"The Twins Are Fighting Again" (w/ Matt & Bowen)
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Look, man. Oh, I see. Bowen, look over there. Is that culture? Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling.

Bowen and I are in conflict. We're not tactile, even though we could be. No, please. Oh, how could I resist? I can't stay mad at you. No matter how hard I try. How are you feeling after the Super Bowl? I missed a lot of it, but I am a little bit rattled.

Why? What happened that rattles you? It's crazy. I'm not to talk politics, but it's crazy that like, yeah, our president is going after yet another pop star. It's like, he loves it. He loves to, of course, with pop stars and awards bodies. Like I said, as if they're individuals and yeah, he gets off on it. So how many times has he tweeted about Taylor? God,

A lot. I'm not keeping track of it on Twitter or on Truth. I just know that like he's reveling in it. And like, God, if you could go back to 2009 and be like, go to the VMAs and be like, Taylor, this is what's going to happen to you. Like, yay. Sorry, dead named Kanye. There, I did it again. You're going to buy out an ad at the dentist saying,

To go to Yeezy.com. Did you end up seeing it? No. So for people that don't know, there was this insane Kanye ad that he had bought. It was just him like really out of it, like telling people to go to Yeezy.com. I have to say, like, does he still sell clothes? Is that still his thing? I'm not sure. I don't even know what his deal is anymore. I'm just afraid of it. Hey guys, this is Matt. I just wanted to jump on here very quickly and say that this episode was recorded yesterday.

before we found out what Kanye West was selling on his website. Obviously, Bowen and I had no interest in actually logging on to Yeezy.com. And so it wasn't until much later, a couple of days later, that we found out what exactly he was selling, which was t-shirts with swastikas on them. So that's...

obviously fucking insane. And our sentiment as always is fuck Kanye West. And I just wanted to make sure that we made that totally clear so that you didn't think we were being glib or dismissing the situation as like anything other than what it is, which is fucking disgusting. So back to the episode, just wanted to jump on and clear the air. Bye. Something broke. The way that Sarah Sherman talked about David Lynch and how he used the atom bomb as a way of

talking about humanity being broken and shattering. Like, there's something shattered culturally when... I think when that moment happened. What, the VMAs? Yeah. Yeah. That's the origin point. Yeah. For so much of what's happening now. Yep. For, like, this brook to diverge in the wood. Ooh.

In this way. You know what I mean? Like that was a very fateful night. You have so much clarity. No, I don't. I can only call it post-nut clarity. No. Because I know you got the nut yesterday. How do you know? You told me so. We are not going to do this. So this was what we were in conflict about before the episode started. Bowen just no longer wants to discuss his personal sexual exploits on the podcast. I'm happy to discuss them. Even though he's a pig in shit.

He is rolling around like a pig in shit. He's like, Tate, it's okay. I'm okay. Like imagine like Bowen just, and it's cocks all around. It's okay. I'm okay. He's turning down the cock. He's like, it's okay. I'm okay. Cause he's so inundated. Well, you know the origin of that phrase. What? She was in the studio.

And they were like, you know, it's around mealtime. Like, let's order some food. Like, Tate, do you want anything? And she kept saying, it's okay, I'm okay. Really? Because she wanted to keep working. Because she wanted to keep working. She is, this is the thing. This is someone who holds all three of her titles very seriously. Equally seriously. Singer, songwriter, dancer. Yes. Nothing takes over. It's a very well-balanced group.

you know, triangle, a plane as it were. And Tate McRae will be on the podcast in two weeks. We're very excited. And what you just did right there was amazing for two reasons. One, it provided new information about Tate that I didn't know. And then two, I deflected. And two, it was a misdirect. It was a redirect. It was a deflection and a projection. Okay, when was the last time you talked about your sexploits? I actually have an announcement. I'm no longer bringing my sexploits and personal life to this podcast because I am genuinely out here dating again. And so I don't want anyone to know

How I... Like, I don't want to say one thing and then someone think it's about them. Right. No, I've had that happen recently. I've had that happen recently. I was on our good friend's cat's podcast, The Treatment.

and was talking about someone and then another person thought that I was talking about them. Oop. Amelia Bedelia vibes. It's Amelia Bedelia vibes. It's like in Sister, Sister when they would both, when they would have to switch. I got my own mind. I do my own stuff in my own time. Yes. Just like Sister, Sister.

Should we reboot? Yes. That actually should be our show. It's a sister-sister reboot with us. We're twins. We're twins. And the conceit is no one can tell us apart because we're twins. Well, you know, this is an interesting glimpse. Of course, Matt and I wrote a show for Ars Nova. Oh, yes. And Fest called Night Soap. But it was originally something else. It was originally called, and this was conceived back in college. We were like,

We were just on some different shit back then because Matt came up with the title, The Twins Are Fighting Again, a gay fantasia with themes. A gay fantasia with themes. With themes, where we did play twins. And then we did end up, like we always wanted for the show to end in a space battle, which ended up being the thing that carried over into Night Soap. You know that I still have notebooks. Yes.

full of like plot ideas and joke ideas and twists for our show. The twins are fighting again. Really? Yes. I think it's worth fighting again is title of app. The twins are fighting. Wow. So we eventually did create media. That was the twins are fighting again, which was this podcast or you mean night soap? I'm just saying it ultimately we did it because we will release this episode. It will be called the twins are fighting again with Matt and Bowen.

So don't let anyone tell you it's not possible that you're kind of half-baked idea can't come through later. It can show up in any form. It can show up in any form. Yeah. But we didn't end up doing it. We did Night Soap, which maybe Night Soap will see the light of day. I still believe in Night Soap. Oh, I love Night Soap. I'm so proud of Night Soap. As some sort of...

I'm really proud of Night Sub because we tore. Not only did we tear, but we really gagged the girls with a plot twist at the end. You know, I almost died that night.

What do you mean? Okay, no, it wasn't that night. It was for your... You did another show at Ars Nova. Yes. And I did... So there was a time in my life, there was... What would you call this? Like an eight to 10 month period of my life during Pop Roulette and that time where I was doing death drops on stage. Yes. You were doing a lot of... And you were very good, but...

Yeah, describe it. I was doing full leaps into the air, like no training, just me visualizing in my head and watching Drag Race how it should be and allowing myself to fall on the ground. This was my entire late 20s. And during that, I forget what it was. You were doing some... I was doing... Yeah, I forget. Was it Showgasm or something? It was Showgasm, yeah. You were hosting something or performing some one-person show. And I...

I came out and did a death drop. And afterwards, I was told that my neck almost Hillary Swank million dollar baby on a chair. Can you imagine? Matt. Oh, my God. I'm so sad even thinking about that. It would have been really awful.

had I Hillary swank million dollar baby because I thought, let me do a death drop. Imagine explaining that to my parents. You would have to have done it. I would have had to have done it. I would have been in a police outfit for some reason. That's how you see yourself? In a police outfit? I just imagine being in a quote unquote police outfit, knocking at your parents' door, telling them that their son had passed away. Okay, let's act it out. I'm Katrina.

Oh my God. Richie, it's Bowen. Hi, what are you doing here? You look so cute. Miss Rogers, I'm... Miss Rogers? Are you... My name is Officer Yang and... What's happened? Oh no, I don't like this at all. Your son was doing...

A showgasm was a guest on a... I don't understand. On a showgasm show. What's that? I don't know showgasm. It's at Ars Nova, which is this... I don't like this title. Really... Oh, it's a play on the words orgasm and show. Well, I understood that part. Yeah.

Well, so what happened? How was the show? It was mid. It was a mid show. What's mid? Well, oh, sorry. So in about 10 years, that's going to be a term that people use. Oh, so sort of in the middle, sort of not so good, not so bad. Mediocre. Well, you know, you do lots of great shows, but we love coming to the shows.

Sorry, Mr. Rogers. In this moment, I am... Katrina. You've always called me Katrina. For some reason, I've taken it upon myself to be a police officer. Yeah, this is new for you, but I support you. We love the police. My mom doesn't say... I don't know how my mom feels about the police. Back in. Your son... Matt. Did a death drop. Oh, no. And he recently $1 million babied his head on a chair. Won the boxing match? Yes.

I only saw the first 45 minutes of that movie and fell asleep. What happens at the end? Is your husband around? Can I come in? Yeah, of course. Come in. And see. Oh, man. You are so embodied in Katrina. I know her better than she fucking was herself. Oh, my God. Do you feel, I feel like you, you are that way with me sometimes. You know me better than I know me. I, here's what I'll say. I know your energy sometimes without even being in the room. I literally know exactly how you feel at all times.

