Dreamcatcher w/ Jessica McKenna & Curtis Gwinn (HDTGM Matinee)
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It's like Stand By Me meets Mac and Me meets Alien during John Carpenter's The Thing. And when you put all that together, you get a big old mess and shit aliens. We saw Dreamcatcher, so you know what that means. Now it's time for How to Discapate. We're gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure. Not just be a hater, cause you know you're one. How to Discapate. Let's all win the mediocrity of subpar art.

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

I wish June was going to be there to try and make sense of this. Oh, is this movie, I mean, the wig work alone would have really taken her down a path. But we have some amazing guests today to talk about this movie. And I am glad that they're here. Please welcome our first guest, a returning How Did This Get Made all-star from episode five, Drive Angry. You know this guy. He writes...

On amazing shows like The Walking Dead and Leftovers and The Bastard Executioner and Narcos. He just recently sold a show to FX. Please welcome Curtis Gwynn. Hi, how you doing? I'm flattered that you say people would know me. TV writers are so well-known.

No, no, no. They would know you from episode five of How Did This Get Made. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The listeners to this podcast, that's what they care about. You're an all-star. You're on a Nick Cage episode, a classic episode. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And someone who I want to say right before we started recording said that he has read this book and watched this movie three times. That's right. That's right. Well, I was excited to bring you to this because I thought, I was like, oh, if there's somebody that could really talk about this movie, it will be Curtis. And-

I'm glad it worked out here. We also have another guest joining us today. She's awesome. Hilariously funny. She has a brand new ABC digital show called Serious Music. You've seen her on Comedy Bang Bang, the UCB show, and Party Over Here. Please welcome Jessica McKenna. Oh, hi. Hi. I'm really excited to ask you about that middle time you saw Dreamcatcher. I understand. I'm excited. Got to see the theater. I should refresh for this podcast. What's the middle time? I don't know.

The middle time is the, I feel like the one where you're like, you know, I'm going to try and make sense of it. Well, I did see the second, the middle time really was, I said it before we came in, you know, that I had locked myself out of my apartment in New York City. So I had actually seen it by my own volition. Then a week later, locked myself out of my apartment, went across the stage of the movie theater and was like, middle of the day, it was like the only thing and I rewatched it. So you saw it twice? In one week. You'd wait to see it twice in one week. Like 10, 11 dollars. But by the way,

I would see this twice in the theater just because I rewound it many times going, what am I watching? And even when I tried to break down the plot, I was like, okay, so this is about, and again, just for you who've not seen it yet, I'll kind of,

This is a mashup of all the Stephen King stories. That's right. I think it's all of them crumbled into one. So basically, if you were to really peel away all the layers of it, you would say an alien attack in a small town during a blizzard and four friends with psychic powers have to defeat it. I mean, that is the most... But it has, yes. But there's also the added...

The added Stephen King-ian kind of thing, which is these kids, these men, because it's four, like, grown men. It's Jason Lee. It's Homeland. Timothy Oliphant. Tim Oliphant. And who's the fourth? Thomas Jane. Oh, Tom Jane. Oh, God. Tom Jane Punisher. So it's those four guys, but you flashback to when they're kids a lot, and so they've been being groomed.

by another alien who's on Earth to prepare for the alien invasion. Dudettes. Which they don't know. So there's also this kind of predestination kind of kids are meant to... But I will argue with the main theory of that because when you bring in...

Morgan Freeman's character, which we should get into. Oh, God. He's so many people in this movie. Oh, yeah. Let's just, again, to say at the top of this, amazing people in this movie. Like, I mean, this movie is... This is a Lawrence Kasdan movie. Yeah, what I was going to say was it's not just an amalgam of the hodgepodge of Stephen King stuff. It's also a hodgepodge of the other two components of this,

uh, Lawrence Kasdan and, uh, William Goldman. Yes. I mean, William, William Goldman wrote the original script and, and, um, apparently I've read interviews with Lawrence Kasdan where he basically just brushed it off. And then I read that William Goldman's involvement in it. And William Goldman's a fucking legend. Yeah. And then Stephen King also was like, yeah, Goldman turned in a draft and, uh,

Like, Larry rewrote it. You know, Larry punched it up. But you can see it is, like, it is it or Stranger Things with the big chill. I mean, that is why Lawrence Kasdan was like, I can make this. Oh, yeah. Even though he never did horror. And it, well, I think it fails on a couple levels there, too, because it's not scary. It's not like, it's like there's a moment or two of, like, it's gross. Yeah, it's definitely gross. It's real gross. Yeah. Yeah.

But it also, it feels very dated. It feels like a little, like when you, there's a, it feels, for this movie came out in 2003 and it feels like if you said this came out in like 1990, you would have been like, oh yeah, of course. The only thing that makes it 2003 is that the effects are better. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like stuff looks okay. It's extremely, I mean, again, look at the three people

At the top of the ticket here. Lawrence Kasdan, William Goldman, and Stephen King. There are wipes. Yeah. There are wipes all over this movie. I couldn't believe it. I was stymied by that. In a way, I admire it because it really is a project of, like, people who can do anything and get... You know, the budget was something like $65 million. I was going to say, it's got to be a huge budget. $68 million. Yeah. And, you know, Stephen King...

At the time, he was doing, he was like very pro Dreamcatcher and he hadn't done press for any movies. Like, I,

Like, 20 years. He hated his movies. He was like, this movie is great. Really? And he did massive press tours for it, which he never did. He sold the rights to it for $1, I think, because he wanted to really make this movie. No, that's his thing. He always sells everything for $1. Oh, okay, okay. But now, two years ago, he said, oh, he had just suffered, he had just been hit by a car. Oh, yeah. Stephen King, and he almost died. Whoa, just like...

Exactly. Just like Jonesy. Yeah, he wrote that in because this is what he wrote, the first thing he wrote. Longhand. Longhand. He said completely on Oxycontin. Whoa. And that he hates it. That he thinks it's terrible. He goes, oh, it's awful. Just awful. By the way, that makes sense. That makes sense that this was written entirely on Oxycontin. Oxycontin. And after a trauma. It is a jumble of nonsense.

Is this like the book? Is this very close to the book? I would say that for a 90 – the book is over 600 pages. Yeah, wow. So it's a real epic Stephen King book. The book is – now look, again, I am a massive Stephen King fan. I couldn't be any bigger. I love William Goldman and I really like Lawrence Kasdan a lot. I love these people, so it hurts me to say, but it was crap. I mean the book was brutally bad and repetitive. Yeah.

And one of the only reasons I went to see the movie the first time is because he makes reference to it. I was going to ask you about this. Oh, I'm so sorry. No, no, this is perfect. Which is one of my favorite books ever. Who does and when? Stephen King late in the climax of Dreamcatcher in the book, not in the movie. Oh, oh, oh, okay. He makes reference to it. So they take place in the same universe. They take place in the same town. Well, yeah, it's in Derry, Maine. And they were saying that in the movie, I believe, there is...

a couple like little throws to it, which is like, there's, um, they, they, they think there's like a Pennywise lives on like a sign at one point, not really featured, but also, but here's a question I had, and this is my bad memory of it.

Is the name of Pennywise also Mr. Gray as well? Or is that like the – I don't think so. Okay. All right. Okay. Then that was my – Unless there's a bigger Stephen King nerd in the essence. Wait. Is Pennywise an alien? No. Well, think of it in Lovecraftian terms. Okay. He's sort of a – he could potentially be an interstellar sort of cosmic – Okay. All right. Like some sort of celestial being. Interdimensional creature that personifies evil.

