I Choose...To Watch It All Come Together with Tamron Hall
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My guest today is a two-time Emmy award-winning television host.

and executive producer of her syndicated talk show that is now in its sixth season. She's a veteran journalist and bestselling author, and she's got a new book out that I just love the message of. I can't wait to talk about it. Please welcome Tamron Hall to the podcast. Hi. So good to see you. It's so good to see you. Oh my gosh. I

the best time on your show. It was like a week ago. Yeah. Can you believe it? It all changed a week ago. It goes so fast. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for dedicating a whole episode to the idea of I Choose Me. I was so tickled. Tickled.

Love, you know what, because I think it's such a great first of all, I didn't know the exact episode. Kudos to my team for finding the episode. But I think it is it transcends age, race. It transcends where you are in your life, because at some point that question of choosing me and what does that feel like? I just thought it was so perfect. So thank you. It was it was wonderful. Thank you for my you get a producer's credit.

Oh, thank you so much. I'll take it. But since we talked so much about me last time on your show today, I choose to talk about you, Tamron Hall. Thank you. Can you take me back to the beginning? I want to know what you were like when you were a little girl and what kind of home you grew up in. These are the things that I'm curious about.

Well, you know, I think my mother would describe me as a very interesting child, especially because it was a single 19 year old mother of one. My mom.

was in college when she got pregnant. And she's from a very, very small town called Luling, Texas. It's a hill country right outside of Austin. We got the best rivers and the best barbecue in the world. The best. And she came home, I would imagine, and we had not talked a lot about it, but I'm sure that, you know, you're 19 and you come home and you're pregnant. There's a lot of stigma attached to that. There's a lot of shame.

My mother's mother passed away when she was 10. And so my mom was 10 years old at the time. So her primary parent was her father, like this giant of a person in our lives, but was shouldering a lot, you know, raising a little girl by himself and her sisters.

And, you know, she comes home from college and she's pregnant. And the relationship with my biological father was not one that was a stable one for her. And my grandfather, who's a very, was a very strong person said, you know what?

We're going to raise her here and we're going to, you know, give her the best life possible. And was very supportive. I was the only child born in the hospital in the entire town that day. Oh, my goodness. I know. My mother talks about the friends of hers who they all kind of lined up to go. I make the joke. And it's true. My mother's name happens to be Mary. They did not name me Jesus. Right.

The arrival had all the three wise men coming. My mom talks about everyone showing up to see me as a kid. So I was born in this circumstance that could have been one of great shame for her. And I'm sure she debated it, but it turned into one where instantly she had this great support system.

of people around her, including her father. And I was the beneficiary of that. And at some point my mother decided that she wanted something bigger than this small town life that she was living. And it wasn't a negative, but like so many of us choosing themselves, she chose herself. Um, and by choosing herself, she gave me, um,

the best opportunity she felt, which was leaving our small town. And so I grew up with my mom and a great group of aunts and uncles. You know, my mother would work a couple of jobs because she went back to school to get her degree and she'd work a couple of jobs, um,

To support me. And this aunt would pick me up on Wednesdays. This uncle would take us fishing. And, you know, so it was just this big. That's really cool. It was very, very, very cool childhood. In the process, my mother says that she noticed that, you know, I was.

outgoing around my family members, but very different out in the world. I was a lot shyer kid. I was an only child. And so all of the kids in my neighborhood had siblings. So I was a target, you know, just how kids work, right? You know, you're going to, they're going to find your weakness and

My weakness was I was the only child. And so now I'm up against big groups of siblings and, you know, and all these things. And so my mom got me in sports. I ran track. You know, I played volleyball. I did all these things as my mom was trying to build my confidence. I played the clarinet. You know, you name it. Hey, hey, I played the clarinet. What chair were you? I was chair one, ma'am. Hello. Two ones right here. Two ones.

was. Let's take people on the road. Carnegie. Let me get Carnegie. My favorite part of playing the clarinet was the reed. You had to soak the reed. I thought it was so cool. Soak the reed. Oh, yeah. And that smell. No, that's the best. My mom was always putting me in things for the very thing that just happened, like putting me in music. It was a connecting force. So

the reason that my mom put me in band was for the same reason we just connected because music is a connecting thing you know it brings people together so she thought I guess it'd make me a popular kid or get some friends she was right yeah well she was right look I'm friends with you now we're gonna go to my mom but she kept trying to bring this personality out that I showed with

My cousins and I was always really good around adults. I was in fact, my nickname was not necessarily because I was very precocious. You know, my cousins, when there was a dispute, I was like the lawyer. I'm like, hey, look, let's hear the side. My grandfather had a soft spot for me because of what happened with my mom. And so if there was something they wanted, he'd like send me in. I'm like the I'm the U.N. I'm going in making deals for them. They want candy. You know, I was very

very confident around adults, very, very safe around my families, but in the world, behaviorally, I showed up different. And so my mother really made sure that I had this community of support. She really wanted to always make sure that I could show up as this confident kid. And that's

really the start of what I do now for a living. We would do little talent shows. I couldn't sing. I couldn't dance and birthday parties, you know, they do like this little in the South, they have talent shows. You're going to every birthday has a talent show like here in New York, every birthday ends with a pizza, you know, and when I'm in the South, we'd have these big birthday parties in the backyard or at a park or at a zoo. And then inevitably someone's like, let's do a talent show. I couldn't sing and dance, but I was a talker.

And so I would be like the emcee, you know, I'd get up and say, next up, it's Jenny and the Jeanette's hit it, you know, my gosh, person in the middle, facilitating all of the talent that was around me, again, hint, hint, kind of what I do now. And that was, you know, the road. And I started out on that. And I was very fortunate that around the age of nine, my mother,

fell in love with the person who was the dad that God meant for me to have, my stepfather and who I refer to as my father. And he is that and was that until the day he left this planet. And

He too, going back to the mantra of choosing you, I was, I don't know, messing up in high school and I guess middle school and not doing what I was supposed to. And he pointed to the TV and he said, if you get your grades, it's great. That could be you. And he pointed at this woman. She was anchoring the news. Her name was Iola Johnson. And she was the first black woman to anchor the news in Dallas, Fort Worth.

