23. Crystal Perry - The Overheard Tragedy
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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. I just wanted to start off by saying thank you to everyone who listens and supports us. The comments we get, sometimes I don't even know what to say because I literally just can't believe that there are so many people who are interested and want to listen to these stories with us. And so...

Yeah, you guys are so nice to me and sometimes I just really can't fathom it. So I just wanted to say thank you. I was just thinking about it and I just was like, I need to say thank you. Everyone's so nice to me. I know they really are. It's been so cool to see this grow. I know it's been awesome. Yeah. Oh, well, Garrett, how was your week? It was good. We've had a busy week, but we're excited to be here. Yeah, I got my hair done.

Yep, you did. I dominated Garrett in mini golf. That is not true. Garrett threw his back out at the batting cages. That part is true. We love mini golf. We go play mini golf by ourselves all the time. Yeah, we really do love mini golf. Well, only because I'm freaking good at it. It's fun though. It's super fun. Yeah, I love it. Who wants to come play mini? Murder with my husband mini golf night. That'd be funny. Every stroke we tell a story. It'll last 18 hours. Yeah.

I wanted to ask, do you guys have any suggestions from us that you guys want us to do besides cases? I know that there's some podcasts out there that do that, so I was just kind of curious. Is there any suggestions you want to see from me and Garrett that isn't a true crime case? And if not, then we'll just keep doing this. We'll just keep chugging. No, but that is a good idea. If anyone has any suggestions for cases, for... I think I just feel like I have a lot of friends now. Yeah.

more than I normally have. And so I'm like, oh my gosh, I just want to do something. I want to hang out with my friends. But I mean, this is hanging out with my friends. So I guess I should just. That's funny. Okay. So let's just get into it. Okay. I'm going to cite the sources for this week. There is a book called After the Eclipse, A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Search.

Um, that, that book probably has a lot more intimate details about this case than I could find. So if you want more in depth, check it out. Um, I didn't have time to read the whole book before we did covered it.

W2PCMS.com, archive.boston.com, pressherald.com, dailymail.co.uk, and truecrimediscussions.blogspot.com. And also normally, I know blogs can be a little iffy as a source, but this girl claims that she read the book that I was talking about. So I kind of took her word for like a little bit more secure than others. Yeah.

And then also there's a forensic files episode, season 13, episode eight. Oh, wow. Okay. But for there being a forensic files on this, there wasn't that many large sources, if that makes sense. A lot of them were just from the town itself. Okay. So I was really surprised that there was a forensic files on this and it didn't have more coverage. Yeah, that's interesting.

12-year-old Sarah Perry is sleeping in her bedroom in the small town of Bridgeton, Maine in the summer of 1994 when she's awakened by a noise. As she comes to, she realizes that her mother is arguing with someone outside of her room. Their house was small, a one-story, and newish, so it wasn't that weird that she could hear the argument from her bedroom.

Sarah lays her head back down and nods off to sleep again. As sad as it is, according to truecrimediscussions.blogspot.com, who claims to have read Sarah's book, Sarah was used to her mom arguing with different boyfriends all the time, so she wasn't that, like, stunned when she woke up to an argument in the middle of the night. It wasn't that weird to hear those arguments, so Sarah chalked it up to her mom arguing with her new beau and went back to sleep.

Just a short while later, Sarah is awakened again, but this time it's not arguing. Her mother, Crystal Perry, is screaming so loud that Sarah knows something is wrong. She rushes over to her bedroom door and peeks out, but she can't see anything. She shuts her bedroom door and hunches down, listening. Crystal, her mom, is screaming no over and over again. Sarah hears the drawers in the kitchen open and what sounds like silverware being jostled.

All of this followed by loud bangs. Sarah knows something is seriously wrong. Whatever she's hearing, it's not her mom arguing with her boyfriend anymore. So she's just in her room, correct? Yes. Trying to... Listening. Okay. After the screams and scuffle dies down, and she's 12, Sarah has been sitting in her bedroom alone in silence for a couple minutes. She decides that she has to get up and go check on her mom. She doesn't know if whatever's going on out there is finished.

She quietly opens her door and tiptoes out looking around for her mom. Sarah stumbles into the kitchen and discovers her mom lying on the ground in a big pool of blood. Holy crap. She cries out for her, but Crystal, her mom, doesn't respond. Sarah runs to the phone in the kitchen and tries it, but there's not a dial tone. She can't get it to work. Next, she tries the phone in her mom's bedroom, but it's the same scenario. It won't work in there as well.

