Ep 935 | Miss Kay Triumphantly Returns, Cooking for Hobos & the Importance of Tough Love
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This is Kristen Bell. And Adam Rohde. And we're dating. In our new show, Nobody Wants This. Right, right. We're not really dating. No. In real life, we're married. Right. Married to other people, not each other. Ugh, this is complicated. Right? It's just like our love lives in Nobody Wants This, a show about what happens when a bold and sometimes provocative podcast host finds her unlikely match in a sweet, traditional rabbi. You can watch every episode of Nobody Wants This now, only on Netflix.

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I don't know if I'm funny or not. I might be. Don't try to be. That's my secret. Jace is funny without trying to be. Oh, yeah. He's funny just looking at him. You never got along with Jace when he was a kid, did you? We disagreed on about everything. Well, you know, he said it was because you didn't get any of his jokes. Yeah. I was kidding, Kat. You were kidding only when you got in trouble about it.

So welcome, Mom, back to Unashamed. So many people have been praying for you, and I get more questions about how is Miss Kay. Anything else with all my emails and all that. Well, they should have been praying, I'm telling you. You've had a remarkable recovery. Yeah.

Yes, I have. Do you feel like you've been resurrected sort of? I mean, not literally, but. Oh, it feels so good to feel good. Yeah. I mean, she was trying to help me at the beauty shop, like getting in and out of the shower. I said, I can actually do it myself. Thank you very much. Thank you.

I was telling mom about me starting my new diet. And mom said, well, you know, people have been telling me, I mean, you've lost weight. You look so good. Mom said, I haven't lost any weight. And I said, but it's your countenance. It's because you're more like yourself. Because for a while, you were down. You were having a hard time. And Phil's been helping you out a lot. He really has. Tell us about that. Because we've been talking about that on the podcast. He says he's been taking care of you.

And he's done amazing. I've been noticing it too. But from your perspective, how good has it been to have dad take care of you? Like the change between a...

Lost person and a saved person. That's big. That's big. Angels rejoicing in heaven over there. I'm telling you, he turned into the nicest man. I knew he was going to do that, or I hoped he would one day. But, I mean, he thinks about me. If I'm too long in the restroom, he's checking. Are you all right? Yes.

Just think, Kay, now you have a message to tell young girls who are considering getting married. If you wait maybe 60 years. That's exactly correct. But it'll work out. And then of those first 10, they were like, before he was a Christian,

Oh, I can't even say how they're like. I'd be saying a bad word. We know. We saw it. We made a movie about it. You got to rely on that person because of the change, because of Jesus. And you rely on that. And it turns out, she says, do you have any, fix me a glass of tea. I got it. I get to be him. Yeah.

You finish, you set your plate over to the sides, and then Dad takes it in the kitchen because he's done that to you for years. Yeah. It all came around. A couple podcasts ago, because I think we get so used to hearing Phil's jargon that we don't really stop and think about it. Yeah. But he gave me a really good bit that I'm going to put into my main speech when I go around, and I just...

I wanted to share it with you and see what you think about it. But so Phil did this thing in his class. He kind of he posed it like it was a Q&A. And I thought, well, that's neat. Phil's doing a Q&A in his Bible class. But his first question for the audience, I thought they were going to give him questions, but he was Q&Aing them. Yeah.

And he's like, how many of y'all have been drunk? That was a question. Yeah, and if I'd have been there, I would have been the only one that raised my hand. All the drunks raised their hands. But then he clarified his statement, and he said, I mean commode hugging drunk. Well, I've heard him say that before, but I really never stopped and thought about it. And then I thought...

He gave me a visual image, which is why I feel such a good communicator. I thought you're, you're hugging a commode, which usually you just do your business, but you don't want to spend any intimate time.

With a commode. You don't want the face down there. No. The last place you want a hug. Well, think about when you do that. You're either really sick. Yep. And I mean like the flu. And then all of a sudden you lose whatever shame and fear and embarrassment of that commode or the germaphobe idea of it. That's gone. I wasn't very much of a germaphobe. But still, you don't like to stick your head around a commode. No.

And I thought, man, what a thought. Or you're doing things. You've made a lot of bad decisions and you're sick because you're drunk. The thing about it was if you're sick, you didn't cause that. That happened to you. But when your commode hung a drug, you did that. You did it. You did it. And we had talked about that movie, Hillbilly. Elegy. Elegy. And there was a scene in there where the woman was trying to get drugs. And the whole scene revolved around.

The face of a commode. I guess that's what I had just seen that movie and Phil said that. So I had a bit in my speech that I've done for years, and it went something like, you know, trees don't need hugs. Right. People do. And it was kind of a little pitch on, are you serving created things or the creator? Right.

