Trade Landscape with Bobby Marks
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And now, The Low Post. Welcome to The Low Post podcast on Friday, December 16th. December 16th. That means December 15th was yesterday, which means almost 90% of the league is now trade eligible, which means it's trade season and Bobby Marks.

is on board today to help guide us through the larger league landscape as we enter everybody's favorite part of the NBA season, trade season. Because who cares about basketball? It's all about trades. It's a fantasy league now. Bobby Marks, how are you? Hello, Zach. How are you? Good. I'm good.

Doing well. The Brooklyn slash New Jersey Nets 2010 trade of December 15, 2010 is still the last time a December 15 trade. That was the infamous Terrence Williams trade. So we are...

12 years since there's been a deal on December 15th. So one of my better trades, two first round picks for Terrence Williams. That's a good trade. Rockets traded for him, right? Yeah. I always tease Darryl. He's not how he doesn't, he doesn't appreciate when I tease him about that. So I'm sure he could argue his way out of that being a bad trade. Somehow he would have some, he's got some steady, some argument in his brain. We have to start with the news though, which couldn't impact trade season that Stephen Curry, uh,

Of the 14 and 15 Golden State Warriors is out for quote, according to Woj, a few weeks with a shoulder injury. Um,

Again, the Warriors are 14 and 15. They would be in the play-in tournament barely by the skin of their teeth after winning the title last year. And for the millionth consecutive year, their offense stinks without Steph Curry. This was a problem even when they had Kevin Durant, like their offense would fall off a cliff without Steph Curry. With Steph on the floor, they're scoring 119 points per 100 possessions. That's better than the Celtics offense and allowing 112 plus seven per 100 possessions. That's very good.

Without Steph, their offense falls to 99.9. I could round up and say 100 to be polite, but 99.9 sounds like a more severe problem. So we're going 99.9. And 111 allowed, so minus 11. So plus 7 with Steph on the floor, minus 11 with Steph off the floor. That's no bueno. Their upcoming schedule is tough. They have four straight road games now against Eastern Conference playoff teams or playoff hopefuls. That's what the Knicks are now, playoff hopeful. Steph's MSG game.

Off the schedule for Steph. That stinks. That's always a highlight. Then they have, depending on how long he's out, they have another road trip in mid-January. And, of course, a home game much anticipated against the Grizzlies. The freaking Grizzlies, by the way. Holy smokes. Just absolutely eviscerated the Bucs last night on national TV. That game's on Christmas. You know, a few weeks. If a few weeks means three weeks, Bobby, that's 10 games.

We all tend to get doom and gloom about a star player being injured and kind of forget in the moment how adaptable NBA teams are. And despite the fact that I just read all these horrible numbers about how bad the Warriors are without Curry,

It's one thing to try to survive 15 minutes with Curry on the mention of game and another to know going into the game, Steph Curry won't be playing in it, reconstructing your entire rotation. Jordan pool always plays better as a starter than he does off the bench. Wiggins will come back. That's been a sneaky, big loss for them. You should be back pretty soon. I think, you know, if this is 10, 12 games,

I think it's one of those things where we all fret now and then it's like, oh, they actually went six and six and they're fine. If this is 20 games, I think it becomes a little bit worrisome for the Warriors, who, of course, have been trying to cobble together a bench rotation even with Steph. And they kind of found something with this Steven Chenzo, Kaminga, Lamb trio off the bench, surrounded by various starters, including Draymond.

What's your concern level? And it's early, but does this change your understanding of how the Warriors will approach the next two months trade-wise? I mean, they have all these young guys. They owe a pick to the Grizzlies, but they've got

Other picks to deal with. What say you? Yeah, I mean, it's got a little bit of, I guess, the 2020-21 deja vu feeling for me. That was the year they lost to Memphis in the plane, I believe. The year before is when they made the Wiggins trade at the deadline and then COVID hit and they were not in the bubble here. But I just look at the Western Conference standings. I mean, there's just so much. There's so much parity here, right? Nobody's running around and running away with it.

We talked about New Orleans, how well then they go into Utah, lose two games, right? You know, Denver is hanging around Utah. Who knows what happens with them come the trade deadline. They're 17 and 14 as a Friday here. The Lakers are in the back. Like, so I think as long as they stay at that, if they play, you know, if it's 12 games, if they're 500, I think they'll, it will give them a chance to jump back into the top six here because they're

You don't know what you're going to get from the Clippers, right? Like I think you get like set a great example. Like they're the ultimate science experiment, right? Like one injury, their injury report last night for that was a national TV game, right? Clippers on NBA TV. Yeah. And it's like, what are we doing here? Like, why are all these dudes out? I like Kawhi. Fine. He's recovering from injury. Half your bench is also out. Like what, what,

Why are, why do they, why do they think that the, I don't, I can't. Okay. Well, and their schedule is so top heavy too. Like I think they're like, like they have 60 games before like the all-star break, I want to say. And then it kind of, um, it lessens out there. So I do think that, um, as long as they don't go in a two for two and 10 and, or really go on the skids that the schedule will kind of be, we'll allow them to kind of, or the standings will allow them to hang in the thing would, you know, you go through, um,

Bob Myers track record too, is like outside of the Wiggins Russell trade, like they don't make in season trades. Right. Like, and again,

Now for them, we know what their assets are, right? Poole basically can't be traded because of the poison pill. Wiggins can't be traded. Unlikely anything with Thompson and Green. Yeah, so you're basically, do you want to sell low on Wiseman, right? Do you want to sell low on Wiseman to see if he can bring back one or two players? That's kind of the big thing for me. I don't mean Kaminga.

I would, you know, if I ask new Wiseman coming, I'm probably holding on to coming right now. Oh, I'm feeling, I'm feeling so good right now about my Jonathan coming to stock. I like a fool on this podcast, like a year ago, fell in love with Jonathan coming to said that if I were Bob Myers and the lake of whoever else is making decisions there, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep or drafting coming over Franz Wagner.

And boy, that was dumb. Like Franz Wagner is amazing. But I just but Kaminga is starting to figure some things out. He's had a great last couple of weeks and his athleticism is just so tantalizing. That does not make me right. Like Franz Wagner, if the Warriors had Franz Wagner right now, that would be very good for them. But I do like Jonathan Kaminga. And I think to your point, his recent stretch has played him into.

We're only including him as part of a trade for a star status. And I don't think that trade exists for them right now. No, I don't. I don't think I don't know if they exist for anybody right now as far as that all star. I mean, that may change come February, but it's basically if they're going to want to do something, it's going to be centered around Wiseman. I mean, that's that's the reality of it. And they've got, you know, they owe Memphis a pick, obviously.

In 24, they've got a bunch they can still move if they want. But, you know, as I said, you're going to basically cut ties. And but the value is, I mean, I've heard you guys talk about names, guys like Kelly Olenek, right? Like those are your kind of names, you know, those guys in that 10 to 12 to 10 to $12 million range that can come in help right now, but likely will probably be off your roster in two years.

I thought you were going to say Kelly Oubre Jr. I could say him too. Well, they've already lived the Kelly Oubre Jr. experience and didn't like it. You know, everyone and lots of people, including me, have mentioned Pirtle. A Wiseman Pirtle swap is something that makes sense for both teams. And the more I think about it and the more I watch them play,

Like, okay, so Looney's going to give you 20 minutes a game in the playoffs. Looney never misses games anymore. He's like the new NBA iron. He's like Cal Ripken. I have no idea how that happened. That's 20 minutes. Michael Green, if he's on the team and making shots and he started to recently, he's going to give you eight to 10, maybe at center. That's 28. Then Draymond is going to play some center because that's always been the core identity of your team.

