"Fairy Drag Queen Guinea Pig" (w/ Chappell Roan)
01:15:03 Share

Spring is in the air, and at Minky Couture, we're celebrating this joyful season with warmth, love, and the softest, coziest blankets. Whether you're cuddling up after an Easter egg hunt or gifting a little extra comfort to someone special, our luxury blankets make every moment even sweeter. From our Minky family to yours, happy Easter. May your day be filled with love, laughter, and all the best.

All the cozy moments you can dream of. Visit us online at minkicouture.com or stop by one of our stores to find your perfect Minky hug today.

Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. Wow, was that the first time we were ever out of sync? Bodes well. Honestly. Bodes very well. You know what I was distracted thinking about? Uh-huh. I'm surrounded by tops. We've got service tops, camera tops, publicist tops. You. No!

Can I reveal something about Bowen Yang? This is the big thing that I wanted to reveal on this podcast. The other day in a personal text exchange, so that's how you know it's real because we never lie to each other. It's only ever transparent, real, honest, and more. Bowen goes, I think I legitimately might be bi. Which is not the same thing as being a top. Yeah, but the girls you're talking about wanting to have sex with. You are conflating like...

having a dick. Okay, don't do sexual politics with me right now. All I'm saying is Bowen has a crush on, go ahead, come out. Say it. Lucy Dacus. But I've always had this. You love like a powerful singer-songwriter. Lucy and I exchanged a powerful glance at Forest Hills. This was like three years ago. Oh my God. She was opening, she and Max Ahachi were opening for Conor Oberst. And,

And she had just got, she had just done her set. This was right when Home Video came out, her album. And then I just like glanced over at her and then she glanced over at me and we kind of smiled at each other. And then that was it. And ever since then, and then obviously since then, we've like talked and hung out, but like,

There's something powerful about her. Since then we've talked and hung out. It's like, did you ever watch Nobody Wants This? That thing on Netflix? When they kiss and that song's like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's like that synthy romantic pop song. Yeah. That played when you looked at Lucy Dacus across the room. And don't think we ever forgot about your thing with Katie Gavin. Oh, yeah. That's a good love triangle. This is my trend alert. Here we go. It's always with a gay woman.

And maybe there's a safety in that. It's like, well, there's no stakes in this. So I can safely from afar pine. So I can't wait to see how this episode turns out. Anyway. Because...

This actually is a huge moment in history because I can't believe this is true, but I think I actually have two things on record on this podcast. One was there's an episode where I literally go to you. Have you listened to Driver's License by Olivia Rodrigo? And you go, what is that? This is when it first came out and that's on record.

And I believe me bringing up Chapel to you is on record on this podcast. That is also on record on this podcast as well. It's on record for a lot of people who listened to you and they were like, I'm going to check this girl out. It was late 2022 when I first sort of heard about it. No, but then it was... At the Fonda. No, it was April 2023, I think, you were at the Fonda. And I remember it was a special evening because you could feel the energy. And I remember she sang Pink Pony Club and then...

She was saying, the Pink Pony Club is here. And I was like, oh, wow, it really feels like it is here. Like the L.A. show. It's about L.A., etc. That was a really special night. And I left that being like, she's the one. She's one of the ones. And now she's here. She's a Pisces legend. She's a Grammy winner. Everyone, welcome. Chappell Row! Hey. Thank you. You won Album of the Year at our Culture Awards before your album was even out. And I've always wanted to ask you how you felt about that. I was laughing really, really hard.

I was like, that is...

That makes sense. Like that is so funny. I'm dumb. It was... It's so silly. It was earned. I remember the song that changed everything for me. I was like, wait, what the fuck was casual? Do a lot of people say that? I didn't expect that. I like literally casual was the biggest bitch to get done. Really? It was like a lot of tense moments because I was like, I think it should be huge. I think it should be a really big pop song. And my co-writer was like, I don't...

I don't think it I think it's supposed to be sad and so I was like wrong and that's happened so many times about my songs so like

It was, it's like, even the subway, you know, like I'm just, I was like, nobody's going to give a fuck about this. Like, I don't. And now people are clamoring. I know, they're clamoring. So like casual to me, I was like, I'm just going to put it out and just not even care because I am like synth pop girl. This is not super synth pop heavy. But people liked it and now I love it. I always like things more when I like it. Yeah.

You don't think it's both like a moody song that also builds this grandiosity? Because that's what we love about it. I think I get nervous writing songs that aren't like beat heavy and like dance forward instead of it's kind of like a wallowing and meekness.

misery type of vibe. I hear that. I mean, when I left your show, when I first saw you, I was like, I feel like the only way to get it across is like, it feels like, and this is lame to do this, but it feels like Kesha meets Annie Lennox. You have this fun, you came out in this shit blonde wig and

And then you came back out with your hair and you were like, it's me, Chapel. Chapel Roan. And we were all like laughing because there's like an awareness and there is like, this is before you were calling what you do drag, but there was such a huge drag element. You had a drag performer open up. But yet you have this like

haunting, gorgeous, like, ethereal voice that I was like, I don't think we have this out there. So that's what I meant by like, Dakesha meets Annie. That's so sweet. I mean, those are icon girls. Yeah. But that's uncasual on a song like that.

It's funny to hear you say you're more comfortable doing the beat-heavy stuff because what really took me, and maybe this is just the place I was in, but was coffee, was kaleidoscope, was those moments that are so important and deep in your show. Thank you. It is so different live. You can really, really feel the ballads. Because I'm actually better at performing ballads than I am pop songs just because I have...

A ballad voice. Way more suited for him than I am. But… So that's why I feel like the ballads go so heavy live because…

I found better. Well, it's like, it's, it is just like, it's almost like a different singer. You know what I mean? Because I guess it's like when you're needing to do the pop thing, do you find yourself being like, okay, now I'm a different pop girl? Yeah. Yeah. You have to like, I can't sing Kaleidoscope and then go, you know what they say, never waste a Friday night on a, you know, it's really, it is a different, you have to like lock into different characters. I feel like for each song, especially like My Kink is Karma. Yeah.

It's like I'm less worried about hitting the notes rather than just like screaming as hard as I can. You know. Right. That was an important song for me at the time. I was like, oh, wow, this is... It's an important song for me every day. I feel like. I'm like...

I actually still feel pissed. Like, I don't know if I'll ever get over it. I don't know if I'll ever not be mad. Is it kind of the song's fault, though, that you're locked into this, like, sentiment? Yeah, and that's what's so hard about writing about exes is because you're locked in, especially if you hate them. And, like, I don't... Luckily, like, I don't hate a lot of my exes. I have so many songs about my exes, about different people, about people I never dated but still love with. Like...

And I don't hate them. But it's really hard to sing songs about people that you hate because you still hate them. Everybody gets two in life. How many do you have? How many exes? That you hate. That you fucking hate. How many people I fucking hate? Exes that you fucking hate.

I think everyone gets... Is it more than two? Just greater than or less than two? I feel like high school people just don't count. Well, you know what? Your feelings were real, but it doesn't count. My feelings were real, but it doesn't count. So one. Okay. That's healthy. That's normal. Only one. But I've dated like...

a lot of dumb people. But, you know, that's not their fault. It's not their fault. You almost feel bad. It's almost like punching down and then all of a sudden they get the distinction of like having a song. And that's also hard. It's like, well, fuck, you elicited such a response from me that I felt moved to write this thing. It's like it just I get angry every time I. But that's good. It's real. It's like it's very real. And that's why it feels real about the ballads is because like.

