‘Creed’ Live From Philly With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
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The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the Bill Simmons Podcast. You can find The Watch with Chris Ryan. You can find The Big Picture with Sean Fantasy. You can find Higher Learning and Midnight Boys on the Ringerverse Pod with Van Lathan. The four of us were in Philadelphia a couple weeks ago for the Cold Weather Tour. We recorded Creed in front of a fantastic audience. We had a great time. We didn't realize later that week, Carl Weathers passed away.

And we would have absolutely talked about him for a while at the top of this podcast. He's not in Creed, but his character Apollo Creed had a huge impact on the movie, obviously, as we dive into and definitely would have talked about his impact on pop culture in America in the 80s and 90s. Four Rocky movies, Happy Gilmore, Predator, Action Jackson, really, really a beloved guy.

and a huge part of my childhood and young adulthood and really all the way through. Not only my 50s, but wanted to give a shout out to him. Rest in peace, Carl Weathers. Here is Creed. I heard about a third fight between you and Apollo. How do you know all this? I'm a son. I want you to train me. Your father was special. I don't know if you are. See this guy here? That's the toughest opponent you're ever going to face.

What's wrong? Hey, somebody help! If I fight, you fight. Think back to everything that's ever hurt you. You belong here. Is this thing on? Yeah. Hello, Philadelphia! Thanks for coming out tonight. Thank you to the Home Depot. I want to introduce to you the one, the only Sean Fantasy. The original Midnight Boy, Van Lathan. Beep, beep!

Philadelphia legend. Either the king or the prince of Philadelphia. Chris Ryan. What's up? Are you from Philly? I am. It's a home crowd for Chris. It's like a home game for you. Home game. You're going to get all the calls from Scott Foster tonight. That's right. CR, we're doing Creed tonight, which came out less than 10 years ago.

Usually we like to, you know, at the rewatchables, we wait a little while, we look at it. Let it marinate. Yeah, pour a nice little glass of wine with it, stare at the wine, stare at the bouquet. Creed is just good right away. It continued to be good. CR. Yeah. Why is this such an iconic Philly movie?

I think it somehow just represents the attitude of the city itself. Just this grinding, like you're sitting under this gray sky, you're running through the streets, you're doing your thing and you're just trying to make it to the top of some mountain. Even if it's not the mountain, it's like you're just scratching and clawing your way to a living, to some kind of happiness. It's just an amazing depiction of the city's psyche in a character.

I'm seeing CR as Adonis Creed right now. Like the whole movie is CR as Adonis Creed. That's right. In more ways than you know, which we'll get into when we discuss it. Van, what's your relationship with this movie? I mean, when I first heard the premise, I thought it was going to be stupid as hell, right? Because...

It doesn't sound like it would make sense to do the movie. There are too many questions at the outset. When did Apollo have time to knock this bitch up? All different types of shit like that. But the movie itself, I mean, it's fast. The movie itself, though, was so unbelievably good. I remember sitting in there about 35 minutes in, I was like, yo, do these motherfuckers got me? I think they got me.

And since then, like it is aged insanely well. Ryan Coogler coming out at that time. Mike, it was like at the perfect time for both of those guys in their careers as well. How about you, Sean? I came out at a weird time, actually, for me and you and Chris, which was between Granlin and The Ringer. And so I didn't have to see movies for work. So I just saw it in a movie theater with everybody else. And it was like three quarters full.

and just grown men crying in the eyes just weeping like falling to their knees and people standing and applauding and uh it was just a genuinely rousing experience and like you said it's still that damn good 10 years later i was so nervous because you know van you have what's your favorite franchise marvel star wars like what if you had to go to what is it um star wars

So this is, Rocky is my Star Wars. Rocky's your Star Wars. Rocky's my, I was never a comic book guy. I was never a Star Wars guy. But Rocky, Rocky 1, 2, 3, and 4, those were my movies. And then Rocky 5, I don't know if it was the most disappointing moment of my life, but it's like in the top six. It was just so upsetting. And I just felt like they ruined the franchise. What upset you about it?

It's terrible. It made no sense compared to the other movies. They made Rocky brain damaged. He ends with a street fight. It was just... So it was like, all right, everybody gets a mulligan. And then they came back in the mid-2000s with Rocky Balboa.

Which, it's like, it's okay, right? You're a little tough on Rocky Balboa. Well, it's like Rocky Karaoke. You still had Star Tension from the previous one. Yeah. So then they announced Creed, and it's like, Stallone's not writing it, but they got Coogler and they got MBJ. And it was like, oh, well, maybe. But I had my guard up. Why'd you have your guard up? Because Coogler and MBJ were there. Because I didn't... What's...

Why is this movie called Creed? What's going on here? This is Rodney's story. What? And by the way, I thought this, by the way. You didn't let me answer. Oh, go, go, please, please.

I've just watched Hollywood fuck this up so many times. And I was actually more nervous for them thinking, oh man, this is what they're going to do after Fruitvale. They're going to try to save this Rocky franchise. And then I actually had MBJ. He came over to my house through the podcast before it came out. And he was so passionate about how good it was. No big deal. Yeah, it was a little name drop. Yeah.

I caught him early. But he was so passionate about it. And then I saw the screener and I was like, oh my God, they did it.

they pulled it off and it's even better nine years later. I think also Sean's point though about the theatrical experience of this was like, it's like Creed and Top Gun Maverick were like the two and the more recent movies were people were saluting the screen and it was just like, this was basically like if you combine Field of Dreams with 300 so that you can just cry about your dad for like an hour and a half and then punch a wall as hard as you can. Yeah.

It was a more innocent time too. Like if you go back to when this movie came out, there were a few other quote unquote franchise movies that came out that same year. It was Mad Max Fury Road. It was Jurassic World, which we make fun of now, but think back to when you first saw that. And then it's Star Wars The Force Awakens and Creed. And these four big franchise stories from our youths that were getting rebooted and they were all somewhere between good to amazing. And we were not burnt out on IP and we were like, hey,

Maybe when we were 13, we were really cool. We were really smart. It's okay to be weeping in the aisles. So I think that's a part of why we were so open to it. They released it on the 40th anniversary of the first movie, which I saw in the theater. I was six years old.

And I did not understand the ending. And we're walking out, and I'm like, did he win? What just happened? And had no idea that this movie was going to start the jogging craze. Make Stallone one of the biggest stars of my entire life. Lead to Rocky II, which I saw in the theater. And I'm not kidding you guys. People were reacting to Rocky II in the theater like they were watching Game 7 of the NBA Finals or something. People were standing up, screaming.

It was such a great experience. And then Stallone became, you know, one of the biggest stars probably the last 40 years. Kind of hits a little downturn, gets old. And this Sean turned out to be the Stallone comeback movie. And to the point where we thought he was going to win the Oscar and then he didn't. Do you want to talk about that now? Yeah.

We should do it. Let's do it now. Because after watching it this time, I'm like, it's kind of a highway robbery that he doesn't get it. He had to have pissed somebody off. He pissed everybody off. When you look at it right now, there's not a better story of... Because you don't get a chance to play the character of Rocky Balboa to come full circle with a character over that many years as an actor. It just doesn't happen that much. It would be like if after Unforgiven, people were like, nice job, Clint.

Good. Good one. I think what, Sean, do you agree with the theory of the Golden Globes kind of killed it for him? I think it's a little more complicated than that, but we can talk about that. You mean just the fact that he failed to thank Ryan Coogler and Michael Jordan? Yeah, so Slack, he wins the Golden Globes. I changed my mind. He didn't deserve it.

Slag gives this whole long speech, thanks a bunch of people, and doesn't thank Ryan Coogler, and people got fucking mad. And they should have been mad. He actually did come back out on stage during the commercial break of The Globes' The True Story and came back to the microphone and thanked them because he knew how much he had screwed up by not... He thanked WME like three times in this speech and didn't thank Coogler. He was thanking mailroom guys. He was like, and then there's Alan in the mailroom.

But I do think it's deeper. There's Adam who works with Alan in the mail room. I do think it was deeper than that, though, which is that it's not that he pissed off one person. It's that he pissed off a lot of people. It's that he was historically a very, very hard person to work with. And he didn't win at the SAG Awards. Are you talking about Van or Sly? Well, one of your key inspirations. Well, when I think about it now, because when I first looked at it, when I first saw it, I was mad because I was like, damn, you ain't going to forgive these motherfuckers, you know, or thank these motherfuckers. But now I think about it.

Think about if you're him. Why would I thank you for you making my shit? - This is like when I make the higher learning. - It's really 'cause like you guys know I never, ever, ever, ever bring up race. It's not something that I do.

This is actually one time where it's more old motherfucking shit than just like, because he's like, I invented these motherfuckers. They should be thanking me or else there would be no free, you know? So he blew it and then he didn't get the Oscar. But I really do think that it was there wasn't wasn't as nefarious as people made it out to be. He became the third actor in Oscar history to get nominated for Best Actor and Best Supporting Actor.

The other two. For playing the same part. For playing the same part. My bad. Al Pacino for Michael Corleone and Tyler Perry for Madea.

No, that's wrong. You just turned the race back up. No, my bad. I had that wrong. Van was on the side of the white guy for like two minutes. Every time you try to do it, they bring you back. It was Barry Fitzgerald as Father Fitzgibbon in Going My Way in the 40s. Yeah. So anyway, he lost to... Let's not shit on Going My Way, okay? That's a beautiful story of Irish faith. Is that true? Of course it's true. Okay.

He lost to CR's guy, Mark Rylance. Yeah, that was really pulling for Rylance there. Bridges Spies. That category also had Christian Bale, Tom Hardy, Sly Stallone, and our guy, Mark Ruffalo. They let it happen, Robbie! Um...

