20. Tiffany Sabourin - The Campus Decapitation
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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Oh, we've received so many emails from you guys, which was so fun. A lot of them were just dancing gifs, which I'm really happy about. So thank you. Shouts out to you guys. The case today is actually another recommendation and it's a really good case. So I'm like really happy that it got sent in.

Also, thank you to everyone who has followed us on our social media and participated in the threads that's going on in the comments. It's really, really fun for me to see everyone talk like it just makes me feel validation that everyone likes what I like and that we can all agree and talk about the same things. I just finally feel like I have a lot of friends, which is nice. Yeah, it's been really fun.

A reminder that if you do enjoy this episode or any of our episodes, please shout us out, leave us a review, whatever it is that you want to do. It helps us out so, so much. And social media is such a good tool these days for, you know, little small things like this. So we really, really appreciate it when you guys do that. Yeah. Thanks so much for shouting us out, for following us, for commenting. It's been really fun.

So for those of you who don't know, Garrett and I actually met in college. We absolutely loved our college experience together. I was on the dance team at my college, which meant that I was able to cheer at athletic games, participate in university events, as well as compete at nationals.

Garrett was such a trooper. He came to every single game, every single school event and cheered me on to actually win three national titles. He cared just as much about it as I did and it was basically our life for three years together. It was

it was just a really fun experience. Like when I think about college, I think like it doesn't get better than the experience I had. It was actually really cool just going to everything. And I mean, we spent so much time together. I mean, we still do, but yeah, we were with each other 24 seven. Yeah. Garrett and I live somewhere where we don't live in the same States as our parents. Um,

And it's pretty custom where we live to spend a lot of time with family. And so we were just like your typical college students that moved away from their families. So we just spent all the time together on Sundays when all of our friends would go see their families. We just...

We just hung out together and it was a really fun time for me. Although we had an amazing college experience together, our case today actually takes place on a college campus with a story that is not as happy as ours turned out. So should we get into it? Yep, let's do it. Let's get into it. Okay, so my case sources are www.nwitimes.com.

LyndonLink.com, two different articles from that place. So LyndonLink.com, News.Google.com,

newspapers.com that it wasn't me podcast an episode on it groups and then groups.google.com which is basically just like a forum for people from the city or town to go on and like talk about it so I kind of read into those a little bit too is there not I mean besides reddit is there not a crime website where it's just

People talk about crime like on forums just like random people. Yeah, no like murder murderpedia is like just murder or like true crime but as far as like There's local ones like I you know got into some like college forums for the college that this is involved in But nothing about the case. Yeah, but just complaining about the college

the college. Like just funny forms, you know, just usual forms. But yeah, like Google, it was just like a Google group and people like talked about the case on there, but not like a crime form. I'm not like that. I know like a crime Facebook or a crime Instagram. Oh yeah. I like I'm in crime groups on Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. I know there's like groups and stuff. I heard there's this really,

really, really good social media channel called, what was it called? Murder With My Husband. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard of that. That people can actually get on and talk about the crime. I heard that's like one of the top rated best crime forms. No, I've heard of it too. I heard they're pretty awesome. I'm not going to lie. Okay. Let's start. All right, let's start. Okay. So the year is 1998. We are in St. Charles, Missouri, an outer suburb of St. Louis with a population of 200,000.

At Lindenwood University, the local college, inside his dorm room in Cobbs Hall, room 120, Jason Richter is hanging out when his girlfriend frantically calls him. She tells him to turn the TV on. The local police were releasing information about the murder, the murder that had just happened on their campus not even a week and a half earlier.

Everyone was worried. Everyone was talking about it and the police were finally releasing some vital evidence. Jason Richter turns on the TV, still on the phone with his girlfriend. The police announced that they have found evidence connected to the murder and are asking for the public's help. They hold up a bed sheet. It's not a normal bed sheet. It has brown polka dots, but like big polka dots and

And in the middle of the dots are white wings that belong to like a dove or a pigeon. No body, just wings. So brown polka dots with white wings in the middle of them. As the couple sat on the phone, Jason recalls how strange the sheet is. His girlfriend points out that the sheet looks awfully familiar. She definitely had seen it somewhere.

