Why I Do Part 2 Is Golden with Joan Vassos
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It's I Do Part Two, and we're Thelma and Louise, your favorite besties back at it to have a great conversation today about love and loss and Chapter Two. Our guest today is someone we all fell in love with when she opened herself up to love again on The Golden Bachelor, and then when she starred in The Golden Bachelorette.

We can't wait to talk with her today. Please welcome Joan Vasos to the podcast. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Hi, Joan. Hi. How are you guys? Thank you for wanting me to be on your podcast. I appreciate it.

We're so excited. And I have to ask you a question that's totally unrelated to anything that we're talking about today, but it's always intrigued me. The clothes. I mean, how did you figure out your wardrobe for the bachelor and bachelorette? Because I feel like you're in evening gowns practically every night. I mean, did you have to hire a stylist? Do you just have a naturally good sense of style? How did you approach that? And then I'll get into the meat of it. But I had to ask you.

Well, then we need to ask her about her arms because let's be real. Her body is ridiculous. Oh God, no, it's not. But thank you for saying that. Good lighting, I think. So for the golden bachelor, I had to do all my own clothes and they, you could see that they weren't anywhere near as golden bachelorette as good as golden bachelorette. So golden bachelor, you do all your own clothes. You have to bring all your own evening gowns and,

Everything you wear every day is yours. And then if you get to be the lead in the show, so when I was the Golden Bachelorette, you have a stylist. His name is Cary Fetman. He's a genius. You go like three or four days before you start filming, or maybe even a week before you start filming, and you go, and he has...

30 racks of clothes, at least 30 racks. He has hundreds of dresses and hundreds of outfits and they're all gorgeous. And you have conversations with him before you arrive. So he knows what your style is and what like your colors are and all that. And then you just spend three full days, like eight to 10 hour days trying on clothing. And then you kind of narrow it down. Like, you know, he'll say you're going to need 10 evening gowns. And so you try on all the evening gowns and you narrow it down to the 10th.

And then he alters them. So they are like made for your body. So it is like such a treat to have a stylist. Now I have to go back and be my own boring, you know, dress like, as you can see, I have to keep any of the clothes, any of your kind of greatest hits.

So I've heard through the grapevine that you get to pick some of the outfits that you want to keep, but so far I don't have any of the clothes and I'd really like to have some of them. Yeah, I'm hoping, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that maybe I get something, an outfit or two. I know that a lot of the evening gowns came from Randy Rahm, the designer in New York that I was talking about.

And so I think they go back to her. So they are kind of like borrowed. They're not, they don't belong to the show. They're really expensive. She does like really big, like she does Beyonce and, you know, really big stars. You wore them well. I got to wear them. You made her look good. I think everybody wears those well. Thank you for indulging me. It sounds like a total Cinderella moment. Oh my God. It was my favorite part of the show, I swear to God. Other than finding Chalk. Not Chalk. Sorry, Chalk.

Okay, well, so now moving on. Joan, we loved watching you in The Golden Bachelor and The Golden Bachelorette. But for those listeners who may not be familiar with your story, tell us a little bit about your chapter one. Okay, chapter one. So when I was married to John. So I met John when I was in college. We dated on and off kind of throughout like a three-year period. And then when we both graduated from college, we were kind of like in the good place, you know, ready to be ready to date more seriously. And we did. And...

We got engaged, we got married, we did all the normal things that, you know, married couples do. We had jobs and we built a house and we, you know, kind of started our life together. We had four kids, we had four kids in six years. So we, you know, we were, you know, intimately involved in raising our kids and doing sports. And the community. Yeah. Yeah. And which is what I kind of loved. Like, I really miss those years still, you know, again, because I loved sports.

kind of raising my kids, John and I raising our kids with a bunch of other parents that were raising their kids. And it was like a big community effort. And everybody says, oh, we're going to have pizza tonight or we're going to go to the baseball game. You know, our kids are playing and we're going to sit on the sidelines. And they were just such great bonding moments of raising our kids together. And I miss that like community that we had.

And so then, you know, my kids kind of grew up, they all went off to college. And then now have all kind of started their own lives. When my youngest child was in college, he was a junior in college, John was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And it was kind of right as we were thinking about like our second chapter of our lives, like traveling and, you know, maybe buying a second home someplace. And, you know, you kind of finally get to the age where you have

the time and you have, you know, kind of maybe a little more extra money and you can do fun, you know, more fun things or different things. And right when we were getting to that point in our lives is when John got really, really sick.

So he survived the cancer for about two years, but it was while he was in treatment the whole time. We were traveling back and forth to MD Anderson, trying to get him to be part of a trial. None of, we never found a trial that he was eligible for. We never, the chemo really didn't work all that well. And then he did radiation. And eventually after almost two years, he passed away of pancreatic cancer. I'm so sorry.

That's so hard. That's awful. And it's a terrible cancer. So those two years that he was alive, most of those years weren't really weren't very good. He was in a lot of pain. So it was a horrible way to die. And he left, you know, kind of right at the part of our life where we were going to start really having fun and go back to being a couple, not just parents that, you know, two or four kids. So I felt like my life had kind of ended, like my whole life.

that I was planning with John was all of a sudden like this black hole. There was no future. I didn't have a person to spend it with. I didn't really want to, you know, I just was kind of in the mode of just staying alive and trying to be strong for my kids or try to like support them as well as I could. And, you know, I would see them and I was the happy person and, you know, we got, we're getting through this and we're a great family. And then I would go up to my bedroom and I would cry. And that took me about two years to get through kind of that phase of life to then realize

look and say, okay, well, maybe I can have a future. It didn't feel like I could in the beginning. But then I thought, you know, why am I at the age of 59 saying that I can't have a second chance at love? Because, you know, I was married to John for 32 years. What tells me that I can't have somebody else for 32 years at that age? I possibly could.