Wow. Sounds scary. We have not yet really started to talk about the movie. And the fact is, like, yeah, go ahead, Paul. I was going to say, also just another thing about the Stephen King book, just to even get, like, the original title of this book was called Cancer. Yeah. Whoa. And it was.

And it was written because – and this is a quote I have from Stephen King about it. It was – You talked to Stephen King? I got him on the phone real quick. I do want Blake to talk to him. He might be able to. He said the whole reason for writing the novel was the scene where the guy shits out the alien –

And that's the scene that became the driving force of the book. And by the way, spoiler alert, guy shits out an alien. And if you think that's the only time an alien comes out of someone's ass, you're wrong. He said, so he said, you know, the idea used to be the ultimate taboo was what's behind the bedroom door. And he's like, the new taboo is what's behind the bathroom door. Because most people now realize they have cancer in bathrooms and they find blood in their stool.

And he felt like that is the new terrifying experience. That's so dark. But I also feel like Cancer as a title would make more sense than Dreamcatcher, which is just an offhanded moment where they're like, dud, it's we made this in arts and crafts. I have no, and this is now, so let's get into this movie. I couldn't understand Dreamcatcher at all. Guys, we haven't talked about anything yet.

Oxycon's a hell of a drug man. Now the memory house makes so much more sense right now. All of the storylines are all over. I don't even know. How do you want to start? Let's try to break it down. You meet these four guys who all have...

psychic powers. Like, we have a therapist who can read minds. We have a guy who works in an auto dealership who helps people find their keys. We have a guy who's a drunk. What's Tom Jane's power?

He's a psychic. He can read minds. Oh, okay. Oh, no, no, Tom Jane. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Damien Lewis. Yeah, what's Damien Lewis's? Why does Damien Lewis have this memory? Like, do they all have this? They have telepathy. They do say we all got one, but he's the only one who seems to access it. Who's like cultivated it. Yeah. They were like, you remember he used to talk about this all the time, his memory house? Yeah. But he can hear other people's thoughts too. When he's about to cross the street, he says to the guy next to him, what'd you say? Yeah. So, and I think they all can connect with each other.

Yeah, because when they're kids, they're all telepathically talking to each other. And it was given to them by this mentally handicapped child. Yeah, they come. Duddits. The movie, this happens in the movie. This happens in the movie. The movie begins. We are introduced to the four men.

In their independent lives. Yes. And they all are kind of calling each other to check in. They're going to go blah, blah, blah, visit dudettes or whatever. One of them is casually about to kill himself. Yeah. Tom Jane is a psychiatrist who is treating a patient. The patient leaves. He goes to his desk. This is in minute two. Pulls out a revolver, puts it to his head. But can I say just from a writing perspective that –

Those are facts, what you just said. But what makes it really terrible is that –

It is the opposite of, look, I'm not a big save the cat guy per se, this Blake Snyder thing of like the hero's guy. But these guys are terrible people. The first guy, Thomas Jane, is like, you're a fat, he's like, you're a fat, he's writing negative thing about his fat patient. And then he like drives this guy. And this poor guy is talking about, the opening monologue is about Carl's Jr. hamburger. Yes. That's what the guy's in therapy for? Yeah. And then he's awful to this guy. And then he puts a gun to his head and you're like,

I don't, you're immediately like, I don't like, he's too handsome. He's got this gun against it. Fuck him. And I don't even understand why these guys are all slightly, like they seem broken, but yet you're like, oh, how did they become broken? Yeah. Me,

That's why this all lends to a book and not a movie, but the book is also terrible. What happens is that you are introduced to all the guys, and then... Oh, by the way, I just want to say, when you introduce... There was one moment in Damien Lewis that, again, we're talking about wipes, where he says something bad to the fat patient. And by wipe, we mean an edit that goes from left to right. Like Star Wars style. Yes, Star Wars style, which is...

not something that is currently used as a way to edit. And not in a story that takes place on Earth. But they also did, I thought, like in addition to the wipes, they did like an SNL, like Frozen Caveman lawyer kind of pushing on Damian Lewis. Like the camera's like to the left and it's like whoop.

It goes across and pushes into his face. Can I also just say that we're struggling to piece it together in a movie, again, from the writing standpoint, where they specifically just say everything. They just flat out, there's no subtext. Almost every line is exposition. There's like a three-minute, and I'm going to play it later on, I think, a monologue that one of the characters does that is kind of talking to the audience, trying to sum up the entire movie to be like,

It's an hour and 20 minutes in, but let me try to help you out. How long is this show? Yeah. How much time do we have to do this? Somebody's going to have to do a podcast about this podcast just because they're going to be like, guys, I'm 15 minutes into the podcast. They have not yet started to talk about the second flashback. Because there are, within the first five minutes, it goes six months in the future and then 20 years in the past. Yeah.

And it jumps around through time and then, over an hour in, introduces Morgan Freeman and Tom Sizemore as equally as important characters. I don't want to get ahead of it.

Focus features in Indian Paintbrush present The Phoenician Scheme, an epic comedy adventure from director Wes Anderson, starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threpleton, Michael Cera, Tom Hanks, Scarlett Johansson, and Jeffrey Wright. Follow Zsa Zsa Korda as he races to survive assassinations, win back his daughter, and pull off the greatest scheme of his lifetime, The Phoenician Scheme, rated PG-13. In select theaters in New York and Los Angeles today, everywhere on June 6th.

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We meet Damian Lewis, who is... A teacher? A professor, yeah. A professor, a good guy professor. He's nice. Jason Lee seems like an alcoholic. Thomas Jane is... And Jason Lee is like...

the worst character in a movie most hateable he's full of jargon and catchphrases that are preposterous I was saying it was like watching Back to the Future 2 where they're trying to make words exist that they don't like you bro Joe fuck me Freddy bite my back

Criminettis. Yeah, something bananas, too. It's all, you know what, it's almost like they were like, I want this character to be a newsie from the 30s. Well, this is very, that is very Stephen King. Yeah. And that stuff that has taken, when you read a Stephen King book, he always has characters that talk in that kind of like, I don't know, almost like 50s, but rough talk. Yeah. Yeah.

And it works in his, for some reason, the tapestry that he weaves, you go, okay. You read the book and you're like, I accept this form of talking. Yes, well, this is how this character is defined. Well, let's take a listen to one of my favorite parts, the fuckeries and fuckaroos. Oh, boy. This, again, gives you a sense of this is the first time all of our guys are getting together in a cabin. We don't know why. And this is the kind of talking you're going to hear.

Met some lady at Bingo, went back to her place, turned into a pretty nice fuckery. - Supposed to a fuckeroe. - Obviously. I'll admit I've had perfectly good fuckeries turn into fuckeroes in a flash. - Try Viagra. - Viagra? I'm practically at full salute all day. You're remembering yourself in the fourth grade. - What, you having wood problems? - Haven't tried it, have you? - Hell no. - You won't believe it. You drop that little blue bomb, your heart is a Louisville slugger for 12 hours.

12 hours? Talking to you, Stremski. You don't have to need it to love it. So Jason Lee brought in Kevin Smith for the day, right? To do Punch-Up. Because that is like a clerk scene. Yeah, that is so crazy. Honestly, as I was watching this scene, though, I was immune to how ridiculous he sounded because I was like, that's nice of him to be the one to cook dinner. You know that thing where you get a vacation home with your friends and you're like, who's going to

Take this mantle. And I was like, whoa, he's got his own recipe. He's got two different hot sauces. Oh, my God. Way to step up to the plate, Beaver. His name is Beaver. Beaver. Beaver. That's his name. Yeah. I forgot about that. So we don't know why these guys are broken. We don't know why they're all in a cabin together. They come every, they've been coming for 20 years. Jason Lee puts physical notches in a cabin I have to assume they don't own that they just rent.