More, I think worse for me than Stallone not getting nominated was Creed not getting nominated for Best Picture. That's the one that, looking back, it was Spotlight won, Big Short, Bridge of Spies, Brooklyn, Mad Max Bureau Road, The Martian, The Revenant, and Room. I'm pretty sure Creed was better than Room. I kind of liked Room, but... It was between this and Room for this show.

Yeah, I don't know if you guys are coming out for Room. Can I make a special request? Yeah. Can Room be the last rewatchables? Solo CR pod. I'll put it down there. Wait, we got to go back to Slice. Sean, you have a thing you love to call the I'm ready to love this guy again movie. Do I? I'm attributing it to you. Burt Reynolds and Boogie Nights. Yeah. Travolta and Pulp Fiction. When stars that become white hot and it kind of fades.

And then they have a little comeback and you're watching them and you're going, God, I love this guy. This, I think, was the biggest piece of the Sly and Rock because he stripped it down. He wasn't like, he wasn't doing any of that stuff. It's a really good portrayal. I totally agree. I mean, very similar echo in the Burt Reynolds situation where a lot of people thought he would win the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for Boogie Nights and didn't win in part because a lot of people kind of thought he was an asshole. But, you know, Sly just...

just didn't do enough roles like this, like this version, this older Rocky. Copland was another one that we loved. Yeah, but he's a very good actor. And he never challenged himself in the 90s. He was always taking on action parts that minimized his ability to, honestly, to emote. But when you watch this movie, you see how gifted he is. I think there's something about this movie that speaks directly to that, too.

As Rocky went on, the films became more about an expression of his physicality. Right? He got super swole. Totally natural, I bet. He got super swole, right? Even Rocky Balboa. Rocky Balboa is a guy who loves boxing, who's like, I want to mix it up with the best guy out there right now. So whether it's Roy Jones or Antonio Tarver, let me get out there and do it. This movie is actually stripped from all of that. You see Rocky...

at his weakest, right? The whole series just charts his career. Right. And so like in this film, it's all about what the character has actually learned and those scars and he actually turned the role on his head, which was pretty fucking awesome to see. The thing that makes this movie work probably is the fact that

in some ways he didn't have as much creative authorship over it. I'm sure he had a lot to do with the way those scenes were put together or whatever, but this is the Rocky movie. He does it right. And he jumps back in for Creed two and gets a co-writing credit, but it takes a lot of humility. I think to just be like, all right, like the only way that this is going to happen is if these guys make the movie and he kind of like lets himself go and throws it all into his performance. And I think it's actually like a pretty vulnerable performance in that way.

way. CR, can you do the Stallone Philly thing for us? The Stallone Philly thing? Like, why is he important to Philadelphia? Yeah, like, where does he rank? What is his relationship with the city over the last 45 years? I don't know. Give it to us. Let's hear it. Stallone, can I be completely honest with you? I think Stallone is like, yours, like, I'm a little bit older than you guys, so I get it like this. Like, Rocky is just like a step...

too old for me. I love Rocky, I love those movies, but the Stallone Philly iconography, I grew up right by the art museum, I've seen that statue more times than I've seen anything in my life. But there's this weird relationship with it where it became the export of Philadelphia for a while was Rocky, you know what I mean? It was him.

But do you associate with him with Philadelphia necessarily? Wait, what should have been the main export then? All right, let's dive into this. Aaron McKee? Yeah. Aaron McKee and Eric Snow? That's right. The Jameer Nelson Delonte will say Joe's team that got jobbed? Yeah. Let's talk about Kugler. Just real quick. You know Philly got real boxers. You know what I'm saying?

I just want to make sure I say that. Shout out, because they got real, you know, Bernard Hopkins could be the motherfucker. You know, they got... Well, the Philly fighter thing was like one of the biggest pieces of the identity. You just hear that, you know exactly what it is. It's just so American to make a fake white boy. Like, when it's like the dopest boxing town in all of America. You know what I mean? They got real... Well, Detroit has a case.

For like over Philadelphia? No. I guess so. I guess they do. I guess they do. New York has a case too. So Kugler does Fruitvale with Michael B. And takes this over. And a big thing for him was the father-son theme. Which...

I think is one of the reasons this movie endures. Not to get super duper serious, but this is an emotional movie, man. I've seen it a bunch of times and each time you get choked up, it becomes like the male Steel Magnolias, basically. There's very few male movies where you're just like, oh man, this one gets me every time.

Paul and Dusty in here. Kugler lost his dad right before the filming. And then Stallone had lost his son about a year before, which they end up working into the movie, which we'll talk about later. But one talk, father, son, you want to talk father sons with me? Yeah. All of you. No, it's I mean, it's a Kugler superpower is finding these big,

obvious stories that we think we know with characters that we think we understand and injecting humanity and personal experience and making them feel real. There's a moment at the end of the movie, right before the 12th round starts, when Rocky and Adonis, Rocky's talking to Adonis about how he never thanked his father. And he says, I love you to him. And it's the last thing that Rocky says to him before he knocks down Conlon is,

And it's just, it's like there's a machine that makes tears happen inside of you whenever that scene plays. It's remarkable whatever it is that they're doing. And that's just great writing, great filmmaking, great acting, you know? And he was 29 when he made this movie, Coogler. 29. So it's amazing. Whenever you're looking at one of these boxing movies, the fighting in the movie is always an allegory for something that's always like what you're fighting for, right? Even the original Rocky.

At the end of the movie, when he loses the fight, he gains Adrian, right? He's like, Adrian, Adrian, Adrian. So really the fight is for him to access the power of his life. It's for love. It's for all of this. In this movie...

Adonis is fighting for his father. He's fighting to be a son. He's fighting to be a part of a family. Like, that's the only reason why he's doing it. He doesn't have to do it. He doesn't share the same hardship. He's fighting for an identity, and that identity is of a son. He gets a father in Rocky. That's very, very important. But at the same time, Rocky gives him his father back.

Because there was a part of Apollo Creed that no one could give Adonis but for Rocky. Because Rocky knew Apollo in a very specific way. So when you look at the movie like that, it's about this kid who's going through this incredible journey to have that connection that everybody is supposed to have and you know that you want.

And then there's the whole idea of you're fighting your dad for most of your life. This idea that you're both trying to become your father, but also fight against and resist that image in your head. It's basically played out in a couple of scenes throughout the movie, most crucially when Rocky comes to see him in jail. And that's when Adonis kind of finally breaks it, but he refuses to let him in until the fight.

It's also the line that he says that is most critical is it's not just that it's a father and a son. It's a father and an illegitimate son. Yeah. And he says to prove that I wasn't a mistake, which is a really powerful idea of a person just not feeling like he's fully accreed. The idea of what does it mean to be accreed is what's driving the movie. But to your point, Sean, he did that in Black Panther too where he basically takes a Marvel movie and makes it about these two brothers, right? Yeah.

I think one of the things that amazes me about this movie is it builds toward him saying, I got to prove it that I'm not a mistake. Right. Which is the most succinct way to explain the plot of the movie, but they deliver it in a way where you're like, Oh my God. Like it's, it's just like a haymaker. Um, he's so good in it. This is, would you say this is the best he's been in a movie van? Uh, Michael B. Jordan. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the only, uh,

Killmonger has got to be right there as well, just because Killmonger is such a force of nature that he overshadows God rest his soul, our beautiful brother. Some of our beautiful brother. I see not all y'all. But he takes that movie from Chadwick Boseman. So that would be the only thing, but this is the most affecting performance by him for sure. Chris, it's without remorse for you, right? It is, yeah. I'm a big Tom Clancy guy.

Well, there's another thing that hasn't aged that well with MBJ because he's so famous now. But, you know, he was Wallace. And then he was on Friday Night Lights. And then he was on Parenthood. And it's like, oh, man, I'm rooting for this. Every time I saw him, I was like, oh, I'm rooting for this guy. Hope he makes it because I love The Wire. And then Fruitvale happened and he became a star. But he still hadn't proven he could carry a movie that was actually going to make money. And then Creed comes out. Now it makes sense. But back then...

we didn't know and he was able to do it. Sean, are you disappointed that Coogler hasn't made more movies? I mean, the era that we romanticize where people are cranking him out, you know, making eight, ten movies a decade and he's made two in the last nine years. Yeah, I mean, I think when we first talked about the movie, it was clear that he's part of a generation of millennial directors, for lack of a better word, that's like

Damien Chazelle, Greta Gerwig, the Safdies, all these exciting young filmmakers. I guess maybe Barry Jenkins and Jordan Peele are part of that class too. It's a pretty good class, by the way. Amazing. It's very exciting to like movies now and have those filmmakers. But he's made, since this movie, two Black Panther movies.

I like both of those movies. I really like the first Black Panther movie. I wish he did more. He will do more. He's going to do more. Hopefully more with MBJ. That whole generation, the movies you were referring to that came out around this time, even with Jurassic World, they were just sucking up indie directors from that world and just putting them right into franchises on their second movie. I was going to ask you guys, do you think that it's the best jump from Sundance movie to big franchise movie ever? Wow. Yeah.

Great question. I mean, as a next movie, it's got to be, right? Right. Because if you, if it doesn't, it seems like some shit that they come up when they was fucking around on Fruitvale, right?

Like they shoot the dice between takes. Hey, let me tell you something. It would be hard, bro. It would be hard if we picked up the Apollo Creed story with that motherfucker grandson or some shit like that. Like the only other one that I can think of is Linklater going from Slacker to Days, but Days was in a blockbuster. Yeah, it was. You know, it's like a cult movie, but it's not like a blockbuster movie. You know one thing about Coogler, though? It's like, to you guys' point...

