Jeff Van Gundy
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And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast. On a Tuesday morning, we are halfway through the NBA season in terms of games played. And I have not checked in with our resident expert,

color analyst on our biggest NBA games since the beginning of the season since preseason so a lot of time has passed we've got a lot of data Jeff Van Gundy there's a lot to talk about how are you sir doing well how are you I'm doing well what's the complaint about we're halfway through the NBA season I was at Raptors Knicks yesterday I don't know if you saw that ending one of the craziest endings I've ever seen in person almost an all-time bad loss for the Raptors it was insane yeah it was uh

It was a hard-fought game, and I did watch it. And, you know, Fred Van Fleet, it reminded me of when he took a foul at a tie game, not knowing the score. That happened for us when I was with the Knicks as an assistant in 94 when we went to the finals. Or was it 95? Sam Mitchell took a foul in a tie game, not knowing the score. And it ended up – that was Reggie Miller where he scored –

eight and what, nine seconds? Eight points, nine seconds. Yeah. And in that game, Sam Mitchell fouled, I believe it was Starks. Starks went to the line, missed both, and then, you know, they escaped. So it was really like it brought back memories, you know, of always knowing time, score, penalty, timeouts, all that. And that was a crazy game. It was a tremendous win for the Raptors and a really –

you know, difficult loss for the Knicks. We could all agree. I mean, I realize I'm talking to a biased party here. Reggie Miller fouled Greg Anthony on that inbounds pass, right? In that game, pushed him down, got the steal, turned around and hit a three. We could all agree that's a foul, right? Not in those days. I don't know. Yeah. That was just a, you know, one of those things where like, you know, you preach all year, play 48 and finish games and,

You know, the bigger issue was we came out, I think it was up six. No, might have even been more. And we just gave Reggie Miller a wide open catch and shoot three from a side out of bounds. I mean, you know, so we did everything wrong. They did everything right in those situations.

in that period of time. And unfortunately the bad guys won that one. Quick thoughts on the Raptors. All eyes are on them as the trade deadline approaches. They're 20 and 24. They've now won four out of five to somewhat steady the ship. But as you know, coach, just reading the tea leaves and reading the reports, it's,

The whole league is watching to see what are they going to do? Are they going to pivot? Are they going to trade one of their key starters and sort of retool? Are they going to go full on rebuild? And I think they're still just waiting to see kind of like, can we get it in gear a little bit? They've got a ton of road games, unfortunately, for them coming up there. They're a bunch of home games, but

in the hole already or road games in the hole already. I just, just watching that game. Well, it was a win for them. Did it inspire faith? Like, what are you seeing out of Toronto as we get to the halfway point? Well, they really struggle on offense. You know, they're, you know, they've regressed in that area. And, and,

you know i don't i'm not an everyday observer of toronto so i can't tell you exactly why obviously van fleet's uh you know dropped some in his shooting percentages they're very reliant on you know one-on-one basketball they don't have a lot of shooting you know trent is obviously a great shooter and they're tiny you know overall they're they're a small group so um

It'll be interesting. You know, like I know there's been a lot of hand wringing over Scotty Barnes and his, you know, whether he shoots it well enough, he made a big three yesterday and late in the game. But I thought he played like a really good game yesterday, like on the offensive glass. I think sometimes we rush to anoint and then we rush to, to judge players. And I think sometimes you just have to wait and see. And I,

certainly Barnes, if they're going to play him at center, at some point he's going to have to be able to, you can't play a small center that can't shoot the ball. So I think, you know, the Knicks, and I think it was the right move, they chose to play Robinson on Siakam, and Inouye with Randall, and then they put a smaller Barrett on, you know, Barnes. And I thought Barnes just really like,

mauled him when it counted the most. So I think it was, it was a good win for them, you know, long-term. Do they have enough to be a serious playoff team? Probably not. And it'll be interesting to see what they choose to do. Yeah. You, you just, first of all,

Having a small center who can't shoot seems like a bad idea. It seems relevant to the Brooklyn Nets, just apropos of nothing. Let me put an asterisk. Unless you have Kevin Durant, who's so darn good it doesn't matter. I mean, literally, he's that good. Oh, my God.

And Claxton is, you know, a great roller. Oh, I wasn't talking about Claxton. Oh, you're talking Simmons. Yeah. Well, they have the same strengths and they have the same issues, which is free throw shooting and, you know, all that. So, yeah. Kevin Durant erases – and Irving. They erase a lot of, you know, possible negatives. You just nailed it with the Raptors. Like, it seems now safe to declare –

Whether they make a little bit of a run, whether they slump, whatever they end up doing, they just don't seem to have the goods to go deep into the playoffs. They just don't seem like a dangerous team. I don't see signs of them becoming a truly dangerous team. A team like, oh, I don't want to see them in the first round. Boy, they would have a puncher's chance in the second round.

It's just not, even when they win, you don't come away feeling like that's coming down the road. There's another team we're going to talk about later where when they win, I do feel like

That is coming down the road. And on Scottie Barnes, I couldn't agree more. The last two weeks have been almost refreshing for me because he's been really, really good in the last two, three weeks when teams have started to play him kind of like Ben Simmons and Draymond Green. Like, we're just not going to guard you and see what you do. The Knicks, to your point, did not do that last night. They reverted to the way that teams had guarded Scottie before. I've said all year, like,

I read and hear all this Scotty Barnes and Evan Mobley angst. Like, oh my God, have they regressed? And the leap hasn't come. And Evan Mobley's shooting, I think, 18% from three. And Scotty Barnes' field goal percentage is down. Like, maybe we were all wrong about him. I'm like, what planet am I living on that these guys who are 20 and 21 years old on good teams figuring out their roles, particularly Scotty Barnes on a team with similar players to him, it's kind of an awkward situation.

