Use A Wingwoman To Find Your Man
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Welcome back to I Do Part Two. I'm Kelly Ben-Simon, one of your celebrity mentors here on the pod. And I'm so excited because today I am joined with someone who's already been on the show. We loved getting to hear your story and how you're opening up about finding love again. It's Jana Kramer's best friend, Pamela. Pamela, I'm so excited to meet you.

We're live from iHeart Verbo podcast house at Bottle Rock. And wow, this place is incredible. We're in Villa Montebello, one of Verbo's vacation rentals of the year in 2024. And it's everything you could dream of. Seriously, the wine cave is insane. And if you want your own amazing vacation rental, download the Verbo app and check out their 2025 vacation rentals of the year. Trust us, you won't be disappointed.

So I mentioned that you were on the pod before and I was listening to all of your chats with Jana and you're incredible and so open and so gorgeous. Your Instagram is insane.

I just learned recently you're not supposed to use words like incredible and say all the words that I use that are my go-to's you're not supposed to use anymore. I saw the list and I'm like what other words are we supposed to use? I know so how am I supposed to say like wow

Well, let's just go rogue and just do whatever we want. Thank you, Pamela. I love that. I love that. So first of all, let's, for those who are listening, just a quick recap of, you know, where you are in your life. So you and Jana are best friends. You guys are neighbors. Yes. You built houses next to each other. Yes. And Jana may or not be babysitting your daughter right now. Yes. Okay. Okay.

It takes a village for sure. It takes an absolute village. I just counted. There were seven women involved in...

helping me take care of my kids for 48 hours just to be able to leave. How beautiful is that? That is amazing. But I mean, it's a lot, but it's still like, you know, a village and I don't know what I would do without that. So I raised my kids in New York City. I did not have that same village. There were 48 strangers, but they were not women that I knew. But anyway, my kids are fine. They're fine. You know,

Strangers are great. So that's amazing. And that's just so nice that you can come here and feel good because you are taking care of your children and working out and cooking and telling us everything on your Instagram, which I love.

I was feeling very insecure today. I was like, okay, do I do some pushups beforehand or should I just go to the gym or do I not eat? Always eat, please. That's what I'm trying to like tell every woman, you know, low calories is not the option. Right. And I think too, which you're such a great new role model to the pod because you're single, you're looking for love, but you're not like on the hunt. Right.

You are organically open to finding love. And like last night we were in the cave. How cool is that wine bar? Oh my gosh. Amazing. I know. I walked in there. I was like, this is so cinematic. Wasn't it? It was. Even the pictures made it look like that. I just was like, oh my God, this place is amazing. The food was incredible. We had so much fun. The table was like so fun. Like,

Everyone from Bachelor Nation, the Housewives. Well, and so many, yeah, different age groups and just different walks of life just all coming together. And couples that have been together for 15 years. You know, you and I are single. It's just like a fun mix of all these different people. And we had a really interesting conversation. And I loved what you said about meeting people.

And you said that when you meet people, you are open to a relationship, but, you know, and you have relationships for long periods of time. It's not like you're like in and out. Like some people, just the nature of the beast, because we have like all these apps and so much opportunity that we're meeting people and it's like going on one or two dates, but you're really like...

You want to be with someone, you want to get to know them and you want, you know, you, you're really looking for that person, but you're not like, okay, I'm just going to go on one or two dates and then fall in love. And yeah. Can you talk more about that? Sure. I mean, I think you have to be, you know, intentional, number one, and not just have like hopes for somebody's potential and really like hone in on, you know, what

truly like what is this person you know going to um like do for me and in return like what can I you know do for them to better their lives because at this point in our lives we have a lot of things we have careers we have our children we have homes we have this life that we've already built and so if we're gonna let somebody in and you know invest in that energy it has to be

Like the jackpot for me anyway. The jackpot. Did you guys hear that? Hashtag the jackpot. Pamela is telling us that's what we want. Maybe that should be the new app called the jackpot. I love that. She's like the jackpot. Mic drop. So when we're looking for that jackpot, is he a single dad? Would you ever consider dating anyone who is single, a single dad? Yeah.