They get charged like 50 bucks every year. Every notch, and they're like, worth it. The thing that was crazy to me also was that these four dudes, in my opinion at this point, though some of them have more likable qualities, but they are treated so much like a unit. Like, they are treated so much like, we're going to invest in all four of these guys. We're going to show them as kids in this long bond that they've had. They're going to do this nice thing for a handicapped child. We're going to really like these dudes. And then we're surprised

supposed to know that Thomas Jane and Damian Lewis are more important. Yeah. And they also fall into that, like that white guys that look kind of similar. And especially with a blizzard going on and some of them are covering, I'm like, I'm like, I'm glad that you at least have a beard that changes length throughout the movie. And then when they would flash back other than the kid who is supposed to be, um, justified, um,

What's his name? Tim Olyphant. Tim Olyphant. Other than that kid, I couldn't tell who the kids are. Oh, no. And what's his name? Jason Lee's kids got glasses, too. Red hair. The other two were indistinguishable. I was like, wait, which is the kids? Yeah, sorry. But they are for a quartet of people who you're split. It is like Stand By Me. They're on an adventure. The kids version of it. They come across a handicapped kid. They save him from bullies.

Bullies who are trying to make him eat shit. Yes. And the bullies are holding the shit. I mean, it's a small detail, but it was a really perfectly formed shit. They're already being punished. You're punishing yourself. Yeah, by holding the shit in your hand. How do you not see this?

And then they get superpowers. Do they ever show – I kept on going, did I miss something? Like does Dudus just – I think it's supposed to be a reveal. It makes more sense in – again, not much more sense, but a little more sense in the book that he's the guy who's got magic powers and it rubs off on them just by being in his orbit. Oh.

They get these powers, but it's really because he's this... I don't want to spoil anything, but he's... Well, you can. You can. I mean, we can... Oh, no. You can spoil everything. Why not spoil it? You can, because it'll be worth it to, I think, at least understand where we're going. He's an alien. Yeah. Who's got... He's the...

Enemy of the evil aliens, presumably in deep space. So he's a good guy. But he's a good guy, and he has given them. Now, why he is under the guise of a mentally challenged child, wouldn't that be a very difficult life? Well, that I couldn't. And that I was really hoping you were going to explain.

Well, I'm going to... Oh, no, no, no, no. I think I can maybe help here and say that the original ending of the movie did not reveal Duditz to be an alien. Mm.

So that's interesting. But in the book it does. I can't, I don't recall. Oh, okay. So the original ending is, and I know we're skipping to the end here. We haven't even introduced that aliens are in here. We'll get to that. Oh, when there was an alien, when the alien turns into an alien. Yes. You know, when he, Damien Lewis turns around and there's a giant like nine foot tall gray. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Well, like, you know, so man, it's hard to like even imagine.

Because you have to set it, I think even to understand what we're talking about, you have to lay it all out. So they're in this vacation house. A man comes who's having some stomach problems. Yes. He's farting his brains out. Yes. And there's a lot of bad farts in this movie. There's a lot of like. Comical farts. Comical body horror. Yes. You know, like it's almost like funny David Cronenberg, which, by the way, is the type of movie I would love to see.

And he comes to their house and he's getting progressively sicker and his stomach is distended and weird. And they, you know, and he's getting sicker and they go to the, he has, he runs to the bathroom, they come home, they find like blood around the house and it's, he's in the bathroom. And basically he has shit out of,

This snake-like monster who opens up like a vagina to a certain extent. He is like both a dick and a vagina. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He is both. And it's got teeth, like teeth that run the length of its body almost. Yeah. It's crazy. And it came out of his butt. It came out of his butt. And that's how these aliens, I guess, it's like aliens. There's a bunch of shots where people, you see like their butts like blown open. Yeah. Because the guy falls off the toilet and you see like his asshole like blown open by this thing. Yeah. Yeah.

And so they trap this...

slug-like alien in the toilet. Okay, I want to talk about this scene for one hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They said this scene took days and days and days and days to shoot. Really? Really? Is it because he just kept being like, seriously, the toothpick? That's seriously what I'm doing? Yes, the toothpick. So they come home. They see this ultimate horror. The bathroom covered in blood. The man dead. His asshole blown out. They have this creature trapped in a toilet, and they're like,

you know, they're like, sit on the toilet, Jason Lee, and we'll trap him in there. And then I guess Thomas Jane or Damien. The homeland goes to get duct tape. He goes to get duct tape to figure it out, which I believe he calls friction tape. He does call friction tape. And I was like, oh, some sort of special tape. Okay. That makes more sense. And then when he finds it and it's duct tape, I was like, no. And I was wondering, is that because duct tape is like a brand name?

Oh. I think it is, but I think it is a Xerox Kleenex situation. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Then why say Frisian? I would say it's a British thing. Oh.

Like, I think that Damien Lewis is probably like, friction tape. Oh, interesting. And they've been on this scene for six days. Fuck it. Friction tape. So Jason Lee has one job, to sit on the toilet. He's not wrestling with the creatures. But he also has one defining characteristic. One defining character trait that sets him apart from the rest of the guys is that in every frame of this movie up until this one moment, he has a toothpick in his mouth. Mm-hmm.

And while they were first interacting with the alien, the thing that he drops are his toothpicks. So he's in a... Now, you know, I think we can all see, Curtis, you know, this is probably, as a writer, this is kind of the dilemma that you like to create. Save the toothpick. Yeah, you have a character who needs his toothpicks, but there's an alien. This is the baby carriage about to go down the stairs. It's, you know, this is really good stuff. And in the...

book, it still doesn't make sense. I think he's either a former alcoholic or drug addict. I can't remember now. But the toothpicks are like his way of curbing that and the stress or whatever. You definitely get, oh, this is his coping and he's in an extremely stressful situation. There's a blown out butthole man staring at him and he wants his toothpick. There's also 20 toothpicks, but only two didn't fall in the dead man's blood. And it's still like, in grabbing this, you're

definitely going to brush the blood. It's also a toothpick that's on the floor of a bathroom. Yes. Never mind a bathroom where a man has just died. Yeah. And also, he's in this bathroom arguably for two minutes. Like, he couldn't curve. Like, he couldn't be like. There's a monster in the toilet. Like, there's real fear. There's stakes. Yes. The toilet is like a bucking bronco of a slug man trying to come out and

eat his butthole. And he's like, gotta munch on a toothpick. And so he's like literally taking his ass off the toilet to reach the toothpick to sit on the toilet. But...

This is where everything is wrong. And the tone, the tone is, is every single note is wrong. And they tried to make it, the whole thing funny. Yeah. These guys are laughing through all of this. Oh, yes. Yes. Damien Lewis, in that scene, it's like a comedy scene you'd see in an improv show where someone's like, gotta keep that alien in the toilet. Damien Lewis runs. It's like dangerous. Yeah. And then he comes back and he goes, hang in there, buddy. And like squeaking a, like a, a,

A horn. A bike horn. He's like, ah, Jonesy, ah, Jonesy. Yeah. And the guys are getting the car wreck. Thomas Jane and Oliphant get in a car wreck. They pull each other out. They're laughing. Yes. Oh, man. They flipped a car like eight times. Yeah. And then they meet a woman who farts. It is like...