awkward balancing act for all of them, like we're already just like disappointed in these guys. Like I, and, and I've watched him and I'd be like, I get that he hasn't made a leap, but I still think he's kind of playing. Okay. Like his defense hasn't been as good as I hoped. And the shooting hasn't been as good as I hope, but I don't watch him and feel like, Oh my God, there's a problem. And I, I was beginning to feel like a crazy person coach in the last two weeks have been refreshing for me. Cause like, I was just never really worried about,

about either of those two guys. I'm still not. They're both going to be awesome. Like, it's all fine. Yeah, and I think when we judge, we always judge that everybody should be an all-time great. Like, oh, they're not going to be an all-time great if they can't shoot the ball better from deep. And some guys are just destined, hopefully, to be really good. And that's plenty good. Now, that's not to say that you don't have to have

ultimately star players. But I just think the angst, the hand-wringing about young players expecting everybody to ascend to all-time great status really can do a disservice. And I think you have to spend a lot of time, it seems to me like now, making sure the players don't feel that the outside critiquing of them

is how you feel as an organization or as a coach or as teammates. They have to know their value and they have to know why you feel that they're really good. And you still have to push them to get better, obviously. But I do think that it can be distracting with so many opinions out there. Some, you know, maybe not on base to what you feel as a coach.

Yeah, and to put a bow on Toronto, whatever they do deadline-wise, I think they're going to do from the mindset of,

This team might be good, like there might be a good version of this team, but we're not. I don't know that there's a great version of this team laying in wait. And I think that's a very important piece of information for them to have coming up on the deadline. And you mentioned another name that's going to be very important. Fred Van Vliet. Speaking of Fred Van Vliet, let's start by revisiting our finals predictions from that October episode we did. I believe both of us had Milwaukee and the Clippers in the finals.

the bucks are now second in the east i'm sorry third in the east the nets are still ahead of them 28 and 16 with a bottom six offense right now in the nba middleton's been injured the whole season drew holidays in and out yannis has now missed a few games with the knee thing which is anytime yannis in need she's like even though he's the bionic man i get a little worried and the clippers are just clipping along 23 and 22

Kawhi Leonard and Paul George never play together. They played 350 minutes together the whole season. They're plus 60 in those 350 minutes. Yay, hooray. You can pick either of those two teams and their general sort of conference rivals in the East, Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, Cleveland, and the West, a whole bunch of teams that have the Clippers. How do you feel about your preseason finals pick? Well, when you look at the West, so many star players just don't play. And then either you have the depth

to withstand it like New Orleans, which is like a tremendous roster building example. Memphis, I think, is another team that has great depth, or you don't. And when you talk about the Clippers, I still think they're very talented, but like you said, for whatever reason, injuries, choose not to play, I don't know. But they're just never even approaching whole. And I think that over time,

that erodes your team spirit. And I'll be interested to see what they can rejuvenate there. I think there's still, obviously, some of the younger teams that are now in the top spots in the West. I'm not sure you want to see

any of those teams that are down there that have talent and experience in the first round, even though you're the higher seed. So I don't feel great about my Clippers, the Clipper pick right now, just because I have no clue if, when, or if ever they're going to put a team together that resembles the team I predicted to go to the finals. Now, Milwaukee, Middleton being out all year, their offense –

Even with him out does sort of confound how it has dropped not really sure other than you know shooting is not been great I still think they're good, but I would change my pick to the Celtics now and The Celtics and I'm gonna either pick in the West I would take Memphis with slash New Orleans interesting over Denver

Yes. What is Denver? All right, well, there's a lot there. Let's talk about the Clippers first. Clippers are, you know, the availability thing is obvious, right? Like if they don't have their best players, who cares? And we're getting to the point where it's like, is this ever going to happen for them to the point that Bill Simmons on my podcast last week said they should just give up and trade one of Kawhi and Paul George now. Get some picks back that they owe a million picks to the Thunder team.

reset, retool. I don't think they're going to do that. I don't think it's like a third rail issue for them, but I don't think they're going to do that. I think they're going to go the other way and try to be aggressive at the trade deadline. And that's why I sort of said of the Van Vliet's a guy, you know, that is a natural transition here. They've been linked to Mike Conley. I keep an eye on not just point guards. I keep an eye on big wings, threes, fours for them too, because I think there's a sense around the league that,

We all knew the gap between their second best player and their third best player was a chasm. And I think that chasm has proven a little bit bigger and more problematic for

Than they thought. The issue they're going to run into is... Every team is going to ask for a first round pick. And Terrence Mann. Or Luke Kennard. But probably Terrence Mann. And the Clippers don't want to trade those guys. Because they're young and good. And on good contracts. So that's going to be one issue. But I do think they're going to be aggressive. And to the point about the third best player. Like the Kawhi PG. Yeah, they're plus 60 in 350 minutes. Plus 8.5 per 100 possessions. Those numbers are good. But...

But they're not like incredible compared to other two-star tandems around the league. Like there's – you can't look at the Kawhi Paul-George numbers now and be like, well, it's a no-brainer that they're an incredible team when those two guys play. So I'm –

It's hard to feel confident in that pick, right? Clippers. It's hard to feel confident. I'm curious about Denver because you said you'd pick Memphis and the Pelicans over Denver. Denver is now second in offense, 16th in defense. They have two of the league's top 10 lineups by plus minus their starters.

and the version of their starters with Bruce Brown from Michael Porter Jr., their starters are about to eclipse the Warriors starters in plus minus. The Warriors starters have been the best lineup in the league the whole season. Nuggets are on their heels. They're 16-3 in their last 19 games. Is that more about something Denver is lacking or just the respect level you have for Memphis and New Orleans as young, just fierce teams?

