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cover of episode The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke | Guilty as Sin | 7

The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke | Guilty as Sin | 7

2024/6/17
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The Rise and Fall of Ruby Franke

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#relationship dynamics and dating#legal insights#religious studies#social issues#parenting practices and challenges#healing from past relationships#moral and ethical considerations#criminal justice People
C
Carl Anderson
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Jeremy Diaz
J
Jesse Weber
J
Jessie Hildebrandt
J
Jordan Forsyth
M
McKay Forsyth
P
Paula Barros
Topics
@Paula Barros 梳理了Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt的虐童案始末,包括案件细节、受害者经历、法律程序以及社会影响。她详细描述了受害儿童遭受的各种虐待,包括身体上的殴打、禁食禁水、睡眠剥夺、精神上的控制和洗脑等。她还采访了受害者的亲属和相关人士,揭露了犯罪嫌疑人的恶行,并探讨了案件对社会和网络的影响。 @Jesse Weber 宣读了犹他州对Ruby Franke四项指控的认定,详细描述了每一项指控中涉及的虐待行为,包括对Russell和Eve的长时间体力劳动、在酷暑下暴晒、缺乏水和食物以及与世隔绝,以及使用手铐和绳子捆绑等残忍手段。 @Jessie Hildebrandt 讲述了她自己被Jodi Hildebrandt虐待的经历,与Ruby Franke对Frankie孩子的虐待方式惊人地相似。她描述了Jodi Hildebrandt如何对她进行精神和身体上的虐待,包括让她剪掉头发、不准化妆、不准上学、在雪地里睡觉、用胶带封住嘴巴等,以及Jodi Hildebrandt如何操纵她,让她相信自己是邪恶的,并让她向他人道歉。 @McKay Forsyth @Carl Anderson 两位YouTuber从摩门教信仰的角度分析了Jodi Hildebrandt的行为动机,指出Jodi Hildebrandt利用宗教信仰来为自己的行为辩护,并认为一些人相信会有神迹来拯救他们,导致他们做出极端行为。 @Jeremy Diaz 作为犹他州的助理检察官,分析了Jodi Hildebrandt的法律处境,解释了可能的辩护策略,并预测了可能的判刑结果。他详细解释了犹他州对多项二级重罪的量刑标准,并说明了刑期是连续的还是并发的。 @Jordan Forsyth 分析了摩门教教会对Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt事件的反应,指出教会通常会秘密地开除那些犯错的人,并对媒体和公众关系非常谨慎。 Paula Barros总结了Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt的案件,并展望了未来,包括未来可能会出现更多关于儿童网络隐私的法律诉讼,以及对受害儿童的治疗和康复。

Deep Dive

Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt虐童案:真相与反思

我深入调查了震惊全美的Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt虐童案,从案件细节到法律程序,再到社会影响,力求呈现一个完整而深刻的叙事。

令人发指的虐待细节

法院文件揭露的真相远超想象。Ruby Franke和Jodi Hildebrandt对她们抚养的Russell和Eve两名儿童实施了长达数月的系统性虐待。这不仅仅是简单的疏忽,而是蓄意且残忍的伤害。

Jesse Weber宣读的犹他州指控书详细描述了虐待行为:长时间的体力劳动(例如长时间站立、搬运重物)、在酷暑下暴晒导致严重晒伤、剥夺食物和水、精神控制和洗脑(灌输孩子邪恶、需要惩罚才能悔改的思想)。更令人震惊的是,她们使用手铐和绳子捆绑孩子,造成严重的身体损伤,并用家庭疗法敷衍了事。

受害者的声音:Jesse Hildebrandt的经历

Jodi Hildebrandt的亲侄女Jessie Hildebrandt勇敢地站出来,讲述了她自己遭受的类似虐待经历。这与Frankie孩子们所经历的酷似得令人毛骨悚然。Jodi Hildebrandt同样对她进行精神和身体虐待:强迫她剪掉头发、禁止化妆、禁止上学、在雪地里睡觉、用胶带封住嘴巴等等。更可怕的是,Jodi Hildebrandt通过精神控制,让她相信自己邪恶,并强迫她向他人道歉,以掩盖自己的罪行。