I think ideally that would probably make the most sense because they truly understand that we're not going to be each other's main priority, like ever.

You know, I mean, it's your kids. And then I think yourself should then come next. Or maybe even yourself first, then your kids, right? Because if we're not, you know, mentally stable and we're not at peace, nobody is going to thrive. You know, and then it's like, then we're talking third place. And so if somebody can't understand that-

If somebody can't understand that, then it's going to be a little bit of a situation. Have you ever had a conversation with someone and been like, by the way, you're going to be third place? And what do they say? Well, if they're a single dad, they get it. They're in. They're like, freaking sign me up because this is exactly what they're thinking. And in hoping, I think most are hoping that

There are women out there that also, you know, think like that. And I think both men and women, we get like scared. You know, what if we don't give that person enough? Like, are they going to, you know, not want to us? Like, do we have to be this, you know, drop everything type of situation? And I don't think it has to be like that. And for me, it won't be like that or else I'm just not going to do it. I'm just going to like stay there.

in my happy, beautiful little life with my community and my village and my kids and my company and travel and be so, you know, so, so happy. I do believe that somebody can make me even happier and I'm super excited for that opportunity. And, you know, I mean, I visualize it. I'm like, you know, you get excited about it, but I'm also not going to romanticize something that's just not there. Yeah.

or that's not possible or that maybe somebody is not capable of. Okay. So what if they haven't been married before, but they do have kids? Oh, I don't care about that. Yeah. I don't care about that. And again, I say ideally would be a single dad, but I'm not closed off to somebody that's like super emotionally just in charge and understands that, you know,

I have kids and that's, you know, my main priority. I mean, I think that there are also like people out there that are so evolved in thinking like that and realize if they're getting into a relationship, you know, with a woman like that,

That that's just like not going to be the case. And I, I mean, the older we get, the older men get, the older women get, we want to do our own thing. Like we want the freedom to travel and to, you know, make our own decisions and not have to check in like, hey, I'm running to the store. I mean, you know, and so that's,

To have freedom like that, I think is the magic formula. I think a lot of times like the demise of relationships are the mundane and like these just, you know, daily things that kind of can get very boring if you're not spicing it up and making a conscious effort to, you know,

to really invest in your relationship. And you do that together because you have children together and you're married and this is what you kind of signed up for. And that's just like, you know, the societal norms.

But when you get out of a marriage and you're not in that like thing that everybody, you know, this normal, right, in quotes, relationship that everybody says that you're supposed to do X, Y, and Z, you have this abundance of freedom to like make your own rules and do whatever you want in that next relationship. And so that's where I'm at. Like, okay, like I'm going unconventional, right?

See, I've just been single for, you know, over 15 years. And then I went, I had that little blip. But it's funny when you're talking about the spicing it up. Like, I just want, like, my, like, love language is, like, the normalcy and the consistency and, like, having breakfast together and, like, making plans and, like, you know, are you going to the market? Do you want, you know, a coffee? Sure. Like, I...

That, I'm like creating. I do love that. That's beautiful. I'm from Rockford, Illinois. Your kids are older. Right. So you have that space. You have that capacity to give that. But I always, I wanted that when they were younger. See, I don't. I tried to create it. I was like, I raise my kids with a suburban urban lifestyle, whatever that means. I'm like, it's not like Meghan Markle. And I'm like,

I'm like, you know, I tried to like create this environment for them that was like every day, but then we were also living in this wild big city. And so I always like, that's, I think one reason why they are very like, and I don't want to say real, cause that's just sounds so, that's one of those weird words, but well-rounded. Thank you. So, yeah, but I guess,

I just always wanted that. I just always wanted that. I don't want the spice. I want the calm. Oh, I want the spice. I need... Oh, I just want the spice. Wait, I'm a Taurus. My name is Kelly. I'm a Leo. Oh, you're a Leo. So there we go. You are a Leo. Look at you. You're like, ooh. She's like queen of the jungle. And I think eventually, you know, I'll be 47 and my kids are nine and 11. And so...

they, it's a daily thing. There's sports like crazy. There's, they, they need me a lot right now. And so, you know, when we talk about the capacity, like what, what is it, how much do I have, you know, to give to somebody? And so I, and I'm selfish about the time I have with my kids because now I only have them 70% of the time.

