Jonathan Livingston Seagull LIVE!
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bas.com slash bonkers and use the code bonkers at checkout. In a word, this movie is unbelievable. We saw Jonathan Livingston Siegel, so you know what that means. ... ... ... ... ... ...

We are live at the Beacon back here. We haven't been here in years. And when we're back, we brought the best. Jonathan Livingston Siegel.

Don't adjust the sound on your podcast. This audience loves it. They were excited. People were lining up. You should see all the seagull costumes we have in the audience. Now, if you don't know about this movie, let me tell you a little bit about it. It's about a seagull who yearns to be fast but learns how to time travel. Came out in 1973. Neil Diamond did all the music. Neil Diamond sued this movie.

Because not enough of this music was in it. So the credits are six minutes so they could dump three more Neil Diamond songs in it. But I bet you none of you watched the whole credits. Roger Ebert only walked out of four movies in his entire career. This was one of them. Tagline.

Everyone's favorite book is now everyone's favorite motion picture. Not true. All right, so we got to break this down. We got to break this down to the ground. We got to learn. We got to see what was inside of us. What did we learn about ourselves? Because this movie, if you haven't caught it already, is a metaphor. Here to break it down are my two co-hosts. Please welcome Mr. Jason Manzoukas. What's up, jerks?

How we doing, New York? That's what I'm talking about. These people are heroes. Why? Because they chose this movie. Why? Why did you choose this? Why didn't you guys choose New York Ninja? What? You don't like it? You wanted the other one? I heard you guys were whining. You guys were whining online like babies. We don't

this movie we want to like the bad movies we have to watch for your dumb show you fucking animals eat shit New York we gave you gift we gave you a gift it's a show about bad movies and people are like it's too bad oh I if you are fucking lucky that you had to watch this and if you didn't you're a fucking coward

I'm talking to you, balcony! That's right! Can I get lights up there for a second? Look at these fucking maniacs! Holy shit! Sit down! Jesus Christ is what this is about! This is about a Christ bird! And tonight, we're gonna crucify that bird. If you are listening at home, we are talking to the orchestra, or as we call them, the elders up top.

is our Jonathan Living Seagulls. Oh, yeah. And the mezzanine is Maureen? The Mezzamoreen? Or Chang. I like it. The Mezzamoreen. Or Fletcher. Now, let's bring out my next co-host who wouldn't let me post pictures of her reacting to this movie because it quite possibly was the best thing I've ever seen in my life.

As I was a couple minutes ahead and knew what was coming up, please welcome a friend of the birds, a woman who if a bird comes within 50 feet, runs in the opposite direction, Miss June Diane Raphael! How are you, June? Not well. I'm not. I'm not well. I'm not doing well. I don't feel well.

I'm not well, Paul. How are you? I'm fine, thank you for asking. June, not until the introduction did I realize or remember that you hate birds. Paul, there's only one bird I like and that's a hummingbird. All the rest...

can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned. But did you enjoy about this movie? What I believe is I knew innately upon watching it, which was that many birds died making this movie. I'm going to say upwards of 20 birds were painted white for this movie and died as a result.

This movie is rotten with bird corpses. I will have you both know, let's start at the very beginning because all I saw in my calendar was seagull. I knew I had to watch a movie called Seagull.

And I thought, oh, it's a Chekhov adaptation, of course. We're going to be dealing with generational kind of conflict and life of an artist. And I was so ready. And then it started. And all I did was click a link. And it started. And I thought, this is a long opening. Yeah.

Wait, so you even got into the movie thinking that you were going to watch an adaptation of Chekhov's The Seagull. I will tell you, I have never heard of this book. Oh, okay. So this book was brand new to me. Who here knows of this as the book? Okay, so those are the old people in the room. Yeah. Because this was a ubiquitous kind of loosely spiritual book that was on everybody's living room coffee table. Wow. It's three chapters long.

In length, because it was written in an aviation magazine. That's where it came from. What? Yes. I'll give you a little bit of it. Like all good books, it started...

I mean chapters in an aviation magazine. Do you mean like an in-flight magazine? Yeah, like the Delta magazine. Like the SkyMall? The Delta magazine was like, what if a bird was Jesus Christ?

It was started as like a story about a pilot who wanted to go fast. The name Jonathan Livingston is based on a pilot who decided to fly very fast and the author decided, oh, hmm, what if it wasn't a pilot but a seagull?

and then wrote in an aviation magazine this story, which then was turned into a novella, which then became an international sensation, which then was made into a movie with songs by Neil Diamond. Wow, what a journey. Wow, you know what I'm just now remembering? New York, I know why you chose this movie, because the last time we were here, it was another Neil Diamond movie. Right. You guys love Neil Diamond. That's right.

And you know, I have a special, I do have a special place for him in my heart because he sang at my NYU graduation a song he had written just for us. Whoa! Called Forever NYU. How did it go? Forever NYU. That was pretty much it. Over and over and over again. But I so appreciated him being there. So I was, listen, Neil Diamond. Did he have a child in your graduating class? No. Oh.

Neil Diamond was a respite in this movie. Hearing his voice made me feel like I could put my feet on the ground. Like I was, because I actually at one point thought, are we doing? Are we dead? Are we dead if this is our punishment? I transcended during the film. Are we in not heaven, but just the place that you can go fast?

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I wrote down while watching this, oh, I think this is a horror movie.

I wish. I wish the making of it certainly was. So many, I know I've said it, so many birds died making this movie. Jason, we've done the research. Seriously though, I think one bird definitely died. So many more. Really? Oh yeah, no. This was like a snuff film for seagulls. This movie was on Bin Laden's hard drive.

I will say... Still got it, everybody. I will say that it wasn't until the year 1980 where it was required to say no animals were harmed in the making of this film. This film came out in 1973. So it did sit right under the wire. That's terrible. And again, I don't care for birds. And yet...

