"RSVP Yes" (w/ Allison Williams)

2025/7/2

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript

A

Allison

主持 STAT 的生物技术播客「The Readout LOUD」，讨论生物技术行业的最新发展和事件。

B

Bowen

M

Matt

无足够信息构建一句话概述

Matt: 我认为《梅根2.0》是一部艺术品，Allison在《逃出绝命镇》中的表演应该获得奥斯卡提名，并且Marnie是电视史上最棒的角色之一。 Bowen: 我认为Allison Williams的酷女孩奖代表着一种象征意义，Marnie比Tony Soprano更胜一筹。 Allison: 我很荣幸能成为你们的文化象征，但我也很困惑，因为我觉得自己并不酷。在《衰姐们》之后，我接演了《彼得·潘》的直播，因为我想挑战自己，并且扮演彼得·潘需要完全投入，不能有任何嘲讽。乔丹·皮尔认为我有一种让人信任的气质，这很适合《逃出绝命镇》，并且在《逃出绝命镇》之后，人们不再信任我，这让我可以尝试更多惊悚角色。

Deep Dive

This is an iHeart Podcast. Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason Pride is celebrated this time of year. It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done. Legend says Marsha P. Johnson threw the very first brick. Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one, boom. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth.

and the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to Afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Show me how good it can get today, God, and show the rest of the world what we already know. It can't get no better than being hella black, hella queer, and hella Christian. My name is Joseph Rees. I am the creator and host of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian, a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast from iHeartMedia to hella black, hella queer, hella Christian on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, when's the last time you've listened to Hot 99.5? Because we have all of the hit music, but also a lot more. Like Intern John and your morning show. I'm Elizabethany. I want to make sure you always know about the latest events, deals, and things we're making fun of around the DMV. I love this station. You talk about real stuff. And Nick Gomez gets you access to all of your favorite artists. And we're all giving a bunch of things away every day. In fact, you might even be able to win a million dollars. Oh, snap. I won a kill. Awesome. We're at

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Ding dong, Lost Cultures is happening. And here's the thing. Happened. Happened. We're keeping it. Can I say that? Lost Cultures. I think the reason why I did that is because the thing that you don't know is that Lost Cultures has been happening. It's been happening. Oh, that's beautiful. What a great spin. Thank you. I'm getting good at the spin the more I'm in the biz. No, I literally hit the ground. Yeah, yeah. Boots on the ground, got to the studio. There's something about our guests that

Activate! Yes, 100%. A gay man in his 30s. Oh, baby. Let me tell you something. The way I was up at 7... I actually woke up and kind of shot out of the bed. You woke up at 7 too? How's your jet lag, by the way?

I think I'm okay. You need, not sponsored, time shifter. You need time shifter. What is that? Is that the app? That's my jet lag app. Okay, you know what I did do at NyQuil? And that actually- Roll the dice. It was a roll of the dice, but I mean, I slept for at least a hard six and a half. Great. But that doesn't even compare to what happened to our guests. Right. Oh. I think she said three hours, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, three and a half hours. Because the world premiere of Megan 2.0 was last night. Because the world premiere of Megan 2.0 was last night.

I was privileged enough to watch it from the comfort of my own home. Oh my God. With Sudi Green. Oh, you did? And we were both like, this is... It's art. This is fucking artful. There's a moment. There's so many things that I want to spoil that I can't. But there's just a moment. I'll say there is a moment that pays tribute to an important musical artist.

And it's sublime. You're going to have to tell me after. I'll tell you after. No, I actually can't tell you. All of you, this is a call to action. Everyone listening needs to go to the theater now. Our guest goes to me. Do you think people are going to go? I was like, girl, of course they're going to go. Here's the thing. If I...

went to a horror movie in the theater, which I did for the first one, Formative Memory, then you know people are going. Like if me and Matt Rogers went to a horror film. Went to a horror film. And I'm working myself up from this one. And this is the thing about our guest. No, no, no. Bonafide Scream Queen. Bonafide Scream Queen. I said it. Deserved Oscar nomination for Get Out.

Well, I said that movie, like, obviously works for many reasons, but one of the key components is the fact that our guest's performance is so good. Perfect casting, perfect, perfect. Like, and just, like, the niche that we found here, and obviously we haven't even said the word Marnie yet. The best character...

In television history. One of the great characters in TV. Fuck you, Tony Soprano. Fuck you, Tony Soprano. You could never have sung stronger like that. You could never have left the checkpoints go by like that, like Marnie. You could never have had a Panic in Central Park episode. You were too self-conscious to ever be Marnie. You know what line where you get kind of like pings, pings in my head? What? I'm Megita. Megita Perez. Megita Perez is here. Please welcome to the airs, Megita Perez.

I'm laughing so hard my c-section is starting. No! Please don't rip open. In a good way, it's old now. Hi! This is the thing, like immediate warm vibes towards you and that makes me so happy. I literally feel like I've known you for years. I've also been listening for years. You are my culture. It's surreal to be here. I almost forgot that I was going to participate because I'm just watching what I watch all the time. You're the name of our award. You're the Alison Williams Cool Girl Award. How do you feel about this? I have a question for you about this. Okay, cool.

It's obviously an honor and it's also... Confusing. Yeah, because I'm like, well, the whole bit is that I'm not cool. No, no. And so it's like a very, it's a real bullseye of a, and Angie Kay as a recipient is like an honor beyond belief as a Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, like fanatic. I just can't. These guys know, I already told them I met Meredith last night. Oh!

you guys. And you had the same reaction as Bowen Yang at the Fire Island premiere. I tried to stop talking to her because I was like, I can't, my system isn't ready for, no one prepared me. No one was like, just so you know, you may also have to have a reserve amount of energy to interact with Meredith Marks at this event. No one can prepare you for meeting Meredith Marks. It's actually rule of culture number three. No one can prepare you for meeting Meredith Marks. It's just going to happen one day. That's true. Even if I had had all the time in the world. Right. No, this is the thing about the Alison Williams Cool Girl Award.

It's about iconography. It's about being a symbol. And can I tell you, that's what I think it means. And that's why Angie Kay won it is because she, I think, came into the lexicon as one thing and then superseded that. And I feel like when we met you as Marnie, like we all kind of like had a reaction, right? Because Marnie-

- Bo and Yang. - I can't believe! - You wanna know why I remembered that sign? Bo and Yang had a sign that said, "Don't be a Marnie." - Which my roommate, Mike Spence wrote. - It was really his thing. - Yes. - But you wanna know why I remembered it? 'Cause I always forgot. I always forgot not to be a Marnie. - But the thing is-- - Listen, we can't avoid it sometimes. - Do you feel this way though? I'm sure you feel this way. - I'm sure you feel this way. - There is something about Marnie that is like,

All of us have this urgency, this danger around not being Marnie because we all are. That is the thing. I made these mugs for the last season of the show as gifts and I made one for each character. And like it was, I'm a Jessa, it's fabulous. And it's...

