S2 Ep1: Grandma's 'Best Friend' Dot with Danielle Henderson
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I would take the bag to Dot's room and check it out there and then make Dot... Danielle's like, Dot said I could. Dot sanctioned this. Grandma's best friend, Dot, said I could do this. I respect my elders and she wanted to go through your shit. So here we are. ♪

Hello, my little gossip maniacs. Welcome back to season two of Normal Gossip, the show where we bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world.

We are thrilled to be back. You have all been absolutely like rabid and we have been working really hard while we've been away. And we have like this great story for you. Great stories all season. We're like amped to be here. But before we like get all into it, I want to run through a couple of business things up top. First thing.

We have merch now, very cool t-shirts. Alex and I love wearing them. Also tote bags. And you can get all of those at defectorstore.com. The second thing is that we have introduced a form of direct support where you can pay to support this podcast and help us make more podcasts by going to supportnormalgossip.com. We have two tiers. The first one is $5 a month and you get a special exclusive subscriber episode every month.

If you subscribe at the friend level, you could be entered into a pool to be that featured listener. Yay!

It also gets you access to our close friends circle on Instagram, which we'll be using after this episode to answer some questions that you might have about the story or just feelings you have. We'll be there this week to talk about it. So if this is all news to you, I see that you skipped the FAQ episode. That was a little rude. But if you want more information on this, all of it is in the second bonus episode that we released a couple of weeks ago.

The last thing that the second tier gets you is early access to live shows, which we are having our first live show on June 1st at Caveat in New York City. It's going to be at 7 p.m. It's a Wednesday. So get ready to rage. Tickets are 30 bucks in advance. We would love to see you there. You can go to caveat.nyc and we'll also like put a link in the show notes and everything.

For the premiere of season two, we have with us Danielle Henderson. She's the author of The Ugly Cry, a memoir, and feminist Ryan Gosling. She has written on the television shows Divorce, Maniac, and Difficult People. She has a wonderful podcast about films called I Saw What You Did. She's my favorite person to text about house drama. Danielle, welcome. Oh my goodness. Thank you for having me. This is so great. I'm so happy that you're here.

I'm thrilled. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about what your relationship is with gossip? Oh, yeah. I have a very healthy and decades-long relationship with gossip. My nickname as a child was Rona Barrett. And Rona Barrett was a 60s, 70s gossip columnist. Incredible. My family used to call me Rona Barrett because I could not hear anything in the presence of adults and not run to tell someone. Like, immediately. Yeah.

Immediately. Yeah, so we were the same child. Cannot reveal that to people. Like, it's not okay. And I think as an adult, my relationship with gossip now is, it's very affirmative. So I use gossip as a way to affirm how awful I think people are. And if they truly turn out to be awful, I want to know. That's the opposite of what I thought you were going to say when you said

you said affirmative. Oh yeah, like not like happy or good, like affirmative to me that I was right about my opinions about somebody. That your hunch was correct. Completely. And I use it professionally. I use it personally. My friends kind of know, like I don't get random, like, you know, when I used to live in New York and I was a freelance writer for a while and you kind of just fall into these circles where you're always talking about people and I never really enjoyed that. But I definitely now that I don't live in that world, I'm

I still want to hear about what's going on. Like, I'll remember this person that we always thought was a piece of crap. They are a piece of crap. Here's why. And I hear wild gossip now because I'm outside of the circle. Yes, because they're not worried about you reporting it back. Completely. I have no one to tell. I live in the woods.

Like I have no one to tell. Oh, I'm so glad you just transitioned us right into my next question. Thank you so much. So for people who don't know, you did live in LA for a little bit and you hated it. And you have since returned to the woods to your hometown. Can you tell me a little bit about how your relationship with gossip has changed now that you are amongst-

many people you know. Oh, yeah. And this is what happened was, you know, that I purchased a home, I moved back to my hometown. My grandmother has dementia, she's moving in with me. And I kind of did it for her. The reason I ended up back here is for her, but I was kind of looking to get out of LA anyway. And so I bought this house sight unseen, even though I thought it was fine, because you know, I know that area, it's fine. And

I moved here the week that my memoir about growing up here came out, which is a truly- You couldn't have timed it better or worse. Oh, like a sociopathic move.

For sure. Like a boldly sociopathic move. So I show up and I'm unpacking and then my book comes out. And I wrote this memoir about how hard it was for me to grow up here, being a weird person and a black woman. And like, it was just very difficult to grow up in this white farm town.

So within three weeks of being back, a family friend who I also write about in the book because she was my boss when I worked at a convent as a teenager. She's been my family friend for over 30 years. And she kind of sat down on the couch and tucked in and was like, so I heard something about you. Oh!

And I'm thinking like, oh, from my dumb family. Like, what are you talking about? From the idiots I'm related to? Like, who would talk about that? I just got here. You can't trust them. Right? Yeah.

And she said, I heard from you and she is in the healthcare industry. Okay. And a few towns over is where the big hospital is. Oh, no. And someone that I went to high school with and graduated with will call her Lana. That is my go-to name for everyone in my life that has been rude to me when I was a child. Okay.

So Lana, I graduated high school with them. I was not their friend. They were, you know, very dismissive of me as a child. Now they work in this hospital that's a few towns away from where I currently live. And my family friend also works in this hospital. She said, so Lana told me that she heard that your mother is so upset about your memoir that

That she's planning to sue you. And she is telling everyone that your book is a lie. And she just went on and on and on. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I just moved back here two weeks ago.

Yeah, like if my mother is suing me, I've yet to be served. So also she can sue me. It doesn't mean she's going to win. Right. A lot of people are very litigious with no basis for it at all. And at that point that my book came out, I did actually know because my brother told me again, inter-family gossip.

I gave my mom a copy of my book when I moved back, and I hadn't heard anything from her for weeks. And I thought maybe she'd read it and be proud of me, but that clearly was not the case. So my brother – Very optimistic. Again, totally sociopathic moves here. Yeah.

