Breaking the Mold: Reimagining Entrepreneurship with Igor Vainshtein, Creator of the Entrepreneurpoly Board Game | S2 Ep. 179
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Additional terms apply. Service plan required for Apple Watch and iPad. Up to $2,000 value based on iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Founders Story. Today, we have a special guest who has been on this show. It might have been three years ago now, but Igor Vonstein. Igor, I want to say it was like three years ago when we first met, maybe even four years.

At this point, I'm not sure, but you are a best-selling author, inventor of an entrepreneurship board game, which is behind you. You're the founder of 24-7 Golf, which you sold to Golf Tech. I want to find out all about that. And I know you have the Golf Track app. You've got a book coming out, a TEDx. I mean, you've got a lot of things going on in your world. And you and I haven't spoken in a while. So why don't we just kick it off with you have this exit now to Golf Tech.

And then what? So let's start with there and then let's move forward to the game. Everything else you got going on. Yeah, no, great. Great to see you again. It's been, it's been over three years. Cause I remember it was in LA at this conference, right? This, it was Bitcoin and all of that. Right. And that's where I met Matt and we've stayed friends. So thanks for that connection. You know, he's been a good friend as well. Yeah.

But yeah, wow, a lot has changed since that day. So yeah, that was before the exit. So I think what happened was, you know, I was, I can't quite place exactly when that was on that journey. But when I first moved to the US, obviously, I was trying to scale the business. And, you know, halfway through that first year of, you know, my, and I call it my world expansion, the domination plan, you know,

you know, the evil plan, like halfway through that, I nearly went bankrupt again. I had this, I remember this July 21 or something like that. Like I had like no revenue for the month and I'm like, oh my God, I'm screwed. And I'm just like, I just got, you know, you have nothing else to do, right? And just keep fighting and fighting. And I turned it around and six months later, I sold the company.

right to a public company golf sticks owned by a japanese listed company called gdo amazing company both amazing companies you know they're quite sky track which has been a really you know a huge uh name in the golf business and so then because i was i was kind of pitching them to to be like a reseller for my uh products with you know remember i brought the golf simulator to that conference we put out the room at the back so that like i was pitching for them to sell that thing uh those products to their customers and then they kind of called me and said hey you know what instead of selling it

you know your stuff i would just make it our stuff and buy you and you know went through the whole thing and and then came to a great deal which um you know left a lot of risk on the table we shared the risk and the upside so we you know we came to a deal where basically we could both um share in in the in the growth of the business which you know it's grown i don't know 10 15 x to you know when i when i sold it because of the name the brand the the marketing power the um

The resources, the team, et cetera. So it's been a hell of a journey. And that kind of triggered all these other things that happened after. And, you know, one of the main things psychologically that's happened after that is, you know, the kind of the veil of the imposter syndrome came down a bit.

and all these things I had in me for years before, like the board game, I actually wrote that or like invented the first version of that 2007, 2008. I mean, it just sat on the shelf because I was like, who wants to know what I have to say when, you know, I'm some loser out the back, you know, back in the room. And so that was an interesting transition. And that first book, that one up there as well, you know, again, wrote that in 2007, never published it.

just had all this imposter syndrome spell built up in me. And that exit kind of triggered this...

outflow of stuff. And that's been really amazing ever since. So that's the exit. So I'm still there. I'm still helping grow the business, which is doing really well. We had like a three to four year deal to kind of stay on and help. But I also have other things I'm doing. And yeah, just being a typical entrepreneur with attention span of a kitten. Let's go to the exit real quick.

We had a recent guest talking about their advice around the learnings that they had when they were exiting their business and the ups and downs of the process. You have a different spin than they have because you had more of a partnership and a longer stay on. And you're saying you are enjoying the risks together and the rewards as well. Do you have any learnings of that

process for others who might be, you know, looking at an exit and maybe a similar situation? Absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting. It comes up a lot. Like there is, what I find is a lot of people have an idea of an exit where you basically, you get a check, you sell off into the sunset, they take over the, you know, they get the keys. It's like buying a house, right? You move out, they move in, that's it, right? What I found and, you know, my involvement with entrepreneurs organization has been a huge help in kind of figuring out how these things work.