I am feeling that whenever I sing coffee. Yeah. There's been so many times that I've performed coffee and I'm just like in the middle of the song. I was like, yeah, I'm done. Next song. Like, because I'm like, it's just. Have you actually ended it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've just been like, I can't. Yeah. I don't want to do this. That's so like form breaking and cool. It's just like, it's just not worth the rest of the show, you know? Cause like then you,

Because you always do balance like in the middle. For me, I do. So then it's like a loop, loop, loop. And on like a high note. Yeah. And sometimes I'm just like…

dreading it so much when like the ballad part the people like the picture you vibe because like I have my wig on the mic stand and I drag my wig around and I make it like campy but I hated picture you too because I was like this is boring I'm bored like I want to move around on stage I want lights I want like the pageantry yeah it's either like I do

a fully ballad set or I do all pop because yeah and that's why I like festivals because there's not enough time to do right what about when you're doing a cover if you're doing bad romance yes what is what is are you just channeling gaga are you feeling are you like finding a way in for yourself bad romance low-key I always felt like a fraud singing really yes because I was like oh my god I can't

live up to what I think I should be in my fucking head for this song. Like I like and that's like the hardest part of like covering songs that are so iconic. It's like people associate Bad Romance with like pure it was the biggest fucking pop song ever. Like and I think I just

I do covers because I want to feel like what's in my body. Like what will it feel like in my body to sing Bad Romance in front of a crowd? And like that is the closest I'll ever know to what Gaga maybe feels. Like I'm like, okay, this is how it feels to like rage on stage to Bad Romance. Or like this is what it feels like to sing Barracuda in front of like 50,000 people. And so I can like leech off of

the other artists' experiences in that way. Yeah. You know? So, but Bad Romance is different because I was just like, she... Everything. She's everything. I can't match it. That's what I realized. It's like, I can't match it. But does the feeling of I kind of can channel what it feels like to be Gaga singing this song, does that compete with the fraudulent feeling or is that the same thing? It's like, even Gaga's putting on a persona when she sings that song. I just think that

I can't cover every song I want to. I think it's like reserved. Yeah. Like, you know, and that's the coolest thing about pop. It's like, you can't fucking, ballads like are more attainable, but pop,

Yeah. You know, what's funny is it's like with Good Luck Babe, it's so hard to sing. And like you do see a lot of people taking cracks at it. But you have one of those songs now where it's like that's a Chapel Roan song. Do you feel like that? Bitch, I can't even sing it. It's hard. I can't sing. I cannot sing in the original key. Like in a set of songs. If I was just doing it only, maybe. Yeah. But like I don't even when people sing my songs, I'm just like I feel bad because like

that hurt. I know how hard, like, I have compassion for you, girl. I was just like, good luck. I don't even care if you fucking mess up because like, thank you for trying because I can't even nail it. Like, and also like, I can't sing fucking in pitch. Like, like I am maybe 70% of the time, but the songs are just that fucking hard. Yeah. And like, it is cool that sometimes, you know,

I mean, it feels good. Yeah, of course it does. It feels good to be like, only... Yeah, that's my song. So is it like when you're recording, is it... I guess, how do I ask this question? From a place of technique? Yeah. Do you have the song out and you're like writing it straight through with like Dan or Justin, whoever you're writing with?

And then you can like play it on the piano altogether. Or are you going back and like revisiting different sections of the song? Because that one really feels like it's so many different things. That was... Well, it was originally called Good Luck Jane. Right. And like we rewrote it. It was such a... It was so annoying. The best songs take...

The longest. The longest except Pink Pony Club. That took one day. Really? And like, good luck, babe. We recorded the entire song four times because I could not just like find a key that made sense. Yeah. And so I feel like for Naked in Manhattan, it took two years to write

the post-chorus which is like touch me touch me touch me yeah yeah so we like come out usually with the chorus or like the song title and then we'll like create melodies around that and then we'll refine from there of like the lyrics and it's always the first edit we hardly ever

Ever. The only song that I used the first draft off was Kaleidoscope. Oh, wow. That's so beautiful, though. Thank you. But like everything else is edit after edit. And like, you know, some days it feels like shit. Yeah. It has to. Feminine Amidon felt like shit to write. Really? Yes. And that's crazy, too, because it's such a fun song. But it's like you're like banging your head against the wall being like, fuck. Because it was like this is that puzzle was hard. It doesn't make sense. Like I was like,

banging my head against I've been banging my head against the wall with the subway because I'm it just songs can work live certain things can work live and they do not work in the studio right or like for like my kink is karma like every performance I scream really loud at the end of the song

I don't do that in the recorded version. It doesn't fucking work. Same with The Giver. It did not work. Like, first of all, I said the wrong thing on SNL. I was supposed to say something else. Like, I got nervous and said some... Like, fucked up the wording. It kind of, like, makes sense 80%. But... What was the wording? Like, you know, like, country boys can't treat a woman right. Only a woman knows? Yeah, only... It was, like, only...

A woman knows how to treat a woman right or something. Yeah, it was just, it just didn't, it was like almost made sense. But also I was like, SNL, it was so insane. Like it was just so scary. Your whole career, your whole career, everyone says nothing is harder than SNL.

Nothing is harder than us. It's the sound mixing. It's all that. It's like, but also like that it is so live and there is no, like your band is live. That's like the scariest part. It's like the movie magic, like girl, it's rare that you see anyone fucking playing like anything for real on TV. Like it is not. Most of the time.

most of the time for real. Yeah. Because it just doesn't work like that. It works live, but not like on TV, televised. It just, the sound doesn't work that way. Right. So like, I was just, I was so fucking stressed. So I'm like, the fact that I even performed The Giver and like made it through is amazing. No, it was so great. But I know that like, it is so awesome to see like, everyone be like, where the fuck is the bridge? And I'm like, boom.

Do you not think I tried? Yeah. Do you not think I tried over and over and tried different sayings and tried different... The bridge was the hardest thing to figure out. And now I have an even better idea for it live. That's the other thing. The live shows matter just as much as the songs themselves to me. Yeah. Because that is actually...

That's alive. You get to mold it and grow with it. And it gets to change. And it, like, it just becomes a character in itself. Just, like, the live performance. Like, everyone can kind of, like, wait for that character of the song to come out. Because what you're talking about in terms of recording and in terms of, like, cracking the subway, let's say, is...

not to use this phrase again, but you have to, that's locked in. You are locked into this thing. And that's like the thing that people are going to revisit the most readily and accessibly. For what it's worth, I feel like both Pink Pony Club and The Giver on SNL were fucking major. I was listening to the SoundCloud the next day for like weeks. Like that's, and I'm like, and then the track release, I'm like, fuck, this is so hard for me sometimes when like an artist puts out

a live thing before the release and then the track comes out and I'm like, I like the live version better. Do you know why? Why? I don't. It's called demo-itis. Demo-itis? Demo-itis? Demo-itis. Okay. Demo-itis. You can fall in love with demo. The demos. So like, what happens? School us. Dr. Chappell. And this is like, this is to my detriment too. This is to every person's detriment of like, I get a demo, I hear it, I play it for my friend.

