of years now, but it's... And everybody I'm talking to literally has been impacted by it because we're talking about it in the context of

how our lives have been. So it's just more, you just keep adding on more people that are influenced by it over and over. It's just, it's, it's, it's crazy to think about a little bit about that. Both y'all, because we've talked about some on the podcast, but you told a couple of stories in there about when you were teenagers, because, you know, obviously our family's life had changed and then we were down here on the river, but we're kind of isolated out here. But, but both of you guys were both very active and,

In the youth group, but you were outside of just that it had to be youth group because you were sharing with a lot of people that you were just interacting. We were all in public high school, so we didn't go to Christian school at that point. We didn't have any money to go to Christian school. There wasn't a lot of Jesus-loving people there. No. So what was that like? I mean, just from a standpoint, it's obviously been a part of your lives the whole time, but teenagers mostly see themselves as like, man, there's no way I would like –

Like that to them seems like the most frightening thing ever to try to share Jesus with somebody at that level. I thought it was the best. One of the best parts of my life was looking at where I'm at now because I had so much less, um,

baggage or stress or distractions. You're just teenagers, you don't have much going on. So it was, once I got locked down that, and that's where I think the church, the church can be so powerful in discipleship. Because then it wasn't just Phil. And in fact, at that point, Phil wasn't like, we were sitting down every day having a chit chat, dad,

was preaching to people and that's where Mike Kelly, you know, Mike Kelly was our youth director. And he really encouraged that as far as sharing your faith, evangelism. He talked about it every week to us and really gave us, and I learned a thing there about empowerment. Like he empowered us to go and do it. It wasn't like bring them to me and I'll tell you how to do this. I mean, he just said, get out there and get after it. And

So we were doing that. And so once, once that picked up momentum, like Phil was saying earlier, just, it starts spreading and, you know, and then it gets like, you just can't wait to talk to the next person. And that was a lot of the experience was gathering right there. I remember the first guy that I talked to, the foreign exchange student from Germany, and he didn't believe in God. I, I, I'd never met anybody who didn't believe in God. I didn't even, and I had no idea what to say. I was like,

What do you say about, well, read this verse. I don't believe it. I was like, what are you supposed to say to somebody like that? So it was all part of that early experience of, and I talked about Keith, uh, Keith on the school bus, uh, Keith Calhoun. I need to go see him. He's a doctor. Um,

I was just wearing him out, you know, like, cause he didn't know the answers and I was being so mean and ugly to him. And, and, but just, you know, it's just like, and I'm just, wow, wow. And he starts crying. I'm just keep on even more, you know? So,

Part of that early experience of trying to share your faith. And that was important too, without being obnoxious, because I know people today who are so obnoxious, I wouldn't listen to anything they say, you know, and they're obnoxious with the gospel and they're not, you know, and so it's learning that, you know,

snakes and doves and you know how to explain stuff to people not arguing with people and really wanting and caring about them and saying i you know your life needs to change for christ he can provide that and if you don't you don't but like at least you're planting that seed well my experience was similar but so when i made this change at like 16 to start sharing jesus with my friends which it wasn't like i immediately i made a list but you know i just i

And it was a big list. And I basically had titled people I want to spend eternity with as my friends. And so I just started one by one picking them off. But it wasn't going well because, number one, I was really nervous and intimidated. And they would just be like, what are you, crazy?

What do you, you know? No. I mean, I go to church. That was kind of the thing, but I'm looking at their lives. But I started then. But what it led to two different things that I wanted to mention when you asked me about that. One is as I got further along, even without any responses.

We started going to WFR. Well, I get up there and there's 100 people in the youth group. So it was kind of like, well, this is awesome. Here's a bunch of other people that love Jesus, which I quickly realized that not all in that 100, they were just showing up at church.

But one night, because I was really getting stressed out because the more I shared Jesus, the more I was being alienated at school. They thought something, this screw's going loose. So one night after a teen church, Mike, that we sang, we were at, well, your in-law's house. And there was 75 kids there probably. And so after Mike gave his little sermon, I raised my hand. I said, I got something to say.

I said, I've recently, and I was nervous. It's probably the first time I spoke up in a public setting. I said, I'm sharing Jesus with my friends and it's not going well. But if there's anybody that would like to join me, because I was thinking deep down, I need some help here. I feel I was feeling real alone. And I said, y'all meet me out here at the basketball goal. And I

And we'll talk about what we can do. And I think there was eight people that showed up. And one of them was your wife, which was bizarre, you know, as I think about it now, because I didn't know her that well.