He really does, he takes all of these movies and puts a lot of himself into them. Like a lot. Fruitvale is the story of Oscar Grant. That's from where he's from. This is a very direct story about fathers and sons. And then even with Black Panther, Black Panther goes straight from Baba Tell Me About Like Where We Come From directly. Oakland, 1990. He puts a lot of this. And it might not be as easy to crank them out that much if they're that personal to you. He's not adapting a ton of stuff.

He might be a little bit more of the reclusive, introspective artist than the guy who floods the block all the time. Yeah, because one of the things I love about Creed is there's pieces of it that almost feel like an indie movie.

But then all of a sudden, we're in the ring for two rounds with one of the great sports scenes anyone's ever filmed. But then you'll have these scenes where they're just lying upside down, him and his girlfriend. You're like, oh, this easily could have been a Sundance movie too. I don't know. I wish he made more stuff. $40 million budget for this made $175 million. Spawned two sequels.

I like Creed 2. We were just talking in the car over here. Creed 3 should have been Creed 2. I think that that would have been a better second movie. That story is more compelling. And then you could save Drago for 3. You made the good point that Creed 3, which is about somebody from Adonis' past coming back looking for a piece of his fame and success, is a very common thing that happens in the second movie. And that would have happened right when he popped, kind of.

I like Creed II more when I saw it than when it's like on now. I'm like, oh, Creed II. Because, you know, it's stupid, right? It's like, it's not that the movie's bad, but fighting Drago's son might be a little too on the nose. You know whose idea that was? Whose idea was that? Sylvester Stallone. See? Yeah.

He cartooned it again, so that's a little too on the nose. But Creed 3, I actually dug. You know what I mean? I liked it too. Yeah, I dug it. I thought it had a lot of twists and turns to it that I wasn't expecting. Okay. Let's do the categories. The boxing in Creed 3 is good. Was it necessary? Was the boxing necessary? No, Creed 3. Was Creed 3 necessary? Is it necessary that we're all here tonight? No, but it's fun.

Was it necessary that you got your heart broken by Rocky V? I saw it in the Sagertown Mall. Went to visit my buddy Jim Grady for the weekend who was going to Colgate. I specifically went so we could go see Rocky V and we reacted like the Detroit Lions fans last weekend after the Sunday games. God damn. Are there Lions fans here? What the fuck?

Do you remember what you did after Rocky V? What did you and Jim do? We got drunk. Yeah. This episode is supported by State Farm. Think about your first reaction after you have an accident. What do you do? You scream, oh no, or man, why did this happen? On the flip side, let's say you buy a new car or you lease a new car. Get in there and it smells great and you're like, man, this is awesome.

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All right, the categories. On the rewatchables, we like to go through categories and break the movie down. First one is most rewatchable scene. I love the opening credits with little Adonis. Do you want, man? You gotta love that. The credit credits? No, I'm sorry. The opening. Oh, okay. The opening with the little boy. It shouldn't work as well as it does, and it's great. When your father died, I was angry for so long. I hurt myself, pushed family away. I don't have no father.

What did you say? I said I don't have no father. That's not true. He passed before you were born, but you had a father. You know? He was my husband. Adonis, I would like it very much if you would come and stay with me. And I like seeing Felicia Rashad. It like, it has to work.

It should have gone badly. If that scene doesn't work, the movie, it has to work. You have to understand the entire reason why he feels the way he feels. Yeah, when his fist unclenches. Has a great hammer moment too with the, you know, what's the name? And then we see the title of the movie, Bam. Donnie goes to see Rocky in Adrian's. Unless you want to put the Andre Ward scene as the most rewatchable.

Oh, you pick who's next with the car key that? Yeah. You put that in? I don't like seeing Donnie get beaten up, but... That scene was crazy. I know it's a good scene, but it makes me sad. Because that happens. Like, you're in there because you know how I be boxing this shit. And just like the moment that you think you're the man, like some 147-pound Mexican jumps in the ring with you and just beats you black and blue. That happens just like that. Yeah.

Do you bet car keys a lot? You want what, my 2010 Ford Accord? Okay, you got to stay. Next scene, Donnie goes to see Rocky in the Adrian's restaurant. This was taken from the 10th round of the first fight, right? Good call. How'd you know that? I heard about a third fight between you and Apollo. Behind closed doors. That true? How'd you hear about that? Who won? It's kind of a secret. What'd you say your name was?

Done. Okay. Well, the girl said you wanted to talk about something? Yeah, I want to talk to you about training me. Training? I don't do that stuff no more. Sorry about that. Listen, it's getting kind of late, kid, so I'm going to close up. How good was he? Apollo? Yeah, he was great. He's a perfect fighter. Ain't nobody ever better. So how'd you beat him? Time beat him. Time, you know, takes everybody out. It's undefeated. Anyway, I got to lock up. So when Mickey died, he came and talked to you, right?

Talked you out of quitting. Took you to L.A. Trained you. Brought you back. I remember the first time I saw this movie.

I was honestly blown away. It's like an incredible format. There's so much going on. And Sly trying to figure out, like, wait a second. Why does this kid know this stuff? How does he know there was a third fight? Why does he know I didn't call Creed's wife and him just putting the chest thing together? Him looking at the photo, he's like, oh, it's 10th round. It's just great. It's just a great four minutes. Time takes everybody out. Yeah. That to me was, when I first saw it,

That was the thing that was like a splinter in my brain. Because you're led to believe that Rocky Balboa is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. They have to redo the mythology. Rocky has to downplay himself and big up Apollo Creed and that your dad's a perfect fighter. Tom beat him, not me. You have to believe that Rocky can beat anybody at the beginning. They just turned the whole thing on its ass. Well, there's a little bit of what we were talking about backstage, which is your Kurt Cobain theory. That Apollo dies young. Laughter

And Rocky lives in his 70s. See, now I have to explain the Kurt Cobain theory. I was just saying Justin Timberlake. I can't speak. Justin Timberlake might have been better off just like in 2012. Oh, my God. Just got kidnapped by a UFO or something. I can't believe it. It was just a theory. Yeah.

Just a theory. Maybe the last 12 years, if he goes out in 2012, we're like, that guy was amazing. You think he would be regarded as our Kurt Cobain if he died? Yeah, Kurt Cobain of this generation. Well, my point is that Apollo died young, so he gets to be remembered as more legendary. It doesn't feel that way. They do build the mythology in the series, though, that this guy was. Like Ali, he was one of the best. He was the best fighter ever, yeah. I love the, I didn't beat him, time beat him is so good. But then...

At the end of the scene, we think we find out who won the third fight, which was one of the great unanswerable questions of any sports movie. They have this ding-ding, and they have the fight at the end of Rocky III, and we never know who won. And Rocky says, Apollo won. I'm not positive I believe it. You don't believe it? I don't know how to feel. You think that their mentorship is founded on lies? No, I... You know, this...

Apollo's illegitimate kid shows up at his restaurant and is clearly lost and wants him to train him and then he's like, hey, who won the fight? Is he going to be like, oh, I knocked your dad out in round two? Like, no. He's like, oh, yeah, your dad did it. You got a glass jaw like your pops. Yeah. Don't get in the ring. So I don't know. I don't know if I... The scene is so much funnier if it goes like that, though. It's like, who won the third fight? I beat the shit out of him. Don't get that motherfucker off.

I broke his orbital bone. It was amazing. I don't know what, what do you think happened, man? You think he, you think he was lying or you think he was serious? I think he, I think he, I think there's probably a large part of your identity that you can't believe that Apollo could ever do, Rocky. So I think that's probably why you have, that's why you have trouble with it. But it, I think that Apollo probably won, but I have some thoughts later on about what happened after they fought.

So, yeah. Later on? Why don't you just do it? All right, save it. Next scene. It's a short one, but so Donnie moves into Pauly's old room. Thank God it has no Pauly. Why do we see the robot butler in that room? Yeah, where was the robot? It was in the closet. And Rocky says, Pauly was my best friend, even though he wasn't so friendly. Right.

It's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about Pauly. But then Donnie sees the picture, and it's a picture of Sly and his son. That's Sly's actual son, and this son had just died, I think, when they were pre-production of the movie. And if you watch, Sly's like...

Really like barely keeping it together. It's like this rare example of like real life and the movie just kind of blending together. It's really good. And in the research that said Kugler was pushing hard to put the picture in and slide and want to do it. And he's like, let's use it. Let's use it and convince them. The next scene is one of the great sports movie scenes of all time. A two round fight with Leo and Donnie that they film in one shot.

And there are no tricks. What's the cinematographer? Maurice Alberti. Maurice Alberti, yeah.

Who did The Wrestler and did some other stuff. And then a lot of independent movies in the 90s. And they shot 13 takes of this scene. And they used the 11th. And holy shit, Sean.

It's like the culmination of 75 years of boxing movies. It's everything that they figured out in Robert Rawson movies in the 50s that Scorsese figured out with Raging Bull that we saw in the 2000s. It took a long time to get to a place where you could choreograph what it feels like to be in the ring. Yeah.

But it is the closest that I think you can get to what it feels like to being in the ring for a round with a fighter. Two rounds, really, with a fighter. I think that the Tijuana stuff is actually the moment when you're watching this movie where you're like, oh shit, this is for real. This is a real boxing movie. But this scene is the proof that Michael B. Jordan can do it. There's no cuts. You're just in it with him. And you're like, this guy is like a... I believe that he is Adonis. I believe that he is doing this. And in many ways, it's the most...