And then I go back in and like work on it, play it to them again. And they're like, I just liked the other one better. And because you have demoitis, because you've like attached so much to this, like to you attach memories, like you attach all of these things to this one version of the song. It's actually not.

as good like as the actually recorded version. Like straight up because the song wasn't done. There was like pitchiness all over the map and like sometimes that's magic but it's not what I want in my life. Yeah. Tracks but or sorry, mic recorded tracks but you fall in love with what you hear first. Yeah. Of course. Because

You hear a different version and you're just going to hate it because it's different. Yeah. That's the thing. I just go into new things. I'm like expecting to hate it. It's like, okay, Kaylee, like you are going to hate this. Get past it and like look at it for what it really is. And that is how I get past to releasing how I even release music. Yeah. Because it's like, I'm going to hate it. Just live with it. Like feel it and like,

take a step away. Yeah. Because like all the people who have been living with the giver on SoundCloud or whatever, of course they're going to hate it. That is like... They're attached. They're attached. And like just because it's different, you'll hate it. Because that's like human nature. Of course. You know? So I was not surprised...

at all and people were like, this doesn't sound, this is losing the magic. And it's like, I think it has the magic. I think that's really all that matters. And also like people will just get over it. Yeah, they will. Because it's like, it just sounds better. And for the subway, you know, it's just going to feel different and different doesn't always mean bad. You just have to like really take yourself out of it and be like,

This is different and it's okay. And now you have two versions. And now you have two versions. Because the SoundCloud version remains. Yeah. And if that's the one you love and there'll be a third version when you come out and, you know, do it live. Or yeah, they perform it at all these festivals coming up. Yeah. So it's like, it's demo-itis. Just remind yourself. It's like, like I, I, there's so many TikTok songs that I've like, oh my God, this is so fun. And I didn't realize it was,

either a cover sped up or like something. And then I hear the original version. I'm like, oh, speed it up. I like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, I like the TikTok one. And then I like go back and I'm like, actually, the artist put that out on purpose because it actually fits the art better. Of course. So I understand people were like, where is the bridge? Yeah, of course. It was probably a man who decided that. Oh, God. No, baby. Yeah.

I did decide that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, do not forget, this is a lesbian country song. Like, this is like a big deal. Yeah. Like, this is, for me, what I've always wanted to do. So it may not be what you want. Yeah, right, right, right, right, right. There's this like interesting, entitled, I'm not going to say this, but it's like, you're not customer service. You know what I mean? You are not there to like,

take in all of these complaints and like synthesize them into it can't affect your work I had to stop reading you gotta stop reading it's probably just better no I deleted Instagram and TikTok off my phone on Sunday because I was like I actually like if I want to protect my creative psyche like

Because I'm writing right now. Yeah. Nothing. I have to build a force field around it. And the things, if I want to for sure have a bad day, like 100% guarantee, I read the comments. Like, and I just have to remind myself. You know the stove is hot. Let's go touch it. It's like, okay, if you want to open these, you're not going to feel good. Yeah. So now it's just like. Never. It's never going to be worth it. It's never worth it. And like.

It just hurts my feelings. I thought I would grow out of it hurting my feelings. Build a thicker skin or something. Yeah, I thought I would become callous to it. And sometimes I hate that I'm not callous. And then other times I'm like, actually, thank God I have feelings about people hurting my feelings. Absolutely. Because that is like,

sad if I don't know maybe I'll get there one day maybe I can find a healthy medium but I don't know people like saying it's not about like my art anymore all of a sudden it's about me and how I look or how how I talk or my humor it's like that is the insufferable part all of a sudden and not like the art and so that's what hurts my feelings it's like when my art even

you know, like with the giver, you are 100% allowed to judge it, hate it, love it, rip it apart, critique it. Like that is the point. Fair game. That is fair game. It's art. I think like everything else, I'm like, that's outside of my art and performance. Stay with performance. Critique it. Like that is visual art.

visually like critique my fashion. That's fine. It's just when it comes to your personality and like my mistakes that I make in public. It's like

It is ruthless. They're not mistakes. But the thing is, even if they are or aren't mistakes, human beings are allowed to make them. Of course. And I think that like one thing that people just, whether they can't reckon with it or they don't want to because like people feel complicit in it, is it's like, it was like unprecedented how quickly it changed for you from here to here in terms of like the amount of eyes on you and the amount of mouths flapping in regards to what you did. So it's like,

Even in a world where it's like we've seen people go from like whatever it is, like zero to 60 or overnight success, whatever that means. Not like this. Because I remember we were at Coachella and we were like different. We were so excited at Coachella because we were like, oh, and I was with a couple of gays who didn't know who you were yet. And that was, you know, April 2024. Yeah, it was a year ago. Meanwhile, at the end of that weekend, like,

Not only did everyone know who you were, but everyone had an opinion on you, et cetera. And then Govbo was a whole other fucking thing that was 15, 20 different like think pieces. And it's like that you're never going to get, you are never going to get what you want out of that one individual human being. It's impossible. And I don't think there's enough,

awareness of that or like, you know, people don't take accountability for their own actions in that regard. Do you feel that? Do you feel that? Do you guys feel that? I mean, we're not feeling it on your level. No, but every level...

Of course. It's a level. It's a level. Every level is a level. It's rule of culture. Rule of culture number 76. Every level is a level. But of course, and it's also, it's like when you have something, when you have like something that you've put out there that people have really connected with and people have a relationship with you in that regard, it gets harder, which is why I'm happy you just deleted the shit because you're in creative mode right now and you need to be.

Hair thinning is a very common, very frustrating problem that many men deal with. From stress and nutrition to hormones to lifestyle, so many internal factors affect what you see on the outside. Luckily, Nutrafol is here to help. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist-recommended hair growth supplement brand.

Trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. Physician formulated with 100% drug-free ingredients, Nutrafol supports healthy hair growth from within by targeting key root causes of thinning, stress, hormones, aging, nutrition, lifestyle, and metabolism through whole body health. Building a hair growth routine is simple. Purchase online, no prescription required. Automated deliveries and free shipping keep you on track.

Plus, with a Nutrafol subscription, you can save up to 20%. You'll have access to free naturopathic doctor consults and a Headspace meditation membership is included. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code CULTURISTAS.

Find out why over 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutrafol for healthier hair. Nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code CULTURISTAS. That's Nutrafol.com, promo code CULTURISTAS.

Spring is in the air, and at Minky Couture, we're celebrating this joyful season with warmth, love, and the softest, coziest blankets. Whether you're cuddling up after an Easter egg hunt or gifting a little extra comfort to someone special, our luxury blankets make every moment even sweeter. From our Minky family to yours, happy Easter. May your day be filled with love, laughter, and

all the cozy moments you can dream of. Visit us online at minkicouture.com or stop by one of our stores to find your perfect Minky hug today. I wanted to ask you, like, how is it going in terms of you treating yourself creatively?

Creatively, The Artist's Way. I don't know if you've heard of it. That book taught me how to protect my creativity and like how to be really treat myself really well and be really gentle with myself. I'm really good at respecting my artistry. What I am not good at is respecting like

my feelings outside of artistry. Like it's so interesting. I'm like very good at being gentle with like my critiques on myself and like letting things, you know, it's not going to be great the first time. You may have to like water it and watch it grow. But when it comes to like me making a mistake in life, it's like that's when I'm not good at like giving myself some grace or just like whatever. So my creativity is very...

Sacred. She's sacred and healthy. Yeah. Like I just spent the whole last week doing writing and I wrote some songs I really love. And like that's that is magic. The fact that I could do that amidst like the past year and the fact that I can't like do a lot of things like I used to normally and like feel normal. That's great. That's awesome. It worked. Like, yeah, it's just when it comes to like my self-confidence or confidence.

or like, you know, just saying something I didn't mean or whatever, how that's how like when I'm really hard on myself. Right. Well, you know what that book does? Early on, it tells you to like,

and think back on the people early on in your life who, like, tried to, like, cut you off creatively, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still go about this process with, like, one specific person. Is this the theater teacher? This is the theater teacher, whatever. This is an iconic woman in history. You have to, like, treat them the same way that you, Chapel, treat your exes. Yeah. You have to, like...

Fucking go for the jugular in your brain with these people. And I think my thing is we have to keep doing it now. Now that there are these little side quests popping up where like, oh, there's this person who is being a little booger. This person's being a fucking asshole. It's a continuous thing where you have to tell these people who make you feel like you're making a mistake, which you're not. You can't even think of them as mistakes because these are just people who are trying to like...

end you creatively and you have to protect that. Yeah. You know? And art is like, for me, I'm such, I do have a thick skin around like my art. It's really hard to see something you see online and be like, oh, maybe that's supposed to be funny.

