‘Hawkeye’ Season Awards + ‘The Book of Boba Fett’ Primer
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Emmy award-winning producer, actor, and comedian Larry Wilmore is back on the air, hosting a podcast where he weighs in on the issues of the week and interviews guests in the world of politics, entertainment, culture, sports, and beyond. Check out Larry Wilmore Black on the Air on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Cocky Eve? No, it's worse. Damn, okay. Cockshot. Like hot shot, but in a cock. No. Lady Arrow? None of those. Okay, fine. You know what, actually, I have an idea. Welcome into the Ringerverse, the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all fans. It's a special bonus. Holiday, we went too long. Us? House of R. House of R.

bonus holiday episode. I am Ringer Senior Staff Writer Joanna Robinson. Joining me, as always, my partner on the ice. We are wearing matching black and purple super suits. Mallory Rubin. Hello, Mallory.

Joe, great to be here with you. Delightful to spend the holidays together talking about these shows and these movies and these stories that we love. We're just here to pot about Bart and have some appetizers and then we'll go. We have a lot to say. Listen, you hopefully already heard us talk about the Hawkeye finale. You hopefully heard a great interview that Rhys Thomas gave us about the Hawkeye finale. Now we want to take a larger look, as is our want, context,

of the largest season of Hawkeye. So we've got some bigger picture thoughts, questions, comments, concerns, mailbag answers for you in this sort of Hawkeye season-wide retrospective. So that's what's happening here.

What is also happening here is that I said, Mallory, help me get on your level for Boba Fett. And Mallory wisely called in Jedi Master of Star Wars lore, TheRinger.com, Ben Lindbergh. We'll have a Boba preview in this episode. We're going to watch some Clone Wars. We're going to watch some movies. We're going to get ready. We're going to study. Watching Clone Wars is literally one of my favorite things to do. I love it so much. I love...

angsty teen cartoon Boba so much. I'm so excited for Boba. It was really fun to chat with Ben for a few minutes. I love homework. I love holiday homework personally. So, you know, that's all in this episode. We got some scheduling reminders for you before we get into everything, right? Monday, we've got a House of Midnight joint episode. Van Charles joined me to talk about the Matrix Resurrections.

Got a little loopy at the end. I'm not going to lie to you, but this is the season to get a looped into the matrix. So that's Monday. Wednesday, the Midnight Boys Pew Pew. Fan of Charles. We'll be breaking down the first episode of Book of Boba Fett for you. And then on Friday, New Year's Eve, by the way, ring in the new year. Mallory and I will be back to also talk about Book of Boba Fett. We're going to do the deep dive as is our topic.

want as i said okay so anyway let's just get let's let's let's get into it you can listen if you want to know more if you want to make sure you don't miss a thing this holiday season mal where can folks find us they can find us by following the pod on spotify wherever they listen to podcasts by following the ringerverse social feeds we're on twitter we are on instagram

There's a Facebook group. The ringerverse is everywhere. Joanna. The first thing we're going to do on this podcast, we're going to go on a little Easter egg hunt. But before we do, we of course have to issue Friendly Neighborhood, spoiler warning, let you know that we will be discussing in this season wide retrospective of Hawkeye, all six episodes of Hawkeye. Yeah. The entirety of the Man Fraction Hawkeye run.

In fact, other Marvel Disney Plus shows might come into the mix. Perhaps a Marvel Netflix canon might come into the mix. Maybe. If we're going to talk about Spider-Man No Way Home, we will warn you. That's our promise. It's a promise from us to you because we know not everyone has been to the theater. So let's just proceed with caution if you have some thoughts and feelings about that. We're also going to talk about some Star Wars. We'll give you some warning before we get into that. So let's go on our Easter egg hunt, the Hawkeye finale. Easter egg basket.

We've talked about a lot of them. What's your one favorite from the finale? Just picking one. Only one, Mallory. I mean, I'm not going to listen to my own rules, so there's no reason you have to, but we can try. I'm not going to get into quarter flip gate, but I do think that subbing in a cuff link. Midnight band. There's no more quarter gate. Yeah. Yeah.