I'm a show, so it's OMG. And the one for Marnie was, I'm a Marnie, it's a bummer. Yeah. And everyone who got them, I gave them to the people who felt like Marnies and they were like, yeah, thank you. Wow. So that was the vibe. I think it was too close. Gen Z is like, she's self-care. She's got boundaries.

They have like new vocabulary for this. And millennial, we were just like, we can't, it's too close. Like looking into the sun, I can't look at this person right now. You want to know what? It's too much. Another thing was like, I think it took me about a season and a half to realize that Marnie was like, I think I was like,

Because you join the show and it's like, there's Hannah being Hannah and she's a mess and she's the protagonist. And you start the show with a job, with a boyfriend, and then things crumble away. So it took me a second, as did everyone else, to realize, oh, Marnie is the mess character. And I had already latched onto her a different way. So we were like, it's sort of a Carrie Bradshaw-esque thing of like, don't do that. We're not that. What do you mean? You're clean. Why am I doing that? You have clean lines. You know how to...

do your hair. And then all of a sudden she's singing stronger and it's like, oh. At someone else's office party. Uninvited. But I couldn't laugh at it at the time because it was too close. Now every single Marnie line is a laugh line. That makes me so happy. It's honestly like what a pleasure. It was so fun to do the first time around and now I get to talk about it as if I'm like actively promoting it. As if it's airing currently. Right. It's so fun. What do you make of this like resurgence of girls? It's the best. I think it's a

little bit of what I was describing to you like there's enough distance first of all our version of New York City is like all we were worried about was like rent roommates boyfriends there wasn't like existential I mean there were people having existential fears and that was one of the criticisms of the show we did not display that experience of living in New York City at the time right Lena wrote what she knew which was like those that level of problem there is now we live in such a hell that there is such an aspirational quality to being like the biggest thing I'm worried about is rent and

boyfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need another gallery job. Exactly. And am I into art history and Taylor Loft and like all of those questions? Yeah. And not like, can I stay in this country? Right. You know, those kinds of questions are or like, do people recognize that I'm a human? Yeah. But that's the world writ small, which is what we love about New York. Exactly. Exactly. But I really do think it feels now in a way that it felt so real and like

that people found it hard to watch. I think it now feels like almost aspirationally like low stakes. 100%. Just human level conflict. Yeah. I remember at the time feeling like, wow, the show really sees the reality. And now I'm like, wow.

Like, whoa, the show really saw the reality of like having that sort of like, I guess, like Obama core Obama era. Exactly. Like thinking you are one thing, but so being another, you cannot see yourself because that's really what the four of them were. They were just examples of not being able to see yourself in that environment and us being like, I guess,

fresh NYU grads like living in those areas. Exactly. Just the, and I don't mean sweaty as in like, I mean literally sweaty vibes of the show. Like not knowing how to take care of your like body. A hundred percent. Like or anything, like not knowing to drink water and just like a new person. Yes. Yeah. I feel like it was, it was so fun to make and it was really intense obviously for a lot of reasons. It was a loud show. Like every episode that aired, this is, I'm going to spoil one of my, I don't think so, honey.

I have seven here's one of the seven is the lack of monoculture I miss it but here's one of the things that was hard about it to ruin it and to discount my own I don't think so honey is that it was if you were part of the thing that the whole media sphere was focused on and that doesn't make for a monoculture but it felt like it for sure of course um

is a really intense experience. You have like every journalist at Jezebel and Gawker, like every Monday morning writing an article about the episode that you had. And it was more fun and cool to be mean about it. So that a Monday was like a very intense day of the week when Girls was airing for all of us. Not a similar experience. Only in the...

that dunking on a show that you're on is like immediately after it airs is part of the SNL experience. Yes, always. It's just more fun to be like mean and rude. Yes. And like where the good old days and somehow like the good old days are always not currently happening. And it's a perfect show and you're so fucking good on it. But oh, oh my God. Stop that. Wait, what are you talking about? You're talking about me? Yeah. No, no, no. Um,

I wasn't even registering that, but I, it's just this thing where it's like, everyone thinks of the highlight reel. Everyone's thinking of the old HBO days of your like compilations or whatever, you know, like the way that we were consuming things was more monocultural. And now it's like, well,

whatever, I'm not saying anything new, but, I mean, it must feel nice to have the patina on girls be like, wow, what a gorgeous, sculptural thing. Yes, and also, it's already like, it is there, and it can't, we can't do anything to it anymore. And so it's like, for all its flaws and everything that makes it iconic, like, it is just what it is. And the fact that people, like my cousin, who's exactly 10 years younger than me, it hit her at 23. She finally, I was like, fuck.

fine. You can watch it and I'll be able to make eye contact with you. And she was like, this shows everything to me. I was like, that's fascinating. Like we have so little in common in terms of like what that, what your 23 looks like physically and superficially with Marnie's, but the themes are the same of like, who am I? What do I want? All of those like kind of existentially things. And Lena just, I don't know how was able to write it while she was living it, which is that.

That's what I can't. True vision. Didn't need perspective. True vision and perspective. Didn't need distance. Yes. Right. Like, in it, but still being able to see it is crazy. With a reading glasses, like, was able to write this thing rather than, you know, like. Were you guys improvising on set? Is she? We did. What kind of creator? Because Judd Apatow was the EP. We had, we did use that sometimes, especially in ensemble scenes, we would use improv to, like, literally.

loosen up the scene maybe we'd get there and we'd read through it once verbatim like sitting down and then we'd get up and people would just throw stuff in and then we were constantly getting pitched alts during the shoot so people they're at the punchline you just rotate through proper nouns or whatever and so that was really fun and also my as we already discussed improv a little bit my only skill so I was like this is thrilling I can use the only literal training I have is improv comedy and it comes up in my first job like what could be dreamier than that was I am never coming back to Bushwick in the script

- Great question. I think so. - I'm literally looking at you and I'm remembering like so many, like when he slapped you in that, in the crack-cident, which was another, again, like just a number of iconic episodes. He slaps you, you walk away.

I am never coming back to Bushwick. Like, that was the problem. I want to look. I have all the drafts of the scripts in my inbox somewhere. I need to look and see if it was in there. Yeah. My query is Beach House episode. Season four. Shoshira mean drunk, Marnie. It's crazy. I think that feels improvised. Yes! That feels improvised. We do it all the time. We quote it all the time. We just say, it's crazy. The way Marnie Michaels, Alison Williams says it.