And is it a relationship? People, because it's, and it sets up well, because for the last 40 years, the little, I guess, slurry, you'd call it towards people that worship creation is their tree huggers. Yeah. Which to Jason's point. So now I was a clever way to, I've made an amendment to this and I'm, I'm thanking Phil. Cause I, my point is, I think this time of humility that he's given you has, has opened up, you know, some, some new material, uh,

But so now I'm going to say, look, trees don't need hugs. Neither do commodes. We need to be hugging people because one day we'll all hug Jesus. I need to comment on that. That was it. So the comments are welcome. Jason, I don't know if you know this, but ever since I went, the first time I come back to church after being gone so long, the building and, uh,

Jason came in to hug me, and he hugged me four times. I don't know if you knew that, if you remember that. No, I wasn't, but my almost got it. But now that you see what was behind it, you hug people. Yeah, you do, but I really appreciate it. I did. Well, good, Kay. I love you, that's why. I know. Then last Sunday, I said, oh, I wish I'd just got over being sick and Jason could come back and hug me, but I never saw you last Sunday. Yeah.

Well, once you were sick. Backstory on that. I tried to come to you, and I literally couldn't get there last Sunday just because people were coming up. It was like a herd of cattle, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a lot of visitors. And we had the little one that we help out with, the little toddler, and so we were balancing things.

Yeah, I understand. And normally, if I'm preaching, I go over and mom comes in and I give her a hug because she's got her little section over there with all of her little entourage around her. But then I didn't even get to see Sunday because I was preaching in the other room. Yeah. And then what did Dad say? Where's Al? I thought he was preaching. No, he did. I said, on the screen, on the screen. I was trying to catch up with local growths of the human race. That's all.

Local growths of the human race? Yeah. What? Rachel. Oh, I thought y'all meant people were having kids or population. Again, that is an interesting way to phrase things. So you told us before we came on that you had a dream about Layla.

I did. So what did you dream? Because Zach's here. He's all here. I don't know, but Max disappeared. He wasn't even in the thing. It was just about Layla. And it might have been her getting married because I can't imagine her married. And, I mean, she was so pretty. And I don't know. It was just about her.

I don't know. But you don't know what it was about. Max didn't make the dream. I'll tell him he didn't make the dream. Maybe I'll dream about you, Zach, next time. Why would you would? Use it as a way to see what he's been into. Yeah, why did you not make the dream? Why would you not make the dream? Let's have a talk right now. You never know. I've used that tactic before. You say, tell me what you've been up to.

It's obvious. And they're like, what? Oh, it's obvious. Zach, I had multiple times in my parenting life where something happened that was not that big a deal, but I did want to bring it up. And so I'd sit my two boys down because they were similar in ages. And I'd say, all right, look, I just want you to know, already know what happened.

So I just want you to go ahead and be honest and let's deal with it. What they confessed was way worse. I had no idea what they were. It is a very effective tactic. I use the same one myself. Missy said, you need to do that again. Ever so often, I thought, you know, it was quite genius. Well, I only got two weeks left with Max. He's going to Nashville to join Layla and Mia at Lipscomb.

And they're doing their music thing. Actually, Kay, they just released their first song together. Well, can I buy it somewhere? Yeah, can mom get it? I think you should probably. You should get an honorary copy, Kay, at this stage. You'll get an honorary copy of it. But I think if you use, you probably don't use Spotify or Apple. What is it?

He eats a lot of apples. It comes with the computer world. Who knows? Mom, when you think of apples, what do you think of? Daddy eating one. He loves good apples. What do you think when you hear Spotify?

I have no idea. Somebody's putting a spotlight somewhere, maybe. Okay, good. Okay, I'll put the Spotify and Apple links to their streaming music in the podcast show notes, and then you can get it that way. How's that sound? Yeah, that's good. Isn't that something that in our culture, somebody could hear Spotify and Apple in the same sentence, and Kay goes to a guy...

At night, using a spotlight, trying to get some apples up under a tree. Out in a grove somewhere. That's right. No, Phil and I didn't exactly grow with the new wording and all this new stuff. And technology. And computers, yeah. Yeah, it's okay. It's all right. I can still type. But you got Dan. So anytime I want to get something for y'all to watch or listen to, I just send it to Dan and he brings it down. Dan's a man.

He is. So I was going to ask you this. You know, we're in Ephesians 2 and 3, chapter 2 and 3. Thank you. And we've been, we just got through talking about how Jesus brings people together. But I'll have to admit, at an early age,

Y'all have always been very hospitable to people. I would venture to say, as a white woman, Kay, you have more black friends than any white person. I do, and I love every one of them. Well, I know. And so I was just going to say, you know, we know it's done in Jesus, but what do you think was the reason for y'all being that way when you were younger? Because now y'all are a lot more mature in Christ. We've always just had an open house.

Yeah. I mean, and people knew it. And I remember in college when he was playing football and all that, and then he'd bring over some of those gigantic men that played with him. Yeah. You know, the ones in the front. Yeah.