But this isn't Midnight Voice. This is House of Art. But we're not going to talk about that. But I will say making it a cufflink instead was, I didn't see it coming. It's a great. It was good. A great little moment. Yeah. That's my pick too. But since you picked it, I will go with what we already talked about, the Arrow labels, which I just thought were delightful. You know, I already mentioned Lucky getting his name, but that's not an Easter egg. That's a court plot to me. We do need a moment though. Yeah. Once again, to hear from another member of the House of Art family.

because while everyone was talking, I think that at some point it said we had 138 slacks in a thread at 2 a.m. Okay. Off of the finale. And everyone's

And everyone's in there talking about everything that happened in the finale, except for Steve, who was in the main slack, not in the thread, just talking about the owl. So Steve, please join us for a minute and tell us everything we need to know about Rocky the Owl and why this is your favorite Easter egg. My king, Rocky the Owl. So this is a wonderful...

little nugget that we got from probably one of the shining rays of light that we got in the year of our Lord 2020 of our boy, Rocky the owl, an actual owl that got stuck in the tree in Rockefeller center and was rescued subsequently and put back into his natural habitat. And it's the exact same species of owl that we see in the Hawkeye finale. It was one of the

Steve, like, by himself in the Slack talking about Rock of the Owls, like, a favorite, a cherished moment of the finale for me. Honestly, incredible. Me too. I love owls too. Steve, thank you. That was beautiful. Secret Scroll Watch 2021. Yeah. Who you got in the finale? I'm going to give it to my guy, Armand VII.

of the Hamptons accident. I love this. He with an eye towards a wine collection. Love this. I like a child scroll. How about you? So do you think that the scroll began impersonating Armand VII after the pantwetting incident in the Hamptons or was the scroll responsible?

No, I think if the real Armand VII were there, he would not have put his neck out on the line knowing that Jack has the Hampstead incident in his back pocket. Anyway, who's your pick? Incredible. I don't really believe this, but I'm just going to throw this out there.

what about Lara? Because again, what exactly is going on here with these decisions? So I just kept getting like secret invasion whiffs here and that there's going to be some connection to something that is going to unfold. And so I wonder if a Skrull could come in in some way. I'm not saying I want that to happen, but I did wonder. We also have to note here that we got numerous mailbag questions from people asking if Jack was a Skrull. Yeah.

I mean, if it means more Tony Dalton than the MCU, yes. 100%. One of our listeners wrote in, or I think I saw it somewhere. We had so many tweets. Thank you guys so much. The best. But someone wrote in and said, do you think Jeremy Renner and Lyndon Cardellini were ever actually in the same place at the same time? They do hug. They embrace. But you see the back of...

You think this is like a Chris Hemsworth kissing his actual wife instead of Natalie Portman situation? I think it's more like Juliette Amargulis and Archie Punjabi in this very infamous good wife scene where the two were not in the same room. Anyway, you see them kind of in frame together, but...

I don't know. Rewatch that sequence and understand that it is possible that these two actors were never in the same place at the same time. Amazing stuff. Amazing stuff. Okay. It is time in honor of our guy, Jack for Sweeties season superlatives. We will be running rapid fire lightning round through 12 of our season awards. We are going to start

With best episode. Favorite episode. Not even a contest. Episode three. I'm with you. One of the best Marvel TV episodes ever. So good. So good. I'm a little surprised that we didn't end up picking an episode that had Yelena in it just because we both loved that so much. But episode three was clearly the standout of the season, right? Amazing intro to Echo. Loved everything with Maya and William. That was a pure time where the Kingpin stuff was all just a promise and the thrill of it. Yeah.

Yeah. That heavy fraction comics ode with the car chase, which I know you loved so much. The great episode for Clint and Kate and their relationship, the subway ride, the diner chat. And the phone, exactly. The phone call with Nate. Just such a tight and energetic episode that had this really impressive balance of action and levity and real heart. Fabulous. Season MVP. I think we might agree here too.

Oh, I was going to say, I know you think I'm going to pick Jack. It's Yelena fucking Belova. I'm sorry. Like, I can't give it to anyone else. I have to give it to her. I have no issue with the pick. My two runners up, strong, strong, strong contention, Yelena and Jack. I'm going with...

Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop. I mean, because as delightful as Yelena was, as delightful as Jack was, the show ultimately as an actual piece of television and as frankly, like a proposition doesn't work if they don't nail Kate. The future of the MCU is so bright for so many reasons. And Kate is just a huge part of why. So she's my pick, but can't argue with Yelena. That's a great one, too.