And he said, if you get your grades up, that could be you. And I look up and I see this woman. I'm like, what is this you're speaking of? And I love a good challenge. And I then started getting into writing classes. I got in, like there's a group called the JAs and they did this scholarship thing. And I, you know, started writing and applying and just kind of doing these things to prove that that woman on the TV could be me. Wow. So it seems like that sort of sparked that interest in you of storytelling and

Yeah, absolutely. I think it was the storytelling and the idea that someone thought enough of me to issue this challenge. I think sometimes when people issue a challenge, particularly to our children, it can be seen as a negative. But I think that people issue a challenge to you because they believe you can do it. And they want you to set sights on something big or something that you can accomplish. That's why.

You know, my son right now, he's five and we have this badge system my husband found on Amazon. And it's so complicated. I let them deal with it. But it's like, if you do this, you get the badge. And then if you do this, and then if you get five badges, you get a ribbon. And if you get a ribbon, you can cash out. I'm like, oh, my head's spinning. But...

Just do it. I'm like, dude, just give them a pizza party. But it works because my son's like, the other day he walks, I goes, dad, I'm going to get that badge today. And I'm like, oh my God. Okay. So cute. Adorable. But yeah, he cashes in his badges. And so often the cash in is a ribbon and then he takes the ribbon and then he goes to, he likes bowling. And so we take him bowling or pizza party. But Moses is a bowler. Moses is the bowler. Okay.

which I was like, okay, we'll figure that one out. But, you know, it's again, that idea of giving someone a goal and, and saying, without saying, I think you are capable and worthy of reaching that. And that's what he did. I mean, that's the exact opposite of what a lot of people hear, which is you're not, you could never be that.

Right. And, you know, and that's the thing when I wrote my children's book, Harlem Honey, you know, we have adjusted, for example, the way we talk to kids about crying. Right. There was a time people would say big boys don't cry or, you know, you want to get a wipe away those tears in some of the language that we all grew up hearing. Right. You say to a kid that's crying, dry your tears. There's nothing wrong. Big kids don't cry. Big boys don't cry. Right.

And when I wrote Harlem Honey, it was centered around fear, right? How do we change the way we talk about fear? We all experience it. We all deal with it, different levels, of course, but it's an emotion that is not one that should be tied to shame. And when I was creating this book, much to your point about how we

position things now, right? My father positioned this challenge in this positive way that inspired positivity. It's the same with emotions. You know, when I had my son and I'm sure you've experienced this. Now we're obsessed over like ABCs. I got all the books of the ABCs and the one color shape. And then very early on, someone said, you know, social emotional development is more important at this age. How to count. And I'm like, what?

because I went to pre-K and I vividly to this stage and I'm 54. I remember the blow up letters in my Catholic school kindergarten. I guess it was, there was Mr. M with a munching mouth. I'll never forget that. Oh yeah. 50 years later, I remember Mr. M with a munching mouth. Um,

And that was the focus, right? This is 1970 at the time of 75 and focuses getting you, you know, reading and academics and the testing that was such a big part of our culture and still is, but it was everything determines everything about you. And then suddenly our eyes awaken through probably some painful situations that we all witnessed and watched over society where kids are bottling themselves around

or pushing themselves down and bottling up emotions and not being able to express how you feel is detrimental to your mental health, is detrimental to the adult you have the capacity to become. And so for me, that's been such a big part of my focus and why I said, you know what, how do we talk about fear as my father so wonderfully learned to talk about goals with me?

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Listen to Soul Incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk about your children's book more because I read it and it's really cute and it gave me all just good feelings. So I commend you for it. But I want to go off of what you were just talking about, about how your father helped you. I know you've talked about this before. You suffered a grave tragedy in your life. And it's just hard to think...

of getting past that. No, listen, I and thank you for asking about it, by the way. And just as we talked about on my show, challenging things, I was the first to tell you, I said, I don't

I don't technically like talking about exes because you're in your future. And I liken it to when you go to dinner and someone suddenly started, your current person is there and they're like, Oh, did you ever run into Jimmy? It's like, what? You know? And so we were on the show, you were so gracious and so wonderful in the way you talked about the evolution of relationships and it's part in your life as with this

conversation we are having, I feel so safe and cared for by you. And I want to thank you for that. Because for people who are listening, what we're talking about is the death of my sister. As I mentioned, my stepfather became the dad I was meant to have. And he had two children. My mother had two children. And we really became like a black Brady Bunch family. And because he was very adamant about

not seeing us as half or step or we were a family. This is my sister and my sister, which I'd always longed to have, right? I wanted a sister. I don't just, cause I visualize us like, you know, doing girl stuff, doing her hair and everything. And when I met her, she was like the most beautiful and chic and just seemed worldly, right? Just, you know,

just was awesome. Like she just had the right outfits on. And I remember she was the first person, she had a bottle of perfume and it was a necklace. And I just, I know she was just like chic. At the same time, she was a person who I would hear my father say,

you are better than this guy or you should not be in this relationship with this person. And I would hear these conversations in my teen years, but it was always this push pull with them. And that push pull often surrounded the people she was keeping company with romantically. Yeah.

And she would move in with us and move out, move in, move out. And it was just always this tumult, you know, around her relationships. And as we got older, you know, she would say, you know, dad doesn't understand. And, you know, I love this person or that. And I was old enough by then high school to recognize like these guys are coming over and

These guys, these are not, I'm 18. I'm by now I'm dating and I can write on here. It's not just dad being dad. Right. I could tell. And as the years would pass, she come back into our lives and disappear out of our lives. And at some point she starts to get stable again.

in her life and she is in a relationship with someone and he starts to come by our home and you know, things start to feel good finally in her life, you know, she's bought a house and things are going great.

