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I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison

2025/4/9

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Hey kids, it's me, Kevin Smith. And it's me, Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter, man, who my wife has always said is just a beardless, dickless version of me. And that's the name of our podcast, Beardless Dickless Me. I'm the old one. I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language.

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You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. On this podcast, I want to talk to people that exemplify strength and bravery.

Being courageous and standing up for yourself can be one of the hardest things you can do. My guest today is incredibly strong and brave. You know her from being Hugh Hefner's number one girlfriend, which was captured on the wildly successful reality show, The Girls Next Door.

and her books, Down the Rabbit Hole and The Vegas Diaries. She co-hosts the podcast Girls Next Level, and you can catch the new season of her show, The Playboy Murders, on ID and streaming on Max, May 5th. Please welcome Holly Madison to the podcast.

Hello, beautiful. So nice to meet you. You too. I'm such a huge fan. I love 90210 so much. Oh, gosh. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I'm really happy to talk to you today because even though our journeys have been very different, we are both independent women and there are most likely a lot of similarities between us.

Yeah, a lot of people welcomed you into their homes when you are on the Girls Next Door reality show. And I cannot even believe that it has been 20 years since.

since that show. Yeah, it's so crazy. Yeah. Does that seem like a totally different lifetime for you? 100% it does. It's so weird. Like, I can't believe it's been 20 years since it debuted now. And, you know, Bridget and I have a podcast where we rewatch and we talk about the show a little bit. And it's just crazy just how much just cultures change too and little things like, I'm sure when you watch your show too, you notice things that you're like,

We even did that back then. Right. Yeah. Like there's certain things that went down that you could never do now on a TV show. Totally. I'm sure you see that with your show. A hundred percent. We'll be watching scenes and I'm like, I don't think you could do a scene like this. Cause especially for reality TV in the two thousands, it was really just kind of showing a person's lifestyle. You didn't have to have that much plot or drama. So sometimes I'll be watching

watching it and I'm like, this is cute and all, but I don't think you can do this now. Cause like nothing's really happening in this scene. Right. Where's the plot? What's going to happen? Before we get into life at the mansion, I want to find out about your upbringing. What did you want to be when you were growing up? I think the first thing I wanted to be when I was super, super little and didn't really know what that meant was I wanted to be Alice in Wonderland. I thought you could pick a character and be that. But once I knew what a job was, I kind of

kind of was all over the place. Like I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be in the entertainment industry. I didn't really know. I just kind of wanted to get out there and do something. And as I got older, I was in college. I transferred down to Loyola Marymount in LA and I knew I wanted to be in the entertainment industry in some capacity, but I didn't really know what. But you had entertainment industry on your mind. Like, did you want to be famous?

I did for some reason. And I think it's because I always had a hard time like relating to people and like bonding to other people. And I had this weird immature idea that if you were famous and people felt connected to you in that parasocial way, that was like a shortcut to connecting with people. And, you know, spoiler alert, it's not. But I think that was kind of what I was thinking deep down. And I was a double major in theater and psychology. And I

I'd always loved the women of Playboy, like Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole. And I always kind of knew my journey was probably going to start there. And that was maybe going to be my foot in the door. And I didn't know it would turn into such a bigger thing than I thought it was going to be. You know, it seems so familiar that what you're saying, because it was the same way for me with Beverly Hills 90210. I had no idea that that would lead me to the life that I've

gotten to live. And I wondered at the same time, do you get tired of talking about the past or kind of where you started? Because for me, I can see how people would say, oh, I want to be known for something else or I wish I could just shake that, but I can't. And that's the fact. And so I have embraced it to the point where I love talking about it because it got me everything that I have now. I wouldn't be who I am.

Totally. Yeah. I went through a phase where I wanted nothing to do with it. This was maybe like I left the mansion and girls next door. I'd done my own spinoff show for a couple of years. And right after that, I was like, I just want to go a completely different direction. I don't want to be associated with Playboy or have anybody remember that at all. But that's like such a losing game, like nobody's ever going to. So I learned pretty quickly that that's like

Like the fight you can't win. And also because the reality show is presenting me as myself and people thought they were seeing my real life, but there was a lot about it that was manipulated. I never kind of run out of moments where I want to set the record straight. So I really don't get sick of talking about it because of that.

I'm curious because I'm such a huge 90210 fan. When you first got that role, did you know it was going to be a show that lasted or did you think, oh, this is just going to be my first thing on the way to something else? I didn't even think it through at all. I was just so excited to get the opportunity and see what happened. And I don't think any of us knew or expected or thought that it would turn into what it turned into, something that we're all still

interested in all these years later. It's crazy. It's so cool. But it's really cool. I know. Yeah. So for a lot of us, the first example we have of love is our parents. What kind of relationship did you see your parents having?

My parents are still together. They're still married. So they had a great relationship. But one thing I noticed, it's interesting. I never saw them fight once growing up. And I've never talked to them about this, but I have to assume they made a decision like we're not going to fight in front of the kids. They're not going to see any of that, which is incredibly admirable. But also I grew up with no family.

conflict resolution skills whatsoever because I never saw it play out. So I'm kind of the one where for the longest time in relationships, if even like a little thing flared up, I'm like, okay, well, we're breaking up. Well, it's done, you know? Yeah. That's so interesting. No, that's really, really interesting. And how did you learn how to do conflict resolution?

You know, I see it. I feel like my a lot of my interpersonal skills I've only really recently developed, like within the past five years, like I was late diagnosed on the spectrum. So now I understand a lot more how I work and how I perceive things differently over the years than maybe anybody else would have.

