I Choose...To Do My Best with Busy Philipps
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and Macy's is celebrating it in a really cool way. When you shop at macys.com or in-store, you can choose to donate to APIA Scholars. Your donation will help get students the resources they need to become innovative, authentic leaders. Shop and donate online at macys.com slash purpose. Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month goes on all month long.

Hey there, Joel here with my buddy Matt from How to Money. Matt, summer's right around the corner. I know you got that travel bug. What adventures do you have planned? Oh man, you are going to love this. We're planning this epic road trip up the East Coast with the entire family. Just think lighthouses in Maine, monuments in DC, plus everything in between. That's amazing.

I'm jealous, but I'm thinking about stowing away in your luggage. But wait a second. How are all six of you going to take this road trip? Okay, so initially we were thinking about taking an RV, but I found some really awesome Airbnbs along our route, places with something for everyone. And what I really love is that with Airbnbs, we can always start our days with like a

A good breakfast at home? Like, it's our home away from home, and I love that routine. I don't know if you've ever tried getting a family of six out the door, let alone trying to find some breakfast in the middle of a city that you're not super familiar with. It's a challenge, plus it's a budget killer. Yeah, that's true. Sounds like chaos, to be honest. And you know, that's actually what makes hosting on Airbnb so special, right? You're giving travelers a chance to really live like a local. They even have the co-host feature, which gives you access to a network of high-quality local co-hosts

We love L.A. L.A. is so beautiful. It's mind-blowing. From the walk-up windows and rooftop bars to the year-round, oh, I love L.A.

alfresco dining, which is my favorite. Los Angeles is a culinary thrill ride. Sure to leave visitors hungry for more. From exclusive streetwear drops to high-end boutiques, Los Angeles tastemakers offer up a dizzying array of styles in a single city block that gives Los Angeles its own look. Find more ways to love LA at discoverla.com. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland.

Hey everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. So my guest today is brave and bold. She is unapologetically who she is, not to mention she's spunky, which is my favorite kind of lady. You know her from roles in Freaks and Geeks, Dawson's Creek, I Feel Pretty. I happen to love her in Cougar Town opposite Courtney Cox.

Okay.

Okay, I am so happy to have you on the podcast. This is really fun. We've spent some time together now. I know, yes, because I was just on your show. You just did the talk show, yeah. It was a blast. Thank you so much. And I got to know so much about you. Which is crazy. We have so much in common, which is crazy. So much. Like, it keeps happening. As we talk more, we keep finding more. I didn't even know. I mean, I knew...

I knew you were from Arizona because I remember being a kid wanting to be an actor and knowing that you were from Arizona. Like you and David Spade. That was like the two people on television from where I'm from. Yeah. David Spade. And look, and then you ended up in Hollywood. Yeah. Out of Arizona. There must be something in the water there. There's definitely something in the water. I think it's the proximity. I'm not even kidding. Like I feel like,

I don't know if you've, I felt like Phoenix was like a suburb of Los Angeles, kind of, in a weird way. Yeah, you can get there by car. It's so close. Yes. There's no traffic on that highway. No, there's not. Well, now there probably is. You just jet through the desert. Well, yeah. Yeah, you just do it. You just fly. I loved it. Well, I love being there and I love living in the desert.

there's something so settling and grounding about the desert air for me. Yeah, me too. I'm Casey, who's my producer on the talk show, says that I'm like a heat seeking lizard because I will like lay down on hot rocks. It feels so good. I know, but it's so funny. It's like, I don't know. I just, I miss the heat and I miss the warmth. Do you get back there? Do you go? No, I haven't been in a while. You don't have family there or anything. I have a brother, half brother there.

But I haven't seen him in so long. Yeah. It's kind of a great place to vacation. I'm not going to lie. It is. We were just there. Yeah. You got to go hiking there too. It's so lovely. Yeah. Okay. You're just out there. You're challenging the norms. You are sharing deeply personal experiences.

and things that have happened to you and you're standing up for what's right. I'm curious, were you always, even as a kid, someone who wasn't afraid to use her voice or did that come to you later in life? Because you're so outspoken. Yeah. That's one of the things that I really admire about you. Thanks so much. Yeah. I mean, I think that speaking out about issues that are important to me was always something that was...

valued in my household and something that I saw my mom doing and being very vocal about things that she was passionate about and especially values like, you know, the things, equality and especially because, you know, I like grew up in the like 90s, like gay marriage, like even, you know, back then, like, you know, my mom saying, you know, and

being very vocal about that kind of stuff. I don't know. And so then I think it was just, yeah, I was always sort of out there, but then

you go to Hollywood and you want to fit, you want to get jobs. You're a woman. You want to blend. You want to, yeah, you're a young woman and you really quickly learn that the way that you're going to continue working is to be a good little girl is to be, is to shut up and hit your mark and say your lines. And like, and I was also able to do that part of it. You know, I was like, because I wanted to,

the jobs so bad. I wanted to do this thing that was my dream that I had loved doing since I was a little kid and had envisioned for my life. So I was very much able to let that side of myself in those early years in the business when I was a kid and you have no power and you know that it's very clear that you're expendable to just like fall in line and not really make too much noise. Because

You know, as a young woman in the 90s, late, I was like started, my first TV show was 99.

