"The Promise of the Premise" (w/ Matt & Bowen)
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Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. My girl has me laughing straight away. Well, you know, I just had to comment on the glow, the berries glow. Shut up. I literally, I'm looking at myself in the Zoom screen. Yes. The grid. The grid. Okay. So in

In terms of alcohol these days, do you feel the next day like it's a little different, like immediate puffiness? Immediate puffiness? Well, I mean, not to refer to the last episode, but the video of that is really rough for me because I am puffy, blotchy, red in spots that make no sense. I've got archipelagos on the face.

It's really crazy. And that's perfect example for me. But what about you? I just feel like it's funny that you say like, wow, you look so healthy. What a glow. Literally the other day I was like, oh yeah, I'm like, I've been really good. It's like I was calling it dry-ish January. By the way, I thought you looked absolutely incredible in the video. I thought everyone involved looked amazing. I thought the lights were perfect. I thought they weren't too harsh at all.

In the room, though, they were bright. Well, no, I was just thinking the other day, like, I'll have, like, a night out, and the next day, it's like, it's a different face. And I think that's just, what happens when you get a little bit old? You know? Yeah. Now, lots of culture since the last episode. Would you say you're caught up? No.

Damn, you really, you really launched us into the topics at hand here with that one. I had that loaded. I definitely am caught up. I made a little list. And so just, you know, because I know you're all chomping at the bit. We're not going to do our goblet of years today because there's so much culture to talk about slash we both didn't make the document to follow. So that's just the reality of today. But fear not. Fear not. Because I really feel there's so much to discuss. Yeah.

In 93, we weren't going to do like a slipshod job with it. It's a big year. So we got to really do the homework. You know what I mean? It's a Jurassic-sized year. But okay, so you sort of belted those notes before. Cut up.

And I'm feeling like... I really belted that. You really belted that. You said that shit with your chest. Wow, all of this is going to come together later. What did you think of Usher? Were you absolutely thrilled with the performance? I was so happy watching him. I was like, this is an entertainer. That whole production was Atlanta and Vegas. It was so those cities...

All the elements were great. I mean, this man, that quick change, I looked one minute, under one minute, insane. For him to go into, well, granted, he was shirtless going into the roller skate look. But one minute, and I just, my quick change girlies out there who know, who have practical knowledge of this. Have you ever- You little Broadway cunts. You little Broadway cunts, in the words of-

In the words of Tina Fey, great American. Have you experienced quick change culture at all? I have. Yeah. I did amateur sketch, not on the level that you did, but I've done quick changes for show. Someday you're, for show, someday you're going to have like three people waiting for you in the wings. Oh, I hope. With an open jacket, with pants, with like a wig. And wide eyes. And wide eyes. And I just want to say one minute is...

nail-biter time. It's crazy. First of all, it's really much shorter than you think. One minute on the clock, you're really on the clock there. You better hurry. One minute in Vegas is quick. Talk about a New York minute. That's a Vegas minute. Baby, it's like Fire Island. Time moves a little differently there.

Wow. Who wrote that? A tortured poet. Joel Kim Booster. From the Tortured Poets Department. Now, if Taylor is the chairman, who is Joel? Candidate Vice Chair. Oh, okay. Viceroy. Viceroy. Very Star Wars Episode I. Natalie Portman. Okay, continue. Usher. Usher. Oh, no. That's, I mean...

I do have an I Don't Think So Honey that's about an element of this that is not specific to anyone on that stage that night. But it's a thing that I think we have the means to correct. And yet we still in the year 2024 don't get right. And I want to talk about this later on. Oh, my God. Well, now I'm absolutely I feel baited. I'm edging for that. So my opinion on the Usher performance is I think it got better.

It started and I thought, okay, there's a lot going on. I just think I was contrasting it with Rihanna's performance last year, which was so for the cameras and the colors were so clear and she was so focused and it was just very... That was a new kind of Super Bowl performance. That was all...

This one was pretty, I think, it hewed to tradition in a way that totally was fine and acceptable. And also, that's a man, and men just don't do it for gay men in the way that women do. Does that make sense? Yeah, but that being said, I do think that he was dressed like one of the world's top 10 gayest men. Like, I do think his outfits are often what I would call...

especially that blue number he came out in and did the roller skates on. I think that like there was so much here for the gay male eye. For example, Usher was shirtless. Usher was dancing. Usher was looking gay. And I say this as the biggest compliment, like whenever a straight man can come out looking that gay, I think it's so incredible. And I think that was actually a message to the world that gay is here. I think that was an LGBTQ performance plus even if,

If I had any note for the performance, it's the same note that I have for the LGBTQ plus community, which is too much, too much at the beginning. You know what I mean? That's your note for the community. Yeah, too much. I just thought at the top there was so much going on that I couldn't like see it.

But once Alicia came out and once we got over that first note, we got we got to greener pastures. And I loved watching the Mayabu performance. I thought Alicia looked amazing. Alicia looked great.

And you know, that was a throwback moment. And that chemistry is still there between those two. Totally. I thought once we got through, when we got him off that first mic and we got into the performance, then I thought the performance got better. Like the roller skating was incredible. He's obviously amazing. But you know, I thought overall it was like a seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seven seems good.

Your note in the beginning about there being too much, I think that's a camera note because it would like... Some girl in a tux would do a backflip and the camera would follow her for some reason. But it's like, no, we want to look at Hersher. Like, why are we following... Yeah, something for sure was happening with the camera. There was something going on at the top. And again, this is like so small and nitpicky because the performance is great. His songs are... I remember when I saw him in Vegas, I was like, wow, you know so many more of these than you realize. It is...

It's like an arsenal of hits, which I think is so important in a Subway performer. And I want to get your opinion about who the next couple great Super Bowl headlines you want to see are. Did you say Subway performer? Yeah.

Did I say Subway Performer? I think you said Subway Performer. Can we roll back the page? Can we get a confirmation on whether I said Subway Performer? Subway Performer. In Subway Performer. Yes, Becca says yes. I'm sorry. I just had to acknowledge that. I was like, you're calling Usher a busker? No. I don't think Usher has needed to busk ever. That was a sleep of the tongue. No. No.

No one involved. This is Subway Performer. And also, this is, I say it with all the respect to all Subway Performers. Of course. Many of them could probably do the Super Bowl and do a fabulous job, a bang-up job. Now, what was your original question? What do you think...

We're going to see in terms of next great Super Bowl headliner. The girls and I were sort of kicking this around the other day, like because it feels like there aren't too, too many people who are like monoculture huge that would excel at the Super Bowl. And then we kind of kicked around like a couple names that we think could do it. Like, obviously, there's Taylor. We'll get to her. There's a lot to discuss about Taylor this week.

I was thinking, especially after the Grammys, like Miley would be amazing. I also think Dua would be amazing. But I want to know what you think. Dua would be amazing. Miley would be amazing. Because we really are hitting a plateau in terms of people who have not been picked to do it. Yeah. And I don't know if it's a matter of

of like letting the girls cook for a little. Exactly. Before they're ready. But I feel like things have been simmering for some decades for some of these girls now. Like Usher, I would say this was like the right time for Usher. Totally. But he could have done it like at any point in the last 10 years probably. But I wonder what that math is or what the factors are. And I'm like, there's a million decisions that go into picking the right person. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, Taylor. Do you want to talk about Taylor now? I guess my thing is like, the thing about Miley and Dua there is it's like, Dua is basically a cheerleader. She puts on a great show and she has enough hits that are like mainstream big hits that everyone knows where they could keep coming and it would be a really fun show. And you kind of can see in your mind's eye what that would be. And then Miley is just such a huge name and does have the big songs. I do think that there's

an argument to be made about like letting them cook more like you were saying, because we were saying like, you know, after like another album or two, both of them are like no brainers. But I was just thinking like, what would I want to see? I feel like the rubric is the person has to be huge enough where they're

At every Super Bowl party, everyone's going to say, oh, so-and-so is doing the game, and we all know who that is. Everybody be quiet. No one has to be explained who Beyonce is. No one has to be explained who Lady Gaga is. It's that same thing. So that's one tier. And then the other tier is that person has to be willing and able to do the work to put on that good and that level quality of a show. And so those are the two things that...