And we just really had a conversation about really what you wrote in this book, having conversations with our friends. So that was the first point I was going to say. And it made me think like a lot of people, they'll say, we need to share Jesus. So let's have a small group ministry. And what happened was we started sharing Jesus and the small group ministry just developed as a result. Because once they started responding, we would get together because you realize it wasn't just getting them in.

Then it was trying to, you know, get them to grow and life changing parts. Yeah, that became consuming. But the other conversation I want to bring up is how I met my wife was one of these conversations that you described because I had this stupid idea. I was a teenager. Look, this I'm going to tell you this idea. You're going to say that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

But I had had about three or four dating relationships in a row that went woefully wrong. And mainly because... Including getting you beat up. Well, I got beat up, but there was another girl. At the first date, she started unbuttoning her shirt. As soon as we got in, she started unbuttoning her shirt. I was like, what are you doing? She's like, well, are we going to have sex or what? I said, no. So that end, she got out and left. That was all. There was no Jesus conversation. She just, she left.

So I thought, I got an idea. I'm going to start a dating ministry. I'm going to take the girl out, give them a speech. As soon as she gets in the car, that way that'll stop this. And...

Then I'll just move on to the next one, but I'll share Jesus with them. So instead of convert them or cull them, you would convert them and cull them. Either way, they're culled. I'm moving on to the next girl. So the first time I did that, it went woefully wrong because this girl became like a stalker. And she was wanting to respond to Jesus, but it just started getting weird.

And I thought, are you after me or are you after Jesus? And she's like, well, let's do both. I said, that's not an option. Well, you did call it a dating ministry. It was everything but the dating part. Most people don't start with the date. So then it leads to me getting...

So what I've said is that's all funny, ha-ha, stupid. However, I decided to change my approach. And so when Missy got in the car, I said, look. So she was at the tail end of your. She was at the tail end. And so I basically just said, look, I like you. We're going to go out on a date, but I just wanted to let you know.

that I love Jesus more than anything. It's who I am. And if I ever try to do anything or say anything that doesn't act in line with that, you let me know. Well, her response is really why we ultimately got married, because she said, well, you're the kind of guy I'm looking for, which I was shocked.

Because that was the first good response I had to that. And, you know, I just think the Lord worked that out because we got started off right on the right. Just one little speech in the car. And our relationship was pure until we got married. We talked about, you know, how to share Jesus. Now you have children who've...

Preach Jesus. Oh, absolutely. Thank the Lord for that, which it was a bumpy process, like all of you know. But still, I mean, I just look back on that. It gets back to having the courage to have these conversations, which is, like I said, not necessarily popular because there was a two-year period in my life where I was really lonely and felt alienated because of my faith. Looking at our current culture, you did well.

I love, Jace, that I've never heard that story about the little group because you were feeling isolated that they rallied around you and that Corey was a part of it. It was even more amazing. But you said it well, the word. Because there's a lot of people that listen to our podcast that

that are engaged with young people, especially. That's why I wanted to talk about this. And they're like, what do we do to try to motivate? But you said the word is empower. Because the power is in Jesus and the gospel. It's not in you anyway. But if you can empower them to feel like you did, like I'm supported in just sharing what Jesus has done for me. I mean, that's all the difference for any of us. Well, yeah. And a lot of people say, well, only seven or eight came. But I looked at that like, man.

Yeah, that was huge. Awesome. You would have been happy if one person had said it. I got seven or eight people who said, you know what? We've had enough at our high school. And really, it was somewhat about us. We were tired of feeling cowardly about...

The message of Jesus. We have the greatest message in the world, and let's quit getting bullied about it. And Corey didn't even go to your high school. She didn't even go, but she's like, I'm in, which showed me she was a person of good character and a heart for sharing Jesus, you know? No, that's really good. I'm just glad she didn't get in your dating ministry. I'm glad she wasn't the...

Man. In the line. This is not core. I almost sucked up in Jason's weird dating ministry where they're like, I thought we were going out. No, I got you here to preach to you and then call you and get you out of here. I can't wait to tell Lisa. Well, I did baptize the stalker at some point. And so, you know, it was a happy ending there. That worked out. But because I just finally did it. But I was like, I'm not. Look, I love that you love Jesus, but I got.

