I Choose...Making The Time For Myself with Heather Dubrow
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Hey, this is Joel and Matt from the How to Money podcast. My kids, Matt, they've got a few long weekends coming up, so I'm looking forward to taking a few trips with my family during those breaks. Nice. Yeah. And while you're away, you can host your house on Airbnb. Thanks to the Airbnb co-host feature, hosting is now easier than ever. You can access a network of high quality local co-hosts who can help you get your home ready for guests. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.

Don't miss Real Life Amigos, Wilmer Valderrama and Freddy Rodriguez in their new podcast, Dos Amigos, where they have candid conversations with special guests about anything and everything. Join them in Wilmer's speakeasy for genuine moments, laughter, and a toast to good times. Remember hearing this commercial. Are you between the ages of 14 and 16 years old? Do you think you got it take to be a TV personality at commercials and Saturday morning shows? Listen to Dos Amigos on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey, everybody. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. My guest today is...

much incredible. A reality TV icon, an entrepreneur, an actress, a mother, a wife, a voice of reason to so many, and an advocate for the LGBTQ plus community, which is amazing. You know her from multiple seasons of The Real Housewives of Orange County and her podcast Let's Talk with Heather Dubrow.

Here she is in front of me. Let's talk, Heather Dubrow. I just did your podcast. Yes. It was amazing. Loved having you. If you guys didn't hear it, go over and check it out on Let's Talk with Heather Dubrow. But do you say Dubrow? Dubrow. Do you say Dubrow? Let's get it right. This is why it took me – when Terry and I got married, it took me like 15 years to change my name because my name was Heather Paige Kent. Heather Paige Kent.

It's a good name. That's a great name. And it's not even a stage name. That was my name. Heather Page Kent. Heather Page Kent. And me, Terry, and we get married. And it looks, the way it's spelled, it looks like Dubrow, like eyebrow. And I hated that. So I said to him, I go, if you change the spelling to like D-U-B-R-E-A-U-X, like Dubrow. So fancy. I'm totally in. Yeah. He would. No. So it took me like 15 years then I finally changed it. Well, I love it.

I like it. Dubrow. Dubrow. Yes. Like, hey, bro. Hey, bro. Yeah, the spelling really does throw me every time I look at it. It's not good. That's okay. We were talking so much and we had such a great conversation, so definitely check that out. But I realized, I came here thinking, oh, I'm so excited to meet her, talk to her, get to know her. It's not the first time that we've met. So embarrassing for me. Correct. Correct.

It was a long time ago, though. But I appreciate that you're not mad at me about it. No. And then you're like, you'll just tell me and remind me. And now I remember. Yes. We go way back. Yeah, way back. Like almost 20 years. It's so good. It's so good. And I did learn. I feel much closer to you now because we never sat down and had these kind of chats. No, definitely not. These amazing talks. So I'm really excited to be able to do that today with you and getting to know you. I love...

The woman that you are, you're inspirational. What you're doing with your platform and as an entrepreneur, the things that you're doing, you have your own fashion line.

You've done amazing stuff with your husband too, which I love. I've always wanted to do work with my husband. He's in the restaurant world, so it's not really... Yeah, so you don't have anything. Well, it's funny. I thought I married a doctor. I didn't realize I married like a TV star. That wasn't on my bingo card. But I created... So he's my Frankenstein, I say sometimes. But you know...

His show, Botched, was really born out of housewives. Really? Well, I mean, yeah, kind of, because he and Paul Nassif, whose ex-wife was on Beverly Hills Housewives, and we've known them since before they got married, a long time. So, you know, that's really how that was born. So what that platform has done for us is...

You know, huge. Yeah. Can I say something and you won't get mad at me? No. I've never watched Real Housewives of Anywhere. Yeah, don't. It's embarrassing to say at this point because it's a monster. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. And I have such profound appreciation for it because I understand what it takes. And the women – so many of the women on it are just badass, amazing women. Yeah.

But I've never watched an episode. Yeah. So I watched like the first season of Beverly Hills because we knew Paul and Adrienne. And I was like, oh, like, you know, let's watch them. So we watched like the first season, I think, and that was it. And then when I joined Orange County, I had never seen Orange County. I knew nothing about it. Was that the second iteration of it? It was the first. Okay.

Orange County is the original. It is? Yeah. This will be the 19th season of Orange County Housewives. Wow. Is that crazy? And I started the show when my youngest was nine months old and he just turned 14. You were a completely different person when you started the show. Completely different. But I was on it and then I left and then I came back. Okay.

