‘Can’t Hardly Wait’ With Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson
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The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. You can find Joanna Robinson on House of R with Mallory Rubin, my longtime friend. You can find the three of us on the Prestige TV podcast. We just broke down the season finale of White Lotus, which we have not seen yet as we're recording this podcast. I know. We're living in a bubble. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. They've been hiding the screeners from us. But Joanna's been in L.A.,

for how many weeks now? Six weeks. Six weeks. And you've done, I think, about 95 podcasts in those six weeks. And you thought I deserved a reward today. Yeah. So I said, we got to do rewatchables before you leave. Yeah. I sent you a list. And one of the two movies that you said was absolutely one of your all-timers was Can't Hardly Wait. And I was like, really interesting. Who says no? Who says no? I can't say no to that. So we're going to dive into Can't Hardly Wait next.

Their first night of freedom. He is the most dope guy in school. Yeah, and school's over. Was their last chance. Amanda? To say what they want. God, you're a hot... Hey, can I see you naked? Do what they feel. Maybe I should wear the hat. Listen here, hootie. Hootie! And be who they are. I wonder how William was doing at the party. I can't feel my legs. I can't feel my legs! Can't Hardly Wait. Played at PG-13. Opens everywhere June 12th.

Here's why I was really intrigued when you wanted to do this. It's kind of less about Can't Hardly Wait, which I think has become like a pretty big cult movie over the last 20. I mean, we even wrote about it for The Ringer once upon a time. The late 90s is such an interesting movie time.

And where it can hardly wait fits into that with just what was happening in Hollywood in general and then the movie and what it was trying to do and how rewatchable it became when it wasn't. I don't think anyone thought, well, this is amazing when it came out. And then it just kind of kept going and going and going. Yeah. And I'm not sure that happens anymore because I just think this is a Netflix series, though.

I don't even think this movie would exist. No, this movie doesn't exist. I think, yeah, the closest you get recently, and it's not even that recent, is Netflix American Vandal, that TV series they did, or something like Booksmart, you know? But this being as mainstream as it is, having the soundtrack that it does, having the roster of talent that it does...

we don't make this anymore at all. So why do you love it? Does this just hit you at the perfect time in your life? Yeah. Do you have a teen movie that's like exactly your micro... Oh, I have all the 80s. But like what's like your micro generation like exactly right if you had to pick one 80s teen movie? Probably Breakfast Club. Breakfast Club. Yeah. But I mean, Breakfast Club

Just one of the guys, Karate Kid, Secret of Byron, Can't Buy Me Love, Sixteen Candles. There's 20 of them. We had less channels back then. Well, the 80s teen movies can't be beat, but there's something about...

1998 can't hardly wait for a very specific, I think, micro-generation, which is my generation, which is the one between Millennials and Gen X, that gap generation, Generation Catalano, whatever, Generation Oregon Trail, whatever you want to call it. This is our teen movie. And...

I have, like, if you asked me, based on my friends in high school, everyone I knew, and how often they quoted this movie, I would have said this was the biggest movie of 1998. I'm not surprised. And it wasn't at all. But, like, that was what it felt like at the time for us. Well, it's the internet's forming, but not really yet. But the big thing for me is how influenced this was. And this whole era was influenced by those 80s movies. Yes.

This is like the sons and daughters of John Hughes. Yeah. And all of these other things. And they're just stealing different things that worked. Like this movie is basically, they're stealing Say Anything. That's what they said. Yeah, they admit it. They're like, we watched Say Anything and we're like, why isn't that big party? Why isn't that just the whole movie? They're stealing John Hughes stuff left and right. They're stealing from Secret Admirer. They're stealing from Can't Buy Me Love with the nerds. Like-

And it works. But making it just slightly tuned to the frequency of 1998. Yeah. But yeah, we're not reinventing the wheel with this movie at all. Except it's a weird bridge between those 80s movies, which were so about...

your social circles, right? You can't, if you're, unless you're like Lloyd Dobler, you can't move between social circles in the 80s unless you fall in love with someone and that's your way across to the popular kids or whatever it is. And then after this movie, Into the Odds, when you get movies like 21 Jump Street or Booksmart, the message is less like,

Hey, you're in a clique and you belong there. And usually when you get to these like big party scenes, super bad or something like that, it's about how we're all just teenagers and friends together figuring it out. Right. You know, and this is just right on the cusp of that when you get...

between the nerd and the jock at the end of the movie where they have this bonding moment. It's not about, can I get the popular girl? That is the spine of this movie. But it's about, we're all about to leave high school and none of this is going to mean anything anyway once we're gone. And also, I'm stuck in this role that I became in high school and this is basically my last night to break out of it. Yeah, exactly. If I don't like where I've been pigeonholed or positioned.

Can I get out of it this way? And you mentioned the aughts, like American Pie comes basically right after this movie. And we just go from like, we're down here to blowing up. And you watch this movie now and they talk about it in some of the research, like,

This should have started the R-rated high school comedy movie phase, and they kind of had it, and a lot of the stuff got cut out because it was still that attitude of, no, no, we need to get the kids to be in the theater. We need high school kids. And they didn't see the big picture, which American Pie saw, and that changed everything. Right. This was originally rated R, and they cut a bunch of drug use out. I can't wait to talk about all the stuff they cut. It's unbelievable. In order to make it tamer, and that, I think, neutered it a bit. But there is like...

something then quite sweet about it. The stuff they cut out sounds funny and fun, and we'll get to that, but this is just a very sweet movie at the end of the day, despite all the other things that happened and some of the stuff that is aged very poorly. But there's just a very...

innocent way about this movie. Yeah, it's one of those movies that just immediately was on for 15 straight years. And one of the reasons it was on for so long was it was so translatable to TBS, TNT. Totally. And in general, they didn't really have a lot to cut. There's a couple of bad words. There's no nudity. There's nothing... People being drunk, but you're not really seeing them. Because they were so careful about the PG-13. It just...

immediately moved into this 15-year run. Yeah, exactly. And everyone I knew had it on DVD. This was like a huge DVD sale. I have this in my collection movie. It's funny because I was watching and I got nostalgic for that era. You know, I was older. I was in my late 20s at that point. But I had my uncle's daughters who were all going to all of these movies and I went with them to a couple of them. And all of a sudden there was this boom. And we'll go backwards because...

You have Clueless and then you have Scream. Yeah. And Scream is what... Scream's the tipping point. Scream breaks Hollywood's brains. Microbudget makes over $100 million. Teen horror movie, but really a teen movie. And everybody goes and Hollywood's going, hmm. Yeah. So you have this generation raised on Hughes, Risky Business, Karate Kid, Can't Buy Me Lunch. Just all those movies. Now they're ready for their generation. You have the internet that's not the internet yet. You have high school kids...

still going to movies. Nobody's home online all the time because online really hasn't happened yet. So they're still like, what am I doing tonight? Where am I going? It's a big day thing. You also have network TV.

It's like this farm system of teen stars. Yeah. Because you have 90210, Party of Five, and Buffy. And the WBs coming up. Yeah. Dawson's Creek. Dawson's. So it's almost like the real world creating the feeder system for the challenge. Yeah, exactly. It's like, here's Katie Holmes. Throw her into disturbing behavior. Yeah, exactly. Hey, here's Jennifer Love Hewitt. You like her on Party of Five? Here she is. And so it's this little sweet spot, PG-13.

This is really when they figured out exactly how far they could go. And then you have Maxim Magazine. That era's there, where Jennifer Love Hewitt, whoever the best-looking girl in the movie, they were always in that world. And then the last thing was the pop music era.

For whatever reason. And the same thing happened in the 80s, in the mid-80s. The pop music just makes sense for movie soundtracks. Like these bands like Blink-182, like they're just like, they're just... Smash Mouth? Background music for movies. It's perfect. The soundtrack to this movie is insane. It's really... Just like banger after banger. It really feels like, it feels like 1998. Yeah, exactly. We talk about that sometimes on this pod about when music...

just makes perfect sense for when the movie came out. And this is one of those where it's like, of course. I was talking to a friend of mine in terms of that, that ramp up that you just mentioned clueless and scream to this. I was talking to a friend of mine who's just, yeah, just like two,

two, three years older than me. And she's like, oh, this isn't my movie at all. And I was like, what's your movie? She's like, Clueless, you know? And so there's just like, there's the Clueless and then there's American Pie. And this is just like in that weird gap between, I think. Because Hollywood was still trying in the late 80s, early 90s. It's just the movies weren't that good. But then like for, there's a certain generation kind of between me and you where like Adventures in Babysitting is their movie. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

And that's another, I mean, the movie that is just a teen party, there aren't as many as you would think there are, but they're all interesting to me. And then the One Crazy Night, which Adventures in Babysitting is, but like that One Crazy Night idea is always hits for me. I love that as a concept for a movie. One Crazy Night always works.

