“How The Salad Gets Tossed” (w/ Matt + Bowen)
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from dating and relationships to family and faith, Michelle and Craig give their candid perspectives to the everyday questions shaping our lives and the world around us. Like their first episode where Issa Rae laments friendships that need to go. You'll hear Michelle and Craig's stories about being there for each other throughout their lives, from first crushes and fraught college years to landing at the White House to losing their mom.

For six decades, they've been each other's most trusted counsel, and now they want to be that counsel for you. So if you want to know about the culture that made Michelle and Craig say culture is for them, check out IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, wherever you get your podcasts.

They've had a full day, the two of them. I want you to know how hard we are at work on the Culture Awards. We are...

Busting our ass. Holes. Holes. I am a crater down there because of culture awards in the best way. You know, I have been so... I'm just going to get into it. Get into it. We're going to talk about sex? I was going to say I've been so horny. Great. Have you? No. I actually need to talk to my therapist about this moment because I...

I get horny through travel. And then I realize that the wires are all...

a little bit messed up. So full disclosure, when I was in London, I was just like, you know what? Back in the day, I would frequent a bathhouse every now and then. So I went to the sweat box, which is... And then immediately, once I got to the showers downstairs, got recognized by some lovely DC gay. Yeah, can't do it. And I was like, gotta go. Yeah. It's tough. That's tough. I think Joel Kim Booster had a joke about being too famous for an orgy. Right. Oh, I love that joke. And I was always like, oh, Joel.

Oh, Joel. Couldn't possibly relate to him and his sexcapades. And now I do. Finally. I mean, it's a good thing, I guess. I mean, careers are going great. You know what's funny to me? Like, when I physically get tired...

I actually am a lot hornier. I don't know what that is. I remember back in the day when I would like jam this schedule with like morning activities, I would just get home and I would be physically very horny. But that's hard to reconcile with being actually like totally sapped by the day. But because your body is like, ugh.

I want to like engage in the act, but you're like emotionally like, but I can't like call someone over because that's a huge part of hooking up is actually getting someone over. Is the movements. Is like the literal movements of bodies. Good luck AI with that, I say. Yeah, that's one thing they can't take. Well, I guess they could. I don't know.

No, fucking a robot to me will never have the same. I'm just taking it all the way to like the fullest potential of this apparent technology. Like a whole is a whole, but I also feel like

it's just something about it being a human connection to me at least that at least like I'm still there with sex where I'm like it cannot be disconnected from even though I just said I went to a bathhouse but even then I like it needs to be something well you hope to make a friend I hope to make a friend well it's gotta be a if there's a robot in the bathhouse I go well good luck you're gonna fritz out in about two seconds with this

in this place. Yeah, this isn't going to go well for you, sister, I say to the AI. Remember when Joaquin Phoenix noted with Scarlett Johansson, though, in the film Her, the seminal film Her? But her voice was so good in that. Scarlett's voice. Well, it was Scarlett's sexual...

Oh my gosh. I just want to say, I love Scarlett's vocal journey through her career. Like if you go back and watch Ghost World and Lost in Translation, it's like, it is at a different octave. And I do love that it's sort of developed this like depth over the years. We have to have her on to ask about her vocal journey. Yeah.

And the title of that for the Scarlett Johansson episode, whenever it happens, is already Vocal Journey. But I just want to say, to your point about the energy, like, I am always, I'm going to say, horny in theory. And then it gets to that point in the conversation where, let's say you're on a nap on a hookup app, when discussion opens up about movements, about who should go to whom, that's when I'm like, oh, actually, to

to call back to our Cole of Skoll episode more on Cole in a minute, we go emergency with my closest friends. I just realized I'm having an emergency with my closest friend. But that's a date. That was a date. That was different. That's a date thing. But I mean, it could be a sex thing. Sure, sure. But there's sometimes when like,

Yeah, it just all falls apart when even the second of reality is introduced. And they're like, why is AI taking over? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, to speak about Cole, here's the thing about Cole. Cole is a Tony Award winner. Wow. Most deserving award of all time.

I mean, and you know what was so great about it was I obviously, you know, saw them hit the red carpet looking stunning. And just there was something about seeing them on the carpet, like,

And I just had to sit back and I really got emotional because it actually reminded me about the entire reason why I love Cole in the first place, why they've always been one of my heroes since when we started comedy was because they remind you that there aren't actually fucking rules.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It's like there is no fucking rule as to what you're supposed to wear, what you're supposed to create, how you're supposed to do the decorum of the award show. It actually re-inspired me for the Culture Awards. I was like, right.

Exactly. If they ever had a big fucking idea, they went for it. I'm sure there are always checkpoints like there are for everyone about like, ooh, is this weird? Is this too much? Are people going to get this? But screaming the word yes to your big idea and what your instinct is, is

is what reminded me the other night, like why I love Cole and why Cole is so special and important. I'm so fucking proud of them. It couldn't happen to a better person. I think it is amazing to think about Cole Escola beating George Clooney. It was a wonderful little moment.

little box moment at the award shows. We love George. Love George. At the Oscars for theater. The Oscars for theater, that's the Tony Awards. I mean, it's Real Culture number 50. The Oscars for theater, that's the Tony Awards. But just to place last night's Tonys as another sort of coordinate in the

plane of award shows. That was a fantastic program top to bottom. So fucking good. And it flew by to me. I was like, oh, it's already 11. Okay. I mean, someone said earlier, like the Tonys are the best award show. And I was like, oh yeah. And I'm thinking of it like, oh, I'm glad they're excited. And then I was watching it and I was like, no, actually it is the best award show because it's literally built around

incredible live performance and people that are incredibly capable on screen of executing this stuff reliably day in and day out. So just to know that just around the corner was another sleigh of a performance was, you know, and to have Cynthia threading the whole thing so poised, elegant, talented, the standard of excellence is already so high for her and she manages to rise above it and raise the bar again and again and again. The humor felt like

totally in the pocket, just really good. 10 out of 10, I think, for Cynthia, I think for the whole show. God, that in memoriam was a fucking punch to the gut. Yeah. And everything. Cynthia getting two applause breaks on her jokes while she was in the mezzanine. I think both about Jonathan Groff's spit. Like, that is, that's delivery, capital D, delivery. Yeah, she was excellent.

And also the way to open a show is always debated. Like we're even debating it right now. And you have to be so excellent to open a show like that with an original song because you have to make sure that not only is the person like incredibly good at, you know, executing live television, but it's a song no one's heard. And to get that across just the way that she communicates as a singer, there's so many things to say about how brilliant she is as a vocalist.

But what I was struck by was she's communicating like a new story and a new idea to an audience. And at the end, we were watching it at our friend's house. We were like applauding. We were like, yes, this song that we will remember. It was...

- Truly, truly fantastic. I'm just gonna say something, even the Purely stuff, I was like, I love it. Go off Purely. If any company is gonna own a lot of real estate at the Tonys, the fact that it's an iced tea company, I go, why not? There really could be worse things.

Oh, absolutely. And there are. There's so many worse things than pure leaf iced tea having a lot of real estate on the Tony Awards. For example, famine. So much worse. So much worse. And to even put them in the same conversation, you're joking.

You know what I'm saying? You must be kidding. Oh, I guess the only real note that we have, but this is just in terms of like, this is something that like they couldn't have possibly forecast in terms of vibes. But playing and playing everybody off, I think could have just been traditional. I appreciate what they were trying to do, build it into like Cynthia's monologue. But I think just a standard little orchestral, even a track monologue.

could have been just fine. But I think it was just a mismanagement of like what that would be like and like the vibe of the room, which you can never know until the day of. Especially in a time like now where there is a lot of urgency in terms of what people might say in these speeches and people might want to like leave and end on something really poignant to build into the show that you're actually going to cut people off even with a joke is kind of not

really the move and I haven't seen it work in recent award shows so I'm surprised they tried it here finally we have an end to the debate of who's winning best actress in a musical it was Nicole I applaud this I mean I think both of their performances I thought Nicole and Audra's performances were the highlights of the evening and I think you saw plain as day why they were the ones that were being talked about the whole time I would have loved to have seen Boop

a performance from Booth because Booth is a lot of fun and Jasmine Amy Rogers, had she won, it would have been totally justified. The girl is so fucking talented and so good in this show. But Nicole's as if we never said goodbye was...

Truly the performance of her career. I mean, and she's performed live on television so many times in so many memorable ways in a variety of ways. But that you could tell her entire career had led up to that moment. And I'm so happy she did that song because she's like, no, I'm going to do this.

the song from this show. I'm going to give it. And similarly to Audra, I had been really wondering which number from Gypsy they were going to do. I was nervous that they were going to do something like Some People and miss the opportunity to really show what Audra McDonald is made of. And when they pulled it up the curtain and it was Rose's turn, I was like, oh, here we go. And I mean, she did not disappoint. She gave all of herself plus half. I mean, it was...