Right. But everyone's like, that's serious. Yeah. And that's actually fucked up. And it's like, huh? Maybe it's just not one about you or two serious. Well, can we talk about also like when people were dragging you for doing your mood thing? I was like, I was like, I bet she thinks it's funny. I did. Yeah. I didn't feel like it.

Sasha and I, Sasha Colby and I were talking, you know, and I was just like, I mean, yeah, everyone's mad. I was like, but I'm not. I was like, I was like, is she okay? And Sasha was like, yeah, girl, she's laughing. She's loving. I was like, okay, well then that's fine. I'm like the way people don't have to get mad on my behalf. Right. But we're fine. Yeah. Yes. So what is there to be mad about? Also,

This is what happens. Like, that is SNL. It's comedy. Yeah. Like, it is so lighthearted. It was like, to me, harmless. Oh my God. And for people to, even if you were to push it further, harmless. Yeah. It's like, it's comedy. I don't understand. Like, I just don't know the line anymore. I think people just get worked up

over someone that they are very... It's like a love bombing thing or it's like limerence. It's like they're obsessed with you and so they will die if anything goes wrong. It's parasocial. I mean, what it is is it's like I need to protect this person. They've expressed that they need help or I feel like I'm projecting what I might need in that situation. But it's hard. Like you're saying, like when you look online, is it supposed to be a joke? Is this thing supposed to be funny in a time when we are...

Nothing's funny. Right. When nothing's funny. When very few things... Life is not funny right now. Exactly. And meanwhile, it's like... That was a really complicated, weird time because it was like... I remember getting texts from people being like, are Bowen and Chappell okay? I was like, first of all...

they don't really know each other that well. Second of all, I'm sure they are. Third of all, why are we assuming that people don't have senses of humor? It's like, it's chaperone y'all. It's like, I was watching your show and that's why I was describing you as like, there was like this fun pop Kesha element. You come out in this shit blonde wig and you're like, it's me chapel. Like as if we weren't supposed to know. I'm like,

This girl is funny. We're all having fun. It's pop stardom. It's, you know. Even if like, even if you didn't like think the mooding sketch was funny or anything, you don't have to say anything. Yeah, right. There's always silence. Like you don't, you can always not say something. Right. And you know what? People sticking up for me in that situation or not sticking up for me made me feel no different. Right.

So I didn't feel protected and I didn't feel unprotected. So because I didn't need it either way. Sure. Yeah. Because I was not offended. Totally. I want us to have a serious conversation about this. What do you love about service topping? Okay. I didn't know what service topping was. But do you identify as one?

I read an article. You read an article. And to me, is it like stone top? It's this is I had an encounter in the last year. Not not recently, but someone who was like, what do you want me to do to make you feel good? I'm a service top. Oh, said these words to me. Like I get off on watching someone take pleasure in what I'm doing.

A true giver. I'm sorry. Isn't that just sex? I'm so sorry. Yeah, honestly, that is, thank you for saying that. I'm so sorry. Service? Sorry, go ahead. They are, in their mind, they are servicing you, which sometimes, I mean, I'm sure we've been in situations. In a kinky way?

And I wouldn't even, I don't even know if they would identify it as kinky, but like sometimes it's like, I want to have sex because I want to feel good. They want to have sex because they want to see you feel good. Does that make sense? But that in turn makes them feel good. And so it's, you know what I mean? Okay. Sometimes I think we go crazy with the labels of everything. I don't understand. Okay. I mean, I, that's why I asked if it's kinky because it's like, this may not,

make me like I may not understand this pleasure thing for you but I'm gonna do it anyway because like you like to be dominated or something or like whatever but to me like

I just thought that's how sex worked. So what does being a giver mean to you then? That just means I want to do things that make you feel good. Yeah. Like I will do things. I will just give my time. Yeah. And if I take that, if I'm a taker, aren't I giving you something in return by taking it? I think that's where all three of us are kind of getting a little mixed up. We're lost.

Maybe I'm lost too. I don't... I'm a pillow princess. I know exactly where I am. Okay, good. Just kidding.

Are you? No. No, I'm not a pillow princess. I'm sometimes a pillow princess. It feels good. I think maybe I just like said take it like a taker. I wasn't really like actually thinking about anything. That's amazing. I was just like, oh, that's fun. Yeah. Because a giver and a taker. Yes. Take it like a taker. Like, that's literally where my mind went. But when I saw the article about like service tops and whatever, I was just like, cool. Did not know that existed. Wasn't the intention. Like,

I just liked… I do love that about pop culture is that they will make something out of nothing. You know what I mean? Like they made this… People will make like…

this entire outline of like what each thing thing yeah like what each character i played means in like the lesbian community and i literally was like don't know what you're talking about i just wanted to wear a blazer like i wanted to hold a plunger you were talking on apple about like really what it was was you wanted a george straight type of song right like you wanted to feel on stage like that kind of swaggy country like character yeah which i think is

different than like i get off on making you oh face i thought that was like the point of set it is like for me i give you pleasure and that gives me pleasure this is the healthiest discourse on sex anyone's ever had but it you know thank god dr ruth is dead she's rolling in her grave one time i asked dr ruth what she thought of prep

And she didn't, she couldn't, it did not compute. She was like, what? I was like, it was at the Sundance Film Festival. I was like, it's so gay guys can have unprotected sex. She goes, well, I hate that. No. And then I was like, oh, oh, okay. And then I, but it was fully Dr. Ruth. And I'm thinking she knows like what prep is and she did not. And then I was like, okay, maybe we've, we've missed each other in terms of like the sexual revolution. Yeah.

The reason I say this is actually a huge reset for people, the way people talk about sex in this day and age is that it has been so divorced from pleasure. Yeah. I think for a lot of people. That's interesting. I mean, that is why, that is my experience when I hooked up with men. Yeah. Really? That's how I knew I was gay. Uh-huh.

Because it was like never felt like it was about you or for you. No, I just felt so performative. Yeah. And like, so like, I just did what I thought they wanted, even if it didn't feel good. And maybe that's what to me when I'm like, okay, service top. Is that. It's like another role. Do service, even if you don't want to. Right.

I don't know. Like, I just want to do what my partner makes them feel good. And when I make them feel good, that makes me feel good. Right. So I think I would not really know what to do if someone I was hooking up with was only stone top. I don't think I would really know what to do because I would want to do something for them. Yeah. Are we saying that the term service top is a little bit

it feels like it's a given thing. It's like saying, well, I'm a,

I'm a sensory bottom. It's like, of course you are. You know what I mean? Yeah, you have something in your ass, you're going to feel that. I'm best when I bottom and I can feel it. Well, yeah. What are you talking about? You know what I mean? That's crazy. No, but you know what though? It takes time to like, I think a lot of people say this stuff because it's more a thing of, it's less them expressing what they actually like and more people being like,

no, like I do have sexual agency. I do have a sexual identity when the fact is it takes a lot of time. Like I don't even think it wasn't until my late twenties that I was even having real sex that like consciously took me out of what I had seen in like porn.

porn or what, which I do think. And I have so much respect for everyone like in the sex work community, et cetera. But I do think when you're ingesting a lot of it young, you of course want to emulate the things that you see. And that is like inherently not going to be natural to you every time. So it's like, it's like in that way, it becomes a teacher in a way that can be a little rocky. It wasn't. And I was just thinking, sitting here like,

You know, I had a great sexual experience like last week and I was like, congratulations. Thank you so much. And shout out verse also flip you. Yes. Amazing. I've been, I've, I've really started like owning myself as like the bottom that I am, but then all of a sudden love. So, but that's what I guess what I mean is it's like, I need to stop telling myself I'm one thing. I think we all need to stop telling ourselves our one thing and be open to

to those different experiences and expressions because I think a lot of it is just us wanting to belong in something. Yeah. That is so real. It's so nice when there's a label that fits you perfectly. Right. Because that makes you be like, oh, like when I, what is the, what is the one that is where you only are sexually attracted to people that you're friends with? It's like, I don't know that. It's a, it's like you have to have like a really strong relationship to like feel like

Like you want to hook up with them. And it's not even just like intimate. It's also friendship. Is it demisexual? What is it? I don't know. I'm not sure. It's, it's,

It's Ross and Rachel. But when I heard about that, I was like, oh, that makes sense to me. Like, I can't, I don't want to just hook up with people I just met. Like, that is why I'm so uncomfortable when I'm hit on. Yeah. Like, because I'm like, I don't know you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And that is why I get myself in trouble and date my friends. And then, like, you know what I mean? That is always what happens. Uh-huh. And so, like...