So I feel like really only learning to communicate effectively. That's been a very recent journey for me. Like I was operating as an adult for decades without knowing how to do it. And, you know, I would have falling outs with friends every once in a while that would turn to like never speaking again or, you know, relationships would end at the first fight because I just didn't know how to do conflict at all. Yeah. Yeah.

It's scary. 100%. Yeah. Communication is key. And I too felt like I lost about 10 years of very important developmental, normal human time by being on a show that was so popular and working so hard for 10 years on that show. I feel like I missed a lot of social things.

Yeah, that's so interesting to hear because I feel the exact same way. Of course, my situation was a little bit different because I was kind of living in this bubble, but I'm sure you were so busy being in a different bubble. Yeah. But I feel like my 20s, I wasn't dating like a normal person. I wasn't, you know, I had this, you know, career being on a reality show, but I wasn't going out and making a career the way a normal 20 something would. So for the longest time, you know, after I left the mansion, I was in my 30s.

30s, a lot of my friends would be about 10 years younger than me because that's what I could relate to. I had this solid chunk of like arrested development. Yes, arrested development. Yep, absolutely. I can so relate. Okay, so you moved to Los Angeles. You're in college and you're pursuing a career in entertainment. How does getting invited to the mansion come about? That

That happened because I was working for Hawaiian Tropic. And at one of the events, Hugh Hefner's doctor came and he was like, oh, I want to invite all these girls to the next Playboy Mansion party. And I was so excited because back then this was the year 2000. And back then those were like the cool parties to go to in town that were like really exclusive. And I'd heard girls I knew talk about going, but I didn't know very many who were invited. So I was so excited to go. And like I said, I was a fan of like some of the women who'd come from Playboy. Yeah.

So I was so excited to go to my first party. I didn't even stay that late that night. It was weird. I just stayed for a couple hours kind of toward the place and like went home and thought it was like the best night ever. And then I got invited to their pool parties, which were much smaller affairs. And, you know, Hef was at all of those. So I got to know him and his girlfriends a little bit. Not very well. Not as well as I should have got to know him before making some decisions I was about to make. But, you know, I thought I thought I...

had a good rapport with them. So

And then I moved in after a year later, after, you know, being invited to my first party. And I'd been in college and I was kind of trying to do too much. I was a double major. I was on scholarships. I had to keep my grades up to a certain amount to keep that. And I had to work full time just to pay for like my other bills and things like that, or as close to full time as I could fit in. And then I was also trying to audition and stuff. And it was just trying to do too many things. So I ended up failing at all of them. Yeah.

And I got to a point where I was living with two other people and they're like, at the last minute, I thought we were going to resign our lease. And they were like, we're not, you know, going to resign this. We're like going back home. So I was like, holy shit, I'm not going to have anywhere to live. And I'd been invited out with Hef and the girls before. And I'd always said no, just because I saw their whole like,

multiple girlfriend relationship and thought that looked a little too much for me. But because I had nowhere to live, I was like, you know what, maybe I will go out with them. Cause I was at the pool party, like right when this dilemma was going down. And one of the butlers was like, you know, one of the girls just got kicked out. There's like an open room here. And I'm like, you know what, maybe I will give this a try. And it turned into, you know, the next seven crazy years of my life. Yeah. Was there anybody in your life that was telling you not to move in?

There probably would have been if I had told people, but I didn't tell anyone. Yeah.

And you didn't want to hear their opinion. No, you know, I knew this was a very snap decision. I knew it would be a controversial decision. I just thought, you know what, I'm going to look back on this and this is going to be that crazy thing I did in college. I didn't know it was going to turn into a seven year long thing. And even my family, they didn't really know what was going on for years and years. I always kept every everything I told them was very PG because I was just in the thick of it and in over my head and trying to figure it out for myself. And I knew what everybody would say, but I also knew

they probably wouldn't have any advice that would work for me in the moment. Yeah. I found that I did that too. I didn't tell my family all of the details. Yeah. Sometimes when you're that age, you just kind of want to figure it out for yourself. It's weird. Do you think they would have advised you not to move in or discourage you? I mean, they probably would have said something, but...

And also, I feel like I was always kind of that kid that kind of did what I want. And I'm out of the house at that point. And what are they going to do? They don't live anywhere nearby. So you just were like, I'm going to do what I want. I like that.

Yeah. Okay. So having, I came up in the nineties and I feel like women were often pitted against one another. Oh yeah. I remember all the, you know, whether it was real or not. Yeah. The media list loved to stoke that fire. And I was wondering if the atmosphere that you were in at the mansion with that group of women, was it the same for you or, and did, did the men there help to sort of

foster or encourage that competitive nature amongst the women? It was so bad. And it was so bad. Like when I first moved in, there were six other women living there and, you know, they would come and go. So the roster changed a couple of times within the first four years I lived there and nobody got along. It was awful.

awful and i just thought you know i had like one other friend there who would be bridget who would end up on girls next door with me but other than that i didn't get along with anybody everybody was trying to get everybody kicked out everybody was starting rumors about each other and i was like this is just

horrible. And it wasn't really until after when I would look back on how things went at the mansion or even right about the time I left, because this was kind of one of the things that made me want to leave. I didn't realize that Hef was kind of like low key encouraging all that. Like pulling the strings.

Yeah, because I think that was for his ego. He felt good if he felt like the girls were fighting over him. And also we couldn't get together and ever be like, you know what, we don't feel like going out tonight or, you know what, we want to do this. Like we couldn't ever get together and, you know, unionize, so to speak, if we were all friends. So it worked to his advantage to keep everybody fighting.

