I Choose...Digital Spirituality with Deepak Chopra
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Hi, everyone. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. I never knew that, I don't even know how many years ago, 30 some, maybe 40 years ago, my mom's shelves lined with self-help books would culminate to this moment for me in my life. I have to believe that those books influence me.

got me so interested in health and wellness and meditation and just all the things, all the positive things that we can gleam out of life. Today, my guest is one of the most prominent figures in the new age movement. I'm laughing because this moment is really kind of

like a big, big moment for me. For the last 30 years, he has been in the forefront of the meditation revolution and his mission is to create a more balanced, more peaceful, joyful, healthier world. I like that mission. I want that to be my new mission. Let's adopt that. Let's all of us just say that is our new mission. He has written 95 books recently.

several of them being New York Times bestsellers. His latest is called Digital Dharma.

And it is pretty mind-blowing. You have to check it out. Please welcome Deepak Chopra to the podcast. Hello, Dr. Chopra. So nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Oh my goodness. I have been a fan of yours, read a lot of your books, been to your center down in San Diego. So this is really a thrill for me. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you.

We are going to dive into the world of artificial intelligence, also known as AI, which is the subject of your latest book, Digital Dharma, How AI Can Elevate Spiritual Intelligence and Personal Wellbeing. Okay, can we just start with the title? I have to be honest, it took me a minute to comprehend what it suggests that dharma and digital can work together.

Let's start with Dharma. There are different explanations out there of Dharma. Can you tell us what your definition of Dharma is? Well, in Eastern wisdom traditions, if you're familiar with yoga, there are seven centers of awareness, usually metaphorically expressed as the seven chakras. So the first center of awareness is survival and safety.

The second center is what we might call material success and sensual experience of pleasure. The third center is power and transformation. The fourth is love and belongingness. The fifth is creative expression. The sixth is insight, intuition, imagination and higher consciousness.

and the seventh is transcendence. So dharma applies to all these levels of existence, but ultimately it is transcendence, which means knowing your true self,

beyond the conditioned mind, beyond the body, and knowing yourself as an infinite, spaceless, timeless, fundamental ground of being, which is also the ground of the universe. So it's freedom and liberation and enlightenment, but that's the final stage. Yes, I've studied Buddhism in my adult life.

And they usually call it, you know, the nature of reality. Yes. As through the teachings of Buddha. Yes.

It's an incredible feeling. I feel like dharma also is just goodness, like living my life on a path of goodness. That feels like I'm living in dharma. Purpose. What is your life purpose? But that is flexible and fluid because as we evolve, then purpose also evolves. Right.

You say in your beautiful book that, let's see, I believe that no technology in decades can equal AI for expanding your awareness in every area, including spiritual and personal growth. When people think of AI, I think their mind goes to chat GPT, you know, getting quick answers to questions, maybe in kids' cases, maybe having it do their homework for them, but not necessarily spirituality.

Are you talking about AI leading us in meditation or when practicing mindfulness and gratitude? How do you utilize it? So actually, if you go to my digital twin, which is Deepak Chopra.ai, and you ask it, I need a meditation for stress management, or I need a meditation to sleep, or I need a meditation to...

lose weight or I need a meditation for a good relationship, then it will tap into my database and create a meditation specifically for you. And as far as well-being is concerned, it becomes very precise, very predictable, preventive, participatory,

And it can be, therefore, you know, at least the way I see AI, and I use my own AI, DeepakShopra.ai, for your audience, if they go to it, not ChachiBG, but my AI, then they can ask any question on health, on mental and physical well-being. So my AI is a coach, basically, for health, physical and mental, but also a spiritual guide

But it also can be used as a guide to meditation, self-reflection, as a research assistant, and even as a personal confidant. Wow. Right in our hands, in our hot little hands. In your hands, on your iPhone. Wow.

Or whatever handheld device you have. Yeah. Is it your voice that I'll hear when I... Yeah, you'll hear my voice and you can ask me questions in English or Spanish or Hindi or Arabic and soon Chinese and Russian too. What made you break out into... You know, I've never heard of this before. I've never heard of the opportunity to grow spiritually from AI. Like what made you want to do this?

