Ep 972 | Mia Officially Takes Over Mia Moo, Jase Denies Being ‘Empty Nesters’ & the Abortion Debate
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I am unashamed. What about you? So, Jace, welcome to Unashamed, by the way. You're welcoming me? Noel, I was just about to start a conversation. I realized I hadn't said anything to our audience. Actually, you know, I was just a guest that showed up and never left.

That's true. Because when this podcast first started, this is... And I mentioned it maybe a time or two, but it's been a long time. It was originally going to be just me and... Well, it was just going to be Dad. Because he was doing a show for Blaze. But then I was thinking, well, man, I don't know. Dad's just going to be just...

you know, preaching every episode. So I thought maybe I ought to just like help host it and maybe kick some ideas to dad. And then dad said, well, I want to have Dan on there. Cause Dan will bring some interesting stuff. So it was me. It was me, dad and Dan. And we did about 20 episodes. I call them the lost episodes. Oh, really? Did they ever air? They never aired. And because in the interim, we weren't, we didn't have a contract. We were just seeing how it would work. I'd never done a podcast before. And,

And I was temporary too, Jays. I was just like – I was producing it, so I was just like sitting in to like see if we could get something going. And then the next thing I heard Zach say, well, we got Jays on board. I said, really? And then I started getting excited. I said, well, this might be pretty good because –

We could have some arguments. We could have some fun. You know what's funny? So that's how it became. Dan got booted, and Jay was in, and Unashamed was born. I need to apologize to him. I didn't know I took his place. He took his spot. But I did the first podcast, and I didn't know what a podcast was.

I really didn't either. I wasn't sure exactly what this was. Yeah. And when I told dad, I said, dad, they want us to go 48 minutes. And dad said, what? People don't listen to us for 48 minutes. He said, we may get 20 minutes out of them. That's all we'll get. You know, thinking like a preacher. I've seen a common theme here. Because when they introduced the idea of us being on TV on a reality show,

You know, the duck people. Yep. I think me and Phil were the two voices louder than most that said, that'll never work. No one will ever watch that. 22 minutes of family frivolity. But they did. They did watch it. And it set the platform for this. So what I was going to say was, so I'm driving out here today. And this happens sometimes. I was curious if it ever happens to you, Jase.

And so we've been driving the road out here since we were teenagers. I mean, when I got my license, dad, you pulled over up there at the mill in the Safeway parking lot. You got out. You didn't say anything. You just got out and walked around to my side of the truck at the time I was 14.

And you just nodded like, all right, now's the time. I don't know if that's how you were taught, but that's how you taught me. So I just got in behind that old blue Chevrolet pickup with the gear shifter, remember, on the steering column. And I kicked it a couple of times and it went dead. And you were like, no, you got to ease the clutch out. You can't just pop it out. So I eased it out. We took off down the road and I figured out the gears. And I've been driving this stretch of road ever since, right?

And now we're talking about, you know, 45 years ago. But every time I come out here now, sometimes I'll just have like a flashback memories like because we grew up here. Like you raised us here. This was our home. I was a little older than Jay, so I had been at other places. But pretty much for you and Willie and Jeff, and this is it. I mean, this was your home.

Growing up place. This is where we were. We were trained. This is where we were taught. This is where we learned how to forage and hunt and fish and all the stuff we got to do. So you get those ideas from time to time, like.

Wow. You know, it's just like, look at all that's happened over the course of 45 years. We were raised up to be the men we were. Now you and I are grandfathers. I could be a great-grandfather. Well, I realize, you know, somebody came up with a slogan that once your kids grow up, I guess, and, you know, my last natural-born kid,

is now over 21. And so they came up with this term. They say, well, you're now an empty nester. And I'm here to tell you that's not true. That's never true. Because what I've learned is as a human being, you know, we got a responsibility when it comes to kids, especially as members of the kingdom of God.

You know, I turned to Matthew 18 because I know we have a guest today and we're going to talk about, you know, kids and helping kids and life. Yeah. And because kids, you know, they got to be trained. And I, you know, my daughter who is now she's the head of the Miamou, which what that is. And we have that event coming up just in a couple of weeks.

And so what we do, we call it the Mia Moo, which is a nickname that Willie actually gave my daughter Mia. Yeah. There's no meaning there. He used to just call her Mia Moo. And it kind of stuck.

Willie's like dad like that. He has nicknames that stick. You know, what's amazing is she was born, you know, with a craniofacial issue, cleft lip and palate, which one out of 800 kids are born with that condition in some capacity. Granted, hers was kind of on the more severe side, and the kids we help are on the more severe side. But it was her idea when she was eight or nine years old,

We had done an event because Missy and I had been doing events for the last 20 years. And she was like, when am I going to tell my story? And I was like, well, you're eight or nine, you know, however old she was, like you're eight years old. You're still, I was thinking your story is developing here. You know, I was like, I tell you what, write your story and we'll, we'll, we'll get back to you. But when she wrote her story, uh,

because i just thought she'll forget this or you know and then i read it and my wife read it of course we both cried i was like yeah this story needs to be told her perspective on it which led to you know now years later she's heading up an organization where we help kids with similar conditions that she had and what's interesting jace was the episode on the little duck show

where she was going to do her first speech and you guys read it. And it happened to be the episode that was all our family was here. It's the only one where our whole, all our cousins were here. A lot of our uncles and aunts. And that was the wrestling episode too. That member of the one we did out there,

Y'all read her first speech on that episode, which was touching and powerful. Powerful thing. Well, so just last week, she sent me a text and said, Dad, for the newsletter, because she does a newsletter, I'm not sure how often for the Miamou group. And she said, I need you to write a little article on your favorite part of the Miamou Fun Day, which we call it Fun Day, but it's a whole weekend. Yep.