Sarah knows she needs to get her mom help. She doesn't understand what's happened. She's scared that whoever hurt her mom is still around, but she knows that she doesn't have time. She runs out of the house barefoot, not even taking the time to grab shoes, and sprints half a mile to the nearest neighbor's house. She knocks. She bangs on the door to know of Elle. She hits a few more neighbor's houses, but no one is answering. Sarah's freaking out.

She continues on running in total a whole mile barefoot in the middle of the night to the nearest building. It happens to be a restaurant where the owners live above. Like there's an apartment above the restaurant and they let her in and they let her use the phone. Sarah calls nine one one and tells them that a man hurt her mother and she's on the floor of their kitchen, not moving.

Tired, distraught, and confused, Sarah has done everything she could. She sits back and waits for word on when and if she can see her mom and what happened while she was listening from behind her bedroom door. Wow. Crystal Perry was a single mother raising Sarah.

They had recently moved to the small town of Bridgeton, Crystal hoping to make a better life for her and Sarah. Sarah's father, Thomas, actually only lived six miles away from them, but was not involved in Sarah or Crystal's life. Crystal and Thomas had a volatile relationship after divorcing when Sarah was three or four years old. They would argue over child support, hence they did not get along, and eventually he just stepped out. Mm-hmm.

Crystal got a job as a hand sewer in the local Sabago shoe shop, according to W3PCMS.com. She had made some friends there and her and Sarah's life was really looking up. In some of the sources, Sarah claims that she calls back on this time before this night and she claims just thinking that finally her life just felt secure and in place and like everything was working out for them. Crystal had a new boyfriend named Dennis Butler and

And Sarah just remembers this time of life as being a new start for her and her mom. When police arrived at the small white home after getting a call from a 12-year-old saying that she heard something bad happen to her mom from the room over, they are stunned. The crime scene was a bloody mess. It's quickly determined that Crystal Perry was no longer alive. In fact, she had passed rather quickly.

Medical examiners determined that she had been stabbed more than 50 times while Sarah was listening behind her bedroom door. Oh my gosh. She had been stabbed so forcefully that the knife tip broke off and stayed embedded in her head, according to DailyMail.co.uk. Someone stabbed someone in the head. That is crazy. Insane. The attack had started in the living room and escalated and then finished into the kitchen.

The blood was everywhere. Immediately, detectives have a hunch that Crystal probably knew her killer. It was a crime of passion. 50 plus stab wounds is intimate and overkill. 50. You know how many? 50 times. That is a lot. That's crazy. I know. So...

It looked as if the killer had tried to clean up. There were shoe prints in the blood going back and forth, laid out all over the floor. And I've seen pictures of a crime scene and it is like a Saw movie. Like there's just, it's everywhere. And the shoe prints, like you can vividly see the shoe prints that design everything in the blood throughout the floor. So he knew he was screwed.

Well, I mean, he knew he was leaving his footprints behind. And this is 1992. I mean, it's not like we're in the 1800s here. You know, like, Forensic Files was running. I'm pretty sure. So, you know, Crystal didn't have shoes on at the time of the attack. So this was most likely the killer's footprints. And they were really big. Investigators found fingerprints at the scene, but they were so soaked in blood and smudged that they were completely useless.

Upon analyzing the body, experts found that there were circular blood drops on Crystal's legs that, according to forensic files, are known as passive blood drops. This means that the drops are perfectly circle because they were dropped straight down from a source that was holding very still.

If there had been a lot of movement or Crystal had been standing, the drops would not have looked like that. They would have been messy. They would have trickled down. Okay. This means that those blood drops on Crystal's legs belonged to someone other than Crystal. They had to have come from when someone was standing above her hanging and then they dropped down onto her leg. Someone else had bled onto Crystal while or after she had died.

Police discover that these drops made a trail over to the sink and then onto the counter all the way to the paper towel dispenser where they stopped. So they think there's two people involved, correct? No, they're just saying that this blood, like all the blood at the scene they thought was crystals just smeared all over the place, dropped all over the place. But because these drops were perfectly...

perfectly circular and they had been dropped from above, there was no way that was her blood. So in their head, they're thinking this is the killer. Oh, we have another blood sample. Yes. Okay. Which is like huge, huge. Cause that is hard physical DNA evidence that puts someone at the crime. It's not circumstantial at all. Yeah.

