Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast Thursday afternoon. One week from the NBA trade deadline. People like the trade deadline better than they like basketball, which is ironic because the players who are going to get traded are...
are being traded to play basketball. And all of the chatter in the last month has been, when will the Bulls decide what to do? When will the Raptors decide what to do? What will the Lakers decide to do with these hallowed first round picks and Russell Westbrook, six man of the year candidate, Russell Westbrook? How are they really going to waste LeBron's prime? And I wanted to bring Kevin Pelton on because you are one of the preeminent fake trade artists of the NBA. Yeah.
media sphere you have worked for an nba team you actually know how the salary cap rules work which i think is valuable and you like even will catch a mistake that i make every once in a while i wanted to go over with you some under the radar trade deadline wild card teams we all know the first domino could be toronto and this and that and all the and the bulls and will they blow it up i want to hit on some other interesting teams but first i have a question to spring on are you ready
I am ready. You did no prep for this. I want you to have a passionate answer. In six hours, the All-Star reserves will be announced. Who are you preemptively angry about getting left off one of the teams? Who is the snub that if this person is snubbed, it will actually be a snub that will infuriate you, Seattle Kraken fan number one, Kevin Pelton?
So I think it's got to be one of the guys with injuries, basically, that we're going to look back on and say, wait, we really were that concerned over the fact that this guy missed 15 games in the first half of the season. So it probably has to come from the Western Conference front court. I mean, the fan voting already took Zion out of the equation, but
Like if somehow Anthony Davis didn't make it, that to me would be pretty infuriating. I don't know if you feel like that's a realistic possibility. Him not making it? I feel like it is a realistic possibility. I mean, I don't know how the coaches will vote. I don't know which coaches actually vote and who farms it out to their fourth assistant coaches and how many of those guys pay attention and all that. So Anthony Davis is your choice over Zion, over – well, Zion made it – over Jaron Jackson Jr.?
Yeah, Jaren Jackson Jr. is tough because I feel like, you know, my philosophy on all stars tends to be much more. Let's pick the best players. Then let's pick who's having the best season. And I feel like so you can overcome, you know, if you're like certainly first timers can deserve it. And certainly players who have missed time during the first half of the season can deserve it.
If you have the combination of both of those, if you're playing at an all-star level for the first time and missed time, I feel like that's kind of the challenge. Yeah, to be clear, I brought up Triple J not because of the fake Reddit conspiracy, but because that he has actually played fewer minutes than I think still Zion Williamson. If not, it's close and definitely fewer than AD. What about that? I voted for AD as a starter.
So that's how strongly I feel about his case, because, you know, in terms of the wins above replacement player metric that I have, he was still ahead of some of these guys who have played substantially more minutes, you know, even while he was sidelined leading up to that. I didn't know you were...
You were just part of the Lakers media propaganda machine. Well, I think there are going to be some questions about whether I'm part of that later in this podcast, but we'll get to that. What about Devin Booker falling into the same boat of, we all know this guy's an all-star, but he's only played 1,000 minutes. You're more furious about Anthony Davis than Devin Booker?
Yes, in part because one of the things I feel like has changed in the last few weeks since we started having this all-star conversation is to me, Anthony Edwards is getting more to the point now where we might get to the end of the season. And if he doesn't make it, be like, how did this guy not make the all-star team? There was a year where Steph didn't make it early on in his breakout and ended up all NBA, right? Am I remembering that correctly? It would have had to have been...
13 or 12, 13, probably 12, 13. Cause that's the year they end up pushing the spurs in the second round of the playoffs and beating the nuggets in the first round of the playoffs. And after that, it's just, you know, one great year after another. Yeah. My answer to this question, I'm getting preemptively upset preemptively. I don't even know if I have reason to be upset, but I'm already priming myself to be angry that bam out of bio is left off the Eastern conference team. What is your reaction to that? Should he be on it? Or am I irrational about driving the bam wagon?
I am probably relatively lower on Bam Adebayo's candidacy even than Jimmy Butler on his own team. I mean, certainly deserves a lot of credit for carrying the offense the way that he has this period of time. But one of the things that I weigh heavily into this is it has never been easier for
centers to put up good offensive statistics than it is in the league right now. I mean, you know, you look at the East center debate and Nick Claxton's rolling it. And I think that's a, that's a good example where he's shooting like 80% from the field. So, you know, the board to be a productive offensive center has never been as high in the NBA as it is right now. So I'm probably a little lower on BAM's candidacy.
Well, Nick Claxton has Kevin Durant until recently and Kyrie Irving passing him the ball and Ben Simmons doing nothing but passing other people the ball and getting in people's way. Bam Adebayo is out there with like sometimes Jimmy Butler and Tyler Hero, but sometimes like even casual NBA fans would be like, these dudes play for the heat? Like this is the roster of a playoff team? And Bam's been the Iron Man all season long, the only constant presence. So I'm going to be angry. I would pick him over Jimmy Butler. I had them both.
On my personal 12-man all-star team where I ignore the fan vote, ignore the starters and just sort of start from scratch. I had them both in as reserved. So I think both are deserving. Jimmy Butler just said no-brainer like this guy's one of the 15, one of the 12 best players in the Eastern Conference. All right. Well, we'll see. Is there anyone you're going to be mad if they make it?
No, I don't think they'd beat him. I would be mad if they make it. I thought, by the way, the guy you might say was Tyrese Halliburton, but do we consider him a lock despite his injury? I will be shocked if he doesn't make it. Okay. I'm just assuming he's going to make it. He's going to be back relatively soon. I can't remember if the timetable is soon enough to play in the All-Star game, but that's a case where it's like you just name him an All-Star so you can say I'm an All-Star. Then you injury replace him with...
Maybe I'm out of bio. I don't know. Okay, trade deadline time. A week away. Chatter's picking up. Still not super loud out there. And I went through all the teams that we know of as sort of controlling the tenor of the trade deadline. But I wanted to zero in on some teams that I think are wild cards, not because...
Wild cards because they could do lots of different things in lots of different directions and they haven't necessarily been like at the forefront of the trade conversations. Can I guide us and pick the first one? Go for it. And I know they were on your list. I think the Phoenix Suns might be the single biggest wild card of the entire trade deadline outside these teams that are the first domino teams. The Suns got waxed last night. Who did they play? I can't even remember. I forgot already.
