High-Conflict Divorce? You Need a BOSS!
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Hi guys, it's Jenny Garth and we are back for part two of my conversation with Samantha Boss, who is the boss when it comes to divorce coaching.

I love this whole business model that you've, it feels like you've created this space, this white space that everybody in this situation needs. And also it feels like you are on, you help the person feel like

Like we're a team. I'm your biggest fan. I'm your cheerleader. And I'm also your quarterback. Let's do this. Here's what we're going to do. And everybody's case is different. And I think that's why I get so frustrated with certain lawyers is they want to use the same template on everybody. And nowadays we have kids with severe medical issues. We got military, we got shift workers. We got people that want to homeschool. We got, you know, holistic and not wanting to do doctors. We got all kinds of people out there.

Why are our parenting plans not custom to our family? Why are we using a template from the state of Indiana? You know, the state of California, we're going to use the same template that the last six families got dished out, but all six families have different dynamics. That is the part that really blows my mind. And I hope someday, someday soon, I can get in front of judges and lawyers and say, these have to be custom. These cannot be just boilerplate stamp it. Oh, yep. Use the guidelines from the state.

No, it can't because kids are the ones that fall through the cracks when that happens. Yeah. Because this is really all about the kids. I mean, this isn't about, I know I've been stating, you know, me having to work with my ex, me having to work with, when I have to work with my ex, my kids get a different version of me that they don't want. My kids want the peaceful mom, the happy mom, the one that's not triggered, the one that doesn't feel threatened, the one that doesn't feel bothered.

That's what my kids want. But if I have to continue to work with him and he does his high conflict bullshit on me, I'm going to always comply because I don't know boundaries yet. And then my kids are getting a bad version of me. So the kids are the ones that pay the price if you're parenting is not good.

They absolutely do. I think it's really cool that your kids know the ins and outs of what you're talking about. And they have also their own experience of it, unfortunately. But it sounds like they, you know, it would be very cool if they were on their way to helping other young people. I know they will. They're going to deny it right now. But when they come and do trainings with me, as soon as they get off, they're like, okay,

I was like, how's that feel? They're like, first off, that was exhausting. But they're like, that feels so good to share because I know my story, even though they don't paint me as a rainbow unicorn mom. They're like, that story is going to help other moms not make the mistake you made. And I'm like, hell yeah. Because I was a dysregulated mom those first eight years. I'll be honest. I was a screamer. I was a yeller. I was a...

don't play with your brother. You know, like, cause I had to focus on paper. Yeah. You know, and I, I wasn't attentive to them. I was so distracted with bullshit that I was a shit mom and I was just angry all the time or I'd go on a cleaning rampage and,

And they were just like walking on eggshells in my house. Now, all of us have had a shit ton of therapy together and separately. So we're all better. And I offered for them. I'm like, hey, is it OK if I share your stories? Absolutely. I mean, because they're healed through their therapy of like, yeah, that's our past. But if our past can help other people share it, let's do it. They love doing trainings. They love it.

I would too. It's just helping somebody when they need it so badly. Okay. So I think that one of the things that I realized in my situation through my divorce that became a really big problem was that me and my ex were

We talked way too much over text messages, which is not good in terms of, you know, you can't tell someone's tone or if what you're saying is being heard and effective and the right way you meant it. You can read so much into text messaging. And we just didn't want to talk to each other. So we fell into...

firing off texts, whether they were good or bad and, you know, and just being short with each other and, and then putting the phone down and walking away, which was so infuriating when, you know, you're like, I really need to work this out with you right now. Right. Right. Well, a couple of things, number one, good parenting plan. You won't have to talk as much, you know, if you cover all the detail and you won't have to be communicating as much. Number two, I mean, I don't know how old you are, but I'm, I was before the whole apps were out. You know, texting was like

T-9ing had just came out when I was getting a divorce. That's how old I am. So like people are like, why didn't you use an app? I'm like, they weren't invented yet. Okay. People were actually still calling people on the phone and having to talk. So I think first and foremost, an app to, you know, so you have your really good parenting plan to limit, plan out as much as you can in there. But then if something does fall through a sickness, a transportation issue, something like that, or, Hey, I need to switch a holiday or, Hey, I have to work or whatever.