I know. Yes, I usually have like some sense of what the temperature is at all times. So like whether you're okay, you're okay or not.

Not. Like, what was the last time you tried to like really channel into like my... I mean, I literally walked in today, looked at you and said, what's the matter? No, that's a whole separate thing. It is a whole separate thing. I was having a conversation with... Engineer Doug. Engineer Doug. And we were talking about something heavy. And I come in the room and I saw... I don't even know how to describe it. There is almost like a... It's like a resigned yearning. It's like... Oh...

I said, what's the matter? No, I was listening to the conversation. I was listening to your conversation as you guys walked in. Because it was dovetailing on a conversation that I was having with Engineer Doug as well about the same heavy topic. Yes. Yes. We're dancing around this. It's not anything bad. It's just, it's a thing that, you know. No, it's something bad. It is. Right. It's something bad. It's just not something that should be. Do you mind if we share? Like, okay, so Doug experienced this.

Lots of pain because of the fires. His neighborhood has taken quite the beating. And we're thinking of him and we were just checking in with him. And again, reaching out to everyone out there who... It's so odd sometimes when I feel like the world moves on. You know what I mean? I can't stop thinking about this. Yeah. Like, it's like, I remember when I was little, like, my grandfather passed away when I was 12. And I remember I had this moment where it was like mid-November. It was cold on Long Island. Yeah.

And we were at the funeral and we get in the car and we turned on the car. And I remember like so loudly, like pop music started playing from the FM radio. And I was like, it's so crazy that the rest of the world is still listening to pop music. And like, you know, it's going to be a sunny day today or it's going to continue. Like the world's going to keep going in this way, despite this tragedy. And I can't.

imagine how it must feel to have the entire world pivot and like send you condolences and like obviously it's been a lasting topic in the news because it's such a tragedy and so much has befallen that region but the moment where it feels like everyone else moves on or the world keeps turning of course it must but it's still well it just makes it impossible to go between like feeling this interior kind of like

mourning and loss and how do you cope with that from within and then try to engage with the world in a way that isn't totally devastating because it's like, oh, the world does spin on and you're like,

What does this mean? I wish I could specifically remember what song it was that was playing. Because you know it was dumb. What year was this? It was 2002. So let's think about November 2002. Are we that good at culture? I'm going to say Ashanti. Foolish. Foolish? No, I hope it was. Oh, that's a great song. I feel like if it was Ashanti Foolish, which by the way, is a great song. Is that on the Great Global Songbook? I don't think it is. I don't think it is. We might have to do a new list.

That might be nominated. What? Foolish by Ashanti might be nominated. Wow. I don't know in what category, but it might be nominated for the Culture Awards. We have to... Some days are cold without you. I'm hurting while I'm with you.

And then my heart can take no more I keep on running back to you Wow. I mean, we can't officially say it's nominated yet because there are meetings involved. No, there's so much meetings involved. Now more than ever, there's meetings involved. There's meetings involved. Let's just say the Culture Awards. There's meetings involved. There's meetings involved. That's all we can say. Why are we multimedia?

Because this is what you are pushed to do these days. You have to be multimedia. I didn't ask to write a book, but they asked us. How did that go? Did we ask to write it or did they ask us? I think we always wanted to do Rules of Culture. We always wanted to write Rules of Culture. Absolutely.

I, I'm cooked. And so I don't think I could write like, I'm like rules of culture is the perfect book project for me and us, but I'm saying my brain because I don't think I could write down a single thing.

thought or depiction of my experience in like a memoir form. If I were to ever gun to my head, have to do that. You literally could. But I, at the same time, I do think it's good that we're sort of entering the book space with like not training wheels, but we get to do it together. Yes. And we get to do this thing. That's going to have like such a fun container. Yes. And so it's practice for your incredible revelatory experience.

Searing. Trenchant. Trenchant. Provocative. Sexual. At times, if you ever open up, because here I am trying to get you to open up about your goddamn sexual exploits, but it's like trying to milk a stone. Is that an expression? I think so.

It's actually rule of culture number 88. Trying to milk a stone is a real expression. That's that real expression. Like I was talking to my girl the other day and I was trying to find out what we were doing this weekend and it was like trying to milk a stone. Yeah.

Wait, I get what you're saying. Should the episode, should title of that be to milk a stone instead of the twins are fighting again to milk a stone. Well, okay. Now we're, we're giving too much shine on to milk a stone. You know what I wish we could do? What? Have the readers vote for this title. I know. But we can't because that's not, it's not going to work. Logistically, logistically, it doesn't make sense. I get so frustrated when there are chronological or logistical limits. Yeah. I,

I've been like that since I was little. What was the first time travel narrative? Back to the future, I guess. Certainly back to the future. Which, if they ever come to me and ask for my letterboxd. Yeah, that's up there. I'm saying four words. Back to the future. You see me have to check that it was four? Oh, I would have had to check. We all have to check sometimes. Thank you for that.

So Back to the Future is a great film. 1985 released. Yes. Who knew that they would know so much about how the future would go? Flying cars. Yes. Actually, if you watch that movie, if you watch Back to the Future Part 2 again, it's actually kind of freaky. Because what's-his-face is president? Because Biff turns into Trump and then he becomes president. Right, right, right. The world's destitute. I'm like... Tell me what you're like. How... Tell me what you're like. How do these people who make...

and make up fictional things, sometimes they do know. -Well, it's actually not-- -They do know what's gonna happen. -It's not that hard to think, like,

I don't know. All I keep thinking about these days is Final Fantasy VII. I'm like, how did they know? What happens in that? It's these people become eco-terrorists because the government is literally a corporation and that's what's happening now. Sorry. It's like our entire government is now being bought by private equity in a sense. It's crazy. Like the concept of like a national border is not going to be a thing very soon. It's like, it's just going to be a big corporation. And that's literally the plot of Final Fantasy VII. This energy company called Shinra is,

is sucking the planet's life energy dry, and you are a band of eco-terrorists trying to stop Shinra, but then you have to stop this insane super warrior named Sephiroth who wants to destroy the planet. Oh, I've heard about Sephiroth. You've brought her up before, and I did not like her at all. Well, because I told you that she was voiced by Lance Bass in Kingdom Hearts. Now... Okay. Okay.

- Are we saying she as in like referring to Sephiroth as like a big bad gay guy? - No, Sephiroth is, well, Sephiroth could be read as queer for sure. - Seriously? - There's no like romantic interest. Like Sephiroth is not romantic. Like in a way Sephiroth is like an ace kid. - Do you think that if they did Sephiroth's backstory and we find out that actually Sephiroth was queer and maybe it was not so easy?

Growing up? That he would be a sympathetic character? That you would eventually gain sympathy for Sephiroth? Oh, you... And understand, maybe? You do have sympathy for Sephiroth in the story, I will say. Because he is... He starts out being this heroic...

warrior that Cloud Strife idolizes and the whole world idolizes really. It's Sephiroth. He is a great, a warrior of great renown. But then he learns of his origins that he was created by having allegedly, well, it's so complicated, but he discovers that he was quote unquote created by having the cells of this alien creature named Jenova injected into this woman named Lucretia.

And he has a psychotic breakdown because he's like, well, Jenova is my mother and I have to destroy the planet because, you know, Jenova wants to... It's so complicated. So a lot about family lineage and what is expected of you clouding the judgment. Absolutely. Do you believe that if Sephiroth could have just been a normal gay guy, that he would have been happier? I don't think Japanese... So it's a Japanese game. Japanese culture has never...

not fully grappled with queerness in the way that Western culture has, and that's not a knock on it. So I'm doing a lot of conjecture. No, I think you're asking such important questions. And I think it would be a better game if there was an explicit queer narrative put in. So what you're saying is you think that if Japanese culture was only at the place that American culture is at, like if they had really grappled with queerness and they could have injected that

into the story of Seferoth, that we as a world's culture could understand Seferoth more, and therefore we might have more of a sympathy for him. - Perhaps, and I will say, and I do want to walk back something and say that it's not that there's a notion of catching up, that Japan has to catch up to Western culture in terms of queerness. In many ways, they've been pioneers. Of course, there's the Sailor Stars, there's a huge,

very trenchant trans narrative in that. It's this boy band, when they turn into the Sailor Stars, they turn into women. So we could learn from Japanese culture about how to respect queer people. Always. You think that we should do more like they do. And I would encourage you to go visit the nation of Japan. You know I want to go. I know you do. Well, after you came back and had such a wonderful time, I thought, that's the next spot for me.

I thought, let's go to Tokyo. What would you want to do in Tokyo? I think you will have a very Stefani-esque, Gwen Stefani-esque sort of journey there. You will visit Harajuku. And then I come back even more problematic. When have you ever been problematic? I ask this genuinely. Truly, I'm like... When have I ever been problematic? Probably in the ways normal white gay men are.