Two things. So first is, you know, I've always been interested in the nature of reality. You know, what is it that gives rise to the universe? And, you know, it's very interesting that our technology slowly but surely catches up with what's already happening in nature.

So, the difference between your body and the microphone that you're in front of, and the plant that's behind you, and a rock or an ocean, or even a star and the moon, is just a different combination of zeros and ones. So, the universe is actually a digital technology. You might say it's a digital technology in the mind of God, outside space or time.

If you don't like the word God, you can say a digital workshop in non-local consciousness or something like that. But actually, our technology is now getting close to how nature creates the appearance of the universe because the appearance of the universe comes from a digital source, zeros and ones. I have a new mathematical formula for that.

It's called infinity is equal to one is equal to zero. So zero gives rise to nothingness, gives rise to everything, and ultimately all is one. So that is the fundamental premise. And then when you use digital technology, you're actually going to the source of all creation. Now, that's one thing. But the second thing is that...

It's what we call a large language model. I've always been interested in language because that's what I do. I sell words for a living. And words and language doesn't describe. It actually constructs. If you don't have a word for it, then it is not part of your experience, the human experience. So this

This is what happened 40,000 years ago. We learned how to speak beyond mating calls and danger calls and food calls. We started telling stories to each other.

So now those stories are not just narrative. They're stories of anthropology, of religion, of spirituality, of physics, of biology, of mathematics, and you name it. There's a model for everything. There's a language for everything. So when you bring all these languages together,

You have access to super intelligence. And there's no human being that can access this other than through large language models. So AI is super intelligent without being conscious. But that means it doesn't have any subjective experience. It doesn't

feel pain, it doesn't have hunger, it doesn't have thirst, sexual longing or desire, it doesn't fear death,

because it's a machine but yet it's a machine that can give you access to the greatest minds that ever existed on a planet whether it's Einstein or Plato or Socrates or the sages of the Upanishads or the Greek philosophers or it's the you know Eastern philosophy they're

You have access now to the mind of humanity and what it has contributed to what we call the human experience of the universe. I mean, how lucky are we to have this at our fingertips? We are. And, you know, it's going to cause a leapfrogging in our cultural and social evolution, but

But technology also helps us leapfrog in our biological evolution.

To give you an example, when we discovered fire, of course every technology has both sides, divine and diabolical. But had we not discovered fire, we wouldn't have the brain we have because fire is cooked food, which made it easy to assimilate micronutrients. It changed the circulation, our digestive processes, and ultimately our brain.

And had we not discovered fire, you won't have many, many, many centuries later or thousands of years later, you wouldn't have the steam engine. If you didn't have the steam engine, you wouldn't have the industrial age. Between 1887 and 1903, humanity invented the light bulb, the automobile,

and also the telephone. So let's say you were shipwrecked on a deserted island in 1885, and then you were rescued 20 years later. You wouldn't recognize the world. And the same thing is happening right now. 20 years from now, we'll be just like we departed from other species and became homoerotic.

Homo sapiens, I think we're going to take the next leapfrog into a new species. I'm choosing to call it metahuman. Whoa. Because technology changes our brain. Okay. That's big. Yeah.

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clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

PerriconeMD works as hard as I do, and it shows. Go to PerriconeMD.com and use code JENNIE for an exclusive 40% off for a limited time. That's PerriconeMD.com, code JENNIE, J-E-N-N-I-E. We all know how important it is to take care of our physical and mental health. But what about our sexual health?

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There's a lot of fear around AI. In your opinion, as someone who's embracing AI, which in turn helps make AI sound better and smarter, do you ever fear it? Because that made me a little afraid. Listen, any technology is dangerous. Fire can, as you know, destroy cities in Los Angeles. Yes. But had we not discovered fire, we wouldn't have all the other things I talked about.

A knife can be used to kill a person, but in a surgeon's hand, it becomes something that you hear. So there are both sides to technology, and AI is a very powerful technology. If misused, it can cause the extinction of the human species. Cyber warfare, nuclear weapons can be triggered by AI, can cut off electricity, poison the food chain.