Ask me the next question. I think we're going to have the same one here. Most dynamic duo. It's Yelena and Kate. Obviously. Obviously. I mean, the mac and cheese scene in the apartment in episode five, everything we already talked about with the elevator and the fight here, stop making me like you. I'm sorry. I can't help it. I loved when...

When Kate said, what are we doing? I mean, it's Christmas Eve. Let's grab a drink. And Yelena really stops to think about it and says, yeah, sure. After I kill Barton. And she means both parts of that equally as Ernest Blades. Just so good. Love it. So, so, so good.

favorite fraction comics run incorporation? I was going to pick the car chase, but since we already did our ode to episode three, I'm going to say the LARPers because the LARPers who don't exist in the comic, but they're stand-ins for the tenants of the building that Clint is overseeing. And in the big final fight in the building, the tenants get involved. So this idea of like,

echoing out this sort of like every man I saw you jump from that building even though you can't fly sort of attitude bringing in the the like street level folks to come help with the fight I love the use of the larpers here yeah that's a great one I mean you know my answer come on it's Lucky Lucky the pizza dog next I mean he was the best

This is a real struggle for Mallory not to answer Lucky for every single one of these and me to not answer Jack for every single one of these. MVP, Lucky, favorite episodes, the ones with Lucky, Dynamic Duo, me and Lucky. Lucky and Pizza. Top spinoff candidate. Jack Duquesne. Not just Jack Duquesne. The show will be called Leisure Activity. Okay.

And it will be an anthology. It will, of course, start with Jack joining the LARPers. Obviously. But every episode is a new adventure in Jack Duquesne's life and a new leisure activity. Some parties. Some dancing. Some dancing.

I mean, obviously that's the pick. It's the clear one. I really hope they do this. I really, really, really hope they do it. You know what it should be like? Do you remember those Disney shorts that was like Goofy learning a new thing? They're really short. So it should be like a Marvel shorts of him learning how to like swim. Downhill ski, I think, is something that Goofy learns. I bet you he's an excellent downhill skier already. I bet he is. I bet you're right.

Top trick arrow. Top trick arrow. I don't know. I did not catch what the label was on this one, but it is, I'm calling it the spiny spike one. It's the one where like it hits and then all those little darts come out of it. So there were two like dart dispersal ones. The first one seemed just like needles, like porcupine arrow. Yeah. And then the second one, which I'm slightly ashamed to say is my pick, was like the tranq dart dispenser. I mean, that was really efficient. Yeah.

That was handy. Took out a lot of people quickly. Related to the arrows, favorite fight or action sequence from the entire run? Yeah, so going back to episode three, it's not the car chase, though. It's the warehouse fight. I just thought the warehouse fight was like really good use of stunt work from everyone involved. There's great Kate action. There's great Clint action. And it was our introduction to Maya as a complete ass...

So, yeah. And, you know, Kazi fell down good. Kazi gets his ass kicked there and gets his ass kicked in every fight the rest of the season, including in the finale. Very rough. He caught that arrow. Caught that arrow. All right. They gave him one dub. All right. What's yours? Mine's one we've already talked about. Yelena and Kate in this episode in the finale in the elevator running through the floor. Kate Bishop, I'm not here to ruin anything. I'm just going to kill Barton, have some appetizers, and then I'll go.

Unparkable thing to say. Just incredible. And then the concluding note of that was really fun by and then jumping out of the window. What a star. Incredible. Best fit. I know you're not picking Kingpin's Hawaiian shirt, though. That is obviously the pick. I'm sure I'm not. I'm thinking Jack Duquesne pairing a beautiful gray suit with a sword belt. That's my pick. It's a good one. I'm tempted to pick the way Jack rocked the

kit, you know, cod piece and all. I just loved the commitment in that whole sequence. But I think I'm going to pick, I think I'm going to pick Kate wearing Moira's pantsuit. Yes. The orange and black one. Just tremendous. Beautiful. Just tremendous. That was my runner up. That was my runner up. I love that. I will say, well, again, I think that the failure to turn the tracksuits into merch that we could purchase from the comfort of our homes is a real mess. Um,

I always just admire a day in and day out commitment to leisure wear, leisure wear, as Jack would say. And, you know, for that reason, I think it at least needs to be mentioned. Biggest surprise. I was not spoiled on this series at all, really. So like, you know, it's not my usual, like, I wasn't surprised because I knew the whole plot. This is the only time I can ask you biggest surprise in the entire time we're going to do the podcast together. No, there were plenty of other times, but like,

Racking my brain, I couldn't think of any, I guess. No, that's not a surprise either. I don't have, honestly, I'm failing. I don't have a good answer for this. I mean, maybe, but I'm never surprised at how good Zahn McLaren is and everything. But I guess I was surprised by how little time he had since he's so great. But then how much that character resonates in that short time. Episode three, man. It's so good. How about you? What do you have?