And so I decided that I needed to take action. And I did some dating apps like everybody does, you know, that's like the widest net. I am so scared of those dating apps.

And were there friends that were pushing you to do it? Or was it something your kids were involved with saying, mom, it's time to do that? Or did you and John have those conversations that he wanted you to have another kind of chapter to? Yeah, kind of all of the above, actually. Yeah. So right before he passed away, about three days before he passed away, I remember him calling me over to the stove and he's like, come, come sit next to me, come sit next to me. He was kind of in and out of sleep. He was really sleeping. He was pretty well drugged.

And he said, we have a great life together and I want you to be happy again. And he said, I want you to find somebody else. And I was in total denial. It's hard to believe I was because he went from 120 pounds to like 110 pounds. And I still looked at him and thought he was going to live.

And I said, no, I said, I am not having this conversation with you. I said, you are not leaving me. And he's like, all right. Oh, Joe. And it was the best gift he could have given me because I would have had a really, really hard time doing this if I didn't have his blessing. In fact, I probably wouldn't be here today because, but he did this, you know, he gave this to me and I didn't know it at the time. And I didn't really even think about it for a lot of months, probably well into the second year after he had passed away.

And it gave me this freedom. It was almost like permission was a little bit of permission almost, right? Absolutely was. Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't gotten that. He was also a person that lived really big. He lived life to the fullest. Like everything he did was epic. You never went on like a normal vacation. You went to the

best hotel and you rented like every boat and every, you know, like water tour you could rent. And like, everything was big and everything was huge. We go to a restaurant, just a normal restaurant. He orders every dessert on the menu just because he wanted to try it all. What a, what a joie de vivre, what a, what a life spirit, but that's so, such a fun life. So brave of you. And he's probably looking from above and he's happy and, and all that, but it's so brave and it's, um,

I'm so happy for you that you're getting this again. Are your kids, were they supportive of you? Did they want to see you have another life? I mean, you have four kids. I'm sure there was conflicting feelings for all of them. Kind of. So they wanted me happy, absolutely. But I think the whole process of...

Like them knowing I was dating wasn't really particularly comfortable, but you know, at this point they're all adults. So it's not like I have kids at home that are worried, you know, that I'm going to bring a man home, you know, enter their home or something like that. That wasn't a worry. And they wanted me to be happy. I just don't think they really wanted the details of it. They didn't really want to know a lot about relationships and stuff like that. So when I was doing online dating, that was easy. You know, I'd be like, I'm going on a date tonight or maybe I wouldn't even tell them whatever. And I didn't talk about the men, you know, really very often. Um,

When I told them that I had filled out the application to go on Golden Voucher... Sorry to interrupt. Was that your idea to go on the show or was that a friend? So tell us about that. That's amazing. So I was out to dinner with a friend. We were sitting at the bar and it was right at about the two-year mark. So John had been gone for about two years. The first year, people say, after the first year, you'll start feeling better. Not true. I felt...

like crap. In fact, I felt worse the second year, it kind of all hit me, like, this is my life, this like, what the you know, like, what the heck happened. And so that second year was really hard. And I was getting to the end of that second year. And I was starting to feel lonely before I was just kind of numb. And then I started feeling lonely and feeling like I wasn't part of a couple, which is really hard in a world of couples. And I had gone from being, you know,

John and I had gone from being a couple that we did, we had a lot of couple friends with, a lot of couple friends. We did a lot with our couple of friends to me being a single. And then all of a sudden I was excluded from all kinds of social things because I was a single.

So I was starting to feel all... We're familiar with that. You get it, right? And it's so weird. It's hard. Yeah, it really is. And I was like alone on singles island and I hated it. And I wanted, I was starting to feel like I wanted to be a couple again, mainly because of the, like I missed doing the things with other couples.

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Question. You mentioned that you met your husband, you met John in college. So you really, I mean, you never really experienced dating. You fell in love young and kind of, it sounds like you grew up with John. So first time in 30 years that not only had you been through really a tragedy, but you also had to figure out like what, what that looked like to date. And so how,

I mean, what were you feeling at the time and how did you approach that? Or did you have help? You know? Yeah. So weird. Right. I mean, I, I had this idea that I would rather meet somebody like organically. So I had this new thing that I would do. I would meet friends out for dinner and I have tons of friends, so I would be out a lot and, you know, they kind of, um,

Like a lot of them kind of made me go out in the beginning and they're like, you can't sit at home. You need to get out. You need to get out. And that kind of became like my life, me going out with my friends, you know, most evenings every week.

So, and I would always go, you used to go sit at a table and I would say, let's sit at the bar now because I thought it opened me up to more people. That's what we do. We did it yesterday. It's so fun. Just the two of us though. It's fun going out with a girlfriend because a lot of times people will engage you with talking and sometimes it's just another couple, a guy, a man and a woman, like a husband and wife. But you know, you'd never know like when you're out, if that husband and wife have a friend.

or like the more that you're out there and the more accessible you are. So you need to not go sit at a table where no one's going to come up to you. You need to sit at like the bar. Or it doesn't just drop out of the sky, right? Like you have to put it out there. Absolutely. Totally agree with you on that one. So we were out, we were sitting at a local restaurant, a bar, like actually right across the street from my house where I go often. Like I know the bartender and other people there. So it's like a really comfortable place for me. And I said to my friend, you know, I really feel like

I'm ready to maybe start dating. And kind of in my, I thought in my head, my heart didn't really feel that way yet, but my head definitely knew that I wasn't getting any younger. I wasn't getting prettier. I wasn't getting any more fun. And that they were, there could be guys out there that are feeling the same way, maybe close to my age or whatever. And I thought, I felt like I needed to get out there. So like I was saying that to my head, but I said to her, I go like, look around this restaurant. I go, everybody here is a couple.