Well, both. I think the 16th, you ranked them in defense right now. That would just be hard to be a champion. Historically, that would make it hard. I think Jokic, he's won two MVPs in a row. I think he'd be hard-pressed to make a case why he shouldn't win a third. Oh, my God. He's ridiculous. He is...

I just, I marveled not only at his game, but at his giving, at his humility, at his humor. Like, I think when you look at him, I think we can start to take for granted everything other than the passing. I think the passing draws like these incredible oohs and aahs. But when you look at the whole process,

I think we start to some nights he's not, you know, he just, they just win and, you know, he's fine getting 16 to 18 and making Aaron Gordon. Like I think he's brought sanity to Aaron Gordon's game. Aaron Gordon, when he was in Orlando was trying to, you know, become a three point shooter. Now he, that's not what he does. He cuts, he knows he's going to get rewarded. I think Michael Porter, you know, who's been in and out Murray's been in and out. I love the pickup of Brown.

Contavious Caldwell Pope, I think, is a good, solid guy who shoots it and defends. I actually like some of – I think you're a Zeke Nagy fan. I'm not sure. I am. Big Zeke – not big. I'm on team play Zeke Nagy, and Michael Malone has come to my team. Yes. I like –

Ever since I saw him in summer league, I'm not sure I'm saying it right. Can car, or how do you say it? I believe it's Chanchar Chanchar. I like him. But, but I am a little concerned past Bruce Brown, both Thailand. I like, yeah. You know what I mean? But again, the size, you know, I'm just, I think there's more defensive issues come playoff time that can be exposed there, but yeah,

I'm all in on Jokic, his impact, and winning a third straight MVP. I do think you're right that the scoring is... I mean, he's shooting like 63% or something. It's just... It's crazy. And you can't... You can't single cover him. There might be two... I don't know if anybody can single cover him. You just... He's going to score on everybody. Maybe Embiid could do it in doses. You just can't do it. The problem is you also can't double him because he's going to murder you. He...

And the reason is he's not going to throw the pass that you expect out of the double team or the pass that you give him. He's going to figure out, well, if I take a dribble and a half spin over here, you're going to rotate this way. And this other guy that you don't want to leave open is going to be open or that's going to free up this cut for this other guy who's going to dunk. He's just going to outthink your double team if you're just a standard double team player.

defense. And so I do think all that is taken kind of for granted. Their defense is trending the right way. I agree with you. The ceiling on it is not... I don't think there's like a top eight defense here. The model for them has always been kind of the...

this LeBron Cleveland teams who were like unbelievable in offense and just good enough in defense to win. Now they won in 16, lost in 17. I think in a normal season, they would have won in 2017. Like if there weren't this total anomalous team in Golden State, I think that Cleveland team was just an incredible dominant team. That's been the model for Denver. I have faith in it. I think it has a lot of playoff equity and a lot of people dismiss the bubble because

Because of the setting, because the Clippers just didn't appear to be kind of emotionally engaged at the level you need to be to win deep playoff series. I just I still count that for Denver, the way they just picked apart the Clippers defense to the point that the Clippers had no answers for Murray Jokic two man game, just none. They couldn't do anything with it.

I think their offense in a slowed down game is good enough to lift their defense. Like we can play after scores. We can set our defense. Like I think, I don't know if I would pick them to win the rest right now, but I think they're the safest bet to win the West right now. I wouldn't feel great about it, but I have a look. I, I get the concerns about the defense, believe me, but I think their offense is just, I just don't know what you do with it. I don't think there's a way to really stop it for sure.

Yeah, I'm interested and a little bit perplexed. I watch Miami play zone with a very undersized team, and I watch it give teams fits just because of the originalness of it. And I'm surprised more teams don't try to play some form of alternate defense on a regular basis that they can feel comfortable with. I'm not sure Denver –

will or not I think Michael does a great job in every aspect of that team building I'll be interested what they do at the trade deadline but I do think I'm not I'm not sure they have four straight series where they can just line I know people can't guard them because that guy cannot be guarded I would want to see like you know Steven Adams how is he done against him

That's a good name. You know, like I'd be very interested in that. Valanchunas, that would be a hard one for him. Do they have, you know, more belief in like Jackson Hayes or Willie Hernan Gomez? I'm not sure. I just think like,

Jokic is the ticket. The other guys haven't even played great yet. Like Porter missed a lot. Murray up and down. I think they have room even to grow on offense. I do too. I just think the guy is so good. Greg Popovich used to say when we were getting ready to play against him in the World Cup, his belief and their belief in San Antonio was you can never double team him when he can see you.

You have to only come from a side, a blind side that he can't see you. And even then, as you mentioned before, his ability to be a play ahead and know that you're coming not from where they can be seen, but from a blind side. He's just got a supernatural gift of being able to see it and deliver. People talk about him being the best passing center ever. I would say he's one of the top passers ever to play regardless of position.

It it's that that's I said this last week to someone, the best passing big man ever thing. It's over. Like that's done. He's the best passing big man ever. I agree with you that at the end, we're going to regard him. I mean, it sounds crazy to say he's going to be in the conversation with like Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd and John Stockton and LeBron James and Luka Doncic and whoever else you want to name as the best passers of all time. That's how good he is.

I was talking about that with Mark Jackson, who I believe he has the best vision I've ever been around. Mark. Yeah, Mark Jackson. Just had the ability to see a play before the play. And I always tried to ask him, and I still do, how did you know? And he tries to explain it, but I think that's trying to ask an artist to explain their gift to someone who's not gifted, right? So...

I think it's the same way with Jokic. Those type of guys, Stockton to me was like he always was turning his head. He had a great ability in the middle of the floor like to take a quick picture and then know what was happening. Jokic to me, Mark Jackson to me, maybe Magic, Bird, you know, whoever else you want to name, right? They just know like this guy is going to be open. And how they know is just a gift.

