What NASA Knows About Sleep That You Don’t | Ep 220 with Dr. Arjen de Jong Founder of AirTulip
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Founders Story. Today we have Dr. Arian DeYoung, an aerospace engineer, a real rocket scientist. So we're going to see if you really need to be as smart as a rocket scientist to understand this conversation today. But

uh aryan is the founder of air tulip a company reinventing sleep by using laminar and airflow technology to create a purified breathing zone at night which was just on shark tank yep which is like every entrepreneur's dream go on shark tank and then maybe one day exit your company but aryan what was the spark for entrepreneurship for you and why this industry great yeah thanks um

I actually grew up in an entrepreneurial family. My dad had his own factories making cane rooms. So I grew up already like being like three, four, five year old being around the factory. My tree house was actually blocks of styrofoam that I could like stack up in the corner in the storage space. So it was really fun. But with that came like this feeling like, hey, you can always do something in a different industry. And sometimes people think you need a large team to do something. The smallest team can make the largest impact as long as you come with something unique from a different angle. So I started with that. I've

studied aerospace engineering and specialized in fluid mechanics and all that. But what that does is you can be agnostic to industry. You can improve something by taking something from another industry. And I've done that many times. I was like having some wind tunnel devices with lasers and I used that to improve a semiconductor machine for like a big manufacturer. So I was like, everybody was like, oh, you can't measure this thing. I was like, sure you can. Here, back off the envelope. One, two. Yeah, that works. You know, just need a big laser. Like this...

this one and their way crossbreeding is i think where you can get a lot of entrepreneurship so that sparked for me like i love to unstick things when they're like when somebody says oh you can't this or it's so difficult anybody is always able to say something like how it can't be done there's not many people can say like it doesn't work because of xyz and etc etc

But it's like asking the question, like, well, how can it be done? Or what is the alternate? And then there's less people that are like, well, that can't be done. But if we, let's think. So try to get to that corner because it's, you know, you see that with professors and with academia. I love academia. I got my PhD as well.

But it's too easy to just, you know, burn down an idea instead of giving an opposite. So think of that. How do you flip this around? And that's that's for me this part that creates stuff. You know, I love that story. I am also like a creative person who wants to invent something. But I have like six failed inventions. So when you look at the massive amount of problems that we could be solving in life,

How do you hone in and say, this is the problem that I want to solve? Right. Well, for me, it came back to like what I can do to help others. So with the semiconductors, like unsticking something to enabling a lot for the people that I was already working with.

But this thing, it was something else. It was, and this comes back to COVID. We couldn't be indoors just around the pandemic because you'd spread COVID much stronger indoors. And I knew why, what would happen. If you have turbulent flow in the air, it mixes everything and it stays in this box. You can like, somebody coughs and instead of it being blown away with the wind outdoor, it stays around and around. And nobody sees it because it's all transparent. We don't know how air moves. We have no idea. I remember this.

being part of the maintenance crew for those clean rooms. And after we do that, we have these downdraft booths. They're like a forest filter and the whole booth has a downflow, meaning that it doesn't mix up. It's just going in one direction. That's called laminar flow in layers. It doesn't create whirls. It's just straight down. And one of the workers lit up a cigarette

I wasn't allowed to, but, you know, and I was just joining the crew. I was like 16 or something like that. And, you know, instead of a plume of smoke, it was a line straight down. And I stood right next to him and I couldn't smell it. I didn't cough. I was just having completely clean air because my air I was breathing was coming from straight above. It wasn't coming from him. So I was like, when it came to the pandemic, I was like, wait, this is it. We can solve the indoor problem. We can open up bars and restaurants and we can make sure the COVID doesn't spread and we can really block it off.

So fast forward, let's make a portable clean room. So, you know, again, back of the envelope calculation. So we made these kind of pillar like things. They look like extra large tulips. So hence the name.

And yeah, we started placing them in bars and restaurants in New York City. I was just hauling them around. I lived in the West. I'm still living in the West Village. And, you know, just trying to see where we can be. And that was like the spark. Like, hey, can we help, you know, solve the pandemic? Like, I know about flow. Let's do something. And not, you know, only think about it, but do it. So we built it and we started doing it. Timing is everything, right? You combined all of your experiences, your educational knowledge, the experience you had working for...

within a certain company, doing a certain task. And now you've created this thing. You said that you went from bar to bar. You were just going there. How did you get your first 20, 30 clients? So that was actually, and this is the whole product market fit thing, right? You start learning a lot about the non-technical stuff. So a lot of the restaurants,

It would help them, but how do I explain to them that this would help versus, you know, an air purifier or, you know, just closing or wearing masks? So that was the biggest challenge. Like, wait, how do I, in a short time, right? Because the pandemic was running and running. We went to like restaurants and bars and some people were like, okay, cool. I'll try it and then do it and we'll measure it. But it was hard to get like real traction. And so the Eureka moment came when we started switching clients. We started thinking about, oh, and not only bars and restaurants, where do people need to be?