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code husband, cbdistillery.com code husband. While investigators are excited about the possible blood splatter lead, they also look into the shoe prints. They end up finding a local store that sold the exact shoe that matched the prints left at the crime scene. I mean, that's what I was saying about it being a small town. It would be so easy to find the killer. Yes. Yes. So they end up finding the shoe. It was an Oak Harbor shoe and

This ends up being another great lead for them. They're getting some pretty hard evidence. Back in the lab, medical examiners find evidence of sexual assault on Crystal's body.

Luckily, I mean, not luckily, but luckily for the investigators, they collect the evidence left behind because he did leave evidence behind. Okay. And so they have it in hopes that they can test it someday against somebody. What's also kind of interesting is I'm sure a small town like this, I mean, this happens, what, once in a blue moon? No, yeah. And the detectives that were on this case, they talk about how this is the case that stuck with them. Like all of them get interviewed and they're like, this was the case. Yeah. That case you always hear about.

So with so much DNA evidence and physical forensic leads, police immediately start questioning and eliminating suspects. The most obvious suspect is Crystal's ex-husband Thomas. Before the murder, Crystal had gotten into an altercation with Thomas' girlfriend Joan. It wasn't a secret that Joan did not like her boyfriend's ex-wife, and when they ran into each other at a local bar, she made sure that Crystal knew as well.

She had been actually charged with assault charges after the altercation, but they were eventually dropped. Crystal or? Joan. Oh, okay. So her ex-husband's new girlfriend runs into her at a bar. Yes. They get into a fight and the ex-husband's new girlfriend gets charged with assault. So she gets charged. Got it. Yes. No. Yeah. Crystal doesn't get charged, but the charges do get dropped. Okay. Yeah.

Both Joan and Thomas claim that they were home with each other the night of Crystal's murder. But this isn't really a standalone alibi because of the history between the three people. They're each other's alibis and it's like, well, you guys could have been there together committing it for all we know. Yeah, totally. It's kind of interesting, though, because it would be really easy to...

decide who did it because all they have to do is take his DNA correct so yeah so it sparks rumors in the town many people knowing the distaste that both Joan and Thomas had for Crystal and a lot of people suspecting them of being involved in the murder keep in mind this is a small town and

Um, but before police could chase down the lead and test the DNA found at the crime scene, um, cause keep in mind that takes time and money. 12 year old Sarah, the daughter who was listening behind her bedroom door to the whole murder comes forward with a shocking account. Um,

She claims that she actually recognized the voice of the man that was arguing with her mom the first time she woke up. And it was, in fact, 19-year-old Dennis Butler, Crystal's new boyfriend. And how old is Crystal? 30. Okay. Okay.

So Sarah wasn't surprised to hear them arguing that night. She had seen them yell at each other many times before. Dennis had actually pulled a knife on Crystal during an argument once threatening her life. Jeez. What in the world? She was 19. She was 30. Many said their relationship was extremely toxic. Okay.

With their only witness, I ding Dennis's voice, police immediately questioned him about his whereabouts that night and dropped Thomas and Joan completely. He claims that he was at his parents' house, but when police talked to his parents, they revealed that they have no idea whether he was there or not, also making his alibi unreliable.

That's interesting because I wonder how many parents would have just said, oh, yeah, he was here. He was here. I know, right? I think that too. You know what I'm saying? Like, you better have my back, bro. But I don't know. It's good they were honest. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Right?

Maybe they just didn't like the kid. Yeah, I know. Maybe he was a troublemaker, but that's interesting. So police also determined that Dennis wore the same size of shoe as the prints that were found at the crime scene, although they couldn't find that style of shoe at Dennis's house. Police immediately asked Dennis to take a polygraph.

And I think that we have discussed this before on here. Yeah. But I will say it again, Garrett, if something ever happens to me and police ask you to take a poly, don't do it. I feel like that's not really a, I mean, I don't know enough about that whole world right now, but...