Atlanta. Atlanta. Atlanta. Wax the Suns. But the Suns before that had won like six of eight or something to kind of repair their season and get back over 500. Here's the obvious reasons that they're a wild card. New incoming owner who, according to Woj and Baxter Holmes, will have control of the team.
By the time of the trade deadline, Robert Sarver, bye-bye. And from all I've heard about Matt Ishbia is he wants to win. He wants to win now. I've seen other places talk about the Suns need to blow it up. It's over. Trade Chris Paul. Move on to a new era. From everything I've heard, this guy doesn't want to do that.
They have all their own picks, all the swaps, all that. They have a mercurial. I don't think I've said the word mercurial out loud in my life until right now. A mercurial. Also fitting for the Suns and their sister team, the Mercury.
Starting center on a max contract, DeAndre Ayton, who nobody really seems to like all that much anywhere. I'm kind of like higher on DeAndre Ayton, but he can also veto trades. And then they have a giant age gap between their two best players, Devin Booker and Chris Paul. I think...
The reason they're interesting to me is you have to blow it up extreme over here, which I don't think they're going to do. You have the obvious kind of win now deal, which the typical contract is picks and a young guy for a veteran who comes in and helps my team. And they'll be linked to OGN and OB, who is the hottest name, I think, in the discourse. I wouldn't even say on the market, but just in the discourse for the last month. And then you have this middle ground of like,
Can we reorient our team while not taking a step back now and maybe in fact taking a step forward now and just kind of redirecting where our franchise goes going forward? And Phoenix is in position to make that kind of trade with Aiton,
Or even Chris Paul. Let me be clear. I don't think they're trading Chris Paul. I've heard nothing about trading Chris Paul. In fact, I've heard the opposite. But they are in position to sort of reorient their team with those kinds of middle ground trades. And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that and if you thought of any such middle ground trades.
Well, I was kind of annoyed a few weeks ago because one of the exercises I always do this time of year is the dunked on NBA basketball podcast mock trade deadline. And I got assigned the Suns and had been thinking for a long period of time, what if they try to trade Chris Paul for Fred Van Vliet? And that's that sort of trade where potentially makes you better now, depending how you feel about Chris Paul's
performance and he's been better lately so it you know is compared to when I first started thinking at this trade it's no longer such a no-brainer for them he's been better lately but even last night against the Hawks here comes the one for six for two points performance and those have been less frequent in the last 10 days 10 games since he came back
The 22 points in 10 assist games have been more frequent, but like until this year, Chris Paul never had the one of six game for two points. Like that was just never a thing. So it's weird that it's still happening.
Yeah. And, and then obviously gets you a younger point guard. That's more on the timeline of your other players. Like one thing I think that's changed that makes me think the suns should be very aggressive at this deadline is there was, you know, this period of time where the sun's not as explicitly as the warriors, but we're kind of pursuing that two timeline schedule.
where we're winning right now on Chris Paul's timeline, but we're also, we also think we can contend down the road with this core led by Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton, Mikael Bridges, maybe Cam Johnson. And Ayton's, you know,
I guess, in terms of play and who knows how much of that is just being unhappy in Phoenix, not having the same kind of set up play from Chris Paul and with Devin Booker also being out of the lineup for such a long period of time. Who knows what those factors are, but I don't think you can look at it and say anymore that this core going forward is still a contender even as Chris Paul ages out. And that's why I think you would have to be aggressive leading up to the deadline.
So give me some fake trades. Give me some plays. I have some too. The issue is, as with all these trades, and I can't wait to talk about Portland because they're one of my other wildcard, your Pacific Northwest neighbors out there. If you're trading Aiton,
As cute as it is that they seem to win every time they start Bismack Biambo at center and that Chris Paul and Devin Booker could maybe make me into a rim running center somehow, they're that good. You need to get a center back for DeAndre Ayton, who's actually good. And you can look at and say,
We don't have to hold our nose starting this guy 50 times a season. Like you need a real center on your team that can play both ends of the court. That's one of the challenges. And I'm interested to see how, and if your fake trades answer that challenge.
I mean, not specifically because the one that I had involving Aiton that is on ESPN.com today, and I think it's probably a good fair fake trade because I think both fan bases are probably unhappy about it, is Aiton to Toronto with two first round picks and a swap for Pascal Siakam. Oh, for Siakam. I thought for sure it was going to be Ananobi.
No, because Siakam, you can go more play five out lineups, use a front court of Siakam, Cam Johnson, Bridges, switch everything. That to me is a really intriguing construction. So you still probably would need a center and would probably have to try to get one by trading Jay Crowder as part of that deal. But it wouldn't necessarily be a center that you'd be expecting to finish games. You can even throw Kem Birch in there or something, but that complicates the salary. Yeah.
Phoenix, of course, is what? $15 million over the tax, right? So they're going to be cognizant of that, of adding money. And I think I screwed up my fake trade because I put Toronto under the tax by having them take back Sharich in addition to Aiden. But surely that's something we could resolve with a third team. Yeah, I was going to say, all these trades, like I looked at Portland trades, Portland is $67,000 under the tax. They're a Tesla under the tax. Yeah.
And like a lot of my fake trades put them literally, I have one that puts them $225,000 over the tax. You can get, there are ways to resolve things. Anything sub 2 million, you just shove some stuff around and you get out of it. So that's your, that's your Phoenix. That's your eight and trade. You have any other Phoenix ones?
Well, the one that I wanted to do, and I was bummed when John Hollinger of The Athletic proposed this on the Dunked On podcast before I had a chance to make it, is some sort of a three-team construction that ends up with Chris Paul with the Clippers, Van Vliet and Phoenix, and...
stuff in Toronto. I don't, you know, it depends what the exact formulation of that is. Cause the Clippers can send back a lot of matching salary. Now the question then becomes, do the Clippers have enough, you know, in terms of their picks and young players that they can just trade for Fred Van Vliet instead of being the middleman in this trade. So this is okay, but this is a good time to have the Toronto discussion anyway. Um,
Toronto has been putting out this line. You see it all over the media. Well, this road trip, this seven-game road trip is going to tell the story of the season and tell us what to do at the trade deadline. Well, the seven-game road trip is five games in. They're two and three on the seven-game road trip. Their games left are at Houston and at Memphis. And despite the fact that Memphis has lost six out of seven, and we should probably talk about them at some point, let's assume they go one-on-one. So they finished the road trip three and four.