And, uh, which like I said, it's coming up and we've been doing it for years, I guess. And it's evolved, especially with her assuming the, uh, you know, being in charge of it. And by the way, it's, it was way better when she took over.

And I think it's just because she has lived the life that all these kids are. And she's one of the older members of it. And just the wisdom and experience and understanding and how the day is set up, the fun day. And then we do a little worship service, which is a volunteer thing for the families because not all these families.

Families are believers in Christ. But last year was the first time that all the families that came and we invite all the families we help, which is almost 200 families now. And we connect them to each other, which I think is the real beauty of what we do. But.

I think last year was the first time that all of the families came to the worship day on Sunday morning at the hotel, which was awesome. And most, if not all, you know, there's tears of joy and there's a connection there. But when she asked me that, it took me back to my childhood. Yeah. Because I've always, you know, in my roots, in my DNA, have been a loner.

And I was real shy as a kid. You probably remember that up until I came to Christ. And so that very question was always a fear of mine, because if somebody said, you know, what are your thoughts on something? That means I had to speak in public, which was probably my biggest fear. And I mean, in public was if there's any other human being.

Standing in the earshot. Where two or three are gathered together. I was the person in school that I was like, do not ask me a question. Because if you do, I'm leaving. I do not want to answer. And now we can't shut you up. Look what God does. It kind of hit me in that question. Here's my daughter, 21. What is your favorite thing?

thing because I'm like my always my initial reaction to that is oh boy I don't want to screw this up yep and so uh but what I did was I wrote a couple and she's like just one paragraph piece of cake whatever and

So, you know, I found myself struggling with writing that and because it's so moving to me. So what I ended up with writing was after I told her, I was like, this reminds me of my childhood about, you know, my fear of basically speaking because I was I was shy.

And realizing that it's a lonely, that's a lonely existence when you have that fear or being shy. And kind of all teenagers, I think, go through it. You know, it's their number one issue is what other people think of. Exactly. But I wind up kind of saying that. And then what I went with is what happens at the Miamou is all these buses pull up.

that we ran out to bring them here. I mean, we pay their whole trip to come be a part of this. Because you got to remember all these families are, when I'm talking about in the battle,

They're constantly going through surgeries, multiple surgeries. And the reason we only have an average of 30 to 40 families show up because all the other families we help are usually having surgeries at the time of recovery. Because it's just their whole life, their whole kid's life, yeah. But when those buses pull up and those families get out, especially the families that it's the first time to participate in this,

There is a look on their faces and a sense that I get that there's a saying, which was kind of the title of my little paragraph for the newsletter. You can see it. And what their bodies are saying is we're not alone. Yeah. And it is overwhelming. They all become emotional because here they are trapped just like my daughter was.

All these years of being different, looking different, going through all these pain, the pain and suffering. And it almost is the equivalent to what I've learned through counselors of like military guys in wars, PTSD kind of thing. You're recognizing the perishable nature of yourself and having other people suffer all around you. There's so much loneliness of recovering when other kids are in school, you're

you know, somewhere in a bed coughing up blood. I mean, it's just a lifestyle of this. And that recognition of we're not alone is a very powerful tool. And so it's really the first thing is my favorite part of that. And even though it's a little awkward because a lot of families don't know each other as the weekend evolves and it becomes kind of a community of, you know, we're in this thing together.

It's just a powerful transformation with all these people. I love it. You got a text for us, Dad? What are you going to read? Since you're our patriarch, you get to close us with a text. In the book of Ephesians, a lot of Bible verses cover husbands' wives and how they should behave. And children. And children. Ephesians 5, be very careful then how you live.

not as unwise, but as wise. These are parents making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. Well, if you look at our current situation, as far as what days we're in, therefore do not be foolish in the middle of all this, but understand what the Lord's will is. You don't get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. You say, so stay sober. Give rich things.

which returns. You just make it a way to live. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, sing and make music in your heart. You just start singing away, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. All these things we're told on behavior,

is make God your focus and what you shoot for and talk about him, sing about him, put it in their hearts. I love it. Because if you don't do that, you'll have children who know nothing about this. There's been a push in the country of the United States of America. They literally ran that kind of

They've run it out of there. That's exactly right. It's not there. No. And we wonder what we're reaping. You reap what you sow, Al. What is produced has been something bad. So we're about to take a break. Dad, we don't tell you enough, but thank you and Mom for raising us up to believe what you just read. We do appreciate it. Now we do the same with our kids and grandkids. We're going to take a break. We've got a very special guest that's going to join us on another show, so we'll tell you about her after the break.