So like, yeah, early 2000s. And then through the early 2000s, you know, there was the rough time to be a young woman in the entertainment industry. Yeah, we were talking about that on your show, actually, how it's a miracle that we've survived and, you know, made it this far because there were so many weird messages and there was really nobody out there watching out for us. No. And it was so ingrained in the culture, too. You know, you had like,

I don't know, even legitimate at the time, like legitimate journalists, like Matt Lauer, like asking Britney Spears if she's a virgin, you know what I mean? Like, it's like Britney Spears is 17 years old, sir. What are you doing? You know what I mean? Like, and, and we culturally were all just like, okay, yeah. Like let's, this is the way that it goes. Yeah. Anything went. Yeah. Celebrity. And you remember like, it was like the height of,

Maxim stuff magazine, like all of the like gear or whatever. I don't even know what all the dude magazines were, but I remember having this conversation with,

first my publicist, and then I had like a general meeting at a big studio for movies and being told like, well, you know, all the executives get the Maxim Hot 100 and they, you know, put post-it notes on the girls that they want to see in movies. So if you're not doing Maxim, you know, your chances of doing movies like plummets. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I did. I put on a bikini and like crawled around on a stage. You were in Maxim. I was... Yeah, I was in Maxim and Stuff magazine. Playboy? No. No. You? No. Any of them? I'm too Midwestern. Well, that's what they love, honey. I don't need to tell you that. We can put you in some pigtails and some hay and we're good to go. No, but I just...

Yeah, I was like 22, I think. And I was on Dawson's Creek at the time. And I remember feeling like... Also, by the way, I was so not empowered in my own sexuality. It wasn't like a thing that I was doing in a way that was empowering to me in some way. You were just doing what was expected of you. I was doing what I was being told was going to help me get jobs. And like...

Like, that's a bummer. That was a real bummer. That's a bummer in retrospect. And sometimes, you know, the autograph guys will still... Show you those pictures. Ask me to sign those pictures. Those are the ones they bring to you. Yeah. I had one photo shoot where I am, like, dressed and all greased up and, like, look, my hair is wet. It's very sexualized. And that's the one I always see. Of course. And it's so... I mean, to this day, I'm like, guys...

Come on. It's been 20 years. Get over it. Like we can't, we gotta find an, we gotta find a more recent pick. Oh my God. Okay. I'm, I am too a straight shooter. Yeah. Do you find that you have been celebrated for being forthright or do you see it as even today? Is it something that

Makes things more difficult for you. I think we have to hold both. I think that both things are true. I think I am celebrated by some and I think that it makes things more difficult in other ways and makes me not appealing to some people because of that. Yeah. So I'm not surprised like if there are people that don't want to work with me or

For that reason. I mean, I don't know. I've never gotten that particular feedback, but I can imagine that maybe there are, but that's okay. Cause I guess I wouldn't really, that wouldn't be a choice I would want to make anyway. At this point. Yeah. Now that you know what you're worth is, you know, I love that. A lot of people, a lot of women struggle with that, I think. And I think that we're often seen as difficult people.

Oh, right. Well, did you, did you have the moment? Like, I mean, I think for me, it was my late thirties where it was like a scene in memento where all of a sudden I was thinking about all the actresses that I had heard stories about how difficult they were over the years. And then I was like, Oh,

difficult. They were just voicing what they needed. They just had an opinion. It was so hard back then to stand up. And I know for me, Shannon Doherty was one. She blazed the trail for me and she showed me how it was okay to stand up for what you wanted and say no to what you didn't want. And I learned that from her.

And it was that moment where you're like, oh, she's not difficult. No. That's how they wanted me to see it. Right. Oh, she's hard to work with. Oh, she's hard to work with. Or is she telling you exactly what she needs and what she requires in order for her to do her job? But when a man does it, of course, or a boy, like a boy on set. Yeah. You never see men having to justify them, like having, speaking their minds, speaking their truth.

But that's what we have to do. It is. It's not fair. But so is life. I mean, honestly, yeah. I think it is. But I think it's better for our girls.

Oh my God, you know what? I found it so interesting that you were saying your mom inspired you to stand up for things and speak your mind. And you're doing the same thing, magnified even, multiplied for your daughters. And can you see how strong they are because of that? So strong. So strong. And a lot of times I feel like people ask, like I get parenting questions or whatever when I do interviews, and I always default to...

I don't think you have to do anything except lead by example. They're always watching you from the time when they're like baby, baby, babies. The way that you speak to people in public, the manners you have are the manners they're going to have. You want your kids to say please and thank you. Guess what you got to say. You have to be a person that says please and thank you.

Like it's just we think that we can tell our kids what to be. But the truth is they're going to watch us and learn how to move through the world. Yeah, but I also like my early 20-year-old. I think even my older 20s, she's 27 right now, I find that it's hard for them to stand up.

