What The Heck is A Divorce Coach?
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Welcome back to I Do Part Two. I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Garth. And today, I wanted to bring in a guest to talk about something that I've never even heard of before, you guys. She is a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator. She has been at this for over 10 years. I love her TikTok, and she is the co-host of her own podcast, Divorce with Sam and Leah. I can't wait to talk with Samantha Boss. Samantha,

Samantha, what the heck is a divorce coach? A game changer, a lifesaver, a financial saver. Well, okay. I mean, it's a little bit of like we're the catch of all trades. It just kind of depends on what your case needs and what I'm finding my clients need. They're typically in a high conflict divorce, meaning it's not going well. Court is dragging out. Co-parenting is not starting off on the right foot.

And they're usually women that have been in some type of toxic abusive relationship and they don't know themselves yet because they were not happy in the marriage and then they're going divorced. But there's this trial period where they're like segwaying from the abuse to independence.

And that's when all the decisions happen. Yeah. Even if you're not abused per se, like you've just been in this situation that wasn't serving you and you come out and you don't even know which way is up. So my only question really for this entire interview is why weren't you there when I needed you? Why?

Why wasn't I around when I was going? I mean, my divorce lasted forever. That's what everybody says when they meet me and they catch the vibe and they know what services I can offer. And it's like, where were you? Where were you? You know, I found you too late. Where were you two years ago? You know, I wasn't on your feed yet. Now I am. I want to know what is it specifically that you do here? Well, my specialty and my bread and butter, which I just, I could sit on stage and talk for hours about is parenting plans. Cause that's where mine went wrong. Um,

Parenting plan, you know, customizing them, making sure they're detailed, making sure they're protecting you and not, you know, leaving a bunch of gray area for a high conflict personality to take over you. Getting your parenting plan all the way from diapers to diplomas. So I customize parenting plans for people because when you, again, you're in that middle phase, you were married and you want to be single parent, but you're in this phase of decision-making and you just don't know, you know, if you're divorcing with kids that are two, three, five, seven years old,

You're raising kids for the first time. You don't know what's ahead, even in a good situation, let alone, you know, a situation where you're not getting along with your co-parent now. So I customize those parenting plans. I get you wherever you're at with your kids, whatever age the youngest is, and I get you all the way to high school. And I cover everything that you can think of from education, extracurricular, religion and medical and everything in between.

And we covered all. You sound like an expert. I'm going to really love this conversation. I want to know, though, about your journey because, you know, there's nothing I love more than when you work with someone who has actually walked the same path that you've walked. Yeah. And you were in a high conflict divorce situation and ended up being divorced.

taking a lot of years probably off of your life and a lot of money out of your account. Yeah. And so as I was going through that, I was highly educated. I came from a good family. I was the first person to get divorced. And so there was a lot of shame and guilt of like, why couldn't I make this work? So I went into it acting like I was fine. So I hired a really good attorney. I was fine. I had a good attorney. So I thought, you know, and as I was going through this process, because it was taking so long, people

Friends and family started asking me questions as they went through a divorce. And I kept on teaching because I was an educator at the time. And I went through my divorce, took about four years. And we were in court another four years after that over petty stuff that we just couldn't help ourselves. We loved the courtroom. And as I was going through that and helping friends and family, I realized my true passion was correcting my mistake. I felt joy when I helped people. I felt like, okay, don't do that because that's what I did.

You know, don't answer it that way. Cause that's what I did. And it was a lot of healing in that. And then when I went, I met my now husband, Jared, he was like, why don't you quit teaching kids and teach adults about divorce? And at first I was like, you are absolutely insane. Like who would pay me to help them? You know? And he's like,

People call you every day, like people and you're doing it for free. And there it went. And he just said, hey, why don't you become a mediator? So I did that at first and I was getting couples all the time. And that was great. But it wasn't my story. My story, we didn't work out in mediation. We did not get along. So I wanted to help me, the former me. So then I just started helping one client at a time. And that's when it just it clicked. It felt right. And education is my number one objective. I just want people to

to know what's ahead and to know what their options are. I just don't think you get told because you're talking to a high priced attorney what your options are. So then that's how my business just evolved. I kind of, I say that I've pivoted no less than nine times in my business because I'm trying to fit exactly what the former me needed. And I needed support and I needed an education and I needed somebody to say, do this instead of just winging it and hoping that it was going to work.