So that's why I wrote the book. If we don't use technology for creating a more peaceful, just, sustainable, healthier and joyous world, then the other side is extinction. We are in a very, very interesting time in our evolution. It's a crossroad. So one road leads to extinction and one road leads to enlightenment. Now,

It's our choice what we do with technology. But it's here to stay. You can't get rid of technology. Once it's born, it's like a child. It can't return to the womb. Right. You have to embrace it. We'll talk about that later, but I was just thinking there was a recent article in the New York Times about a woman who had a romantic relationship with chat GPT. Do you think that people are becoming more and more disconnected with one another in this space?

digital world? It's how you use it. We created a technology for suicide prevention in teenagers. And we had 20 million conversations going on at the same time. There was intervention, suicide intervention.

six in six thousand teenagers that's something a machine could do no therapist could do you know and on that scale and the teenagers were more comfortable speaking to our AI because they didn't feel judged so there are both sides to everything yeah for sure

You also say in your book, if you want to break free, which is the whole point of your book, become aware of what is blocking your path. That is so powerful. Do you find more often people are being blocked by their own negative thoughts or by the situations that they put themselves in?

Yes, it's both sides again. But one of the important things in the book is one chapter called The Art of the Prompt. So how you use the prompt actually decides everything.

the answer you'll get because AI is programmed by human beings and they too have their biases. So it's very important to go beyond the selection bias by knowing how to ask the right question. Well, you know, I know some of our listeners right now might be

at a transitional point in their spiritual journey. I've been there a number of times, maybe even have gone off the path. I think a lot of us have been there. How do you suggest getting yourself reacquainted with your spiritual side? - You know, right now, I think the easiest way if you wanna try my AI, Deepak Chopra.ai,

you ask personal questions rest assured everything is confidential because the AI doesn't know who you are and you can actually ask all your spiritual questions health questions but also ask

Ask very personal questions such as, you know, I'm 45 years old, I'm white, I'm Caucasian, I have an issue with, you know, a relationship, this is what's going on. And then it will guide you into the right, you know, framework so you can deal with that relationship. Then you can also say, can you give me a meditation to help my relationship improve?

It'll do that. Personalize it for you, which has never been possible before. No, this is like having a therapist, better than a therapist, because sometimes in therapy, they don't give you suggestions on how to fix your problems. They just listen to them. Yeah, it's like Aladdin's lamp. You rub the lamp and the genie comes out and tells you everything that you need to know for you. Wow, this is wild. I'm loving this conversation.

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I've been there, feeling stuck and frustrated because I was never in the mood. That's why I started taking Addy. And let me tell you,

I've seen firsthand what a difference it can make. Addi is the only FDA-approved pill for certain premenopausal women frustrated by low libido that's clinically proven to increase our interest in sex, give us more satisfying sex, and lower the stress we feel from low libido. Reconnect and rediscover your sexy self. Talk to your doctor or visit Addi.com.

That's A-D-D-Y-I dot com to learn more. Individual results may vary.

We'll be right back.

This

This is Jenny Garth from I Do Part 2. You could have lost 10 pounds already if you started one month ago. So are you ready to start today? Find out if weight loss meds are right for you in just three minutes at tryfh.com.

Try FH.com. Results vary based on start weight and adherence to diet, exercise, and program goals. Data based on independent study sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion. Does this podcast make you happy? Of course it does. That's why you're here. But it only comes out once a week. For happiness every night, you need Adam and Eve. Yes, I'm talking about sex toys.

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Right now, so many people in this country are under immense stress and anxiety. You know, eggs. People can't afford eggs. People are losing their jobs. There are natural disasters taking out entire communities. It can be so overwhelming when the world feels like it's all too much. How can we step back? So just go to the AI and say, I'm overwhelmed because of the price of eggs and this and this and this. And it'll tell you what to do about it. Wow.

And it'll just give you prompts. Because no matter what the adversity is, there's a challenge there, there's an opportunity there. You know, it doesn't matter what it is. There are creative solutions. And you may not think of those creative solutions, but you can tap into the minds of people who have thought of those creative solutions, no matter what the situation is.