So J.S. Leis and I have been had quite the run here of speaking at Pregnancy Center Fundraisers. I think we had six events spread out over five weeks. And one thing I can say is there's a lot of enthusiasm out there, which is a blessing for the cause, you know, for standing up for life, for helping young women, for helping young men. So it's really kind of encouraging to see people still in the fight. Yeah.

Yeah. Now, look, there's a debate in our country and you get it. People don't want the government involved in personal decisions, you know, but at the same time, there is a need and an intensity to preserve and protect life, especially this defenseless.

Exactly. That's our good friends at Preborn are involved in this battle as well. And they're really there, their network of clinics to be able to support women, support life. And so when you support them, Preborn, you offer life and love to mothers in crisis and the at-risk babies. When you introduce these mothers to their children through ultrasound, they're

the chance of that baby's life doubles, which is what we're looking for, right? Each life-saving ultrasound costs just $28, but pre-born can't do it without us, the pro-life community.

Please give your best gift today and sponsor as many ultrasounds as you can. All gifts are tax deductible. And if you have the means, they would love for you to consider a leadership gift, which saves babies in a big way. Your tax deductible donation of $5,000 will sponsor Preborn's entire network for 24 hours, and that helps rescue 200 babies. So

There's been great investment into life. Let's join together, help mothers choose life to donate. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 keyword baby. Or you can go to preborn.com slash unashamed. Welcome back to unashamed. Jace, we've had what we call an upgrade, at least in terms of beauty.

We traded dad for Heather Lawless. Heather, thank you for coming to Unashamed. And Lisa as well. And so it's always good to have you back in the house, Lisa. So yeah, I'd call that a beauty upgrade. Yep. And we didn't.

I guess I didn't realize that we met before. We have, like 10 years ago. 10 years ago, which sounds terrible because you're like, how could you forget, Jace? I'm sure. It's okay. I do a lot of events, and so we had an event in a little place called Idaho, which is where you're from. Yeah, Lewiston, Idaho, at a casino called Beards and Babies. Yeah.

That's it. That's all the podcast. That's all we had. I mean, can we just walk out now? Because that's to drop the mic. How did I forget? Beards and Babies. That was a good title. I'm a genius. And we met at a casino. I did an event there. You remember being there? I mean, I know you didn't. I didn't at first. But then when she told me the backstory...

I could never forget this because I flew to your event and y'all provided a jet. Yeah, one of our major donors, Peters and Keats, provided a beautiful private jet for you. It was awesome. I don't remember that. What happened was... It wasn't in your contract. Yeah, that's true. Another event... He's a much bigger deal than me. Another event emerged in Idaho and they were kind of piggybacking your event. They're like, hey, you're in the state.

So after you do that event, come over. And I was like, well, I'm already in Idaho. Well, somewhere the travel arrangements got lost and confused because y'all had a very nice jet. And then when I did your event, they provided...

They said a jet, but it was a crop duster with literal duct tape on the wings. And I shared this story on a podcast. Yeah, the first time Alan talked about us, you shared it. And I said, he should have said that it wasn't us that made him take the duct tape plane. Y'all had the jet. We had the ice plane. And it actually took me longer to go through.

across Idaho in that crop duster than it did for me going to Louisiana to Idaho on the gym. And so, but I survived and it was, it was actually good because, I mean, my assistant was not happy about getting in that crop duster and it, cause it was a little, it was really a two seater and three people got in it. Cause she was just like,

I'm not sure I can do this. I remember being on the runway and she's like, I'm not sure I can get in this plane. I was like, well, stay here. I'll go. Yeah. But I was like, hey, we're going to put your faith to the test right here. And we did. So Heather is the director of Reliance Ministries. Mm-hmm.

And which also includes the Reliance Center. Is that how that works? Yeah. So in Idaho, in Lewiston. Yeah. I founded Reliance Ministries and we have Reliance Center, which is a holistic reproductive health clinic, otherwise known as a pregnancy center, a men's program, a mobile unit. And then we're getting ready to open our maternity house called Reliance House.

And then we'll have Braveheart Coffee, a coffee shop that the women that live in the maternity home will work in. And you guys are getting close to that. I want to mention this because as we go through our conversation, it's relianceministries.com slash give. If in our conversation, you guys want to help these guys and what they're doing, which is amazing. So I'll tell you our experience with Heather J. So Heather,

We come in, we'd never been to Idaho before, which is beautiful, by the way. I mean, when we were driving and we flew into Washington, I think, and then drove, yeah, drove over to you guys. And we were so high coming in. I mean, you're like on a mountain and you're looking way down there at the bottom. You're like, there's a city, but it looks like it's 150 miles away. And we, we switched back down that mountain. It's a beautiful community around the river.