The Raptors right now are 23 and 30, 23 and 30. There are three games behind the Bulls who are in 11th, not even 10th. The Raptors are two games in the loss column ahead of the Orlando Magic. Let me repeat that. Should we keep this team together and make a run? Raptors are two games ahead of the Orlando Magic, right?
The Raptors are toast. This team is not going to work. There is no 20 and five finishing kick coming. It's just a broken team that I was totally wrong about. By the way, I can't crow about it. I thought they were going to be good. I told people to hit the over totally wrong. Something is wrong with their team. We can talk about what we think that is, but I've been saying this for a month. The idea has long been over.
That this team has a run in it. This team does not have a run in it. I don't think now you can proceed with the belief that with one little move here and there, you can position this team to be a 48 win team next year. That's fine. You don't need to tear it all down. But your number one assumption should be this season is over for us. What do you see when you see the Raptors? Why do you think it's why do you think it's not working?
Well, last year, you know, it felt like they were able to cause enough turnovers to make that gambling defense work. And that's something we've seen over time in the NBA. I mean, you think back to Jason kids, first season in Milwaukee, where they were playing the most aggressive defense in the entire NBA worked for a year and
then whether it was other teams figuring it out or shooting regression some combination of those like those defenses were never at that same level and like it's shocking how good toronto's offense is all things considered given that they don't have the you know traditional like
superstar engine of the offense. Siakam is certainly a very good offensive player, so is Fred Van Vliet, but it's kind of doing it by committee on offense and they're good. The defense just hasn't been the same. I don't feel like they're fundamentally broken, but what I would say is they're on the runway. But broken is harsh. I just don't think this particular season, it's just not going to work.
Yeah, they're out of runway. Like there's seventh and point differential. I think that they would probably in the East, I should say, not overall in the league. I think that going forward, they'd probably be better than a 500 team. But as you said, they're on 12th. They have to pass a lot of teams, multiple teams just to make the play in. And then just being in the play in is not actually all that valuable, I think, to a team like Toronto. There are some teams...
where being in the play-in is a huge deal. I don't think Masai Ujiri is valuing that as much. No. And I look at the Raptors, and I've spent time up there, and I've watched the team a lot. I look at them as just something is... Sometimes you know when you see it. Something is just wrong with their team. Something is just not translating. The parts add up to less than their sum. And I don't exactly know why that is. You know, there's certainly...
I think there could be some sort of chemistry issues that have been hinted at and talked about in the media. But I also wonder what you think of Scottie Barnes, OGN and Obi, and Pascal Siakam. They all bring different things to the table, but...
When they have the ball, they're all kind of similar in that they just kind of like to burrow in. Like they take a while sometimes. Like give me the ball at the top, half spin, half spin. Let me use my physicality. I have six seconds have gone by. And like if a double comes, I'll kick it out. And if a double doesn't come, I'll try and do one of my spinny shots if I'm Pascal or a power layup or something or a floater or a push shot if I'm Scottie Barnes. And I just watch them and I'm like –
That's one too many guys who like to play that way. Just one too many guys who like to play that way. And that's why over the last month, when a lot of defensives has decided, Scottie Barnes can't shoot. We're going to put our centers on him and just treat him like Ben Simmons. And the Raptors responded immediately to Nick Nurse's credit and to Scottie Barnes's credit. We're going to use him as our pick and roll screener then. Forget everything else. Just use him as a screener. Fred Van Vliet, Pascal, Gary Trent, whoever turns the corner. They got a runway. Scottie can roll into space and become a distributor.
And that was an interesting and has been an interesting look for them. But that stylistic redundancy kind of I just I think it's one of several reasons why something is just not right in the water there.
It's interesting. The last time I was on here, I think, was when the Scotty Barnes discourse had reached its crescendo. And you look at that moment, it's basically the exact dividing line where all of a sudden he started playing again. And you and I were both Scotty Barnes optimists even then when it was at its nadir and they were getting raked over the coals for years.
reportedly allegedly not making available for Kevin, Kevin Durant. I was going to say Kevin Garnett, which I think is true that they would not have. I don't even know if Brooklyn gave them the opportunity to really make him available. And since then you and I were both like, this guy's 20 and 21 years old on a weird team. Just give it time. And since then he's really popped. So on Toronto, you mentioned Fred Van Vliet to the Clippers. Here's my gut. Gut. Number one, gut. Number one,
And I say gut because this is the time of year, as you know, of misinformation and half right intel whispers that get mistranslated from one source to the other. Here's my. So all you can do is sift through all that information. Every conversation you have with agents, front office people, coaches, players, whoever, and just say, OK, this is this is how I'm interpreting this sometimes contradictory batch of information. Here's my gut. The Clippers can't get Fred Van Vliet without including Terrence Mann.
I don't think Kennard plus a draft pick and the Clips can trade one first round pick plus something else is going to get it done. Maybe that ends up being wrong, but that's my gut. And I know this, the Clippers really do not want to trade Terrence Mann. Thoughts on that?
I think it's understandable. I mean, you know, the man at point guard lineups have been largely with Kawhi and Paul George on the court, given their timing, but they've been very good. And like, I think the theory of that lineup makes a lot of sense with what the Clippers, the way they want to play offensively in terms of having the ball in George and Kawhi's hands, even if they could probably use
a Chris Paul type on offense to compliment them. And then defensively where it makes them, you know, is, is switchable as they can be on the perimeter.
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My gut is if you force me to bet yes or no on this question, I'm queasy, but I'm betting yes. I think they're going to trade OGN and OB.
I just, it's just, it's no, I have no hard reporting that that's more likely than not. I have no hard reporting on precisely what teams X, Y, and Z have all offered and what Toronto wants this, this, you know, reported three first round picks. Maybe, maybe that's what they've asked one team for. Maybe some, some teams say, well, they never asked us for that. I don't have no idea what the real story is. It just feels like to me because of that redundancy, um,
that I talked about before because of the team just not working because of these constant rumors that he's not thrilled with his role there. I, and because they could get something good for him now, now they could get something good for him in the off season, but he effectively becomes an expiring deal after the season. That's actually, that actually is one of the reasons why he might be a little harder to trade than, than people think because whoever is getting him has to be really, really confident that they're going to be able to resign him.
And part of being really confident that you're going to be able to resign him is, well, if he is in any way unhappy with his role as what do you think is the option 3.5 in the Raptors starting lineup, sometimes option four or 4.5 when Gary Trent's really going off. If he's unhappy with that, we got to be able to give him something better than that.
