"Locked In" (w/ Tate McRae)
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Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow, is that culture? Yes. Las Culturistas. Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. It's a big day. We've sang our guest song in front of her already. Well, because I first heard about the truly seminal, superb, I was going to say superior single, Two Hands, through you because you were saying in the group chat that

ooh, two hands just came onto the coffee shop and I couldn't help it. It was a shoulder shaker in the coffee shop. What did you say? Like you caught yourself like just... Gyrating. You were gyrating. Giving Tate. You were giving Tate in the coffee shop. I mean, listen, it's one of those. It's one of those. It doesn't really matter who's around. Right. You know what I'm saying? Just to... We haven't acknowledged this. This is...

And we're not like big dogging in front of our guests or anything, but this is our first time we've seen our Webby Award. 2024 Webby Award winner, best podcast, individual episodes, comedy. Yeah, this is really good. So we were thinking that maybe our guest could present us with the award. Yeah. That's a good one.

Tate McCray, would you give us our Webby Award? Yeah, of course. What's a Webby Award? Okay, so a Webby Award is if you do anything on the internet like post or comment, you know, you might get nominated. You could get nominated for a Webby. Anyone with any

online activity is sort of up for this. Wow. This is best individual episodic comedy episode. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And so we're just kind of in our chairs. Yeah. So I guess just pretend you're opening an envelope. Well. We're nervous. The 2024 Webby Award winner goes to Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Oh!

To get this from Tate McRae. Thank you, Tate. Congratulations, guys. Oh my God. Do you have a speech prepared? No. I just want to thank Tate McRae for gifting us with this. We couldn't have got it from someone that's more important to culture at this moment. And this is going to dovetail into our intro.

So close to what? We are in the so close to what era? We're in the so close to what? We're in the Miss Possessive era. Miss Possessive tour era, as it were. And we've been in that era. We've been in the era. Okay. I think by the time this episode comes out, we've gotten to listen to the album early. Album comes out February 21st. Hitting.

Hitting. Tour starts March 18th. Is that a Pisces season tour? It's a Pisces season tour. No, I think it's just... No, we're after Pisces. Yeah, I think it's after. We'll talk about it. Yeah, it's right after. We gotta talk about your signs. Please. We gotta talk about your signs. We gotta talk about your signs. There's some stuff to get to. We bring out the tarot cards. We don't know shit. She is...

Someone who we've spoken about on this podcast is an equally balanced three header. Just three hyphenate. I guess it's two hyphens, but it's three titles. Singer, songwriter, dancer, all three. She's truly incredible. The album hadn't come out. Thank Leonard hadn't come out when you were on SNL, right? No, I was still making it. You were still making it. Yeah. I'd heard Greedy. Yeah.

Obviously. Had heard You Broke Me first. I was like, I like this take. Oh, the first time I heard Tate was on You was on Troy's track. Great song. I love that song. Great song. And then she comes on SNL and then it's whatever. We'll bring her in first and then I just want to tell you about this moment because it was truly an earth-shaking moment for everybody at SNL. Okay. But we love her so much. Listen to the album out February 21st. Please welcome into your ears Tate McCray!

Thank you for putting up with our bullshit and giving us our award. Thank you for having me. I didn't know when to come in. I was like, should I sit back? We actually do. We do that intro for everyone. And it's actually since we've started doing video, people get really upset because they see the person sitting there. It's sort of like, it's not just like usually. Yeah, I felt like it was like a closed conversation. It was a closed conversation. Everyone, the tots are going to be out there being like, why the fuck are they wasting her time? But never, no, we'll never do that again. They'll be fine. They're sweet. They're sweet. Yeah.

To like sort of create a really nice fan community has to feel good. It does. Yeah. Yeah, they're great. It feels like the exception to the rule. It feels like every fandom is like a little bit mean. They're terrifying. All stans I think are a little terrifying. Yeah. How do we get here? Were you ever a terrifying stan for someone? Um,

When did you get closest? Honestly, I think the closest fan girl I've been is to Ariana Grande. Yeah. I've just been obsessed with her for a very long time. Yeah. She's the closest I think I've gotten. And then maybe Rihanna. Yeah. I feel like those two are the girls that I'll die for. So, Ariana and Navy. Because this is the thing. I'm sure the Britney comparisons are flattering. But at the same time, you were like...

when she was like out there, like already very popular. I was thinking about that. Like a lot of the millennial gays are like, it's Britney 2.0, like get on board. And I'm like, I wonder how you feel about that. Cause she wasn't, it wasn't like us where it was like, we remember when Britney came out. Yeah. I think comparisons are just hard because yeah.

Like, obviously, every person that comes onto the scene, they instantly get a comparison. People just like familiarity. Yeah. But I think it's just hard because, like, you can't create, like, recreate great art like that. Like, it's a new thing. I bring this up not to, like, reiterate this, but I'm just saying, like, you stay on art because that is your generation of, like, coming up watching Nickelodeon being like, oh, my God, I love her. You know what I mean? And it wasn't necessarily Britney at the time because you were like,

still like a baby. Like zero. A true baby. Literally. Zero years old. Baby vibes. Do you miss being a baby? A little bit. I want to be a baby all the time. That naive is like being that naive is a nice feeling. I kind of want to be an iPad baby more than anything else. Why is that?

Just a baby that's on the iPad. Right. And they're in heaven, but their brains are cut. They are frying. They're frying. Like a baby that just can absolutely slay a device. I think that's most babies nowadays. It's crazy.

Tate, do you think the slutty glasses are the accessory of the year? The little, these ones? You know the ones. As someone who's not one of the slutty glasses. Are you calling these the slutty glasses? These are not the slutty glasses, but I'm saying everyone's wearing the slutty glasses now. And I feel like you really pushed that forward in a huge way. Really? And you should be so proud. Yes. Thank you. I love the slutty glass. I think it's really nice. Right. Why are you wearing them now?

I didn't think it really fit the fit. Today is a classy day. Today's not a slutty day. Yeah, it's a classy day. Well, thank you for classing it up. Of course. Have you met Ariana yet? No, I haven't. Really? Okay, let's look her up. Please.

Do you have a favorite Ari era? I mean, Dangerous Woman was like... Yeah! It was like my shit. I just think that Into You is like the best pop song ever created. Have you gone on record to say this before? I actually don't think so. This can unite... This can heal the nation's wounds. Okay. Because we can all...

I will all agree across generations that Into You is one of the best pop songs ever written. It certainly is. I truly think it is one of the best of all time. Yes. And I think it like didn't at first like get the recognition that it deserved. No. I do think it was actually pop perfection. And I remember talking to Ilya about it who like produced the song. And he was like, we crafted it over like such a long time. Yeah. That like first pre-chorus is... Is insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's a perfect song. So I think Dangerous Woman was like...

My favorite. There's also just like little album cuts that when I was younger were just like my shit. Just like in the car, like...

Really feeling them. Like, thinking about you. I love thinking about you. And Touch It. Or just, like, instant. I was going to say, Touch It. I almost feel like because Into You looms so large and people talk about that song, even though it, like, was a single and people agree it didn't get the shine, the song that gets lost is Touch It. I fully agree. Yeah. Yeah, it's, like, serotonin. So good. Crazy. Those hooks. Crazy. Wait, Ilya was It's Okay, I'm Okay? Mm-hmm.

So talk about that. It's the first time working with him, right? I've worked with him a couple times. No, he did stuff on the last album. I've worked with him like a couple times, but we haven't released that many records together. I write all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this was like one of my first...

First ones I wrote with him. When I first became like super aware of you was You Broke Me First. And do you want to know why? It's because I was scrolling and Kelly Clarkson had covered You Broke Me First on her show. And I remember she did like a different arrangement of it. Like she did like a more like, like, I guess like Kelly Clarkson. But the lyrics were jumping off.

And I was like, I get why she picked this song because the lyrics are great and you're such a great writer. And I feel like sometimes in the dance of it all, like when you see someone like slaying as hard and executing on such a level as you are, people aren't realizing that there's like real writing going on. Have you been doing that since before you started...

like taking dance as seriously or was it always like a equal passion or is that something that you discovered when you realized like recorded music could be a thing? Well, I started off as a dancer. Yeah. So trained super intensely since I was eight years old. Like,

40 hours a week. Like, I was at a ballet school. I was going to say, you're ballet trained. That's intense. Like, six hours of ballet a day. Like, very intense. At one point, I, like, literally went to Berlin to become a ballerina. Like, and then I was like, this isn't for me. Yeah. Because it was so difficult? Yeah. I mean, I was 12 at the time. I was, like, competing in ballet. Like, I was just like, I need to, I was so creative. I just needed to, like,

not do the same thing every day. Yeah. And then it was, do you think you could dance after that? Yeah, I did. So, I think I danced at age 13. And then when I was 13, so yeah, I was competing my whole life. Dance was like everything to me. I was like, this is the only thing I'm going to do in my life is dance. And then I went on So You Think You Can Dance and moved to LA for two and a half months. And then got back home to Calgary and I was...