That's when we got to go through the app and or I recommend my clients to always develop an email that's just for divorce and co-parenting and school stuff. Something that's not your work email, that's not your personal email, that's designed for, I know I'm only checking this when I'm ready to think about divorce and co-parenting. Yeah.

And so you don't get ahold of me right now on my work computer and ding, get to blow up my day. Ding, interrupt my mood. It's an email that's completely separate that maybe you only have on your iPad. That's a good idea. Or check somewhere else. But even still, we talk a lot about, I run a private membership for moms only called The Next Chapter. And I do it with my bestie, Leah Marie.

And I would say she's the pretty calm one and I'm the high maintenance, like off the wall in your face, you know, person in our group. But we run a membership group where we give trainings on specific stuff like this, where we break down and say, okay, if you're a thumb warrior, we got to train you through, like, why are you so emotionally dysregulated? Why do you feel the urge to defend yourself against someone that's never going to agree with you?

And we break that down as to why, why, why. And we teach them Greyrock and we teach them how to use ChatGPT. But the apps are where it's at. That way, everything that does get said could possibly be read by a third party professional and then evaluate who is the problem.

But yeah, the whole urge to go back. A lot of that is just a self-worth issue. You feel like you have to defend against someone that's never going to change their judgment on you whatsoever. Or you're not right with them and you want to be heard, but you're not going to be heard that way. Yeah, never. They're never going to receive what you're delivering. Not the way you meant to deliver it. They will always receive it.

differently. Like I tell the story all the time of my ex-husband. I sent him a message on email back in the day. And I said, Hey Walker, our oldest lost his tooth. And I sent a picture and he said, you know, why are you sending me this? I knew his tooth was loose. And I said, I know I was just sharing with you. He goes, the tooth has been loose for a week. How did you not know that?

oh, you're right. Like, because I didn't tell him the tooth was loose a couple of weeks ago when I didn't, it's just something so that I thought would be joyful. I thought it would be just the thing to like, get us on this, like, oh, thanks for letting me see the picture. It

It was as soon as I told him I got berated of how, you know, I didn't take care of the tooth. That's probably why it was lost because I don't brush his teeth. It was just everything I ever did got turned twist and hooked upside down to how I was the bad person. And I was a slow learner. Eight years. I did that shit until my kids looked me dead in the face of the kitchen table one day. And they said, would you just stop? He hates you. Would you just stop? You're embarrassing yourself. And that's when I went to therapy and I was like, this is what my kid just said. She's like, oh, gosh.

Oh, gosh. We have some work to do. We have. Yeah. If your kids told you this after this many years, it's been bad for a while and you've had blinders on. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Cause they don't want to tell mom she's not doing well. And I was not doing well. And they don't want to see mom doing, not doing well. No. And they were just sick of me getting my feelings hurt, but it was like, I was stepping into the pile of shit every time on my own. You know, I got out of the car. I walked up to him at sporting events. I was engaging with him. Like, cause I thought I want, I wanted everybody to see that I'm not the problem. I want my kids to see I'm not the problem. Like, look at me being nice. I look like fucking Mary Poppins everywhere. I went like joy, joy, joy. And then he's just wah, wah, wah. And I'm like,

it was just, it was humiliating what I put myself through because I didn't know what boundaries. I didn't know I could say no. I didn't know I could stay in the car. I didn't know I didn't have to talk to him. Like I felt obligated to, because I had a court system saying, be the better parent, be flexible, be a good girl. Let the judge like you don't be a problem. So I didn't know what that meant to me. It meant kisses ass. And it wasn't, Hey, teach boundaries because what ended up happening by me not having boundaries is both. My children became people pleasers.

And then they lost themselves for a while. And then I found boundaries. And then, man, they jumped on the bandwagon right after me. And now they're both badasses and very independent and do whatever the hell they want to whoever they want when they want. But that took a lot of work for us all to get there.

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That includes our introductory five-piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60-day money-back guarantee. All of that available at MeaningfulBeauty.com. Oh my God, I feel like I'm listening to my life played back for me in so many of these situations. So I can really see how...