Linemen. Linemen. Yeah. Those. They could eat you out of house and home. And I would have this stuff, but I thought it would last me three or four days. They ate. I had no food left. Yeah. So then I said, well, what about beans for the next three days or something? I love what you said the other day. You said, you asked Dad, you said, what do you miss about, you know, what things I used to be able to do? And he said, well, I...

I kind of miss those big lunches you used to make. And I started laughing because I thought, well, even if you made a big lunch, Dad is not a big eater anymore. Oh, I know. He would eat a bird's portion versus the old days. I know. Do you think it was just because y'all were poor? Because y'all have never come across like you were better than anybody.

Well, I hope not. I've tried all my life not to do that. I know. I was trying to figure out why. I mean, ultimately... Well, I'll tell you mine, and you've heard it a thousand times, but it was my grandmother. I mean, she cooked...

And I would say, why are we cooking? The people that work at the store aren't coming today. She said, well, we want to have enough for the strangers. Yeah, yeah. We want to have enough that somebody – and I didn't realize either until I was a little bit older. We had hobos. Yeah. And I didn't know who they were. They're standing out in the yard, and she went and got them a plate of food, and they ate it, gave her back the plate, and thanked her and went on. Yeah.

Our mother, our mom did that. Yeah. People would get off of trains and the word was among the hobos, they knew that there's a house over there. The train track ran right behind them. They'll feed you. They said, but they got a prerequisite. You have to take a

some kind of bath. I had to clean up a little bit. Yeah. Because, you know, they're out there riding trains. Yeah, living on trains. So the hobos would come over, but I would see them. My mama, she would cook for them. And Mamaw, too. Her mom. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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Well, I do think we still have homeless. They've just kind of gravitated toward the urban cities. Well, and the biggest problem, Dad, is, in my opinion, I mean, there's a lot of different reasons why people are homeless, but mostly it seems to be drug-related, mental illness, a lot of that. In the old days, it seemed like, especially coming out of the Great Depression, these were just people who had a hard time finding a job, maybe lost their family. I don't know what all happened, but it seemed to be a different motivation. The whole format now...

In the 80s here, 2024, you look at the traffic. Now, it's a more dangerous traffic than it was before.

40, 50 years ago. Well, but you make a good point though. It was families that lived along a railroad that helped people. That's right. Now everybody's just like, well, let the government do it. Let's do a program. Let's do a build a thing. And, you know, it's always back to this idea that somehow you have this big nanny state as opposed to just people helping people. I mean, as a Christian, it was just like, well, yeah, the train comes by my house. Even 40 or 50 years ago. And I mean, these people were hungry. Yeah.

you know, get off a train, ride a train. They'd just walk out and kind of stand there. The word was, they'll accept you. Well, and they'd come up from the back of the yard there. For most people, you know, oh, it'd scare them to death now. But it was a thing, ongoing thing with us. You could make it to there, first thing you'd get is, it might have been beans, but beans. It was beans. They gobbled them up. I love beans.

That's one of my favorite meals, beans and rice. There was always a pot on the stove and it usually had enough for all of us and some of the hobos who'd show up. She would direct them

to wash their hands and get their, get their clothes off. And she would clean their clothes for them, you know. Well, don't you, wouldn't it be great if every state. All of us were just standing there looking at, watching them eat, you know. Yeah. The kids, you know. But that's probably what was teaching you, as Jason mentioned about being hospitable. Wouldn't it be great if every state government just said, hey guys, we can't fix this problem. So we're asking all churches to rally to help,

the homeless situation in your state. I guarantee you this thing will be solved in a year. Well, you could do the same thing with the foster care crisis too. I mean, that's a point I've tried to make on a previous podcast that you can't look to government

for the answer. I mean, that's it. I think we're learning. I mean, think about the amount of money the United States federal government takes in and how big these departments are and these programs are. And then look at the results of that when centralized people control everything. That's I don't think that's the answer. And I think the church stepping in being the answer, family stepping in being the answer. They would classify you into a group that the,

There were people who would help you out if you could get to their house and you need something to eat. You hadn't had a meal in two or three weeks. I mean, we would just reach out to them as a matter of life itself. We saw them all the time. They knew who we were. All the people on the train, word gets out, you know, these people here are Fiji. You can make it here.

I don't know how far they came, where they came from, what they were doing there. They were just riding the train. See, I believe that when you see those miracles, the twice when Jesus fed the 5,000, 4,000, it was a miracle, sure. But it was revealing what would be accomplished in us being the body of Christ. That's it.

I mean, we're literally making his presence known by feeding people out of our blessings and grace. Plus, you said this before. And we didn't say, why don't everybody do this? No, none of that. How many pictures do you see in Jesus' three years?

where he did something amazing with his disciples, whoever, around a meal setting. Oh, exactly. Around a table. It's over and over and over again. You know, sometimes I think the fear is that, well, what if they just come in and use me, eat my food, take my stuff, and they're just using me? And I've seen this in y'all's life, Kaye.