I was just like, I am so bored. Like, I was just on TV. You came third place? Yeah, it was a really crazy two and a half months. Yeah. But you were in it till the bitter end. We were in it till the end. Wow. And I was like the only Canadian on this like American voted show. Yeah, right. Which is kind of impressive to place third. Yeah, it was weird. Like none of my friends or family could like vote in the show. Wow.

I'm like, well, fuck this sucks. But yeah, so I got home and I started this YouTube channel and I was like, I'm going to choreograph dances every week and post them every Friday and post them on YouTube. And then one day my camera broke and I was like, fuck, my camera broke. Like this is ruined. Like my Friday posting isn't happening. So then I locked myself in my bedroom and I was just like, I'm just going to write a song.

And so I taught myself how to play the chords of Tequila by Dan and Shay. - Wow, great one. - Great song. - Wow. - And I started playing these like C chords and then wrote this song in like two hours and then showed my parents and they were like, "Absolutely not. You cannot like put this on the internet." - Why? - What was the objection about?

is like not good like they didn't get it at the time but you were in this zone you were locked the in i was locked in two hours you wrote a song i was locked in they were like can you please shut up i was like singing so much and then like blew up overnight and just became that song that song blew up overnight like got called by like 14 record labels within like two weeks

And then all of a sudden, like I was like, okay, maybe I should like start songwriting more. Wow. Yeah. But I feel like there was a time when dance got kind of compartmentalized into something else and then you merged the two, right? Yeah. So, so then after eventually when I released, you broke me first at age 16, I was still in high school, finishing homeschooling and finishing everything and then doing dance on one side and then singing on the other side. And my career started to like pick up a little bit.

And, but I was stuck at home and COVID. So I started this like singing career, but I was like, dance is just so separate. Like this isn't a thing that should be mixed. Like, and so I just never knew how to connect the dots. I was just like, this will be the one side of me. And then the other side of me is just a thing of the past. Right. And that obviously as I grew up, like 17, 18, 19, I was just like, something is like really missing. And then

I ended up like being like, I want to do pop more intensely. And yeah. And so then I feel like I've like finally found a perfect mesh of like dance and singing. So what happened at SNL was...

You came in on Thursday to rehearse. Yeah, what happened? I want to know your perspective. It's just, because we get the feed, the camera feed upstairs on the 17th floor as we're writing and doing rewrites for the week. It was Jason Momoa as your host? Yeah, that was a fun show. It was fun. He was like giving everybody his like new vodka. Did he give you a bottle of vodka by the way? No.

Thank God, because you were a minor. Yeah. But you were on the bleachers. You were doing Greedy. Yeah. And everyone was like... It reminded me of when BTS came and they were doing their dances and everyone was like, ah! Like, something about dance on that stage is really, really powerful. Right. And you were doing it, like, throwing... I love... I was going crazy. Well, because...

And this is a crazy comparison, but I've been watching like old Jackie Chan movies and like that man uses his body like a fucking Swiss army knife and you were doing the same. I was like, you were going off and we were all screaming and with joy being like, this girl is amazing. And it was this moment on the writer's room where we were all like, we're just freaking out over you.

over you. Really? I was so nervous. I would imagine. It also just feels like on that stage is so small that like doing a dance break, I was like, is this kind of weird? No. I didn't know. I really didn't know because I was just like, oh my God, is this like a little extra to like be doing a full dance break on like

A little box. No. But I get, because it is so much smaller than you think. When you go in there, you're like, wait, this is the whole ass set. And also the sound in there is very like. It's weird. It's just a little empty sounding. Totally. Like it's like full, but then also empty in a way. Like I could hear every sneaker like. That's so crazy to think about. This is like crazy. Well, because it's like basically like, we call them the bleachers as it were, but it's like a mezzanine.

And it's wide. And then the floor audience is like to your left. Yes. And so you're performing this way, but most of the audience is like in this concentration. Yes. You're not really performing to the audience. No. Or to the cameras in a way. No. It's hard to parse it out. It is.

Did like the experience on like a show, like on a TV show help with that before or no? I think so. Yeah. The weird part about dancing and singing is when I was a dancer, I used to like hold all my nerves in my throat. Uh-huh.

- Oh, right. - And then I could just cough on stage and then no one would hear me 'cause the music was loud. - You're an asthma legend. - I'm an asthma legend. So that's a crazy. - The title of that, asthma legend. - Oh, okay. - Do you embrace it or did I say something insane? - No, I do embrace it. - Thank you. - Yeah, I mean, it stuck with me. - You've had to embrace it. - I had to, yes, of course. - I've just heard you talk about your inhaler. - Yeah, I do.

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that part, that's, I guess what I mean is it's like, when I say changed everything, I'm specifically talking about like the way that you fuse both sides of your creativity. Yeah. Because honestly, when I heard you broke me first, it would never have crossed my mind that you were not only a dancer, but the best dancer. Then when I found out, you know, she came from, so you think you could dance. I was like,

Huh? Because it really doesn't. It's so polar opposite. It's so polar opposite. And so then you make this decision and it's a greediest song that unlocked things or was it like that just the single in that group of things? I think it unlocked a lot for me. I think figuring out how to write over a beat that I would actually dance to was like mission impossible for me. I was just like, I write ballads and I know how to write over piano and chords and things that make me feel things. And then I basically just had to train myself to write over beat.

beats. Yeah. And it's hard. It's just like learning how to do something. Even the style of songwriting is changing because you've also said that like you like doing your set of chords, but now it's like songwriting now is like, it's got to take a weird little turn in the middle or something. Unpredictable. Yeah. Is it hard to keep up with? I mean, yeah, I think you're

it's just times are different now. Like I used to write songs for my middle school and high school emotional self. And that was just like my form of expression and very therapeutic for me. And now it's like my career. So it feels like now I envision it on tour. I envision it like, I think there's just like way more components that come into the songwriting room that just

change it for me. And that's like very inspiring thinking about tour and thinking about performances while you're writing. It has to be. Because I would imagine like, will you break it down and like do like, not to reveal what you're going to be doing, but like, will you give an acoustic set? Like, is that something that excites you? Yeah, I love acoustic sets too. Yeah. Because then it feels like that full side of me that, you know, isn't like the one I usually do on stage. Because you would imagine that it's like, like I'm someone that knew you from You Broke Me First and what struck me at first, because

I wasn't even hearing you sing it. I was hearing Kelly sing it. I was like, wow, these lyrics are great. And also for that to be one of your early songs, it's kind of complicated that like... It's kind of like complicated. It is complicated. And so the songwriting jumped out to me first. And then...

But probably the world first heard you on Greedy and knows you as a dancer. So most people don't know that you're going to give the songwriting depth that you're going to give. So that's going to be exciting for people to discover at the show. Yeah. I think my real fans know that. Sometimes it is difficult because people only see me doing a dance break online and they'll be like, she never sings. I'm like, fuck me. I'm singing this whole show. I've been singing. I've been singing. Yeah.

And sometimes they just like, they only see the dance break. So then I'm just like, oh, like, oh, it's sometimes like, you need to watch the whole show. You don't know. You don't know the whole picture. I think, I think the rollout for this album has been like mission accomplished. It's like, it's like it is all living in the same space. Thank you. Cause like,

it's okay. I'm okay. Like the first time I saw it, I was like, Oh my God. She's getting arrested. It's a pop moment. It's a pop moment. And then we went there and then two hands. I'm like, this is, this is the best thing I've ever seen. Yeah. It's really great. Thank you. Do you have a car thing? It,

It was mostly just because I feel like the album was like a lot of it just was around like these road visuals. Every time that I would like write a song, I would just envision like a never ending road. And maybe that was because I was literally on the road all year and like felt like things were never ending. Yeah.

But I had that like constant visual in my head. So when I heard Two Hands, I was like, we could do a video like this. That could be really sick. It's gas station vibes. And then Sports Car just happened to be named Sports Car. Yeah. Totally. Okay. You literally, you're saying tour felt never ending. You just finished. Yeah. You're about to go back. Yeah. How does that sit with you?

I mean, luckily, I love tour. Yeah. I think it's very fun. This is also my first time doing arenas. Yeah? I was going to say. Which has been like a lifelong dream of mine. So I'm very like excited for that. You have to be. It feels like a new chapter. I also, as a dancer, I feel like you...

are just used to just like never stopping. Oh, I get that. So the pace of life is, is it will be daunting for anyone, but it's something that you're accustomed to. Yeah, I think so. As a dancer. Because the ballet training is like, you might as well be living in like a nunnery. That's like, it's so disciplined. It is. It's crazy. It's exhausting. I,

Honestly, ballerinas, I think, have one of the hardest jobs in the world. Right. Yeah. This is easier than that. Sometimes being a pop star feels a little easier in some way. Like a little bit. Oh my God. Like a little more relaxing. Do you find that you can connect with other pop girls? Because it sounds like, of course, for fans being like, oh, like...

they think about the pop girly thing and like, you know, there's that discussion obviously about like Charlie and Lorde and like them bridging the gap and everything. How have you felt it's been like entering that lexicon of people? You know what I mean? Of like pop girls? Yeah, do you feel like there's like support in a school? Yeah, I mean, we luckily, I think right now we're in a time of just like, there's so much hate on the internet and so much hate in the world that like internally, it's just like very supportive, the most supportive. Yeah.