Why did you leave? I left because it had just changed. And my kids were at an age where, you know, it was like sort of an awkward stage. Just the universe. I've become really good at listening to the universe when they're telling me yes or no. Because when I haven't listened, it hasn't gone well. And it was really time to go. So I left. And I left for four seasons. But with the pandemic, it turned into five years. Wow.

So when I went back to the show, it was literally 10 years from the date I joined, which was, yes, a decade later, completely different person. But I came back to the show because I really thought...

I could use the platform to start conversations in other people's families. Because we have four kids, they're different genders, different sexualities and all the things. And I got so many messages from kids and parents, some really wonderful and some so tragic of things that had happened in their families. And I thought, okay, if we just put our incredibly normal family, people have something to model. They have something to look at. Yeah. You just did an interview, I think, with today.com about...

The diversity within your own family. Yeah. And what an impact that has had on so many by you just talking about it. Yeah. And even just being there. So I had a friend in high school that I was friendly with. We weren't like great friends. We were friendly. And we've become very good friends later in life. Nice. And this friend told me that they...

well, they're gay, and they told me that they didn't understand being gay when we were in high school because they didn't have any role models on TV or in movies, nothing to look at. And they told me that they had decided that by the time they were a senior, if things hadn't gotten better for them, they were going to take their own lives. I never would have thought in a million years that this incredibly confident person

that I knew and now know would have ever felt that way. But it's because they just didn't have anything to say, this is who you are. It's okay. It's okay. And so I thought, I don't have to get on a soapbox. I don't have to use my children as storylines. I don't have to tell their stories for them. I don't have to do anything. We just have to be. Be who you are. Be authentic. Yeah. And that helps people. And it does. And I've been able to do things on the show like with

through an event last year on the show for family equality and presented at the GLAAD Awards. This year we're doing something with the Trevor Project. And being able to do that kind of thing and using the platform for that is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard other women say that too, that it's because of the platform that they were able to... Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with using the platform for fame, fortune, whatever floats your boat. That's totally fine. But

Me coming back into this situation, that's what it's been for me. I think that's such a brave choice, but not so much brave because it's just...

Your family. Yeah. And I just, I feel like I've been given these kids for a reason. We were talking before on my podcast, like I didn't, or maybe it was even before we started recording, you know, I started late. I didn't know we'd have four kids. And it's just interesting what life gives you. And then you think why. Tell me about that though. Tell me about when you were an actress full time, that was your jam. You were doing it. You were killing it.

You've been doing a lot of work. And then you had a baby. So I... Tell me about the transition. Yes. So my last show was a show called That's Life. It was on CBS. I starred in the show. And it was like one of the shows you and I were talking about, which is 17 hours on set. You're up at 3.30 in the morning. There's no social life. You're exhausted. And I loved every second of it. Every second. And that show got canceled. Right.

And I was in pilot season and figuring it out. You know, we'd been trying to get pregnant. We had infertility and whatever. And I was like, ah, I need a break after going to the fertility doctor and doing all the things. How old were you? 34. Okay. Right. And so I took a little break and then we were like, fuck it. We have to do IVF. That was the next step that they told us because we had done all these, you know, IUIs and all these other things. So

So I put it off and then finally I go, let's do it. And of course the day I schedule, you know, to have my embryos and my eggs extracted, I think for the IVF, I get a network test. And I literally went to the procedure in the morning, anesthesia, not fun, woke up from the anesthesia, took a few hours at home.

Put on my makeup. Oh, my God. Had a driver because I wasn't going to drive myself. And went to the network test. Did not get the part, I would like to tell you. It's not a great ending. But... But... The great ending is I got pregnant. So... Yeah. That took... And, you know, it's funny because...

Sometimes you don't even know what to wish for, you know? Like, you want the part, I want the baby. But you were really keeping things open. You were like, let's see what happens here. Let's roll the dice. And so I ended up getting pregnant with twins. Yeah. And I got pregnant with the twins and we were living in LA and, you know, the rest is sort of history. I love that you are very honest. You're a very straight shooter. Yeah.

And you have good advice. Like I've already have things that I'm going to go and check out that we talked about. Well, what did we talk about earlier? Not unpacking your suitcase in a hotel room. Yes. Well, you have to be careful of the upholstery because of bed bugs. Yes. Got to watch for the bed bugs. That is just so gross. But it's so gross. But we had bed bugs. A small – this is what happened. We

We had just moved into this house, and I had this beautiful headboard made by a local upholsterer for my daughter, who was three. And it was this pink, beautiful upholstered headboard with diamonds in it. It was just so cute. And it was a local person. And I just said, hey, I bought the fabric. I don't know. That room came together last for some reason. And I guess he made it in his little warehouse. Anyway.