A lot of people have came in and used you and taken advantage. But Jace read a verse in a few podcasts ago was talking about Jesus fed all those people, but he knew a lot of them were coming just to get their fill. I mean, he knew that, but he still did it because there's some that you just never know what God's going to do. And he even said that.

When they came back, remember, he's like. Yeah, he said, you came because you had your fill. Yeah, that's John chapter six. It's a funny story. And it didn't bother him. No. But he humbled himself. You know, that's why I said, even when he prayed and talked about forgive us our sins. Well, I mean, I'm not sure I'd pray that prayer if I had never committed a sin. But he was willing to go along with the human family and sympathize with our weaknesses.

And look how he treated people. I mean, every once in a while, he got a little riled up at the Pharisees and gave a sermon. But it's not unlike what I think y'all's parents did, was they had a little harshness about them that kind of scared you. And so like when you're talking about when Phil would say, they would tell him to take a bath. Well, that wasn't a suggestion. It's like, well, my grandma, your mom,

She's saying this seemingly harsh, but they know she loves them or they wouldn't be there. They wouldn't keep coming. But it was no nonsense. And that's what I wish we could return to. She wasn't worried about hurting your feelings. Yeah. It kind of reminded me when we talked about the J.D. Vance movie. I remember one time. His mamaw was the same way. Yeah. She's very direct. Yeah. I remember one day.

There was one that was eating, I mean, he ate a, and my mama was making sure he was getting plenty of beans. We had beans and cornbread, I think. But somebody said, what about that meal? You know, one of them kids, what about it? You know, how's your meal? And they said, one of them said, oh, I've tasted better. And

My mother was stepped over there and she said, well, that's all you're getting. So you better make hay while it lasts, son. It's better than nothing. Don't insult the cook. That was rudeness. I remember mom. Don't bad mouth the cook when that's all you got to eat. We would have an especially large group of people. And a lot of times you hadn't planned them. It was a group meeting or whatever.

Mom would look over at me and she'd say, we're serving tonight. Meaning we're going to dip out the plates. That's right. Because, you know, if you just let everybody go buffet style, it wouldn't be enough for the end of the line. I need a bigger plate. Mom would jump in there and she would say, we're serving tonight. Yeah, exactly.

So you had to kind of be shrewd like that, right? Well, yeah, because the rest of the people wouldn't get anything to eat if you let the hogs go first and not make some kind of adjustment. That's terrible. Then Mom used to have a time where we'd have a lot of kids in the house, and they were taking stuff out from all of the toys in the back. So Mom would have a pat-down. She would frisk them. I did. It was a frisk and release.

I like the New York program, at the door as they were leaving out from the group meeting. It's amazing how much stuff they were trying to roll with. They would have pockets full. Mom would say, she'd take them out and she'd say, okay, you can keep that one. I started to say, I let them have quite a bit of stuff, but then here they go off with a brand new, no. No, I said...

Pull your pockets out. And then I'd see something in their pocket bulge, and I was like, okay, what's in there? It looks like a little tank or something you got from the— Mama's doing a Frisky release before they ever figured it out in New York. One of the things we talked about on the podcast before, Jace, and it's a biblical issue, but it's really a personal issue for us, especially being men, is the issue of pornography.

And it's negative effect on not only the mind and heart, but also the family, you know, marriages, relationships and all that. Well, I'm sure it's been around since the first humans, but now it's so much easier access. So it's a problem, especially with humans.

the young teenage mind, but you know, for, for everybody, but it's just so available and it's disrupting and giving you a, an illusion. And it starts at such a younger age. So our good friends at covenant eyes have been working on this for 24 years. Great group of folks. Uh, I've been aware of them back when I was a pastor working with young men, especially, uh,

And their job is to help protect families and find freedom from pornography with their software. And they also have free educational content. One of those resources is the Covenant Eyes podcast.

This show is dedicated to helping you unpack the positive and negative sides of technology and how as Christians, we can redeem it for good. That's what the Unashamed podcast is about. We're trying to put good into the world of the internet and the computer. With leading tech experts, Christian thought leaders, pastors, and therapists, they're going to do a deep dive into topics like the effects of tech on our children, pornography, ethical questions for Christians around technology like AI, and

and much more. It's a digital age. There's endless temptations and distractions. This podcast can help you learn to navigate faith and technology in God-honoring ways. So we want you to check out this podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows or visit covenanteyes.com to find more about this and all their other amazing resources. Of course, you can always try their software for free for 30 days with their promo code PHIL at

at checkout. That's covenanteyes.com. Use the promo code Phil. Check them out. I was going to make the point. These are the many facets of love. You know, if you're going to be a parent, because you see in our society now, the breakdown of the family and these lone wolf, usually younger,

Usually males, you know, who are shooting at whatever these things are. Because you, to me, I'm like. Shooting at the president. Exactly. Where are the parents with this tough love? Because as a parent, you know, you love and you feed and you provide and you protect. But you also give them words of wisdom very sternly. Yeah.