I'm not sure trading Wiseman for a center who can't shoot. Oh, Linick is a different story because the shooting gives you a little more flexibility. I'm not sure that really makes sense. And then you start looking around like who all the sellers are and who their teams are, who they're, who they're available vets are. And it's like, I don't really know. I mean, PJ Washington would be kind of interesting for the words I've mentioned him. Like is Alec Burks moving the needle? I love Alec Burks, but they have so many guards on this team.

you know, people love to link Caruso to them if the bulls ever blow it up. And I'm hoping the bulls are on your five most interesting teams list. They are. Um,

And he just does seem like a warrior that again, they just have so many guards. And also, when are we going to talk about the fact that Caruso as much as everybody loves and adores him, he never shoots. No, his usage rate is 10%. He's shooting like three two point shots per 36 minutes. And I understand the context and who he's playing with and all that. He never gets to the line. Like when did Alex Caruso become guard PJ Tucker? And why are we all just okay with that? Yeah, there's a lot of one for three nights. It's

In like 33 minutes. Yeah. Like a one for three, four rebounds, a couple assists, a couple, you know, other good things. But yeah, that if you're relying on his as, as your, as your score. Yeah. I don't know about that. The one thing I would say though, I know they lost the other night in Indiana. That was the game that Curry got hurt and green got thrown out of, but I was encouraged.

Cause they, they, they played better. And that I think it was fourth quarter where they kind of made that run. I think they made a cut at the three or four, um, with the younger, you know, the Moody's the coming goes, those, that type of group. Uh, I don't think clay played that game. He did not. Uh,

So that group without Curry and Green, I thought played better. I know it was a loss and they were down by a ton. But if you're going to, if that's what your effort's going to be there, then yeah, they'll be in your fair share. You know, you just got to beat the teams you're supposed to be in. After this road trip they're on, they do go home for, you know, an extended, an extended period there. I can't remember being this confused about,

by a team with this level of historical pedigree. The Warriors are one game under 500. We're 29 games into the season. Their starting five is still one of the best lineups in all of basketball. Their bench, once they sort of rejiggered their rotation, had this stretch of competency, mostly because of defense and probably some lucky opponent shooting.

And yet there's still one game under 500 and they have these losses to like bad teams. And just like, I just, I don't really understand why,

This is now beyond to me like, oh, well, we're a flip the switch championship hangover team. Something is just weird about their team. I still ultimately think they'll figure it out. And, you know, someone, an executive on another team told me yesterday, like they could be the eighth seed in the West and we'll all consider them the favorites. This is a Western Conference executive. And maybe that's true, but.

And again, I, none of the trades that I, I just went through are like seismic trades, but it's just strange. It's just a strange brew right there. Right. Well, I think the, I think the Boston game last Saturday, right? Like you're going to hang your hat on that, right? You're going to probably hang your hat on that Boston game a little bit. And they are, and they are as a great win.

Then they followed it up with losses to bad teams and they're under 500. It's like, when can we, it's just strange. And then in the Milwaukee loss too, besides a couple, I mean, basically hit, I think they hit three threes in a row. I mean, it was a non-competitive loss. They were never in the game. Yeah. They hit three threes to cut it to nine. I think, right. Like that's what it was. And in, in Indiana, I mean, even with Curry getting hurt, I mean, they were getting beat pretty good. They cut it to three in the third quarter, but I mean, they were down a lot of points in that game.

Weird, weird stuff. The only thing I will say is I've said from the beginning of the season, from the punch on, from the punch on, stop making up Draymond Green trades. They are not trading Draymond Green unless, and this was my caveat the whole time, unless the season goes so far off the rails that they're essentially a rebuilding tanking team.

This does not open up that possibility to me. I think they will just sort of scrap and claw about around 500. But if they go 0-12 or something, then you start to look at more options. If they go 0-12 and there's more instances like him getting thrown out the other night against Indiana, if there's like three more ejections in there and stuff, then you're thinking like, well, this thing has really kind of gone off the rails. Yeah, as much parity as there is.

You don't want to be in the play-in tournament. You just don't. And you mentioned that they lost two games in a row in the play-in tournament two seasons ago, including to the Grizzlies, who, you know, that was their springboard. And let's use that as a springboard into the rest of the trade teams because nothing has really changed for the Warriors. They're kind of chill and calm, and they'll figure it out, blah, blah, blah. The overarching environment as we enter the

actual trade season is number one parody Howard Beck my friend had a had a great piece at SI about just how many teams are scrunched and unprecedented scrunching in the middle of the standings and between Memphis two seasons ago and New Orleans last year a lot of teams have kind of bought into this idea of

If we get into the play-in and we get into the playoffs, that experience matters for our young players. Look at how Memphis has used it as a springboard. Look at how the Pelicans have used it as a springboard. That series against Phoenix where the crowd's going crazy, the environment is a hothouse, young guys are feeling that for the first time. That seems to have mattered to those teams. And so...

I think a lot of teams are going to consider themselves buyers more than usual. The play-in has worked in that sense that, of course, limits the number of sellers. So that's where we are. I asked you, Bobby, pick your five most interesting trade season teams. I picked some of mine, too. I'm sure we have some overlap, but I will yield the floor to you. Give me a team you want to talk about. Yeah, I kind of wanted to go away from the obvious teams here. So I'm going to start with the Wizards.

Not on my list, really. It's funny. I was texting with they were playing the other night with Tim Bontemps. And I said to him, Tim, we're going to be 20 years from now. We're going to be retired from this business. And I feel like in December, Washington is still going to be 11 and 16. Like every time I look up at the standings, they're 11, 15, they're 11 and 16. They get off to a good start here. And and I know I know Beal's been hurt with that hamstring here, but I'm just looking at.

Kuzma, player option. Porzingis, player option. None of their young, I guess, blue chip recent draft picks, whether it be Denny. I mean, Johnny Davis, who they drafted this past year, he's averaging like six minutes a game. So, Bobby, I don't watch college basketball.

I just don't have time. Yeah. Can you confirm that Johnny Davis is a real person? He's not the former coach. Did they just get on the clock and not know who to pick and just make up, is he a movie character? And they just thought it would be funny to draft a fictional person? He could walk in front of my house right now and be like, hey, Zach, I'm Johnny Davis from the Wizards. I just happen to be in your neighborhood. I would have no idea who it was. They'd be like, were you drafted this year? Yeah.

Meanwhile, Memphis, who I think we're going to talk about later, they're just like, who of our young guys wants to play? Well, you want to play? Sure. Roddy, you want to play? Sure. We play everybody all the time. And like Johnny Davis can't get on the floor for a team that stinks. And I had Mike Prada, who's a Wizards fan from the athletic on my podcast when they were 10 and seven. And we opened the podcast by just being like, yeah, this is completely fool's gold. We don't believe any of this. Now, we did believe maybe they were like a 36 win team.

they're a disaster. They can't win any games right now. No. And then they have to your point, all their young players. I mean, I've talked about it to death. None of these guys have popped at all. Obdi has had a nice month. I think Obdi is going to be a good player on a good team someday, like a nice fifth starter type. They just have, there's, there's just nothing. If I'm a wizards fan, I might just check out of the NBA for the next, except for the lottery.