By the way, I just want to let you know that the magazine in which the first chapter of the novella was published was called Private Pilot Magazine. Private Pilot Magazine. That sounds like a porno mag for pilots. What a niche market Private Pilot Magazine is. And then to be like, people in Private Pilot Magazine love it. This should be a book.

Like, oh, you mean all ten readers of Private Pilot magazine?

I want to say hats off to the author of that article because to have something take off like that from a pilot's magazine, just the pool of audience members you're working with, that's remarkable. I mean, Richard D. Bach, that's who wrote it, I will say over a million copies were sold. Wow. Topped the New York Times bestseller list for 38 weeks. This is a big hit. Listen, and there are...

There are moments in this movie? Question mark? Yeah. Slideshow? I'm not sure it's a movie. I don't know if it qualifies as a movie. I know. PowerPoint presentation? I don't know. It's B-roll. It's B-roll. I know, but there are some really beautiful shots that I did think were breathtaking. And there are some lines when...

When someone, I don't know who it was, one of the characters says, loving is giving. I was moved by that. And I'll tell you what. I believe you're talking about Chang. Yes. That's Jonathan's mentor. The other line that just deeply moved me, and I want to start with the positive, was when our main character, whose name is... Jonathan Livingston Siegel. Yes.

That should be rolling off the tip of your tongue. Holy shit. When he says, what is fast enough?

And Chang says, perfect speed isn't moving fast at all. Perfect speed is being there. I wanted to write that down and reflect on that. Yes. I wrote that down too. I wanted to sit with that for a minute. He also says, one begins to think that space and time aren't real. I wrote that down. And I was like, is Chang Doctor Who? No.

This is some real timey-wimey bullshit here. Wait a second, hold on. I'm realizing I wrote down what is a perfect speed. Well, I think that we're celebrating that we all wrote it down, but it may be one of seven lines in the film. So... You were just happy to hear people talking. When the birds started talking, I lost my mind.

Because it took a while. It took a while, and I was like, okay, it's going to be, I get it, it's going to be Neil Diamond songs and footage of birds. Got it. And then the birds started not talking, but whispering. Yeah.

Well, this is the issue! Because they're talking like I'm in a library. What's going on? How are you? And here's the thing. Maybe this is before people realize that it's important to have different sounding voices represent different characters. Because at certain points, I'm like, is that who? What? And I can't tell the difference between the birds. I'm sorry, I'm not racist, but I just don't know.

I was having trouble and at one point I was like oh this is like

Someone is trying to tell you a bedtime story and they're trying to do all the voices But all the voices are sounding exactly the same and then I look and know there are multiple different actors. Yeah Oh, yeah, and the whispering is really only Jonathan Livingston Seagull everybody else speaks in a full voice He though has this really quite but what he's saying is oftentimes like I don't want to play by rules I want to go I was like

What the fuck is this? And then I was like, oh, this is a Christ allegory. And so he can't have anything other than like calmness as his representation. I couldn't figure it out. But I also desperately wanted the Neil Diamond songs to be being sung by the birds. I wanted the music to be generating from the birds. I will say this.

As somebody who likes a credit, I look at the credits. I want to see all the great craftsmen that make this film. Yeah, you always stay for all the credits. I did see one of the first titles that popped up. I think I saw the same thing. Script Supervisor. Oh, yeah.

Script supervisor. So just so you know, when you're on a set, a script supervisor will say, hey, oh, on this line, you actually forgot end. Oh, they actually were carrying the purse in the right hand. They're making sure that every line that's needed in that scene gets said in one of the takes. Making sure. This script supervisor, I just pictured on set being like...

You were supposed to disappear on that line. I just wanted to see a script supervisor watching birds on a beach in which clearly their feet were glued to the ground. Oh, yeah. I would say a full half of this movie appeared to be shot at an active dump.

That's it? Like, they were like, we'll throw cameras on the dump. The other credit that I saw, which made me laugh, and I was like, uh-oh, was helicopter photography. I was like, okay, the helicopter gets its own credit? We'll see. By the way, that person, I believe, won an Oscar. For this? Yeah, yeah.

I've got to find it in my notes, but I'm pretty positive. I will say, I'm not surprised. I thought it was beautiful. I did. I thought it was very beautiful. Especially for 1970 whatever. Absolutely. It was beautiful to watch. Well, let me ask you a question. I'll just say that he was nominated for an Academy Award. Did not win it. I'm not surprised. I felt like, did you guys feel like a lot of this movie served as inspiration for Top Gun?

All the aerial scenes. At one point, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, JLS, seems to go into a flat spin and he hits the water hard. And I wrote, is this bird dying at minute 22 with genuine hope and glee? And my next note is, nope, he's flying again to Neil Diamond. But this is my issue about the movie. Uh...

Your single issue? Just one? I believe it has a flawed conceit, which is flying is difficult for birds. Right? The whole movie is like, "Ugh! I can't fly! My wings are heavy!"

That would be like, it's such a weird premise. Listen, I do think, and I don't know that much about seagulls, but I don't consider them to be expert flyers. Okay, go ahead. I...

I believe seagulls are on land more than they're flying. That's just my own experience of them. That's just my own anecdotal evidence. Let me argue, you spend most of your time on land. Majority, yeah. So you see them on land. That's where I happen to see them. Are you on the ocean or in the air a lot? Don't worry about my data and how I'm lifting it. I would argue, June, if your theory... You're like, I barely see them up in the sky.

They're always right there. June, if your theory is correct, they would be called langels. The one? I guess I just think there are other birds that do it better. Oh, yeah. There are other birds that do it better. That's a jerk. I agree with you. And I grew up in a coastal town where there was a lot of seagulls, and they were mean as fuck. They're nasty. Yep. They are nasty animals. Now, they're not pigeons. I wanted the hawk.