It's just a gift. And then to have the ability not only to see a play ahead, but then to have the size and the vision to be able to deliver the ball. That's another gift. You know, so there's to me two separate gifts. There can be guys who could see the play ahead, but just don't have the size and the vision and the touch on their passes to be able to throw it. These guys all do.

Yeah, and you talked about what Pop said. I was like, I haven't seen the defense that can catch Jokic off guard more than once a game yet. And hats off if someone can actually figure out how to do it. On the defense thing, I will say there's been a couple of games this year, just a couple. One was against Memphis, who we're going to talk about next.

where Denver really varied up the ways that used Jokic on defense. And I almost wonder if Michael Malone is now kind of hiding that, waiting for the playoffs to do it again. Like there was that game against Memphis will always stick out to me because, you know, he likes to come up to the level of the screen, right? That's how Jokic likes to play. That's why Denver plays that way. That's his preference. He doesn't like to lay back because he feels like he's not going to be able to stop a guy who's coming at him full speed.

But in that game against Memphis, they went under sometimes against Morant and said, OK, if you can beat us with a jump shot, do it. They went over sometimes against guys who aren't Morant and said, OK, let's let and let's drop back with the old kitchen. See how you do to your point about zone. They've dabbled in zone, but it has been a big part of what what Coach Malone does. But they did the thing in that game where they said, OK, I'm just making this up. Zaire Williams is in the game.

Let's put Jokic on him and put Aaron Gordon on their center or their screen setter and make them just like the Celtics do with Robert Williams in a more sort of aggressive, predatory way. Like it's a weapon for them. They're not hiding him anywhere. I think that's the right. I think that's how they're going to have to play in the playoffs to win four series. And the fact that they've dabbled in it and then kind of stashed it in their back pocket a little bit is interesting to me.

This episode is brought to you by Experian. Are you paying for subscriptions you don't use but can't find the time or energy to cancel them? Experian could cancel unwanted subscriptions for you, saving you an average of $270 per year and plenty of time. Download the Experian app. Results will vary. Not all subscriptions are eligible. Savings are not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. Let's talk about Memphis because I agree with you, and I've said this repeatedly for two months now. They can win the championship.

They're there. They're ready now. They're 30 and 13. They've won 10 games in a row. They're seventh in offense and first in defense. Jaron Jackson Jr. has made a leap across the board. They're healthy now. I still think, and it's going to fall on deaf ears, that they should make a trade.

and trade a little bit for another guy. Just like if I can get a Kuzma or somebody like that to be my seventh guy, I'm doing it because I think they can win it. Maybe they think we can win it anyway. We don't need to do anything. We can win it with...

Our top guys off the bench are Clark and Tyus Jones. And after that, we got your Conchars and Zaire Williamses and David Roddies. And we're good with that. We're cool. We'll roll with that. I think they've been beyond impressive this year. The fact that they're first in defense. What has stuck out to you? What have they done to make you a believer that this is not just...

a young team that wins because a, they care more in the regular season and be their style of play chaos, turnovers, offensive rebounds. You know, the, the sort of old school book was always that stuff won't translate as well to the slowed down playoff game. I think that's overblown and they dispelled that a little bit last year, but what's impressed you that, okay, this team is a four playoff series winner, three playoff series win kind of team. Well, they're,

The numbers will tell you that they have that ability. I like their versatility, the way they can beat you in many ways. I think the offense of rebounding is critical in a playoff series for like them. Bane's health is imperative. Like he's that good. I think Morant gets a lot of credit justly. Bane still sort of slides under the radar and he's a tremendous, tremendous player.

I, like you, I think if they could gather two or three of those guys and turn it into one better guy, I think it would help them more in the playoffs. But they're still going to play 10. You know, they're 10 guys. They're like even in the playoffs. That's what they do. I think right now, especially for a young team, I'm impressed.

Chris Rock, and I love this statement, he said in one of his skits, and it was really good, and I think it's apropos to a lot of teams, sports, he said, you've got to enjoy being the tambourine player. No one wants to see a mad tambourine player. I don't think I know that line. Yeah, you can't always be the lead singer. You've got to enjoy and you've got to be happy playing.

When it's your turn to play the tambourine. And I think in Memphis with a young team, they understand who the lead singers are and they got a bunch of guys who enjoy playing the tambourine and, and they may want more like a lot of players want more and the people around them want more, but they play more.

that tambourine with a smile on their face. And I'm impressed from a young... You could be, if you're Desmond Bain, I want to have my own team or Jaron Jackson Jr. When am I going to get a shot? Or the constantly shuffling wing players. Like I want to play on an everyday basis. I've been impressed. I think Taylor Jenkins is obviously a brilliant basketball coach, but I'm also impressed that

that he can keep that team where they're not fighting the natural order of their roles. And I think that's really hard to do in today's game, and I think he's done it incredibly well. I think a lot of that also should go to Morant because I've said this repeatedly about him. He does not play or carry himself like someone who –

Thinks the whole franchise is his. That everything has to go through him. He's a good cutter. In transition where he could go one on three. Every single possession. He's always waiting around. Looking for trailers. Looking for his teammates. He gets off the ball. And they all know.

And this is – you know this is important. Like they all know he's going – he's giving everything he has all the time. Like he's ferocious. He's competitive. And I think he sets the tone for their team on the floor. Tambourine players, first of all, Stephen Adams would break the tambourine. Like two hits in, that thing is bashed. And he –

He's happy being a roadie. He doesn't even need an instrument. He's happy just sitting on stage carrying the speakers around. I mean, think about their big guys like Clark. Like he could start for many teams. He comes off the bench, plays what, 18, 19, 20 minutes? Plays all out. Xavier Tillman sits over there as the third center. And when they need him, he comes in. And if not, he sits over there and waits his turn. I tell you, I am so impressed.

