Ep 948 | Jase Breaks into Willie’s Secret Treasure Hoard & Simplifying the Abortion Debate
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This is Kristen Bell. And Adam Rohde. And we're dating. In our new show, Nobody Wants This. Right, right. We're not really dating. No. In real life, we're married. Right. Married to other people, not each other. Ugh, this is complicated. Right? It's just like our love lives in Nobody Wants This, a show about what happens when a bold and sometimes provocative podcast host finds her unlikely match in a sweet, traditional rabbi. You can watch every episode of Nobody Wants This now, only on Netflix.

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I've been ready for this my whole life.

I actually have some notes for the first time in about eight months. This moment, his whole life, man, has led up to this moment. Oh, no. This is it. I'm not sure I can even read my writing. How late was this when you were scribbling this out? It was after midnight. After midnight.

I had a jujitsu warrior on the podcast in my absence and you had, we did. It was the jujitsu and a good, and a good Bible man too. And a good Bible man. Was he a Navy seal? I don't think so. He was in the military, but I think he was a Marine. I'm not sure.

But he's not as bad as Robichaux, but he's definitely a man you don't want to trifle. You mean bad in a good way? I mean in a good way bad, yeah. Robichaux is bad to the bone, but he's good-hearted. That's what you want. You want a good-hearted believer that's bad to the bone. That's the guy you want to have on your team. Sounds like a country music song. That's a new song. When we get Rat Walker back on this, Jase, can you sing him a few bars of that?

Good Hearted Madness. I was really proud of that song that I created. I thought it was pretty... He was impressed. Five minutes driving down there, and it was just crickets. Were you on there, Zach? Yeah, I was on. I thought it was creative. I mean, honestly, it had a Johnny Cash vibe to it, which I'm a big Johnny Cash fan. I like Johnny Cash. You were in my wheelhouse, Jace. I thought the same thing, Zach, because I started to go into my ring of fire. Jace was inspiring me, but...

I started going to Ring of Fire. So Zach, so I got this in the mail and it was so weird because when I opened this package, I was sitting at my table and cause he had come over to meet the Brody and JD Malone. We had them on the podcast when you were not here. Olympic champion bronze medal. How good was that?

What? I like that guy. Oh, they were awesome. And they're just believers. I mean, unashamed. It was fantastic. I think it shows God has a sense of humor. Why is that? Well, I just stereotype male gymnastics into... Jace actually repented on the podcast, Zach. He repented. I thought, you know, they're just... We're just not...

On the same vein of a view of life, I've just never considered putting on some little tights and go jumping around. But look, Jason, don't feel embarrassed. Zach's already there. We got to cut that out. Not that there's anything wrong with that. You've already dealt with this? Yeah, we dealt with it with Brody, his own dad. He's like, you know, we're horse people from Tennessee and ultimately Georgia. Yeah.

He said, and they played baseball and all the, he said, normal sports. But then he's like, he jumped out of the crib and broke his arm. Oh, yeah. He said, how did this, I asked how this all got started. Because deep down I was thinking, you know, it's just not something I would think I would pursue. And he's like, he did a double back flip out of that crib. Broke his arm at two years old. Yeah, he just was into jumping.

And he was like Spider-Man in their house. Yeah. And so like, he has a gift. Yeah. But look that. So that night, uh,

I don't know if we talked about this that night. He got in the living room with all my grandkids and he's like, he can put his hands down on the floor and he levitates himself. Yeah. You told them story. Oh yeah. Up into the air. Oh, it's hard to do. Every time I do that, I feel, you know, it's not an easy thing to be able to do. But the guy loves Jesus. And I'm like, they were, they were great. God always works in ways that you have never considered.

So what we said was, so in the Olympics, I'm going to give you a heads up for 2028, Jay, as a winner. Don't watch the opening. Don't watch the closing. Just watch the people. Yeah. And the stories. That's where you go. We should support our fellow Americans. Exactly. And especially this guy turned out to be unashamed. Because you heard his perspective. This guy was training, I mean, every day.

Three to six hours a day for four years. For four years. Not counting all the rehabs and all. Physical therapy. I mean, you just think, that's a life of sacrifice. So I opened this package, and I recognized it because it was like another package I'd gotten a few weeks back. It's from our friends out in Lubbock, Texas. They're at Pardner Poured Silver.

And they're the ones that gave us the little silver things. And we remembered Zach. So I happened to be here the day I got the first package. Yeah. So when I came in, of course, Zach's watching and I gave Cy yours kind of jokingly to make it pretty much. I don't know if you gave it to him. He just took it. And then took it and left with it. He said, no, no. Hey, well, these folks obviously listen to the podcast. So they felt bad for you, Zach. So they sent Cy one to my house.