And all we want to do is see each other win. Yeah. Like all my friends and I, we just have very wholesome relationships. Yeah, that's so nice. Anytime we hang out, it's just very wholesome. I think that's very lucky right now because it is like, we all know how much we get like beat up on the internet. So it's like nice to have friends that like are actually really nice. It's like demonic outside your little cookie circle. Yeah. So literally we're like, oh.

Should we do, should we knit? Like, it's literally like very sweet. Because the only thing you guys have in common is that you are getting insane energy from the internet. Yeah. That is the only thing you guys share. Well, and that they do music. Yeah, and that we write music. Yeah.

But because of that circumstance, you know what I mean? Like that is like, that's the thing. Yeah. It is. It is weird. It is weird because sometimes like, you're just like, I just started writing for fun. And then it becomes this fucking thing. It becomes a huge, you're like, whoa, like you don't expect to get, we know that you're like meant to be,

and music is subjective, but you never expect like the personal attacks. No. The war that breaks out. You're like, oh, this is a huge deal for no reason. Right. And that is crazy. Was Amy Allen...

She was on Think Later too? Or you guys were working together even before that? Yeah, I started working with her on Think Later and this album. And this album. I feel like she's getting this shine now because of the Grammy. Yeah. She just won and working through you and Sabrina. Talk about that process because it seems like you two are very keyed into each other in terms of the work ethic. Yeah. I mean, Amy Allen is one of the most talented songwriters I've ever met in my life. She's

so incredible such a badass girl I worked with her and Julia Michaels a lot on this album I think it's just interesting like no one understands a girl perspective quite like another girl so like you can like

have other producers in the room but it's just like she gets it like I can kind of just like say this is happening with my boyfriend and she'll be like oh my god exactly the same and it's easier to like put into words yeah totally but it is it's very inspiring we have two different like processes in songwriting and obviously different perspectives because we're just have grown up differently so it's

It's been really fun. I just feel like I get new knowledge every time I work with her. So when you guys are together, is it like she hops on the keys? Like, wait, what is it? Like, what is it? No, no. I'm literally like, sometimes when I see these people, like, I just wonder like who actually plays in the room. You know what I mean? The process to me is what's so...

Okay, well, it kind of depends. So if I'm in the studio alone and I'm just writing on my own, someone will play chords or whatever and I'll like sit in the corner for like a couple hours, write, go into the studio, track, and that's it. If I'm with like a co-writer, like an Amy or a Julia or a Ryan, it's like,

usually we'll start a beat or whatever. We'll kind of get like the vibe for the song. Then we'll discuss what the song is about. Cause you both need to be on the same page. Right. You're working towards the same goal. Right. And then it usually just becomes like this, like you find the magic at some point of what the song is and what you both relate on. And then you kind of just like spit back and forth, like different lyrics back and forth. And until the song is like built.

So, but a lot of times it like starting with a beat and a track and then like a feeling develops around it. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a preference on a style? Is it like, is solo? Cause speaking, I mean, this is not quite the same thing. Like I always prefer writing with people when it comes to like, you know, comedy or show or scripts or whatever. It's like, I've learned to like not feel so bad about like, oh, I don't do so well on my own. But like, do you have one preference? Yeah.

It's honestly just different. Like you, other people have different strengths. Like Ryan Tedder is so good at a pop chorus. And that is his strength. So I'm just like, God, if I'm going to...

Like Ryan, Amy, those are like pop courses that like, yes, usually write. The first thing they sing is like, feels really good. But if I'm writing something that I feel like is hard to communicate, like,

Sometimes I feel like I can't really, I have a hard time discussing my emotions. Totally. So explaining it to someone is really even more complicated. So what I do is I need to be alone. I need to like have my subconscious thoughts, like spit it out for me. Yeah. And then I can like find perspective on the situation, the relationship. Cause I just really am not great at communicating. And that's like why I started writing in the first place. So, but if I have like a concept, it's less complicated.

deep, deep, deep in the back of your head, then it's fine with another person. Yeah, because either way, you're just making sense of what the song is about. Yeah. Whether it's just you needing to like spill it out, like spill for a couple hours or that you're like reconvening with Ryan and Amy and Julia to be like, what is this going to be? Yeah. It's the same destination. And there's a lot of times where concepts are really obvious and they're like, oh, this is what I need to write about, whatever. And then there's a lot of times where it's,

you can only find perspective at the end of the process. Because then you figure out what you actually meant. And that just takes a lot of digging. And that's where I need to be alone. But if it is an obvious concept and it's just something that is happening in my everyday life, there's some things that are sometimes buried so deep that you're just like, I don't even know where this came from. What's an example of an obvious concept on the album? I would say an obvious concept...

Like a song called Signs. I love Signs. We both said that was one of our favorites. Signs is like the most obvious because I'm like, okay, can you please fucking read my mind? Yeah. You need to just like do better. Yeah. You need to be able to read me. Yes. If this is going to move forward, I shouldn't have to do anything. No, literally like...

should just know already. You should know already. So this was me and Amy walking in. It was a five minute combo being like literally read my mind. And then we started writing the song. So that was very obvious. Quick conversation. Nothing too deep.

I would say a song like Purple Lace Bra. Yeah. Took a second to like, it was me writing some concepts on my own and then came into the room and I cracked it with Amy because I had an idea and she helped me like shape it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one was like a little less obvious. So just like connect all this to when you were younger because like songwriting is something you find out of like the camera breaking, et cetera. But before that, like you're doing dance and we'll ask you like the, the,

central question of the podcast in a second, but I just wonder, like, as someone who was around, you know, girls doing dance contests all the time and like that was such a fun thing that we all did with each other as kids. Yeah. Like, did you have a long period of dance being really fun for you before it became like a job? And if so, or if not, how did you find the fun in it again? Yeah.

I've always just been obsessed with dance. Yeah. So it never got like, it's too much on the schedule. Like I'm hating dance right now. Not really. It only started to get ugly at like age 16, 17, where I was like,

I want to go to high school. I hear you. And I want to be a kid. And I remember feeling that with like, I want to go to school with my brother. I want to go to a party. Yeah. I want to drink alcohol. I want to like, it was just like that feeling of like, I need to be normal. Right. And yet you have this extraordinary gift and opportunity. Yeah. It was like, it was a catch-22 because I felt like,

the coolest I ever felt was when I was like in my element like I didn't feel like cool in school or like my personality always felt like a little awkward and so I was like oh I'll feel myself when I am in my art and in my craft and that's when people will like fully understand me right so it was weird because then I went to high school and I was like oh my god like now I've

even more feelings because I feel so out of place. And it was like, I'm not at ballet school anymore. And so then it drove me after that to like, you know, I think really get into it again. So to go back to it. Yeah.

Because high school is a fucking beast. Beast. Yeah. I still think looking back, it was the hardest time. Yeah. And they really tried to make you think this is the best four years ever. You're always going to want to be there. You couldn't pay me. To go back. No. No, I felt the same. High school was interesting. Calgary High School was interesting. Like, what's the vibe in Calgary High School? Yeah.

Is it Degrassi? Probably the same. No, honestly, it was like, it was like normal. It was just like. The vibe, okay, because I grew up in a first, a quick little second, I grew up in Brossard in Quebec. Oh, whoa, okay. And maybe it's a French Canadian thing, but it's like, it always seemed a little bit, ironically, it seemed a little bit grittier. Okay. Like more in your face, but that's maybe the French.

the French Canada thing. Like, probably. Calgary? I don't know. But Calgary feels like... It's like, it's not... It's not BC. It's like...

It feels like for real Canadians. It's like real Canada. You know what I mean? It is. The streets. The streets of Canada. The streets. Yeah. The one street. The one street. Wait, so, okay, so, but it just, it was rough. It was just hard. It made you feel, like, it made us feel like crazy. Yeah, it did make me feel a little crazy. Because I was just like, oh, I feel really out of place. Yeah. And I...