Well, one of their best, they're one of their best bench players is Jordan Goodwin. He's on a two way. I mean, he's on a two way. I mean, so, but why are they interesting to you? Cause do you think that these veterans Kuzma Porzingis, like, why don't we look around? Is that what you're asking? Basically that. And I'm asking like, so what is, you just signed Bradley Beal to a five year, $250 million contract, right? Now you're going to be sellers, right? So if you're going to be sellers, right.

you might as well just be like, you might as well just go all in and be sellers here. And I know Beal has a no trade clause and we texted about it before. Like you're going to have to get to a point unless all of a sudden you just draft great all of a sudden because you haven't. This team is going to be 11 and 16 for the next three or four years. They're going to be a 35 to 36 win team. And my concern with Beal is like that contract is going to be depreciating.

he had a stretch where he played, I think 82 games, I think 2016, 17 in that area. And now like you look at like 50 games, 60 games, he's, you know, he playing, you know, he's missing 20 games here, 25 games there. Like it, it,

And it's going up. I mean, year three is $50 million. He's going to be burning. So if I'm, if I'm the wizards and I, and I'm going to be looking to move off guys or unless you just think you just, you're holding on for dear hope. Like I'm looking at everything here. Like I'm looking at from Beal on down and yes, Beal would have to work with you on a deal. But I just, I just, I'm just so sick and tired of like,

This team is so blah. I mean, and that's being kind. They're the worst night to night watch in the NBA. I just, when the wizards come up on my wheel of teams to watch, I'm like, Oh God, are they playing somebody good at least? Or are they playing? So I get most teams are excited. They had Brooklyn when Brooklyn, when things were really bad in Brooklyn and jock had taken over, uh,

They had a full, healthy lineup. The Wizards did. And Brooklyn went in there on a Friday night and basically beat him by 50. Hashtag KD to DC. Yep.

So, like, I just, I just, like, I like Monty Morris, you know, you know, you know, set up guy. Right. But he's a he's a backup point guard in this. We're going to we're going to get to the point guard situation later. Don't worry. Don't worry. I have I have some fake trades that are that I that I just completely made up for fun. Look on the bright side. I think here's the most important thing that's happened for the Wizards this year that fans should be encouraged about.

the pink uniforms look amazing and they should be their core uniforms going forward. That's fantastic. Great work by the wizards. Everything else is a disaster. And on Beal, I, well, last month I surveyed, you know, 20 front office people. And I just asked them like,

How do you even value this contract? And the Dame one too, although Dame is obviously the Blazers are playing really well again and are not even looking there because these are the first two just gargantuan long-term sticker shock, like 60 million contracts.

And I asked it through the lens of the Lakers, who you mentioned we don't want to talk about obvious teams. I asked through the lens of like, is Russ in the two unprotected picks? Is that fair value for Bradley Beal? And if you ask 25 people around the league, you would get everything from... Forget whether Washington would do it, right? Washington probably feels pot committed to Beal. They love Beal. He's the franchise, et cetera. So they'll overvalue him. You'd get some people saying...

Oh, my God. No, Bradley Beal is a top 25 player in all NBA, multiple time, all NBA player. That's not even close to requisite value for Bradley Beal. And then you get another group of people who would be like, honestly, anything the Wizards can get to get off of that contract, they should probably do it. I don't think the league knows what to do with that deal. And I just but more broadly, I just don't know where they're going.

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They're 19 and nine first in the West. They have all their picks. Danny Green's expiring $10 million salary. Maybe Dylan Brooks is expiring $11 million salary, though. Dylan Brooks is like for all the hate Dylan Brooks gets. He just humiliated Chris Middleton on national TV last night. Chris Middleton a look last night. I wanted to go in the corner and like crawl up in a. That's what Chris Middleton did. I've never seen Chris Middleton wilt like that. This is a guy who's made.

crunch time shots in the finals in the conference finals like monster game winning game tying shots in those environments um and dylan brooks has actually been recording assists at for dylan brooks is a level like three or four assists against like dylan brooks all right passing passing you can do that it's allowed you don't have to take the foot on the line three every time my man um

And I went on, I had Chris Vernon on last week. Well, first of all, did Memphis make your five most interesting teams? They didn't. Okay. But we're going to talk about them anyway. Sorry. Definitely. I had Verno on last week and I said, they can win the West right now. The time is now for them. I don't care if John Moran is 23 or whatever he is 24, 24,

And their team is young. The way Bain has improved, the way Jackson has come into the season, like he was shot out of a cannon, blocking everything in sight, making threes, making twos at a high rate. The time is now for Memphis. And I said to him,

If I were them, I know we've always been obsessed with, well, who could they get for four picks and three swaps? What about Durant? They asked about Durant over the summer. Who's the whale? It's like whales are fine. Like the whale hunting thing is fine. Why wouldn't they take one pick in Danny Green and see if they could upgrade what I've called the Roddy Aldama Laravia minutes? And...

I still think they should do that. And I think Kuzma is a great candidate for that. I can't get them Bogdanovich. I want them to get Detroit Bogdanovich so badly. And his $19 million salary makes it very, very hard for them to get. It has to be green plus like two young players or green plus Brooks. But then you look at their rotation, Bobby, and you're like, here's our starting five, which has played zero minutes together this whole season. Ja, Bain, Brooks, Jackson, Adams are top four off the bench.

are tyus jones the best backup point guard in the nba brandon clark one of the best backup big men in the nba john conchar and zaire williams who just got back that's nine we're already nine before we've gotten to david roddy who's playing pretty well he's a basketball you know what david roddy is he's a basketball player who happens to also be shooting 37 on corner threes santi aldama

That's 10 and 11, 37% on threes, 58% on twos, really good passer and cutter. Looks like a real player. Jake LaRavia out of the rotation, but you know, they let him get his feet wet. That's 12. Danny green. If he ever comes back,

But maybe they don't. I could see them. They've been so conservative. I could see them saying, if we just get our top 10 healthy, we're good enough as it is. We're going to hold on to our stuff instead of making the incremental move. But boy, if I were them, I'd be tempted to make an incremental move that gets me a shooter.

a reliable veteran for those Aldama Roddy minutes, as well as those guys are playing. Cause I think Memphis is awesome. And the improvements that Bain and Jackson have made should make them more formidable in the playoffs. Cause the bugaboo with them was always, you know, what happens when the game slows down, they rely on turnovers and offensive rebounds and transition. And like, Oh, the playoffs are slower. I think they proved last season that that's 50% myth and 50% real. It's, it's a little less real now,

Than conventional wisdom would suggest like their style persisted, but also they're more prepared to play a slower style this year with the way their second and third best players are playing. Man, I would be really, really tempted to make an incremental move if I were them, because I think they can win the West now. And if you can win the West, I know Boston and Milwaukee look like they're world beaters compared to everybody else. They just destroyed Milwaukee. If you can win, if you can make the finals, you got a shot.

Yeah, I mean, Kuzma, as you mentioned, is interesting just because he's got a player option. And if your price tag is too high, you just let him go, right? You just let him go or let him see what the market is. What Memphis has been great at, Zach, is A, they know who they are. They know who their main guys are, right? They know Ja, Jaron, Bane. And they basically salary slot guys, right? Tyus Jones, you know what?