Is it the Snake River? Snake River and then Clearwater, they meet right there at the Confluence. You realize I've ducked. I've been to Idaho many times. Did you know that? I did. We used to duck hunt there all the time. We took several trips. I remember here. I've never been. I could live there. It's beautiful. Because unlike, I mean, I'm getting into what, you know, my passion here about duck hunting. The reason I love it, though, is most places you go duck hunting,

You have to like prepare the place. You turn it into a wetland or whatever. But in Idaho, maybe I shouldn't say this, but you can just hunt the Snake River. And you just go along the river, put out some decoys, whether there were ducks there or not. And they fly the river and they just come in and you shoot them. It was just amazing. Yeah, and such a beautiful setting. So we go in and we're at the event. Lisa and I are speaking.

And I'm hoping you remember this because I'm going to ask you to say what I said. So we were sitting there and usually a director will give like a report on the pregnancy center from the year before. We did this, we did that. And you were doing this.

But then you went into your speech and I leaned over to you. And what did I say? What are we here for? I mean, I've never said that before. I'm just because you're here. But I really said that. At least I was like, why are we here? She's amazing. So just hearing you speak your passion for life, you got into a little bit of your story, which I want you to tell today on the podcast, because you

It motivated us that night to be like, okay, we got to step up our game here because Heather has set the stage. But it was great. I've loved it ever since. You now speak – you're with the same bureau we are, and so you speak around the country. But tell us a little bit about your story.

Kind of what got you into this deal about being pro-life? Yeah. So my mom actually, she had a kidney transplant the day after she graduated from high school. And the doctors told her she could not do two things. They said, you can never go into the medical field and you can never get pregnant.

And so she went to nursing school and got pregnant. She didn't like rules. And when she- Jace, that sounds like you. Well, what was their problem with going into the medical field? Because she had had a kidney transplant. And so her immune system was super compromised. And so they knew that her getting any kind of infection could compromise the kidney transplant. Her body could reject the kidney.

I'm not very smart, so I'm going to have to clarify a lot, you know, but if that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. So she, and then she got pregnant. And so her family was really upset about the pregnancy and said, you know, we have sacrificed a whole lot, our whole entire lives, uh,

with your illness and your transplant to be able for you to live. And now you're pregnant. So there was an abortion appointment scheduled to take my life and my mom didn't go. She chose life for me. And so subsequently after that, she got pregnant again. And the baby was, the doctor told her the baby was diagnosed with trisomy. And so my mom had an abortion and

And then growing up, she had 16 miscarriages and I watched my mom suffer through loss after loss after loss. And I was the only child. And do I think that that was because of her abortion? You know, I don't know, but I believe that I was an only child because of some of those decisions.

you know, my mom died. It'll be actually 14 years ago next week that my mom passed away. And before she passed away, I remember her telling me one time we were having kind of a heated discussion about being pro-life and she kind of got in my face and she said, you'll never know what that feels like to be faced with that decision. And I did what I thought I had to do. And I chose life for you and you're the greatest joy I've ever had. But, you know, I had to choose differently after you. And so,

I knew I was pro-life, but then I had a crazy life. I was pretty promiscuous as a child, as a teenager, and then got married once.

I got to a pastor, actually. We lived in Louisiana. We lived in Shreveport. I went to Louisiana Tech for about five minutes. I decided I hated school. Is that when you met Stephanie? Yeah. Then I went to beauty school in Shreveport, and that marriage lasted a very short time. And then I was dating a guy that I knew I should break up with, but the night I was going to break up with him, he asked me to marry him. And that night we got pregnant with my daughter, and I chose life for my daughter.

And then that marriage also ended in divorce. So I've had a very speckled past with that. But then I met my husband. We've married 18 years now. Third time's a charm. And he's here today. He's here today, yeah. He's the greatest blessing God's ever given me besides my daughter and his kids. But his oldest, Kendra, is...

I was working for a pregnancy center. I was the development director at a pregnancy center. And my heart was just getting turned on to the pro-life movement. And I was getting fully immersed in it. And I knew that this was my passion. But our daughter was, you know, she just graduated from high school. She's making some decisions we didn't love. And so we kind of had some tough love and we hadn't talked for a while.

And my office manager called and she said, "Your daughter's down here and she needs to talk to you." And I thought, well, that's weird. And so I thought, well, she's either gonna tell she's getting married or she's pregnant. And so I walked down the stairs and she's standing there with a guy who I'd never met. And I thought, okay, for sure, she's gonna tell us she's getting married or she's pregnant.

And so I walked up to her. She said hi. I gave her a hug. He said hi. I shook my hand, and he was kind of white as a ghost. And she said, we have something to tell you. And I said, what is it? And she said, I'm pregnant. And I said, I'm going to be a grandma? And she said, what? And I said, well, didn't you just tell me you're pregnant? I'm going to be a grandma. And she said, you're not mad? And I said, no.

Well, I'm not going to throw you a party for the circumstances, but this is a baby we're talking about. So no, I'm not mad. I'm excited. This is amazing. And I said, when's your ultrasound? And she said, right now. And I said, what? And she said, I came yesterday when you were on your lunch break and had a pregnancy test. And then my staff told me, which is great for HIPAA.