You people are the pigeons. New York City. They're not pigeons, but they're really close. Oh, they're the rats. They're rats. Yeah, absolutely. I looked only one thing up, and it wasn't about the movie itself, but just because I was curious as the movie was going on, what the fuck is happening? Can you guess what the average lifespan of a seagull is? I believe it's not that long. Like,

Eight years? I was going to say seven. Ten to twenty years. What? What? Yeah, that sounds right. These fucking seagulls are in college? That blew my mind. Because I was like, what the fuck? How long does this movie take place over? Well, I mean, what is time? What is space? Yeah. And Jonathan gets to be 33 years old. Oh, you're right.

How does Jonathan know anything about miles per hour? Yes, great question. Not only does he know... My first standing ovation for an observation. Not only that, but he knows innately the speed he's going. Why can't I fly faster than 62 miles an hour?

I mean, this is truly... Okay, just to pull back for one second. Again, I haven't read the book, and there are some things in this movie that I deeply connected to. I deeply connected to, but I did, by the end, I was trying to understand what...

book slash movie slash slideshow was telling us like, was it that we have to leave our community to really understand ourselves as an individual and seek a higher purpose and a spiritual connection to the beyond and then come back and sort of deliver that news to the community? There's such disdain for the community in this movie.

And I guess that's new age spiritualism in general. Yes. That the focus is solely on the individual and their path and not... It's a very hippie idea. Like, go out, do drugs, party, come back to your hometown and tell your parents they're squares. Yeah.

Well, I think it, I mean, I really do think the story is mapping the Christ story onto the seagull. He goes out into the desert. He goes out into the wilderness. By the way, when it went to the desert, I was like, did I not pay attention to something? How are we in the desert? I didn't know. Oh, and then he goes to the snowy mountains? Yes. I was like, this seagull that's in the snowy mountains for sure died.

There's absolutely no way. They brought a seagull to the middle of the Rockies and were like, just put it down over there. Tie its leg to the ground. We'll film it until it expires and then we will walk away. I know at least... I know at least...

A deer ate at least two or three seagulls. For sure. For sure. But, you know, he goes out into the world. He is cast out. He wanders the desert. He wanders the world. That's right. Yeah. He dies. He goes into the afterlife. He communes with Maureen. I assumed that Maureen is Mary and... No, but Mary would be... I thought it was his girlfriend, but I don't know where that falls. Okay, then Mary Magdalene. Yeah, okay, sure. Sure.

It is interesting because he comes back, he gives a sermon on the mount. Yeah, then he spreads a good word. He resurrects someone. He Lazaruses someone. Is his name Fletcher? Fletcher? Fletcher? Fletcher Siegel. Are they all called Siegel? Yes, they all share the same last name, Siegel. It's like Smurf.

It's like the Smurfs are all called Blank Smurf. They all have first, middle, and last name Seagull. Oh, my gosh. Can I just play the moment, the trial at scene two? Outcast. You're going to play clips from this movie, Paul? Oh, I got a lot of clips. Let's watch the trial. If you guys aren't cool, we'll start the movie from the beginning. Jonathan Livingston Seagull, you do not live as we live.

You do not fly as we fly. You do not believe as we believe. You will learn that life is the unknown and the unknowable. We are put into this world to survive any way we can. Is this the bird that's talking or the bird that's receiving? Who knows? I don't believe that. Is that a different bird? Jonathan Seagull, the brotherhood is broken.

Never again will you see any of your flock. Never again will you have the protection of your flock. You are henceforth and forever outcast. Outcast! By the way, that may be the shirt. Just a picture of a seagull with a thing. Outcast. I like that. I will say this. I didn't realize it until later, but the elder is Hal Holbrook.

Mark Twain? Yes, Mark Twain, Evening Shades, Hal Holbrook, Richard Crenna played Jonathan's father. But there is an interesting thing because, again, I want to go back to what the sequel is supposed to do because it's hard to watch a movie where the opening scene...

You're watching your main characters enjoy chum out of the water. All right. Seems a little weird. It's not majestic eating fish guts. What's the next scene? Oh, them eating each other. Because that literally is the next scene. It's one seagull is chewing on the other seagull's head. They're fighting. They're bloodied. They're fighting. That was very upsetting.

And then you're supposed to be like, I sympathize with this, but then my question is, are they saying seagulls are trash monsters and they only care about eating garbage? And that's what the tribe does. Until they have enough lives that they learn about perfection and are given entrance into heaven? And can dot, dot, dot, teleport? But I think...

that the movie does not this is where the allegory sort of falls apart because I thought the movie does not believe there is a heaven and

I agree with that. Yeah, at one point they talk about how it's right here. It's in our actions. Again, I'm deeply connected to those. This is a quote from the movie. Heaven isn't a place, it's perfection. But that seems against... I don't know. I don't know what you mean. But that seems against what he's saying because he's saying that perfection doesn't exist. Love exists.

is better than perfection because he's like how fast you need to be 270 a million miles an hour yeah like there he wants to be that's faster he gets he says he wants to achieve perfect speed which i was like this like i feel like jonathan livingston seagull is going to be the next cast member of the fast and furious put him in put him in i would have loved it if he had a little nause button

Come on! Boom! Boom! It's so hard to because we're hearing those words, but when we're cutting to the close-ups of the seagulls, the... They're the least expressive animal you could catch. There's nothing going on behind the eyes. There's no need for speed. You know when it's made absolutely clear how absolutely stupid seagulls look?

is when that hawk arrives. They put a camera on that hawk and I was like, wait a minute, something cool is happening. This hawk is alive. And the seagulls are like, get out of my air. The hawk for sure kills that seagull. For sure kills that seagull. It's so true. It's like when you have a movie and there's a character actor who comes in and just like lights up the screen. The hawk is the Benicio Del Toro of this movie.