And so I text my brother and I'm like, do you think mom has read my book? And like, can you ask her? Because I can't ask her directly. And he's like, yeah. So he asks my mom, oh, hey, have you read Danny's book? It's so great. Like, I really loved it. And she writes back, I have nothing to say. And I have no comment. And that's all I will say about that.

So now this gossip is like being confirmed by the fact that my mom is pissed off clearly about this. There's something like truly chef's kiss to me about being like, my daughter wrote 80,000 words about our life. And then she has asked me for my opinion on it. And what I'm going to do is tell literally everyone except her how I feel. What?

Ma'am, how do you think we got here? Yes. Where do you think the basis of this story begins? This is my origin story, lady. You have to recognize that. And it's also wild to me in a gossipy sense that the gossip I heard about myself could have been true, but there was no way for me to even confirm it. Confirm if it was true or not. Because I wasn't speaking to my mother at that point. You're like, hang on. It's unclear to me if this rumor is substantiated.

And it's also completely in line with her personality that that is something she would do. So I didn't know even how to respond. I'm like, well, I haven't heard anything yet. But if she sues me, I'll let you know and you can let Lana know. Yeah, that's so kind of you to keep Lana in the loop. Yeah.

The hospital, there's no HIPAA there. No HIPAA. No HIPAA for gossip at all. And I was just, I was really shocking because I think I've lived a low key. I'm a pretty low key person and I try to live in a way that I'm never the center of gossip. Yes.

But even though I like to receive gossip, I don't want to be gossip. And so it was really jarring to be like, I'm just moving back into the middle of nowhere and everything will be cool and calm. And then within a week, it's like, bam, no, we're back to high school gossip territory. Especially because you got this like lovely house, which I know has been a little saga renovating it. But like...

The whole, like, branding of your move from L.A. was like, I'm returning to the woods. I will be calm and happy. And then they're like, welcome back, Danielle. Is your mother suing you? Welcome back. So you hated growing up here? What about this? That I think you are going to really have some fun today with this special story. Rona Barrett Jr. is ready to go. ♪

Hey, it's Alex, and this episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Let's run there. Stay tuned after the episode for a little peek into my first run in a while. So our story today was sent to us by a friend of a friend about her parents, which means that today we shall be traveling back in time. Danielle, please brace yourself to the 80s. Oh, I love an intergenerational gossip story. So let's say it's

Sierra of Ray-Ban sunglasses, of shoulder pads, of those exercise leotards that are made of neon colors. Everyone is talking about this huge movie that was released last month called Top Gun. The number one song in the country is Whitney Houston's Greatest Love of All. Classic song. Oh, I lived it, loved it. I performed the Greatest Love of All at my third grade class.

Like that dumb thing they do at the end of the year. Also ambitious. Oh, yeah. Awful. Also awful. Also, I cannot sing. But I lived this era and I am aware I'm having flashbacks. I'm having PTSD. I'm ready to go. I'm there. Beautiful. Okay. Our protagonist today, we'll call her Lisa, is extremely aware that Greatest Love of

Ball is a massive hit because she is working this summer as a cashier at a big box grocery store. And you know how it is when you work retail. The only station that plays is a top 40 station. And really, it's only like 10 songs that are in the top 10 and they just repeat. But

But Lisa is fine with this because she loves Greatest Love of All. And because she doesn't really know what it's about, what she knows is that she thinks she has found her greatest love of all. And his name is Michael. Aww. So cute. This is sweet so far. Yeah, for now. What does Michael do? I'm already ready. Michael also works at the grocery store because he's an artist.

He works in the back where everyone moves heavy things and they use this forklift. And Lisa heard a rumor that Michael was supposed to quit the week that she started, but he stayed because a co-worker told him that they had to meet. See, this is already making me mad because you don't have to stay at a job that you do not like to perform in order to, you can just go back to the store and say, hey, do you want to go out? Danielle, no, you can't. Don't be crazy. But

But you're right. This is the 80s. Everyone was on cocaine. Nobody had any idea what they were doing. What if you never saw her again? You can't find her Instagram. It's not like she lives there. It's not like she works there. It's not like she works at the grocery store every day. It's fine. Okay. So they meet in the break room, her first week at the grocery store, and they fall in love fast. They're spending all this time together. They're smooching on breaks. Lisa is telling him about how hard it is to save her money after she pays her rent, even though she really wants to live alone. My

Michael is telling her about how his relationship with his parents has gotten like really weird recently. One day in July, he invites Lisa over to his parents' house to meet them. They've been together for two months. Already. See, again, already. I'm like, why? Why do you have to meet the parents after two months? Let it breathe. Give it a couple years. At this point and in this day and age, I'm not meeting a parent until it's like a funeral or something like an event. Yeah.

Like, give me an event. Until forced into proximity. 100%. Yeah, like, it's a choice. But Lisa goes and she has a great time. She's, like, kind of shell-shocked, though, because Michael's family has significantly more money than hers. Oh!

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kimberly, David, and Michael are all like talking about high school gossip and about this like upcoming trip to Aruba. And Lisa is feeling a little left out. Yeah, naturally. I've been there. You don't have enough money to travel across town, let alone to another, to a vacation destination. Exactly. So, but Michael, to his credit, is like aware that she's being left out and is trying to include her in the conversation. Is he being like, we go to Aruba every year. What do you think about that? Yeah, totally.

No, I think he's being like genuine, but I'm not sure. I wasn't there. On the whole, though, she has a good time. But the next week at work, Michael comes up to her and he's like, I'm so excited. My parents loved you. Everyone loved you. My parents really wanted me to come ask you if you'd like to go to Aruba with us.

Okay. See, this is also where I'm already suspicious because secret wealth artist already puts my back teeth on edge. Like I'm already on edge. And now the secret wealth that I can access artists, like I can access it when I want to. Like, okay, so are you just pretending to work at a grocery store and be poor? Because I'm actually working at a grocery store and poor. So how am I fitting into this dynamic? I'm already, look,

I'm already not on Michael's side. I know something is coming. I cannot wait. Okay, but also you have the prospect of Aruba. Would you like to go? Do you think she should go? I mean...