There were bedbugs because my little cute girl with her little chubby cheeks, she'd wake up in the morning and have all these bites on her face. And I was like, what is going on? And then, of course, we're looking it up. I'm looking it up. And if they're in a line, they say it's bedbugs. And now I'm freaking out because if you look to see how you have to get rid of bedbugs, you might as well just burn everything and leave. It's a lot of work. It's a disaster. Mm-hmm.

So I call this company that someone told me to call, and there's a dog that they have come to your house to sniff out the bed bugs. Okay. So I'm like, all right. So I call the place, and I'm expecting like a Doberman, like some big, gnarly, bug-seeking thing. I open the door, and it is, I am not kidding, a poodle. It is a small dog.

Poodle. And the person with the leash. And I'm like, really? It's a poodle? Poodle's got, all right. So they bring the dog in the house and the dog, they bring them upstairs. The dog goes upstairs, immediately goes to the headboard, starts sniffing around. They take the headboard out. They take it out to their truck. They slice it open and there's bed bugs. So now they take the dog back up to the room and the dog doesn't find anything.

Because I'm like, do I take the mattress out? Did you call the guy? What happened? No, I just never used him again. I would think you would have at least called him and been like, but. I think he knows he has bedbugs. How does he not know he's infested with bedbugs? It was so gross. It was so disgusting. That's bad. Bedbugs are disgusting. I had to get her a new headboard, but I did.

GLP-1 injections have helped many people lose weight, but they can be costly and out of reach for some. That's where Henry Meds makes a difference. Even if you don't have health insurance, you can save over $1,000 a month with no hidden fees. Henry Meds offers affordable compounded GLP-1 treatments from licensed U.S. pharmacies, and their team of providers is with you every step of the way. Take control of your weight management journey. Visit HenryMeds.com.

This is it.

Your moment. This is your time to make your comeback with Purdue Global. When you come back with a Purdue Global degree, you create opportunity for yourself, your family, and your future. It's a degree you can be proud of, a degree that employers will trust and respect. Purdue Global offers working adults like you over 175 flexible degree programs to meet your specific career goal.

goals. These include associate, bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees and certificates. Purdue Global degree programs range from nursing to business to communication and more. Whatever your interests, we have the degree that will move you forward.

You have the knowledge. You have the experience. Now it's time to get credit for the work you've done and earn the recognition you deserve with Purdue Global, Purdue's online university for working adults. You know you're worth it. We do too. So don't wait another second to get the degree that will take your career to the next level. Start your comeback today at purdueglobal.edu.

Hi, this is Joel and Matt from the How to Money podcast. Yeah, Matt, this month, my kids, they've got a longer break from school coming up and I want to take them on a trip somewhere while they've got the time off. Do you have any recommendations? Well, I love checking out national parks personally. And Joel, I know that you and the family love hiking together, spending some quality time outdoors as well. You could always check out Yosemite. That's like one of my absolute favorite places on earth, starting down there in Curry Village, hiking up out of the valley. Yeah.

Can't beat it. Sounds pretty lovely. That's a good idea. And I'm going to suggest this to my family. I'll let you know what they say. All right. We may not know where we're going yet, but I do know one thing. We'll definitely be checking out the local Airbnbs wherever we end up. It gives us flexibility and incredible options for a place to stay while we're away from home. Plus, while you're away, you could host guests in your home on Airbnb. It's

Easy and a great way to earn additional income. And now hosting is easier than ever with Airbnb's co-host feature. Airbnb gives you access to a network of high quality local co-hosts who can help take care of your home and your guests when you're not there. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.

Don't miss Real Life Amigos, Wilmer Valderrama and Freddy Rodriguez in their new podcast, Dos Amigos. Each episode is a party where the good friends get real with each other about life, careers and everything about everything. And you're right there with them. When I discovered acting, I've just found my calling. But a lot of that was just because I wasn't I wasn't good at anything else, you know.

Join the two amigos straight from Wilmer's speakeasy for a toast to good times. Don't be surprised if some special guests and good friends drop in. And always expect lively, candid discussions, plenty of genuine moments, and lots of laughter. I remember hearing this commercial. Are you between the ages of 16? What is it?

Oh, man. Are you between the ages of 14 and 16 years old? Do you think you got what it takes to be a TV personality and commercials and, you know, morning, Saturday morning shows? Listen to Dos Amigos as part of the My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to ask you a question. What is the best advice you've ever been given? Oh, that's a big question, I know. That is a big question. Um...

The best advice. I mean, there's different categories of advice. I think one thing that sticks out in my mind is that my mom told me, well, two things. My mom told me two things that I thought were very, very good. One was be careful who you date because you can fall in love with anyone.