I got other things to do. Me and you, it's not going to work. And she got over it, got past it. Well, I think the empowerment, Al, is really what the book's about. Y'all had people going out ahead of you saying,

weed this person out. They're dating my daughter. Weed them out. You don't need them. Yeah. Well, we were all rejected by our in-laws initially. I think we were. But it all worked out. I think the church is in sort of an indirect way and not probably on purpose, but they...

we lack there, you know, we lack with empowering people. And one of the problems is because we, we, we try to do everything for everyone. So, you know, we're, we're like, we got it all planned out. We just show up, sit here and then, you know, move on. And so there's not a lot of opportunity or empowerment for people, even a teaching, you know, um,

Things that used to happen a lot, I see that as just shrinking away. We have less generational teachers. Well, I've looked at your children and you did well. You and Jace both.

You too, Al. Yeah, I mean, that's what you hope. But look, you have to empower your kids to live. If you try to do everything for your kids their whole life, they're not going to flourish either. It's the same way. It's the same. It's the same way. And I think we've got to empower people to do that. And you try to do that with your kids. And I think if you want your kids, which I'll give this shout out to Phil, if you want your kids to be active in sharing their faith,

You need to be sharing your faith. Like that's the number one thing that they're going to watch. They're going to, they're going to oftentimes do what you do, you know, good and bad. Well, you got to be authentic. I mean, one of the profound chapters, which, um,

You were very vulnerable and humble and sharing your weaknesses. And I think you even described it at the bottom of your barrel. But it was during that time of Duck Dynasty when everything went crazy. And a lot of it I wasn't even aware of until I read the book. I felt kind of bad because I was like, well, dang, you should have come across the street, you know, and let's talk. But I realize it's hard for people to.

understand all of a sudden here's back with people back from the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden i think you termed it a skyrocketing success and everywhere you go you're being push pulled and everybody's trying to survive this because it is like a tsunami that that hits you and you're just hanging on for dear life but i think that authenticity and sincerity is

really resonates with our kids and being honest about it. Because a lot of people struggle with the idea of, I can't share my faith because I've done...

these bad things or i'm too bad or who would listen to him or i'm not qualified or and you look at all these guys of paul and peter in the bible and you're like well that can't be true right you know well and i think peter's the different one because he was with jesus and so i think it's easier for like paul we're like well he didn't know you know he didn't know and then once he knew he knew and so but i think uh for most of the church the problem is they're like

Well, I'm a Christian. I was a Christian. I did believe in Jesus. And so we don't, you know, and that's part of this, which is part of why I put in the book. It's part of the, the,

the new Testament plan, which is when you confess your sins one to another, you're saved. I mean, that's a clear, you know, this is part of it, you know, and once it's out, it's out and it's like, Hey, this is out there and this is where I was. And so that's part of the beauty of, of the plan. Yeah. And it also shows you well, the beauty of a story that continues to be written. And I was touched too by that chapter when you described that, because sometimes we do walk through, um,

And it could be some, you know, it could be a sin problem, but it could be a disease. It could be a lot of stuff that you're faced with. You have to deal with. And you can't. You want to help people, and you do. You share and encourage. But sometimes you just got to go through some stuff for Jesus to have that real impact into your life. I remember when you said that about, you know, wishing you'd had a conversation, Lisa and I,

We're in ministry and I was preaching at our church. And I mean, we had just fallen into some difficult financial times and we went bankrupt. And I remember Willie was like, well, why don't you come talk to me? You know, we could have tried to do something. And I was like, well, well, because sometimes you just got to, you made a mess and you got to just, you and the Lord got to work through it. And we did. And we're so much better for having done that. And it humbled us because I had to sit down with every one of our leaders and say, well,

We're going bankrupt and here's why. And you're talking about a humbling thing to have to do that. But it taught me a lot about honesty, about how to handle money. It taught me a lot of different things that I had to learn. And nobody could help me with that other than me just going through that. And so I thought about that when I read that chapter. And that's helped you.

Well, to be able to now, just as a speller, to be able to share that with people. And it doesn't matter that you had a TV show or anything else. This is just a passion of what you've realized and what Christ has done in you. On this side of it, you're appreciative of it because, man, it creates a lot of empathy. I can tell you that. That's right. It's hard to be arrogant, you know, because when you realize you, you know.