High school is about to be over. This is our last chance to change the perception of who we are. That always works. Somebody pining for somebody else. That was, I mean, that was basically 16 candles. That was the blueprint. Yeah. So this movie is just grabbing different little tiny things. The other thing, the teen movie boom we mentioned, it's really an amazing post-scream three years. I wrote down all the movies. I think I got all these. An American Pie was the biggest one, but you have, I know what you did last summer, one and two.

Halloween H20. Yes. Which they reinvent Halloween basically as a teen movie. Michelle Williams. Yeah. The Faculty. Yes. I got to say I'm embarrassed by how many I saw. I saw a lot of these in the theater, including The Faculty, including Disturbing Behavior. I love, you're like the only person who's ever talked about Disturbing Behavior. Disturbing Behavior is good. Yeah. I'll still defend it. Varsity Blues. Yes. Cruel Intentions. Yes. I think was one of the higher end ones. I'm throwing in Bring It On. Sure.

10 Things I Hate About You, She's All That, Drive Me Crazy. Yeah. I think we can count Never Been Kissed, even though it's Drew Barrymore going back to high school. Yeah. I'm going to sneak it in. Look at it, yeah. And then we have the weird ones, like Wild Things, Teaching Mrs. Tingle, Jawbreaker, Drop Dead Gorgeous. Yeah. And then But I'm a Cheerleader. So that's...

That's 20? Amazing. And those are on three years. It's an amazing time. What a time to be a teenager in America. And Hollywood's just like, more high school, more high school. Here's more money. What are we doing with the cast of 7-Even? Oh, it's a horror movie in high school? Great. Oh, wait. What about that fifth lead in Dawson's Creek? Can we get them in something? Kevin Williamson's just running the game between Dawson's and all of the Scream movies and teaching Mrs. Tingle and everything else that comes out. And I guess like, and then you have like the Skulls and movie like that that weren't necessarily high school movies, but were also dipping into the same teen pool. Because,

Joshua Jackson is in it, Pacey? Yeah. Anyway. The Dawson's Creek cast is in almost every single one of those movies that you mentioned. It became like Mad Libs mix and match. Yeah. Because Party of Five 2, Bailey never made it. No. Matthew Fox was too old. Bailey's in Go.

Right. But that's an adult movie. Lacey Chabert. What's her? Lacey Chabert? Chabert. Yeah. Mean Girls. She was too young, but then rose and became Mean Girls. That became the stunt casting for that. But J-Lo being in this movie was a big deal because she was a big deal on Party of Five. And she had just popped. And she signed this before she did I Know What You Did Last Summer. Which popped the movie. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

I forgot this because I was researching Jennifer Love Hewitt, who everybody had a crush on for probably four years. How she went by love? I forgot they spun off. Yes. Party of Five, where she had this whole spinoff show where she went to go find her birth parents. I think I blocked this out of my mind. Wait, did it have?

Time of your life. Time of your life. She went to New York City to find her birth parents. How is that a show? Who's the guy from 90210 who dated Donna who was the musician? Oh, Jamie Walters. Yeah, Jamie Walters. Is he in Time of Your Life? It sounds like that. It sounds like it adds up. That's true. Ray Pruitt with one T? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so she dated Carson Daly. She was just in that whole world. Had some tough career stuff.

Lost out on Romeo and Juliet to Claire Danes. Thank God. Lost out Broke Down Palace. Your favorite Claire Danes movie. She lost to Kate Beckinsale for that role. Oh, wow. Claire Danes and Jennifer Love Hewitt in Broke Down Palace? That's like the most 90s thing that's ever happened. Wow. But the problem is you were on those TV shows. You had no time to do anything else. In the research, Melissa Joan Hart

She's the crazy yearbook girl in this. And she had to film all her scenes late at night because she was also filming her... Sabrina, the teenage witch. All these people, they never had the time to branch out. That's what killed the 90210 cast too. Jennifer Love Hewitt was so big...

for such a concentrated period of time, there were just Coke commercials that were just Jennifer Love Hewitt. There was hair dye commercials that was just Jennifer Love Hewitt. It was just like, but it was such a flash. And I remember, do you remember, I don't know how much you watched Punk'd on MTV. Oh, yeah. But like, do you remember her episode of Punk'd?

where like the joke was she was going to be cast in a really cool movie. Like it was like when her career was slightly waning and they brought her into a casting office to talk to a producer. And they're like, here's this really cool prestige movie that we want to do. And they were trying to sort of freak her out by the premise of it. And at the end, it's one of the saddest punked reveals because she's like, oh, I'm not going to get to be in the cool movie, am I? Oh, no. I was like devastated. Well, the saddest one was just the Timberlake. Yes. Because I think he started crying. He did cry.

Jennifer Love Hewitt was interesting because she was really polarizing. Men liked her, and at least all the women I knew didn't like her. It made them mad that men liked her. Interesting. And so she became...

And this happens sometimes. Like didn't feel like a girl's girl to women. Yeah, you know, sometimes women are like, oh, she's so cute. I love her. And then other times, like, you like her. Interesting. And she just moved into that world for some reason. I would say out of... She had something. I would say the reason... Well, I mean, it's very clear what she has. But like, I would say...

Out of the Party 5 cast, there's like Neve Campbell, who's like the girl's girl. Like the girl's like Neve Campbell. And there's Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yeah. For the boys. Neve Campbell had a nice run too. She's another one. I mean, she started with Scream. Scream. They filmed this in October 97. Co-writer-director Harry Alphonse said, suddenly every place was open for business for teen movies. Students realized the audience was underserved. We had one. Tight budget. The whole thing. So the movie they have...

The dorks and the hot girls. Brainy cute guy. The girl, Lauren Ambrose's character, who's clearly going to be more successful than all these people down the road. The queen bee with no identity. Different kids stuck to whatever their shtick was that they can't get out of. The captain of the football team who can see the finish line and his psycho fan friends.

Class dork finally having fun for the first time. But then they have all these other really fun kind of cliche characters that they, some of them they ended up having to cut out, but like the girl who shouldn't have had the party. Yes.

And it's just going wrong. Like, we all know her. The over-the-top yearbook girl. The nerds getting revenge. The stone guys with the watermelon. Foreign exchange guy. The klepto. Stone girl staring at banana. Like, they're just hitting all these archetypes. And I think it was... And it works. What's so fun about this movie is that I think there's like six or seven characters who have actual names. And everyone else is like...

You've no idea who they are. It's like stoner guy, like in the cast list, it's like stoner guy, popular girl, klepto kid, like all of that. Yeah, what's Sarah Rue? Like knife girl? Earth girl. Earth girl. Yeah, exactly. Easily could have been knife girl. But you also had the cast of, it's about as 90s as it gets. Yeah. Seth Green, right around his apex. Ethan Embry. Well, I can't wait to talk about him. Peter Fassinelli, who ended up marrying Jenny Garth. Charlie Korsmo. I know. Complicated career. Huh.

Yeah. What about Bob Hook? Dick Tracy? Yeah, Dick Tracy. Stopped acting with MIT, came back for this in complicated circumstances, and then that's it. I don't think he acted really again. I still remember there was like a People Magazine article. It was like the return of Charlie Portsmoe. It was just sort of like, here he is. You remember him from Hook? Right. He's a teenager now. He's back. And then he was gone again. But he's great in this movie.

Lauren Ambrose, who became the most successful actor of the group. This is a Six Feet Under prequel. Yeah. You've got Freddy Rodriguez here. Eric Balfour's here. She's blowing people out of the water in all of her one-on-ones. Yeah. Melissa Joan Hart. Jamie Presley's in here. Mm-hmm. Cleve Duvall. And then we get crazy cameos. Jason Segel, Breckenmeyer, Donald Faison, Selma Blair, and Sarah Rue.

To name five. I love that you put Sarah Rue in that list. Jerry O'Connell. Jerry O'Connell. Because he'll be coming up later for Dion Waiters. Jenna Elfman. Jenna Elfman. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people in this. I mean, it's just like...

You've got Seth Green out of Buffy. You've got Jenna Elfman out of Dharma and Greg. Like, yeah, the sort of like this is TV, but make it a movie vibe is here. And I think what I loved when they talked about casting this film, they said they knew so many actors who played teenagers. They weren't all teenagers themselves. They were all in their 20s, but actors who could play teenagers. They knew so many of them who were out of work.

