"Toxically Benevolent" (w/ Matt & Bowen)
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Welcome to the Cooper residence. Cooper McAllister. I'm surprised you put my name first. Come on in. From the brains behind the Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon, CBS is excited to welcome back some beloved, familiar folks. I am so glad that you and Cece are here. And Georgie. Atta girl. It's a whole new chapter. Georgie and Mandy's first marriage premieres CBS Thursday, 8, 7 central and streaming on Paramount+.

Look, man. Oh, I see. Wow. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Las Culturistas. Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling. You were singing the amazing song Dreamin' by Blondie before we got on the mic. I was going to say, this episode is going to be a lot more singing and giggling and way less tears. Promise, promise, promise. Oh, stop it. I'm singing Dreamin' by Blondie and I'm in a really good mood.

The restaurant! Can we first say one thing? And let's re-litigate this because it's really important culture. I wouldn't go back in time and I wouldn't like, you know, back to the future this because I think everything worked out. Are you about to talk about Trixie Mattel? Wow. Trixie Mattel won that, she won that lip sync to Dreamin' by Blondie in season seven of RuPaul's Drag Race and Pearl lost.

Oh, because I was about to ask, who did she even go up against? But that was, yes, that was her and Pearl. And Pearl was in that snake, that cobra outfit. And Trixie was in that, like, beautiful silk cheap how situation. I will never forget, like, I don't think they do the What's the Tea podcast anymore, but Rue and Michelle had on Debbie Harry and Blondie, who were the guest judges literally for that episode. Yeah.

And they were talking about that elimination. And Rue was like, but don't you think that Pearl was really giving Blondie, you know? And Debbie Harry just goes, no, we like Trixie. Wow.

Now, was this like after Trixie had become Trixie? No, this was well before. This was, I mean, the only thing we knew about Trixie at the time was... Wisconsin girl. Eliminated that episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the first time I ever heard that Trixie Mattel was like popping off in like a way that felt like good and individual to her was Dave went to go see her show in P-Town like years and years ago. A fixture. And he was like, no one gets it, but...

Trixie Mattel is fucking incredible. And then obviously very quickly after that, everyone got it. And now Trixie is the legend. The thing about Trixie is like, she will never abandon her roots and she will continue to be a P-Town girly.

She was pushed back, but I think she's on her sabbatical right now. She was just hanging out and she just fucking deserves that. No one in entertainment deserves a break more than fucking Trixie Mattel. And I'm happy for her. Oh my God. She is one of those people. I have not moved to do this too much. But when she put out that video being like, I'm going to go on a break. I was like, I'm going to text the girl. I texted her too. I was like, take as much as you need.

Like we all have been there. We've all like fucking fizzled and sizzled and you got to sizzle, you know? She's a sizzler. When you're such a sizzler, you need to take a break. When you're a hot fajita, you got to sizzle. I think we are. Are we both fajitas? Are we in our fajita moment?

I found out there's some like YouTuber who for some reason I stumbled on his this video where he like teaches you how to like pose for photos. And I was like, sure, I'll watch this. I forget what his name is, but he I don't know if he invented the term sizzling, but you got to sizzle into a pose. You can't just like you can't like you got to like kind of shake it off and kind of sizzle it off. Like, don't just like hold the pose. You got to like relax into it and sizzle, you know? Yes. Yes.

I'm a fajita for sure. When I'm in front of the camera, I want to sizzle. I want to scintillate. I want to be a fajita. Wow. Cut to me naming my daughter fajita. Oh my God. That's beautiful. Gorgeous name. Is that a nominee? I think, I think most gorgeous name. What was the category name? Best name for a girl that you haven't even thought of yet. I think that's going to be a category next year for cultural. Oh, I love fajita. Fajita. Fajita. Stop it now.

Oh, that's good. See what I mean? Like already, this is off to a different foot. And can I just say, can I just say something? It's your podcast. To all the readers, Katie's publicist finalists who reached out to me after last week.

I just want to say that I realize how lucky I am to have you guys. You all checked on me and I want you to know I am fine. I had a really hard week and I went to therapy and I worked some shit out and I've taken some new steps and it's fine. And I definitely feel all those things and they're all true, but I don't, no one needs to worry about me. They made me a fucking playlist.

They collaborated on a playlist for me all together and they sent it to me for happy music to get me out of my little Spotify rut that I'm in. I just want to acknowledge and say that we are the luckiest. We're so lucky. Idiots to have you guys and just love you guys so much.

And you. Because I want to tell you something. I had to self-immolate and listen to that episode for edits. And went through it again. And you are just such a good friend to me. You are so that girl. You can't. No, you really are that girl I knew you were. I knew you were that girl. I went to bed the other night. My final thoughts before I drifted off into sleep was, my girl, Matt Rogers, what an angel on this earth. I'm so lucky.

What made you think of that when you were laying? I just had fun. Oh, shut up, you fool. Don't give yourself credit. Yeah, I was never, never, never give myself credit. Promise you, girl. Well, you know, I think this is a perfect, I mean, that is a perfect distillation of the pure love. Like, I feel, especially now,

fandom even though i don't really love that word but like a fandom is a reflection of the person and the reason why we have why you have these really caring people who made that playlist for you is because you give that out it is what goes out goes in and vice versa so it doesn't surprise me at all but i'm delighted to hear that well i am in love with all of you and i always will be

What else? So should we get into the fucking culture? Because there has been culture. Can I tell you whose concert I saw the other night? You went to Joan Jett and Alanis Morissette? I went to, okay, so this was the, this phenomenon that has been happening lately of I'll just be like buying something from a store and the cashier will just tell me

about an event and I'll just go cashiers no I told you a few weeks ago I was at the Beachwood Cafe and I think I was getting like a green juice or something and the girl was like I saw the best concert last night I'm the biggest fan of Jessie J and I went to go see it and it was amazing and it was like at the Terragram ballroom it was like a

a couple hundred people and she was shredding. - Oh my God. - I was like, "Does she perform again tonight?" Turns out she was. I went, "Incredible." It happened again. Jared and I were in Studio City at a weed dispensary and the guy was like, "I'm going to see Alanis Morissette tonight."

And I was like, what the fuck? That is a show that I would 100% go to. So then the next night, it was Morgan Wade, who we missed. Oh, my God. Joan Jett, we came in halfway through. Incredible. And then Alanis Morissette, bitch. This was truly, first of all, groundbreaking vocal technique. Of course. I'm telling you, like, you don't think of her as one of the singers, right?

She is one of the singers. Her instrument, her technique is nuts. Resonant, open, like expansive voice on her. Let me tell you, she did a performance of Mary Jane. You've heard Mary Jane. You know the song Mary Jane by Alanis Morissette. What's the matter Mary Jane? Had a hard day. I

I know Mary Jane by Mary J. Blige. All night long. So different. Also great technique on her. Well, I first knew the song Mary Jane because Nikki McKibben sang it on American Idol back in the day. God rest. Wow. Season one. God rest. Season one. But then I got into Alanis. Amazing. She did a performance of Mary Jane at the Kia Forum the other night. That was like a moment ago.

In culture. It was a moment in culture. To say nothing of all the hits. You live, you learn. Give it up for you live, you learn. On your feet. On your feet. If you're in your car, get up on your feet and applaud. You better shut up. You better shut up.

You live, you learn. Oh my God. You know what's also funny about Alanis is like she's obviously synonymous with like female rage. Yes. And it could not have been more of a joyful show. Like obviously like towards the end she did You Oughta Know and everyone was popping off.

But it was so fun to get that angry. Can I say I love anger? Tap in to the anger, honey. It's fun to just let it go. Like you should have seen me in therapy and EMDR last week. Holy shit.

Anger can only be the release. It cannot be the fodder for more anger. It cannot beget more. That is the only note on anger that I have. You're so right. But I love anger. Anger is, I mean, like expressing it in a healthy way.

has been something really, it's actually given me peace. That's amazing. Because I've realized for quite some time now, I have had so much anger that I have not expressed. And in doing this therapy I'm doing, like I finally expressed all my anger and I realized what it's really about. And it's been incredible. And then going to that concert, I was just like, wow, you ought to know, like this is really, it's very useful for me right now.

Oh my God. I mean, oh, that is a pertinent song. Just on the note of anger and to just bring back a piece of culture, like, here are some words.