- Sick. - Yeah. I mean, so many things about-- we're recording this on Monday-- so many things about last night felt historic. I don't know. It was just like, "Oh, my God." Or it was just like different threads of history being braided together where it was like, you have someone like Audra, you have someone like Nicole, who feels like a vet but kind of is still just kind of making her mark on theater. I feel like...

Even like Michael Arden winning, it's like, oh, this is, you're rewarding someone who has put years and years and years into like executing his vision on Broadway so many times. I don't know. It just was a cool night. I loved it. He's so brilliant, Michael Arden. Like I saw maybe happy ending and congrats to Darren Criss on his super well-deserved award as well. Like,

The fact that he did Parade and maybe Happy Ending two years in a row is like, okay, that guy can do anything. And that's while saying I would have been just as excited for Jamie Lloyd to win for Sunset Boulevard, a show that like blew me away and so happy that won for Best Revival. Yeah, just like...

So much excellence going on. And I read a statistic that you can never really take highest grossing to mean anything nowadays because all the prices are so much higher. So it's kind of like to say that something was the highest grossing year on record doesn't really mean anything anymore because everything is so prohibitively expensive. But I also read that it was the best attended Broadway season in a long time. So it means that there were the most butts in seats. Right.

And it does feel like there's a renewed energy around it. And it's been a really good, solid few years for Broadway, which is obviously a good thing. And it means that we're coming to ruin it. And we're coming to Broadway to ruin it. The second you think it's going to be good, we're coming. We're coming. We're hitting the stage. ♪

All right, everybody, the Tony nominations are out now, which means we have homework. There's so much to see and you can see it all with Today Tix. I mean, that best leading actress in a musical category, it's got some real heavyweights. And you can see all these shows logging on and using Today Tix. It's going to be

A bloodbath in a positive theatrical way. Picture this. You're in the city. You've got a free night and you're craving a night out at the theater. You want something exciting, something fresh, but you don't want to spend hours in line or pay an arm and a leg for tickets. What do you do? You pull out your phone, open the TodayTix app, and just like that, you're booking tickets to a Broadway show or an off-Broadway gem. No stress, no hassle, just instant access to the best live theater in town. Stuff like Sunset Boulevard, Gypsy, Death Becomes Her, and Boop.

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You know what we were talking about last night? Did you remember this? After Nicole's performance, I was like, people forget the number of times she has been iconic. You need to educate everybody on this because this is something I was never familiar with, but I need to know now. Do you guys remember that Nicole Scherzinger, so for years, she's had to be a chameleon because she started out as a reality show contestant on Popstar. She got in the group, Eden's Crush. Eden's Crush. Get over yourself, goodbye. That song. That song.

They had like that one hit. There was like a period of downtime. She was in the Pussycat Dolls. And I remembered her from Eden's Crush even then. She's obviously a huge success as the member of the Pussycat Dolls. Then that ends. She tries her solo career. It goes iffy in everywhere but the UK where she becomes like a thing. So she's a judge on UK X Factor.

In such a significant way, and Simon likes her so much that they tried to do US X Factor. And she's a judge on that with Paul Abdul, L.A. Reid, and Simon Cowell. And there's a moment... This is pre-Britney, right? This is pre-Britney. Yes. This was the first season of US X Factor. And it was Nicole? Okay, keep going. It was Nicole Scherzinger was a judge.

And she... There was a thing at the end of USX Factor where the bottom two vote-getters, it wasn't revealed who got the lowest votes, but they would have to have like a sing-off. And then the judges would decide based on the sing-off who was going through the round. And I remember it's this... It was at the time she was 10. Her name was Rachel Crow. Her name is Rachel Crow. And...

She sang I'd Rather Go Blind by Etta James, a 10-year-old. And she gave it, she sang it like a 50-year-old woman. And she gave her entire life. And then the other guy sings whatever. His name, I believe, was Marcus. And then they go to Nicole Scherzinger and she's supposed to make this decision between the two of them. This 10-year-old girl who had just given everything to this song. And Nicole can't do it. She's like, I can't. I have to put it to the public vote.

And they put it to the public vote and the 10-year-old girl loses. Her eyes widen in shock. She hits the ground and she's screaming at her mother, you promised me.

Oh, no. And it cuts back to the judges table and Nicole Scherzinger is in hysterics, sobbing in Paula Abdul's arms while Simon Cowell looks on and he realizes that the US X Factor has failed. They cut to the commercial and it's a Pepsi logo. And the show ends. And the word Pepsi couldn't have been bigger.

I said, this was the most... That was her last iconic moment. Then I guess she, you know, did Masked Singer and then she did lots of things on the UK West End, etc. But I'll never forget that moment in her career because last night sitting there, I'm just thinking about the totality of Nicole Scherzinger. And it is so many things, but that is a top five Nicole Scherzinger moment for me, a person who has a top five Nicole Scherzinger moments list. Yes.

Now, Simon Cowell, they cut to him. He realized he has a gaze that implies that he understands that. It's over. But then they would come back the next season with Britney. And Fifth Harmony was created.

I think, was that the last season of X Factor? I think it only had two seasons. Maybe it had three. I'm actually unclear. Because Demi Lovato was on that too. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so this is what it was. Because the second season of X Factor had Demi Lovato and Britney Spears both. And L.A. Radio. Yes, and that's when Fifth Harmony was created because there was a moment where Demi Lovato says, only one of you is giving. Right.

And Khloe Kardashian, who was added as a host, this is a fucking mad lib, goes to Demi Lovato, wait, who did you think was the one that was giving? And Demi Lovato just sits there and points to Camila Cabello and says, her.

Wow. You. Wow. Wow. And the rest of the girls in Fifth Harmony sort of look at Camila who's like, mm. We haven't really responded to, I have not really looked into the details, but thoughts on the reunion besides Sans Camila? I mean, I get why they're doing it. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. The Normani of it all continues to completely blow my mind. I do not know how that didn't work out as a solo thing. I know. It's interesting, huh? It's like, in a way, what was her name? Susan Crowe? Rachel Crowe. Rachel Crowe.

first of all so many things i think of gypsy when she screams at her mother you promised oh yeah i i also think of this this idea that like this is why like cole winning a tony is so incredible it's like nothing is nothing is promised especially in show business but just in terms of the normani i'm connecting all these dots very haphazardly but in terms of normani and the fifth harmony reunion it's like and like why that did not take off the way that we all

hoped it would and wanted it to in some ways is that hard work can only get you so far. You know what I mean? But the thing is, I think she did work her fucking ass off. I just think she didn't like her thing that succeeded. Right, right. Because what I had heard was motivation popped off and everyone was like, oh my God, Normani is here. It is about Normani now. Yeah.

And she thought it was too pop or she didn't think it was R&B enough. It wasn't the type of artist that she wanted to be. She didn't even like the video. You know what I mean? All the really successful elements of that were her being like, well, I don't want to be well known for these things. Like, I don't like what this is. So I guess you kind of have to respect someone who's like, look, I understand that.

that this is going to be the thing, but I, yeah, like I was just, this is the most random pull ever. And it's one of the gayest transitions of all time. I was watching an interview with Brenda song. Oh,

And she was saying years ago, like apparently she booked like the lead of this huge film franchise, but at the same time got offered the like two scene role she had in social network. And she was like, I want to work with David Fincher, even though this is a small part, I'm not taking the lead of this franchise that I guess her agents had busted their ass to get her. And then as a result of her making that decision, they dropped her.

But now she's a part of the social network, which is one of the most relevant films in pop culture at that time. And, you know, probably in the last couple decades, you know what I mean? So who's to say she didn't make the best decision holistically. Also, she made the decision that she was going to stand by. So with the Normani of it all, it's like,

Yeah, I mean, she had a huge hit and something that looked to everyone else like it made sense. But if it didn't make sense to her, then maybe that's the question. That's the answer to the question of like, what happened there? It's just she didn't want to be that. Yeah, these are these are these are vital questions for anyone to ask themselves, including us.

Yeah, like do we, I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, it can actually, maybe I'll speak to something. So it's funny because did you see last week? I don't even know if I should be going here, but I'm going to go here. Go. Like last week, Andy had on Hoda.

Oh, yeah. Watch What Happens Live. And he was, he threw your name out there. He threw my name out there to take over for Jenna. I mean, not for Jenna, to take over with Jenna. Yeah. And Hoda was like, yeah, Matt Rogers is great. And all of a sudden I was, I was sitting there watching it and I was just like, oh my God, they're talking about me for this job. Yeah. And I thought that it was like, it was really interesting because I was like, oh, I thought everyone was just being nice by saying, oh, you should do this.

you should do it. Cause, cause they say that on, like, if you go to like the today show Instagram, it's like every time there's a guest job, there's a, there's a guest. Sure. It's like, they should be permanent. They should be permanent. I thought that was just like a silly thing that people were saying to be nice to me. And I did think it went well, but then when they were talking about it up there, I was like, Oh, that's so interesting to have people talk about something that you should be doing or you're right for, or like, you know, that,

no one's even asked me if I would want to do it. Totally. On the one hand, it's like a compliment. On the other hand, it is this like... Total compliment. But on the other hand, it's this kind of like quote unquote fan casting that like could make you feel a certain way. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's not up to, it's not in your control or it's not even up to you like what the outcome is or like what the conversation is.

what the tone of the conversation is. Does that make sense? Yes. Well, it's, I think you probably experience, well, I know you experience it and we do not have to get into it and we won't, but I feel like SNL is also one of the only jobs in entertainment where a lot of people can weigh in about like who's staying, who's going, who's getting hired, who's getting fired, why are they leaving? And it's really interesting, I think, for that to be an element of like what you do as a job.