And be heard. And that sometimes, you know, sometimes, or they'll come to me and talk about it or talk about it to other people. In the moment, they don't feel comfortable standing up for themselves. And it's so preconditioned in people. Our culture? Yeah. Yeah. It's like systemic. I mean, it's just crazy. It's crazy that we're just still like...

Like trying to bang down these doors. And I'm always encouraging them to, I know it's scary. Yeah. But you've got to do it because nobody's going to stand up for you. Correct. Other than you. Yeah, I know. I know. And I think, you know, the more girls that get that message and the more they continue to do it, you know...

We're going to have to just keep going. We just have to keep going. Push forward. We just have to keep pushing. We just have to keep pushing forward. I want to talk to you about ADHD because now I'm so curious. Okay. You've talked about that you were recently, in recent years, diagnosed with ADHD later in life. Yeah.

That's happening to a lot of women. Yeah. I recently had a conversation with Holly Madison and her autism went undiagnosed until later in her life. She was like, it explained so much for me. Yeah. Well, you look back at the totality of your life and you're like, oh, oh.

oh, oh, maybe I wasn't an airhead. Maybe I wasn't terrible in school. Maybe my brain just worked differently. No one was really identifying it because as women, as girls, ADHD really presented differently than it presented in boys. And like, as we know, the medical bias

in terms of men versus women, like is just, it's through the roof for everything, for everything. There's just not as much research done. They really like,

on the experience of men and men's health because we live in this like... They put us in the same category. We're just not supposed to be that way. It just doesn't... It's not a one-for-one. And so for a lot of women and girls, ADHD presented less like that hyperactive little boy running around can't stay in the seat thing and more sort of internalized. Like the chaos was inside and then...

I mean, I always think about this. Like men and boys really do seem to go outward with their stuff, right? Like their trauma, they like fight, they punch, they get, you know. Women do tend a lot of times to really go inward. Turn in on themselves. And in on themselves and feel terrible about themselves. And so, yeah, like my low self-esteem, low grit. Because I just was like, I know I am not keeping these things straight. I was always feeling bad about myself. Yeah.

And, uh, my older daughter was having just some like learning stuff at school or just, you know, the teachers had suggested maybe we get her evaluated for some learning differences. And as the doctor was going through the checklist, I was like, I have every single one of these things that this guy is saying. And afterwards, my, uh, the birdies dad, my, um, now ex-husband like was like, it's you. I was like, it's you.

And so I went to the doctor and you got your own appointment. Yeah. I got my own appointment. I went to another, I went to an adult doctor and he was like, Oh yeah, you have ADD. Um,

And I started talking about it on the podcast. And the more I started talking about it, the more women would reach out and just like, I can't, I have the exact same story. It wasn't until my 12 year old was being diagnosed that I realized it. My whole life has a different perspective. You know, I was sort of always feeling like I couldn't get it together. There was something wrong with me. And now I feel such...

Oh, I feel so much more generous towards myself and my younger self. I know. You feel bad that you kind of robbed your younger, the little busy inside of you. Yes. Because I feel like I was really hard on her. Always hard on yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I'm like, I would hate that for my own daughter, you know? You've really paved the way for a lot of women by opening up that conversation because I had

After just talking with you this afternoon, I want to go get tested. So it's just testing like,

Well, there's like verbal testing or blood tests. No, no, there's no blood tests, but they, but they'll like ask you a series of questions and stuff. And like, you know, there's look, we're all in a time where there's a lot going on. Jenny, there's a lot on our minds. You know what I mean? And like, and so I think, and not only that, we're in a very particular time in history where like we're getting so inundated with information and

at a level that no one has ever in history been inundated with before. So, you know, I think that there's a lot of things at play, but I do know that there are many, many women, you know, like older millennials, young, uh, Gen Z and, uh, who are really finding this like late in life diagnosis to be incredibly helpful and, you know, finding ways of managing it better. Mm-hmm.

I mean, you've enlightened me and I appreciate that because I, you know, I told you before I bounce from thing to thing all day long and I don't finish projects. It takes me like weeks and weeks to finish something and I leave it in the middle of the living room floor, walk around it. One thing for me is just like getting, I take medication and taking the right medication really helps me to focus. And what's interesting when you say like,

I'm able to sort of prioritize tasks in a way that literally never in my life when I'm, when I'm taking my medication, like never in my life have I been able to do this. And all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, I know exactly what I have to do. I'm going to finish this and we'll put it away. And it's no more like piles on the bottom of the stairs. Like so many piles, so many files, the piles. I, yeah, the piles were a joke in my home.

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Hey, this is Joel and Matt from How to Money. And you know, Joel, I am looking forward to summer this year because I'm taking a road trip up to the northeast. That's exciting. Where are you headed? Yeah, we're taking the kids on this like ultimate American history adventure. We're talking D.C. for the Smithsonian, then Boston for the Freedom Trail and Paul Revere story, as well as heading up to Acadia up in Maine for some serious hiking, maybe a little bit of craft beer as well. And actually planning this trip got me thinking it's so smart to have your place on Acadia

Airbnb while you are away. With the co-host feature, you can hire a high quality local co-host to do the work for you. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. You said you take medication. Do you mind sharing what it is that you take? Yeah. So I, and I work well. So now I, then I like they reached out and I work with a drug company now, which is amazing. Yes. I mean, this is also guys, I mean, let's just be real.