And also, in that second thing, it's like wanting to do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I don't know if someone like Mariah Carey would want to do that because it's a lot of pressure. Do you think Ariana would want to do the Super Bowl? I...

Don't know. Yeah, right? It's a lot of pressure. My gut is telling me not anytime soon. But I would have to ask the girl. And I don't want to bother her with that kind of question. Well, call her. You guys met during the Wicked trailer. No, bitch. Bowen and Ariana met during the making of the Wicked trailer. The making of the Wicked trailer? Yeah, you guys made that great trailer that showed during the Super Bowl. But we met during the making... Oh, you're saying...

The circumstances of our meeting, of our first meeting, was for the making of the Wicked trailer, but just the trailer. Yeah, you guys have been shooting the Wicked trailer for a couple of years now. Yeah, I can't wait to do the movie at some point. I think that'll be really fun. Congrats, grad, on the Wicked trailer. I mean, Lincoln, you'll miss me. Yeah, but you know what? Guess what? You know who noticed you?

Meme creators. And that's all that matters, hun. They got you turning around and they said, Bowen Yang really gave that gay gaze. Listen. He turned around like a faggot should. I mean, everyone, get ready. I'm really showing my range. I'm playing a gay guy. But you know, I'm playing a hater for the first time. Oh my god. Wait, thank you for that. You made a distinction. Oh yeah, he's not just any gay guy.

Fanny is a hater. Just go online and read the discourse, honey. Girl. If you want to do some research. I've been researching. I've been researching. No, this guy sucks and frankly is a racist. Oh my God. He sees a green person and he goes, I'm going to fucking ruin that person's life. Wow. You had to go to the depths of really, you had to go deep.

to the most disgusting part of yourself and reach deep down in order to play Fanny in this film. And by film, I mean the Wicked trailer. The trailer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The trailer. I will say...

The discussions going into Fanny, like, John M. Hsu, God bless him, is a director down, no small parts, is like, let's sit down and talk about Fanny and Shun-Chi. And then me and Brahman were like, absolutely. And then Ari was there. And then we all, the four of us, like, talked about these people. And I think we arrived at something really interesting. And I can't wait for you guys to see. I can't wait to see, like, what happened when you guys really sat down and...

put pen to paper and said, who is a crazy, sycophantic, racist gay guy in this world? You know what I mean? Like, and his name is Fanny. Like, it's me. Who is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And,

It looks good, girl. I love the train. The train. Absolutely. The train was a huge moment. Now, what do you think of this? Some people pointed out that they made that bitch Dorothy walk when they had trains the whole time to the Emerald City. What do you make of that? I think they lied to Dorothy several times about what she was capable of, what she could do. And I think she showed them. Because can I tell you something? Dorothy did it backwards and in heels. And it's actually really number 56. Yeah.

Dorothy did it backwards and in heels. Dorothy Gale was a legend. I think Dorothy walked forward. Yeah.

I don't think she did it backwards. And that's a kitten heel, bitch. That is not a real full-fledged deal. Oh my God, drag her. You're like, my girl, you're a real bootlicker. You're like, I saw Ariana walking in stilettos on set. Dorothy was in a kitten heel. And you said she didn't do it backwards. She, in fact, had a lot of friends helping her skip along the way. Skip along the way. She was arm and arm with these fucking freaks.

who betrayed her. They really are freaks. I mean, not spoiler alert. It's, you know, this is wicked, but like Scarecrow and Tin Man, they're users. They use Dorothy to help Elphaba escape.

Do you know what I mean? Very smart. Yeah, I mean, I think that the manipulation amongst that group can only be described as they're definitely in contention for Traitor Season 3. Oh my god! Get them on the cast. Get Scarecrow, Fiero, get Tin Man, fucking Bach. Yes, get them on cast. Oh my god. Dude.

This is the only real plot hole, though, in Wicked and Wizard of Oz to me. Fiyero was Scarecrow all along. Make it make sense to me. I'm sorry, girl. I'm out. I'm not seeing this. Girl, take it up with Gregory Maguire. He knows. He knows the truth. I just might.

Okay, can I say, can I reveal, there was one set visit where Gregory Maguire came. It was very exciting. I never know if you actually can reveal these things. Can I say, can I reveal? I think I'm okay to say this. And then you always say, absolutely. And then I'm always so nervous. But here you go. I can say this. Roll it out. Say this. Gregory Maguire came to set. And then I went over to say hello to him. He was so nice. And then I think...

I think this is a lie. And Gregory, if you're listening, because this is literally what he said, you must confirm. He goes, and I really enjoy your podcast. I was like, oh, thank you, Mr. McGuire. You think Gregory McGuire is a reader, Katie Publicist finalist? I can't picture him listening to this podcast. That is a man, that is a cultured man who is, I'm going to say, out of the traditional demo of...

And I say that with love and respect and admiration. But that's Gregory Maguire, one of the most successful authors in the last 20 years. Bowen, I'm telling you, I never put it past anyone nowadays. I think everyone listens to this. Everyone and their mother.

I think everyone's at home listening, streaming. I think that they are absorbing. You think Mama McGuire is listening with Gregory? I think he listens with his mom. I think a lot of people do. Oh my God. That's so cool. Let me tell you, this is huge, this podcast. I mean... Listen, and it's a nominee for Best Pop Culture Podcast at the iHeartRadio Awards, you know? We're here breaking down the latest in pop culture. It's us versus Bethany Frankel. Hey!

Headline, we are in the wrong category here. That's okay. Look, they couldn't give it to us every year. We were very honored to win podcast of the year last year. And don't forget it. And don't forget it. 2023, a competitive year. Oh yeah, this is a real nail biter. Hey everyone, we here at Lost Culture East just love Philanthropy.

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Okay, so the Wicked trailer, that was great. I was very excited. A lot of people have their favorite images from the trailer because you know that something that happens is, you know, or something will come out and people will be like, oh my God, this, and they'll show a picture from the trailer. This is sort of meme culture. What are the pictures you saw? Oh, Jonathan Bailey getting his face stroked. I think a lot of people are very excited about his face and the stroke in question. You know what I mean? People are very excited about the final scene

roar of the song which you know if you were truly like you know someone scurrying around the internet you had heard it before because it was out there but to hear it in all its glory in the trailer oh yeah that was major major and put some sauce on it texture mm-hmm

It was really, I mean, is it not thrilling? I got goosebumps. So thrilling. I'd already heard it and I got goosebumps when I watched the trailer for the first time. I went, wow, good job. You know there were at least 10 meetings about should we put the riff in the trailer? I think you gotta give the riff a chance.

Give the riff. That's going to put butts in seats. You know what I mean? If there was any question about whether there'd be butts in seats, I just feel like, you know, it's the trailer. It's the wicked trailer. It's the Super Bowl. Like, we know there's going to be that note. Like, let's hear it. And I think it sounded fucking great. And it looked thrilling. I also, I saw...

some people posting like this is my reaction to the Wicked trailer and like those things of like someone taking a video of themselves reacting to it. Yeah, what are we doing there? I think it's funny. I don't know. I'm not dragging. I'm not dragging. I'm just questioning like the conventions of this new thing where I'm going. Watch me watch. Watch me watch. And I go, okay, but what can you give me a reason to watch? Can I get commentary during the

Can I get commentary after? Some of these girls are just posting pictures of their silent faces. And I go, I'm going to need a little bit more than that. That's all. I'm not dragging. I'm saying, can we deliver on the promise of the premise? You are a hungry bottom for a take, for a dissection. You want to hear the discourse. We're putting our necks out every week, giving our takes. Authenticity is so dangerous and expensive. You know how much trouble I could get in for anything?

You know, Bowen Yang, he's an endangered species out here. An honest public figure? Come on now. I'm getting in trouble. I'm getting in trouble everywhere. Everywhere you go. Wait, what was that? Oh, so basically, like, people seemed very excited to see her in the bubble. I was excited to see her in the bubble. We saw a lot. We saw a lot of iconography. Yeah. It was a really good trailer. And for me, it gave a lot. Love. What else? What else was a Super Bowl moment? I would say the...