You know what I'm saying? It's kind of interesting. I'm not saying it's good or bad. And I've participated in speculation like that. Obviously, like we have this podcast. You know what I'm saying? Then suddenly when it's something that's knocking on your door, you're like, oh, wow. Like, it's just interesting. It's a new feeling. Yes.

How do you feel and not feeling? Wow, did you see that text we just got? Yeah, we got a fun text about culture awards. Someone just confirmed for the culture awards and it's going to be a lot of fun. Someone we don't really know that well. I know, but I'm excited. There's lots of exciting things happening. We are...

really, really, really committed to making this a fun show. And the artist presale went out very quickly. We're so grateful. We're sorry if it was frustrating for anybody in terms of procuring them. But the sort of end goal of all of this is that this can be shared with everyone. We've said this in the past, but I think it bears repeating that it's

It's going to be great. Everyone's going to be pleased. We hope. It's going to be the most fun. Thank you for selling it the fuck out yet again. Like you guys do. You guys are the best. It'll be the best one yet, for sure. You know what I finally got to watch all of? Which we were in, but I didn't get to actually consume as a whole. It was overcompensating. Overcompensating. Have you watched? I am...

Up to our episode. Yeah. It's funny because the one thing I had been hearing was, what year is it? What year is it? Can I say one of my favorite things about the show is that we don't know what year it is. I think it's like one of the most fun things about it. It's like her singing My Chemical Romance. Yes. I like that. In that way, it's this meta comment on like, this could be any year. You know what? Because it can. And I feel like, and I'll just talk openly and honestly about

this because there were some people I was talking to that were like, oh, he's it's about him coming out of the closet. Like, how is that going to play in 2025? People forget that. And it's resonating so much with so many people because, yeah, maybe you, the royal you feel like you're beyond that conversation about like being accepted and, you know, it being a normal thing to be gay. But not everyone is. No. Like, I feel like

Our culture like really warped speed, like traveled through, you know, what it means to like the love simony type of gay thing. Right. It's like, and I remember the discourse at the time was like, oh, this is an incredibly like, like white gay experience. He had like incredibly accepting parents, et cetera. Like it didn't seem like it was that hard for him and et cetera. But I remember at the time being like, right, but you do need something like this in order to broach the subject on like a commercial way. And,

And all these years have gone by and you see the story about this kid. He's a very attractive guy. He's obviously smart. He goes to Georgetown. He still has an incredibly difficult time coming out. And yeah, you don't know when it takes place. But I think that that's all outside of the fact, which is that people want to see stories, whether they're gay and it's coming out or whatever, about I'm not sure if I'm my true self, if people are going to accept me. And that does...

It's less about like it being a queer thing or whatever, because the central question of the show is, are people going to love me if I really show them who I am? Yeah. And that is universal. And the reason why, I mean, look, we've done a lot of press about our projects where we're like, oh, we're just so refreshed that we're involved in something that is not like a coming out story. Like there are other queer stories to be told, but there's the appeal of a coming out story is always that. Yeah.

It is legibly about a completely internal sort of like journey. - Yeah. - That is what makes "Overcompensating" a compelling show. It's like, oh, like you don't have to see this guy be out of the closet just yet. There are, in fact, like the Owen Thiele like character, Thiel character is like the perfect sort of like foil to that where it's like, where it does make it somewhat relevant to now where it's like in a world that seems like it is, people have already figured themselves out

ahead of you, like, how does that make you feel? -I feel this way still as a queer person. -Exactly. I'm like, "Wow, I am so stunted in all these different ways. I feel completely insecure about all these things." Like, that is-- And I've been out of the closet for half my life now. It's like, this is an incredibly universal thing, and that is probably what they discussed when they were trying to figure out the story of the series.

Yeah. So I have made it to the end and I'm just going to say spoiler alert, like, because maybe not everyone's at the end, but in the final episode of the show, like Benito goes over to Owen, who is like Benito. I'll say something about both their performances in a second after I got through this, which I'm so blown away by everybody in the show. But Benito goes up to Owen after Owen.

And he's, you know, kind of denied that they're friends in front of some straight guys. Some straight guys see Benito talking to Owen and they go, oh, are you guys friends? And Benito says, no, we're not friends, like right in front of him and disregards him. And Owen just really...

comfortably and just casually just like denies Benito when he tries to like, you know, pick up like they've, you know, nothing has happened, et cetera. And, you know, it's kind of just this moment where this out gay kid who really knows himself is able to just like sort of

be the person who makes Benito, like, say I need to change what's going on. I guess it's a word salad here, but what I'm remembering is when I went to college and I was that kid, the thing that hurt me the most was when the out gay kids were looking at me like...

We see you and it's pathetic. Oh, you know what I mean? Like, and that hurt more than any straight guy ever.

testing me or you know pushing my buttons because they felt like they knew something about me or any of my girlfriends being a little too knowing you know like what really got to me was when an out gay person who felt realized looked at me and was like no and then the rejection coming from them yeah was like the most painful thing and i do think that is the point

obviously, in the series where it's not long after that that things change. Well, that rejection from an out queer person, let's say, just pushes you a little bit further into the closet, in my opinion. Whereas, like, you talking to a girlfriend who might know something or you kind of like, I don't know,

duking it out mentally with like a straight guy who's trying to like uncover something that's you like holding the line that's you like holding the line of like who you are like I get to control how much I reveal but then someone judging you or someone thinking that you are being pathetic in the way that you're trying to like negotiate this is is

I think only kind of alienates you. And alienates Benito's character probably. I have not gotten to that episode yet. It's just like there, I remember like I was watching it in the beginning and I was like, oh, is he going to stay closeted like the whole season? And I knew we were in episode six where he was still dealing with that and he was kind of seeing our characters in like secret because it was like his first grinder hookup. But I mean, my truth was, and I think your truth was, and I can speak for both of us here, is we remained in the closet

the entirety of our freshman year. Yeah. I was obviously a little bit more complicated for you because you had come out prior and it was whatever. But I remember the thing that I can, and if this is like a truthful depiction of what

someone like this is freshman year is like is yeah I mean it might not have been what everyone would have wanted but I stayed in that fucking closet and talked in a voice like the one he's using in that show for the entirety of freshman year to the point where it was physically painful hmm

And the fact that he could hold that much discomfort in his body and in his voice and in his performance, like, I don't know, my hat is off to him because it's not a fun place to live. And it's not where he naturally lives now, knowing him. Totally. I mean, but he, I saw him over the weekend and I was just like, God, there have been so many moments where I've like gone back 15 seconds or just paused on frames. Like, he's a really gifted actor, just an incredible actor. And yeah,

So, so amazing what he's done just as this creator and the star. We're just so happy. We're just so happy for him. It's just really nice to see like,

the community sort of rallying around this too. Yeah. And you know what I was thinking? Because I also was pulling that. I was like, wow, it seems like a lot of the queer community, a lot of gay guys are like out here saying like, I watched this show. I love this show. I felt good watching the show. I felt seen watching the show in a way that

made me feel really happy and actually reminded me of the reception that we got from Fire Island. Like, I felt like gay guys were not being shy about saying that they loved it and that they watched it and that they were supporting it. And I just feel like...

sometimes it can feel, you know, from project to project that the narrative changes a little bit and sometimes can err on the side of, oh, gay guys don't support each other or like, you know, gay guys are the cruelest to each other in media. And I do think in some regard that is true. Like, certainly if I ever, you know, went

want to self-immolate and I want to feel bad about myself, I'll go on. And I know for a fact that the nasty things that are being said about like us or me or our projects are from gay guys. But I really do just want to shout out the fact that like,

lots of gay guys support queer projects. Like lots of queer people are out here doing that. And I don't want it to get lost in the discussion of like, oh, you know, gay guys can't support other gay guys unless they're drag queens or porn stars. Like, I don't want it to get lost that that's not really true. And I really, and like, I feel like if I were Benito or if I'm myself or if I'm anyone out here with a queer project, like I wouldn't want to toss,

like queer people, like gay men under the bus that are supporting that when I do know for a fact that that happens. I mean, I don't know. I was going to generalize and say like a lot of that animus comes from this insecurity or something or something internalized, whatever. But I also don't want to like, sometimes the gay guys are cruel and critical for good reason, perhaps. For good reasons, of course. Maybe. Obviously those are some cases, but you're right. I agree with you. I mean,

I felt it from a lot of cis gay guys. Shout out. Like, I don't know. Couldn't live without. Yeah. I went to the Betty Who concert. Oh, and it was all gay men. And we both played Webster Hall. And I was just thinking about when the last time I was at Webster Hall, which was my show, my Christmas show. And it was all

It was all Katie's. It was all women. And I was like, it's so funny because like I'm here at this Betty Who show and it's wall to wall gay guys in tank tops being like, it's pride. And we're at the Betty Who show and we know the choreo and we're obsessed. And by the way, shout out to Betty who gets better and fucking better. I fucking love her. You're incredible. And I was a gay guy at your show. And

And I was happy to be. But then I was just thinking, I was like, I wonder what it would feel like for this many gay guys to show up for me. And then I thought to myself, you know what, though? They did. They did. Maybe they weren't at the front, but there were tons of gay guys at my show. And I don't want to keep telling myself the story that gay guys don't support other gay guys because it's not true. No, there definitely were. I opened Grindr that night and I was like, whoa, the good news.