Dentistries, dentist office. You had to go to the dentist. And the dentists are actually technical people. They work with their hands. They are very educated. And they also work with their mouths open. They already have the problem that all this kind of, you know, saliva is always spitting up. So they are very aware of all the problems there were.

So I started to talk to dentists and they're like, yeah, for sure. I get that. Let's place it here and here and here. And so that's where you got like a fit, like the product started fitting the market, even though I knew it would help the restaurants and the bars. At that point, I could do one and two and three. But dentistry was was a niche that started to come in. And I was like, OK, let me just do that and then come back to the rest, you know, and then, you know, gain your traction there.

and then work to the other niches. So that was really finding your, and again, it's the classic thing that you read in the book, but it's more about the people thing. I'm, you know, I can be as smart as I can do with the smartest equipment and the best thing, but you need to convince people. And how do you talk the talk for the people? What's in it for them? So dentist at that point.

Yeah, that's so smart. You many times think it's a certain customer or clientele for your product or service, but then you realize there's somebody who probably needs it more, already understands it, and I'm guessing they have more money to spend because as we knew, a lot of these bars and stuff, not only are their profit margins already low, but they've been shut down. Where the dentists and medical, better profit, better margins, more money to spend.

also a necessity so that that is super smart so fast forward to shark tank yeah a lot of people i'm sure be like i want to be on i want to get my product on shark tank so you know what is the first step of how someone even does that and then i would love to go into how the experience was sounds good before we went to shark tank a quick note the product i was going to shark tank with was actually an evolution of that post pandemic i had to flip i had to like pivot this again

In the book, you say give it and everybody says how to do it. But it was mostly like, all right, the dentist assistants that were all sniffing a lot of allergies, had a lot of allergies. They weren't having the allergies anymore because we put these downdraft pillars in there. And for the whole day, they were like in completely clean air. So I was like, wait a second. This does something to people post-COVID. So we implemented this in the headboard for a bed. Why? Why?

The larger the areas we need to go for with people, the more difficult it is to make a machine. So where do people not move? So when you're sleeping, you're like between this and that side of the pillow. Bingo. All right. So that's what we did.

couple prototypes and then we started like going towards we had a Kickstarter so that helped as well to figure out the fit what kind of people are resonating with it and now comes Shark Tank and Shark Tank everybody thinks like oh you immediately go on the show no it's it's got a couple steps and it's quite exciting and

My friend that actually was on the show in the tank, he was, he's also a consultant in aerodynamics and a good friend of mine. His name is Jim. And he said, Arjen, you need to go on Shark Tank. You know, again, people would say, yes, but if it's difficult. I said, sure, let's do it. How do I get on Shark Tank? How do I get on Shark Tank? Now,

You can do two things. You can submit your thing to the website, but then you're a part of the pile. And they had these open casting days. I was like, all right, that sounds good. So you line up at 6 AM in front of the Java center here in New York city between, you know, everybody, some people have like fantastic inventions or, you know, stuff to make your back better or cookies or ice cream, or, you know, everybody's there. It's kind of fun. So I was like starting to talk to everybody, by the way, always be social. It's awesome. Um,

And yeah, I had a couple of phone boards with this kind of flow visualization and started talking to people. It took a long time. So because there's so many people, I only got my little pitch at around 2 p.m. So you spend this whole day and waiting and cycles and stuff. But yeah, and then so you start talking to people and they vet somebody for the next round.

Second step is you get assigned like, you know, some directors and co-directors that start helping you with the process, preparing your speech and your pitch. And that really helps. Of course, for TV, you have a certain pitch. And one thing that people might not know about is, first of all, there's no redos. So you come in, you do your thing, you do your pitch, and then there's a Q&A. It's about 20, 30 minutes. No redos.