You combine two movies, but neither movie knew that they were in each other's movie. Yeah. So, like, those guys were reacting like a lighter... It's even a lighter Big Chill because they're not even addressing... It's not like, oh, one of our friends died or anything. It's like a horror movie or whatever with all this stuff. But there is scenes that are Big Chill-like, like the one you just played where Jason Lee is cooking for everybody and they're all in the kitchen and he's like, got blown last night. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah.

The dinner scene where you're supposed to get to know these guys, where they're all sitting around just like chatting. This is where you get to like these dudes or get to know them. And they're just awful. They just – every one of them is – each one is less likable than the last at that meal. And you're so confused by it because also you meet these characters in these kind of extreme moments in the beginning. Again, who was – again, I'm getting confused between Damian Lewis and Thomas Jane. Damian Lewis crosses the street, right? Yes. Yes.

So he gets hit by a car. He looks like he's committing suicide because the cars are racing down the street and he just walks in the middle of it. He gets hit and he's like, oh, that was six months ago I got hit by that car.

But it's neither here nor there. It's not like, oh, this is a celebration that you're finally healed. And he was warned. And that's the thing. They know they're psychic. They know that you have psychic connection with one another. One of them, Jason Beaver, calls him. Jason Beaver. Jason Beaver. Be careful. And goes, be careful. Like, I don't know what's going to happen, but something's going to happen. Yeah, be careful. And he goes, why? And he goes, I don't know. Yeah.

But wouldn't it have made even more sense if, like, he was on the corner and a car just hit it, like, jumped the curb and hit it? Like, he looked, again, as an audience member, I'm confused. Like, is he suicidal? Like, we have two suicidal ones now and a drunk one. But then there appears at the end to be, like, some sort of reason why it happened to him. Right. They're like, because that makes him immune. He had to die? Yeah. Because he said he saw Duditz. So he's like, Duditz was calling me, and I got—

I got hit and then they... You know, when he's dying, they're like, he's dead, he's dead. He sees Duditz again as he's in the ambulance. There's a lot of POV shots. Yes. Oh, yeah. And then he said... And then...

Thomas Jane mentions later, I think he's immune because I think he died. But immune to what? Immune to the alien sharing his body. Yeah, but that's not the way anyone has died. Everyone dies from a butt explosion. So no one has died yet from sharing their body with Mr. Gray. So we don't know that that's a death-causing situation. But the other thing is, Mr. Gray...

Mr. Gray the giant alien who has a British accent Mr. Gay is how Duditz pronounces it it's very uncomfortable yes well Duditz does a lot of uncomfortable things in this movie well I think one of my favorite parts of the movie a part where I wish there was sort of like

like, audience applause is when Donnie Wahlberg comes down the stairs as the adult Duditz. The reveal of Donnie Wahlberg. Oh, see, for me, for me, that reveal... For me, that reveal came when the credits rolled and I was like, Donnie Wahlberg? Oh, the fun credits where we relive the fun dinner they had? Oh, my God. The... We should get... We'll get to the credits because the credits...

It needs to be unpacked. It's almost like a rap version of the song. I was expecting a Ninja Turtles rap. Mr. Gray, he saved the day. Nope, that was done. It's in a regular way. It's like LL Cool J from Deep Blue Sea. Let's just play it for a second because it is what we just talked about. This is the final line of the movie into the credits. This is a movie where we've just watched

aliens and people dying and it's a serious movie and uh it's this one right here they're my friends we're all best friends here's the duddits dreamcatcher

It is... Why is the movie called Dreamcatcher? Well, that brings up a great point. Why is there a dreamcatcher? What is that part of it? Well, okay, when we see the flashback where we see the boys either, like, if it was a process of getting powers and now this is, like, the moment where they finally fully realize their powers and they save another girl...

That they say, let's do the dream catcher, where they all put their hand on Duditz's shoulder to mirror the dream catcher they made for Duditz in arts and crafts. And then that's still nothing. I mean, I assume it means like that sort of position is how they felt their powers is like, well, we used to have to touch Duditz to get the powers. Now he's put it in us that we can. This is me taking like leaps.

and leaves. Guys, I have brought some Oxycontin. We're going to do it now. We're going to fucking break this. Oh, it's up. It's a dream catcher. Catch dreams. We're going to go away for a couple minutes. We're going to take these drugs and when we come back, we're really going to get this movie. We're going to understand. We're going to start over again. Can you imagine if we were like, how

Did we not get it? Okay, here it is. This is the movie. Okay, really? Okay. So, done. It's me. You gotta understand, for me, at this time, I'm a Stephen King mega fan, super fan, and I'm most particularly a fan of the Dark Tower series. I was, since childhood, I've been reading those books.

that spanned his entire career. They're making movies out of it and all this stuff. But so I was... I would read anything. And I was a huge apologist for anything Stephen King. I'd be like, I don't care because I love him. He's been my whole childhood and adult life. I've loved his books. And it was just crushing and crippling to read...

It was, it made no sense. And the fact that it went on for 600 plus pages. Oh my God. Yeah. It just wouldn't end when it did. I feel like it was like his therapy to get out of the hospital. It's sort of like his journal in the hospital and then release it. Yes. Like it just. Yes. And he's not disavowed it, but he's like, it's terrible. It's just a terrible book. It's well, I guess there's so many things that don't make sense. And one thing too, that we, I haven't even talked about, but I feel like I,

I assumed was that Duditz was long dead until they reveal that he is not. Oh yeah. Like there's, there is a remembrance of him in this time that,

And they're like, oh. They go like, just a dud-it. Yeah, the weekend, the first, the night where he gets hit by the car and Thomas Jane almost casually kills himself, he says, I think we should go see Dud-its this weekend. Oh, okay. But I was also like, are they talking about his grave? That's what I kind of felt like. And also, he's an alien but can still get earthly leukemia? Or is that not really leukemia? Or is he an alien in the same way that Mr. Gray is an alien in Jonesy's body? Oh.

Like, is he just in the body of a boy? I don't think so. No? Because who's that woman? Well, the alien jumps out of Jonesy and Jonesy's still there. You're right. Dada turns into an alien and there's no Dada's back. So who's the woman? An

An adoptive mother. Who's that mother? Did she get, like, did she Superman him? Like, find him in a field? Yeah, maybe. Because she's like... I think she's a caregiver, right? Oh, I'm sorry, audience. An enormous spaceship lands on Earth in this movie. Crash lands in Maine. An enormous spaceship lands...

full of aliens, crash lands in this movie. But we're only going to spend like 10 minutes on it, and it's like an hour and 40 in. Yes. I kept on writing, when does this movie start? It really starts about 30 minutes in. It keeps starting. Yes. Different versions of the movie keep beginning every 20 to 30 minutes. We have not gotten to Tom Sizemore. Oh my gosh. Sizemore has a whole journey. John Wayne's gun. With a tracking device. With a tracking device.

He's going to stand in an open snowy field and just shoot a helicopter. Oh, my gosh. The mowing down of the aliens. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. The genocide of the aliens. The massacre of aliens. Morgan Freeman's eyebrows, which were really amazing. Morgan Freeman's eyebrows were out of control. Why are the aliens standing in a field sending second message? There's no virus. Yeah. That's not going to work. And they're just waving. We're just waving. There's no virus. Don't hurt us.

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Going back to your point in the beginning, you're saying, well, Duditz trained these four boys to help prevent the alien invasion. Which is now happening as they are adults. But I would argue that's been happening for a while because Morgan Freeman says I spent 25 years chasing this thing all around the world. Can't we assume that the next arrival...

of aliens will neither have Morgan Freeman nor the four boys to combat it. Well, I think he says in the flashback where they go to find the girl in the drain, which is just a normal sentence at this point. Drain girl? Drain girl, I have to breeze by. But D.