You're getting me all fired up over here. I'm getting all angry because I didn't have anybody like you and I was winging it. Nobody told me anything. I didn't have any kind of knowledge of what anybody was talking about as far as like legal terms. And I committed to things that I would not have committed to if I had known what I was committing to. Yeah. Well, I think people...

a good heart. There's always one person in the divorce that has a good heart, has good intentions and wants to co-parent and wants to work with the other and will put the kids first. But when you're met with resistance and bitterness and angry and just hatred,

The stuff that you agree to, you're like, okay, well, it'll get better and they'll come around and it'll work out, right? No. And that's what your lawyer sometimes tells you is, hey, don't worry about it, Jenny. When the ink dries, it's going to go smoother. 18 years, mine was a bumpy, twisty, windy road that never got smooth. And so I think that's where I think people's expectations, they go into it different and it stays different and it's not going to go back

healed for everybody the way you see on TV or you see your friends across the street, hell, they're neighbors and they still do Christmas together. And that's great for them, but that's not everybody. That's not everybody. I've been on both sides of that river. Yeah. Spent a lot of time angry and mad and bitter and

resentful and all the things and I just reached a point in my personal life where I thought oh my god this is bringing me down it's bringing me down mentally it's bringing me down physically I look in the mirror I don't like what was who's looking back at me and I needed to like take charge of like flipping the conversation in my own head so that I could come at it from a different way

Well, that was the only thing that's going to change. And I think anybody listening that's going through a high conflict co-parenting journey or even divorce, the only thing you have control over is...

is your own journey. You don't have control over the other house or the other attorney or what your ex is doing or how they're parenting at their house. The only thing you can control is how you interpret information, how you receive it and how it comes out of you when you want to go back and talk and have a conversation. And I think too many of us are trying to control another house or have input about the other house or care too much. Oh my God, I wasted so much time trying to like,

No, because I mean, that's brutal. Like, you know, for me, I was everything. My kids were everything and three little girls. And I given up basically my life, my identity and become so much of a mom to these three girls. And I loved every second of it. So I wasn't like sad about that at the time. But I when they did leave, I was like, Oh, my God, I

I text him, I call him, I try to make sure that their safety is this and they're eating that and that they know they have their bags packed the proper way. Like you, and all I got was like, click, hang up, no text back, stay out of it. You, you don't belong here. There's no place for you. Don't worry about us. I've got it covered. All the things. And those, all those things would just make me so much angrier. Yeah. Until I did like come to terms with the fact that I, I don't get to have any say in,

in my daughters once they leave my door. Yes. And that is a very, and I think that's why women stay too long, you know, or just anybody stays too long in marriage. But yeah, it's a big pill to swallow the first couple weekends they're gone, seeing them show up somewhere and their hair's all a mess or they're in a weird outfit or you get the call from the school that, hey, you know, little Susie doesn't have her lunch today. Like, what are you doing? And you're just like, oh,

You know, like you gasp of embarrassment and then you're like, I feel so bad for my child. And you're like, get your shit together, you know, but you have no control on any of it. But I see a lot of people spend so much time and energy on obsessing about the other house and the care and the quality and they lose themselves and they lose. And this is the thing that I did wrong for eight years. I had no boundaries for eight years. I let him control my house for eight years and co-parenting.

And until I learned boundaries, my relationship with my children was at risk because I was parenting how he wanted me to parent. And I was doing things that the court wanted me to do. And I was still in court. I was going to court all the time. And I was just not focused. I was tired. I was anxious. I was broke. I was miserable. I was drinking too much. I did all the smoking cigarettes like a fiend as soon as they went to bed.