Okay. Good advice. Which really is good advice because you know what? Like all humans have beautiful qualities. And yeah, you can find all the good qualities and overlook. Yes. And when you, if you have a life path, you have things in your life that are important to you. And like, all right, just off the top of my head, you want children, right? And you meet someone who absolutely does not want children. You should not date that person. That is a red flag.

Because you will never convince this person to have children. It'll never be harmonious. No. No. You can't do that. So be careful who you date. Okay. Good. Good. That's number one. Writing that down. And then number two, and this one I think is very, very important, is to have friends of all ages and all stages of life.

Because, you know, when you're younger, obviously, you're friends with people your age. It's developmental when you're super young. It's – I can't think of the word I'm trying to look for right now. But it's like, you know, you're in a certain grade of school when you're older or a certain, you know, part of your life where you're in college. So you're friends with college people. Or you've just, you know, you're a graduate. And your bubble can get really too small. Yeah. And it's funny because I remember –

when I was younger saying to my mom, oh my gosh, your friends, that couple that you're friends with, they're so old. Like, why are you friends with them? And she said to me, no, it's so good. They have a different perspective. And so I have always made sure I have people in my life that are older and

And that are younger. I was, you know, recently when we moved back to L.A., you know, we were talking about going back to scripted work, you and I recently, which I really do want to do on my own terms, as we both discussed and what makes sense for my life now. So I joined the Groundlings and I auditioned for the Groundlings, got in, started taking class at the Groundlings. Oh, my gosh. You're so brave. You should do it with me.

Wow, I can't even answer that. No, you should come take a class. Okay, wait, just tell me what it's like first. It's... All right, wait, I'm going to get back to that in a second. But here's what I'm going to tell you. I took the growlings, and I did it with a girlfriend of mine, also an actress. You might know her, too. But my friend Dina, who we've been friends for a million years, and not only do we have the best time...

It was all... I call them kids. They were all the kids in the class. They were kids. And they were great. And we'd go out with them. We had dinners with them. We'd go to drinks. We'd be like... We were joking, like, smoking a cigarette. Like, we don't smoke anymore. But, you know, like, oh, darlings. In the old days, you were the...

people. We were the old people. They were the young people. But you know what? I didn't feel any different than they were at all. And it was unbelievably fun. And honestly, I ended up doing this little musical thing with one of them because she wrote the show. It was just such fun.

An interesting, fun, yeah, really bold, fucking scary thing to do. But I'm sort of in that mindset. I really encourage you to do this too. Like I just started taking, so I started as a musical theater person. I was a singer. I had a 14 piece big band that I toured with for years. I'm taking vocal lessons again. It's terrifying.

I love this, though. It's a whole new – you have the time now. You are at the phase. I'm making the time. Almost an empty nester. But I'm making the time. You're so busy. I'm so busy. We still have the kids, even if they're not at home. But do you feel like you're, like, consciously choosing what it is that you want to take the time and do?

like making those brave decisions and choices. Ish, I'm seeing what fits. So, okay. So I like, like I can't take the next Groundlings class right now because I have other obligations, right? So I'm putting it off until May.

And I'll do the next one in May. But I know in my mind I would do that. So I'm like, okay, what day do I have free and what do I need to prioritize here? Okay. And then I'll try something. And if it fills me and feeds my soul, I do it. And if it doesn't, I'm out. Yeah. You don't need to waste time because you know. No. Because you don't need to waste time. And didn't you feel like when you hit 50, it was like, I got nothing to lose. Right.

It's halftime. Yep. Got to gather the troops, put them in the locker room and go, okay, what did we do well last quarter, last half? What didn't we do well? We got to move forward and

Do something different. Yeah. There's no more time to like stress about it or feel upset about things that didn't go well. Right. You just keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward. I'm not always good at this, but I'm really trying to consciously make sure that every day, like sometimes, you know when you wake up in the morning and you go, oh, what do I have to do today? I go, what do I get to do today? There you go.

I get to do today? That's great. And even if it sucks, I'm trying to find like something within the day. Like I'm obsessed with Pilates right now. Oh, that's a good obsession. Yeah. I used to be into running and all these things, but my body can't handle it anymore. So you know what? That's okay. I've realized that there's different ages and stages for fitness also. Right. And now I'm obsessed with Pilates. I love it. And I love this place I go and it makes me happy when I'm there. So even if that's the only great thing, that's how I'm going to start my day. That

It's hard to say, I get to go to the gym today. If you hate it. But you could say, no, I get it. I used to hate it too. I had a switch with it a number of years ago because I never was a workout person. I never liked it. Same, same. Had to hate, hate, hate. But then when like Orange Theory became a thing. Mm-hmm.