And also, they don't know about you beforehand, which is by design. They're like, I don't know what this is. Let's see it. So it is genuinely this clean, new pitch. Nothing is set up like, oh, they already know. No. But that means it's a pressure cooker. And so you go through a couple of cycles with the directors, submit another video, make sure that everything's good. You then go to the next round. So it's just like a couple of rounds before you get actually to the shooting and the show.

And then in the show, they say like they overshoot. So it's not guaranteed you get to air. It really depends. But yeah, you do your best and you work with it. And the directors love the whole airflow visualization. Again, that's the lasers from the wind tunnel with the smoke stuff. But now I'm using it to show people how this works. That's my biggest challenge as well. Like, how do I show what air does if air is transparent? Nobody knows that. Like, unless you're, you know, aerodynamic scientist.

So, yeah, super exciting. And then a couple of weeks before. Yeah. How was the experience? Like the doors open up and then now you have to go out. Yeah. How was that experience for you? Because I would think I would be very, very nervous whether you're, you know, obviously you can't see everyone watching you at home and it's recorded. But knowing that you only get one shot.

They're right there. You see how they are on TV. Obviously, you're getting some insights internally of what some help from from people within the organization. But what's going through your mind? And then how was the exact experience when you walked out there and you started? Yeah, of course, you're like super, you know, what would you say? Like it's like.

it's super exciting but it's also like you can be a little anxious i was like having this like dry mouth and stuff like all right let's do it at a certain point you need to just like all right that's it uh it's not gonna be perfect but never is you've prepped your speech to that level and then you just need to go so you walk through that corridor there's a spot on the floor where you need to stand for the cameras and stuff to make sure and then it's just one two three and go um

What I noticed is, and this really depends on the persona to the persona. Some people have more difficult with it. I love to improvise. I'm like, okay, let's go. And I'm actually more anxious beforehand. But the moment I'm on the stage, I'm like, all right, let's do it. I did a lot of like, you know, theater and improv and stuff before. And I kind of, I get my energy from it. Like, okay, I'm here. I'm making the most out of what I have energy wise. Um,

As long as you don't make it too, you know, oh no, it doesn't, don't make it too stiff. And it's harder for some people than for others. But, you know, try to give it, you know, with a smile and a pinch of salt. It's already amazing that you're there. You see the studio.

um if people are going to be on the charting there there is a walkthrough to show the set already so that you get a little bit acquainted that's uh either the day off or day before you come in and so it's not like oh my god i don't know where the door is and you know what's happening but yeah it's just about going and you know often entrepreneurship in general is about making that step and being uncomfortable and then see what happens i won't make it perfect you know i you know but i

giving my best shot for what I have at the moment. So, yeah. I've heard a lot of people talk about improv is very good for business and even theaters. I did a little bit of theater, very, very small. Maybe it's the comedy side. I enjoy that too. So I can see personally how that's helped me when it comes to connecting with other people. The fact that, you know, you are talking about using and leveraging things in your background. I think I'm

I'm inspired. I'm going to go do some, some, I think stand up, do some improv. Like those are the things I would, I'd imagine like you've got to really be on your feet when you're pitching something and you have to be prepared, but not frozen. So let's say what, so the other thing I think most people want to know is what happens after Shark Tank? Yeah. So after Shark Tank, of course you've done your pitch, depending on how the outcome is. It's like a

A huge sigh of relief. And I was like, you know, civil gym in Los Angeles. It was in the studios in LA. And yeah, it was super exciting. I didn't take the offer. I got an offer. I didn't take the offer. I know from other people that then there's, of course, the whole thing about finalizing and putting in writing that offer. So you work with the shark and with the team. For me, I didn't have that. But what we did have was an unknown on when we were going to air.

So we were shooting in September, it was. The season was starting around October. The problem is the season has got like 16 to 20 episodes and they're only going to tell you three weeks ahead if and when you're going to be in the episode. So then the first episode, you're like,

okay, so where is it happening? This episode had the guest sharks and stuff like that. I had all the classic sharks. I already knew I'm not in that episode and not in that episode. But after a couple of episodes, like eight, nine, 10, you're like, okay, that's cool. But when are we going to be airing? Like what's going on? So it was a huge sigh of relief. And I actually saw that, oh, we're going to be airing an episode 16 and you know, season 16, episode 16. It was super. And then from there on, it was also scrambling together with the,

the team we have, like, how do you prepare for that? How would you prepare for, you know, traffic on the website? What we saying marketing, like it's all hands on deck. So it's, it's not only you go shark tank and that's it. And you make the money in yay. No, it's, it's about, it's also about showcasing to the world what you're doing and why you're doing it. And that's also a big part of it. Like for me, it was showcasing that we can actually manipulate air and create a local bubble in the open. People might not think that's possible.