Jason Richter stands up and walks over to his roommate's bed, whom he hadn't seen in about a week and a half. He lifts up the comforter and confirms his fears. Jason Richter's roommate had the exact same sheet on his bed as the one the police were holding up on the TV screen. After confirming with his girlfriend, he gets off the phone and calls his dad, who lives in Bridgeton, which was just about 10 minutes away.

His dad told him to check the sheets, so Jason Richter walks over to the bed only to realize that the flat sheet and pillowcase that came in a set with the sheet were missing. Jason's dad rushed to campus and they called authorities. Could it be true? Could Jason's roommate really have committed the murder that the whole town had been talking about for the last week and a half? His roommate was kind of weird, always hanging out by himself, never really bringing girls over, playing with baseball cards as he put it.

Jason Richter and his friends had actually joked that his roommate was a suspect in the murder since they hadn't seen him since the murder came to light, but it was always just a joke. Everything that had been funny, a way for Jason's friends to cope with the thought that a murder had actually happened on their campus, was now coming to fruition. Jason's roommate's bed sheet matched the one the police were holding up on TV and cops were on their way to the dorm room.

A week and a half earlier, Lindenwood University's campus was buzzing. It was parents weekend and games and activities and events were being held. The campus was a lot busier than it normally was. On April 26th, 1998 at 6.50 AM, a young man was walking on a footpath that laid between the college's welcome center and their water tower. It was just like a concrete sidewalk basically, but it like led through the college kind of. So-

Just going back for a second. Yeah. So the dorms that they're living in, they're on campus, obviously, because they're dorms, right? Yeah. And what college is this at again? I'm sorry. Lindenwood University. Okay. This is in St. Charles, Missouri. Got it. And I mean, this might be getting ahead, but Jason. Yes. He didn't notice anything.

I mean like his girlfriend knew recognized the sheets before he did. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So there were actually like a couple of people who were like, leave it up to the girl. Like the guy actually lives with the guy. I had no idea. The girl is the one who remembered the sheets. Like she's the one that was like, Jason, those sheets look familiar. Kind of confused me. And they were like, I saw a picture of the sheets and they're not normal sheets. You would definitely be like, it's like him having, I don't know.

Dinosaurs. Yeah, like some random sheet that you're like, what the heck? Okay. So it was definitely a weird sheet. Got it. Which makes sense why she remembered it, but boys are just stupid, I guess. I don't know. So the man's walking on a footpath that laid between, like through the college.

He was on his way to Pizza Hut where he worked when he noticed something strange laying on the side of the pathway that he was walking on. Confused but hesitant, he calls campus security.

He reports to them that there appears to be what he thinks is a naked mannequin laid out and it's probably just some weird twisted prank being pulled because it's parents weekend and everyone, you know, like wants to all the upperclassmen want to give the freshman parents a hard time and, and, you know, they better come pick it up before it causes a problem.

When campus police show up, they immediately call 911. The mannequin wasn't a mannequin after all, but rather a real nude body of a young woman. The worst part, the nude body was headless. So how did the guy that called not realize it was a real body? Is that a common mistake? So this happens a lot when people stumble, if they don't get close enough. If they just stumble and go, whoa, that looks weird, but they don't actually go close enough to investigate, which is also common. Like people get sad.

scared. Oh, cause it might be real. Yeah. Um, the first thing they think is that has to be a mannequin. That's like always people who stumble upon, uh, bodies. That's the first thing they say is, well, I just thought it was a mannequin. Cause you don't actually believe that

Wow. There's a headless person. That's like a headless person. Cause the mannequin, which was actually a real body, didn't have a head. Oh, it was a headless mannequin. Yes. But it actually ended up being a headless woman. My gosh. And so he was like, Oh, it must just be a prank just to make himself feel better. But I mean, I think deep down he knew because he called campus security. So word spread like wildfire throughout the campus and the community. It decapitated nude body of a girl had been found at Lindenwood university. Apparently,

Upon discovery, police found that the body had been stabbed, burned, and finally decapitated. Oh, man. This kind of stuff didn't happen in this small town. Even though it was a university, people kind of explain it as like a community college type. It was more like a small, smaller place. A full-blown investigation begins as task forces skim the surrounding area, searching for any clues they can find about this headless body.