That's why I'm so... It's such a turnoff when people are so bold at the beginning. Yeah. Because I'm like, I don't know you. You gotta watch those anyway. If people are really bold at the beginning, my experience is, okay, this is for you. Yeah. You know what I mean? We've experienced some love bombing and I'm sure we all have. And it's like, there's no way you're like this. Yeah. I've even asked the question. I've sat back, cocked the brow and been like,

How? How can you be this? And then they have another line. The one I got was, we deserve to have good things. We're good people. Where'd you read that, motherfucker? Where'd you read that? Next. Think of something smarter. Snapplecap. But people like... Period. Snapplecap. Snapplecap. I'm never surprised anymore that...

When people have rehearsed the whole thing, like you find out later they had a bit that they were going to do when you sat down at whatever it is they were meeting. Like they research things to say to you up top with your friends, especially someone like you. You're talking about like people that research things about you. Yeah. No. Well, yes. But also it's like I'm going to say I'm going to say this joke about a celebrity because I know he likes celebrities or whatever. That. No, I was thinking of like people that.

You can't just Google. Oh, right, right, right. Like whatever. I guess like for me, that's like gone. And probably like for you, like people. It's gone. It's gone. Like people can like kind of guess what you might like and like manipulate a sentence that maybe would work best for you because they know you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like a regular bar, I'm always, you know, before, I guess. Before last year. Before last year. Yeah.

If I like had a pickup line, I'd be like, that's I can only laugh. Yeah, it's hilarious. Because I'm just like, but they had to try. You know what? That's the thing is it's like they're trying and everyone's trying. It's like some people think if I go in with an arsenal of things to say and I really like, you know, dress rehearsed what this is going to be, I'll feel better about it. But, you know, sometimes it's just like it is worth being like, OK, when are we going to get to the real you?

Because that could take a long time. I feel like… Do you feel like if people know who you are, it's like a turn off, turn on or… Just be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Right? It depends. It just depends. It does depend. But I'm very weary if someone knows who… If someone is a fan and I like…

have hit on them or something and like started like a relationship with them and I did not know they were a fan. That is scary to me. Yeah. Because I'm… Because I feel embarrassed and also I'm like, I don't trust you. And like, are you screenshotting everything we're saying? Right. Are you… I just get really… I've become so paranoid about that stuff. Like…

I'm like, girl, I'll just talk like this all the time because it was freaking lip readers. Oh, I know. The lip readers. We were talking about that recently. It's like... Which, God bless the lip readers. We need those girls. We do. It is fun when you want to know and you're on the other side of it. But like... They ain't right all the time. No, they're not. I'll tell you that. At the Grammys, you're like, it's fucking open concept. It's crazy. All these people are looking down at you. It's almost like it's designed for that. One thing that they really did, this is the recording out of me, had posted like...

watch Chapel, watch Benson Boone or like watch Sabrina Carpenter, watch this person, etc. And it's just like, why are we watching these artists watch the thing? And then all of a sudden you're like,

your finger starts going like, should I click? And you're like, I mean, no, it's weird. But why is that available? Because they want so bad to catch you. That's the only reason. They just want to fucking catch you. Why wouldn't you be paranoid if like that's on your mind? That's what I'm thinking about always. I'm just like, yeah, I have to think about all the time. I won't win. It's not that I can or can't win. I won't. Right.

Right. Like no matter what. Literally. I will not win this. You're not customer service. That's all. But also it's like I'm not customer service and it's everyone else's expectation like against my entire humanity. Like it's so crazy. Yeah. But it's not their fault. It's like that's how celebrity culture is where we find our happiness and

are like depths of hell. And for the first time, your comment matters. For the first time, something you say, people notice. Yeah. And that's why the big comments are all mean. Because for the first time, your voice matters in a country where you've been told that you never will matter. Yeah. So that's why I think the psychology, just my personal psychology around

why people hate celebrities online. That's like why the biggest, all you look at the comments, the biggest ones are the meanest. Right. Because finally, finally, finally, finally, something you say is validated. Yeah. After all this time, after you feeling so helpless, after everyone turning you down and saying that you don't matter.

the mean parts of you do online. And so like, I don't blame people. Of course they're going to hate. It's like all that there is left. Is to be mean because it's incentivizing a mean snarky. And

the meaner you are, like, the more attention you get. Right. It doesn't get them, like, it doesn't get them past the ceiling of, like, the ceiling of snark. A comment section. Right. Of the comment section. That's the other thing. It doesn't get you past the comics. Like, it's not like it's giving you a fucking job. It's not like it's getting you respect. It's not like it's getting you, like, friends. Mm-hmm.

It's awful because everybody, and I'm saying everybody, at the highest levels of this kind of

that is like what they're dealing with. It is. I'm just telling everybody like from like, like from what I've seen, which is not too much, but it's like, oh shit, like even in small glimpses, like at SNL, it's like we just, we just, you just cycle through like different case studies and fame. And it's just, that's the common thread. And it's really fucked up. Anyway, we should move on.

Spring is in the air, and at Minky Couture, we're celebrating this joyful season with warmth, love, and the softest, coziest blankets. Whether you're cuddling up after an Easter egg hunt or gifting a little extra comfort to someone special, our luxury blankets make every moment even sweeter. From our Minky family to yours, happy Easter. May your day be filled with love, laughter, and

All the cozy moments you can dream of. Visit us online at minkicouture.com or stop by one of our stores to find your perfect Minky hug today. We want to ask you the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, Chapel Rome, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? So basically, this can be a movie, a music artist, environmental, something about growing up, just whatever it means to you. The culture that made you you. I'm really glad that...

that guinea pigs have their own culture online because I'm a guinea pig girl. Wow. Is this going to be a thing? We've never talked about that. Yeah, no. A lot of people don't know that about me. The guinea pigs were in, were on SNL for The Giver. Oh, yeah. In the background. Yes. Forest animals. Yes. The guinea pigs were back there. Talk about guinea pig culture.

Well, I'm just obsessed with them. I had four at a time, but they passed away. They do that. But I am obsessed with them. I think they're the cutest animals on earth. They're good. I worked at a guinea. I volunteered at a guinea pig rescue for a year. I...

love rodents in general. And I love the guinea pig community online is awesome. I love that community. I think the culture and like all seriousness that made me feel like me was drag. At first, I was very freaked out by drag. I was like, I was like the clutch the pearls girl. Is that coming from where you're where you come from? Yeah. I've never like the first time I went to a drag show, I was

17 or 18. And it was Hamburger Mary's. Oh, wow. And I was like, oh my God, why do they keep saying anus? That's disgusting. They do that. Yeah. And I was like, I just went, I was like, that,

That was so fun, but why did they have to just make everything so dirty? I feel strange. Very Rocky Horror. Yeah, yes. And I was like, what the hell? And then I just got addicted to it. Yeah. And that has taken like a long time for me. Yeah. Like that is in my, actually in my blood now. And like to realize all of that

how it freaked me out at first was really just me not having any gay culture at all expressed in my life whatsoever. So like, and there was no sarcasm like that. There was no like, I had no idea who John Waters was. Like, and like, it was so cool to like see

a whole community of people being gross on purpose for the sake of being, for the sake of pearl clutching. Yes. Like that is amazing to me. I love tackiness. I fucking love bad hair. I love bad style. I love camel toe. I love, I love, love, love a bad dye job. I love roots. I love like, I fucking love,

love when people get their teeth knocked out. I love like

I love that shit. One nip slip. Yeah, give me a nip slip. That's the least you could do. Yes, yeah. So that culture of like trashy on purpose is so freeing to me. Yes, yes, yes. I love that and the guinea pig culture. And I also really appreciate the two girls, don't remember the names, who also believed in fairies with me. I love the fairy culture. I think that they're real maybe. I don't, I'm just going to say that. And I really appreciate the fairy culture.