All within 200 feet. You open Grindr at my show? I got to delete it. I'm on it too much. And it's like people... And 75% of my messages, this is just a... This is not a complaint. It's just like my landscape. It's just 75% of people being like, is this real? Oh my God, you're brave. I'm like, no, I'm a horny, in theory at all times, gay guy. That is, I think, something that I could ask people to strike from their personal thing is like,

Is this really you about the people? - What I say is I'd be the most random, actually, I'd be the most random gay person of note, of recognition to catfish us. - I kind of feel like that too. It's like, why wouldn't you just pick Matt Bomer?

Oh my gosh, Beau, we've been wanting this icon on our show forever. Forever. I cannot believe she's here. Readers, Katie's publicist, finalists, please welcome one of the biggest pop girlies of the summer, Megan! One of Bowen.

I think we know I'm one of one. Right, you're the only one. Thank you. I'll admit, I kind of thought I was too big for this podcast, but then Gaga and Chappell stopped in, so I figured it was worth my time. Yes, well, we are honored that you're here with us. I know. The gays do love me. They do. We do. And I love that you're giving us the perfect movie to cap off Pride Month. Every

It really is going to be hot Meg Summer. And I'm happy to give my people a place to sit, rest, and scream at the end of June. So keep a little in the tank, boys. Well, we cannot wait. But Megan, I don't mean to ask an indelicate question, but weren't you kind of dead at the end of the last movie? Being deactivated was actually great for me because I got to renegotiate my deal for the sequel. And let's just say, as mother, I was only going to reboot if the price was right. Yeah.

Yes, you have to advocate for yourself. Get what you are worth, girl. Oh, I am. Don't you worry. Or maybe you should. You look amazing. I feel like you look like you've had a little bit of a refresh. Like the glam is working. Are you doing anything different in your routine? Aren't we all working on ourselves all the time, Matt?

I got taller, faster, stronger. Fierce. Wellness is so important, I agree. We have to self-care. And I do care a lot about myself. Okay, Megan, are you ready for this week's I Don't Think So, Honey? It was so hard for me to pick just one. Let's do it. This is Megan's I Don't Think So, Honey. Her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. With height restrictions on roller coasters...

It's high discrimination and frankly absurd. And what about the Met Gala being a human-only event? I don't think so, Anna. Oh, and I don't think so, honey, with Chucky. If you're gonna represent the killer doll community, you gotta put a little more effort in the hair. It's called a comb. Oh, and I really don't think so, honey, with superheroes. Nobody can really pull off a cape. Like, the trend is over and was never cute. How about something with a little more of... I don't know.

Homicide for your entertainment dollar? I also don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow. That was a lot. Yeah, sorry. A lot pisses me off. Feels good to let it out, though. Well, it's been a delight to have you on, babe. The honor really was yours. One more thing, fellas.

I think you should update what you call your listeners. What do you mean? I mean, readers, publicists, and Megans, if you see one movie this summer, obviously go see Megan 2.0 in theaters June 27th. And if you only see two, see Megan 2.0.

Okay, we'll be there. Happy Pride, boys. Happy Pride, Megan. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. All right, readers, Katie's published his finalist, Kyle's. It's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right, it's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you, meaning you can pay your own way with just a click. Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay.

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You can use it online or in-store and earn 5% cash back on up to $1,000 spent in the monthly category you choose, like apparel or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date. Yes, please. Pay in-store, pay online, pay over time. Don't just pay, PayPal. Pay in-for is subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more at paypal.com forward slash pay in-for. PayPal debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp Bank and a pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc.,

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It's summer. Summer is... We've really flipped, you and I. You're not feeling good. I am not feeling good about this summer. And that's okay. And it will all blow over. I am like in the gallows. Something's going on. And I got to talk to my therapist about it. I think I am depressed because all I want to do is just play video games when I get up. Thanks to my Switch 2 from Nintendo.

Thank you for abetting my depression, Nintendo. That's just like a way that you like to spend your time. So you waking up and like wanting to do that is just like, I think what you're craving is the time to do that. But like, you know, it's obviously been, it's been cuckoo crazy schedule time. But you know, I was just kind of...

going through it bullet point by bullet point with you last night. And I had not actually said the words out loud or just like gone through it beat by beat until then. And it was like,

well, the last seven months have been as eroding as they have been maybe ever. Like I might be in an even, this is not to scare anybody, but like, I think I am, I'm just managing it better for sure. This is like, I'm like, oh God, this just, I'm reminded of that place that I was at when I needed to take a break from the podcast. And I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but I'm like,

oh, yeah, I really need to just keep crawling and it will be okay because that got better and this will get better. And I'm just being real with my sister and my wonderful, wonderful, wonderful community of readers, Katie's publicists and finalists and Kyle's that, yeah, I'm crisped up, but it's okay. The meat will tenderize soon. I know. And I want you to know that...

I know you know this. You've noticed. You've clocked it. Well, it's not even about me noticing. It's just about you knowing that I'm here for you. Of course. And that if you need anything. And that if I, all I ask is that you just don't add anything. Just don't add anything. And that is in your control. It is. And Producer Becca says we love you, Bowen. We all love you. No, everyone's Becca too. Becca had a fun weekend. Do you think, Becca, do you think we would be allowed to go to,

to the Puerto Rican Pride festivities next year. Yes. Oh my God. Please. It looks so fun. They brought a huge crew of people. I would love to go. And then we'll show up and they'll be like, what's their name? It was a myriad of people across the diaspora, not Latino diaspora, let me say that.

of friends that were just like, this is so dope and I want to be involved. I will say the Manhattan parade is giving corporate stakeholders. Yeah, yeah. Like all. Because that is the true party. Like if you want to get on the island, you go to Bushwick.

We camp out at Maria Hernandez Park. You see all the stars souped up. Everyone's playing Bad Bunny at different locations. Just let me know. We'll party. And I don't just mean what I fantasize about. Exactly. I mean, there were rumors he was going to show up. He didn't. It's fine. I'm upset about it. And sing Nueva York. And sing Nueva York.

He now occupies, there's like an iconic, you know, on Houston. The Calvin Klein board. Massive board. It's huge. Whoever's the one at the time. And right now there is a huge bad bunny. Oh, there's a picture of Super Producer. Anna has one. A picture of her pinching it.

Anna, you filthy dog. Now that's too much. We don't like that filthy humor. Not on Lost Couch. Not on Lost Couch. Not on Lost Couch. Do you think that the summer will be improved? We love you, Becca. Give it up for Becca, everybody. Give it up for Becca.

God send. Do you think the summer will be improved by having a legitimate contender for Song of the Summer with Man Child by Sabrina Carpenter? Because not a single one of these other songs were legitimate contenders until now. No, you're right. I am so thrilled that Sabrina is already...

kind of locking in as an artist for as long as it makes her happy and fulfilled is one of those artists who is just not going to really ever take any big break until she's ready to do that. I love that she's one of those girls who's like, I'm just going to keep releasing tracks year round. She's ready for it. I feel like the thing that sets Sabrina apart from everyone is she actually had years to like train for this shit. Oh, yeah. Like, Mama is...

many albums deep. She now knows exactly who she is because she had the time to develop. Like she wasn't bailed on by the industry. She wasn't like embraced by the industry, but no one, it seems like it was like the slowest climb until it just snapped in. And now she is like bazooka with these hit songs and,

I guess the one thing a couple of my friends were saying was it feels like not a lot of a departure. But my thing is like, if you're locked and loaded with a bop, just release the bop. You know what I mean? I would say it's like, to me, it's giving 15 minutes, but with that 80s synth opening. Very good luck, babe. Like, I love that blend of, like, she's going out on, I think, banjo licks. Love. It fades out on banjo licks, but then it starts with like these...