Now, it's unclear whether the head was sitting in the actual toilet hole,

or if it was left on the floor of the porta potty, either way, what a despicable and disrespectful way to dispose of a head. Like, I think that that says a lot about the state of mind of the murderer and that it wasn't just like happen chance kind of like, well, this is super brutal. Yeah.

Not only did they cut the head off and put it somewhere, they just left the body naked in the middle of basically. And putting the head in a port-a-potty. Like the most disgusting place you could be, you know? Was there tons of other people walking by this body? So it was 6.50 a.m. on a college campus. Okay.

So unless you had a six o'clock class, which if you're not college age, if you're high school or listening to this, number one, don't be listening to this gruesome of stuff. Number two, don't take a 6 a.m. class at college. Okay, next. So it obviously probably happened in the middle of the night. Yes. Okay. As police, you know, keep looking for clues, most,

Media is in a frenzy trying to get details on the story. Every single one of them trying to get their stories ready for that night's five o'clock news. So it's April 26th. So that night's five o'clock news.

This is when the president of Lindenwood University, Dennis Spellman, enters the story. From the beginning, he was completely closed off and protective of the university. He demanded that no students talk to press and would not allow searches of dorms or any information about the university to be reported on. He was not working with police.

I know that he wants to keep a good reputation for his school. Like I get it. It doesn't look good that a headless body of a woman was found on your campus, but like the girl is dead. Yeah. Like let's be respectful and try to help the cops figure out what happened, you know? Yep.

So, meanwhile, police decide to take a photo of the girl's head that they had found and kind of clean it up, make it look like it was actually attached to a body, and use it for identification purposes. Keep in mind, this is all in the same day. Like, these cops are going hard. Have they removed the body now? Like, have they taken the body and the head somewhere else? Oh, I'm sure. Or is it still... I'm sure. Once the, like...

A crime scene investigation? The autopsy person. Oh. They have a name. The coroner? Yes. Once the coroner comes and makes sure that moving the body isn't going to disrupt any evidence or anything. Yeah. I'm proud of you for knowing that, by the way. Disrupt any evidence. Then she or he, whoever the coroner is, gives the okay. Okay. You can take the body. We'll move it to my... Yeah. Yeah. So...

At least that's how they do it on CSI. I guess maybe that might not be a regular procedure, but that's how they do it on the TV shows. So they walk through the cafeteria that day. So now it's around lunchtime and ask if anyone in there recognizes the woman in the photograph. Keep in mind, they've cleaned it all up and nobody does. Around five o'clock, the cops are arguing back and forth whether they should publish the photo of the girl on the news. Does anyone recognize this girl? Because they're just trying to ID the body. I find it kind of weird that

A girl that's laying in the middle of this college. No one seems to recognize her because she's most likely a college student. I know we haven't gotten there yet, but they found it weird too. Okay. That's why they made the photograph because they were like, oh, 10,000% someone's going to recognize this girl.

So before they can decide whether or not they're going to publish it, a call comes in about a missing girl. Dawn Sabourin reports to authorities that her 13-year-old daughter, Tiffany Sabourin, is missing and she hadn't seen her since last night. 13? Now this caused a lot of frustration and judgment from the town. It had been 11 hours since the body was found and Tiffany's mom was just barely calling to report her daughter missing.

I'm not speaking on that because I'm not a mom and it's no one's fault except the killer that this happened to Tiffany. But either way, Tiffany's mom describes her daughter over the phone to police and they confirm that the dismembered body and head were in fact those of 13-year-old Tiffany Sabore. Oh, man, a 13-year-old. Which they were, just like you are right now, confused. How is a 13-year-old on a college campus? Okay, also...

I don't know, but how did they not realize it was a 13 year old? That seems kind of strange as well. Yeah. I mean, I think I could be wrong, but also I look at like the 13 year olds now and they look like they're 18. So I'm not sure. Yeah. Um, according, but this was also in the nineties. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah.

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.com code husband, cbdistillery.com code husband. So according to Ashley Higginbotham with lindenlink.com, Tiffany Sabourin was a seventh grader at Wentzville Middle School, literally seventh grade.