And it was just so miserable and stressful. And when I kind of realized that's what's going on, it was kind of the last straw for me. And you know, the reason I left among many reasons. So that was definitely going on. And then when the cast of characters went down to three people, it was just me, Bridget and Kendra who ended up on the show.

You know, of course, there's a lot of that in reality TV, too. They always want to make things look more hostile than they were. The fact of the matter is that Bridget and I had lived through so much drama up to that point that we always tried really, really hard for everybody to get along. Or if something happened we didn't like, we'd just kind of be quiet about it and put up with it. But the show doesn't want that. So they'll take a picture of like

me sitting there with a resting bitch face and make it look like I'm giving somebody a dirty look. And then that would continue on even after Girls Next Door, because when Kendra and I had our spinoff shows on E!, they were produced by the same executive producer who did Girls Next Door, who was very close with Hef. And even after, you know, he would like pit Kendra and I against each other. And it's to the point where we still don't speak today. So it's very, very toxic. Yeah.

That is so sad to me because, you know, I know you probably feel this way too as you get older, as I've gotten older. Yeah.

I realized like what a waste of my time and energy that was and like how much better it feels to lift other women up around me. Yeah. That just changes how I feel about myself, how I walk around in the world. A hundred percent. It's so stressful being in that conflict all the time. It's like permanent fight or flight, especially when you live with the people. Yeah. I mean, you were dubbed as his number one, I guess. Yeah.

And there was quite an age difference. I mean, we don't talk about that much, but hi, he was in his 70s and you were just 21. Is that right? Yeah, I was 22 when I moved in. 21 when I first met him. In the early years of getting to know him, I'm just, I'm curious, did you think I'm falling in love or was it more like how someone might sort of describe idolizing a cult leader or something? Yeah.

It was a little bit of both. I mean, I think in the beginning, I very much looked up to him. I admired everything he accomplished. He seemed like such a great guy. You know, everybody, when they first meet him kind of has that same impression and, you know, you're going up to these pool parties and he's surrounded by all his closest friends who have nothing but glowing things to say about him. And you just think, wow, this is like an amazing human being. And

And then, you know, when I moved in, I had seen from a distance that girls kind of came and went and he wasn't really settling down with anybody. So I thought I would just be there for a short period of time. But we really bonded and he was very good at like love bombing and manipulating and things. So it did start to feel like more of a relationship. And I did get very emotionally involved. So I would say like later it felt like falling in love.

But it wasn't what I had on my mind when I first came to a party or anything like that. Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I'm all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive diagnostics.

Perricone MD works as hard as I do, and it shows. Go to perriconemd.com and use code Jenny for an exclusive 40% off for a limited time. That's perriconemd.com, code Jenny, J-E-N-N-I-E. We love LA. We have lived in LA for almost 40 years, you guys.

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And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out-of-his-element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups.

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You said before that the whole concept of going there and having there be other women and the whole group didn't really feel right to you. Did you battle with that same feeling a lot during your time there? Absolutely. And I made it very clear that I didn't like the multiple girlfriend thing. I didn't want it. And he was always like, well, it's not always going to be this way, just like a couple more years. And then like,

A year goes by and then another year goes by and like things never change. But he would always talk about like us settling down and things like that. And then it just wasn't happening. And then it got to a point where I didn't even want it to happen. So I was always very clear that I didn't like the multiple relationship thing. But it fell on deaf ears.

Yeah. I mean, he definitely heard me. I just don't think he gave a shit. That's even worse. I mean, for me, this is where it gets good though. You had one of the biggest I choose me moments. You left the mansion and Hef in 2008. Do you remember when you made that final decision to leave?

I do. And it was kind of something that happened gradually. We were doing the show, which was a huge success. And that, you know, I feel like helped my self-esteem a little bit because the show wanted to follow us doing different things. So it gave us an excuse because like we had a curfew. We weren't allowed to travel. We weren't allowed to do anything once we entered into that relationship. But with the show, we could actually go film somewhere. And because the cameras were with us, he'd let us all stay a night somewhere or something like that.

And then I started working at the Playboy studio. I was producing and directing all the Playmate of the Month features. And I love that job. It was an amazing job, like working with everybody there, working with the different women. And I felt like that did so much for my self-esteem. And I started to feel, because I almost, once I moved in the mansion, I felt kind of like crippled before for lack of a better world. I felt like if I leave here, I'm not going to be able to survive in the real world, which sounds so strange, but it was just the mindset I was locked in.

But once I was like doing a career and loving it and, you know, I were still like talking about the future and we actually like, we're trying to have a baby. We were like doing in vitro and everything, but it wasn't working. And when I realized it wasn't working, I was like, well, I don't know if I can stay here, you know, cause I always knew I wanted to be a mom. That was just something that was, you know, a non-negotiable for me. So that was kind of the first realization I had that I really wanted to leave. And then, um,

Things just started to get more and more tense between Hef and I. I don't know what was going on with him at that time. I almost look back at it now. And, you know, I've described on my podcast and things like that. And a lot of people will chime in, like in the comments on our YouTube or on our Patreon or wherever we communicate with people and say that the way he was behaving almost sounds like the first signs of dementia. Because I guess sometimes people can get really mean. Yeah.

And not that he'd never been mean before. We'd certainly had a lot of issues up to that point. But in the very end, he started getting really mean kind of out of nowhere over so many things. And I didn't know what that was at the time. And I was just like, I can't do this. I can't handle it. And I had already broken it off with him and leaving and things. But I was still staying in a different room with the mansion to kind of finish filming season five of the show. And we were called back to do commentary for the last DVD episode.