Homes.com commercial starring Dan Levy and Heidi Gardner. Yeah, she needed more lines. Give Heidi more lines. But you know what? I'm sure she... And I don't want to speak for her, but...

good job getting the bag. That's all you need. That's all that matters. That's what I consoled myself with the whole time as I sat there watching it and I felt she didn't have enough lines. I'm like, well, at least she got this huge fucking check and really kadoos to everyone who got the big check. I just felt, you know, my girl could have been given a couple more of the, the,

The punchlines. Right. What else? Super Bowl moment. I didn't watch the game this year, but... So I for sure did. And I was watching it at a party where it wasn't like a ton of people. So we could watch a lot of the commercials and stuff. Like we did see the Beyonce commercial in the clean. And so were you watching when...

So you were not watching. Okay, so we were watching when she... And let's just transition into this now. So we were watching where at the end of the commercial... By the way, she did a very fun commercial. And it was with Tony Hale. It surprised me. I was like, she said yes to this? Not only did she say yes, she drank a Celsius for it. She was excited to act. She was excited to act and give comedy. But a lot of setups, a lot of costume changes, a lot of buy-in for her. You had to imagine that she...

I wonder what the convincing was for her to be like, sure, I'll put on these pink kitten headphones and type on a little gaming keyboard. Beyonce, as an image...

As someone who is rightfully protective of her image, I'm like, I want to know what that conversation was. To be like, B, it's going to be really funny and then Tony is going to come in to your left and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the commercial, I did see, I did consume the content in the right order, which was saw the Verizon commercial on Instagram because I was on Instagram during the game.

And then she says, drop the new music. And I go, what? Yeah. So I leapt out of my chair when she said that. It was during the Super Bowl. And by the way, at that point, I believe the halftime show had happened. And so the game was kind of over for me at that point because I will say the game was extremely boring until I guess it got good later. But I had sort of bailed at that time because this commercial happened. And she says...

They're ready. Drop the new music. So I leap out of my chair. I say, what? I go to anywhere where... Let's just say someone like Taylor would immediately have shit ready. You know what I mean? I feel like you'd log on to Instagram and it would be there. Beyonce was teasing us a little bit because...

It wasn't immediate that things were uprooted. It became clear in the minutes after that moment what was happening like in piecemeal. But we were truly like ravenous for it. What an innovator though. Like she gives us that little window where we kind of go into a frenzy.

Well, I guess the whole commercial was like break the internet. And I was like, okay, well, she just might with this one because I'm sure every person who cares is like, which that number must register in the millions must be online, like trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. So then you find out

It's the country album. She's fully launching us into the era. Act two, whether it's called Renaissance Act two or if it's going to be like Act two, some other name. We don't know. We don't know much, but we know more than we did. March 29th is a country album. Two songs are out. Texas Hold'em and 16 Carriages. Your thoughts? I was driving all day yesterday while you on the group chat were popping off with the rest of the girls about

things. And my thoughts are 16 Carriages is kind of new ground genre aside, not even genre aside. Daddy Lessons was kind of like the precursor to all this, as we all know. But I think what's really interesting is to hear her sing about this time in her life in this sort of bittersweet, balanced way, because either she's talked about her upbringing and like

committing herself and making the sacrifices to become the star in a very bravado braggadocious way as in like flawless or something I'm the queen you can't touch me you've been bowing down why would you stop now yeah like that whole energy yeah even like the diva off of Sasha Fierce like since 15 of my stilettos like that kind of thing or 16 I don't know what the exact age is in the song but either it's

or it's like pure tragedy as in like a Pretty Hurts where she's like knocking down the trophies, you know, talking about how like, you know, like the things that were ingrained in her growing up. This 16 characters to me feels incredibly like the third option, which is

It's amazing. It's also terrible. I don't know what life I missed. Also, now I can reflect on it as a mother. Like, I've got kids at home, and I'm overwhelmed, overworked, as opposed to being underpaid and overworked when I was little. All I could think about when I first heard 16 Carriages was how incredible this is going to be live. Just, like, the way that...

everyone's going to be wailing and swaying to that song. Like I just, I couldn't be more excited about the way these songs, both of them are going to play going forward because I think with Texas Hold'em, which I have not stopped listening to is really taken the crown from single soon. But I have not stopped listening to it because I feel like it's like future comfort listening. You know what I mean? Like this is going to be one of those songs that's,

I think always going to feel good and it feels really familiar, which I think is awesome.

fine and it feels like you know she put out this country song and like she's announcing this country era and so a lot of people are having a lot to say about like how country it is or like what it means or what it's indicative of and what i would say is i was just like yes this is country like there's really some people out here being audacious enough to be like well it's not really country like i get what you're saying like it's you know poppy enough to be played on pop

radio who knows if country radio will really embrace it that has so much more to do with whether or not it's appropriate for country radio and so much more to do with bureaucracy and bullshit and like the political nature of our times right now what I digress but for example if Maren Morris recorded this

And put it out. You'd be like, Maren Morris is back. That would be the headline. Maren Morris is back country. Like if KC put this out, they'd be like, wow, this is the most country KC album in years. That's what the narrative would be. If Taylor put it out, that would be it. It would be the whole thing. I feel like because it's Beyonce, it goes through this filter of like, how can we- Interloping. Right. And that is ridiculous, especially when you realize like,

who's playing on this record? Raphael Sadiq is on this record. Look at her collaborators. They all have roots in this music. Also, Black culture has roots in this music. This music has roots in Black culture, rather. I understand and I've engaged with some people who have said this thing like, oh, it's not really country. I'm like,

what are you saying here? Because there is that kind of country snob. That's like, Oh, it has to be certain instruments. It has to be certain. Like you have to keep time a certain way, et cetera. I'm like, is this a snob thing? Or is this just like a knee jerk cultural reaction? And,

And lo and behold, it is a knee-jerk cultural reaction. People are like, well, she's not even singing about a dead dog or a tractor. It's not country. It's like, girl, please shut the fuck up. I don't think so, honey. This idea that a country song can't be about anything. Of course it can be about anything. It's just a style. It's a genre.

Like, she sort of sings a song about a mom in a car accident where the baby's in the backseat or something. Yeah, I mean, Jesus Take the Wheel. They were looking for Beyonce to do a Jesus Take the Wheel cover. And producer Becca says the truth, which is real country, is about grit. And that is 100% true. And I think that, like, another thing that's annoying is the pitchfork review for this song, which, did you read this? Oh, well, no. I just think they have to...

slow their roll on this one because they go, you know, it is a little weird for Beyonce to be singing about like being like down home at a dive bar. Like you can't really picture her there. It's like, well, that's what she did on break my soul. She was like, she doesn't have a nine to five. Stop. It's fine. And that's, I guess the note that they have is like Beyonce singing about nine to five is LOL. It's like, can,

Can we just zoom out for a second? Artists don't have to be entirely 100% autobiographical or truthful in their lyrics. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it's actually the job of an artist, of a creator to create a fantasy, to create a

you know, something livable for the people that the music is for. Like, music is not always for the artist. It's not so they can go out on stage and they can live their truth every night. Of course that exists. But also, music is created for the listener. And that's what she is doing. And she's about her fans and she's about that communal experience. So to review it in a way that immediately discredits her because you can't picture her

in that environment, it's like, okay, so what do you want Beyonce to sing about? Like, this weekend, me and Jay hung out with a lot of our friends. A lot of them are venture capitalists in the Hamptons. Like, I don't think we want that song, everybody. I think it's okay that we're singing about, like, Beyonce having a fucking baller time, whether it's, you know, the dance floor in a house sense or, like, the dive bar in a country sense. Like, we should just be excited that Beyonce, who's

prodigiously genius musical talent is giving this kind of thing for everyone to embody and enjoy. It just feels like a really bizarre, bad faith criticism of her that really only she and people on her level would get anyway.

Can I tell you something? I don't think she cares. I don't think she cares if people are like gatekeeping country. But I want to talk about the live aspect of what this album will be, which is, I think you pointed this out offline, not picturing stadium tour. It's going to be a sphere residency or something where it's like we go. Well, those rumors are out there. Well, I think those are valid rumors. And I think that is the setting that makes the most sense for an album like this, where it's like,

She's going to park it in one place, and then everyone else is just going to go to her rather than she's this traveling circus going from town to town. You know what I think? I think the sphere is not really right because I feel like you are dead on about the parking it of it all. But something about the sphere makes...

Maybe that's something down the road she's thinking. Maybe if the third album is a rumored rock album or it's some sort of thing, maybe that's the sphere. Or you think rock album for the sphere. Interesting. I think so because that makes a lot of sense to me. Whereas...