That you're, you know, that you're really struggling. And especially, I think with Doug Dynasty, it's in the spotlight, you know. And that's part of the problem because everybody's just, you know. And everybody's saying how good you are. Oh, this is your family. You've done this. And, you know, and that's hard when you don't feel it, you know. When you know, hey, man, this is a. Yeah, one of the things, I think you'll find this interesting. One of the things I've implemented into my conversations. Because now, you know, we've become famous.

somewhat from just the podcast because people used to when they come up say i don't take a picture of duck dynasty a lot of people come up and they just burst out into tears because they've heard or start telling you you're wrong about well there's way off on this thing jay's there's always a few of those but there's more people who are sincerely moved and i always am quick to say because they're you know they're saying nice things to me

And I'm like, well, now you get it. You get the draw even from our duck show. It's not us. You're seeing the spirit of the Lord. This is what Jesus offers. But I think it's a good conversation to have because now I do it every time. Somebody gives me a compliment. I'm like, I mean, I bet I did it five times Sunday at church.

I say, yep. I say, I appreciate that. But what you're drawn to are these characteristics of the Lord that I'm sharing and showing through the Spirit of God. I always keep that in mind. That people say, well, what's somebody doing in the family now? I said, everybody is passionately sharing their faith.

And through a lot of different ways. And that's the beauty of what it is. And dad, I mean, and I so appreciate Will starting where he did in the book, that it all started with the decision of life change that then impacted the destiny of all of us. And that's the thing about it. People are listening to us and you may be just starting out and you got your family and you've really been struggling with something.

The decisions you make now don't just impact you in the short term. They impact the destiny of your entire family, your children. There's people coming a pretty good throng all the way to here. I look at them. How many states y'all come from? They start saying where they came from. And Al, for lack of a better term, it was worldwide. Yeah. I was like, I said, boy, what an opportunity that you better believe that

We preach Jesus, him crucified and raised from the dead. That's the message. Yeah, absolutely. And it's the one that impacts. To reset, because we just have a few minutes left in the podcast, and eventually we're going to get back to Acts. But I wondered, Will, while I had you on the podcast, I hadn't thought about this until I read the book, Now You're Here.

but we're in the end of Acts 18 and the start of Acts 19, and Priscilla and Achilles sit down with Apollos. That's in the book. Yeah, right. Well, there's a huge section in there, and before Al reads it, I was just going to say –

Part of being, I like gospel-er better than God. You can say it however you want to say it. Yeah. Part of being a gospel-er is you get into situations where people are like, well, I've been baptized, or I was baptized when I was a kid, or, and even sometimes you get into situations where I call a professional counselor because it's a situation where I'm like, I know the Holy Spirit can help,

can come in and move in and Jesus can forgive everything. But a lot of people bring certain baggage that you feel like, or I do, you know, I need some professional help here on how we're going to do this. But my point is that is a fear that keeps people from sharing and having conversations because you do get into situations that are difficult and,

Or you're just not sure, but you made a point of where we were in Acts because this was a situation that was tricky. You had people who were baptized by John, and then Jesus had died and been buried and raised, and the Holy Spirit poured out, and they missed it. They're still waiting on this Jesus or Jesus.

They had heard about Jesus and they misunderstood what John's baptism was all about. So it gets into that. But I do think it's a good place to go because you get into situations today. I'm glad it's in there. Because if that wasn't in the Bible, in the New Testament, I would be a little confused. So I'm so glad that...

That's in there. Here's the question I got on Acts chapter 19, where he says, you know, what spirit did you get? We didn't even know there was a Holy Spirit. And so then he explains it to them. And then they're baptized again. Now, here's my question. Why were they baptized again? Why didn't he just explain it to them? And like, no, here's the deal.

Because I feel like today, I feel like we'd probably just go, no, no, here's what you... But there was some need. Yep. There was some... Like, you know, why do that? Well, I think... I guarantee you a lot of people just today would be like, oh, just... No, you're fine. No, here's what happened. Oh, okay, I got you, whatever. And so the baptism...