Because fairies make me happy and I lied to everyone that I saw them. You are a fairy drag queen guinea pig. Thank you.

Did you know that? Yeah. And you've known that. You knew it. You knew it. You've always known it deep down. I like, you know, I love that. I love that. Also, there's been a real awakening, which I grew up on the Barbie movies, like the crazy animated ones. I saw a compilation the other day of the Barbie animals, of how fucking crazy it was.

And like Barbie raised me. But fairies and Barbie is a huge thing. Barbie fairy-topia. And that is where Bibble came from. And Bibble is basically a flying guinea pig. Yeah. Do you feel like the fairies visit you when you're writing, when you're being creative? Are you channeling the fairies in a way? Are the fairies in the walls? What are your muses like?

Like, I think the fairies are your muse. I usually, I would say yes, fairies visit me. But I think like the way I write now is from like, I take things that are really fucked up and then make it really like...

I don't know. Like, it's the same with, like, the subway. The lyrics are usually always darker. Right. And they become, like, very, very dark. And then they become, like, light. You do a brightening draft. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's always, like, heavy, dark. And then, you know, then the fairies come and twinkle their fairy dust. And it's, like... Yeah. Maybe...

all of a sudden can actually be on the radio. Yeah. Sorry, I've given like three cultures. No, no, no. They're also good because they're sharing to each other. You need to keep sharing. I want to return to guinea pigs.

The sentence of the day. Because I had hamsters when I was little. Yeah. And one of the most traumatic things I think I've ever been through. Did I tell you this? Every story. They were named Chip and Dale. And one day my dad said, I have to talk to you. And I was like, what? And he basically was like, we don't have Chip and Dale anymore. I was like, what? They had eaten each other, Chapel. That's what happened.

They had eaten each other alive. I don't know if it was throes of passion. I don't know if they had a gay fight. They ate each other at the same time. Chip and Dale killed each other. It was, and then one didn't even win. That's Betta Fish. What is that? Betta Fish. They fight each other. They kill each other. It couldn't compute. And now getting older and knowing human nature and animal nature, I sort of get it. Like they were cooped up together for a long time. God knows. They were both boys? They were Chip and Dale. That's hard.

Boys are territorial. They're vicious. It's true. But what were they territorial over? Like the space? They just, you know what? Fun fact about guinea pigs. Yeah, say. You can't, normally, most of the time, you can't have two, more than two together. And like, you're lucky if they bond correctly as two boys. Like, you have to like,

Bond them correctly or else they will fucking like try to kill each other. Wow. Maybe they just like did not get what they were just not bonded correctly. Yeah. Or they were, uh,

their hamster i don't know yeah did you did you have gay ones i only had girls girls do really well with like multiple girls oh my god isn't that always the case it is okay it always is the case yeah do you want to like have one now to like have around with you do you have i wish i had there what is so like guinea pigs are not really children's pets like they're

way more difficult to take care of than a dog or a cat. Really? Yes. How so? Because you can't just like pour them a bowl of food. Like,

They need a specific type of hay. They need vitamin C. Like they need a specific type of fruits and vegetables. Like you have to give them supplements. And you also like have to clean their cage. They can only have certain types of bedding. You have to exercise them. You can't just let them wander around. Like they're not potty trained. They have to be cleaned. And like they need bubble baths. They need their nails trimmed. It's like not easy. Right.

No, it sounds very serious. So many people come to the rescue. We're like, this is my first pet. I'm nine. And I'm like, oh, and I think that's why so many people have so many traumatic stories because they're actually such difficult pets to have. And maybe I'd maybe we just didn't know that because I'm imagining it's the same like sociologically, I guess. I mean, they killed each other. Right. But everyone has a crazy hamster, guinea pig or gerbil story. Gerbils.

I can relate to the rodents. As I get older. You personally, Bowen Yang? I'm a rodent. No, you're not, girl. Yes. Well, okay. I'm a high maintenance. I'm little. You need your vitamin C. I need my vitamin C. You need your pellets. Your hay. I need my hay, hun. You know what I mean? Can I tell you, I'm vitamin D deficient. Me too. I don't know. Are you? So do you take like a vitamin D capsule? I must. You should. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's like sometimes getting out there in the sun is like, you know, it's better in theory, but then you get sunburned. Can I ask you? Yeah. Why do you, speaking of the sun and New York, cruising? Yeah.

And I, this is like, I, someone asked me this, like a gay, a gay guy friend asked me the other day. It's like, why don't lesbians cruise? Huh? And I want to know what you think. This is what I think. I think because gay sex is a lot more transactional and a lot more projection-y. So it's like, actually, it's funny. Like this, this person that I was sleeping with, we went on our first date and he was

And he goes, yeah, I don't hook up a lot because I feel that it's a lot to do with like projection and I don't really need that. Like talking about what we were talking about earlier about how like sex actually is like

two people coming together and you usually can, I find this too. It's like when you have like good eye contact with someone or like the conversation is easy. That's why people talk about like the banter and it like just directly translates because that's what this person was looking for and is looking for. And I think even more me and I've never really done like the cruisy thing and the, the like random hookup thing. Like, of course I've done, I've, I've experienced it and like experimented, but like,

I never felt comfortable going in and out of those situations. A lot of people do, and that's great. But I think it has to do with just what gay guys are looking for and needing out of sex, and it's just transactional. Yeah. It can live in a marketplace. It can live in a bathhouse or a park. It can live—there's a space for it. Whereas just to generalize, I feel like among lesbians, it's like it's—

very... There's no, like, end point to sex necessarily. It's emotional. It's like... It's... It's not achievement-based. It's not achievement-based. You're investing time and energy and care for each other in a way that, like, is not going to be condensed into, like, a sexual interaction. Yeah. Yeah. That's our theory. Yeah. Does that sound right? I don't know. I... Imagine you were like, well, the answer is... No, I don't know. It was a quiz. I don't know the answer. I've just been... Because I...

was naive and I went to Central Park and I was like, everybody is loving the sun. Like, everyone is just out in their speedos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was the big audition. Yeah. And I was like, they're like, someone was like, they're cruising. And I was like, what? And so, and I was like, so I've just been asking like,

take on cruising and also why people think that it's not in the lesbian culture as much. I'm sure it is in some capacity that I just don't know about. I'm very out of the loop, but I am just, I'm very curious about it. What people's takes are, especially in New York. Because it's like, maybe it is in San Francisco more too, but I don't really know about it in LA. LA, I think, well, LA is weird because it's the king of this.

looking over your shoulder. It's constant. And you know what it is? It's like, it's not even cruising as much as it more is just like constant comparison and like wondering how, if you can do better. That's kind of, and it's not to, again, I hate dragging a whole city because I love LA and like,

but I have found with dating, it is a lot harder. A lot harder. That's what a lot of people say that I came to New York because LA is like really hard to date in. Especially when like you're not, like, because now I just turned 35. It's like, I'm kind of looking now for something that could be my next like relationship. Yeah. And,

I understand this. Like, I get it. I, whatever. But it can be a little demoralizing as you get older and are looking for something else. So better to just take yourself out of the environment entirely, which is why I moved to New York. There you go. Move back. Also, New York, we don't have our fucking phone stolen as much at the Abbey. Wait, this is a thing. Have you heard about this? You hear what happened to the Pink Pony Club? You talked about it. I know. I...