You live, you learn, you love, you learn, you cry, you learn, you lose, you learn, you bleed, you learn, you scream, you learn. That is life. That is the directionality we love to see. All roads lead to you learn, okay? Babe, let me tell you something.

Never have lyrics been more simple, but also so dynamic. And I'm telling you, to say nothing of the hook and the way it's written and sung, but that is a cathartic,

moment in music. Like, just to see it so many years later really hit in the same way for this insane cross-section of people. I mean, it was very sapphic. Yes, of course. But it was also gay. But it was also straight women with their husbands and husbands that were really excited to be there. And you're talking about someone that everyone respects. Show me someone who doesn't respect Alanis Morissette. I want to say...

So in this book, Status and Culture, that I have tried to extol to you, which you've bought. I have it. So he has a timetable in there for how long it takes for something. And let's talk about it on the podcast. And readers, kitties, publicists, finalists, let's get your take on this. So this is the timetable that he has. Well, I'll just say this is from the book.

Status and Culture by W. David Marks. How our desire for social rank creates taste, identity, art, fashion, and constant change. And actually kind of on face value, it kind of speaks to Mean Boys a little bit too, because that book is a lot about how politics flows downhill from culture, and just about interesting things to think about as of late. Okay, so here we go. In the book, there is a table that

based on the art historian James Laver, published in 1937. It's a now famous chart outlining how evaluations of certain trends change over time.

One year after something comes out, it's dowdy. 10 years after something comes out, it's hideous. 20 years after its time, it's ridiculous. 30 years after its time, it's amusing. 50 years, it's quaint. 70 years, it's charming. 100 years, it's romantic. 150, it's beautiful. I don't know that that applies anymore. This feels very specific. But I'm just saying, like, I think we're rounding...

I think there's been enough of a patina on Jagged Little Pill that it is a classic for all time. But we were talking about Anthony Kiedis on our other podcast, Two Guys, Five Rings, based on the closing ceremony. I'm connecting Alanis to Anthony, and I might be a little...

not working, but like there's something about those two people to me as we consume them now in the culture as they perform their old work where we go that is a beautiful aesthetically important thing. It's authenticity.

And I think that's another thing that I was leaving the concert saying was at no point did that feel like a contrived performance at all. I don't think there's a contrived bone in her body. And she obviously, I don't think Jagged Little Pill was her first album. It obviously was the breakthrough, but I believe she struggled for a second and then released Jagged Little Pill. And it was this like cultural moment that harnessed like a feeling and was able to, you know, hit the mainstream. And I will say that,

It's not even just the aesthetics of what she was doing, which feel like Alanis. You know, she had her Alanis hair. She was working the stage like Alanis Morissette, like feeling like she hadn't aged a day because probably her spirit, like her authenticity has always been there. And that may be why, like ever since Jagged Little Pill, like she's had successes, but nothing on that level because she probably was resistant to selling out a lot, right?

You know what I mean? Like there was the Jagged Little Pill musical a few years ago, which I feel like felt a little odd because that musical, like marrying with sort of like the way that musical theater can be in a contemporary sense where it feels a little bit like

lame. Like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Or it's relationship to audience and that never being the relationship that Alanis had to her audience. Right. And I also think like we're talking about these lyrics like you live, you learn. Like when Alanis is performing them from her authentic place as a then young person who's like, you know, working through this, that's so different from like

you know, six or seven, you know, 35 year olds who booked a musical theater job singing, you live, you learn. Like, it's just not gonna, it's not gonna hit the same, but I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is it's like jagged little pill. Like that's an authentic piece of work. And to talk about Anthony Kiedis, like that's like an authentic artist. Yeah. And they're both authentic artists. And there were moments in this concert that she was doing things that

Like, there's a moment where she just spins in a circle for, like, a minute. Wow. And then collapses on stage with her hair in her face and finished the song, obviously extremely nauseous and dizzy. And I'm like, she just put herself in that state so that she could, like, get this across the way she needed to get it across. And, like, I don't know. It just felt...

Very genuine. Everything about it felt genuine. Everything about the messaging was so purely from her. Like the second song in the entire set

was accompanied with graphics that were like, it will take 220 years for women at this rate to achieve equal pay. Like every six seconds, this happens to a woman. Like these, we were two songs in. And she was like, already I'm letting you know that I am this person who's still concerned about these issues. And I am still out here to speak to this stuff that I've wanted to speak to from the beginning, which is about that it's hard to be a fucking...

And the way that you're treated by society and the men in your life and the fucking narcissists that want to take advantage of you and your youth and your vitality and your talent and your shine like that is universal. But she hasn't lost that, you know, like she as a developing maturing artist has not lost that.

the edge that came along with her in her debut. It never got sanded down. No, and it feels like she just wrote it. You know, like it's like that music really still works. It was cool. I think it's time for us to announce that Alanis Morissette is in the top 50 of the iconic 400. 100.

I didn't know you were announcing that today. She's in the top 50. That's all we'll say. We can't say where she landed, but we can say she's in the top 50. And you know what? She is. And if you thought maybe we forgot about the Iconic 400, you were only a little bit right. It's coming. It's coming. It's time. It's been time. We're just going to say full disclosure, full transparency for the next couple months.

Matt and I will be on opposite coasts. We're gonna do this over Zoom in our respective, wherever we find ourselves, I guess I was gonna say homes, but we're not even gonna be home necessarily.

Don't worry. Matt has since found a sense of mooring, despite the fact that he is going to be bouncing around this great nation of ours. I'm good. But we're just going to be doing this over Zoom. So we are we have made the joint decision to not have as many guests in that time because we do prefer it when it's in person. That's all.

Yeah. I think the guests are sort of a thing where it's like, let's just make sure that it can be the best version of what that episode is. You know what I'm saying? And those are obviously when we're in person and can figure video out and do all that stuff. Just because now that we've set that expectation, we want to keep meeting that expectation. But life being the way it is, Bowen and I are not always...

together together and to quote the title of a Patty Harrison film, which everyone should be seeing, by the way, it's so good. She's so good in it. Indie spirit award nominee, Patty Harrison. I just texted her the other day to ask her a question and I got the green text back and

which is so patty-coated. What happened? I don't know where the fuck in the world she is. Like, I wish I knew. She's one of the most difficult people to get a hold of. And I will say that publicly. Yes, and she would talk to that. Miraculously, you even got a text back. And this is no knock on daddy. Oh, no, I didn't. What I mean is, I sent my text and the green thing came up. And I was like, okay, well, she's either dead or in Europe. Let's hope it's the latter. Let's not put that thought in people's heads. No, I don't think she's dead.

do you think patty's in the iconic 400 yeah yeah but really low really low i think she just barely made it she's above blake clively who's having a great week

Did we announce that Blake Lively was number 400? We did announce that Blake Lively was number 400. Blake Lively is number 400 on the list of the iconic 400. And I guess we should get into this. So there's drama. There's drama over the book It Ends With Us. And not just within its pages. Oh, right. Can you fill me in on this? I don't really care to know more about the drama. Honestly, it's one of those stories that I guess because she is so famous, like...

that it's one of those things that everyone sort of now talks about because I too didn't care that much. Not to say I don't love Blake. I do love Blake. I actually auditioned for this movie. Oh. I got a new agent and I think he was like trying to send me on more like atypical things. So I went on tape. Okay, this was funny. It was the week of my breakup last year, like a year and a half when I went through that thing. And I was so...

I was crying every day, sobbing every day. And I had to cry on this tape. And you were like, let me use that. But I also had to be straight. So it's like, I had to like, I had to manage like how to maintain my emotion, but also seem like a love interest of Blake Lively, who by the way, was named Atlas. Yeah.

gotta cut it out with this name. But it was just so funny because me crying as a straight man, like, I don't really think plays. Well, you can, you were raw enough to deliver on the crying, but you...

There's that extra refraction where you're like, I got to be okay. It's too much though. The wires get too crossed. Because it's like, you're not supposed to have those checkpoints where you're like thinking too hard about like how you're expressing the emotion. The emotion should just like be there or in a way that you can restrain it and then give it. Meanwhile, like I was not in control of my emotions and you think, oh, this is a great opportunity to go on tape for something emotional because I am emotional.