If you're thinking about Fruitvale Station to Creed, the biggest questions you're going to have about Coogler's ability is whether or not he's going to be able to get that stuff right. And he gets it right to such a degree. He's just like, you know, next level talent. All the boxing in this is absolutely top notch. It's a really... So you should frame it maybe in the history of Rocky movies too, because I feel like the final fight...

is a Rocky movie. But that sequence is not a Rocky movie. It feels more like real boxing. It's more tie-ups, counter-punching, not these big swinging strides and huge uppercuts. It's what a match really more often looks like because of the framework. But in the Rocky movies, it doesn't always look that way.

Yeah, it's funny. When the first Rocky came out and it got credit for how good the boxing scenes were, and then you go back and you watch, and it's like the wide shots, you can see all the seats that are empty because they couldn't afford enough extras. He misses some of the punches. And for the time, it was good, but it has not held up great. And I think they got better as it went along. I actually thought the Rocky Balboa movie in the 2000s was pretty realistic with Antonio Tarver. This went to...

a whole other level. I think it's the best ever filmed. And also I love, you know, the way they use the camera where it cuts the Stallone and he's like, now do it now. And then it cuts back and they catch both punches. And then the guy goes down and then it stays with MBJ and he's looking over at Stallone. It's like, we got one rock. We got one. It's just like, I don't know how they did it. It's like a classic,

Wait, how the fuck did they do this? Which is like, you know, one of the sweet spots with any movie like this. Next one. This is right in the heart of Philly. The good luck baby Creed scene. It's short, but Donnie gets into a fight with Tone Trump. Hey man, why don't you come over here and grab this pick on me real quick for the grand. Yeah, that's cool. Come on man, you know you're busy man. Welcome to my city, champ. Believe that. Hey, good looking baby Creed. Don't call me that.

I'll call you that. I'll call you what? You just called me baby Creed. I said don't call me that. Hey, fam, dig this. I was showing you love, man. You ain't got to come off like that. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. That's all love. I know it's cool. You definitely know it's cool. Now, who you talking to, man? You talking real tough. You feel me? You better talk to your little pretty boy boyfriend, man. Get a VIP pass next to your pop talking to me like that. Get out of my house, nigga. Get out of my house.

Do you want to do this now, Van? Well, I was just texting with him because I was asking him to come up here. I was going to have him just bunrush the whole fucking scene. So I was like, yo, what's up? Yeah, I mean, yo, man, it's pretty obvious if you watch the scene that prior to Adonis coming around that Tone Trump was fucking on Bianca. It's like pretty, am I wrong for thinking this? That hadn't occurred to me, no. No, I'm not trying to be like Quaker about it. I just really hadn't occurred to me.

You're joking. Of course. I really literally... Oh, my God, bro. He does... That scene is just the most Philly fight. It's just like two guys who suddenly take offense to each other for no reason whatsoever. And you're just like, wait, why is this light middle heavyweight champion punching this rapper in the face? But there is a reason, though. At a Neo Soul concert. Neo Soul. Yeah.

There is a reason though, because he sees her and he's like, he hits her with a couple of things. How you doing? First of all, the way he's talking to her, man. Talk to my girl in a different way. You know what I mean? And he's like, yo, you don't know nobody no more? And then the way she comes back at him, there's some history there and then there's something else that happens.

He says to him, she goes, "You better tell him what time it is, 'cause I know you know what time it is." She been around him. She done polished them cats up, bruh. You know what I'm saying? She done cleaned the nine. She knows what's going on. Am I wrong for thinking this? - Why do you keep looking at me? - Because you, because you, because you, I feel like there's history. Is there not history between them?

I would say it's one of two things. Either there is history or there's a history of him flirting with her and trying to make a history.

But it's one of the two. She clearly has some sort of background with him. Yeah. But it might not have consummated it. You don't think so? I thought he crossed the line. I don't know. I think he did. He definitely crossed the line. In the world of Creed, is there a file somewhere where Tone Trump has a verse on a Bianca song? Definitely. Hold on. I just thought of something. Yo, I know why she's losing her hearing. She done heard the nine-plus so many times. Okay.

It's residual from the nine pluses. Is that a metaphor? Nah, she did a bop and now her shit is losing. Shout out to her, man. It's a great sound effect. Is this part of everything you were hoping would be so far? Is being called baby Creed insulting? I think he's ready to be insulted by absolutely anything at that point. You can make a case either way. Hey, did you see the Sixers win last night? You'd be like, fuck you, Sixers.

We're 10 and 72! Not the night to bring up the Sixers, Chris. Hey, don't turn on me. I'm trying to protect you guys. You should see Bill's direct deposit just hit Kaminga's account. Kaminga did not take enough shit for that. He did a flying Shawn Michaels elbow on him, basically.

Next one is the jailhouse combo when...

basically apologizing for what he had said earlier, which was not a rewatchable scene, but we're going to talk about it later. And he does the, you hate me, that's what it is. Or maybe you're mad with somebody who ain't here and can't defend himself. You're still caught in the shadow. You got to move. It's a really good Stallone monologue, doubling as the Oscar speech. Yeah, it's the same as the mirror training scene where he's just like, that's the guy you got to fight. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I don't think you're doing enough Stallone tonight. You should do a little more Stallone voice. Yeah.

You know, it's a long night. I'm trying to pace myself. The training scene with bikes and ATVs. Yeah. God damn it, do I get fired up when I watch this. It's so good. I would like the raw cut of Michael B. Jordan without the music, just going like this and just doing this at a window. It's really good. I like how it's very 2015-ish style.

It feels adjacent to the 70s Rocky training stuff that we all grew up with, but it's different. So there's great context for this, which is you may recall as Philadelphians that in 2015, Drake and Meek Mill were beefing. Wow. And Drake was very successful at the time as he is now. But Meek Mill tweeted that Drake does not write his own raps anymore.

Quinn Miller. And then Drake put out like three songs in a row that were just very successful. And everybody's like, ah, Drake won. Drake wins again. And then this movie came out and that scene happened. And everybody was like, fuck Drake. Meek Mill is the man. Do you think that the Billboard charts reflect that? That everybody was like, fuck Drake? Not in this room. Yeah, I know. Some people wake up in the morning and they have like a protein shake and then they get UV rays and then they like do their morning workouts. And I just watched the YouTube clip of this.

I watched all the bikes coming out behind him and he just keeps sprinting to stay on the bikes. It's fucking incredible.

Also wins the Kid Cudi Pursuit Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. Absolute lock. Every sports movie that works and is a Hall of Famer has to have a chill scene, I always call it, where you just get little goosebumps. This movie has a couple of them, but that's a total chill scene. It's really good. I love the press conference, the lead-up to the fight.

against pretty boy Ricky Hanlon with the, you know he's going to start shit, and then he calls him, you're a false creed. You're a false creed. Ooh. Gets the trunks from Ma, gets Rock's pre-fight speech, comes out to Pac, Hail Mary. The Conlon entrance, all of it's really good. You know what has another scene that I really liked? What?

Him shadowing his father when he's watching film. Oh, in the beginning, yeah. That is just... That's another thing. There's so many scenes in the movie that are just emblematic of the entire film. He's watching him. He wants to be him. He's there. He's not quite there. Him shadowing his father. I love that scene. It stuck out to me a lot when I was watching it on this rewatch. Then the entire fight's rewatchable. I mean, you can split it in two parts. Round two's great. I love Sly when he does the, hey, hey, hey.

It's you against you. That's how you just save slides advice. The opponent doesn't matter. You're the opponent. But then when when when Creed gets popped in round 11 and then goes to the corner, the corner tapping his head in the back, we get the I got to prove it that I'm not a mistake. I should have stopped this. Don't be a father. I'm stopping this one now. Don't let me finish. I got to prove it. Prove what? I'm not a mistake.

Look at me. I never got a chance to thank Apollo for helping me out after Mickey died. But it's nothing compared to what you've done. You taught me how to fight again, and I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna fight this thing. But if I fight, I want you to fight too. I want you to go across this ring and knock that son of a bitch down. Can you do it? Say it. I'm gonna knock that son of a bitch down. I know you are. You know why? Because you are Creed, and I love you, kid. I'm done.

You're a creed. I love you, kid. Fucking great. And then the Rocky theme. They were holding it. They were holding it. They were getting blue balls. Are you going to play it? Give it to me. Rocky theme. They finally do it. They're going to play the theme. Come on. They're holding it.

And then in classic Rocky fashion, we had to have just a ridiculous ending that I loved where he knocks him out and we run out of time and either he gets up or the fight's over. I have some thoughts about that later. You want to do that now? No. Okay. And then last scene, the last scene on the steps. Right there, old man? Yeah. Nice view. You know, if you look hard enough, you can see your whole life from up here. How does it look? Not bad at all. And you? Not bad at all. Yeah.

Which is really nice. What do you have for most rewatchable, CR? It's by far the Meek Mill training montage and running up the street. It can't be anything else. I do have some addition. An addition is the Bianca and Donnie going out for their first date when they go get cheesesteaks and then they have a conversation. I had that under the category of most Philly thing about this movie.

It was like, is this movie family enough? What about a cheesesteak date? That also won the Big Ooner Burger Award. Finn, what do you have for most rewatchable scene? Him shadowboxing with his dad and also just the training montage. I mean, that's the mascot scene of the movie. I also feel like the recreation of 24-7 is incredible. Of Stuntman versus Pretty Ricky Conlon. I was like, I want to see this fight now. I was really invested in that storyline too. I feel like we've talked about this before, but

What do you think Liev Schreiber's quote is? Because like, could we just get Liev Schreiber to do 24-7 for anything if we had like $25,000? Would you just be like, Chris Ryan gets up in the morning and checks Twitter?