That is so little. Yeah, that's so young. She was popular and well-liked. She had so many friends and was kind-hearted. She was the girl people hung out with when they wanted to have a fun time. She liked softball and was extremely outgoing, always looking for fun. To go along with that, Tiffany had kind of reached a rambunctious age where

13 she listened to music that other kids her age weren't listening to she kind of liked to rebel a little she had started smoking cigarettes and ultimately she was just being a teenager she was finding herself I don't really like that some of the sources painted her in a bad light because of this because weren't most of us just trying to figure out who we were yeah totally this age

Although Tiffany's, you know, rebellion was a little bit more mischievous than others. You know, she had wrecked a couple cars. She wasn't asking for what happened to her on the night of April 25th, 1998. Yep.

Her mom and stepfather were going out for the night and left Tiffany home to babysit her eight and 11 year old little brothers. They returned home in the early morning hours. And when Tiffany wasn't home, they kind of just figured she had woke up early and went to a friend's house for the day. It was a Saturday. Good thing we have find my friends now is all I can say. It wasn't until later that night when Tiffany's mom heard about the body that was found on the campus near her house that she decided to report her daughter missing.

After confirming the identity of the body to Tiffany Sabourin, cops hit a wall. A week had passed and they hadn't discovered any new information. All they knew was Tiffany had met a gruesome end. President Dennis Spellman was not letting any media onto the campus, had mandated a blackout on publicity for the college, and had not been able to get any information.

And mass panic was setting in. That's so weird that he did that. It seems so rude. So reporters actually had to wait outside of the campus's boundaries. And then when students would drive out, they would try to flag them down and talk to them. Like, what's going on in there? Like, they won't let us in. But students were too scared to talk. Like, they'd pull over and they were like, I don't want to get expelled. So I don't know. I don't know enough about all the legality issues behind it. But yeah.

I guess you would think that they'd be allowed, the cops and everything would be allowed to just... So the cops can go in. Oh, okay. It's the reporters. It was just the media. The media couldn't go in because they can't legally say, you know, cops, you can't come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can legally say like, so a president of a college can say, you can search anyone's dorm room. Don't have to have any like evidence or anything. And they can go in and search because it's their dorms. Does that make sense? Yeah.

But he was like, no, you're not allowed to search unless you have probable cause. Oh, wow. Which made it hard because they could have just been conducting searches hoping to find something. Yep. So he just wasn't really working well with the cops. Yeah. Yeah.

So police had investigated up to 400 leads at this point, but nothing was panning out. The end of the semester was coming up and cops did not want people, students, leaving campus to go home. They knew they had to do something for this case and fast. It was at this point, six days after Tiffany's body had been found, that the police were

that a canine officer mentioned the possible use of bloodhounds. He was like, well, since we can't find any evidence on foot, maybe the hounds could sniff it out. Like police were pretty sure that there was more evidence somewhere considering that her body had been left out and her head had been left out. They were like, we think that the actual murder happened outside on campus. I'm surprised they didn't bring in the dogs earlier.

Yeah, I know. I mean, well, it's only been six days. That's true. I think we feel like it's been a long time. Yeah. They've been working pretty fast and pretty diligently, I feel like. Okay. These are not German shepherds or attack dogs. Garrett actually, Garrett's dad actually has a German shepherd all trained and everything because Garrett's dad used to be a cop and a canine officer, right? Mm-hmm.

And so when I first was reading, I was kind of picturing like a German shepherd, but then they, I went to the site that talked about, it was just about the dogs doing this. And they reported that like bloodhounds and German shepherds are completely opposite and they're used for completely different things. Yeah. So according to Ken Kosky with nwitimes.com, bloodhounds have a sense of smell that is 3 million times more powerful than a human's.

They specifically use an article of clothing to track a scent without getting distracted by other scents. So they say the difference is like a German shepherd will alert to other scents as well. And a bloodhound just stays focused on the one scent you give them. Exactly. Yep.

Isn't that pretty crazy that it's crazy in general that both those types of dogs, what they can do. Exactly. It's crazy. So the two cutie puppies that were called in to help this case were Samantha from Indiana and Chester from Michigan, both bloodhounds. Police were worried. It had rained every single day since Tiffany had been found. Had evidence or sense completely washed away in this week's time because it's also been a week.

Starting at Tiffany's house using some gym clothes from her locker, Chester and Samantha led police to where her body was found and then on to a pond about a mile away. Once to the pond, Samantha got on a boat with police and alerted law enforcement to a specific corner of the pond.