We got to diversify, you know what I mean, at this point in our lives. But it really did work out. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So it's this medication called Calvary, which is non-stimulant. It's a non-stimulant ADHD medication. There are several different types. And I just think people need to, you know, obviously talk to their own doctors. I'm not a doctor. But for me, the non-stimulant is better because I already have been a person my entire life who has...

issues, winding down, sleeping and shutting your brain off. Shutting my brain off. Yeah. I don't want anything that's going to take me up. Exactly. Exactly. Except like a little bit, the stimulants sort of, I guess the ideas with ADHD, um,

It sort of counteracts it, I think. I know. That's what they say. Yeah. It's confusing. Yeah. But you do have to try like different. You just have to you have to see what works and like. Yeah. And be open to the process and that like it might not be the first thing that you try that makes a difference. But when you get the right thing, you'll know. Yes. When you get there, you get there. Yeah. I think with anything. Right. Yeah. You have to experience things in order to know. Yeah. And to learn what doesn't work for you. Yeah.

You recently posted a video on Instagram that really got to me. It stuck with me. It was so honest and relatable. You talked about having a weird day and feeling down on yourself and how when you opened up to your friend, you found out that they feel the same way. Like they're having those days too. Yeah. I absolutely know how negative talk can affect my mental health. It can put me in a bad mood. It can kind of derail my day sometimes. Yeah.

I'm most of the time my own worst enemy. Yeah. And I think it's really interesting. Like how do you turn that car around for yourself? Well, it's funny what, um,

Yeah, I posted this video because I just felt like sometimes I have these moments, especially on social media, where I'm like, if I'm going through this, the chances are there's like a million other women today who need to see this right now, this second. And what had happened was that I was just having this moment where I was like, I don't like the way I look. Like, I'm so old. I'm getting old. I'm like, you know, whatever. Like, I was just going through this whole thing. And I called one of my friends who's like,

One of the most gorgeous, most put together. We're the same age, basically, you know, like we're the same age. And she, I called her not to, not to even vent about this, just to like, I just called her and she started going on about how bad she was feeling. And I thought to myself, like,

okay, well that's insane. And I would see it from a different perspective because my perspective, I was like, you are literally the most beautiful, like put together. You've got it all going. Like you're, you've literally never been hotter, you know, all of these things. And then I was like, well, I have to remember that for myself. Like I need to talk to myself. Like I'm my own best friend. That's it. And that was it. I was just like, Oh, I have to, I have to, that's, that was the switch I had to flip. I'm like,

Would I say that about my best friend? No, I would never say that about my best friend. And I lost... I had told you this earlier because I was sharing about my tattoo. But, you know, my high school best friend Kate passed away. It'll be two years in August. And, you know, she was like... Didn't make it to 46, you know? And...

And I just like, I just hear her in my head like this. Guess what? You get to still be at the party. Fucking enjoy it. Yeah. Like it puts things into perspective. Yeah. Like we're still at the party. We still get to enjoy it. Yeah.

And on top of it, we're going to look back on this time and I'm going to be like, oh my God, I was so hot and young. I know, right? You know what I mean? Because that's how it is now when I look at my younger self. I'm like, oh my God, I was so riddled with self-conscious thoughts and hatred, inward hatred about one thing or another and just worrying about things I couldn't control. I know. And I think that too. Like I look back on my early 20s and my 20s, my 20s.

Period. And I'm like, oh, that poor girl was like, I was so...

Oh, remember when I like went through that period of time where I was like trying to run two hours every day? Like what was I doing wasting so much time? And I try to apply that same logic to myself now. That is the, that's the piece. So I'm like, okay, be your own best friend. Think what, think what Kate would say to you. And also like think about how you look at yourself at even 32, you know? Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, girl, you've got it. Like, you've got it. You look amazing. Everything's great. You're young. You're the youngest you're ever going to be again. Right now. Right now. Take advantage of it. Yes. Live it up. Yeah. Because it passes like that. Yes. Or if something tragic happens and your life ends. Yeah. Yeah. May as well have enjoyed it. Death really puts things into perspective. Majorly. When someone you love and someone you're close to dies. Yeah. Yeah.

Gives you a lot of pause to think about things. Yeah. Was that for you, was Shannon like one of the first people that that really was like your contemporary? I mean, and of course you guys were kids together as well, so. It was actually Luke. Oh, yeah. I lost my dad and then I lost Luke and then, well, the world lost Luke and then Shannon and both of those, my, you know, friends, my companions for so long were,

It just, you wake up and you're like, I'm so lucky and grateful to be alive because literally I could die the next moment. And it just makes you think about like living your life to the fullest and being happy. Like I spent a lot of time not being happy and like wondering what the fuck is wrong with me? Why can't I be happy? And I...