It's a long day. And now he's on hoops. I really lost a little bit of respect for him. I don't know if anybody in this room... You know what I'm going to say. When he was on Hard Knocks and he showed up and he got off the helicopter and he fanned out over Aaron Rodgers. He crossed the beams, man. And I was like, you're a Liev Schreiber. Get off the camera right now and show some respect. It's just a football player. You narrate football sequences all day long. I thought that was embarrassing.

You say fuck him or flacko. It's kind of the same thing. Next category is Wood Sage. Oh, I have most rewatched by the training scene. Yeah. I mean, come on. Wood Sage the best. I love all the subtle homages to the Rocky series that they do. Just sprinkled through like, oh, that reminded me of that part of Rocky one chasing the chickens. They got it like a million of those.

Can I tell you my favorite of those? Yeah. In the final scene, Kellerman is doing the color and he says, just like Balboa, he's going to the body, but just like Creed, he's trying to go upstairs, which is exactly what the fight is at the end of the first round. What do you have for what stage is best, Chris? I think I have like, actually, this is like a small scene, but I love Rocky's resistance to training Creed for like the first third of the movie.

And I thought all of those scenes were really great, but especially at the van when he's helping unload all the restaurant food and stuff like that and bring all the groceries in. But when he finally comes to the gym, he's just like, I don't know what I'm doing here. It actually is a really effective hurdle for them to get over. It really makes the movie really effective. You got one, Van? Yeah. Emotionally manipulating women as age events. Let me tell you when this happens. So...

He's outside of her door, right? And he's bamming on her door. He's bamming on her door. He's trying to get her to open the door. She's not going to open the door. And what does he do? Rocky's sick. To her credit, though, it's not like she's like, oh, come on in then. She opens the door, you know? It's like, baby, baby, blah, blah, blah. It's like, you know damn well my father never loved me. He's sick.

Now we can start the conversation. So when I saw that, I was like, ah, my nigga. Sean, you mentioned the 24-7. It's true. You saying you picked up some lessons from that? Nah, I'm like, we got the same teachers. We can't leave no bullets in the gun when you're outside the door. You know what I'm saying? You gotta shoot them all. You mentioned the 24-7. Yeah.

I'm just trying to move on. I also love that there's a Creed Balboa supercut too on YouTube. Some of the media touches in this are just really smart. But the 24-7, I agree with Sean. It's absolutely perfect. I was ready to watch six episodes of that. I love the giant Mighty Mix gym poster that they have, that big blue one.

I want that for my house. All the Kugler camera touches, all the little stuff, especially like the upside down, the kiss part and the cheesesteak, how he's filming them in the booths and he's filming each one and like a side of the booth. Andre Ward. Is this the peak Andre Ward van? Yeah, so we're talking 2015. Didn't he win a gold medal?

I'm saying like as a boxer, this is... He retired undefeated. Yeah. But I mean... He won all three belts in two different weight classes. But was this when he was at his best or was that in like 2010? I can't remember. So 2015 would have been around the time that Andre Ward, he had two back-to-back fights against Sergey Kovalev and both of the fights were kind of controversial, but that was the guy he had to dispatch. So that would have been around the same time. Didn't he knock out Kovalev in the first one though? He did. No. Well, the

The first one was a disputed decision. The second one was a knockout, but people thought that the fight was stopped after Kovalev didn't fire back, but people thought that some of those shots were low. But this was probably around the time that he might have been the biggest deal because those fights were just happening. Yeah. Or they were going to happen. Well, here's a good one, Sage the Best. Wood Harris as Duke's son. Yeah. Wood Harris, who ordered...

- Wallace's death. - Incredible. - In "The Wire" as Avon Barksdale.

And is now the one who won't train Donny Creed in Creed. Stroke of genius. This is just, you're just playing for me at this point. You're just mixing my worlds and I absolutely love it. It's like the number one reason to make a sequel is get more Wood Harris. We gotta get this guy back in here. Great Wood Harris. Here's what's aged the best. Sly Stallone was 69 years old when this film was released, which was the same age as Burgess Meredith in Rocky I. What? How about that?

motherfucker looked 175 and he was a day old. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I like Donnie calling Rock Unk. I thought that was, that was, just immediately jumps in on it. He had some hard years. Burgess Meredith. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he looked that way in 1954. Yeah. He was in the Twilight Zone. He was also on the Twilight Zone. He was in the Twilight Zone. Yeah, he looked 200 and something. Everyone smoked back then, though. A lot! That's not why, just Meredith looked like that.

I like Conlon's trainer just in general, I think is really good at this. Oh, yeah. Graham McTavish. And doing the whole, eh, if he changes his name, we have a fight. Just master chess move. What do you think of the 24 jacket MBJ has? I mean, the Nike thing. Yeah, that. I'll buy it. I literally buy the jacket. Was that like a limited edition one or what was that? It's Kobe Philly. Oh, okay.

This was what I was wondering. Let's dive into this, everybody. But Donnie is from California and Donnie's from LA. So it makes sense that he would, he would idolize Kobe. Laura Marion. Yeah. So this is good. You know, when MBJ came to my house, we did a pod. He told a whole story that's on that podcast about Stallone said, you got to take one.

In the fight scene, it's like, what does that mean? It's like, you got to take one. You got to actually take a real punch. That's part of the tradition. I took a punch in every movie we did. Carl Weathers did. Mr. T did. Dolph Lundgren did. You got to take one. All guys, I would want to build my future career around. Yeah.

So when he gets knocked down in the 11th round, that was when he took the punch and he gets clocked and they show it. And he said he saw stars and the whole thing. Did he say you had to take one at the end of the pod? So anyway, the tradition got kept alive. And then any other one stage is the best because I have two more. You guys have anything else?

No, I think everybody, you guys got them all. I mean, I would just say that the fights and the Leo the Lion fight is just, it's aged the best. Yeah. I mean, Winkler Shardoff taking a chance on 29-year-old Ryan Coogler to make an Apollo Creed son movie is, in retrospect, a crazy risk. Yeah, what a fantastic point. It worked so well. Yeah, like the pitch must have been crazy. Like, what a fantastic point.

So Bianca I have as a what's aged the best because I grew up with these sports movie girlfriends that they were always like poorly written or they always existed to just like throw cold water on our hero or just kind of like Adrian standing at the top of the staircase in Rocky IV. You kid. He's like, cool, I'm going to fight this guy. Thanks for the support. Literally, we could give her the rose from Titanic treatment if we wanted to.

I'm in Russia. I was about to call her out her name. I'm in Russia. You, what are you telling me? I need you, baby. This is the whole thing. It's me and you. You don't know that your brother about to fuck off all my money in the next movie. I had to put up with your loser brother. Yeah, I got put up with your loser brother. I took...

You work at a fish farm? What the hell are you doing? I hate it so much. It's so annoying and bothersome. Well, she shows up eventually and then plays a pivotal role when he's lifting the giant log seat thing with her, Pauly, and Duke. Now, here's the thing. Rocky was in Russia. It was a lot of Brigitte Nilsons over there. He'd have been rolling. He'd have been like, slide to the side. Let me see what's up. I don't like that part.

Anyway, I appreciated that Bianca. Bianca was a real character that they actually tried to put some effort in and had some things to her. We will talk about her Philly accent in a different category, though.

And then Tony Baloo as pretty Ricky Conlin, a real fighter who ended up winning a title a little bit later. But he's in a bunch of categories, but for the most part, I thought he did a pretty good job acting. He did a good job acting, and it's also like just complete Everton propaganda on the part of Stallone, who's a huge Everton fan. You didn't like that? I was fine with it, but I noted it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

PTI leading in the A block with a boxing match? How many times has that happened in the history of PTI? Is this a nitpick? No, it's what's aged the worst. It's like PTI. We're not even in what's aged the worst yet. Why are you jumping categories on me? Jesus, you're just ripping corn eyes off for no reason. They should get paid too, just like Liev Schreiber. Chris, what do you got for Great Shot Gordo for the most cinematic shot?

I have two that I thought were the Leo, the lion, lion, water, like the whole tracking shot throughout that first fight. And I actually love the first intro shot of Creed into you want to like taping up his, taping up his hands. I like the ATVs in slow motion. Yeah. Add those two. I got the walkout. Do you think Gordon Willis would have done anything differently with those ATVs or probably, probably wouldn't have thought of the slow-mo. Um,

The Mighty Mix gym I had for the scene-stealing location, too. All right, so the Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character Was Actually Good at His Job, named after Vincent Chase, the star of Entourage Who Couldn't Act. I am giving this to Tone Trump. LAUGHTER

Repeatedly calls a professional boxer Baby Creed, hits on his girlfriend in front of him. Oh, you don't know North Philly. Says, welcome to my city, champ. Every single thing he says is provocative and then leads to, you're going to get a VIP pass next to your pops talking to me like that. That is aggressive. That one cuts a little close. And guess what? He got punched right in the face.

This is cultural. He don't give a fuck about all of that. He doesn't care. And really, he threatened his life right there. You know, you take the shot, whatever, but he really would not care. What's his job?

He's a rapper. So I feel like he's spitting. I feel like he's good at his job, right? His job is to just start a fight before his own show with a professional boxer? Oh, excuse me. Adonis started the fight. Adonis got...

emotional for no reason whatsoever. The dude actually, he looked at him and said, I'm trying to show you love, whatever. And then at that point, that whole thing is Adonis' fight. I gotta be honest with you. Adonis is very emotional. And he's emotional for three movies. He is. Adonis is very emotional. Who else would you give? If he doesn't get it, who gets Vincent James? This is really easy. It's the ring doctor in the Conlon fight who has a future as an independent neurologist for the NFL. That's right.

Tap, tap, tap. Oh, I did it. He gives a look like he knows the cut. Like he knows it's happening. He knows. He knows. He lets him go back out there. He looks, oh my God. It's so funny because Coogler's like, just in case you guys think he can see at all, he can't. It's blacked out. They're just like, tap, tap, tap. That's good. I like it.

Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link of the film. I don't like when Rocky turns on Donnie for like three minutes there and he says, we're not a real family. That was just an archer's kid.

it's just out of nowhere and it's mean and I just don't he doesn't want to let him get close just like he was close to Adrian though that it does make sense he's like if I let you in this is gonna hurt you like it hurt me but Rocky was too was for every single Rocky movie was just like a nice guy and that I felt like he's being a nice guy in that scene in a way what do you think Sean

I mean, he's in a bitter part of his life. He's all alone. Everyone has left him, right? He's at a really sad state. So he's raging. You know, I get it. Because you're a Jets fan, you get it? Did he like it or he didn't like it?

What? You like it or you didn't like it? I like it. It was fine. Yeah, I mean, Rocky just abandoned his restaurant to train this dude he just met. Do you think Rocky is cooking? I don't know what's going on with the restaurant, but we don't even see nothing that happens at the restaurant. Rocky just leaves the restaurant so he can turn his back on anybody at any time. You think the food is any good in that restaurant? Yeah.

At Adrian's? Yeah. Yeah, what is it? Like, just like basic Italian? It's got to be red sauce, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think the idea is that Rocky comes out, you take a picture, he signs the thing for you, you have your pasta with clams. What would you get, gabagool? So it's like, I got food poisoning last night at Adrian's? Yeah. I got this sick picture with the champ. I'm still puking. What's age the worst? The age stuff. We just got to do this now. So...

We know that Apollo dies in 1985 because the Christmas fight with Drago and Balboa where Rocky went to Russia and fought for no money in Rocky IV. It's the most improbable moment in the history of sports movies. No money. Don't even donate to charity. Just let Russia profit from it. So even if it's summer 1985 for Creed dying at Drago's hands...

then that means Donnie's born in 1986, which makes him 29 at the time of this movie. Does that add up for you, Chris? It does not, but it's not the only thing in this film that somewhat doesn't add up, so it's okay. Is it possible that Adonis' mother is a black Russian? No, because... Wow. This is the type of bullshit I like to hear.

Apollo literally went there and found the one motherfucking dick that they got. I think they should have probably said it in 2010. Because I feel like Donnie in this movie is like 25. My only question is how do we know that that fight took place in 1985? The movie came out in 1985. But how do we know that that fight took place in 1985? So you're saying it took place in the future? I'm saying it took place...

In 84? No, maybe it took place in 88. Is Creed definitively set in 2015? I guess not, but the kind of music that Bianca plays was becoming popular in 2014-15. So that would be the hint. All right. Chris, you want to talk about Bianca's Philly accent?

I think it's not the accent as much as the vocabulary. When this first came out and she said "Johns" I was like, "Holy shit, I feel so seen."

This is happening in a major mainstream film. And now every time I see it since then, I think John's has become so popularized and shared throughout the world that it kind of grates a little bit. There's also the specificity of cheesesteak orders is obviously very hotly debated on the internet. I don't know. Do people just... Do you guys think that Bianca's cheesesteak order is Philly accurate? No.

So that seems like something they could have gotten right really easily by asking a Philadelphian, but... Chris, you were right there. All they had to do was call you. I don't know. So what was the right cheesesteak order? What did she do wrong? I really want to know more about this. It's usually Whip Whiz, right? Yeah, I mean...

- Yeah, and she's just like cheese and mayo. It just seems like she's throwing ideas out there. - Can I say something real quick? So I will say that the filmmakers were probably confused, 'cause if you ask 10 different people from Philly, they say 10 different fucking things. If you ask them where to go, like, hey, so last night I'm on the old Twittersphere, and I'm like, where should I go? So this is what happened, I told Bill this earlier. I was gonna go out and explore Philly at night last night,

And people were like, don't do that. You will be killed. And so I actually door dashed.

the cheesesteak last night. I like that I went out, but you didn't. I went out by myself to get dinner from the streets of Philadelphia. We asked different people. We did. We have different risks. Your info might be better than mine. Right. So when I asked different people, and different people were not only telling me where to get the cheesesteak from, different people were telling me what I had to have on it. So I ended up being...

Fucking cheesecake confused. Cheese steak confused. I don't know what to do. You were Justin Timberlocked when it came to the cheesecakes. I was Justin Timberlocked, yeah. I got it from Iska Bibbles. Hey, but see, it's like only one third of the crowd did that. You know what I mean? It's just like...

So, Morwood's aged the worst. So, Rocky admits that he never called Apollo's widow ever again after he gave the speech at the funeral. Bro, oh my God. What the fuck, Rocky? I know he had brain damage for like 15 years and then it went away, but he could have like checked in. You're looking at me? Like, I'm not Rocky. I'm just upset. I think a guy like that, probably big hands, not really good at texting. Yeah.

So he's just like, hey, Marianne, just checking in. How you doing? Will you call Eileen when I die? Like after I'm dead, will you call her? Yeah, and I'll be like, just so you know, I'll be taking over the big picture as was planned out. Some of Rocky's choices. I mean, he turns his money over to Rocky V. He turns his money over to a guy that Pauly knows.

It's like, oh, Apollo's got a guy. So dumb. First of all, isn't Rocky guilty, though? Doesn't he feel guilty that maybe he... I mean, he essentially killed Apollo, right? Listen, Rocky 100% killed Apollo. She's upset about it. That's what I'm talking about. She's pissed at your...

determination here, Bill. He says the reason he's guilty, he wasn't called because he's guilty, right? Because he murdered Apollo? He feels bad. He didn't stop the fight. Yeah. I'm aware. Check in with the widow. Hey, how you doing? Merry Christmas. Do you think you should send cards that's just like, everything's going well at the restaurant? What?

Just got a new chicken parmesan. Ed Rendell came in. We took pictures. You watching The Sopranos? Pretty good. Another one's aged the worst. This movie's, it's like 12 minutes too long, but I also wouldn't cut it. 12 minutes, motherfucker? 20 minutes? I get the movie is too long thing is your bit.

Yeah. 12 minutes? It slows down a little bit in the middle. A little bit. Which 12 do you want to yank, Bill? I don't know. I just said I don't know where to... You're the one who wants to take colors of the flower moon and shoot in the sun. We had a bit of a debate backstage. Yeah, we had a bit. We got uncomfortable. Did it get uncomfortable? Not for me. No, Sean loves that. Sean's from Long Island.

As the Embiid meniscus tear news hit, these guys had like a 10 minute argument about Killers of the Flower Moon versus The Flash. And I was just like, this is... None of this is fake. This is who we really are. And I was on Twitter, Twitter searching LeBron trade because it feels like, yeah, you guys getting LeBron? Do you...

Do you want him? CR, LeBron, you want him here? Bring Butler! Bring Butler back? Bring Jimmy back? Is that what you're saying? That would be fun. See, Jimmy was the perfect Philly guy. He was. They really fucked that up. Bring Simmons back. No. He said it. Oh, no. This is going to cause a riot. He said it.

Any other what's aged the worst for you guys? Yeah, just in general, you don't see a lot of printing out resignation letters and handing them to your boss anymore. It's like overly formal by Donnie. He's like, you can put this in an email, man. Like, yeah, you just got your cubicle. We're not going to put up a plaque. And I was wondering, we haven't talked about this. It's not like it's, I guess, somewhat delicate subject. You guys like Donnie dumping out before the fight.

No. Yeah. It's like one of those things in the movie, you're like, it's humanizing. And then I'm like, I don't need to see this every time I watch Creed. Disagree.

It's weird because it's not like him and Bianca had been together for three years. Exactly. Yes. Oh, he scares her. She leaves. Yeah. She gets right out of the room when she knows it's coming. Also, one last thing is just Donnie, when Bianca and him are having the fight on the street, which is actually a great scene, the argument that they're having on the sidewalk, he's like 100% honesty from here on out. And that does not play out over the course of the sequels. Yeah. He lies to her several times. One other small thing.

Boxing? Where's boxing at right now in the culture of America? Oh, it's just a what's aged the worst? Yeah. Interesting is I think it's, I mean, it's obviously it's aged poorly since Rocky came out. You could argue that over the last couple of years it's on the small upswing. I feel like it's as small as it's been in a hundred years. That's definitely true.

That's no doubt true. I mean, it used to be, like, I could ask you guys right now. I mean, it used to be that, like, the heavyweight champion of the world was the most popular athlete in the world. So, you know. I wonder if they remade this in 2024, would it be MMA and not boxing? I think.

But they try MMA movies, and I'll be honest with you, for some reason, MMA just- No, Warrior is amazing. Warrior is Rocky MMA. But it's just not, it's a good movie, but it's just, it doesn't capture people. Will you be watching Roadhouse with Conor McGregor? I definitely will. I'm excited. Me too. I'll definitely, but it doesn't capture people as much as boxing still does. It seems like boxing still has a better story to it.

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Was there a better title for this movie? I'm going to say no. Absolutely not. All right, it's time. The Stephen A. Smith hottest take award, where we each say a take that we may or may not believe. CR, start us off. Should this movie be called Wheeler?

Don't we just skip the fact that Conlon breaks this guy's jaw and like he doesn't get his shot at the title and there's no retribution for Conlon because he's already going to jail for his gun charge in Everton. So I just feel like there's like a whole like what's Wheeler's like attitude about the fact that this kid slingshots into like the public consciousness and he's like, all I've got is my gold medal and a broken jaw. That could have been the sequel. Yeah. I mean, for sure.

What do you got, Van? So I thought about this when I watched it this time. Oh, no. Put your seatbelts on, everybody. This is my hottest take. I think that Rocky and Apollo fucked after the third fight. I had, like, a hot take, too. I thought it was really weird. It was a great one, Sean. I think when I look at the movie through a West Hollywood perspective...