I mean, at first I was like a membership. I don't want to be a member of the Divorce People's Club. Like that doesn't sound fun. But now hearing you explain it, you call it the next chapter, right? We call it the next chapter. It's a monthly membership. We give a new training every Monday. There's 100 hours worth of trainings already in there. And then we run two Q&As a month. So you can post a question, jump on or just watch the recording. So it's all women right now.

that are all dealing with high conflict divorces or high conflict co-parenting journeys. They're in that middle phase, right? They were just married and we are that middle ground of like, let me build you back up, sister. Let me give you all the tools. We have stuff in there about finances, about fitness, about money, about parenting as a single parent, discipline as a single parent, how to do it when your kids don't want to go. Kinds of stuff of like stuff that you're too ashamed to ask people, you

You know, you're too embarrassed or you're just like, I don't want anybody to know how toxic this shit is. Hang out with strangers. You know, they don't know. They don't know. And we are building such a great safe community for people to be vulnerable and open up. We gave a training yesterday about boundaries and I just spoke some truth about I sucked at boundaries and I couldn't believe how many women were like, I'm ashamed, but I do this too. I do this too. I'm too scared. I'm too. And it's just like,

I think that was a game changer for every woman on there to hear that here's this woman on their social media all the time that they look up to that I didn't have it all together at all for eight years. So I don't want women to lose eight years. I want them to lose eight weeks and they figure it all out and they're good. Not eight years like I did. I lost eight years with my kids because I was distracted with bullshit.

That sucks. It does. I'm so sorry for you. I'm so sorry for me. I haven't calculated the amount of years that I lost, but it's probably about eight years, honest to God, of me being in my own torture device. Because nobody was talking about it back then. You know, nobody was talking. There wasn't TikTok and all these social media. And it was embarrassing. I didn't want to talk about it because I felt like I was a failure. I had done this. It was my fault somehow. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's just so many emotions that take over your mind in situations like that. Exactly. And so I think that's why I love doing it. You know, like some people may be embarrassed. They're like, I can't believe you just told that story.

I used to smoke and drink in my garage once my kids went to bed. Okay. I love you so much more right now than it was in your garage. Were you sitting in a lawn chair at all? No, I was sitting on the steps to the door and I hid the cigarettes and the tennis shoes right next to the door. Like I didn't make it hard. Yeah.

I didn't make it hard. But I quit smoking when my son caught me at a golf outing. One time I took a drag off someone's cigarette and he was like, that's disgusting. And I was like, okay, girl, it's about time to get your shit together. And that was right when my awakening started to happen of like, do you even love yourself? You know, like you're so worried about this man being nice to you that hates your guts. Do you love yourself right now? Are you proud of yourself? And it was...

It was a deep dive into own it. That's what it takes. That's what it takes. I thought I was going to go to this therapist and we were going to save our marriage, but I didn't know we were going to this therapist and he had planned to end our marriage at that session. And I remember one thing from that therapy session and it was the therapist looking me straight in my eyes and saying, Jenny, why?

why do you want to love a man who doesn't love you? Ouch. Okay. I got to go now. Like it just like hit so hard. Well, that goes with divorce and co-parenting. So my kids were basically telling me in this, what my therapist later said, why are you treating him with kind words when he disrespects you? What are your kids going to do when their future boyfriend or employer or peer treats them like shit? Are you, you're going to want your kids to fuck you. And

you know, and stand up for themselves. But what are they mirroring right now? They're watching you still go back to a man that keeps treating you in front of them. He was not shy. He would do this in front of them and talk about me behind my back to them. And then they're watching you still be Mary Poppins all the time. Like no way you're going to have to show them what boundaries and getting rid of people and knowing your worth. Like, yes. Finding out like I actually, my time, my words, my,

This is all, I'm worth something more than this. Yeah. Yeah. I just got that tattoo worth on my arm because I absolutely did. Because that word I think is what saved me is I'm worthy of being special. Like I, this, I'm not defined by him saying you're a piece of shit, mom, you're this, you're that.