Or we're going to face the same flight risk that the Raptors may face in six months if they keep him. All that said, I just think something in my gut thinks he's going to move. That's all.
I mean, there's just like enough smoke out there that I think that's some part of it. But yeah, I mean, the timing makes sense. His value seems to be at a peak in terms of trading him. I mean, I think if you're going to make the case that they should consider Siakam instead of Ananobi, besides the fact that it would move Ananobi up in the pecking order, it kind of solves the one conundrum they have, which is what happens if Pascal makes all NBA this year and is super max eligible? Well, the other connected conundrum to that is-
Trading Anunobi risks leaving this huge age gap between tentpole number one of Siakam and tentpole number two of Barnes. And that can be fine. Like you can build around that. And Pascal's not old by any means. He's still in his prime. It's just a little maybe off what you would want ideally, which is why I think if they do trade Anunobi or even if they don't,
I think Gary Trent Jr. is not the cinch to be traded that he's been maybe made out to be in some corners of the media. I understand he's going to be a free agent. Most likely he's going to command a lot of money. I don't think – I might actually – my gut might actually say they don't trade him. Yeah, I mean – And he's the better of those two players. He's 24 to the age point I'm saying before. Gary Trent seems old. He's only 24. So he's in that age gap between Siakam and Barnes. Yeah.
Right. I mean, I think the biggest question is like, what is the free agent market for Gary Trent Jr. going to be? And that kind of connects to one of the other teams we wanted to talk about. Go. Los Angeles Lakers. To me, it's the Gary Trent Jr. test for whether you should trade one of these first round picks. Just one?
Just like whether you should even have them in play because anybody that you're bringing in either to resign or his long-term salary has to be better than who I think I can get right now, well, presumably resigning Rui Aji Mora. So the equation is a little bit different than it was before the Aji Mora trade. Then I think there are legitimate players for a Van Vliet or Jeremy Grant, guys in that range.
Now, those guys probably jump into the, I would trade a first round pick for them category. But if it's Boyan Bogdanovich, I'm not convinced that's better for me long-term than having Gary Trent Jr.,
I don't think it makes enough of a difference to their chances this season that I would be willing to give up a first round pick for someone I don't think is going to make my 2023-24 team materially better than it could be by going into free agency. So the Lakers are 24-28 after beating the Knicks in overtime. LeBron's going to break the scoring record next week. They are two games out of the play-in tournament.
That's manageable. And, you know, they still are the proverbial like no one is psyched to see them in the first round of the playoffs team among many others, including the Warriors, who just I just can. Can the Warriors just play well? Why is it impossible for them to play well for more than 10 consecutive minutes? I don't get it. Do you get it? The numbers, I feel the numbers sit there and say like their old starting five that for some reason they've decided is not their starting five anymore is amazing.
Their minutes with Draymond on and Steph off are plus, which is all you want is plus. If we just have our head above water and we're not drowning without Steph, that's a plus. With DiVincenzo, Kaminga, and Poole, and no Steph, they're plus again. At least the last time I checked, like plus three, plus four. That's a home run. They seem to have like a workable nine-man rotation with Lamb as the ninth guy. And...
They just routinely give away 10 point leads or fall behind by 18 and can't make it all up. I know we're getting sidetracked here. I just I can't remember being this flummoxed flummoxed Kevin by an allegedly really good team 51 games into the season.
We can talk Warriors trade if you want. I feel like that's been done to death. We all know who would be the salary in whatever trade they have going out the door. That's James Wiseman as at least the main ballast. Do you consider them a contender still? Yes, but I feel the same way as you in terms of...
Everything seems like they've solved the biggest problems that they had early in the season, which the bench was struggling as badly as it was. They weren't defending even with Draymond as well as you would have expected. And it feels like that stuff is normalized and yet it hasn't translated into this run you've kept mentioning. It feels like should be coming. So at some point, I think that has to affect our assessment of the likelihood of a run. But I...
I think there's more reason to believe in the Warriors is a dangerous lower seed than there is to believe in the Lakers. And they're just because of where they are in the standings, they're better positioned to, in fact, be that lower seed as opposed to, you know, because of an old timed injury getting left out of the plane entirely. Well, I mean, you look at the West standings and you can understand why the words would just say we just want to get in.
We're not above them are Minnesota. They don't care. Dallas. They don't care. The Clippers. They probably care a little bit, but they're not like super frightened Sacramento. They don't care. Memphis. Like I said, they've lost six out of seven. They beat him in the playoffs last year. I don't really think they care. It's a really fun rivalry. I mean, I think they care. I think they respect Memphis, but I don't think they're scared of them. Denver is a little bit different stratosphere. Okay. Lakers. So you would, you would, where are you? So who passes the Gary Trent Jr. Test for you then?
All right, here was my list of players that I came up with for the Lakers going into that exercise. The Raptors' three best players, I think, fit that. Obviously, Kyrie is not getting traded, but he would. DeMar DeRozan, Zach Levine, Alex Caruso from Chicago, and then Jeremy Grant. You're hitting on a lot of the teams I want to hit on. I don't know what Chicago is going to do.
I don't think anybody knows what Chicago is going to do around the league. I don't think teams that have talked to Chicago have a good sense of what Chicago is going to do. I think having talked to a lot of those teams, I think the closest thing to a consensus read on the Bulls is they will either trade none of the three or one of the three. That they don't seem to have an appetite for the full scale, trade everybody. I'm excluding Caruso from the three. Vucevic, DeRozan, Levine would be the three.
But again, this could all be smokescreens. But these other teams we've talked to the Bulls, somebody used the phrase closed for business with me today. I don't think anyone's closed for business right now. We're a week away. So take that for what it's worth. Many others have given me the, well, they'll probably listen on one of them. So let's listen on one of them. My favorite fake trade is the one that Bobby Marks had in that same piece today and one that I've mentioned before. Russ.
And the two first round picks, let's just say unprotected. Let's get crazy. I was going to say unprotected and top minimal, whatever protection, if it's even possible on 2029. So Russ in the 2027 and 2029 first round picks for Levine. What do you think of that trade from either perspective? I have never asked you about this one before.