Have you ever, it's very strange to be the friend on the family vacation. Have you ever done that? No, I have not. It sounds bad. It's a little bit weird because you're like, all right, there's so many family dynamics at work that I don't understand. And now we're going to be moving, I'm moving myself to a place where I don't have any of my own creature comfort. So if stuff starts popping off, I can't leave. Yeah.

True. Very, very strange to be like the girlfriend, the friend, the extra non-family person on a family vacation. Having said that, when else am I going to go to Aruba? Come on. Of course I'm going.

Lisa does not have any of these hesitations. Lisa is like, she's like, y'all heard of jet skis? Like, I want to go to the fucking beach. She's like, this seems fun. They're going to have like a condo or a beach house or something. And like, I want in. This helps because Lisa is basically Danny McBride in Eastbound and Down. Yes. Yes. Excellent. And she's like,

She is, though, like, Michael, I just want to be clear, like, I don't have any money. Like, I cannot afford to go to Aruba. And Michael is like, no, no, no, no, no. It's my parents' thing. They pay for everyone. The only thing you need money for is, like, if you want to buy a souvenir or something. And he's like, please come. Please do not make me go alone with my parents and my brother and my brother's long-term girlfriend. And Lisa's like, hell yeah. I would love to go.

She decides to go, but she limits herself to buying one new swimsuit that is appropriate for people's parents to see. Smart. She puts $200, though, from her savings into her bag, one, because she might, like, need some extra spending money, but really because she knows that there is a store in

that she will pass through on the connecting flight that has a cashmere sweater that she has wanted for years. Oh, see, the 80s were such a simple time. I know. It's so beautiful. I went to the bank to get cash because I don't have an ATM card. I have to ask people where these stores are. Very simple. I love it. She's like, this is going to be perfect. You know, I'll go. And if I don't buy any souvenirs, I'll have my $200. I can get my cashmere sweater on the way back.

Everything is coming up Lisa, right? She's thrilled. The night before they leave, Michael calls her and is like, we've got a problem. His parents have sat him down and they have told him that they are not happy with how his life is going. At first he thought they meant like it's because he works at the grocery store, right? And he's like, that could be the problem. But it turns out his parents think he's doing drugs.

Oh, damn, Michael. What have you been telegraphing to your family? Okay. Okay. Wait. So the reason they think this is because this is something you and I are unfamiliar with, but apparently is a concept in some families. In this family, they have a money bowl. Okay. What? Wait, I'm going to get there. So like in most families, like you have a fruit bowl or like a key bowl, right? Like a bowl where there's just like stuff in it.

This family has like a cash bowl in the kitchen because it's the 80s. And it's like, if you don't need the cash in your wallet, put it in this bowl so that other people in the family can take the cash when they leave.

This is so shocking to me. Yes. This is possibly going to be, and I don't even know what's going to happen. This will be the most shocking part of this story. Guaranteed. I cannot explain this. I have no experience with the cash bowl. I mean, it sounds sick. I would love to have access to one, but. But also what are the strings that come with a cash bowl? Because now if you're putting your money into a general pot of

Then your family can monitor every move you make with it. This is what I always tell my nieces. Make your own money and nobody can tell you what to do with it. Exactly. Okay, so that's exactly what's happened here is that Michael's parents have never like kept a close eye on the money bowl because they've had so much disposable income that they don't like really need to. This is the whitest story I've ever heard also. Continue. But the reason –

that they are now aware of it is because the money bowl keeps being empty. Like it's just empty all the time now. And they're like, this is so weird. And Michael, the horror smokes pot and his parents can smell the pot. So they assume that Michael is stealing the cash bowl money for his marijuana habit. Okay. The parents need to get hip to the fact that pot in the eighties is cheap.

This is 1986, Danielle. This is like school specials. They're like, our son could die. He's going to throw himself out of a window because of pot. Exactly. And pot is just not expensive enough to use your parents' entire cash bowl all the time. Also, I feel like Michael, if he's smart enough to say, I want to stay at a job to meet a girl, he's smart enough to say, I'm not going to use my family's money bowl to buy drugs. Exactly.

Exactly. Lisa, because she's like safety first, is like, well, are you stealing the money from your parents' money bowl in order to buy a pot? And Michael is like, no, like, why would I do that? That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard. And Lisa's like, OK, yeah, that seems fair. I believe you. What do you want to do in this scenario? Anything? As Lisa, I want to confirm whether or not it's still cool that we're going on this vacation if your family is mad at you.

And if they're accusing you of being a drug addict, do we want to go and spend any prolonged amount of time with them? Or can we just bounce now and I'll find another way to get my cashmere sweater? Incredible. So you are exactly aligned with Lisa. Lisa is like, wait, so what's up with Aruba? And Michael's like, the thing is, I'm not stealing their money. We can't figure this out right now. We're leaving for Aruba tomorrow. Like, let's just go.

See, this is Michael. I'm learning so much about the family Michael grew up in that that is his response. Like, eh, it'll blow over and be fine. Absolutely not. Your parents accuse you of being a drug addict and stealing from them and you're going to hop on a plane and go to another damn country? Michael?

It's time to get wise. This will not end well for anyone. But Danielle Lisa wants to go on a jet ski. So she's like, who cares? She's like, this seems kind of weird and kind of bad. And I feel bad for this guy I have a crush on. But like,

I do still want to go to Aruba and I want to get my cashmere sweater. So like, I appreciate that. I appreciate that about her. I mean, you can't plan to just hop on a jet ski when you're working 40 hours a week in a grocery store. You absolutely cannot. You are so tired. Your legs would not allow you to stay on a jet ski. No, your feet are worn out. You need the Aruba-ness of it. They're going to Aruba. Aruba.

You know, we do ads for Rocket Money pretty consistently every month. You would think by now I would have canceled every subscription that I don't use. But guess what? I haven't. Rocket Money reminded me recently that I was subscribed to something I didn't even know I was subscribed to. But it's because it was like an annual subscription. I unsubscribed. And by I, I mean Rocket Money unsubscribed for me. Alex, is this relatable to you?