Oh, I also didn't like that her name was Josie. Yes, and there's Jonesy. And there's Jonesy, because Duditz couldn't say either. I couldn't understand what he was talking about. But they realized looking back that he said Mr. Gay, meaning Mr. Gray. So my thought is that these aliens have been here for 25 years, going back to when Duditz came, and there have been small skirmishes that the secret blue body army, blue boys, has to keep under wraps.

but that there is a bad alien amongst this race of otherwise pretty peaceful aliens named Mr. Gray who wants to start the war. That's what Duditz says is Mr. Gray wants a war. I think they could even be from the same race and that crash landing, they are nice women and children who are like... No, I don't think they are. Because they turn... Oh, that's right. And they make it a virus. But Duditz looks like the same alien that... No, he looks different. He's different. He's a different color and he's a little nicer. But he also has a weird sharp tail. Yeah, I think they must

be like neighbors. They must be like of a similar... And now can we get to Damien Lewis' Stewie from Family Guy impression? Oh my God. Which is funny because he is British. And he's doing a terrible... So once Mr. Grey, the alien, once the nine foot alien, disapparates into...

Damian Lewis. Yes. Damian Lewis. By the way, grace evaporates. Thanks. Damian Lewis. Damian Lewis becomes, this is the part of the movie that was the most confounding to me. Yes.

This becomes a movie in which his character is at war with himself, wherein who is controlling Jonesy's body? It becomes the mask. Yes. And Damien, yes, exactly. God, I wish they'd just become the mask and there had been a big Mambo number. And they have two-sided conversations where Mr. Gray is speaking in a hyperbolic British accent. Who? Yes. And then when Jonesy is speaking, nobody's moving, like he's not moving his mouth and he looks stoic.

Also, Damian Lewis is trapped in his quote-unquote memory house. Warehouse, memory warehouse. Memory warehouse inside his own mind, watching all the events of the movie happen out a window. Yes. A window that he looked in as a child. That part I could not make heads or tails of. And then also he's having interactions with Mr. Gray, the slug, inside his memory bank.

And the memory vault is so weird, but let's take a listen to the dueling voices when they're kind of talking to each other. Here we go. What was that, Mr. Jones? What did we just pass on the road there? Are you speaking to me? Yes, I am, Mr. Jones. Or is it Jonesy? That's what your friends call you, isn't it? Let's be friends. Mr. Bond. Why are you letting me live? I'm borrowing you. We're going to take a little journey. Fuck you.

Ugh, oh.

Who told you about me? So that you get an idea. Okay. Don't talk about the Germans. Don't talk about the war. I mean, he sounds like fucking Fawlty Towers. It does. Holy shit. Apparently he was doing an impression of Malcolm McDowell. That was his actor's choice. Amazing. Which is odd, though, because he's British. Yeah. You wouldn't have to put it on. But why does the alien want to be British?

Everyone would want to be British if they came here. They'd be like, what earthly action should I adopt? Oh, the one with the most authority. Yes.

Well, yeah, so that's going on the entire movie. I'm sorry, Paul. No, it's not going on the entire movie. You're right. Because it doesn't start for at least an hour. Yeah. So the next hour and a half is when it takes place. Right, and so they're having this— It just feels like the entire movie because it's its own movie. It's when Timothy Oliphant has been kidnapped by—

Jonesy alien. Oh, after almost having his dick get bitten off. Yes, by another ass worm. By another ass worm, or shit weasel they call him. Oh, shit weasel, thank you. And they're on that snowmobile. Shit weasel is amazing. Yes. That's me. And then finally Timmy the Elephant's had enough of helping this alien, and he tells Mr. Gay to bite his bag. He goes, bite my bag. And then Jonesy slash Mr. Gay says...

I think I will bite your bag and everything else on you. And he turns around and eats him. Yeah, he becomes like a big giant mouth, teeth mouth. But the fact that this interstellar alien from a highly advanced civilization that's come across the cosmos is like, you know what? I will bite your bag. I also love the idea that...

The idea of the memory vault is so interesting. It kind of reminds me a little bit of there's a great Sherlock where, you know, like a guy. Well, memory palaces are a thing. You know, like that's like a, I understand what they're referencing, but to make it an actual place that he is trapped within. Yes. Is complete insanity. And that he's having like a little chase scene in there. Yes. Where he's like, oh.

Oh, Mr. Gray is like busy. I don't know how Mr. Gray is busy, but he's like running around collecting files to then bring into his secret office, which for whatever reason, Mr. Gray can't access, but it's just an office. Oh, they explain all of that at dinner. Yeah. He's like, well, they're like, well, what do you do about the stuff you don't want to forget about? He's like, I keep that in my secret office. That's where my Blue Bayou lyrics are. I had to make room. But that's also the scene where they say, I mean, it's just,

It's just Beaver again and again going, I don't remember the warehouse. What's the mind warehouse? Like, come on, you know the mind warehouse. No, I don't. Remind me. You know it, Beaver. You know what it is. No, I don't. Explain it. Come on, Beaver. You know it. It's insane. It goes on forever. It's talking to the audience, which this movie, I think,

does a lot. Oh my God. Can you please, like, we need help. You gotta explain it. And which goes into when Jason Lee is dying. Again, I just, there's so many great little clips. Jason Lee died

Oh, sorry, Timothy Olyphant when he's dying. Oh, okay, go ahead. Go ahead with Jason Lee, though. Jason Lee, at one point, Jason Lee and Damian Lewis are standing outside their cabin and a helicopter is flying above them. Mm-hmm.

Jason Lee keeps a toothpick in his mouth while he's trying to shout words at a helicopter. So he's trying to both bite down on the toothpick and say his lines of dialogue. Take the toothpick out of your fucking mouth.

He's got to... We got to know. We got to know that he'll do anything for that toothache. And they also are barely raising their voices and are trying to talk to people in a helicopter. Like, hey, down here. And the people are like, just waving at... It's...

Nonsense. Well, it also does my favorite dumb thing. We talk about this in stealth as well, where people in helicopters look out the window to talk to people as if, like, they're in a conversation. They're in a conversation together, which is, like, always the dumbest thing. It's like, no one's like, hey, I'm looking at your, like, there's no reason to make eye contact when in dueling helicopters. Oh, how about this? Yes. Mm-hmm.

This blew my mind. So Tom Jane and just a Tim Olyphant are in a car accident because they find also a gassy person. And Tom Jane's like, okay, I'm going to go get help. Tim Olyphant, you stay here. Tim Olyphant gets drunk with the gassy woman, okay? Very drunk. And a shit weasel comes out of that gassy woman, blah, blah, blah. But before that, Tim Olyphant just apropos of nothing goes, you know what I think?

I think my friend Duditz is an alien. This is amazing. I was like, whoa, wait a minute. He explains the whole plot of the movie ridiculously. This is amazing. Listen to all the exposition. Seriously, folks, there is one issue I'd like to bring up just in case I should, you know, kick the bucket out here, turn into a goddamn pizzicle. Nailed it. Not that I think that's inevitable.

I'm sure Henry or Jonesy or Beaver will be coming to get us soon. They're my friends. We're all best friends. I'll be very candid with you about this. So please, don't get freaked out or think that I'm some kind of weirdo who you shouldn't meet for the best fried clams in Maine. Just some innocent fried clams at the West Wharf. You see the four of us? We're best friends. We all have this other friend by the name of Dunnett.