I started going there and I really developed a love for like running and the HIIT thing and whatever. But my body started breaking down from that kind of exercise after a decade of that. So now I'm into this. And this is great for your body. And it's, you know what? You get to lie down for half the class. I really highly recommend that. I know. It's dark. It's dark. I like that too. There's this like hot mat class that I go to. It's so good. I thought you were going to say something about the instructor, but okay. Oh, yeah.

The mat. No. The hot mat. There's no hot instructor in the class. I mean, they're – It's usually women, which I love. They are women. They are hot. But like – Yeah. We're not looking for that. No. So anyway, so yeah. So – but even if it's not that, you have to build something into your day. Yeah.

Even if it's your like frothed coffee that you love, that you sit and you scroll or you – whatever it is that you – that guilty pleasure thing that you do, you got to focus on that thing. Yep. That's so true. Have you ever given advice to someone who didn't want it? Like –

And that backfired for you? Oh, I'm sure a million times that's happened. I really – What do you mean you're sure? Because I'm so outspoken. Yeah. You know, and when I was younger, I'm sure I felt like, if I'm perfectly honest, that I knew better than someone else did and had the best advice. I think I've become much better at listening. Oh.

As I've gotten older, reading the room maybe. And reading the room and not being so verbose about things. Sometimes, you know, it's okay to not tell everyone exactly what you think. But if someone asks for my opinion, I'm happy to give it. Right. There's a difference. There is a difference. Yes. If someone comes to you and asks for advice, they want...

your expertise on something. They want your perspective. Yeah, and if they don't like it, then they really didn't want it in the first place, and then that's fucked. Right. Well, and also if they don't take your advice, like they don't... Well, they don't have to take it. They don't have to take it, but it'd be better for them if they did. Right. But I mean, don't you see that with your kids? Sometimes like my 18-year-old will come to me and be like, mom, and then ask me this whole thing, and I'll listen, and I'll think to myself, what does she want me to say here? But then I'll give my honest advice,

And then she'll say, yeah, no, no. Right. But what I do notice is it will still make her think. It'll be in the back of her mind. Yes. And it might inform what she ends up doing. Of course. Of course. But they'll never admit it. No. No.

GLP-1 injections have helped many people lose weight, but they can be costly and out of reach for some. That's where Henry Meds makes a difference. Even if you don't have health insurance, you can save over $1,000 a month with no hidden fees. Henry Meds offers affordable compounded GLP-1 treatments from licensed U.S. pharmacies, and their team of providers is with you every step of the way. Take control of your weight management journey. Visit HenryMeds.com.

This is it.

Your moment. This is your time to make your comeback with Purdue Global. When you come back with a Purdue Global degree, you create opportunity for yourself, your family, and your future. It's a degree you can be proud of, a degree that employers will trust and respect. Purdue Global offers working adults like you over 175 flexible degree programs to meet your specific career goals.

goals. These include associate, bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees and certificates. Purdue Global degree programs range from nursing to business to communication and more. Whatever your interest, we have the degree that will move you forward. You

You have the knowledge. You have the experience. Now it's time to get credit for the work you've done and earn the recognition you deserve with Purdue Global, Purdue's online university for working adults. You know you're worth it. We do too. So don't wait another second to get the degree that will take your career to the next level. Start your comeback today at purdueglobal.edu.

Hi, this is Joel and Matt from the How to Money podcast. Yeah, Matt, this month, my kids, they've got a longer break from school coming up and I want to take them on a trip somewhere while they've got the time off. Do you have any recommendations? Well, I love checking out national parks personally. And Joel, I know that you and the family love hiking together, spending some quality time outdoors as well. You could always check out Yosemite. That's like one of my absolute favorite places on earth, starting down there in Curry Village, hiking up out of the valley. Yeah.

Can't beat it. Sounds pretty lovely. That's a good idea. And I'm going to suggest this to my family. I'll let you know what they say. All right. We may not know where we're going yet, but I do know one thing. We'll definitely be checking out the local Airbnbs wherever we end up. It gives us flexibility and incredible options for a place to stay while we're away from home. Plus, while you're away, you could host guests in your home on Airbnb. It's

Easy and a great way to earn additional income. And now hosting is easier than ever with Airbnb's co-host feature. Airbnb gives you access to a network of high quality local co-hosts who can help take care of your home and your guests when you're not there. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.

Don't miss Real Life Amigos, Wilmer Valderrama and Freddy Rodriguez in their new podcast, Dos Amigos. Each episode is a party where the good friends get real with each other about life, careers and everything about everything. And you're right there with them. When I discovered acting, I've just found my calling. But a lot of that was just because I wasn't I wasn't good at anything else, you know.