So, that was also a big part for me to do it. And then I want to piggyback on that to kind of, you know, to help people. Because, you know, we had a lot of people with asthma, with allergies that had a huge benefit. But how do I reach the people and convince them like this actually is working? How do I work with that? And that's something different from engineering. And that's, I think, the biggest challenge for especially a technical founder.

I can make the most beautiful device in the world. Nobody would, you know, give a damn about it because you need to convince somebody that it would help them or what it is. So that's the biggest mismatch. And that's, yeah, that's the challenge. And that's post Shark Tank really what, you know, I personally focused on. Yeah. I feel like when there's any educational sale, it just adds to a little bit more complexities. And this product sounds, I mean, it sounds incredible, you know,

You know, I've never seen or heard of a similar product out there in the marketplace. But, you know, most of us will probably need something. You know, my wife and I always suffer from allergies and other things. And, you know, being in the city, there's smog and pollutants, like all the things that you already know about. So how did you or how are you finding now people are responding to the education that you're putting out there and just the product in general? Yeah.

You know, what also helps me, even if people don't go for the project, for the product that I have, I already notice that people are grateful. Hey, I didn't know that this was the case. And now I look at the air quality or I close the windows or wash the curtains and it's really helping me. And that's already something that that's for me a win. You know, like I'm helping people with transferring some knowledge about what is there in the air. Yeah.

So yeah, that's the first. And the second thing is it's a continuous journey. And as we're growing and as we're showcasing more, there's also a buildup of trust. And this is also how it goes for any entrepreneur. Like how do you make sure that people see you not just once, but also twice and five times and stuff. That's not only for yourself, but it's also what you try to educate. So for me, it's a dual thing. Like I love it that people actually respond to the way I try and work on explaining what's there and what it does for them.

And then again, it also helps getting the product to market. And that's one thing that I think is always a challenge is,

There's such a big difference between B2B and direct-to-consumer sales. I had an earplugs company before that was like direct-to-consumer. I didn't know about that because a lot of the previous stuff I've done is in the kind of B2B sphere. Large machinery, expensive equipment, you know, changing things that are, you know, very, like a couple of companies can do it and there's these large contracts with it.

And this is a whole different game. So how do you reach people en masse and how do you create a community around that? Community is everything, right? I think when you're reaching people, maybe even the future of B2B is also having some sort of community, just maybe it looks different. So I know you've had a very fascinating journey. I mean, from aerospace engineer to creating different products, inventing things, you know,

seeing success, getting this investors or crowdfunding, and then you have Shark Tank. And now you're here. You've gone from B to B, B to C. What was a challenge, a personal challenge or something or a challenge that you had to go through that maybe personally was not easy? And how did you overcome it? I think the biggest challenge that I've seen, and it's a weakness for me, is like I noticed that I like working with people.

But when you are getting other people to get on board with your business and you start working with them, I noticed that I too often in the past was, oh, I like somebody as a person. Therefore, I want to work with this person, not looking at their merit or their backstory or what's happening. And so for me, it was really like, how do I learn to not

try to be just working with friends because that's not working. I need to get a diverse team where everybody, you know, is really at level and chips in what it is. And that's for me the biggest challenge. Like, how do I switch my mindset, my own natural tendency to gravitate towards a certain persona that I like personally just to be, you know, playing pool with or, you know, like hanging out with. That's not necessary. And it's good to have a team where you're like, you know, you like each other and work with it.

But how do you make sure that it's also based on merit and also based on expectations? So that's my biggest challenge. And I keep cycling with that. Like, okay, who do I work with and what capacity and at what level? And that's not only for team internal. There's also like suppliers and contractors and collaborations and all that stuff. That's the continuing journey. And I'm improving on that, but it's difficult. I'm very strong at what I do on the inventing stuff side.

But then if people are enthusiastic, like, are they the right people to join the team? And because in the end, and that's one of the things that I find difficult is to be more

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Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com slash today and start learning today. That is actually helping the business, therefore helping more people. So it feels very double by being a little bit more reserved or think a different way about who you're going to work with.