That's generally not how it works. That works in a small percentage of time, but most of the time, there is some kind of handover period. And the great benefit of the type of exit I had, which is a strategic sale. So I sold, actually, let me give you a story as an example of kind of how I wanted to sell and how I ended up selling. So I started the Masters of Entrepreneurship and Innovation in Melbourne at Swinburne University back some years ago.

But the guy that ran it, the lecturer, the head of the school, he is big claim to fame. He sold this company to like Oracle for $12 million, right back, I don't know, 25, 30 years ago. Interestingly enough, he was losing $2 million a year when he sold it for $12 million. And everyone's asked, how'd you do that?

And his whole theory was, well, Oracle could take his company that was losing $2 million, inject it into all of their customers and make $100 million in the first year. And that's exactly what happened. So they 10x their money in the first year because there was a strategic acquisition. It was a strategic play. And ultimately, my dream was to do something similar. And that's kind of what happened where they saw what I had, which was a small business, but I had manufacturing. I had the value chain, right?

And so that value chain was valuable to all of their customers. And so when you combine those two, you go, well, their resources, their name, their brand, their customers. With my value chain, all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what your EBITDA is, right? What matters is how much can they make with your product selling to their customers? And then you go, well, if they make this, can I, you know, if I sell it at, say, 20% of that value, that means as soon as they buy me, they 5X their money.

And if at that number, that one fifth of the value that I'm really happy because I have a great exit, hey, all the power, right? And that's kind of what I went through where they were able to just push that and we shared a new success. And so it ended up being a great deal for both of us because they didn't have the risk upfront, right? They didn't have to write a massive check upfront.

And I also kind of didn't have a limit to what I could exit for because, hey, you know, the more they sell, the better I do and the better they do and all that. But obviously they get a bigger slice of the pie than I do. But that's fair because they're putting in the resources to grow that. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I love that. The strategic sale, finding a company, you work with the company with the

the thought in your back of your head that maybe I could exit to a company who, who's basically, you know, a vendor partner, however you want to define it. And then you might be able to get more for it because it's not based on, you know, an X times EBITDA. And even if your company's losing money, then obviously you're like in a negative EBITDA, but this is, this is great. I think that's amazing. So you got through that.

You're now like, okay, what's next in my life? I don't want to become one of those lost entrepreneurs after they exit and then they don't know what they're doing. We all have ADHD. So, you know, I love the we're looking for that shiny thing. But you got this. You look back in your history and you see this game and you pull that out and you're like, okay, I'm going to launch this game.

Then what? Well, so Gabe was one of them. It actually kind of became, it's part of a bigger foundational kind of process that I'm going through. And I was very lucky to, again, golf is just such a great connector. If you remember, you know, at that conference in LA, we're walking out of the room and he saw my top with my bracelet.

And he just literally walked up to me and said, I love golf. And I said, me too. And, you know, that's how the friendship started. And what I love about that is golf is such a great connector. And so one of these other moments that I had was I met a great entrepreneur. You may have heard Kevin Harrington, right? The first shark on the shark tank, you know, what a name in the industry. And we met over golf, you know, and we've become friends and he's actually written the preface to my second book. But,

Which is coming at the end of this month. But besides that, he told me the story of how he has built all these amazing businesses, you know, the Lakeland Shopping Network that he basically invented, you know, the whole as seen on TV thing. But, you know, he told me the story of how he was having lunch with Richard Branson. And Richard Branson says to him, everyone knows all these entrepreneurs you built up, but no one knows your name.

And he said, go write some books, you know, get your brand out there. You never know what's going to happen. And so he followed that advice. And one day he got approached by the producer of this new show called The Shop Tank. And the rest is history.

And so he was sharing the story of a dinner with me. And, and I'm like, you know what? I was kind of on the fence about the whole personal brand thing. And obviously, you know, I got to thank you for that as well, because you really, you know, encouraged me to do that back three years ago. And I kind of, you know, I started, but you know, it wasn't, I wasn't ready. You know, I just, I had too many, too many demons. And, you know, so we did a little bit of work, but then I kind of, you know, went on a different direction. And now that conversation kind of put me back to that conversation you and I had.