He's $14 million guy. Brandon Clark. He's an $11 million guy. Like they, they don't overpay players here. They, they, they, as you said, they draft, they develop. I mean, they've got the secret sauce to draft them. They really do. I mean, as far as what they've been able to do in the past, as far as finding guys, uh,

who are not projected in the mocks to go high and then they don't care. You know, guy projected 45th. We're going to take him at 25. They'll also trade up if they just in case. Yeah. So I think that's the big thing. Like, I think it's great. Like, you know, last night they, they beat, you know, Milwaukee by four, 31,

41, right? That was a competitive game for zero seconds. The Bucs did not care. The Grizzlies punched them in the face. Like the Grizzlies, the Grizzlies open every game by punching you in the face and you have to decide

Do we feel like playing tonight or not? And on a Thursday night on national TV, the bucks were like, yeah, we're good. We're we'll just lay down. I knew it was going to be when, when Brooke started taking a Lopez took like three threes, like back to back to back. And it was like, okay, I think this one's going to get out of hand. It was only 14, eight at the time. And by the way, keep the NASA satenta Kumpo away from John Moran and all other stars who like to fly in the air, because that dude,

Look, he's an NBA player. He's better at his thing than I will ever be at any of my things. But he's playing like a hybrid of football and rugby and basketball out there. And he had a little thing with Morant in midair last night where Morant fell on the floor. Nothing happened. Keep him away. Yeah, I mean, I I think so. Going back there. I'm sorry. I'm a little I'm a little hyped up today, Bobby.

You're going to get Bain back. You're going to get Danny Green back. So the big question for them will be, do you trust that group of forwards come a Western Conference Finals, a Western Conference Semifinals, like game five on the road, right? Where you're going to need

Roddy Williams, Aldama grouping there. And can you swap one of them out for a more of an established player? Because I agree with you, man. This Western conference is wide open for the taking. And that, and that, and that,

That framing is true, but also undersells the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies are just awesome. The West doesn't have to be wide open for them to have a chance at it. They're an awesome, awesome team. Yeah, I was going to in Wendy's calm that comes out Tuesday. I'm actually going to write something different, but I was thinking like and I don't want I mean, I don't want to discredit what San Antonio has done.

you know, prior to the last couple of years, as far as that great run. Right. I mean, the championship Memphis hasn't won a championship, but they started to remind me a little bit like, like San Antonio ish because of how they've, they've drafted. They,

They develop, they've withstood injuries, they kind of plug and play. They know kind of guys that fit within their system here. Certainly a little bit, but the drafting as far as how they built this roster, yeah, I mean, they got a little lucky jaw as far as moving up from where they were at two.

Um, but I mean, Jaron Jackson, we can make an R you know, all NBA defensive probably. I mean, you know, I mean, you look in the box and I wrote, I wrote today he's missed 14 games. So he's only played like 12 or 13. He's not in the defense player of the year conversation because of that. It's time to put him in now. He, he,

I think he's been better than Brooke Lopez when he's played. He just hasn't played. I think he's been maybe the best defense player in the whole league this year when he's been on the floor. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, but I do think, yeah, you could say the window will be open. You know, we said that about Denver. I mean, a couple injuries here and there, but they're, you know, they're a good team here. I was going to say Denver. Denver. Nobody's talking about Denver. No.

They are the sleeping giant right now of the NBA. They're 17 and 10. They're third in the West. They're second in offense. Jokic is having an MVP level season again. They're 28th in defense, so they've got to figure out what the hell is going on there and who they should play and how much they need to play lineups with three of their good defenders on the floor instead of two.

I'm going to do a Denver thing next week, so I don't want to belabor it now, but they're a sleeping giant right now. They've got nothing from Michael Porter Jr. Their backcourt, their depth is Bones and Christian Brown, right? With Bruce Brown in the starting lineup, who's played great. Anyway, I don't know how we got that. Yeah, they're not one of my five. Pick another. Get me Kuzma to Memphis, and I'll be happy because Memphis is ready. Memphis is ready, and Roddy...

Big body Roddy. Maybe he's ready. I don't know. Maybe I love those guys who play in the pre-draft camp. Like he's one of those kids who played like the actual five on five, not just going one on O like him. Jalen Williams, Santa Clara, Jalen Williams. He's good, man.

Those guys played and we can't let these teams have two guys with the same name, even if it's spelled differently. This is going to be how many years it's going to be your six of like big man, Jalen Williams. Anyway, pick your pick a team for me, Atlanta.

Oh, I'm so glad you brought up Atlanta. I'm watching the Orlando game the other night when they're down. What was it like? Fifty four. Twenty eight. And I texted it with a team and I said, like, this is a kind of game that gets a coach fired. Like, I don't think Nate was going to get fired, but like that, like like that game. And I know you've got no Murray and Collins, but that you are basically in a game.

A luck, not a luck shot, but a tip-in shot against the Chicago Bulls from being on a major league skid here. Atlanta, man, they are funky. I mean, when you don't get good Trey, man, I don't know what to say. They have not been good at all here. And that's a team that when you go all in, basically, in the Murray trade and trade away a lot of draft picks, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, you know who would be good for them is Kevin Herter.

I mean, but that was a luxury tax dump to get out of the money there. But there are, for me, I've got them circled as far as one of those teams. I mean, from certainly we're going to hear about John Collins. We're going to hear about the other Bogdanovich. You know, like we're going to, you know, we texted before the one guy you said, like, hey, think about it. Here it comes. Here it comes. He said, put a list together for Trey Young.

We're probably a year away. We are. We're six months, seven months away from it. From the fake Trey Young trades becoming real podcast fodder. But this team, funky is the right word. Funky is the right. I talked about them a little bit with Verno last week. They were in New York last week for two games. Something is wrong with their team. I think multiple things at multiple levels are just fundamentally wrong with their team. And they're 14 and 15.

Minus two per game point differential. That's just bad. You're just a bad team with that point differential. They have talent. Murray and Young, the numbers are okay together. The style, the eye test is not. Do people love playing with Trey Young? Buzz just never stops. Who's actually making the decisions here? Stuff never stops.

why did we give up too much for DeJounte Murray? I mean, I said the day of that trade, I think I had Pelton on. I didn't like that trade for Atlanta. I thought that was too much for DeJounte Murray and too much to pair two guards together. And they haven't had Bogdanovich for a lot of the season. Capella's hurt now. It's a big deal for them. Collins has been hurt despite the fact he's always on the trade block. He's a really good player and that's a big deal for them. Something is just funky there. And, you know,

A lot of these teams I've mentioned this before that trade a boatload of picks, Minnesota being the prime example. I think bet at some point we can get those picks back if this fails by putting somebody else on the block. And my, one of my favorite fake trades that I made up earlier this year was John Collins, uh,

for Jay Crowder, Landry Schammett, and two first-round picks from Phoenix as a way to move Collins and recoup some of the draft equity and get a placeholder power forward in Crowder. I have no idea where Crowder is going to end up going. I'm kind of surprised he didn't get traded yesterday. I don't think that trade is really on the table, so to speak, but something's got to change there. Something's going to change there. And I remember, I'm not making this comparison, but I remember

A year before the hardened trade buzz started, I wrote in my crazy predictions column before the season that there would be a hardened trade buzz at some point in Houston. And it was really early and really, it was early, but you could just see the writing on the wall. Like there's always, you just have to, and I don't think that they're there with trade. The owners love trade. He sells tickets and all that.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a year we're making fake Trae Young trades, if this just doesn't work, depending on, again, who's making decisions for the team. Can I just put this into the universe, my favorite fake Trae Young trade? Go ahead. I have three teams, too, written down. Okay. So this one, like the basketball gods on Mount Russell need to make this happen in the event that this ever becomes a thing. Challenge trade.