It is so relatable to me. I would like never check my bank account unless I really, really have to because it gives me so much anxiety. And is there a reason that you check your bank account now? Yeah, I get these awesome emails from Rocket Money that are like, hey, FYI, this is how much you spent last week. And it feels like a gentle person holding my hand as I go to my bank account. Oh, yeah.

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Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash gossip. That's rocketmoney.com slash gossip. Rocketmoney.com slash gossip. Oh my God, Alex, remember the week that you moved to a completely different state and then also at the same time we had a company retreat that was in New York City? Yeah.

That was not my strongest planning moment in my entire life. Well, it's a hard moment to plan for because you're like living in four different places, basically. One thing that I did plan really well, though, was that I ordered a factor box for the day after I came back from New York. What's a factor box?

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That's code NORMALGOSSIP50 at factormeals.com slash NORMALGOSSIP50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. Next morning, Lisa shows up at Michael's house to carpool to the airport and Kimberly is there with this tiny little dog.

And she is explaining to Michael's paternal grandparents that the dog must be fed a very specific kind of food while she is gone. Oh, that dog didn't die. No, no. Nothing bad happens to dogs on this podcast. That dog's gonna die. Paternal grandparents do not treat dogs the way that we treat dogs. They're like, it is a dog. It will live outside. It will eat birds and whatever the hell it can find and forage.

We're not giving this dog medicine. No grandparent has ever held an eyedropper full of anything for a pet. Okay. Lisa, though, is like kind of on the grandparent side in that Kimberly is being like ridiculous, right? She's like, here's all these things about this dog. And Lisa's like, this dog looks fine. Like, what are you talking about? Lisa's like, I like dogs, but like, I don't think you need to go into this like level thing.

for your boyfriend's grandparents to watch the dog. Like, why don't you just accept the favor and move on? Right. So she's being a little judgmental in her head. Well, yeah, because Kimberly's fully doing like a mommy dead and dearest with her dog. Like a munch house in my proxy with her dog. Exactly. Okay. So they get into the car. Lisa and Michael are in the car.

Kimberly and David are like not in the car yet. And it's because they're like standing on the sidewalk smooching. And Lisa is like, this is just a lot. Like I'm the one in the new relationship. Like why must they be smooching? But it turns out the reason they're smooching is because David is not coming on this trip. Oh, this family. He has to stay and study for the MCAT.

So he's actually going back to his apartment to study for the week. Kimberly finally like climbs into the car and Lisa notices that they have the same bag. And she's like, oh my God, this is so cute. Because Lisa, a few months ago, saved up her money because she was like, I want to buy something nice for myself. Similarly to the cashmere sweater problem. And what she bought was a single Chanel lipstick. Nice. I like Lisa. She's very frugal.

Yeah, so she'd wanted this lipstick for years, right? Like she saved up to get the lipstick. She bought it at like a little department store counter. And because it was like a fancy lipstick, it came with a little purse that was small but has like a lot of organizational potential. And she's like, oh my God, this purse is so cute. So she carried it with her on this little trip. And she's like, it's so adorable that me and Kimberly have the same bag. We can probably bond over it. She's like, Kimberly, yeah.

Did you also buy the lipstick and get this bag? And Kimberly's like, what? And Lisa's like, I got this bag when I bought a lipstick. And Kimberly's like, uh, no, I bought this bag a couple of seasons ago, actually. Kimberly is the shadiest character right now.

I am just going to throw this out there. Kimberly is the weirdest one of all, because who goes on a family vacation when the person that you're connected to in the family is not there? Really beyond me also. And look, the free gift with purchase is a standard thing. So usually you cannot get those bags in any other way. They're not just like a retail bag that you get. Right.

You get it because of the thing you purchased. I think Kimberly is a thief. I think she stole the bag. I think she stole the money. I cannot wait to hear how this story goes because I'm already shaky on Kimberly. Lisa is like not mad about this. She's like, I love my little bag.

She's like, I brought this bag because it's so cute and I'm obsessed with it. And also because it has like a little hidden zipper in the lining so I could put my cash there. And like everything is nice about this. I'm obsessed with this bag. They arrive in Aruba. It's beautiful. The sand is soft. The water is so blue. It's Lisa and Michael, Kimberly, Michael's parents, and

Michael's maternal grandmother and Michael's maternal grandmother's very close friend, Dot. Oh, yes, Grandma. I love it.

and the 80s were amazing they're just roommates yeah they're just they're just two just two roommates two best friends on our family vacation what could they be doing for the last 50 years she's been on every family vacation that's just dot our grandma's friend incredible oh i hope the story veers hard in the grandma direction okay the first day they go to the ocean

And Lisa is immediately like, this is the best day of my life. I'm obsessed. I love Aruba. This is great. I'm going to have like a little margarita on the beach. Everything is great. I love it here. And she's also like jealous of Kimberly, right? Things are starting to like turn a little bit. Kimberly has like legs as long as the Mississippi river. She has no tan lines. She already seems like she's like,

part of this family that Lisa is still trying to impress as you predicted earlier Kimberly and Michael's dad have like a special meal that they cook every year when they're in Aruba where like he does the meats and she does the sides Kimberly and Michael's mom like get up early and go shopping they invite Lisa but there's like an awkwardness there

I feel bad for Lisa because Kimberly is working this family. Yes. And Kimberly is just like at home in her body the way that extremely thin and tall women are. And Lisa is just like full, just like brimming with envy. Here's an important thing to note. Lisa and Michael are not allowed to sleep in the same bed on this trip. I knew that was coming. Oh my God. Tell me she's rooming with Kimberly. She's sleeping in a queen bed with Kimberly.

The injustice. This is why you don't go on vacations with other people's families because they have weird rules that come out of nowhere. And you're like, it's 1986. Could we maybe sleep in the same bed without being married? And the family's not having it. And now you're stuck in Aruba forever.

farting next to some woman you just met who you're jealous of. Yes. Oh, I knew it. So that's the dynamic. But Lisa is still like, this is great. Like, is it annoying? Sure. But also I'm in Aruba for free. Yes. Whatever. That evening after dinner, Dot comes out of her room and she's like, has anyone seen my ring? Yeah.