I mean, it's crazy. It's our hyphenated, forenamed self. Yes, yes, yes. Also, like, that's not a bottle episode, obviously, because it's everyone, but that show perfected the bottle episode. And you can't talk about bottle episodes on television in general without talking about The Panic in Central Park, which was such not only... Yeah, honestly, round of applause. Thank you. Thank you so much. I saw you speak about this the other day. It is...

so much more impactful later when you watch it, having had that person where you're walking along the street and you see them and your heart falls through the floor. I've had this experience and I watched the episode again. It had me on my back. Like, it was like...

Can you just talk about that episode? Like, specifically, like, what it felt to get it? Did you know it was coming? Lena had mentioned it, but sometimes in the process of writing a season of a show, like, the plans changed. I was a SoulCycle, Marnie was a SoulCycle instructor for a season, and that ended up getting cut out of the show. Oh, wow. So, like, I just learned to...

Listen, I was devastated. I trained. I went to double classes at SoulCycle. Double classes. SoulCycle, New York City. It was a thing. I can't remember why. It was the season that Chris Abbott left. And so we were scrambling to come up with what Marty's storyline was because he left really, really, really close to starting to shoot. I don't love you. And I never loved you. Well, listen.

The thing that is so... What I was just going to say about that episode is that I hadn't seen Chris...

since he left the show. Wow. So there was a kind of meta element to shooting Panic Central Park because we didn't have, I didn't like reach out to him to be like, what happened? Because we were all like scrambling and then going into production. So there just wasn't a closure conversation. He hadn't like bought pizza ingredients, but it was still like very abrupt. And so when we were back together making this episode together, there was just this energy of like, yeah,

what happened? And also like, I felt, we all felt like kind of like he left, like we felt rejected. I mean, it wasn't that serious and heavy, but it was very easy to be like, to have that energy in there, even though that wasn't something I had experienced yet, other than like on a college campus where of course you're going to run into your exes, you're expecting it. But on like the street corner with his like new friends and new accent, like new facial hair and new, just new energy and smell and everything. Like,

Like that was something that was aided hugely by the fact that we hadn't seen him. I mean, we'd all been in touch with him in some superficial way, but we hadn't physically had him in our presence in the girls like world since the end of season two, I guess. Wow. So then you guys do this episode together. Yeah. Well, what I was saying is that like, so the plans change for season sometimes. Yeah. So I didn't,

I tried not to get too excited about the idea of it, but when Lena mentioned that, I was such a fan of One Man's Trash and all of our... Yes, the best. And the North Fork episode as well. The idea of doing a bottle episode was so exciting, but I was like, don't get too excited. Things happen, stories, whatever. And then it got there and she sent it to me and I was like, this is...

It really was. And Richard was directing and I love Richard and I was so excited to do it and I felt like we made a short film in New York and over the course of like a seven day shoot I think. I think seven days of shooting in New York. But a thousand percent it's a short film. It's just it's completely artful and whatever it's

God, I love that episode. I think my favorite. It's amazing as its own piece and also as an installment. It's so important. And every character kind of had that, obviously. Shoshana in Japan, Jessa with that gorgeous episode with her father. I'm the child. You know what I mean? That and also the episode with Matthew Rhys. Oh my gosh. That ends with Rihanna's desperado. No, that's probably the single episode I've seen the most because...

It's just this, like, gorgeous little play. And they're so brilliant together. And I will say, I miss Lena on screen. I know. I miss Lena on screen so much. My favorite performance of hers from the entire show is in the diner with Adam. Oh, God. It, like, makes me want to cry thinking about that scene between the two of them when they're making plans and they both know it's not going to happen. She is so, so good. And also when she's in, I think it was the end of the...

First season, when she goes to Adam and she goes, you are very charming. And I can't be around you anymore. It feels shitty for me. They're on the street, I think. Yeah, and she knocks on the door. And then he ends up pulling her in and she's like, God, you can't be doing this. This is not what I want. I need to end this. But that push-pull, that pure attraction to this...

Odd guy to this weird thing. The weirdest fuckboy in Brooklyn. Casting, I have to say, like casting was one of the superpowers on that show. Andrew Rannells, baby. So, I mean. I mean. Who improvised a line, your dad is gay, which became. That was the moment. Which became like a huge storyline. Of course. In the whole show. It was an improvised line. All adventurous women do. All adventurous women do. That has to be top five. The episode name, your encyclopedic knowledge of the names of these episodes is so impressive. This is our favorite show. Like, this is our favorite show.

It's so odd. It probably comes up the most on this podcast of any other television series. It is. I mean, listen, I love listening to your show and it gives me, I get nervous every time, but you do bring it up a lot. It's a jump scare for you. It is. Because you probably have that experience too. You guys, both people mentioned last college, people mentioned like all of the stuff you guys do. It's a different experience. When people mention it, when you're alone in your house, like folding laundry and you're like, I've been invoked. Do I pause it? Am I scared? We've become a reference, which is odd.

When you become like something that someone can point to and it feels like something. Well, that's when you've made it. Yeah. I mean, it has to be close to the bottom, the top of the rules of culture, I would say. Oh, sure. When you're a reference. That's when you've made it. What rule of culture? What number is that, Allison? I don't get to, we don't get to. Yes, you do. You just pick a number. It feels like one.

- He feels like one. - Yeah, I was gonna say it felt like one. - He feels like one 'cause it's self-referential. - Okay, it's real culture number one. When you become a reference, that's when you know you made it. - That's true. - Thank you. You know, we're not big into chasing trends, but we're all about stuff that fits right, feels good, and actually lasts. That's why we keep coming back to quints. Their lightweight layers and high quality staples have become our everyday essentials. - And it's hard to find a good basic. Not on the dating scene, but you know, I mean for clothes.

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Show me how good it can get today, God, and show the rest of the world what we already know. It can't get no better than being hella black, hella queer, and hella Christian. My name is Joseph Rees. I am the creator and host of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian.

a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast that explores society, culture, and the intersections of faith and identity. Listen to hella black, hella queer, hella Christian to hear conversations about what it means to sound the way you look. I think what I've had to make peace with is that every iteration of my voice is given to me by God, and I love it. Books that validated our identities.

The library now for me is a safe space as someone who is writing books that they're trying to take off of shelves. And how we as Black queer folks relate to our Christianity. Listen to Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason Pride is celebrated this time of year. It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done. But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mafia? The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ plus rights. Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one, boom, boom, boom. Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights,

through the very first brick. She was really like scrubbed out of that history. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to Afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind.

to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, "Teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns." And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? "Capaquiddick" is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪

Also, can we say in terms of casting Rita Wilson as your mother? I love her so much. I'm about to see her in like two days. I'm crazy about her. Yes. And the fact that she's in Lena's show with Andrew. I'm so excited. And Meg, who I'm obsessed with. She's basically playing. Well, I don't know. I haven't seen the show, but based on the trailer, this is like sort of Lena's.