This album is so... She's made so many allusions to obviously Texas already. It feels very outdoors to me. It feels very... I can see this taking place outside. Maybe she parks it in Texas somewhere. Maybe she parks it in Atlanta somewhere. Somewhere where I can feel very truthful to the roots of this music and also give that big feeling. I don't know if it's the sphere. The sphere feels very cooped up to me, which obviously...

obviously feels odd to say because you can create anything in there, but

I just feel like I hear this music and I want to be outside. You think it's going to be like a lover fest situation? I do. The festival that never was. I think Beyonce saw lover fest and was like, well, start the pandemic now because we need to make sure that's my idea. I think Beyonce said- You think Beyonce started the pandemic? Start the pandemic. Wow. Mess up the 5G poles. Yeah, she-

She said, hit the button. Hit the button. She said, Illuminati, go! Well, that's really interesting. I think you're right about that, about the outdoor of it all. Sure, totally. After Renaissance Act I, I think she's like,

I don't want to tour again for a minute. I want to stay in one place. I'm sick of these planes. Yeah, it's weird. Like, to contrast her with Taylor, who I guess is just going to keep on doing this show, it's like, you know, I guess all we're getting from Taylor is the one new era and she's going to keep doing this show, whereas Beyonce feels now completely moved on from Renaissance Act 1. And this is...

sort of what I was saying about seeing Renaissance in concert was it felt like this was just the chapter, whereas Eris felt very curious.

Cumulative? Cumulative? Excuse me? And I feel like that's proven to be true. Like, will Beyonce do the same thing? Will she park it? We don't know. But either way, it's going to be like a very, very exciting new era. Becca has said, if you saw any of her content of her being in Houston for the Renaissance tour where she was eating fried chicken from a local shop, LOL, real country is about grit. Oh, okay. So she's commenting on the...

The grit of it all. I think that was in response to like, she wouldn't go to a dive bar. Oh, oh, oh. Which not to compare them again, but if Taylor can write songs outside of her own experience and filter it through like a character, let's say, I don't really understand that argument that like Beyonce has to authentically write to her own life.

So yeah, authenticity is dangerous and expensive and unreasonably applied. I think there is an over-analysis of these people in a way that's getting annoying and also is causing us to really spin our wheels. And I don't think it's necessarily our fault. Like this thing about like, well, what's the truth? What's real, et cetera. It comes from the fact that it feels like

There are very few very famous people right now. And I think obviously like that's always led to like, at least on their part, like a fear of oversaturation, right? Like I feel like Taylor in the past has been very conscious about oversaturating, but it feels like that consciousness is not active right now. I think they're like the only famous people in the world and that is leading to this fervor and discussion on them, which is

ultimately going to make us all crazy because it can't all be rooted in like truth or actual like what's really going on here you know what I'm saying right like even all the videos coming out of like Taylor and Travis after the gay making out at a party I'm like I'm very Valerie Cherish about this I'm like I don't really want to see that I don't want to see that you know not out of a distaste for either of them out of like a that shouldn't be for us

There is too much available to us right now, and I think that is... Okay. This is my honest opinion about it. I'm super excited about Tortured Poets Department as a fan of her music. I will say...

It's a lot. It's the Super Bowl. It's football at large. It's a new album. It's every old album. It's capitalism. It's the Jets. It's the bonuses. It's the economy. It's this. It's that. It's Travis. It's Joe. It's the ambassador of Japan. It's everywhere in the world. It's Kelly Teller. It's...

Lana. It's ice. It's too much. And I think that it needs to... Well, I don't even know if it needs to slow down at this point because it doesn't feel like that's going to happen because we're about to get a new album and that's going to be everywhere. I think it's probably good that so many of the girls are going to be releasing albums and there's going to be a lot going on, but...

With the tailor of it all, it almost just feels like... The valve has not been released. Right. Then you have to think, is it on purpose? Is it a conscious total media takeover? Because she's aware of it. I mean, she knows what happens when she goes to the Super Bowl and it ends up being the most watched telecast of all time. It's so much to the point where I'm like,

is it a conscious oversaturation to launch herself into the rebirth of the reputation era? I wonder. Then I think, am I insane for thinking it's that calculated? And then I think, well, not really, because this is the world we're living in. And like, this is, it's literally the narrative. I don't think she wants to recreate

the road to reputation necessarily. Yeah. Because that would mean that she would have to be taken completely down again, which I don't think. But what does she think is going to happen at this level of fame? What does she think is the positive step from this? I guess that's my question. Like how exactly? And can I say the only reason I'm starting to call it out is because I started to recognize something unhealthy about

With the Travis and Taylor of it all. Because I remember there was a time in my life where I felt like I was at a 10 and someone else was at a 10. And all of a sudden, it got out of control. And then all of a sudden, you're not at the Super Bowl anymore. And you're not at the Eris Tour anymore. And what exactly happens in the months going forward? Because it feels like...

All of a sudden, you know, coming up for air here. Yes, it's very exciting to watch this and they seem very in love and I don't have any doubts that they are extremely in love. But is this all healthy? Is this all sustainable? Well, I mean, that kind of applies in all directions, I think.

There's no way out of them for this. If they met each other and fell in fucking love, and it just so happens to be that they are the two most famous people in the world at this point. He's winning the Super Bowl. She's Taylor Swift. You get it. You know what I mean? Like, you see them kiss and stuff, and you see all the coverage of them, and it looks like, wow, look at them on top of the world living their best life. I guess I'm just saying, you know, in her own words, hmm.

Nothing good starts in a getaway car. I do wonder about the fact that like the Joe thing is just fully over. Like this was the love of her life like two seconds ago. Like maybe it doesn't feel that recent because we move on so quickly. But like for years, this was the love of her life. And now it's like,

What about the relationship that she just had for a long time? Like, are we not respecting that? Like, are we actually doing the thing where we're now in another album cycle? That's like, not even just about or inspired by that relationship, but deliberately manipulates and, and not to be like, Ooh, Taylor, you know, cause I'm excited about what's going to be created for it. I just question whether or not all of this is healthy and,

because of how big it is. I don't know if it's sustainable for a human being. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, there's nothing in the evolutionary human brain to deal with this. It's just completely overwhelming and beyond any understanding. It's really weird. We're at a really weird time.

time in the culture because I guess you could say that monoculture is back now with this like in the last like ever since they started dating I would say we've had one thing to talk about this entire time and maybe that's what the grip is on like don't let this go away we don't know when we're gonna get this back

they are being talked about like a concept and not as human beings, I guess is my thing. And ultimately like, yes, I understand all that because we talk about pop culture, et cetera. We get the way that these things get filtered down to be something that can be like applied in the discourse. But I guess what I'm noticing and what I'm trying to remember more is that they are human beings. And so like,

they're going to hit a wall on this i'm just concerned about like what happens

when people catch up with their feelings and catch up with themselves because they're operating at a 15 right now and everyone in the world is talking about them. It just gives me a little bit of pause because I think I've been through certain things now where I realize like what happens when you're operating at a high vibration and then you have to come back. And I just wonder how that feels or is going to feel for them and for the people in their life because it's,

it literally can't get more exciting than the other day. Like, that is now done. For some reason, both of their moms being there really was sobering to me. Yeah. I mean, it was sweet. It's nice. I love that, like, they were with their family. Yeah, Travis Kelsey's mom is very grounding as a presence. And I would say Taylor's mom. Taylor's parents. And so I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse about the whole situation. I'm like, well, she has... They have people who have known them for their whole lives, right?

with them to like check it against their history and their lives and

But at the same time, it seems like the current is so strong that everyone is getting swept up in it. That's what I was about to say. Those people are also operating in that environment. Yeah. You know who we have to check in with is Ice Spice. We got to check in with Ice Spice. Because I bet she has the... She's got the clear... By the way, they're saying she was the reason for the ratings. They're calling it the spicy bowl. They're saying this was the reason for... More people watched this than the moon landing. Because of Ice Spice. Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, you know, I heard that Ice Spice was staged. I heard that. Ice Spice isn't real. No, no, no. I think she's real, but I think she was in a soundstage and then in Long Island. And then they just kind of like green, like keyed her in. They put her in after. Yeah. It was all fake. It was all fake. But, you know, we're getting new music from Taylor. Can we talk about the titles really quickly of the songs? Sure.