She's missing like an old ruby ring. She took it off to go down to the beach and now she cannot find it. And Lisa is like looking across the table at Michael with her eyes like this, like wide open. And Michael's parents are looking at Michael because they think that he is a thief. And they are like, you have stolen this ruby ring for your illicit weed usage. Yeah.

I mean, this is where parents are too paranoid because they feel like, let's use some logic here. I'm a thief. I'm Michael. I'm a drug addicted thief. I'm in Aruba. And somehow I already have the connects I need to pawn a ring and buy drugs within the six hours since we landed here.

Kimberly swallowed that ring. I'm just saying. You know how these drug dealers are, Danielle. They know everyone connected to every shady character. They met him at the airport. Like what? Parents, come on. Come on, mom and dad.

Michael is like frantically trying to save his ass, right? He's like, where did you put it? Did you take it off in the bathroom? Could you have forgotten and taken it down to the beach? Are you sure? Can I come and help you? Can I do like, what if it went over here? Like, could you have taken it off when you were doing the dishes? Right? Like he's really, he's really trying. Meanwhile, Kimberly's just smoking a Capri like, hmm. Meanwhile, Michael's parents are like, well, the cleaning staff did come in here earlier. Yeah.

This is some white Lotus shit. Continue. And dot is like, okay, I don't think the cleaning staff stole my Ruby ring. I'm sure it will turn up. Everyone chill out. Job bless dot. Yeah. Thank you. The mom and dad are not chill enough at all. Thank you to dot grandma's close friend. But the next day, grandma is missing a watch. Oh,

So now everyone is like feeling a little weird. Lisa is like out on the beach. You know, she's covered in baby oil. She's like, I cannot be bothered by whatever's going on in this whack family. She's like, just bring me another tab and gas up the jet ski. I've got plans and my plans are this. I don't want to be with, I'll be out in the ocean all day burning myself to a crisp rather than deal with this family's drama. Yes.

So she's out there. Most of the family is like on the porch or inside. And Kimberly comes up later and she's like, oh, my God, things are like super weird. Right. Do you want to just go grab a drink, the two of us and like bail on this? And Lisa's like, you know what? Yes. Yeah, I do. She's like, let me just go grab my bag. Right. So they're like walking with their little bags. They walk to the little bar in the hotel and Lisa is like feeling relaxed. She's having a daiquiri. We're having fun.

It becomes clear pretty quickly that Kimberly's whole mission here is to find out if Michael stole stuff. No, I don't. I don't appreciate that. She's like, I know you don't know him super well, but like if he is the one stealing stuff, like it's really not OK. Right. And so they're having this like heart to heart.

Lisa starts off confident. She's like, absolutely not. He's not stealing anything. But Kimberly has like years of experience with this family. And so as Kimberly is talking, Lisa's becoming less and less confident. Right. And is Lisa asking questions like, what do you know about Michael? Exactly. And so Kimberly is like filling her in on all of these details that like don't make her boyfriend look great. Yeah.

I don't know what those details were because they were not provided to me. But I know that by the time they finished their drink, Lisa is like, it is highly probable that Michael is stealing this shit. See, this is how scammers get you. They deflect. So the check comes and Kimberly's like, we should pay for this and not put it on the room. And Lisa's like,

This is not in my financial plans for this trip. I came here specifically to put drinks on the bill of the room. Yeah, Lisa's like they brought the tab and it has that little line where you write the room number. Like, why would I not just write the room number?

I love whenever I've been on a vacation and I've been able to do that. I feel like I'm living someone else's life for a moment. And then when you go to check out and they're like, P.S., here are all your room charges. And you're like, holy fuck. Reality hits hard, but it doesn't have to hit Lisa because she's not going to get that bill. So let her have her daiquiri on the room. Exactly. But Kimberly is like, well, they're not here. And like, we have this drink by ourselves. So like,

We should pay for it, which like I think is also a reasonable argument. Like both of these seem fine to me.

Lisa like unzips her little secret pocket and pulls out her bills. And Kimberly's like, whoa, money bags. Because she sees the like stack of bills. And Lisa is like, I'm going to murder this woman. Like she's beautiful. She has way more money than me. She's demeaning me about my sad stack of cash. I have for my cashmere sweater. Like I hate this bitch. And I have to go and curl up next to her to go to sleep. Exactly. And they like go back to their hotel room.

And even though she's like, God, Kimberly is so annoying. I cannot believe I have to like have her elbow in the middle of my spine all night. She's also like the shit she said makes sense. So she's like sitting across the table from Michael, just like with her eyes narrowed, like trying to size him up. She has legitimate reasons to be concerned. What do you think she should do in this situation? I think she should pull Michael aside and say, look,

Kimberly is up to some fuck shit. She's trying to drive some wedges. What?

She's trying to drive some wedges. She has revealed some information to me that I do not know whether or not it's true because I've only just met you. So maybe you can tell me, even if Lisa's not comfortable saying, did these specific things happen? I feel like she should at least be asking Michael at this point, what is your relationship with your family that they would think this about you? And how are you feeling about it? And is there a way that you can kind of nip this in the bud so that we can continue on this vacation and have fun?

fun because I asked you about this earlier before we even came I asked you if this was going to be a problem so now I would need to know so much more about how Michael is viewed within his own family to get to the bottom of this and also to kind of again plant the seed I would straight up tell him that Kimberly's the one who said this to me okay Lisa's not as thoughtful as you are about this and I say this now it's like a middle-aged woman who's been through some shit and

In Lisa's position, I probably would just focus it on Michael. Yes. So that's what she does. She sneaks out of her and Kimberly's room and like into Michael's room. And she's like, Michael, I need to talk to you. And so Michael like wakes up and she essentially is like, I need you to reassure me that you didn't steal these things. Like, I believe you. But like, things are being stolen. Your family doesn't believe you. Kimberly is like talking mad shit. And I don't know what to believe. Yeah.

And Michael is like, I don't really know how to defend myself against like baseless claims. But he's like, you've seen my wardrobe and my apartment. Like if I had money, it would look different. Yeah.