I feel so, I thought I like overthought and overanalyzed myself before this. Now I'm like, my personality is like the biggest problem in the world. But would you say like, did that feed the songwriting at all? Yeah. So that's when I like really started to, I mean, I loved writing since I was a little kid. I write short stories and poems all the time, but that's when I really started to get into songwriting because I felt so...

fucking crazy. And I was just like, people need to understand me. It's like the second or third time you've said that it's like about being understood. It's not about being like impressive or anything, which I think is so interesting because your skills are so impressive, but it's not about that. It's about more you getting yourself across and being understood. For sure. That's what it has always been for me is just like literally not being able to explain myself and then

being able to explain myself fully through dance and singing and feeling so seen exactly how I want. Yeah. That's weird. You feel like when you listen to your albums, like, is that the number one thing you want? Is like, I feel like I got myself across there. Like, or what is it? That's the goal. Yeah. I think it's hard to do that because sometimes you're so locked in a bubble that of perfecting songs that you're just like, whoa, what was that? Yeah. But that's, I think at the end of the day, the goal out of every album. I think last time when you were like,

I have a harder time writing from a place of joy and happiness because I... Is that still true? Yeah, I think...

You need to hurt. It sounds so depressing. And I ask that in such a crazy way. I'm just saying like, because you do write from this place of like, I need to get these emotions out. I need to process in this way. And I don't need to process happiness because I'm feeling happy in the moment. It's hard to be driven by happiness to express. You know, I think I'm a pretty happy person. I ask that in such a crazy way. No, no, it was a great way. I mean, it's exactly what it is. I feel like I'm a very...

normally happy and like stable person. But then there's like one little hole inside of me that's so fucking sad. Yeah. And I don't know what that is. And it just like, that's what I write from. Do you get closer to figuring it out? Like, is it like, what is it? Is it men?

Has it been men? Well, it's not now. The answer is always yes. Yeah. I get that. I really don't know what it is. It's always like, it's been since I was like a little, little kid. It might be because I'm a Cancer. Yeah. Okay. Cancer, Pisces, Scorpio. World Water Science. Scorpio. Okay. Yeah. What? I know more about Pisces than I do Scorpio. Scorpio is the dark Pisces. Whoa.

And I say that in like all positive ways. Like Scorpio has the edge that Pisces can't muster up. And I feel that way about Cancer too. That...

We don't have the edge? No, no, no, no. You guys do have the edge. You and I are cancer queens. Right. We're like a little spicy, but really sensitive. But mostly protective. Right. Like, so that's the hard shell. Whereas like Scorpio, it's more of the stinger. You know what I mean? It's like Scorpio don't cross because, I mean, I always say about him, he doesn't suffer fools. Right. Whereas I'm like, I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt until, and blame myself until I'm like a puddle. Right. Right.

Cancer and Pisces get along really well. Same with Scorpio. We all get along really well. We're the three water signs. Yeah. Kind of cool. We all belong splashing around together. We do in the ocean. So we can protect each other, but also open each other up.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I feel like when you do write from a place of joy and happiness, it like, it is a huge sort of success because like Two Hands, I feel like it's so joyful. Yeah, it is. Well, I think then that clicks into my like performer side. Yeah. Which feels like my alter ego, feels like my side on tour, feels like the mode that isn't my like...

sensitive self is like what I turn on when it's time to perform. Yes. And that's, if I'm going to write that kind of song, I have to be in that headspace. So my question is like when, when you are like creating a record that like pretty much already beforehand, because you've had such huge success,

success on streaming and radio and everything and you're such an exciting artist and you're creating a new album is there the pressure every time to go in there and like write a hit or is it more just about like today we're writing a single or like today we're right we're trying to fill out like something that I want to explore like I guess how intentional is the process of writing something that's meant to catch to catch

I mean, it's so hard because I try not to approach it that way because you just want to like go in and experiment for like months. Sure.

And then there hits a point where your label's like, okay. Where's the single though? Experimentation is done. Where's the single? And then it becomes really fucking stressful because then you're just like, oh my God, what's the song? And this is where I become the most indecisive person. Of course. Like my team like wants to shoot me when I'm picking a single because I...

I can't decide. Don't hurt Tay. But isn't it crazy though that they do turn to you and then they're like, even for me in my comedy album, they turned to me and they were like, so what's the single? And I was like, oh, I was supposed to pick? I feel like, isn't that, don't you feel like, it's kind of nice that it's your responsibility, but also you're like, oh God, it's my responsibility. You're so close to it, you can't see it. It's like, you can't see your own work when you're in the middle of creating it. Like, so...

words and jumbles. Yeah. You're like hearing yourself talk and sing back. That's like you can't pick

You can't pick from that. It's also like such a ready-made drag from the fan community. Like, oh, she picked the wrong single. You know what I mean? That's the worst fear. And we as like people that talk about pop culture like all the time, like we're guilty of it. Like, you know what I mean? Like when our fave like in retrospect, like clearly should have picked something else as the first single. It's like, you know, you're like, it's like a thing, but it's not as easy as hearing the hit. You can't read people's minds. It's a special skill and I don't have it.

I think you have it. I literally cannot pick a single. It's so not obvious to me. It all sounds the same. But that shouldn't be part of your job. No. But it literally is. And that sucks. It is literally part of my job. Yeah. And a very important part. Yeah. How have you felt about the singles this go around? Like, are you excited about the ones you picked? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think...

Everything happens for a reason. Yeah. And what's the reason? The reason is like, I think you can always have doubts about songs, not like things about some songs, like things about other songs and wish. The worst part is like, you love things and then it's like the week to release, you know, this is the worst fucking song I've ever heard in my life. Just because you've listened to it too much at that point? Yes. And now you're just like processing it too much. But I think singles happen for a reason. I think they've like...

They make sense. And the album will make it all come together. Yeah. Do you have a favorite song? Off the album? Yeah. Like what's the one you can't wait for everyone to get to? Okay. I'm excited for Blood On My Hands. Yeah. And I'm excited for Like I Do because I feel like it's a little different. Like I Do is great. Flo Millie, I've loved forever. Yeah. She's great. She's got like... Sounds great. She does sound great. I've just also never done a song like that with a rapper. Right. Yeah. It's really cool. Is this your first time with like a hip hop feature?

Oh, great. I know. It's fun. Major. Major laser. Yeah. Okay. I want to shout out green light because the bridge on that, there's, is it a vocal effect? Cause there's like a, like, you know what I'm talking about?

It's sick. Thank you. I love Greenlight too. I think... That was another one of our favorites. Signs and Greenlight were the ones we shouted out. Greenlight was one that I wrote on my own. That was a hidden one where I was like, I don't know how I feel right now in this relationship. And not in a bad way. Not in like... I don't know how I feel. It was more or less just being like, what am I feeling? And what I had felt was I was like still hurt from a past relationship. Yeah. And then I was like, fuck, I feel like I'm like waiting at a...

a green light and I literally just can't press the gas. And I thought that was such a weird feeling. And that was like the road metaphor. But that one was, that one was fun to write. I liked that one too. There's like, there's wow. There's like the poetry in that is like huge. Thank you. Yeah. I feel that way so many times. Yeah. It's just, it's hard to believe in yourself.

It's hard to believe that you're like, yeah, sure, you're giving me the go-ahead, but is it going to be worth it once you really get on the ride with me? Totally. And it's scary. Of course. Yeah. And also, you just can't unhear or undo things that have happened to you in the past. No, you can't. They're just stuck with you. You are now just a reflection of your past. And you have to learn how to have a better experience and overshadow that or fall in love again and feel the good things again. But you have to...

jump off first before you fall in love. I think the scary thing is it's like when you see how much you can give and how much it can go away, it's like, why would you ever do that again? I know. And also knowing that the people who give you the most, also you lose the most from them because they gave the most. It's so weird. Like you never do this with friendships or with things in life where...

You are the closest person and then it's all of a sudden just like nothing. Yeah. Like that is so shocking to the system. It's a death. Like it is a death. Heartbreak is so awful. Yeah. There's like, oh, I was talking about this the other day and I was just like,

That was one of the worst feelings ever. Any type of heartbreak, you're just like, what is this? I shouldn't care this much, but I care so much. You care so much because also it's like, because it's not actually a death, then people come in with their opinions on what you should be doing to get over it, how much

time is okay, but it's literally grief. It is the loss of a person and you wouldn't talk about someone's grief about an actual like loss to death in that way. So I don't think people should necessarily be judging it

Like, every time I think of myself in my past being like, girl, come on, move on. Like, you know what it is. It's like, now that I've been through stuff, like, you can't. You can't. I've never bought into, like, it takes this long to get over something. What do they say? Like, half the duration of what it was? Really? That's wrong. It's just wrong. It is wrong. Don't listen to people who tell you that. I agree.

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Okay, so it's time for us to ask the question that we ask of all of our guests. This is Tate McRae. What was the culture that made you say culture was for you? This is when you can pinpoint... I think I started to become myself when that moment of pop culture entered my life. Okay, I've thought long and hard about this because...

I'm really not like that into pop culture. But that's fine. Any culture. Okay. But I will say like one moment, I was like a big Disney Channel kid when I was younger. Yeah, let's go. And I really do think that that shaped my personality. And I remember that Hannah Montana was life-changing for me. For sure. Just like me being like, well, I have to become a pop girl now. Yeah. I have no other option. Like I have to become a pop star now because that is...