And she's like, yeah, they are. I go, how am I ever going to meet somebody? I really want to meet somebody organically. I don't want to do dating apps. I want to like be at a wedding or be at a bar like this or at a restaurant or meet somebody at the grocery store. You both reach for the tomato or, you know, some romantic story like that. But I was like, it hasn't happened yet. And I don't feel like it's going to happen. And she's like, you're going to have to do dating apps. And I was like, oh, do you live in a small do you live in a small community where most people are married? Were people thinking to set you up?

So I kind of put it out there that I was ready to be set up and people were like, oh, you're not gonna like any of the guys I know that are single or look, I don't know anybody single. So like people weren't particularly wanting to set me up. They didn't think that I would be interested in the people that we knew that were single. So but I don't live in a small community. I live right outside of Washington, DC. I live actually right in the suburbs of a big

big city. So it's not like there shouldn't have been a lot of people out there, but I guess my friends just didn't know. And once again, couples hang out with couples. You also probably just wanted the exercise of dating, right? I mean, it's, it's not like you were like, I need to find my Mr. Perfect. It's like, yeah,

you probably just didn't even know what it was like to date. So it was more about like exercising the muscle, right? But she's also good at it. She's also great at a relationship, obviously. So I'm sure that that felt something that would be another destination that you would want in your life, potentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love, like I said, being part of a couple. And I love the give and take. And I love the I love going out with somebody. I also love sitting at home and watching a Netflix like I like having my person.

It's just like I had it for so many years of my life. I didn't really know how to do it without having somebody.

Like you said, I was, you know, we married kind of young. You know, we started dating when we were in college. I dated while I was in college, but like it's college dating. That's not like serious dating. I started dating seriously right out of college with John. So I never really had a long-term relationship with anybody other than John. So I did need to practice a lot. And so I came home from that restaurant that night thinking I got to go on a dating app. This is a

And I turned my TV on and I'm a bachelor watcher and it was a bachelor night and I turned my TV on to watch The Bachelor. And the first commercial that came up said we are taking casting calls for a new series called The Golden Bachelor. Oh, my God. That's a message from the universe directly to you. That's exactly what I said. Literally like a lightning bolt. The universe is speaking to me.

And so I filled that application out and I did a really lousy job because I was on my phone and I had had two glasses of wine and I can't see or type when I, after I got any wine. And there was no chat GPT then. No, there wasn't. I needed it. No, no, no. So I filled out like, I don't know. It was a long application, like 90 questions. It was really, really, really long. I had

Filled out about half of it. I did the part where you need to send, you know, like your Instagram and your social media stuff, which I don't think I had any followers on Instagram. I'm going to be positive I had it, but I sent whatever I had. So you were the first star really of Golden Bachelet. Did you honestly think that there was a reality or potential that you could find a forever love on the show? Like it,

If so, and at what moment did you think to yourself, oh my God, this could really work for me? This could happen. So it kind of became a little bit of a reality when I was on Golden Bachelor, not necessarily because of Gary. I mean, he was fine, but I didn't think he was a match for me. But when I went on my one-on-one date with him, I felt...

like I could picture it finally, like picture actually being with another person. And I hadn't up until that point, I was even on the show filming and still was thinking, you know, I don't picture myself with anybody other than John. And after I went on my date with Gary, even though I knew he wasn't for me and I left the next day. So that was the day I left to go home to my daughter. Um, I, I all of a sudden like a switch flipped and I felt like,

I could picture a life with somebody else. And I think part of it was not just being with Gary, but being with the other 21 other women and hearing them, their stories and seeing how much fun they're having dating and, you know, their stories about finding love again. It made me want it more and think it was possible more.

Because I'm like, these smart women that I really, really respect and kind of grew to love, a lot of them are my really, really good friends now, were doing it. And it gave me faith that if they were doing it, why did I think that it wasn't going to work for me? So it kind of like the switch kind of flipped. So when I went on Golden, when I became the Golden Bachelorette and I started that filming, I actually was feeling pretty positive about it. But I was worried because I hadn't met the men yet.

And I was like, I don't know what they're casting for me, even though I know the producers pretty well because I'd done Golden Bachelor. And over that time of them interviewing me and kind of selecting me and going through that whole process to become the Golden Bachelorette, I really spoke to them a lot. And I felt like they knew me pretty well, but I had no idea who was going to apply for this because I didn't know if there were going to be a bunch of really outgoing men that

you know, wanted to be out there and wanted to date on national TV. Like, I don't know if there's a big group of those people because most men I know would be like, yeah, no thanks. I'm not going to do that on national TV. That's like, I'm not very dignified. I don't, I just felt like they wouldn't be open to being open and being vulnerable and talking about their feelings. And that certainly is required in this process. So I thought maybe they're not going to have a lot of men. So I was really worried the night of the limousines entering. I was like, okay, this is it. I got to see if like,

There's anybody good here. And I felt pretty soon after the first couple limousines came that this could work out. And how did you...