You know, Tyus Jones, quite frankly, you know, think about it. Last year, they had a better record without Morant than with Morant, which is truly, you just don't see it. And I think it goes to the quality of player Tyus Jones is, but Tyus Jones could be clamoring for his own team. I just, I'm amazed. And you're right. When, when you have good structure, good order and good, like that term, that cliche term chemistry, um,

And if you have bad chemistry, I bet you it's going to be a lot about the stars. But when you have it good, it's about the stars. It's about coaching, recognizing the contributions of the others and not letting their contributions be lost. And it's like, as you mentioned, if you have a star that comports himself as one of the guys, man, does that make it a lot better? And Jaron Jackson...

Look, he still fouls too much. And that's the biggest problem with him and maybe with their team. Like they're going to need him to play a lot of minutes. I think the nerds have noticed what he's doing. I don't know if he's getting enough love in like the big picture national basketball talking points. He's averaging 4.6 blocks per 36 minutes. He is on pace right now. He has blocked 11%.

of all two-point shots, not threes, exclude threes, two-point shots when he's been on the floor. Coach, that's on pace to be the all-time record in the history of the NBA. Now, yes, they did not track block shots in Bill Russell and Will Chamberlain and all that. You have to say that, but there's still been a lot of good shot blockers since then, and he is...

He is everywhere. He's getting these blocks from, like, out of nowhere. Like, these guys are going up for layups, and he's coming in from the three-point arc. Nobody even sees him coming because he covers space so fast, and he's so long. I think he has been, per minute, the best defensive player in the NBA this year. Full stop. And if he plays enough minutes, if he can cut his fouling enough, I think he's the defensive player of the year. Like, he has been absolutely ridiculous, and he's hit another level on offense. Like, I...

Between all the jaw highlights and everything else, I'm not sure Triple J is getting enough love. That guy has been insane. 4.6 blocks per 36 minutes is crazy time. What's full stop mean? Just like no caveats. No like, no if this guy doesn't play, if that guy, no caveats. He's been crazy. He is. And I think, I'm interested, would he block as many shots if he was a five man?

This, like you said it earlier with Robert Williams, sort of playing him on a perimeter guy. It seems counterintuitive that you would want these great shot blockers hanging around the basket involved in the pick and rolls. But I wonder if the freedom to cover ground, like you're saying with Jackson Jr., gives him more time to sort of read the play and cover ground. I'm not sure, but he has been tremendous defensively.

I think sometimes his fouling confounds me because it puts them in his team in harm's way, him in harm's way. But also I think it understates just his value to their team. I think when he takes unnecessary fouls, he's not giving himself enough credit for how good he is and how valuable he is, particularly when we get to the playoffs. Again, when you're beating, let's just say Phoenix by third, right? Their last game.

A mistake here, a mistake there, as far as a foul here, a foul there, really doesn't matter. But I think overall, he has to understand his incredible importance to their team and how good he is. And not just defensively, he has some gifts on offense too. So I'm really, I'm so impressed with them. And I think...

Their shot selection I'm interested in come playoff time. I really am. I'm fascinated to watch them because they're a different sort of team. They play a little bit differently, and I love different. To your point on that, they are –

25th in frequency of three pointers, but eighth in shots at the rim and they are team floater. No one takes more floaters than them. They're great at it. Um, on Jaron Jackson jr. A hundred percent. If you look at the lineup data for his entire career, basically the common denominator and all their best lineups, all of them is Jaron Jackson jr. Like it's, he needs to be on the floor 35 minutes a game in the playoffs for them to get where they think, um, they can go. Um,

But let's talk about a team that it's remarkable they haven't come up in our Western Conference sort of like, what are they doing talk here? I just can't figure out the Warriors. I don't remember ever a team like this that just won the championship. So expectations are by definition high. They brought almost everybody back. Gary Payton Jr. and Otto Porter are big losses. All their young players are other than Wiseman have gotten better. And even Wiseman has shown signs he's not playing right now.

And they just, you keep waiting for the run. You keep waiting for it all clicked now. Curry's back. Wiggins is back. Here it comes. And then they go to Chicago and it's like they're down the whole game. And then they took a lead and then they were down again. They lost it immediately. They can't get stops. They're 16th in defense, 15th in offense. Average defense.

average across the board they still foul the hell out of everybody and they're dead last in free throw eight on offense by the way so they're just starting every game down six nothing they have hideous turnover after hideous turnover and yet i'm just going to hint at it now there are signs that we're not crazy to be waiting for the run to start and the signs are not just what we know the warriors are awesome they won the championship there are actual signs under the hood here that are encouraging and

But I watched them last night in Washington. They need a late rally. Now Clayton played back-to-back, all that, to beat the Wizards. I thought that Bulls game was just like, are you guys ever going to do this? Where are you on the Warriors? Because I'm just confounded every game. Well, the discrepancy between home and road and defense home and road. 17-5 and 5-17. It's like, what are we doing here? Now, some of that was without Curry, but they lost to some –

you know, some of the worst teams in the league on the road. So I give them the benefit of the doubt because I believe Curry is that great that eventually he will drag them into the playoffs. They have the best, like one of the best two-way players who plays every night. And Anthony Lamb has just been

You know, Ty Jerome hasn't played as much lately, but he has been great as a two way player. I think those guys are better than have played and have been every bit as valuable to the Warriors as their young trio of guys, Wiseman and Moody, which is either really good or really bad, depending on your perspective, uh,