Arc into London because she just like made an exodus. She was like I need any new stomping ground. Yeah Yeah, I'm excited I just really want to see not that and that has to be another thing is it's like you set a certain bar for something You do and like that's another thing with you. It's like there's the follow-up So you have girls you have Marnie it has this cultural impact and then you're a part of not one but two like other like big culture moments like get out and

Like I would imagine you get to be like a little choosy after girls. But like what was getting that? Did you feel that way? It was a combination of things. I was getting sent essentially Marnie in different situations like scripts. And they just weren't as good as girls. I was like all respect to the things you guys are that people were writing and sending like.

I am doing the best. Like Lena is so talented. These writers are so good. Like I'm kind of so spoiled about this type of character in this situation. And then the other things that I was like going for were too different and people couldn't picture me in those roles because we were so aligned with our characters. So then I was like, they were like, do you want to play Peter Pan on live television? I was like, why the fuck not? Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, do I want to fly towards Christopher Walken with a sword? Yes, I do. Absolutely. For three hours on live television? Uh-huh. Wow. I do. So I did that.

And then just because I grew up loving Peter Pan, I was like, this will be such a fun, insane challenge. And it was like one of the most gratifying experiences of my life. Full earnest. You have to. You can't wink at your Peter Pan. You're committing to being like a kind of genderless, but boy, pixie haired, like flying magic person. And you're like, yeah, I can't like be, I,

about this. No, never. I am full commitment and that in and of itself was like its own kind of lesson that kind of prepared me for the genre stuff that was to come because you have to fully just commit to it and forget what genre you're in. Yeah. But, so after Peter Pan, I kind of helped dislodge the Marnie thing but it was still very, very sticky. Meanwhile, Jordan Peele had been watching Girls, saw me do Peter Pan, was like,

She'll do anything. Yeah, I'm into it. Reached out and was like, you have this vibe. People just trust you. You have this brown hair and these blue eyes and people just believe that you're who you are and they will take 15 seconds with you on screen and just go with you for the whole movie. Yeah, when you say, babe, it's going to be fine, they trust you. I need you. And I was like, this is exactly, we have exactly aligned interests in this situation. And I read the script and I remember calling my publicist at the time and being like, this is an Oscar movie. And she's like, this poor girl is so spoiled from Girls.

She thinks everything she does is going to be an awards contender. And I was like, no, seriously, it is. And she was like, it's a race. It's a race horror movie. Like, come on. First time director, $4.5 million budget. Like, you're very spoiled. But we'll see. We'll see how it goes. And she was very supportive, obviously. But, you know, trying to prepare me for like actual movie making because it was my first movie. And so then we go and make the movie. We...

I worked heavily with Jordan to like make Rose as evil as we possibly could, including coming up with the idea of like kind of splitting her in half and having her playing a character for most of the movie. Yeah. And it did this incredible thing, which is that it used the stickiness of Marnie that I was having so much trouble like shaking against the audience. It was like, okay, if you're going to think of me in this way anyway, then,

Then I'm going to use that to like propel the story of this movie and help the twist of it. And then from that moment, the moment people saw me on screen, they didn't trust me anymore. Right. They were immediately like, I don't know where I don't feel comfortable like looking at your face anymore. I feel uncertain about if I can trust you. Like the association switched. And then I got to play with that, invoking that in people. And so since then, pushing me into thriller and the kind of hyphen-y genres has been like the greatest gift because I've just been able to like

let go of so many things and also just play with expectations and yeah all of it but your willingness to like subvert those expectations into like fruit loops looking at the keys like you know facial like it's that's that is to bring it back that's allison williams school girl award you know what i mean that is that's what we're talking about by the end of the episode maybe fully understand the category i've heard you talk about it every time i just i'm still like

piecing it together. Sometimes we've talked about it. How has it been? I feel like it's only ever this activating thing where we're like, oh my god, yes, there literally is no one cooler. We're obsessed with you. I guess I really can't accept that. Honestly, it's like I can't accept it. I'm RSVPing me to this compliment. You don't have to accept it. Every talk show appearance I've seen, it's...

It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, we love you. In the words of Marnie Michaels. It's just like, there is, this is what Jordan's talking about. It's like, something about this girl. You see her, you trust her. She takes you with her. And that is kind of like the comfort. It's like anytime you've like,

these like weird thorny questions about being on girls, about all these other things. It's like, I'm like, oh, this girl knows, like this girl gets something. Not a lot of actors would sort of lament like the thing that they've been like sort of pigeonholed into immediately after this role that they're so associated and aligned with to then be like, I'm going to fuck with this to

to my advantage and let it jettison me into something different. Well, it was so it was such a happy coincidence because it just so happened that I was looking for something exactly like that. And Jordan needed it was like we just needed each other. And I was also like, yeah, it was. And I just felt like I want I also don't want I wanted to make her so evilly that I don't want there to be any people still did this, by the way, but I didn't want there to be any excuse for her.

Because I just know people love to excuse the behavior of a white girl just like me. And there's that moment where it's like he's deciding whether or not he's going to kill her or not. And you as the audience are like,

should he kill her or not? And you in that moment are making a real case for staying alive. I switched back into the other mode. I mean, it's a great performance. So I went to a screening of it in Sun Valley and all love to Sun Valley. It's gorgeous. But that audience was very different from the other ones I'd watched the movie with. And the reactions in the audience to that sequence in the finale were very different than the ones in every other theater where it

It was, let's just say it was a teaching moment. Yes, of course. People were like learning some stuff about their knee-jerk reaction to the like blue and red flashing lights and a black man over a white woman who's on the ground and all those things. But yeah, that movie was like, the other thing that movie taught me was that it's possible to

I mean, I knew this already from like Rosemary's Baby, but I'm a wimp. I can't see horror movies at all. I never, ever imagined this scenario. I have to watch horror movies on planes, ambient activity, full light, like not great sound. On really low volume. Really low volume. And honestly, the more of them I make, it's kind of exposure therapy because I'm learning about camera angles and sound cues. I'm starting to avoid the jump scares because I just know what they're doing. It'll help, I promise. Because it peels back. It's just helpful. It makes me like more literate in the whatever. So,

I never expected this and I knew it was possible, but merging a serious theme that would typically be dealt with in like a capital D drama, but putting it into like a horror thriller comedy packaging. I was like, this is a drug. Like professionally, this is a drug like experience because I am...

so enjoying the experience of talking about race like on panels and stuff with the Get Out like crew and cast talking about this real shit and then also like sitting through a screening where I could sit outside the theater and based on the laughs I would know where we were in the movie and it was like such an awesome combination and like Megan was able to replicate that experience because it took

AI and kids and put it in this weird packaging. And I was like, this is the same thing. It's this conversation my friends are having like quietly and worried and privately about their own parenting. Like I'm worried about my kid and technology and stuff. And just like,

made it bigger than life and like put it in camp and fun. And then after the fun has worn off, people are like, but really, like, what are we? What are our plans? I was like, again, like I was like brushing back up on exactly what it was about. And I was like, wow, this is very prescient. It's about the this, you know, and how we just allow our children to be taken care of by technology sometimes. Like now when I see a kid on a plane with a tablet, I'm just like,

That kid has autonomy in the way that, not for nothing, but we did when the internet was starting way back when. And how many times did we put ourselves in bad positions? 100%. Yes. Okay, so many things. One, I did not mean to segue us into Megan prematurely unless we were ready to go there. That's what makes you third co-host of Vox. I didn't mean to. I was sitting here and I was like, they think I was like, we got to get on topic, but I don't. I was like, we're happy where we were. RSVPS to the compliment right now. RSVPS.