It just changes everything. It's a real perspective shift. And it's also so difficult too, because I think when people haven't lost someone that they're so close to, it's hard for them to get it. It's just hard to get it. Yeah. My husband, he lost a kind of close friend, but someone he went to school with, but that's it. He's never lost a parent, a grandparent, you know, never lost. We had, no, not that.

He hasn't lost somebody like his contemporary. And someone you're really like really close with and connected to forever. But I still feel like I don't know how you are, but I definitely like Kate is around all the time and she like sends me signs and like I just feel her presence in my life. Isn't that a trip? Like when someone you are very close with, I noticed this with my dad the first time,

When he died and I noticed, I thought, oh, that's it. He's dead. He's gone. I'll never see him, speak to him, feel him again. And I mourned that so hard. And then at a certain point, one day, I just remember the wind blew. Yes. Oh, my God. I just got the chills. And you just, I just instantly just started crying. Because you knew it was him. Because I could feel him. I'm having the chills right now too because you can feel him. And I, in that moment, sort of translated into crying.

It's not a loss. It's... Now they're with you all the time. You can talk to them anytime you want. I know. Like, you have full access to them. I know. I, like...

Kate is around more now than ever when we were, you know, like we spent, we were kids together and then we spent so many years of our lives apart because I lived in LA, she lived in Arizona and then in New Jersey and we had children and, you know, we would try to get together. And, but I would see her maybe a couple of times a year. We would talk on the phone almost every day at least. And then sometimes once a week if we get, we're both busy. Yeah.

But now it's like, yeah, she's with me all the time. There's something so comforting about it. It's really special. And, yeah, and a constant reminder that, like, first of all, we don't know anything. Nothing. We have no control over anything. No control over anything. And we know nothing. And we don't know how it all works. But I do know that they're here with us. It's comforting.

I feel like it's a better way to look at things. Otherwise, it's just kind of lonely and sad and you're just sad about it forever. I was really sad the other night. I was feeling really lonely. It's hard, you know, like being divorced and I'm living in a new city, really. I've only been here since 2020, which is, I know, five years, but it's been a weird five years. Yeah. A lot has happened. And I lived in L.A. for 23 before that. Mm-hmm.

And the other night I was feeling really lonely and I was kind of like waiting for someone to call me. And like, I was just like bummed. And I was listening to music and Kate's like favorite song came on like out of nowhere, randomly. And it's not a song that comes on very frequently. You know what I mean? It's not like on my heavy rotation. It just doesn't happen. And I just was like,

I'm not alone. I get that you're here. I love you. Oh my God. It's so comforting. I know.

People, yeah. And people don't really, I mean, because you're a spiritual person. I take you as a spirit person, spiritual person. Do you believe in angels? Of course. Of course. Obviously. There are people that don't believe in angels. That's crazy. I mean, I talk to them all the time and I send them to people. Yeah. And, you know, whenever any of my family is on a flight, I surround the plane with them. Yes. Yes.

And it's such a great feeling because they're there to help you. Yeah. I 100% believe in that. Yes. Do you think when we die, we, our bodies stop, right? And then our soul goes on. And then is that the angel that I'm feeling? I think it's, yeah. I mean, I feel like I actually don't know. I mean, I feel like it's like on an energetic level, on a molecular level and like,

I don't know. I think that time doesn't, I mean, time doesn't exist, right? Like actually time doesn't exist. Right. Somebody made that up. Right. But so.

I don't know. It gets into like quantum physics of it too, which is insane and not something that I can really wrap my head around. Guys, I did drop out of college to be on Freaks and Geeks. I dropped out of high school to be on TV. On TV. Yeah. So I did drop, I did drop out. So I can't, I can't speak to the quantum physics of it, but I'm interested in it. But I do think there's just, I think it becomes like some sort of expanded energy field that like,

Yeah, that their presence, it's a presence, it's energetic and it's, you know, shows up and is able to show up and do things like change your Spotify to play a woman's work. I don't get it, but it really works. Yeah.

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Hey, this is Joel and Matt from How to Money. And you know, Joel, I am looking forward to summer this year because I'm taking a road trip up to the Northeast. That's exciting. Where are you headed? Yeah, we're taking the kids on this like ultimate American history adventure. We're talking D.C. for the Smithsonian, then Boston for the Freedom Trail and Paul Revere story, as well as heading up to Acadia up in Maine for some serious hiking, maybe a little bit of craft beer as well. And actually planning this trip got me thinking it's so smart to have your place on Acadia.

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Starbucks ground coffee, Red Bull energy drinks, Spam Classic, Planet Oatmeal, Charmin bath tissue, Totino's pizza rolls, and Frito-Lay chips. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event-long savings. Shop in-store or online for easy drive-up and go-pick-up or delivery. Subject to availability. Restrictions apply. Visit Jewelosco.com for more details. So I know you talked about that you have like bad days. You're feeling bad. Are you self-limiting thoughts? Yeah, yeah.