And I invited her to come to see me in Chicago. By then, I figured I'm the big sister who's a big deal now. I'm the big little sister. I'm an anchor in Chicago. Come and see me. I got a townhouse downtown near Harpo. Yes. So she comes with me and she brings...

the person she was seeing in her life at the time. And I don't know, Jenny, what day it was, their visit, but I'm in my townhouse and I hear this like, there's a rumble of just sound and energy and something crashing. I was going on. I run down to my bottom level, which was a guest bedroom. And there was a table that was shattered and she was standing there and she's kind of like clearly dazed and he's standing there.

And I know there is an altercation and I can see it.

And I instantly started yelling at him like, what? Get out of my house. And I'm trying to grab the phone. I had a phone downstairs and there was a, like a, my garage was nearby. So there was a broom handle thing that was there. And I grabbed this broom and I'm like, get out. And I'm like, not hitting, but I'm threatening, you know, to get out. Cause I get out right now. I kick them out of our house, my house. I call my dad instantly. I just like lock the doors, call the police.

And I go to call the police and I said, oh, I can't. I'm Tamron Hall. The police are going to come to my house and they're going to know that. It's going to be all over the news. It's going to be all over the news. And what? I can't. So I don't call the police. I, you know, bat patch her, you know, get her ice and we clean up and we don't really, I don't really ask what happened because I don't need to know because I can see. And then we go to bed. Okay.

The next morning, I come downstairs. He's in my house. He's back. In the house. And I'm like, what? And I said to her, what are you thinking? I kicked them both out. She's visiting. They're visiting. And I said, get out. I'm going. I remember I said there was a spa. I'm going. And when I come back, you got to get out of my house. I have this whole thing.

Call my dad. She's so selfish. She doesn't why, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm going off about it. And my dad's like, well, you know, she'll figure it out. And I'm like, dad, she's not going to figure it out. Um, because I was hurt. Right. I'm like, what, what are you thinking? And I was also mad at her for not believing more in herself. What I'm thinking like, yeah, it's so hard. So amazing. What is wrong with you? You know, this is me at that time. Um,

We don't talk for a couple of months. The holidays rolls around Thanksgiving. And my father said, you know, listen, enough of this. You know, we're not figured out. So I called her.

And she was getting her nails done, much like us with the clarinet. It was our common thread. She's like, I'm getting manicure. And I was like, OK. And we just start talking. And then we come home for the holidays and she's still with this person and he's there. And I don't say anything to him, really. He didn't say anything to me. And we go on about our way. Fast forward, not very long from that time.

My mother calls me on a Sunday and she's like, just crying and wailing. And she said, Renata is dead. And I'm like, what? And she said, call your father. And I'm like, mom, pull over. I call my dad. And my dad has always said that, you know, from his point of view, he always called me his kid of right. Like he always says of all my siblings, I was going to try to be the level headed one. He said to me,

very calmly because my dad was in the military and he's got two purple hearts and he's seen it all. And he said, baby call and see what's going on. What happened there? I said, okay. And I called my sister's house and the person was there and he said, the police are there. And I said, the police are there. He said she was found in her pool.

face down and they don't know what happened. And I think, you know, she was drinking maybe and she said, you know, all this, you know, had a local news friend and I called a friend and I said, what's going on? And he said, well, the police are there and they believe it's not an accident. And so I was like, okay. And, you know, we started the process and the investigators at the time told us that

that they did not have enough evidence to charge someone or got to get the DA to charge someone. But they believed that strongly that the individual who was in the home was the person responsible. She had blunt force impact to the back of her head. And there were other signs there that this was not an accident. Her dog who she affects many me because she had this like blonde hair and her dog was kind of blonde was there. And

You know, some of the details I don't need to get into, but it was a violent act. And so, yeah, we proceeded on. And in the process, I never talked about it, Jenny, ever. My family, we kind of just, you know, forbid him from having contact with my family. We kind of moved forward. We laid my sister to rest. And then I'm in New York. It's 2008.

And I was invited to speak at an event, a random event. I'd just gotten here and I was at the Today Show. And at the time, they will invite you to host things. You know, people like, oh, Jenny, can you host this? I got an invitation to host an organization that helps young people understand how to love healthy.

And then I shared my sister's story. And that was the start of me becoming an advocate for survivors of domestic violence and speaking more about from the lens of a family member of how to support without judgment. Because at the time I judged,

And now I have the tools and the understanding that I try to offer to other people. Through your tragedy, you're helping other people. That's beautiful. I just, how do you find closure when there is none? Because that her, her case was never solved. You know, for me, I think, well, my father passed broken heart of for so long trying to help her, right?

My sister battled substance abuse in her past. She was not in that state when she was killed, but her younger years. So we always worried about

You know, this notion that people will blame a victim. And I think that's also part of why we stayed silent. Nobody deserves that fate. And certainly no one deserves as a victim to have everything about you dragged into a space of judgment when you are not there to defend yourself. So I think for us, because the investigators were so clear and we understood everything

what happened. I think our view of justice changed. I think what we saw was a just thing for us was to help other people, you know, hunting someone down or I've never even done a show on it, to be honest with you, because it's just not that space. We've done shows on domestic violence and my sister's

youngest son came on the show because we are committed to helping families. But we've never approached it from this lens of, okay, this is a whodunit because from the point of view of the investigators, they felt they knew and that was enough for us.