信仰的扭曲:宗教因素的分析

YouTuber McKay Forsyth和Carl Anderson分析了宗教因素在案件中的作用。Jodi Hildebrandt利用摩门教信仰为自己的行为辩护,声称自己受到了神的指引。Carl Anderson指出,一些人盲目相信会有神迹拯救他们,这种极端的信仰导致他们做出伤害他人的行为。

法律程序与判决

犹他州助理检察官Jeremy Diaz分析了Jodi Hildebrandt的法律处境。尽管存在“适当管教”等可能的辩护策略,但鉴于证据确凿,她几乎不可能完全免于牢狱之灾。最终,在Ruby Franke认罪并愿意作证的情况下,Jodi Hildebrandt选择认罪。她承认参与了虐童行为,并补充了一个令人毛骨悚然的细节:多次强迫Eve跳进仙人掌丛中。

Ruby和Jodi的每项指控都是二级重罪,最高可判处15年监禁。由于指控是连续的,而非并发的,她们面临的最高刑期是30年,而非简单的四项指控相加。实际刑期将由法庭根据量刑标准和悔过表现等因素决定。我了解到,Jodi Hildebrandt极有可能面临最高刑期。

教会的沉默与社会的反思

YouTuber Jordan Forsyth指出,摩门教教会对Ruby和Jodi事件的反应非常谨慎,通常会秘密处理此类事件,避免引起公众关注。

未来展望:法律、治疗与反思

这个案件引发了人们对儿童网络隐私和网络安全问题的关注。未来,可能会出现更多关于儿童网络隐私的法律诉讼。同时,对受害儿童的治疗和康复也至关重要。

这个案件不仅仅是一个个案,它反映了社会中存在的虐待和控制问题,以及宗教信仰被扭曲利用的危险性。我们需要反思,如何更好地保护儿童,如何预防类似悲剧的发生。 这起案件的真相,远比我们想象的更加黑暗,也更加值得我们深思。

Key Insights

What specific physical and psychological abuses did Russell and Eve suffer under Ruby and Jodi's care?

Russell and Eve were subjected to severe physical and psychological abuses, including forced physical labor, isolation, denial of food and water, and psychological manipulation. Russell was forced to do tasks like wall sits, carry heavy boxes, and work outside in extreme heat without shoes. He suffered from sunburns, blisters, and dehydration. Eve was forced to jump into cacti multiple times, run barefoot on dirt roads, and was also isolated and denied basic needs. Both were told they were evil and needed to repent, and that the abuse was an act of love.

Why did Jesse Hildebrandt, Jodi's niece, come forward with her own abuse story?

Jesse Hildebrandt came forward because she recognized the similarities between her own experiences and the abuse detailed in the charges against Ruby and Jodi. She had suffered similar psychological and physical abuse while living with Jodi, including isolation, physical labor, and being forced to sleep outside in the snow. Jesse felt vindicated and hoped her story would bring attention to the long-term effects of such abuse.

What legal defenses might Jodi Hildebrandt have used in her trial, and why did she ultimately plead guilty?

Jodi Hildebrandt could have used the defense of appropriate parenting or argued that her actions were not intentional but reckless. However, with Ruby's guilty plea and her willingness to testify against Jodi, the case against her became much stronger. Facing the likelihood of a harsh sentence, Jodi chose to plead guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse to potentially receive a lesser sentence.

What are the potential prison sentences for Ruby and Jodi, and how are they calculated?

In Utah, each second-degree felony carries a 1-15 year prison term. For Ruby and Jodi, with four counts each, the maximum consecutive sentence is 30 years. The actual sentence will be determined by the Utah sentencing guidelines, which recommend a specific time for each count. If the sentences are consecutive, they will serve 18 months for the first count and 40% of 18 months for each subsequent count. Their first review by the parole board could be around the 40-month mark.

How did the Mormon faith-based community respond to the charges against Ruby and Jodi?

The Mormon faith-based community, which had previously held Jodi in high regard, remained largely silent about the charges. They typically handle such matters quietly to avoid drawing public attention, often excommunicating individuals without public statements. As of now, there has been no official response from the church regarding Ruby and Jodi.