I heard this great thing actually last night from my daughter. She was saying if you talk badly, if you have negative self-talk, you have to stop yourself and say three things that you love about yourself. Oh, I love that. So what are three things you could say that you love about yourself? Oh, my gosh. You know what? I really have so much that I love about myself. That's amazing. I love that I am like very –

generous in all of the ways with people, like with my time, with money, with like anything you need, like resources, connections, other friends. Like I know a person who can help you out. Like you better believe that like you're going to get that information. I'm going to like help if I can see a way in which I can be a helper. I always am.

doing it or giving someone something or like, like literally like, Oh, you like this bracelet here? Just take it. Like, I'm just like, I'm just very much, um, don't come up to me on the street and ask me for my bracelets, but I, but I do, I do tend to be, I love that. I'm, I love my generosity. I love that. I'm in my time and mostly like my time. Like I, I,

I feel like I'm very generous with my time to things that I care about and I show up for people that I love. Are you a hard worker? Yeah. I can tell. I'm like an insanely hard worker. We're at some, again, Midwestern something. Yeah.

Instilled in us from the fields or something. I don't know. You started working professionally in high school. I worked at California Pizza Kitchen in high school. Like a restaurant job will instill a work ethic like nobody's business. But I was always a hustler. I was like always hustling. Like I still to this day, I like kind of consider myself a hustler. But...

I also have all of these things that I want to show up for social justice issues and, and, you know, um, all acts of service, all you're doing acts of service. It's all about your generosity. So I love that. Okay. I love my nose.

I have a perfect nose. You really do. Wait, you were born with that. It's natural. No nose job ever, guys. Nothing. Really beautiful. Thanks. I really, really love my nose. I was thinking how beautiful your eyes are. Oh, thank you. I do love my eyes, but my nose is really my favorite of my physical attributes. I really love my nose. And I love my...

Well, I love my kids, but like about myself, like I love, uh, I love how I love that. I'm an open person. I love how open I am. It makes me feel less alone. And I love that if it can bring other people some comfort. Mm-hmm.

then that's such an incredible bonus. So I really love that too. So those are my three things. I love all of those things about you so, so much. You said you love your kids. You have two daughters. I have three daughters. My ex-husband was like, should I have the third before we got divorced? I was like, I know. Oh man. Damn. Yeah. Three's fun. But two is great too. Two is great. One was real nice. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought it was just going to be one. One and done? I kind of did because I was young too. I mean, you were very young. How old were you? 24. 24. Oh, okay. Michelle was 24 when she had Matilda, I think. I was 20. I had just turned 29 when I gave birth. I was 28, like my whole pregnancy. And then I had Bernie at 29. But like having kids in your 20s

is a lot when you're working. It is a lot. It's a lot to have kids at any point. At any point. But yeah, being a working mom full time. It's really hard. Taking that baby to set with you at 6 a.m. That's right. That's what I'm talking about. So I was like, well, I don't know if that's going to happen again. And I was on, I was on Cougar Town. By the way, I loved you on that. Thank you. I really, really did. I love that show. But that started, I did the pilot when she was six months old and then started on her first birthday. So Birdie. So, um,

Those first few years of her life, I felt totally overwhelmed and underwater. And thankfully...

...had the greatest nanny of all time, Ileana... ...who made my entire life possible... ...and made Birdie's life very enriched and loved... ...and was able to like schlep her down to Culver City... ...to the studio every day. My Nina. I call her my Nina. She was the nanny as well. She's my best friend, my mom. Everything all rolled into one. She's raised my children with me. We were in a partnership. Ileana and I were partners...

And it really was, she's just, she was just such an incredibly important person in my life and in my kids' lives. But I didn't think, I was like, I think I can just handle the one. And then Birdie like turned four and I was like, maybe. Yeah, it takes, I think, you know, this is what I do because there's three of them. I can't remember which is which.

Luca was four or five when I decided. Well, all my kids were happy accidents. Oh, well, that's great. Yeah. I wanted to have a second one and it wasn't happening and I went to acupuncture.

And that didn't work. And then of course, three months later I was pregnant. So it did work. Like it's something. Yeah. Yep. But what do you think when it comes to raising these young women and sending them out into the world on their own now, what are some of your biggest fears? Oh my God. Obviously. Well, I mean, this is like so dark, but my biggest fear is that there'll be sexually assaulted, raped and murdered. Yes. I mean, that is dark, but can happen. And, and then my second, like my fear is,

one a is that they will be sexually assaulted, raped or murdered by someone they love. Because statistically speaking as women, like that's a, that's a reality. And I know that's really tough. No matter how strong we raise them to be. Of course. But, but that's the thing. Like as you've lived your full life, like I'm sure I have had friends who I've then, who have later than me,

you know, revealed to me that they were in an abusive relationship or, you know, it's not, it's not like, you just don't know. You just don't know. Um, but I, that is like my biggest fear. That is just my biggest fear period, full stop and always has been. Um, and then I guess beyond that, I'm, I'm hopeful. And I think that, um,

My ex-husband, Mark, and I have raised them in a way and continue to, by the way, raise them in a way that they feel very secure and safe with us so that they would tell they would be able to come to us with anything in any kind of situation, you know.