But it will help in the end the calls you're really focusing on. It's a continual journey, I must say. And I think that's my biggest challenge. There we go. You're able to say that this is an ongoing thing. Some people are like, oh, I solved this problem. I moved on. But what you're saying is this is an ongoing thing. And I think most of us, that's what we're really dealing with in business is it's something ongoing and

And it's not probably already solved. But I think not a lot of people are willing to admit to that. But I appreciate that. I am totally with you on board. And I've gone through the same thing. I've had to relook at how I trust people or how I get excited to work with people. It's not just because of their personality, because of who they are, how much fun we have. I am very interested about success, though.

So you mentioned success just now. What will success look like? Or at what point are you like, okay, I am satisfied with the success that I've had. I'm going to move on to something else. I think that comes down to, is this a working machine that really is changing people's lives? So kind of the mission of,

what we do to help improve people. And it's not by just having X units or something, but really creating momentum and a movement towards a betterment. And I think Dan, I would feel very satisfied to make sure that this continues. So I don't want to cut it off, but then to kind of start saying, okay, this is something I can look at it. We built the foundation, the building is standing, the gears are in there and turning, right?

This is the moment where I don't need to be

anymore putting the bricks in this is to run by others okay now let's see where this can be and it can be either as part of a larger corporation or on itself get further but i'm definitely not there yet like this has to still grow and it's still we got the momentum we got the traction we got the interest we got these orders and it's like it's a running machine so that's great and there's so many levels of skill that i still want to go through and this is maybe you

again, the physicist me speaking, it's logarithmic scale, meaning it's like a director skill for earthquakes. Uh,

if a mosquito lands on the table it's minus 14 on that same scale, minus 14 on the Richter's. The Death Star exploding by the laser thing, the Death Star exploding the planet is like 15 on the Richter scale. So a Richter scale is in orders of magnitude, it's like times 10 times 10 times 10 times 10 times 10. So every step you take you go 10 times more. So every time you go from 2 to 3, 10 times more. From 3 to 4, 10 times more etc. But if you then look back all the way down the alley

You've done a million times. So right now we are in a certain phase, you know, the phase of the thousands. This can become the phase of the ten thousands, the phase of the hundreds of thousands, et cetera, if you think about units.

So for me, every phase has a new challenge. Your company has to be bigger or has to do something different to reach the next milestone in the phase. And I'd like to see a couple more phases and then say, okay, this has enough momentum and mass. This is like really, this is now orbiting a planet instead of just doing a hobby. You know what I mean? We're very far from the hobby side, but we're not yet on the, it's a planet that orbits the sun, let's say side. So I want to get to that.

You got to come back when you're orbiting the planet, when you've hit this success, when you got the tens, hundred thousands, billions in revenue or valuation, that'll be very interesting to see. I love to learn what are the challenges at that point? What are the learnings at that point? Cause I think it's great. It's like, like you're saying, uh, every step is like a new challenge, a new learning experience, something that's different. Um, and,

There you go. You're 10x or 10 times success rate at the next phase. Come back and share with us how it's gone since then. But this has been Dr. Ari, and this has been great. One day I want to go to Shark Tank. I just want to be on the show.

but not have to talk on this show. I just need like a prop or something. But I really appreciate your time today. If people want to get in touch with you, they want to find out more about the company, how can they do so? Yeah, so we have the website airtulip.co.co, so not the com. And yeah, there's a couple of different menus. You can reach out to us by email. We also have a chat window if you have any questions. And so please reach out to me.

and to us. My personal email is also arjun at airtulip.co. If anybody wants to reach out personally, my name is here in the description, A-R-J-E-N. It's Dutch at airtulip.co. Amazing. Airtulip.co. Dr. Arjen, thank you so much for joining us today on Founders Story. Thank you so much. Thanks, Dan.

Welcome to It Takes Energy, presented by Energy Transfer, where we talk all things oil and natural gas. Oil and gas drive our economy, ensure our country's security, and open pathways to brighter futures.

Did he know that the majority of progress the U.S. has made in reducing emissions over the past decade has come from the oil and gas industry? With more electrical power generation now coming from natural gas versus coal, the air we breathe today is cleaner than it has been since the '90s, according to a report from the EPA.

Clean burning natural gas is also a reliable source of power for more than just our electrical grids. It is also used to power data centers, hospitals, schools, and so much more. Look around and you'll see the essential role oil and gas plays in our lives. Our world needs oil and gas, and people rely on us to deliver it. To learn more, visit energytransfer.com.