Join the two amigos straight from Wilmer's Speakeasy for toasted good times. Don't be surprised if some special guests and good friends drop in. And always expect lively, candid discussions, plenty of genuine moments, and lots of laughter. I remember hearing this commercial. Are you between the ages of 16? What is it?

Oh, man. Are you between the ages of 14 and 16 years old? Do you think you got what it takes to be a TV personality and commercials and, you know, morning, Saturday morning shows? Listen to Dos Amigos as part of the My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What about this marriage of yours? You've been married to the same man. I'm sorry. Because that's not the case for me. The same man. Over every day. Every day. How do you do it? Like, I love change. And I feel like I've changed my husbands a few times. And that's been really fun. But how do you stay with the same man for 24? We're together 28 years. 28? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah, we've been married 25 and a half. Yeah, marriage is hard work. I will say, you know, we met when I was 27, and he was 38. So I wasn't 22. We got married when I was 30. Again, wasn't 22. Now...

I can give you a million reasons why I think we're together. I think the honest to God truth is marriage is a leap of faith and you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into until you get into it. Nope. Yep. At all. You have the best of intentions and that's why if there are red flags before you're walking down the aisle, do not do it. No. I know. It's hard to do though. Sometimes there's a few little red flags. Maybe they're pink.

I know, but that's why I hate when I hear people get married fast. And I don't understand why people rush into marriage. Yeah.

And the truth is when you have a child with someone, as you know, that's the forever moment. Marriage is not necessarily forever. I don't understand why people like they meet, they want to rush, they want to get into it. I will tell you that there are certain moments in a relationship you don't get back. You don't get back the courtship period and you don't get back the engaged period because it's once you're married, then you're just married.

Then it's just ticking of time. So I highly recommend that people enjoy all of those things. And again, if there are red flags, that means it is not time to get married. You got to figure that out. Yeah. Like dig into those red flags before you... I mean, like I didn't have those red flags. Of course, when you're dating someone, yeah, people, you know, they irk you. You got to figure out if you can live together. You know, all those normal sort of things. But...

But, you know, like we were talking about before, if someone is saying they don't want to have kids, you want to have kids. They don't like to travel. You like to travel. You're very active. They're a couch potato. They like to have guys nights or guys weekends every weekend. You know, it depends on what's important to you. Some people, like I can't remember who I just read, an actress, she just got married last year. I have to think of her name. And she and her husband live in separate states.

And they love it. And it's perfect for them. They both have their own careers. He's maybe...

I don't remember what he does. But anyway, they both have very significant careers and they're great. And when they come together, they have the best time and they love each other, but this is how their relationship works. So it's not me to judge what will or will not work for someone else. But for me, like I could not have been with someone that didn't want kids. That would have been a hard no, even though, again, I wasn't someone that was like,

I've been trying to have children my whole life, but I just felt like it was something I would do. At 27, you said, did you know what your non-negotiables were? No. Not at all. That's why I'm saying it was a leap of faith. But I think that- Wait, wait, wait. How long did you wait until you got married? So we dated for a year and a half, got engaged, and then we were engaged for a year and then got married. But remember, he's 10 and a half years older. So when we got married, he was 40. Okay.

So it was like it felt okay. I think if he had been my age or a couple years older, we probably would have waited longer to get married. Yeah. That's what I think. You learn a lot about it.

I did all the things you said we shouldn't be doing. I got engaged three months into a relationship and married six months into that. Yeah, and you were young. And when you're that age, it's... Well, I wasn't that young. How old were you? This was in my early 40s. This was my current. Oh, this wasn't your first. But you're still together. I told you I like change. He doesn't like when I say that because he gets a little nervous. But we're still together. How long are you together? 10 years. That's a long time. It's funny. I interviewed...

You want to know what's crazy? I haven't had alcohol in two weeks. Wait, do you have brain fog right now? And I think it's given me brain fog not drinking. No, no. Norm Lear. Norman Lear. Famous Norman Lear. Adorable. Who passed away last year. Anyway, Norman Lear, who you know. Who? I don't know. Norman Lear. He created a million television shows, All in the Family, like a million TV shows. Okay, great. Love him.

Like the king of the sitcom. And he lived to like 101. Anyway, he was on the show and we were talking and he was talking about his failed marriages. And he was talking about one wife in particular. And I go, how long were you married? And he said, 30 years. I go, that is not a failed marriage.

30 years is a huge, long life together. When marriage was created, people didn't live past like 18. I don't think it was intended for people to be together for 50, 60 years. It is, you know, not the norm for people to be together. What do you get divorced after 30, like...