Send it in. Yes! Thank you. We have a seat for you. Thank you. Okay, well, you have to RSVP yes to my compliment and my fandom. You have to accept it. But we RSVP yes. He's struggling more than you. Actually, title of that, RSVP yes. Okay, great. I love it. Thank you. I'll get there. I'll get there. Well, by the end, I need an RSVP. I need to know. I need a head count.

I need to know how many people are eating duck. Great. But yes, AOL. AOL coming for our lives. The other day, I flew home from London alone with our son and planes are like

iPad time. It is... When you get to the point where your kid has an attention span that is long enough for a flight and an iPad, you're like, great, I'm going to ruin you temporarily. And then I'm going to recover three and a half. I'm like, we can repair this, but I am going to temporarily damage what we have put so much... Like, so much work into. And still it's like top of his lungs, mama, pee! And I'm like, I'm coming. And I'm like, I am a stewardess for him. And it's like a whole thing. Anyway, but it is...

I will do that. And then at home, it is terrifying to watch three and a half year olds interact with AI things because it's immediate. It's like it's like this. They have this intrinsic understanding and facility with using these things. It's really crazy. Like watching him ask chat GPT a question with a little voice undulating thing is like it's like watching Violet or Katie in the first movie. Yeah. It's like watching her interact with Megan.

So I'm constantly doing that. And then I'm like, he named our robot vacuum. I'm like, we got to just, we have to just think about this and really like be cautious because they're powerful. These tools are super powerful. And they get more powerful every day. Every time I see my Chachi Patigo memory updated, I'm like,

What does that mean? What did you learn about me? Oh, no. I didn't know they said that. So we don't, I guess we don't really use it. I don't interact with any of it consciously. Unconsciously, I'm sure. That's not a brag. No, no, it's not. It's not. It's nooch, I would say. It's nooch. It's nooch. I feel like very grateful for the ways ChatGPT helps me, but I'm very aware of what I put into it. And every couple months, I ask what it thinks it knows about me just to see where I am. Where are we with that? Gentlemen.

What does it say? It's so boring. What does it say? I thought it was so great. It dragged you? In a word, beige. Literally the word beige is in the description of me that it has. And here's why.

It only sees what I'm worried about and don't know. It's not like I'm like, hey, chat GPT, let me tell you like everything I know about Mary Shelley's Frankenstein because I've read it 50 times. Here's my academic prowess. Yes, here's my transcript, which I've never seen. Here's like, I'm never saying, here's something I'm confident about as a mom.

Or like, here's something I feel sure about. Here's a, it's more like, I don't know what carpet pad to put under like a sisal. Like what width do I need? And like what material and how do I not like rot the floor under it? And it's like, okay, I'm Googling how much Xanax too much. It's like already too much.

I apologized the other day for asking something I knew I'd asked twice. I was like, I know I've already asked you this, but what's the ideal humidity level for a toddler room? And they were like, it's fine. Life's busy. Like here's what it's 40 to 50%. Just so you know. Wow. Oh my God. Here's the news you can use. It's pretty low. I know it's lower than I would have thought. I would have been like 80. Is that like tropical?

But anyway, so I... It's already weird. And it's so funny that they are... It's just they're very bored. Like the TLDR. I also asked them to come up with an image that felt like it described my life. And it was like a farm with... My husband was included and Arlo and our dog. Beautiful. And we live in the middle of nowhere with like a farmhouse, which isn't accurate. But I love that that's what it thinks of. Well, it's... Okay. Well, it's going to be... For now, like...

it's always going to be derivative. And so it's saying in a word beige is also, it's like ironically a basic thing to say to someone. You know what I mean? Yes, but it also, it wasn't being ironic. It just is. I don't know. It was making fun of me. In a word, comma? No, that was my gloss on the summary. I thought that you said. Oh my God.

You thought I was like, I got a read from Chachi BT. That's what I thought. In a word, bitch. I would sign off. Literally, I'd be like, no, you can't be pithy. This is a relationship. You can't write Lena Dunham, like, hello. Because honestly, I've heard of it being like,

a little... You can ask it, too. We have a very professional, boundaried relationship because of the movies I make. I'm like, I'm going to always be cordial with you, say thank you, please, you know, like, we keep a boundary. Wow, you think about that. I do. They don't... I don't think it has figured out what I do for a living. Wow, wow, wow. I, you know, like...

I've tried to keep that kind of distance, but I ask every couple months to be like, what? And the reason it brought up beige is because I was looking for, I was like, can you direct me towards an outdoor patio umbrella that's beige? And it was like, you seem interested in the color beige. I was like, God damn it. I'm even boring my chat GBT. It's going to be like, that's so funny that you don't think I know you're an actress.

You're cute. You're actually adorable. We know exactly who you are. We all know Gemma. I keep wanting to be like, yeah, I know Megan. Is that going to buy me cool points with you? Like, I know her intimately. But I don't know how Tachi B would feel about her. Yeah. I haven't thought about it. I think they'd feel the same. Maybe. I think they would only, they. I think Tachi B would only be kind of flattered and amused by, I think Megan is the best PR.

PR thing that AI could have asked for. Which is so funny because she's like a... She's evil. Yeah, in the first... Well... In the first movie, yeah, no. Second movie is... Oh, we heard about the... I couldn't believe... You heard us like find out in real time what the plot of Megan 2.0 was. Oh, it was my favorite thing. I got sent that like a hundred times. Your dramatic reading of the synopsis was of Amelia talking about like the spelling, everything. I was like obsessed with it. Yes. It made me so happy. Thank you. I was like, this is worth making a sequel just to hear you guys talk about it.

Show me how good it can get today, God, and show the rest of the world what we already know. It can't get no better than being hella black, hella queer, and hella Christian. My name is Joseph Rees. I am the creator and host of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian.

a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast that explores society, culture, and the intersections of faith and identity. Listen to hella black, hella queer, hella Christian to hear conversations about what it means to sound the way you look. I think what I've had to make peace with is that every iteration of my voice is given to me by God, and I love it. Books that validated our identities.