Trey Young for Carl Anthony Towns straight up. And here's why it's delightful on every possible level. Number one, I was lobbying for the Wolves to trade their stash for DeJounte Murray instead of Rudy Gobert. Then you'd have Murray and Towns united in a different place, Atlanta.

And doesn't it just hasn't it always felt like destiny that Trey Young and Rudy Gobert, who are inverse players in every possible way, should play together? Like you do what I don't do. I do what you don't do. Let's pair up and see what happens. That's my favorite fake. Well, just give me just for fun. We're just having fun. This is just fun. I wrote teams down. I didn't I mean, I wrote Orlando down.

Yes, they're on my list. Orlando needs guards. Now they have a couple back now, but I wanted them to get into the Mitchell thing like it last last summer and they didn't. They're on my list. They are a Trey Young draft. Like they wanted to get up and draft Trey Young in that draft. Remember? And they ended up with Bomba, I think, instead of Trey Young.

I wrote New York down. They're on my list too. Yeah. Hey, Brunson Young backcourt. Let's go. Or you trade Brunson. You might have to trade Brunson. But the Knicks love Brunson. And B, if you're going to be the king of Broadway...

Be the king of Broadway. You're going to brag about how MSG is your house. Let's do it in MSG. Yeah, I wrote Chicago down. We're just having fun. We're just having fun. The Hawks are not trading Trey Young. I wrote Chicago down. They're on my list. We have the same teams. I know. So that's – yeah, that's my – and this is something we'll talk about probably –

Maybe may the bulls have a point guard. No, dude, the bulls have one point guard healthy on their team. No, I mean, obviously they have Lonzo. Yeah. I mean, every update on Lonzo, I'm really in a punchy mood today. Every update on Lonzo sounds like an update on an elderly hospital patient. It sounds like, like, Oh, well today he, he got up and walked around the hallway and

For a little bit. Like these updates are so depressing. I miss Lonzo. Yeah. I, you know, it's, I mean, I'm going to talk about, you know, you know, we always talk about the, I mean, I'm going to go off a little bit of a tangent here. We always talk about the Boston trade and, you know, and what was traded and Tatum and Brown and picks and stuff like that. And we don't have to live, relive your pain, Bobby. No, but I'm watching, I'm watching Boston Lakers the other night. Great game. And if I'm a Laker fan,

I'm nauseous watching Jason Tatum. You could have drafted him, right? You could have drafted him. If I'm the Sixers, we don't have to go there. I'm nauseous watching Jason Tatum here. You could have drafted him. So that's my rant. Are you sick? The Markel Fultz pick didn't work out. No, I don't think that worked out. Speaking of Orlando guards, um,

But yeah, I mean, with, with Lonzo, like I know it was like, Hey, there were 27, 14 last year. There were 39 and 21 at one time. Like eventually like you have to plan that this guy's not coming back here. Well, this is, it reminds me of the Lakers. They're like the Lakers are 11 and 16. They were eight and two for a 10 game stretch and people went crazy. Well, now they're nine and six in a 15 game stretch. And it's like, at some point your actual win total is,

It's not like a theoretical like, oh, but they did this for these 10 games. And when they have these guys on the court, they're plus whatever. Like at some point, the standings are what ends up quick. That's how you qualify for the playoffs. And they're 11 and 16. And yeah, it's cool that the Bulls had a nice 45 games last year. That's over. It's gone. And the updates about Lonzo are like, well, he's not really walking up the stairs yet. It's like, Jesus Christ.

Yeah, I don't know how they that the draggage. I mean, we see Kobe. I forgot about Goran. Goran's been good for them. Kobe White. I don't know what Kobe White is. You know, I mean, like, it's just. All right. Give me another team. Should we do Chicago? Is Chicago on your list? They're on my list. Yeah.

They're on my list just because, like, it's, you know, it's so weird. Like, you go all from, I mean, 2021, right? That was the deadline where they got Vooch in the trade for Orlando. And then you get DeMar and you do Lonzo and you basically have traded away most of your first round picks, right? And you've got to- And you give Levine the full boat. Yeah. And now basically what they are is they're the Orlando magic from three years ago. Oh, yeah.

I know they're the Evan Fournier a little bit of the Evan Fournier Aaron Gordon which Orlando Magic and I don't even know if they are because that the land of magic team was an eight seed yeah they pioneered winning game one of a playoff series and getting everyone excited for five seconds and Toronto to like oh is it whoa one all magic um so Augustine hit some shots down the stretch

So are you, I mean, do you eventually have to, I mean, I hate when people say blow it up. You know, I don't like that word just because it's like, it's oh yeah, well, it's easy to say that. But like, but eventually do you have to pivot?

I mean, you have got the Rosen got another year left. He's going to want an extension in the off season. Vooch is a free agent. He's extension eligible right now. Zach's two 15. I mean, talk about a big number. That's a big number. If I'm the bulls, I am not extending Vooch of it unless it's a pay cut. I'm just not. Yeah. And you look at, you look at these deals, um,

For centers. 12 to 14 million. Yeah. Or like, or even 16, 17, 18 for no, like Memphis has no regrets about Steven Adams. The Pelicans have no regrets about Jonas Valanciunas. Who's in that range.

Now, proportionally, I guess that means 20 or 21 for Vooch as the cap goes up. Like if he wants to raise off his current salary, which is around 20, I don't care about all the stuff I traded for him. That's a sunk cost. I'm not doing that deal. If you're willing to come back on a proportional deal, that's just sort of like those Valanciunas Adams deals.

I can make that work because Vooch is a good player. He's a good player with clear strengths, clear weaknesses. He's overrated as a shooter, but he's a good player, but I'm not extending him at some like, you know, 120% of his current salary or whatever it ends. Like, I'm just not doing that. I'm not. Yeah. I mean, so then it's like, so is it him? Is it, is it, do you start looking at stuff for DeMar? Um,

I mean, the exact number, and we talked about Bueller, the exact number is not easy to move either. I mean, that's a big number that keeps on going up. And that's, I mean, segue to different, a little bit, like I talked with a team and we were talking about like rookie extensions and I talked with Tim McMahon about it and they said like, rookie extensions are the easy ones to do.

right? Like you're just buying stock. And if it doesn't work out like these second and third contracts or some fourth contracts, man, like you are buying, they buying almost like a,

a nice Mercedes that's got like 50,000 miles on it. Like it's, it's, those are going to be harder to move. So I just think Chicago for me is interesting because like, we've always talked about Patrick Williams. He was kind of their big trade asset was easy, untouchable. He's played, he's played pretty well this year. Right. I mean, he kind of went from starter to bench back to starter. He shoots now sometimes. Yeah. I'm by the way, I'm, I am never,

I don't know how long it's going to take me for me to not be a Patrick Williams believer. And I was never like, I never like Kawhi 2.0. They call him the paw instead of the claw. That was always ridiculous. And I understand that he looks the part more than plays the part. He's younger than like eight of the guys who just got drafted in the first round. So I, people are out on him too early. I still think he's going to be a good player. Yeah. I agree. I mean, like, so I'm just looking at them like,

How is this roster? If it's not going to get better, do they do take a step back, even though they know they owe some of these picks out already? Orlando, they're protected, the top four. They will pick the San Antone two years after here. So that's a team that certainly intrigues me. Or do they...