Nowadays, that's probably not a big thing anymore, a polygraph. So this is what I was going to say. They are inaccurate and everybody knows they're inaccurate, but police still use them. So innocent people fell polys all the time. If it comes back as past, they will just continue investigating you and completely throw the polygraph out. Like, oh, well, they come back inaccurate, so we're not going to trust that. We're just going to keep investigating you. But if it comes back as you felled,

like it's it's over for you you probably just sealed your fate yeah i will use them if it works for them i wonder if they use them more as a intimidation method like hey hey you want to get them under pressure yeah but that's the problem is that if you put anybody i would probably fail a poly because i'd be so nervous yeah that it wouldn't read correctly you know like i'm getting questioned for murder how am i supposed to be calm yeah especially if i'm innocent yeah

Yeah, so I just don't. Don't do it. Don't do it. I swear if I'm dead and you do it, I will haunt you. So anyways, he takes his Polly twice and fells both of them.

Immediately, all suspicion turns on Dennis. Police are positive that they have found the guy. Obviously, they haven't tested his DNA against that at the crime scene yet because that takes time and money. But it's known around town that police have zeroed in on Dennis, her boyfriend. I think we've asked this before on one of our podcasts, but does anyone know why it takes so long? Like, is the process really that long? I'm just curious. Yeah, so I had someone reach out to me who said that her mom was a forensic professional

pathologist oh yeah i remember that and she was like i'm gonna ask about the whole dna thing but i never did hear back and honestly i could probably look it up but i am more interested to hear from one of our listeners if they have like a first hand in that like why does it really does it really take that long i know i don't i mean yeah we both obviously don't know and i would love to know but i also want to hear from a listener not have to look that up yeah

And I'm sure all of our listeners would like to know, too. So if you do know, get on and comment or write us in and we'll tell on the next episode what we hear. Or look it up and pretend like you knew. Yeah. That works. Yeah. And then get a free shout out. Yeah. So Dennis tells police, OK, fine. I will willingly give you a sample of my DNA because they didn't want to go through the process of getting a warrant because that also takes time.

And he said, I'll give it to you on one condition. If you do come arrest me while I'm at work, can you please use the back door? Because I don't want you to embarrass the owners of the store I work at because they've been really good to me. What? Yeah. So they were like, oh, OK. So police are confused by his request. If you do come arrest me. That's so strange. So police are confused by his request, but.

but not as confused as to when the DNA tests come back and they don't match Dennis's sample of DNA. Oh, wow. So confused and convinced that they have the right guy. They spend the time and money to run the DNA again. Okay. But it comes back the same. DNA does not lie, baby. Dennis was not the man who left DNA at the crime scene. Dennis did not kill Crystal. Okay. Wow.

So completely shook, Dennis was the perfect guy for the crime. Investigators turned back to their original suspect, Thomas, the ex-hus. They asked for a DNA sample and run it against the sample collected from the crime scene and from Crystal's body. It's not a match. At a loss, detectives decide to run it against a database of known offenders.

And it comes back negative as well. That would be so hard running the DNA and getting negative on both suspects. Because this is such a good case with such good DNA for them. And they just fail every turn. Yeah, that sucks.

Which is scary.

Exactly. Was there someone out there randomly hurting people, stabbing them 50 times in this small of a town? Which I'm going to say, let me tell you, the small ones are the ones you got to worry about. OK, I'm just going to say it. So there was little progress made on the case after this. A suspect here and there, but nothing ever panned out. It was it was truly turning into a cold case.

Police were frustrated. They had all the evidence in this case to put someone away without a doubt, but they just had no one to run it against. And you can't just run it against everybody. Like I said, it takes time, resources, and money. Twelve years after the death of Crystal Perry, her murder was a cold case.

But that year, in 2006, a man by the name of Michael Hutchinson was prosecuted for a weapon offense charge and served six months in prison for it. Okay. Because it was a felony, his DNA was taken and entered into the database. When submitted, do you know what popped up? A match. A match to a 12-year-old cold case.

Michael's submitted DNA matched the unknown sexual assault DNA sample taken from Crystal Perry's homicide case back in 1994. Wow. Now, obviously, everyone involved in this case goes crazy. The magnitude of the calls, the call to Sarah, who had moved to Texas to live with family shortly after the murder and then went on to college. The call to the original detectives who had let this case eat them for years.

Back in 1994, at the time of the murder, Michael Hutchinson was 19 years old and lived in his parents' house only a mile away from Crystal and Sarah in Bridgeton, Maine. He worked as a mason for his father at the time, and there was no significant relationship between Crystal and him. When police question Michael, he admits that he was at Crystal's house the night of the attack, but not to kill her.