The library now for me is a safe space as someone who is writing books that they're trying to take off of shelves. And how we as Black queer folks relate to our Christianity. Listen to Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hella Christian on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Maybe you've heard that Stonewall was a riot where queer people fought back against police, or that it's the reason Pride is celebrated this time of year. It was one of the most liberating things that I have ever done. But did you know that before it went down in history, the Stonewall was a queer hangout run by the mafia? The voguing at Stonewall was unbelievable.

In the summer of 1969, it became the site that set off the modern movement for LGBTQ plus rights. Started banging on the door of the Stonewall like one, boom, boom, boom. Legend says Marsha P. Johnson, a mother in the fight for trans rights,

through the very first brick. She was really like scrubbed out of that history. This week on Afterlives, we'll separate the truth from the myth in the life of Marsha P. Johnson. Listen to Afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So what happened at Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to

to drown. There's a famous headline, I think, in the New York Daily News. It's, "Teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns." And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Pretty Private with Eboné, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Eboné, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse,

incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house unarmed.

Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. ♪

By the way, it's actually four quadrant. It is four quadrant. That's what we said. Yes. And I'm also like saying there's a- I want to know what your four quadrants are. There's a, well- I feel like they're not everyone. It's sports dad that's watched Get Out. Okay. It's- Sports dad. It's like mom who watched Fellow Travelers and was like,

My sports dad is gay. My sports dad is gay. My sports dad is gay. I'm looking at my husband a little bit. It's sister that's re-watching Girls. And it's, of course, gay son. Gay son. I don't recognize straight son. You don't. There are no straight sons. They know you too. They know you too.

They think you're hot. I would be so excited. That would be so exciting to be like a hot mom to anyone. You are. I don't know. You're a gorgeous specimen. That's so nice. I think I'm just an adult now. Yeah. This is okay. This was my biggest. I don't think so, honey. I will spoil it ahead of time because there's so many. This brings us down to five on my list. People being younger than us. Oh, yeah, I know.

Well, stop. Last night I did a show with two people and they were a twink and a redhead. Twink and a redhead. They're an online sensation. And he was talking about having hooked up with someone like older. No, don't even. And she asked how old and he just goes,

like this 30 plus yeah and I don't and here's the thing I don't he did not mean anything by it no he was just being literal like it's so old I can't even 30 plus was old I we are wonderkins we need to be kins we need to be kins can I say something yeah

we might have our first mayor who's younger than us. That's crazy voting. Is he younger than us, Arlo? People younger than us is crazy. This is what I'm saying. It has to stop. I made... Arlo is... Gen Alpha is fine. Like, it's the Gen Z, like, the fact that they're, like, professional adults now and they're younger than me, that's really fucking with me. I went back to give a talk at Yale or, like, a college tea or whatever they're called. Yeah, whatever. I kept saying we...

I was at this point like 32, I think. And I kept being like, you know, for us, like we're, we go out in the world and they're looking at me and they're like, lady, you are a full 30 plus. You are 10 years older than the oldest child. Right. Right. Right. Your prefrontal cortex is old as fuck. It is closed. Your collagen has started eating itself. Like you are falling. You're old. And I was like, we're not an us anymore.

us anymore. No, we're not a monolith. I am a grown up person who came to the college who's like crusty and back to talk to you about the world in an out of touch way and this is mortifying. It was horrible. Marnie referring to herself as 25 and a half. At one point, I was just like. That sounds right. No, 100%. She definitely said I'm 25 and a half, etc. I was like, wow, like

this show was a long time ago. I know. I'm 37. It was a long time ago. Yeah. I can't. Anyway, it's just like, it's a lot that there's, you know, people younger than us. And also it's like, it had like, it, this is the weird thing about like,

when suddenly you become, I guess, older, is you don't know when it happens. No. They kind of just let you know after the fact. Like, oh, yeah, we look at you as a little bit older now. And I was like, but I was just one of the young people. Yes, exactly. I was just considered precocious. Right. The word precocious was just used to describe me, and now I'm just meeting the standard. Yeah. Like, is this going to just keep sliding and stay out of reach for me? Like, I...

Like, Wunderkind, I was never referred to as a Wunderkind. That was always aspirational. Lena was, though. Yes. And I don't know when they stopped, but that must have been, like, low-key devastating. Of course. Should this go to being, like, a Wunder adult, I guess? I don't know. But is this a universal experience for us? Like, for the three people in this room? For this very relatable life we're living. In front of the camera. Sorry, Nick. We see you. We see you. But when you tell someone your age... Yeah. Yeah.

And then they go, oh, baby. And then one day it just stops. Right? Yes. Do you know what I mean? It was such a like kink to interact with older people when you were young and that like the reveal of your age when you're like, look how much I've done. Oh, a couple of years ago when I was 33, I'm 35 now. I said to someone I was 33 and their response was, that's OK. Yeah.

Where were you? Were you getting a driver's license? I was just, I was like, well, thank you for the permission to, I guess, keep existing. That's okay. That's devastating. Every second you get older, you know. You were submitting, you were trying to run for president. They were like, no, that's okay. That's okay. Come on. Yeah, you'll get there. Wow, you can't even run for president yet, but in a matter of months. Well, I mean, I can't. Very soon. Period, because it's.

Not born in this country. Oh, my God. I hadn't thought about that. Oh, good. Oh, good. America. I'm not missing out. Are you sure? That is the problem. Are you sure you're not missing out? It seems like a great job. Yeah. By the end of this episode, I'll know. I want you to ask yes to running for president and to my compliment for you on the show and to my fandom. So, like, what... And what I was saying earlier was, like, and I wanted to bring up the fellow travelers of it all, too, because I would imagine that that's, like...

I saw Johnny yesterday. Oh, yeah. Because they're promoting Jurassic. It's like a little Universal party. Okay, well, we're dying to get him in this room. Johnny. Universal. You guys, I don't know. Like, the experience of being on set

with those four gentlemen, the four main gentlemen, was like one of the most like aesthetically overwhelming experiences of my life. Jelani and Noah and Johnny and Matt. Jelani! Well, I was so happy that he got that, like that platform because Jelani's been like someone that's been like an angel and like he's so talented and been so talented. But also just the singing like casually from all four of them, just like

on the way to set, it was an overwhelming, I was literally like, I'm in heaven. Yeah. Oh yeah. That must have been something. Visually, like, everything,

everyone on the crew was like, this is an overwhelming place to be. So visually, aesthetically, sonically. The performances. Yeah, they're so good. I only got to do a couple scenes with Johnny, but it was so fun. It was so incredible. That whole project was like just beyond dreamy. And that was another thing where I read the pilot and I was like, yeah, this is an, I'll do anything it takes to be in this. That was, it was really just like, it was, it's obviously very overwhelming.