Is that when you started your interest in writing the novels that you've written, the crime novels? Oh, yeah. You know, because I was a journalist for 30 years. Yes, you are. Oh, gosh. The first part of my career was I was a reporter on the street with Bryan College Station, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Fort Worth. The novel that I wrote was

The Jordan Manning series, honestly, was inspired by my years of being a crime reporter, not related to my personal life.

family search situation. It was just, I felt like people didn't really know what happens when you're a crime reporter. And then I thought I wanted her to be this colorful character. I grew up loving Nancy drew novels. That was my whole bed. It was like, it was, if you didn't find Oreo cookies, you found Nancy. And so I thought it would be fun to have this female protagonist that was a crime solving journalist. And I thought that it would, you know, I wanted a little mix of, uh,

sex in the city and waiting to exhale. I just wanted her to be this fun, but intense person that you want on your side, like a bloodhound, right? And so that came, and I wrote those, Jenny, in the pandemic by the

you know, the second or third time I was going to just leave my husband for not breaking down the Amazon boxes, you know, we're all done in and I'm like, okay, buddy, one more Amazon box, not opening. You're out of here. So let me harness this into something more positive. So I started to write the Jordan Manning crime series. I was, I fell asleep watching ESPN or he fell asleep. And the next thing I know, I was like, Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning, her name, Jordan Manning. There it is. You know? And so I love that. I,

would go out on this little deck that we have in Sag Harbor and online and I just write and I'd get up with my coffee. I felt very Stephen King. It's like old and I had my little writer's costume and my coffee and evergreens. Meanwhile, because we couldn't do anything else. We're stuck.

And so I wrote that series. And then my cookbook, my dad loved to cook. My grandfather loved to cook. And I happened to be best friends with a James Beard Award winning culinary producer who's a recipe writer. And so I was like, did I pick you? And we became best of friends. We're sisters. And so proud of our book because that cookbook

Again, it's 72 phenomenal recipes and she's the best at recipe writing in the business. But we, when the publishers looked at the marketplace, we were the only cookbook with a white woman and a black woman.

And the only cookbook with a straight woman or identify straight and LGBTQ. And I thought, wow, going back to our clarinet story, you know, music is a common thread. Food is a common thread. And that was such an enjoyable and fun project to do with Lish styling. She's from Wisconsin. I'm from Texas. And we would joke that even now, if you see the cover of our book, we have the same haircut. So all things really just like what, you know, like your podcast and the things you've created, we are lucky to

have lived long enough to have stories and live long enough to be able to understand them and why they are, why it's good to share them. Right. Sharing something that that is so important to you and you're so passionate about. It's such a no brainer to share.

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When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones. I just answered a few questions online, and Talkspace matched me with a therapist.

We meet when it's convenient for me, and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up, and they accept TRICARE. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including TRICARE. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military. Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today. That's Talkspace.com slash military.

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Ow goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Hmm.

Mmm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out-of-his-element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And, as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup.

Take a big whiff, my bra. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. September, 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars, in just five hours. Okay, we're rolling. One, two...

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s. Their past behind them. But they also have some unfinished business. The end of Daybreak, Eyes of Love was supposed to have been followed up by another album. It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances.

Listen to Soul Incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So from the mystery novels to the cookbook and now a children's book. I know, right? I know. You guys, you have to pick up this book. It's called Harlem Honey, The Adventures of a Curious Kid.

And your son is the star of the book. Yeah, well, you know, he's inspired. This little boy happens to be named Moses as my son. He's in first grade and he's just moved from Texas to New York, specifically Harlem. And I really wanted to talk about...

You know, this idea of new places and new faces. I said when I wrote the Jordan Manning series, it was during the pandemic. You know, our lives all shut down. My son wasn't one years old yet. Honestly, Jenny, I I had my I got pregnant at forty eight.

I have hosted morning shows for 30 years. I've probably interviewed every child book author on how to raise a kid. But, you know, until you're on the team, you don't know how to play the sport. It's like now I'm on the team and it's a global pandemic. I didn't even know that you take them off formula to play.

milk, if that's your choice or whatever, they go, it ends after. I'm like, wait, what? I felt like they stayed on formula for like two years and I didn't breastfeed. So I'm really like, wait, what? And it's a global pandemic and I can't get food. And I'm like, oh my goodness, the whole thing changed. So those are the things that were my focus just the day to day. And then

You know, we were inside of our home. It really gave me this opportunity to be there with my son that I would not have had. So first steps, things that I would have missed had I been in the studio, I got a chance to see firsthand. And we grew so close when things reopened and he was invited to his first birthday party. He was hiding in the corner.

Like this guy in the car, he's Mr. Razzle Dazzle. He's Mr. Talkity Talk. And we get to the birthday party. His hands are sweaty. He's next to me. He won't leave. And I'm like, OK. But I understand it's a birthday. It's overwhelming. Things happen. But then again and again in different circumstances. And then we would come home from this scary situation and he'd talk all about it.

He knew what everyone wore, everything said, the music that was played. He was just, so I realized that this was a kid who was observing, but was afraid to get in. He wanted it. Didn't have that. I can tell you, I debate whether it was because we were inside for a long time or that's his natural personality as it was mine.

I don't know, but how do I address it? What do I do became the priority, not the what happens, right? And so I started to talk to other parents who talked about kids who present shy or the reality that we all do. And that on the other side of fear is often something so fun. So this is a book that talks about

through curiosity and kindness how you can face your fear the backdrop is half texas half harlem new york but in truth

The first outside experience all of our children have is not a school. It's the neighborhood. So Harlem is his neighborhood, but it's meant to represent whether you have a tiny community or you're walking out your door to 90210, whatever it is, your first exposure outside of the intimacy of your family home is your neighborhood.

And so we use music, we use food, we use kindness and curiosity as this way for adults to talk to kids about how you face that fear and what fun you can find on the other side. Yeah. And the through line too is also back to connection. What we were talking about before is realizing how you are connected to everything around you if you just take a look. Yeah.