In the ways that everybody is. Yeah, but let's just say it. Like, problematic. I don't actually want to explore this. Well, you brought it up. No, I'm... You tried to burn me on this episode. That's what you did. You came in here and you said, I'm going to get him. Once and for all. You've been so... Combative. Combative. We had a Microsoft Teams meeting this morning and...

Matt was in the middle of this. It was like 20 people and Matt was in the middle of this great run. And I just wanted to quickly add something in. And then Matt, you know, in a very interesting way said, don't let me finish. I wasn't talking to you. Someone else was trying to talk. No, you were talking to me. No, it wasn't. I'm telling you, I can't say the person's name, but someone, someone there was like, and I felt them do that. And that was what that was. What was the word choice? Exactly. It was, don't do this. Let me finish. It was,

I think it was, I think, I think what I said to this other person was just one second. Just one second is really charged. Just one second. When you know it's not going to be just one second. Excuse me. What was it? Six seconds. First of all, now it wasn't you that I was doing that to, but now I'm pissed.

- You tried to cut me off during Microsoft Teams meetings. - First of all, well, this is my own thing, so honey. - Oh, what? - Oh, no, no, not you. Just the platform. - Oh, Microsoft Teams? - I don't understand. No, we need to save it. It is actually, I came in with this in the pocket. - I'm happy that you did. I didn't have anything today. Life's been so good. Everything's been great.

You look great in this cardigan, by the way. Thank you. This is one of my favorite things. It's from Corridor. I love Corridor. Yeah, I really like them. They're really good. Oh, look, but I've buttoned it incorrectly. That's okay. Oh, you know that horrible feeling? It's whimsical. Nope, never mind. No, it looks even. No, it's good. It's even. You know what Corridor's good at? Knits? Sweaters. Knits, sweaters, flannels. Gay and straight can wear. Yes. In fact, sometimes you go in there and...

I can only describe the atmosphere from people that work there as super friendly straight guys. And you leave being like, we're going to be all right. We're going to be all right. Yeah, I do leave corridor thinking, God, I mean, if we could all just come together at corridor. Yeah. You know, who's a straight guy that I actually it's worked on me.

You know what I'm going to say. Remind me. Dylan Efron from the traders. Oh, we love Dylan. I love the vibe. I love. It's just a sweet boy. You see that one picture of this floating around online about him with his booty in the air.

Oh, yeah, sure. We should literally put it up on the back wall and just have that be the thing for Las Kosh. Doug, can you look up Dylan Efron booty in the air? Yeah, and then show your wife your Google search history later. Dylan Efron ass in air. He's in the water or something. You got to look it up. Oh, I've seen this picture. It's very Tate McCray coded. Very Tate McCray coded. I'm excited to truly finally see what she looks like.

Tate? Tate. Because, you know, on Iconic 400, we were singing her praises, but my bit back then was, she's just moving around so much. Hold still, we want to see your beautiful face. We want to see your beautiful face. And of course, this is all unjust. We love Tate. And she's a beautiful girl. And she does have a history of sitting still and being still. We're about to have a conversation with her. Yes. Sing a little something for us, Tate McRae. I just want you to.

This is a bop. It's a great song. How you doing over there with that gay search? I got it. You got it? What do you think? All right, now put it up here. Now I know it has to be a certain frame rate or something. Frame rate. We're going to look at this, whatever it is, frame rate. You can't get it up there. You can't get it up here? You can't get it up. I've...

It's on the drive. Then bring your computer over here. Next time we will have it. We'll just show it to the camera. We're just going to show it to the camera. Okay, so this is the sort of famous picture of Dylan Efron now. I'm going to zoom in. Hey, Jordan, zoom in on this. All right, so this is what we're giving.

This is good stuff. Now, why would that man do that if he wasn't trying to tease and... I'm okay with it. And bait a little. Well, you know, he looks like a skilled boy. This is back arch culture. I mean, this is a great picture. This is an amazing photo. There's such a confidence in that picture.

Yeah. That it makes you wonder. And it's not like a, this is not a panic situation. It's just like, embrace it. The eyes are locked on the camera too. The eyes are National Geographic eyes. For sure. You can only describe this as Tate McCray coded. Of course. It's actually rule of culture number 90. You can only describe this picture of Dylan Efron as Tate McCray coded. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Doug. We'll return the laptop to you. I'm not ready to give it up. Oh, give it up. This is great.

By the way, there was that one scene of...

He comes over to take it. I say no. No. There was that one scene of Dylan Efron and Tom Sandoval walking up when they were in like... Oh, when they were a couple, yeah. Spoiler alert for traitors. There's a duo challenge and Tom Sandoval and Dylan Efron are a duo in the challenge. And they're like a married couple. They're both dressed up. It got you? It worked on me, unfortunately. The redemption of Tom Sandoval. No, there's no redemption. There's no light in that man's eyes. No, I...

The redemption is not working on me. I'm still, oh, please about Tom. But I will say when I watched him and Dylan Efron walked down the aisle together, I

I had thoughts. Well, that was just the idea of two men walking down the aisle. Am I that horny? No, I've been, okay, I'm about to get vulnerable. Let's go. That's what I've been wanting from you. This is the vulnerability the judges have been looking for. But this is maybe what you're getting at, which is sometimes I can just kind of get there by just thinking about the idea of two men kissing.

I will say this. Does that make sense? Yes. I would rather watch men make out than do anything else. Do all this other stuff they're doing to each other. Than go to war.

I would so much... Can I say? I agree with you. I'd rather... I would so much rather watch men kiss than go to war. Whoever did that mural in Berlin of whatever, was it like Henry Kissinger and Gorbachev making out or whatever that Berlin mural is? They should have just done that. They should have just done that. Can I say something about these warmongers? They would love gay sex. Gay.

Like, it's so fun. And once you get over the hill of like the pain or whatever, like you're going to love the way you look. I guarantee it. This is my thing. Not to talk about.

the gender binary too much. But I think... Of course, never. We were talking... I was asking about Jalen Hurts last night during the Super Bowl. And one of our friends there was saying how he has like an all-female team, basically. Love that. Manager, publicist, whatever, all women. And like he was asked about that. And he was like, yeah, I was raised by a strong mother and women are just better at their jobs and they're just better people. And I was like, see...

This is the thing. And I thought, oh, sure. Like, cause an all male team would be like just all so much energy, so much like pent up something where I'm like, I mean, not to say gay guys don't have their problems, but you are, there is a nice release of the valve. Well, they're constantly releasing valves. Yeah. Not even necessarily on the weekend. Sometimes it happens Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Am I gay guys or straight guys? Can I say I released the valve on Friday day.

That's great. My new thing is I love a daytime weekday hookup. And I understand a lot of people work their nine to fives, but for those who have alternative schedules, talking to all my gay podcasters out there, daytime hookup is actually so good because you have a lot of energy. Yeah. You haven't eaten a lot yet that day. Right. Or at all. And...

I just like hooking up when I can see the daylight. When you can go to a show after. Hooked up the other day, me and the guy went and got a sandwich. What? I just put you to and tell me what's good. What sandwich did you get? Such a good sandwich. Actually, this part I can be specific about.

It was an insane. It was like a spicy pesto chicken sandwich that you could never eat before. No, you bought them during the day. No way. But post bottoming during the day, roll up your sleeves. We're eating spicy chicken. We're eating and fisting the spicy chicken. I didn't like that language at all. To the elbow. To the shoulder. To the shoulder.

What were we talking about that that came up? I don't know. We were talking about... Oh, we were talking about someone. We found out... Someone loves... Someone, we found out, likes to be... Have this sexual activity. It's on their menu, which is fisting. And I kind of just said... But Matt really dropped into a character and he was like... And he just really... He mimed it, essentially. He's like, to the shoulder!

Wear it like a glove. Because they were talking about how fisting begins. Right. Where it's like, you kind of have to go in with fingers. You gotta go in with fingers like this. It's gotta be like Italian hands. It's like when you hold a pen. Right. This is how you hold a pen? No, I hold a pen weird. You see me write. I have smudges all over this part of my hand when I write. Thoughts on this? I'm a writer who writes like a lefty, that's why. Well, a lot of great writers hold their pen in a fucked up way. Like yourself. Sylvia Plath. Sylvia Plath.

Isn't it so curious? Anytime there's like a great artist who like holds their pen like this, I'm like, oh, that's why. I loved the way you said, isn't it so curious? Like, it's just the way you tossed that. Isn't it so curious? So curious.