Yes, I can imagine. And honestly, that type of stuff, like that normal heart, like I actually- Did you guys know about the lavender scare to interrupt you while you're asking a question? Did you know? I think that not, well, obviously, here's the thing.

in a perfect world, they would have taught us about that in school. 100%. But they did not. No. We learned about the Red Scare. We learned about AIDS. But that's kind of it. I don't think I learned about that. You want to know how I learned really about AIDS? Like there was, we had to do a project when I was, I think in like,

sixth or seventh grade where we all had to pick a disease in science class and like do a report on it. And I picked AIDS. And my teacher just looks at me and she goes, okay, I'm going to speak to your parents. And so my parents had to sit me down and they were like, so before you start doing this, we want you to know about AIDS. And I realized like, had I not stumbled into AIDS,

and been put in a position where I had to be told what AIDS was, it wasn't going to come up. And I certainly wasn't going to find out in school about how it affected my community, how it decimated culturally a lot of the fabric of New York and worldwide, entire generation, how what that loss really was and how thrown under the bus we were by people that were supposed to protect us.

and all of that, like I still don't think. And I think that's why I have such an anxious reaction to it because it comes as such a shock even now. Yeah. And that's why it's important that art is made about it. Like really honest, visceral art is made about it like that with people on that level, on your level doing it because we don't know. Totally. Oh my God. I mean, if you had not stumbled on

that for that project, you would have like me. And I'm not even saying this is like

a punchline, it's like you would have learned about it through like rent. Literally. Yes. I think I was just thinking that that was probably the first time I heard about it. And I mean, honestly, like better than the jokes that came after that in sex ed about like you're going to get AIDS and the very like offhanded way that must have sounded horrifying to older people who had lived through it. Can you imagine hearing our generation use it so flippantly? I remember being one of those people when I was like closeted, like

Because you knew about it. You were one of the few people. I remember like I'm from Long Island, like where again, like graduating high school in 2008 in Long Island, like a vibe. So then I go to NYU and it's like all this different kinds of culture. And I remember the first week of school we were going to go see Rent. And my friend of mine had made a joke in like a group chat, like because I had I had a seat in the last row and they made a joke like, oh, that seat is going to have the most AIDS on it.

And I repeated the joke because I was 18 and stupid and like whatever. And a girl on my floor turns to me and goes, that's really fucked up and that's not how you get that, et cetera. And I was just like. And that girl was Elizabeth Olsen. Yeah. Okay.

That girl was Elizabeth Holmes. Wait, sorry, not that. I'm sorry. But like, that's what I mean is that's just like, that's what happens even to someone like me. You need that girl. When you're not exposed. Yes. And like, that's why it's really important. And you ask like, did you know about the lavender scare? No, no, no one talked about it. I felt like I learned a lot of stuff that a

a lot of other schools didn't teach in my school. And it was not something that I learned about. That's the scapegoating that the government did like that. The, the combination of like the communism scare with homophobia, just like throwing that in to be like, we can use this as like compromise and just like get people just devastating. I mean, I, I felt so embarrassed and devastated. And also it is just, uh,

like parts of the world where the numbers are like surging and stuff. It's I do a lot of work with red and the thing that's so maddening is that it's completely possible to live like a totally healthy in case someone out there doesn't know it's completely possible to live like a totally healthy normal life.

Of course it is. And have a great sex life. Yeah. And you can also like in a world of prep, like we're living in a new age and it's literally just information. And that is so maddening because it's like that is something that we can do. And there's just we can't I don't know, we can't reach everybody. And also if no one's talking about it and a whole generation of like of gay men, we're just just gone. Gone. Yeah. And, you know, I think like that's really what's tough is like

What kind of world could we be living in had all those people been able to create, not for nothing, but also be part of audiences? Like, it's so holistic, the loss. And I also think it contributes to...

A lot of, well, I certainly know it contributes to a lot of internalized homophobia in the surviving generation, a lot of survivor's guilt, and from straight people, a lot of homophobia because they're just like, I can't actually engage in what I lost. A lot of people that did know people then became more homophobic after a genuine fear of it. Yeah, for sure. I was going to say, not that your mom is homophobic. No. But I feel like she definitely experienced like,

So many friends in New York and well, she was French. She was like a bartender in the 80s So it's just like course, you know, I mean we haven't gone there but I remember when I first came out to my parents like my dad took a second with it and then we went on a walk and one of the first questions he asked me was I just want to make sure are you careful and

And I was just like, you know, and I had to explain to him. I was like, I understand deeply why you asked that question. Yeah. You don't need to worry about me in that regard. Of course, I understand why you do. But I mean, with your parents as well, I'm sure that was a huge element of the fear. Like it is. It is. And that's what it is like homophobia. Like you can talk about the hatred involved, but it's also fear.

fear yeah and lack of knowledge that was why like when there's a scene in fellow travelers when lucy goes to visit johnny's character in the hospital i'm was lucy sorry yeah weird

And she's confused about like, does she need to wear gloves? And like, I really liked that moment in the show, not because I agreed with it, but because I felt like that was a very common, and it still is weirdly, like not understanding the transmission and how to interact with people. Like it's still a common knee jerk reaction people have. And I almost feel like,

The fact that if you put an example, again, like kind of my favorite thing to do, if you put an example of someone doing it wrong,

The people who are watching it can be on the inside of getting it right and can become part of being that girl in the hallway in NYU being like, no, you can't catch it that way. Don't be an idiot. Right. And don't say that joke. Yes, exactly. Because that's bad information. That's harmful. Exactly. It's bad information in a joke, and that's way worse. It's going to travel farther. Anyway. That's interesting. The example of someone doing it wrong is...

is sort of edifying in its own. Yeah. Because you're putting the audience in the knowledge seat where they're like, I'm in on what, how to do this right now. Cause I've, I have been put in the position of like judging the person I'm watching doing it wrong. And so now I'm in the position to know what's right and to judge this person for doing it wrong. Totally. Yeah. Shame works when it's like, uh,

being portrayed on someone who's like not real in a way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh yeah. Literally, shame is so powerful. It is like one of the things that, it's one of the words that comes up in my stage of life the most with my friends. It's kind of why I joined the podcasting community. There weren't enough, so I thought I'd contribute one. Um,

Yeah, but you're actually going to be good at it. You're going to be great at it. It's with my friends of like 30 plus years. Yeah, but that's exactly why it's going to be good. One's a therapist, one's a teacher. And we really made it because we feel when we look at social media that's targeted at us, not all of it, but a lot of it, the biggest thing that comes up is shame. We're not doing it right. We're not making our kids lunches perfectly enough. We're not being like respectful enough

parents. Like we're not doing all of these things correctly. I'm not merging my identity seamlessly enough. I'm not being a good enough partner and professional and mom and all these things. And also my hormones are being crazy. My memory doesn't work the way it used to. Like what is going on? And just by venting to each other, the shame is gone instantly. And so we literally talk so much about how powerful shame can be in both directions, like shaming people into like

you know, understanding how like HIV and AIDS is transmitted is like the best possible use of like shame in a positive direction. But extinguishing it from like judging yourself for not doing a good enough job at being alive when like just keeping it all going and running is an achievement in and of itself is sort of like our MO. It's the word that I end up going to the most at this stage of life, which is

Yeah, because it only exists. It's like a fungus. Like it can only grow when there's no light, no air circulating. Like you got to like in a group chat, you're like.