And it's true. And it's a reminder, you know, when I was writing this book, and even now we still read it, my son's going to go on tour with me. And he's actually preparing for his first school musical. I mean, we went from a few years ago, a kid who would not, you know, participate in a birthday party. He's orange crayon number three in the upcoming musical. Wow.

May the crayons quit. Oh my gosh. He's ready to sing. He's singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow. And it's so funny. We were watching the Oscars and he has no idea who Ariana Grande is. And we're at dinner and the Oscars are on. He looks up and he's like, what is she singing? Who is this thing?

song he i think he thought it was his song and i said his original ariana grande he's like who and then i said that's the oscars mom what's the oscars so after his musical i'm gonna get like a little fake oscars made for him so i could give him his oscar once he gets done with it on at the end of the month but you know he's now learned that facing his fear can

inspire other things. Right. And so he really was my test subject in this. And we have there, we still have moments where he says, mom, I don't want to go in. I'm not ready, you know, or he'll say that. And I'm okay with that. He has to be able, he he's walked into, as you know,

You are an international star. I host a talk show. Our kids are part of our world, but they're not part of our world. Right. And so with him, I even debated naming the character after him because he's a very distinct name, Moses, right? He's not the original Moses, but he is a Moses. Yeah.

People see him and they say Moses and they're excited because they're excited for me being a 48 year old first time mom at the time. That can be a lot for a kid to take in. But in his own daily life, you know, we went to he asked me to go to see Kids Bop live. He loves Kids Bop. He's all about. And we got tickets and we took him to New Jersey. He was absolutely crazy.

terrified. Like we get there and he's like, wait, this is way bigger than I expected. This is way different than I expected. And he wanted to leave. And my instinct, you know, was like, let's get in this car. We're going to go right back home. But I couldn't do that. I was like, you know, okay, let me breathe. Because how I react to this is how he reacts. If I keep pushing, get in there, get in the seat, that's going to add resistance, right? So, okay, I

I said, well, whenever you're ready. And then the show started. He starts to hear familiar song. I see the side look.

you know, that wanting to be in behavior and physical change. And before I know it, he's in the seat. We're dancing. We're having a good time. He's, you know, at the kids' spot, they vote on which finale song and his finale song, I forget which one he wanted, didn't get. He's like, they didn't get my song. You know, he's invested in it and he's having a great time. He's now on basketball and he goes on Sundays. I'm so happy the first time he went first, please, not the first time, maybe the first week, you know,

He had no parts. He sat there on the side and he looked and didn't want. And I said, you know, you love Jalen Brunson. You love the Knicks to my dismay being from Dallas. I want him to love the Mavericks, but he loves the Knicks. Um,

And then this week, the class was the last day. And this coach, this female coach who was there at the beginning, came back for their little ceremony or whatever. And she pulled my husband over to the side and she said, oh, I can't believe, look at this kid. Look at him. I mean, he's like dribbling with right hand, left hand. He's like having a great time. He needed to have that time. The book is also a reminder of,

I hope to adults, really something that I think we have learned and are learning every day, how precious patience is with ourselves, giving ourselves that time, but also giving

Our kids, you know, how easy is it to say, okay, we're going to go to dinner. Hurry, put your socks on. Okay. You can't get your socks. Let me put it on for you. It's delaying them putting their socks on. Let me put the thumbs in to pull the sock up and we got to go. We got to go. So I'm going to put this on for you.

You know, we think it's helping, but if we can, and by the way, baking in that time to watch them put their socks on. I mean, we like danced around the first time we're tackling shoe tie now. It's like, oh my God.

Those are the exhilarating, beautiful sensations that we deserve too. Yeah. I mean, that message is so important. And I was going to say that before it, by you having that kind of patience and talking about those moments in your real life with your son, that will help other people to regain some patience because it's really easy to

to be impatient. Listen, I'm a work in progress. You know, I am a blank canvas with a little bit of the sketch on it because I have to do it for myself all the time. You know, I, yeah, and it is, we know the value of it. We know it is priceless, right? But we fall prey to it. You know, sometimes we'll go to a restaurant and

My son will, you know, he's staring around. Well, we've gone to restaurants for 50 years of our lives. First time this kid has walked into this environment, been in this environment. And yes, we want them to behave accordingly. We want them to be little perfectly mannered children who go to the seat and put their, they just walked into a whole restaurant. Yeah. This is all new for them. It's all new for them, you know? Yeah.

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I am all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive,

clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

ParaconeMD works as hard as I do, and it shows. Go to ParaconeMD.com and use code JENNIE for an exclusive 40% off for a limited time. That's ParaconeMD.com, code JENNIE, J-E-N-N-I-E. This is Rob Parker from The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. The Toyota Tundra and Tacoma are designed to outlast and outlive.

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We'll be right back.

Stay ahead of the pack with available off-road features like Crawl Control or break out your tunes with the available portable JBL speaker. Toyota trucks are built to last year after year, mile after mile. So outlast every adventure and outlive the moment. Buy a Tundra or a Tacoma today. Vendor.

Visit buyatoyota.com, Toyota's official website for deals. Or stop by your local Toyota dealer to find out more. Toyota, let's go places.

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers, all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones.

I just answered a few questions online and Talkspace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up and they accept TRICARE. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couples therapist through Talkspace too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including TRICARE. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military.

Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today. That's Talkspace.com slash military.

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How? Go slower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Hmm.

Mmm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out-of-his-element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And, as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup.

Take a big whiff, my bra. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. September, 1979. Virginia's top prison band, Edge of Daybreak, is about to record their debut album, Behind Bars, in just five hours. Okay, we're rolling. One, two.