And Lisa's like, yeah, that is a good point, right? Like, you would have better clothes if you were stealing money from your parents. He's like, I would have gone down to the Chess King for sure. I would not have just spent all of his money on oil paints. I would have gone to the Levi's store.

Exactly. Like, oh, poor Michael. Poor Michael. I know. Because now his family thinks he's a criminal. His girlfriend's asking to confirm it. And he has no, he just wants to be on vacation with this girl he liked enough to stay at a grocery store job. I know. Michael's like the love of my life. I brought her to Aruba. Why can't I have fun? Why can't I have one nice thing? I know. The next day, things go fine.

Lisa believes him. They go to like a butterfly garden arboretum. Sounds great. They go out to dinner. But like things are still a little weird because Lisa has accused Michael of stealing things. So obviously it's a little weird. After dinner, Kimberly comes out of her room and is like, I'm missing a necklace that David stole for me. Okay, what? I still think it's her. I think now she's trying to deflect even further.

By pretending that one of her things is missing. What if she planted it? Okay, I hate this room sharing situation. She's going to plant it on Lisa. Oh, I can't take this. Lisa is like, fuck, because now she's panicking because she knows that Michael, she really believes that Michael's not stealing it.

And she also knows that Michael would not steal a necklace that his brother got for Kimberly. Yes. There's no – look, Michael – I'm backtracking on Michael a little bit. He seems smart. He seems dedicated. He would not make such a rookie mistake. Yes. And Lisa is like –

I know that he doesn't need that kind of money and his family knows that too. And the only person here with six siblings and a cheap swimsuit is me. So I am extremely concerned that all of these eyes are about to turn on me. So she's freaking out, right? She's like panicking.

And she's like, please excuse me. And she goes out onto the little patio to like take some deep breaths. I feel so bad for her because now this family is just leapfrogging between her and Michael. Like you both suck and you both could be criminals. Oh, poor Lisa. Michael comes running after her and he's like,

What is happening? Why are you having a panic attack? And Lisa's like, well, I'm afraid that your family is going to assume that I did this. And Michael is like, nobody thinks that you did this. They think that I did this. They are convinced that I am like some kind of druggy criminal. This doesn't have anything to do with you. And Lisa's like, yeah, but why would you do that? You don't need the money. You didn't do it. Like, I do need the money.

And Michael's like, yeah, but you also didn't do it. Right. So they're having this, like, stressful conversation. As they are having this heated conversation, out onto the balcony waltzes Dot. Dot is wearing one of those long, flowy shirts that, like, drag on the ground. She's holding a glass of white wine, but it's filled with ice. She sits down across from Michael and Lisa, and she leans back in her chair, and she sips her wine, and she says...

I think that Kimberly girl is stealing shit. Dot, you hero. Lisa is like, no, Kimberly is lovely. Kimberly rides horses. Kimberly doesn't need to steal anything because she has plenty of money. Right, Michael? See, but this is the fallacy.

They're assuming, this whole family is assuming that theft only occurs for the benefit of trading for money. Some people are just kleptomaniacs. They just steal for the thrill of it. There's no money involved. Ooh, Dot is on the case. These young kids, though, they are blinded by this. And Michael's like, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Her parents are rich. My brother is going to be a doctor. There's no reason for her to steal this. And Dot is like, well...

If I were staying in the same room as her, I would just check and see if she was hiding anything. I love Dot. Dot's like, I'm putting you on the case. Like, I have my own theories that I will enact through you. Yes. What would you like to do now? I would like to run screaming into the ocean and hope I get eaten by a shark. Poor Lisa. Poor Michael.

I wish they could just swim home. But I think she has to check this out because now Lisa is so Lisa is concerned that both she and Michael have been under suspicion or are going to be under suspicion by this family. And that's trying to give her a lifeline and say, well, you know, if you really want to save your own ass, I think it's Kimberly. So maybe you should check it out. I think Lisa should check it out. But now here is the fuck part.

If Lisa gets caught going through Kimberly's stuff, it's going to compound things for her. Oh, Lisa, do it anyway. Do it and then say, explain why and just cross your fingers and light some sage. Just do it. Go through her stuff. Okay, so all night Lisa's awake, right? She's like Kimberly snoring next to her. Lisa's like staring at the ceiling. She's like going through the exact same thing that you just said, right? Like,

If I get caught looking through Kimberly's stuff, it will be clear that I have done it. If I do nothing, it could also still be clear that I have done it. Miserable. I would take the bag. I would take Kimberly's stuff to Dot's room and check it out there and then make Dot. Danielle's like, Dot said I could. Dot sanctioned this. Grandma's best friend, Dot, said I could do this.

I respect my elders. And she wanted to go through your shit. So here we are, Kimberly. Okay. It's morning. It's our last day in Aruba. Lisa has had her restless sleep. Everyone gets up and they go to the ocean. Right? They're all going out to the beach because it's their last day. And Lisa sleeps in because she was up all night. Yeah. She wakes up and she's like, hmm.

She's like, I'm feeling really unhappy about what's been happening here. And I also have just remembered about my $200 cash. So she goes to her little bag and she unzips the secret pocket and her cash is gone. Okay. No one else knows about that secret compartment. Except for Kimberly, who has the same bag. Exactly. Exactly.

So Lisa is like, ding, ding, ding. Now I fucking know it's her, right? Like now I'm not working off some assumption of dots. I know that it was Kimberly. Yes. So she goes straight over across the room to Kimberly's back. She unzips the pocket and there it is. It's her money. It's the jewelry. It's a few other things that no one even noticed were missing. Oh my gosh. Lisa is like...

I have watched enough television to know that you do not disturb evidence. She re-zips the bag. Dot and Michael are eating breakfast. So she goes to where they're eating breakfast. And she's like, Dot, I have found everything. You were right. It's all in Kimberly's bag. And Dot is like, great. Let's tell Michael's parents. Dot is a chaos demon. And I love her.

But now we're facing another problem. They're going to probably say, well, Lisa, you were in the room alone. You could have just put the stuff in Kimberly's bag. I am jumping ahead so far because I just want Lisa to get justice. But Dot, I love. I love the chaos of Dot. I love the approach. I love how excited she is to tell these parents. And that's what you should do. Tell the parents.