And so they just had all of them come in and read. They threw all their headshots on the floor and were just sort of like picking and choosing. And if you didn't make a lead role, they just stuck you in one of these side roles and everyone said yes to it. Debra Kaplan was dating Breckin Meyer at the time. Co-director, yeah. Right. So he just like brought...

brought all his friends over. Seth Green's here, you know, all that sort of stuff. And it's just like, and they all have other jobs. So it's like, yeah, I can do two days or I can show up on Thursday night and play stone guy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I like that era. Seth Green, you mentioned,

This is like one of the most late 90s things about this movie is the Seth Green character. Because I almost think five years later, it makes no sense. Five years earlier, it makes no sense. But this was like a type of person for five years here, for maybe like three years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's really funny. So good. And I was ready to, I went into it because I hadn't seen in a couple years being like, ah, he probably didn't age that well. And I was like, no, he's actually really funny. No, it's perfect. Because when Lauren Ambrose's character calls him out later for it and he drops it.

like his black accent that he's adapted and then when his friends drop the n-word in front of like actual black people later in the movie and they're just like fuck you know so like the movie knows exactly what it's doing i think with this character i like his tupac for his yearbook quote so good he's got a love kit korzmo is great um and then the soundtrack we've talked about just i'll just

Third Eye Blind. Yeah. Smash Mouth. Yes. Blink-182. Parliament. Matthew Sweet. The Replacements. Sublime. 311. Some of these aren't on the soundtrack, but most of them are. Eve Six. G-Love.

And then a bunch of stuff that's a little bit nostalgic-y, like Tone Loke, Bust a Move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of those, like Paradise City. Because it's been like eight to ten years since those songs hit, and they're kind of bringing them back. It's probably my favorite thing about the movie. And I don't even really love a lot of these songs, but it reminds me of 1998. Yeah, the like...

The use of Mandy, the Barry Manilow piece inside of this. The use of the Guns N' Roses song. Yazoo, Only You, playing at the end. That's an 80s movie throwback track. Yeah, this movie knows, like, hey, we're not stealing. We're homage borrowing. Yeah, exactly. And Dire Straits is great, too. Oh, yeah. The Romeo and Juliet drop. So Harry Alphonse said...

We should do a throwback to John Hughes. We talked a lot about saying anything specifically the party scene. And then we were like, what if that's the whole movie? And it was. When I read that, which I think was in the ringer piece about this, it really clicked something in place to me. Because if you think about that scene in Say Anything with Lily Taylor, singing about Joe. Joe Lies. Yeah, Joe Lies. When he cries. When he cries. Yeah, you're just dipping inside of all these different...

little groups inside that party. It's funny. Say Anything probably did it better than

That party, but it also only had to do everything in 20 minutes. Yeah, it's like 15, 20 minutes the whole movie. This movie also just goes and goes and goes. Every scene, you're following a character out of a scene right into another character in the next scene. Or there are these fascinating cuts like Preston turns off the radio and as his hand blacks out the screen, Melissa Joan Hart opens the trash can. It's just sort of like it doesn't let you breathe in a way that doesn't feel painless.

panicky but feels just sort of like it's a wild party night and we're just gonna go from one scene to the next I had that in what stage the best because it's it's like frenetically edited in a good way yeah because that's what it's like to be at a party like that we're just like oh this person oh this person oh this is happening and and it tries to hit that and it's doing like quick jump cuts and it's not like the editing doesn't feel dated no um I think they do a good job uh it did get nominated for an award

An MTV Movie Award. Hell yeah, that's where it belongs. Jennifer Love Hewitt, right there. That's another part of this whole era. The Golden Popcorn. It's the Carson Daly Show. It's the Movie Award. All this stuff, there was a pop culture feeling to all this crap. I didn't look into it, but I can't wait to know what TRL had to do with Can't Hardly Wait. Oh, I'm sure they were plugging the shit out of it. By 2012, Entertainment Weekly did top 50 best high school movies of all time.

Can't hardly wait. Number 44. Way too low. Yeah. Way too low. I thought that was going to be like the teens. Yeah. 20s at the lowest, I would say. And because, I mean, the 80s were just full of them. Yeah. The other thing is, Debra Kaplan and Harry Elfant, have you seen Josie and the Pussycats? Not in 20 years. I think that this movie and that movie, which they also did.

Art, you know, which also has Seth Green and Breckin Meyer and like all, you know, the foreign exchange student in this movie and stuff like that. Tara Reid is just like a meatball right down the middle of like, again, a specific generation, a specific sense of humor. And when you just see the Pussycats, a movie that a lot of people like.

Right off because it looks so dumb. Yeah. But as Alan Cumming and Parker Posey, which everyone loves right now. Interesting. Is like one of the funniest things I've ever seen. And has this similar sort of joke per minute rate inside of that movie. So really underrated. This movie, $13 million budget made $25 million.

Which is not terrible, but not what they wanted. No. Well, I think part of the problem was it was a glut of movies like this. Yeah. And it felt like they were coming out every week. Okay, Raj. Roger Ebert. One and a half stars. Yeah. Tough. He says, there's one character in Can't Hardly Wait who is interesting and funny. Maybe it was a mistake to write her in. She makes the other characters look like nap-brained bozos. Her name is Denise. She's played by Lauren Ambrose. And she has a merry face, a biting tongue, and a sardonic angle on high school. Yeah.

And then just kind of continues to crap on the movie. We all wanted to be Denise, I think, watching this movie. You know, like the best. All right. We are going to take a break and talk about Loom by Atlassian. What's the most frustrating thing that's happened to you since you've been in L.A.? Traffic? Traffic's a good one. Traffic's a good one? Yeah, sure. Is it just way worse than where you live?

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You can do more without spending more. Learn how to save at Cox.com slash internet. Cox internet is connected to the premises via coaxial cable. Cox mobile runs on the network with unbeatable 5G reliability as measured by UCLA LLC in the U.S. to age 2023. Results may vary, not an endorsement of the restrictions apply. Let's do most rewatchable scenes. This is hard because... So hard because they're all micro scenes that sort of bleed into each other. So I wrote down a few that I thought, and then if I missed any, tell me.

The four idiots trying to decide that they should dump their girlfriends when we meet the football captain and his dumbass friends. Yes.

throwing that in um korsmo and the nerds setting up the attack on the house using a lot of star wars language i don't know if you want to yeah boba fett grand moff tarkin i don't want to be grand moff tarkin cool was that did that i'll check all the boxes well i'm not a star wars guy i do know that it's it's funny because i'm not i didn't put it in what's aged poorly or whatever but they were all like they all want to be boba fett because boba fett's so cool and that was before disney plus made a tv show about boba fett that made boba fett way less cool oh so that's what's aged the worst yeah yeah okay

Amanda's friends trying to make her feel better about Mike dumping her and comparing her to Gwyneth Paltrow. She's not prettier than Gwyneth. I love that part. Kenny over here and the cute girl saying she's hooking up with the next guy who talks to her because she's so upset she got dumped. Yeah. When he starts talking to her and she looks over at her friend, her friend's like, yeah, okay. Yeah.

The letter flying around is really funny. Yeah. It falls out of the garbage and it's somebody, just the way they do that, I enjoy watching that. Rolls on the keg, stuck in someone's shoe, all that, yeah. Trip McNeely's one cameo played by Jerry O'Connell. You were a sexual icon. I thought college was going to be a 24-7 orgy. Guys like us are a dime a dozen. We are a dime a dozen. Mm-hmm.

Speaking of which, you still with that Amanda chick? And the burp is pretty impressive. Anyway, that part's fun. Jerry is perfect. I'm throwing in Jason Segel's one scene just because it's Jason Segel and I couldn't believe he was in the movie and I forgot. And he's like, I think, 19 in this movie or something like that. Velma gets some love. Yeah, yeah. She's a hip-hip lady. The Mike Amanda showdown.

I like the big showdown with everybody watching in a party, which would never happen in real life because everybody... You mean record scratches don't actually happen in real life? Yeah, everybody's just like, what's happening? People are fighting. Yeah, his delivery of Amanda, you know, Amanda. Yeah, well, you're the one.

Amanda! She's gonna be embarrassed! Right. She's like, wow, you really got me there, Mike. Really good. Really good. All the Kenny and Denise bathroom stuff. And then Mike's crew turning on Charlie Korsmo at the end. And Kenny and Denise seeing each other together. And then we find out that Charlie Korsmo's character became the next Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, exactly. I think is. And nothing turned out well. What did I miss?

I would guess, I would say Jenna Elfman's got Bayo monologue. It's really good. Yeah. It's really, really good. But yeah, all of the Kenny and Denise, if that were just one scene, that's the most rewatchable scene. Like him dropping his whole thing, him calling her out, their history, do those shoes serve an orthopedic function? Like everything that happens in the bathroom is great. I agree. This will be fun. What's the most 1998 thing about this movie?

What do you have? I mean, we already talked about the soundtrack. I would say Smash Mouth very specifically. Smash Mouth and Blink-182, I think, have to be both mentioned. The X-Files being so prevalent in here. Had that as well. Trust no one, the truth is out there. This was a weird era for...

People really latching onto the X-Files as like a personality. Yeah. From this light, you look a bit like David Duchovny is what they say to Charlie Korsmo. Also, one of the nerds claims to be dating Christy Turlington, has a girlfriend from the internet. I love that one. She's in Fiji right now. She's a photo shoot in Fiji. Everything Seth Green. Yep. And the Brad and Gwyneth thing, which you already mentioned. Yeah.