And Kendra was telling the story in front of the producer about how, you know, we had been watching a movie in a room and, you know, have followed her down to a room and said, well, why didn't you sit next to me here? And she goes, oh, I didn't want to like move Holly out of the way. And he started like stomping his feet and saying he liked the drama and stuff. And that's kind of when everything came together in my head. And I realized he's been orchestrating this drama and encouraging it the

whole time, which was incredibly hurtful to me because he knew how much I hated all the fighting with other girls and how long it had been going on. So that was definitely like the last straw and kind of like made me lose any feelings for him and just like cemented my decision to move on. Yeah. Once you see somebody for who they truly are. Yeah. You can't. Yeah.

And yeah, you've opened up in the past about the fact that you and he attempted IVF when we were together. Do you think, looking back now as a mom that you are, do you think that not working out was a blessing? A hundred percent. I can't even imagine it. It seems so strange to want to have kids with stuff that old, but it was just the mindset I was in. It's like once I entered into that place, I

Something happened to me where I felt like I need to make this work or nothing else. And there's nothing else out there for me. And, you know, I could point to a number of reasons why I think that is. But, you know, long story short, that was the mindset I was in. And I'm just so glad everything worked out the way it had because I had the best years of my life after I left the mansion and the best, you know, career moments and the best.

just family moments and everything. So it's just a really good example of how sometimes what you think you want, the universe has better plans for you. Yes. I love when that happens. You feel so divinely supported somehow. Yeah. But you don't feel that in the moment for sure. No, not at all. I mean, just think about how hard it probably would have been for you to leave him if you had a child with him. Oh yeah. It would have been impossible. It would have been a whole different...

life for you. Oh my gosh. I'm so happy that didn't, wasn't successful. Oh my goodness. Okay. So yeah, we've both been through breakups and divorces and I know you're newly single. And I know for me, each of those, you know, big life changing sort of obstacles are

turned out to be learning opportunities for me. And even if I didn't see them that way in the moment, I started to recognize my part in the reoccurring problems, my patterns that were serving me. Have you had some of those sort of revelations along your way too? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of it has a lot of like subconscious emotional unavailability, like picking people that I know aren't going to be that available because secretly I don't want to be that available, even though I really think I do. It's a really layered thing. Yeah. Why? Why do you think?

In secretly or like deep inside you, you don't want to be available. I have no idea. It's the weirdest thing because I don't think that's what I want, you know, but my choices keep telling me that I'm picking people either that, or I just really like a challenge for no good reason. I don't know. When's your birthday?

December 23rd. I'm a Capricorn. Capricorn. Those are very strong ladies. Maybe it is the challenge thing. So Capricorns always have to do things the hard way. That's one thing I've noticed. Like we're very hard workers, but we never take the easy route. It always has to be the hardest one we pick for whatever reason. Oh my gosh. I think, can I ask how old you are? 46. 46. Okay. So you're going to be 50 soon. You're going to be joining the club. I felt like for me after 50, I'm

I realized so much about like what a big, huge part my childhood and my past played into why I was behaving the way I was for so many years and why I just kept repeating it even though it didn't work. And yeah, like I didn't understand why I kept going back to that empty well. Yeah. It's so weird.

It's so weird. And you don't have sort of the tools or the understanding on how what your life could be like if you were to do things differently. A hundred percent. But also like the catch 22 of it all is I really think all those bad relationships we went through, like we had to learn something from that too. Like it was never really a waste of time. Mm hmm.

What do you think that the biggest thing you learned about your last relationship was for yourself? My last relationship? It was interesting because I was dating this guy for six years, the last six years.

And it was during the time that I got diagnosed, like late diagnosed autistic. And he was somebody like we had a lot of issues in our relationship. But one thing I really liked about him was he very much accepted me for how I was as far as like being an introvert or not being that good with people socially. A lot of people when they meet me, they don't.

I seem very disengaged and they think I'm stuck up or they think I'm being rude. And I'd had issues in relationships with that before where guys, you know, really didn't like that because they didn't think I was like a business asset because I would go to a dinner with them and they're trying to talk to somebody and I'm not engaging the wife as much as I should be or something. You know what I mean? So it turned into like a big problem. They didn't like that.

So I was dating this guy who totally accepted me for how I was. And I think that gave me the space to kind of look into why I am the way I am. And he was kind of similar in a lot of ways. So yeah,

it's weird that you would spend six years with somebody and that would be the reason, but it's kind of like my takeaway from that. Of course, I didn't know it at the time, but I'm like, he was kind of the perfect person for what I was going through and what I was learning about myself. And also he was so introverted and so like never wanted to go out and do anything, but I so fully got to indulge that side of my personality that I,

don't want to indulge it as much anymore. So now I feel now that I've learned what I've learned about myself, I feel like I'm so much better equipped to go out and actually work on my social skills and network and do the things I need to do. Right. Yeah. Cause you have to put yourself out there as a single woman, a single mom, you've got to,

you know, keep pushing forward. A hundred percent. And for business, especially in the entertainment industry, like I'm shocked I'm even working because I never, I never networked at all for like the longest time. Like I went through this phase where I was like, I'm not leaving the house, you know, back like 12 years ago when I had kids. So I'm shocked I'm even doing things now, but you know, now I, now I don't feel that way and it's not the way I want to operate. So remember in the beginning of the conversation, I told you there's probably a lot of similarities in us. I'm seeing them left and right.