What are the long-term impacts of the abuse on Jesse Hildebrandt and the Franke children?

The abuse has had profound long-term impacts on both Jesse Hildebrandt and the Franke children. Jesse suffers from complex PTSD, affecting her ability to form relationships, hold jobs, and maintain friendships. The Franke children, particularly Russell and Eve, are likely to experience similar long-term psychological effects, including trauma, trust issues, and a distorted sense of self-worth. Their path to healing will be long and challenging.

Chapters
This chapter details the shocking specifics of the four aggravated child abuse charges against Ruby Franke, outlining the physical and psychological torture inflicted upon her children, Russell and Eve. The abuse included physical restraints, deprivation of basic needs, and psychological manipulation.
  • Ruby Franke pleaded guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse.
  • The abuse involved physical torture, including binding, deprivation of food and water, and forced labor in extreme heat.
  • Both Russell and Eve suffered similar abuse, including psychological manipulation designed to make them believe they were evil and deserved punishment.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

This is a Law and Crime Network presentation. This podcast explores themes of child abuse and trauma. Please listen with care. She doesn't believe that she did anything wrong. The other concerning thing about Eve is the fact that she did have to jump into the cactus. She made her jump into the cactus multiple times.

She's saying everything that you say is a lie. Everything that you say is manipulation. You're manipulating everyone around you. You're lying and destroying everyone's life. So for the sake of everyone else's safety, we're duct taping you.

There's no way they're going to be able to keep their mask on now. As time goes on, everybody's going to be watching now. And if you're looking for anything, you're going back through and searching on the channels, you're going to realize how deep the rabbit hole goes. Like, it's not good. I'm Paula Barros, and this is The Rise and Fall of Ruby Frankie, presented by Law & Crime.

very aware of people online who hate me, who would like to cancel me, who would like to see me either burn in hell as I have been told or disappear off the face of the earth. And I'm not going anywhere. Ruby Frankie, the once massively popular family vlogger who claimed to be immune to judgment, has just pleaded guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse.

After her plea, documents detailing the specifics of the abuse were made available to the public. And once they were released, they dominated the news cycle and were widely circulated across the internet. The plea documents outlined the abuse associated with each count. The charges were contained to the abuse enacted on Eve and Russell Franke over a three-month period, May to August 2023, when the two children were presumably living under Jodi Hildebrandt's roof.

And it's important to note that these documents state that Ruby inflicted the injury or allowed another to inflict the injury. Jesse Weber, host of Law and Crime series Prime Crime and Sidebar, reads the state of Utah's determination for the four charges Ruby ultimately copped to.

Count one, aggravated assault of Russell, who the courts referred to as RF. The defendant's actions involved the physical torture of RF. Initially, RF was forced to do physical tasks for hours and days at a time. These included wall sits, carrying boxes full of books up and down stairs, and working outside. Eventually, RF was forced to do outside labor without shoes

Remember, all this occurred in Utah, where the summers are extremely hot. He was forced to stand in the direct sunlight for several days. He was forced to remain outside at all hours of the day and night by extended periods of time. These actions resulted in repeated and serious sunburns with blistered and sloughing skin. RF was denied adequate water for several of the days he was required to remain in the summer heat, and he was punished when he secretly consumed water.

Not only was Russell denied rest, water, or sufficient food, he was cut off from community and media, too. He was isolated from other people and denied all forms of entertainment, including books, notebooks, and electronics. What you've just heard is devastating. And unfortunately, the details only get more horrific as the pages turn.

They revealed that just a month before Russell successfully escaped to the neighbor's house to call 911, he had tried at least once before. After Arif attempted to run away in July, his hands and feet were regularly bound. Binding included being tied to the defendant into weights.

But he wasn't just bound with duct tape. Many times, the binding included using two sets of handcuffs, one on RF's wrists and one on his ankles. At times, with RF lying on his stomach, ropes were used to tie the two sets of handcuffs together so that his arms and lower legs were lifted off the ground.

This barbaric binding resulted in multiple injuries to Russell's wrists and ankles. The handcuffs cut through the skin and damaged the muscle tissue. And the abuse didn't stop even when he was visibly hurt. In fact, Ruby and Jody doubled down. These injuries were treated with homeopathic remedies and covered with duct tape. Then the bindings were placed on top of the duct tape.