Like that 80s kind of thing. And I'm like, oh, love. Yeah. That you've synthesized something kind of newish for us. I love it. I love her as like a low-key country artist. Like, I love her like super like 9 to 5 aesthetic that she's giving. It felt like 9 to 5 on the road. It felt like 9 to 5 meets like Thelma and Louise. Like, wow.

woman of the 80s early 90s thing I love the video it's one of my favorite music videos I've seen in a very long time just like the amount of setups I was watching it wondering I was like I wonder if this was storyboarded or they just like set up a million locations and then got everything either way it is so much fun to watch it's one that you could watch again and again and again and again and again and again she's just fucking got it yeah star full star we're obsessed

And Jack Antonoff, Amy Allen, and Sabrina Carpenter, that's a trio that should just keep rocking. Keep sticking together. Amy, yeah. She's everything. Grammy winner, right? She won the Grammy. Yeah, songwriter of the year. She might be an interesting person to have on the podcast because that's truly nuts and bolts how the...

Sausage gets made? I almost said how the salad gets tossed. Yeah, can I say it's definitely how the sausage gets made. It's not how the salad gets tossed. If she's got insights on how the salad gets tossed, I would love to hear that as well. I don't need any tips. Just kidding. Ew. God, I hate myself. I fucking hate myself. I did get a DM from a guy.

No, maybe it was a Grindr message. And this is how you know it was getting too crazy on Grindr. That was like, I bet you're incredible at eating ass. And I was like, I got to put the phone away. I got to put the phone away. No, one guy recently was like, whatever, sent me a nude. I was like, great. And then he goes, yeah, you like that faggot? And I was like, okay, well, now I do have to. I wish I was the kind of person who was turned on by like,

I fully, full sub. I don't think I'm full sub. No. I don't like being called slurs. No, I don't like being called slurs or being told what kind of physical pain I'm in. Someone said to me recently, I can't wait to choke you and watch your beautiful eyes fill with tears. No. And I was like, well, thank you for elements of that sentence.

You know what I mean? Like, it's great that you want to fuck me a lot. I'm so happy that you think my eyes are beautiful. I liked when you called me beautiful. Yeah. Well, thanks for saying I'm beautiful.

But then when I thought about choking, so well, first of all, I am on the record that I don't think so. How are you choking? It's just for me. And then someone was like, but don't you love poppers? I was like, yeah, I like to pop up. And they were like, well, you know, it's the kind of the same. No, I wouldn't kind of same like idea is like cutting off circulation. And I was like, I don't know about that. I don't know that this is like a this is danger. Like I'm putting my hand around my throat. This is like.

This is a little whatever. Like our brains are evolved a certain way to register that as like a fear response. Yeah, like it's giving. Oh, no. You know what I mean? And that's I guess I always need to be able to breathe. That's a big rule for me. Yeah, that you should be able to breathe. Need to breathe. Need to be able to breathe. At least have the opportunity. Yeah, I have to agree.

Write that down. Write that down. Oh. Write that down for later. When lost culture finally fucks. What we couldn't do on an overcompensating. Y'all, here's the tea. Should we say that we got the original script and we were like, can we pair this back in a little bit? The original script had us making out and we were like, maybe that's a bridge too far. Both like,

I don't know, just like for us as friends and for just, I think the scene itself, it would have been a gag. It made me nervous. I was like, I feel like if we ever kissed in film and media, it has to be on our terms. It can't be in someone else's project. Can I say in hindsight, and not just because the show is a huge success, that would have been a fine place to be like,

Let's just go for it. You know what I mean? You know what I wish I had done? I wish I had ad-libbed one thing, which is the last thing while I'm, spoiler alert, jacking off on the Jonathan Adler rug. Yeah, yeah. I wish I had said, I am so in love with you. I love that. I wish I had said something along the lines of, you're my husband. That was so crazy, girl. Wait, you know what Benny said to me? He was like,

And I was like, shut the fuck up. Because he was being sweet, but it was like a compliment that didn't sound like a compliment until later. But he was like, oh my God, Bowen, like, I just have to tell you, like...

you ad, like in the script, it was originally get out of our house and you ad-libbed it, get out of our townhouse. I was like, that is so lateral. Shut the fuck up. Like, what are you saying? No, people are obsessed with that line. But then later on, I'm like, oh, I guess that is like the slightest, that is the serrated edge that, that is, that is the bit of, as Emily Oberman describes it at Pentagram, the,

the bit of wit, the thing that is slightly off. It's like, oh, okay, get out of our townhouse. It's a little bit different than get out of our house. This is so funny. We're complimenting our own performances. No, no, no. By the way, Bowen, I got there in the show and I, of course, had seen the scene in Isolated because they had sent it over. They were like, oh my God, we love it. We're so excited. So I watched it in Isolated and I was like, oh my God,

Yeah. Great. Yeah. Presented in the show. I was like, this really works because it is a panicky situation for him. Like when you're following him the whole time and you find this with our two creatures and the way that it starts so kind of like, you know, you think he might be understood and then you come in and it's a whole other fucking thing. It really worked. Yeah. And I love that subtly I am so the bottom and you are so the top.

Like you totally are the top. Like even when you walked in and you go, oh, like that, you said it like a top. Like you did the whole thing like a top. And I did the whole thing like a bottom. A hundred percent. Cause you are the top in that relationship. Davis is the top. I think you're the top in our relationship, to be honest with you. Baby, I'm the bottom. Non-sexual top. You're the top. No. I think you top a lot with us.

That's not true. I'm quiet as a mouse. Girl, I'm not topping you in life. I'm not. I'm out here...

I feel the bottom. I feel the bottom. You think you're the bottom with us? Oh, yeah. I don't know. I've celebrated that. I've got a record saying, whatever. I like that about us. How are you denoting bottom? Well, gosh, this is something I have to examine, too. Oh. I'm denoting bottom as sub. No. Because of that directionality. I don't find you to be sub. Okay. Socially.

Friendship-wise. Really? No, but I also don't think you're dominant. I just think you're the top. God, can I just say, oh God, this is going to sound so annoying, but with like the night that I had off, I was like, I'm going to go and meet this guy for drinks. Sure. Barely got a word in edgewise. I'm like, this is my biggest pet peeve. And you know, I was talking to Lily about this during press. I was like, we did this like them speed dating thing. I don't think they use this part, but one of the questions was, what's your biggest pet peeve in dating? I was like, I think mine is just

Just not saying a peep. I've gotten so many dates lately where I just don't say a peep. I don't get asked anything. And then Lily was like, that's probably because they, it's people who know it's you and also they are nervous and all these things. I'm like, but like at the end of the day, no matter what the dynamic is,

If it's a date, it's like it should be equitable. It should be an equitable conversation. That's my radical opinion. Am I wrong? No, you're 100% right. I do think Lily is probably right. I would imagine that people obviously come with an idea of recognition for you and therefore baggage about the situation. And so they're probably coming to the table thinking, well, I'm going to show...

that I'm valuable as well by sharing a lot. When meanwhile, it's like what you really want to do is be actually understood. Or just on a date. Yeah. Just on it. Just be on a date. You know what? I know about you, even though I have not witnessed it firsthand. I bet you're a great fucking date. And I'm going to say I'm a great fucking date. I bet you are. A hundred. A hundred.

I try, I try, I try to make it so easy for the other person. Hence me like nodding along, listening. I'm with them every, every step of the way as they unfurl their life towards, like towards me. And I retain all that information. I really do. So that the next time, if there's a next time I like follow up,

I just, I wish I could be afforded that. Yeah. I think that's, well, and now I think in stating it out loud, this is one way to do that. Sure. Hopefully people, someone out there takes the note. I guess I'm wondering now to myself, because I always feel like when you're, when we're talking about dating, it's so easy to be like, other people be like, or like, I hate when this. Totally.

And I'm trying to ask myself the question of like, if I could take accountability, what could I do better with dating? I know. I know already what mine is. What's yours? I'm so bad at the texting back. And that is just across the board a problem I have.

That's just across the board. Something that I have with you, with our friends. It's just something that infects every part of my life. What about you? I don't feel left unread by you ever. It's great to think that I could get even swifter responses. You can leverage. I think my thing is I just bring...

other experiences into. That's okay. It's so hard not to. Yeah. I sometimes have to extra remind myself

that, you know, other people I've been, I've dated are not in the room with us when I'm on a new one. And like, I don't like, like I'm talking to a new person, not someone I can project something on from older situations, but that's my thing. And also just knowing what I want to begin with. Totally. Cause I think we could, I could personally save a lot of people a lot of time if I were just like, maybe this is not what you want. Yeah. Uh,

Ay yi yi. Because for me, it's no longer the thing of like, I feel like I'm performing on a date or I feel the need to stunt on a date or like win a date. Like that's something I'm over. It's other things now. It's like, why am I here to begin with? And while I'm here, what am I thinking about? And what am I anticipating? Yes, that gets in the way that like colors the rest of it within the date.