Oh my god. This is crazy! One day, a long time ago, he gave us all this kind of gift. This ability to know things. This is in the movie. I love the composer's sting. Mind to mind, do you see what I'm getting at? I think maybe our friend Duds is not from this planet. What? I think Duds is from somewhere else. And he came here...

Oh, so that's not shit. *laughs*

That happens. Oh my gosh. When you just hear that, that's over an hour into the movie. And it's very theater-like. It's sort of like, let me tell you. It's a soliloquy with the slim veil of, no, he's talking to this passed out woman who's dead. But he doesn't maybe realize she's dead. But it was also like, it sounded like they were like, you know, just in case the audience is lost, will you improvise a monologue here, Tim? And here are the bullet points. And if you could repeat that you're

friends as many times as possible. Best friends. Make sure you say best friends. Because we like don't know if that dinner scene is going to get us all we need. It smells like a reshoot. It's like we can get him out there. We'll put the snow. Just explain the plot here because we're finding people really are checking out. Also, I really couldn't believe that I didn't find Oliphant handsome in this movie. It was blowing my mind. I was like...

How is he? What's happening? His hair's just a little bit down and I'm like no longer finding this guy super attractive like he normally always is. Well, he also is a creep. Yeah. Now he uses his psychic powers to like hit on this woman and try to get her to have fried clams with him. Oh good, it was just my subconscious being like, you shouldn't be attracted to this guy. No, yeah, that's like your internal. Yeah, like red flag. Red flag, red flag. This guy's a danger. I mean, he.

He's an irreprehensible character. I think he's sort of flirting with this woman at one point, too, or pretending they're on a date or something. Right, the dead woman with the thing out of her ass. Yeah, he's not a likable figure. Yeah, I guess maybe he tried to ugly himself up because he needed to be a guy that people wouldn't be interested in. We got Thomas Jane. We got the handsome quotient down. Yeah. Who else do we got here? Daniel is pretty handsome. Let's give him a beard. All fun. Good looking guy.

Let's just make him a creep. Yeah, he's an alcoholic creep. And then Jason Lee, toothpicks. Toothpicks. Put them nerdy Buddy Holly glasses on him too while you're at it. Oh my gosh. I also loved that whenever they would flash back to the kids, when they were kids, and even when they would meet with, like when they come upon duddits and the bullies are there, blah, blah, blah.

Almost every single kid is given a ball or a Frisbee or a piece of sports equipment to hold. A paddle with a ball at the end. It's as if when you hung out with your friends, you're like, oh, you bring a basketball, you bring a football, I'll bring a Frisbee. It is so funny. Those flashbacks really did have the quality of a Stephen King made for TV movie from the 80s. Yes. They looked like it or The Stand or something where you're like this.

This is terrible. And that's what it felt. It felt like cheap like that. It didn't feel like there's any. Because the rest of the movie is actually relatively beautifully shot. Yeah. The look of things is relatively nice. It's expensive. It's lovely. Like especially the main stuff, like all those big, like beautiful kind of like snowy forests of Maine. It looks gorgeous. And it's almost constantly snowing, which is like pretty visually cool. Yeah. I can't believe it's like.

Always snow. Two things. One, I think that the DP is an Academy Award winning director of photography. Pretty sure. I believe it. And then two, how about those animals? Yeah. Running. I forgot about the animals running. All the practical animals running away. It was like a Warner Brothers, like an old, like what do you, like a Bugs Bunny or something. All the animals were like repeating. It was. It was. They have, they have red stuff on them. They have,

signs of the virus. And we know that animals can have shit weasels because a poor German shepherd suffers this fate. He makes them eat it. But Morgan Freeman is obsessed with the idea of a hitchhiker. Well, there was a whole woodland parade that could hitchhike out of this area. Like there are hundreds

of deer carrying this virus. Why not crash 20 miles in, like, it's right outside of Boston. The whole movie is about these aliens getting- They can also turn into mist and fly away. Why don't they just run? Yes. Just get to Boston. Why are the aliens standing outside of their ship waving? Why not just immediately, okay, you crashed, great, move, let's go. Yeah, go. Let's red dust ourselves. Exactly, let's red dust as fast as we can.

By the way, Curtis, you are right. The guy, the cinematographer, or the DP was the guy who did Mad Max Fury Road. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Harry Potter and like Rain Man and what else. Yeah. It looks, I mean, again, top of the ticket. Oh, no. If you saw, if somebody was like, oh, do you want to meet Lawrence Kasdan on this movie William Goldman wrote about? Yeah, fuck yeah, I'll do it. That's what Damien Lewis said in an interview. Stephen King book. He said it. He was like, hey.

When he's like, when Lawrence Kasdan hands you a script that William Goldman has written from a Stephen King novel, like you go, yeah, it's an easy answer. I kept thinking about them like calling their moms and being like, oh my gosh, I'm about to be in the best thing of my career. It's all happening. And then just the sadness of like, oh boy. I mean, midway through they must have, I mean, but you read that. I guess they were all relatively lesser known then. Yes. This is before everybody's big breaks. Was Oliphant on Deadwood yet? I don't even know. He'd done Go.

I think it's 2003, so that's pretty early for all these guys. Yeah, yeah. But there's so many weird things. And I imagine also if you're adapting that book, you must go like, I don't know if this is a good book, though, because it is –

I mean, the book is, you know, relatively given like an average of a C plus rating, which is, so it's not like the best Stephen King book that you're adapting. And then also there's like weird little things. This is a detail I thought was interesting too, that Morgan Freeman's character in the book is called Colonel Kurtz in a reference to Apocalypse Now. But in the movie, they were like, no, no, we don't want, like that's even. They named him Colonel Curtis in the movie. Yeah.

which I appreciated, but still ridiculous. It's just a weird thing. And to talk about this ending, still haven't talked about Sizemore. Oh my gosh. We gotta get into Sizemore. And the finger shooting off. Oh yeah. There's a lot of finger and dick shooting. The eyebrows on Morgan Freeman are like prosthetic eyebrows. There's a part where Timothy Olyphant, the shit weasel, grabs onto his dick and then he continues to

kind of talk and interact. I'm like, that guy, your dick is bitten off and he is not acting like he's... He didn't get it. He says he tried to bite my dick off. Oh, okay, so it just got in the air. Yeah. And then he said, I always thought my ex-wife would do that. Yeah. He throws out a fucking... An ex-wife zinger. Yeah. Catskills comic. There's so many lines that are masquerading as quips in this movie. I mean, it's like old guys...

Middle-aged guys who wrote and made this movie that should have been made by young, aggressive filmmakers. Do you guys think that...

William Goldman and Lawrence Kasdan were just ahead of their time and that this is an allegory for the refugee crisis where refugees are crashing ships into our shores and they are trying to spread their, their virus, their virus, the virus of terrorism. MAGA. MAGA. Make America great again, guys. That's the H.P. Lovecraft thing and Stephen King is really influenced by it. H.P. Lovecraft wrote all these Cthulhu stories that were very, um,

They weren't really that big in their own time, but all these guys, King and all these guys were super influenced. He was an insane racist and xenophobe. Really? Oh, yeah. Lovecraft? Horrible racist and xenophobe. And all his books, that's what they're about. Really? It's all things coming out of the ocean to fuck the women and take from the erudite professors and steal for the white people and take their stuff. And from outer space, it's all references to boats and planes coming to America. Oh, wow.

And always, there's always a section in some H.P. Lovecraft story where they meet some swarthy Middle Eastern weird cultist and it's dangerous. All right, I'll audition. Where are we going with it? So to talk about the end of the book, the end of the book, the end of the movie. So the end of the book...