You know what this means.

He now has two. And that's exactly what happened. So he took the one, but he didn't get the other one back, did he? No. He said, yeah, I'll take that. And I said, Zach, and they even said in the note, it's a bigger one. This is a bigger one. It had an extra ounce of silver in it. And the note says, since he is apparently absconded with Zach Silver, I suggest that this one go to Zach. It's even bigger and has more silver. Nope. Nope.

So I got them both. Zach, look. There's a word for that in the Bible. It's called a thief. Yeah, isn't there a commandment that goes with that? Here's your best course of action. Here's the best course of action. If that makes its way to a poker game that I'm involved in. He may win your silver back. And then I'll make you a pretty good deal on it. I'll buy it back from you.

For a reasonable prize, Zach, you might get that silver back. Moral of the story is don't leave silver coins that are yours laying around in the Robertson household. And let me just say, Tim, I know you're going to hear this, so don't send more silver because Zach's never going to get it. Exactly.

If you keep sending it, it's not going to... You DM me on Instagram. I'm going to tell you what it is. I don't even know my Instagram. I don't have Instagram on my phone. Look me up on Instagram. DM me. I think I'm at... I don't want to say what my... I don't know where I'm at. Whatever it is, DM me. I'll give you my address. Zach is hard after that. If you send it there, I'm never going to see it. Any gifts that come to me, you got to send it to me directly because I won't get them. That was the most confusing appeal I've ever heard from a person.

I mean, I can't hold on, but I'll hold on. This reminds me of the time the TV show that we were doing at the time. I think it was on the outdoor show. But they would interview us. You remember we had the Marine was the director. I ran into him last year. Oh, really? Yeah. And they would interview us and they'd be like, what do y'all have going on? Because they were trying to get show ideas.

I said, well, here's what you ought to do. I was kind of just kidding slash griping. I was like, we get all this product in from these companies who want to sponsor the video or we get samples. I was like, but my brother Willie has turned that into the holy of holies and no one is allowed. You have to tie a rope on somebody to go in there. Let's break in there and y'all film it. And they were like, let's do it. Oh, I remember that episode. Yeah.

When we broke in, because people say, oh, it's reality. It's all staged. Yeah. No, I had no idea what was in there. I could not believe the amount of gear. But when I got to- It's still going on, Jase. Now Martin has taken that role. I got to a certain place in the Holy of Holies.

And I'm finding all this stuff that has my name on it, stitched and engraved, which that became the hub of the episode because I was like, who in the world? He can't even wear it. It's got your name on it. Horde stuff with somebody else's name on it. Oh, I was infuriated, which it made great TV. And I said, I'm taking this. Well, Willie is a notorious hoarder. He can't talk about mom.

Because he's worse than Mom. Well, in Willie's defense... He buys properties now just to hold on to them. But when you hoard someone else's property, that's what I'm trying to say. That's not hoarding. That's stealing. In his defense, I don't think he knew it had an... You know, because is he going to go down there? No, he just told whoever... See, I would be conscientious enough to go through the box and if I had your name on it, I'd bring it to you. That's me. But Willie's just never even going to... Well, he has minions, and so they...

They're just taking all the gear. Well, his main minion is Martin, who still is a hoarder. This is 20 years ago, and look.

I guess I've gotten over it, but... I don't think you have. Yeah, maybe. It doesn't sound like... It sounds like you're still holding on. I need to call and make restitution with it, but... So Zach, tell us why you were not here, because you were doing some pastoral work. Yeah, well, it was interesting. You were doing the Lord's work. Well, which month? Jay still threw you on the bus, but I tried to defend you and say you were doing the Lord's work. I mean, keep in mind, I had a weird dream about you last night, because in the last three months, I think you've been here twice.

I'm reluctant to ask, but what was the dream? You want to hear the dream first? If it's weird, don't say it. But if it's not weird. Well, it's a dream. I think all dreams are weird in their own way because there's no rules. And the fact that I keep remembering some of these dreams, Missy said that's more disturbing. I told her. It's true because most people forget that. I previewed the dream for her.

And I got crickets. So I'll attempt it again today. But that doesn't always mean it's not funny. Sometimes Missy just doesn't get your humor. She didn't interpret it for you. She never cracked a smile, and she just looked at me with a blank stare. Because I kind of phrased it, and I was like, I think we're watching too many investigation-type shows. She said, what do you mean? I was like, you know, we're watching Dateline, and we only watch movies that are true stories nine times out of ten.