But we went up and did the ultrasound, and she thought she was six weeks pregnant, and she was 16 weeks pregnant. Wow. So I'm sitting at the top of her head as she's getting her ultrasound. She just keeps looking up at me as tears just running down her eyes. And she said, you're not mad. You're not mad. And I said, look at that baby. How can I be mad about this baby? And so we got done with the ultrasound, and they're wiping the jelly off her belly, and she's, you know,

Pulling her shirt down and getting ready to leave and she said okay you can't tell dad and I said well That's not how this works You have to tell your dad and she said okay come with me and I said, okay. I'll come with you You know, there's a lot of songs about the heart. I've never heard a song about the liver, you know, and there there really should be I think liver problems is at least top five

On vital organ issues and the older we get, we need to make sure the vitals are functioning properly. More liver sounds. That's what we got to tell all of our musical guests that come on the podcast. And you're right. It affects everything. The latest data from the American Heart Association indicates that adults with fatty liver are

have a three and a half time more likely chance to have heart failure than those who don't. The American Liver Foundation says that 100 million Americans have fatty liver. So obviously it's a huge impact on a lot of people. And that's because everything gets thrown at your liver. It's kind of this filter system for your body. If you have a sluggish fatty liver, it makes you gain weight. It makes you lose energy.

And so your liver needs to have 500 key functions that it does every day. So it needs to be healthy. There is a solution, Liver Health Formula, a product that I take. Zach has taken it as well.

It's an all-natural supplement, which includes 11 clinically proven botanicals that help recharge and protect your liver. It brought my liver enzyme numbers down, so it does work. If you're looking to ignite your fat-burning metabolism, boost your energy, and transform how you look and feel, try Liver Health Formula.

So I went with her. I ran upstairs to my office real first and I picked up the phone and I called my husband and I said, Kendra's coming to tell you she's pregnant. Be nice and hung up.

And so I don't even know what he said after that because I hung up the phone. So she got in her car. I got in my car, followed her over to his office, which was... You wanted to prep him a little. Yeah, a little bit because he didn't know. She probably just said, Dad, I'm coming to see you. And I wanted him to take a beat. So it was a quick, quick beat. So we pulled up to his office and we walked...

I stayed in my car and she walked up to her dad. So my husband was facing me and my daughter and her boyfriend were facing away from me. And I watched her say something to him and he reached forward and shook her boyfriend's hand. And then I watched her say something else to him. And I watched him step forward and envelop her in the biggest hug that I've ever seen. And I watched her shoulders drop and she kind of sunk into her dad's arms. And I...

I watched all the worries that she had just go away because she found that grace and that mercy that we talked about for all those unpaired pregnancies in the arms of her father. And he offered that unconditional love. And the first thing he said to her was, I'm going to be a papa, which is the first thing I said. And, you know, that was...

Such a beautiful vision to me of what God's grace look like and how these women with unplanned pregnancies have to know that they're loved first. And so that's really what lit us on fire for this. And then I left that pregnancy center and we opened Reliance Ministries. And it's been, we just celebrated six years and God's doing amazing things. But Carter is now...

he's seven and a half and is the greatest blessing that ever has happened to us. And we have two other grandbabies now from Kendra. And every time I tell that story, my husband cries. But, you know, it's just a beautiful depiction of the way it's supposed to look like because every pregnancy deserves a congratulations no matter how it's run. And what you just described, when I heard you tell your story the first time, because, you know, I was a pastor for many years and the biggest struggle was

was trying to deal with people in difficult situations especially unplanned pregnancies and and not figuring out how to show grace and be there and to be celebratory about a baby and so and I look back on it and I realize I wish I had heard stories like yours way earlier to be way more graceful because we weren't and weren't sure what to do we didn't want to do baby blessings in public because we then we're saying we're support bad you know you get into these conversations and

And so what I realize is no matter how a baby gets in a womb, it's a baby that needs to be celebrated and a mom that needs to be shown grace no matter what in going forward in a life. And so what you have done and a lot of other PRCs, at least I do around the country, is

gives us hope that this is the way forward. That's why I always say, unfortunately, what you guys are doing at Reliance and a lot of other centers, that's the front line in the life battle. The churches, unfortunately, are much further back. Not saying we don't have things to contribute.

But we're sometimes afraid to be on the front line because, well, what are we, you know, I mean, there was an immoral act that happened here. What are we going to do about this? As if people don't sin every single day. It's like we miss the idea that we're all sinners. We all fall short. And a baby is not a consequence. A baby is a gift from God. It's a blessing. It's a blessing. It is a blessing. And I always say this whenever I speak. I say, if you believe that God is the author of life, he authors life and he ends life, right? He's the author of life and the finisher of life. Right.

He authors life. And I say this and people like they're getting, they get shocked, but I say he authors life in a marriage bed. He authors life in the back of a pickup truck and he authors life during a, during an awful sexual assault. He authors all of that life. None of that is a surprise to him. And I think that people take that for granted because they think, well, not, you know, we're celebrating the sin. No, we're not. We're celebrating the life that God authored. That's right.

And then the only way to deal with sin and people's shortfalls is to first have them understand who Jesus is. And then we can get about better decisions as we go along. But as parents or grandparents, like you said, we have to figure out how to introduce Jesus into the setting. One of the things that Lisa and I do, and I just started doing this recently. A lot of times we get asked to do the ask at the end of a banquet ceremony.