So when I'm with them, it's very intimate. And it's like I drop everything so that I can really focus on that time. And I'm not saying that it can't overlap a little bit. But I think that I would more so be thinking like you when they get a little bit older and I have some...

And I'm also scaling my company and trying to build this, you know, empire too. Yes. Which is super important because I have to take care of myself and my kids. Right. Monetarily. So I need to do that, you know? I love that. But I get that. I love the simple thing. And when I say spice it up, I don't like to go out all the time. I don't do anything like that. I don't even really drink. It's not that that kind of spice, but it's like,

let's go and we'll meet here for a chill weekend, you know, and then we'll go here. And, you know, maybe it's like every other week when I don't have my kids, I go to where he lives. Every other week he comes for three days where I live. I mean, I think that's like the flexibility and that like unconventional approach

that I think would work best for me right now. And so I think subconsciously, that's why I don't really date in Nashville. I don't want you up in my backyard. I don't want you up in my backyard. Oh my God, I love that.

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So anytime I've dated anybody, they do not know. I've never involved them in any of it. They've never met anybody. And I just try to stay like compartmentalized those two things right now. And that's not going to be forever. And there probably wasn't anybody that was, you know, worth them meeting. But they just can't wait. Right.

Yeah. They want all of these other step, you know, brothers and sisters. And they're like very specific on what they want. They want older brothers and sisters. Yeah. They want that whole crew. You know, it's interesting because like my kids would be like when they were younger, I would say I want a family for my family. And I've always wanted that. I told you that before. And my kids would be like,

Okay. What does that mean? Do we have to share with people your time? Now they're just like, mom, we just want you to like have a friend because like you're like bothering us. And there's only so much aloe we can buy together. Like we need to have your own friend. And so they're sweet. And they're obviously older now. They're 24 and 27. But yeah,

It's just, isn't it like, I would never tell my mom. I can't even imagine telling my mom like, oh, you should do this. I never told my mom she should do anything. I just reported for duty, whatever she told me to do, I did. Well, and my mom was divorced twice. So she divorced my dad when I was like four and then she got remarried, then got divorced again. So I mean, I've kind of like went through her whole process

like evolution of dating. Were you younger? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when she, I was, I think 14 when she divorced my stepdad. So like right in the height of, you know, high school and adulthood and trying to like figure all of that out. And then she's simultaneously trying to figure out. And I look back and, you know, she was like my age, even younger. Yeah.

When she was going through that second divorce. And so you look at that situation differently now that I'm going through it. And you really just, yeah, your heart almost breaks for her. Do you guys talk about that? Are you guys close? Yeah, she really helped me. And honestly, because I saw her go through it and because I saw her just crush life and build and build

build her life after these two divorces, I think that helped me know that I could do it also. Do you have siblings? I have a brother. Yeah. Is he older or younger? 18 months younger. Okay. Oh, so he's like a twin, like me. I have a twin brother, an actual twin brother though. Oh, you do? But isn't it interesting when you have that close, like opposite sex, how it's kind of like how you...

see relationships differently or you respect the opposite sex differently when you have that yeah that's so nice that you're so sweet about your mom thank you I mean I had a great mom but I didn't have that kind of connection with her I mean again it was like reporting for duty I just well she but to also say because she was you know and back then I mean in the 80s it it

The divorce was so different. The child custody was so different. It was like, I got to see my dad every other weekend. It's not like that anymore. Well, I mean, for most people, it's not really like that anymore. And so she was really like the main one, you know, that, and so our relationship was great, but she,

all my friends, my mom's my best friend. It wasn't like that with my mom and I, because she had to almost keep it a little bit separate. She was the mom, she was the disciplinarian. So it wasn't like we were best friends. Right. And I think that that's actually better when there is kind of a buffer between a parent and a child. I know it's difficult now with there's so much divorce, but I just feel that