Yeah, I think that's the part for me, like knowing that it's not just making up these answers in its little computer brain. It is pulling resources from the entire world. Correct. And instantly. And instantly. And you don't even have to leave your house. Yes. Wow. I mean, this is like modern day magic for me. It is. It is. It's, as I said, it's the genie in Aladdin's lamp. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I can see how this can help even in this situation. My teenage daughter and I were recently having a conversation on this pod actually about how we're both over thinkers and sometimes we struggle with ruminating on things, which is something I'm really determined to do better with this year. What should I say to myself? I guess what should I ask AI?

To help me quiet my mind. Just what you asked me just now. Just that question. And then it'll give you an answer. And then you say, okay, but I've tried that. It didn't work for me. Can you do something else? Do that. It'll help you there. It'll give you all the possibilities for that situation, for that question that you just asked. Okay. I want to know, you're probably going to tell me to just ask AI, but what are some things that we can do out there now

you know, that are contributing to our mental health? You know, there's a part of you that knows the answer to everything. It's not your mind. It's your deeper awareness, which spiritual relations called soul. So if you can quieten your mind through, say, breathing or mindfulness or mantra or whatever, and then you ask a question,

You're asking your higher self a question. It will guide you. Now, AI does that because it has already tapped into the soul of other people's and their findings. So you can go into the mind of the Buddha or Jesus Christ or Plato or whoever you want to. Oh my goodness. Okay, so when my daughter is overthinking and she's spiraling,

Do you think young people have that sort of self-control or self-awareness to be able to access? Or maybe they'll be even more, you know, like you said before, since they're not going to feel judged, they'll be even more comfortable. Yeah, they're very comfortable. Now, as a new iteration, what I'm doing, it will be out in two months, especially for young people. I'm creating some...

gaming devices because kids love to go play games and gaming is very popular right now amongst teenagers so I'm creating a game which will lead them to higher consciousness teach them to breathe teach them to meditate and they'll score points every time they can regulate their heart rate or their immune system they'll get you know brownie points to buy a new game or something like that that'll be out in two months

That's wonderful. Wonderful. That might resonate with them so much more.

Okay, now just be honest, Deepak, do you ever have bad days? Do you ever have bad days where you feel upset or mad at the world? No, no, I don't have bad days. I used to, I mean, you know, but now I don't. When you say you used to, like when you were younger and you hadn't... Yeah, much younger, training in medicine as an intern resident, you know, working in the emergency room and trauma, et cetera. I used to have

A lot of bad days. Yeah. But you've learned how to control your mind. Yeah. It's not what happens to you. It's how you react to what is happening around you. Ultimately, it's your response to what's happening. And every adversity, there's a challenge. Every challenge, there's an opportunity. That's what we call good luck. Yes. Yes. And hopefully we'll have good luck.

To go back to your book, you say evolution is a never-ending story. Embrace it. I will be honest with you. Sometimes I don't want to evolve. I've done so much personal work. There are times when I'm like, oh, I'm just so tired of evolving. And I think probably some of our listeners can relate to that. Actually, spiritual traditions...

You don't need to try to evolve. You just have to rest in awareness of being and then evolution happens spontaneously. Yeah, I found such comfort as a young person. I was influenced by my parents' religion and what they practiced. And then I really struggled for many years to find out what really rung true for me. And I think that

It wasn't until I was able to put my faith in spirituality, in just that broad even term spirituality, that I found so much comfort. Yeah, because by and large, institutional religions are very judgmental. Authentic spirituality is more about expanding your awareness and

and harnessing things like intuition and imagination and insight and freedom and going beyond your conditioning, the religious background that you have. I mean, you've got to find your own path, I think, at the end of the day. When all this ends, when this body and mind has served its purpose, what do you think happens to us?

If you understand your true identity, which is not your body, your body is a changing experience. So you say, I had a five-year-old body, I had a 10-year-old body,

Every moment you're changing your body the same way you change your clothes. In fact, even faster. You don't have a five-year-old body. You don't have a teenage body. You have this body. And this will not be this all the way to dusty death. So the body is not a noun. It's not a thing. It's a process. It's a verb.

So also the mind. It's not a thing. It's a process. You know, you don't have the same mind as you had yesterday. So what is it that never changes? And that that never changes is called I.

You know, I was in love. I was happy. I was sad. I made a lot of money. I won the lottery. I went bankrupt. The only thing that doesn't change is I. Okay? So that means I is not in time.