Obviously, you knew you were going on the Golden Bachelorette and you'd already done the Golden Bachelor. But back to your kids. I think I read an article recently that talked about how you had four kids and two of them kind of had differing opinions on you dating and especially doing it in the limelight in front of the national television. So how much...

Did you seek input, permission from them and really involve them in this process? Probably input, not permission. Because I'm not sure if they would ever not give me permission because they would never be like that selfish. And they knew, you know, if I really wanted to do it, they would want that for me. But I did really want their input because I wanted to respect their privacy because like it was me going on this journey, not them.

And so I wanted to make sure I didn't embarrass them. I didn't, um, you know, reveal anything about them that they didn't want revealed because this was my journey, not theirs. So I had conversations. I had a lot of conversations with my kids and, um, I had two that thought it was really kind of cool and fun. And, um,

You know, my thought was, and I actually had this conversation with a friend of mine. I said, God, I don't know if I want to do this. I'm afraid that, like, in some way, it's not respecting John's memory. It's not honoring John by going out and doing something this kind of salacious, you know, it's a little...

you know, a little sordid maybe or something. You know, I didn't feel that way, but I was afraid that other people did. And I kind of knew how I was going to do this process and that I was going to be dignified. I was going to be embarrassing, but I just didn't want like to embarrass my kids. One of the things that Thelma and I really took away was the way you handled those overnight dates that you didn't do. I mean, it was so elegant and so...

classy and respect. I mean, it was, it was literally probably my biggest takeaway was how you handle that. It was amazing. Thank you. I put a lot of thought in that because I didn't think it was going to be really popular with the producers. I mean, that's part of the show and or the guys or the guys or the guys. There's that too. Um,

But I felt like I had to do what was right for me. And there's no, in no universe can I ever imagine sleeping with three guys in the same week.

Especially with your kids and your friends and your community watching the show. Well, 100%. I agree with that. And by the way, I would have handled it the same way. And as Louise indicated, I thought you were stellar. And you handled it head on. You were direct. You were vulnerable. And you were amazing. Honest and so transparent.

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question for you was there any concern because obviously you had I mean being with the person for 31 years right and being intimate I mean there's a level of comfort there were you at all concerned that this was your opportunity to you know be with these men and were you concerned at all about intimacy I don't you know was that a priority obviously not to that level but you know what I'm saying

Absolutely. So like you said, you know, it was going to be very weird. And, you know, kind of out of my comfort zone, again, like dating was out of my comfort zone, I, you know, kind of did that. But getting to that end, you think, okay, there's obviously a physical component. I mean, and it's certainly a message that I wanted out there. Honestly, I didn't

on. Like this was a show about people dating in their, you know, second half of their life. And so like, I think addressing intimacy part of it is important because I don't want people to think that like, that's not an important part of my relationship or relationship at this age. We

We know it is right. I mean, it's certainly like, it's certainly something that I wanted, but I didn't want to do it on national TV. And, um, I think there's things that you can tell about your attraction to a person that doesn't have to take it all the way to the end. So, I mean, kissing is, you know, really important. And, um,

you know, I feel like there's more, there's intimate moments that don't require you like having sex with somebody. And so, I mean, like I knew that I was only going to have a, you know, a physical relationship with one person if I ended up with somebody and, you know, I didn't necessarily know I was going to end up with somebody, but I knew that that wasn't going to be on the table for until

until the end, until I was either engaged or the show was over and I had just one person left, whether engaged or not. And I was not going to do it before that. It just didn't feel right to me. It's just not the way I've ever operated. It's interesting because you get off the show and all of a sudden you're engaged. And so in addition to the physical step,

There's so much to learn about somebody. And you guys have, you know, 50 years of life experiences completely separate that you really need to see if kind of your... Obviously, you've learned that your core values are aligned, but there is such a learning curve to like really to see and to almost undo...

other like kind of behaviors and different things that you navigated for so long with John, it's a big, it's a big thing. So it was kind of like getting off the show. And then I would assume you're looking at each other and you're like,

Where do we start? Exactly what happened. It's hilarious. So you do you take like this leap of faith, you really do you say, okay, you know, like, there's so many really good things. And like I said, from the very beginning, I don't need to be engaged at this end of this process. I want to leave this show with a significant one person that I want to explore how, you know, our lives would work together or that we would work together.

But I did feel pretty strongly about Chalka. I did feel like I was in love with him. And, you know, I thought he might actually propose to me and he did. And I had in my mind that I would say yes, that I was going to take this leap of faith. I don't have to, I don't have to marry him, but it would be nice to leave this process with the real commitment. And so I said, yes, obviously when he asked me to marry him. And then we went back, we were staying on a ship and we went back to the ship and we

and we went into, he was in a suite. We were both in suites. So I went down to his suite. I changed my clothes, got on the evening gown, went down to his suite and he had a bottle of wine there and two glasses and he poured them and he goes, so tell me about yourself. Were you nervous, Joan? I would have been nervous. Yes, I was. I mean,

I've engaged in this person. I was really nervous. You're like, I need cocktails. Liquid courage. I did. I need liquid courage. It was like one o'clock in the afternoon and we drank two whole bottles of wine, I think. And we really just sat there and got to know each other. We talked about kids. We talked about marriages. We talked about things that we talked about a little bit on this show. But once again, I didn't want to reveal things about my kids or parts of my life that I

would embarrass my kids or not, you know, I wouldn't want on TV. And he was the same way. So it was finally our chance to just be free and open and talk about whatever we wanted. But we were really lucky because Batchelor does a really good job of fostering your relationship during those months where you're not public yet. So you, you know, you finish filming and you have like three months before the finale and they, you know, they get that you need to like, you know,

like, you know, date kind of, you need to be with each other and figure out. So we have these, they're called happy couple visits. And we have five of them, which is more than anybody has ever had. It's like conjugal visits in jail. It's like going to jail and like, you know, having the room, but instead it's in a beautiful home.