Sometimes when my friends are like, we're best friends, I'm like, okay, so you guys shop together or you have lunch together, but that doesn't mean that you're asking her advice or his advice. Because just like the maturation process is different and what they're going through and what you went through and how their experiences are just totally different. So I mean, my kids always like kind of wanted to know and I gave them enough information so they felt included.

but not enough that where they were like, they felt responsible. Yeah. No. And I think that's responsible on your end. And I think that, you know, well, because I don't know. I'm like, I think people are oversharing with their little kids, especially. And I just, I,

I'm just not going to do that. And I, I just say, you know, mommy is so happy. You guys like literally full of joy. I have everything. And so when, when that does happen and it will, I know that I'm not gonna, you know, not have a significant of other or a lover, you know, that's so intense, like for the rest of my life, I know that. And so when I,

When I get there and it's appropriate, like you will be the first to know. And I will be so excited to tell you. But right now, you know, mommy has nothing to tell you.

Mama's got a great bod. She's cool. She's got great friends. She's all set. Speaking of being all set and having a great bod and of like, you know, what you, what, I mean, obviously every guy wants to date you clearly, but what about you? What are you attracted to? I think this is the fun part. And I think that so many women in our situation focus on like the hard, right. In the, in the negative and like how, you know, it's a jungle out there. And, and,

For me, I have embraced it where this is like Pamela in 2.0 version of what I like. So what I liked my whole earlier life

has clearly not worked out for me, right? So let's paint that picture. So what, like what, just like quickly, like what were you interested in or attracted to? And what are you now? So we can get a picture. Well, I'm still figuring it out. But what I've been, my past, yeah, my past, I think it was always, you know, like very athletic things.

bigger, tall, maybe like more alpha males. Like a lot of ego. She's like tall, finance, guy, jock. Ego. Perfect. A lot of ego there. Probably like not vulnerable enough. Right. And then I don't think I required enough from them because I probably saw that they...

couldn't give that, then I just thought that that was the norm. And what do you, I mean, I'm not your therapist and I don't play one on TV, but what do you, why do you think that you were attracted to someone who wasn't giving you enough? I know, right? Like let's unpack it. I mean, I'm still unpacking it. Yeah. I think I was really just like attracted to like the shiny, hot,

Yeah. We're also a Leo now that we know your star sign. We know that you're a Leo, so you're probably like, I can handle it. You just do you. I can handle you. That's the thing. Not that I know anything about star signs. Don't ever, anyone ever ask me about a star sign because I have no idea. That's the thing. I mean, I was in my mind happy though with these men because I just take it upon myself to find my own happiness too. Like I don't just look at,

getting that from somebody. So I always had a million friends. I was always doing my own thing. I was always growing my career. I was always working. And so I really wasn't like just looking, you know, for somebody to make me happy. But when I look back, I

they were really giving not much, like at all. Right. And so now you want someone that's more empathetic, more loving. I need vulnerable. How do you find a vulnerable guy? I've found them. I've actually found two men. I've actually found some that may be a little bit too much. Oh, God, no. Oh, my God, please don't. But I've found, because I'm not even...

accepting anything less than that. And so I've definitely found them. I think that it's a little bit of digging, right? It's like, you know, you can tell by messages and like questions, you can tell. See, I'm like a one word answer kind of person. Like I'm chatty with you, but when I'm writing, I'm like, great, fun. Looks good. Like I'm kind of like an AI person.

Well, I think it's like, you know, they're willing to share things. And that is the cool part about being this age is we have a lot of depth.

We've all been through a lot. Yeah. And so I think there is a lot to unpack and talk about. And if you're going to act like everything's roses all the time and not really dig in, I'm not really interested. I feel like it's kind of like the new version of trauma bond where in your late 30s, 40s, and 50s,

Because you're saying, like to your point, we have so much more experience. And so now when someone says something, like I can empathize. Like if this were 10 years ago, I would be like, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Like why are you telling me this? No.