And you don't get your feelings hurt. And when you do as a kid, they're like, well, you get over that. What I'm telling you is right. This is just the way it is. And so I think that's why you can do that. I mean, you're doing that because you have their best interest at heart. Well, the greatest of these is love.

So you show love. And sometimes that means tough love. It does. I mean, you and dad had tough love. It took a while for you to get there with me because I was so deceitful. But you turned my life around. I thought you were an angel for a long time. Right, but I was really the devil. Jason, let me know what you were doing. Well, there was a voice in the wilderness declaring truth, and it took years for that. But look, that tough love, dad had a conversation and said, you've got to either change or

what you're doing, you're welcome to be here or you have to leave. Hit the road, Jack. Hit the road. It's just Zach, you and Jeff are the exact same thing. Oh, they were little angels. If it hadn't been for tough love, you wouldn't have turned it around either, would you? Well, I was actually doing mission work with Jeff. I never got off. I was there as a missionary, Kay. Yeah.

Yeah, you can tell a tale, can't you, Zach? I mean, they think they're fooling me, and they did fool me. Thank you. But we got around to what was really going on. Well, and Jeff had the famous line, which is now one of the most famous lines in our family, what took y'all so long? Yeah. Which is true. Y'all were trying to tell on him, and

Well, Willie was the key point on that one because he was working with the college kids. So, Jace, we've been talking to Ephesians. I love mom being here because this whole idea about kind of what we're just talking about, the idea of making peace by bringing people together. Oh, yeah. It's really been the heart of yours and dad's life for 50 plus years now. I mean, that's the whole idea. The text in Ephesians says,

As a prisoner of the Lord, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. In other words, it's make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. And it goes on to there. But, I mean, there is a, what would I say, a

A hard text or one that's still here on the way we operate when you're dealing with strangers, people you don't know, and the homeless and the poor. Reach out to them. Right. Give them a hand. Yeah. And look, the thing is, it's spread across. It's all of us. I thought about you, Mom, when Jace read this in the last podcast, in Paul's prayer at the end of Ephesians chapter 3.

It says, and I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power together with all the saints. And I love this. This is one of the best phrases in the Bible. To grasp how wide and long and high and deep.

is the love of Christ. And then he goes on to talk about how it surpasses knowledge. But I love this. It makes it so much on earth because it's directional. You know, this is bigger because we think of heaven. I don't know what the dimensions of heaven are, but I know about earth. And all the time we deal with how long something is, how wide, how high and how deep. Those are dimensions that we can deal with. That's how you build a house. That's how you do everything. And he says, there's no place that Christ's love is.

Can't read. I mean, there's in other words, you're not too far away. You're not too high. You're not too low. All the things that we think of as human beings. But when I think of you, mom, that's the way your love has always been. It seems like there's no depth to it or this. A person can't be too far. They can't come back into into your presence of loving them.

And you know what? I remember one little story. And my friend Alice, who is, oh, real outgoing and everything like that. But I remember she come up and told me she was in my group at the time. And she said, oh, okay, there's a poor looking woman in the back. Her clothes just look terrible. I know she smells and everything. And she said, let's go talk to her. What do you think? I was like, okay, I'm not, I won't quietly be.

really squeeze her, but I will be best I can. And sure enough, we took her to lunch and everything like that. And I was so proud of that girl because she did not see anything but a lost soul. Yeah.

And then she'd come and got me because she knew she couldn't take her lunch. She was too poor. But she said, let's go talk to her. I always said that one of my favorite things about mom being on the show is that we would be out someplace traveling, and kids would just come up to her, and it would be just like one of your own grandkids. I know. They'd just nuzzle right in, and, Ma'am, I'm okay, or Miss Kay. And they would tell you how much they loved you and all this stuff. And I was like –

Man, you talk about putting out the love vibe when total strangers felt that comfortable that they would come up and do that. I mean, just think about that. I mean, I have that happen to me every Sunday now. I mean, just girls, because I work with women and stuff, and they'll just come up and hug me, and I'm thinking, who is this? Where did I – I can't think of a name. I'm just saying, well, she loves me, and I told her I loved her.

Didn't know her name, but I did. Yeah, and do. Jason, what do you think about it? Well, I was... Jason loved hugging people. No, that was a process I had to develop. But I gave you my bit, Kay. I'm all for hugging people now. I know, and you did the best hugs you ever gave me, you know, two weeks ago or three. Well, that's the thing. That's a pitch for more hugs. Well, what I find interesting is people don't really...