So sick. I will have a place where I can put that version of me. Yeah. She kind of was doing what you talked about, which is like, I do want to be a kid, but also I know I'm a superstar and that's how they'll understand me. Totally.

Yeah, no, that's how I kind of felt like in high school. Like not to that extent, of course, but like a little bit. Did that open up a country music for you too in a way or no? Like, did it make me want to do country music? Or just like, did it give you an appreciation? Like you're like Billy Ray. Like who's this man? Who's this man? I can see you doing country. You know what? I can too because Calgary for some reason is kind of country. Like we have like this one month in the summertime where literally the whole place is like haystacks,

cowboy hats only country music isn't there a festival yeah Stampede yeah so weird like it's just for one month like awesome the whole town goes goes country straight country there's yeah whatever so I'm like actually into country music yeah but I did feel that like coming home like when Miley would come home and she'd sing the climb and she'd take off her wig and she'd be like it's just me like I just like remember being like this is gonna be me one day like

But literally, look. Yeah. It's giving Hannah Montana. Right. Honestly, too, was it also a little bit like seeing Miley and also seeing her as someone that was...

because I would imagine that it's like the Disney star thing looms so much around the Disney channel and like Hannah Montana. It's like, you see kids that are your age or kids that you can identify with, like in the industry proving that it's somehow possible. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was really shoved in our faces at that age of like Disney channel was glamorizing pop stars. Yeah. Every show like camp rock, even that was our era. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, oh my God. High school musical, they were singing. Yes. Yes, exactly. Just being like, whoa, like, this is legit. Yeah. You want to be a star. I'm going to sing. Yes. Right. I just remember that feeling. Like, this is the shit. This is the only thing in life is music. So Miley and Hannah are like the locusts. And does it then bring in like Selena and Zendaya and Ari? Yeah. I think that's the whole lore. I think that's what...

I wish I could like go back and be like, oh, it was an earlier pinpoint, but really it was Disney Channel. No, that's the perfect pinpoint. That was when it like my brain was forming and I was, that was, I was watching that every day being like,

Alex and Mrs. Waverly Place is my personality. Hannah Montana is my life. And I'm going to go do Camp Rock with Joe Jonas. Like that was like my whole, like this is going to be my life. Yeah. That's powerful. Right. That's like, no, it's powerful. By the way, did we get Disney Channel in Canada? Yes. When I grew up there, it was like YTV was it? You didn't get it?

Oh, YTV is like a channel. But YTV was like Canada's Nickelodeon? We had... My family had Disney Channel. You didn't have cable. I didn't even have cable. But you would go to school and you would stay after school and you would watch YTV and there was a show called Uh-Oh and you would get slime. Can I tell you what you... I remember YTV. Yeah, no. We had different versions of it. Can I tell you what you would have been absolutely obsessed with? Because we're obviously the same age. You would have rode so hard for Lizzie McGuire. I know I... No, I know I would have. Yeah. Yeah, Lizzie McGuire was...

She was everything. Yeah, she was. She was. There was a sleepover in the fifth grade. It was all boys, mind you. Okay. And for some reason, it was like midnight. One of the boys, straight as an arrow, allegedly, decides to put on Lizzie McGuire. The movie or just the show? Just the show. And then it's all of these boys talking about how hot Hilary Duff is. Yeah. Whoa. And I was just like,

but she's being funny. Yeah. You can't see her talent? I'm like, but she's so, but first and foremost, she's a talent. Oh my God. And they were all like, yeah. That is so sweet. But all these guys were like,

yanking it. It's so weird to think about the concept of teen idol because that's essentially what that is. It's like all the girls wanting to like, for example, someone like Hilary Duff, she's so famous at a time when everyone is going through puberty. Yes. That's weird. I know. It is weird. That's crazy. It is crazy.

Very formative years in your life. Yeah. I remember my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend's older brother had a life-size cutout of Hilary Duff. And I was like, now looking back, I'm like, what happened there? No. Red flag. Red flag. But then it's like, it's,

I was so into her music too. Right. Come clean. I still think come clean is one of the great songs. The club remix of that. So we're just seeing the talent. We're just seeing the talent. Literally. Okay. How did you meet current boyfriend? How did I meet current boyfriend? I have known him for three years. We've been friends. Mm-hmm.

And it wasn't until last year I was in Cabo and he happened to be in Cabo at the same time. And we have never had one good interaction. We're in the same friend group. So we have the same like...

and we hang out all the time and we had never had one non-awkward experience. - Really? - So it's like a rivals to romance kind of thing. - Like a little bit. He's like, "We weren't enemies." I'm like, "Yes, we were." - Wow. - We just had this feeling where like every time we would say something to each other, it was just like not what we planned to say. Like the most social suicide moments of all time. Like I would trip every time I'd see him or I'd like try to dap him up. I'm like, "Why the fuck did I just dap him up?" - Yeah, right.

so weird. I wouldn't dab up anyone else. No. Literally, I'm like, what was that? Like, I was so out of character. And I remember he used to be like, why do my, why do these friends like, like Tate? And I'd be like, why do my friends like Leroy? And how do we all get along? And then Cabo, we became. But you just happened to be in Cabo at the same time? Yeah. That's amazing. And he texted me and he was like, are you here? And I was like, yes. And then we,

Got together. Got together. He's great on the album too. Yeah, he's so great. Thank you. Yeah. I will say, do you think looking back now, you like, it was a subconscious, you liked him the whole time? No. Um, I, I,

I think I'm so about personality. Like if we have like a funny connection or like you like get me, that's when I'll really get a crush on someone. It's never from like first glance. Yeah. Like ever. And so he like got you eventually. Yeah. Cause we actually had good conversations that trip and like, yeah, it's,

It felt like we finally clicked. We finally got each other. Was this after SNL? Yes. Okay, because I remember at SNL, the after, but do you remember this? You and I were like in the room trying to like scope out. You were like, who's single? You were like, who's single? Oh, that's so funny. I was like, I was like, well, I was really in my single era. Yeah. There's a lot of eligible bachelors around there. What I told Tate was, I don't think there are a lot of options. There was no one at that party. There was no one at that party. Yeah, I was sitting beside some people and I was like.

We are not hitting it off. One of my favorite stories is it was like SNL after party. It was the Lizzo episode. And you remember this? We were all at the after party and Lizzo came in ready to party. She had changed her dress. She came in ready to slay. 20 minutes later, she leaves going, guess not. The party was dead. Alchemy just isn't happening again. Because I've heard it's like can be the craziest thing on earth. That night it was like,

It was like mid-level. Your words. Right? Yeah, yeah, sure.

It's like any party. It's like if there's an alchemy, there's an alchemy. Totally. I can't speak ill of the SNL after party because it's, you know, this hallowed thing. You were supposed to come with the birds eye view on the actual eligible guys there. And I pitched a few, but I was like, but no, like, they weren't working. They weren't working. Like, Tate needs something special. And then look, now you're with your guy. But that was tough. I really don't like looking for guys. Like, it's so exhausting. It's the worst. You would rather be pursued.

I'd much rather be like natural. Like it just happens. Yeah. Totally. Like friends to lovers. I'm like that. Bad vibe. But that's Leroy in a way. That was that vibe for sure. Which felt way more natural. Totally. I'm not like a big like... Like flirt up front. That's not the cancer vibe anyway. No. Is that you flirt? That's not me. So this hate on stage...

It's not the Tate flirt game. It is so funny. The Tate on stage is like so polar opposite to my actual personality. Hannah Montana. Hannah Montana. I'm going to get dragged for like... Oh, please. We all wanted to be her. We all wanted to be her and she's an icon. But yeah. Yeah. So I don't know this like person that I am on stage. My mom is always just like...

what is this? Like, I'm like, I don't know. She's like, you're too sexy or you're too like, it's too much. Like, the eyes are too intense. I'm like, it's not me. Like, cause I have like these like lock in eyes. Like when you're on stage, it's just like, it's happening. It's time. Um, but it's just,

It's like very different from my actual personality. So it's like shocking sometimes to my family. Well, because you're so... You are very like chill and mellow in conversation. And then like in the videos on stage, it's like you are... It's the eyes. You're locked in. We're locked in. But like two hands. It's okay. I'm okay. I'm just like... Even like Run for the Hills. I'm just like you are...

You are dialed in in an amazing way. And I'm like, it's so interesting to hear you say that. Like it literally is Hannah.

In conclusion. Well, imagine you like went on stage for the first time you ever performed, like locked in where galvanized and came off and it never went away. Like your mom would be really freaked out then. That'd be terrifying. My daughter's locked in. Right. What do I do? Can you please help? My daughter's locked in. She's so locked in. My daughter's too locked in. She's so dialed. Yeah. Describe the persona. Who is she? What's she about? My alter ego kind of. Yeah, yeah. So,

Sasha Fierce. Literally. I've made it into like a joke, so I talk about it like way too much, like probably way more than I should. But it's... I call her Tatiana. Tatiana is a really good name for her. Yeah, Tatiana. And it's just...