No, we have no idea until you go through it. Until you go through it. And so it's just, I mean, it makes it, I'm actually more interested to hear like how they're navigating things or how they dealt with their ex-wives or all those, you know, obviously in positive ways. I don't want to hear the negativity. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I'm like not into that. But, you know, I really, it makes me feel more connected to them versus just like being like,

Do you want to give dinner? Sure. Do you like red wine? Yeah. Do you want pasta? No. Like, you know, this temple? No. Stuff like that. No. And it's so, yeah, I think it could be so much more deep and so much more beautiful, actually. Because if you think about like, you know, when you're younger and you're just trying to write, like find your husband and you're in the first stage of all of that and you're out and, you know, you're with your friends and that's all that you really need.

You have so much time to do that. You have so much time to find that person. That's all everybody's doing. They're just out and about. There's not a ton of responsibilities. That's like your goal on most people. That's their progression. They're going to find their husband. They're going to have kids. They're going to buy the house. I mean, that's the stage that they're at. We're not at that stage. And we don't even have as much time.

As we did then. So it's like, you almost kind of got to get to it. Yeah. Right. And pack quickly because I got to go bring a carry on bag because I don't have time for your whole luggage. I think this is the best. I don't have time for your Louis Vuitton trunk. I think this is the best quote. Like, you know, you, you start to like, you have to, you know, ask those questions. Don't jump into things too quickly. So it's like you hire slowly and you fire fast. Oh,

So you're, you start to ask those questions, right? Like you get, you're kind of like in research mode, you're exploring, you're asking all these questions, but you're asking the hard and the right questions. You're getting all your information. When women immediately after like one day, they're like, I'm in love. He's the man. He is no girlfriend. You're it's not, it's not. And so it drives me crazy when, when people get so hooked so quickly because you really have to dig.

And then if it's not it, if it's not a hell yes, get rid of it. Done. Move on. Don't hold onto it for this, like, hope that it's going to be something. That's, I think, the biggest mistake. And then at this age, I don't have six months to hold onto something that is not good. Or to make a mistake. And you kind of know, you know. Yeah.

Jana gave you some really good advice. We're not going to go over it because I want you, I want the listeners to listen to Jana's podcast with you. She gives you some really, really good tips. So you guys have to check that out. But what I do want to know is that have you ever had a fun wing

One wing woman who may be a little slightly bit older than you hang out at Bottle Rock listening to fun music. Have you ever done that before? I have never because, you know, right now, right? Like all my friends are married with three kids. Nobody's going out. Nobody is, is...

Having that situation. So I would be honored if you could do that with me today. I think we're going to crush it. We are going to have so much fun. So this became like kind of like my thing. A couple of months ago, we were at iHeartRadio for Jingle Ball and I took some of my new friends out there.

And I just can talk to anyone. I mean, I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but I'm just like, hi, I'm Kelly. And people are like. Okay, good. Cause I can't, I'm not, I'm like shy. I can't do that. And I literally will start asking them questions. I'm just like, so I'll be like, this is like.

And I can do it for you. Yes. But I get really shy about me. So this is going to be perfect. See, we're perfect. But see, I can't do it for myself. I'm just like, I will talk to people, but they're like, are you talking to me for yourself? I'm like, no, no, no, no, my friend. I have this friend. She happens to be adopted, gorgeous, and she's standing next to me. Yes. Yes.

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Okay, so this is like super important. So hypothetically, you and I are like out there in the wild and the music wild and we are attracted to the same guy. What are we going to do?

Do we like the same kind of guy? I don't know. Do we know this? I don't know. Are we going for, like, what about, what's your age range? My age range is... I think we overlap for sure, but... I think so, a little bit. I mean, I just, I don't mind a little bit younger, but, and not too much older. Like, I can't do 70. And I, because I'm just wildly immature, so that would just not work at all. Can you see me with a 70-year-old? I would be like...

Yeah. No. Like running circles. Yeah. And it's not about being fit. Like I don't, it's like the people, the guys are like, oh, you were a model. So you must like people that are really fit. I'm like, that's not true. I just like fun. That's me. You like fit. Yeah. You're like the fit jock. I'm not. I'm like, I just like the person that's having the best time. I don't actually like the very, very built. No, I don't like the like big kind of built. I just, I like more like the just fit and model.