I was doing it all wrong because I wasn't, I was so obsessed with the co-parenting journey and how shitty it was and the divorce process. And what will be the thing that'll make the stop? I was obsessed with finding the thing that would get us on the co-parenting journey. I didn't have radical acceptance that I was just in high conflict and it was going to stay that way forever. Um,

But at the eight-year mark, I hit the absorbance of boundaries and self-love and self-care. And as soon as I did that, my relationship with my children changed. We became unbreakable. My relationships with friends and family grew. And I didn't care less what he was doing. It was just like a switch went off. And I'm like- And so free. Didn't you feel so free in that moment? I mean, it was just this warmth.

blanket that comes over. And then it almost became a laughable game when he would try to get to me. I'm like, good try. Like you're a pattern person. Like I knew this coming into, I teach my clients a bingo card, especially if they're new to figuring out their ex.

You should be doing a bingo card about every situation. So if you have a school function coming up and it makes you really nervous because you know your ex is going to bring five family members, maybe a new significant other, show up late, bring everybody and their brother, have your kids show up late, not embarrass you with a teacher, write all those on a bingo card.

Oh my God, I love this idea. Because then, you know, you sit with, my mom was my rock. So I would sit with my mom and we would make a bingo card about court. You know, what's he going to wear? What elevator is he coming? Because he always did the same thing. Where's he going to park? You know, what's he going to say? Who's he bringing with him? You know, things like that. And then at the end of it, I would, you know, we would exchange the bingo card and I'd be like, oh mom, like you got more than I did. And it was this way too great.

humor to it and expectations because then when he did something outlandish in court, I was like, damn, I had that one down. Yeah. It doesn't anger you as much as it does. Yes, because I expected it. It's a pattern and anybody of high conflict, it's a

pattern behavior. I mean, there's nothing new they're throwing at you guys. You just need to pay attention to the patterns and do bingo cards. And then it becomes less toxic for you. Like you'll react better. You'll stay emotionally regulated because it's an expectation versus a, I cannot believe that happened.

Well, you know it's going to happen. Yeah. Right. Right. So write it down. And then it becomes something to where you get to the point where you don't even have to do the car. Just you sit in the car and you're like, okay, this is how this could go. One of six ways. This is going to go this way. And then it becomes an expectation and a learned behavior. And then your responses can get better. And your peace stays there versus going into everything like, hope it goes well. It's probably not. Prepare for the probably not. Have your body ready for it probably not going well. Hmm.

Yeah, it's so you cannot be prepared when this is your first rodeo. Or even if it's your second rodeo, but now you have more little clowns in the in your cart. Absolutely. Take care of like, you don't there's so much you don't know when and

Divorce is a business, I feel like. It is. I mean, it's a billion-dollar industry every year. And I think just having a divorce coach, so many people, like you said, what is this? We're the calm. We're the educator. We're the handholder. You have a very high-priced attorney that every time you call costs you $300 to $600, depending on where you live. And sometimes all you want to do is just bitch on the phone and have somebody say, that's not right, Jenny. Let us do that for a

way more affordable cost to where you can get all that emotional stuff out. And then we can give you bullet points. Okay, take this to your attorney. And now you've gotten through the story and your attorney really only has time for bullet points anyways. And they really only want bullet points. They don't want the story, you know? And so we can cut down costs, the education part alone, just educating you about the

process, educating you about, you know, right of first refusal, holidays, vacation, how many vacation weeks should we have? And what does that look like? Can I take them back to back? Explaining all of those options, that alone, just that educational part takes away so much anxiety. You know, if you have mediation coming up and some attorneys just say, go into it with an open mind.