When I go on stage, I black out. Like, I don't actually remember that much. We just, like, perform. You know what you're saying? Because we leave our bodies sometimes. Like, you feel this way. Yes. Right? Like, you feel like you're... It's now just, like, a thing with your body and God. Like, in the universe. And it's just, like, you get possessed. And that's the best performance. When I become too aware of, like...

I always say, this is like the craziest example. When you're on stage and you become too aware and too in your body, it feels like you're like manually breathing. You know when you're in bed and you're like,

Yeah. Remember that you have to breathe. Yes. And then you stop breathing. So like, this is really, this is an automatic thing. Yeah. I've never heard someone describe it this way. This is, this is huge. Okay. Don't think about it before bed. If you, cause you'll die. Cause you'll die. If you think about breathing before bed, you will stop breathing. Oh shit. Cause it is so automatic. When you become aware of yourself,

It's over. Yeah. So like, that's, I mean, that's, that's just it. You're just, it's, and then when you're on stage and you have people watching you and you're like, you forget how to like walk and move. And so you have to turn into someone else. I have to. Otherwise I become way too aware. Right. And then I could like do nothing normal. Like nothing is, it's just like, you have to be in a different body or a different space. Like it's crazy conceptually to think about the fact that you wrote a song for

for two hours in your room and then weeks later it was like okay like a bunch of people saw this and now they're knocking on my door to like get me to sign yeah and then that's the kind of the same thing where it's like you wrote a song you ever wrote first song you ever wrote but it's like yeah there's just like it kind of translates to this idea of like you wrote something and you like it's very intimate interior experience and then you're doing an arena tour with all these songs that you wrote in the privacy of your own studio you know yeah

It's bizarre. I don't know. It's like a stoner thought, but you know what I mean? It's like, it's crazy. That's crazy you wrote a song and then you had to perform it. It's so crazy. It's really crazy. Yeah, it is. No, but that's where I get like all... That's where I feel like the universe is just like planning everything out because I'm like...

these coincidences and these things happening like aren't aren't just like random like they're just meant to happen like and I think that like

Yeah, I feel like you know that from a young age. You kind of know what you're going to do. What's the venue that you're most gagged about performing? Like that you can't really believe is happening? Well, the Forum will be fun. The Forum is going to be great. Doing a couple nights there, which will be fun. And MSG again. Yes. I love. That's wild. I know. MSG is just special. Just...

New York? I just bought a place in New York. Good for you. Thank you. New York is just like my place. Yes. New York is the best. It's so magical there. I love to hear it. Yeah. Honestly, oh God, just that there is nothing like it.

Do you see a lot of live shows too? Do you go to a lot of stuff? I try. I'm just like on tour a lot. Did you see the Sweat Tour? Yes, I did. Did you see that at Madison Square Garden? I saw that at the Forum. Okay, so I heard the Forum was great. Madison Square Garden, I thought it was going to flip over. Really? Yes, it was so crazy. Charlie's, I mean, Troy's music just sounds different in there because like it's more of a vibe. It was kind of breathing. I love like the Charlie and Troy show because it was like,

when Troy was out there it was like cool and like pillowy and gorgeous and then Charlie came out and just like punched you in the face and it was rotating between that but when she was in that venue I thought it was gonna flip over that was one of the best shows I've seen in a very long time it was so good so well I loved the two of them flipping on and off I haven't seen a show like that before that needs to happen more often I think so too not since Justified Stripped

Or the then scrapped Kanye Gaga tour. Oh, wow. 2009. It's crazy to think about that as a reality. It was going to happen. And then it got canceled after the VMAs after a military finish. Something split in the fabric of culture at that night. We were just talking about that. That was so consequential for like all of pop culture history that night. Him doing that. Yeah, it was...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, you did Tokyo for the last tour? Yes, I did. Tell me everything. What'd you think? We just went to Tokyo for the first time. We ate so much steak. Yes. I turned into a grain of rice. I ate so much.

I love rice. Like we just like, but we had like the best time ever. Like Tokyo is one of my favorite places. It's magical. It's crazy. Yeah. It's, I've never seen it. We, we played with pigs. Yes. You went to a micro pig cafe? We did. That was like number one. Micro pig? Yeah. They're, they're like, well, they're maybe not micro. They're big. They're big. They're macro pigs.

They're macro pigs. They're macro pigs? That sounds horrifying. There's like a street in Harajuku, or I don't know, I don't know if this is the one you went on, but there's like multiple places in Tokyo where it's like the puppy cafe, no problem. The kitten cafe, no problem. Yeah. The new animal is the micro pigs. Yes.

And then the even newer one is Otter Cafe. Yeah, those are crazy. Those are crazy. Yeah. It's a cafe with otters? You eat, you pay, you like order some food, you eat, you sip your tea, and then they run around and they come up to you. Yeah, and they like sit in your lap. Okay. Yeah. This is too precious. No, it was perfect. And then they all stack on top of each other. So there's like eight in your lap at once. So what animal are you? You can't say micro pig because I'll fight you. I don't know if I'd say.

It's fine. I'm so not a micro pig. What do you think yours is? What are your guys? People that wanted to really drag me to hell would be like, I'm some sort of reptile. Okay. But I don't think I am. I don't really see that. I would like to be some sort of crazy bird. Okay. I could see that. You can? Yeah. Why are you laughing? I'm not laughing. I'm just like picturing it. I feel like I'm a bird. I feel like definitely giving... Ostrich? They don't even fly, bitch.

I was going to say eagle. I don't think you're an osprey. I was going to say falcon. I'm a falcon. Yeah, okay. You're a falcon. So with that, what are you? I might be a pig. I might be a pig of some kind. Okay. I don't know. I feel like you're more of like a koala or something. Oh, that's so neat. Yeah, I'll take koala. Chlamydia down. You know they're all chlamydia. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'll be koala. I feel like I would be a... Don't look at him. I feel like you're...

I want to be a cheetah, but I'm not a cheetah. You are so a cheetah. No, you're absolutely a cheetah. What are you talking about? You don't think you're a cheetah? I don't think I'm that fast. It's not about speed. It's just about the demeanor. Right. You have a cheetah energy. Really? Yeah. Like when you're on stage, like that's who that girl becomes. Tatiana is a cheetah. She's a cheetah. She's a leopard. I could be more of like a rhino or something. Rhino? Have some respect for yourself. I feel like they're like...

I love that we're asking her what she thinks she is. And we're like, no! I think you are a cheetah. Okay, I'll take it. It's Tate and Tatiana. You know what I mean? Yeah, together. We're a cheetah. Because a cheetah writes, too. Just a little slower. Yeah, sure. Like a little slower than a cheetah. So maybe Mountain Lion. Okay. I like that. Mountain Lion is good. Stands above, sees the world for what it is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you call her Tati sometimes? Or is it full-on Tatiana? I call her Tatiana.

Yeah, don't say Tati to her. Tatiana will fuck you up. Yeah, she will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Was Tatiana getting arrested or was that Tate? That was Tatiana for sure. Tatiana should have crossed the road. You would never get arrested. No. What are your crimes that you've committed? I've actually never committed a crime. Never? I'm a big goody two-shoes. Really? Yeah, I don't... I really do not cause any trouble. I will say. That's good. Disney Channel vibes. Yeah. Like, I'm one of those good kids. I am good. I'm pretty wholesome. Team, is this true?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm pretty good at tissue. So like that, that rest scene was, was funny. My parents were on set too. Oh, they were? Was it giving a pasty vibe? I don't know. It wasn't even naked. It was, okay. Yeah. Let me say this. Set the record straight. This like got, like the editing was so good that it looked like I was super naked. I was in like full on, like a workout set. Just beige. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I was sitting there and I'm just doing my acting. Yeah. Like whatever. So it wasn't even that intense. And so my parents were like, woo. Yeah. So they were like, we're so down. We're so down. That's Tatiana out there getting his topless arrested. This is pop. Yeah, this is pop. My dad was like, yes. Like they were just like, this is really cool. And then the editing came back. Right. And it looked so good.

So realistic. It was giving girls gone wild. It was giving like, whoa, like they did too good. Sure. They did too good. And the final edit wasn't until like two days before. Oh, wow. So we had been all the edits. Everyone was like, oh, this is great. It was like beige. And the final edit was like so realistic. So real. That all of us were kind of numb to it. So when I was like, when the internet became like shocked, I was like, oh, like...

I didn't really like think too hard about this. Are you, but they'll, the internet will always think too hard. Of course. That's their job. So that was, that was funny because it wasn't actually like, it wasn't that like naked on set. Shit,

Shit, I'm sorry that I said tits out earlier. It's okay. It was disrespectful. I'm apologizing all throughout this episode. I didn't take any offense to it. Okay. No, she was cool as a cucumber. Cool as a cucumber. I have a question. How long does choreo live in you? Oh, that's good. Do you need to be refreshed? How much do you need to be refreshed? Okay, so I can pick up pretty fast, I would say. Yeah.