And then it just didn't match up with whatever. Obviously, didn't book. You're not going to see me making love to Blake Lively in cinema, I don't think, anytime soon. I don't know. But suffice it to say, I hadn't heard about this movie since then. I really didn't know it was this huge book. It's apparently one of the biggest books. And I guess Blake Lively and the director, Justin Baldoni, absolutely hate each other. It's one of those don't worry, darling situations where it's just like,

the director and the entire cast and creative team cannot promote the movie together or whatever the fuck. And I don't actually know why. I've heard rumors as to why, but it's one of those situations where it's now bled into the public and it's that. Right. The only bit I caught was Jenny Slate, our pal, previous guest of the show, being on a red carpet, being asked...

Like, it must have been so amazing to see Justin, like, be, like, the director and, like, be on camera. And, like, God, what was that like for you? And she goes...

Yeah, I mean, I'm totally butchering this, but she was like, it's hard to do both. Yeah, it's really hard to do both. Yeah, she fully did not answer the question, but in a way that was very obviously like expertly touching it. It was very, it was good. No, it was so chic. And Team Jenny, whatever side she's on, which I believe is Blanks. But I mean, yeah, it just seems like one of those things where it's very obviously a bad situation. And to watch people navigate that in public is so...

It's frustrating, obviously, because no one wanted it like that. But it is a little bit funny where it's just like... And now, of course, everyone's coming in with their opinions on what it must be. It's also a rough book. Oh, yeah. Have you seen the trailer? I haven't seen any of it. It's like half romantic comedy and then this dude becomes very violent and abusive.

And so I don't really know how you get that across to people. Yeah, I mean, TW domestic abuse to the nth degree, but that's what the movie is giving. So on top of all that, it can't feel good to have like strife. And now we just hope everyone's okay. Blake looks great on the carpets. It can't be good to have strife. That just applies across the board. And that's actually a rule of culture. What number is that? Six. Six.

It can't be good to have strife. And that's just across the board. Unless it's Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII.

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Now, where does this leave us in terms of this ongoing conversation culturally that we're all having about the purpose of a press tour? At this point, it makes me feel nothing. I'm like,

Just tell me if the movie's worth seeing. I don't need to watch the cast play games on Vanity Fair, you know, doing like, well, what's Blake Lively's perfect? I don't think I need it. I really don't. Oh, got to talk about your girl on Hot Ones. Ariana absolutely slayed Hot Ones. She was a rock. She was poised. It was graceful, the Hot Ones. And also, and funny. I love the way she talks through her experience.

She's just like, hmm. Like she really is giving, like, sort of giving Meisner. It's very sense memory. Or is that Adler? I don't even know which one that is. Hmm. It's making me realize that

I don't like hot sauce. So she's very in touch with her emotions, as we all know. I loved her hot ones. And so this is what I mean. Like, I love hot ones as a press tour. Stop. Hot ones. Hot ones is good. I like hot ones. Need you on hot ones. Need you on hot ones. Have I asked? Never, babe. Can I tell you something? It's not because of interest. Or you don't want to do it. Oh, no. I would love to do it. I just, I think I've seen every single episode. That is one of my favorite things. Love the show.

Anything in media, that is one of my favorite things. And Sean Evans, I think, is one of our best interviewers, hands down. Here's an idea. Why don't we do an in-person with Sean Evans for Lost Couch, if he'd be into it, and do it while we do Lost Couch? Good.

Could that work? I think there's something legal there. Like, we can't do hot ones. That's so unfun. What do you mean? No, it's his IP. He has to be protective of it. We understand. But like, look, we get it. Like, look, we can do I Don't Think So Honey on Watch What Happens Live. Sean can't do hot ones on Las Culturistas.

You know what I mean? I think that's in his court. That ball is in his court. And I'm just saying, hold on. Wait, Anna says, he did Hot Ones on Ron Burgundy Live and it was very fun and he was very lovely. Okay, so we're saying he's connected to the family. Just saying, I would be really excited to do Hot Ones.

Of course you would. And Bowen would too. You like spice. Can I tell you? I don't know how much I like spice anymore because I used to identify as like, like I said a couple weeks ago, like a daredevil. And that sometimes included spice. But there are times when I am extremely uncomfortable eating out at certain places where the spice gets involved. God, one thing I was thinking about with you, I was like,

Matt has really gone on this tear about how he would any day rather eat at a restaurant than anyone's home cooking. - 100%. - You are missing out on a world of delight and comfort and love that goes into making food. - People don't cook for me. They don't cook for me. They don't want me to come over here. - Well, they don't cook for you because they're not motivated to cook for you. - Get motivated. I'm available, I'm around.

- No, no, no, no, no. - I would love for a man. - You've disinvited the notion of someone cooking for you. I think that's what you've done. I'm calling you in, babe. - Okay, fine. You're right. - But I did not mean to cut you off. - That's okay. I didn't feel cut off. I didn't feel cut off. - Okay. I just think for that reason,

ironically, you have a comfort with eating. You like to eat what you like to eat. And perhaps that is something that is corralling you within a certain kind of dining experience so that you are not, you maybe are not that adventurous and that's okay. It's okay to not be an adventurous eater. First of all, I resent that part of what you're saying. I am a very adventurous eater. And I would think that you know that because you've frequented many restaurants with me. What I am not is a sharer.

I'm not a sharer. I don't like to share. I actually really don't like a family style situation because I always end up not getting a lot. No. That's true.

We ate at Sal's on the Bay in P-Town. I didn't like that sharing situation. I wanted to have my own entree. We had so many leftovers. It was not that you did not end up with that matrude. There was so much food left over.

It wasn't my preferred thing. Can I tell you my preferred thing? I'm about to go crazy. This is Big Macs and tomatoes all over again. This doesn't make any sense. I'm not gaslighting you at all. I'm telling you the truth, which is I don't like family style. I don't like it. You know what we can share? Apps. You can have a sip of my drink. I want to eat my own entree. I'm sorry. And I also say this.

I don't like it. And you told me your mom does this too. I hate this. I become like a 14 year old when my mother cuts a big piece of her food and just puts it on my plate. And I'm like, don't do that. Even though it's like only benevolent. Why? It's not. I think it's actually toxically benevolent. Oh my God. Toxically benevolent title of app titled up.

My sister and I have had so many conversations with my mom. We're like, mom, it's actually, it ruins the experience. It's to the point of ruin. No, we're like, mom, we don't, we've told you so many, it's a boundary issue, right? We're like, we have told you for decades at this point, please. Before she even, why do all moms do this? Before she even takes action,

A bite. It's because she wants to provide. She wants to check the box of providing because that's important to her. But Matt, she's cutting three quarters of the chicken cutlet and plopping it onto our plates. And meanwhile, we're eating a whole fucking...

Like, yeah, gumbo or something, you know, it's like, hypothetically, we are at Papa Joe's famous New Orleans restaurant, New Orleans style restaurant, Cajun restaurant. And we're just like, mom, stop. It really came to a head at Papa Joe's in Colorado. We were like, mom, you need to eat your own meal first before you share with us. It's not that we are against sharing. Right. Well, at this point, it's less a thing. And this is like a.

anytime anyone like take the mom thing out of it. It's just when you've established that you don't prefer a certain thing to happen and it happens, it then crosses over to, it doesn't matter if it's a nice action. You're just not listening to me. Like I don't want that on my plate. In fact, it's not even that I don't want it because I don't want to eat it. I want you to eat it. That is what you ordered. And I like to, like I've been saying consistent about this. My entree is my entree.

Okay. And you know that because you've gotten your grubbers. I can tell you want a bite of that. You want a quote unquote bite of that often. And you see my face. Is that so wrong? But Bowen, you know better. You know that I want to eat my food. You order it then if you want it so bad. When you pick something on the menu that's your entree, you have made a commitment to that.

But you're operating at a lack of knowledge. Okay. And I'm realizing that as soon as my mom...

I can't believe I'm going here, but as soon as my mom is no longer on this earth with me, it will be the thing that I mourn the most. I'll be like, I wish my mom could plop a chicken cutlet onto my plate. 100%, and we cannot go down this road because I said there'd be no crying. Can't think about that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just had to put that out there because that immediately washed over me. I go, oh my God, what kind of son am I? No, yes, and then you start judging yourself.

and getting angry at yourself for getting annoyed. But it's like, no, I'm annoyed because I was asked a question about something, which is, do you want a piece of this? I said, no, thank you. And then it always is, are you sure? And I'm like, yes, I'm sure. I have all this food in front of me. And then, well, you know my mother.