I was like, because last night I had the weirdest dream that men with black suits showed up. And basically, I thought they were kidnapping me, but they wanted me to help on an investigation. So this is like men in black. Yeah. And guess what the investigation was? Where's that? Fine. Zach Dasher. He was because they were worried that he was doing something illegal. Yeah.

And so, look, I start running this investigation. And it's just like the show. I had the big board, you know. And look, all these things came up. It was like, is he, you know, first we thought, well, he lives in this mountain. And maybe he's secretly running for mayor of the mountain.

That was like a clue that he'd come in and lead. And it was like... And he does live on a mountain. But what was so funny is every time a situation would come up, it would be like, no, he's just trying to climb the mountain.

It's like, okay, he's been doing some mountain climbing. Well, that's not it. That's a diversion, you know? Yeah. And some of the other ideas were so crazy I can't even remember. But what it finally got down to is I guess I saw some blurb about, you know, there's two astronauts that left the Earth. Yeah, they're still up there. Zach is in that shuttle. Yeah.

He somehow was because, look, he thought he was doing this real intense study on how evidence. And it was like all the blurbs that was that was being discussed. Like nobody could understand. People were looking up and they had books and they were trying to look up the lingo.

Now we're getting to Zach on the podcast. He's doing a secret space mission to find the origin of God. And so that's what you were actually doing. And you rescued the astronauts too, Zach. Let me be the first to say this. Welcome back to Earth. Welcome back, Zach. It's good to be back. Yeah, I wasn't on a spaceship or anything like that. I actually went down to a, it's kind of a sad but kind of beautiful story.

So I performed a ceremony, a wedding ceremony. Jill's best friend got married about a month and a half ago. The best friend other than you. Right. Other than me, her childhood friend. Okay. Her best friend from child, like her growing up. Yeah. Because if y'all are not best friends at this point in your marriage, we need to talk. Me and Jill or Jill and the other girl? You and Jill. No, yeah. I'm the best friend now. Okay. So yeah, that's a good clarification.

But this is like, you know, you have those few people that you stay in contact with. They've stayed in contact over the years. And she lives down in Atlanta. And so she had met the love of her life, an amazing guy. And they fell in love. He gets diagnosed with colon cancer and cancer.

ends up like but they still say we're going to go through the wedding so i perform they asked me to marry them so i performed the wedding ceremony down in georgia about a month and a half ago and he was pretty sick at the wedding but it was so beautiful because i was like you know this is like

I mean, I'm looking at like a covenant happened here. What did is all about like service and sacrifice to someone else. And it was, it was just the whole ceremony. The whole like weekend was just so beautiful. The Holy spirit was there. God was clearly evident, uh, in, in, in this union. And, um,

Make a long story short, like that. Yeah, he he passed away last week. So we went down to his funeral, which was honestly a beautiful ceremony and just what a tribute to his life. So, yeah, that's that's why I had to go get go out of town for a day. But it was one of those stories. I was like, man, it's like.

How often do you remember like the Jerry Maguire movie and the line that Jerry Maguire has when he comes back in? Yeah. You complete me. And I've always like busted that as like, don't go into marriage that way because no other person is going to complete you. Marriage is much more about sacrificing yourself for the sake of someone else meeting their needs. And I actually think that's the beauty of marriage.

the entire gospel and everything that who God is, is, is God sacrifices himself for the needs of others. And then he calls us to do the same. And I saw this. And even causes the bride, his bride, the church causes his bride. I thought, man, it's kind of in a weird way. I know that they're, that their marriage only lasted on this life. It only, you know, it was a month and a half of marriage, but for me, it was so, so moving to see that level of love and,

that they loved each other even in the moments where, like, I mean, I think they kind of knew in the back of their mind this may not last long, and it was a lot of pain in it. But the beauty, in my opinion, overshadows the pain, and it was evident at the funeral. It was just such a great testament. Well, just think about it. He only lived in six weeks, but look at the gift that she gave him.

you know, before he crossed over. And I mean, what a beautiful thing that is. Like she could have easily said, well, why do I want to go through that? And then have to, you know, go through this with a husband when, you know, a lot of people would say, oh, it's not worth it. But with her, it was worth it, which is a beautiful thing. You're right. It's a great comparison.

Jace, would it be safe to say or fair to say that families are a bit messy? Families are messy. You're born into one and you have no choice there, which I'm still having to wrap my head around. You just got to go with the hand you're dealt. And then...