Finding Russell wasn't the only horrific act the first count detailed. There was more. All of that was only count one.

Count three describes physical injury causing emotional harm. Additionally, the defendant and another adult regularly sought to indoctrinate RF and convince him that he was evil and possessed and that he needed to willingly be obedient to avoid punishments and that the punishments were necessary to repent. He was also told that everything that was being done to him were acts of love.

Count 5 was about the abuse of Ruby's youngest child, Eve, who was physically tortured in many of the same ways as Russell. Other than binding and the specific instances of abuse RF was subjected to, EF was subjected to the same treatment as her brother. She was isolated and forced to do the physical tasks, remain outside and denied food and water.

And Eve, too, was psychologically harmed. She was also repeatedly told she was evil and possessed. The punishments were necessary for her to be obedient and to repent. And these things were being done to her in order to help her. EF was convinced that she was evil and needed to go through these things in order to repent.

This detail tracks with Eve's behavior observed by first responders on August 30th, 2023, when they surmised she believed she was deserving of the treatment she had endured. Lastly, count six was a charge specific to the treatment of Eve. It's described as abuse that constituted physical injury that includes multiple injuries.

She was forced to work outside in the heat barefoot. She was also forced to run barefoot on dirt roads for an extended period of time. EF's feet were repeatedly injured by and she was repeatedly sunburned. When examined on August 30th, these wounds were apparent by scabs, blisters, and sloughing skin. We know this is a lot to take in, but understanding the grisly details of the charges Ruby pleaded guilty to is essential to the factual telling of this story.

Once these details came out, longtime whistleblowers were both irate and unwittingly vindicated. They'd seen the writing on the wall for years before this tragedy was publicly revealed. And there was one longtime onlooker of the Jodi Hildebrandt-Ruby-Frankie saga making headlines, claiming they suffered nearly identical treatment while in Jodi's care. Jodi's biological niece, Jessie Hildebrandt.

Jesse remembers when they saw the details of their aunt's charges in the headlines. They're horrifying. It's horrifying that it has taken to this long and to this degree for people to listen and to do something about it. But not shocking. Not shocking that she could or would do this because she's already done this.

You might remember from previous episodes, Jesse went to live with Jodi when they were 16 years old. As a troubled teen, Jesse was hopeful that living with Jodi may actually be beneficial to them. The church supports her. She's a therapist and she's my aunt. And I believed in the church. I trusted my parents. And I also was so depressed and I wanted help. So I was going into this being like, okay, maybe this is the answer. I have been praying. So I'm going to try to embrace this.

But things quickly escalated under Jodi's roof. So first thing is she made me cut all my hair off. I wasn't allowed to have my hair. I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. I wasn't allowed to, like, I had to wear very modest, plain clothing to the point where I was at, in the end, I only had a pair of sweatpants, a skirt, and two shirts. That's all I owned.

Then, just like Ruby and the Frankie children, Jodi isolated Jesse too. She required Jesse not to speak to their classmates, then eventually took them out of school altogether.

citing school was a distraction from Jessie's issues. It's tricky because the physical abuse didn't just happen out of nowhere. She sets the scene with the psychological and spiritual abuse to then justify the physical abuse. So the physical abuse would happen after each degree of psychological abuse. So, for example, I had to wear duct tape in my mouth. I wasn't allowed to speak at this point at all to anyone. Sounds eerily familiar, right?

And although she isolated Jesse from the community, Jodi bad-mouthed Jesse to anyone and everyone whenever she had the chance. And then she's telling all of these people, Jesse is a compulsive liar. Jesse is a masterful manipulator. That is her favorite term. Anyone that has worked with Jodi, I'm certain when I say that, it's like, ugh, triggering. Masterful manipulator. Everything that came out of my mouth

was considered a lie. I wasn't allowed to be around people because I was so full of evil that it wasn't safe for me to be around people. And again, I believed all of this stuff. Just like Adam Steed. Just like Kevin Franke. Just like Russell and Eve.