Why did it take 30 years? They call it a gray divorce. It's very... I just ran into someone last night who was telling me that his parents are getting divorced after 30 years and they're in their 70s and it's called... It's a new thing. They call it a gray divorce, like gray hair. Uh-huh. That older people, like they just... They hit a wall. And they're like... I'm done. Yeah. How many years I got left? Bye-bye. Not doing with you. I love them. Isn't that so funny? I feel bad for your husband now. I'm worried. I'm worried.

But I really do like this gray divorce thing. Yeah. It's always on the table, you know. I got a few years, but... We'll never go gray, let's be honest. That's not really in our future. No, I'm going to go white like Betty. No, you're a gorgeous blonde. Just keep it. Stop. So we... I think it's a leap of faith. I think that we've been lucky and we have really done a good job of...

upping our game decade by decade as it's been needed. And that's been so good for us because neither of us are like therapy kids. Like we didn't go to therapy. Our parents didn't really talk to us. We're like flying by the seat of our pants here. But I think both kind of, you know, reasonably intelligent people and him for sure, highly trained surgeon. And

And we separately have come to each other at different times and been like, look, what are we doing with this? This isn't working. Like, you know, what's going on with you? What's going on with us? It's really important to date your spouse. Continue that. Continue to date. Terry believes in going to sleep mad.

Some people don't. Some people want to fix it before you go to bed. What does he explain why he thinks that's a good idea? Because he thinks the end of the night's a bad idea, and he's right. Right. You're tired. Yeah, and especially if you've had drinks or anything. It's just, it's not the time. Yeah, let's just go to sleep. Daytime is better. You know, learn how to fight.

healthy. Yeah. And you have to learn each other's fighting styles and you have to meet in the middle somewhere. Yeah. You learn so much about a person as the years tick. You think you know everything and then you learn something new. Yeah. But I have to say like we're best friends. We do, you know, we've done, we've written three books together. We, you know, it's our hobby. We've done TV shows together. We like- I love that about you guys. We have product line together. We sell supplements and- You're like relationship goals. Have you ever done like a, like

Like a couple's retreat? No. No, like saying, like, bring back the fire? No. Nothing like that? Like to host one or go to one? Go to one. No. Would you? You know what we do? We just go to Paris. Oh. Yeah. Have some time together. Yeah. We're really good, really, really good at dating each other. And I have to say, you know, I, because I wasn't working for a bunch of years when the kids were little. Right.

There was like, I mean, I did a couple of pilots, that kind of thing, but I wasn't like steadily working. There was like a seven, eight year period of time where I was just

And he, you know, is a surgeon and he was at work and like busy, busy. So except for that period of time, we've been really good at taking time together. And because he wasn't that, he's not a baby person. So he's never, I don't want to make him sound like a bad dad. Like he's great now that they're older. He goes to bed mad. He doesn't like babies. He hates children. But

But now that the kids are older, like he's the best and he has the best relationship with our kids and he's such a good connected dad of this age and up that it's been so amazing. But I will tell you, he loves me, and I say this very confidently, more than anyone in the world. And he would choose me over the children. Like if he stops loving me, he's not capable of loving because that's him. Right.

That's got to feel like such a good place to be. It's great. I mean… He has your back. He does. No matter what. You give a lot of advice. Who do you go to for advice? Him. Him. I go to him. I'll talk to my kids sometimes, depending on what the situation is. For sure.

I have some trusted people, girlfriends in my life, depending on what the situation is, that I feel really comfortable. I got burned a number of years ago. Look, relationships, just like anything, you know, they go up and down.

Terry and I don't fight about real things, I have to say. We'll bicker like most people bicker. But there's been very few big, heavy things. But there was one once years ago. We were kind of fighting about being on a reality show because it took its toll, as you know. And we had to have a come to Jesus moment where I said to him, look, we either figure out how to do this or we get off this show because this is not working. Right.

And during that period of time, I talked to who I thought was a girlfriend of mine about this. And she repeated things I said and twisted them and, you know, started a narrative out there. And I was just like, it really, that broke me. And it was very hard for me to open up to people about things like that. So I keep that tight. Tight. I think that's the best way to keep it. Yeah, absolutely. My husband is...

like my best friend and I go to him and he gives me a different perspective than I have. He keeps me grounded and

He calls me out just yesterday. Yeah. And it's hard to hear that stuff. Mine does too. It's so annoying. And it's really annoying when they're right. They're always right. That's the thing. Terry's always right. It's so annoying. Yeah. That's what they say about marriage though. It's like holding that mirror up. They're the mirror. But then if you don't want to know, don't ask. He'll say that to me too. But then I'll say to him, and this is how we teach each other, right? I'll go, listen.

right now, I don't want you to fix it. I don't want to hear what you have to say. Just let me vent. I need to cry. I need to vent. And then you could do that. Just give me a minute. Yeah, that's good communication. Yes, you got to tell them they're not mind readers. If you expect them to be mind readers, you both lose. Very, very true. I think that it's important to maintain that

independence from your husband, even when you are as close. I think it sounds like you're as close to your husband. I'm very close to my husband. You can't be codependent. No. No. I love time away from him. Yeah. But I feel like that happens with us. It happens sort of naturally because of the hours. Jobs, yeah. Because of the jobs. It just kind of happens. But I have to say, I mean...