I agree that there are not a ton of candidates here, which is, you know, notable. Here are my contenders. The LARPers role, which you just mentioned, I think the point about how they're a corollary to the residents of the building from the comic is really smart. When they were introduced in episode two, I thought, is this just going to be a bit? Yeah. But they're becoming really central to the story in a way that I loved. So that's probably my pick. I think

Similarly, just in terms of the surprise of maybe how present a certain character set was, I think when we talked about, like, when we were previewing the season of our Hype Meter pod when Andy and I broke down the trailer, et cetera, like, mentioned a couple times that I thought from what we saw in the trailer with the kids...

in New York, that this would be the way show of basically reminding us, acknowledging that Clinton has a family and then they would be cast to the side and we would never see them again in the rest of the show. And the consistent presence throughout the season of the entire Barton squad was...

was a surprise. And then I think just how different Kazi was from the comics. I mean, what you said earlier is right. They change characters all the time, but this is not the clown that we know from the comics. And I enjoyed getting to know the MCU's Kazi, but it was just a completely different character.

It's true. Favorite Easter egg. This might be recency bias because it's from the finale, but I got to shout out the Dragons of Despair poster in Girls' Apartment. Yeah. Tracy Hickman, like I've talked before about my love of like Dragonlance books. Tracy Hickman, I think is an icon of like geek stuff.

books. So a Tracy Hickman poster? Yes. 100% yes. How about you? Amazing stuff. Mine's probably the one I already mentioned earlier, the blood smear handprint on Echo's face, you know, calls back to a really iconic comics moment, tells us a lot about the history of these characters and also sets the stage well for what is to come in not only this series, but in

the standoff, standalone spinoff to come. So I really, I really loved that. It was, it was a smart wink, but also really emotionally impactful. Speaking of winks and possibilities, the Mephisto Award for favorite fan theory that didn't pan out. My question, my biggest question at the end of all this is why did they hire acclaimed stage actor Brian Darcy James put a

Boop Black in his goatee and never give us any more Derek Bishop. So it's Derek Bishop. We'll talk about it with Reese. We really felt sure that we were going to learn in this season he was alive. That's a good pick. So sure. That's a really good pick. I think that actually might be my pick too. I guess for the sake of variance, I'll toss out

Not that I ever thought this was going to be true. I thought it was actually thematically important for Clint to have been the Ronin in that flashback with the tracksuits. But I did love all of the speculating around that, all of the different possibilities. Could that Ronin have been Kazi? Could it have been Jack? Could it have been Laura, et cetera, et cetera? That was a fun prompt for the internet. Yeah.

Really fun. Oh, God. And then finally, actually, I have one more. I'm going to issue one more one more for the last one, but I'm going to issue another contextually. No way home. Very, very, very quick spoiler. Just hit the fast forward button once this time.

Didn't see Spidey swinging into Rock Center. Really thought we would based on the timing overlap with the Rogers. No, I actually didn't. I actually did not think that we would see Spider-Man in this movie, but I liked the idea that it could happen. Okay, our final superlative. Unanswered question that excites you most for the future. How did Yelena get her hair to do that? And how quickly is she going to teach Kate

how to braid her own hair in similar fashion. Incredible. I don't know. You know, we'll... That wasn't my real answer. I mean, my real answer... But my real answer isn't even really any better because it's just sort of this, like, Kazi death thing. Because, like, I am compelled by the Kazi-Maya relationship. Me too. And I would like to see more of it. So...