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People with journalistic integrity these days. It's only Peacock out there saying the truth. It's only Peacock out there saying that this is a coup. This is a coup. They're not saying that. People really aren't saying it's a coup. People aren't saying it. Like,

Like, did you see that crazy ass interview that Kristi Noem did? By the way, Kristi Noem, I forget what her title is. Come on, Todd. But she's... She's Homeland Security. She's Homeland Security. She's the one who shot her dog because it was annoying. And then got in glam before the ICE raids in New York. Yeah. So she was, I think, with Dana Bash on CNN being like, we can't trust the government. And Dana Bash was like, you are the government. You are the government.

I can't trust the government. Like, what are they going to say now that they can't say the problem, the fault is entirely with the government? That's them saying we are just here to dismantle. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Okay, cool. Great. But it's like, but then like, where does that authority come from anyway? You know what I love about all this?

It's making eggs cheaper. You know what I love about all these executive orders? Like, totally changing the price of milk. 100%. And thank God that 10 trans athletes in the United States can no longer compete. What are we talking about? And you know, progressive media is falling apart too. You were telling me about this drama between the Young Turks and... Oh, the Young Turks is...

in shambles. Well, it's, oh God, it's crazy. Like to watch them make like a rightward swing, to watch Anna Kastarian on like Jillian Michaels' podcast. Oh, it's crazy. Jillian Michaels is out here with the right wing podcast? This is my impression of Jillian Michaels on her podcast. Yeah. Biggest loser, Jillian Michaels? Yes. I had no idea. She went the complete opposite direction as Bob Harper.

Bob Harper went to The Truth and The Light, which is Peacock's The Traitors. Jillian went Swinging Right Podcast. How did we get on this? I don't know how we've gotten on a single thing we've talked about today. It's been one of the most... Good documentaries. We didn't even talk about Diddy. We haven't talked about Diddy on this podcast. And do we have to? Maybe not. Maybe we don't. Monstrous rapists. But the thing... Okay, this is what I think we can say about Diddy.

When you really look back at making the band and you really look back at all of the media that we have of him, pretty much everything, it's kind of shocking that no question was asked about the way he treated anyone in his orbit. Because it was exclusively abusive and totalitarian. But his version of... He's an abusive narcissist, which might feel like it's a redundant thing, but it's like he was always very good at the image and...

Of course, if you watch any isolated episode of Making the Band, you're like, fuck, that's a monster. But then, like, after this club shooting that J-Lo was at, that's another crazy thing. After that club shooting, and after he was acquitted, because he had fucking Johnny Cochran on the horn, like, he...

really cleaned up the... He took years off, cleaned up the PR, changed his name to Diddy from Puff Daddy. He was always really good at shifting the perception. And even when, even last year when Cassie filed the complaint and the civil suit, he was denied, denied, denied. And then the video came out of him in the towel chasing after her and beating the shit out of her. Yeah, that was...

When that video came out, he goes on live or he just releases some front-facing video being like, I take full responsibility. I've listened to a lot of podcasts about narcissists in the past couple of years and just trying to understand this behavior. And it's,

anything they can do in a moment to get to shirk responsibility or to just like another tactic is I'm going to say out loud the thing that's wrong about myself so that I can claim it as a victim narrative and no one can say it about me. Like these people, when they're put into a corner, it's not always the Trump thing of like, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. There's other also another narcissistic tactic is

which is I'm going to make myself seem like such a pathetic victim and like say all this stuff about myself so that actually everyone else is rendered speechless because I've already said it. They have no intent on actually changing, but they need everyone to know that they're aware because wouldn't it be crazy if they weren't?

That's like another tactic that you see him employing. I was going to connect a dot to Housewives, but it feels so inappropriate. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, it's giving that, right? I think that... But it's insane to compare her to Diddy. No, I mean... No, but I do think like...

I have felt pretty triggered because you see all these narcissists getting away with everything. It's like, I'm sorry, but you watched the Super Bowl the other night. Trump comes out to all of this applause and all of this fanfare while the world gets expeditiously worse by the second. And then you watch all the commercials and it's like,

Casey Affleck's back in a Super Bowl commercial and like Tom Cruise is still Tom Cruise. Like he's not the figurehead of a cult. You know what I mean? It's like it's very frustrating. Yeah. And then I turned to the room and I was like, this is kind of crazy. Right. And someone was like, straight white men are back. They're back.

And then there was that Bud Light commercial. The overcorrection there is wild. Right. It's a lot. It's like, okay, we really are making a big pivot back to like, not just a conservative mindset, but like a truly like fuck off to anyone that's tried to make us feel badly for being who we are.

are straight white men it's like that wasn't even what happened all we wanted was like for there to be some accountability about the pain that's been caused by a straight white man only ideology for this long like they're just upset that people have a voice now and so it's like that was one thing but then it was like when the media included people and tried to make everyone feel included in like a you know consumerist way that's when they really had had enough sure

Yeah, like you can't be in our Bud Light commercials. Yeah. Not Bud Light. Right. Well, they're back. No, they're back. That's awesome. So what happens now to Lost Couch? I don't know. I can't tell. I think Jillian Michaels is third co-host vibes. Yeah. She would tear. We absolutely slay the house down boots with Megyn Kelly.

The Red Scare Girls were on Megyn Kelly. Oh, great. They were having martinis and talking about the election. What kind of martinis, I wonder? I don't know. I think they were having martinis. I think that was the part of it that I pulled. I was like, are they fucking drinking martinis and talking about the end of the world? Anyways, what part of you is afraid right now? Oh, a huge part. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now, in even talking about all this...

And talking about it right now, I'm like... Not existentially. I just mean like when you get on the mic and talk about this types of stuff. I don't think like no one's going to like come knocking on our door because it's like they're not worried about us. You know what I mean? They were never worried about us. And we've never been like warriors in that sense. I've never been a warrior. I'm a gay guy that likes to like have sex during the day. Totally. But when are they going to come for us with that? I know. I know.

But that's the... Like, gay guys who have sex during the day literally don't threaten anything about...

It doesn't concern them at all. So like, there's no need, but they're going to want to come for that. But like, there's no need to, you know what I mean? I think it's because they haven't done it yet. I'm telling you. The other day, like I had such incredible sex during the day with a gay guy. And I was like, this is the key. This is like the key for people to just understand, like while you're out here wreaking havoc for

from a government perspective, you could be getting it from behind on the floor during the day. That's how you know it's real. I'm just saying. Hardwood. Okay, get this. Carpeted. Took the comforter off the bed, threw it on the ground and pointed to the floor. You did that? No, he did that. I said, this is exactly right. Kennel vibes. I even said, I know that's right.

Can you imagine if after every position change during gay sex, you was the bottom set? I know that's right. Me on the floor? I know that's right. Me getting into the butt? I know that's right! Me opening the door to trade coming in. We don't have a minute to spare. Don't bring her into this.

We love you, BroGash. Sometimes this podcast is just for me and you in a way where I'm like, how are people listening to it? And then so many people do. Because there's going to be people that exactly know the reference when you say, we don't have a minute to spare.

And the people know that reference in part because of you. I'm not giving any crap. I'm just saying like you introduced me to Brooke Ashley. I spotlight the right people. Oh, and I am a faithful Brooke Ashley watcher. Every episode. Every episode. I have been, I have had a harder time sitting through the live reactions to all the Housewives episodes that she's had because they tend to be longer. Because it takes a long time and you have to get with a lot of people. And I think she's a very talented editor. I think she's very good at just cutting together a

a nice 40 minute recap. You know, speaking of housewives recaps, I have a very bad feeling about your girl, Stacy rush at the Potomac reunion. Explain. Did you see the preview for it? I saw the preview that they played at the finale, but no, it is alleged that she paid TJ all season to be her boyfriend. And that he finally is like, she hasn't paid me. I'm not coming to the fucking reunion. It was all fake. Um,

How are you going to deal with that if it's true? Which it looks like... I think that's iconic. Stacey Rush is a perfect housewife. They've even said in the Vulture recaps that she is an alpha... Oh, no, I'm sorry. She's an apex predator housewife in the making. 100%. The way she came... She went after Karen and Giselle by the end of the season. Yeah.

I know that's right. Put the comforter on the floor because I know that's right. I'm taking it in the butt from that episode. I'm taking it in the butt from that, from Stacey Rush.

She is the most, I mean, this is the thing. It's a lookism thing. It's like, she's so beautiful that I don't care what she does. Wow. Okay. So you, you don't care if it comes to light that she paid this actor. Is that the worst thing anyone can do, by the way? That's not a morally wrong thing. It's explicitly not real. Not your reality.