Jesse Hildebrandt was mentally worn down to believe terrible things about themselves that just simply weren't true. She's saying everything that you say is a lie. Everything that you say is manipulation. You're manipulating everyone around you. You're lying and destroying everyone's life. So for the sake of everyone else's safety, we're duct taping you. But it didn't stop with the duct tape either.

Jessie shared more glaringly similar parallels to the treatment of Russell and Eve under Jodi's care. I was sleeping outside in the snow. I wasn't allowed to have a bed. I was sleeping in a, what she told everyone, that it was like a mummy bag, you know, sub-zero type of sleeping bag. No, it was absolutely not. This was a, like, $20 Walmart store brand, you use at sleepovers kind of sleeping bag, outside in the snow in the middle of winter in Utah. In their quiet moments, Jessie would plot an escape.

But Jodi was acutely clued into Jessie's ideation. And then she would say things like, "If you went to the police, you would destroy my life. But that's what you do. You are a destroyer of lives. You're a masterful manipulator. This is what you do." Which is removing, like, the horrifying nature of that is very smart because it closes up the loopholes for me.

But in early 2010, despite Jodi's intense intimidation tactics, Jesse made a run for it, just like Russell Franke. So we were outside, middle of January, like freezing cold. Outside Jodi's home, Jesse began walking towards the neighbors. Jodi cried out for them to come back. And I said no. I said no. And she then punched me in the back. I turned around to walk and she punched me in the back and I fell down onto the ground.

She ended up going inside, which in hindsight is like pretty wild that she did that. That actually doesn't really make a lot of sense to me why she left me outside. But I think it was probably just she didn't think I would leave. But I did. I walked to a neighbor's house.

The neighbors were startled by the information Jesse shared with them. So they turned to their faith-based community for advice on how to proceed. So they went to the bishop voicing those concerns about me. But the bishop's response to the neighbor's concern was curious. The bishop went to Jodi with their names, told her, and because the bishop supported her through all of this.

He supported her in all of this. He told her their names and then she would take me house to house and coach me on exactly what I was going to say to these people. Jodi made Jesse walk everything back. She'd be like, "You manipulated them into feeling sorry for you. If you went into church with a sad face on because you wanted to convince everyone that I was harming you, you manipulated them into feeling sorry for you." So I would go into these homes, she would be with me, and I would up the

I would apologize, believing that I was doing it. And I didn't even know I was doing this. And so I was like, "I guess I am manipulating. I don't even know that I am, but I guess that's what's happening." - Jessie had completely internalized everything Jodi made them believe. - And I would apologize and I'd be like, "I'm so sorry. Like actually, Jodi is saving my life. Jodi is saving me." - This level of psychological abuse is almost impossible to wrap your head around if you've never experienced it for yourself.

But Jesse explains how deeply it seeps in. And when you are told for so long at such a volume that you are evil, that you are nothing, that God hates you, it's like more than hates you, is so disappointed in you, that God allowed this to happen, that God did this abuse to save you and you said no. You denied God this gift of

When you are coming from an internalized narrative, everything you do ruins, like everything you touch, every person you touch, you destroy their lives. Even if you understand it here that it's not true, when it has become a core value, a core belief of who you are, you can't just decide that that's not true. We're now seeing the world through the lens that you are evil.

And I'm sure everyone can attest to this. You will find what you're looking for. It's like when you learn a new word and suddenly you hear it everywhere. You get a new car and suddenly you see that everyone's driving this car. When you have a programming that everyone hates you and that the only reason anyone likes you is because you've manipulated them, you will find evidence for that.

Bye.

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Go to audible.com slash imagine and discover all the year's best waiting for you. Ex-Mormon YouTuber McKay Forsyth recalls from his time following Jodi's moves that it wasn't uncommon for her to invoke religion when justifying her practices, just like she did with Jesse.

She doesn't believe that she did anything wrong because in a lot of instances, she had mentioned that in her therapy that she had visions from God and direction from God to do X, Y, or Z thing to help her patients out.

And another ex-Mormon YouTuber, Carl Anderson, explains how wielding faith like this can be extremely harmful. There's this underlying driven passion underneath this where there's a belief system that these angels or Jesus themselves or whoever...