Lisa is like, no, we are not telling Michael's parents because one, this is about clearing Michael's name and clearing my name. I don't want Michael's parents to have the excuse of like, well, why was Lisa looking through her stuff in the first place? Right. Lisa's like, what I want to do is for the three of us to simply confront her when she returns. Right.

Okay, I can get there. Lisa's got management material written all over her. I'm into this. Kimberly comes back. She goes straight to their room. She takes a shower. When she's done changing, Lisa and Michael confront her. And they're like, we know it's you. And Lisa explains what she saw. And Kimberly's like, what? I didn't steal anything. What are you talking about? And she shows them her bag and its pocket is empty. Okay, now I don't know what to think.

Oh my goodness. Okay. I don't know what to think. In the meantime, Dot, a chaos agent, has told grandma. She's told Michael's parents. So the tension is high. Dot's like, yeah, yeah, sure, Lisa. We won't tell anybody. P.S. I'm immediately going to tell everybody. Yes. Which also makes me think, was it Dot? Did Dot plant the stuff in Kimberly's stuff to deflect from her? Oh, God.

So now we have a confrontation. We have dot Michael's parents and Michael's grandma all in the living room. And Michael's mom is like, what's going on here? And Kimberly is like, what's going on is your son and his girlfriend are trying to frame me for stealing. I'm back on Kimberly. Lisa's like, no, I'm not. It's all in your back. You stole it. I know you did.

She goes into the bedroom. She returns with Kimberly's bag. She explains the hidden pocket to onlookers. She unzips it. Still nothing. You gotta check the rest of that bag. You gotta dump that bag out. I mean, she's looking, right? Like you are TSA. Dumped it. She's like, there's nothing in here. And Kimberly is like, see, there's nothing in my bag. Lisa is standing slack-jawed while Kimberly returns from the room with Lisa's bag.

Oh, this little motherfucker. She pulls Lisa's stuff out of it, unzips the lining, and there is all the jewelry and everything that's been stolen, except Lisa's cash, which is still missing. Oh, insult to injury! She probably figures like, hey, you could just sell this ruby ring and this weird necklace and get your $200 back.

Kimberly pulled a fast one. Kimberly is holding up Lisa's bag like see it was her. Lisa is looking at Dot panicked. Dot is just shaking her head. Lisa turns to Michael's parents and is on the verge of tears and she's like I would never steal from you or your family. Like I'm just grateful to be here. Like I would never do this. I know you don't know me very well but like it is not a thing that I would do.

But she's looking around trying to find a way to prove this. And the only thing she can focus on is the fact that Kimberly is holding her bag and all of the stolen things are in there, right? She's just like staring at Kimberly holding this bag. And she's like, how did this happen? How am I ever going to convince them that this wasn't me when she's standing there holding the evidence?

And she's just looking at this bag. She's looking at Kimberly and she's staring at it, just trying to like figure out a way out of this. And she realizes that it's not her bag. It's Kimberly's bag. Her bag does not have the Chanel logo on the bottom of it. It has a cream flat bottom. Her bag does not have a Chanel key chain.

What Kimberly is holding is a real Chanel bag, not a free lipstick bought gift Chanel bag. Oh, I knew it. Oh, I knew it. This is what happens when you buy real folks. You got to buy fake so you can always identify your own bag. Yes. Oh, I'm so thrilled. So Lisa is like, Kimberly, that's your bag. Yeah.

You just put my stuff in it. And she shows the parents the bottoms of the bags. And she's like, you know, in my bag, once I left my Chanel lipstick uncapped. And so there's a big red spot on the lining and she pulls the lining out. And sure enough, on hers, there's a big red spot. I don't want to deal with this. Kimberly says while she stalks off to her room and slams the door. Oh, I'm sorry. That's not how we deal with grand theft. Kimberly.

Michael's mom is like, oh my God, it all makes sense now. She's like, Kimberly has always lived in a big apartment downtown by herself, but she didn't ever have like a high paying job. I assumed her parents were paying for it, but it turns out

We were the ones paying for it because Kimberly has also been stealing all of the cash from the family cash bowl. Damn straight she has. I mean, how is that little dog having that special diet in 1986? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ooh.

Michael's parents are furious, right? Like flames in their eyes, furious. They apologize to Michael at dinner. It's like a terrible, tense 24 hours until their flight leaves back home. Kimberly has grifted them for thousands. This flight is going to be epically bad. On top of that, it's 1986. David, Kimberly's boyfriend of five years...

has not been answering his phone, and does not know. Oh, love this. Oh my god. So David has been unintentionally complicit-

And his girlfriend robbing his family. And he's just studying for the MCATs like his life is going to be fine. He's just going to be a pediatrician and fix some broken bones and do some little temperature checks every once in a while. Meanwhile, he's about to marry Alexis from Dynasty. And he has no clue. I love A Rude Awakening. I love a man whose life is about to be ruined. Yes.

I am so into this. They have to get on the flight in 12 hours, all of them. They have to make a connecting flight, all of them. And David doesn't know. Like, what are you...

What do they do? First, they got to get Dot as the organizer of whatever this plan is. Our queen, Dot. Queen Dot knows all. I think the parents should get into a car with Kimberly and drive directly to David's apartment. Basically, nobody from that family should leave Kimberly's side until they get in contact with David. Okay. This is like basically what they come up with. They're like, no confrontation, but Kimberly stays with us. Mm-hmm.

Right? That's the plan. Everyone has to play nice. It's a cold war. It's fine. Ooh, plus her dog is with the grandparents. So they've got ransom. Exactly. Ooh, I love this. Hold that dog. And they're like, the dog will be at our house. So Kimberly will come with us to our house where we can then demand David arrive. Right? Perfect. They got on the first plane. They land at their connecting airport. Lisa's like,

Somebody has a date with Kimberly. Kimberly's like trotting away. So Lisa like goes and catches up with her. Of course, where Kimberly is taking her is the little retail establishment with the cashmere sweater that Lisa wants. And so Lisa is just staring at the cashmere sweater and like petting it longingly. But now she has no money. And Kimberly is like, you love that so much. You should get it. And Lisa's like, I can't get it. I don't have any money.

thanks to you. And Kimberly's like, well, I could get it for you. No, we all know that when she says get it, she means steal it. Do you think she should let Kimberly buy or obtain this cashmere sweater for her? Absolutely not. For several reasons. One being you do not want to be Kimberly's ally in any way at this point.