I do think it was important. And then I pull in 1 Peter 3 as well with the baptism of cleanse of a clear conscience, which is different. These are the questions, and Corey and I have had discussions over this because...

sometimes she's, you know, for her, it's a little uncomfortable. It's like, man, you're, you're, you're trying to tell people all I'm doing is I want them to read some of these scriptures. They may not even know we're in the Bible. I want them to see it and then make up the decision for themselves. I'm not judging. I,

I don't know. I have no clue like where your heart is, what you're thinking, but I can show you these. And if you determine, if you're like, you know what? I think I've determined that here's the move to make, whatever that is. I will try to help facilitate that. But again,

I wanted to have some answers for the hope that I have, and I wanted to have some answers for people that here's some stuff in the New Testament that you can read. I don't just give a little, hey, you know, John 3.16, keep going, you know, like, because there was, like there, there was a question there. And I think even today with like...

with the kids, you know, with the – a lot of little kids get bad, little tiny kids, you know, and so that comes up a lot. It comes up a lot when they're 22 years old and you may be listening. You're like, I was one of those kids at summer camp at six and, you know – and again, I'm not judging what happened to you out there. I don't – I've seen people that are fired up and they have that story. But I have seen people who are at 22 or, you know –

Sleep with every girl they can sleep with. They're on drugs. Their life, when you go back to Galatians 5, 19 through 20 there, when you read that, it looks like

everybody would witness and say, your life looks like that list, not the fruits of the spirit. Yeah. But you're hanging on to something. You're like, well, I meant, but when I was, you know, and so if that's the case, I think, oh, that's why I think Galatians five, he says, it's obvious. Like it's obvious how you live in your life. And if you're not sure, just ask people to hang around. So, uh, but you do want to have these, you know, cause people will, they'll, they'll, they'll get a little confused and, and, and oftentimes guys, they'll, this is the first time they've thought about it.

in 13 years you know what i'm saying like well they haven't even thought about spirituality they don't need a theological argument about it's like i get a picture of two theologians arguing about what this person should do and they're sitting there saying well what y'all decide i mean this is more like somebody recognizes their life has not been characterized by jesus

They look at their religious experience, and now they're having a conversation with another person looking into God's word, trying to figure out what's my best course of action. I thought you did a really good job. I did too, and that's why I wanted to bring it up because I thought it was so, to me, encapsulates, just happens to be where we are in our text, our study, but so encapsulates the idea that you can be around God

things and not know who Jesus is and you can miss it. And that's why Apollos had a lot of good stuff going on, but he needed to know some things a little more adequately and he did. And then it comes right back in chapter 19 with an example of some guys that didn't know Jesus at all. They were like, ooh, you know? And so that's the- And so I really, that was the hardest part of the book. I would write something and I'm like, ugh.

That sounds too. And then what I would start doing is start thinking of somebody arguing with me. And I'd be like, no, somebody's going to. And then I'm writing to the argument rather than just write what, you know. I think my son-in-law, Jacob, before he was my son-in-law, Mayo, I sat down and we kind of boondogged and we got him hemmed up, you know, under a different circumstance. But I wanted to preach in the gospel. And I said, and so my simple way usually is just like, hey, do you have a relationship with Jesus? Yeah. When did it start?

Seven. Tell me about it. You know, and he starts telling me, how's it been since then? That's just the natural question is how's it been since then?

Well, 13, that's when I started smoking a little weed. And then 14, 15. And I'm writing them on the board. 17, 18, 19. Up until two weeks before. Two weeks before we were talking. Up until that point, it was all sin. Now, two weeks before, he started dating Bella. So I was glad that we made a turn. But I got a kid's life who's lived his whole life like this. But it started at seven in a minivan with me and my mom. And so I was like, well...

I said, you may should consider where you're at in life, whatever. He did nothing. He said, I got it. I think I'm good. I said, cool. Hey, I'm planting a seed. A month later, he comes back and says, I don't know. Now it's starting to, that conscience and it's starting to work on him. So think about this simple question. Jace, are you married? Yeah. How long have you been married? 33 years. Oh, that's awesome, man.

Think about if I said, Al, are you married? And you said, I don't know. I hope so. I ain't sure. I ain't thought about that in a long time. But that's the same answer. There's a woman that lives with me. That's the same answer I get when I ask it. Like, wouldn't that be so strange if someone gave that answer? Or if I said, are you married? You go, I got a marriage certificate. Yeah.

I've got kid. I've procreated, you know, it'd be like, I've got some. So when we think about the spiritual and then when we think about the natural and just natural questions we would ask, those would be normal. And so these are not weird. I think sometimes we're like, I don't want to ask a bunch of weird questions. What,

Just ask what you'd normally ask and then ask them in the spiritual line. And introduce them to Jesus. All right. It's the gospel or the gospel, depending on how you want to pronounce it. And also this little sharing Jesus with confidence, which is really a very practical way to help you be able to do that. So check them out wherever you buy your books. Thanks, Will, for both podcasts. Excellent. Thank you, guys. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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