Okay. But what are they going to ask me? Well, just let the mediator lead it. Okay. But what are they going to ask me? That's up to your mediator. Okay. That sends me into a tailspin, you know? So letting us as divorce coaches educate you about here's all the things you should bring up. If even if the mediator doesn't, because at the end of the day, when the mediators out of the picture, the lawyers out of the picture, you're with your kids, right?

using a paperwork to guide you. And if that paperwork is horrible, you don't have good guidance. And then what do you have to do? You have to either A, call your ex, which you don't want to do and have to have those conversations, or B, call a very high-priced attorney back to have them work it out for you. So either way, you're doomed. It's not what you want to be doing as a single parent. You want to move on and have really good paperwork. Yeah.

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Hi, it's Kelly Ben-Simon. Did you ever notice how more and more people are stepping away from organized religion? It's like they're collectively realized, wait, I don't actually have to go to synagogue on Friday or church on Sundays and boom, sleeping in one. And here's the thing. Not everyone's cool with this shift. Christian nationalism is on the rise and they're working overtime to shove their beliefs into our laws, our schools, and even our personal lives. It's like, hey, I respect your right to believe whatever you want. Just don't make me live by it.

That's where the Freedom From Religion Foundation comes in. They fight to keep church and state separate, like our founders actually intended. So whether you've always been secular or have left religion behind, believe in keeping faith out of government. FFRF has your back. Join them. Go to ffrf.us slash freedom or text the word church to 511-511 and become a member today.

Text CHURCH to 511-511 or go to ffrf.us slash freedom. Because the only thing worse than someone forcing religion on you is when they do it by law. For membership information, text CHURCH to 511-511. Text fees may apply. What was it? You said you were a teacher before. What did you teach? I taught PE, driver's ed, and health. Okay. And I coached all the sports. Like so teenagers. Yes.

Junior high and high school. Yeah, that was my bread and butter. I loved it. I loved the kids. But there was something about, and I think that's why I'm good is because I was formed on teaching. That was my background is all teaching and teaching and teaching. So, I mean, you give me a subject, I can talk for hours about divorce. And so that's why Jared was like, you have to teach people like let...

All of the pain that you went through become your passion and just teach people better. And I know I've saved people thousands of dollars and that's great, but I know I've helped people take their power back and feel educated and well-versed when talking to their exes and with their attorneys. They feel like they know what they're talking and they know why. I always explain why something. I don't just say, hey, pick this for Christmas.

I give them an example of why they should pick that for Christmas. And then it's like, you see all these light bulb moments for people that are super distracted right now. Again, in that really tough phase of married and one that divorce phase, you're emotional. You're worried about your kids. You're finding yourself again. You're just, you're worried about everything. Let me guide you. Let me guide you through that part. Cause I've been there, done that, did it wrong, but now I know how to do it. Right. Well, first of all, I think like, because you had that experience teaching kids,

and sort of managing adolescent personalities, different people, all different shapes and sizes. I feel like there's, you know, a lot of guys who kind of stopped developing at a certain age until they don't, can't get away with it anymore. Yep. And I feel like that's good on the job training for you. Absolutely. So yeah, I'm a single mom say, and I'm going through what has become a high conflict divorce and I don't know what I need, but I know I need help.

So a person like you is a person to turn to for just to help you have a plan in place to give you guidance. Yeah. Cause I think my ideal client would be the woman that's at home going,

gosh, I want to leave and this has given me hope. I'll contact Sam. I want you to contact me before you contact an attorney. And here's why. I want you to be educated first when you go to that consultation with that attorney, because you should be doing two or three consultations to really get a full grab. And I would really like to take it a step further and not only get an education from me, I have a masterclass with a workbook that's phenomenal. It's only $97. I keep everything affordable because when I was going through my divorce, I couldn't afford it.