You do not need this family thinking that you are in on it, that you're friends with her, that you are condoning her behavior. But also, you know she's going to steal it because she can't pay for a cashmere sweater with a ruby ring. This isn't like Indiana Jones. It's not how it works. Unless she's going to use your $200 to pay for the sweater that you want, which is also a reason to not let her do it.

Kimberly's trying to get her on her side. I don't like it. However, Lisa, I've been you. I've been poor. I've been on a family vacation. I've wanted things that I couldn't have. And if I'm not the one actually doing the crime. So Lisa arrives at the first conclusion you arrived at, which is like, I'm sorry.

Absolutely. I am not letting Kimberly buy this cashmere sweater for me. The person who called this in is Lisa's child in the future. And she is like still furious that Lisa did not allow Kimberly to buy this sweater for her. She's like, I've had to hear about this fucking cashmere sweater for 40 years. You should have let her buy it. Because it's not bought. And if it is bought, it's going to be bought with her money. Exactly. Yeah.

Or the cash bowl money. On the way back to their gate, Kimberly's like, I need to call someone. Lisa stands outside the little phone booth while she calls. They get on the plane. Lisa, they assume, right? They're like, oh, she's probably calling David, like, to give him a heads up that this is all about to crumble, right? When they land at the airport, the grandparents pick them up. And to everyone's surprise, Kimberly's little dog is in the back seat.

Because she made two calls in the phone booth. The first was to Michael's grandparents to tell them to bring her dog to the airport. She grabs the dog. She does not load her luggage into the car. She jogs maybe 20 feet and hops into the back of a Corvette convertible with some dude none of them have ever seen and is gone. Oh, wow.

I did not see that coming. She didn't call David. She called the grandparents to bring her dog and she called whoever this guy is and she disappeared. Kimberly is living her life like a Van Halen video and I cannot keep up with her. This is wild. We still have a problem. The problem is that David still does not know that any of this has happened. I forgot about

this madness oh poor david and david has to take the mcat in the morning oh he's not taking that mcat david i'm so sorry you tell him yes you tell him that he has been dating an international woman of mystery who has stolen from their family for five years hopped in a corvette and drove away that is like

Spy level shit. You don't get to take the MCAT after that. You get to deal with your family issues. There are major problems happening here. You don't know who she is. She could have a cartel. David's got to get his life together. Never mind the MCAT. The MCAT can wait. Oh, I would tell him instantly. He's got to know. So they did tell him and he failed the MCAT. What?

A piece of information that you may like about the present day is that David and Kimberly now live in the same city, but they have never run into each other. Where does she go after the Corvettes? Oh, this is a question I have for you is if you're the like daughter of this family,

Do you seek vengeance? Like there are so many more avenues for vengeance and revenge now. Oh, if I'm Michael should be the first one getting revenge. The first one. And did Michael and Lisa stay together? No.

Yes. Even though Lisa and Michael had only been dating for a little bit, when they went on this adventure, they dated for six more years. And then they got married. In fact, Lisa and Michael now have kids, and one of their children is the one that called in this story. He really was her greatest love of all. Oh my god!

This is the full circle moment that I live for on this podcast. Isn't that so beautiful? And since she was there at the inception of this revelation of crime, it is her duty as a daughter-in-law to say, how else you will never rise higher in the ranks of a family that you have married into than if you solve a crime on their behalf.

the second time they've met you. Yeah. Her esteem will never be, she will never be held in higher esteem. Yes, she did it. She cracked the case. Dot's probably dead. Rest in peace, Dot. Rest in peace, Dot. So she can't be part of this. But Lisa should absolutely, Lisa and Michael should tag team, be like, we're going to go visit David. Surprise. We're showing up to Kimberly's place. We're going to follow her, rent a Corvette and confront her. Pull up in her driveway. Yeah. Pull up in her driveway.

And confront her. I don't know what would they even say. If you're going to confront Kimberly all these years later, what would you even say? No idea. Like, I don't even know how you could play this. You could just be like the characters in Us and just like stand outside of her house holding scissors in a jumpsuit. Just be like, we see you, Kimberly. You're just using shaving cream to write on the lawn, where's our money? Oh!

Danielle, thank you so much for coming on the pod. It has been a joy to have you. Thank you for having me. This is my cardio for the day. I'm exhausted.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow me on all social media at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast is produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin. Defector's projects editor is Justin Ellis. Our editor-in-chief is Tom Leigh.

Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and remember, you did not hear this from me. Hey, it's Alex, and this episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Let's run there. Okay, just finished a run.

I recently restarted my couch to 5k program. I did this last year. Basically it like has you warm up and then walk for like a minute and then run for like a minute and over time it increases the amount of time that you're running and decreases the amount of time you're walking. It's a great way to like slowly build up your tolerance and your cardio health.

So it was definitely humbling to start back at like week one, day one. I've been like dealing with a lot of health things this year and the interesting thing about a lot of my health conditions is that they are exacerbated by stress. I get so frustrated because I'm like how am I supposed to manage my stress? Like I am better than I was in my 20s. Like what am I supposed to do that's different?

Um, but if I'm being honest with myself, I do exercise a lot, but I don't, I don't do a ton of like high impact cardio. You know, I walk a lot, um, which is great. Walking is so awesome. Um, but I also think there's something to pushing yourself a little bit, like getting a little bit out of breath. Um, back when I was much more of a runner, um,

I used to feel like by the time I started sweating on a run, I was like sweating my stress out. That's like what it felt like. So I was like, you know what? Why don't we just try again? So I feel good. I'm proud of myself and we're just going to keep going.

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