Like it's always like a conversation with her own self where she's like, well, you know, I'm going to give him a little piece. And then she gives me a little piece and I have to get upset at myself because then I hear the 14 year old come out. Mom, like, you know what I mean? Like you become the young. Yeah. When was your worst age? Oh, when were you most petulant teenage petulance?

I think it was, it's always high school, right? It's usually high school. Middle school for me. For me, I had 13, 14. I was not.

cool to people. Because I hated myself. That was peak hatred of myself. So you're not pointing outward in a good way. No, no, no. No one's the best version of themselves at 13. And that's a rule of culture number eight. Number 13, actually. No one's the best version of themselves at 13. Imagine you were. Dakota Fanning. Oh, stop it. I'm just kidding. She's probably lovely now. I just mean, you know, man on fire. You are

Oh my God. Man on fire. Man on wire. The way we're balancing acting. Now... Well, we love our moms very much. Yes. Okay. Anyway. Do you think our moms will be on the Iconic 400? No. Oh. I do. But can I tell you who might be? Speaking of moms and the performance of a mom, Joan Chen. Oh my God. Thank you for bringing this up. What a segue and a half. I saw Dee Dee.

And what a movie this was. Sean Wang, the director and creator that you are. The director and creator that you are. This was amazing. This was, I haven't seen, obviously like the comp is eighth grade, right? Like by Bo Burnham. Yes, yes. But these movies that like get these performances out of these kids, these like realized, very emotional, grounded performances from these kids. Like it's a genuine journey into what it was like to be a...

millennial in 2007. Like a, you know, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old kid around that time. And just the blast from the past that was the AIM, AOL Instant Messenger stuff. I was like, we have to talk about this. The soundscape that...

When someone logs off and the door shuts, that it was such a trigger. Like I remember I would used to wait for the girls I had crushes on. Yeah. Yeah. Into the thing. And I would like, you know, like have aim conversations with like summer babe 98 XO.

Oh my God. And isn't there a whole smarter child scene in the movie? Oh, there certainly is. Oh my God. That, that hit me hard and soft. Did you used to talk to smarter child when like you could tell people had had it with you? Same. Oh my God. Like I remember I, one time I think I said to smarter child, I have no friends and

And this happens in the movie. And Smart Our Child was like, well, I'm your friend, smiley face. And it's just like, Jesus. It was triggering because it's like, you remember that like instantaneous comfort, but also that feeling of despair when you think that,

that is as big as your life is going to get. You know, like being in middle school and high school and like when you feel like people are mad at you or you made a mistake or you messed up or, you know, just like that feeling of crushing self-hatred and disappointment at that age because your life is only as big as your high school or whatever the fuck. Of course. But like we cannot underplay how important that moment is. I think just in film, like,

Like there's a smarter child scene. I don't think this is the first time we've seen smarter child on film and television, but there's something about that moment in the movie. Spoiler alert, but there's just, we're not spoiling it, but there's just like a, you know, second act low point for the character. Yes. And he, in his desperation, in his despair talks to smarter child. And I'm like, this is something that all of us thought was just specific and individual to us.

It was a thing where I was like, this could have only happened to me, but this is being used as a plot turning point in a way that is supposed to be universal. And like, it is like Sean Wang being like, I know this has happened to everyone who was growing up at that time. You know what I mean? That's, I think that's incredible. The ping of like a new chat window, like, not the, not the low xylophone, but the, yeah,

Like, so evocative, so emotional. - I mean, kudos to whoever sound designed that for AOL. You know what I mean? Like, going back, like that's forever. Also, there's a moment where Myspace comes into play.

And do you remember the top eight? Top eight. Top eight. Don't even. The top eight would eat your ass up. I remember they were friends of mine that would deliberately fuck with me. Of course. I would be like number six and then I'd be gone. And I'd be like, why is this person on there and not me? And just like eight, the number eight.

was hard because you either had four friends or ten friends. You know what I'm saying? It's like no one ever just had like eight friends that fit neatly in there. It was like you either had a few and then you had to fill it out or you had a ton and you had to cut people. And then what do you do? Oh, I was definitely like...

Well, I've got these three and then the five, the other five are cannon fodder. I wasn't thinking in those terms, obviously, but it's like that number dictated everything. And your place, like I ate, like it's. Is eight the most important number? I think so. And, you know, Schoolhouse Rock had, I think the eight song for Schoolhouse Rock was like,

Sort of the most beautiful and magical and important. I don't remember it. Can you perform it? It's sung from the point of view of a girl who is skating. Okay. This is how it goes. I'm doing this from memory. Okay. Or rather full, figure full, or rather eight. If you skate, it would be great. If you could make a figure eight. One times eight is eight.

2 times 8 is 16. 3 times 8 is 24. 4 times 8 is 32. And 5 times 8 is 40, you know. The sensation I feel is like I'm being tickled. Oh no, ASMR, you got the tingles. That was really evocative. I can do the whole thing, but I won't.

No, there's no falsetto. Oh, yeah, that's my falsetto. I thought you meant vibrato. No, there's no vibrato. There was a little bit of vibrato, but anyway, besides that point, that was wild. Back to Deedee. Yes, back to Deedee. The top eight moment in the film is huge. Oh, my God. Did you ever put in the code so you could have a top 16? No, I didn't know the code. That's so you-coded.

You knowing the code is bone coded. No, no, no. That's as far as my coding went. But like there was like a thing you could cut. Like a thing went around school one day of like, oh, well, Kayla knows like the HTML so you can get a top 16. Oh, damn. I remember, oh my God, like every white girl having the Ben Folds 5 cover of Bitches Ain't Shit.

Where, I'm sorry, but this man is fully saying the N-word earnestly. Like, it's like, this is such a moment in time. Do you want to know what my song was? My space song was the entire time? Tell me. Ashley Simpson. This is from memory. No, it was never Ashley Simpson because I could never be that outwardly gay. Right, right, right.

If I die and go to hell real soon, it will appear to me as this room. And for eternity, I'd lay in bed in my boxers half stone with a pillow under my head. Say anything, bitch. I think that is the most tasteful choice. No, but can I tell you what that...

to me. What? You were sure of yourself. Maybe you don't feel that way, but at least you were like... You did not have the identity crisis that the rest of us had where we were changing our song every other day. And I cannot tell you any of the songs that I had on because I was... I did not know who the hell I was. And it just ran the gamut. Well, I'll be honest. I knew who I wasn't. And I'll tell you who I wasn't. I was not...

A, someone who was like ready to come out and put Behind These Hazel Eyes on there because that's what it would have been. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. But I also was not the kind of person that was like going to put Postal Service on there. I was like, this is boring to me. See, that was me. Such Great Heights was the song. See, I didn't get it, but I so got this. I can't hear. You can't hear it? Unfortunately, no. Wait, let me play it on my phone then. I don't think so many Zoom like

filtering out, selectively filtering out some other external sounds. It's like, sometimes we need to hear what's being, what the dog is barking. I have to tell you, the people that are going to come out of the woodwork after I play this, like, I know this is going to connect me with so many people. You're going to be triggered in a positive way. Ready? And I want to see your face when I play it. Pfft, pfft.

That is... Oh my God. That album was huge.

Oh my God. Called her on the phone and she touched herself. Oh my God, bitch. That's when I should have been putting out music. So I got no voice today. None of those guys that put out music then have any voice today. Like where's Ryan from yellow card? Wow. We have wild away the minutes. I'm sorry. I'm just looking at the time. Time is fine while we're having fun. Exactly. But yes, I mean, just even seeing the MySpace thing and seeing the song and everything like that, I was like,

So taken back. And that was culture. I mean, that was the beginning. Yeah, that was the beginning. That was when we were...

In the wild, wild west, like, totally, like, unsupervised. Like, our parents didn't really know, like, what the hell we were up to on the computer. No. Like, my dad would sign me in. Like, I remember he would have to come down to the downstairs computer or downstairs desktop, and he would sign me into AOL, and then he would leave. Right. And I would be on there all fucking day. I'd be in the weirdest chat rooms. Yeah. Oh, trust me. I...