I'm Jamie Petras, music and culture writer. For the past five years, I've been talking to the band's three surviving members. They're out of prison now and in their 70s. Their past behind them.

but they also have some unfinished business. The end of daybreak, eyes of love, was supposed to have been followed up by another apple. It's a story about the liberating power of music, the American justice system, and ultimately, second chances. Listen to Soul Incarcerated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of all new for you, I really want to talk about

your choice to become a mom at 48. I'm really interested in that because I was there rooting for you the whole time. And I remember when you got pregnant, I remember seeing you pregnant and I had already loved you from the today show. Yeah. And so I was just rooting you on and like, it was such a big deal. She's pregnant at 48. You know, it was, I'll tell you,

If I had not lost that job, I don't think I would have had my son. It was the first time I've worked since I was 14. My very first job was Toys R Us. I still have my first paycheck, you know, my little stub because I was like, what? They take out stuff? What is this? You

You still have it. That's so great. Years later, I've worked since I was 14. I've never been fired in my life. I was always a high achieving person, you know, before once my dad gave me that challenge, my value became what I saw as my value was work, you know, because you can lose that. And even at age 18, a dear friend's mom gave me a book and one of the chapters said, whoever

Who are you if there's no title beneath your name? I'm 18. That means nothing to me. I don't even think about it. Fast forward age 46. Oh boy, that book, A Path of Light, that's been sitting on my bedside or whatever since I was 18 suddenly makes sense now.

And it was the first time that I said, you know what, I'll be okay if I am not on a TV show. I'll be okay if I'm not a reporter. I'll figure this out, you know, and whatever aspirations of, you know, being on a national news show, it didn't matter to me. I left the show. It was important for me to take that stand for myself, you

I, at the time, did not have a child. I was my backup plan. So trust me, I'm looking at the ATM and the numbers are not numbering, but I was going to figure it out. Right. I was like, no, I didn't. My parents didn't have a gold bars buried somewhere. I was on my own. My mother's big contribution was to tell me I could move back to my room. And I was like, it's not going to happen, but thank you for the offer. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. You know, and during the time of trying to figure out this next act in my life, I, I

got an offer to have a show executive produced by Harvey Weinstein

That day felt like the best day of my life, right? Oh my gosh, I've gone from being invisible in this workspace to speak to this guy. This is the guy that everyone talks to. This is the guy, right? And thinking, wow, big breaks do happen. Wonderful. And now I'm kind of back into the identity, right? I'm about to be a talk show host. I'll hear my title. It's back. And then one day I got a call that

His name was being mentioned along the lines of the word. The person actually said the R word. And I said, retirement? Because I have no idea. And they said- Unfortunately, no. Yeah, exactly. And I said, what? Now everything is like, I had at the time already met my now husband because when I agreed to-

executive producer show with Harvey Weinstein, there were a lot of like just ebbs and flows and just things that were happening. Now I know he was under investigation, but there were these inconsistencies that made me not feel certain. Nothing behaved really toward me, but just like, so just weird energy, you know, when you're like this weird energy around here and I didn't know what it was.

and i remember throwing myself this pity party because i was in la and as you know when you go into business with someone you reach an agreement they're going to give you x amount of dollars to hold exclusive rights to whatever you're doing so it's like a holding fee or whatever and he was slow on that payment and i'm like i need my money here's my money what's going on here so now i'm feeling like oh this guy sold me a bill of goods and this show's never going to happen and i'm sad sad sad

And then I went out to the pool at the Sunset Marquee. I was actually supposed to stay at another hotel because I told my travel agent at the time, I want to stay where there are like guys. I want somewhere with a cute bar because I'm single and I am ready to date and, you know, move on my life. He puts me up at a hotel and everyone there is like a 20 year old rapper. And I'm like, what do you guess 20 year olds are rappers? This is not my scene. Not my scene. No.

So he put me up at Sunset Marquis only because he's like, it's a great hotel. I was like, all right, fine. Because I'd given up on dating at that point. Now, between the last hotel and the five minutes, I was like, wow. That was the deal breaker for you. So I'm in the room. I throw myself a proper pity party. And then I went to the hotel pool. I had like, I put a one piece on. So clearly I wasn't trying to bring any kind of A game. I was done at that point. So I go to the pool.

And I woke up and walking toward me is Steven. And we'd run into each other many times at different events. He, you know, he's in the music business. He's a manager. He's worked with a lot of people and he sat down and we started talking. And I think because I didn't have,

I just kind of got into this effort moment with work and all of this. I saw this person and we're just talking. And then we started arguing over who has the best pizza in New York. And he's like, I'm a New Yorker. I know. And then we agree to go on like a pizza showdown. It was nothing elaborate. It was no like it was pizza.

And when I was back in New York, lo and behold, it turns out he had a place a few blocks from mine. I'm like, wait, what? This is interesting. And we started to hang out. And a couple of weeks later, we moved in. And I'm furious as we were talking. That's why I laugh when you said it on my show about you like, oh, the weeks. I'm like, wait, oh, that's funny. So within a few weeks, we start dating and then going to the point that you asked me,

My husband had no children and he said he always wanted children. He had his own childhood journey that was complicated and complex, and he just never thought he was going to be a dad or that he had the skills to be a dad based on how he was raised. And then I said, well, you know, I love to

Look into this, you know, this concept of us being parents is we're here now. And I think that not having the pressure of the job had allowed me to give my body grace. Had I had a lot less stress, a lot less stress.