I hate to say these things out loud because you know when you talk nicely about your relationship, it always goes to shit. You always fight that night if you say so. I'm going to just poo, poo, poo. Knock on the wood. Yeah. But all I have to say is like we'll go away together like we were just in Paris dropping off my daughter at school. And we spent some time with her, dropped her at school. She's there for the semester. And when we dropped her, we stayed a few extra days because we love Paris. It's like our happy place. So we stayed there a few days. And we came home. We fly home.

We get home and we go out to dinner together. Wow. Like we just... You like to be together. We just like to be together. I like that. Yeah. I'm kind of the same way. Yeah. Wait, you just said your daughter is doing a semester in Paris. I had my daughter do a semester in London and I was...

was very difficult for me. Why? I don't know. It just felt so far away. Well, so my son, so they're twins. So he, my son went to Italy first semester and she's in Paris now. And at first I was like, could you coordinate? Be gone at the same time. Right. But then I realized I got to go to Europe all year and I love it. And, and you know, again, like finding joy in things, like we were talking about finding time for classes or finding time for this. I will go to Europe for the

This is not relatable. I'm just going to say this before. This is not a relatable thing what I'm about to say. I apologize in advance. We're ready for it. But I will go to Paris for the weekend if I have time. Just for shits and giggles. Just for fun. If there's a thing, like my son was done with his tour in Italy and it was my youngest son's birthday. And I didn't really concept, think about the fact we were going for a weekend, but I took them skiing in the French Alps.

for four days. And it was like a long weekend. And it was a long way to go, but it was so great. And the two of them bonding and I went skiing for the first time and it was fantastic. And so now my daughter's there and she's like, I'm lonely. I miss you. I'm homesick. I go, I may have a weekend. That

That's the thing because you and I are both homemakers. Yes. We want our homes to be the sanctuary for our family. It sounds like we're very similar in that respect. What is it like when your kids, they don't want to leave? It's so good where they're at home. Yeah. I hear kids want to stay till they're like 30 now. Honestly, I'm okay with it. I don't know. I want them to be close but not that close.

Yeah. Well, my daughter, yeah. Two of my girls are still at home and our house is small and the bedrooms are all right together. Yeah. There's no privacy at all. And they're cool with that? I did that on purpose because they were teenagers when I bought the house. Understood. And I wanted to keep them close. You wanted to hear what was going on. Now I'm kind of like, I'm in a Royal Boat Room. Yeah, right. But I want you, I like that you're still here. You like change. It might be time to move. No, don't. I have thought about it. Definitely thought about it.

I love our conversation. Yeah, me too. This is so good. I have to ask you one last question. Heather Dubrow, what was your last I choose me moment? I mean, Swiss Alps ain't bad. Yeah, but that's not it. I really think it's going back to vocal lessons.

And I would say just in the category, I signed up for like a bunch of things, a bunch of classes where I'm really choosing me. It's a really hard thing. I wonder if you feel the same way where, you know, you want to put things out into the world to make them real and put, you know, manifest them. But there's also a school of thought where don't,

tell people what you're doing, show them when it happens. And I feel like when I was younger, it was like, oh, I don't want to tell anyone because it'll jinx it or it'll this or it'll that. Kind of over that. Like, I don't really care. Like, I loved when I told you that I'm doing this class, you were a little horrified and kind of excited at the same time, right? That's how I was. And I feel like I'm choosing me by...

Pushing myself out of my comfort zone and into these areas because, again, we have nothing to lose. And by the way— And you don't give a fuck what anybody thinks. I don't give a fuck. And if I could just toot our horn, you and me collectively, like, we look really good. Yeah.

And we're talented and we're thriving and our audience watches TV, so why not? Yeah. I mean, you said it. It's time to go back. I love that. Right. So this is a first step. And what's also really great is, remember when you're younger and you're like, oh shit, if something doesn't happen in the next six months, I'm done. Nothing.

will ever happen again. Where will I be? I'll shrivel up and die. Now you're like, I'm already old. It doesn't matter. Three months, six months, next year, whatever. Who cares? If it happens, it happens. It's fine. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, you're just in a great place in your life. I can feel it. Yeah. So are you. It's so good. I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I loved meeting you. I mean, well, now you really know me. Now I know you so well. I love it.

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