I have that as well. The only thing I had that you didn't mention other than Jennifer Love Hewitt, who just seems trapped in the mid-90s in a lot of ways, is Amanda Beckett's yearbook quote is, I'd rather see the world from another angle, which is from Jewel. Just having a yearbook quote from Jewel is the most late 90s thing possible. And it's perfect for her. Can we talk about the goggles?

Who was, was that real? Were people wearing goggles in 1998? The rave culture goggles, not to like a party, but to a rave. Yeah. Okay. So you did, you knew somebody or knew of somebody who would kind of throw on some goggles to go out at night. To like a rave. Yeah. Yeah. What's the point of that? Just to protect your eyes? Fashion. Oh, just fashion. Yeah. Yeah. And also like snowboarder culture sort of bleeding into fashion. Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I can't wait to get producer Craig. I know. I'm so excited. I've never, never saw it. And I just honestly can't wait. What's age the best.

Denise Fleming activities none for her yearbook thing. It's like genuinely funny. And then Kenny playing JV basketball for a game. Oh my God. That really made me laugh. I have a bunch. What do you got? What's aged the best? I think this is overall a very like sex positive movie. And I also like that Kenny and Denise's sex is very bad. Like their first time is very bad. I think that's great. I think the Trip McNeely stuff really, really plays. Yeah. Like really plays. Yeah.

And what I mentioned before about the sort of like the blurring of social circles inside of this party, I really like. That just feels like a step out of the 80s. Like from...

I don't know, Porky's, Revenge of the Nerds, like all that sort of stuff really felt like stratified or Breakfast Club, which is supposed to be about common bonds, but then you get those archetypes, you know, we are the nerd, you know, the burnout, the popular girl, whatever it is. And that's just not how high school, I thought growing up watching 80s teens movies, I thought that's what high school was and it wasn't what high school was at all, you know? Yeah, Breakfast Club has a scene where Anthony Michael Hall's character is like, what's gonna happen on Monday?

Are we going to be friends? And Molly Ringwald's like, I don't think so. And it's like, if you called my name, would you walk on by? Yeah. And she says to Emilio Estevez's character, like, come on, if he walked up to you, you just bust his butt, you know? Yeah. It's like, oh, man, these people are just doomed. Yeah, this is a little more hopeful of an era. I have a couple. Yeah. A high school called Huntington Hillside High.

And it's filmed. What is that? It's filmed at Torrance High School. Because we only get like the little, the Amanda intro is really where we're at. So are they saying this is in the Palisades? No, but like Torrance High. Or Huntington Beach? Torrance High is where they filmed all, like that's where they filmed Buffy. It's where they filmed She's All That. Like all of the high school stuff was set at that high school. But what's Huntington with a hillside? I just want to know where that is in California. It doesn't exist. I don't know where that exists.

Caring about UFOs is age the best because now UFOs are attacking us all over the place. It's true. I like when Charlie Cosmo's nerd character basically creates the template for McLovin. Yes. 100%. But when he gets drunk that one time and he's like, I can't feel my legs. I have no legs. Also, it's so good. That's good too. All good. The Fiji thing's funny.

Seth Green saying, why y'all gotta waste my flavor? Damn. All his flavor stuff was really funny. Time is honey. Yeah, it's all good. And then Paradise City is a nostalgic rock song I had for what's aged the best. But just in general, high school movies age the best because they just capture whatever the decade is in this weird way. Charlie Carson's character being like, I know this song. Some kid I tutored made me listen to it. I know all the words. It's really good. Big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food and drink.

The weed brownie on Denise that gets licked off by Eric Balfour. Which they had to PG-13.

And there's, you just kind of have to know that it's a weed brownie. You just know it's a weed brownie. Yeah, you just kind of know. You know, but you don't really know. Kid Cudi Precinct Happiness Award for Best Neato Drop. There's a million choices here, but can I make the case for Dire Straits, Romeo and Juliet? Because that's a great song. It's a great one. And it's perfectly dropped. It's when he's driving. Yeah, it's just really, it's really well dropped. I got to give it to Yazoo's Only You because Only You has that intro. Yeah.

Like at the beginning that you can play underneath the dialogue and then it hits. Yeah. That sounds good. That was music that me and my friends all listened to in the 80s. I'm like, wow, I can't believe we listen to all that stuff. The Amanda Dobbins Award for coolest piece of real estate. New category. Oh, okay. Yeah. I love it. Do it for Amanda. I love it. She hasn't been on the rewatchables in a while. Let's bring her back. I don't think she cares.

Well, we were going to do a movie and Mal said we couldn't because it was Amanda. Amanda would crucify you. Right.

Anyway, the Amanda Dobbins Award for coolest piece of real estate. New award. The house. The pool. The house is just a great high school party house. It even has the staircase that goes both ways. And it's just they did a good job. I have some sad news, though. Like genuinely sad. It's in Altadena, so it burned down. It burned down in the Altadena fires. I was worried about that. Yeah, it's gone. I saw that it was in Altadena home, and I was worried it burned down. I was like, oh. Yeah. Tough one. Yeah.

The Chess Rockwell and Brocklander is the word for best character name. It's got to be Trick McNeely, right? Well, it's Trick McNeely, but in terms of like the rest of the cast having names that are just their archetype, there's Ready to Have Sex Girl.

And there's ready to have sexes friend is what they're called in the credits. That's in the credits? Yeah. Ready to have sex girl? And ready to have sex girl's friend. Yeah. Wow. Imagine telling your parents that. I landed this role. Wait, stay for the closing credits. I'm ready to have sex girl. I'm ready to have sex girl. Yeah. Oh, you have a flex category. What do you got? Would a cell phone ruin this movie? New category.

Wow, new category. Yeah. Like, they talk about this all the time with X-Files. You couldn't do the X-Files with a cell phone because if you had a cell phone, you could take a photo of the weird stuff you see or, you know, that sort of stuff. And horror movies. I think all the time about the way in which cell phones and the internet have ruined basic premises for movies. Yeah. And so...

Let's say Amanda has a smartphone in this movie. And she picks up the letter. It's from Preston Myers. She's like, look, goes on social media. She's like, goes on his Insta. Who's Preston Myers? Nobody's streaming from this party. Nobody's TikToking from this party. Like nobody's down their phone. They're all sort of like here and having a good time. That's a great category. I wonder who that should be named after.

I got to really put some time and thought into this. Maybe the readers can help. I would love that. There's a lot of movies that are just completely undermined with the cell phone. Yeah. Horror movies and thriller action movies are...

it's much harder to do those with everyone having a smartphone in their pocket. Diehard? Can you do Diehard the same way if you have a smartphone? So sometimes they have to come up with... Well, if a payphone's involved, you know that they... The payphone is a device. Does Preston even get to meet Jenna Elfman if he has a cell phone? No, he needs that payphone. That's a great one. Great category. All right, here we go. The Butcher's Girlfriend Award for Weak Link of the Film.

My biggest issue with this film for 27 years is Ethan Embry and the character. I know. It's a controversial take. Oh, no. A lot of people get really upset about it. Okay. Let's fight about it. I just don't understand Preston at all. And I was doing the research and he has this interview he did like 12 years ago where he said...

At the time when we were shooting, I was the world's biggest stoner. Yeah. I remember the director came up to me and asked if I was altered and he like, couldn't remember anything in the movie. And then there was this anecdote about how Jennifer Lovewit came up, gave him a teddy bear full of breath mints for their climactic kissing scene.

Because everyone on the set knew he spent all of his time smoking pot in his trailer and she didn't want to kiss like a pot mouth guy. And so I watched it the second time after I did the research and I was like, that totally makes sense with how he's playing this character. Oh no, this is traumatic for me, Bill.

I love Ethan Edwards. I'm sure you do. Girls love him. Preston Myers is like... I personally don't get it. It's funny because the way that I think people, women of your generation feel about Lloyd Dobler is how I feel about Preston Myers. And Lloyd Dobler is one that I like don't really fully... I'm going to try to erase that from my mind. Really, Joanna?

The red suede jacket, the like, he's going to go study with Kurt Vonnegut for the summer. Like, this is just such a right down the middle sensitive girl's guy. Yeah. Remember how you tried to provoke me on White Lotus last week? I tried a bunch of times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This one got me. This is great. You landed. Just wait until we get to the recasting couch because I have a couple suggestions. Okay. What do you have for the butch's girlfriend? I don't know that this movie has a weak link.

Because anyone who's even slightly wobbly, they're gone the next moment. It doesn't even really matter. Yeah. And I personally think the core cast is kind of perfect. The only one I would say is like... Because when we get to the casting what-ifs, I don't know if Peter Facinelli is perfect as Mike Dexter. You know? I think there were some other possibilities with that character. They said they wanted Facinelli because he has...

I think the word they use is like a streak of malice to him. And I agree. But I actually kind of wish Mike Dexter were like a little less evil than he is inside of this movie. I don't know how to make sense of his character, but I can just only compare it to the greats from the 80s. Specifically, yeah.