I'm interested to see what they sound like. But some of the titles I go, you know what? Taylor is ultimately a product of the current time, which is sort of beautiful and sort of the reason for her appeal, right? But if like for songs that are like LOML, Down Bad, But Daddy I Love Him, I'm like, there's something consciously internet coded about this. And I wonder...

I wonder if it pays off because these are some big swings as far as names go, names of your songs. Whereas I think she's avoided, she's been able to sort of like operate outside of like a timeliness. And that's what makes her time less. That's what makes a lot of her music endure.

This is, I think, a departure from that. And I think, I have to imagine it's conscious. I have to imagine she made that choice. But I hope for everyone that it's like, it better be good is all I'm saying. And I'm sure it will be. I think it's going to be very good because it's Taylor Swift. If I'm to gauge something from the visuals in terms of like what I think this might sound like, you know what the visuals are giving to me? The visuals are giving to me very like,

mid-90s, like, almost adult contemporary vibes. Like, it's sort of giving me, like, Madonna bedtime stories. It's sort of giving me, like, well, I don't know. Why am I getting, like, Paula Cole from it? Like, you know what I mean? Like, a very sort of adult contemporary, like, almost, like, the way that she's, like, draped. Like, it's something mid-90s to me. It's feeling, like, Annie Lennox-y. That's the vibe I'm feeling from it. I don't know beyond that, like,

Maybe it's going to be very like, you know, lyrical and like maybe it'll feel very ballady. I don't know because the images I'm seeing are contrasting with the very contemporary titles. But yeah, it's an interesting thing to see her enter into the canon anything now because she's now she's ridden the eras thing. Yeah. So that now when she's creating

creating a new album, she's really creating a new era. And so you have to look at these visuals like a world that we're going to live in. You know what I'm saying? It's like, because that's her whole thing. And so when I'm looking at aesthetically what we're getting from this, it feels like we're getting like mature woman,

confessional songs. Maybe we hear her sing with her chest a little bit more this time. That's like just a vibe I'm getting. It's giving sort of woman of the 90s adult contemporary singer. That's what I hope for anyway. I love that. There are a couple ways for this to go in terms of the live piece, which is for now, this is what's happening is that that's going to get absorbed into the era's sort of like structure.

I'm really interested to see her for album 12, let's say. Is it still going to be the Erez tour? Or is she going to do like the album 12 tour? You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's a weird one. Also, like her music is fully going to be out when she's still doing this tour. So she has to do the new music, right? Like, is that an added era? Yeah, I think so. Wow. I think it's going to be after midnight or so. Well, like there better be closers. You know what I mean? On this album, because I think she has to end the whole show with it. That's what I'm saying. It's like she's not just putting this album out. She's putting this album out at this moment. And

in the tableau of the rest of her work. Yes. And I think that will say a lot about like where we're at exactly. You know what I mean? Like also not for nothing, but I should just trademark not for nothing as that comes out of my mouth for the fucking billionth time.

But she's also going to have a lot of other music around her that the girls are releasing. Like the new Ari will be out now. We know the new Beyonce will be out. I would imagine Dua is coming. KZ Musgraves will have an album out. There's someone else too. Tyla. Tyla, which everyone's sleeping on. Not everyone's sleeping on it. Everyone obviously knows Water, but like listen to the other songs on the album. That is a great fucking album so far.

So far. Anyway, Charlie's working on new stuff. Gaga's working on new stuff. I think 2024 is where the girls are all dumping their shit, which I have no problem with. And Katy Perry has quit American Idol and said she's, you know. What are your thoughts as a huge... Now, you have a special connection to Katy. Love Katy. I always root for Katy. Yeah.

I feel like never really over was what she should be doing. I want to hear Katie give the delicious hooks. I want to hear Katie be big and stupid. That's what I love from Katie Perry. Big and stupid. Like, what is it? Fast and loud. That's what I want from Katie Perry. To put it in the words of you and Tina Fey. Fast and loud, Katie. It always works. Hey, everyone. We here at Lost Culture East just love Philips.

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The thing I'm most excited about is Beyonce. I mean, we had been hearing about the country album. I think it feels so right. I love the way her voice sounds on this. Just to hear her little stacked harmonies and her gorgeous voice over this type of music. It's going to be so evocative. It's going to tell stories, which she's so good at. I'm so excited to see how this plays all together. I'm really thrilled that it looks like she's pretty much...

you know, visual forward, like right off the top. It feels like her approach to this is very different than the last album. It feels like if this is going to be part of a real trilogy, that's very exciting for whatever the third thing is. You know, we're living in a really, really fun time for Beyonce. And I will also say,

she looks unbelievable. Like her blonde wigs. Like, I don't know if you saw they cut to her at the game. You didn't see, you didn't watch it. I did. I saw the clips. She looked so good.

Unbelievably beautiful. And just the fact that Beyonce is going to be giving blonde country singer wearing turquoise jewelry. I go, bitch. I love it. I love it. I love it. And I loved her sort of tipping the hat, as it were, at the Grammys. She looked great. She was on a fucking 20 milligram edible. Yeah, she was on another planet in a very unsubtle look. I mean, we should have known. Yeah.

I feel like, yeah. But also, it was smarter for her to sort of build all that into the original Renaissance imagery, too, because you're not really sure. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, okay, so are you just sort of doing a version of what you've been doing for Renaissance with this, like, cowboy dance floor moment? Or are we actually entering a new era and it was squarely the latter? You know, I think if Act III is rock...

I feel like horses are that animal. Horses work in any genre. Yes, they do. And that's Rural Culture number four. Horses work in any genre. And you know, happy Lunar New Year, by the way, to everybody. Yeah, you lunatics. You lunatics. I had deep conversations about the Chinese Zodiac animals with some friends at Bubble Tea. Can you share? Well, for my horses out there,

I was talking to Matt Whitaker, our friend Matt Whitaker. He was a horse who wanted to be a dragon growing up. This is so beautiful. Doesn't it sound like a little children's book? You know, our friend, he was a horse who wanted to be a dragon. But horses, I was just ingrained from birth, from my mother who loves this, and from the Chinese culture that loves this. Like horses are a noble animal. And horses...

And horses know how to be still in between moments of movement and like action and like activation. Like horses are, I'm not a horse girl. I've had close calls on horses. I don't love interacting with them necessarily. You've had close calls on horses? Oh, yes. I've talked about Iceland. Oh, yeah. You've spoken on this. The drone, the drone spooked it. Oh, yeah, I know. I've spoken about this. But anyway, the horse imagery is,

that Beyonce is working with, I think is very special and very intentional. And I think for that to be the through line, potentially in these albums is gorgeous to me. I love it. Now let's just talk about what possibly could happen on this album.

Do you think? Raphael Sadiq? Wait, that's amazing. This is news to me. Oh, yeah. By the way, everyone, oh my God, Raphael Sadiq's old stuff, I mean, not old stuff, but just all of his work, so good. What were you going to say? What is going to happen on this album? And you were going to put out something. Oh, I was going to say, you know, will we see the return of the Pussy Wagon? Oh, yeah.

You think Gaga is going to be on this? I'm just saying Beyonce said to be continued and Gaga said to be continued and it was never continued. And you have to imagine if there's going to be a moment for that, should Joanne return? Should Joanne return?

to ride off with Beyonce into the sunset on the pussy wagon? Like, should we see, in a sense, act two of that? Ah! Well, you know, the video after Telephone that Jonas Ackerlund directed with Gaga was for John Wayne. So a lot of little monsters feel that John Wayne is the spiritual successor to Telephone.

in that she even like she's in the sort of like Million Reasons Pink get up and then like she like hitchhikes and gets into a car and then like the whole John Wayne saga starts by the way such an underrated video oh don't even get me started don't even get me started on John Wayne John Wayne is disrespected disregarded and disincluded constantly disincluded in the narrative

Guys, John Wayne is sitting right there. We're all losing our minds over Act 2 Renaissance. Listen to John Wayne and go to church. I just love John Wayne. I love John Wayne. John Wayne! You're right. The video was completely insane. When she was riding on that horse, by the way, the horse returns, and she hits that tree branch. I said comedy gold. I said bridesmaids. Bridesmaids. So I don't know about this pussy wagon return.