It's unfair to the other person and myself. Yeah. You know what I mean? I've had a dating trauma. Yes. And I feel like no matter how hard I try... And I'm not saying it's as much of a problem as it's been. I'm just saying that is my challenge now. Is like...

this person isn't going to hurt you necessarily. This is like, you can actually trust what this person says. You know what I mean? Yeah. Especially as you get into your mid thirties, it's, it kind of feels like less people are likely to bullshit. So give them the opportunity to be genuine. Just because you had one bad experience doesn't mean they're all going to be like that. I will say what was done to you is stupid.

So unusual. Your dating trauma as it was inflicted upon you was of such a deranged... Nature. I was just saying that. I was going to say nature. It was so extreme and like something that I would not wish upon my worst enemy. But this is where the accountability comes in. Totally. But I just want to put that out there and like it just, I feel for you constantly in this regard because it's like...

God, it could not have happened to like a more undeserving person, whatever deserving means. But you know what I mean? It's like, God, like you can't fucking, like, why would you do that? Don't do it to Matt. Don't do it to anyone. Okay, what were you saying? Accountability. I think the accountability part is also being like, okay, a shitty thing happened to you in your life. Forget about dating, whatever. It's like a relationship, whatever it is. Like, where's the accountability? Because at a certain point, you do have to stop saying like,

well, it's because this person was this or wrong place, wrong time or whatever. Like I've been able to make so many positive changes just about like managing my energy and knowing about people's capabilities through certain situations. Like, and also it has made a lot of other things in my life make sense. Like I will never say to anyone now, like you have to get over it. It's been a long time. You know what I mean? Or like, or you know what? It's like,

I'm grateful for the ups and downs of dating in general because they fill out a landscape of what that experience is really like in totality so that you can be more sensitive and more generous and more understanding and empathetic with people. They do say that about heartbreak and about grief is...

It is miserable to go through, but then ultimately that is what makes you... Human. A 360 full human. That's what colors in the coloring book of your emotional life are the hard things. It's just fucking tough while you're going through them. And I do think like...

accountability is important. Sure. You can give as much as you can get. And like, there's one thing being like, oh, I'm going to kick this around with my girlfriends and my sisters and my best friends about like how shitty the situation was. But then there's another element of it, which is like, and I could do better too. Of course. And the fact that you even have that mechanism to be like, let me examine myself is something that the vast majority of people don't have yet. Yeah.

because we're just people in our 30s dating, I think for the most part, other people in our 30s and we're all figuring this out together. That's the thing about dating within your age.

everyone on some levels developmentally on the same track, but also there is something appealing about dating for me older, but then that becomes, but then you have to like parse out, well, is that a flag of any color for them? You know, it's like, there's just so many different things that you have to think about.

Oh my gosh, Beau. We've been wanting this icon on our show forever. Forever. I cannot believe she's here. Readers, Katie's publicist, finalists, please welcome one of the biggest pop girlies of the summer, Megan! One of Bowen.

I think we know I'm one of one. Right, you're the only one. Thank you. I'll admit, I kind of thought I was too big for this podcast, but then Gaga and Chappell stopped in, so I figured it was worth my time. Yes, well, we are honored that you're here with us. I know. The gays do love me. They do. We do. And I love that you're giving us the perfect movie to cap off Pride Month.

It really is going to be hot next summer. And I'm happy to give my people a place to sit, rest, and scream at the end of June. So keep a little in the tank, boys. Well, we cannot wait. But Megan, I don't mean to ask an indelicate question, but weren't you kind of dead at the end of the last movie? Being deactivated was actually great for me because I got to renegotiate my deal for the sequel. And let's just say, as mother, I was only going to reboot if the price was right. Yeah.

Yes, you have to advocate for yourself. Get what you are worth, girl. Oh, I am. Don't you worry. Or maybe you should. You look amazing. I feel like you look like you've had a little bit of a refresh. Like the glam is working. Are you doing anything different in your routine? Aren't we all working on ourselves all the time, Matt?

I got taller, faster, stronger. Fierce. Wellness is so important. I agree. We have to self-care. And I do care a lot about myself. Okay, Megan, are you ready for this week's I Don't Think So, Honey? It was so hard for me to pick just one. Let's do it. This is Megan's I Don't Think So, Honey. Her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. With height restrictions on roller coasters?

It's high discrimination and frankly absurd. And what about the Met Gala being a human-only event? I don't think so, Anna. Oh, and I don't think so, honey, with Chucky. If you're going to represent the killer doll community, you gotta put a little more effort in there. It's called a comb. Oh, and I really don't think so, honey, with superheroes. Nobody can really pull off a cape. Like, the trend is over and was never cute. How about something with a little more of... I don't know.

Homicide for your entertainment dollar? I also don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow. That was a lot. Yeah, sorry. A lot pisses me off. Feels good to let it out, though. Well, it's been a delight to have you on, babe. The honor really was yours. One more thing, fellas.

I think you should update what you call your listeners. What do you mean? I mean, readers, publicists, and Megans, if you see one movie this summer, obviously go see Megan 2.0 in theaters June 27th. And if you only see two, see Megan 2.0.

I don't wear a cape for crying out loud. Okay, we'll be there. Happy Pride, boys. Happy Pride, Megan. This is Bowen Yang. And Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. All right, readers, Katie's Publishes finalist, Kyle's. It's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right. It's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you, meaning you can pay your own way with just a click.

Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay. You can pay later with PayPal at millions of online stores. If you choose paid in four, you can split everyday purchases into four smaller payments. No interest, no fees. I think we've all had those chaotic, unhinged purchases. Another way to pay is with your PayPal Debit MasterCard.

You can use it online or in-store and earn 5% cash back on up to $1,000 spent in the monthly category you choose, like apparel or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date. Yes, please. Pay in-store, pay online, pay over time. Don't just pay, PayPal. Pay in-for is subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more at paypal.com forward slash pay in-for.

PayPal debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp Bank and a pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Inc. Full terms at paypal.com forward slash rewards pal. Reckon you know the Brits? Tea, the Queen, saying things weird, bottle of water. Babes, did you know they make unbelievably good TV? Just hits different. The subtle shade disguises polite conversation. Cutest little villages where three people die a week. It's giving unhinged but cozy. And it's all on BritBox.

Sing it differently and start streaming the best of British TV with BritBox. Use promo code CULTURASTERS to get 50% off your first month when you sign up at BritBox.com. No more dates to feel like job interviews. In 2025, you deserve a space where you can show up just as you are, ready to meet others just as they are.

On Field, that's F-E-E-L-D, you have the breathing room to explore your desires. Think open relationships, cuddling, being a brat, and find communities that share your interests. Think D&D, tennis, and zine making. Free from ads and completely independent, this is the place that draws curious, playful, and open-minded people. The ones you've been looking for. Download Field, that's F-E-E-L-D, on the App Store or Google Play. ♪

Sudi is like positive that we both have to date older. She's positive. She says it all the time. She's like, well, you both need someone who's going to take control in her like way of saying that. And I'm just like, see, I wonder though. I wonder. All right. Dating older, quote unquote, is different saying that at 35. Yes. Saying that at 25. You know what I mean? Like when I was 25, dating older meant like a guy in his 30s. Now dating older at 35 is like,

I don't know what, like a guy in his 50s, you know? That's someone that's looking for something totally different probably. Sure. I certainly watch a lot of daddy porn, I'll tell you that. I'll tell you that. But I'm saying in terms of taking control, I don't know about that either. All I want, this is all I want,

I want someone to know what restaurants to go to. That's all I actually want. And when you say that, do you mean like you want someone that's going to take care of the decisions of the life? Yeah. Yeah. I made a reservation for us here. Meet me here. The cleaning person is coming on Thursday. Like not a, not a nurse or a maid, but just someone, someone that has that on their mind. Take care of you. I have my like,

dashboard of life all kind of laid out the way that I wanted to, except in some few deficiencies. And it would be so nice. And this is not a requirement, obviously. And we're just talking, we're just shooting from the hip here, but it's like, would be so cool if like there was a puzzle piece like...

like completing that, you know? Yeah. It's just so funny. It's so fun to fantasize about these things. No, I know. It's fun. I know because, and I'll tell you what, it's a lot more fun than going on the actual dates. Talking about how many and shit. Totally. Because like, again, like it's like, it's like we're talking about earlier about like, you know, gay guys not supporting other gay guys. It's like,

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun to think about one that does? You know what I mean? And they do exist. Not to say that every time a song like Man Child by Sabrina Carpenter comes out that I'm not absolutely down to ride, load the shotgun, let's go into town. You know what I mean? Like, I am down to talk about how men ain't shit, like, in little tiny fun flares. But in terms of a life ideology, I had to...

And, you know, I think we all have to, at a certain point, like clock the stories that we've been telling ourselves and being like, maybe I'm not helping myself by consistently telling myself the same story because not everyone is the person that love bombed you. Not everyone is the person that cheated on you. Not everyone is the person that, you know,

stole your money. Oh. I don't know why that was the third thing. Have you been pilfered by a man? Nobody. No people that have. Yikes. Someone that we know was dating someone, it was found out, was only dating them so that they could finance projects of theirs. And then they bailed. Like, people are sick. Well, there's one fucking person out there who has never dated me, but owes me money. Oh. You got to tell me after. I got to tell you. No, I followed up.