If you're blessed, you create another family. And now here all that goes. Same problems. That's what makes it messy. And I've gone through the whole thing where you have the babies. They become teenagers. It gets real messy during that point. Then all of a sudden you become an empty nester. But guess what? They might have left, but they never left.

It just continues. That's a great point. And we love trying to help people find better ways to lead their family. Of course, we know that a strong biblical foundation is what does that. And our good friends that focus on the family are,

I have a podcast and this is exactly what they deal with, with all the materials and all the things that they do. It's called Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Jim's a great friend. His own story is amazing and messy. And that's one of the reasons why I love what he does. Every episode of Focus on the Family is designed to help you guide your loved ones through the unique challenges faced by today's Christian families. With decades of trusted, compassionate stories of redemption,

Jim connects you to biblically sound advice on marriage and parenting that is relatable, practical, and interesting. It's not just another podcast. It's a lifeline. A lot of complex things that go on in the family. And so if you're searching for ways to make your family better, Focus on the Family with Jim Daly is a great place to start. Check it out now on your favorite podcast platform or visit Focus on the Family with Jim Daly dot com and start making a difference in your family's life today.

That's Focus on the Family with JimDaily.com. Trust us, you're going to love it. That's good, Zach. You were doing a good work. We stepped in. Jason, it's funny you mentioned that about remembering dreams. Three or four nights ago, I had one that was so vivid, I remembered it. I was on a ship, and I was with President Trump, former President Trump, Tucker Carlson, and somebody else that I can't remember.

Y'all were taking a ship? We were on a ship. Oh, boy. It's like we had been- Like a boat ship? Like a boat ship. A rocket ship. A boat ship. Like 1700s type? No, it was like a modern ship. Oh. But then apparently we were kidnapped because a woman came in and was going to tie me up, and she looked like Janet Reno, the former attorney general or whatever during the Clinton years.

And that's what woke me up because I'm very claustrophobic. And so the idea of being tied up on that ship was too much for my brain to take. So I don't know how it ended. I'm hoping that Trump and Tucker got out. Interpret that one, Jay. Thanks for sharing that. I think you may be...

Fixing to enter a midlife crisis. Well, I've been watching these conventions, you know, because we have the RNC and the DNC. I think it is what you put in. Somebody said, you know, it's kind of like what you put in. That's kind of what reflects your dreams. Yeah, and that's true. That's kind of scary. And you've been worried about Zach. You've been worried about me. Yeah, I guess I think I just thought, man, we need some help.

But he's back. He's back from business. But y'all had, I mean, you had other guests that were, y'all were stacked up. Well, actually, right, Zach. And you and I actually talked about it because we had the Malones coming on. And so we knew we had some people. And it's a little crowded sometimes when we're all here and trying to interview guests. I think it's more, too, that Zach's one of the few people I can make fun of.

And he not get his feelings hurt. He's thick-skinned. I need that in my life. In this sensitive world that we're in where everybody. He's actually double thick-skinned because the Robertsons are quite naturally thick-skinned. But then the Dashers on top of that, that's a double whammy, Zach. I mean, it's vicious sometimes when I visit my cousins in North Carolina. You got to be ready. Do you think we're brutal? Yeah, to each other. You're a little nicer to others, but yeah.

Sometimes it's, you know. But you keep the big stuff. But they love each other like us. At the end of the day, everybody's going to be there for each other, which is good. All right, so y'all ready to get back to Ephesians? We got the band back together. The band's back together. Zach's back with us. Chase has notes. I do have notes for the first time. Can you read them, though? Well, not without glasses because it was real late last night and I had this. Because I've been spending a lot of time with toddlers.

and babies at this stage of my life, grandkids, other situations. Oh, yeah. Can we talk about that, how that works? Well, yeah. It's all good. One of the baby – I'll put it this – I'll say this sentence. One of the babies in my life –

Had some medical condition. And we prayed about it on the podcast. Yeah, and I appreciate it because yesterday, which has been a few days since we've done the podcast, yesterday we went and visited, and he's his normal self. So fantastic, successful surgery. But I think it made me look at this text in a different way. Not that it hadn't said the same thing it's always said.

But, you know, there's, you know, where we're at, Zach, because, I mean, you probably have no idea where we're at. I was going to say, yeah, like, just give me a refresher of where we're at. We're in this thing called... Zach, we're in Exodus now. We're in this thing called the Bible. And there's a book called Ephesians, and we're about halfway through chapter four. And we just had this...

I would deem a battle cry for unity based on what God has done through Jesus and in Christ over and over the book of Ephesians. It is frightening in a good way. How many times it says in Jesus, in Christ, in Jesus, in Christ, in Jesus. I mean, how someone could possibly miss that is beyond me. So whatever you read in here, it is obtained in and through Jesus Christ becoming a human.