They don't focus on the family aspect. In Ephesians where he said, our father were all families and fatherhood derive its name. I mean, I just think we don't tend to look at that God designed this as family units. And isn't it crazy that when you see that dynamic break down in any culture, chaos, the opposite of peace,

And that's really why he's saying that. I mean, he's going back to the beginning of creation. He set this plan forth. And so when he says a verse like he's able to do more than we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, you know, and his wisdom being shown. I mean, it's a pretty crazy story as you go back, even like when he picked Abraham and

who hears this introduction of faith, and it all started with a couple that was 190 years old. Now, obviously, he intervened supernaturally, and they have a baby. And here's Abraham who trusted him. He's like, I believe there's a God. And it's just, when you think about

That kind of story and what God can do through a family. That's why I think when people get older, you know, at y'all's age, you feel like, well, what can I do? But this whole thing was built, this promise because of his wisdom on two old codgers who had enough faith to believe and trust God. I mean, that's all they did. They just believed it. They said, we'll go along with it. Now, that was bumpy. You know, he didn't like them laughing.

Yeah. Laughing at it. Then we'll have, you know, my body's as good as dead. We're going to have a baby. And of course then he's asked to sacrifice the baby, which all became a shadow of what he was going to do for humanity with, with his son. But I think when you look at it like that, you, you start thinking, well, nothing's impossible for me. I mean, if I, if I believe God has my best interest at heart, he can do anything.

And so I think y'all's lives are very evidence of that. I think one of the, I guess, success stories as part of our podcast and our family has been we've always had a pretty strong biblical foundation as a family. Once mom and dad became Christians, I mean, it was life-changing for us. Yeah, it makes me think of that Ephesian passage where

You know, we're all part of the human family by God's design.

I mean, he is the architect of family. And then himself has that community idea. One of our favorite family emphasis groups is Focus on the Family. And they're all about building strong biblical foundation for family. And so they've got a podcast called Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Jim is the president of Focus on the Family, an amazing man, a good friend of mine.

And his story is unique as well because he didn't come up as a Christian, but later, of course, found Christ. And he's the perfect guy to be leading them. Every episode of this podcast is designed to help you confidently guide your loved ones through the unique challenges faced by today's Christian families.

With decades of trusted, compassionate stories of redemption, Jim connects you to biblically sound advice on marriage and parenting that's relatable, practical, and very interesting. It's not just another podcast. It's a lifeline.

So listen, learn, and apply to thrive in Christ by listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. You can check it out now on your favorite podcast platform, or you can visit FocusOnTheFamilyWithJimDaly.com and start making a difference in your family's life today. That's FocusOnTheFamilyWithJimDaly.com. Trust us, you're going to love it. It's a great point, Jay, because we mentioned this in the last podcast, that Abraham was

beginning point, starting in Genesis 12, and then passing through his generations, Isaac to Jacob, you know, on down the line, eventually the 12 tribes of Israel were his sons. The whole idea is that this would pass through a family. But isn't it interesting that all those thousands of years ago, God was giving us a glimpse of

into exactly what was going to happen when Jesus came. He would create this family. And so we've read this verse many times on the podcast, but Hebrews 2.11, when he says he's not ashamed to call us his brothers and sisters, I mean, our Lord and Savior says we're all in the same family, which is powerful when you think about it. So this idea extends. And I don't know, Zach, I don't know where this ideology came from. I don't know how long it's been at the forefront, but a lot of times now you even see people

And I think it's demonic. But there's this push that says in America, we have to deconstruct family. In other words, we can't have this idea of a patriarchy, a matriarchy. I mean, in certain circles, there's an ideology that's risen up in our cultural discourse. It says the one thing we got to do is break down family.

We got to get rid of it. How long is that? Do you even know how long that's been around or where that popped up? Because it just all of a sudden, to me, it just seemed like it appeared out of nowhere. I mean, I think you're seeing it more now than ever. But yeah, I think that's the evil one's tactic. You know, there's a lot of different ways

anti-Christian philosophical ideas that would seek to undermine, disrupt the family. I think that's because, you know, in Malachi, the last book of the Old Testament, the prophet, he wrote in there that the Lord your God hates divorce. And the reason why he says he hates divorce is because he seeks godly offspring. So if you think about

Family really being the sole purpose or the main purpose of the family is to procreate life and to create new worshipers of God through the sexual union of a man in a covenant relationship with a woman. And you see that from Genesis all the way through. And so it's no shock that the attack then is let's attack the family because if we can attack the family, then we can really disrupt because the family is the best picture of

Of who God is. I mean, Ephesians five gives a beautiful picture of man and woman, and he relates that to who Christ in the church. And and there's all these different correlations there. But the marriage and a family is a picture. It really is. It's a beautiful picture of the triune God, the two people coming together.

and expressing love, making love to one another. And then the byproduct of that, the overflow of that is actually life itself. So, you know, there's a, we could get into a long discussion on like where that came from.