Yeah, it went to bad places in those chat rooms. 100%. Remember ASL? I would lie. I would lie. I'm 22. I was eight. 22F Miami. And I would fully have cyber sex with these men.

Oh my God. Now, I would love to read that now looking back, like you creating what you think would be sexy and hot to hear. Like, yeah, I love when you touch my boob. Yeah. My dry vagina is on your ass. You didn't even know to call it dry. No, but it's like, my vagina is getting tickly. Yeah.

I'm starting to feel really good in my vagina. Us pretending to be sexually active women. I mean, look, look, all gender is performance. So I, I really want to point out this moment in the movie though, where like, and I think this is kind of like the whole thing about that film is like,

where it's like he has a crush at school and then they strike up this conversation online. And then she basically says, you're cute for an Asian guy. And I don't think there's any scoring. It's just this character sitting alone in a silent room, internalizing this really important formative moment where someone is like flirting with him, paying him a compliment, but like there's an asterisk and it's about race and like all this other shit. But it's like, there's no like filmically,

There's like no sound. There's no dialogue. He has no response. Like it's just all completely again, internal. And I'm like, that is like the millennial experience in a lot of ways for everybody, not just Asian people. It's like, there's something about that where like you are receiving, you're letting these emotional moments land and,

with no way to displace them, to like transfer them over to something else, to like, there's no, it ends with you. You are the final receptacle for that kind of thing. And it has to fuck you up. Like that is a crazy thing. You know, the racial hierarchy was such an unchecked given at that time. But I'm not even

saying that I'm just saying like you probably like had moments online where like someone rejected you or someone made you feel like shit well yes but just to give that moment the weight that it deserves which is that it is a movie about an Asian kid and an Asian family and he is living his experience as and like basically you're watching this film and you're just watching a kid you of course you know you're sitting there and you're with him and then he has this moment

which is this girl says, and there's been nothing negative about this girl. You just think she's a sweet kid. They're having a sweet conversation. And she just comes out and says, you're pretty cute for an Asian. And it's, it's like you said, it's just presented in the way that it's said. And,

it doesn't even really land on him in like an extra way. He just internalizes it and hears it. And then they move on. Oh, but it's the first moment of the movie where you're like, we're really starting to see the coming of age. We'll start to turn here. Yeah. And it's a really, I mean, it was amazing scripting. It was amazing directing. It was amazing acting. Yeah. But what an important moment, because yes, while, while you are correct that like,

Everyone, based on their own identity, receives their own microaggressions. We saw a formative moment in that kid's life that is in many ways like the... And I hate these two words, but the why now, why today of that movie in that he's literally...

going through changes. His sister's leaving for school. He's going to go to the high school. And he's now interacting with other people in this way that brings in the romantic and the sexual when all these kids are forming. And this is the idea that she spits out very naturally, which is that I am attracted to you despite your limitation in my eyes. And that is really startling.

And obviously comes from a very real place that I know my entire theater, no one was breathing. It was a moment that I will remember for sure. I mean, you're so right though about this thing of like, we just move on from it. It doesn't even land on him fully or in an extra way. It's like, but I think that's kind of like what's being, what the statement is, is that this human being is just going to like live the rest of his life with that feeling

pseudo acceptance, not quite acceptance, but not quite rejection. It's like, what's going on there? I mean, like this connects to like my day today. The first thing I woke up to on my phone was some fucking idiot on Scruff. I'm on the apps. You can hit me up. I'm, you can reach out to me. I'm accessible, but some fucking idiot on Scruff going, oh my God, Joel Kim booster. I love your work. And then what I immediately said to him was, dude, that fucking sucks. When I call you, dude, I'm pissed off. Oh, I hate dude. I,

I hate dude. But if I call you dude, yeah. Anyway, I was just like, dude, that fucking sucks. And then he unfurls this huge apology where he was like, oh, I'm, you know, I, I'm so sorry. I should have known better. Both you and Joel have like expressed like, you know, you guys don't like here. And I'm like,

And I didn't even respond. And then he ends this whole pod being like, anyway, I'm so sorry. You have to deal with mid-white guys like me saying stupid shit like this. And I'm like, see, now you're making this thing. I have to assuage you. No, no fucking way. See, here's the thing. Oh, here comes the fucking rage. When you have fucked up, when you have fucked up and your instinct is to then

try and create a situation where you are the victim because you fucked up, you need help. And I cannot give it to you. Once you've hurt me, I don't owe you shit, bitch. I don't owe you shit once you have hurt me. Period dot. And I know, and this is something, this is writ small, something that you know all too well. Because I will forgive everyone but myself.

And no, if someone ever like someone approaches you like that with that stupid fucking like whether it's a joke or whatever it is like genuine misconception or joke. It doesn't fucking matter at this point. You fucked up. I told you you fucked up and you knew you fucked up because I said the word dude, which I hate. Right.

and now it's mid-white guys like me you're exactly right and keep it moving I don't need to now comfort you no like it's over you hurt me you did something fucked up you're right you do suck move on keep it moving go be unhappy over there I didn't do shit to you I did not start this internet conversation with you

to make you feel bad, even though like, like this is the thing now, it's like now we kind of know how to deal with this and like, you know, the way the internet works today. But it's like in that movie, it's like in the nascent period of the internet of the way that like we were communicating, we had no idea what the rules were and like what the differences were in real life interaction. It's like, God, like, thank God we've come a long way. Thank God I've come a long way personally in my life to know, to like respond to someone who like says something racially stupid like that and be like,

dude, just have some tact. And I guess tact is subjective, but I'm also like, maybe it's not. Like, bring back etiquette. Can I ask you something? Yeah. If I were to approach you on the dating app, not me, whatever, like some handsome guy, let's say I'm a little bit over perfectly mid-white guy. Ready? And I approach you on the dating app and this is my opening line. What do you say? Hey,

I just want to tell you, I think you're amazing. I think you're so great and so funny. Like, what about that? And then it segues into like, what are you up to? Like, or something like that. Just starting a conversation. So lovely. Oh my God. Or are you like, or do you feel perceived and seen and you're like, ugh. No, I mean, it depends. Like, I just don't know when someone is like,

which is so kind of them. I just don't know like, oh, I just don't know if you're flirting with me. And so therefore I'll just thank you and then keep it moving. That is what's frustrating, right? Like it's like, cause the deal is like, if you were on a dating app, like people, they do know who you are. You know what I'm saying? Cause it's like,

So you don't even have the thing of like, do they know or do they not know or are they interested or are they not? It's like they know who Bowen Yang is. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, so that first interaction is a little bit loaded. And on top of like the rest of it,

At rest anyway, which is weird being on dating apps. Exactly. It's fine. There's nothing to do about it. Yeah, I don't even know what my question is. I'm just saying don't make a joke to Bowen Yang, especially if it's one that's like... Well, don't make a joke to me that's about... Race. Race. And about, yeah. Like, don't like...

Because that's a fucking twofer. Because that like makes me feel like shit and it would. And now that I'm even bringing this up, it's like, I don't want to like scare people. Like Joel's going to feel like shit, you know? The world is constantly changing. It's up to you to decide how to respond. Choose to be bold, to try something new. Choose to reinvent yourself. That's what Nissan did with the all new, totally reimagined Kicks. The dynamic new exterior styling immediately announces that Nissan isn't messing around. And of the interior?

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Let's just cleanse this conversation and just quickly give Joan Chen her flowers. Oh my God. Because this is the segue in. I want you to tell me what you love about Joan Chen. What I love about Joan Chen. What I love about Joan Chen. What an amazing...

human actor on screen. Like so real, so genuine, so funny, but also very heartbreaking, carried a really tough emotional weight throughout a lot of work to do in that performance, playing a woman who really every single day does her best until it just becomes

Too much. And without saying too much, like, there's a breaking point in the movie between mother and son, which I just really... It's such an important, beautiful relationship, the relationship between a mother and a son, especially when the son is struggling. Because...

There's a lack of knowing, but there's a deep understanding. And it's just so beautifully done in this movie. And there's a moment of humor in the car. You remember what I'm talking about. Which is just played so well. And also, to be the adult on set working with a child actor and largely with child actors...