And you're just like, wow, something real is happening. I feel alive. I'm awake for this moment. That was the hawk. Now, can I just, not to repeat what Jason's already said, but how would you ever orchestrate a hawk attack in a movie? Well, I guess I have to ask, is the hawk attack in the book? Okay, you know what?

Is there a book expert here that we can go to? Any librarian in the audience? Is there a librarian? Oh, that would be great if there's a librarian. Over here, you are? You read it today. All right, so you're going to be the freshest. Can you come over to the side of the stage and I'll walk over to you? Yeah. All right. The question was, is the hawk attack in the book? No. Okay. Is there anything like the hawk attack in the book, even if it's not a hawk? No. No.

Any other questions while I'm down here? Is this a faithful adaptation of the book? It is exactly the movie I would have expected after reading the book. By the way, my reading it today was just a refresher. I've read it multiple times. Wait a minute. Wow. I have a follow-up question. Why? So I grew up in the land where this was filmed, also home to Birdemic and the birds.

So, you know, living in the coastal town, I was born in 1980, so this book was very fresh. It was on my parents' shelf. So I picked it up when I was like eight years old. It was a book that was very popular with children, right? It was a popular book. Do you find, like June finds, some spiritual centering with the book?

Absolutely. I read it again for high school and wrote like a 20 stanza poem about it as my book report. Do you have it memorized? Read the poem. Read the poem. Read the poem. Read the poem. She doesn't have it. I don't think you have it with you. Do you remember any part of it?

I don't, and this is pre-internet, so I don't have, like, a copy. All right, well, I won't make you sit away from your friends, but I will... Please post the poem after this if you can find it, take a screenshot of it, whatever. So, I guess my question is this. While we... What's your name? Morgan. Morgan, while we have you, what... So, if the hawk... Do you think that they just...

saw that hawk attack and decided to get cameras up and rolling yeah i i i think it was like found footage you know like national geographic i think they were like we need some drama yeah what if they were just filming and a hawk attack happened great we'll work it in off my land i mean it was a very crazy moment it was a comical moment too it seemed like

Oh, this is interesting. The filmmaker was sued because they added two violent episodes that were not in the book and he felt like that took away from the magic, the majesty of his book. What was the other violent episode?

That maybe when they were, all of the seagulls were attacking each other. Yeah. Oh, that was violent. That was. Wait, for Morgan, is the scene in the, can I ask a question, Morgan? Is the scene in the book where JLS is trying to fly too fast and then falls and is all bloodied on the raft in the water and you think he's going to die, is that in the book?

Yeah, I mean, he crashes. He crashes. Does Fletcher get killed in the same way? He flies into the mountain. Yeah, okay. Because he's avoiding the little baby bird. Correct. And so that happens in the book, too. Yeah, okay, great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Morgan. Give it up for Morgan! Thank you, Morgan!

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You learned so much that you didn't have to go through multiple lifetimes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When did he learn that? What did he learn? I feel like... I don't know what she's talking about. So, Jason, I think a lot happened. I would love to know if it was in the book, Morgan. I think a lot happened when our seagull... What's the character's name again? Jonathan Livingston Seagull.

June is actively erasing the movie from her memory as we talk. It's leaving as we speak. I have so much. I'm an adult woman. I'm carrying a lot of things in this little brain. I can't carry everything. I can't. Some names and places are going to go. It's not sticking. So when that guy...

I do think a lot happens when he's witnessing, like there's certain things that he witnesses. He's witnessing a horse breastfeed its... So hot. So hot. It's child and he's watching. That has real Christian stuff. He's perving out on those horse titties. It was so weird. But when he's under there and it's raining and he's watching that...

He's watching that. I do think he's understanding things. Again, there's no dialogue under there. So we just have to put the pieces together. Yes. Okay, so when he flew from the desert to the wintry tundra, that's when he was learning. I guess he flies all over the world? Does he do the whole world? Is that what we're meant to believe? I guess. I mean, I think that what we really do need to see, though...

It's another clip. Come on. Why are you doing this? You love it. You love it, New York. This is a Chang talking about some mystical mumbo jumbo. This is clip six. Oh, this is great. Did you see that? He says we can all learn that whenever we want to learn it.

Next life, baby. It is not so difficult, Jonathan. Once we understand. I want to understand. That's my favorite part. The bird disappearing and reappearing is my favorite part. Wait a second. Are you noticing that the bird is reappearing all over the place? Yes. But I like when it's bold. I can think of after a while. One begins to think that space and time are not quite real.

Can you teach me to fly like that? Of course, if you want to learn. Yes, I want. When can we start? I'll do anything. Maureen, did you see? I've got to learn. How do you do it? I mean... First, you let your teacher get a word in edgewise. I'm sorry, Chang. It's just that all my life, I can't explain it. I've had this need to know. To fly as fast as thought to anywhere that is now.

or ever has been or ever will be. I will say, I know we're making a lot of fun about this movie, but I know it's a serious topic. I love the Netflix documentary about the people who are in Chang's cult and they finally got out years later. Really serious stuff. They really, wow, that documentary got me. Can we just talk about this? I wrote this down. The lyrics of a Neil Diamond song that goes like this. Hold on. Pulling it up.

Lonely looking sky, lonely sky, lonely looking sky. And being lonely makes you wonder why, makes you wonder why. Lonely looking sky, lonely looking sky, lonely looking sky, lonely looking night, lonely night, lonely looking night. And being lonely never made it right, never made it right. Listen. Lonely looking night, lonely looking night.

Again, forever NYU. Forever NYU. Listen, we can say whatever we want about him, but can you imagine this movie without Neil Diamond? These seagulls are coming to America today. The thing I love about Neil Diamond... I would have loved it if it was like Leonard Skinner. I have to tell you guys. So I was getting my hair blown out

Today. Today! Today! Today! And at first, I knew I had to finish the movie while I was getting... And I've never met this person before who came to do this. And I put my little earbuds in, my AirPods, and I thought, let me... Because she's right behind me. Let me just keep her away from this, what I'm witnessing on my computer. But at a certain point, the buds died, right?