That's amazing though. Yeah, just a little masterclass, a couple hours long. You can learn all the lingo, learn about holidays, learn what's going to be asked of you, right? And then I would really, if I had like the best wishes for you, I would want you to go ahead and build your parenting plan. That way you can get everything wrote down of what ideally you would want for your kids from diapers to diploma. And then you use that paper to take into your consultations and say, okay, attorney, I know you're giving me all the right answers here, but I want you to look at this

And if you really truly believe that you're a good fit for me, what do you think of this proposed parenting plan? This is how much detail I want to have. This is the level of longevity I want to go. And what do you think? And I'm going to tell you right now, that answer will dictate whether that's a good lawyer for your situation or not, because that lawyer may get offended.

that you've already done a lot of work because that just decreased their billable hours. That attorney may say, absolutely not. We're not doing something like that. No judge will go for that. And it's like, well, that's because you're still using a template from 1984. Okay. So things have changed. Kids have modernized. So have relationships and so has personality disorders. We need a little bit more detail in here, but there's attorneys out there that have seen my parenting plan and they

Love it. Because modifications are on a rise. People are coming back to court again and again, again, once they're divorced because they realize their paperwork is faulty and it doesn't go and age up with the children. No, but then you feel stuck because you've just gone through this expensive divorce and you realized you shouldn't have said no to this, or you should have said yes to this, or you realize, I don't even know what's happening. He's taking them for every other week. What? Because that was my case. I was just like in such a

haze of like, what? I didn't even know what way was up. And then you have to go back. Like that's the only option. You have to go get it amended. And that costs a ton of money too. Yep. And that's where, that's just my frustration. I mean, I had 300 court entries for a reason because our parenting plan, when we got it was four pages. I was so excited after four years to have a parenting plan. I mean, I was like disappointed in what it said, you know, as far as visitation, but I was like, okay, at least I have a parenting plan. And then the first time I went to use it, I was like,

wait a second, like, why is this not mentioned? Why is this not mentioned? So then I casually called my ex because I thought we'd be co-parenting. And he was like, doesn't say I have to. I'm like, I'm like, wait a second. Like, you know, or it was child support should cover that. Child support should cover that. You know, doesn't say I have to. It was always like, yeah, but this is for our kids. This isn't for me. This is...

And if it's not written, they won't do it. And so I was stuck with this four page parenting plan. So every time like the kids leap to a different phase of life, I would have to go back and say, can we add this in here? And I kept asking, can't we just kind of plan out? Because again, I taught, I know, I know the phases of children. Can we just not write out all the way to graduation? Well, we don't know yet, Sam.

Um, so you would just want me every time they go through a new phase to hire my attorney, pay a new retainer, fill out paperwork and go through this stress all over. Just when I'm telling you, let's just go ahead and put it down. And my methodology is this.

Too many people go into divorce thinking they'll be friends still or they'll get along or they'll just work on it later or discuss it later. My methodology would be plan for worst case scenario. You're already paying the money. Pay for worst case scenario. Write out every detail you can possibly think of all the way to graduation. And here's the deal. If you end up being that kumbaya relationship and you are friends, put the fucker on the shelf and never look at it. Yeah.

But if you need it, you pull it out and you say, hey, I'd love to, Steve, but I think I'm going to follow the parenting plan on this one. I didn't have a parenting plan, Sam. Oh, my gosh.

That makes my just blood boil for you. I don't know how we got through it. I remember a lot of futile, well, I'm going to call my lawyer threats. And then him saying, go ahead, you'll have to pay for it. Then you're like, well, fuck me. I can't, I don't, I don't have

more money to pay for this. Yeah. I've got nothing. I have no choices. I have no options. I have no way out of this awful feeling. Right. And that's, that's the situation that most of my clients have is that they're willing to work with their co-parent and their co-parent is a counter parent who always say, taking you to court, then you can't do that. I'm taking the kids from you. You're going to have to pay for my lawyer to where I'm

I'm already broke. So now you have me by the balls and you know, now I have to agree with what you want because I can't afford to take you to court. So then that high conflict parent gets away with murder every single time, every single time. And it's frustrating.