The goat, Billy Zabka. Oh, yeah. And you think like this is a Billy Zabka role. Yeah. Now the whole movie fall. You're like, oh, I totally get who this guy is. He's not Zabka enough on the Zabka scale. He's like a three. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know. I was trying to think of other actors from that generation or like Spader and Pretty in Pink.

Right. Who's just like, oh man, that guy's a fucking asshole. Yeah. But like, yeah, he just has something, you know, I don't either. He needed to be bigger and more physically imposing or he needed to have that Zabka kind of feel to him or even like a Judd Nelson kind of kind of wild card. I might get in a fight at all times. I feel like you need you need to understand like Amanda has this whole speech about

I was thinking of Craig Sheffer in Some Kind of Wonderful. You need to understand why Amanda was with him for so long. And she gives a speech about that, about how she was nobody or old school. Then Mike latches on and turns her into a somebody. But like you think a little, he's just so the worst. I had that in What's Aged the Worst. You're spending three years with this dude just because he's good at football? Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It's tough. Makes you think less of her. Exactly. What's Aged the Worst?

The gay sex trap or the F slur drop. Yeah. And there's some. Yeah. Yeah. Late 90s. Yeah. Very Heathers. Having a crush on Scott Baio and telling a long monologue about it.

This is before Twitter. This is before we knew what Scott Baio was capable of on Twitter. Even like go back and watch Charles in Charge or Happy Days and be like, wait, really? Scott Baio? Joni loves Chachi. Charles in Charge. Scott Baio meant something before he let us know who he was. How about the drummer of the band at the party saying to the lead singer that he looks like Lestat? Does anyone under 40 get that joke? The vampire? Well, they do now. Interview with the vampire is back. Vampire Lestat. You're right. Okay. Come back around.

And then Breckenmire calls Donald Faison's character Hootie because he wants to wear a cowboy hat. Great. All right. So the R rating that this movie didn't get. Here's some of the research. Fascinelli says they cut out one character, Crying Drunk Girl, who they subtitled because she was just talking complete gibberish. And she was played by Jan Brady from Brady Bunch movies. That sounds great. I wish that person was in the movie.

Stone Girl, who you can see staring at the banana at one point, was in the movie way more. Amber Benson from Buffy Vampire Slayer. Yeah. They changed the pot brownies to brownies, but we knew. At one point, I think the guy from Cruel Intentions, what's his name from Save the Last Dance? That guy? Sean Patrick Thomas. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.

Instead of bullshit, he says, Bullcorn! I've never heard bullcorn ever. Apparently, Jason Segel wasn't just holding the watermelon but started to have sex with it. He fucks the watermelon. Yeah. Before American Pie happened, Jason Segel fucked the watermelon. So did American Pie just rip off like seven things from this movie? When you know that and you rewatch this movie and you watch Jason Segel just like scooping the watermelon out of the rind, you're like, Jesus Christ. And then...

Who said this? Oh, Ethan Embry. Asked if he felt any anger when movies like American Pie and Superbad kicked off a wave of successful raunchy teen comedies. Embry replies, absolutely. Like, you fuckers. This is like the last... It's almost like a black and white TV before we get to color. Like, this movie's completely different if they make it five years later. Yeah, and he said that they also kind of neutered Empire Records as far as he's concerned. And I'm like, I guess. There's like...

suicide attempts in that movie. Like there's stuff in that movie that I'm just like, what, what was the darker version of Empire Records? Wasn't with them on that one. The Van Lathan Award for did this movie need more black people? Just throwing it in. I bet he would say yes because there's like two black people in it. There's two. So there's two black characters who are like in the popular clique. Yeah. Right. The aforementioned Say the Last Dance star, Sean Patrick Thomas. I don't think he brought him up from Cruel Intentions. That's a great one. Donald Faison is here.

There's like reminiscing. Donald Faison. There's a reminiscing guy. Remember that time that we did this and the other thing? I think if you can count them on one hand though, then they're not enough. Just shouting out Van. I think also when you have having Kenny and his friends in this movie, it would be great if we had a more substantial black character who was like, what the fuck? The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting award. I have my pick, but you go. Sarah Rue.

Earth girl. Your sheep, all of you? Bah? No? You love it? I loved it. Okay. I'm going back to Preston. You're going back to Embry. Mandy, shirt for Amanda. That's my sign. This is tough. This is tough for me. That's my sign.

So do you like Ethan Embry in Empire Records or that thing you do? Have you liked him in other things? He's okay. I do not think he was the right choice for Preston. Okay. Can't wait to give you my alternatives. Okay. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. What do you got? Preston and Amanda should not wind up together at the end of this movie.

Who does Amanda end up with? Herself. She should Kelly. She should Kelly choose herself. Oh, the Kelly Taylor. Wow. She should choose herself because she gives this whole monologue about how she doesn't like when the opening and everyone knows where they're going to college and everyone's going to a good school, by the way. She knows they know where they're going to college. The schools are really good at Huntington Hillside High. Yeah. Kelly's going to UCLA. Okay. Crushing it. Dartmouth. Yeah.

But Amanda's undecided. Yeah. She doesn't know where she's going to school. She doesn't know who she, and that's fine, but she doesn't know who she is. She gives this whole monologue to her creepy cousin about how she doesn't know who she is if she's not Mike Dexter's girlfriend. And then she immediately gets into her, like that day gets into a relationship with Preston. I had this in Picket Nets. Yeah. It fell out a little soon. Choose yourself. Get to know yourself, Amanda. Yeah.

Watch Runaway Bride and figure out what kind of eggs you like. Go away for a weekend with your mom and your aunt. Go backpacking in Europe. Take a gap year. Yeah. I'm with you. I have my hottest take. Yeah. An ensemble cast high school movie centered around one big party is the easiest and most watchable movie anyone can possibly make. And I don't understand why there's 20 of them a year. Let's make one. Craig.

Your thoughts. Is there an easier thing to do in Hollywood than an ensemble cast high school movie centered around one big party? I don't know if it's the easiest thing you can do, but it's the most watchable. It's the most sought after. Everybody wants it, but there are so many attempts that don't work. So...

It's kind of a combination of both where I want a million of these. I mean, I think they try now. There's movies like Sweethearts on HBO that just come and go and disappear. They just need to put them in theaters. I agree. Other... I would just do these. Every year, it should be like a federal law. Yes. Right.

If we're going to have tariffs, maybe this could be a law too. Like, federal law, we have to make one a year to capture whatever the year was with an ensemble high school movie. Maybe this is what Mikey Madison should do post her Oscar win. Yeah, use your power, Mikey Madison. Exactly. Go back to high school. On the, like, Preston and Amanda should not have wound up together front. Yeah. In the original conception of this.

Preston winds up with Denise, which of course that's, that's the eighties template, right? That's the teen wolf, some kind of wonderful. My wife mentioned that when we were watching it and she was like, are they setting? She, she could remember it. I was like, are they're setting up? They end up together at the end. And I was like, no, they actually swerve on this. Yeah, they really do. But I, I, you know, something kind of wonderful is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I just think that like Denise deserves better than Kenny.

And Amanda deserves to figure herself out. And Preston and Denise have this really nice thing. So I'm pro that. I actually almost put that in What's Aged to Worst when it says Denise and Kenny broke up five minutes later. I just would have had that. Yeah, and they get back together. I wouldn't even have them get back together in five minutes. They break up five minutes later. Because that freeze frame on her is so good. It's like the end of The Graduate. She's staring off like, what have I done sort of moment. Yeah.

All right, before we get to casting what ifs, we'll take one more break.

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Casting what ifs. They wrote the role of Kenny with Breckenmeyer in mind, and he was shooting 54. The Studio 54 movie. Instead, a movie I'm kind of obsessed with because it's one of the most legendarily butchered movies ever released from an editing standpoint. And then there's this whole director's cut that I don't know if you've ever seen. I've never. Is it good? Yeah. It is like the biggest disparity between what a movie that was actually released where you're like,

This movie's incoherent. What's happening? And then the director's cut, it's like, oh, these three actually ended up in some weird threesome kind of relationship and got caught up. It fills in a lot of blanks. I believe you. I'm going to watch the director's cut of Studio 54. Watch the director's cut. Hard to find. Anyway, he took a small role as the lead singer of Love Burger. Anyone order a Love Burger? So...

They wanted Embry to read for the nerd, the Charlie Korsmo part. And Embry insisted. I said, no, I know I'm not your typical leading man type, but I thought this movie was better suited if they didn't cast that guy. And they said, okay, big mistake.

Women agree. Women love Preston. Men love Jennifer Love Hewitt. That's fine. Women love Preston Myers. We're just going to agree to disagree. Here, Kaplan said they were looking very closely at James Marsden for Mike Dexter, but Fastinelli had a hint of danger that he didn't. Marsden would have been great. Marsden, everybody's been in on Marsden and he's finally had his moment and it took

You feel like Jury Duty is the moment? Jury Duty. I think this Hulu show. Yeah. I think Marsden's like, it's finally all happened. He's coming back to the X-Men. Took him two decades. Yeah. Everyone likes Marsden. What's that Katherine Hagel movie? Oh, 27 Dresses. He's great in that. He's great in Enchanted. I had to listen once to my wife and Juliette Lipman sing.