Oh, that's so cool. I'm an introvert as well. And I never networked. And I've often thought like, oh my gosh, they say you have to be relevant or whatever to keep working. I'm not relevant, but there's something that has kept me pushing forward so that I can pay my bills, so that I can take care of my family. That's so cool. I think it's like that survival instinct, and you know better than anybody that

You're on your own, kid. Totally. 100%. I'm quoting a Taylor Swift song there. Yeah, I love it. I love that song. Yeah. It's really very interesting. And I would imagine what an impact in really great ways, but also in really not so great ways that time there in that life.

that life where you were living that you stumbled into, what the effects of that were for you for long-term and just your sense of self, your sense of being able to feel independent and grounded. I mean, it had to have had such a profound effect on you.

Yeah, it's weird. And it's really layered. Like I can't even point to one thing and be like, oh, I had arrested development because I lived in this bubble. It's like it's that but it's so many other things too. Also, when I exited the relationship, I just kind of wanted to look back on it positively, even though there was a lot of negative and just like put a bow on it and always talk about it like it was great.

But that didn't work for me because it wasn't truthful. And it wasn't just me looking at my experience and what did I experience and how was it? It's also dealing with like the world's opinion of what my experience was and what it should have been. There was a lot of that to work through too. So interesting. Like, do you feel like what the world thought and wanted got interrupted? It sort of interrupted what you thought and what you wanted?

Well, one, the first difficulty I had with it, I felt was after I left the mansion, you know, I was on my own doing my own thing. And every day somebody would come up to me in real life, whether I was doing a meet and greet after my show or I was just at the local Starbucks or something. And they'd be somebody who was probably a fan of the show. And they'd be excited to ask, oh, how's Heifer? Do you miss the mansion or all of that?

I mean, how is everybody? And, you know, I hadn't had a great time there, hence me deciding to leave. But I didn't want to disappoint anybody. So I was like, oh, everybody's great, even though I'm thinking I had like I haven't spoken to that man in years. And every chance he gets, he makes a low key snarky comment about me in the media. But I felt this weird responsibility to like still be the cheerleader and still be.

make everything sound like it was great. And it was really creating like a pit in my stomach because, you know, sometimes people will look at me and be like, oh, well, you know, you're doing a podcast about the show or you wrote a book about this. Like, why are you still talking about it? And so that might seem, you know,

out of pocket that I'm still talking about it. But to me, like they have to understand every single day of my life, I see somebody in the wild who like wants answers or think they know what was going on and stuff. And I think, yeah, I think a lot of people really like bought into have some, my relationship and were invested in it and wanted us to settle down and were disappointed when that didn't happen.

But it was a very polarizing relationship. And even though the show was beloved, it was also very polarizing. Like, I guess a really simplified way to look at it is back then it's like,

if you wanted to put it in political terms, like conservatives didn't like us because we were like naked sluts. And then liberals didn't like us because they thought we weren't feminists. So it's like, you're kind of getting hate from all sides and people, I don't know, there were people that loved the show and were mad that I left and the relationship didn't work out. And then there were people who just kind of knew something was wrong, but, you know, beneath the surface. So,

It was a lot to navigate. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. So layered. Mm-hmm. And I too can relate with that because when you are a part of something that is so iconic, so looked at from other people's perspective as being this amazing, incredible thing, either wanting it or hating it. Mm-hmm.

It twists things for yourself. Yeah, it has more of an effect than people would think. It's weird. Yeah, yeah. Dating for anyone, really, not just a single mom. It's really not for the faint of heart these days. I've been there. Do you think you're going to be ready to date again? I don't know.

I'm kind of like, I can't picture myself like dating, so to speak. I'm like a long-term relationship girl. Like if it's like a long-term relationship or nothing, like I'm kind of at the point in my life where I'm so busy with stuff that I'm like, either it's the one or nothing. Like I'm not interested in the guy who's kind of hot or he's fun to sleep with, or I'm going to date this guy here. I'm not interested in that capacity. Would I like to find love again? Yes. Okay.

Um, but even like with my last relationship, which was the only guy I dated since my divorce, it was just hard because, you know, I don't want to introduce my kids to somebody unless I'm engaged. And then I'm very busy with work. I'm very busy with co-parenting. So trying to find a slot in my life to see a guy, even though I ended up being with him for six years and it was quite a serious relationship from my perspective, um,

It's just, it's exhausting. Like I don't have enough time in the day, you know? It takes a lot of work. So if it's not the one, I don't have time for it. And you reach the age and you are independent. You're a self-made woman, like-

You're having such success now. I think it just puts things into perspective. A hundred percent. I just don't have time for it. Like I already have kids. I already have my dream wedding. I don't have these kinds of goals I need to check off. Like I just want the love of my life. You know, I don't want to waste my time with anything less. Yeah. You'll know. Yeah.

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Find more ways to love L.A. at discoverla.com. Hey, kids, it's me, Kevin Smith. And it's me, Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter, man, who my wife has always said is just a beardless, dickless version of me. And that's the name of our podcast, Beardless, Dickless Me. I'm the old one. I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language.

It's for adults only. Or listen to it with your kid. Could be a family show. We're not quite sure. We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress. Listen to Beardless with me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Ow goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend.

Sit down with real game changers in the sports world, like Miami Dolphins CMO Priscilla Shumate, who is redefining what it means to be a Latina leader. It all changed when I had this guy come to me. He said to me, you know, you're not Latina enough. First of all, what does that mean? My mouth is wide open. Yeah. History makers like the Sukar family, who became the first

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We kind of talked about this earlier, how you had that example of love growing up and still do with your parents. Do you think that you have had that in your own relationships yet? No, or I'd still be with that person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. You know, you want to live up to what your parents had or what you saw as a kid.

And anything that falls short of that kind of feels like a failure almost. Totally. A hundred percent. Mm-hmm.