I think it's one of the things that we have to stand firm on as believers in Christ and uphold and teach our people that are in our churches that this is a beautiful gift. And I like the way you said at the beginning of that, that it was of the evil one, which is why when you get later in the book in Ephesians 5 and 6,

he ultimately is going to end there and say, look, this is what you're up against. But he first talks about marriage. He talks about family, children. He talks about culture because he mentions the idea of slaves and free. And then he goes into what we're up against, these powers. Is that where it says about the armor of God? That's right. Yeah. Ephesians 6, 10 through 20. And

And so I think that's exactly how it's framed. But sometimes it's hard for us to try to inject that into our culture because it's like, well, we really can't do anything about that because these are godly things. And I'm thinking, well, we have to talk about it because it's destroying our entire culture and our society if we don't talk about that.

And so, you know, that's a big part of it kind of in our battle against the evil. Well, that's what I was bringing up about Abraham. You know, when you read a simple verse, you get to chapter four, you don't feel read the verse, but when you get to 11 and he's talking about, you know, having this unity in the church and we have different gifts. And I think that was a kind of a take on when God redeemed Israel from the

Egyptian captivity, one of the things they did, because they were so happy about it, is they gave him gifts. I mean, there's a whole section in there. And now it's crazy that you get to chapter four and see how God accomplished, starting with this promise to Abraham and a family, and because of his faith, saying, we trust you, that through that family, the whole world was changed, because eventually Jesus came through that

And so that, which was God's plan. And now here we are, instead of us giving gifts to God, he gives us gifts because of who we are in Jesus. And we use it to do what? To do the same thing. Because when he gets to Ephesians 4, 11 and 12, talking about the different gifts that people have, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers to prepare God's people for works of service and

So that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith. Faith in what? It's the same faith that when Abraham heard this God saying, I'm going to use you. And he's like, I believe you.

I mean, to me, it's crazy that a family can believe now with that same kind of faith for what we have in Jesus, that the world can be changed through being servants and being humble and showing Jesus to the world. And I think that pattern just repeats itself. That's why he would say stuff in Hebrews like, without faith, it's impossible to please God. At some point, no matter how bad it looks, you hear what Jesus did and you think, you know what? I believe this.

I believe that God can use me, despite all my flaws, because he loves me, to change the world. Spoiler alert.

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we will in all things grow up into him who is the head, that is Christ. From him and the whole body is joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love as each part does its work. So I tell you this and insist on it in the Lord because converting a bunch of Gentiles in the Jewish mind

what's the use they're not worth it so i tell you and insist on it in the lord you must no longer live as the gentiles do in the futility of their thinking these are the ones that are coming to christ and the trouble will be they're darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of god because the ignorance that's in them due to the hardening of their hearts having lost all sensitivity they've given themselves over

This is a Gentile world, to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that's in Jesus. You were taught with regard to your former way of life.

to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires, to be made new in the attitude of your mind, and to put on the new self, created to be like God.

and true righteousness and holiness. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood, speak truth to his neighbor. We're members of one body. In your anger, don't sin. Don't let the sun go down while you're still angry, and don't give the devil a foothold. So it's a process. It takes time. That was my point, Phil. The process, though, was...

Given by an illustration when he said, you'll all be built up and reach unity in the faith. Then we will no longer be infants. He's given you a picture of what the family does. Ground zero. You have an infant. I mean, I have an infant right now that's not a natural birth, but as a child of God.

I'm wanting to speak the truth in love so that he will grow up, which is that next verse, so that we will grow up until we reach unity into Christ, who is the head that is Christ. I'm saying that family dynamic is interwoven to that. We're new creations. We're a new family. All these things are...

are so positive and thrilling. And you have to be patient when you grow into that. Go ahead, Zach. Which is built, that picture that's being built there, it is a picture of family. And I think about some of my greatest memories in life when I think about moments of real, genuine peace.

Um, or maybe, uh, uh, maybe something that surpasses knowledge, you know, like, like Ephesians three talked about. I think about times when I'm with my family, I think about times with y'all. I think about, I think about the times when y'all would get us to come down there and pack the Walmart order. Okay. And you would cook for everybody. You'd have the big party, you know, we call it a party. You call it a party.

but it was really, uh, it really, we were getting rooked into doing. Because we were unified for a goal. And that's really exactly, it's such a good point. It's, it's what this is all about. We're working towards something bigger than ourselves. And you do it together. Yes. And, and, and,

And it made it fun. It didn't feel like work. It was fun. Well, that's why when you tell this to people. It becomes a way of life. Yeah, exactly. You tell this to people in the world, they look at you dumbfounded. But look, at 14, when I went in there and told Phil I was ready to be baptized, if I would have gone in there and said, Dad, I'm not sure I'm a man.

Look, I know exactly how that would have played out. We've heard what is responsible. Exactly. He would say, do what? Hey, no, you're a male. Go in there. Take your clothes off. Take my clothes off. Look in the mirror. Look in the mirror and confirm it if you have to. Well, it seems like a simple solution. But in our culture, you don't have people.

stepping up to younger people and saying, no, that's the craziest thing. Forget all that. We used to take our guns. They were in my truck when I drove to school at high school. Nobody's ever thinking I would actually get it out and shoot somebody. It wasn't because there was a rule involved. It was because my parents would, trust me, whatever happened would be worse. I mean, it's just not...