So they get Duditz at a certain point. Duditz confronts the alien. They have an alien fight. And then, you know, Duditz dies. The alien fight is so anticlimactic. When Duditz turns into an alien, he's an alien for like 15 seconds. They stab each other with their tails. A shroud appears over them and they die. Well, I think because it's all a reshoot. Because, all right, so in the book, this is what happens in the

book, it seems like, well, I know, in the book, Henry and Duditz use their powers to smother Mr. Gray with a pillow. With a pillow? Yes.

Wow, I don't remember that at all. Inside Jonesy's mind. What? How did they get in his mind? I don't know. I think you can pull them in, can't you? Oh my gosh. So that's the end of the book. See, we're talking about anticlimactic. A pillow? Yeah, kills the alien? Now, in the original version of the movie... And it takes two of them to push a pillow onto his face? And in the movie, instead of turning into an alien, Duditz just does that thing with his finger where the swirly thing happens.

And then the air gets all swirly, and then it turns into a beam of light that shoots the alien back into a wall, and it explodes. And then Duditz shouts, I Duditz, and he falls down dead. Yeah. And then they all go visit his gravesite, and they sing the Blue Bayou song at his gravesite, which I do have a clip of. This is the original ending? This is the original ending. That's how it should have ended. Yes, for sure. And his gravestone has the Blue Bayou lyrics on it, which...

Don't seem to connect with Duditz at all. It seems like that was their thing. It wasn't like Duditz sang Blue Bayou. No, they sang it to him to calm him down when they were trying to make him eat shit. Oh, right. Like I said, in the book, there's this, at this climactic moment, there's this big major reference to it with, yeah, it says Pennywise lives and there's actually a statue and there's a little inscription from the kids from Iberia.

saying Bev and all the kids from it and saying the Losers Club for all the lost out there and it's a whole huge it reference that I think there should be a policy that you don't reference better things that you've written in your it just reminds people how shitty the thing that you're reading is or it's just like a coda to remind them that they have other work like but remember

Remember this. Don't be too mad. Available at Amazon.com. But it's also like I feel like those are the nuggets that you throw in so people buy the books. Like, hey, you know, they have a whole thing about Pennywise. That's right. Oh, shit. It's like a sequel. It got me to see the movie. Right. I was like, oh, maybe there'll be some It stuff in this movie. Because it's like it just is enough to be like, oh, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but yeah, without that. Obviously –

We have a lot of opinions about this movie. I want to take a moment to hear some second opinions. Also, before we get into that, I want to remind you that Blake Harris is on the case. He has been doing these amazing interviews with people from Stealth all the way back to Sleepaway Camp. And he hopefully will get in touch with somebody from Dreamcatcher. And everyone's kind of talking. So maybe we'll see. Even Lawrence Kasdan was like, this movie put me in jail for a long time. William Goldman didn't write another movie until like a year and a half ago.

So crazy. Good Will Hunting, right? He had a movie with Tom Hanks that he couldn't get made. Really? Yeah. He's like, I had everything ready. He goes, a novel that was written by Richard Russo, you know, the guy who wrote Nobody's Fool. He's like, we were all ready to go. And I'm like, nah. The movie lost, you know, over like $40 million. Oh, I would assume so. This is bananas. So definitely check out our mini episode where Blake will have somebody there and also on Slash Film. But now let's get into some Second Opinions. Second Opinions! Second Opinions!

From top to bottom, crazy movies are fun. They're not your first, but they're gonna be your second. From the depths of Amazon they come. Second Opinions for everyone. Second Opinions!

These are second opinions called from Amazon five-star reviews. These are all five-star reviews of Dreamcatcher. There's so many good ones here. Okay, let's start here from Mike. He writes, this isn't the book.

Get over it already. Why are you making comparisons? Okay. It's a small group of people's interpretation of the story that they read. Okay. If everything was meant to be taken verbatim, then I imagine Stephen King would have done it himself.

Do yourselves a favor. Put your expectations in the trash. You'll have more fun in life. Five stars. You'll have more fun. Put your expectations in the trash. Sign Donald Trump. If you expect trash, you're going to get trash. I'm going to put that on a pillow. Put your expectations in the trash. Oh, my God. This is from Jonah Fight.

I like to ski, so having this movie done in the snow and having it involve aliens totally sold me. I hope those worm monsters don't come to Pittsburgh. I'd squash them. Five stars. Oh, my God. I like to ski. Just like, no. His reviews also double as, like, slight singles ads. Check me out if you also love skiing and live in the Pittsburgh area. Ha, ha, ha.

Right, look out. If you act wrong, I'll squash you. This is one that I like, too. It's just simple from Doc.

I think he's actually reviewing the book. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. How does a man have elements of such a book floating around in his brain? Oxycontin, Oxycontin. Five stars. Just the best that a man can create. Five stars. And then this one I like because it goes on a journey. By Doppelganger. There's just a cozy feeling to it.

Stephen King style, humor mixed with gore. It's a great movie. And I even like the story. I mean, okay, it's not great, great, but it's really good. Especially when you have to stay inside if you get the flu or you have a broken leg. What? Hit by a car. Regardless, it's definitely worth a look. I mean, look, I've never met anyone who hated it. And if you don't love it...

you'll probably just be glad that you saw it. And then you'll move on to your next scary or funny Sunday rainy day movie. But again, this is one of my favorite movies. And everyone's got a few of those. So I know you'll understand. Five stars. Oh, my goodness. That sounds like Timothy Olyphant's Drunk... Hey, guys. Seriously, folks. Listen, we're all friends, so we have to be best friends and understand that sometimes movies might not be for you.

But sometimes they are when your best friend's and your friend's an alien, and you need to stay in on a rainy day. That's just me. Sorry. I hope you understand. I gotta say, look, I mean...

I got it. Like Lawrence fucking Kasdan. Yeah, man. He wrote Emperor Strikes Back. Yes. He's amazing. And I think he even said it. Did he write Return of the Jedi? Raiders. Return of the Jedi, The Bodyguard, Force Awakens. In an interview I read, he said he wrote Return of the Jedi as a favor to George Lucas because he didn't want to do any more Star Wars. He was like, I did it. And half the stuff that was in Temple of Doom, he wrote.

He wrote that and they just moved it into Temple of Doom. He's like, you know, he's incredible. Oh, yeah. I mean, look, Big Chill, Silverado, Accidental Tourist, Grand Canyon, Wyatt or Mumford. Like, he's written like a bunch of stuff. And William Goldman, I mean, all the President's Men and Marathon Man. But I can recommend to your audience, Paul. Yeah, please. If you want to see another William Goldman stab at horror. Uh-huh.

It's available, I think, on Amazon Prime, but if not, it's on Shudder or something. It's a movie based off one of his own books called Magic, starring a young Anthony Hopkins. Oh, I know this movie. With a ventriloquist dummy. And it's Anthony Hopkins and a ventriloquist dummy. I won't say anything more than that, but it's a thriller horror written by William Goldman based on a William Goldman book. Oh, I got a magic. I highly, highly recommend that. It has this very Jonesy Mr. Great quality to it. Oh, I'm very excited about that. I want to see that movie.

Final Amazon review here. This is my favorite one, all in caps. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, tell me, honestly, you're in a secluded cabin in the woods and you look out the window and you suddenly see every single animal in the forest running in horror the other way? You're not scared? Whatever. You guys all smoke too much crack. This movie rocked. Five stars. Wait, what? What?