I mean, I think taking, giving up two first round picks for the privilege of a contract, you're not sure how well it's going to age would concern me as the Lakers. And yeah,
I think that the Lakers, and they have generally done this in the past, but maybe got away from it after they added AD. They should treat their cap space as more of a precious commodity than almost anyone else because of the fact that they've got the ability to attract free agents. And obviously we saw during the late Kobe era that they need that star there
you know, in their prime to kind of be the guy to attract them. So I don't think it's like full scale, tear everything down, have 150 million in cap space or whatever the number is, 200 something million, you know, by the time we get to that point. But I don't know if I want to take on that entire Zach Levine contract and again, give up so much for the privilege of it. So you're holding your nose at two-time all-star Zach Levine with LeBron averaging 30 points a game at age 38.
And my third option in the starting five right now is the guy we just traded for from the Wizards. Like the Washington Wizards of Washington didn't want him. You're turning your nose up at Zach Levine. I'm turning my nose up at two unprotected first round picks. Well, you're not getting them for one because to get off of Russ is one pick. And by the way, can we just stop the – maybe you disagree with me.
So the Russ for six man of the year train has just, to me, has just got to stop. Like, I just, I think he's played pretty well coming off the bench, but the lack of shooting is still so detrimental and the turnovers are so detrimental that, I mean, I think he's still the Vegas favorite to win six man of the year. There's just got to be a better candidate than Russ for six man of the year. You can't win six man of the year if your team would still trade you at like the first opportunity to get a really good play.
Yeah, I can't say I've looked at the six-man award race because it doesn't feel like anyone has emerged in the way that they usually do. No, he might win by default. Like Christian Wood got hurt. Brogdon's been good. Bobby Portis got hurt. Like I don't know who it is right now. Brogdon is definitely the kind of person I would vote for. Can I just retroactively vote for 2016 Andre Iguodala?
So I, but also I don't think that Chicago can come into this with the demand that like one of those picks for Westbrook because the Lakers aren't in the kind of urgency to move Westbrook that they were before this season. And you're only taking on half a season of his salary and it's matching salary. In this case, you're not, you know, you're sending out salary in addition to taking it back in. So I would reject that part of Chicago's hypothetical premise. All right.
All right. The other thing I think we should say about the Lakers is one of the reasons they've gotten in this situation is at every turn since adding Anthony Davis, they have prioritized shot creation in terms of the skills that they have wanted around Anthony Davis and LeBron James. So you think back to trading Danny Green for Dennis Schroeder, better shot creator and not as good at the other stuff. And I liked that trade for them. I can't sit here and say,
It was obvious to me that that trade would go. But actually, Dennis Schroeder has been good for them this year. I liked the idea of I need another ball handler next to LeBron. And now I didn't think that that trade would then kick off a series of transactions in which they trade every single player who could shoot and compliment LeBron in AD. I just thought it would be a standalone. That's all. Exactly. But you mark a soul for Montrezl Harrell prior to his in-shot creation. Wow. That is a deep cut.
Yeah, which was not technically a trade. They traded Gasol and signed Montrezl Harrell. Then the Westbrook trade is obviously the ultimate example of it where you've got these useful role players in Kuzma and KCP and trade them for Westbrook who is a better shot creator, doesn't fit with LeBron. Even Rui, his best NBA skill is his ability to make difficult shots, right? As opposed to being a guy who excels at making the open shots to LeBron James and Anthony Davis.
And one of the things that's happened through all of this, maybe to a lesser extent this year than the last couple of years, they still haven't been very good when LeBron and AD aren't on the court because it turns out you need the other stuff in addition to shot creation then too. I don't know what the Lakers are going to do. I really don't. I don't know that there's a one pick guy out there for them. I think my gut, I'm overusing my gut. I don't know why my gut is...
My gut is hungry, actually, right now. You had lunch yet? Oh, I'm Kevin. You're talking. I'm part of the 1130 a.m. lunch club. It'll be sometimes 1105, and my wife would be like, are you making lunch? Yeah, I'm hungry. What do you want me to do? Wait till noon? There's a law? I'm hungry. I think the Lakers, at the very least, if the Bulls called and said, we'll do that deal for the two picks, I
The Lakers are getting everyone, all the Ram by everybody into a conference room and having a really long debate about it. And I bet that debate ends with them doing it. Now, whether the Bulls would do it, I don't know. Can we talk about I'll give you a choice of wildcard teams that are on my list, the Portland Trailblazers or the New York Knicks? Which would you like to talk about?
Well, let's do Portland both because I'm well prepared for that and also because I think it intersects with the Chicago conversation. And with the Phoenix one. I have so many crazy Portland Trailblazers trades, all of which are probably total non-starters for the Portland Trailblazers, but I don't really care. I want to have fun. It's the trade deadline. I want to have fun. Why are the Portland Trailblazers on your list of trade deadline wildcards, Kevin Pelton? I mean, the case for them is a little similar to the Lakers in terms of...
Their star, Damian Lillard, is still performing at this elite level. I was there last week when he scored 60 points against the Jazz. He's been on an incredible heater during this homestand that they've had going. They still haven't played very well during it, which is the problem. So yeah, because of that, they need to find better pieces around Damian Lillard. And even though I think everyone thinks of them as a teardown team and they're
They do have probably a need to figure out the Josh Hart situation before the trade deadline. They're also, I think, a team that's going to be aggressive looking to add to their core rather than subtract from it. Okay. So given the constraints of reality in Portland's salary structure, Jeremy Grant's a free agent after this year, hasn't signed an extension. I think Jason Quick had a piece about that this week in The Athletic.
Might want to wait until the offseason to sign a bigger contract than can be offered now. Hart, let's just say he's a $12.96 million expiring contract. He's a very good role player. And Yusuf Nurkic, who has slumped in the last six weeks and at times kind of slumped out of the fourth quarter rotation in favor of Drew Eubanks, jumping Drew Eubanks, makes about $55 million over the next three seasons after this one, all guaranteed. Given those constraints...
how kevin pelton and the fact that i owe the chicago bulls a lottery protected pick through 2028 so that as of right now i cannot trade a first round pick cannot cannot trade a first round pick now i can go to the bulls and say what's it going to cost me to amend the terms on those picks and how dangerous is amending the protections on those picks going to be to me the portland trailblazers are currently in i think 11th place in the western conference i can't i can't just be too uh
too reckless with my own draft picks. How can I win now? So that's why I kind of like Chicago as a trade partner for Portland, because if anyone is going to be willing to work around that trade, that protected pick situation, it's going to be if you're dealing directly with the Bulls, because then they know they get the pick either way, basically. So I'm so excited for these fake trades that are going to be crazy and have no chance of reality, because I have a lot of them myself. So please, I'm so excited.