I like their team. They just haven't played well. Like sometimes it just comes down to, I think maybe when you watch them, they can't generate the every night enthusiasm it takes to play against, to win in this league, regardless of the names on the back of the Jersey. It takes an energy and intensity and a passion because last year I thought it was the most in my, whatever it is, 30 years around the NBA, uh,

or 33, whatever it is. It was the most confounding championship I've seen. I had them. I didn't think they were very good. And then somehow through the draw through, you know, Memphis and then like getting to the finals. And I think Boston's a lot better than them. And, and,

Then Curry goes into game five and basically on his own just snatches victory from defeat. Game four in Boston. I'm sorry, game four. I just – I got to say, I still can't believe they won it last year. So has any – you know, they have lost some valuable pieces, but I think the West is like – even though they're really good teams –

I think the Warriors, if they got there, would feel comfortable in playing against Denver and Memphis and New Orleans. They're not scared of any of those. I mean, I can tell you they are not scared of any of those. They should be scared of themselves right now because you can convince yourself, like Klay Thompson keeps saying, I have no worries. I have no worries. I have no worries. And I guarantee you Steve Kerr has concerns. And I think being concerned isn't a sign of weakness. It's actually a sign of

intelligence, that there are things we need to correct. It's not, we're really good. We've proven we're really good individually, collectively, but it's got to translate. And it's not a, it's a this year thing. It's, you don't get any bonus points for winning it in the past. And so I think Draymond Green has mentioned his concern level, like

Confidence and concern. I think that's what they should be striving for as a group because they obviously have earned their confidence, but they've also should have earned a concern that their results should be driving. It's funny. I guess how we perceived them going into last year, both before the season and in the playoffs, informs still us.

How we perceive them now. Because I was high on them last year. At the beginning of the year. And I was high on them when the playoffs started. And I picked them to win the finals in seven.

And so I'm more optimistic about them now. And, and I, I didn't find their championship run as, as, as surprising maybe as you did. But that's, I'm, I'm saying like, I have to check myself. Like that is still maybe informing my perception of this team, which is distinct from that team. Um,

And I agree with you. Draymond just talked about urgency. We just don't have the urgency, blah, blah, blah. It's okay. You're 22-22. They've played, by the way, the third easiest schedule in the league. The Clippers, I forgot to mention this, have played the easiest schedule in the league. So you can like... Yeah, we're playing for April, May, June. You got to get into May. You have to actually get into May. And yet...

I'm still waiting for the run. And Curry's that good again. I think he's the second. Jokic is the most underrated guy to me. Curry is second. We, we talked just about his shooting, like his overall dominance and how he, like to me, what he did in the finals last year, I didn't think anybody else played particularly well. I just thought he snatched, like he was so great.

On the road, I'm just – it was, to me, it was one of the great performances. And I just think he continues to be – you know, everybody talks about his pregame routine and his shooting and it's all this, right? But I think people undersell, like, his finishing, his rebounding as a guard. Like, I just think they overlook some things about him that –

belie the smile on his face. Like, this is a tough competitor who is one of the best players you could ever hope to see. And you can make the case to meet year in and year out. You can make a strong case. He's been the most valuable player in the league over the past decade. I just think their other guys are good, but good. I mean, he is the great

And I just don't think we talk about his greatness enough, his overall greatness, and how he's really pulled what was, I thought, an under-talented team last year in Golden State to win it. That was terrific. Well, I remember I ran into you before Game 6, and I asked, how are you feeling, Coach? And you said, I think I'm just going to keep picking Boston until someone else is lifting the trophy. That was a really tough matchup.

For the Warriors. And to your point about... Yeah, their defense, like in that game six, they were the real deal. Like, that's, I think, what is confounding right now. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I just think like that defense, that defensive component that they could always rely on. And maybe that ties directly to health, passion, whatever the loss of Peyton and Porter. Peyton and Porter have played like...

50 minutes this entire year like it's it's for the year you know and and Peyton is you know whatever so anyway I I just think their defense if they can recapture that defensive intensity Curry I have no doubt will dominate a series yeah the defense is and that Bulls game is it illustrates it and there have been a million other games like this where they just can't

They can't string together 10 straight minutes of good defense. Like there's always missed coverages. Draymond's always yelling at someone for blowing a switch or not switching or going under when they should go. And it's just not Warriors-y. And then you throw in all the turnovers and all the fouls and they're just shooting themselves in the foot. And about that finals, you're right. Like if you talk about what Warriors were continuously good from game one to game six, it's Curry, Wiggins, Looney probably,

And maybe Otto Porter, Klay was up and down. Draymond was up and down. Poole kind of sneaky got played out of a lot of that series. I think he played like 15 minutes a game in the finals. Everyone's like, what a great playoff run Poole had. He had a good playoff run. And at the end against the biggest, baddest, best team, they didn't trust him to be on the floor all that much, particularly with their other guards. So here's why I'm still buying. I don't know. I mean, other than the fact that they're the Warriors. You mentioned Lamb.

If you look at the numbers, DiVincenzo, who's been very good for them, Kaminga and Poole without Curry is plus three and a half per hundred possessions. You throw in Lamb as another dependable bench guy. The Draymond on Curry off is now plus two or two and a half per 100 possessions. The Curry on off splits are not as dramatic anymore.

as they were and i think there's all of this points to when they've excised some of their like moody barely plays anymore i'm disappointed in him wiseman's out and he's not playing when they when they have their starting five which i mentioned before still has the best plus minus of any lineup in the nba plus di vincenzo cominga pool lamb and they stagger their starters the right way it's a good team

And it might be a great, I think it's probably still a great team in there somewhere. The numbers say it's all trending the right way. And that's why I keep saying I'm waiting for the run to start because under the hood, the numbers are suggesting like, there's still a good team in here. There's still a good team and there's still a good team here. We just have to see it. And they've earned the benefit of the doubt with me. Like, I think we are going to see it despite the fact that their schedule gets tougher as the season goes on and their negative point differential and all that.