And it just as some other people may do this as well. But it hit me one day. I thought the creator of the universe could have chosen any way he wanted to to appear on this earth. He could have been fully grown. He could have been however he wanted to decide to become a human being. He could have done it because he created everything. He decided to come through the womb.

Right. Right.

And so to me, it's like the best reason to be pro-life because who knows what some child, it won't be the son of God coming again, but who knows what they're capable of doing once they come into this world. So it just struck me that out of all the things we see about in the Bible, that's exactly the way God became flesh. Well, the rumor was true. I guarantee all the religious people.

We're like, oh yeah, God made you pregnant? Yeah, right. I mean, they... Oh, she was shamed. You know she was shamed. Had the rocks, you know, because that's probably why you didn't hear much out of Joseph. I mean...

I mean, which you're talking about an unsung hero in the Bible because God chose for his reputation to just be absolutely destroyed. Right. And he had enough compassion that he was going to keep it quiet, you know, and try to like, okay, we're just do this quietly. And, you know, he, he had a concern for Mary, but he still thought I got to get away from this situation. I mean, like a lot of people do. Yeah. I mean, the,

This is real close to my heart. I mean, I've told about a little one that we welcomed into our family the last two and a half years. And it's a long story. But, you know, with this woman who my wife showed Jesus and tried and just didn't seem like it worked. I mean, she went on her way because she wouldn't take a drug test. And so then a couple of years later, you know, we get this call and have this baby born.

signed over to us you know they're asking is this legit or is this woman crazy but uh since that happened you know we're about three years into it but it's really had a profound uh effect on us just from realizing that we made a few decisions in a place in her life which sowed this seed of i'm gonna have this baby and uh because in her past it just wouldn't have been an option and uh

So now we're seeing this boy grow and seeing her grow as a daughter of the Almighty now. And I don't know, Missy and I have both said we've had so many dreams. And, you know, you wake up in the middle of the night and you think about it because you see all the little subtleties in his personality. And I keep thinking this boy shouldn't have been here. You know, he just shouldn't have been here. And I'm

Somehow or another, that's what I'm wanting to figure out in a message to get to the world. It's like once a baby is aborted, they're just... That's it. It was...

Call it what you want, tissue or a woman's, you know, right. All these arguments, you know, I think they call it now reproductive rights, you know. Women's health. But, you know, when you see like in your case, it doesn't shock me that you turned out to be a pro-life advocate because you're looking back on it thinking, well, I almost wasn't here. I mean, and so I'm wondering how in our messaging process,

Because it seems like we're losing the battle from every poll I see, even in our political climate. You know, there's six to be a president. But people are seeing the polls that I'm seeing.

They're more in favor of the most radical view of abortion. And I'm like, well, what is wrong with our messaging? Are we not having these moments like I'm describing where I'm seeing a kid who, for all intensive purposes, was pretty fortunate to be born?

But I'm just seeing him on a daily basis thinking, man, what a wonder, you know, what an awesome little guy. I mean, I'd give my life for this kid. I mean, that's how far we've gone in our relationship. ♪

You know, Jase, we talked about it recently. I was up in Black Mountain, and one of the things that I was hoping to do is get my hands on some of those goldbacks that Zach has been flashing on the podcast. But unfortunately, a hurricane showed up, and I wasn't able to get the job done. Yeah, and there's a lot of more serious matters. But, you know,

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What do y'all think? I mean, you can go first, but then Heather can just the idea of a national political issue, which abortion is that we seem to be losing. Jason's right. I mean, it seems to be tipping elections the other way, whereas people like us, I was sitting and watching. I think, well, I don't care who says they're going to be this way. It's a human rights issue for me. I could never say any weeks are OK. So I don't know. Go ahead. Well, I think that, you know,

I think a lot of people have believed the lie, just like you said, that it is just tissue. I think they don't think past the moment. You know, you got to think about, well, what about a year from now? What about two years from now? But they can't do it. When a woman is in this position, and most of the time it's girl, not woman, but whenever she's in this position, she's afraid. She's usually alone.

She doesn't know what abortion is. She has no idea. Just like you didn't. Right. I had no idea. And most of the time she's being pushed into this decision. And so it's up to us as PRCs, as people who speak around the country, to get this out and to tell people, to tell these women who are in these desperate situations that

that there is another way. God provides another way. And that's what all these PRCs are there for, is to help you in that moment of need. But I also think that a lot of these people who are totally pro-choice, or what I would say is pro-abortion,

So much of it is guilt and shame in their own life. Absolutely. Because they have either done this, they participated in it in some way, or they've pushed somebody to do this in some way. And so it's just guilt and shame. And if they say this is wrong, if they ever get to that point and say, oh, my goodness, this was a life. Well, then they couldn't live with them. Then they got to deal with it. Yeah. Exactly. You got to face it head on. What do you think? Yeah. Well, we...