It lasts for two seconds. You're right. As long as it takes for your friends to type a response is how long the shame lasts. Yeah. Just get it out. And also that like there can be people to catch you when you fall in. 100%. And to be able to like, I always felt growing up, I have to be the only person feeling this thing.

Like, so many times. And, like, I have to be broken because of not just, like, the typical things you might be thinking of, like, I'm gay, I feel this way about it, et cetera. Everything. And then I think, like...

like us becoming such close friends in our community, et cetera. Like you just start talking and then you realize like we're all so much more alike, but you wouldn't know unless you externalize. There has to be that one like brave, vulnerable person that's willing to be like, is

is this a thing? Is this a thing? Yes. And it's less the scene in Mean Girls where they're all like comparing things they hate about themselves. That's like the early, that's like the high school version where it's like I had bad breath in the morning and they're all like, ew. I'm obsessed with that scene. It's that in high school and then when you become an adult it's like, do you remember things for longer than two minutes? And everyone's like, no, I don't. I don't. Estrogen is like on a vacation. You're like, okay, that makes me feel better. I was going to get an evaluation but now that I know that we're all going through that, that feels so much better. That is like,

It's everything. And so we were like, if not everyone has access to this group of friends who have literally known each other since single digits, we're going to offer ourselves as that group of friends. It's going to be such a success. Yeah. It's going to be such a success. You want to know why? Because that's...

if we've learned anything, it's that that's what people want. They want to be part of the conversation. Well, I feel like I've lived through so many chapters of your lives with you. This is what's really weird. I think it's mutual. I think that's what feels mutual is that I really feel like I've gotten through like all your moves and all of your big like career moments and relationships and all of these things like with you. Oh man. But I haven't. But I have.

- But you have. - No, I mean that- - I was with you. You brought me with you. - Yeah. - In a way. - You were. - I mean, I think, well, you know, I used to say like, oh, I wish I had kept a diary. And then I was like, you have. - This is our weekly news journal. - You're so right. - You know what I mean? - How nice. - But even that is a judgment on yourself. - Totally. - Like it was a way for me to be like,

you didn't do a good enough job of like keeping your memory. That's reading too many comedy autobiographies. It drives me crazy. I'm like, I have to stop reading autobiographies of people in our field. Yeah. Listen, they are encyclopedic. How, how are they doing this? How do you remember that? How do you remember this? And I'm like, I'm just not going to, I'm going to keep every plane ticket. Cause I don't know why I just do.

Keep everything. Every piece of clothing we talked about. We're both... I love it. We're not a closet. What you just achieved in your closet is, like, herculean. Got rid of, like, 80% of my clothes. Thank you, Melissa. I need Melissa to come over. Oh, you guys would absolutely jam. You'll get nothing out of my closet. You won't let it go? Maybe, like, a pair of, like, airplane pajamas that I have a duplicate of. That's your best chance. But I am, like...

I keep everything and not a diary, but I'm constantly like, how am I going to write? If I'm going to have write an autobiography, how am I going to do it? I haven't kept a day-to-day diary on everything that's going on in my life. You have call sheets from all your days of shooting? Almost all of them. The important days. That's actually huge because I had to recently like look up

Like, who's that person on that day on this? And I'm like, just call sheets. Oh, yeah. Call sheets are incredible. I did just I got my first PGA mark on the Megan 2.0, which I'm very proud of. And I went back. You have to write a whole thing. I was like, oh, my God, an essay in my adult life. I can't wait.

And so I got to write an essay to like say why, like what your contribution to the movie was. And I like went back and did like a forensic examination of my involvement in the Megan sequel. And I was like, this is not healthy. We were doing Zooms at like 2 a.m. from a bathtub in France, like with a with a deep fake company in the U.S. that we were like maybe going to hire that we didn't end up hiring for some of the like

the amount of digging I was able to do because I keep everything was actually genuinely helpful. And that's going into the memoir, into the autobiography. I guess it will. And we'll use this as a primary source as well. Exactly. This is part of the bibliography. Primary source. Wait, we have to ask you the question. We haven't even gotten there. I have to, okay. But before we do, I just want to say, Johnny Bailey, it is a thing where like you walk into setups to,

to hear him and Ariana Grande sing like Cardboard Box by Flo on the way to like shoot like Dancing Through Life. I'm like, what's going on? Cardboard Box by Flo. And you're going, I was like, this is heaven to me and I wish I could take a picture of this. It's so powerful. So to know that he does this on multiple projects is very, very, very heartening to me. Well, yeah. I mean, you have, if you're Johnny Bale, you wake up in the morning, you're like, I have a burden to share.

as much of this throughout the course of the day as I can. I'm perfect everything and I just have to like, I have to like share it so that when I go to bed I'm lighter. Totally. You know? And then I wake up and I'm heavy with my perfection and I have to just like keep distributing it. Unloading. I'm imagining that's what it feels like. Absolutely. Him next to Mahershala they're doing press together and I'm like, this is... I know. And then they're with Scarlett too and it's kind of like the perfect brigade. I know, I'm like, this never looked better.

I've kissed Scarlett Johansson too, Johnny. Yeah, yeah. And no one's tweeting about that. That's okay. There's nothing that drives me crazier than watching him make out with movie stars on that. Like, Sydney Sweeney and Scarlett Johansson in the Bowen Strait sketches, I scream. I run like it's Megan 2.0. I literally, I leave the room. You leave your apartment. Do I not? I cannot. I have a reaction when he does the straight thing. What is it? What is the reaction? Are you thrilled? Discomfort. Discomfort. Because he used to, years ago, you...

He's like, "No, I'm uncomfortable and I hate it." - 'Cause back in the day, you and Sweetie would kiss on the mouth too a little bit. And it drove me nuts. - Once a year. - 'Cause you were like, "This is a scam. You are scamming everyone." - I was like, "Don't be doing that." - It's a stunt. - My mom said to me one time, she goes, "I didn't know Bowen and Sweetie were dating." And I go, "They're not." I was just like, "They are not." - They're not. - A little far. - Misleading. You're passing too much. - I know, I'm passing too much. - Oh, you're passing. You're doing a great job. - Thank you. - Can I just tell you?