All right. Well, so you started, I think, with Zach Levine to Portland, which is logical for a few reasons. To me, DeRozan is an interesting fit there. I believe still shares an agent with Damian Lillard. So there's that bit of a connection. Spicy. He does the good ones.
Yeah. So, and then if you look at DeRozan and Caruso, they're almost an exact salary match for Anthony Simons and Josh Hart in a way that solves the Blazers problems because they don't have to worry about like, what's Josh Hart going to make in free agency next year? How do we figure that out?
And then for Chicago, it's not really an issue for them. They get dramatically younger by going from DeRozan and Caruso to Simons. You've got to believe in Simons' future that he can be, if not an all-star, in the all-star discussion type of player, I think, for that to make sense for them, unless there's a lot of draft picks going. So wait, so outline the deal for me so I get it completely right. DeRozan and Caruso for Hart and Simons. No draft equity? No.
Some pick TBD. That's the player part of it. So here's the issue we're going to run into over and over again. I don't think the Blazers want to trade Anthony Simons. I think their view of the situation is we upended our franchise last season in the CJ McCollum trade in part because of the faith we have in homegrown first round pick Anthony Simons. I think there's sort of an attachment to that idea. And he's the bridge to
The post-Name era. He's the only real bridge. I mean, Shaden Sharp is far, far away. He's playing now. That's good. But I think he's part of this conversation because one of the things that we've seen with Shaden Sharp this year is...
he in he's probably a shooting guard, not a small forward given his rebound rate. And so like long-term the is, you know, is Shaden sharp Simons and Lillard a fit like that? Is that going to create kind of the same redundancy issues? We've been talking about for Portland for a long period of time. So if you really believe in sharp is the long-term guy, then Simons may be the one who ends up going because of that.
Now, one of the advantages of acquiring DeRozan over Levine, which is the fake trade I pitched earlier this week, is DeRozan makes $10 million less than Levine. And so you're not handcuffing yourself to, let's say, Jeremy Grant. What's a good estimate for Jeremy Grant? Would you say 28 or 30 or something? So you're not committing $110 million to three players. You're committing a little bit less than that.
which is also part of the value of Anthony Simon's contract is that that contract is going to age pretty well in the mid twenties instead of a gigantic $40 million contract. I like that one. Can I read you my Portland, Chicago one? Go for it. Anthony Simons, Yusuf Nurkic and Josh Hart earning a combined $50.9 million contract.
for DeMar DeRozan and Nikola Vucevic earning $49.3 million. So Portland shaves a little bit of money, stays under the tax. Chicago adds a little bit of money, but also stays just under the tax. I get my replacement center for Nurkic, who I now have to pay, but I don't think I'm going to have to pay a crazy amount of money for. I don't think the market's going to be jumping for big Nick Vucevic. I get DeRozan and I give up the best young player in the trade, the only good young player in the trade really, in Anthony Simons.
And if I'm Chicago, do I need – I probably need something, right? Just the optics of giving up DeMar and Vucevic even though I'm getting the – if the closest thing there is to kind of a young gem in this trade. How much do I need though? Can we play around with that pick? Can we unprotect part of it and I get another pick? Is that too much for Portland to give up considering Portland? If I'm Portland, I'm saying, wait a second. I'm giving up a 23-year-old.
On the fringes of the fringes, the very fringes of the all-star conversation. I don't know who adds what in that trade. I mean, this is where most trades fall apart, right? Is that both teams feel like, you know, it's a, it's a slightly better value for us and that sort of thing. I mean, the, you know, the interesting thing about it from Portland's standpoint is like the Blazers problem remains defense. You trade for DeMar DeRosa and Nikola Vujovic. I'm not sure you're fixing that.
That's why I liked having Caruso in that deal. He shares some overlap with Gary Payton II, but he also makes me a little bigger. But if you put them on the floor at the same time, it would be like hellacious. You're right. And my only defense is the same thing I had for Levine, who's not a defender either, is at least they're tall. At least they're 6'6". DeRozan is 6'6", 6'7". At least they're tall enough that I can switch them around and put them in different places. Simons is just...
This is the issue with the Blazers. If your stated goal is maximizing Damian Lillard's prime, he's 32 years old. You're not doing it right now, right? We can agree on that. This team is not doing it. This team's whatever, two games, a game under 500. They're fine. They're not doing anything serious. Well, how can I do something serious? How can I turn this into a serious contender? And, and,
The, I'm not going to say the only way, the, the way that gives me the most options is putting sniffing around what Simons could get me. Maybe like what I call Toronto and say, Hey, look, the Blazers, we wanted in an OB. They offered the seventh pick in the draft, which became sharp friend. No B I'm pretty sure Toronto said no, obviously. Um, and Chayden sharps on the Blazers. What about Simons? I don't think Simons is, is, I don't know how much Toronto loves Simons, but, um,
You got to play around with it. Can I give you another one intersecting two of our intriguing teams? I want to throw out a note here quickly because I looked this up. The shortest teams weighted by minutes played this season. Number one is a team that we don't have on our list, but everyone assumes is going to make a trade for some size at the four spot, that being Miami.
Number two is the Lakers because of the fact that they've been playing so many of these three guard lineups. Then you've got Golden State and Philly, who I think are kind of fake short teams because Draymond Green and P.J. Tucker play much bigger than their listed height. And then, intriguingly, two of the other teams on this list, Portland and Phoenix. Well, so here's another trade for you. This is a toughie. Nurkic and Simons.
$37.946 million. I know that one by heart right now. To Phoenix for Aiton and Cam Johnson, making $36.913 million. So again, I'm adding a little money to Phoenix's tax bill. The problem is I don't have a backup point guard now if I'm the Blazers, and I need to find a backup point guard who's not Keon Johnson. Now, there are ways to do that. For instance, would you call the Nuggets and offer Nasir Little for Bones Highland?