So upon searching with divers, they were like, get in there. Police pulled out a brown polka dot bed sheet that had been weighed down with rocks in the pond. I can't believe the dogs found that. Yeah. They literally smelled Tiffany's scent a mile away after a week of rain and under five feet of water in the pond. That's amazing. Literally.

Literally, that's so good. I'm so proud of those dogs. They deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. So it only took two days for police to release the photo of the bed sheet on the 5 o'clock news. And by 5.30, Jason Richter had called in to let them know that his roommate, Jason Shipman...

Both Jason's, but Jason Richter is the one that called in on his roommate. Jason Shipman had the exact same bed sheet and he hadn't been seen since the night of the murder. I think I would have been freaking out if I was that roommate and I knew he had the same bed sheet. That would have been, that would have blown my mind.

So now I couldn't find a source that explained how, but police found 21-year-old Jason Shipman at a hotel around 10 minutes away on May 3rd. They arrested him and brought him into custody. Once in custody, Jason Shipman told detectives that he was actually at a hotel the night of the 25th and that his 15-year-old friend, Billy Joe Logsdon, was the one who murdered Tiffany while he acted as a lookout.

Now, I want to give you some background on 15-year-old Billy Joe.

First off, it's weird that a 21-year-old college student is hanging out with a 15-year-old high schooler. But second, Billy Joe was a troubled boy. He had a very low IQ, manic depressive behavior, and didn't hang out with the best crowd. When police brought Billy in for questioning, he kind of kept changing his story, none of which ever matched up with Jason's version of events. And then he eventually confessed to murdering Tiffany Sabourin.

It's weird that one of the first things Jason said was, oh, yeah, it was my friend Billy. Uh-huh. Just out of nowhere. So I want to briefly tell you a story, brief, because I will eventually cover this case one day with you guys.

But in my hometown of Idaho Falls, way back when, there was a rape and a murder of a young girl. Police brought in a young high school-aged boy with a low IQ and a rough upbringing very similar to Billy Joe. And although the DNA at the scene did not match his, he too eventually confessed after hours of interrogation.

I could completely fall down a rabbit hole on this, but what I'm essentially trying to tell you is that a young kid already feels threatened by authority. And if you get that young kid into an interrogation room for hours, being told over and over that they did something, they won't be acting right, no matter if they're guilty or innocent. It's a completely threatening and overwhelming situation for anyone. I even struggle, you know,

going to like if I get pulled over or something I feel like if the cops were like hey what's your birthday I would literally probably forget my birthday because I'm so scared. Because you're nervous? Yeah. Do you remember that time when the cops like

were surrounding your car because they thought you stole amazon packages but it was a misunderstanding long story i didn't steal anything well i have to tell that story i didn't do anything but anyways the cops were like can you guys sit down and i was so scared i knew we hadn't done anything um garrett just had boxes of product in the back of his car that he was selling and people were like

Oh my gosh, look at him. He's an Amazon thief. This was when like stealing porch, like porch pirates were really big. It was super popular. And I don't know why the cops... Anyway, so I was like, I remember they asked me something and I looked at you because it was something like, what's my birthday or something? And I literally couldn't remember because I was so...

And I didn't do anything wrong. I was it wasn't me, you know, but I still was so scared. So can you imagine actually getting into that interrogation room, being innocent and being told over and over and over and then lying to you and threatening you? Like, I don't think anyone would be acting right in that situation. It would definitely be a weird situation, especially as a young kid.

you know, who doesn't know his rights or have anyone who's looking out for him. I'm not really surprised that the boy in my hometown and that Billy Joe confessed. I think that's why everyone says, ask for your lawyer, ask for your lawyer, ask for your lawyer. Because they aren't under pressure in that situation like you feel. So now, unlike the cops in my hometown, the cops in this Missouri case were suspicious of the confession. They

They went with it because a boy confessed. But deep down, they kind of knew that Billy didn't really know what he was talking about, that they had kind of, you know, been questioning and questioning. And his stories were always changing and he wasn't really sure. And they didn't really match up with the evidence. Either way, they arrested both of the boys and waited for the DNA test. So they arrested Jason as well. Yes. Because Jason said I was a lookout. Got it. He did admit that he was involved. Yeah.