It sounds like you and your ex-husband have a good relationship moving forward as far as co-parenting. Yeah. We're doing it. We're trying. We did a lot of therapy. It's not always easy. Yeah. Yeah. I did it. Yeah. I did it too. I've been there. And it's just so much better when you get to the place where you just accept it and you forgive. Yeah. And you move forward. Yes. And I think...

For us, our relationship now, and I mean, I'm sure yours and Peter's obviously is, I can't even do the math, but it's been a long time. Mark and I have known each other now, like it'll be 20 years in June, you know? It's like a huge chunk of my life, like that this person has been in. And we have always been deeply committed to the

love that we have together for our kids because we do have love together for our children and you obviously have love for him because he made your children I do I do and you spend so much time with them yes I feel the same way and you know and he and I had sort of like an evolution of our relationship and we um worked in therapy for a really long time before we actually separated um

to try to just see what was possible and what our relationship could look like. And so it's, it's shifted and evolved and it looks different and like, you know, but I just want, I mean, what I want for him, I know he wants for me, which is ultimately like we want each other to be happy and fulfilled. That's beautiful. Yeah. Well,

That's what we should all want for people that we like love in any way at any time, you know? Right. Yeah, absolutely. So on this podcast, we talk about the choices we make and where they lead us. What would you say looking at your life as a whole was the most impactful choice or decision that you've made so far? The most impactful. That's a big question. It's huge. Because we make 35,000 choices every day at least. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I think that we all have real sliding doors moments, you know? And I always think I'm very much like a could have gone either way. You never know. Like you could have picked door number two and still I could, I could have picked door number two and still could have ended up right here talking to you through another door.

set of circumstances. Maybe this was always meant to be, you know what I mean? Maybe I was this, this person, you know, that I am in this version sitting here talking to you and maybe the journey would have looked different, you know? Um, I mean, I had an abortion when I was 15 and I think that like, I've obviously talked publicly and openly about it, but I think that my life would have looked different.

vastly different had I not been able to make that decision safely and with support. And I, I get, I'm very, I am very concerned to continue to be very concerned, um, about the safety of women and girls in our country. And because it is, you know,

There are many reasons why women need access to abortion care. But one of them is to be able to control their futures and their lives. And I was able to do that. And I'm so grateful for it. Yeah. That's a big decision. Yeah, it was a big decision to have to make as a child. Yeah, basically a child. Yeah. Okay, I love that your podcast is called

Doing your best. Yeah. Busy Phillips is doing her best. That's all we can do. But what does doing your best mean to you? I mean, it totally changes all the time. Um, but doing your best means that you like genuinely are like,

this is what I'm capable of in this moment in time. This is my best. I'm doing it. And I try to like really show up with my best for people. And sometimes I'm not, sometimes I don't, it's not, it doesn't work and I fail, but I really do try. And sometimes we talk about on the podcast, sometimes I'm like, you know what I did my best at this week? I got rid of the piles on the stairs. Yeah. Look at me. Look at me.

That was what I was able to do this week. Or I remembered to go pick up my dry cleaning this week. And that was a big deal. Yeah. Just acknowledging those little wins is important. Yeah. And so like on a daily basis, I mean, it's sort of like almost like a gratitude journal in a way too, because I'm like, you know what?

I did my best. I did my best at parenting, you know, today with that situation. Didn't do my best yesterday, but that's okay. Like there's always tomorrow, you know, whatever. Right, right. You said before, I know you're really close friends with Michelle. Yeah. And I think she's wonderful, Michelle Williams. Do you believe in soulmates when it comes to your girlfriends? A hundred percent. Oh yeah. Do you think it's like predestined? Yes. I do kind of. I think Michelle and I were always supposed to meet

We almost did like several times too. But you met way back on Dawson's Creek, right? On Dawson's Creek, yeah. But even before that, like we then, I remember at the time when we finally like, or when we finally, when we first met and like became like instantly knew that we were,

meant to be together for life um I we were like wait you were in you know doing math on like you were in London staying in this hotel in this month or this week and this month it was like yeah like we were both in this hotel like we must have seen you know yeah like stuff like that like

Did you see Past Lives, the movie, the Celine Song movie, Past Lives? I think so. I don't remember anything. Okay. Sounds familiar. But they talk about that idea. It's the Korean idea of imam. Imam? What? Imam? You're asking me? I don't know. I think it's called imam. But where it's like, oh, Michelle just texted me. See? See? Weird. See? I love those moments. I know. Me too. Well, this has been happening to me so much recently, like in such an intense way.

We're like, I'll think about somebody and then the text pops up. Two days ago, I was talking about a vitamin that I started taking because a girl that I used to go to SoulCycle with in Los Angeles like 10 years ago told me about it. And I have not spoken to this girl in forever. And she texted two minutes later. Well, that's the thing. You know you're exactly where you're supposed to be when you have those synchronicities. A hundred percent. Wait, we have to look up the proper word for this, guys. I'm sorry. It's the idea that...