And I had to just play it. You know, I had to play it. I want to know the conversation she's having currently. How was your day? You're not going to believe this. And I thought it was so stressful. We were all getting ready. The kids are here. I was like, I don't have it in me. I don't have the bandwidth. I'm already so beaten down by this movie. I don't have it in me to tell her to explain why I'm watching this and taking notes.

I don't, I can't, you know. I guess it's a movie. It's just footage of birds. And she was scribbling notes like she was going to be tested on it. But then I realized if I just do love and not hair, maybe that's my perfection.

What I would like is for someone, either a fan or Avril or something, to recut a trailer for Jonathan Livingston Seagull, except instead of Neil Diamond music, it's like Led Zeppelin. It's like Immigrant Song. Or it's something just like absolutely thunderous and brutal. With the fighting and all the rest. I will always say that my favorite Neil Diamond story is...

he saw the movie E.T. and was so moved by it that he ran home and wrote that song Heartlight like, turn on your heartlight. They didn't ask him to record that. And that's what I love. I love him. I love that he's like, I want to write a song about that heartlight that that dumb alien has.

Let it shine wherever you go. Can you imagine? So this is something I'm wondering after watching that last clip. Do you think the actors, question mark, that they recorded their lines to picture? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Categorically, no. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them had never seen the movie.

One of them recorded it in a library, which makes sense for the quiet tone. Even when we played the clip, the whispering was like I couldn't hear a goddamn word. It's like I put on closed captioning for everything, as you know. Never have I been more happy than I did. Don't applaud for that.

Don't applaud for closed captioning. By the way, that is... Get it together. No! No! Why? Play the trailer again. I mean, it's so interesting that the choice was made for what's the character's name again? Jonathan... What do you think it is?

So I do have a dear friend, Jonathan Levine, who's, he directed Long Shot. He's a very good friend of mine. You're great in the movie. Thank you so much. And I... Paul, you were great in the movie. Thank you, Jason. I was not asked to be in the movie.

Technically, I was a local hire because I was with June in Canada, so it was easier for me. So I keep on hearing in my head Jonathan Levine Siegel, and that's where I'm getting confused. Well, you may be getting confused with your friend Kirk Maynard Siegel, right? It's possible. But from what I know of Siegels, they're so loud. They're so loud. You have very little knowledge of Siegels.

Hey, listen, my experience is my expertise. List what you know about seagulls. Go. They eat garbage. They're not afraid to come up to humans. They don't fly that well. They'll do it, but I don't think it's what their soul's purpose is. There is a long-standing, I don't know if it's an urban legend or it's real, if you feed a seagull an Alka-Seltzer, it will explode.

This is, again, I grew up in a beach town and there were seagulls everywhere. That's terrible. That same thing happened to my grandfather. What's that? Same thing happened to my grandfather. Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, boom! What else is there to say? I mean, I don't know what... What else is there to say, June? I'd love to direct you towards the scenes in which they fly in outer space. I forgot about that. I'm so sorry. Morgan, do they go to outer space in the book? No. No. No! No!

Thank you. Morgan's doing the Lord's work. I'm sorry, Jonathan Livingston Seagull's work. They definitely put a bird on a green screen. Like at one point, the bird, it's like in old Hitchcock movies when, you know, someone's driving and you just see a screen behind them. It's like, we're driving down the road. There's moments in this movie that are like that too. And I'm like,

How did they get the bird in front of the screen? Listen, in those opening credits, I didn't see anything about seagull handler, seagull trainer. Every single shot that you see with seagulls in it, you have to assume all the birds in that shot died shooting that shot.

The next shot, new birds, they die. Next shot, new birds, they die. But here's what was really confusing, because at one point I thought, oh, so the bloody fight they get into in the beginning of the movie, there's blood on that seagull's face. And they're tracking that blood, I think, on that particular seagull's face, our main character, Jonathan, if that's right,

We're seeing that seagull, so we know that that's our main character throughout the movie. And then sometimes it felt like the blood wasn't there. That is very true. I also was tracking the blood, and it was not there. Also, our...

Jonathan Livingston Seagull, in early scenes, has distinctive marks on his beak that are not present in most of the other scenes. Wow. Which, once again, leads me to believe he died and did not rise from the dead as the character does. Or maybe...

I mean, here's what I'll say about the caring for the birds. This is, of course, a Hall-Bartlett joint. He wrote it, he directed it, did the whole thing. Bartlett hired Leslie Parrish as the film's associate producer. Because all birds must perish. She chose several of the locations and helped care for all the seagulls in a suite at the Holiday Inn. Oh, God.

But then... Can you imagine meeting her in the bar downstairs and her being like, I don't know, this is going pretty well. Why don't we go up to my room? Can you imagine the Holiday Inn people? They charge you for smoking in a room. Oh, don't mind them. Don't mind them. Oh my God. They just like to watch. And then when Leslie Parrish, the film's associate producer... Parrish the thought.

When Leslie Parrish, the film's associate producer, watched the screening, she saw that she was demoted to researcher. Now, the other thing about this was the seagulls were supposed to be trained by veteran bird trainer Ray Berwick. However... Berwick? Berwick? Berwick. Ber. Ber. Change your name if you're that close. Throw a D in there. However, Berwick got sick.

Never came back to the film. So somebody else, he just didn't show up. It seems like Hal Bartlett did not get along with anybody in this making of the film. A film that he proclaimed, I was born to make.