Somehow the prophecies of the church and the end of the world are going to come in and intervene and save. And so at the last minute, there's going to be some kind of divine intervention that's going to make sense of all these bad things that they're doing. And so the belief system pushes parents and people who are desperate for answers and desperate for those things to happen in their life. They're desperate for Jesus to come save them.

They start to push that harder and harder and harder, thinking that they're being more obedient, they're being more faithful. And it leads to this type of extremism to where they're trying to play out chapters of the book or trying to fulfill revelations that they've read in their scriptures. And ultimately what happens is they end up hurting the people around them. Jesse ultimately escaped Jodi's clutches, running away to various shelters, and then finally into the care of a couple who took them in.

But their time in her care has come at a great cost well into adulthood. This nearly killed me. This affected every aspect of my life, every single part. My ability to have friends, my ability to have partners, my ability to hold jobs. I have complex PTSD from this. And if people don't know what that is, it's an incredibly complicated form of PTSD.

Jodi Hildebrandt will likely never face consequences for the abuse and emotional turmoil she inflicted on her own niece. But for what she did to the youngest Frankie children, there's irrefutable proof. Jodi has finally been exposed. Back in Utah, it was now time for Jodi to face the court. With Ruby's admission of guilt and willingness to testify against her former business partner, Jodi was left with little wiggle room.

But in the United States, you're considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So could Jody feasibly fight her charges? Utah-based assistant attorney Jeremy Diaz explains Jody's precarious legal situation.

there's a possible defense of appropriate parenting. There are different situations where maybe you're acting in a way to defend yourself or you're defending another one of your children from maybe a violent sibling. When you're talking about serious bodily injuries, it's a question of, I didn't do it intentionally. It was really more recklessly. So at that point, it's more of a defense about level of punishment.

Given the unlikelihood of getting off without any jail time, in hopes of a lesser sentence, Jodi ultimately chooses not to fight back. Once Ruby pled guilty and she knew that Ruby was going to testify against her, her case became a lot more difficult. Because again, some of the conduct that Jodi is accused of and was charged with is the stuff that Ruby was doing to the kids.

On December 27th, 2023, just four days after Ruby pleaded guilty, Jody enters court in the same gray and white striped prisoner's clothes to stand before Judge John Walton. Then Ms. Hildebrandt, how do you plead to count one aggravated child abuse a second degree felony? Guilty. And to count three aggravated child abuse a second degree felony? Guilty.

In her plea agreement, Jodi admits to participating in the child abuse.

But she has one more disturbing detail to add. The other concerning thing about Eve is the fact that she did have to jump into the cactus. And you're not talking about how it's jumping into the cactus one time. According to the plea form that Jodi filled out, she made her jump into the cactus multiple times.

Jodi's plea sets off yet another media frenzy. With her admission of guilt, these two women who concerned onlookers had been looking to pin down for years were finally caught and no longer a danger to society.

And no longer were opinions about the two women merely speculation of abuse. Now it was both proven and public record. There's no way they're going to be able to keep their mask on now. As time goes on, everybody's going to be watching now. And if you're looking for anything or going back through and searching on the channels, you're going to realize how deep the rabbit hole goes. Like, it's not good.

But there was another group linked to Ruby and Jodi that had yet to speak out. The Mormon faith-based community that had once held them, especially Jodi, in high esteem. Ex-Mormon co-host of the YouTube channel Jordan and McKay, Jordan Forsyth, speculates on what may be going on behind the scenes in the church. It's not uncommon for them to excommunicate people. So it's not uncommon for them to kick people out of Mormonism altogether. But they do it quietly.

usually. They don't draw attention to it, they rarely make a statement, and so they are very quiet about these things because it's like they're, I mean they have a very well-funded PR department, and so they're very intentional about everything that they do when it comes to like the media and public relations. And so to our knowledge, and we I feel like would be the first to know, I feel like our DMs would be blown up if they made any kind of reference to either of them.

In the days following the pleas, Carl, who had been tracking Ruby and Jodi's moves, shared what came up for him emotionally, given his connection to the Frankie family. I really felt heartbroken for the kids. I felt terrible about all of that. And then I got really mad. Like, it's a big paradox where I was relieved and elated that she finally got caught. And I was overjoyed.

and that all of this was going to come out. But at the same time, it's really sad that this is going on and there's probably other people going through the same thing right now that haven't got caught yet.