Have like an 18 minute James Marsden conversation while I was like pouring gasoline on myself. He never must hairspray. He never misses. Marsden never misses. Gotta say, met him and talked to him at a, at an Oscars party and just a handsome guy. And like a nice guy. Nice, nice guy. Yeah. And it doesn't seem like he has a lot of problems in life. They wanted Alicia wit for the Lauren Ambrose role. That's an interesting one. Great one.

It's a good, uh, she's another one that I feel like, and she's had, she's had some good roles over the year, but I thought she was so good in that Sopranos episode. Oh, you didn't see it. Um,

It made me wonder. I feel like there was more there career-wise for her. Oh, definitely. She basically played this Denise character on the show Sybil. She played Sybil, Shepard's daughter, and she was basically doing exactly this down to the red hair. And so I feel like they just wanted her to do that. She would have been great. What was that movie with her? Urban Legend, the high school movie? Yeah, Urban Legend. You know another thing with Leigh Chouette? Sean Fantasy, card-carrying Leigh Chouette, fan club member. That's a Mount Rushmore for him. Yeah. Yeah.

Hope I'm not talking out of school. She's in Dune. Yeah. She's been around. She's in a season of Justified, which is not the best season of Justified, but that's not her fault. Her Sopranos episode is really great. So they cast somebody else for the nerd role of William that Korsmo ended up doing. And it was this actor named Adam Handbird who had been in Little Man Tate.

and he just didn't fit, and they had to fire him. I think they said he looked too young. He's 15 years old, and he just looked like a baby. And they just couldn't lay in the plane on it. Are you a little man, Tate? I'm not. I loved that movie, and this is a real moment for me. But not only Alicia Witt for Denise, but also Reese Witherspoon and Christina Ricci. Did you believe that? You don't believe that? I feel like Reese Witherspoon was too famous at that point. Yeah, she was leading Pleasantville, and she was in...

Fear at that point. Well, fear. I think she's too famous to be in this movie. She's only the Jennifer Love Hewitt character if she's in this. But she was also doing like, she was kind of doing edgy at this time. You know, like she did freeway. Like she was trying to do edge. And so I feel like

I don't know. I understand what you're saying. It's just... She's like Cruel Intentions like a year later. I don't know. She's like you put her on the front of the poster. So I think unless it's the Jennifer LePue role, I don't see it. Yeah, she did Fear and Freeway in 96. And then she doesn't have anything in 97. Pleasantville. Overnight Delivery. Pleasantville's 98. Overnight Delivery in 98, which is her and Paul Rudd. I don't know if you've seen that. That's like a... You don't know if I've seen that. Who are you talking to?

But like that movie is good. It is good. But she's doing she's doing edge. She liked to do edge for a little while. And then she got into Pleasantville and Cruel Intentions and sort of like the good girl thing. The best that guy award category is one of the best ever because we have here's three nominees and you might have more. The guy who paid Dirk Degler to jerk off in front of the church.

He's Mike Dexter, one of his friends. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. There's one. Yes. Poppy from Seinfeld as the cop. Yes.

And then Tara from 90210, who became obsessed with Kayla Taylor and became single wave female. She's in this too, is one of the high school kids. That is the all time big three. Dirt Digger, 90210, Seinfeld. I'm in. I'm done. I'm retiring, Craig. I would say Amber Benson from Buffy Vampire Slayer being in here is like a big one for me. I don't know who that is. I didn't know who Amber Benson is. I didn't know what her name was. Tara, yeah, from Buffy. So you're a big Buffy person? Yeah, yeah.

Because in 90210, one year they had Brandon's girlfriend who went on to play Anya. Who went on Buffy. Yeah. And that was the best Brandon girlfriend. That was the one he should have ended up with. But I think she left to do Buffy. She's great on Buffy, though. I can't remember what her name was, but she was like the editor of the newspaper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She wrote the big abortion story that it turned out she was the one that had the abortion. Big swerve at the end. Yeah.

Yeah, she's amazing. Buffy was like a pretty, that was another farm factory for these movies. Yeah, you got Seth Green, Sarah Michelle Gellar showing up in things, Allison Hannigan in American Pie. Yeah, the WB was just full of it. Farm system. Yeah. Dionne Waiters Award. You mentioned Melissa Joan Hart. I think she's eligible. Sarah Rood, Jenna Elfman, and Jerry O'Connell, I think, and Jason Segel.

Can I make the case for a klepto kid? Klepto kid's a great one. Who has no, no, and he's one of those guys. I think he shows up in American Pie too. Like I think, yeah. Klepto kid's just continually just showing up and stealing something. And I think he's my favorite. He's really funny. He steals the gumball machine at the end. Yeah.

Brian Klugman, who plays stoner guy who's not Jason Segel with the, like, curly hair. Yeah. He's the one who's got the Velma from Scooby-Doo line. Yeah. He's the one who says Preston wears t-shirts sometimes. That's a good one. He says Prestone. Like, I just, I love him. He shows up with a dinosaur throughout the whole movie. I really like him. All right. Recasting couch director city. Okay. I do have a Preston candidate here. Freddie Prinze Jr. Oh.

Another one that the women like that the guys never totally got. Because like Freddie, you know, and she's all that. Like he was often cast in the like cool, the popular kid role. Yeah. The jock role. But I think he would have really thrived in this sort of like sensitive kid role. I think this would have been a good moment for him. Yeah. I have two options for you. Okay. Marsden. Marsden for Mike Dexter? Marsden for Preston. Marsden for Preston. Yeah. Yeah.

You nerd him up a little bit, but I feel like I'm way more believing that she's going to be just immediately smitten by Marston. And maybe Marston changes his hair. Maybe he's got some weird hairdo until the last day of high school. Or is he too handsome? The thing about Preston is she rejects him when she just thinks he's a rando, and it's only because he wrote that letter. So nobody rejects Marston? No one says no to Preston. Okay. Well, here's my other idea. No one puts Marston in a corner.

Jason Segel and Ethan Embry just switch parts. Okay, because he's already stoned. He's ready to fuck a watermelon. Yeah, he's already watermelon fuck run. Yeah, yeah. And then we get Jason Segel, first movie ever, age 19. He's like tall and skinny and gawky, but he's cool. And from what we know from him over the next 10 years, could have pulled it off. This is similar to his role in Freaks and Geeks. I think he really could have done it. All right, so I got you on board. You got me. Craig has a choice. Flex category.

I made up a new category. Great. It's the Matt Flynn $26 million contract award for the person I can't believe we thought was going to be a star, and it goes to Ethan Embry. Yes. I needed another woman on this podcast. Guys don't get it. No, I don't. Girls get it. I don't get it. The whole cast I don't really understand. Craig, what do you mean? You don't get it?

He's fucking Shaggy from Scooby-Doo for 90 minutes. Nightmare. Shaggy. That's great. So what's that category called? It's the Matt Flynn $26 million contract award for the person I can't believe we thought was a star. So Matt Flynn was this guy who was a backup QB in the Packers.

And he played like two games at the end of a season and did well in the two games. He threw five touchdowns in one game and everybody freaked out. So it was the last game of the year. It didn't really mean anything. Seattle freaked out, gave him this huge contract, and then he wasn't good.

And that's who compared Ethan Embry to your guy. That's a great category. I really like it. I just fundamentally disagree with the premise, but I like it as a category going forward. Another casting option. Yeah. Because thinking about Ethan Embry, I don't know if he could have gotten away with playing a teenager, but Tom Everett Scott from That Thing You Do, right? Like in the Preston role, he's got that sort of like nerdy, cute sweetness going on. Yeah, that's solid. Okay.

But that's another one. Tom Everett Scott is another one where I was like, I really thought he was going to be a big deal. And then he wasn't at all. I have to test drive one more candidate for the football player. Okay.

What about Mark Wahlberg? Just, just six years too old to be in the movie as Mike Dexter. Mark Wahlberg and his fear era. Yeah. Just fear Mark Wahlberg. Like real, really menacing. And you kind of can't believe he's in the movie, but that gave him a lot of money to be in it. I don't know. I think for this movie to have stuck beyond the micro generation that it hit, it needed like a Jason. It needed one more person who stayed quite famous and,

to have been in one of the leading roles. Well, that's 10 things I hate about you. Yeah. Keith Ledger vaulted that movie to a whole nother. I mean, we already did that one on rewatchables. Half-assed research. We mentioned Melissa Joan Hart, who was filming Sabrina at the same time and took B12 vitamins to stay energized during the all night shoots. B12 vitamins. Yeah. I'm going to wonder what that really was. And then apparently when the, um,

When they finished filming in the place, they allowed the whole cast to destroy the house for one last scene. And they spent an hour destroying the house. Because, I mean, the interior was a set. Yeah. And then the exterior is the Altagena house that is no longer. Fun fact, Breckin Meyer married Deborah Kaplan and they had two kids. Right. Yeah. And he could have been, who was his character? He could have been Kenny, but he was the lead singer of Love Burger.