That's what's so true. I mean, I will say this about our entertainment industry. There are certain animals, when they say seagull trainer, there's no way to train a seagull. It's like you're just a person who owns one. Or captured. My guess is captured seagull. Do you remember on the league? Don't point at me like that. Do you remember on the league, we were shooting a scene with a snake?

and there was a snake trainer there, and he's like, "Oh yeah, I can get the snake to do whatever you want." And then the snake sat coiled up on the ground, and we're like, "Well, can he come over here?" He's like, "Nah, he's a snake. Nah, I can't control him. He's a snake. He's got a mind of his own." Let's go into the audience to hear your questions.

Now, I did learn a little bit from the Taylor Swift concert. She does costume changes, so now I'll do one, and I'll put on my hat that says, I'll hold the mic. All right, so no one needs to grab the mic from my hand. We have a question. Oh, I can come to you. Okay, great. What's your name, and say your first name and the last name Siegel, and then ask your question. Maricela Siegel.

And I just wanted to get your thoughts on their kind of disability politics were a little problematic. This movie was ableist, I feel like, yes. It was interesting. I wrote that down. I didn't know how to get to it, but I'm glad that you brought it up. Yeah, they really were giving up on that bird with the broken wing. Fletcher.

Wasn't it Fletcher? Oh, yes, it was. And then, you know, they're trying to get rid of Fletcher, and he's like, no, you can fly, don't worry about it. And Fletcher does fly until he dies, and then Jesus Christ Seagull resurrects him.

And he becomes a teacher. They all become teachers. It is so tough because it did, I think what this movie brought up for me too is my like frustration and resentment toward that new age philosophy of like, oh, if we just acknowledge our limiting beliefs about ourselves, we can change the world. And it's like, well,

Yeah. Yes and no. You're still a seagull. You're still a seagull at the end of the day. And like, we need bigger policies. I mean, I don't know. It just made me, it just made me mad. It just made me mad. All right.

We got a question back here. Your name, your Siegel name, and your question. My name is Dan Siegel. So we all remember that part about like 20 minutes in where he tries to fly and then crashes. And he's basically bleeding out, and we thought he was going to die. And I'm wondering if it's possible that maybe this whole movie after that is... Do not say, Jacob Flair. Do not say that. Not only are you a fucking moron, but the person next to you was taking a flash photo during that?

Get the fuck out of the beacon. Your seagull name and your question. Idiot. Slash seagull. I just want to get your thoughts on how Jonathan's a dick because the seagull dies his protege. He goes to heaven and then he says, well, you could stay in heaven or, you know, they need you back home to teach the other seagulls like a dick. Like he just tricks them into going back. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

This is a wild reading of that. You think Jonathan Livingston Seagull is a dick because he resurrects Fletcher and says, now you can be a teacher for the flock. And that's a dick move? I actually do agree. Really? I agree. Wow. How so?

Because he took him out of heaven? Yeah, because he took him out of this transcendent moment so that he could go be mortal again. And I was like, wow. And I do think that if someone's on the edge of passing on to the next dimension, I'm going to let

them go see and that's a note to all my friends and family who are here i'm gonna let you go i feel like he gave fletcher a real opportunity to have more to give to become a teacher to become a representative someone who could come who has learned and can can teach the basically fletcher seems to me to be an apostle oh boy he's fucked up

I hate this so much, Paul. Put your eyes to the mezz for a real-life Jonathan Livingston Siegel right here. There's a man here. I'm going to assume it's a man, even though I don't know. It's definitely a man who's got a giant Siegel head on him. Paul has his arm around the Birdman.

Don't look at us. Don't look at us, Siegel man. Please keep the mask on for the question. All right. Your name, your Siegel name and your question. Jason Siegel. All right. We loved you in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. And your question.

So how many times did they film the death scene? Yes, that scene is really upsetting. A bird crashes into the side of the mountain and just so you know it's dead, it falls a comical amount. Yeah. Like, and this is, I'm dating myself, but like Toontz's The Driving Cat. Yeah.

level like, ka-ka, ka-ka, ka-ka. Like it falls and falls and falls. Paul was really disturbed by that scene so much so that at one point, I was watching that scene while our kids were watching the movie with us. But Paul had already seen it and he goes, fast forward! Fast forward! Well, I didn't want my youngest, my merch rep to see that.

I thought he would be upset by... It was also like slow-mo. It was like really, it was like indulgent. Again, this is, for some, a snuff film. An erotic thriller. Alright, I have a question over here. But he doesn't die, because he does die, but like Lazarus, he is resurrected. He has the first power, I believe. Wait, like Lazarus? He was resurrected? Lazarus in the Bible. He was resurrected?

Wow. I got to go back and check it out. Dude, you got to check out the Bible. Holy shit. It sounds familiar. It's in the hotel. I will say Paul went to Catholic school. The people who went to Catholic school know the least about it. I don't know. I was a religion major in college and I'm a zero on everything.

I remember nada. I am in the balcony. Be careful. Be careful, Paul. Don't stand up in the front row. Don't stand up in the front row. You're so close to falling over. I will now go to the back of the balcony. If I picked you to sing a song, get ready to get down there. All right, here we go. Who's here? All right, come to me a little bit so I don't die.

Here we go. Okay. Careful. Your name, your seagull name, and your question. Lo Sagal. Okay, great. So instead of a religious allegory, couldn't it be a sexual freedom allegory? Wherein the community doesn't like what Jonathan Livingston Seagull is doing sexually. Rocket man. And they want to repress him. He's too fast. And he wants to...

Fast and hard. And so he experiences the little death, the le petit mort. Okay, the orgasm you mean? And then he suffers from the shame of it. He's on the raft. He's feeling terrible. He's like so ashamed. And then he realizes, no, this is my true authentic self. I need to be who I am. I need to live my truth. I need to fuck how I want to fuck.

Can't beat that. The balcony could make this Christian movie horny. I agree. Because later in the movie, I was like, when Maureen and Jonathan Livingston Seagull are splitting up, she says, I love who you are, Jonathan. And I was like, wait a minute, are they fucking? And I wanted to see it. I wanted to see these birds fuck.