Every person that you come in contact with you have like past life history with. Hmm.

That's kind of nice. You should watch the movie again. I will. Inyon. Inyon. Inyon. Inyon. Inyon. Right. It's Inyon. Like onion, but Inyon. Inyon. Yeah. Inyon. Inyon. I love that. And so it's like the idea of Inyon. Right. I'm going to look. I'm going to research that. You should. And you should also just watch that movie again if you did. Because it was really good. You have a special bond though with your cast from Dawson's Creek. Like certain members on that you're still friends with. Like Michelle. Yeah.

Yeah, well, actually, we all have been sort of chatting recently because, I mean, I'm sure you relate to, like, James got a cancer. James Van Der Beek got a cancer diagnosis. And I think it really was shocking for everybody. You come back together in those moments. Yeah. Yeah.

And so we've all been kind of like checking in and texting and reaching out and making sure everybody's doing good and doing all right. And where is everyone? And yeah. And Michelle and I got together with Katie, which hadn't happened in a long time, even though, you know, just life like just happens. And, um, and I had reached out to Josh, um, after the fires, cause I knew that he had lost his home anyway. Like we had been talking and, um,

Yeah, and Kerr reached out. I just, you know, yeah, you spend a lot of time with these people when you're young. And that's very formative, those years. Yeah, but I feel that way about the Freaks and Geeks cast, too. I just, you know, I can go...

like literally like year, two years without seeing or talking to one of them. And then I run into them or talk, call Linda or text her. And then it's just like, it's nonstop. Nothing happened. Yeah, exactly. Same as us. Yeah. It's like your high school, literally guys like your high school friends. But somehow closer because you're thrust into these weird situations. Exactly. Well, before I let you go. Yes. Busy Phillips. Yes. What was your last I choose me moment? Oh,

Oh my gosh. Well, I think my last, I choose me moment, uh, was a couple of weeks ago. I was in like, this is the thing. Like I'm like, I told, I'm like a person that shows up. I do things, but I had, I was supposed to go to LA for like 24 hours to perform in this live show. That was supposed to be a, it's a fun thing that I've done for years, this live show. And I love it.

But I had had just a really, really emotionally taxing, like with kids stuff and personal life stuff and probably perimenopause. I don't, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like I was just like very, I was like emotional and we were about to start filming the talk show.

So I would have had to fly there. Oh, yeah. And I had just had cricket for spring break and had taken her to the UK. So I was back in New York. I was jet lagged. I was going through all this other stuff with just, I don't need to get into it, but like, you know, just emotional stuff. And I called the guys and I was like, guys,

I can't come. I can't come to LA. I'm going to, I need to choose myself and my mental health. I really felt like if I got on a plane for six hours to go perform in a, in two shows, one at 6 PM and one at 9 PM, and then get back on a 6 AM flight back to New York and then film my first show in

two days later, I would be a mess and I wouldn't be able to do any of those things well. And there's an older version of me that would have like been like power through it. Suck it up. Be a trooper. Suck it up.

But I was like, no, I'm just going to be honest with my friends about this thing that I had committed to previously when I had, when I thought I could do it. But like situations have changed. There was like new information. I'm sure they were disappointed and that was really hard for you. But did you feel relief? Well, I felt immediate relief, but I want to say that's like the guys who produce this show, it's this live like stage show that I have done for 10 years and

called The Thrilling Adventure Hour. And they like release it as podcasts too. And they do it with a bunch of other actors and so fun. And the guys who write the entire thing are awesome. But like just full disclosure, neither one of them have children. Do you know what I mean? And so I sort of was like kind of preemptively like, oh, they're not going to get it and they're not going to be kind about it. They're going to just be mad at me. That was like what I thought. And they wrote back with the nicest, loveliest like

You're the most important. Your well-being is more important than our show. We'll figure it out. Don't worry about it. Take care of yourself. They honored that. Yeah. And I was like, oh, you guys really are my friends. Thank you. Yeah, it was really nice. That's a good one. I hear that a lot. Saying no to things. Yes.

Well, it's a hard thing for people like us to do, I think. Especially when you're generous with your time and your everything. And I want to show up. Yeah. You know? Because that's who you are. Yes. But I do tend to not overextend. I will say that. The canceling last minute was really like, this was a thing that I don't... I'm not a person who does that. I don't flake. But this was like...

a step beyond, it wasn't a flake. It was like, if I do this, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. Yeah.

I've been there. Yeah. I think I've had the nervous breakdown. But it's so good when you say no to that. Yes, it is. Yeah. Well, you didn't flake on me today. No. I didn't flake on you. No. And I'm so happy that our paths crossed. We had such a good day together. I know. It was so nice. I love chatting with you. And I love your clothes. Look. Look, you're wearing my vest. I'm wearing me by Jenny Garth. It's me by Jenny Garth. There you go. What are you wearing? Me. Me. By Jenny Garth. Thanks, Missy. Yeah, I'm going to go pick up my kid now. Okay. Bye.

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