It's sort of similar to what I was saying last week about Coleman Domingo working with people, you know, formerly incarcerated men who were in that movie who are non-professional actors. It's like, you have to be really special talent, right?

to make an atmosphere for people that are not used to that feel good enough that they can not only perform, but excel. To make it truly horizontal, to make it like everyone's on the same level. That is my compliment to Joan Chen, is how incredible that kid's performance was. Yeah. All of her scene partners benefit from being in a scene with her. And I just think that...

If we're talking about supporting performances, like, I would love to see a performance like this get recognition by awards bodies. I think you might. I would like to see it go all the way because this is the kind of talent that we should be seeing more of. Like, I want to see her lead something. You know, I want to see her do a million different types of roles because...

Even in this, you know, archetypical part, there is so much dynamic work being done, bringing so much more to the page. And she's funny and really heartbreaking. And she feels like a real mom, you know? Yeah. There's a great piece on her. There's a great profile on her in Vanity Fair.

And I think awards buzz is kind of a thing with this for her, with this movie. And this is someone who, God, she was telling me, she directed this film called Shoo Shoo, The Sent Down Girl. It's about this program that happened during the Cultural Revolution when kids from the city were sent to the countryside to like work on, to basically like work in rural areas, provincial areas,

to do hard labor for a full year. My mom did that, and she talks about it like a trauma. It is a traumatic moment in her life. It's a hard-to-watch film. It's very 30 Rock hard-to-watch, starring Tracy Morgan, starring Tracy Jordan. They shot it in Tibet, I want to say.

And she was just telling us stories on the set of Wedding Bank where she was smuggling film out because she was like, if the Chinese government sees this, they will not let this movie go, be released. And this is a fucking badass renegade director, like a true renegade. And I use that word

I do not use that word lightly. Icon, Last Emperor, Twin Peaks, which is like a big blind spot for us. We should be Twin Peaks gays. I think maybe that's like a thing we should embark on. Yeah, honestly, I'm interested in becoming a Twin Peaks gay, I'd say. All Twin Peaks gays seem with it. Anyway, Joan Chen... Seem with it. Seem with it, but Joan Chen, I think there's a renaissance coming. She... And to say nothing of her, like...

I'm sorry, shallow gay nonsense, true beauty. She is like... Yeah, she's stunning. A stunning beauty. It's crazy. And she is just incredible in The Wedding Banquet. And she is...

Equal parts funny, devastating. She was the funniest person on set. She is. That is a funny motherfucker, Joan Chen. And you can quote me on that. Write about that. Write that up, Entertainment Weekly. Okay, anyway. Go see Deedee in theaters. Yeah, there are a million reasons to go see this movie. And we've listed just a few of them. But yeah, you gotta go. I actually ran into Mitra. Mitra was there in the theater. And I believe she loved it a lot. Mitra. I fucking love Mitra.

We're Mitra stans. We are Mitra stans. Sean Wang, we applaud you. Also, everyone go check out his Oscar-nominated short, documentary short, Nine, Nine, Why Poor?, which is on Disney+. And the grandmother in Didi is his real grandmother who was in the documentary. And it's 17 minutes, so heartwarming, so beautiful, beautifully shot. Anyway, that's it. I am an official huge fan. And I wanted to say two things. The reason I was singing Dreaming by Blondie at the top was because

I saw the most amazing trailer for a movie I'm so excited about called Onora, which is Sean Baker's movie. Oh, I can't wait for Onora. To speak of another Sean. And I love Sean Baker's movies. I fucking love his movie. I loved Red Rocket. Like, wild. I love Simon Rex. That movie was fucking crazy. And what I want to say is that this trailer fucking nailed it with their song choice because it's like a deconstructed version of Dreaming by Blondie.

Which is such an incredible song. And we talked about it earlier. But that trailer... That's one of the best trailers I've seen in a really long time. And this Mikey Madison girl...

She might have it all the way. She might have it all the way. I'm excited. I'm excited about this movie. I think there's going to be a groundswell for Mikey. I think she's going to be the girl. She seems to me like one of the new girls. She seems like the Chapel Rona film. Yes. And you called it. I might have to make that a rule of culture now. That might be rule of culture number 40.

Mikey Madison is the Chapel Rona film. Not called it. She's about to become one of the girls really fast. Really fast. So just watch for that. And the second thing I wanted to say was you mentioned on Disney that there was, you know, his short.

And that brings me to, I wanted to talk about the D23 announcements. Oh, please. I would love your takes. Fire and ash. Let's go. First of all, Avatar 3, fire and ash. It's not called the seed bearer, maybe because they thought it was a little bit, it conjured up images of breeding too much. But, um,

Yes, obviously, as you know, I don't know about Frozen 3. I guess we'll see. It really was just like March of the sequels in terms of what they announced. In terms of film, I don't care that much. You know what I deeply care about is the theme parks. Yes. Did you see what they have rolled out? Because... You need to tell me. $60 billion are going into the Disney theme parks over the next several years. And...

This is just a few of the things that they announced. Okay, so Disney California Adventure is getting a ton of shit. Like, they are getting a new Avatar world that is going to be based in the Way of Water and Fire and Ash, which is yet to come. But there's going to be a state-of-the-art...

boat ride, which you got to go on and check out this concept art. I mean, the money is... The budget is so insane. So the California Adventure, I don't know where, but they're getting Avatar. They're also getting a Coco boat ride. It will be the first Coco theme park attraction in Disney. I love that. Outside of that, Magic Kingdom is getting Cars, not Radiator Springs Racers. So just beyond Big Thunder Mountain, they're going to do Cars. It's going to be a Cars ride. And then behind that...

They are doing a Villain's Land. So this is going to be like literally at the back of the Magic Kingdom. It's going to be like their answer to Dark Universe, I guess. I knew it was coming because I was like, I know they're not just going to let Universal just have...

Darkness. Darkness. Not when Universal... And not when Disney has all this... They're so famous for the villains. They should do something with the villains. So they finally are. Apparently, there's going to be one huge e-ticket roller coaster and then one ride, which may not be as big a deal as that, but that incorporates all of the villains.

I'm thinking that Maleficent will factor in big, but that is like the last thing on the agenda. And we'll see if they even get to it. Like Disney has a history, a recent history of announcing a lot of things and then bailing on a lot of it. So we'll see if any of this even happens, but they are saying this is not blue sky. This is now active development. And this includes too. This is the craziest thing. This might be you and me coded in Hollywood studios. Yeah.

Toy Story Land has been such a hit. There's going to be a podcast ride. It's Last Culture's Ride. No. I would love to see Last Culture's Ride. We need to do Last Culture's Ride. It would be a dueling roller coaster. It would be a dueling launch roller coaster. Journey Through Culture. Journey Through Culture. Oh, no. The rules of culture have all been lost. We have to go get them, guys. That's so good. And then, like, you go. No one knows this is part of the podcast. It's behind the scenes. But the ride launches after Bowen Yang on Zoom goes,

And then it goes ding dong and you zip out.

Anyway, what I was going to say is it's so cunty. There's a Monsters, Inc. land with a Monsters, Inc. suspended roller coaster, which is based on the, you know, that scene where they go on the doors and they fly through. That's I've been waiting for a roller coaster based on that for 20 years. And they're doing it. They're actually doing it. It feels like fan service. I'm like, this is 20 years too late. But thank God, because this is.

That's going to be really good. No, that's going to be great. But also this just makes me go, Matt Rogers needs to enter his Kingdom Hearts era because Kingdom Hearts 3, you go to Monsters Inc. and Monstropolis, they say, and then like writing the doors is a whole thing. Yes. I know the feeling of writing the doors, not spatially, but in video game, which is pretty close. Anyway, I want to know more. I will look into it. So basically, okay, so just to return to California Adventure, the Avengers...

e-ticket ride. They're finally pulling the trigger on that, I guess. Like, they've been threatening for years because that Avengers campus in California Adventure feels like it's really missing something because it is.