In mind, body, and soul. Like, let's be honest, you know, because you can have this beautiful body and if you're messed up in the head, I mean, I don't want that either. So I think like, it's just the well-rounded for sure. I think I'm just because of my, like, my, like, wherever I go for my favorite memories,

are like Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, hanging out with all my friends, like jumping in the water, water skiing. I like people that are men that are just like having a really good time. So I'm like the frat boy with a job and maybe not so much of the beer gun, but like, I'm okay if it's like, you know. And you know, all this to be said. People are going to be like, she's like a frat boy. No, she doesn't. Yes, I do. I actually really like...

Let's go to, what college should we go to? Check it out. Oh my God. No, no, no. I go to these parents weekends and I'm like, oh, these are not what I mean by frat boys. With all this to be said though, we can sit here all day long and talk about like, okay, what do we like this and that? But for me, it's just this energy. So when I meet some people in person, I may not have liked them on, let's say Raya, but

It's the energy. But it's this energy that's like, whoa. And I did have this experience where, you know, I matched with somebody and he was super smart. And I love this. No, not the little one. Wait, can we talk about him though? Or no? Okay, no. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm like, is he going to be boring? He's super techie. Like, you know, but I did like the sophistication and the classiness and this very, you know, smart part that like the smart is really doing it for me right now. And so I'm like, okay, Pam, let's do a FaceTime and see, is there some swagger? Like I need the swagger. Well,

My mom would be mad if I said Pam because she's like, Pamela, and I did not give you this name. Yeah, Pamela, not Pam. She's like, secret name, Pam. So we did a FaceTime, and I was like, well, go ahead with your bad self, with your techie. I was so impressed. And so it just, it was a really good experience.

you know, experience for me to not just judge by maybe like what you do for a living is going to correlate to, are you exciting or fun or, you know, are you swaggy just because you're in this field? And so, um,

In a perfect world, we meet the guy out, we have the energy, and it's just this like magnetic thing. But in this world, it's really hard to go out all the time and find that. So that's why we're here doing this. Right. One of our new friends that I was talking to last night, she was saying that she's in San Francisco and that she goes out. And because she was on reality, she'll go out and she'll meet these, she'll go out and do whatever. But like guys are never like, hey, why?

Or like, I saw you on this show or that show. But she'll get home and they'll DM her. And like, I don't want to be out in the wild. I want to meet the real people. I want to see the vibe. You know, that's what I'm, I like that too. Yeah. And I think, I mean, you know, because I'm not, I wasn't on a show or anything like that. So I don't have that kind of, I guess, feeling.

Where people would know, oh, who I am. You know, I'm just... Oh, we know who you are. Normal, but... I know who you are. But I think even like for me, when I am out for the rare times that I am, or even like at the gym or wherever it is, I don't think that I give...

off the vibe of available enough. And that's what I think I have to work on personally. You know what? That's so funny that you said that because I think I have to do that too. I think that- Like I don't smile. Like I get embarrassed. It's partly, I truly am shy around men. But see, I smile a lot. I'm just a smiley person. Mm-hmm.

I don't know. I was blessed with good teeth. Like I'm a smiley person and I'm also very outgoing, but I'm also super shy. Like, like I said, like I'm very outgoing this way, but then if you come into my territory, I'm like, I'm like this. I'm like, that's why we need each other. That's why it's going to be perfect. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, we have to have like some kind of code. Maybe we'll just, maybe it'll be Pam. Oops.

Oops. Don't tell your mom. Shh. Don't tell her. If your mom's listening. It can't be our name. Yeah. We have to like some kind of code. So we have a code of good or bad? Yeah. Or which one? Or like if you're like, I really like this guy. And I'll be like, okay. I mean, I'm not, I would never lie. I would be like, you haven't. But like what, like a girl code. Like a Luann de Lesseps, Countess Luann girl code. Like, love you, CD. We're going for you. Like what, yeah.