Is it you doing it? No, we've all had our phones stolen. Remember, I went to... I've never had my phone stolen. You guys have? I've had my phone stolen in West Hollywood. Not at the Abbey, but I've had three friends in one night have their phones stolen. Yes. In West Hollywood. And you know what they were saying? It was... The theory was that it was a bunch of short women doing it. Because they could just... Not that they're picking on the women, but that was the theory.

They were picking on me. I'm sorry. Why not short guys?

The short guy said that. Yeah. All the short guys were like, it's the short women. It was the short women they said. But it became like epidemic there for a while in LA. It's crazy. It's like, I don't know. My friend just got his phone stolen at the Grove. At the Grove? It's crazy out there right now. Barnes and Noble at the Grove. Where are you at? At the Aloe. Oh my God. Is it Aloe? Is it not A-L-O? A-L-O. Oh, I have no idea. I'm butchering it. Son,

Send us clothes and maybe we'll figure it out.

No, but yeah, no, the Grove. Wow. Imagine cruising at the Grove. It happens. One time I saw my favorite porn star at the Grove. Should I say who it is? No. His name is Chris Damned. He's great. Chris Damned? Yeah. That's awesome. But he's not like demonic. He's like quite lovely. I love it. But by the way, a lot of people are my favorites. I don't have one favorite. At the time, I was gagged because there he was at the Grove. Yeah. I was like, wow.

We're a star. Spring is in the air, and at Minky Couture, we're celebrating this joyful season with warmth, love, and the softest, coziest blankets. Whether you're cuddling up after an Easter egg hunt or gifting a little extra comfort to someone special, our luxury blankets make every moment even sweeter. From our Minky family to yours, happy Easter. May your day be filled with love, laughter, and

All the cozy moments you can dream of. Visit us online at minkicouture.com or stop by one of our stores to find your perfect minky hug today. I think it's time. Oh my God, it might be time. It's time for I Don't Think So, Honey. For I Don't Think So, Honey. And I like, I was sort of going back and forth about what I was going to do. I guess I'll do this. Okay. Because we also had a caffeine conversation before getting on. Yeah, okay, I'll do this. So this is I Don't Think So, Honey. It's our one minute segment where we take...

60 seconds, a.k.a. one minute, if you really think about it, to rip something apart in culture. And here we go. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think Sony's time starts now. I don't think so, honey. That coffee gives you coffee breath. That sucks. We need to figure it out. Like, actually wake up in the morning and become that person where I open my eyes and I need caffeine. I don't think so, honey, that it's going to change anytime soon. Our guest is off caffeine. And I feel like I'm inspired by that. But it's just another one of my strange addictions. I don't know.

I now wake up in the morning. And also now I have relationships at the coffee shops. Those are my girls. I have my girls in LA and I have my girls in New York. And I just realized in this moment, I'm leaving my apartment in LA and I'm leaving my girls. That's really hard. They're really sweet. But back to when I was there, so sweet. Fernanda, she also stands Lana Del Rey. She loves Lana. And like literally when I said I was going to Coachella, she goes,

I love Lana. She did this. 15 seconds. And so she's an icon. But listen, the thing about coffee is it gives you coffee breath, which is so bad for kissing, speaking, breathing, et cetera, and more. And I just want to figure out a way to get my fix of caffeine and not have coffee breath, I guess. Here it is. Diet Coke, Celsius, et cetera. But I love coffee. I don't think so, honey. That's one minute. Like, I'm now at the place where...

You just got to go cold turkey on it, I think. I think so. But it's like now it's like so built into my life getting a cold brew right away. First thing when you wake up. I quit over Christmas break. And was it just because like you were getting... Yeah, I was just like going crazy. I was like already too anxious. And so like I was like if I want to actually calm down, I have to take every stimulant away. Every stimulant. So wait, do you smoke weed?

Not right now. Not right now? Yeah. So, like, basically, are you in a place right now of, like, there's nothing going in? Good. I wish. Let me say that there's an asterisk. I want a fuck ton of drugs, though. Like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm on, like... But it's not recreational. No. Not right now. No. SSRI queen? Yeah. Yeah. Come on. I'm... Yeah. I've got my... I also have insomnia. Yeah.

So like, and I'm bipolar. So it's like really hard if you are like not sleeping and doing weed. Yeah. So it's the cocktail, but I do love an edible. I do love shrimps. Thank you, Silo, for sending me a box. I don't know how you did that legally. Hey, Silo, we're a man Bowen and we would love that. I know next time. But I agree with you. It's really hard. Quitting caffeine sucks.

for four weeks straight. Well, because I think... But then you're okay. What we're not reckoning with is it is a drug. Totally. It is a drug. And I actually wondered about that, like people that are in AA and stuff. Like I wonder what the relationship is with caffeine. I'm sure there's a support group out there for you. That's wild. I think we can... Let's do it together. Well, it's like added to the list. I'm now at the place where it's just like...

I don't know why I keep doing this, but I keep moving to a new apartment in New York and I keep associating that with the day my new life will begin. But like you can't. That's like addict speak to yourself. It's like, well, I'll be sober from this thing by age 35 or like I'll just stop doing this on May 12th. You know what I mean? It's like, but why wouldn't you just stop doing it now? So that's me with caffeine and this would solve my coffee breath problem.

Period. I think very afraid of people. Like, I think the one of the worst things that could happen is for people to be like, oh, he has bad breath. That's bad. That is my worst nightmare. Yeah. We're good. Someone saying that. Don't worry.

Anyway. Don't worry about it. Okay. Bowen Yang, you actually came in galvanized today. I did. Okay. So this is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey as Time Starts Now. I Don't Think So Honey ampersands. You're doing too much. Why do you look like that? Why do you look like other ways? Stay in one lane. Figure out one look. I'm going to draw an ampersand right now. Okay.

And now I have carpal tunnel. That is crazy. That shape. And here's, I looked it up. This is what ampersand is short for quote unquote and per se and honey,

Honey, just say and. Yeah. Just say and. You will never be plus. You will never be universal, worldwide, global like plus is. Good luck finding an ampersand in any non-Latin based writing system. Plus is here to stay. Plus, everyone on earth, from children to elders, knows what plus means. It will stand for and just fine. And if you're too lazy to write A-N-D, honey.

honey, you're in for a rude awakening. Lots of other challenges in life up ahead for you. Ampersand, it's not saving you time. It's going to give you wrist problems and you're being stupid. I didn't stick the landing. No, you did. That was great. That was epic universe. Thank you. I have to say,

Especially as two people who often are Matt and Bowen and the ampersand is in there. Don't do it. Don't do it. From now on, it's Matt plus Bowen, right? Matt plus Bowen. We're doing plus. I've used an ampersand recently. I'm going to start to retroactively. You ended ampersand today. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sorry. Thoughts on ampersand?

I use it every day. No! Wait, wait, you're doing what? I write in cursive, and so it's like... Oh, you're so cool. I'm like... I use and sign all the time, though. How do you write it? I don't do that crazy eight thing. The crazy eight thing is you do the reverse three in the line down the middle? I just go...