in some of these beautiful Airbnbs in LA and you have a pool and a tennis court and some of them. So it's, it's lovely. And they give you food. You say, we're going to cook and they'll get you to do your grocery shopping for you. And they just give you time to be together and actually, and, and that,

first meeting was weird also because we hadn't been together in like three weeks because they um we'd stopped filming but we you know there was time there was a chunk of time where we couldn't see each other for like three weeks and then we finally went on our first um a happy couple you know weekend which is like a four-day weekend and um I remember I got to the house before talk and I was like this is so awkward like he's just gonna come I haven't seen him I hardly know the guy

You do look good on FaceTime. So hopefully you guys FaceTime regularly. We did a little bit. We talked a lot. We didn't FaceTime quite as much because he would be working and I'd be in my car or whatever. For some reason, we didn't FaceTime all that much, but we talked like five times a day. So we certainly were getting to know each other really well.

but we were both super nervous coming into that house and he I got there first he got there about an hour later and he walked in with the suitcase and he comes in and he gives me a kiss and we were right back where we were before so like it was just like we didn't skip a beat we were right back kind of to where we were when we left when we were in love and we you know we're you know

Figuring each other out, we got to that point. And then every visit after that, and I said we had five, every time it was better and better and better. We became more solid. We knew each other better. But we still hadn't dated out like in the real world.

So we, you know, we dated in like a bubble. So we finally, you know, after the finale started to go, you know, got to go out. We went to New York City right at the finale and spent a week there. And then he came to my home and we spent time here. I met some of my friends and, you know, spent time with my family. And, you know, now we've just kind of we kind of moved back. We worked backwards. We got engaged. You guys have a rhythm. And do you feel that when you have introduced him to your couple's friends? Yeah.

Or the kids, like, are they open and warm? Are they judgmental? Do you feel nervous? Do you feel uncomfortable? Like, how does that play out when you're bringing him into your world, which was obviously a world with John for so long? Yeah, it was a little nerve wracking. And, you know, we happen, our finale happened to have happened to occur right before Thanksgiving. So it was like the second week in November was when we had the finale.

And we made plans for our families to be together for Thanksgiving. So that was really nice of him because he usually does something else with his family for Thanksgiving. And his kids said they would come, you know, to my house, which was really nice. So both his kids came to my house and they stayed here along with, you know, Chuck obviously was here. And we kind of merged the families in a really kind of busy weekend where there's a lot of other family involved. And it wasn't just our two families. I have a big extended family and I wanted to respect that, you know,

It was actually most of the people that we get together with for Thanksgiving is John's family. So I didn't want to change that for my kids. Or I'm still very, very, very close to my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law. I mean, they were part of my life for like almost my whole life, honestly. She raised you. Yeah, kind of. Like she was, yeah, I was like 20 when we met. So how did that go? I mean, was it challenging? Was it...

What did that look like? It was just chaotic, honestly. My daughter hosted it at her house. And so we all went there. So we had a couple of days here and then Thanksgiving occurs and we all go over to her house and there was like 40 people and it was chaotic and everybody wanted to meet Chuck and his kids and

It was exhausting, to be totally honest. It was a really, really hard way to do it. We did it all at once. It's done now. Now everybody's met everybody. But it wasn't fun for me at all. I was nervous. I would have been nervous on edge to the whole time. Yeah.

And we started at like three o'clock and by eight o'clock I was freaking exhausted. I just, I was like, we got to go. And they felt the same way. I think we were all in bed by nine o'clock that night. We were just, it was just a long, hard day. It's an emotional day also because everybody, it's like there's this big pink elephant in the room. Like he's not John. Yeah. And like, we all see it. So like, he's now like stepping, you know, stepping into the role of being my person and, um,

It's hard for everybody to accept that. It was hard for me to even present it. So that was an uncomfortable day. Did you debrief with your children? Did you debrief with your children afterwards? I think we kind of had that conversation about that being, you know, like a little bit of a weird day.

Our kids happen to get along really well together, though. So it's kind of fun. So the next day I had made plans for us to go to a local brewery, which is really fun. And they had these big things. They have these yurts where you can rent. Oh, I like yurts. That's fun. Oh, my God. They're so fun. And they had big fire pits. And it was in a town that I grew up in. So I know everybody there. And we went there. And that day was fun.

That day was very social. Well, the pressure was almost off. It was like beyond. Do you feel that the fact that both you and Chalk have experienced grief and lost partners, that that gave you both a deeper understanding and a comfort level, which was created more of a connection? Yeah. So I think that when you go through a loss like that,

that the little things become less important and you realize that. And maybe, you know, part of that is probably maturity also that just naturally that would have happened. But you look at like the small crap and it just doesn't matter because you

Because you realize how short life is. And you don't realize it until you, like, come face-to-face with mortality. And that doesn't happen until, you know, a loved one dies. If you die or a loved one dies, that's the only time when you actually face it, like, with somebody. Like, you know, I faced mortality with John as he died. And Chalk did the same thing with Kathy. So you have a different...

look at life, to be honest. It's more fragile and more valuable. My best friend died of cancer over the pandemic. And he has fallen in love with a widow who lost her husband suddenly in an auto accident. And their relationship is unbelievable to watch. Yeah. You value life and you value your moments so much more and easily. Yeah.