But that's so interesting. The girls are talking about this. I would disagree that John Wayne is the successor to telephone because they would have made it seem like it was a continuation. Like there would have been some intentionality there. The way that like the way that like the way the whole Gaga in jail thing plays at the beginning of telephone as a continuation of paparazzi.

Yeah, I just feel like we would have gotten something from it that suggests that it was a continuation of that narrative outside of just it being directed by the same person and having the same whimsy. If we're going to see an Act 2 of that, I think it's going to have Beyonce, and I think it's going to be very clear that it's the continuation of, sequel to, culmination of that story. By the way, can we talk really quickly about Gaga at the Super Bowl?

Like this past week, I just I forget that Gaga at a sports game is such a I don't give a fuck vibe. And it has been for decades at this point. Remember when she was like during like the fame monster era, she was like at Yankee Stadium, like flipping people off, like just not care. She's like, don't she loves sports. She doesn't. And she's going to kick back and she's going to wear something stupid and she's not going to care.

And I love that. We need more of that. It's rule of culture number 70. Lady Gaga loves sports. And she's going to kick back. And she's going to not going to care. Period. But like we need more of that. Like I loved seeing the stars out. But all of them were like playing for the camera in a way that like Gaga wasn't. She was like, I'm going to put on the little eye jewels that like are a reference to my Super Bowl performance, which we regret. I.

I have to take responsibility for this. I did not include in my 2017 year coverage. Take responsibility for yourself. Because no one's going to take responsibility for you. Thank you, Tyra. But Gaga at the Super Bowl loved. Okay, so what else on act two? I'm open for it. I'm just open-minded. I don't really have expectations in a way that I think is not for lack of caring. It's just that I will...

openly welcome whatever comes. Well, then there was another little rumor floating around that maybe Taylor is on this album or maybe Beyonce is a part of reputation. And I said,

I don't know about that. I had to say hmm on this one. In both directions, that doesn't make sense. Again, like this narrative that gets out there because it feels like they're the only famous people in the world. You know what I mean? Like it is exhausting. Sure. Well, let's just not contribute. Well, no, no, no. I was going to say let's not pay too much attention to it. I'm literally looking out at a mountain ridge right now.

What? Everything feels so far away. Where are you? I'm upstate, bitch. You didn't tell me that. You thought this was my room at home? I thought you were doing one of your famous vacations at like a New York hotel. No, honey. I'm in New Paltz. Are you having a moment? I'm having... So far... Well, it snowed and so I wanted to go on hikes and stuff. And, oh my God, there was a watercolor class today that got canceled because of the snow. Oh.

You were going to take a watercolor class? I was going to take a watercolor class and paint flowers. Oh, that sounds really good. And every morning you get to feed the chickens and the pigs and the sheep here. And then you get to pick the eggs that you want to eat for breakfast. Wait, that is amazing. I'm so happy for you. Oh, Bowen, that's so great. I love that. I love that you went to the woods. You went to the mountains. You're picking your eggs. I went, salt eggs.

And the rest on your... I just, like, my body immediately gave out. I was like, oh, my God. Here's what you do. Everyone, if you want to scratch this itch of, like, seems like we're getting back into, like, cabin tunes, maybe.

Go to Waxahachie now. Listen to her new song, Bored. Listen to, right back to it. Listen to her old stuff. I mean, you're going to get what you want. In the totality of Waxahachie's discography, you're going to find something you like. I guarantee it. You're going to like the way you look. My therapist said this to me. We were talking about internet discourse, right? And specifically in the way that you might

have a moment of vanity or vulnerability and like see what people are saying about you. We don't have to get too much into this, but this is what he said to me. I'm flipping to it because I wrote it down because it fucking blew my mind. In the totality of what people are thinking, you can always find what you're looking for.

Does that make sense? Not really. Can you walk like you go on Google and like see what people are saying about one person or let's say yourself or you go on Twitter and if you have a name that you can like search such as mine or yours, let's say, and see what people are saying about you.

at some point you'll find exactly what your brain secretly wants to find. Oh, I get that. Okay, so if you want to feel, if you want to punish yourself, if you look hard enough, or sometimes not even hard enough, like that can happen. Not even hard enough. Got it. Okay, so it's all about like taking the onus away from needing that search. It just means that it's all meaningless. It really is meaningless. Can we talk about...

Feud Capote versus the Swans. Yeah. I wish it was better. I don't necessarily want to talk about the show, but what I the rabbit hole that I fell into was like reading up on the journalism of it. And like they did a whole piece in 2012 in Vanity Fair about like where the manuscript is for answered prayers.

And his relationship with like Lee Radsville and Jackie Kennedy. And like, it's so interesting. That is like, that's what we're missing. This is what's happening in culture. This is what I thought about. Like, there is no distinction or difference between like high society in the way that like the rest of the culture is fascinated by these people at the top and what their behavior is and what they're doing and what their dirty secrets are.

with entertainment and like things in the pop culture because we conflate those two now in a way that we're like, oh, well, high society is, let's say, the Met Gala where all the celebrities go and like high society in the year 2024 is like,

the kardashians because we don't really like the way billionaires are acting is kind of too dark to think about and too crazy so let's just focus on like these famous people who are like very much entrenched in media and therefore there is like less of a like fascinate the fascination is just a little bit more informed as opposed to like the days of truman capote in the 60s and 70s where like

him dropping this Esquire article was like explosive. Does that make sense? Yeah, and I actually think

it's kind of showing up in the content of the series in a way that I don't think is necessarily good because I think that there's actually not that much of a feud here. I think what happened was this man befriended these women. He was awful. He wrote about them and then they never spoke to him again. And there's not a feud there. Like, and I think that like what you're saying about like the fascination of that, uh,

is, like, yes, very important, like, in the culture, and, like, it probably felt ripe, but it's actually not that... But there's not that much information. There's just not that much there, and I feel like with Betty and Joan, there was actually a genuine feud there. That stretched on for years and years. There was a lot to follow, whereas...

I almost think that feud Capote versus the Swans would be stronger if it was like Truman Capote and Babe Paley. And we just focused on one dynamic because I feel like it's over promising in saying like, you're going to watch this juicy show with all of these women when there's not that much juice there. Yes, they were all dynamic people. They were all interesting, fascinating people that had scandal, but ultimately this dynamic, which is Capote and them, like it,

at least through three episodes at this point, like it doesn't feel like there is a lot there when you compare it. Right. I think it's going to do what feud Betty versus Joan ended up doing, which was these two women really missed out on a friendship. Didn't they, you know, and I think it's going to try to do that with babe Haley and Truman Capote by the time, like when he passes away. Yeah.

Yet, I'm sure that you're right, but I wonder if it's going to be super successful because the thing about Feud, Betty and Joan, is they were able to flesh them out enough where you realize they had so much more in common than they had in terms of differences. And it was really society and the entertainment industry and their specific situation and the fascination with the idea that women must war if they're equals that tore them apart. Whereas like

I'm not seeing exactly what that parallel is with this because Truman Capote is truly just awful.

And there are so many women that are on the other side of this conflict that are not all grounded and based in the same experience with him. And so it's becoming a little bit more difficult to see exactly what the story that's being told is and exactly what the conflict is between them and him, because they're all different. And therefore, in trying to give all the women like equal time in a way,

We're losing a central conflict. Yes, I agree. I think the thing that binds these people together is, well, for Truman, I think this is hopefully, I don't think the show is making clear yet is why Truman is obsessed with these women, which is because he sees a parallel in them where he's this boy from the South

who like made his way to the top infiltrated high society much in the same way that like Holly Galightly did like Holly Galightly was written based on women like Slim Keith like Babe Bailey

Like CZ guests like and Woodward, particularly where these women from the South who came from nothing ascended all the way to the top in this very American dream way. Right. And I think that is sort of the poetic sort of powerful, narratively interesting thing that I don't think the show is really shining enough of a light on.