I see different things, you know, like there's something between Donnie and Rocky to where there's a thing. He's like, who won the third fight? He won. Yeah, he won. There's something else. Why wouldn't you call for 30 years? Why don't you want to talk to this man's wife? Broken hearts. Yeah. So it's not that there's something else. These guys beating the hell out of each other.

Running on the beach together. I went back and I watched the scene. There's something happening, baby. So this is not about Rocky becoming Adonis' father. It's about him becoming his mother. His mother. Exactly. Now you with me? I watched it now and I'm like, there's something that's different. And guess what, guys? I know it's okay. I'm fucking with it. I'm here for it. So that's what I'm saying. That's my hottest take. I think there's something else at work there.

You got applause. Just let me know. Just let me tell you something right now. Sean, do we even try to follow that or just move on? I thought this was good, but I guess it's not. I think Creed should have won at the end. Like they should have let him win. And honestly, Rocky should have won at the end of Rocky. And I know that this is part of the mythology now. And then we thought it was such a bold choice creatively. The moral victory, yeah. But I'm rewatching Creed and I'm like, just fucking let this guy win. Like what? Wouldn't it have felt even better? Yeah.

If he had won? I honestly sometimes forget that he loses because it basically plays it like he wins. You know what I mean? Right. It sets up the sequel. But that's the only reason why. And doesn't that feel cynical? My hottest take is not as good as Vance. I think this is the best reboot of a movie franchise ever. You know, I was asking this.

I don't think anyone's done it better in more ways, like using the history of the movie, keeping a character integral to it, reinventing it, making it feel modern. I don't think it's been done better. The only thing I was thinking, I had it written down, best legacy sequel of all time. The only thing I would say is Blade Runner 2049, and then also fucking, I got the year wrong, also Top Gun Maverick.

That's the only two that I was thinking about. Top Gun Maverick has got to be up there. But the thing is, Top Gun wasn't a franchise. There was one movie and then it's basically a sequel. They made six Rocky movies. Cobra Kai is good. Cobra Kai is a good one. That's a good call. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Cobra! Batman!

Batman? Oh, the Nolan Batmans? Batman? The Nolan Batmans. Yeah, maybe. Which Batman? There's like 30 reboots of Batman. Dark Knight, I guess.

I'm just saying shit. Ever since the cheesesteaks, it's like Jerry Springer in here, yeah. Casting what ifs. So I don't think there's been enough time with this movie yet because part of what casting what ifs after like 15 years, it's like, oh, Omar Epps was almost Creed and they start making shit up. We don't have...

We don't have anything yet except for... Meryl Streep was up for Bianca, but couldn't do it. So you never know what to believe. The only thing, the reason Felicia Rashad was in this was because Apollo's wife, who was played by Sylvia Mille, she actually died. Passed away, yeah. Yeah, so that's why they had to recast. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge... Overacting award.

Don't call me lady! I love MBJ in this movie, but when he's in the basement and he's like, I'm going to fight Rickie Hanlon. I'm going to fight Rickie Hanlon! He dials it up a little bit there. Yeah. The only other one I got is Kellerman. You know, take it down a notch. Geez, hasn't he taken enough shit the last year and now you've turned on him too? I like Kellerman. It was just like, he's doing maximum Kellerman. Your Stephen A. Smith hottest date could have been fuck Max Kellerman. Yeah, exactly.

It wouldn't have been a Don and Apollo fucked Rocky, but it would have been close. It would have been better than We Are. That was a great one. Best That Guy Award, Leo's dad, what's his name? It's Richie Koster from Black Hat. Is he not a That Guy? He is the That Guy. The craziest thing about that actor, who's in True Detective as well, for the second season, is that That Guy is from England. That guy is definitely from Philly. Yeah.

That's some of the best acting I've ever seen. That and Graham McTavish who plays a dwarf in The Hobbit. Yeah. And I'm sure has many other credits. Yeah. This will be fun. The Danny McBride Award for excelling at playing yourself. Our nominees, Will Bond and Cornizer. Jim Lampley and Max Kellerman are atone Trump.

Or Schreiber. Oh, or Liam Schreiber. So I'm going to give it to Donald Trump. But at the same time, I feel like Kornheiser, and I feel like they just threw it in there. Oh, I think it's LeBron and Kornheiser. That is like an actual PTI segment. Yeah, Kornheiser's getting mad. Right. Yeah. No, it's great. All right, Dion Waiter's award for best heat check. Kornheiser, LeBron, eligible. Leo's dad, Felicia Rashad. When LeBron's like, we all make mistakes. Sometimes you fuck them.

in Russia, you know? It happens. What are you talking about? Tone Trump. Who do you have for Dion Waiters? I got Richard Costner. For Dion? Yeah, Leo's dad? Yeah. Okay. Bro, I got Wood Harris.

Wood Harris comes in for one second and cuts this motherfucker's whole life apart. He's in there like, shut up, Creed. Go back to L.A., rich boy. That's all he does. Don't you think Wood Harris is sitting in just tatters when he sees what happens to Creed? Well, I mean, he comes back. I know. Yeah, but he's just in the scene for one deal and he heats it up. Is Ricky Conlon eligible for that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, he's in the movie a lot, though. He's like, my dad walked on the docks.

Your dad is creepy. It's an incredible Scouse accent. I liked it. Thanks. Am I in a comedy club? New category just for the live shows. Not sure if you guys are aware of this. What would Tony Romo's director's commentary for this movie sound like? Chris, you want to take a crack? It's going to happen! It's going to happen!

She's got progressive hearing loss but she can hear it! Romo. What a tour for Romo. Yeah, it's been great for him. Rocky's got cancer, Jim! It's gonna be tough! This is a huge disease! Refusing treatment, Jim! It's the formula of law choice! He's got a new chemo, Jim! Half-ass Philly internet research. Victor's Cafe in South Philadelphia is our location for Adrian's.

Mighty Mix Gym is on Front Street. The place that Adonis and Bianca go to eat is a well-known place for cheesesteaks called Max. You guys know all this shit. Half-Assed Internet Research, just a couple. At one point, Donnie wears a shirt that says, why do I want to fight? Because I can't sing and dance, which is an homage to the ice skating date in Rocky I.

Stallone was the one who wanted MBJ to wear the flag trunks. That was, uh, him being magnanimous. The gravestone for Polly Panino born in November, 1940 died February, 2012. Not sure if you guys caught that, uh,

Probably not a lot of people at the funeral, I'm guessing, for falling. One robot. One of the least redeeming characters. A gravedigger and a robot. Or a robot gravedigger, you know, if you wanted to. A mostly horrible guy who Rocky just would not give up on. MBJ gained 24 pounds of muscle and learned to box. And then our guy who played Ricky Conlin, Tani Baloo.

He won the WC Cruiserweight title. Oh, he is a fantastic fighter. Like eight months after this movie came out. By KO in the third round. It's a good YouTube clip. All right. Apex Mountain. Ryan Coogler? No. No. MBJ? Maybe. Yes. What's the alternative? Say yes. It would be, the alternative would probably be Black Panther. It's this. Yeah. Coming out of Creed, it's like he could make any movie he wants. Tessa Thomas? Tessa Thompson? No. No. I wouldn't say so.

What is it for her? Not this. What is it then? I just don't feel like this is her. Not her best work. Valkyrie? Valkyrie, I just feel like she's had more significant things than this. Chris, was Apex Mountain for Johns? Cinema history, yes. Okay.

How about our guy Tony Blue? Probably winning the title. Yeah. I'm going to say it's better. Stallone, no. Honestly, I had never heard of Tony Blue other than this movie. So maybe it is this movie. Oh, he's like great cruiser. Like you said, cruiserweight. He had a great fight with Usyk. Like a really, really great fighter. Like one of the best. This was my apex mountain for Pauly because I never liked Pauly. HBO 24-7.

Yeah. Could be. I mean, they have some really great episodes of it, but yeah, this is... Considering Creed's going to be watched for the next 40 years and I don't even know if 24-7's on anymore. HBO Boxing, done. All right, Chris. Philly movies? So, you asked me... I asked Chris to come up with a Mount Rushmore for Philly movies, so here we go. Let me just do this because I spent a lot of time thinking about this. Let's let Chris cook. Get out of the kitchen, everybody. I think my number one is Locked Up. I'll go in descending order. I'll go Sixth Sense, Rocky,

Blowout. Trading places and then there's the number one with a bullet. And it's Super Bowl 52. How dare you? When he texted me he was like come up with a Mount Rushmore for Philly movies. He's like I fucking got a Mount Rushmore. God damn it. Well we won six. Apex Mountain for Tone Trump.

I think this podcast has been Apex Live for Tone Trump. Shout out to my man Tone Trump. Tone Trump did a lot of stuff in the community. Probably not. How about Max and Lampley?

They call so many great fights. Yeah, I don't think it is. Any other Apex Mountains, Sean? This is the Apex Mountain for Creed movies. It's also the Apex for real boxers in movies. You have Tony in this one. You have Gabriel Rosado in this one. You have Andre Ward. You have so many actual real boxers in the film. It's the Apex Mountain for that. They get good performances out of all of them.

All right, we're going to pick some nits. What was Adonis doing with his business job from like age 23 to 29? What was the job? I had this for unanswerable questions. Would you let Adonis Creed manage your wealth?

Because it's like he's working at a financial services company, right? Yeah, Tony, I was trying to get a hold of you. Where were you? I had that stock. Oh, man, I was in Tijuana. Again. I have a broken cheekbone. Just kind of unexplained. You want to pursue this, Sean? Well, I mean, if you think about it, I would want my stocks to be traded by a guy named Don Johnson. What?