You do have to always remember the blow it up crowd needs to remember that pick is top four protected. You could blow it up and your odds of keeping your own pick are much less than 50-50 or a little bit less depending on how bad it gets. They could go – again, I keep reminding people, the Bulls have to pick a lane. They just picked a lane. They just picked this lane like 18 months ago. No time has passed.

And it could be that maybe instead of blowing it up, maybe they try to look for deals that kind of shuffle the veteran deck chairs a little bit. Like let's, let's stay at the same age curve, stay in kind of wind now or tread water now mode, but with it, with a different crew, because I just don't, the Lakers talk has been obsessive with them. Right. And like DeRozan would be the nuclear bomb dropped in the trade market. He's the guy that would trade, change everything if they made them available. You know, I keep saying with the Lakers, like,

You want to put Vooch on the Lakers. You want to take Russ off the Lakers. Just remember two things. Number one, Anthony Davis is playing center. And number two, they actually need Russ's playmaking. So if you're going to take that off, you can't take it off lightly and not replace it with playmaking. Now, DeRozan is a good to very good passer.

but he's a scorer first. And I think he'd fit anywhere fine. I think he's reached that point where he just knows how to play everywhere. But just remember, when you're making fake Laker trades that have centers going to their team, just remember who their center is right now and why he's thriving the way that he is, which is why you have said many times you think a smaller deal involving like Nunn, Beverly, one pick. I can't decide, Bobby. I guess we have to do Lakers talk. I can't decide if that's smart. Like my thing all year has been

I kind of want it to be all or nothing for the Lakers. The half measure deals like, oh, we could trade Beverly and none and one 2027 first for make up a good Kuzma. Like that sounds nice and it's exciting. And you talk yourself into like, oh, we only gave up one pick. And it's like, what is that even kind of worse? Like it's like the no half measures rule from.

What's his name? Mike Ehrmantraut, the great Mike Ehrmantraut. No half measures, man. No half measures, Walt. I don't know how to feel about that unless they do. They try to do the thing where it's like it's it's it's one lottery protected pick. And if you don't get it that year, it becomes two seconds. It's a one shot deal. And like teams are going to be like, well, that stinks. I don't want to do that.

Yeah. I mean, and I understand why the Lakers would, you know, because they're so limited as far as what they can trade. I mean, so they can hopefully that you don't trade two, you keep one and you use another one for another deal. Right. I mean, that's, but it's for me, it's almost like you're either going to be all in or you're not going to be at all. Like you're, it's going to be either a rousing success. It's or it's going to be a massive flame out. Right. Like there's no in between here.

And I don't know who that all-in guy is. You know, I mean, players. I mean, I don't – Turner, Heald, certainly we've talked – heard about that. Yeah, the Pacers just keep winning their way out of that conversation. Yeah, I mean, Indiana, Utah, teams like that, that keep on – you know, they're not –

Utah's not going anywhere. I don't see unless they get a bunch of, you know, when marketing in the lineup, you know, like team. Well, the one guy on Utah that, you know, everyone talks about Clarkson, Mark and Sexton, but, you know, Bogdanovich when he was on Utah, the one guy that I mentioned for new Orleans, when I had Andrew Lopez on and new Orleans has lost two in a row to Utah, ironically,

I think they have a pretty deep roster when they get Ingram back and Alvarado missed the game last night. I don't know that they actually need or should do anything with all their gigantic amount of picks. I think Malik Beasley is underrated. He's a, he's a good player and he's a movement shooter, which is a really valuable dimension to have their shooters. And then there are shooters who can shoot off really fast movement. He's made a ton of threes over the last two or three years. He's a,

I, one of these teams should be taking a hard look at him. I mean that I mentioned new Orleans because they have all these ball handlers and they're a brutality team. They don't take any threes. Toronto can't make any threes. We should talk about Toronto. He's, he's just like, I, I would, I would, I would look hard at him if I were some of these teams. Well, and that's in the game on Thursday night or yeah, Thursday night, their offense got a little stagnant at the end. You know, we've got a lot of like, you know, you're kind of,

Either with CJ or kind of waiting for Zion to kind of create off the dribble. I mean, it just got, it got stagnant. I mean, I'm thinking about new Orleans and I was thinking like, I wonder if new Orleans knew like what this team would be right now, you know, whatever, nine or 10 games above 500, would they have been more aggressive with Durant in the summer?

You know, if you knew you had a healthy Zion and you knew that the younger players would kind of be who they are, you know, would you have been more because you because you imagine Durant on this roster in the summer? That's what you're what you're saying is Ingram summer. That means, yes, Ingram. That's a tough one. All right. I'm going to give you a list of teams. Yeah. And you're going to pick one. Yep.

I would call this list, whatever level of urgency they had to upgrade their roster at the beginning of the season has probably increased today, given how their seasons have gone. Phoenix, Miami, Dallas, and I don't know that they quite fit my conceit, but I'm going to include them anyway. The single biggest mystery in the NBA heading to the trade deadline, Toronto. So Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, Toronto.

The first three, at least whatever urgency they felt, you know, Phoenix might've been Durant only. And it's unclear how aggressive they ever got there. Well, now they're, you know, they beat the JV Clippers last night, but they've been reeling injuries still, but really Dallas, just a miserable team to watch miserable. Luca's body language. I wrote today. It's, it's reaching LeBron in 2018 before the trade deadline levels of poutiness. Uh, they're, they're 500 Miami back to 500 last night after, um,

a nice win over the Rockets. Tyler here is playing great. And then Toronto two games under just not playing well, just not just they, they've gotten healthier. They lost at home to Sacramento in a game that I watched. And it's like, something's not right with this team. Pick, pick one or two of those teams and that's where we'll end. Yeah. I mean, I, I trust Miami. I, I trust them enough. Um, Phoenix injuries. Certainly. Um, I'm going to pick, and I had two of the, two of the teams on there on my list. I Dallas and Toronto on my list. I'm going to pick Dallas. Okay. Um,

I'm not going to talk about Brunson. We know, we know what happened. Yeah. He's not coming back. Like it is what it is. I look at them. We're, how can you get another, a number one, one or two, probably number two, you know, there's not enough one, eight, a Luca Luca will be always be the number one guy. Um,

You got a ton of these sweet spot contracts. The Dinwiddie's, the Finney Smith, the Reggie Bullock, Kleber's out right now. I think your name I got to put in there is Christian Wood. Yeah, Christian Wood, who's extension eligible in about 10 days, I think, nine days. We'll see what happens there.

I think you definitely have to put his name in there. Three first round picks. You can move, you know, three. Well, they'll have to take that protection off the next one. Next pick is top 10 protected in 23 and then it rolls over 24 and 25. So you, you, if you, I don't know if you can do that though. I don't know if you can take the protection off, but again,

Again, they're in my urgency increased group because I've called them team holding pattern all season. Like Tim McMahon and I've talked a lot on this podcast about how they're not going to make a half measure deal. They're not going to turn one pick or two picks into an okay, into Brunson 2.0. They're going to hunt for the one a. Yep. I think that is probably still true, but that they did not expect to be 14 and 14. And this just kind of at this point in the season,

And you just have to watch Luka play to realize he's just moping around out there. And they've all talked publicly about how...

this level of usage for him is not sustainable and not a path to us winning the way we want to win. And so I think, although I still would agree that that general idea that their team holding pattern is true, I think they're going to look around at the deadline for an upgrade this season more urgently than they plan to. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the Cleveland loss the other night is probably a good example. You know, I mean, you lose at home, uh,

You know, Luca does this thing and you basically like, I mean, I mean the combination of Dinwiddie Hardaway, Finney Smith scored 20 points.