So you and your Girls Next Door co-star, Bridget, have a rewatch podcast, like you mentioned. I have a 90210 rewatch podcast with my co-star, Tori. And sometimes it's almost torturous to watch yourself. Right. It's so all over the place. There's like the really torturous cringe moments, moments I feel like I need to apologize for because I feel like it came off sounding mean about somebody when I didn't mean it.

And then there's, and then sometimes, you know, I will say about my rewatch podcast, because I had written a book about my experience at the mansion, which was very,

much talking about the negative because I felt like that was the side nobody had seen through Girls Next Door but I feel like during the rewatch podcast I it allows me more to reclaim like the good times as well like oh that road trip we did with just the girls was really fun or you know these buffet and movie nights were really fun so that's the positive side of it from my perspective but yeah there's a lot of cringe too and a lot and a lot of stuff that

You know, we have to point out like that was totally fake and that wasn't the way things really went down. Yeah, for sure. When I'm watching myself back and I see that younger me on the screen, the TV, I'm always like, wow.

Wow. Look what you did. Look what you survived. I know what was going on in your real life during this time, in this season of the show. And look how far you've come. I mean, I can't imagine what it must be like for you to have to rewatch something that was actually the reality of you being in a relationship that caused you trauma. Do you go back to those feelings?

Yeah, I mean, I've worked through a lot of them just from like writing my book and stuff. So it's not completely fresh, but it's hard sometimes. Like I will watch things that will piss me off all over again or me upset. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm glad to be out of it. So yeah.

That's a positive. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it was a stepping stone for where you are right now with your two beautiful children. Totally. And it was, you know, even taking in the negative parts into consideration, like I never wanted an ordinary life.

And then that's what I got. You got an unordinary life, girl. I'm proud of you. Oh my gosh. Yes. You have a 12-year-old daughter and a nine-year-old son. Their names are incredible. Rainbow and Forest, two of my favorite things. Thank you. I love that you named them that. It seems like kids are getting on the internet now and growing up so fast and

You know, how do you feel about that with your kids? Like, do you, are you, do you control their access to things that they're seeing on the internet or are you able to? We do. We, me and their dad, we're both very strict about it. They don't have phones. They do have iPads. They're limited to an hour a day. My daughter loves- Oh my gosh. You are-

You are amazing because I said that I wanted to do that and I never like made it happen. Like I was too weak. I gave in. And no, it's hard because she, all she wants to do, you know, she's obviously has other hobbies and things we make her do, but all she wants to do is be on the iPad with her friends. It's a lot of fights, but you know,

we keep it strict. Sometimes they'll get a road trip where they can take their iPad in the car, but then wifi doesn't work the whole time either. So yeah, they only get like an hour of iPad time and they like to watch things like we'll let them watch shorts on YouTube, like on the big TV in the family room, you know, on the kid only channel. So they like that. So, and sometimes something will come through that's a little bit inappropriate, but I always, you know, pointed out and we laugh about it and,

I think things are pretty good so far. Yeah. Yeah. 12 is where it starts to get even more challenging because they want to do all the things that their friends are doing. Yeah. And then you're like, it's hard to stay strong and be the mean mom that doesn't let them do what everybody else is doing. Totally. 100%.

Yeah. Do your kids want to be in the industry at all? Do you know, do they, do they have any interest in entertainment of any kind? Sometimes my daughter asks about it and I have to tell her like, I don't think it's fun. Like you think it is like you have to get up really early, which you, you have to sit in a makeup chair for like hours, you know, you have to do a lot of reading and I don't think it's as fun as you think it is. Yeah, I know. I tell her, you know, when you're 18, you can do what you want, but do what you want.

You are just so beautiful. So are you. Oh, God. Are you kidding? You're like the idol of my teenage years. You're like the most beautiful woman. I know how I felt about it, but how have you felt when it comes to aging in the public eye? Do you ever feel like pressure because...

Then I can relate. You were captured on film and, you know, you were in Playboy and you are frozen in people's memories in a certain way. Do you feel that pressure? Does that weigh on you or how do you get around that?

Um, I, part of me has a sense of humor about it because I was being told I was too old from the day I set foot in LA or not too old, but like, you're going to be too old. Cause I'd be like waitressing and you know, there'd be like two older men at a table trying to act like they're in the industry when they're really not, which is such a common thing in LA. They're like asking me what I'm trying to do and how old are you? Oh, I'm 19. Well, you better hurry up and make it. You're almost over the hill. Yeah.

So it's like I almost have a sense of humor about it now because like I'm 46 and it's like if somebody wants to tell me I'm old today, cool, because they were telling me that when I was 19. Like it's just it means nothing to me now. Although but I do, you know, I do care about how I look and I do looking a certain way is fun for me. It's a hobby.

I like, you know, especially for making content online and doing my TV shows. I want to look a certain way. Like I'm in true crime now and true crime lighting is brutal. Going into season two of my true crime shows. I was like, you guys, I'm going to need a little bit more lighting. Like I can't, can't do the true crime lighting anymore. So they were kind and they gave me an extra light. Um,

Yeah, I mean, I get some dysmorphia and stuff. I think the time I felt worst about it was after I'd had my son, which is my second kid. It was 20. I had him in 2016. And this was around the time when social media had been around for a minute, but everybody was really getting online and really doing the front facing camera stuff and selfies were the thing.