It's obviously so sketchy. Oh yeah. I was a lookout and Billy killed them. So yeah. So now unlike CSI and law and order, DNA testing is not done in one day, especially in the nineties. So it took a whole year for DNA to come back and confirm the truth, which means it took a whole year of those boys sitting in jail waiting.

Does it really take that long? No, it was backlogged. I mean, it wouldn't take that long now, but with backlog and everything and like you have to go in the, I mean, you can put rush on it. I'm surprised they wouldn't put rush on that. But I mean, it just, it was hard, especially in the nineties. It's a lot better now, but I mean, there's cases sitting waiting to be tested right now.

I don't know enough about that. I wonder if any of our listeners are familiar with any of that. I know. Because... If you are, email us. Um...

I mean that case that we just, a couple cases ago that we just confirmed that was, oh no, it was just last week's case that was confirmed with DNA testing. Yes. It was what, 20 years later? Mm-hmm. Like it just takes, I mean, they're just sitting there waiting to be tested, but we don't really have either the money in some cities or the people. Priority. Yeah. So anyways-

Takes a whole year. So when DNA comes back in December of 1999 and only Jason Shipman's could be found tied to the evidence from the case, Billy Joe was set completely free at age 16, having no connection to the case at all. While Jason was arraigned and court hearing dates were set. So Billy sat in prison.

For a whole year. For a whole year just to be released, just waiting for DNA to confirm that he wasn't actually involved and he was a 15-year-old that didn't know what he was doing and was under pressure and confessed to something. It's, if he wasn't troubled before, I mean, that just sucks because. Yeah. That completely changes your life. Yeah. That's why it just sucks. Anyways, with the case tying up and Jason is our only suspect, we need to look into his past as well. Yeah.

It's said that Jason had had a rough upbringing. His family was evicted out of their home once after Jason was caught looking into girls' windows as a teen.

It's rumored that he was abused as a young kid, but that's not confirmed. He was a drug addict at age 15 and ended up having a child with his girlfriend. She eventually took a restraining order out against him after watching him violently beat up his little sister. Oh, my gosh. He had been, you know, in trouble for some petty crimes. So this guy did not have, I mean...

I'm not going to draw conclusions, but he was looking at a young age. He was looking into women's windows, watching them. That's like a telltale sign of someone who's going to get in trouble later on in life. Did his roommate say anything about him? No, just that he was like a recluse, that he didn't really talk much. He didn't hang out with them. He didn't really bring girls back. Let's say he didn't say anything else about his personal life. No. Okay. He didn't really know him that well. So...

When the DNA came out against Jason, he agreed to plead guilty to the rape and murder of Tiffany to avoid the death penalty and that he would tell the truth about what happened the night of April 25th, 1998. Wow. Jason says that Tiffany was babysitting her brothers when she went outside to smoke a cigarette. Jason said he saw her and according to lyndonlink.com, he asked her what time it was so he could spark up a conversation with her.

Tiffany offered Jason a juice box. Now, I'm not sure if he said he was thirsty or something because that seems weird. This is just outside her home? Mm-hmm. And he happened to be walking by? Her home is right by the campus. Okay. After they drank the juice box or whatever, he convinced Tiffany to leave her...

brothers asleep at home and come to his dorm room with him. Keep in mind, Tiffany was just always looking for a good time. Like she was 13. She just wanted to have fun. I mean, when I was younger, I have hung out with like some people where I'm like, what the heck was I doing? Like that was not a safe environment. Why did I go do that? You know? But at that age, I was just, I just was trusting. I just wanted to have a fun time. I think 13 to 21, that's such a big difference. Yeah. So keep in mind, Jason's 21.

one and she's 13 he's just a creepo so after hanging out and i think it says a lot about him that he couldn't hang out with people his age because his other friend that he hung out with all time was 15

I think it kind of shows that he wasn't on the same level with people his age. So who knows what Jason was doing during the day normally? Yeah. What did his average day look like? I don't know. So there was rumors that he had dropped out of college but was still living in the dorm. But I couldn't get that confirmed on like a real news source. So I didn't put it in here. Yeah, like he almost doesn't exist. Like who is this guy? Yeah, like what's he doing? Uh-huh. So...