Kind of slow. C-L, not C-D. Kind of slow. C-L. Like what? How about like a workout? What's like a workout thing? Well, I was just going to say this. It's so random. Like squat or... Back in the 80s when I was, you know, like a young kid, so many kids were getting kidnapped. It's not funny. And so there was a code word that you were supposed to have with your mother. Like if somebody said, hey, you know, come here. Your mom said that...

Like, you know, we need to take you home from school today. That's what they were saying to these kids. And so our code word was Cheerios, me and my mom and my brother. Okay, so Cheerios. Maybe that's the bad one. Maybe that's if we don't like them. Okay, yeah. Cheerios is like a no. But I don't know what the good one is. I don't know. Like some kind of like, what's like something that's really, I mean, I like a Cheerio. It's fine. But what's something that's like really good that's like forbidden? Yeah.

Fruit loop. Apple. An apple. It's like an apple a day keeps the doctor away. No, no, but like from the, you know, they were supposed to, Adam and Eve. Oh, apple. Oh, here I am. Like, I'm going like...

She's like, no, no, Kelly, like Apple, like Adam and Eve. Well, you didn't know where I was going. She's like, stay with me. Stay with me. Okay, fine. So Apple is for forbidden, like hot guy. And the Cheerios is like. Yeah. Okay. All right. So we have our lingo down. Mm-hmm.

And then I want to know, like, just a quick thing. Like, okay, so at a concert, is there a red flag of, like, people are drinking too much? It's too loud. Yeah, absolutely. Too drunk. I can't. I can't do it. Like, I just can't do it. I'll have, you know, it's fine, like, a glass of wine, cocktail or two, whatever. But I just...

I don't like that at all. Yeah. When a guy drinks too much, sorry guys. And they're like, I love you. I love you. It's like, Oh my God. It's just not attractive. And you know, and especially at this age. Plus I don't want someone unpacking when they're drunk. No. Cause if you can't remember it, then you don't mean it. I want to remember everything about these experiences that I have. And,

You know, it's like clouded. Okay, one last question. So on your podcast with Janet, she said that sometimes she has a hard time, not empathizing, but connecting with people that are like well-known or have been on TV like her. And I was listening to that and I thought to myself, yes, sometimes it's difficult because you're like, okay, that person's well-known. And so they have this whole world that you're thinking of. Mm-hmm.

But I wanted to address that because I was like, you know, there's some people who I've learned so much from, whether they're on television or whoever they are. And on this podcast in particular, like I've gone through such a like maturation process. I mean, I've grown up so much in the past, like five or six months. I love that. From therapy to like meeting new people, like making new friends, being able to like really just be open and honest and not,

And like not care what people think. And so I'm just hoping that like we can all bring something to someone. And you never know what someone's going to say that's going to be like, oh my God, yes. You know, like you've said a lot today that, and you've said a lot on both of your podcasts that have been like super powerful and very positive, which I think is so nice too. Thank you.

I think that the energy you put out is going to be the energy that you get back. And so if I'm sitting here saying, oh my gosh, it's so hard out there. Jeez, there's nobody. I mean, that's what I'm going to keep getting. Yeah. And that's actually not even like the reality. I mean, I'm meeting amazing men doing really cool things that I think are evolving pretty well too. It just maybe there hasn't been...

The guy. The guy. The guy. Okay, so we're going to Bottle Rock. So we're going to play some kind of fun. We have to have a challenge or game or something. Oh, goodness. Well, I'm competitive, so. Oh, wow. Okay. I mean, I can be competitive, but really with myself, not with other people. So I'll be like cheering you on.

You're my hype girl. Oh, my God. I'm so competitive with myself. I have to turn myself off. I'm like, oh, God. There she goes again. I have my own inner Pam, like in my own. I'm like, oh, she's just too loud over there. So, okay. So let's come up with a goal. So here's some options. We can actually, Luann, who's on Housewives of the Needs, she was like, she's like, darling, I want you to ask a stranger to,

for a drink. And, but you have to write, write this little note down on a piece of paper and like slide it over. I was like, I don't know. So I did it. I did it. I did it. With my two best gay friends. I was at a bar in New York city and I wrote it and I slid it. And this guy came over and then I was like, Oh my gosh, I would die. I mean, my heart is like, okay. But then he happens to be on love hotel.