But is that not a new... I love watching you swim upstream. I'm not swimming upstream. I think you'll agree with me. Is that new achievement unlocked? We have not seen a housewife do that. That's an iconic novel housewife behavior.

paying for some random insane man because he is crazy. That's another thing is his behavior. Now that we know it's probably fake, his behavior is like even wilder because like, did he think he was going to book as a result of this on-camera activity? You look wacko, sir. You're a wacko jacko. And he... And...

Is that not amazing for a housewife to do that? Yes. He comes in on 15 out of 10. With AJ, her friend? Yes, yes, yes. And then he was like, she doesn't want a problem. And so neither of us have a problem. And we don't have a problem. And then he drags her away and she's like, you're giving a lot of energy. You're being a lot. And he was like, I just wanted some time with you. I want a time with you.

He is. You look so beautiful and I'm so happy to be here tonight. It's like so clear that it's Sage. It's so scary. When you look back, but it's like she got more than she bargained for. She got more than she bargained for, but that is a new, that's something, and I'm being genuine here. I'm not like being gymnastic about this. It's like she is so interesting. Can I tell you what I think is going to happen? Yes.

I think Robin's coming back. And I'm not mad about it. I keep taking these L's. Do you look at it as an L? Yes. She's bad on TV. No, I don't think she is. I actually liked Robin on Traders. On Traders, sure. I'm willing to burn this with Robin. Really? Why won't you burn it? Where was that from again? That's Salt Lake City. I want to burn this.

Why won't you burn it? Lisa, why won't you burn it? She comes over to the other couch. Burn it. Burn it. Burn it. No, I was ready to burn it with Giselle. And then she went ahead and showed her ass. She made it too personal. She's irredeemable. I'm sorry. I would say Giselle, it's a no. I'm interested in Robin Dixon. Listen, I think it will be interesting to have her come back in light of all the Karen stuff. Especially if Karen ends up going to jail.

Do you think she's going to go to jail? There's a high chance. There's a non-zero chance. There is a definition. There is a definition in the words of Adam Warble. Definition is my favorite thing. You said it twice a day at least in front of me. There is a definition. Definition.

If you work as you should, you'll be making good. That is literally my message to Robin. There's a definite chance if you work as you should, you'll be making good. Yeah. Because I think, Robin, this is the thing. You kind of have to look back at the whole thing with different eyes now that we found out that the stuff with Karen is so deep and dark. What does that have to do with Robin? Robin was always on Karen's ass. Right.

And Karen acts like, and I love Karen Huger. We love Karen Huger. But she's acted like bigger and better than all of it for such a long time. Right. And then all of a sudden looming, there's this like darkness, which, you know, she wasn't. Well, she's always been so obsessed with the etiquette and what's Potomac and what's not Potomac. The etiquette obsession is so funny to me. Well, it does belie this thing that she has nothing figured out in her life. That like...

Ray never fucking paid his taxes or whatever. And like, there was a man, another man with her in the car that night. Do we believe that that's true? I think that might be true. But this is all, this is all, you know,

We need Wendy Williams more than ever. So apparently she's done that interview where people are like, she sounds normal. I think that's a hard thing to say. It's so hard to say. About anyone in any, like, because she also has a diagnosis. Right. So it's like people that struggle with, you know, any sort of...

I don't even know how... Cognitive situation, you're going to have good days and bad days. So the entire internet being like, see, look, she's fine. It's like, I don't know. She got a diagnosis from a doctor. We've also seen her being very not fine. Right, right, right. So I think people should continue to let the professionals weigh in on what Wendy should or should not be doing. Thank you for...

Saying that, by the way. Well, I'm a doctor. Well, but I presented something that... Why do you laugh? Jordan, Doug, are y'all laughing? He laughed at me when I said I was a doctor. I have four degrees. It's only four degrees. I only have one degree. I know. I had a census worker call me and she... For some reason, the way she said, and you have...

One bachelor's degree, yes? And I said, uh-huh. For some reason, it sounded like a dig. And you have, let me look here. Oh, it's easy to count because it's just one bachelor's degree. It's easy to count. Bachelor of Arts in Chemistry? That's interesting. NYU. Okay, now I understand. That makes sense. So one bachelor's of Arts in Chemistry. It says here, just looking at your extracurriculars,

Danger box improv? Mm-hmm. Very good, fun improv group. That's very good, fun improv group. Okay. Okay. So, yep. I guess I've heard all I need to hear as the census hangs up the phone. One idiot. Useless idiot. Waste of money. Thag. Gay guy that I call a thaggot.

Where are we on the word faggot? I'm embracing it. As you can see, I've used it several times. Is it a thing where our friends over at Stradio Lab have said reclaiming an insult is, which I don't think faggot applies. They'll say anything. When I say something about Stradio Lab, they'll say anything. They just want clicks. No. You can never be lost culture. Period. Well...

I predict a rise in that slur being used, just in a more general sense. Oh, certainly. Well, straight white men being so back, you can bet your bottom dollar that you're going to hear the word faggot. I hear it's happening in the Austin comedy scene a lot. Interesting. Tell them to go to Oil Can Harry's. You can call someone a faggot if you've

If you've had an anal fissure. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. If you've experienced anal pain in such a crazy apocalyptic way, like every gay man has. Yeah. You can use that word. Remember yesterday? What? I went to the bathroom to pee, came out of the bathroom and I was like, ah, because I had like a sudden insane pain in my butthole. Remember that? Yeah. I am the transparent one on this show.

I'm transparent. Say something transparent. Oh my God. I am. I shave. I did a full pube shave for the first time in months. Because a man asked you to? No, because I was like, I'm getting, I got to whack the weeds. Imagine a man like rolling over and being like, that was great. Next time, I just, for me, my preference is that you shave.

Everything. Kiss me. So good, babe. Do you like to be a little spoon or big spoon? Nice. I like to be big. I feel good. You feel even better hairless. Spooning. How do we feel? It's always good for five, ten minutes. Five and ten seems like a liberal allotment of time.

Because you know what happens when you spoon. Okay, this is what. The arms. Where do the arms go? No, this is unfortunately what happens when spooning works too well. Oh. And I'm going to reveal this. And the person that this is about listens to this podcast and is going to know. And no one acknowledged this when it happened, but I am acknowledging it now. So I hook up with someone while I'm on tour. I know this person well. Yeah.

So we sort of have like a friend slash sex relationship. And have sex. Great. Wonderful. And then afterwards, he's Big Spoon. Uh-huh. And it actually was good Big Spoon where you actually could sleep like that. Really? But unfortunately, it was just good. We just like had good... Puzzle pieces. But bed cam. But it was...

Sabrina, come on the podcast. I'm so serious. But you're saying it was good puzzle pieces. It was really good puzzle pieces. We had... And I was feeling like, oh, I actually could fall asleep with this man holding me. Lovely. No risk of any relationship here. He's in a relationship, etc. So I go into that dream state of where you're half asleep, half whatever. And when you're being held like that,

And you have sense memory to a time when being held like that, you were in a relationship. I half asleep, he shifted a little bit and I kind of went back and I kissed him and I said, I love you.

And this is, this is in a stupor. It was in a stupor. Yeah. And I, I literally, I, I'm not in love with this person. I don't, I do love this person. I care for them. We sex, but I don't, the way I say it is because I was somewhere else. I think I honestly got triggered to a time when, Oh my God. I was in love with a man that held me.

And so I go, love you. I love you. It's fully three words because love you is different than I love you. I fully say I love you. I feel him go...

I feel kind of like a shift. And then I lay down and now I'm like wide awake because I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, I just like... That woke you up or the shift woke you up? No, it was like the shift and then I love you. And then his like little like moment, I could have gone right back to bed because I was in half REM. You felt the tension. But I was like, oh no, I just said I love you to this guy. Oh, that's so bad. And I just played dead. And then it was fine. And we never talked about it until now. And I...

So this is the first time you're bringing it up after the incident. I almost said something right in the moment, but I thought like, I almost, because like, you know, when 20 seconds pass and then 25 and then 30, and now it's too late. The window's closed. I could have just been like, hey, I said, I love you. I don't mean it. I do. But like, you know, and he would have been like, I think window is always open.

I mean, it's out there now. It's out there now. The windows open. So, okay. So, and he listens and you think religiously he will, okay. He will receive that. I will receive a DM. That's great. And I think it's great. That's unless he doesn't remember, which that's also fine. But I guess now he's being reminded. I don't love any of you that I fuck once. Can I just say like, that's not like, I think the earliest I've said it is after three, three, three times.