I have hope that it will because I think that it has to. This idea that, well, you guys did whatever you had to do to get here. I'm doing whatever I had to do. You love me because of my ability to tell stories and my ability to entertain and my ability to really key in to what your experience is. So why are you

angry at me for then using that to maintain my level, my place here and my level of notoriety when you knew that was what I do. That is like a crazy personality disorder that I think that they

you know, need to explore. But the thing is like in that third episode of the show, so Demi Moore actually, who's great in the show has this scene where she is and Woodward like comes and crashes his black and white ball and he kicks her out and it's very public and very embarrassing. And, you know, ultimately she's so outcast from society that she does take her own life. And he's, you know, really responsible for that is the argument that's being made. But,

But the thing is, he's such a cunt to her. Yeah. And the writing of that scene is also tough. I was like, he's such a fucking monster to this woman that I'm like, how moving forward are we supposed to like...

really want to understand or truly understand this person. When he's ruining these women's lives, they'd have to really do some work here in order to make him not even just sympathetic, because I know that's not the goal, but grounded in a reality. And ultimately, he was grounded in reality. He was real. So I guess I'm just...

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of the humanity of the whole thing so that I can really find the conflict and understanding and the why of this series. I'm not sure what the why of the series is. Yeah, I would recommend because I'm watching the show and I'm going, I want to dig deeper. I want more than what the show is capable of giving me at the moment.

And so I recommend just like reading up. I didn't know all this shit about. I didn't know that Aristotle Onassis was with Lee Radswell at first. Did you know this? That like Jackie basically stole Aristotle Onassis from Lee. So where's that sister? You know what I mean? Like where's Jackie and Lee? Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, let's ground this in an actual feud that is playable.

Mm hmm. Where the fallout from the conflict is not like no one talked to each other. Exactly. I mean, like we know how it ends. It ends in silence. And also the show is showing so early on that he becomes a miserable alcoholic, like spoiler alert. That is how he dies.

So we're not even getting there. We're kind of there. And even just that thing you said right there, like, I didn't know that. That's juicy. Literally, Lee was with Aristotle. They were dating. They were fucking for like a period of time while she was still married to Stas Radsville. Invites Jackie to come on this yacht that Aristotle has. The second she's on the gangplank, Aristotle's like, I want her. Yep.

I did not know that. That's completely insane and also something I'd like to watch. You know what I mean? And then you have one of these actresses playing Jackie Kennedy. You know what I mean? Not to say that all these women aren't interesting, but it's almost like the show is doing a disservice to them by treating them like one-sixth of a situation. You know what I mean? Right, right.

I mean, there's all this stuff about, there's so much reading about Babe Paley. Yeah, I mean, it's all very fascinating. And as always, reading is in a lot of ways. Fundamental. Fundamental in the more informative medium, if you want information. And I just wanted information. I was literally at dinner last night by myself and just brought my iPad with me and just like read every article there was. And I was like, I'm having a ball reading.

Yeah. Just read it. And therefore, the show ends up being very useful. But then I'm thinking as you're talking and as we're talking about this, I'm like, this show, if it's about the gay male gaze on women, that is really interesting. And the fact that he dehumanized his friends enough

to create them into characters because he knew that, you know, the average person in his mind would want to hear and devour everything that is the scandal of being these women. If he was thinking them as primarily fodder and scandal before they were human beings, because that was his sick gay male gaze on women, something they talk about in the first episode or second episode, like,

you know, this is the way gay men think about us. They think about us like this, this, this, like that is really interesting. You know what I mean? That there's something there because I think there's something very true about that, that gay men in idol worship participate in. Like it doesn't always happen with super famous people. It happens with the women in gay men's lives. Like sometimes I hear the way that gay men talk about women and I'm like, wow, she is not a person to you.

And it happens a lot during the Oscar race. And it happens a lot during like times like this when like women are, you know, out here as these like

and things and ideas. Like there is a humanity that gets lost, which sort of ties it back to the Taylor of it all, where you do have to remember that these people are human beings. And if that is something that we're going to arrive at in feud, then I think it's really interesting. And I'm really excited to get there about how he lost permanence on this situation and on humanity because he was too, uh,

Gay. Not too gay. Period. End of sentence. You are a humanist icon down. You are a true humanist. Got it from my mama. Got it from my mama. On my mama. I got it from my mama. Congrats, Victoria. Congrats, Victoria.

really quickly. There is a truth to that, to the gay male gaze. And I think the reflection on that is something. And another Lee Radswell thing, which I think Calista Flockhart is good casting for her. I think she's great. But that aside, I was reading up on Lee's relationship with Truman because she wasn't terribly pissed off at him after the Esquire article after Cote Basque. But Truman asked her to

speak on his behalf in a deposition when Gore Vidal sued Truman Capote in like, I think the 70s or 80s because Truman was out here running his mouth, lying to people saying that Gore Vidal was thrown out of a Kennedy White House dinner and Gore Vidal was like, I'm suing you for slander.

And so Truman was desperate. He was like, can we please get Lee to say to, she was there, can we please get Lee to say something in my favor? Lee refused. And then forget who it was, but like someone was like, but Lee, why won't you get involved in this situation? Like you could really help change this. And then Lee Radswell allegedly says, oh, whatever. They're just two fags anyway. Just let them do their thing. And so like it goes both ways. And that is an interesting thing where they're like,

However, dehumanizing the gay male gaze is like it is refracted and reflected the other direction as well. I would love a show about that. Would love that. And like maybe it will get there. You know, maybe it will. Because also another thing is like, was there dismissal of him in some way?

homophobic you know what I mean like I don't know because like he genuinely was that awful but like there is some as I watch the show I'm like it is so interesting he's like very foppish he's very feminine he's presenting in this way and like he is sort of like this like jester and

So in a way, it wasn't like he was being super respected. He was a prop in all of these women's lives in many ways. Like, you know, they can use language like that. They go home to their husbands, not to say he wasn't in a relationship because we see that he was. But there's something there, too. There's something in the fact that, you know, homophobia was rampant at the time. And, you know, he was not looked at like a.

a real member of that society if he didn't have these, like, you know, trades, like conversation and gossip. Well, his whole defense in the years after the article was that, like, well, what do these women think? I'm a writer. I'm not there to just entertain them. I'm observing and I'm using this stuff. And I'm like, that is interesting. You don't know if you fully agree with that, but also...

I do see that as a pushback on him being, him feeling the perception that he was just the court jester. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I just think that the story of Truman Capote is incredibly, incredibly interesting.

like really fell down that hole in a way that I didn't expect. Well, have you ever read In Cold Blood? I've never read it. You should. I mean, it is as good as everyone says. Like it is so, it really started true crime, to be honest. Like if you can really trace the, like the lineage of that genre to that. And I think I just remember some, he really was an incredible writer. And, um,

The interesting stuff that comes after Capote when he's done this like masterwork and then has to decide what to do next is sort of what led directly to this situation. And so it's almost best told altogether. And I believe the best.

depiction of that is probably in the movie infamous not even in the movie Capote but those are both really interesting because this period was very fascinating and it writing in cold blood did take so much from him and I almost feel like there's some threads there that aren't being connected in this yet but again I have I have hope I'm sure they'll do because his relationship with that murderer was very interesting and special

And I think that had a very dark effect on him because he watched him getting hanged. Yes, he did. And so that is something like... Hickok, Dick Hickok. No, there was Perry and Dick. So Perry was the one he was, you know, some people think maybe even in love with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have to do something with that in the show. Yeah, again, like if they're going to, they have to also juggle the fact that they've got a lot of fucking characters. That's another thing is it's just like,

There's only so much real estate to tell those stories, but also they're not being told yet. Like this third episode, which is entirely like, it's like a creative swing they take where it's like a documentary about the black and white ball. That was never actually made. Yeah. Right. And then I was like, wait, so he actually did film this. And I guess, is this based on actual footage or is this all conjecture? There was no documentary that followed him around. There was no crew that followed him around, but like the ball obviously happened. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, Ann Woodward did not show up. Right, so that's entirely... I mean, and again, like, I thought that scene was, like, juicy and great because Demi got to sort of tear. But, I mean, I don't know. Are people watching this? Like, as we're talking about this, I genuinely ask our audience, are people watching this? Are you guys watching, Fyod? I think they're doing a good, like...

cross promotion on like for some reason like diet Prada posts about it and I'm like okay work like they really know their audience they're like let's let's send it up to all the fucking faggot Instagram accounts where everyone gets their news where everyone gets their news yeah there you go

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Actually, no. I have my I Don't Think So, Honey. Okay. Yeah. Should we do it? Should we move in? Should we get into it? Let's move into it. Yeah. This is I Don't Think So, Honey. This is where we take one minute to really rail against something in culture. Matt has, Matt sort of lit up. I wish you could see over the Zoom. There's a twinkle in Matt's eye. Twinkle. Twinkle. I think we're about to hear why. This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So, Honey. His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, trying to watch Traders U.S. after having watched Traders Australia. I actually have to say this has been done at a 10 out of 10, and luckily you can watch it. It is Traders Australia because we have everyone in the room is playing at full capability, whereas now I'm starting to see, after watching this game played really, really well, that the current Traders U.S. cast is,

is not giving that level of competitive mastery of this particular game. Now I'm starting to think, should we maybe go back to an all normie cast, but we just cast it really, really well. I think what didn't work about the first season is it was half and half.