After hanging out in his room for a bit, Tiffany said that she needed to go home because her mom would be home soon. Now, remember that Tiffany's mom didn't really come home until the early morning hours of the next day. And I feel like she probably knew that her mom wouldn't check in on her when she got home. Her mom didn't check in on her when she got home, which makes me feel like Tiffany was

was maybe getting the creeps. Yeah. Um, but this is all personal speculation, not fact. This is my personal opinion. I'm putting in onto this case. Jason offered to escort Tiffany back to her home from his dorm room. They walked out and headed to the footpath by the water tower. Okay. Wait, I'm sorry to interrupt. So they were in his dorm room together. And where was the other Jason? So I, I don't think Jason was there because he, I mean, he had said that he didn't really bring girls over, um,

Okay. And there was nothing I couldn't find. I thought that same exact thing, but I couldn't find anything about whether Jason was in the room with them or not. Interesting. Yeah. I wonder if it, okay. So, okay. So yeah, let me just stop and say something here.

The hard part about not doing well-known cases is that I don't have as much information as I have on, say, John Bonnet or other cases that have just been dived into and local people have come forward and said, no, this, this, and this, and this. So for a lot of these local suggested cases I get, I'm strictly getting information off of newspapers. Like I'm going into the documented newspapers, pulling up the pictures of the articles from that time and reading them.

and then splicing them together. Yeah. It does make it a lot harder because I don't have just one source that tells me the whole story. No, that makes sense. But with that comes, I don't get information like that where if this was a well-known high profile case, that would be answered the first day. You would think this would be a high profile case. This is pretty messed up. I know. So my other question would be, was there no video cameras? Because I mean, you think on a college campus in 1998? Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah. - There'd probably be video cameras. - They don't say anything about it. I even got on Reddit. I was trying to get on like the dark web, trying to find anything I could find about this case. - No, for sure. The dark web. - Literally. I was like searching everywhere I could think of and I could really only find like news clippings, forums. - Okay. - And the problem with forums is then nothing's factual. - Yep. - So then I'm like struggling with, well, do I put it in or do I, you know? - Do I say it? - Yeah. So anyways, that's why we don't know the answer to that.

So they walk out, headed to the footpath by the water tower, when they decide to stop for a smoke again. Jason says that it was at this point that he knew he was going to kill Tiffany.

he had been prowling the campus earlier um for a while looking for a victim but could never find one and then he said wow this was my chance that's so freaky so he got behind her and surprised her he either slashed her throat or stabbed her in the back the sources varied on which one but either way he injures her with a knife so he had a knife with him he

He, this whole time he was a predator. He knew, I mean, she's 13. That's already predatorial. That's horrible. But this whole time he knew that he wanted to do this. So he surprises her, hurts her somehow. Um, and then he makes her undress so that he could sexually assault her. So keep in mind, all of this is happening on the footpath according to him. And, uh,

I know it's late, but it's like, that's pretty risky. I feel like, because what if someone stumbled upon you doing this? I don't know.

No, no, I see what you're saying. And that's why I asked about the video cameras because if they are on a footpath. Yeah. I mean, I know it's not 2020, but. I mean, there's trees. Like it's not just like an open footpath. I mean, there's trees. It's like a pathway. Think of like. Like in a park. Yes, yes. But I don't know. It just feels weird because it was a real path. So people could be walking there. It wasn't like they were in the wilderness or something.

So he makes her undress and then he does sexually assault her. And afterwards, after he's finished, he stabs her again in the front of her chest as well as her neck, which paralyzes her. Oh, man. And so he says that the last thing that she said was, can you please bring me to the hospital? I can't feel my legs because she's paralyzed. This is horrible. Which to me, I think last words...

Of people says a lot of what was going through their mind at the time. And I think that it, it says something that after everything she's been through, she's in trouble. She's still asking him for help because she,

She was helpless and that was the top of her priority like she was so not why are you doing this not stop I mean, i'm sure she said those things but the last thing she said was I'm freaking out. I can't feel my legs. Can you please bring me to the hospital as a 13 year old? I'll just never be able to wrap my mind around how someone can just kill someone. It's just My mind can't yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's horrible.