Well, that's an interesting one from the Nuggets standpoint. I think the Nuggets would do that. I think the Nuggets would do that. Yeah, I hadn't considered him for the Nuggets. I mean, again, you're making yourself very offensive on the perimeter and very still undersized in the backcourt despite making this trade. I know. The bottom line is I just don't think they want to trade Simons. I think all these trades are fantasy land because I just don't think they want to move him. And I'd be curious to hear what you think about
I wonder if Portland is like, hey, look, yeah, we're 25 and 26. How old is Jeremy Grant? 27, 28 years old? He's not old. He could still get better. Is he older than that? I think he's older than that. I'll look it up while I talk. Yeah. Simons is 23. Maybe there's a leap in there. Some of our other core guys are young. Why can't we just sort of keep this together and try to churn around the fringes a little bit? It's not like anyone in the West is...
is sprinting away from us now in a year we could be talking about memphis and new orleans sprinting away from them along with some of the other teams at the top in new orleans injuries have just killed their season memphis is young and rising and all that i you know they could look they could i think honestly say to themselves look we'll just keep dame simon's grant you know we don't have much flexibility financially but we have a little bit more than if we turn simon's into some big 40 million dollar contract and we'll tinker and tinker and maybe sharp pops
They love Sharp. Maybe Sharp pops in two years. Maybe we luck into a good trade opportunity somewhere down the line. And all of a sudden, we're just like we were previously in the Dame-CJ era. All of a sudden, we're like a 50-win team again. I don't think that's totally unreasonable for them to just sort of stay the course and have that optimistic outlook on life. And I think they have to because I just don't think they're going to trade Simons. And I don't see any other –
I don't see any other way for them to sort of do this sort of reorienting our franchise deal that we talked about with Phoenix. Agreed. Yeah, a grand is $29. $29. I was not that far off. Yeah. Or it will be $29 in March, I should say. He's not yet $29. Let me not age him. Yeah, you can't do that. Believe me. If you age me by a month, I'm going to be angry. Yeah.
If it weren't for the idea that the Blazers are out there being aggressive as buyers, I wouldn't think of the Simons trade possibility. I just think that's the only realistic scenario for them to add to the roster right now is with Simons, unless for some reason they're going to give up Sharp, which again, I don't think they're going to do. Can I give you another fake one that is just going to break my brain? It's already broken my brain. We'd have to get more stuff in this one. Nurkic and Simons, my pet package again.
it's just not going to work. I really want to build this trade. Nurkic and Simons to Minnesota for Rudy Gobert. That's intriguing. That's almost an exact salary match. It's almost an exact salary match. It's within, I think it's within a million. It's within $300,000. I mean, the one thing, the Blazers have tried for so long to pair Dame with a variety of these standout defensive forwards over the years. They have never gotten the...
old defensive caliber front court player to pair with him. And I'd be intrigued to see how that looks. And I can hear the blazer fan saying, wait a second, haven't we just spent the whole last six months trashing the Rudy Gobert trade, how much Minnesota overvalued him, blah, blah, blah. And we're trading this 23 year old, you know, athletic shooter, uh,
That's not fair. And I get it. Maybe Minnesota has to include something more. I think what those fans need to come to grips with is like Nurkic on that contract with three years left after this one is not a trade asset. It's not someone that a lot of teams are going to be super psyched to have. I just thought that was interesting. Can we talk about the Knicks for a second? Why is nobody talk? The only Knicks talk there is, is Cam Reddish, which with respect to Cam Reddish, I just don't really care that much where he ends up.
And this is a team that just got to the goal line and then like threw its phone in the toilet on the Donovan Mitchell trade talks with everything but Grimes and, you know, a varying amount of picks depending on who else was in the deal, two, sometimes three. I had someone say to me yesterday who's not with any of these teams, not with the Bulls, not with the Knicks, not with the Lakers, just a third, a fourth, you know, whatever source, just spitballing said, if I'm the Bulls,
I'm going to get the Lakers and the Knicks to bid against each other for Zach Levine because that's just what I would do. And I thought the Knicks have been linked to a lot of, you know, Ananobi's name has been out there. Ian Begley, I think was the first person to put his name out there. Like, I just don't like, why are we not talking about the Knicks more?
Because the Knicks have a good problem, which is that it's very difficult to upgrade their rotation right now. They've got a lot of solidly average or better players. Even though they have Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle are in all-star conversation, the fact that they don't have that top
guy in the league, I think is their biggest issue right now. And is Zach Levine a top 20 guy in the league right now? I don't think he probably qualifies since he's not in the all-star conversation. He's not, to be clear, it's not, he's not like super distant from that. We're not trashing Zach Levine. Top 20 is just, if you actually start writing down the names, like it's hard to get there.
So I don't, I mean, I think again, it makes, there's no one out there for them to go all in on. OG, I think makes more sense in terms of bringing complimentary skills to what they have in the starting lineup than Zach Levine. Like again, offensive creation is not the next problem with Brunson and Randall.
I also don't think it's unreasonable for the Knicks to just keep their ammo dry for the summer because I think one of the themes, and Wendy was talking about this on his pod the other day, I think the playoffs are going to be really, really telling in terms of who becomes available this summer. There are lots of teams, and I've talked about it before, with so much at stake and so much potential uncertainty if things go wrong for them in the playoffs that –
There are going to be interesting names that are going to be better than Zach Levine that maybe, maybe not definitely, but maybe shake loose. And I think the Knicks will look at some of those names. Can we build? Purtle's an interesting name for both the Blazers and the Suns. Jakob Purtle in San Antonio. The Spurs have so much cap room that the Suns could just swap Aiton for Purtle straight up. Now, I assume the Suns would want more than that.
Is that interesting to you at all? I got to have a specific. It can't just be to shed the money. I got to have a specific plan for what I'm doing for that. As the Suns? With that. Yeah. Well, I'm going to re-sign Pirtle and say he's going to be a better fit than Aiton. He's a slightly better defensive player for sure. He's not going to want the ball and demand the ball and all that stuff. Can you shoot free throws? No, but I don't know. Maybe I get something. Maybe I got a sweetener who helps me.
Now a little bit as you know, you know, the trade I want the Suns to make. I've been seeing it literally since Jay Crowder disappeared. I want the Suns to trade Jay Crowder, pick a salary, Sarich, Shamit, whoever, pick the amount of salaries where you're not going to go too far more into the tax and a first round pick and a swap. Now back in the summer, it was two first round picks and two swaps or something to Atlanta for John Collins. That's the trade I want the Suns to make. I like that trade for both teams. I,
I don't know if this new regime of Landry Fields in Atlanta likes that trade as much as the old regime might have. I like that trade. I think John Collins is good. I went on my John Collins rant last time. That's the one I want Phoenix to make. Yeah, I mean, if you match those two up, suddenly the Aiden Birtle part of it makes a lot more sense because to me, you can't take back Collins' salary as Phoenix with Aiden on the roster. And then also a lot of the value of having Collins. Why not? Why not?