So they're getting a huge e-ticket that's going to basically use like the multiverse, of course. And it's going to be like an Avengers, like larger grand scheme Marvel ride that will probably use like literally everyone. And then outside of that animal kingdom, they are going to redo the dinosaurs land. And that's going to be Indiana Jones themed. It's going to be themed to tropical Americas. So there's going to be a Moana attraction finally.

and there's it's like an OmniMover there's gonna be a Palm Springs attraction you're gonna go sit at the bar at Tropical and get really tan that's tropical America you actually age 60 years in three and a half minutes and Vicki Gundleson is sitting outside at a table

Have we ever said on the podcast at the time we went to Tropical and Vicky Gunvalson was just there, the OG of the OC? And then we were all, Mitra was there too. And then we were all so stoned. And then there was an earthquake. There was an earthquake. Yeah. We were at the same restaurant as Vicky Gunvalson when the earthquake hit in Palm Springs. Wow. By the way, there was an earthquake just now. I know. Wait, I was going to check in. No. Yeah. Matt's driving. It was, it's, it's,

I never feel them. It's so weird. I don't know why. I just never feel them. And then I look at my text and my friends are going off, like screaming, like doing the thing with all caps, exclamation points, earthquake. Like imagine just seeing that and you felt nothing. I have a theory as to why you don't feel. Oh God. I wish I didn't feel sometimes. I think you have shock absorption all in the ass. You're obsessed with my ass lately.

I'm sorry. I have to gas up my sister. You really think it's looking good. I work on it. I think the butt is taking all of the earthquake. I think you are helping. Thank God. That's why we need to keep me on Earth because I need to soak up this absorption with, I guess, which is now... It's now qualified as dad-ass.

It's not just Matt's ass anymore. It's now dad ass. I mean, to say nothing of your behind, which I've noticed has gotten larger. No, you don't have to. We don't have to do this. See, how come you're allowed to do it with me and I can't do it with you? Well, I feel like you must have felt set up to, you know, compliment my ass. No, what happened was we were going to Jimmy Kimmel Live and we were wearing those tracksuits and I was walking behind you and I was like, oh my God, your ass.

Because it was popping because you had told me about the glute bridges. Yeah. But that was the same time. I think I had previously, before you pointed out my ass, I went, Matt.

No, it was after. I don't think so. You said something about my ass literally like 13 years ago. We were in rehearsal for Pop Roulette. And I remember you just threw out there. You were like, Matt has the best ass. And I remember being like, oh my God. Like, cause I had never really heard that before. And then years passed. And then we were walking to Jimmy Kimmel and you made a comment about my ass. And I was just like, all right,

Am I allowed to compliment? I love it. I think it's great. It's very encouraging for me. It means I would like to continue the glute bridges and all the work I'm doing at the great institution, Barry's. We love you, Barry's. I'm obsessed. I'm there every day except one day. I really shouldn't be doing it every single day, but I'm obsessed.

Everyone has called me in and said 75 Heart is structured exercise and eating disorder. And listen, you might not be wrong, but I also, I think for now it's just laying the groundwork for some healthier choices and habits. I'm not going to do this for all time.

So I hear you. I hear you. Listen, sometimes you have to go a little far and then pull it back. I often don't think it's a bad thing, no matter what it is. With diet, it's always like you could always err on the side of your probably being too hard on yourself. But I think with any goal setting, it's okay to start in a more extreme loftier goal and then see where you fall. You know? I think that's better. It's shooting for the moon, landing amongst the stars, and...

The diet thing is the thing that I'm the least strict on. I'm eating very well. As you should. So it's okay. And guess what? Guess where that goes? The ass. Yeah. So just think about that a little bit. Wanted to say we had a wonderful time on Watch What Happens Live. We met. I had met her before, but watching your reaction to Brynn Whitfield coming in was so fun. You were... Ugh.

You were joyful. She's everything. She's everything. Our Jessica Rabbit.

She's everything. Okay? And if you think we didn't get all the tea about Roni season two, you're wrong. And guess what? Brienne is going to come on the pod. We're going to figure it out for September. And we're excited about that. It's happening. And we're selective with the housewives, just saying. Very. But that was a moment where we were like, I mean, we have to spend more time with this woman. We have to. She's just mesmerizing. And it was real.

It's real. Okay. So she's coming on. It was very real. Like it's giving parv actually. Yes. Oh my God. That's it. I was like, who does she remind me of? It's parv. It's that parv energy. It's because it's sheer, sheer star quality combined with that flirtatious energy.

flirtatious straight woman flirting with us which I love it's not like pandering to like it's not like not at all first of all we need to come up with a new I think there is a cultural conversation happening right now where everyone's like we need a new term instead of fag hag because it's demeaning to both to all involved I haven't said fag hag in 15 years there's just gotta be a different word that is like Judy sure let's say Judy

It's Judy quality. We liked her a lot. We liked her a lot. But it's parv. It's totally parv. Also, can I say, usually the Teresa people are like really noxious to me after I'm on Watch What Happens Live because I don't make any qualms about what I think.

It's very soft this time because I can tell they're defeated. Yeah, she's a fucking... Look, I fully said she has a lobe missing. You sure did. And I'm not hearing a peep from these freaks. Yeah, we're all set with our opinion. Also, can I say, Teresa Giudice is a Trump supporter who was married to Joe Giudice, so none of us should be surprised that Louis is toxic and horrible. This woman does not know what it is like

to not participate in a noxious, toxic, patriarchal culture. It's a failing of the environment that she came up in. Totally. I came up in a very similar one, so I do have a bird's eye on it. Like, this is someone... She advances that. She expands that environment. Sorry, I cut you off. Yeah, she did nothing to...

curb anything make it better and now it's like now you can even see in this last season like gia is gonna move in with her boyfriend right away and she's like teresa's like i just wish she'd live alone because i never lived alone it's because like she knows that her life could have been different had she maybe stepped out and been you know her own person for a while like maybe now she wouldn't be literally shriveling losing weight anxious like dying because her like

new husband is dealing with legal shit left and right because probably there's something going on there. And my big thing too, is it's like, why are we so comfortable just calling Louie's ex crazy? Like no one wants to wonder about why she's has these problems. Like no one wants to take all these people coming out of the woodwork seriously. Like no one thinks no one that's team Teresa thinks that Louie's

There's not something smoke and fire about the whole Louis thing. Like, really? But these people are morons. No, exactly. I mean, that is like the classic biggest red flag. It's like, oh, you're dating someone or you're with someone and

all the X's are quote unquote crazy. Me thinks not. The red flags couldn't be clearer and you hate to see it. You hate to see it. It's red flags. It's crimson banners. Sometimes something's bigger than a red flag and it's a crimson banner. And to be honest with you, those are even harder to clock. When something is so crazy, it's,

that it's beyond a red flag it's a crimson banner you actually think like oh well this can't this this must be the way that this needs to be dealt with because it's so huge you know what i mean like this can't be a red this isn't this this is just like a necessary like thing i'm putting myself through because it's so crazy i think that's what's happening with louis

But it's not like little tiny things like, oh, that's weird the way they talk to the waiter or, oh, that's weird. Like they didn't know this about, you know, someone they're supposed to be close to, you know, that's weird. Like they a little white lie about this thing that I caught them in. That's weird. It's like those are sometimes easier to track. And the big things are like, well, yeah, I mean, yeah.

It's a big thing. Well, the big things for this guy are he's literally saying in the finale, I hope Marge's children, her son suffers as much as I have suffered. Don't wish that upon a fucking kid. Don't wish that upon someone who's like of a different generation. It's like, don't, don't. Just that's fucking wild.

Anyway, I don't want to talk about these people. He's the worst person on television and would love to not watch him anymore. I'm totally okay. Whatever happens with Jersey, God bless. Let's give this a Viking funeral. Shoot our fiery arrow into the sky. I did that in my mentally with Potomac. I'm like, my life has been a mess.

A million times better without Giselle Bryant and Ashley Darby and all these other fucking people. Mia Thornton. Like, I don't miss these people for shit. I mean, the fact is, though, they will be back. No, I know, but it's not going to be in my life. I won't be back as long as they're on the show.

I'm sorry, I just won't. Look, there are bad people in that little environment. We love all those people in Bravo land, but there are people that are concentric circles around that, that I'm like, oh, I am not getting anywhere near y'all. Say no more, because I learned that the hard way.

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My Mama Told Me presents the Start the Steal Tour.