After three times, that was the soonest you'd said I love you. Yeah, but... Have you had sex with this person more than three times? This person? Yes. I've had sex with like three or four times. But it was a mistake. I've said I love you one time for real, which was a horrible mistake that I made after three times once and it was too soon. But you live, you learn. You live...

You learn. Well, thanks for sharing that, by the way. Well, I'm the transparent one. I don't... You're the combative one. You're the combative one is what you are. And so you wield... I'm the heart of this podcast. Yeah, absolutely. And you are the soul. I don't know about that. What are you? I don't know what I'm giving. I really don't know what I'm giving anymore. I love this topic. I love this. What do you mean you don't know what you're giving? I'm back. You know what it is? I'm back in a moment of like... It's just...

Okay, one thing onto the next, onto the next. I've done like four cross-country flights in two weeks. I literally barely know where I am. This is dark echoes of like the hard moments of shooting. Do you actually feel that way? A little bit. Well... I'm like, I don't think I've ever been funny or I've ever been like... It's like, it's no, and I know you're rolling your eyes and... But this is the thing that just like anyone who like...

professionally in comedy like feels. I understand. It's a universal feeling. And so like, that's not, I'm not like hard on myself about it. And you can draw the line to fatigue. Yes. But again, so uninteresting to talk about that on this podcast. And I, and I really,

really have tried not to talk about this. I don't think it's uninteresting at all. But I talk, there was a moment on the podcast where I was talking about it a lot and people were like, Oh, being tired, being tired. But that's different than like the, my perception of myself is in flux and affected because I am so busy, which you could draw a line to success. And, but, but that is like, it's getting fuzzy for you. And I don't, I don't connect it to success. Yeah.

At all. But the reason why you're traveling so much is because... That's what I'm saying. Is because there's just things to be at for the next couple months. Right. When will that end? April. April is when like... April is when like award stuff is done and like I'm back on a regular schedule at SNL. Like that's... So the Oscars isn't like the finish line for... I think Oscars is the finish line but then after Oscars like there's more stuff...

You and I might have to talk about a trip. Oh, right. Yeah. But that's fun. That's fun. But right now my brain is only registering it as like another place to be at. We'll reframe that later. Totally. Bone and I want to go to Berlin. I'm still coasting on the Japan trip. Like I'm still like in a... Such a positive thing. Such a positive thing. And like I will hold on to that for the rest of my life. Like a friend was asking me about it.

the other night and I just like even just in recounting I just got emotional again just talking about the Pokemon plane and talking about the food I ate and all these things and the wrestling New Japan Pro Wrestling oh my god

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and need to do some pretty crazy stuff to survive. This season, their mental states begin to fracture and normal teenage girl drama is elevated by life and death circumstances. Fast forward to adulthood and everything they did in the wilderness seems to be coming back to haunt them.

It's the perfect mashup of horror, mystery, suspense, and laughs with an absolute star-studded cast. I'm talking friend of the show, Melanie Linsky, Tawny Cypress, Lauren Ambrose, Simone Cassell, special guests Elijah Wood and Hilary Swank with Christina Ricci and more. Plus, this season promises to answer so many burning questions. Don't miss the new season of Yellow Jackets streaming February 14th on the Paramount Plus with Showtime Plan. ♪

And then I'm going to go with you to the Academy Awards. Do you think that we'll have like pretty good seats? I mean, I hope so. It also doesn't matter. It's just going to be... You took our bestie Jared to the Critics' Choice Awards. And if you know, you know he was in the front. We were front and center aligned with the microphone. It was unreal. Unreal.

Oh my God. We got to meet the whole substance team, the producers who tell them what they said. They listened to the episode. I think maybe the pot, I mean like publicists are out in full force, literally in the, in the professional sense and in the last culture sense. Like, I mean, it was very nice to connect with some of you, a lot, all of you really like,

It's fun. We're all just talking about movies that we like. That's just what it is. All we wanted was to be more on the podcast, but we don't think it can work. We don't think it can work, but we got to meet Coralie. That's so cool. Got to meet Margaret and Jack. Margaret and Jack doesn't get bigger than that for me. Ultimates. And it was so fun. You know who was connecting with Jared? Who? With Cynthia. I heard about this. Cynthia and Jared were connecting a lot because anytime they would roll the nominees packages...

these are two people who have the same media diet apparently, 'cause they'd be like, "I love that show." Or, "That was an amazing short." "Oh, that documentary was amazing." Like these are just two people who've seen everything. - Jared told me that he was like, "Sing Sing, my favorite movie of the year." And that Cynthia went, "Sing Sing is my favorite movie of the year."

It's absolutely my favorite movie of the year. Really good. Lauren. Lauren. Matt has a Cynthia. He'd love that. He'd love that. John M. Chu winning best director. That was so great. Just to explain, because people seem to have comments about this. Orlando Bloom, who presented the award, pointed out that in the past, I think, since Argo, so that's like the past 12 years,

Every director who's won the Critics' Choice for Best Director has gone on to win Best Director at the Oscars. And we say since Argo because Ben Affleck was famously snubbed for the nomination for...

the Oscar for Best Director. Yes, yes, yes. So this is the first time, because every single year since that director has won the Oscar. And now John is not nominated for the Oscar. And John was snubbed for the Oscar. Snubbed. And so when he took the stage and won, with that information sort of top of mind for everybody, he said, I'm going to win that Oscar. And it was clearly a joke. He looked handsome as hell. So handsome. And did not have his speech prepared, did not have his phone with him.

off the cuff, off the dome, gave the best speech of the night. I think off the cuff is the way to do it. Absolutely. It's real. It's like, he just started with the words, I've always loved telling stories. And it just went from there. And then he talked about being at his parents' restaurant, comfort food at comfort prices, talking about like spending his days just like writing and drawing at the restaurant while he was just trying to like get through the day. And it just reminded me of like all the times that like I would just like

makeup stories like at Chinese school when I was like waiting for my parents to finish up. Like it's just, it just like dug up this thing in me where I was like, God, this is just what we, this is just what everybody in that room wants to do. And he told the most radical story of the year to me in like this mythic fantasy setting. Like there's a lot of great, interesting, subversive stuff this year at the Oscars, but I feel like Wicked is this Trojan horse of a thing where it's like about whatever, like anti-fascism, racism and like careerism and like all these things that like

is such a huge accessible container for everybody that like, it's pretty incredible. And I say this as someone who like, I have, I have said, I have just enough of an objective, like POV on this, not objective, but like, I'm obviously biased, but I just think like, I love that movie so much.

Even when I can easily forget that I'm involved, I'm just like, that's such a great fucking movie. Has he said anything to you guys about Wicked for good? Yeah. What is he saying? They're still in the edit. Okay. So no trailer to Super Bowl, unfortunately. Sorry, y'all. They just want to get it right. But they've been busy with the word stuff. So like the timeline is just... The dance card has been full. When did the Wicked teaser trailer come out? Was it Super Bowl? It was Super Bowl last year. I see. So people were expecting it this year.

But it will be great. Do you think that Cynthia and Ariana will continue to do pink and green all the way through? Or do you think they'll shift to a darker vibe because it's a darker film? I think they'll shift to a darker film. I think Ari's going to start working some blue in, as we've seen. Really? Not as we've seen on the red carpets, but like she... And they've already started to move away from pink and green. But...

Yes, I've noticed that. One of Glinda's dresses in Forgot is blue, as we've seen from those photos. You've seen those photos. I don't know if I have. What scene is that from? It's another, I think it's another Munchkinland scene where she's with Fiyero. And I think people have like clocked those stills. And you have no knowledge of the new song that Cynthia wrote for Forgot? No, I don't. Honest to God's truth, I don't. Why did you look away from me? I just, for me as someone who studies body language, because I've been studying a lot of Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively body language. Mm-hmm.

I noticed that when you said, honest to God, I don't, you looked all the way up here. I was looking at that camera and I was addressing the listener, Regis Cady's publicist, Kyle's finalist. Honest to God. Honest to God, I don't. And I really, like, what do you want me to say?

Sing the song. I don't know the song. Sing Cynthia's song. I don't know what it's called. I'm trying to think where it's going to come in. I don't know. I really don't know. I can't wait for No Good Deed. Oh, I mean, No Good Deed. I can't wait for March of the Witch Hunters because that song goes off. Are you in that? No. So what can you say about Fanny's role? What can you tease for us about what Fanny gets out to a wicked far good? Fanny and Shenshin have...

seen their worldview sort of pay off, which is we just want status. Yeah. And that's all I'll say. Do you think that their fall will be precipitous? I think their fall will be maybe quite literal. I can't wait to see how this turns out. To see how this turns out. You know, they're saying Onora is going to win Best Picture now. That's the favorite after DGA and PG. Yep. And I'm all for it. Down for it. Down for it. Although...