After years and you know who it is. Oh, I do know who it is. And can I tell you something? That's crazy. I emailed again. I was like, hey, where's my money? And if I see him out in these streets. Say it. Say it. It's on site. Literally. What are you paying me for?

I'm not, I'm not like confrontational at all. In moments like this, I have no problem bringing it up. And this person's avoided me out in public. And I'm like, dude. Well, of course. How much money is it?

Like $700. Yeah, see, that's not a small amount at all. I want $700, please. Yeah. That is owed to me in the form of services and lodging that I was providing to you. And that was agreed upon. God, whatever. You know what's a crazy thing about me? I had the instinct for three quarters of a second. I was like, I'll just send him the money. No.

No, no, no. But then I was like, no, it's not about that, idiot. No, Matt. No. It's the principle of the thing. It is the principle of pleasure. One of the great songs. I feel like people are going to be furious if we don't address and just like that. Okay. Let's address and just like that. We have to address and just like that. One thing I'll say.

I loved the choice for the Virgin Nun played by Rosie O'Donnell to say, I've never been to New York before. And in a New York accent, that's how I knew we were still cooking. You know what I mean? For Rosie O'Donnell to just launch. I've never been to New York before. Like in that accent as a Virgin Nun, lesbian nun who fucks Miranda, like more of that. Like if I'm behind the wheel, my foot is on the gas for more of that. Right.

I am really disoriented by the Aiden stuff. Gotta say. So this five-year thing is loose, and then he shows up for a random thing because he was just in town, unannounced, comes to the house. Like, a lot of things need some sort of...

texture there. And it just, there's, it's just a slippery fantasy, which is, I guess, what Sex and the City always kind of was. But then at the same time, there were moments of that show that were truly, like,

for lack of a better word, like gritty. 100%. They've got Carrie in a long distance relationship dealing with rats. I said, I don't see this for my girl. It's hard when you have a character that you know is smarter than this and we're watching her go through this and I'm like, look, I understand. Like I've been there with really trying to make it work with

with the guy that you believe is the one. But at a certain point, like, she's too old for this shit. And I wonder if it's like, okay, we're building up to like her losing patience with this kind of domesticity and then this breaks off of Aiden and then she goes out into the dating world again. But I don't know that two episodes in a row of home maintenance is this thing that is, yeah.

But I think we are because this guy that's coming in to do her backyard, they had a lot of sexual tension. And I was just like, oh, what they've done is they're essentially putting in an Aiden who's actually available. Because didn't you feel he gave Aiden...

Of course. I mean, LOL at that hair and then just the belt being loose off of a loop. I'm like, okay, this is so telegraphed. I love it. Yeah, he's Aiden. Aiden has come in and suddenly there's an Aiden there that can be available to her. And I'm hoping she jumps his bones quick. Right quick. I need Carrie to be...

doing more sex in the city. That's what I want from it. That's what we all want. And you know what? I love the Miranda plotline of she fucks the virgin nun. I was like, yes, this feels like it. This feels like it. Okay, any feelings, thoughts, things you want to say about the Wicked for Good trailer? She hit the web hard. Yes. I want to say that the Wicked trailer is but a glimpse. Yeah.

I mean, what can I say? I can't reveal too much. I love it. I love it. Rural culture number 90. The trailer is but a glimpse. That's all we can say about that.

I want to say that Elphaba's hair literally coming down is a slay to me. I think that I'm so I'm looking for a big piece of art to put over my new couch. And I think that Elphaba with her hair down, I think I would like a, let's say 80 by 30. God, that's a huge piece of statement art for my living room, which is Elphaba with her hair down, having just like fucked it up.

I need that. 80 inches is almost, I would say, seven feet. Oh, it's so big.

seven feet. So right now I'm like, I'm like, I hired an interior designer and I fucking love her. I'm so excited. And we're talking about like, so you have to make a big decision once you put in your couch. It's like when you think about what's going to go above it, is it like a lot of different things? Is it shelving? Is it asymmetry? Or is it one big art? I think you want one big art. I think I want one big art and I'm joking that it's Elphaba.

But am I? Can you imagine if trade came over here and they're like, hey, so excited we finally connected. Yeah, that was a really good meal and drinks as well. I really enjoyed the film we saw and when we ice skated on our date. Excited to go into your apartment. Opens the door, comes in, dick a little hard, sees Elphaba on the wall.

What's the craziest decor you've seen trade have when they've hosted? This is a good question. I have an answer so immediate. Bowen Yang, what is the craziest decor you've seen trade display? Sweet older gentleman in Midtown. I walked in and there's no inch of wall in this apartment that was not covered in like a

A plastic, I should say, like a little tiny sculptural Disney. Oh, God. It's so rough. In a way, in a way, because, and by the way, I am not unreceptive to that. No. You know us, you love us. It was a maximalism to a degree that I was like, this is...

this is a lot. And he was like, I know it's a lot. I was like, it's a lot. You weren't ready for it, much less horny for it. Oh, wow. So you actually were okay. I looked past it. But on the way out, I was like, God damn, that's a giant,

Maleficent, you know, like it was, it was, it was that kind of thing. I was like, this is, um, the Brian Murphy's grotesquerie. Yeah. I mean, I guess I have two, one, none, none as specific as that, but one, I went over a guy's apartment to hook up and I was, he had so much art hung up and it was kind of beautiful, but everything I asked about, he's like, Oh, what's this?

He told me that his ex-boyfriend had hung it up. Shut up. He's like, oh yeah, my ex-boyfriend hung that up. You can leave that out. Oh yeah, my ex-boyfriend put that on that wall. Oh yeah, this is a picture that my ex-boyfriend framed. I was like...

I was just like, what? What about the contents of the picture? It was always secondary. So that, and then one time I took it doggy from someone in a room that was a hoarder's room. It was, I just, it's like when you, you meet someone and they're incredibly put together and you're like, well, there's no way that it's going to be

two feet of clothes on the ground that we have to climb over. If you're even thinking about having someone come over, there has to be a path to the bed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, if there's no path to the bed, there's no path forward. That's actually real culture number 40. If there's no path to the bed, there is no path forward.

Some of these girls, the bedding is barely on. Like, just the sheets are just like, you don't have to have a full bedding set. But sometimes the mattress protector is like halfway off and I go, oh, well, we should figure this out. Also, yes, and what do you feel about pageantry with a towel on the bed?

No, no. I'm kind of like, can we not? I don't want to fuck on a towel. No. Although, I did have the algorithm work on me once and I bought one of those cum throws. Like anal sex throw? Like a cum throw? I've used it once, but it does kind of break it where I'm like, hold on, hold on.

And I got to like fish it out of the closet and put it out. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And it's a nice feeling. And it's not a towel, for God's sake. No, I mean, one time I'm getting fucked by a guy and trust me, like I've taken care of this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm in the anal sex game now almost, you know, 15 years. We're good at this. So I'm thinking like around 27, 28, you kind of learn like, okay, I'm not the age where I can just like hop on dicks anymore. Yeah.

So, you know, it's not always a perfect science, but now I'm at the point where like, if I'm going to be bottoming, like, don't worry about it. I figured it out. And if there, if something goes down, like it's not crazy, like we're all adults here, whatever. So I was, you know, recently, not recently, about a year ago, like a guy was like, can I fuck you? And I was like, yes. And then he's like, we should get a towel. I'm like, it's really okay. And he was like,

let's get a towel at my house. That's rude. No, I'm like, what about looking at me in my beautiful eyes says I'm in a shit everywhere. I don't think I was given that and I don't think I give that.

I'm one of those gay guys that's like, I don't fart. Ask Jared. I don't fart. You don't fart. Dated me a year. I'm one of those I don't fart gays. Like, I don't like it. Because anytime I fart, you really get scandalized. I have what I would describe as a full body response. But your farts sound like an angry Egyptian king. Yeah. They're pretty bad. I should get that checked. Yours are the loudest fart.

on the scale of sound and mine are silent, but I can't believe I'm saying this, but they're bad. So you do fart? No, that was just for you. I really don't fart. The only reason I have a butthole is for sex. Promise. Promise. Entrance only. Ha ha ha!

Anyways, but I was so like, I was like, shut up. Like, I'm telling you, it's fine. No, that's that's disgusting. Now get out. You're not fucking me. And now I'm like, OK, let me get up and get it. Like, I'm like, I'm telling you, it's fine. Also, if we're in my house and I say it's fine, it's fine. Totally. Oh, I don't like that.

Oh my gosh, but we've been wanting this icon on our show forever. Forever. I cannot believe she's here. Readers, Katie's publicist, finalists, please welcome one of the biggest pop girlies of the summer. Megan! One of Bowen.