Like I can learn it right before, memorize it and perform it. Like for when we premiered, it's okay. I'm okay. Like we learned it the day before. Wow. And then did it. Once I do the performance, it's out of my head. Yeah. I don't remember unless we rehearse it for weeks and then it like sticks. Because something else has to go up in the brain. Yeah. I have like no memories. But for sure, like what would you do? I was going to ask if you have a favorite dance break of all time. Like if you have a favorite pop music dance break.

Of all time? Like, what's one that you're like, that she or he shredded that? I need to think. I know, because now it's going to, that's the thing. It's like, whatever you say is going to have weight because now you're the queen of the dance break. That's a hard question.

- I need to think on that for a second. - Yeah, now think on it. - Because that's a big one. - That is a big one. - There's so many good dance breaks. - 'Cause you know what jumps to mind for me? - What? - This isn't probably it, but I think one that, because it was so dance contest, me, the little gay boy and my girlfriend's culture, Janet Jackson, "All For You."

Jenna Jackson, All For You, like, that was a song that probably was a hit primarily because of groups of little girls and gay boys doing dance contests. From when she's in the train station. Now that's what I call music, I don't know, let's call it four. Like, just track one, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That was...

A deep, deep one. I'm going to agree with my sister. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's a huge one. Yeah. I'm still thinking. I'm still thinking. It's a commitment when she says it. It is a big commitment. I know. That's a huge... I mean, I would say like Single Ladies by Beyonce. Well, yes. Like, I just think that that was...

big for me. Did you learn it immediately? I don't think I did. Yeah. But I just remember watching it a lot. You just appreciated it. Yeah. Okay, but I'm saying like for tour, like I was this close to trying to learn the dance break for two hands. Okay. Because I was trying to do like the... Uh-huh. Like... Okay. But like you're literally like upside down like across the windshield. Wait, do it again. I don't know what move you're referring to. I'm 12. Shit. Wow. She didn't even know what you were referring to. I didn't do that. She's like, I never fucking... Because you went like this.

Well, she, I'm like, which is kind of cool. When you sing the word to. I'm trying to remember the choreo. I want you to. Wow. I can't believe we're watching this. Oh my God. This is cool. This one? Yes. Wait, do that. Do that. Do it again. Yes. Yes.

Because that's giving car. That's a dancer's hand. It's like the hip wave. And then you like drive the car. Yes. I'm obsessed because it's like it's giving car. It is. It's like giving like hip wave and then car. So what would happen if, would you be proud of us if let's say we did the two hands choreo? Yes. Yes. We're going to do it. We might do it. You should. You should.

I'm going to tell you my idea for later. Okay. Okay. Maybe you can be involved. Okay. You'll be on tour. You'll be on tour. Okay. When is tour until for now? They laugh. The team laughs because it's going for four years. October. Because you want to have a Halloween. Of course I want to have a Halloween. So November because we just announced new dates. Wow.

And that's why I said for now. Because I knew y'all had a trick up your sleeve. We knew the team was going to push it. Yeah. So now it's November and I don't get a Halloween. No. Thanks. You'll get a Christmas. I'll get a Christmas. You need to spend Halloween in New York and then you're going to sell your house and be like, I never want to live here. Why? No, you're going to be so obsessed. By the time you get to like actually, well, you spend time in New York. You've been home and you get to like acclimate and make it your home.

I actually haven't moved in yet. Oh, okay. I put the offer in like two days ago. Congrats. Oh, nice. So it's going to happen. I hope so. Yeah. Sometimes they pull out. No, yeah. It's a whole thing. New York real estate is gnarly and nasty. But when you finally finish tour in November, like then you're going to move. And I think that November, December, actually September, October, November, December, that quadrant. The fall months. Thank you.

is the best time to be in New York. Yes. I think so too. I think I'm going to really enjoy it there in the next year in New York. And you do have a place here too? Yes. You got it. Yeah. You got it. I got it. Favorite dance break of all time. Wait, didn't I say single ladies? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Didn't I answer this question that's going to cause me to get dragged online because now I didn't say these other girls? Yeah, exactly. Hello. Can't win in this town. I didn't realize that that's what we were putting you through. Mm.

Yeah.

That was a very Bowen response. Cancer vibes. Cancer vibes. Well, I think... Your hand in this award right now? I know. Can you believe? Well, okay. So we're going to do... This episode's winning a Webby. This episode is winning a Webby, by the way. We're going to do the choreo of Two Hands. Where? We'll tell you later. Okay. You know, I'm not to brag. There might be eyes on it. There's going to be eyes on it. We're just saying we hope we don't

disappoint you. Well, do you need some help like how to learn it? Yeah. Are you going to teach us? Yeah, I can help. If you're going to, if it's like... We should learn from you. Excuse you. This is so ambiguous. We'll be in touch. We just told Tate the idea and we had to skip past it and cut that out. And she approves. I approve. Yeah, it's going to be good. It's exciting.

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Okay, well, this has been, you know, very sweet time, but now we have to get a little nasty and dirty with I Don't Think So Honey. That's right. This is I Don't Think So Honey. This is our segment where we each take one minute to rail against something in culture. Matt, do you have something? You know what? I do have something. It's time. Okay. Okay.

- Is it in culture or it can just be in life? - It can be anything. Mine is very much in life. I'm not doing, I don't think so honey. - Okay, mine's getting in life too. - In life, okay. - Well, we'll all do life. I don't think so honeys. This is Matt Rogers, I Don't Think So Honey's time starts now. - I Don't Think So Honey man bun. I still see some of you doing it. And can I say like, it was never it. It was never it. The tiny little man bun was never it. And I'm looking around, I don't think I see anyone here that's giving a man bun.

I see potential on a couple people. I see potential hair length where you could give that. As someone who is starting to wade into the might grow my hair out community, I have a buzz right now for people that are only listening. I may grow my hair out. What? I'm committed to no little bun because I'm going to show you a video of me with long hair and it actually looks good. I put a wig on.

Okay, if you're going to grow your hair out, just give it a style. Give it something. The tossing it up into a messy bun, you are not iconic girls from my high school. You're not. The only way you can toss your hair up into a messy bun and come out and have it be slay is if you are an iconic girl from my high school. You know what I'm saying? These girls that came in the sweatpants with the top rolled down on the slides and the messy bun and lacrosse sweatshirt.

Only you with the messy bun. Everyone else, especially you gentlemen, it's got to stop. That's one minute. Okay. Okay. That's where I'm at on that. And you know what has really pushed me over the edge? It's, you know, the old photos of Justin Baldoni? I don't. Like when he had the hair up in the bun. When he was in Jane the Virgin. When he was in Jane the Virgin, yes. What do you even know about pop culture? When he would serve a bun, I was like, see, I can't believe we ever did this. Right.

And you are thinking about growing your hair out? I'm thinking about growing my hair out. I'm just saying, if it ever gets to the point where you see me and I have long hair and I'm like, you know what, guys? Hold on a second. And you see me toss it up into a bun, please stop me and remind me of this. Play the clip. I like your hair right now. I think it's cute. You like it buzzed? Yeah, it looks really good. Thank you. It compliments your skull shape.

It does. Do I have a good skull shape? You have a really good skull shape. Great bone structure. That's what you wish for. That's hard because a lot of people don't have a naturally good skull shape. Could you buzz? No. I don't think so. Well, you have such great hair. Why would you? I don't think I could buzz. No. I feel like I have a strange head shape. Did you get tummy time as a child? Yeah, you must have gotten it. What's tummy time? Tummy time is when your baby, they flip you over on your tummy so that you're not lying on the back of your head the whole time. Oh, I didn't get any of that. Oh, I don't know. I feel like they must have...

Mine was a little flat. You're giving me so much time. I have a little bit of a flat head too. Want to tell you about that? You know what's a tip for babies is my mom says that your hips form before you're two years old. So if you stretch your baby's hips before you're two years old, she did this to me. She would stretch my splits before I was two. Wow. And so my hips are naturally open because she formed my hips that way. Whoa. So that's a trick.

If you want to have a dancer. So you got it from your mama. I did get it from my mama. You got it from your mama. Put me on the clock. I've got something. Okay, wow, wait, hold on. He's about to go against his mother. I know this. He's about to drag.

Okay, wait, hold on. Okay, this is Bowen. Why don't I have my thing? This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey. His time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey, not my mom, but just the hip architecture in human beings in general. Did you know we have our hip flexors go from back to front and we have side to side, like going across the pelvis. It's...

It's crazy. I think it's where I'm going to go. It's how I'm going to die. Something's going to happen to me in the hips. Like, I'm trying to use them in dance settings and maybe a sexual setting. And it's just not... 30 seconds. I'm not executing the way I want to execute on the hips. Your hips do lie.