Okay, got it. Okay.

So instead of like getting up and getting the attacker off her who's stabbing her, he just ran out. That's just crazy that being that small of a town, he... Wasn't caught. Yeah. Or even questioned. He wasn't caught or even questioned. And he only lived not even two miles away from her. Yeah. It's crazy. Mm-hmm. So...

He never came forward, like called the police when he ran out of the house because he says he was embarrassed that he left Crystal and Sarah to be attacked instead of trying to save them, which let me state they didn't need a man to save them, but maybe a witness to help them out would have been nice. But he couldn't handle the shame that came with running away. So he never came forward about it.

When word breaks that Michael had been questioned in the murder of Crystal Perry 12 years later, his ex comes forward to claim that she doesn't think he could have done it. He had some drug and alcohol problems, and he did show signs of erratic behavior, but not enough to kill someone he didn't even know. That would be a weird experience, committing something, and then 12 years later it kind of showing up in your life. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, because I think you're probably like, oh, it's in my past.

Like I've put that behind me. Obviously a little different because he killed someone. Yeah. It's crazy to think that he probably just forgot about it and moved on. Exactly.

So people are skeptical of Michael's story, obviously, from the start. Number one, Crystal's bed did not look like two people were in it when the attack happened. One side of the bed was clearly still made. And in his questioning, he said, oh, we were both in the bed. But in the crime scene photos, one side of the bed is perfectly made and the other side looks like someone was laying in it. Okay. They knew there was one simple way to know if Michael was lying or not.

They had more DNA. DNA that couldn't be excused by consensual sex within a secret relationship. Investigators test Michael's blood against the drops found at the scene and it comes back as a match. Oh, finally. Michael Hutchinson was arrested and charged with first degree murder.

He doesn't confess, deciding to plead not guilty and stick to his original story and take this all the way to trial. That's crazy. Prosecutors present the night in question as such. Michael and Crystal knew each other casually. It was a small town and they lived less than two miles away from each other. He was most likely high that night and knocked on Crystal's door hoping to hook up.

He used a ruse to get in, like, my phone's not working or my car's not working. Can I come use your phone? Then tried to make a sexual advance on her. Crystal denied him, and so Michael lost it. They began to argue, which escalated to him raping her. All because she said no. Yeah, talk about a guy who can't handle a little bit of... That's ridiculous. So, real quick, the little daughter, the girl, Sarah... Yes.

Did she just think that she heard the other guy's voice then? Yes, because she they argued a lot and she knew they argued a lot. So, you know, she's 12 years old. She wakes up. She hears arguing. She's like, oh, it's just the boyfriend and falls back asleep. Totally. OK, that makes sense. So after he rapes her, Michael, he grabs a knife and stabs her to death.

In the process, he cuts his hand, which bled like crazy, dropping the blood droplets over her body and then ran to the paper towel dispenser to clean it up and dropped all the blood drops all the way there.

When police first questioned Michael, they saw a huge scar on his right palm. And I saw the picture of the scar and I'll post it on social media. It's a bad scar. Like it's just the nail in the coffin at this point. It only took two hours of deliberation for the jury to come back with a guilty verdict.

Michael was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Okay. Cops admit in this story that they don't know how they missed Hutchinson, which is what you said. I mean, I'm not blaming them. It's just that sucks. And I like, I like that they admit to this because too often do we see, uh,

and any investigators, anybody, even prosecutors, judges, who won't admit to the fact that they had the wrong person. Even if the right person comes to play, they'll still be like, oh, well, you know, like...

I know, you know, they won't admit that they made a mistake. Yeah. And these guys didn't put the wrong guy in prison, thankfully. But they were like, we should have known. We should have known. He lived less than two miles away. We never even questioned him. The town was so small. Like they've admitted we shouldn't have missed him. Good thing he's caught, though. Exactly.

Sarah, the 12-year-old daughter, is now doing amazing. She's so strong. She wrote that book that I mentioned at the beginning, and it's been acclaimed all over. It's won a bunch of awards. Oh, really? It's about her process of listening to her mother's murder and then going to get help and then how that affected her and built her into who she is today. Good for her. That's awesome. Yeah. And so she, according to W2PCMS.com,

Sarah says that she remembered her mother as someone who always maintained hope and was full of joy despite being a struggling single mother. She says that she got her strength from being so connected to her mother. She says to see her life tragically ended after having worked so hard. I did have this mentality of wanting to continue her project, which was to lift me up and make sure that I had an easier time in life than she had. And I really didn't want this person to have ruined that for her.