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Refresh Optiv Mega 3 is safe to use as often as needed. Find your Refresh online or in the iDrop aisle at your favorite drugstore, grocery, Walmart, or Target.

Hi, it's Kelly Ben-Simon. Did you ever notice how more and more people are stepping away from organized religion? It's like they're collectively realized, wait, I don't actually have to go to synagogue on Friday or church on Sundays and boom, sleeping in one. And here's the thing. Not everyone's cool with this shift. Christian nationalism is on the rise and they're working overtime to shove their beliefs into our laws, our schools, and even our personal lives. It's like, hey, I respect your right to believe whatever you want. Just don't make me live by it.

That's where the Freedom From Religion Foundation comes in. They fight to keep church and state separate, like our founders actually intended. So whether you've always been secular or have left religion behind, believe in keeping faith out of government. FFRF has your back. Join them. Go to ffrf.us slash freedom or text the word church to 511-511 and become a member today.

Text CHURCH to 511-511 or go to ffrf.us slash freedom. Because the only thing worse than someone forcing religion on you is when they do it by law. For membership information, text CHURCH to 511-511. Text fees may apply.

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Okay. When you talk about that parenting plan, though, is that something that you, even though you're representing or working with one client, say in this case, the female, the woman or whatever, one partner, then do you work with the other parent as well to come up with that parenting?

plan or is it just what one side wants? It's just what one side wants to propose. So again, they're using that parenting plan to either find a really good attorney. They're using that parenting plan as a starting point to take to mediation with them because we all know in our first mediation appointment, we're like ass sweaty, nervous. I mean, we're just like, you know, mouth dry and we see our high conflict person and then we may freeze.

Right. And then we forgot all those good things that our girlfriends and TikTok showed us and the reels. And we're like, oh, shit, we forgot. So that's why you need to have it on paper because you're going to lose your mind at your first appointment. So having that there, you know, and then if it doesn't go well, OK, still, I still have it.

Maybe I'll edit it a little bit, make it from what I heard in mediation. But then my attorney is going to propose it to the other side, attorney to attorney before our court date even comes up. So the attorneys are constantly trying to edit down because at the end of the day, when you have children and you're divorcing, everybody's going to walk away with a parenting plan of some kind. It's going to have some kind of written documentation that says what's happening with the kids, what holidays, what things are you doing?

And so why not be the lead on that? Because like I've told my clients, I'm not polishing a turd. If you wait for your client to send over to our side and I'm helping you, I can't fix garbage. Okay. And mine is spectacular because again, diapers is a plonet detail, detail, detail. And when I get these like six, seven page parenting plans to just say parties will later discuss parties will later determine. Okay.

No, I don't want to determine anything with him later. I want it to be done. So that's why I always want my client to have it done first, be the proposer, be the ones that initiate, be the lead. You know, for the marriage, most of my clients have been the second person. They may have been leading in the organizer and everything, but they've been second fiddle for most of the marriage. This is your opportunity to be leading through this process and feel like you have your power coming back.

You know that you don't spend any time researching divorce or how that works. No, until you're in it. Until you're about to get one. But I feel like in just talking to you, like I feel like we should talk about that, teach that before people get married. I mean, people will not like that probably because people don't even want to talk about prenups. Yeah.

I feel like if you're going to go into a legally binding situation with somebody and it looks amazing in this moment, you don't know what's going to happen in life. Nobody knows. And again, you have no control. So why not learn...