And I was like, you know what? I feel I'm ready for this. And so I looked at what I had and I already had this. I had a book already written and I had a game already written. So the book I basically, I repackaged, you know, published that. The game I looked at, I'm like, you know what? It doesn't reflect who I am today. It doesn't reflect the lessons I've learned. And so I went and I found as great entrepreneurs, we got to find the right people around us.

I found this absolute genius in Bangkok. This young man, Jackie. He's got a name that no one can pronounce, so we just call him Jackie. You can see him on my website, a little profile of him. But his side hustle is designing board games.

And he's so passionate about it, right? And he's a lecturer at university for game theory, but he's side hustlers this. And so I hired him and we spent a year rebuilding the game, redesigning it. And then the main thing behind the game was, you know, I was inspired by Robbie Kiyosaki's Cashflow 101, which I used to play 25 years ago. And it changed my life. And it allowed me to go on this journey of, you know, investing. And that's how I bought all these properties I had, which I lost. You know, that's a different story.

And I want it to be that catalyst for the 580 million entrepreneurs that are out there in the world. I want it to take all the lessons I learned, the people that I know, the books that I've read, and make it a visceral, gamified, low-risk experience. How do you...

go through the process of being punched in the face on a daily basis, being an entrepreneur without the risk, without losing the kind of money I've lost millions multiple times. And I dusted it off and I put it together and I put it out to the world. And one of the main things I'm doing with it is actually I'm donating it. I'm donating to all these not-for-profits and schools because these are the lessons. That's what I have to share with the world now. And that's kind of how it came about, if that makes sense.

It doesn't matter how successful someone has become. If they, everyone I think would tell me, at least they have here that you have to get dragged through the mud. It's a part of the process, but I think that's where, you know, either you quit and you move on to something else or you keep going. And that, that might be the differentiating factor between, you know, entrepreneurs and maybe non-entrepreneurs. I'm not sure how you would define that, but

How do you have the mental fortitude to keep going? What is it in your mind? Is it just that entrepreneurs are crazy or is there something else in there? Because most people, we had another guest on that was saying basically that, you know, like you're doing something that has impact.

You know that, you know, one out of every 10 are successful or whatever, you know, whatever the rate is. So, you know, like, OK, the first year, 50 percent fail. Year two, 75 percent fail. You know, year by year five, it's like 90 percent. I'm making these numbers up. But, you know, you get the idea, like, you know, up front, it's probably going to be a failure that you probably your chances are you're going to fail. But yet you continue doing it over and over again. What is that?

That's a great question. And I recently, I feel like I've really kind of cracked it, at least for me. And this is one of the messages I share in my keynotes about that exact concept, which you just asked. Like, how do you keep going? Because that really applies not just to entrepreneurship. It applies to whether you're in a relationship, whether you're in a career, whether you're just starting a career, whether you're at the top of the ladder and whatever it is. Right.

This is what I learned about myself. I had this, as I told you, especially once I had the exit, I had this time and moment to really reflect on the last 25 years. You know, this overnight success that took 25 years to make, right? And because I started my business when I was 17. And to me, the big shift came when I stopped focusing on the outcome. Like I wanted to be, you know, when I was 20, I wanted to be a billionaire by 30. You know, when I was 30, I wanted to be a billionaire by 40. It's like none of those things happen.

I was so focused on the outcome. As I got through the process, I got older, as I had kids, as I had a family and I matured and kind of my risk profile changed. The thing that really changed in my outlook is my obsession with the inputs. So I talk about, you know, I was so obsessed with the outputs and it was however I can get to that output.

But then the shift happened in me where I started focusing on the inputs. I started building the habits. I wasn't doing this consciously. It's just in reflection. I saw that what I was doing and I could actually pick up on these cues where I got to a point in life where I love what I do so much that I can't imagine doing something else. And

That is the key to that crazy that entrepreneurs have. We get this passion, this love for what we do so much that we'd rather do that than anything else, even if it's going to fail, even if it's going to give us potential suffering. But there's always that one in a million chance that you're going to hit it out of the park.

And that keeps us going again, like the golf, like you hit that one shot that always keeps you coming back. Even if you had a horrible round, there'll be one shot that round that will just keep you coming back. And entrepreneurship is a little bit like that, but it's the focus on inputs. It's creating those, making those inputs, your habits. When you, when you go in day in, day out and you like, you know what, the outcomes will take care of themselves. If I focus on,

building a great company, building a great product, a great service, hiring the best people, building the best culture. And you focus on those little steps that make those things happen. That's what creates that step after step. I think success, even if that success, I've always said this, I knew that I would succeed. I just did that. I just knew, like, I don't know how, I just knew. What I didn't know was when.