I think this is still a really good team that if you told me, you know, they're 22 and 22, they're four games out of fourth. If you told me at the end of the season, we wake up and they're the fourth seed, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Now, other than that, above that is going to be hard to get to. I just don't think they care. They just care about getting out of the play-in. And I'm betting on them getting out of the play-in, which...

you know, sack new Orleans, Memphis, Denver are so far ahead that there's, you're talking about, you've just got to get to sixth or fifth. Like it's not like there are a lot of guaranteed out of the play in spots out there. I'm still betting on them though. The plan. And I think they're probably a little concerned about the plan because they lost in the play on play in with Curry, right? So they, to Memphis and who'd they lose to in the first one, I think it was one of the LA teams. They lost. And so they,

The play-in is a precarious position to place yourself in. Once they get to the playoffs, if Curry's healthy, I don't know if you have to be a great team to come out of the West. I think what you have to be is consistently very good. And I think the Warriors haven't shown this year they can be consistently very good. But like you, if they can get their defense right and Curry's healthy,

It's a tough out. There's going to be a lot of people nervous trying to play them in the first round. And I think Wiggins, he missed a lot of time, and I think he's still getting his feet back under him. I think he'll go on a good stretch. I don't know about you, Coach. I think Draymond is having an underrated, really good season. He's doing his triple single thing, like 8, 7, and 7. 50% from the floor, 58% on twos. I think his defense has been...

Pretty much almost as, you know, not quite like four or five years ago, Draymond, where he was just a monster, but still all defense level good. He's getting that quarterback keeper play like two times a game now. Fools everybody. I think he's had a really strong season. Like, and Klay's gotten better as the season has gone on. I don't know. Maybe I'm a little Pollyanna-ish on the Warriors, but I think a run is coming. We should talk about in the East. We kind of skirted over Boston last.

And our Milwaukee pick and whether we regret that. Boston, I've talked about enough on this podcast. They're awesome. Everybody knows they're awesome. And Time Lord has changed the dynamic of their team since coming back. And once they get Jalen Brown back and they have Robert Williams, I think is probably going to end up starting for them again. They're going to be really, I mean, the depth and the size is just, forget the offense, which is still number one in the NBA. The depth and the size is just,

It's a bear. They're a bear. I want to talk about Philly, who is kind of sneaking up on people now. They are up to fourth in the East, tied with the Bucs in the loss column, a game out of Brooklyn for second. They're 11th in offense...

and fourth in defense and 11th in offense undersells it if they're a half a point out of sixth. So if they were sixth in offense and fourth in defense, we'd be like, oh my God, this is a championship game.

um a championship monster waiting um laying in wait they are plus 10 per 100 possessions with Embiid and Harden on the floor Harden like Draymond is having an underrated season I Bill Simmons just dismissed him flatly as an all-star candidate with me and I tried to make the case for Harden I think he's been really good defensively yes I know um and now I I sent you this link coach um

They're going to... Doc Rivers is going to try this thing where there's been all this noise about should Maxie come off the bench? Can you defend well enough with Maxie and Harden on the floor? Or should they go the other way and try Harden, Maxie, Melton all together in certain matchups when maybe P.J. Tucker isn't as essential as he is against maybe, you know, Durant or whoever you want to say. And Doc Rivers in the last game started Melton and brought Maxie off the bench and then said afterwards...

We have three different starting lineups now that we're going to rotate between games. And if you look at all their core lineups, because they haven't beat on the floor, are all really, really good. And we can, I mean, two of those lineups, we just said what they are. I'm guessing the third one will be the three guard lineup with Tucker coming off the bench, maybe. I think that's really interesting. Not a lot of teams have ever tried that.

I think I was high on this team at the beginning with the caveat that I do not trust Harden in a big playoff game. And that's why I will never pick them to come out of the East until they're actually coming out of the East. I think they look awesome. And all the attention on Boston and Brooklyn's crazy season and all that. I think it's time to start looking at Philly as a serious threat. I guess I have to say to get out of the East, even though I just said I can't trust Harden in a big game. What have you noticed from them? Well, they're an outstanding team. Defensively,

Embiid is such a good anchor. They're big. Melton, I think, has helped in that way. I'm interested. I did a Philly game earlier in the year, and you never know when you're talking to people from a team because they always lie to you about their players and what good guys they are and whatever. But unanimously, they all said that

Maxie was a ray of sunshine and that he was, he will do anything. He was a great worker, just upbeat, whatever you want, he'll do. And for him to be in this all-star sort of push, take an injury and now sort of give consent that he'd be fine coming off the bench. I think we underplay that because it goes right back to role acceptance and

And maybe others on a team won't accept change and sacrifice. And what he's done, I think, has given Doc Rivers the license to try things that he thinks may give them their best chance to win it all without being so worried about hurting feelings. That if a guy as important as Maxie is willing to go along with it, that...

it emboldens a coach to really try to do what he thinks is best. And so because of that type of attitude, I think they have a really good chance. I think Embiid, everybody says about Harden down the stretch of close playoff games. I think everybody should check out Embiid's numbers in the fourth. I think Harden sometimes, I think we forget, Harden has taken his teams further than Embiid has. So I think the pressure is,

Yes, it's forehardened to deliver, most certainly, but Embiid as well. Simmons sort of took them all off with the overanalyzed one play, sort of took them all off the hook. I thought they should have been taking Simmons off the hook. They didn't. The other players sort of put him on the hook. They should have accepted, to me, more responsibility.

you know, just, hey, listen, we all could have done better. And I just think some people, and I don't really know why this is, some people we let off maybe because we like them,

Others we hold to account maybe more than we should. I don't know. It's interesting. Yeah, I guess I would amend my heart and thing. He's had plenty of big, big playoff games. I guess I say I'll never trust him in an elimination game until I see him do it. It's the elimination games that have been rough, and he's just been such a shrinking violin in too many of those games. And you're right about Embiid. You can pin it maybe on he just seems to get a fluky, like broken face injury at the wrong time every playoffs.