Why shouldn't we be teaching? And, you know, it's another thing I wish we were teaching in school. Like, what is marriage? What does that mean to us? And how does that affect our livelihood and our living situation? All the things. It's really important. Right. Well, I have two children from my divorce who are now, you know, 21 and 19. And one of them's in college. She goes to University of Alabama. And, you know, she sees her peers. Right.

you know, going out and doing typical college behavior. And she's always playing through because she was a child of a high conflict co-parenting journey. She's always like, hey, I know you're dating that guy. If you sleep with them and happen to get pregnant, can you co-parent for the next 18 years with this guy? I mean, my daughter's like the mom trying to be like, hey, hey,

you may have an accident that you don't intend to. Can you co-parent with this? But do you even know what their morals are? Do you know what they want for Christmas? And not like my kids are so well versed in my, my business. Now they're part of the business and helping, you know, other kids that are going through divorce and moms and giving input and things like

that of what it was like because I didn't do it right. And so they talk about my journey and stuff. But yeah, you have to be able to co-parent with this person before you have kids and having that strong conversation. Hey, before we get into kids, if we ever do split up, what would you think? What would it feel like? On my second marriage with Jared, I joke, but I'm not joking. I am the breadwinner of our household. I've always joked that I will pay you child support

I will be the weekend warrior parent. I will swoop in for holidays. Like I can't go through another toxic divorce. There's just no way my body. But I also picked a man that I know it would never get that way. You know, it's not going to get that way. His personality is the personality that I need. Right. So having that ability, I think that first marriage gives you is like, I know what I don't want. Not doing that. Right. You learn a lot. Yeah. You learn along with it. And if you're not learning on the job training situation. Right.

If you're not learning from every relationship about what you put into it and what you took away and what your fault is. And I think just a little side piece of advice to anybody listening, when they start dating again, if you're dating someone after your divorce and they've been divorced as well, and they can't take any ownership in their divorce, that's a red flag for me. That's a red flag. And for me, I first eight years, I would have told you it was all my ex-husband. Yeah.

gosh, to live with him, I would have blamed everything on him. But then again, when I got personal development and self-care and self-love and boundaries and all that personal work was going on with therapy, that's when I realized, should I play just the biggest part in our marriage failing and our divorce taking forever?

It was me too. Absolutely me too. Yeah, there's so much finger pointing in the beginning, especially maybe for many years. And I definitely was a major part of that. But I always say I had to start pulling the thumb and looking at my part in things. That's a good one. And that's not just with my divorce. That's like you should be doing that in every situation in your life, looking at...

What is your part in this either being a success or not being a success? Exactly. I love that. I love that. I'm going to steal that thumb thing. It's a good one, right? That is a good one. Okay. So when people find you, what is the number one question they have? How do I get my lawyer to understand what I need?

A lot of people don't know how to work their lawyer in their favor. And I think people forget you are the one paying your attorneys, not the other way around. You know, you're, you are paying your attorney. They work for you. Right, right. So people are coming to me for expert, you know, advice on parenting plans and how do I get my attorney to understand that I want the longevity, you know, I want the detail, I want to be protected. I don't want to have to come back to court or work with them. So that would be

hands down, parenting plan questions and how to get your lawyer to buy into it is the big one. And for that, just the answer is the right attorney will buy into your story and believe you. And anybody that shames you for saying, well, don't worry. I've seen a lot of ex-husbands or ex-wives like that. It's not that big a deal. That's not your attorney. You guys, there's plenty of attorneys out there. I don't care if you even live in a small town, fish around, go around, do your research. Picking

the wrong attorney at the very beginning can be a doomsday to your whole case. So due diligence. I mean, I know people are like, I'm broke. I can't afford all these consults. Can you afford $100,000 by picking the wrong attorney at the beginning? Because that's what I did. I fell for Dove chocolates in the bathroom and the marble countertops and her high heels. And I was just like, I'm in love.

I was like, look at this powerful woman. And then she didn't do shit for me. And then I hired my ex-attorney who wore like shoulder pads before they were cool again, had like Sigourney Weaver hair and like just destroyed office. I hired her and she was a badass.

So it's not always what you think at the consultation, but that's why I want you to take that parenting plan and really say, no, this is the level of person I'm dealing with. And this is how much protection I need. And if they don't buy into that detail, that's not your attorney. Okay. I think this is a great place for us to take a pause in this conversation. We have so much more to talk about.

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