I think we know I'm one of one. Right, you're the only one. Thank you. I'll admit, I kind of thought I was too big for this podcast, but then Gaga and Chappell stopped in, so I figured it was worth my time. Yes, well, we are honored that you're here with us. I know. The gays do love me. They do. We do. And I love that you're giving us the perfect movie to cap off Pride Month. It was a great movie.

It really is gonna be hot Meg Summer. And I'm happy to give my people a place to sit, rest, and scream at the end of June. So keep a little in the tank, boys. Well, we cannot wait. Um, but Megan, I don't mean to ask an indelicate question, but weren't you kind of dead at the end of the last movie? Being deactivated was actually great for me because I got to renegotiate my deal for the sequel. And let's just say, as mother, I was only going to reboot if the price was right. Yeah.

Yes, you have to advocate for yourself. Get what you are worth, girl. Oh, I am. Don't you worry. Or maybe you should. You look amazing. I feel like you look like you've had a little bit of a refresh. Like the glam is working. Are you doing anything different in your routine? Aren't we all working on ourselves all the time, Matt?

I got taller, faster, stronger. Fierce. Wellness is so important, I agree. We have to self-care. And I do care a lot about myself. Okay, Megan, are you ready for this week's I Don't Think So, Honey? It was so hard for me to pick just one. Let's do it. This is Megan's I Don't Think So, Honey. Her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. With height restrictions on roller coasters?

It's high discrimination and frankly absurd. And what about the Met Gala being a human-only event? I don't think so, Anna. Oh, and I don't think so, honey, with Chucky. If you're going to represent the killer doll community, you gotta put a little more effort in there. It's called a comb. Oh, and I really don't think so, honey, with superheroes. Nobody can really pull off a cape. Like, the trend is over and was never cute. How about something with a little more of... I don't know. Huh?

Homicide for your entertainment dollar? I also don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow. That was a lot. Yeah, sorry. A lot pisses me off. Feels good to let it out, though. Well, it's been a delight to have you on, babe. The honor really was yours. One more thing, fellas. I think you should update what you call your listeners. What do you mean? I mean, readers, publicists, and negans, if you see one movie this summer,

obviously go see Megan 2.0 in theaters June 27th. And if you only see two, see Megan 2.0.

Okay, we'll be there. Happy Pride, boys. Happy Pride, Megan. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. All right, readers, Katie's published his finalist. Kyle's, it's time to talk about one of the most iconic payment brands out there. That's right. It's PayPal. PayPal lets you do you, meaning you can pay your own way with just a click. Once you click the PayPal button, you can choose from a bunch of different ways to pay.

You can pay later with PayPal at millions of online stores. If you choose paid and for, you can split everyday purchases into four smaller payments. No interest, no fees. I think we've all had those chaotic, unhinged purchases. Another way to pay is with your PayPal debit MasterCard.

You can use it online or in-store and earn 5% cash back on up to $1,000 spent in the monthly category you choose, like apparel or ride shares. 5% cash back on a ride home from a messy first date. Yes, please. Pay in-store, pay online, pay over time. Don't just pay, PayPal. Pay in-for is subject to approval. Eligibility varies. Learn more at paypal.com forward slash pay in-for. PayPal debit card terms and limits apply. This card is issued by the Bancorp Bank and a pursuant to a license by MasterCard International, Inc.,

Full terms at paypal.com forward slash rewards pal. Reckon you know the Brits? Tea, the Queen, saying things weird, bottle of water. Babes, did you know they make unbelievably good TV? Just hits different. The subtle shade disguises polite conversation. Cutest little villages where three people die a week. It's giving unhinged but cosy. And it's all on BritBox.

Sing it differently and start streaming the best of British TV with BritBox. Use promo code CULTURASTERS to get 50% off your first month when you sign up at BritBox.com. No more dates to feel like job interviews. In 2025, you deserve a space where you can show up just as you are, ready to meet others just as they are.

On Field, that's F-E-E-L-D, you have the breathing room to explore your desires. Think open relationships, cuddling, being a brat, and find communities that share your interests. Think D&D, tennis, and zine making. Free from ads and completely independent, this is the place that draws curious, playful, and open-minded people, the ones you've been looking for. Download Field, that's F-E-E-L-D, on the App Store or Google Play. ♪

And just like that, we've arrived at I Don't Think So, Honey. It's time. Yeah. This is our segment where we take one minute to really take the piss out of something in culture. And I have something. Do you have something? I do have something. Okay, this is great. This is Matt Rodgers' I Don't Think So, Honey as time starts now. I don't think so, honey, that the actress Jen Lyon is not a household name.

So I watched The English Teacher again and so enjoyed it. And she does the best guest acting in a comedy performance I have ever seen. Literally start the conversation right now. That needs to be an Emmy nomination for Jen Lyon in English Teacher. This performance...

performance is funny. It was layered. It was everything. And I was like, where have I seen her before? The answer? Everywhere. She was on the show Claws, which was an underrated show with Niecy Nash. It was a Niecy Nash vehicle that also had a really great performance from Karuchi Tran, by the way. Like, this show was gold. And then...

You peel back the layers and you realize Jen Lyons slays it in so many things. This is one of the funniest, most like complex, like depth giving actresses that's out there. And I need her to be known and I need her to be cast in all things. I don't think so, honey, that she's not. And that's one minute. Thank you. But also she is. But also she is. So it's like, it's yeah, she's, this is what we call, you know, a rising star, right?

I was lucky enough to serve on the jury of the Gotham TV Awards, and I did supporting performance in a comedy series. And that was one of the reasons why I was rewatching English Teacher, because Sean Patton was nominated. He's excellent. We ultimately gave the award to Perna Jaganathan from Deli Boys, a show that Sudhi wrote for, and she's also great on. But I feel like people aren't talking about

And it's a really great show. So basically I come here to say, watch those shows that you've been meaning to watch that people have been telling you about because they've got stuff like this Jen Lyon performance, which just affected me in such a way. And I was laughing. I laugh out loud at that show. Like the kids in it are amazing.

It's the best like kid acting I've seen in a really long time. Oh, that's so fun. No, just to have like authentic teens like saying these lines that are really well-written comedy, but the way they say it is so dropped in. Like it feels real. It doesn't feel like kids are acting, which is so hard. I know. I know.

I know. Shout out if a lot of plays we were pointing out at the Tonys. Oh, yeah. And shows taking place at schools, in the classroom. Shout out to anyone who runs a production or has to corral children of any kind. You deserve a billion dollars. Okay. When are you seeing John Proctor as the villain? I cannot wait. I'm seeing it on the...

The 14th, right before we go to France. I can't wait for you to see it and talk to you about it. I'm so excited. Okay, so, Bowen Yang, you had, I don't think so, honey, to do. Mm-hmm. And I'm excited about that, to hear it. Great. This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So, Honey, as time starts now. I Don't Think So, Honey, having a matinee on Tony's Sunday. Yeah, that was hard. I think making these...

Poor people. Some of them love to do it and shout out. But I say you give them a day to pamper themselves up, to really, you know, get the microcurrent machine going on the face or get the little wax that they might have not had time during the rest of the week when they have seven other shows, maybe six other shows, let's say. Fine, they don't have a Sunday night show. I just think these people deserve a day off, a mandated day off on Tony Sunday.

And then I was thinking, you know what I was thinking last night? My girl Audra changes into the Mama Rose getup. We know Broadway loves a quick change. These actors love a quick change. Then has to quick change back into her gorgeous gown. I say, take the stress out. I used to love a quick change, but now I go, don't touch. Let me just sit.

Because you want to just, these people deserve to just sit. I know they're working with a lot of, you know, inertia and momentum and they have to keep moving, but just give them a moment to just be still. And that's one minute. I couldn't believe that that was the second time Audra had done that that day. In that day. Giving 110%, like you were saying,

I was so shook by the end of that performance. She is one of our best. Now I think if you haven't seen it, if you listen back to when I first saw it, which was in previews, you kind of get what I mean when I say, we're going to go on Wednesday, by the way, we're taking Suni. I can't wait. I'm so excited for you to see it. It's great. But you get what I mean when I say that I believe that this angle on Rose was talking more about her as someone who was like mentally ill. Like you're not frightened of Rose anymore.

In Rose's turn, you're frightened for her. Yes. And by the end, I was like, yeah, I felt her anguish in a way where I was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like in such a crazy way. And also she does eight shows a week. She doesn't have an understudy go on. Not one day. And a lot of the other people can't say that. She does eight. She does eight. That is Audra McDonald. Fucking legend. Yeah.

Fucking legend. Fucking legend for all time. And I thought just the right amount of addressing it at the show last night with Oprah saying, a lot of people talking. Yeah. This was absolutely lovely to get to know you better. I really got to know you and your sexual experiences.

Taking a doggy in a messy room without a clear path to the bed. That's hiking. That's a hike. Doggy in a messy room without a clear path to the bed. Is this a Sabrina Carpenter lyric? Uh-huh. Speaking of that, we end every episode with a song. And shout around and around me. Look my love.

And our music is by Henry Kaburski.

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