There's a built in fear and respect because of constant speaking the truth and love that guides you and grows you up. And we do the same thing in Christ.

You know, and you just, that's why you hang out in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The world can be changed if they'll just follow the teachings of the Bible. Because look, we had just read that prayer from Paul and talking about love, but the passage right after that dad just read sounds pretty straightforward and harsh, but it's still done in the same capacity of love. Yeah, here's the thing, though. If you think about the word love...

by its very definition, it takes more than one party. Right. So, so you see that in order for there to be a thing called love, there has to be a lover and one that is loved. Right. So, I mean, that's the nature of love. You can't love just if it's just one person. And so,

when you see the family, when you see friendships, when you see community, when you see the church, all this is, is you're seeing love outward. You see lots of people loving each other. And so that's the picture of what Paul is painting. Like this is what heaven is. This is who Christ is. This is the good life. This is the thing that surpasses all knowledge. It's love. And then the flip side of that process is the other process, which is the one that Phil mentioned in Ephesians 1.

Four seventeen, where it talks about the futility of the mind, the darkening and the understanding alienated from the life of God. So now we're talking about alienation. Now we're talking about self absorbed worship self. Let me get mine. I'm going to get what I want. And it's it let me consume. And you end up in a sterile, dead state.

isolated, alone, cold. I mean, just whatever adjective you want to throw at it, but you end up numb and dead and miserable. And we know that's true because look at the, look at the, those of us who have said, I'm going to go pursue pleasure at all costs. I'm going to just go do whatever I want. The end of that is, is you're alone. And,

And then the end of sacrifice is actually the complete opposite. It's community. Yeah, and patience. I mean, I think we think about it through the Spirit. One of them is love, joy, peace, but patience. And love is patient. Love is kind. 1 Corinthians 13. Yesterday when I was leaving, heading home, I got about halfway out of this area, and I come up behind a car, and it says student driver, and I just kind of rolled my eyes and I thought, oh, man, insurance.

And sure enough, it was slow go all the way to town. But then about five minutes into my impatience, I thought, you know what?

This is some young girl or boy, I couldn't tell from behind, that's learning how to drive. Learning how to drive. I need to just slow down, take it back, and let them not be pressured by me right on their bumper. And I thought it's a moment to be patient because someone is learning a better way. That really becomes part of it. But that's why I thought with our current culture, you know, one of the biggest problems are the cell phones because they've become a way –

to distract your kids. I see parents do it all the time. And I've always thought, boy, I'm glad I wasn't born in that era. But then I thought, well, if I was, I mean, there was a couple of things that were not tolerated and not paying attention or, you know, checking out, doing your own thing. That was not tolerated. It was a respect thing. It's like all the domino games we played. If I was sitting there on my phone when it was my turn to play,

They would have made very clearly. You know what you'd have got? Well, probably you'd say, boy, I'll thump your gourd. Oh, yeah. You don't. And so I just thought. You'd have got the thump on my head. It's not the phones are the problem. It's that a parent is saying, I don't want to deal with you. Yeah. So here, go to your mom.

Go do your own thing. Be distracted. And because they're just mesmerizing. But what happens? It's a mean world out there. They grow up like Zach just mentioned, alienated and distracted. It's all about me. And they have a fantasy view of the real world. They're not actually living and participating in conversations. They're not sitting around the dinner table and everybody's talking about the day.

and where truth is being spoken. So it always comes back to that kind of structure. And we have it in Christ, even without our own earthly family members. That's what we do with each other. That's what this is about. That's a good final word. All right, we're out of time. But before we go, just because there have been so many that prayed for mom, I'm going to offer up a prayer to the almighty of thanksgiving.

that God decided to give us some more years with you, Mom. Yeah. Well, I can't run a race or nothing like that, but I can walk. Hey, you're running the race. You are running the race. I just started walking. I kind of go like this. Don't I, Phil?

I just go this way and then I might go. And I thought, why is that happening? I didn't tell my body to go on earth. I told it to walk to the kitchen. The older we get, the more we swear. Have you got anything in the oven so we can have for dinner or what? Leftover. Leftovers. Just chicken. You're at that stage of your life, Phil. You don't talk about patience. All right, let me pray.

Father, we just want to close out this podcast by just giving you all glory and honor today. And we love you so much. Thank you for these things we've been studying that just really encourage and inspire us. And I hope it does to all the folks that listen in as well. And just wanted to offer up a special Thanksgiving for mom being here today and

So many prayers have gone up and we know, you know, she's prepared. She's ready, just like we all are. But at the same time, we like having a little more time on this earth to make a blessing. So thank you for hearing our prayers, giving her health and strength. Thank you for Unashamed Nation, all the great prayers that have gone up for her family. We love you and we give you all glory today in Jesus' mighty name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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