Just everything. I felt a lot less ick about myself, to be honest. I've never shared that with anybody. But I went through that phase of just feeling ick. It's like, this is not. It sounds like a real transitional time for you and so much uncertainty. Yeah. But I love that you are at by the pool and just letting it happen. I love.

all hang out in an unattractive one piece. Yeah. And then this is what comes to you. Yeah. And it came to me. It really did. And the right person at the right time under the right circumstances. And for me, for me, you know, and we went through multiple rounds of IVF, multiple. And there were, you know, some

hard truths. And one day I was driving and I saw this sign that talked about adoption. And I thought that was an epiphany. I was like, Oh, this is it. This is it. I should, you know, this is the route. I'm not going to do this anymore. This is the route. And I wasn't angry. It wasn't resigned. It wasn't like, Oh, I'll just adopt. It wasn't that it was like, Oh, this is the sign. Like when I went to the pool, it wasn't a negative or positive. It was a sign. And yeah,

Got a call that things were looking good. And then we taped my pilot for the talk show that next morning. And I got a call early that morning that we in fact were

I was pregnant. Wow. Timing. I still kept that outfit. It was crazy. So I'm walking out of my pilot. I remember your pilot. I remember the first time. Pilot. And I am, I'm pregnant and I'm just like, wow. And, you know, we kept it private for 32 weeks because I was a geriatric pregnancy. I didn't know what that meant. Uh, and also I wasn't on daily TV yet and I wanted to protect my relationship. My husband, um,

I wanted to protect my sanity. As you know, people will, you tell someone you're pregnant and they're like, oh boy, your marriage is going to be hard. You tell someone you're going to marry, oh boy, marriage is hard. And I get that sentiment of why people do it. We're kind of just trained. It's like a rote thing to say. Right, right. But I am more conscious than ever of how I respond to whatever someone is sharing with me. Right. And I wanted to just enjoy it. And then we got a call from,

32 weeks in, my team call and said, oh, there's a tabloid that's about to say you're pregnant. I'm like, what? And what happened was I reserved our maternity room and you have to do it under your name. And someone had told someone and they called our team. You almost made it. Almost made it. Almost made it. And it was funny because at the time that Baby Shark song was...

Like, and so I ran, I, I got this like stretchy dress I had. And I and I, my husband's like, what are we gonna do? What are you gonna do? I was like, gonna do baby shark. And then I had the book in front of my belly. And and I was like, do do do do do do do. And then I removed the book. And then it's like a baby. And then it was like, people magazine, you know how it goes after that. Yeah, you know, I'm but I think fast forward, when I look at that, as I said,

the loss became a win and not with the talk show, right? It became a win in love. Anyways, I think I became a more present friend. I think sometimes my conversations were one sided. And I know talk show hosts are just born that way to have one sided conversation. Yeah, much. But I just got a chance to catch up with my friends and not talk about work. And I know that

work is what provides the lives that we have. So I'm not, I grew up very, very poor. So I'm not going to be that person to say, but it doesn't matter. But it doesn't, it's not the total sum of happiness or our journey. I've been on both sides of the conversation and it's about perspective of what it brings and what you can use it to do good and help others. It's a complicated conversation, but I,

But I recognize that having that break from work gave me love, time. It gave me my child in so many ways. And it gave me a rebirth, which was the show. Wow. Back with a wealth of...

things I feel to offer that I didn't have before. In your late 40s. I mean, I was just talking with Yvette Nicole Brown, and she just got married for the first time. Yes, she met. Oh, wait, wait. Their date that he took her on to the theater happened right after she came on my show last year. Oh, lucky. I kind of take responsibility for it. Yes, you should. You absolutely should. But

but just like talking about how society's timeline, just because you do things later in life, it doesn't mean that you are less deserving of love or motherhood or anything. I mean, how have you felt about your experience with motherhood in this chapter of your life being, you know, an older mom, like you said, you were a geriatric pregnancy. And it just hit me hard. No, I'm sorry. I just, I think it's amazing. I love it. Um, no, I, I gotta tell you, um,

Wisdom has been an interesting thing for me lately. For so long, a lot of young women, not just with the pregnancy, but with the career rebirth. Oh my God, I look up to you. And I didn't know how to accept that. Not that I felt like they were saying that I was old. I just never felt wise. I never felt like I was like, really me? I can relate. I just like, ah, you know, okay, well, thanks. I don't know what I did, you know? Or when people say, you're so courageous. I'm like, well, what was I going to do? You know? And so,

I've recently tried to step out of body and understand what they see. Oh my gosh. I've been doing the same thing, Tamron. That's where I'm like, it must be our age. If I'm about to turn 53. It's our age because I've like, I got to step out of this to understand what they see. Yes. And it's not about running away from age. I just still see myself as this person.

Trying to figure it out, you know, like, yeah, you know, and and so with being a mom, of course, I've had some exercise on what would I have been at 27, 30? And I can't conceptualize it because I just don't can't live in that space. But I have been so honored that not just late to the party parents, as I call us.

But like women in their 30s talk to me more openly about freezing eggs. You know, Dulce Sloan from Daily Show, she came on and she talked about like, and we've become friends off camera. And she says,

You know, freezing her eggs, she felt shame because it somehow made her feel like she wasn't going to get it right or whatever, you know. And Ashanti just married Nellie and just had her first child at 43. And she'd frozen her eggs when they were broken up. She's like, I didn't even know we would rekindle. But she knew she possibly wanted this part. But she felt shame.

Right. So much shame attached to this, right? We are in this, you know, I have a girlfriend that I love dearly. And she one day said to me, with shame, and I could hear her voice, I never want to be a mom. She said, Tamron, it's not in me. I haven't had any trauma. I had a great mom. I had a great dad. I just don't want it. Okay. And I said, okay, right? You know, and that's so there's so much shame is surrounded with you do or you don't. Right.

So for me, I have become more aware of womanhood and motherhood being two different journeys and supporting my female friends on the womanhood journey and understanding that my motherhood journey means something to my other friends. And so I guess I'm in that space now, but when I look at

the parent I am now, and I look at the age I am now, I think again, it's like that book, Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. I think I've had enough time to know the bull. Things don't frazzle me as much as they used to. I do care what people think. We all do to some degree, but I have it in greater perspective of it.