I mean, and you're going to get your Christian Wood 20 off the bench, right? So like, I just think eventually like the frustration level. And I saw at the end of, I think it was the Milwaukee game last Friday when they missed a ton of free throw. I think it was 14 or 15 free throws. I think the frustration level will eventually build. And I know Lucas and I think you're one of that, that max, the rookie max deal, but yeah,

You go from a conference finalist and I get it. If they're making shots, they're going to be, you know, in most of these games here, but like, you can't always just rely on that. If you had to, if someone asked me this about a month ago, I'll put me on the spot just in a random phone call. Who's your ideal number two guy for Luca and the parameters to me on the, on the spot, just spitball in session where you got to be a realistic, like you can't, you can't say Giannis, you know, you can't say these guys that are not going to be available to you.

Just craft. Give me a guy and I'll tell you who my answers were. And again, these players are not available to them, but they're also not like MVP level players yet. Anyway, who did you think of? Yeah, I mean, he hasn't played well at all this year. Well, that all and he's he came off injury. I've wrote Chris Middleton.

That's interesting. I like that. I like that. I looked at it not really as a trade deadline deal. When I say I like that, I don't mean that it's a thing. I like the idea. I just like it as far as a number two. He's a number two. You're right. The ones out there, the Trae Youngs, those guys. Chris Middleton, who is a 20-point guy,

kind of knows what his role is here and can play off of Luka. I don't know how you get him, but that would be my guy. You don't get Chris Milton. Yeah, but that's who I'm thinking. So I came up, and again, this guy put me on the spot. My brain went to defense first big man with some screening and playmaking capabilities. So I said...

If you could find somebody like Bam out of bio or Evan Mobley, those were, and again, Cleveland is not trading Evan Mobley for anything. That dude is so freaking good. And he's 21. It's ridiculous how good he's going to be. And Miami Bam has been, Bam has been quietly sensational this year. Everyone was yelling at Bam to increase his scoring. He did. He's been great. Not available, not going to be traded. Those were the names that I, that just sort of came to my head. And so to tie up Dallas and Toronto,

You know, you keep hearing people talk about Toronto. Is Toronto going to blow it up? Should Toronto blow it up? There are two games under 500. I saw somebody tweet Nate Jones, a very smart agent, tweeted yesterday. I've got my eye on Toronto.

will they blow it up and reset around Scottie Barnes? Get younger, in other words, right? And I said last week, they're the most talked about team behind the scenes in the NBA right now. People are very curious. Rival teams, the other 29 teams are very curious what they're going to do. I think this recent losing skid, they've lost three straight. I think the vultures are starting to circle and the calls are starting to come in and Toronto is just shoving them away, shoving them away.

Van Vliet's extension eligible. He's expiring, basically. Gary Trent has a player option for next year. OGN and OB has a player option for 24-25. He's going to for sure turn down. There's a lot of potential. They could buy. They could sell. They could bet on themselves like they did last year when they made a big run to get the fifth seed. I think if you asked me to predict today, what is Toronto going to do over the next two months in February? I would say, and I'd be interested to hear if you agree or disagree,

I would say mostly Stan Pat, probably trade Gary Trent, mostly Stan Pat and deal with all these other issues later and bet on their roster to make a run going forward. What would you predict? Yeah, I mean, that's similar to what they did in 2021.

the year they traded Norm Powell for Trent. It was kind of that deadline deal because they weren't gung-ho on paying Powell big money, and they traded for Trent. I think that's something you would probably be more realistic. I look at Toronto, and I feel like they've run out of gas a little bit. There are nights where you're just kind of

you're, you're going seven guys, right? You're going seven, eight guys. Minutes have been heavy. I mean, like you didn't, the other guy, Siakam, right? Like that's a, you know, what do you do with Siakam? Right. He's got this year. He's, you know, he's got this year and next year left. You're going to have to pay. Hey, when he, before that injury, man, like he was, you know, he's played at an all, all NBA level. So you're going to have to figure out what you want to do with him too. Well, and he would be super max eligible if he makes it all NBA. Correct. Yep. Um,

To your point about running out of gas, I think there's a couple things that work there. I think, number one, they're not surprising the league anymore with their, oh my God, look at all these tall guys. They're switching and blah, blah. Number two, they're 29th in half-court offense, and it's just a slog. It's just a slog of ISOs, post-ups, whatever.

If they can't score in transition, they can't score. And I said this last week, you can rig the possession game all you want. Rig the rebounding game, rig the turnover game, get seven more shots than your opponents. If you're 29th in half court offense, if the only team that's less efficient than you in the half court is the Houston Rockets, you are not going to win playoff games. I don't care about all the other stuff. You can dress it up all you want. You're not going to win playoff games. And I think that style, it's just...

It's kind of taken the air out of their team on some nights. It's just such a slog. And you, between Barnes and Siakam and Van Vliet and even Ananobi got four guys who really just kind of pound it. Sometimes it's not that they want the ball. It's not that there's, I'm not saying that there's this tension about who's the guy and this and that. I think that probably exists. It exists on a lot of teams. I'm sure OG Ananobi wants more touches. I'm sure he does. That's not, that's a tip. That's a day-to-day NBA problem in 25 cities. Yeah.

I I'm talking more style they're just pounders and pounders and pounders and it's just right now it I still think they'll go on a run just on pure talent they haven't had a Chua and an Obis hurt now I like their team I was high on their team before the season but it the eye test for them is bad right now yeah I mean I it feels like whenever I watch them I feel like they can win any game right I feel like they're but they could also like you know like

You'll lose your sacrament, the Sacramento game the other night, the Orlando two games last weekend. Disappointing. Brutal. Disappointing.

More competitive the first game than the second game. You know, like this disappointing here. And, you know, the big question will always be depth, right? You saw it last year at deadline, you know, go out and get Thaddeus, right? But I just look at them, shooters, playmakers, right? Like that's kind of... They cannot make a three. It's...

And without Van Vliet, they just, they don't have enough off the dribble creation. And you mentioned Siakam and I'll say the same thing about him. As I said about Trey young, like if you're talking about blowing it up and getting it younger, and this is a theoretical discussion that the league is having, well, don't you have to talk about Siakam? Like Siakam is the oldest veteran on the team. Like, and he's not old, he's 29 or whatever he is. But if that's what you're talking about and his contract is up in two years and he's eligible for a super max, then,

Like, don't you have to game it out? Like, where would he fit? What teams might inquire about him? You have to do that. I don't think Toronto wants to do that. They love Siakam. He's an all NBA level player, full stop. He's a great homegrown draft story. They're happy to. He's just entering the middle of his prime. Like, I don't think there's to be very clear.

I don't think there's even smoke. I don't think there's anything. But I'm just saying, if you get to that point as an organization, or if you are a team that wants to talk turkey with Toronto, don't you have to game that out? Oh, I think you have to. I mean, you're only kind of doing your due diligence, and that's probably why it will be likely more of a conversation in the offseason with him going into an expiring. Right? I mean, that's...