And what's starting to not work about the second season is you get the sense that not everyone is there with a full knowledge and necessarily even intent to play this game to its fullest. It's kind of just like reality TV stars doing reality TV star, which is fun. But is it competitive? And is it compelling? I don't know. I don't think so, honey, but I, of course I do. And that's one minute. I totally get it because I'm interested to hear your ranking, but I'm finally finishing up traders UK season one.

And I would say great season of all normies. And they were all not operating at like top of their intelligence and competitiveness, but they were all like pretty with it. And they were like, they had their rationale for everything. And I really enjoyed that part. It does seem like this season of traders, which we love, is like,

You go, well, why are Kevin and MJ there? Like, what are they bringing? And the thing is, like, it's just hard to compare them because I'm telling you, you guys, watch...

Traders Australia on Peacock. What's your ranking of the seasons? Oh, Traders Australia is one of the best. The one that they have on Peacock is one of the best reality seasons I've ever seen. Okay. It is so satisfying. It is so compelling to watch. Every minute it gets better. It's just so good. Whereas Traders US, I'm kind of like...

I feel like we could be watching something a little bit more compelling if we had people that were a little bit more knowledgeable and just a little bit more ahead of how this game is played. Where does UK1 land in the ranking? I would say Australia is number one, at least the one I've seen. Then...

Then I would give it to U.S. Season 2. Then I would give it to U.K. Season 1. And at the bottom is U.S. Traitor Season 1. And that's not talking shit about it. It's just that I think we were working the kinks out with the way that it was cast. So you think that so far U.S. 2 is better than U.K. 1? Yeah, I do. Just because at that level, that's where the reality TV...

start of it all pays off. I mean, like, I mean, we do have Parvati and Phaedra. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, that is pretty fucking epic. And there's so much fun in that. But just if what you want to see is a really competitive game of traitors be played, you're not getting that on US season two the way you're getting it on the Australian version. And you will be happy that you took me up on this if you stream it. UK two apparently was one of the biggest ratings hits in the UK. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know about ever, but it was a huge, huge success and people loved it. Yeah, which is funny because Australian Trader Season 2 apparently flopped. Oh, really? Yes. And it actually wasn't even renewed in Australia. Oh, yeah. Tragic. I know. Well, something about... Joel Kimbooster was telling me that Australia, the casting is Normies, but they all have kind of crazy... One of them is like...

the first person to like

murder someone? The first person to murder someone. No, never. It was the first ever murderer. What it is is one of the people on Traders was the longest held hostage in Australian history. Oh, the hostage. That's what it is. And now he's a hostage negotiator and you'll see how that plays out. But another one is a psychic clairvoyant named Clea. What?

I love it. There's just so many...

characters like stars on the show and like you didn't need for one second any of them to be famous you know what I mean like and I think that there's something that's so great about you know when you see on the outset the cast of US season 2 of Traders but then it's like inevitably they do get eliminated you know the people that you were super excited about like aren't there anymore which is always the risk you run on an all-star cast it's like okay well you're gonna run out of like

Your faves. And so now we're fucking watching Kevin. Like, we're watching a lot of Kevin. You know what I'm saying? We're watching a lot of

MJ. Peter. You know what I mean? And I'm like, here's my thing. It's like, you watch Australian Traders and then you watch the season of US and you realize Peter's not going to win. Like, he's actually playing bad. What's not fun, and again, we love this show more than life. Obsessed. The second it's out. My thing about Peter and Trishel is that like,

God, they're so hard to root for. God, you really don't care. You know what I mean? That is so true. And that is more on not the casting. It's just more on like the way these people who have been on TV before think they know how to like get ahead of the editors. I don't know. It's like I would rather just see people who were clairvoyants, hostages, like people with like

compelling lives really, really play. Well, that's very interesting. Can you imagine rooting for Peter? Like, I don't know. Maybe it's the Bachelorette. I'm not rooting for anyone from the Bachelorette. I'm not rooting for the Bachelor to win anything.

Let's not. I'm still rooting for Parvati. Feels like she's way too much of a corner. I think days are numbered for our girl. Phaedra's still a lot of fun. Go, Sandra, go. Sandra doing the pool table math, I loved. I lived. Yeah. I love activated Sandra. I mean, it's the best. I love activated Sandra. So, Bowen Yang, do you have an I Don't Think So Honey? I do. All right. This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So Honey, and his time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey...

performers who miss their center mark on an LED floor, such as Usher, such as, I'm sorry, Beyonce sometimes, who has had a history of missing her mark when the floor is a screen. I can't believe you. Taylor is kind of better at it than a lot of people, but you know who nailed it? It was her at the Super Bowl. Her knew where to land. And

Can we just set a mark for these people? They deserve just a little mini mark that like we at home can't see, but just something that lets them know to land at the right spot so that it looks like there's ripples coming out of them. So that it looks like they are stuck in the outline of their body. Let's deliver on the promise of the premise.

Let's make sure these people are set up for success. I want them to have the best night of their lives performing while they're walking around stomping on a screen floor. Or LEDs, give the technology so that they know where to land. And that's one minute. Well, first of all, I want to say the episode title is The Promise of the Premise. And...

I just I go back to my central theme for this episode, which is humanity. These people are humans. They can't just hit every mark because you say about Yang. I'm not. I don't think so. Honey, it's not on them. It's on the production of it all. It's on the people who are like, let's set a mark for Usher. Let's set a mark for these people to know where they land. I'm not blaming Beyonce for missing where she was supposed to lay down and pose. Mm hmm.

I'm saying. But you did say with your chest. Taylor's a little bit better at it. You said that with your chest. As a point of comparison. You need to let go of say that with your chest, by the way. You're saying. Say it with your chest. Everyone turns off the pod. No. Everyone, you should be so lucky to hear Matt Rogers sing.

Who cares? Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. People need to be hitting their marks. It's the biggest thing. We need to set marks better. How are you with hitting marks? It's hard. I don't deny that it's very difficult. Yeah. But if you're dancing, you can peep at the floor. Like...

I think Usher should be at the center of the concentric circles. That's all I'm saying. And that I'm going to put that on the team that goes, we're using an LED floor. We're going to do all this shit and make it look cool. We'll then make it look cool. Make sure the person is in the right spot. And that's on the team. I'm just blaming it on the production. And that's not even towards people. That's towards the idea. That's towards the checklist that's being made.

Put that on the checklist. Put it on the checklist. And I'm sort of over here being like, God, human beings, they miss marks. Who cares? I'm understanding concerned queen. I'm understanding concerned queen too, but I think if we want to deliver on the promise of the premise, then we should set the mark. Girl, is the promise of your premise that you're going to go frolic in the mountains right now? It's cold. It's snowy. I'm going to read. I'm going to eat a burger. I'm going to do some writing. That's beautiful.

I'm going to hike tomorrow. Okay. Well, this has been an episode that fully delivered on the promise of the premise of this podcast, which is culture and laughter and friendship. Because I never for one second during this podcast had any doubt that I was talking to my best girl. Me neither. We end every episode with a song. Sing Texas! Ain't no hold up!

down, down, down, down, down. Her low notes. I said, you better. You better. Bye.

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All opinions are their own and not a guarantee of a similar outcome. MITRE's mission is to solve problems for a safer world. If you have a passion for applied cybersecurity with skills in infrastructure threat intelligence, deterrence technologies, advisal threat emulation, or intelligence analysis, explore the many challenging and fulfilling career opportunities at MITRE.org slash careers. That's M-I-T-R-E dot org slash careers.

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