I have worth and that's why i'm good at my job is because I can I I do have value I am an expert in my you recognize that in yourself Yeah, and it's amazing. I have two more kids with my husband who are only six and five because i'm crazy and had kids at 40 Yeah, yeah, whoa is right. Um

And the way I parent these two in hindsight, like I have emotional stories like out the wazoo of looking back on how much I was not emotionally regulated for the first two and how I am now. And even when my bigs come home, they're like, these two have it fucking easy, man. Like they don't see you crazy. They don't see you bouncing off the walls, yelling, screaming, crying, throwing a fit, raging, whatever. And I'm not, I'm at peace now because I know my self-worth and

back then I didn't. And again, thank God we had therapy and we've worked through things with the big kids, but they are, they recognize and they're proud of me, you know, that I put the work in so that their brothers have different lives than what they've had. But yeah, there was a lot of things that happened for my kid. And I know, I know there's women out there and dads who are emotionally dysregulated and you got to figure it out. You have value, you have worth and you should love yourself and you got to work on all that shit before you can ever be able to deliver it to your kids, ever be able to find somebody new and,

And again, my business partner, Leah, she jumped from one marriage to the next because she didn't have worth. And then she worked on it and then she found the man of her dreams. It takes work. Yes. And nobody wants to do that work. Spending time with yourself, listening to yourself, like loving yourself up when it's not easy. Exactly. Exactly. I have goosebumps for you because I'm so happy that you've found your worth and you have this...

feeling of assuredness behind you now, like that you're just unstoppable, but that's what happens to us women. You know, we, we, sometimes it might take some other, some people longer than others to learn these important things, but we all eventually learn them. Absolutely. I mean, I, I'm glad I learned them. I'm sorry it took eight years, but I have eight, eight years worth of great moments to be able to teach other women about. That's right. Yeah.

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At California Psychics, we know some people can't read the career warning signs. Like your boss, still not knowing your name. You, Tina, Lisa, Sheila, Liza.

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What about co-hosting birthday parties for your kids when you're going through a high conflict divorce? Should you avoid that? Should you be hosting them together or separately? What do you think? I'm a rip the bandaid off. We're doing everything separate from here on out. And here's why. And this is where people in divorce have blinders on because they're doing what they think the children want and what they think that will appear as in unity. Kids act different with each parent. I

I don't care even if you're married, your kids, when one of you is home and the other one comes home, your kids flip a little bit and act a little bit different. Nothing could be more true in a divorce setting, especially one of high conflict. You know, my Joe was one example. She was a bubbly, you know, singing, dancing, spinning down the hallway type of kid when she was with me. She was very reserved with her dad.

So if we would have had a birthday party together, she would have had to pick which personality she wanted to be. And hands down, kids always pick the high conflict personality parent to cater to because they fear loss of love or that parent being like, why are you acting that way? You know, judgment. So having them together, it's not always what your kids want. I know maybe you have a six-year-old or a seven-year-old and divorce is fresh. They're like, yes, I want you both there, blah, blah, blah. That's great. But ultimately, I also have to ask, what's my self-worth?

Do I put myself in a binding position for an hour and a half just to please my child? So then I'm frozen in fear for an hour and a half that he's going to come in my ear or say something to me or embarrass me or, you know, talk to the whole room about, I'm not putting myself in that position. I have higher value of myself. So I'm not going to even put myself there. So I'm 10 out of 10. Do not recommend.

No, separate. I can have a great party. And here's what you'll realize in going through divorce. One of you will be the friend party person and one of you will be the family party person. One of you will be the scavenger hunt person. That's who I am. One of you will be the, you know, slip away for a holiday, you know, a birthday. You will find your own dynamic. You don't have to have a party. This is where you need to start knowing your kid and making it special and unique. Don't do what the Joneses do across the street. Do something

cool when you're in a divorce just to eliminate that whole thing. You know, again, second set of kids. I don't do big birthday parties, never doing that shit again. We will do something special. We are not, I'm not hosting 13, seven girls. You're not going to stay up until 2 a.m. making a pinata from scratch? Never ever. Cause I'm going to be in my sixties by the time that shit happens. So it's never ever, you know, like I'm just not doing that. And again, I think that's where

What's important to me? I'm not, you shouldn't be doing things just because other people are. Well, you know, Kevin's parents are married and they're having a group birth. Exactly. Then you feel like you feel bad because you're not able to have such a peaceful situation. There were times when I opened up my home to my ex and his new girlfriend. And I'll never forget that, you know, I had tried to be so strong and stoic. And then you're exhausted afterwards.