So he has that mantra, you know, where it's like one body, one spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and father of all. And so his appeal was to be humble, to be unified in the spirit. And we talked about the gifts that he's given. And we made this analogy that he made from kind of the old system with Moses ascending and getting the law and

you know after Liberating God's chosen people from captivity well Jesus fulfilled that and as he went into the was ascended to the right hand of God he liberated humanity itself from the slavery of sin the evil powers that roam to and fro between heaven and earth out to do do us harm and so

What, in essence, happened is he pours out his spirit. He's the exalted king, and he gives these gifts to us. And so that's kind of where we were at. And then he explains it in verse 11. I think this is where we left off, huh? Yeah, right in there is exactly where we were. So he gives some of the different gifts as far as their role in helping the church grow

complete their function which he describes here equipping the saints yeah it was he who this is 411 it was he who gave son to be apostle son to be prophet son to be evangelist son to be pastors and teachers to prepare god's people for works of service so that the body of christ may be built up and we talked about how we usually have that backwards people think oh we pay

pastors to do the work. Yeah, we hire it done. The exact opposite. Like it's your yard or something. Yeah. So then it says, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son, that is a common theme in Ephesians. Growth equals knowing Jesus better and better and better. Absolutely. Of God and become mature. Complete is that word. Or complete. Retain into the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Verse 14.

Then we will no longer be infants. That's the word. That's why I brought that up. I've been dealing with a lot of infants. So when you think about that, that's kind of a profound thing. He says... It's overriding everything is based on the truth.

Yeah. Hard to get the truth anywhere you go. Hard. And to be able to understand it, to Jason's point. I mean, an infant doesn't understand the truth of life yet because they're too young. Their minds haven't formed. But he's comparing us to infants. Exactly. Which tells you something. Now, just think about that. So I wrote this down. What kind of story? Only in the Bible you'd find you have a baby, a rickety boat in a storm, and con men.

There's just three illustrations. Yep. Because he says, then we will no longer be infants, infants, hossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there. Well, then you get a picture of what? Of a boat being blown back and forth. A boat full of babies, right? Mm-hmm.

And then it says, blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Con men. Yep. Con men for Jesus. Yep. Religious con men. Religious con men. With an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go, the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There, you can recharge before the big adventure.

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Then he says, instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the head that is Christ. And I want to back up because that statement seems crazy because usually you don't grow up into your body doesn't grow up into a head. You have a head and you just grow up altogether. But if you'll notice, if you'll think about it, your head becomes more discerning as you grow.

which is a problem with infants, is their ability to discern. One of the bad things that I saw happen at this hospital when we were dealing with this baby is when he was getting better, they brought him some chocolate milk, but it was expired. And, of course, I didn't notice it was expired until he had already drank it.

And I thought, what kind of hospital are we running here? Who gives expired milk to an infant? Or to anybody. But it made me think about this passage, an infant.

You can give him good food, expired food, or poison. And he's going to take either one of those three things if you give it to him. Yep. And so that's what I said. He's saying grow up into the head. Well, it made me go back and look at 413, Al. And I have an NIV translation, but I'm going to have to admit, this is the NIV terrible translation here. Because when I looked it up into the Greek,

It says, when it says, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Well, when I looked in the Greek, it says, it goes from plural, until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son and become a mature man.

It's a singular reference, which I thought was fascinating. Of course, I know why they didn't put that there, because you're like, well, that doesn't make sense. How could you all grow up into one? And it made me think of the, I wrote down this verse, Philippians 1, where it says, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel.

I know where it is on the page here. Here it is, Philippians 1, 27. Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit. Well, he's talking to a group of people, but he says standing firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel. Which is a great picture.

This body idea, the same one you see from 1 Corinthians 12, that whole chapter is the idea about this idea that we are one body. It's many parts. He just said that in Ephesians 4. We have different kind of parts, but we're growing up into one.

Yep. That's a, that's a, that picture is hard to grasp, but the language is very effective in helping us grasp it. That when you think about growing in to like moving in to, um, growing up in every way into him, who is the head, which is really different from a lot of the way I think the church has interpreted scripture. And then we read this and we,

We think that it's more about let me get the right set of beliefs as opposed to learning about a way of living. Or a person. Yeah, or learning about a person better. Or as Willard put it, he says the kingdom of God is,

is not about a set of beliefs, but about a way of life. And here's the way of life. It's the way of Jesus. And it is the way of self-sacrifice and humility. And it is through this way that we find true fulfillment and the fullness of life. And I think because you're moving into a person. But what we want to interpret this as is we're going to read these scriptures and then we're going to get the right set of beliefs out of it. And then we think we're going to be good. And that's just never...