And like, if I scroll back on my camera roll to 2016, I just see reams of me trying to take a picture of my own face for whatever reason and never liking it because, you know, when you're pregnant, you know, you gain weight and things swell up and your face even kind of changes and things move around a little bit. And I just remember that feeling comes back when I see those pictures and the feeling of not recognizing who I was anymore and, you

feeling just so out of touch and out of it. And the postpartum and the pregnancy hormones don't help with that. And it was just such a sad, depressing feeling. I felt like I wasn't myself anymore. And I'm over that now and I'm back and I've learned to contour and I'm happy with my face again. But it's a real thing. It happens. And it's just interesting how it can really sometimes affect your sense of who you are, even though we all know deep down that we're not

you know, who are as people is not what we look like. But when I was trying to learn a flattering selfie angle, it was rough.

I have so many of those bursts on my phone too, where you're like, I don't like it. Like I've got to do it differently. Yeah. And then if someone by chance picks up your phone and looks at your camera roll, it's so embarrassing. Totally. And it's like the iPhone front facing camera is no one's friend and it's sad and it doesn't match what we see in the mirror. And I hate it. That's so true. You, you talked before and you've been really open about your diagnosis with autism and

Do you think that having that diagnosis or having that awareness has impacted your romantic relationships at all?

Um, well, I just broke it off with the guy I was with when I found out I was on the spectrum. And he was always, you know, great with talking to me about it and being very understanding and things like that. So he was a great person to be with for that. I think it will make, you know, the next person I'm with, I think it'll make it easier, because I think I'm better at communicating, making eye contact, you know, understanding how I come across when I was so clueless about it before. Yeah.

Yeah. Hopefully that'll be a positive. I think that that awareness that it gives you sort of a relief and, and an opening to be more gracious with yourself, you know, and allow yourself like to be a little bit more kinder to yourself. Yeah. You're dealing with something that other people don't have to deal with.

Yeah. And I think when other people know that about me too, maybe they won't take it so personally when they catch me like zoning out or some, some weird thing that I do where before it was like, oh my God, this bitch hates me. And she's being so judgy. Why is she like,

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Or listen to it with your kid. Could be a family show. We're not quite sure. We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress. Listen to Beardless with me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How? Go slower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Hmm.

Mmm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out-of-his-element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And, as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup.

Take a big whiff, my bra. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

I'm Camila Ramon, Peloton's first Spanish-speaking cycling and tread instructor. I'm an athlete, entrepreneur, and almost most importantly, a perreo enthusiast. And I'm Liz Ortiz, former pro soccer player and Olympian, and like Kami, a perreo enthusiast. Come on, who is it? Our podcast, Hasta Abajo, is where sports, music, and fitness collide. And we cover it all. De arriba hasta abajo.

Sit-downs with real game-changers in the sports world, like Miami Dolphins CMO Priscilla Shumate, who is redefining what it means to be a Latina leader. It all changed when I had this guy come to me. He said to me, you know, you're not Latina enough. First of all, what does that mean? My mouth is wide open. Yeah. History makers like the Sukar family, who became the first

Thanks. And I wonder what made you go into the true crime area?

Growing up, I always loved things like unsolved mysteries. I always loved stuff that was a little bit creepy and a little bit mysterious. Even my fascination with like old Hollywood, like I grew up obsessed with Marilyn Monroe. Like I always loved the stories that kind of had a hint of tragedy to them for some reason. I was always really drawn to those. And I never thought about getting into true crime on my own. Like I was always a consumer of it, different podcasts I love listening to and things like that.

But my agent came to me with the idea for Playboy Murders that the production company had come to him with. He's like, you know, if you want to do this, the network wants to green light it. And at first I was like, no, because I didn't want to do another Playboy branded thing. I was like, I can't. I've reached my limit no more. But then he's like, let me just send you the deck and, you know, let me know what you think.

So he sent me the deck and it was a lot of cases I'd never heard of. They were all so different. They were all so interesting. And I was like, no, wait, this is a show I would actually watch. So that's when I knew I wanted to be involved. And it's just been such a rewarding, interesting process to be a part of. And I love doing it and I hope we can do more. Yeah. I mean, I'm really intrigued by it too. I watched a little bit of it and

I didn't know about these cases. And so are all the cases on the show about people in that world, the playmates, playboy world? Yeah. In those cases, there's always somebody in each case, whether it's the victim or the perpetrator or somebody who witnessed something in a major way, was a part of the playboy world, whether they worked for the magazine or were a bunny at one of the clubs or were a playmate. So

So, you know, a lot of my purpose in the show as a talking head is to give a lot of background on what that world is like and what the jobs were like and the history of it and things like that. And each story is so incredibly different. And we're on our third season now. I can't even believe we found this many cases. But when you think about, you know, how long Playboy has been in business and how many Playboy clubs there were across the country and how many people worked for the company, I guess it makes sense. So, yeah, season three.

You're going into season three? Mm-hmm. That's so great. I'm really happy for you. I'm glad you said yes to it because it sounds like it's not –

It's not putting you back where you don't want to be. It's putting you into a place now where you're serving a different role. Yeah, I love telling the stories I love. And with my other true crime show, Lethally Blonde, a lot of the stories, not all of them, but a lot of the stories focus on people who are involved in sex work. So I like to tell a broader story about the person rather than, oh, they were a dancer or, oh, you know, they were, you know, working, you

you know, just doing escorting or whatever. People tend to get brushed off that way. So I like to look into who was this person and what else, like if I were that person, what would I want people to know about me? What else about me? And paint a broader picture of what was going on in their lives. So many people get written off and, you know, so many people are targeted. Perpetrators will often look for sex workers because they think those are the people who are on the fringes of society. And those are the people that won't be looked for. So they think they'll have more of a chance of getting away with it.