I mean, he's another one who could have been Preston. I'll basically accept anyone else from that era as Preston. But Breckenmire had just come off of Clueless and he's like got that stoner energy off of Clueless. What about Justin Long?

Is he old enough? Is he too young? He's the same age as Ethan Emery. But I think he like looked too young. But I thought Ethan Emery looked, he kind of had a receding hairline even at 21. It's true. It's true. Yeah, I actually looked, I was going to put that for what stage is it worse thinking he was like 38 when he filmed the movie and he was 21. I was shocked. I was shocked. He was 21. I was shocked.

Apex Mountain. Ethan Embry, definitely. It's Ethan Embry. Jennifer Love Hewitt, no question. Party of Five crossed with this movie, crossed with I Know We Did Last Summer. Yes, this time. It never got bigger. This exact moment is her moment. This exact moment. I don't know that this, and dating Carson Daly, as you pointed out. Yeah. I don't know that this movie, like of those three things, I don't know that this movie. I'm just saying this specific time frame, 98, this is it. The entrance she gets with the fan on her chest.

preposterously enormous hair and the sneaker pips are playing underneath is like an all-timer. Any actor in Hollywood wants that to have happened to them at some point in their career. Fascinale, definitely. No, Twilight.

Oh, I don't know Twilight. I also don't know Twilight that well, but he is a big deal in Twilight. How big is he in Twilight? He's the patriarch of the vampire family. Oh, that sounds important. That's more important than this movie and being married to Jenny Garth at the same time. You're right. He's got Twilight money. Yeah, Twilight. All right, that's fine. Jenna Alfman, yes.

Because she's on that show at the same time. Darma and Greg. Yeah. Darma and Greg, plus she cameo on this where it's like a big deal. She made a cameo. What was the... It was like their... Keeping the Faith. Is that what that's called? The one with Edward Norton? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 90s teen movies? Okay. No, I don't know if it is or not. We're debating. I don't think so because... I actually think the answer is Scream. That's a good one. It might be Clueless.

Oh, yeah, you're right. It might be Clueless. Yeah. It's Screamer Clueless. Clueless is like right in the middle, you know what I mean? Yeah. And American Pie is 2000? Yeah. Yeah, so that's... Or 99. American Pie might be 99. Oh, shit. If Pie's 99, then I think that's... You think it's American Pie? Yeah. Well, the question about... Yeah, it's 99. Yeah, that's somewhere around there. But like the thing... I would say, yes, it spawned sequels, but I think the fact that it spawned sequels then like takes it out of the 90s, whereas Clueless is just...

pure in the 90s 90s you know Korsmo I really liked him in What About Bob but I don't know I don't know what his he's great he's great in uh and Hook Run Home Jack all in one night high school movies yeah probably Superbad Superbad is I love Superbad I love Booksmart Days and Confused yeah that's pretty good too yeah

I would say Superbad. I think it was the most successful and it had the most people in it that went on to become even bigger. Decent Confused is like the art house Superbad. Yeah, the indie one. Blink-182 and Smash Mouth? Yes. Smash Mouth, certainly. This is Smash Mouth's movie.

Cruise or Hanks? There's like no adults in this movie. Where do you... No, you got to go... We're allowed to take any year of Cruise or Hanks. You can go early 80s either. Baby Hanks as Preston Myers? It's interesting because I was thinking risky business era Joel Goodson Cruise. Yeah.

Dorking it up, but then deep down, there's a little more there as Preston or Cruz as Mike Dexter. Yeah, Cruz as Mike Dexter is a really good one. You know who gave me risky business, Tom Cruz, is Korsmo when he's doing Paradise City. There's like this cruziness to him. That's really interesting. Craig, you pick. I was thinking the same thing. I think Hanks as the lead. I think Cruz as Mike Dexter. Yeah. Oh, Cruz is too small for Mike Dexter. He can't be a football player. They'd have to fudge that.

All right, so let's go Hanks. Like 1979 Hanks as Mike Dexter. Yeah. Yeah, all right. No, wait, as Mike Dexter? I mean, as Preston. Yeah, yeah. Scorsese or Spielberg? Hilarious category. I'd probably go Spielberg for this one. Definitely Spielberg. Spielberg. Can you imagine? Scorsese. Can't really wait. A lot of cocaine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Probably Trip McNeely. I would say Jenna Elfman's angel role.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. Picking nets. I have a couple. What do you have? This is a perfect movie. I have no notes to pick. Okay. The cops break up that party in one hour.

I just wrote down Amanda Beckett. What's happening there? She was with this idiot for three years and goes to a party and doesn't seem to really have any friends and just kind of wanders around and doesn't know anyone. Like you have no identity. Like what? Yeah. Like, I just feel like she would have a little more. This is the thing is like I was more wherewithal. I was reading the negative reviews, which I couldn't wholly disagree with. And they were like, there's no depth to these characters. I'm like, I think some of them have depth.

Except Amanda, who's just intentionally a blank slate. But then that's just not that interesting. So, yeah. Nobody else uses the upstairs bathroom for this entire party. I mean, has anyone ever been to a high school party? People are they were looking at the line. They're looking around. They're going upstairs. Not a single person tries the door. For two hours. They're trapped in the bathroom. Nobody else goes up there. Come on. Amanda has no idea who Preston is.

How big was this high school? But she doesn't, I mean, that's, I guess, Sarah Rue's point is like, you don't know any of us. You know your shitty popular friends. Yeah.

Absolute iconic Jamie Presley performance in this movie, by the way. We should have mentioned her in What's Aged to Best. She's great in this. Always loved her. And so she just hung out with those four dudes and those three girls and that was it. Never saw her enough. And her cousin. Yeah. And had no other friends. Then, yeah. But that just makes you think poorly of Amanda. Right. Because at least Ione Skye's character in Say Anything had a reason she didn't know anyone. Right? Yeah. It was like...

she was sheltered and you know home like not homeschooled but just sort of like was on this track and stuff like that so when she shows up at the high school party and say anything and nobody knows her but they're all like we wish we had known you right we wanted to know you it was acknowledged yeah yeah

I Kenny and Denise just having sex right away after they talked for 10 minutes when they were both pretty socially immature. I don't know. I'm flagging it late 90s. Things were starting to flip, but she had had it wasn't her first time. No, and I just feel like they probably I don't know. I don't know if they're just like make out a bit, but they don't. I don't know if they're banging boots in two minutes on the cold bathroom floor. He does have the love kit. He does. Maybe the love kit got her.

sequel prequel prestige tv all black cast or untouchable can i talk you into semi prestige okay like an eight episode amazon all set in a final night of a high school and it's almost done like the pit with no wiley it's like each hour is an actual hour at the party yeah yeah yeah craig would you watch that

Sure, yeah. The pit crossed with Can't Hardly Wait? Eight hours at somebody's house? That's kind of similar to what... That's where the B12 vitamins come in. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of similar to what American Vandal tried to do with their breakdown of what happened one night at a party. But yeah, do it pit style. What is John Wells doing? Why not? Can't Hardly Wait? It's just crushing. Wiley is the most back anyone's ever been back. 100% back. He's full-time back. Yeah. Is this movie better?

With Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainville, Longlegs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm? I know I already said- We could say nobody. I already said Philip Seymour Hoffman in the Jenna Elfman role, but what about Danny Trejo in the Jenna Elfman role? Just in terms of like, not in this, doesn't have to be an angel, but just in terms of like the one adult who wanders in and gives you advice and is Danny Trejo.

That sounds good. Dressed like an angel? Or not, but just like, is there talking about Scott Baio or whatever he wants to talk about. Danny Trejo, I think, belongs in this universe. Can I offer you Sam Jackson as the cop? Yeah, you can. Instead of Poppy from Seinfeld, Sam Jackson comes in and just Sam Jackson's it up for like six minutes and then they just give him a million dollars? While Blink-182 plays in the background. What the fuck is going on at this party? You guys are crazy.

Just one Oscar who gets it. I'm going to unfortunately say nobody for this one, which we rarely have a nobody. No, you have to do it. That's the rule. You have to do it. You have to do it? I have one. Okay. I have two. Best editing. Best editing. That's good. Good answer. Mark Bridges, who's the costume designer, who went on to win an Oscar for The Phantom Thread. There you go. That sounds great. I mean, Kenny's goggles, everything Kenny.

Everything 90s. What the popular girls are wearing, they're like bra and skirt set. Costume design. Yeah. And the nominees are Can't Hardly Wait. Can't Hardly Wait. Yeah. Sense and Sensibility. Probably an answerable questions. I don't really have any other than this one. The five-year reunion sequel was sitting right there in 2003. And all of these people were still relatively famous enough. And American Pie is cooking. But they could have made it way more raunchy.