Made anybody good. You know what I mean? And I think that's the, that's what he's talking about here. Jace is life in Christ. He's talking about participation in this life. And, and I think that we push back a lot on, on the theologies that would diminish that quality of life and move us into some kind of arrogant, you know,

of some kind of acquirement of the right stuff. The knowledge he's talking about here is knowledge of him. It's intimate knowledge of him, knowing him, being transformed. That's what it says. Yeah. That's it. We're not making this up. So, Jase, there's something interesting. When you were talking about infants a minute ago, I was thinking that I had heard one time that there was something, and I thought it was the eyes, that...

It doesn't grow with you. In other words, when you're young or an infant or even born, you have the same all the way through. It doesn't change about you. So I looked it up, and it's really interesting. There's two body parts in the human body that don't grow in size from birth to death. The first one is the innermost ear.

It's called your ear ossicle. It's when you're born, or actually in the womb, I would assume, whenever you can hear, that it never grows. It's the same your entire life. And the second one is your corneas. By the third month, they're the width they're going to be for your entire life. Isn't that interesting, the two things? And Jesus says, if you have ears, what?

Let him hear. If you have eyes, let him see. And even from infancy of spiritual, because we're talking about spiritual infancy here, there's two things you can always do, and that's listen and look, which makes us a better disciple. So I had never thought about that until you said that. I never even knew that. Those are the two things. So it's very interesting as you're an infant. Well, what I found fascinating with focusing on that word infants is when you read Peter's letter,

Because this is a totally different perspective, you'd think, Paul and Peter. But it's amazing how you see the same lingo. And it kind of had a profound effect on me because it sent me back to Jesus' part of knowing Jesus better. You know, when the conversation he had with Nicodemus, you remember what he told him? He was like, you need to be born again. And he was like, well, how can I get back in my mother's womb? Which is what a normal human would think when you hear that.

Because nobody had ever said that before. Even when Paul, right. That was a new term, born again. What does that mean? Yeah, it's like. We say it all the time because Jesus said it first, but before he said it, it had never been said. Well, even now, politically, you know, the Democratic Convention, and they're drawing attention to, you know, abortion and having vasectomies, you know, there. Provided at the. But it made me think, well, I'd like to have a booth.

on the other corner with a, like call it the born again. You can be born again. I mean, it's tough to get born these days. And now there's a way to be born again. What exactly does that mean? Which makes me realize that it's always a, it's a positive thing to be born. That's positive. You know, there are some religious groups who deemed that a negative thing. There's nothing negative about,

that you can attach to being born. It's a gift of God, James 1, I believe.

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So, but first, Peter, watch his phraseology. I don't know if you have noticed this before. I did not notice this till last night. I guess I was looking for it. But so in verse three, he says, praise be to the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy. He has given us new birth. Well, there's that phrase. New birth into a living hope to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

from the dead and into inheritance that can never pour, spoil, or fade. So in verse 10, you'll see some of the same framework that we've seen in Ephesians. It says, concerning this salvation, the prophets who spoke of the grace that was to come to you searched intently.

And with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the suffering of Christ. You remember Ephesians 1 when it got off in that this is the appointed time that God would send Christ?

Verse 12 of 1 Peter 1, it was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. But then he goes on to say, prepare your minds for action, be self-controlled, set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Look at verse 14. As obedient children. Here's another reference to young children. Yeah, young children. Do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do. So then in verse 17, I love this. It says, since you call on a father who judges each man's work impartially,

Live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear, for you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver, gold, that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed to you from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ. Going back to just this is in Christ, in Christ. Look at verse 20, same terminology. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Through him, you believe in God who raised him from the dead and glorified him. And then he says in 22, now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth, you love your brothers, love one another deeply. Now we're getting back into unity from the heart. Now watch this. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable through the living and enduring word of God.

And then he quotes this from Isaiah 40. All men are like grass. All their glory is like the flowers of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall. But the word of the Lord stands forever. And then chapter two, it says, therefore, rid yourselves of malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, slander of every kind. But here we go again, like newborn babies.

Crave pure spiritual milk so that by it you may grow up in your salvation now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. I just thought it's fast. I know it was a long reading. That's milk that doesn't spoil, by the way. It didn't expire. Which I just trying to give you a picture there. When you have something government run versus something that God runs, God is usually going to have a better brand of milk. Yeah.