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By the end of 2023, Ruby and Jodi remained behind bars in Utah's Washington County Jail. While they had entered their respective pleas, the two women were still awaiting sentencing. In the state of Utah, each of their charges is a second-degree felony and carries a 1-15 year prison term.

Jeremy Diaz breaks down the numbers of what that could mean in terms of a sentence for Jody and Ruby. Utah Code says that in this sort of a situation where there's second degree felonies, even though it's four and people can try to do the math and say the top end is 60, right? Because at the end of the day, when we're talking about prison time, you're talking about a top end and a bottom end.

um a ceiling and a floor let's just say a ceiling and a floor the ceiling as it looks is 60 years right 15 times 4 is 60. in utah by statute if it's not a first degree felony and carries a life ceiling

The highest ceiling you can get on consecutive second-degree or even third-degree felonies, whatever they plead to, the highest you can go is 30. So we know for sure that the top end for them is 30. The question is the bottom end, and that's what the board has to decide. In the pre-sentence report, there would have been a calculation of...

of the offense and their overall criminal history. You can pull this up on the Utah sentencing guidelines, the criminal matrix. For something like this, the matrix will give a recommendation for how much time they should spend on each of these. As a general matter where there's four for the first count, they'll do the full recommended time

But there's yet another legal tentacle to this, since both Ruby and Jody's charges are consecutive. And then on the subsequent counts, the question is concurrent versus consecutive. We know that these are consecutive here. If they were run concurrently, if they were run at the same time,

Basically, the time that would be recommended for the board as far as the calculation of how much time they'd spend would be 10% of that 18 months. So if it's concurrent, they do 10% of that 18 months. That would be added to the 18 months. When it's consecutive, so one after the other, they don't do 18 months, then 18 months, then 18 months. According to the sentencing guidelines, they do 18 months, and then they do 40% of that 18 months.

I know, that's a lot of numbers at once. To put it simply... Their first opportunity to get a review in front of the board would probably be around the 40-month mark. The terms of Ruby and Jodi's sentences are subject to change based on measurements like signs of rehabilitation, good behavior, and showing accountability for their actions. It's been speculated that Ruby may not serve the full term she's facing.

As for Jodi, Jesse was able to get insider knowledge related to her sentencing. The likelihood of her getting maximum sentencing is incredibly high. On the next and final episode of the rise and fall of Ruby Franke, we'll learn what the Utah courts agree upon in Ruby and Jodi's sentencing hearing and explore the fallout of their twisted path. Also, what does the future hold for children on the internet? And what does a path to healing look like for the Franke children?

I think with Ruby, it was more of a situation of her wanting to kind of mend what the wrongs that she did with her children. That's what I think it was, and to kind of fully come out and tell her story. She recognized the authority that she had and abused it and used it as a tool for her to gain influence, money, power, all of these things.

It's hard to admit that our parents aren't amazing and maybe the death of the dream. You know, a lot of my patients over the years have said, like, I just wish I had a normal mom or dad or I just wish they'd shown up for me the way that I needed. And we still hold out hope in a very strange way. There's still this like dream of what a parent could be. And so it's going to be way easier to look at Jodi Hildebrand to be like, she's the problem.

because she's not my mom. I know in several jurisdictions in the United States at the moment, there's legislation coming through to protect children who have their image and likeness online, whose families profit off their image. I think that looking to the future, we're going to see a lot of cases of children taking their parents through legal action to rectify and remedy their privacy being taken away.

Anybody can be a predator, right? Anybody can be an abuser. So whether it's the mom or the religious leader, the pathology is pretty similar. I don't think when someone's being abusive, they think about it's my kid versus it's someone else's kid. I don't even think that they care. That's all coming up on the finale of The Rise and Fall of Ruby Frankie.

This has been a Law & Crime production. I'm your host, Paula Barrows. Our executive producer is Jessica Lowther. Our producer and writer is Cooper Maul. Our editor is Brad Mabee. Our bookers are Alyssa Fisher and Diane Kay. And special thanks to Sean Panzera for designing our key art.

We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!

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