I've been doing the same split stretch routine for the past two years. I'm no closer to getting into the splits. Yeah. My mom should have done this, what your mom did. 15 seconds. What Tatiana's mom did. Meng flopped. Meng flopped. And I can't believe I... Listen, I...

It's like the one childhood school trauma that stays with me. Is your hips? All these girls and boys were doing the splits in front of me. And I was like, I want to do that. And I still, after a lifetime of stretching, can't. That's one minute. Can't do the splits. That's really... I can't do it either. Well, I guess you can't answer how you got to do it because your mom kind of did the work for you. Uh-huh. Well, but then I...

You just stretch. I did rhythmic gymnastics when I was younger, too. I was going to say. So they would take your, like, first leg on a chair, your back leg on a chair, and they'd sit on your knees. No, that's crazy. And you'd just be sobbing for, like...

Just like, why is this happening? And they're like, so you can one day become the queen of the dance break. Literally. Yeah. Like actually, this is for your own good, Tate McCray. Yeah. Maybe that hole of pain is from that. It's from that. It's from the tears. From Miss Thing sitting on you. So you were that girl who could just whip out a cartwheel. Yeah. Oh, 100%. I was so jealous of you growing up. I was that bitch. Yeah, you were that bitch. You were like, Tate's flipping in the back. Yeah. You were always upside down. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, for Greedy, you literally shot your leg up like a full 180, like straight line up and down. And I was like, how do you do this? Right. It's that. After you slay so hard, do you just laugh because you're like, did it again? Is that a weird question? I wish it was that easy. Yeah.

Why'd you have the guitar on? I always have the guitar on. All I'm saying is if I was you and I just tore it up. Could you imagine me just like... Yes! That's what we're saying. If I was you and I just came out and was like, two hands away and just like eight, I would be like, whatever. I'm like, I'm not a bitch.

Maybe that's what I should start doing. You have a very high degree of that girl ability. Thank you. That's a word I made up. A little giggle at the end. That girl-able. All your music videos are very that girl-able. Thank you. All the songs have a high degree of that girl ability. I think you should consider the long black middle part like you have in Sports Car. Really? That looked incredible. Really? Yes! I think it made my face look a little long.

- I wasn't thinking that. - No one was thinking that. - That's the voice in your head, Tate. - That's the voice in my head. I felt like I needed like a layer or something. We didn't have enough time to cut a layer though. - Really? Oh, it looked perfect. 'Cause that was you next to the horse. - Yep. - That horse looks scary. - He was super nice actually. He was really cute and sweet. - You're a horse girl. - I'm allergic to horses, but I do love them. - I love that interaction. You're a horse girl. I'm allergic to horses. - But I do love them.

I just can't help but feel like...

I always, when I was little, my sister did gymnastics. And so all of her friends did gymnastics. And they were flipping, turning, screaming to the skies. I was just like, why can't I move? It's because my mom didn't sit on my hips. Yeah. I don't think that's what you did. So you did rhythmic gymnastics, not like competitive gymnastics. With a ribbon. I had a ball routine. Yes. Where you like put the ball in between your back and you have to like

He's like literally like do a somersault with it. Yeah. Do you ever think about like who thought of that?

Who thought to do that? I have no idea. And I also don't understand the reason for it. Like, I don't understand why I trained that hard to like fit a ball between my back. It's crazy. Can we for a second think about every gymnastics event? It's all insane. Uneven bars. It's like, what? It's like someone one day was like, you know what it's going to be? Girls are going to run as fast as they can towards a brick. Yeah.

They're going to fly off the brick hands first, flip in the air and land on their feet. And if they don't, it's flop. It is. But it's such an interesting thing because it's the same with dance. Like I did a music video yesterday. I'm like, I am literally dying for dance right now. And then dance. Category is dance or die. I'm just like...

exhausted, bruised, like literally killing myself and just for a dance break. - Yeah. - Like that is such a weird concept. - One day shoot? - Yep. - Well, that's- - Oof. - You got to knock it. - Yeah, I have bruises everywhere. - Fuck. - Yeah. - I can't believe you came here. - Yeah. - What you didn't see is she had to drag herself to the seat. - I did. - And we didn't help. We sat here, we were like- - Yeah, it was cold.

Awful as hell. Okay, it is your opportunity and time to do an I Don't Think So Honey. Okay, okay. And I can tell that you're going to tear. Okay. Yeah. This is Tate McRae's I Don't Think So Honey. Her time starts now. Okay, so I'm only doing this because my mom just came into town and it's just a frustration I've had

with car play in my, in my car. So whenever my parents, so it's a little finicky, like the USB and the Bluetooth switches on and off a little bit, but then I get to a point where it's pretty consistent and I walk in, it clicks, whatever. My parents come into town and every single phone hooks up all of a sudden. And they're like, I'm like, guys, turn off your Bluetooth. And they have no idea how to turn off the,

30 seconds. So it's just like swipes. I'm like, mom, dad, I like grab their phones. And like, it is the most frustrating. Speak on it. And I'm just like, why does the, why does the car have to click to their phones? They don't live here. This isn't their car. Why is it connecting to this? 15. And it's just really hard because I feel like I lose ownership of my car when they come into town because I can't listen to my music. I can't, my navigation is off and it is just really frustrating. Yeah.

And that's what I'm in it. Say, I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey. There we go. Now it's officially etched in time. Now it's etched in time. CarPlay should know that it's a dad phone or a mom phone. It also should just be better. I don't understand why it's not better. No, it's going to kill us. CarPlay is going to kill us because when it starts to act up and you're driving and you kind of can't stop yourself from being like, ugh. My turn isn't, yeah. Well, for me, it's like, I need music to be playing in the car. I'm not, not,

And maybe a podcast, but usually no, usually music. And when, and to say nothing of directions, which is also a thing with car play. It's like, you cut off my music and directions. Why am I in the car to begin with? Yeah, exactly. And now I'm on the road, like, hello, doing surgery, like on my car. And I'm like, this was supposed to be easier. Yeah, it's not. Like everything they say that makes things easier. That's why I don't trust the self-driving cars. I'm like, thanks, but no thanks. No, that's scary.

That is really scary. It's crazy. Every time they have made an advancement in cars, I'm like, I feel as though we can go back to basics. I think so too. Are you doing Google Maps or Apple Maps? Apple Maps. Don't say that. Why are you guys Google Maps? No, no, we're not. You're so sweet about that.

Why? Are you guys Google Maps? No, we are. I'm Google Maps, but I just feel like Apple Maps is so tough. Actually, it depends. Now it depends. I think the complete opposite. Really? Sometimes Apple Maps is really, really good. I think it's just a cleaner layout. Okay. I think that when you, it's just like less like clunky. All right. That's fair. Like you can zoom in on Google Maps. Apple Maps is just automatic. Yeah. You know what came and went? Waze. Oh, people, it's still going strong. I think people still use it. Waze is still out there.

We just lost a huge waste of sponsorship. Big chunk of the podcast. Turned it off. And we were struggling, so they're going to ask for our Webby back. We needed that. Here, take our Webby back. Okay. Do you want it? Sure. Tate McRae accepts this Webby on our behalf. Thank you. You know, if you flick it, it springs. Look, do that. Doesn't it feel kind of good to put your hand in? Like this? Is that what you're trying to do? He's like, isn't it?

It's kind of good to put your hand in it to justify that he was doing it. It does feel good. It feels great. It's a bracelet, but not really. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. This has been such a nice time getting to know you. You're fucking cool as hell. Thank you. You're so talented. Thanks, guys. And we're going to come see you. Please. Can we? With love. We want to come see you at MSG.

Please come. Yes. That would be so fun. And maybe even by then we'll have the two hands choreo down. I think we will. I'm going to do that. You'll see us in the crowd, like literally hurting everyone around us.

I think that's going to... We're going to start up the TikTok trend. Okay. We're going to do it. Perfect. Has there not been a TikTok trend started at this point? I think there is for that dance. Probably. Do you dictate what the trend is? I don't think you really can. Yeah. Right. You can do like just post stuff. Yeah. And if it trends, it trends. Because like it wasn't...

wasn't Charlie someone else made the Apple dance yeah okay that was good that's what you want I mean we'll be that girl for you you know yeah that's what you want to have someone else this is a marketing meeting now the team's all here well so close to what is out right now please have some fun for once in your life yeah go listen to Flo Millie

Spit bars. Have a glass of wine, listen to the album, and sit back. Is that your optimal vibe for it? Like, have a glass of wine, listen to it. I think so. And like a chill. Yeah. Don't think too hard. I mean, but think hard. That's the next album. Don't think too hard. Think harder. Think later. Don't think too hard. They're like, we're getting mixed messaging from Tate. Yeah, just completely contradicting myself every album. Okay, we end every episode with a song.

the apples on the chicken. We already messed up. It's this. You started it. N1. That's the best part of the name. I do love the N1. So that's for you to do at home. Bye. Bye. Bye.

And our music is by Henry Kaburski.

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