Yeah, I think the hard thing to get in that is two things. One, we have to redefine, and I would say in the biblical context, the word faith and the word sin, because that's what we're having a difficult time with. I think we think sin is a violation of some arbitrary commandment that God gave, like a moral or a legal failing. But sin, properly defined, is really, I think, better said like this. It's a distortion of

or a perversion of the very nature of what it means to be a human. And it's a, it's a turning away from our true end and, and directing that somewhere else. It's a misdirected desire, uh, uh, uh, or your aim in there. It's a, it's a wrong aim. And, and, and when you think, well, what, what should I be aiming at? Well, what I should be aiming at is life. And so to aim away from life, abundant life, uh,

That's that is the definition of sin. And faith is like the the opposite of that faith would be to rightly align your desires in your in what you are pursuing towards towards life.

And I think that the reason why this matters is because if we think that sin is just, oh, I failed the moral code. I just I violated the rules. I broke the rules. And now I got to go make that right and get all that set up. And then when you read the Gospels and when you read the book of Ephesians, you're going to miss all this part about life in Christ. What he's actually saying is, is that what you read out of that first Peter, second Peter.

First Peter. First Peter about tasting that the Lord is good. The reason why you can actually grow up in the knowledge of him is because it's like the analogy here is the milk. It's like if I drink the milk and it tastes horrible.

And guess what? I'm not going to want to do anymore. I don't want to drink that stuff anymore. But if it's wonderful and I taste this milk, like, man, this is the best thing I've ever drank. And I want more of it. And that's the language that he uses when he talks about God. So faith is starting to align your desires to taste him and see that he's good. You say, well, when I taste sin, it tastes good. Well, no, it actually does it. Because when you taste sin, it only tastes good in the immediate moment. But

But, you know, go out there and just pull off a big drunk. And, yeah, you'll have fun for a little bit. But the next day you're like, man, why did I do that? And so, you know, think about someone who just says, I'm going to go chase unbridled pleasure.

You're going to end up in a position in life where you're going to have tasted all that that has to offer and realize this is not good. In fact, I'm taking someone to rehab tomorrow who spent the last 10 years of their life addicted to methamphetamines and Xanax and all kinds of other stuff. And they're at a place where they pursued umbrital pleasure. And they're like, I've tasted it. And I'm like, I don't know.

And I'm miserable. Help. So that's sin. Sin takes you that way. And then when you, faith takes you in the direction where you actually participate in the life of God. And so you think, well, what is the gospel offering us? Is it just freedom from the guilt of my sin? Although that's part of that.

It's way more than that, though. It's also a freedom from the desire to sin progressively over time because I start to taste and see that God's good and that he's the source of life. And that's where the word transformation is inserted, that we look back at our life when we walk with him and we should be seeing a great deal of transformation.

formation, meaning that I'm not the man that I used to be. I'm not the human that I used to be. I'm actually a different person with different desires. Now, my desires are progressively becoming more aligned with who Christ is because I'm participating in his divine nature. And ultimately, that is what God is revealing to us when we aim at the end point of life. The end point of life is Christ himself. It's God himself. It's the triune God.

That's where life is. And so we want to move in that direction. I think that's the whole point of what he said here in Ephesians. Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess my hundredth mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, honestly, when I started this, I thought I only have to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry. I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at mint mobile.com slash save whenever you're ready for

I wanted to also reference, you know, when I read that 1 Peter 1 and 2, you know what came after that whole long section I read?

This idea about us being living stones, you know, 2-5, being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood. And you remember— It's a lot like Ephesians 2, right? Look, almost identical. In verse 9 of chapter 2, you're a chosen people, royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God. So what I'm saying is it's the same pattern of each individual person

who comes to Christ, them growing up into the whole. Because look, it's hard to get along with people. But I thought about that with infants. Well, they don't do well alone. You know what happens to them when they're alone for a long period of time? They die. They're dependent on

on other people or other powers. And so we come to Christ, but it also makes you realize that you're going to have to have a lot of humility and patience. That's why he started that section because we have a lot of babies, right?

In Christ, which is a good thing. Yeah. And both of those metaphors, Jay, whether it's a building that comes to life because it's people and the Holy Spirit is housed in people, or it's this idea of a living, breathing body. Both of those, to Zach's point earlier, are pictures of life.

And there's something right about that. I had it last night. We were having dinner and there was a guy there and he said, I had a friend of mine. He's obviously on the left. And then he started giving me his arguments because he was having a hard time debating and discussing abortion with him. But it was interesting. All the things from the other guy were all about law.