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I don't know about you, but I am so ready for a winter getaway. This year, I'm heading somewhere warm and I'm thinking of the beach sun and zero layers required. But first, shopping at Macy's to get vacation ready. I'm grabbing a new swimsuit from Adore Me, breezy dresses from Mango, and some stylish sandals from Steve Madden because let's be real, a great vacay starts with the perfect wardrobe. And of course, a new carry-on from Levi's to pack it all in. No matter where you're headed, you're going to find a new swimsuit.

ski slopes or sandy beaches, Macy's has everything you need. Shop now at macys.com. The new year's here. It's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cashback rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palmolive products on your shopping list and in your house right now. We're talking brands like Colgate, Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso, and Tom's of Maine.

And right now, you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate-Palmolive products. Here's how it works. Spend $20 on their products, get $5. Spend $30, get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt, and upload it to cprewards.com. It's so easy. That's cprewards.com. So grab what you need, or maybe try something new, and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping.

and start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. Rewards available while supplies last. Limits apply. U.S. only. 1-125-331-25. For full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com. So, Joan, though, I mean, it's so fun to watch you and Chuck, and you both have that sparkle in your eye, and it just seems like you really, really click. But now that you're, you know, there's no more cameras rolling, all the rest, and you're doing this long-distance relationship, like,

What are the challenges that come with that? And how are you navigating kind of the distance and trying to figure out, do we move forward? Well, maybe she's moving to Kansas. Are you? I'm not moving. I thought we were moving to New York. I thought we were meeting in New York in a sexy pad and having fun there.

That is true. We are doing that. We're trying to find a place, but it's really, really hard to find something in New York, to be honest. They just disappear. The minute they come in the market, they're gone. So that's been a little bit of a challenge. We're still working on that, and it's still our plan. But we also have the plan of him spending time here, me spending time in Kansas. He's been here more times than I've been to Kansas. So I owe a Kansas trip, which I'm actually making on Thursday. Okay.

So I'm going there again. And then we're driving to Oklahoma to visit his father. So I'm doing the whole Midwest tour next week or this coming up week.

I don't think that is really a challenge. To be honest, right now we have been fortunate since we're pretty soon off the show. You still have kind of opportunities. People still want to see you around and I'm sure all those will fade very soon. But like iHeartRadio invited us to go to the Jingle Ball and we've done a couple other things. We've been invited by people online

to be on shows. And like we were on Drew Barrymore at a couple of weeks ago. So they invited us to New York city and we got to see each other there. So we get invited to enough things right now that we organically see each other once every couple of weeks anyway.

And then we make an effort. If we don't, if we're not seeing each other in every 10 to 14 days, we plan something. So the few times that we haven't had a reason to meet, he's come here or we've been in New York city, we've planned a trip and then we just got back from Cancun. So we went on a vacation together. So we've done a good job of making sure that we see each other. In fact, like I think we're coming up on maybe the longest time that we haven't seen each other and it's feeling starting to feel kind of crappy, but yeah,

we're both really busy right now. And like the absence makes the heart grow fonder is kind of thing that I believe in. And when we see each other, we're really happy to see each other. Like we are, we're like newlyweds, you know, we're like, we need to be together at that point. And it feels so good. No, that makes sense. Do you think that people that are looking for their chapter two should be more open to long distance dating?

It opens up more options. Absolutely. And I wasn't. So I think I've learned a lot from this experience. I have kind of a philosophy. And I talked about this actually before I went on the show. CNN asked to interview me. And it was right after Gary and Teresa had broken up.

It was fresh off the break off and it was fresh. It was actually, they interviewed me like right the day that I was announced that I was going to be the Golden Bachelor, the day after. So it aired the day after. And they asked, they said, what are you going to do? Like, obviously this distance thing is...

is what caused that marriage to break up. You know, how are you going to handle it? And I said, well, I just want to put it out there right now that I am not moving from Maryland. I have three grandkids here. I have four kids that live there. I am, and I have a 92-year-old mother and an 86-year-old mother-in-law that I can't leave. So I am not leaving Maryland. So if somebody thinks that they're coming on the show and I am going to change that, that is not going to happen. But I do realize that then that's a whole different conversation. It's going to take a lot of effort.

to make this relationship work. And it's going to be required that, you know, you have to make sure that your schedules are, you know, you're going to match your schedules. It's going to require travel. It's going to require an effort to see each other. And I am so willing to do that. I will bend over backwards to make sure that that part we take care of. So it's just a kind of a, you know, you have to look at it in a little bit of a different way. But I also, in my mind thought, this is like really a bad thing. You sound like Thelma.

Yeah. Is that right? Thelma loves long distance. I love long distance. And I feel like having a chapter one that was very traditional and it was wonderful. But again, I think there's so many more variables in chapter two with families and kids and lives and jobs. And I was just going to say, I mean, are you seeking a more non-traditional relationship kind of, and I don't mean that,

there's not the connection and the bond and all of that, but just the day to day, you know, it doesn't have to be under one roof. Like, are you seeking something different this chapter? I'm not sure if I'm seeking anything yet, but it's playing out in the way I kind of expected it to. Cause I know that truck still has a business in Kansas and I still, I have grandkids and I have, I'm busy too. I, I,

I feel like we could have the best of both worlds. So if I have something important going on here, he has no problem flying here and doing what I need to do. Or if I have something like I'm doing this wine collaboration in California. So he and I are like we're meeting in California because that's kind of a fun thing to do. Kind of a sexy jet setting life. I know. People see this as a negative. I think it's actually really fun. I think it's hugely uplifting.