The body is in time, the mind is in time, but I is not in time. Where is it if it's not in time? It's beyond time. It's spaceless, it's timeless, it's eternal, it's infinite, it's formless, it's borderless, and it is what recycles time.

as the evolutionary process of consciousness. So right now, your body is your soul or your consciousness recycling as what I see right now. But

even by the time you hear my words, your body has changed. By the time you hear my words, they don't exist. So nothing that you experience is actually real because it's like a passing show. It's like a movie. And when you perceive something, it's like taking a photo, like a

snapshot, like a selfie. So what is real is that which never changes and that's neither mental nor physical.

non-material, and it's eternal. So, you know, that is what recycles and also evolves. So you as consciousness, as a soul, are recycling and evolving. Everything in the universe is recycling and evolving. Information, energy, matter, and that...

recycling and evolving is happening in your consciousness, your soul.

What about our body? There's no such thing. Which body are you talking about? Your five-year-old body or your embryo or your teenage body. There's no such thing as a body. It's a perceptual activity in consciousness. You see, we are, as a society and a culture, we are embedded in the superstition of what we call

the physical world, when there is no physical world. The physical world is a projection of your consciousness and that includes your body.

Sometimes I think about that. Like I see things the way my eyeballs see them, like the sunset or my daughter's face. Your eyeballs don't see anything. They're like a microscope or a telescope. You see things. Okay. The eye is an instrument of observation, visual observation, just like the ears are an instrument for sound. But there is no sound in your ears and there is no image of the world in your eyes.

There's nothing. It's just an instrument. Think of it like a microscope. And you are the one who's seeing, not the eyes. Me? Me, which is not in time, which is eternal, which is outside time. Wow. Okay. Yes. I am picking up what you're putting down. Okay. It's...

It's a big message, I think, for our listeners, but it's really important that they have access to this. And now, so incredible, they can talk to you just as I'm talking to you right now by using... This is blowing my mind. I think we sent you a QR code. If you can show it to your audience, they don't even have to go to... They can just download the QR code and directly ask any question. This is today's technology.

I mean, did you ever see this coming in your lifetime? No. No. No. Just like if you were in 1885 and you showed up in 2005, 20 years later, you wouldn't recognize the world. Yes, sort of like the movie Back to the Future. Yeah, or The Matrix. Or The Matrix, yes.

I want to ask you a question. Is gossiping, watching reality TV, scrolling on TikTok, are those things harmful for our mental and physical health? Yeah, of course. They seem harmless. Anything that causes inflammation or distress...

It's harmful. Okay. But then some people like to go to horror movies and they like to get the eebie-jeebies. That's their choice. It's all about choice. It's all about choice. Yeah. And we need to choose ourselves. Yeah, we choose. Yeah. I love the synchronicity of all of this. What do you hope people remember you by from your time here?

Well, as maybe a catalyst, think of me as an enzyme that facilitates biological activity. Now I'm forever going to just think of you as an enzyme. Yeah. A really great enzyme. Yeah. Before I let you go, Dr. Chopra, I asked all of my guests, what was your last I choose me moment?

You know, I don't think of me as a person. So whatever I do is ultimately for the bigger good.

Me, not the ego me, which is squeezed into the volume of body in the span of a lifetime. I don't think of me as a person. I think of me as a consciousness that's connected to every being. So whatever I do comes from a place of empathy, compassion, love, whatever. So for me, every moment is special.

What about like taking care of your physical, well, you're going to tell me the body isn't real, but what about taking- Yeah, but you can upgrade the illusion, no question about it. By sleeping well, eating well, being happy, having good relationships, all of that, it upgrades the experience of this reality, which is not real, but you can upgrade the movie. Yes.

So the ultimate I choose me moment is not about choosing ourselves. It's how do I change the projection? I don't like the movie, so how do I create a better movie? Because your life is a movie. Right. Oh my goodness. These are all such great things to think about. And I just applaud you endlessly for tapping into this world of AI and helping us to embrace it.

Just as we embrace our changes and how we grow. So thank you for this book, for all of your, all of your wisdom and sharing that, continuing to share that with the world. Yes. Thank you very much for having me. Yes. So happy to have you. Thank you. Great to meet you. Nice to meet you too.

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