And I was just like, how is this my life? Stop. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I'm going to be on a new show, like television. I was like, oh, that's nice for you. Oh, my. And he's like, yeah. I was like, what's it called? He goes, Love Hotel. I was like, what?

So is that like a red flag? I'm sure you're falling in love with the woman because everyone falls in love with the woman. Is that a red flag for you? Like if they're doing something like that or no? For me, it's difficult because like literally every single person in my whole pool of like my dating pool has dated someone who I've been on television with. So it's been like very challenging. And

And it's just like constantly like, oh, guess who's dating someone? So I'm like, oh, wow, that's great. Okay, so here's our challenge. Okay, I'm going to give you some options and then you can tell me yes or no. Okay. Okay, so we can get a phone number from a guy or

Or you can give someone a phone number. So when we say get, so it's not you getting the phone number for me. It's like, I have to get it myself. Oh yeah. Oh gosh. Oh gosh. I'm not going to be like, here's your number. I just, I don't know. I just don't. Okay. No. Move on. Or if it's like the phone number, you can be like, I don't know. Like, I mean, I always say like, go get on my Insta. I've never...

initiated a conversation. I can't even give a guy eye contact, let alone give him my number. So this is going to be a lot. Okay. Just smile. Okay. Forget the eye contact. Just smile. Okay. You're going to smile. That's going to be like people are going to get there. Guys are going to be like, look at her. She's so pretty. Okay. So we're going to get a number or an, and I think we should do like Insta cause I don't really feel comfortable with giving someone my phone number, but fine with Instagram. Yeah. Follow me on Insta. I may or may not read it.

I'm joking. No, no, I'm definitely going to read it. Get a guy to buy you a drink. So we have to have someone be like... That's easy. I mean, because we don't even have to ask. No, no, but you don't know, but not them coming and saying, can I buy you a drink? You have to say, I want you to buy me a drink. Oh God. So it means you have to like... What other options? You have to like initiate, we're like, it's like you and I like,

Okay, I get it. I get it. Okay. I'm going to be in a miniskirt, so I'm going to be definitely like out there. Oh my gosh, fire. Here we go. So, okay, we have to ask someone, get the drink, phone number. How about ask a guy to dance? I could do that. You could? Yes. Oh my God, no.

I could do that. Maybe for like a TikTok. Do you want to be in my TikTok? I wouldn't even ask. I could just like, for some reason when I, so dancing is just so, I love it so much. Are you a good dancer? Yes. Oh my God, I'm awful. Look at me, I'm like a giraffe. I'm like, oh. So I mean, I could see myself like grabbing a guy's hand and like twirling.

or doing something. Yeah, I could do that. Oh, God. Okay. This is going to be great. All right. And then I'm going to make an introduction to someone who I think is like attractive. So I kind of know your vibe. And I will do the same. He's not a fat boy. No, he is not. I didn't like them when I was in a sorority, let alone now.

See, this is good. So we're like, we're like all good. And then we're going to go to Bottle Rock and we're going to have the best time. And then we're going to recap all this. Oh, geez. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Pamela Lynn. I'm going to just call you Pam, but in my inner voice, I'm not going to say that out loud because I don't want your mom to get mad at me if I ever meet her. Well, when I have an alter ego that's called Pittsburgh Pam, and we talked about

that on the podcast because it's like when you just take me to like the PA I will just bring her out yeah wait where are you from Pittsburgh

It's a town called Munhall Homestead. It's like where all the steel mills used to be. Yeah, oh, beautiful. Pittsburgh is a vibe. It's like so great there. I'm so grateful that I grew up there and I go back all the time. I love that. Yeah. Yes, I love that. All right, you guys, thank you to Pamela so much for coming. Jana, thank you so much for introducing me. I love you. We are going to have the best time ever here in Bottle Rock, here in Napa Valley. Let's go, girl. I'm not a singer, but I sing and I don't know why. I can't wait.

So are you ready to date again, but need some wing woman advice? Your mentors are here to help. Email us or call us. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.

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