And five-year, same thing, one night, we catch up. At that point, the movie had kind of taken off as a cult movie. It's sitting right there. Great call. I don't know why they did it. They could also do the 30-year reunion movie, but I'm not sure people would be as excited about that one. But they might, because it would be like, what are these people doing now? And it would be exciting to see them. We don't see Breckenmire that often. Do you know what I mean? It would be fun to see him. Donald Faison is making a lot of...

commercials and has a podcast but like maybe Amanda has a personality by then maybe maybe she's grown a personality yeah yeah you have any answerables no okay there's one a word for what happened the next day I have Preston and Amanda dated for two years and then she immediately started dating the soccer captain of whatever school she was going to and dumped him

I think it's a two-year romance. That or he met someone at his college who actually had a personality. Who actually could have a conversation. And when he's like, I'm going to do a summer internship with Kurt Vonnegut. And she's like, great. That's great for you. But he meets someone at his college who has read a Kurt Vonnegut book. Who actually has read Kurt Vonnegut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's smart. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie or not want? This is easy for me. The goggles? No, it's the Love Burger shirt from the band.

Oh, that's a great one. Yeah. Yeah. I also, I wrote that in the love kit, but then the yearbook would be kind of funny to have because people signed it. Yeah. The goggles are pretty good. I would give those to Craig because he was obviously fascinated by those. Craig definitely gets the goggles. Coach Finstock will wear for best life lesson. Fate only takes you so far. That's beautiful. I actually really learned something about life in this. Here's mine. Always wear shoes in the dorm shower.

Right? You don't want to get warts. No. Yeah. There was a kid in my dorm freshman year who got like something really gnarly happened to his foot in the dorm shower. And I was like, you clearly didn't see Can't Hardly Wait. Right. If you had, you would have known. You always got to wear shower shoes in the dorm shower. Shower shoes are important. Best double feature choice. What do you have? Superbad.

Super bad. So I had 16 candles. Interesting. Maybe it's a triple feature. Generational thing. So it'd be 16 candles. Can't hardly wait. Yeah. Super bad. And then Booksmart. Yeah. And that's like four generations of all in one night movies. Maybe you throw in Say Anything for a quintuple header. I love it. Sounds great. Who won the movie? This is hard. The 90s? Did the 90s win the movie? Does it have to be a person? It can be whatever you want. It can be whatever I want.

I would say for the time in terms of like stock and recognizability out of the movie and all that sort of stuff might be Seth Green. This is like a big Seth Green moment. So I had it narrowed down to Ethan Embry because there's just no way he was ever going to lead another movie after this. So he gets to at least point to like, hey, that time I led a movie. Seth Green, who's just having an incredible run here. Yeah. Do we mention him in Apex Mountain?

I might have forgotten to put him in there. Because he has Austin Powers. He's Scott Evil. He has this. He's on Buffy. He's just all over the place. And it feels like he's... Everybody likes Seth Green. He had a really high approval rating. And then he does Robot Chicken. You know this wasn't his first high school movie. I can do this. Airborne? I don't know if you're going to get it. Airborne? Does that count? Not what I'm thinking. My Stepmother's an Alien? Yeah.

Can't buy me love. Oh, can't buy me love. He's Chucky, the little annoying brother who keeps trying to, he's Patrick Dempsey's brother. Have you seen Airborne though? The rollerblading movie? I don't know if I saw Airborne. Oh. Yeah? Oh. Okay. You should watch Airborne.

Young Jack Black's in that movie. Seth Green's in that movie. Lana Yuback's in that movie. It's about a California surfer bro who moves to Minneapolis or something like that. It's snowing all the time. And

he discovers rollerblading and that's how they all like bond together. The hockey kids and the California kid. I missed out on all the roller skating, rollerblading, skateboarding movies. All of them. I didn't want, I haven't seen any of them. Yeah. None of them. Wow. Okay. None of them. Um, or who won the movie? I think you could say Lauren Ambrose.

Because she had the best career after, and it's so cool to see her in this movie now. She gets six feet under sort of off the back of this. Yeah. And you see the seeds evolve. She's had a really good career. I mean, in the moment, it felt like Jennifer Love Hewitt won the movie. But as you said, her character doesn't really have a lot going on. I think this cemented something for her moment. Yeah. But it didn't carry her beyond this.

I like your Seth Green call. Yeah, I think it's Seth Green. Yeah. He's the most quotable. So everyone was just like always running around. Yeah. Dropping Kenny. Special K quotes. All right. I'm nervous. Craig Horlbeck, our producer, never seen this movie. I genuinely can't wait because I bet I like, I feel like I know. You can't hardly wait. I can't hardly wait. Look, I'll be kind.

The bar is just high for high school comedies. The bar is really high. And this is like watching Bob Pettit. And you're like, I get it maybe in the moment. I don't know if it holds up. You know what I mean? It kind of feels like... Bob Pettit. He's a 1950s basketball player. It just feels like you ran... If you asked ChatGPT, like, write me, say anything in three minutes. And it cranked out, can't hardly wait. It's tough because...

It like has the look of American pie, but it has like the feel and the earnestness of like a say anything. And I think for my generation or the earnestness high school comedy died before I came around. Like by the time I showed up, it was like super bad and all that stuff. So kind of going back to this, like the hopeless romantic stick, um,

It was tough. It was tough. And it's in the, the lack of star power in the cast was shocking. And Sean, I was talking to Sean this weekend about it and he was like, oh yeah, Ethan Embry. Like people thought he was, he was a thing for like two years and everybody in this movie, they were like, they thought everybody was going to go on and have like a real career. And so going back now, I was, I was shocked at the casting of this film. That's, that was one of the reasons I was so excited to do it.

Because it's like this time capsule that you can't really explain 27 years later. It's this incredible mid-tier of success where I can name check every single person in this movie, but Craig, who just is a decade younger than me or whatever, is just sort of like,

that guy, that guy, that guy. Like, they were never a thing. And also, this is sort of exactly what I expected, Craig, because it's just like, it really is a you-had-to-be-there movie. Yeah, totally. You definitely had to be there. And I didn't expect... I was like, Craig's not going to like this at all. No, I know. It's just...

it's laid on thick, you know, all the, all the archetypes are laid on pretty thick. I do think there are like storylines that I like. I actually, I think the nerd kid getting drunk was funny. That worked for me. Yeah. And I thought the best part of the movie, you didn't really talk about it. The Jerry O'Connell scene, I think is legitimately good. Yeah. And that could have been the sequel or, or just exploring the theme of peaking in high school or the guy who was awesome going to college and realizing that he's a loser and coming back.

I thought that interaction between the two of them was like, was like, you know, the ghost of Christmas past coming back and telling you like what your future is like. I thought it was pretty good. It was like, you know, Mike Dexter was looking at his future on the bench. I thought that was good. So you want the Mike Dexter-

like, burns out of college. Yeah. I want Mike Dexter going to college with Jerry O'Connell. Yeah. But you know what, Craig? Everything he just laid out is one of the reasons I like this movie. It's because the late 90s had no interest in really exploring anything. No. They just wanted... They cared about, is there a good soundtrack? Yeah. Did we get enough young stars? Yeah.

Can you describe the theme of the movie in a sentence? Let's go. Can you film this in 25 days? And this was just three years of movies. I think this movie thought it was satirizing high school archetypes. And in reality, it was just kind of sloppy versions of them. I don't think it thought it was doing anything.

I think genuinely, and I don't see that as a negative. I think it was just sort of like, to your point, we have $2 to rub together and we know a bunch of young people are out of work and we want to stake our claim as directors because this writing duo had never directed anything before. And so they're like, what's the lowest stake thing that we can put together? And it's funny throughout, which it is. And part of this era, they just shamelessly ripped off movies that already happened. Yeah.

You know, like what was the movie? The Freddie Prinze movie where the girl. She's all that. It's basically Secret Admirer. Not Secret Admirer. Can't Buy Me Love. Yes. Oh, 100%. Redone. Or you'd have movies like The Faculty where they were just like, do you have the script yet?

The faculty's evil. That's all we got. But we got to shoot three weeks from now. And we have a couple people on board already. Nick Stahl's in. Let's go. We've got Elijah for like one month. So let's just start filming and we'll figure out the script. And that's just kind of how they did it back then. People were dumber back then, Craig. I don't know what to tell you. Too much B12. I don't know. That was producer Craig Horbeck. Thanks to Gahow as well. Thanks to Joanna for...

spending so much time in LA with us. I genuinely consider this a gift to me. Thank you so much, Bill. You can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube page as well. And we will see you next week. You have to watch it because you have to see Bill's impression of Ethan Embry with your own two eyes. Maybe I'll bring in Ethan Embry for the future for the, is this movie better off with Sam Jackson? That whole category. Ethan Embry can do it! Thanks, Joanna. Thanks.