It looks like an upside down four. No, that's a plus sign. Yeah. Okay. Then I do that. Wait, wait, wait. Cause you've also done it. I don't think so. Honey on the letter nine on the letter nine. No, sorry. The number nine Sesame street. Reach out. You need us there to teach the children. Wait, the number nine. So wait, if you don't like ampersand, how can you stand by the number eight? Because eight represents the number eight and, but it still would give you carpal tunnel. If asked to write, if tasked with writing it and it,

It's easier for me to write eight the numeral than it is to write E-I-G-H-T. And is barely saving you any time from writing A-N-D. I do agree that handwriting an ampersand is like a mindfuck. But, you know, if you can figure it out, which it seems like you have. Upside down four. I support.

I feel like you wrote your topic down and we don't know what it is yet. This is how I do it. Is this the creative process? Are you always carrying around like a moleskin? This isn't mine. No, I know, but I'm in a world where it is yours. Bowen and. That's cheap. Really good.

Thank you. Okay, it's time. This is Chapel Rones, I Don't Think So Honey. Her time starts now. My I Don't Think So Honey is stop. Let people get bad veneers. Let the people have bad veneers. Let them have good veneers. Let them fall out. Let them be pure white. Let them be look like coffee. Let them. Who cares if they don't fit? What if they love them?

What if people love their veneers? What if they saved up so long to get these veneers? 30 seconds. And then you say that they look fucked up. Don't say that to them. Let the girls get veneers. Yes. Like, let them look like buck teeth. Let...

And you know what? It's okay if they talk different. 15 seconds. That's what happens when you change your teeth. You're just going to look and talk different. And it's okay. Stop dragging them. Your teeth are probably busted, which is fine. But you know what? I support you if you got veneers and you're busted. Yeah. And that's one minute. Okay. This is important. Wait. This is amazing. It's very American of people to be like,

I know how teeth are supposed to look. Do you want to know my hottest take? What is it? How people drag cosmetic surgery and drag cosmetic whatever, la, la, la. Yeah. You know what's fucking cosmetic? Braces. Yeah. So you want to tell me you haven't had cosmetic work done, but you've had braces? Got them. Got them. Don't tell me that. We've all had...

gender-affirming care. Me shaving my fucking stubble this morning is GAC. Wow. Not to go there, but veneers...

Are you speaking? And I will say this is especially meaningful coming from you because I feel like your orthodonture is very pristine. Because I had fucking, I had work done on my teeth. Yeah, I had fucking Invisalign for years because I could afford it. Right. How, what was the Invisalign process like for you? I'm actually flirting with it in my brain because people have started to get a little mean about my teeth. Because they're American. Yeah. Wow.

It's only in the United States that it's fucking... People are obsessed. Obsessed. Obsessed. And if you do have straight teeth and they're fucking yellow, they better not be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in reality, bitch, you have to have money to do this shit. Right. It's so expensive. No one has fucking healthcare. No one has kin for fucking braces. Yeah. Like, so I say let them be. I say let it be. We need girls with different teeth. I never thought I had bad teeth. You don't. You do have bad teeth. You know what it is? It's like they're just...

Okay, so this was... There's evenly spaced. This is the truth. This is the truth. I did a very small role in a movie called La La Crocodile. A huge movie called La La Crocodile. A huge film called La La Cro... My co-stars, Shawn Mendes as the crocodile and Constance Wu as herself, as a character. But she was not animated. What was your character? So I played like a Ryan Seacrest, like America's Got Talent host because of course, La La goes and wows the judges at the end. Right. So...

The little boy playing the lead, I'm saying this publicly, comes over to me, like runs over to me and goes, I'm like, hey, what's up? He goes, you have sharp teeth like a shark. And I go, I literally go, not a bad day. You can't say that to people. And he just runs away. And I was like, this little actor just dragged me to hell. And then you know what happened? I went into the goddamn bathroom and went like this.

Like, I mean, thinking like, what is wrong? And then they started saying like, he needs braces. But I also want to tell you, I talk out of one side of my mouth. So, but this is the stuff you Americans have gotten in my head. And then one guy I was, I was dating said, never change the gap. Never change the gap.

No, no, no. Everybody... I've dated a lot of different teeth people. And I like them all. Yeah. As long as you don't have bad breath, who fucking cares? Right. That's my coffee. I love it. I love it. I love when people have gold teeth. I love it when people have missing teeth. I love it. Yes. I just like... Let's see...

It's also just like, bitch, some parents could never fucking afford their kid to have braces. I know. When you grow up, that's just what happens. I know. I know. And you know what? It's fucking hell to have braces. And some people really need them. Yes. Because or else they'll have actual like jaw problems or like teeth will start falling out because it's overcrowding. Whatever, bitch. Yeah. Like.

But I was actually admiring your teeth the whole time. Oh, really? Yeah. I was like, they're so cute. Thank you for saying this. And you have very white teeth too. Yes, Bowen Yang has a great dental situation. But I'm saying, thank you for saying this important thing about let veneers be yellow because they should be a little yellow because then someone's going to say, well, those veneers are too white. It's like, you can't win with them. You won't win.

You won't win. That's an important distinction. It's not about can't. It's not about should. Yeah. Or you might win. You will not. Yeah. That's for my therapist on Monday. Honestly. Are you going once a week? I'm in twice a week. Yes. I'm in twice a week. I have my biodynamic craniosacral therapy. I have my acupuncture. I have my

All my girls. I need to try acupuncture. Acupuncture will slag. Really? I had to do it like 10 times until I really was like, I understand now. It takes a minute. It takes a second. What do you mean? Like physically it's hard to adjust to it or it just wasn't doing anything? Because like,

You know, you're like, I was trained in like only medicine works, like only like taking medicine works. And so whenever I don't have like an immediate, like I take Tylenol and then I feel better. If I go and get acupuncture and I'm like, nothing's different. Yeah. I was like, does this work? I don't know. And it's like with wellness medicine, you just, it's about, you have to keep fucking going and showing up and like,

I realized if like the actual acupuncture itself wasn't doing anything differently, I knew that every time I walked in there, I immediately got calmer. Yeah. And that's enough. And now I believe that

It's doing something. It is, you know. Yeah. It's doing both now. Right. I love that I'm just lying there for like a half hour and I can't do anything. Yeah. It's kind of cool. It is kind of cool. Today was kind of cool. Today was very cool. We're so happy that you're able to come. Like we've been wanting to do this with you for such a long time. And we are, you know, obviously, you know, it feels like even silly to say, but like we are such fans.

I know. Like, we really like, I just think you're the best. You guys made me feel so special. You believed in the art. You were the start of the getting the queer community on board. Oh, no. No, I'm serious. Like, you, like, I remember you guys nominated me. And you accepted speech from Buckingham Palace. Remember that? I did. We loved that. And I was like, I can't believe I'm...

nominated with like Muna. Like that's so crazy. I was like, this is crazy that these were all like nominated. That feels so big. And because I had never been like recognized on a platform that big yet. So that was so, I don't know. I just really appreciate it and that you got it. Like you were the first people in media to get it.

Because you articulated it for the right for the first time because you were like, it's campy. There's lore. And I was like, finally, someone understands that it's a joke. Finally, they understand that I'm everything I'm doing is like an homage or reference to like,

the queer elders. Finally, someone understands that it's deeper than just what I'm doing on stage or writing about. Like, it felt so nice to be understood. That is what was so awesome. I was like, it's working.

And they're the proof. It's so working. And you're so for real. And we just like... It's been truly surreal and a joy even for us to watch everyone really embrace you. And I just hope that even sometimes when it feels difficult, you know just how held you are and how loved you are and how special we think you are. Thank you. And like...

You'll always have a place right there. And right here. Thank you. Let's get veneers together. Thank you. Yes. So we end every episode with a song, Beau. Great. I mean, we could do one of our guests, but also. Also. Let's do it. Oh, caught in a bad romance. Oh, caught

And our music is by Henry Kapurski.