It's so sad. It's so sick. Do you, do you feel like exposing yourself to all of that impacts you in a negative way at all? I don't think so. I think I focus so much on trying to get to know as best I can, obviously from the distance I'm at who I think that person was and what else is going on in their life. It's sad, of course, but,

But I feel good trying to tell their story in a dignified way. And one thing that's really special to me about season three of the Playboy murders and season two of Lethally Blonde, which will come out after this, is there are so many family members of the victims who wanted to come forward and share their stories. We didn't have that in the beginning. You know, we would always reach out to the families every single case. Right.

But I think because we have seasons, you know, living on max now that people can go watch and see what kind of a show this is and how we tell the stories. People want to be there. And it's horrible that the stories have to be told in the first place. But if you have to tell the story, I think the best person or the best people to get the last word are the loved ones who are lost. Yeah. I mean, I don't think a lot of people know about the dark history of Playboy. Did you know about it when you entered into that world when you lived there?

Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I learned about it as I was there. Hef was a really big scrapbooker. He had 2000 volumes of scrapbook on his life and he would save anything that was written about him, whether it was positive or negative. So over the years, I would come across things like maybe a book that was written about him in the 70s that had a lot of negative things in there that I almost didn't want to believe just because this was the person that I loved and cared about. So I would, you know, make excuses in my head like, oh, this can't be true or, you know. Yeah.

But it was. Yeah. That's wild. What a life you've lived. Fascinating. Interesting. And you're not, you're happy. Yeah. Who, I'm sure who expected it, but to see you succeeding and pulling away from it and surviving that trauma and, and thriving is really inspirational. Thank you so much. And to see you as an example to other women and,

To be able to stand up for yourself and risk losing it all in order to survive, in order to take better care of yourself is really, really inspiring. Thank you. Yeah, you have to follow your gut. When you know it's time to go, it's time to go for sure. And there were no guarantees. We'd been on a hit TV show for a while, but-

You know, we'd been in this Playboy bubble where nobody could really reach us as far as other opportunities. Like, I didn't think I would have anything waiting for me on the other side. I had like a tiny bit of money I saved up and all I knew was I couldn't do this anymore. Where did you go when you moved out?

Well, I moved down the hall at first because I had to finish doing some scenes for season five. So I had a little bit of time to kind of get myself together. And I immediately started dating a guy who was real bad news. And that did pretty quickly. But I had put money down on an investment property that I wanted to rent out. And I had crashed there for a while.

And then almost, I would say like four months after I moved out fully, I broke up with that bad relationship and I had been wanting to do Dancing with the Stars so bad. And I kept like auditioning and trying out and they kept saying, no, you know, I don't think it's going to work. Like you're, you're dating this 80 year old man. I don't think middle America is going to accept you. But they finally took me on because one of the contestants got injured right before the season started and they needed somebody last minute. So they're like,

Who wants to do this so bad that they're going to step in last minute without all the rehearsal everybody else has had? Oh, my God. It's me. It's me. It's me. I'll do it. And I had so much fun. And it was such an amazing couple of months. And during that time, I also like one of my goals was...

I was a really big fan of Dita Von Teese and the Crazy Horse and Paris and things like that. And I really wanted to do something in burlesque just for fun. Like my original idea was I was going to do it as like a plot line for Girls Next Door, like kind of a one and done just for fun. But then I kind of got this in my idea after talking to a few people. No, I'd really like to do something in Vegas at one of the places on the Strip.

And they happened to have a new show that was opening that was a $30 million budget, you know, from Broadway directors, this burlesque show coming in, and they were looking for somebody for that. And I was auditioning for it while I was doing Dancing with the Stars. And I ended up getting that. And it was just like, everything kind of fell into place, like everything I wanted. It was like the ultimate, you know, domino effect of manifestation. But I could never predicted that, like, when I decided to leave the mansion, I was like,

I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I can't afford an assistant anymore. Like all I have to, you know, I have time to just do my own errands. Like I really didn't know, like I have this list of things I wanted to do, but they all seemed like such long shots, but they really fell into place. That's the thing when one door closes and you let that other door open. Yeah.

It's magical things happen. Yeah. It's so scary. It's like the whole jump in the net will appear thing. And I'm still at 46 years old. I'm not used to it, but I know it's a thing and I know it's true. And I know it's what I have to keep doing. Yeah. I keep pushing for that. That's amazing. Well, before I let you go, Holly Madison, what was your last I choose me moment?

This is just so simple and silly, but I just have to choose to enjoy life because I'm really achievement oriented. And I tend to throughout my life, go through different phases of like having anxiety of not having achieved enough, or I'm not on track or I haven't done this yet. And yeah,

Every day, like I'm looking at it right now because I'm sitting in front of my window. Like I love my backyard. It's so pretty. And every day, almost I take a picture of it and I post it on my Instagram story. And I'm like, it's a perfect day. And I just remind myself to like choose to love life every day because you could have the most amazing life, which I feel like I do and still fall into this weird funk where you feel like you don't have enough. You're not achieving enough. And no, no, you just have to choose to love life. So that's my I choose me moment.

That is a perfect one. Thank you so much for coming and being with us today. I have loved talking to you and getting to know you a little bit more. Thank you. I'm such a huge fan. It was such a privilege to talk to you. And this was so nice. Thank you so much. I'll be rooting for you. Thank you. Okay. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye.

for a limited time. That's paraconemd.com code Jenny. J-E-N-N-I-E. We love LA. LA is so beautiful. It's mind blowing. From the walk-up windows and rooftop bars to the year-round, oh, I

I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison

I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

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I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison 53:34 Share

I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

Shownotes Transcript

I Choose...To Leave A Life That No Longer Serves Me with Holly Madison