But he has not played as well for much of the postseason as he has in the regular season. Now, I think if he can stay healthy and avoid those fluky injuries and they keep giving him chances, I think a monster Joel Embiid playoff run is going to happen. I just think I understand how playing out of the post is really hard and playoff defenses are really creative and all this. I still think it's coming.

I think his two-man game with Harden is as good as advertised. And they're playing him at the elbow a lot more, which makes it a lot less – it makes it – if you have a game up there versus just in the low post, it makes it a little bit easier. So it'll be interesting. I'm just saying I think Embiid's talent, his defense, his ability to get to the free throw line, all of that is top notch. But he has to come through.

uh in the most important times and i'm just saying like if you look at his numbers again we always talk injuries i'm just talking about what has actually occurred it's not been as good as you would have expected for how good a player he is um and that being said he's had huge games and huge moments that buzzer beater um against toronto last season stands out and all that um

The Harden and Bede two-man game has been unbelievable since they got Harden. I've been on the Sixers that they need to have a little bit more juice to their half-court offense, a little bit more connectivity, a little bit more it's not always your turn, my turn. And the pick and roll is that connectivity, but sometimes it's got to be how you get into it or the next thing that comes after it.

I think they've been a little better about that lately. And the greatness of those two guys can just take you a long way because it's hard to switch that play. And Embiid has mastered that little 12, 13 foot jump shot. We've seen in the playoffs that teams are going to be more aggressive taking that away, taking away his, even him catching it there. They're going to make the Sixers shooters shoot. They might even make Harden drive and dare him to finish a little bit rather than let Embiid catch the ball in the paint. But Embiid,

Between their starting five, whoever it is, whoever of Maxie and Melton is coming off the bench, Shaq Milton, George Niang has been great for them. Harrell is a viable backup center, and so is Paul Reed. And Theibel has started to play his way back into the rotation now, and maybe in select doses you use him. They have nine, ten guys that it's a really good team. And they're starting to sneak up the standings, and they're starting to be one of these teams that has, like, okay, their top five.

six, seven, eight on both ends of the floor. And Embiid is that good? Like how the seating shake out in the East and how the playoff matchups look, God willing, everyone's healthy is going to be really, really fascinating because all these teams are really, really good. But I agree with you. If you had to pick one right now, it'd be Boston, but I'm sticking with Milwaukee because I guess I, I'm a prisoner to my preseason pick. I picked Bucks Clippers. I don't feel great about it, but that's what I picked. Yeah. I think,

The 4-5 matchup in the East. One team, whoever loses, is going to be ultimately so disappointed because I don't see whoever makes it to the top three, I don't see them being challenged in the first round. I think there's that big a line of demarcation. But that 4-5...

You could have had this great regular season and been really good. And you're there's, there's going to be a loser and that person, that team is going to feel awful. Whereas I think in the Western conference, even though you're one of the top seeds, just because, you know, if you match up against Luka Doncic in the first round,

You're going to be on edge and, you know, Curry and even the Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, if they, you know, choose to play together at that point of the year, they're able to play together at that point of the year.

You're going to be like, you mean we've worked this hard? We're the number one seed and we're playing the Warriors in the first round? This is why I'm a big proponent of the number one seed should get to pick its own first round opponent for this exact reason. I love that idea, by the way. There has to be benefit just because of the malaise that

so many people put on the regular season. There has to be more of a reward for going out there. Why not just let them all pick? First pick, you know, you're the first seed, you get to pick. Second gets to pick next, third. And then, you know, four or five is what it is. Speaking of four or five, that'd be Philly Cleveland right now. We didn't talk about Cleveland. Give me your 32nd minute take. Are you a believer that Cleveland can win the East this year?

No, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're really good. Okay. And I think they need more. Just like I think Philly may take that whole bench, if they could consolidate it into one better overall player, I think they might be better. I think Cleveland's bench might be the same too. I really like what they've done. Kobe Altman, JB Bickerstaff, to rebuild –

what was really a team left in the morass of, and be able to take, you know, Sexton and marketing and trade and, you know, Garland then becomes the true point guard. You, you pair him with Mitchell, which I still can't believe that they were able to do that. Right. They got Donovan Mitchell. So they got him to, to, you know, Jared Allen, who I really like as a center player.

Again, he is to me like a guy who no ego, but just competes and rolls and does his thing night in and night out. And Mobley, I like as a player. I think finding that fifth guy, who it is, who fits best. So I think they've got some more work. I'd be surprised if they won a first round series against any of those teams.

Uh, but if they can get themselves up to third, then I think they would win a first round series. So it really, to me, depends on getting out of that four or five matchup. And that's why the Durant injury was such a big deal for Brooklyn because they looked pretty insulated from, from that. And, um,

They are no longer insulated from that, despite the cushion that they built up with him. Jeff Van Gundy, where you're, you're on Dallas. Who does Dallas have? You're going to Dallas. Who we got? Atlanta and Miami, who are both interesting teams as well. They're,

They're very interesting. They played a very interesting game yesterday on Martin Luther King Day. Miami Furious Rally fell short, and the Hawks have gotten a couple of much-needed wins given the instability there. Lots to talk about. We'll check in with you maybe before the playoffs. Jeff Van Gundy, the best in the business. Thank you for lending us time as always, sir. Take care.