Oh, shit. Don Johnson. Don Johnson. I mean, Don. I'm sure he's Don. He's Don. It's Don. I have a bunch. Chris, what do you have for pick and nits? Oh, I'll save mine. So midway through the movie, Rocky and Donnie are walking down the street and Adonis kind of out of nowhere does a Marlon Brando Godfather imitation. But Talia Shire is in Godfather.

- Oh, a beam cross, wow. - Little stream cross there. We kind of break the seal. - Okay. - So she can't be in Godfather and in the Rocky movies. - You're the same person who likes Oceans 12. - Sure, like, yes. - Van, what do you got? - This motherfucker just don't have enough fights, man. It's just not gonna happen. Like, he just don't have enough ring time. - Yeah. - You know, going down there and doing this thing down there, I know his daddy was creating everything.

But this guy's getting his brain rattled. He's getting fucked up. That's the biggest nitpick about the movie, even though Francis Ngannou kind of made it reality. But that's the biggest nitpick. He just don't have enough fights. He's getting killed. Yeah, my nitpick is about boxing in Tijuana. How does that work? You just go down there and you're like, I'd like to box. I'd like to have 15 fights. Actually? Strangely? Yes! Yes!

Like, dudes in the gym be like, yo, man, I'm going down to Tijuana this weekend. Like, you pay somebody $5,000 or $10,000 and some dude will jump out of a cab into a ring and give you a third round knockout. It's facts. This is something you did? No, never.

Ring our podcast? Should we start covering Tijuana boxing? Tijuana Knights. I have a nitpick. Sly recovers from cancer and flies to Europe like three minutes later. It's like the tubes are still coming out of his arms and he's just on a cross-country flight ready to train a boxer.

Everything just happens really fast in this movie. Bianca's in the locker room with them pre-fight. They weren't dating, then they were dating, and then all of a sudden she's back right before the fight, and then she's just in the locker room. I know one person in Philadelphia. Would you like to come watch me box? And you think she shows up and it's like, wow, this is a very VVVIP pass. I'm in the locker room. Ricky Conlin is just out of shape in the big fight.

He's about to go to jail. He's got a gut? Yeah. Like, what's going on? This is an HBO fight. Yeah. He's got a glass jaw, too. Took a shot. Went down. Ricky Conlin, overrated? Overrated. And then my last one is just the makeup guy for Donnie's left eye. It's like, where his cheek is. Yeah. I just don't know why they did it that way. It always bothers me. What else do you have, Van?

Man, he just changed his last name, said fuck his mama. You know what I mean? He had his mama's last name the whole time. He changed it for the fight. I was just kind of like... He went Creed Johnson, Johnson Creed, so I'm hyphenating it. Did he? Yeah, because both names are on the shorts. Oh, I didn't pick up that part. I was like, if it was Creed hyphen Johnson, that would be the movie. Creed hyphen Johnson.

Any other pick and nits? At the end of the fight, after the result, and Conlon's like, wear that name with pride, do you really think Donnie would be like, respect, thanks? Like, they've exchanged some pretty harsh words with each other. Yeah, boxing's weird. They always forgive each other at the end of the fight. But he looked at him and said, you're the future of this division. Like, what? That don't be that cool. How long is his stretch? Like, how long will he be serving? Seven years. Seven years? Yeah.

For one gun? It's England, though. England as a normal country and then also... It was the only gun in England. He had the one gun. It's like an old revolver that he found. Next category is sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast or untouchable. The Rocky series checks all the boxes. Unbelievable. We rarely get that one. Have I told you about my movie? My movie idea for this? What is it? Okay, so here's the way I look at it.

Alright, so you never just have one bastard. Like that's actually the title of Van's upcoming book. Yeah, my memoir. So you never just have one bastard, right? If you have one, you normally have like Sean Kemp, 5, 6 of them motherfuckers, right? So my idea is Adonis Creed is the Nick Fury of assembling a team.

Of bastards. Oh. All of Creed's bastards, right? Yeah. Inglorious bastards. Inglorious bastards. And so you think about the scene. I'm going to say the scene. Interior, boxing gym. There's a young man sitting down, Terrell. He just went 10 tough rounds. Out of the shadows, Adonis Creed steps in like Nick Fury. Son, you've just stepped into a world and you have no idea how deep it goes.

It's three girls. It's two boys. The Creed bastard boxing team. Whole limited series. Are you watching that, Bill? It's incredible. I'm in. This is a movie that had a sequel. Two sequels. A couple of them. And more to come. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? This is a tough one for me. Probably Stallone.

Coogler. I think Coogler. But Coogler would have to beat some crazy people in that category there. There's like a 10% chance at best that this movie was going to be good. Like, in almost anybody else's hands, this movie would have sucked. Everybody who doubted it would be good before we sat down to see it. All right, you changed my mind. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Catherine Hahn, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Michael K. Williams?

Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Tony Romo, or Philip A. Hall. What do you got, CR? What if Wayne Jenkins was present during the original training, like in the little backyard? He was like, God, I was working with old McDonald's! What the fuck does chasing chickens have to do with being the light heavyweight champion of the world? We gotta update your training manual, man! Get you some Andrew Huberman videos! Now let's go fight Pretty Ricky before that guy's born!

It's a great bit, Jim. The Andean Red Zoan Airword, what happened the next day? Well, unfortunately, we know. It was Creed II. Probably unanswerable questions. Can I ask one for the crowd here? Yeah. So let's just say this is taking place in 15, right? Eagles go 6-9 last chip season. 10-72 Sixers season. Would Creed save your life?

Like, would Creed honestly give you a reason to get up in the morning if this fucking kid came out of nowhere and was fighting? It would be the biggest Philly sports story of the year. It would just be, like, unreal. This isn't related to my CR take about this movie, which is that Creed does the reverse CR, which is that he goes from Los Angeles to Philly to Liverpool.

Oh. Which is what your family has done over the arc of time. Bizarro CR. Where the fuck was Rocky Jr. during the chemo? Vancouver. His dad is getting chemo. He has cancer. He's like, ah, you know, the Canucks have a big series coming up, Dad. Can we FaceTime? Asshole. Fight your expensive gym!

You think it was like a Milo Ventimiglia? Like he couldn't, he was busy with his, with This Is Us or something? He could have made a cameo. Did Tone Trump delete the picture of him and Donnie after the fight or keep it? Because they did take the picture. Did he put it on the gram? I have no clue. I should really call him, man. I think he puts it on the gram. I should FaceTime him right now. Did he put it in a folder along with the photos of him and Bianca? Is Adonis Creed the most successful outcome of the process, Chris?

Same era, 2015. It's not to be like January 6th up in here. What? It was the same time. That was when you had Robert Covington and... No? Any other unanswerables? How much money does Marianne have?

How? The only thing we know is she lives in a giant dark house that has no lights on ever. So did Adonis grow up rich? I think he did, yeah. But that's what Ricky says. He doesn't know shit.

Well, I mean, but let's just say, like, everybody seems to think that he's come from privilege, right? Like, that he's come from, like, a pretty good background. I mean, she had the big house and stuff. I mean, I guess Apollo made a lot of money, and then he... But he had all those bastards that you were talking about, you know? Yeah. He had to pay for all that. But, I mean, obviously, they wouldn't cost him no money. Oh, yeah, maybe she took Rocky's money. What's the best double feature choice with this movie? I go Field of Dreams. Dickstown!

Dixtown. Dixtown. Honey World, Palma. I like Fat City. I'm going Rocky IV first.

Rocky V, Rocky VI never happened. We go right to Creed. It's perfect. It works out great. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? It's obviously the trunks. The answer is always the trunks. I would like that giant metal weight that they press on his face to make the swelling go down. Just to have it on Sundays? Yeah, just to see what else we can get up to with that. Yeah.

I like the Mighty Mix Jim's poster, too. You like anything you would have taken, Sean? That Mustang. That was all I was going to say. The Mustang is cold. Coach Finstock, a word for best life lesson. Don't let someone make you feel like you were a mistake, which is...

A pretty great theme. And then who won the movie? Well, that's the only lesson we can't... I'm just... That was the best lesson. The best one? Well, mine is obviously hit it raw. Don't wear condoms. Because if Apollo had done that, you don't have a movie. We were ending with Field of Dreams and don't let anyone tell you you're a mistake. He wasn't a mistake. He lived out his legacy. Who won the movie? I have Kugler. I do too. What do you have, CR? I have Stallone.

It's probably got to be Stallone for me. Stallone? Stallone? Coogler or Stallone? That sounds like Stallone. Kind of split decision. All right, everybody get out your pieces of paper. Write down your answers. Someone will come around and collect them. All right, we're done with the podcast. I have a Philly question, though. Who's in pole position now of the four teams? Who's most popular? Phillies are one? Phillies one, Eagles two?

Eagles won. Can we do a crowd noise to see who's... All right, how many people say Eagles? You're in hell. And how many people say Phillies? Wow. See, I didn't know this. Sierra never tells me anything. Have they put that felon Chase Utley in prison yet? And Bryce is the guy right now? All right.

Those are my Philly questions. Hey, we loved coming to see you guys. Thanks for coming out. Hope you had a great time. Thank you, Philly. And thanks to the Home Depot as well. Good to see you guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. It is produced by Craig Horlbeck. As always, if you want to watch the entire episodes that we did on the cold weather tour, you can do it at youtube.com slash Bill Simmons. We have a bunch of old rewatchables episodes on there as well and some clips and all kinds of things. So go check that out.

Coming back next week with probably the last live podcast, unless we end up, I don't know, getting frisky and just doing a new one. So we will see you in a week.