How does Kazi deal with a gut wound? Yeah. I guess. I have written down, is hot Kazi alive and will he find love and peace? That was what I wrote for myself like a lunatic. Maybe he just fell on

onto the ice and just like just rested his belly on that. You know, his belly that has an open wound in it from the arrow that Maya slapped him with. But yeah, maybe it's possible. Should you ice a wound? I feel like you should. Were they on the sidewalk or the ice there? He's near ice at least. That's what I'm saying. He had to like flop himself over the wall down onto the ice and then just sort of ice his sliced open belly. I hope we see him again. I do. There are a lot of unanswered questions. We've talked about him at length today. You know, Wilking Pins,

be in the Echo series right away? Will Kate and Yelena join the Young Avengers? Is that watch going to be connected to any story that unfurls from here? Will Jack become a LARPer? When will we next see Val and learn more about how she is connected? Because we can deduce that Eleanor called her. We know Eleanor is connected to Kingpin. Is Val connected to Kingpin? I'm eager to see that. Will we see any of those characters, Val or anyone else, interacting with Eleanor in...

her prison cell. But here's my actual one. Will Lucky and Fanny get us started at last on Pet Avengers. I hope for nothing more for you in the future. Oh, God. Thanks, pal.

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or the Peloton app. It's like having your own personal coach with you or right at home in your living room. Call yourself a runner with Peloton at onepeloton.com slash running. What are we doing? I mean, it's Christmas Eve. Let's grab a drink, huh? Okay. Yeah. Cool. Sure. After I get Barton.

No, no, that's not what... Come on. Okay. Mailbag time. Jomie, grab your watch. Join us. I have my watch. I'm Agent 25. You know, they don't really just hand out nicknames. I'm in the line for Blue Jay, but we'll see. We know what Steve's nickname would be. Steve's Owl, obviously. Clearly. Okay, so Steve is Owl.

Jomie's Blue Jay. I'm going to be Oriole for obvious Baltimore sports fandom reasons. Joe, we're just waiting on you. This is not a bad question, by the way, but we're answering it anyway. I mean, is it pandering to say Raven? If it is pandering, it was successful pandering because I fucking love it. Great.

Raven, look how much I've learned about sports in the few months I've been here at the Ringer. Oh, man. I mean, it's perfect for this, though. You know, the purple and black uniforms and the purple and black Hawkeye outfits. It's all coming together. It's all coming together. The universes are all connecting. Our first question comes from Elsa. Elsa asks, Kate's moral compass sends Eleanor to prison, but forgives the literal hundreds that Clint killed?

What happens to the blip? Stays in the blip? This is a good question. This is the question of this series. This series is supposed to, theoretically supposed to be about Clint grappling with his past as Ronan.

It ends with him somehow burning a suit on the barbecue that did not burn in Kate's apartment. It doesn't track for me. It doesn't work. It doesn't work for me. Clint, Clint off the hook so easily for this Ronan stuff in theory. I don't know. Yeah. What do you think? It's, you know, as I think that Clint will continue to look inward and assess and that that will be an ongoing part of his journey. Yeah.

Kate being like, mom, you're going to jail. But Clint, I'd love to spend the holidays with you despite the legions that you cut down with your sheer force of will. It's tough. It's a tough scene.

I kind of feel like Eleanor should be really upset, more upset even than how she was outside 30 Rock. It's like, bro, you see this man as a murderer. You got your mother, your flesh and blood, go to jail for some dude that you met two weeks ago. I'd be upset.

I'm not going to lie. I think a disinheritance is on the way. I guess. Mandatory. You were never at Armand's Bellini brunches, so you don't know how fantastic of an event those were. I bet you the spread there was amazing. Yeah, this...

this let's deal with Ronan but not deal with Ronan business is a tough part of this whole series for me. And I mean, it's just, it was always going to be tough because like, I think something that Reese said at the beginning of the season when I was asking about influences, he's like, I want to do like a really dark and gritty Hawkeye and Jeremy Renner is like, I really wanted to do a dark and gritty reckon with Ronan and Hawkeye and Marvel's like, what if we do a bright and cheery holiday show? And he put those two things together and like,

Something's got to give. And in this case, it's the reckoning with the violence. I prefer the light and cheery show, to be honest. But you've got this Ronan stuff running through it. Just like one night of wine slushies and we're done with it? I don't know. If I had to put on my cape, if I had to put on my cape, I would say...