And those animals weren't even running in horror. They were just trotting. They were trotting. Oh, my God. And it was very cute, that scene. Yeah, it was a cute moment. It was a very Bambi moment. Yeah, there's like a family of bunnies. Yeah, there's bunnies. There was like a bunny family. Oh, my God. This movie, I also wanted to share with you the tagline of this movie. Put your expectations in the trash. Put your expectations in the trash.

These are the ones that, because it goes, four friends hung a dream catcher in their cabin. It's about to catch something. It cannot stop. That is not anything to do with this plot. Nope. The dream catcher is irrelevant. Yes. Yeah. Entirely irrelevant. It does technically catch the virus. Like the virus starts growing over it. Okay. It burns up. Yeah. And so it can't stop virus or fire. Yeah.

I know that his wife convinced him to change the title, Stephen King's wife. Yes, from Cancer. Cancer to Dreamcatcher. So that might have just been like, oh, fuck, now I've got to weave a Dreamcatcher into this thing. Yeah, like... You know, now I've got to go back. So... Yeah, you're right, because it doesn't feel... No, it's a purpose. I mean, again, there are a lot... And I think when Stephen King fails, and you would probably be able to speak to this more than I could, Curtis, but when he fails, it's only because he's put too many ideas into something. Sure. Because there are a lot of...

singularly good ideas in this. Like the idea of that gestating alien that comes out of your ass. That's like, that's like, like there are moments like in a cabin, very thing like can take over your body, but it just, then I caught him slack. He had been hit by a fucking car. He almost died. He wrote the stream of conscious. I completely cut him sack. Of course. Cause whatever he's fucking great, but it was all the ways and Stephen King can be bad. Um,

Like the way that the beaver character talks, that's sort of slangy, that doesn't exist anywhere. A magical...

Kids stuff. Challenged, but like either mentally challenged or he'll go to the well often with like people who are disenfranchised in society, marginalized in society. They're always magical. And he comes from a generation like the baby boomers where that is like obviously we make fun of it now. There's like the magical Negro and the magical this. He's from that generation of guys. So it's every bad habit and cliche of that generation of guys thrown into a science fiction movie. But...

And again, I'll cut Stephen King the slack because he wrote it injured on Oxycontin. I won't cut any of these other dildos any slack for reading that book and being like, oh, yeah. Like, why can't it just be relegated to the trash heap of like, that's Stephen King's worst book. Oh, it's a bummer. It's his worst book. But everybody was like, nope, we got to make an $80 million movie out of this. Or why don't you go, you know what? This Stephen King book is a little messed up.

How can we cut out the stuff and streamline it? No, no, everyone's better. That's the other problem too, is that he tried to be too close to the material of the book. Whereas like, you know, Stanley Kubrick's like, Oh, this is a, whatever. I'll take the names of the characters in a hotel of ghosts and I'm going to make an awesome, incredible movie. Yeah.

That Stephen King hates. That Stephen King hates, yeah. He likes the Stephen Webber version, right? Every person probably just picked their favorite major plot that there are like six of in this movie and insisted that their favorite was in, and then that's how the movie was exactly the same. All right, well, obviously this is the time where we – I don't know where you all fall on this, but we'll say – would you recommend – knowing that we're watching movies –

that are, you know, they're bad good, you know, or good bad. Would you recommend this to someone to see? I'll start and say, I do. I was thoroughly entertained and we didn't even touch on bigger things. Yeah, we barely touched. Like, here's what I'll say. I really, when the movie started to focus more and more on Morgan Freeman and Tom Sizemore and the army and all that, I lost steam pretty hard.

Up until then, great. Loved it. Yes. I'm so sorry. Did you want to go? No, no, no. Go for it. I've seen it three times. So, yes, I would absolutely recommend it. If for nothing else, just the Jonesy, Mr. Gray mask.

That stuff was so funny to me and jarring. That alone is worth the price of admission, and the animals running also really sold. Yeah, I think if you're in a snowy cabin and you have the flu, why not pop this one? Or if you've broken your leg. Or like...

If you broke your leg, I don't know. You guys understand. There are worse movies. Don't be too mad. I've never heard of anybody say they hated it. Yeah, certainly no. Even if you watch it and you don't love it. But it is your favorite movie. Well, and everyone's got a couple of those. Yeah, I think there's enough redemptive, ridiculous fun in this. I mean, just the fart stuff alone. I'm so incredulous that that was in this movie. Oh, it's crazy.

Yeah. Because there'll be whole... It's comical farts. It's like... Yes, yes. It's like Wet Hot American Summer style farts. And then the guy leaves and they're like, whoo, opening windows. Like, oh boy, like cut to like laugh track. It was like just insane. I would love a cut of this movie like Curtis did, like where it is like laugh track and applause breaks like a sitcom style thing. And like...

Did Lawrence Kasdan write anything else between this and The Force Awakens? I don't even know. I think he wrote that movie, I believe, like Sweet... I call it like a... Not an older person movie, but it is an older person movie. It was like Sweetest Kiss or something like that. Well, you can do that research yourself. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. But...

But if you have an opinion on this movie, we'd love to hear it. You can call us at 619-Paul-Asked. That's P-A-U-L-A-S-K, 619-Paul-Asked. Are you still taking calls at 619-Paul-Asked? That's a different line for a different show. But yeah, I am taking it. But this is more for the podcast and Dreamcatcher. Or you can leave a comment on the Earwolf podcast.

But now let's talk to our amazing guest. Jess, you have a brand new show on ABC Digital. Talk to us about this show. Yeah, it's called Serious Music. You can watch it on ABC.com for free. Yeah, if you've got the ABC app. But you can just watch it for free. And it's about me and my writing partner, Zach Reno, playing versions of ourselves where we're two comedians who write songs in like a Justin Bieber type way.

Zach thinks one of our songs is real and hires us to be songwriters. So then we, like, are undercover trying to understand the music industry and make him a less shitty person. That's awesome. I'm very excited. See, and you and Zach are amazing, and your songs are great. And can people find them online, too? Yeah, you can, like, find the Zach and the Jess on YouTube and see some of our vids online.

Some classic vids. Some classic vids. We'll check those out. Watching those vids. Yeah, just watch those vids. Curtis, do you have anything you would like to plug, talk about? Fuck no. I'm a TV writer, so I wander the hills just crying, waiting for the next gig to come in.

and being upset. So there's nothing I can particularly plug. We can plug your Twitter or your, or your Facebook. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. If you want to see my adorable dog, you can come follow me on Instagram or Twitter or whatever. It's just Curtis Gwynn. That's awesome. Uh, and Jason, what do you got to talk about? Nothing much really. All right. Uh, uh,

I will plug that we will be in Anaheim later this month for the Now Hear This Fest Saturday night. You can come check that out. Go to nowhearthisfest.com. Also check out Blunt Talk. I'm on that for a couple episodes this season. And make sure you check out our mini episode next week. You can check out Blake's article on Slash Film. He just talked to the technical advisor of Stealth, and it was a great interview.

and you can follow us at HDTGM on, uh, Twitter and on Facebook. Uh, a big thank you to our engineers, Sam, uh, Averill Halley, who from movie bitches, uh, who cuts all of our clips. She's amazing. Uh,

July Diaz, Nate Kiley, Marissa Zeitz, Leanna Waldron, and everybody here at Earwolf. Thank you so much for listening. As we leave, let's take a quick listen to all the main characters from the movie singing Blue Bayou from the edited version, the ending of the movie. There you go. Saving nickels, saving dimes Working till the sun don't shine Looking forward to happier times On Blue Bayou

I'm going back someday, come what may, to blue by.

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