Anyways, so after Tiffany dies, Jason pulled the knife out and used it to cut off her head. So keep in mind, this was a five inch blade knife. Yeah, what? So how did he use that to cut off her head? And how long did it take? And how did no one see? Like that is...

inch blade like we're back to the penis cutting thing like how did they freaking do it like that fast and one thing like this doesn't line up how was there not blood just all over i know i know

Because it's not like he had like a butcher's knife. Yeah. Even then there would still be blood just everywhere. Tendons and stuff. Like you got to cut through things. Your neck. There'd be so much blood. I don't get it. I don't know. Maybe he was really angry. I don't know. I don't know. Afterwards, he burns her genitalia to try to cover up the evidence of the sexual assault, which just goes to show you that this was preplanned. He wasn't having like a lapse of judgment. He wasn't.

I mean, he knew what he was doing. He was trying to cover up his acts. He then went to his dorm, got his flat sheet and used it to carry Tiffany's head to the porta potty. Which I don't understand what was going through his mind to do that. That, oh, I could hide this or he just wanted to hide it. I, or was it, I want, I'm weird and I want to put her head in the porta potty. Yeah. Cause like I said, we don't know how it was placed in the porta potty. Was it placed to scare someone? No.

Like that opens it up, you know, I mean obviously him leaving the body out like that was gonna scare someone. Yeah, that's weird Afterwards he took the sheet that he used to the pond wrapped it up in rocks Put rocks on top of it and weighed it down to the bottom of the pond Jason shipman pled guilty and was sentenced to three life terms plus 150 years Uh, he pled guilty to avoid the death penalty He is currently incarcerated in the southeast correctional center in charleston, missouri

Billy Joe Logsdon moved to Kentucky after being released from jail.

Jason Richter, the roommate who turned in Jason Shipman, changed his gym teacher major to criminal justice after the case. Wow. He became a St. Louis County police officer after graduating and then joined the U.S. Marshals. He has since said that, you know, after turning in Jason, his roommate, he was like, I really just want to help people. I want to do this. Like, I want to bring justice. Like, how could this have been happening in front of my face? And I had no idea. That's pretty awesome. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Another was that Jason had seen the Macbeth play, which inspired him to kill Tiffany. All of these are hearsay, and none of this was testified at trial, as that I know. The trial isn't, you know, when he gave his testimony, those records aren't public, so all we know is what the media covered. I mean, I know he got sentenced, and he's in jail and all that, but I'm surprised there wasn't, I guess, more of a deeper dive, because it's a pretty crazy case. But I assume because...

It all kind of happened so fast. I mean, he pled guilty pretty quickly and it was over. So Tiffany Sabourin was buried in the St. Charles Memorial Gardens. Her story remains prevalent and infamous to residents of St. Charles County today. And that's the story of Tiffany Sabourin, the campus decapitation. Crazy. That was an interesting one. That was that was pretty crazy. I know.

I just think that... Did you know about this one? No. Okay. I think maybe I've heard it. I thought I had heard it on a podcast or something. But then upon doing research, I could only find one podcast who had covered it. Oh, wow. And so I was like, I don't think I've heard it. So, yeah. I mean, it's... I mean, I...

when I was researching that, I was like, you know, it got sent to me and I looked it up and I was like, how the heck do I not know this? Like, this is a good case. It is a good one. And I, and, and like you said, how is it not more high profile? Like that is a, it just goes to show you that,

that you know if you're not into this kind of stuff if you don't research this stuff all you think is that oh you know the zodiac killer he was a bad one and then you realize like crap there's bad ones everywhere there really are and there's so many that none of that they all don't get the coverage i was thinking that if he hadn't been arrested he probably would have been a serial killer okay

Garrett. So the main detective said that. Really? He said, he goes, he has all of the, he would have been a serial killer if we wouldn't have got him. All right. I have a time to change my career. I guess I'm doing the wrong thing. You just said that. Yeah. No, he, the main detective guy in his interview with press, he was like after.

He goes, Jason Shipman had all of the characteristics to be a serial killer. He did this for joy. He would have continued killing for joy had we not caught him. That's so crazy. Yeah.

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Maybe not right now, but I put, I put a poll up and everyone wants to a week. So, I mean, I want to a week as well. We just got to keep growing. We got to keep grinding. We got to keep doing this. So thank you to everyone who's been on this journey with us and who stays with us and who, you know, pushes for us to grow and shares in all, in all of that. It's really fun. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you everyone for listening. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye. Bye.