And even, you know, when I was writing this book, you know, Harlem Honey really was not me saying, let me just put my name on something so I can get a check or da-da-da-da-da. Right, right. It means something to me. I have, I'll try not to cry here, but the two oldest living relatives I have are both in, they're in their chapters, perhaps of goodbye. It's an uncle who has been

just a champion for my mom and me. And it's my aunt who, when my mom's mom died when she was 10, I was much older. She's much older than my mom. And my mother tells the story of her bringing her clothes, you know, to get ready to go to school in and being a big sister, but also a mother figure at the same time. So it's our patriarch and our matriarch of our family.

And my mom is now a few days from 75. And she said, yeah, one day she's very virile. She's going on cruises and all this other stuff. But she says to me, it goes so fast. I knew her at 19. I knew when she was a baby who set out on this adventure and this journey with faith and belief that she could somehow figure out this better life for her and her kid. And I'm the result of that. And so now at 19,

54. you know i don't say this to chastise the youth or to imply that they don't know or you don't know my nephew's 27 he calls for advice all the time he's like my kid you know it goes fast and and when you can learn that a lot of the crap that people tell you really doesn't matter

It fills up a lot of head space, though. It fills up the head. And so it prevents creativity. It blocks you from love. Sometimes it blocks you from loving yourself. Oh, yeah. It sometimes blocks you from just living your life. You know, I have an 18-year-old niece who I adore.

And she'll probably see this interview and wag her finger at me. But she's, you know, I love this kid. And she's not sure what she wants to do. You know, and everybody's like, you got to do this. You got to do that. Got to do this. Got to do that. Got it. And it's like, set aside your social media, just societal pressures. Like the tell you got to figure all of this out by 18th.

What? It's ludicrous. I feel you because my youngest daughter is 18, and I feel there's so much pressure. It's so unfair. And I know we can point a straight line to social media, but before then, people were like, got to go to college, got to get in debt, got to get...

And then you do all that at 18. And then by 40, it's like, okay, now you got a whole nother. It's like, we just fill our headspace with this stuff. And so being Michelle Obama was on my show one day, she was talking about menopause and she said, you know, it's a blessing to get that far, you know? Right. You know? And so whether it's that change in life or the change that allows you to recognize that

If you consume your headspace with the views of others, you will never find your path.

That takes time. That comes with age. I didn't have to be 27. I thought I did. I didn't know anything. And I'm okay that I didn't. I'm okay that I did not know how dangerous it was to drive 1,528 miles with a dog and a map by myself. I'm okay with not knowing that I did like crime at the time. I would have been like, girl, stay home. You know, there's a certain amount of fearlessness that comes with that.

I think fearlessness in the 20s brings perspective, I guess, for me in the 50s. I think that's a big part of it. Like we're able to step back, like you said, and like kind of widen the scope. Yeah. Like really widen and see it all. And also just really see our journey and have such this immense gratitude for the journey that we've been on.

And I think that just creates such a peace. And if, I mean, we all know that leading with gratitude every morning, thinking about what we're grateful for is going to set you up for success for the rest of the day. But this is just like full circle life coming back to great gratitude. I love that. And that's what I try to do, you know, before I get out of bed.

I literally will lie in bed and I want my first thoughts to be gratitude. I want the first thing that I say in my brain, right?

is something that is positive and grateful and, and an opportunity to start it that way versus some negativity about myself. You know, they always say, you say things to yourself, you would never say to someone else, you know, I want to start my day. It's like, it's, you know, the second best thing is coffee for me, right? It's like, I need, I need that, that, that

that thought of gratitude. And it's, it may be when you're, you know, younger, you kind of think, okay, this is what they're saying because they've had successful lives or did that.

My mother, again, was a 19-year-old single mother. And I believe she got to where she is now and raised the child that I am as an adult is because she led with gratitude. And that wasn't fame. That wasn't fortune. That was doubt. She could have led with shame. She could have led with, you know, why me's. She could have led with fear. But she grew up in a town where we didn't get a paved street until the 80s.

You know, she didn't have these things, but she had gratitude. So that is not it's not owned by a race. It's not owned by a gender. It's not owned by one socioeconomic group. It is afforded to us all. And I think the best of the journey is when you can fight the noise and lead with that.

Yes, so true. Before I let you go, Tamron Hall, what was your last I choose me moment? Oh, that's a great one. Oh, my last I choose me moment. Oh, it was this morning. So yesterday I had a very early morning and I had a very intimidating thing that I had to face and it took a lot of

Actually, that shy kid in me showed up yesterday and I had to deal with her and do this event that I wasn't prepared for. So this morning when it was time to wake up and get my son ready for school, I fought mom guilt as if one morning of not getting him ready versus his dad was going to somehow change the trajectory of his entire life and laid in bed.

And I didn't get up and I let my husband warm the carrot muffin and not that he wouldn't, but sometimes even when he's willing to willing when he does do it and he does it every morning with me, but I feel guilty if I'm not there. Like if I'm not, you know, giving the kids, you know, and

I was like, my kid knows he loves me and I love him and I'm going to stay in this bed. Have a good day, kiddo. Oh my God. That's a good one. Just stay in bed.

I stayed in bed and it was delicious and it was great. And now he is home and I can hear him and we'll go to Taekwondo and then I'm going to drop him at Taekwondo and then go to dinner with my husband. But yeah, yeah, I did. Cause he's, we fight that, right? We fight the fear of this light thing that I do will somehow spiral into my kid having a horrible life. That's just not true. And I didn't do it. So I chose that. I chose that.

It shows me to stay in the bed. Yeah. You needed to refuel. I did. I needed it and it felt great. Well, I've loved talking to you. Thank you so much for being on the pod. And I'm always here for you if you need a guest. Oh, well done. We're going to start practicing because we're I'm calling. Yes. They've never seen this coming. Two first chairs. Come on. Yeah.

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