I don't know. There's a case to be made about, I'm just speaking to reputable people about this. And there's a case to be made at, because voting opened up this week for Oscars. There's a case to be made about because the news has been so awful. Yeah. Something might motivate people to vote for like the feel good, but still politically relevant movie in Wicked.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's out of it. It's not out of it. Especially with the John Chu win at Critics' Choice. I think that there's the John Chu win at Critics' Choice. I think the SAG awards are still coming up. I think that the predictions were that you guys would take SAG Ensemble. But now I don't... You know what I thought was going to happen? I thought maybe Producers Guild was going to go to a complete unknown just because it's like a lot of...

Bob Dylan fans. Yeah. Let's say, but I just don't think that movie is that great. And I think that a Nora now feels like they were saying with rank choice voting. Right. It feels like nobody hates a Nora. Whereas like,

Every other movie, even if they have a lot of love, there's like a lot of hatred. So like the way that you win Best Picture Oscar is if you get ranked two or three on everyone's ballot, you're going to win. Is that the Green Book effect, you think? Sort of. Yeah. It's like a movie that people, well, because people kind of hated Green Book by the end too. By the end, after voting had closed. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like it kind of became the villain late. Right. So it was maybe too late. Whereas Emilia Perez, that film has become the villain quite early. Yes.

And it's like sort of doomed. But Onora, if it's not people's number one, it's probably people's two, three, or four. And that's enough. Because everything else is super polarizing. It's, it's Raida Queen. Yeah. It's Raida Queen. It's Raida Queen rules this year at the Oscars. It's Raida Queen rules at the Oscars. I want to ask you about, because you brought it up. Me? Yes. Blake and Baldoni. Oh. Because we did, we kind of touched on this with, on the Sarah episode. I mean,

$400 million on top of the $250 million New York Times won? My bit that whole week was, so sorry. I have to take this text. My husband and I are being sued for $400 million. I actually only have about 15 minutes. My husband and I are being sued for $400 million. Can we actually do lunch at two? I have something from 12 to one. It's a long story. My husband and I are being sued for $400 million. Ah!

That's really, see, that's a great sort of enunciation, elocution. Yeah, I mean, things were going really great. Tom's car got flipped over and flipped over a few times. I don't even know that. Yeah, it's been a lot. Yeah, it's been a lot. Can I ask, can I ask like a... You can ask anything. I am so deep on this. I'm so deep on this. It seems like the prevailing story is that they're both bad. Yeah.

I think that that is coming to light. Like, there's certainly been bad behavior on both sides. Sure. But I am tending to side with Blake in this situation for the most part because the Baldoni stuff is like...

he is suing his old publicist now for releasing the text to the Times. It seems like there's more tracks being covered up on the Baldoni side than there are on the Blitz side. There are a million lawsuits now flying around for so much money. It's so insane. The New York Times is involved. All these PR firms are involved, etc. It's truly a story of just how dark the way Hollywood works. Because

because here's the real truth. You can be an asshole. It's not against the law. What's against the law is, you know, paying people in order to bury someone, defamation, sexual harassment on set. Like this type of thing is like against the law. So he can prove a million ways to Sunday that she's a fucking asshole. Right. But that's not against the law. But it's not against the law. And so basically he may have to pay based on stuff that like

I'm sorry, but Megan Toohey, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist at the New York Times, like pretty much proved in that piece. Right. And he can sue them or whatever, but like you can't really dispute the fact that he paid extremely expensive publicists to destroy her. Right. And that it worked. It worked. And I think what he is kind of violently retaliating against

against is this image that he's built up of himself as being this like feminist and like this advocate for women. Which I think if that's true or bullshit or whatever, it kind of doesn't matter like in the eyes of the law. Right. Because even if she was a total asshole and asserted her control over this movie and like, you know, brought her quote unquote dragons in, which by the way, if you read the way that this woman texts her,

Oh my God. It's wild. You're talking about the publicist. Talking about Blake Lively. Blake, uh-huh. But she can do all that stuff.

She can assert control over the movie. She can swing her dick. She can bring in her famous friends. She can have her husband get involved in all this stuff. Like, it's not against the law. The way that he acted probably was against the law. So... Okay, thank you. Because I'm going kind of crazy being like, well, they're both awful. And I'm like, well, but one is...

Well, the thing is, I mean, I think at this point, especially because they keep digging in and they clearly want to go to trial, this is an ego thing and it's ugly all around. And I don't know necessarily where all of their careers go after this. I'm sure in some respect, they'll kind of be fine. Yes. But...

You can say to like he contacted his PR and said, you know, let's turn the narrative against her in such a crazy way that like we bury her and destroy her. And you can bring up all this stuff of her being a little bit of a jerk to her.

these, you know, journalists, like, you know, saying this kind of thing. Like, there's an old video of her talking about how she did blackface, et cetera. Like, it's like, you can unearth all of this stuff. You're not proving she is a criminal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just not. You're proving that she is

An actress with a big ego. It's not a criminal suit. No. But I guess what I'm saying is it's like a liability thing. The legality of it all. And it's like, I think while he may be winning the thing about public opinion about her, he'll probably still end up paying. Right. Well, I'm glad it's...

Made its way to Lost Gulch. I loved, I will say the Chelsea Handler joke that I liked the most was like, I think we're all very, but something she said like, I think we're good. Yeah, we're good. We're good. Yeah. Because that's another thing is it's like when people are so hell bent on, like they seem really sure that everyone cares. And I will say I really didn't until it was the only thing in entertainment news.

And it's such a salve from all the rest of the dark shit happening in the world that it's kind of just like, all right, let's see what's going on with this Blake and Justin thing. And all of a sudden you're sucked in. But you're saying that window is closed very quick because now you don't care anymore. It's not even that I don't care. It's kind of the thing of like, it's very well, let's see how this turns out. Because if it goes to trial, of course I care. Right. How do you like bring that to, bring it back to the fire? Like, how do you bring that level of like,

to like something that actually is. Well, how about the fact that they were filing these lawsuits while the fires were happening? Totally. Just to show like that the focus is so on them and that the egos are so out of control that this is literally going down and those things are being filed in the court of law like while everything was going down. Yeah, but it's so brutal. It's so sad that like that's the shit that takes up air. Totally. But I mean like it's

it's kind of always been like that. I know. I know. And here's what I'll say is good. The fact that you can even make that distinction now and us on our platform can be like, isn't it wild how distracted we all are easily by, by what is essentially bullshit. Even if it's a big deal to them and it's a big deal, you know, to some people in a real way, like at least we can be able to say like, we see how easily distracted the media is. And like, I don't

I don't know. It's all pretty silly. Like, I hate that I know that his production company is called Wayfarer now. And that's just information that's in my brain. Yeah, it's so close to Wayfarer. The furniture brand. Yeah, the furniture brand. Yeah, he should have thought of it. Well, this just made me think. My loan out company has a bad name. And I'm like, I need to change it in case I ever get into legal shit. Dingo Dingus? Dinkum Dingo. Dinkum Dingo. Australian thing. What's yours? Oh, yours is great. Basic Instincts. Basic Instincts. So funny. Yeah.

So good. I like my loan out. You've got a great loan out. Dinkum dingo, I was just like, I can't come up with anything. It's two Australian words. Put it in. I think dinkum dingo is great. But if it was like dinkum dingo is, you know, like dinkum dingo file the complaint against. It's like, that sounds so stupid. Do you want to start a production company with me? Yes. What should we call it? Like, do we want it to have like a serious sounding name? Should it be called Twins Are Fighting Again? Gemini. Gemini.

I'm meeting with Gemini Entertainment. No, apparently that's the Google AI name. I was like, we need to get on these names, y'all. Because sometimes they snatch up the... It's like, you know, getting a handle. You got to snatch it up quick. Totally. What should it be called? Corridor. Looking at your sweater. Yeah, that's a good place to start. But what's something we both love? Mariah, Kelly, Gaga. Mariah, Kelly, Gaga. Yeah.

Like it's a gay kid screen name in like 2008. Mariah Kelly Gaga. Wait, I've told you. This is so revealing of myself. Your ESL screen name is Casey. No, what is it? AOL screen name. Your AIM screen name? My AIM screen name was... Kelly Clarkson. Wasn't it? Yeah. When I was little, it was...

M-A-R-O-T-C-K-7-7-9. And you're going to scream when you find out what T stood for. T stood for Trenise. Trenise from season two of American Idol. Number five. No, she was number six. She was fifth place.