We volunteered with an organization called Loveline. Abby Johnson started Loveline, and Abby's on our board, and I'm great friends with her. And we were helping this woman from Tacoma, Washington. So we drove over to Tacoma. We had filled a baby registry for her, so we had an entire SUV full of gifts, and drove over to meet her. And before she started with Loveline, she was getting ready to have her seventh abortion.

And four of them had been late-term abortions. So 24 weeks, which, you know, babies are being born at 22 weeks now and are viable. And so she had had three, or three, excuse me, not four, three late-term abortions. And she said the third one

A late-term abortion is a three-day procedure. So the first day they administer an injection into the baby, and the baby dies. And then that evening she goes home, and that baby is deceased in her womb. And she said, the last time I did it, I remember laying in bed. She's sobbing, telling us this story. She said, I remember laying in bed with a dead baby in my belly. And she said, and I remember thinking,

how is this okay? She said, why isn't there anybody that fights for women like me to know that this isn't okay? And I looked at her and I said, I will fight until I die for people to know that this is not okay. But what she said was that, do you think, she said, I think people think that I'm just a monster, that I waited this long so I could end the life of a 24-week-old baby. And she said, it's not. It's because I thought, well, maybe...

Maybe he'll understand me and maybe daddy. Maybe he won't break up with me. Maybe my parents will help me financially. She kept hoping for the best and the best never came. So then this was her only option. And I think as a church, as the body of Christ, as we're believers of Christ, if we do not stand up in the face of transactional sex,

pornography, abortion, it all runs together. If we do not show these women their worth and their value, they will never understand the value of the life inside of them. And that's the thing is that this woman had felt like she had nothing to offer, nothing to give. She was relying on help from other people that never came. And so that resulted in almost seven abortions when she had this seventh baby.

She had a little boy, and she sent me pictures, and she said, I've dreamed of being a mom my whole entire life, and I finally feel like my heart is whole. And I know that her heart needed Jesus, but she felt like that baby completed a hole that was in her heart. And after that day, I thought, you know what? I'm never going to stop fighting, whether it's politically. But here's the thing is that being pro-life might be a political stance, but being pro-love is an action. And so being pro-love means...

showing these women that they have value. We were at March for Life this past year, and a reporter was asking me at March for Life, what is one thing that you wish that people could know? And I said, it's that the woman comes first. And he said, what is that supposed to mean? And I said, it means that we love the woman first.

We will love her and take care of her, and then we will worry about that baby. Because the woman's life, she needs to know that she has value. Otherwise, she's never going to understand the value of the life inside of her. And I think the opposite is true from the other side. They wouldn't admit it. They claim that they're looking out for the woman, but they're really not. No. Because they're hurting her emotionally, spiritually, always. ♪

Jace, are you much of a reader? Do you read a lot of, I mean, I know we do a lot of Bible study for the podcast, but do you like to just read magazines or books? Not really, but you took my answer because I do read the Bible a lot. But occasionally, if I'm around a coffee table, I'll pick one up and look at it. So I love to read. They say people don't read as much as they used to. I don't know if that's true or not, but our good friends at Blaze say,

a new quarterly magazine called Frontier. And I just happened to have it this past weekend and read through it. It's a very interesting

Beautiful magazine. It's very well done, has a lot of thoughtful commentary. The photography in it is really nice, you know, because we have a lot of journalists, obviously, that work at Blaze. And so and they're connected to a lot of people. Chris Rufo, who's one of my favorites, has an article in in their initial magazine, The Frontier. Mark Levin, Glenn Beck, of course.

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What you just said when I told my story, that's exactly what happened. I mean, I wish I'd have known that before. So we'd have probably fast forwarded that. But ultimately, it got to the mom, too. And, you know, we're working with her and helping her. And that value in her, it just came out of love from the situation. You know, that's why I said they're both great.

are doing great and fantastic. And I think that's part of the process, which is a rough process. I mean, I've shared this before. Of all the things I've been involved in, this has been the most stressful, dramatic, emotional, but it's been worth it because I truly see the love of God in this, you know, and just the, I mean, I don't want to use the word magical, but there's just something when you focus on a little life,

that you think wasn't gonna be here. Right. It just does something to you on a daily basis. It makes you appreciate

Life of everything and everyone. When you chase a little two-year-old around that you watch that ultrasound and you watch that woman say, I have an appointment scheduled next week to take this life. And then you chase that two-year-old around and listen to him laugh and look into his eyes. Your whole world changes because that is fruit. And that is a living, breathing, laughing, running around miracle that happened because we were bold enough.

and obedient to God what he's asking us to do. Oh, you're right. It's been a top five moment. I mean, outside of me coming to Christ and my own kids, just appreciating the gift of life. That's the same thing that happened with Zach and Jill too. Yeah. And we were just with Ruth. She's what?

Four now? Yeah, she'll be four this year. Yeah, I've actually shed more tears in the past two years, but they haven't been sad tears. They're just like, just out of appreciation. Which we talk about this, Heather, a lot on this podcast because we all, with Zach adopting her...

with Jason Missy and sort of fostering sort of with what they're doing, that the whole life deal is life. It's like beyond just we're on kind of the front end, so are you, getting this baby in the world. But then it's also what do we do then?