Yeah, and I remember sitting there and watching a video compilation that he had put together for our daughter for her birthday. And everybody crowded around in the family room and watched this fun video and laughing and having the best time watching it. And there were no images of their mother in the video. Not only that, but the new girl that was being basically told to have a life with...

was the star of the movie. Like it was, she was like queen. And I was like, is this really happening? He did that and slept well at night. And that's where people need to wake up. Like I'm not setting myself up for that anymore. Because they're not thinking what you, how are she feeling about it now? They don't care.

They don't care. It's just not who they are. They're on to something else. We went out of our way to make sure we had his favorite drink. Hey, what does she enjoy? Is she a white wine, red wine girl? Let me make sure. You made sure they were comfortable in your home, but then they did not reciprocate. And that's where when that happens once or twice, that's a pattern behavior. Put that on your bingo card and start learning it because then it's on you if you keep doing it. Because you're allowing it to happen. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And nobody's going to be mad at you or think you're a bad person if you don't go to your kid's birthday party. You're protecting yourself, and that's way more important. And your kids, honestly, I feel like my kids were always on pins and needles whenever we were together. Mm-hmm.

Although they wanted that desperately. And they would say, can we just all have dinner? Can we all be together? Because they want that old family unit back together. But the reality of it, it didn't feel good when it was happening. And it wasn't until I found that piece that you talk about finding after eight years that my kids were like,

I feel like now we can be together in the same room and we can have those family experiences again. And there's just, there's nothing there for me. No emotional pull or desire to prove anything or. Yeah.

It's easy. I think eight years was toxic. I went through a phase where I rebuilt and we rode in the car together to a tournament and my daughter rode home with us. And she was like, it was silent. Like the first 10 minutes, she's like, this is so fucking weird. Like she was in high school, but she was like,

this is so bizarre that your boat, I, she was one when we got divorced. She was like, I've never been in the car with the both of you that I can remember. Now it was a short phase where we got along. That, that phase was a very small window in her life where we were, you know, kumbayaing it. But, um, that car ride was memorable. Um,

It's funny now to look back on that. It was all just a facade probably by both of us, but we did it. But yeah, it's okay to not ever have those moments again. And now looking back on it, she would, she's trained. And so does my, my son Walker. They will say, no, don't do shit together because we are different people in front of each parent. And then we don't know who to be. And then we have our friends around going, why are you acting that way? You know? And it's because there's one parent there that they don't feel comfortable being their true selves with.

So no, I think your kids will adjust when you adjust. But if you're not adjusted to it, then you're going to. And here's the other tip. Stop asking your kids what the hell they want. They're kids. They don't know. Why are you seeking validation from a seven-year-old? Because you want so badly to make them happy. You'll basically do anything. No, I don't think it's happy. Is it the guilt of the divorce? I think it's you want to make sure they're okay with you.

You want to make sure that kiddo's still okay with you. Kiddo, you know, what do you want? If you want me to go there, I'll go. No, this is where I need to teach my kid a boundary early on. Kiddo, I know you may want us both there, but I didn't ask you. But if you came and told me I'm responding and I'm saying, kiddo, I know you may want us both there, but that's not good for mom. So how about as soon as it's done, I'll pick you up and then we'll go out for ice cream afterwards. But we're not going to be at the same place at the same time. Okay. Yeah.

I'm not leaving it up for discussion, but I think I have a lot of parents that'll say, you know, Hey, you know, it's almost time for dad to pick up. You know, do you want to go? It's like, why are you even asking your kid that like the whole reassurance thing? We can't be seeking from children. We have to know that we're making good decisions because we're a good parent.