for us right now. We get to have all these really cool experiences together. And maybe I see one day, you know, maybe next year, maybe the year after, maybe five years from now that I'm going to go like, okay, you know, it'd be nice to have you around, like to cook dinner together and to like start living a more normal life. But right now this is really fun and I am not looking to change it. And it's probably been, I would think, is it been helpful for your children? Because I mean, life has changed. You obviously have a loved one now.

now, but it's probably nice that they still have you to themselves occasionally. And you know, the routine of what was pre-chalk. Yeah. I think you're right. Like it hasn't been a big upheaval to their lives. So it hasn't changed all that much. Like I'll go away for a week at a time or 10 days at a time and then be home for a week or two weeks at a time. And so it's a little different, but it's not a lot different. The difference is they really like it when chalk comes here because they really like him. He's just a fun, easy person to be around.

Yeah. So he stays here and, you know, we come down for, you know, like to have coffee in the morning and, you know, one of my kids will be here. And I feel like they like him maybe more than they like me. They really have fun. So he fits. He really he really fits.

And he has a great sense of humor. He's fun to be around. He's also has a very calming what I mean, he has such a calming energy about him. And when I looked at the two of you, when we were all in Pebble Beach, I saw the excitement and the attraction, but I saw peace, like a real kind of peaceful connection with the two of you where you guys just felt safe with each other. That's like such a great way to put it because that was something that when John passed away, um,

I felt like floating untethered. Like I just was like, I, it was just me, even though I have a great family and I have so much love in my life, I felt very alone and that it was like me against the world. And he like grounds me. I don't feel that way anymore. I feel like I have my person and that he makes me feel safe.

I felt like he grounded me. We interviewed him at Pebble Beach and he was full of sage advice. And you can tell he's one of those guys that it's not that he needs to be the center of attention and speak all the time. He has a quiet confidence. But when he does speak, it really resonates with you. And if anyone hasn't watched that episode, I would encourage them to do so because I think it was so interesting to talk to all three of the bachelors

when we get them and they're different takes on everything. It was, it was really, it was, I think it was really helpful for us is when they're different. Joan, we talk a lot in our friends group about sharing or recycling men. Were there any of the men that were in either, you know, in your season that you would kind of pivot to, to one of your friends or single friends?

Yeah, kind of. So there was a thought for me that, and not just, I didn't just think it up. It was like a sub, you know, conversation subject with the golden bachelor women. So the women that came off of Gary season. So there are 21 of us. They were all very interested in when I came home from golden bachelorette and I,

I really couldn't talk about like who had gone and who didn't until on the show, you could see that they had been eliminated. And then I could kind of address relationships for each one of those people as they got eliminated. You became a matchmaker. I know I became the matchmaker. I did. And they, I would be getting messages the next day, like after the show aired. So whoever got let go that night, people would be like, what do you think? Do you think like he would like me? Would you would, would you think we're being a good match? And I definitely had some matches and I actually worked on several and

unfortunately, none of them really worked out. The guys on my season were skewed a little younger than the women on Gary's season because I was younger. Gary was 70 and I was 60. Interesting. And so, yeah, so the ages didn't match up. I had guys the age from 57 and the older

oldest one on my season was 69 and it was Pascal and he was by far the oldest. I think the next one to him was maybe closer to like 67. And then most of my guys were good for his age though. Yeah. Yeah. He's very fit. He's a good looking guy. So it sounds like you dated a little bit before, obviously, um, the golden bachelorette and you dated several men on the golden bachelorettes. You definitely are, are, are a force and have probably a lot of advice to give what red, like subtle red flags

Do you think that people ignore when looking at chapter two dating? So I think people have like a tendency to date a certain type. So some people like the bad boys, some people, you know, you kind of are attracted to something and it's always pretty consistent, like who you're attracted to.

I think that the smartest thing to do when you're dating is to try to get away from those because if you've been dating for a long time and it hasn't worked out, it's probably because you're not looking for the right kind of person. You sound like the Jay Shetty podcast that was on today with Jillian Turecki, which was all about what you're basically saying right now, which is date differently than what you've done if it hasn't been working. Yeah.

I really feel strongly about that because I too have a tendency to date like a certain kind of guy. I've been actually chalk is very much like my late husband, John. So I actually, I think I'm a good picker, but I'm not sure I've seen a lot of people who aren't good pickers who particularly the people that like the bad boy. And like, I feel like, okay, that's something great to do when you're in high school and college. But when you're looking for a relationship, that's a bad guy. That's not the person you want. Or they like a playboy. So, you know, Pascal is a bit of a playboy, you know,

I wasn't going to pick him because I knew that about him. He self-eliminated. That was all good. All of that worked out the way it was supposed to. I feel like red flags are the way you're dating, not the way you pick because you have a tendency to pick the same kind of person. I certainly do. I bet both of you do. And that you should widen your net a little bit. I heard a podcast recently about...

fixing your profile on a dating app and that you should widen the, um, the people that you're accepting messages from. So like, like make it a bigger age gap, um, that you, that you say are okay, or don't specify a religion or don't specify a, um, number of miles that they need to be within, like widen all of those parameters. So you will get introduced to more people and you'll have a better likelihood of finding somebody better.

or something's a better match for you. Yeah. And that's insightful because I feel like when you think of red flags, you're always thinking about looking at other people and their red flags. Right. But it's really what you're saying is it might be within us. You need to listen to that podcast. Thelma. That's what it was today. So Joan, did you have, speaking of red flags and me and bad boys, did you have crazy wild butterflies? Yeah.