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Get started for free today. And that question is so frustrating, right? When? Because you think it might be tomorrow. It might be a year from now. And then it's like 10 years go by. And you're like, should I give up on this? Like, am I crazy? Am I like living in a delusional world where I think I'm going to succeed, but the reality is I'm not? And I think that if I look at all the entrepreneurs I know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You've met so many. You've spoken to so many.

Do people realize if you take care of the process, if you build the best you can build,

that you probably nothing's ever guaranteed in life but your probability of success is high the only thing you don't know is when i like that it's not the it's not it's it's the when it's the when it might be also that that's a good one where yeah you stop saying that you're going to be a billionaire by x time that that might not that might hold you back you might be disappointed uh you know the inputs those are really good takeaways eager i appreciate that i wanted to uh

to dive into your book, your next book. Can you share what it is? And then how is the process? Because I'm currently, we're over a year into writing a book, but we went the traditional publisher route. And it's a very long and painstaking process. And sometimes I want to give up. But how has the process been for you? And what is this new book about? So the new book is called, it's kind of a second in the series. So the first one back in the time is called Practical Manifestation.

And it's really, so that book was about how do you, as a project manager, which is what I was, you know, running IT projects. And then I watched The Secret and, you know, all this manifestation thing was very popular, the self-help section. But it frustrated me because it was too much, you know, you sit on the couch and imagine you're steering your dream car. That doesn't put a dream car in your driveway. And so I wanted to take a project manager approach to that. So the second book is in the series. It's called Agile Manifestation.

In that time between those two books, 15 years have passed. I really embraced the agile methodology. I use it in my app development for my app. I've used it in multiple projects. All these great companies, Spotify, Amazon, SpaceX, Tesla, they all use agile methodology to create the most amazing technologies in the world. And I look at people who want to achieve amazing things in their life. They put their things on the vision board and then they manifest whatever that means.

And I wanted to take that and go, listen, these companies achieve these crazy things. Why don't you just take what works? You may even be using it in your day-to-day job, but you're not using it at home.

So why not? So I wanted to take that and write it into a methodology of how did you achieve the things you dream about in a way that a company would achieve things that they dream about? You know, there's a moment when everyone said it's impossible to land a rocket back on Earth. And they went about and they did it. There was also, you know, impossible to stream movies over the internet. There's all these impossibles that become possible.

And so the book is really a very practical way of how to use this proven methodology in a way to achieve your dreams, whatever they may be, in a practical way, in a step-by-step way, kind of reverse engineering those dreams versus just hoping that it happens. Hope is not a strategy. And so that's my second book.

Hope is not a strategy. No, that, that sounds amazing. You have Kevin Harrington in there. I mean, I, I can't wait to read this. Thank you for sharing all the updates. I mean, we could go for another 30 minutes here. Always great chatting with the Igor. I'm, I'm super happy for you that you got, you did it right. Like you did it. You did what you've been dreaming about for 25 years. And now you're giving back, you're helping others. You,

You know, it's like your legacy of creation things and people are going to always remember how how you made them feel when they do your when they read your book or when they play the game. And then they're going to think in 20. Can you imagine that 25 years just like you with Robert's game? They're going to be like, I remember when I played Igor's game and how that changed my life.

But really appreciate you coming back today. If you want to find out more information about you, they want to get in touch. How can they do so?

So the best way is I'm very active on LinkedIn. So follow me on LinkedIn. You probably have my name, which is a mouthful in the show notes or just IgorWeinstein.com. You can find all the info about the game, the books on my personal website. But yeah, please reach out. I'm always, I love talking to entrepreneurs. I love the stories that are out there. I love sharing those stories. I love hearing those stories. So yeah, please, you know, to your audience, just reach out and follow me on LinkedIn.

Igor, always appreciate chatting with you. Great to update, even though it's been a few years. I can't wait for the game and the book and everything to come out. But thank you so much for joining us today on Founders Story. Thanks.

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