Okay, so obviously we have an opinion about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. It is now time for second opinions. I logged on to leave my review. I never thought I'd find a film like you. Find a film like you.

With music by Neil Diamond too The kind of songs I won't fast forward through I won't fast forward through And I flew I flew to Amazon Like Jonathan Jonathan Livingstein

That's it. You did it. You did the right thing. Hold on. You did the right thing. Stay there. Stay there. Yes. This is a hero. Hero. Hero. No one has ever done that. You heard the applause. It's not going to get better. He called it. He called it right there. This is a hero. Also, the inspiration for that song is what band? That's a flock of seagulls. Boom. Boom. Boom.

Get the fuck back in your seat. Well done. It's over, baby. It's over, baby. Well done. That's what we're talking about. New York City comes hard. How can you compete with that? Everybody else in line should sit the fuck down. No, you got an instrument. No, no, no. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Next one up. Here we go.

And now it's time. Oh, they gave each other a fist bump. I love that. By the way, this is not for the podcast. Cut this from the podcast. I love how much you guys love each other. I love how happy you are to see each other and how supportive you are of each other. But I can't say that during the podcast. Okay? So now we're back in on the podcast. Fuck this dildo. Here he goes. And I just want the flock to see me.

But I don't think that they understand. When everyone else can fly 60, I just want to get to 1,000. I just want a second opinion. Yeah! Worth it! Worth it! Worth it! What's your name? Do it again! Do it again! Do it again! Do the whole thing again? Yes!

And I just want the flock to see me. But I don't think that they understand. When everyone can fly 60, I just want to get to 1,000. I just want a second opinion. Yes! Holy shit! New York came to play! That was awesome. What's her name? Will Patrick Siegel. Yes.

Thank you. All right, here we go. And now it's time for second opinions. You're unusual and an anxious bird. You want to travel the world. Your mom thinks you dive too fast. The elders had you outcast. And though it might seem strange,

♪ Might seem untrue ♪ ♪ But I like this bird ♪ ♪ The seagull laughs away ♪ ♪ In the snow with the horses ♪ ♪ Eating trash with my cousins ♪ ♪ You might think I'm the devil ♪ ♪ But I like this bird ♪ ♪ The seagull laughs away ♪ ♪ Fly through space 'cause it feels right ♪

Raid five stars on a website and head off with my flock into the sunlight. Wow. Incredible. Incredible. Killed it. Wait, wait, wait. What's your name? Sorry, this is Blaise Ferrer Siegel.

Everyone here is so much more talented than us. I really do feel that. What a blessing. I'm starting to feel badly about myself. I really... Let them do the show. Part of me wants to do like six more just because it's so... I want to watch that show. That was a concert. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. Awesome job. We may have to put all of them in. We just did two shows in Boston and every single one of those took a dump on Boston. Oh my God. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. And I'll be honest, at the Boston shows, when you guys hear it, you're going to hear them saying, fuck New York, fuck New York. And it's going to sound a lot like I started that chant. But I love New York. All right, here we go. Jonathan Livingston Siegel, that's the main character in the film. Also the title of the film. 763 total reviews. 79% five stars.

Almost 80% loved it. I don't believe that for a second. It was everybody in this audience who clearly loved it. All right, this is written by Gabe Oz, written in 2013. The title is A Beautiful Movie to Cherish. And this is how the review goes. This was the first movie we ever watched when we got our first VCR growing up.

My mother wouldn't let us watch anything else until we saw this film and I'm so glad that she did that for us. It's a message that has stayed with me throughout my life and I look forward to introducing my son to this later on. Thank goodness it's available on Amazon because one, who the flip has a VCR anymore? Who the flip? Two, VCR tapes won't last a lifetime.

Three, you cannot purchase this movie on DVD or VCR formats anymore. That I know of. And four, thanks to Amazon Cloud Storage, I know my purchase will be safe and available for years and years to come. And I may be able to introduce my grandchildren to this flick. May we all be Jonathan's five stars. Jeff Bezos?

This one is written by Michael Shapoah. He says, had the album with Neil Diamond years ago when I was in college, but didn't have time to see the movie. Can't wait to watch it. I was busy with family health issues. Five stars. Wow. To be offering that kind of intimacy and insight in an Amazon review for a movie you have yet to see? I had family health issues? Wow.

In an Amazon review, again, for an unseen as of yet movie. Yep. Oh, that is a cry for help. That's a cry. That is heartbreaking. Jeffrey Greathouse writes this review in 2014 titled Great If You Suspend Disbelief.

When this film came out in 1973, it was popular, but many critics panned it. I think because it has so much sentiment in it. The music is beautiful and spectacular. It has stayed with me all these years. I bought the film to watch it again for the first time in 35 years, and it has stood up. I have a personal reason for liking it. It mirrors my own life.

The film deals with the process of self-actualizing, whereby people who are creative have innovative ideas and a thirst for knowledge and achievement must pull away from the crowd. I highly recommend this film to parents who have children struggling with their creative identity and process of individuation. Five stars. And then finally we'll end up... Wait, that is crazy.

That is crazy. Like, this person, oh, I don't even care. Virginia Gomera writes this. Best birthday gift ever. This is a great piece of artwork inviting me to be aware that nobody can hold me back unless I allow them to steal my dreams. Five stars. Holy shit.

I want to read one thing. I feel like all the reviews for this movie are from sad people. It is truly making me think, wow, we're all so desperate for inspiration. We're turning here? People are searching for me. And they're finding it in the absolutely most dog shit places.

Here. Wow. BML from the Discord wrote, and I forgot my notes up here, so I couldn't get BML out there, but I'll read it, BML.