The minute you met Chalks, I know a lot of people say that butterflies can be almost a warning signal. And I'm so I'm always trying to sit with myself on a date and say, you know, butterflies, no butterflies, good thing, bad thing. What do you think?

So I did have butterflies, which was really good. So when he stepped down the limo, I thought, okay, that's a good looking guy. He's a great dresser. I think he's a good dresser too. He is a good dresser. He does. And he doesn't know, he thinks he's not a good dresser, but he is very, really good. He happens to look really good in clothes. He also looks good out of clothes, but he looks really good in clothes. And because he's tall and he's pretty thin. So he's in shape. He has really wide shoulders, broad shoulders, which just kind of just make your body just look

good anyway. And clothes hang so well like that too. Yeah, it just has a presence about you. It's like, there's a man. So I liked him when he got out of the limo. When I really, really liked him was kind of when I needed to feel a comfort and was at Disneyland. And that was a...

kind of a stressful as a first date. So I was stressed. I was, I was, I was really nervous. And I came in on this like little train thingy and they dropped me off at the plane on the train platform. And he's standing there and I immediately felt nervous.

again, the word safe with him. And I thought he was really sexy and he put his arm around me and he made me feel comfortable and I had butterflies. And I was like, this is really good. And that date was phenomenal. Probably the best date I've ever been on. Was that before he left? Was that before he... So were you sad when he left? Did you think he was going to come back? I was devastated when he left. Okay. And that's a sign too that you knew you liked him. That was the day I knew that he was the guy.

Oh my, I was going to ask you that. I was going to ask you that because I feel like it was obvious. I mean, it was written all over his face that he was just enamored with you. And I also think it was kind of ironic that the most pedestrian of dates, no offense to the bachelor, you know what I mean? That you had, you had like, that was the most pedestrian of all the dates. And that was your guy, you know? I mean, it wasn't like flying off in the helicopter or doing anything super sexy. Well, also Joan had left her show too. You just didn't come back.

And so that was a whole thing. So I, when I came to the mansion that day was literally the, you know, like, you know, very soon after our date and he was standing waiting outside for me. And I was like, that's exactly what they had me do when I had to tell Gary, I was leaving. It was exactly. And there was that bench was sitting right there, which was the exact same bench I sat on and had to say goodbye to Gary. And I was like, well, something is going, something's not good here. Like, this is bizarre. I was going to the mansion to go on a date with, with Jordan.

I had a date that day. I was arriving at the mansion to go on a date. And there is standing, chocolate standing there at the front door waiting for me. And he said, hey, can I talk to you for a minute? I'm like, that's exactly what I said to Gary. Hey, I need to talk to you for a minute. And we sat down on the bench and he said I had a very unfortunate thing happen last night. I knew his mom was really sick. So my mom passed. And, you know, I need some help figuring out what I should do. And I was like, you have to go there.

And so he had a stepfather, elderly. And I said, you need to go see your stepfather. And so he decided he was going to do that. And that's absolutely the right decision. But when he walked away, I remember, and he said, I will be back. I'm coming back. And I thought, yeah, he thinks he's coming back. I thought I was coming back. And

And I mean, he couldn't get back there fast enough, though. I'm sure that he did tend to his family, but I felt like he must have taken the concourse back. Like he I felt like it was like he was back and I was like, he was not going to let this opportunity go. I thank God because he left and I, you know, I had to function that day. I had to go on the date and, you know, I didn't want to. I needed to be true to that guy, to Jordan. You know, he was excited he had a date and I did the best I could to have a great time. And I think we did a great job.

Your heart was not in it. But I was worried the whole time that I...

that chalk wasn't going to come back. And in my mind, when I finally got to like be off a date and like have some time to think I, my mind said, he doesn't know if he can come back and how in the world am I going to do this whole journey? Because right now, like he was like number one in my mind. I said, I will have this unanswered question forever. Would it change the course of the entire show? Well,

I would have changed the course of the entire show. And I am not positive I would have gotten to an ending of picking somebody. I think I might have just, he would be too big of a question mark in my head. I don't think I could have gotten all the way to the end and found somebody else. He was pretty clearly the guy that I...

like had kind of honed in on, but I was also really careful as we were filming because I thought that really early on, I thought that at the Disneyland date, that this was pretty, a really good date and that he, I felt really good about him. But I, I know that people do that a lot on bachelor and they kind of hone in on a person and they get like,

four weeks in and discover that that person is not the person they thought that he was or she was. And then they have to pivot and they don't have very much time then to establish another good relationship. So I was really careful that every person I dated, every date or every interaction, I treated them like they were the person. Like I was really making sure I got to know them really well and was giving them, I gave everybody like an equal chance, even though in my mind, I did feel like,

Chalk was the person. That's really good advice for the, for the future bachelors and bachelorettes to give everybody their day in court. And you did. And I felt like everybody felt that and was they, they constantly, I think told you how appreciative they were that they had your full attention. I feel like I really got to know some amazing men and, um,

Like that's part of the journey also is that even though you don't pick everybody at the end, you end up with these really like unique friendships that you've gone through this weird journey of dating. And like they are all your old boyfriends, which is just kind of a funny thing to say, because we all don't really feel that way. I mean, you know, it's a it's a quick journey. It's only eight weeks. You never get that invested in anything.

unless they're like the person that you're picking. So everything is like, you hold back a little bit so you don't dive like totally in and they hold back a little bit too. You have to, you have to protect your heart. It's like it was college again. It was like watching college again. It was fun, but it's been so amazing to talk to you.

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