And she did that. She went on, she went to college. She's now living in New York. She's like doing amazing, became an author, writing these books. That's awesome. And so, yeah, ultimately...

she's learned how to grow from this tragedy and justice was served. He was put into prison. And that's the story of Crystal Perry, the overheard tragedy. Dang, we've done what, like 20 of these now? And I still just can't. I'm sure a lot of people think this. I just can't comprehend how you can just kill someone. Stab someone in the head. You can be that upset and that angry that you just. For what? Because you got declined? Yeah.

And like you said, not only was she just got stabbed a couple of times, 50 times. That just blows my mind. Yeah. That's just horrible. And to think of a 12-year-old sitting in the fetal position behind her door. Yeah. Going, what the heck is going on out there? I hope whatever's going on doesn't come in here. I'm so glad, though, that Sarah was in her bedroom and didn't come out during it. Yes. You know, it just seems like...

Yeah, blessing in disguise. Well, because I feel like if he had seen her, he probably would have done the same thing. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't think about that. He didn't know her that well. They never talked that people know of. He probably didn't even realize there was a 12-year-old girl in the house. I didn't even think about that. That's a good point. And I think if she had made noise or come out or done anything, he would have hurt her too. So, I mean, she's just strong.

all on her own to sit there and listen to that and then come out and go, I don't have any time to spare. I don't get to be scared if this guy is still in the house. Like I have to go get help. Yeah. At 12. There's a lot of these stories where the victims or the people that are involved, involved in the cases, uh,

Are just... Champs. Yeah. I know. It just makes you question, like, I don't feel like I could do it. I don't know. Yeah. And I'm just... I'm so impressed by these people we talk about. Even the victims who don't make it. Yes. I'm still impressed by their strong behavior and the way they will themselves. You know, just to fight through something that should never have happened to them. Totally. And that's totally horrific. Yeah. But...

Anyways, that's the story. Go ahead and follow us on social media. We're at murder with my husband on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, even tick tock. Okay. Even tick tock. Um, we've tried. Yeah, we've tried. I'm not going to say it's,

Super successful. If anyone has any good ideas for, I don't know, TikToks that I guess we could do, let us know. Yeah, we post on social media all the time. I think we're almost at 700 followers on Instagram. We hit 701 as I was walking into the room. Thanks.

Thanks. It makes me so happy to have everyone on there and to just feel like we are growing this little community of whoever you are. I mean, we've gotten a lot of comments of... I've seen a lot of comments of other women who are like, my husband hates true crime and now it's like amusing. I can actually play it because it's amusing to them to listen to Garrett and be like, oh, he hates it too. Maybe it's more normal than I thought. I know. If we ever...

You know, I'm thinking big here, obviously. But if we ever get big, all the people who hate true crime, they can come sit with me and we can just indulge in it together. And all of us lovers with such good, happy souls can come over and we can just discuss it. That's so funny. Not to like put your side to shame or anything. No, I know what you're saying. No, it would be awesome. I mean...

I don't know. I feel like I have this little dream that like someday we could do a live show and everyone could come and hang out and talk about this. But. Oh, we have 700 followers. We're on our way. If we can get all 700, then I think we're good. Hey, look,

it but we do have a couple male listeners that are intrigued by this everyone loves you everyone a lot of people love true crime here's the thing is true crime has been something that people have been interested in the beginning of time literally we used to watch people kill each other yeah a gladiator does no it totally makes sense i definitely understand i'm not saying it's great i'm

I'm just saying that people have always been interested in human behavior. And I think most of us listening are interested in human behavior. We're not like, oh, we want to go kill people. We're interested in why people do what they do.

And so why do people do these horrific unthinkable acts? And that's not weird. Yeah. I'm happy that I finally have a place now with all of these people on our social media where it's like, we're not weird. It's not weird that CSI is my favorite TV show, you know, like it's totally acceptable. Yeah. So yeah, that's the story of Crystal Perry and everybody share on your Instagram or on your social media, share our podcast. Okay. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.

Thank you.