Because it was Trenise, then Kimberly Clark. No, Kimberly Clark was number three. You better stop. Kimberly Locke was her name. I'm sorry, Kimberly. I think you've messed up. Kimberly Locke. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So it was Trenise. Then who was fourth? Trenise. And who was fourth on season two of America? Oh, God. No, I don't know. Some guy. It definitely was some guy because I was like pissed. Because then it was first place was Ruben Stuttered. Second place was Clay Aiken. Third place was Kimberly Locke.

Fourth place. I forget who that was. Yeah, but it wasn't Trenise. No, Trenise was fifth. Oh, was it Josh Grayson? That sounds familiar. Remember Julia D'Amato?

I was rooting for Julia D'Amato the whole time. Julia D'Amato rocked. She was like a single mom or something. And I was like, I want her to win. She was a single mom hairdresser from Long Island. Yes. And she was very like the woman that I would go in to say hi to my mom at work. And she'd be like, oh, hey, you're so handsome. I've told you that my mom had really good relationships with everyone at her hair salon, including Lex, who first cut my hair into a crew cut and turned me around to the mirror and said, you look like a Marine. Yeah.

And there was one nasty queen who my mom was in a feud with at work. And you're going to die when I tell you who it was. Who? The nail girl, Bernadette. Well, I don't like her.

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All right. Well, it's time to wrap it up. This is I Don't Think So, Honey. And this is where we take 60 seconds to talk about something in culture that has messed us up. And I don't think so.

And I'm ready. This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. The nail girl, Bernadette, who years ago did not invite my mother to her wedding. They worked in the same salon, Extasia, in Lindenhurst, New York. It was a community-driven place where women came to get...

And so with these vibes over at the nail station, Bernadette is being a gatekeeper at her wedding. She invited everyone to

including the girls who were essentially interns there who just swept up the hair to her wedding in the late 90s and not my mother. Can you imagine not inviting Katrina to a party? What the fuck do you have against my mother, Trina Bernadette? Let me tell you something. I better not catch you out here.

in whatever streets, and you come up, Matthew, it's so exciting to see you so successful. I'm Bernadette. I used to work with your mother. I will end you. Five seconds. Wherever you're at.

Let's go, Bernadette. You didn't invite my mother to your wedding? That was a problem. That's one minute. And fucking Bernadette, I'm sorry. We love every nail technician, but compared to Katrina, you're sitting down most of the day. No, she was nothing. Katrina is on her feet. People are not going to Ecstasia and Lyndon Hurst for their nails. Sorry, Bernadette. The nails is extra. This is no disrespect to all the nail techs out there, but this is a hair salon.

So know your place and know your role. Show some respect to Katrina. Clarities. Just understand your legacy is not that you're, I don't even know if you're still married, but either way, if you are, even if it's a successful marriage, in terms of lost coach metrics, your legacy is that you fucked up in the late 90s and didn't invite Katrina to your wedding. And I heard about it at home. The legacy is I'm forgetting your ass as soon as this episode is done. He will. I won't.

I wish you all the best in life, Bernadette. I will not file you away in any drawer in my brain. That's going to be Bo and Yang only. I don't wish you well, and I'll remember you. I clearly do. I was a young, young gay kid, and you don't cross our mothers. Period. First of all, your wedding was probably way boring because my mom absolutely tears it up to Love Shack, tears it up to all the wedding songs. God.

Never too much, never too much, never too much. Love Shack is, yeah, that's up there. To say nothing of Shout. Azalea Banks had a point the other day when she tweeted she wants to see Sam Smith sing Never Too Much by Luther. And then her fans were sort of dragging her like, fuck you, Sam Smith. And she was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Sam Smith can sing like... No, Sam Smith can do Luther. She called him White Luther. All right. And that's our Azalea Banks mention of the episode.

And this is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So, Honey. You ready? Yep. His time starts now. I Don't Think So, Honey Microsoft Teams. Is it a browser experience? Do I have to download the app? It's not clear based on the call to actions, based on the button. And when I get there, the view is...

I have to click an error to go see the other eight people on the meeting. And then if I mute a pop-up, a persistent pop-up, no matter how many times you X out of it, pops up and says, you're muted, you're muted. Bitch, I know. I'll press spacebar when I have to speak out of respect for the 30 other people on this call.

What is the deal, Microsoft Teams? I don't want to buy into the Office suite anymore. Google Drive got your ass and we're all using docs and sheets and pages. We're not doing PowerPoint in the year 2025. I don't know why we're still tethered to Teams. I don't know why Bill Gates is in Interview Magazine at this point. Why do we give these people our time, our effort, our energy? I have to spend five minutes working

after the meeting starts to figure out how the fuck to log on. And that's one minute. Everyone out there, Microsoft Teams doesn't work for us.

And I have all the sympathy in the world for the people who work at companies where they are forced to use Microsoft Teams because of whatever contracts they have. But you must fight and use your power as employees to switch to Zoom. Just do it. It's the standard, not the industry standard, it's the world standard. The quality is so much worse on Teams. What's the redeeming thing? I don't know. I don't know. I ruined my day this morning.

I don't know a worse... Platform. I don't know a worse platform. No, we're not fans of Teams. We're not fans of Teams. Because it's also so much business to get into it. It's business to get into it. I can't see a full list of the... Like, a full populated list of, like, people, like...

I don't know. The grid view is like... It's different. It's three by five in the first three rows. Then it's two by seven in the second. It's like... This is the kind of thing that's really going to piss Bo off. No, I need to see... Everyone needs to have the same hierarchy on a Zoom or on a video conference. Totally agree. It's just...

Do you really agree? No, yes. And I want to say we loved everyone on the call. And it was a great call. Great call. We would have loved to see you all shine equally. All shine equally. Yeah, that's the thing. The grid just kept moving. Resizing and people had bigger faces than others. And I was like,

This is intolerable. Yeah. Let me tell you something. Hollywood squares, it was not. No. I just want my- I want Paul Lind and Whoopi Goldberg in center square. I just want to know exactly where someone is sitting in the Hollywood square. I want all my Zoom calls and like online meetings to be like Hollywood squares. Like I know that Deb from accounting is the top left square. I know that. You and I would have torn up.

It's back. It's back. What? Yes. It's like fully a show. The other day it was on. Margaret Cho was on it. We need to get booked. Drew Barrymore. I think Drew Barrymore is center square. That's iconic. The cast was not chumps. I'll tell you that.

That was my favorite. We want to do, in fact, someone sent me a picture of it and was like, why aren't you on this show? Which I usually think of as a little bit of a drag. Right. But, but I know I want the Hollywood squares is so aspirational. It's iconic. All right. Well, so we're available for Hollywood squares. Yes. I want to say one thing before we go. Okay.

And I feel like it's sad that I even have to do this, but I'm now begging. So Epic Universe is now finished. It's completed. It's being handed over to Park Operations. I have not heard from anyone at NBC Universal or, you know, the parks. I haven't heard from anyone from Orlando with an invitation.

And I don't know what else I can say other than you want us there. Trust us. Talking about this. Trust us. Like, please invite us. Please. And also, everyone on the ground, BTS, the information's also been lacking. I've not been getting the leaks that I wanted. Like, if you are on the grounds in Epic Universe and you can give me leaks, you need to be getting in my DMs. I'm very good about discreetly sharing information.

I'm not feeling it. You can see we went black. We went dark. Look at that, we went dark. Our backdrop went out because of the severity of the situation. This is a very serious situation. And we need to be reached out to. We need to be collaborated with on this. Or I'm going to be upset. This sucks. See what's happening?

Our entire operation is called Teams. Is this Microsoft Teams? Oh, no. Oh, no. It's Samsung Smart TV. All right. Well, we got to go. We got to go. All right. Epic Universe reach out. I'm hearing that they're giving an engineer walkthrough in March. How are you hearing that? Someone reached out to me and I said, you need to reach out to Matt Rogers. No, Matt. Sit down. What?

Matt, no. Now you're making me feel bad for sharing information with you because it didn't come up and this person messaged me yesterday. Do you want me to read it? Yes. They might get in trouble. But see, if you had messaged me, I would have put this out on the low. Okay. All right. No, no, no. Don't get them in trouble. But like, no, I'm just, I just want to read what the scuttlebutt is. Okay. Tell us the scuttlebutt. I can't believe this. Oh, here it is.

Team members preview dates have dropped. That's all I've received. What do we... We need... Reach out. In the words of Diana Ross, reach out. No one will do a better job than us at drumming up excitement. People need to hear about this. And they're only going to hear about it on Lost Cult. We have a huge platform. And we will use it well. Speaking of hearing, we end every episode with a song. I just want your two hands on me and I'll hold baby with you.

Is this reading? Yes. What does it look like? Bye. Bye.

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