That is that to your point earlier. Yeah. And so, you know, well, if you had this scenario and would you want to put this 18 year old who who deserves to go to prison? You know, it was all about legal arguments about whether it was right or wrong to have an abortion. And so I listened to the whole thing and I said, well, to be honest with you, none of that really matters to me. What matters is, is it right or is it wrong?

And it's obvious to me that it's wrong. Therefore, I don't think we should do that. I think we should figure out ways to not do something that's wrong. I've made that same argument many times. And I make the same argument who believe babies are born into sin. I say, well, you sound like the abortionist. Either God creates life or he doesn't. Either decisions are made later. But God does not create nor tempt abortion.

anyone with evil. I mean, there's clear passages of that. And he wouldn't use an analogy if it was a negative thing to start with. Well, if it was a bad idea to be born, why is being born again a good thing? It just makes no sense. It's just heresy. It's the same reason why we're against genocide of people, because just because someone is born of any race doesn't mean that you get to decide to stamp them out.

You don't get to make that class wrong. You can't do that. It's hard. It's hard to make the argument, though, if you just if you stick with the right and wrong. I think you have to move towards also what is true and what is false. It's true because we're moved and we make decisions in our life.

based on what our imagination and what we imagine the good life to be. And so if you were to go and look at the, for, for I get an example, you go look at all the statistics, you know, one of our, our sponsors is covenant eyes. You look at the statistics on porn addiction and porn consumption in the church. Um, it's, I mean, it's not like, Oh wow. People that go to church and believe in God and have submitted themselves to Christ. They don't, they don't do that. They don't struggle with that. They do.

And the question is, why? Do they not know? We know. I mean, if you're listening to this podcast, you think, do I struggle with things in my life that I sinned? I'm not doing these things because I don't know they're wrong.

It's that there's something else underneath that that's more powerful than what I know, and it's what I want. And so I do what I do because I want to do it. And what I want to do is primarily formed by my imagination. And so what the Holy Spirit is actually revealing to us is,

is he's trying to give us an imagination for what the good life actually is. And so when we think about these moral issues, if we just approach it as right and wrong, then there's not really any real power there to overcome whatever it is. We have to root it in. Is this true?

Is what this is promising to deliver in my life and what I'm being tempted to believe, is it actually true? If I pursue this and I watch this on this screen, is this going to fulfill me? And the answer is no, it's not. They would argue, you think it's true. So that's what I was going to, I was like, Al said right, wrong. You're like, is it true or false? But I'm saying, does it look like Jesus? We all have the red letters.

Does it look like Jesus? Right. It's like if you said, was Jesus looking at women inappropriately? No. You don't see that anymore. Because he's the ultimate truth. I mean, he's the ultimate truth. But that's the thing. I mean, to Al's point, if somebody comes and says, well, I got my truth, that is really where the line is drawn there. Jesus says, I am the truth and the way.

Correct. And the life. So you kind of see all three of those things encompassing that one statement. And obviously when we are debating these things with people who don't believe in Jesus, then we're having a hard time getting on the same page. I think that's why you have to ask questions because we're going to get into the con men later, which I believe when he gets to chapter five,

he starts talking about, you know, among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality or of any kind of greed or impurity. And it goes on to say, for such a man as an idolater, in verse 5, immoral, impure, greedy person. But it's not just in your face. It's, you know, when it says of any kind of impurity or a hint of sexual immorality, what does that mean?

Well, it's doing something like this, our verses are saying, very craftily or deceitful. It's like these types of introductions to things that you can rationalize. It's like, well, this is not really, see, I mean, there's nothing wrong with this. And I think that's where he's going. So whatever they were being led to follow, it was all done in a deceitful way. Right.

And I mean, I can't think off the top of my head of the different ways people rationalize sexual immorality or greedy or impurity, but it's happening on a daily basis to all of us. Because you're deceived. You think it's right. You think it's good. So, I mean, I'm a believer when people stand before God, they're all going to justify whatever they've done. Yeah, when you begin to know...

You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. He mentions three times, speak the truth in love. You heard of him. You were taught in him in accordance with the truth that's in Jesus. Now, I'm glad you brought that up, Phil, because I had that in my notes. In verse 20, I think people don't know what to do with that.

Because he's talking about behavior now. Yep. And he's attaching knowing Christ with how you behave. Yeah, what you look like. That's where I was going with Zach in my argument with that. He has to be the standard. We're out of time. We have to continue. We're out of time, but we're at a great point to jump back in on our next time of shame. So we'll see you then.

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