That's, that's, that's the big, you know, and when I said connected with Dallas, I just said, if you're asking me around the league, this guy put me on the spot and said, who's a great number two for Luca. And those are the names I mentioned. See, I confess that bill. If I'm Phoenix and I'm just kind of flailing around and I want someone that's in between Booker and Paul age wise, it's a name I'd look at. Yeah. Just saying like, he's really freaking good. If I'm Atlanta and I'm trying to just kind of re reorient my team,

And I have to trade John Collins just because I guess the rules of basketball are that eventually you have to trade John Collins. I'm just saying. But again, I think I'd still bet on Toronto in the muddled East. It's always when you talk about a team that at their lowest point, it always feels so negative and so hopeless. Like if they win tonight, I don't even know they're playing tonight. Brooklyn, Brooklyn.

We almost made it through an hour and seven minutes. Hey, man, look, give them credit. They should get credit. Yeah. Give them credit. Now, what they've done is take care of business. Yeah. Three weeks ago or two weeks ago on this podcast, I did like a six minute monologue. I said, it's now or never for Brooklyn. Kyrie's back from the nonsense. Simmons was looking like Simmons-ish again. The schedule was getting easy, full of teams as good or worse than them. Take care of business. And they did.

They did. They're 17 and 12. They did exactly what they had to do to save their season, to save this iteration of their team. Do I have any faith that they can win the title this year? No. Do I have any faith that this will be stable for another month or six weeks? No, but they've done what they needed to do. And I think they've taken themselves out of seller category for sure. And maybe into buyer category. Yeah. I think for me, for Brooklyn, it's more about like, can we trade some of our offense for some, for, for a little defense? Yeah.

you know, is it, but it's crazy because the Indiana game, when they had nobody there, you know, the, they basically rolled out nine guys. I want to get fine 25 grand. Like I forgot they got fined second. You know, they're, they're, they're in the bottom and like second chance points, re offensive rebounding. I mean, they kicked the crap out of Indiana, right? Like they're on sharp, that whole marquee more is that whole group. So like for me, for Brooklyn is like,

Joe Harris, Cam Thomas, not Patty Mills because he's too valuable off the court for them. But like guys like that, what can you parlay them into? Like, is there something else out there? And by the way, I said, as soon as the Kyrie stuff went crazy, I said, teams are going to start asking about Durant. And-

I called it, I think I called it almost inevitable that whether it's this year or next year, at some point, Brooklyn will have to cross the Rubicon with Durant because I just don't see this as a salvageable situation.

It's on the table now that I'm wrong. I still don't think I'm wrong, but it's on the table now. They've done enough to stabilize this. Now, Kyrie's a free agent. Simmons is up and down. I still wouldn't bet on it, but they have... And I was far from the only one saying that. Everybody was saying that in the media. Everybody was. And I don't think you're wrong. I think you're just more of in a holding pattern right now. I mean, in seven months from now, we're going to be talking about it because eventually you're going to have to figure out

what you're going to do with Kyrie Irving when he becomes a free agent, if Joe Cy wants to resign him. And when, if he doesn't want to resign him, I'm sure you're going to have a, uh, an MVP guy and Kevin Durant thinking like, wait a minute, it's just me and Ben Simmons left. So eventually they will have to have that unless Irving's going to be back. Right. Like that's just the reality of it. Um,

Covered a lot of ground here. Any last minute teams you want to get into that we didn't get? No, I had them all at Toronto, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas. Those were my those were my Chicago. Those are my group. I didn't want to I don't want to go, you know, the, you know, the Utah's and the Indiana's of the roles. I'm sure we can talk about them when we get closer to February 9th here. But, you know, as you said, there's probably more buyers out there than sellers. I'm sure once the standings in a month from now probably shakes that out a little bit.

CBA, we'll probably hear more CBA stuff. What happens there? I'll give you two. I'm just going to mention two teams. I'm curious about Sacramento, who is absolutely desperate to make the playoffs and playing well, but should not just sit on their laurels and say, well, we're playing well. We're set. We're six in the West. We're for sure going to make the playoffs. Curious to see what they do. And there's one team that always seems to come up with something.

that surprises the NBA, which is rare. An out of nowhere trade, both big or small. They seem to do something every deadline, whether they're contending or whether they're treading water. And that's the Clippers. And we haven't talked about them hardly at all other than making fun of their injury report. They are 17 and 14 with a negative point differential, but they've been awesome in the rare minutes they've had their actual team.

Will they have their actual team? I have no idea when and where and how and for how long. They're overstuffed with rotation players. That has not been an issue yet. I said before the season, they're going to need all these guys. They have a pick to trade. I don't know what they could get or who they could package or how many of their support players have any kind of like big league wide appeal. I just know they have a history of coming off the top rope when you don't expect it.

And so I would, I'm just watching them. That's all. Yeah. I mean, they were like last year with the Powell Covington trade. Like we, whenever we don't think they have enough to trade, they do. And they've got a lot of these guys, these 10 to $20 million contracts, right? The canards, the Covingtons, that whole group. Yeah. They're limited with draft picks as far as what they can trade because of the, the OKC deal here, but they do have, you know, like for me, my big question is, is, you know, is there enough body of work to not do anything right. To,

not, not do anything at all. So Sacramento is another team. Like how sustainable is their roster? If one of their main guys goes down, like we, we saw what the Aaron out, like they struggled here. You know, they had a great win in, in, in Toronto the other, other night. What do you do at Harrison Barnes on expiring? Do you extend him? You know, I he's, you know, he's, you know, played well for most of the season here. So that's you know, especially when, especially when you haven't made the playoffs in 16 years and, and,

If you're hovering around that 60, where they are right now, you kind of push a little bit more in. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And there are a lot of Harrison Barnes fake trades out there, and I've done my share of them. I would be careful with that. He's a good glue guy for them. Yeah.

Keegan Murray's a rookie. I would be careful with that. There's been a lot of one-for-six nights for Keegan Murray. He'll figure it out. But I think the Summer League, what he did in Vegas, we were like, whoa! It's a little bit different from what you do in Summer League to mid-December. And on the Clippers...

This is year four, man. This might be it. You can no longer just be like, well, we'll have these guys for a couple more years, Kawhi and PG. Three, four more years. Our window is open forever. Just got them. Everyone's happy. We just got them. Balmer screaming at the press conference. Armpits sweaty. The whole thing. This might be it. You never know if this is going to be it. You can't.

You can't just rest on your laurels. That's all I'm saying. You can't rest on the numbers in 142 minutes, Kawhi and PG are plus 64. That's cool. It's 142 minutes, man. Like, is it going to be 500 minutes ever? And even if it is 500 minutes, like if there's a year to try something, this might be the year. It's going to be a fun couple of months, man. Yeah, it should be fun.

Well, I hope you have a good holiday season. I will see you soon. Stay safe down in Florida. And what else we got to look out for? I know you're contributing to that hoop collective column. Brian's thing every week. What else? I'm heading out to Vegas for a little G League showcase over Sunday to Wednesday. So I'll be out there, which always is fun. You throwing money on the table in Vegas? Nope. I don't even stay at a casino. Really? I don't.

Near do I actually, when I go out there, I stay at anonymous non-casino hotel that I'll not reveal. We've got a big article coming out Monday. Kind of what we just did here. We take all 30 teams, big questions to ask. It's not the main trade guide that will come out in January. Poop Collective Tuesday. I think I'm going to write Charlotte.

you know, a little Charlotte as far as, Ooh, not good. All in for Victor, baby. That's what they should do. Bobby Marks. Thank you for all the work you do across ESPN's many platforms. I'm sure I will see you soon at the latest at the trade deadline. Always good to see you. Thank you, sir. You're welcome. Thank you.