Yeah. We're the adults. We're the parents. What about spring break? Spring break is here. It's happening. Summer's coming. What about vacations and how that can affect the custody and the parenting plan? So spring break, I love to do every other year. So you get even years. I get odd years. I know a lot of people are like, let's split it in half. No way, man. I want to be gone for a full week during my year. And you can be gone during a full week on your year. I'm not coming back on a Wednesday because then

what if there's a delay? And then now my vacation plans, I was leaving Wednesday night and now you've screwed me up. So we're just doing a whole week. You know, here's the tricky part though. We got to, we got to put specifics in there about do we get both weekends or just one weekend? So am I going on vacation for spring break leading my weekends the first, and then it goes for that whole week. And then I have to be back by Friday or do I get to take that second weekend? Those kinds of details really, really matter for vacations. I recommend three weeks and some people are always going to look at me and say, Sam, I'm

I'm middle class. I can't do three weeks vacation. Are you kidding me? And here's my perspective on that. Two weeks is pretty normal. But that third week is for a buffer when you have a high conflict ex and you say, hey, my sister's getting married in October. It looks like it falls on your weekend. Can I have the kids? No, no.

Okay, then I'm booking a week, my third week of vacation over that weekend. And now he can't take away that wedding opportunity. That third week is used as a buffer throughout the year for any special occasions that you may need. You can call in your vacation because they can't deny a vacation if your paperwork is written really well. And the other thing about picking three weeks is I want people to start manifesting and understanding that you won't always be poor. If you change your mindset, you won't always be good.

paycheck to paycheck, barely surviving. You will, especially if you stop going after old toxic money. If you start focusing on rebranding yourself, getting confidence, self-worth, you're going to attract not only new people, but new opportunities. And so you can afford...

three weeks vacation. I would have never thought that at the beginning either when I was a teacher on a teacher's salary, but now I can definitely afford three weeks vacation. But my parenting plan would have been built just on me being a teacher and that salary. Your life's going to change if you want it to. Yeah. You have to, you have to clear the way though, clear the bad out.

Yes. Get all of the effects, the lingering effects of all that negativity out of your life, out of your mind and reframe and go on a different path because guess what? You get to now. You get to do whatever you want. Yes, absolutely. You know, and vacations again,

I push my people to do year round vacations, January to December, because not everybody can take off work in June and July with their jobs. And it's very pricey to travel just during those months. But again, this is a moral compass question between you and your ex during mediation. Do you believe that school is more important than family time? You know, if you pick three weeks of vacation, your ex gets three weeks vacation. That's six weeks that the kids could miss of school.

Could you put parameters that only two weeks could be during the school year and the rest of it has to be during the summertime? Again, that level of detail. I know some people may listening be going, oh my gosh, she's a control freak. Push come to shove. You are looking at it from just your perspective. You're assuming that the other side is going to have the exact same perspective. And I can tell you, I wouldn't be popular if that statement was true. So,

You have to write down what you want it to mean, not what you think it should mean. But what does that mean? I write mine at the level that a third grader can understand it.

It's not written in legal jargon. It's very simplistic. Parent will do this. Mom will do this. Dad will do this. Parent one, parent two, however it is. It's got to be easy to follow. Not these big, huge, long paragraphs where you have to have a flow chart next to you with notes. None of that. Nobody's got time for that. No, I have to call my lawyer. What does that paragraph mean? Yeah. No way.

Well, this has been such a fascinating conversation. Samantha, I just think you're doing God's work, basically, you know, coming in and helping people in this such a vulnerable time. And it's really amazing that you're offering this to people. And I actually, if I was in a different situation, different time in my life, I would join your conversation.

your club, your next chapter club. Thank you. Thank you. It's been awesome being on. I hope the listeners just know that don't be ashamed. Don't be embarrassed. It's part of it. It's where you're at. You might as well get as much information as you possibly can and know that you've done everything possible to make the best choice. I have a lot of people that find me too late. Like we said at the beginning where they're like, where were you? Or I didn't believe you or man, you were right. Like, don't let that be you. Maybe I could put you on a retainer.

Just like, you know, just in case. Yes. Absolutely. I don't want it to happen, but oh my gosh, you're great. I think you're just great. So keep it up. Keep going. You're doing great. Thank you so much. Are you going through a high conflict divorce and need some guidance? Feeling like maybe you don't know what to do?

Email us or call us. We are here to help. All of the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two and I heart radio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. At California psychics. We know that sometimes you can wake up thinking, Oh, I don't know if I'm in the right career. You or the right relationship, but whatever your life dilemma, I can help you.

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