I mean, maybe Matt Ishby is willing to green light that kind of tax bill. Well, CP's deal is half guaranteed for next year and then comes off totally the year after that. Okay, but who's playing point guard for me then? Because it turns out it's not the guys who have been playing point guard when Chris Paul was out of the lineup. Yeah, it's fair. It's a fair question. It becomes hard. I like the idea of having them both if it's financially viable, Aiton and Collins, because Collins can be my backup five.
Right. But I also, I think part of the value of Collins is in certain situations, he should be your finishing five. And that's probably not going to happen if you have him and Aiden together. Fair. A couple of quick teams before I let you go. Philadelphia. Talk about teams facing potential uncertainty if they underperform in the playoffs. They have Tyrese Maxey, who if they actually made him available and attached him to Tobias Harris would be the brightest light maybe on the trade market. And there's a school of thought that
His value is higher now than it ever will be. I don't necessarily agree with that school of thought. I don't think the Sixers are trading Tyrese Maxey. I don't even think they're really considering any of these fake Tyrese Maxey plus Tobias Harris deals. I don't think they've even really been discussed. Anything you like there?
I mean, even if it's short of that, I think that they can be aggressive putting together salaries from their bench to upgrade one of those spots. I think Matisse Thibel is someone who could have more value to another team than he does to the Sixers. I've thrown out the Kings as someone I think make a lot of sense for him. I saw that was reported earlier this week. They are one guy away, aren't they? The Kings bench is like if Malik Monk doesn't have a crazy game, I feel like they're one guy short.
And they've been trying to play Casey Apollo at times in that, you know, sort of three, four stopper role. And he's, he's a little stretched in that one. I think, I think there are two guys away cause I, they could probably also use a backup center upgrade, but those guys may be available. They can, they may be able to find them with seconds and,
And then from Philly's standpoint, you start to put a couple of Corkmaz, probably Daniel House Jr. in that trade. And all of a sudden, you could be a player potentially for someone like Jay Crowder if he's going for seconds, especially if he's going to one of my rivals. They were on my Jay Crowder list at the start of the season. I think my deal was Niang plus Corkmaz. Now Niang has played himself into far more of an essential role now than he was then.
And I've always been a fan of his. I just thought the Crowder price would probably end up being a little higher than Philly could afford. They're also, I think Philly is like $1.1 million over the tax. And so the most likely outcome for any team that's that little over the taxes for them to try to get under it somehow. Would Phoenix ever do Tim Hardaway Jr., Dorian Finney-Smith in a first round pick for DeAndre Ayton?
Who says no to that deal? I'm just coming out of the blue. I'm coming out. I'm looking at my notes. Like what, what have I not mentioned yet? It feels like it leaves Dallas to center heavy unless they could find a Christian wood trade simultaneously. So I don't feel like I would do that as the Mavs, but it's, it's interesting. That's when both teams, both teams are having a media about that one. I agree. The other team that we didn't mention is the bucks who have been most closely linked to Crowder. The athletic was first to report that they had permission to meet with Jay Crowder. That is true.
I think they're looking around a little even harder than people think for someone in that big wing three, four mold before I let you go. Cause I know you got a lunch meeting, any teams we didn't hit that you were dying to hit. That was everyone that was on my old, we didn't talk about new Orleans at all. I guess that was the other team we didn't talk about. I,
I did want to say quickly on Milwaukee, though. I feel like Grayson Allen is being treated as kind of like bad salary in all of these conversations. And I get why he doesn't make sense in Phoenix because they have Landry Schammett already, who is a very similar player, although I think signed to a worse contract and probably not as good a player. But if Grayson Allen ends up in Orlando or Detroit or on some rebuilding team that desperately needs shooting, Grayson Allen is a useful player.
I agree. I've done the whole, like, I think people just watch the Boston series and
And watch Tatum and Brown eat him for lunch, possession after possession. And be like, well, Grayson Allen's not good. I think Grayson Allen's pretty good. On the other hand, I think the Bucs have to plan for that series. And if they don't think he can play in that series, then maybe you sell a little low on him in just sort of vacuum value for a player who fits that series a little better. Talk to me about New Orleans, who obviously has a gazillion first-round picks and has slid all the way to 10th in the West.
So I think one of the larger themes of this conversation, by the way, is I think there's a lot of teams that sort of have to figure out, can we be good enough this year to convince ownership to pay the luxury tax next year? When Zion's deal kicks in. Exactly. Portland is a team that has not been good enough to do that. So that's why Josh Hart probably should be traded before the deadline. New Orleans, I think, is on the borderline right now. Phoenix also, if we were talking about the Collins and Aiden possibility, would fall into that camp.
I think the idea of New Orleans paying the tax next year, always difficult in that market, but was more palatable when they were the third best team in the West than it is right now when they've slumped a little bit and are in the play-in, I believe, as we speak. Clinging to 10th at 500. They're down to exactly 500. So the challenge is you've got all these big salaries for next year with that Zion extension kicking in.
You kind of have to trade one of those big salaries if you're going to add someone else with a big salary. So OG and Inobi gets mentioned to New Orleans a lot. I don't think they can make it work financially, even though clearly they have the picks to be able to do it. So in other words, your big salaries are Ingram, McCollum, Zion, and-
JV is up after this season, right? Yeah. So like a center upgrade or a point guard upgrade, I think are more realistic if you're sending one of those two guys out. Like I loved the idea of...
I tried to do the Miles Turner, make the renegotiate and extend and trade all happened in New Orleans. Pretty clearly, it sounds like that's off the table, but it would have been perfect for them because his salary the next two years is not that much higher than Jonas Valanciunas is scheduled to make next season. And they could have taken in the increased salary this year because they've got a little more wiggle room with some of the contracts like Jackson Hayes.
Well, we got a week to figure this out. One team we didn't mention we probably should is the Nets, but that's for another day. Kevin Pelton, live from Seattle, where athletes are just leaving willy-nilly. Teams are leaving. Athletes are leaving. Always appreciate your time. You're going to be, you are a must read all the time, particularly this time of year and in July. So there's going to be a lot of Kevin Pelton content in the next week. I'm sure I will be leaning on you in that week. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me.