And the church has to be that body that is willing to do that and step up. Well, because we have to show grace and mercy. And if we don't show the grace and mercy to the women, they're not coming to us. Well, that's what's kept away from the church. That's exactly right. And they're willing to come to you because it's a sort of medical professional environment. So they feel like you got to listen to me. But they don't feel like they have a shot in the church. And to be honest, a lot of them, they don't. Well, that's what happened in our situation. It was unusual. You know, we got the baby.

The mom, you know, at the time was in prison. So, I mean, there was no loving the mom first, although she reached out to us, you know. But the initial meeting was great.

Filled with love. It was like, we're so happy that you made this decision, you know, and great. But she already felt that love, Jace, from Missy whenever she worked for Missy. Years ago. That's right. It had to have been something that made her choose it. That's it. That's what it is. Which is ultimately why we agreed to do this. Because I told Missy, I was trying to put it into words. I was like, you did something through the Spirit of God at some point years ago. Because she couldn't even remember how...

You know, last time she saw her, she had lots of women in that program. And then Missy looked up and she's like, when God throws you a pass, you catch it. I was like, that's it. But what I'm saying is then as he grew, he actually, in a weird way, allowed her heart to soften. Because all of a sudden, you know, it was a year before she even met her son.

A year later, she meets her son. Well, it had a profound impact on her, which granted Jesus...

the seed was planted there. But now all of a sudden she's like, well, this, this guy, he's awesome. He's great. But you know, she also found her value in herself in that year. Yeah. So she knew that she was loved in that year. Which makes such a big difference. Through her recovery. So we only got a few minutes left. I want you to tell Heather, so God has taken you, I mean, you're still doing your work in Idaho, but obviously he's expanding your,

your reach because of what he's grown you to do there, which is one of the reasons you're here in West Monroe is because you're helping out our local center life choices with ways to be able to do this better. Uh, tell, talk a little bit about that. And also I love that you had four, as I remember from your speech, you had kind of the four, you know,

I don't know how you put it. Pillars. Pillars. I was thinking pillars. Our model. Yeah. Give us that in our last few minutes. Yeah. So we have the first one is the pregnancy center, which we call a holistic reproductive health clinic because we're using those words from the other side. You know, we offer well-worn exams and pregnancy tests and STD tests and everything that Planned Parenthood does except for abortion and transgender drugs. Right. So we offer women's health care there.

And then our men's program, because we know that you can't teach a man to be a dad until he knows how to be a man first. Yep. And then. I'm liking this. Yeah. Because, you know, they teach men that they need to be big, strong men. And we teach men that they need to be men of strength. And there's a difference between those two. And so then Reliance House, which is the,

the third phase of our model. And that's the phase that we're on right now. And we're very close to reaching our goal to be able to purchase a campus that actually would be able to house our clinic and our house on the same campus. And then the fourth phase is brave, brave heart coffee. So many of the women that we serve have never had been able to keep a job. And so we want to offer some grace based employment so that they can work in the coffee shop and learn job skills. And we believe this model of, of,

Basically, we find out whatever the barrier to life is and we break it down. They want to have an abortion because they're on drugs. We get them off drugs. They want to have an abortion because they don't have any place to live. We give them a place to live. They're in an abusive relationship. We get them out. So we find what the barrier is. We break down the barrier. And we believe that this model can work.

All across the country And so We coach other centers On how to do things better They're all doing Incredible work So many centers Are doing amazing things And I'm not the expert I just love to You know We want to see people People love people And we say Our goal is to Love women Save babies And make heaven crowded So Yeah So we're doing that You've come a long way From beards and babies At the Yeah

You got to work with what you got. I still think that was a good title. It was a great title. It was. Well, the place was packed, as I recall. Yeah, it was the biggest event our town had ever had at that point. Yeah. So when we were there, you guys were rolling out your brand new road model. Mobile unit. Yeah, yeah, which was very exciting. Come all the way across the country, which was an amazing story. Yes. So someone asked recently, and I get asked this a lot, at least I do a lot of Q&As around events, and they say, what is the best thing about...

Getting to do what you do. You're on a television show. Now you get to go and speak. And I always say the same thing. It's the people we meet along the journey. And so you're one of those people, Heather, and we've been friends ever since. We cross paths from time to time, and Rick as well. And we're so grateful for what you're doing.

Just like us, it was more than you could do in one place. And so God decided to open some other doors for you, which is fantastic. Yeah, God's been. What you're getting to do now. So I want to mention again, RelianceMinistries.com slash give. If you guys want to contribute to them reaching their goal, which sounds like they're close. And you can be a part of that as well. So it's always good to see you. I love it. We're in this battle together. We are. Yeah. And we got to get the word out. Jason's right. We got to just keep, don't give up. Right. Because.

Because we're in this thing for the long haul because we're fighting for people that can't fight for themselves. So it's up to us to do it. And I love it because every time you see Heather, she has got a gigantic, beautiful smile on her face. Her eyes are lit up and she's just excited about life and about what she's doing. I just love it.

It's an honor to be obedient to God. Absolutely. We're glad to have you on Unashamed. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.