The species depicted in this movie are Western gull, herring gull, and California gull. They are all native to the West Coast, therefore fall under the protection of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918, which prohibits the capture, trade, harm, or killing of any bird, natural resident, or migrant to the U.S. without the express written permission of the Department of the Interior."

The credits give special thanks to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which seems to indicate such permission was given. Otherwise, basically the entire film is a flagrant violation of this law. Given that the interior is a cabinet-level department within the executive branch, where does greenlighting this movie rank among the list of crimes committed by the Nixon administration? Yes! Yes! Yes!

Way in bird experts. Holy shit. Is that person here? BML, are you here? Wait, where? Over here? Right there? Give it up. Wait, do you have more bird insights? Anything truly important that we need to hear from you? They hired a trained hawk to kill that seagull?

Incredible. Incredible. Great work. Give it up. This audience is fucking great. And look, you had a fun time at the dumb movie you watched. Quickly, I just want to hit three quick things. There were three lawsuits associated with this film. We talked about how Richard Bach, the author, sued Paramount Pictures because it deviated because of the violence. So many lawsuits.

Neil Diamond said he would never get involved in a movie again unless he had complete control. And then the director responded to the lawsuit by criticizing Neil Diamond, saying, he's become too slick. All of his music's not from the heart as it used to be. He might as well be called Neil Emerald. And he goes like this. Bartlett also added, Neil is extraordinarily talented. Often his arrogance is just a cover for the lonely, insecure person he is underneath.

And then finally, another director also sued the film, claiming it stole scenes from his 1936 film, Le Maire. The suit was dismissed without trial, petitioned on the grounds that extensive public school and cultural use of the film had robbed it of its common law copyright protection. The budget for this film in 1973, any guesses? $1.5 million.

1.5 million. It's got to be nothing because this is essentially just B-roll. Well, it's 1.5 million. That's a lot. For 1973? I guess so, yeah. Bunch of birds. Holiday Inn. I mean, what else? Budget was 1.5. Worldwide gross and domestic gross, same, 1.6. So that's what we got there. That is what we have. Wow, wow, wow. This was a yikes. Would you recommend it? Oh, God.

No. It's a yes for the audience. Seems like New York is saying absolutely yes. Again, I kept on wondering, like, oh, when do the people come out? And I do think, you know, it was at about a half an hour. I thought, June, there's nobody else coming.

And for me, that was the lesson. It's like, I don't know, the lesson of individualism and limiting beliefs and all that stuff. For me, the lesson was like, no one's coming to save you. Yeah. Like, you have to go through this on your own. Last night, Jason said to me, he's surprised by my optimism. Sometimes I go into these movies thinking, this will be good. After 13 years of doing this. Yes. And I will say...

There are movies that take my breath away that we do on this show, and this is one of them. I'm like, what? What is it? Yes, it's not a movie. It's crazy. I'm better for having seen it. I, yes. If we didn't, we wouldn't have those songs. We wouldn't know about the Nixon administration. We wouldn't have Jonathan Livingston Siegel. My dad may not have had his doppelganger. No!

We would never have met this wonderful person who read the book. All of you are my gifts. And this movie gave me this gift. That's Paul's worldview. That's beautiful. You know, I like to sit beside it. It's hard for me to fully jump into it. But it's nice to be around. I will say for me, I feel slightly differently in that I hated this. I hated every single second of it.

You loved it. But I love that you had to watch it. I like having the power of making thousands of people watch this terrible movie. That's what's worth it. Even though you whined a lot about the movie, you crushed at every single opportunity. Great work. Thank you, New York! Thank you!

Thank you, Beth. Thank you to our talented merch wrangler and security guard. Thank you to Scott's honey. Eat shit, New York. Bye-bye. What a fun show. And if you want to attend a How Did This Get Made live show yourself, you are about to have a whole lot of chances. Here's the thing. I'm not supposed to announce this until Monday, but guess what?

I'm giving you the exclusive scoop. How Did This Get Made is going back on tour this fall from the 18th to the 21st of October. We're going to Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, New Haven, Connecticut, and Brooklyn, New York, and we're not stopping there. We're going to be doing two shows in Chicago on November 8th and 9th, and two more shows in Minneapolis on November 10th.

10th and 11th. Every night will be a new movie. Details on when tickets go on sale will be announced this Monday, September 25th at HDTGM.com and on our social media accounts. Can't wait for your costumes, your songs, everything. It's going to be great. Anyway, a big thank you to the staff at The Beacon, our amazing tour manager, Beth Thomas, and all of you who actually spent an hour and a half of your life watching that movie. But don't worry about that because...

Now you can commemorate that with a brand new t-shirt. We made a shirt. I actually got it as a sweatshirt. It's a picture of a seagull that says Outcast underneath. It's perfect. You can snag it at tpublic.com slash stores slash hdtgm. You can also buy every shirt we ever made from the Summer Tour there as well, as well as new shirts everywhere.

There we go. All right. If you have a correction and omission for this episode, I want to know about it. Go to our discord at discord.gg slash HDTGM and leave me a voicemail at 619-Paul-Ask. Jason and I will also answer all of your questions, whatever you have about life, love, or bags. So tune into next week to hear me and Jason talk to you. Plus, you'll get an exclusive bonus deleted scene from our live show. And remember,

You can find us anywhere you get your podcasts. Make sure to tell your friends. Make sure to tell your family. Tag us. Do all the things. Follow us on social media. And if you listen to us on Apple Podcasts, please remember to follow us. And last but not least, I got to say thank you to all you listeners who support this show every week and our entire team who this show couldn't be done without. I'm talking about our producer, Scott Sani, Molly Reynolds, our movie picking

producer Avril Howley, our engineers Casey Holford and Rich Garcia, and our associate producer Jess Cisneros, who makes our amazing social media videos. That's all I got, people. We'll see you next week on Last Looks. Until then, bye for now. I just can't be... In love

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