We're very excited about it. I'm not about to bite my tongue. We want to sell it out and the dates are coming up fast. And so if you live in one of these areas, we want you to buy your tickets now. It's all available on our Instagrams, on our website.

our websites on our link tree, but you can see us in Washington, DC on October 10th, Chicago, October 13th, October 17th. We're in LA at, in Hollywood. We'll be in Atlanta on Halloween, October 31st. We want y'all to come out. We want y'all to kick it. We will be doing our coveted live show live.

with special guests, with just me and David, depending on the city. It'll be a great time. All that meet and greets. You think Chris Brown has a good meet and greet? Bro, let's be clear. I'll take a weird picture with you for free.

All right, so let's get into I Don't Think So Honey before we actually do that with our life. And I have something to say. Okay, this is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey. His time starts now. I Don't Think So Honey that Barack Obama actually listens to the song 365 by Charlie XCX, which he would suggest when he put out his Barack Obama summer playlist. Barack Obama, listen to me. Maybe Von Dutch.

Maybe 360. But I do not think that you, Barack Obama, former president Barack Obama, listened to 365, and I think you need to just pull it back a little bit. You really... You went too hard. Like, the intern jumped out. I understand we're having a Brad Summer. We're all very excited about Kamala. You showed your ass there. Yeah. Because I know that you're not listening to that song, which is mostly about doing keys and bumps. I know.

I just don't buy it for you, Barack. And I wouldn't want to. I'll tell you who I buy on your list. Lucinda Williams. Of course. That's giving me Barack. Her. Five seconds. I see that. I stand as well. CharlieXCX is 365. Maybe Von Dutch. 365, I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute.

Anything Barack and AG cook, the dare doesn't really, I'm not seeing it. And that's a very highly curated, anticipated list. Like whenever his shit comes out, that's like, this is my favorite movies of the year. They always make the rounds. And I'm like, I've always bought it and been like, oh, cool. Until I saw 365 by Charlie XX. And I was like, no, someone on your team said this should be on there. You don't like the song. Going back to Alanis, not authentic.

I mean, he could never be Alanis. And I say this as a Barack fan. Read the status and culture book. There's a whole thing. It's signaling and authenticity plays into it. And it's like when you spot the inauthentic thing like that, it's game over. Like,

We might be seeing that. I don't know. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, if it was Von Dutch by Charlie XCX, I'd be like, okay. If it was Girl So Confusing, I would be like, yes. 365, I don't know. And if someone, I welcome proof. I think readers, Katie's Poppins is finalists. Yeah, weigh in. Do we think Barack Obama, the 44th president of the United States, has, like me, listened in a ketamine stupor to 365 and understood what's going on there?

I guess that's another thing too, is it's like, it's so it would suggest he understands that culture in a way where I'm like, maybe how do you, even if you do, I don't want to hear about it. You know what I'm saying? It's like,

I don't need to know that Barack is that cool. You know what I'm saying? It's like, if that's what he thinks cool is, it rubbed me. I was like, I just don't. It's just sometimes it's, I felt for a couple of years, it's been giving Steve Buscemi like meme. How do you do fellow kids? How do you do fellow kids? Anyways, this is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. Are you ready to go? I'm ready to go.

And Bowen Yang's time starts now. I don't think so, honey. I know there is a Lego version of Fanny in the Wicked Lego collection that is coming out. Listen, I'm buying it. I'm going to buy it for my nieces and my nephew. But I know there's a Fanny Lego and it's not being sold. And I'm a little hurt. And listen, I'm an ancillary character, but I think I...

Look, they're using me in some of the trailers. I'm in the Fiero trailer. Every trailer! That I improvised. And I kind of think Fanny is going to slay. And the people are going to want a Fanny Lego. Trust and believe. I'm going to say, I'm going to advocate for myself and gas myself up. Fanny is a fucking legend.

I'm so proud of what we did with Fanny. I'm laughing because it's just funny to say. But I would love to see the Fanny Lego. Look, they did a whole Lego Fanny trailer, right? I'm sorry, they did a whole Lego trailer to the long extended trailer of Wicked. And Fanny has, there's a cutaway to Fanny and Chen Chen. I know there's a Fanny Lego. I would love to see the Fanny Lego sold in stores. And that's one minute. And let me just agree that

roundly that we need to see a Lego Bowen Yang S Fanny. Please. At least limited edition. You know what I mean? At least for a short time only. You know what I'm saying? At least produce enough so that people can get them as a collector's thing. Who doesn't want a little Lego Bowen? Are you kidding? Funny collector's item. Me with that cunty little hair and glasses. Like, come on. It's good hair. This is not masturbatory. It's just like, I think that would be a fun Lego. I think it would be great.

Come on. I think it would be great. By the way, that was a good trailer and I had been waiting for more Johnny. Oh, the character triggers me. The character triggers me. Fiyero triggers you? Wait, oh, because you read for it. I don't like that kind of guy. No, no, no, not because I read for it. Please.

I did read for that part. You did read for it. But like, don't like that guy. Don't like that guy, Fiyero. He's up to no good. He gets his comeuppance. He sure does. Turns to straw. Like all narcissists should. Um...

I'm sure it'll be wonderful. Looks good. Looks good, that JB. You know, they sent me the Drink Your Milk shirt. I have the Drink Your Milk shirt. Me too. Thank you, Lueve. Thank you, Jonathan Anderson. We should wear it when Jon comes on the podcast. We should wear it. We definitely should. And anyone who is out there playing Final Fantasy XIV...

Breeders' Kitties help us as finalists to play Final Fantasy XIV. I do think there should be a subgroup of gamers, as I know y'all are out there because we're connecting. So Jonathan Bailey does a voice in Final Fantasy XIV.

Oh, fun. As Grahatia, the prime cat boy, the crystal exarch. And he's so good in it. And I literally like... Massive talent. Wonderful actor. But like the dialogue in that game is like Shakespearean. It's beautiful. But one day after we reacted, I was like, Jonathan? Johnny? As I call him? I said, I have to...

I was like, I have to implore you. Because every two years they come out with expansions and it's like more and more story. And it's like a TV show, basically. And I'm like, Johnny, you have to keep voicing Grahatia for as long as you are working, for as long as they ask you, because it is some of your best work. Anyway. What did he say? He said, all right. I don't really know what it is. I just, but I read the dialogue and it's amazing. But I think...

We will ask, when Jonathan Bailey comes on Lost Gulch, there will be a dedicated section about Final Fantasy XIV and all the Catboy lovers will be very happy. And he is coming on. We're going to have many people from the cast of Wicked. If you can believe, we have vested interest in that movie's success. And we will make sure it succeeds. We will make sure it makes back every dollar of the budget. Ha!

We are going to make sure that Wicked makes it over the hill. Trust and believe. And it starts with Johnny Bailey on the podcast. And more to come. And more to come. If you can kind of guess. Yeah. This has been another episode of Lost Culture Recess and a little teaser for Iconic 400, which I think we should get to work on, which is not to say, oh, I'm just kidding. The list is already locked. We know the entire list already. And we will be revealing that in the coming weeks, won't we?

For sure. And that's something we can do remotely, so. But we're going to be together actually shortly. Oh, we just talked about how we're not going to be together, but we are going to be together for like two weeks. Did you know that? Let's figure something out. Because you're coming to LA, then we're going to Fire Island, and then I'm going to be in New York. Yeah. So we're together a lot. Quite a bit, actually. Working hard to bring you guys content, in fact. We're working very hard. This is a very fruitful time, and we are taking advantage of it. Trying to right some wrongs. Oh. Well...

We end every episode with a song. No one burns the wind. We get on board. We get on board.

Look for that one on November 27th. 22nd. 22nd? Oh, they changed it? They changed it. They moved it up. Ariana, I think, said 27th on Hot Ones. No, she said 22nd. 22nd? Oh, sorry. Hold on, let's see. No, no, hold on. November 22nd because they moved it up so that it's up like Wikkiator. And now it's Glicked. Glicked.

Click it. No, is it Wickedator? It needs to be click it. Okay, click it. Click it. Jiminy, click. Bye. Bye. And our music is by Henry Komerski.

Welcome to the Cooper residence. Cooper McAllister. I'm surprised you put my name first. Come on in. From the brains behind the Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon, CBS is excited to welcome back some beloved, familiar folks. I am so glad that you and Cece are here. And Georgie. Atta girl. It's a whole new chapter. Georgie and Mandy's first marriage premieres CBS Thursday, 8, 7 Central and streaming on Paramount+.

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