Ronan killed a lot of not really innocent people. You know, they were all, like, you know, bad to some degree. That's what they tell us. I'm not saying I agree with this. Yes, but even so, does he get to decide that that's okay? No, exactly. I'm not saying I agree. I'm just, you know, thinking off the dome. And, you know, Eleanor set up our guy Jack, who has never worked a day in his life. And he, you know...

it's not a killer. So Gandalf would tell us that's not, that's not Clint's decision to make. And I, I stand with Gandalf, you know, it all matters, but maybe the next scene that we didn't get after the kids unwrapped their holiday gifts, it's Clint pulling young Nathaniel Pietro side, Nerf gun in hand and say, those won't actually wound the person standing across from you. But son, let me tell you,

About the thousands of lives that I have ended. Merry Christmas to all. Happy holidays past the eggnog. Hey, dad, how did I get my middle name? Don't worry about that. We'll talk about that at a later time. When you're old enough. Our next question comes from Sean. And Sean wants to know, where did the other 80 tracksuit mafia members come from?

Was there a Craigslist ad? Is there a tracksuit slack? And you'll notice as they swarmed Rockefeller Plaza that we had many more green, like the red and green of the tracksuits, like the squid game tracksuits entered the mix here for a real festive holiday mix. I suggested possibly a tracksuit TaskRabbit. Love this. Love this. Portal. Portal.

Oh, boy. Maybe they're... Yeah, that's the best that I can come up with. It was confounding to see how many people showed up. Maybe it's like in the film Newsies, which I don't know if you've ever seen the film Newsies. Of course. Of course I've seen the film Newsies. Great. Let's talk about Newsies a lot. But you know you've got your local Newsies. But in order to fight the man, they have to call in the Newsies from all the boroughs. Yeah.

Queens, Brooklyn, never fear. Brooklyn is here. All of that sort of stuff. So I'm just saying, what if the tracksuits, there are different boroughs, different collectives, different colors of their tracksuits. It's definitely possible. Kingpin gathering the five families of leisure wear and maybe they're variant tracksuits from the multiverse. I think I'm interested to see, like, let's say they did have to bring people in right off the street or wherever they got them from.

Did they provide track suits for them or was it like being on track suit, you know, BYOT? That's the cover letter. Yeah. You know, like, hey, if you have a red or green track suit, come through, you know, or if you don't have one, one will be provided for you. We have small to extra large available. Please come pick it up at your nearest bodega.

Who doesn't love company merch? You know? Somebody rolls up in the black tracksuits and Ivan's like, no. No, bro. I am only one who gets to wear black tracksuits. Oh my God. Can we do the other tracksuit question right after this? Because they're related.

Oh, for sure. Justin asks, did the owl eat the tracksuits? And how do we feel about this? Jomie, I would like you to just share the slack that you sent us. The way that you phrase this in slack right after the episode. I can pull it up. We could go verbatim. This is so funny. Those people are dead now, right? The shrunken trunk people, they died small AF.

That killed me. They died small AF. Killed me. Like, it's tough. I mean, you know, you don't want it to be like that. One day you're living your life in tracksuits to the next, your owl food. Steve, does your owl admiration extend to like owl facts? To what degree?

Well, like, what can you tell us about the owl digestive tract? Like, my understanding of owls... Robust. That's what I can say. Yeah, you said they had tough tummies when I asked a question about this recently. Yeah, it's robust. As a science project, I had to dissect an owl pellet. Okay, I too have spent some time with some owl scat. Follow-up question. Does the owl have the dexterity to open the tiny door of the tiny... Yeah, like peel in a sardine can to get those tiny... It's not about dexterity. It's about will for them. Yeah.

Kind of feel like the talents. Yeah. Perseverance. Those guys are dead. They got eaten by Rocky the Owl and they died. And Kate and Clint, our heroes, are murderers. Murderers. They used the Pym Arrow to shrink them, had no idea how to restore them. Clint was just like, I'll have to

Scott about that. And then immediately they were scooped up by a bird of prey. You see the ending of the lighthouse. It's just like that. Wow. I mean, there's another possibility, right? Either they got eaten by the owl or they fell to their deaths. Right. Which could have been like, you know, 12 feet in the air. But to them felt like which of those would you which of those would you prefer if you were in that? I'm going to need to eat me. I'm going to do. I'd rather the alley. I'd rather know that I went out nourishing an animal. That's

That would bring me peace. I don't want to fall. That feels like a slower death than the fall. The fall and the like. Think of how small they are. That fall would feel eternal. What if it eats you starting with your feet and then you have to like hang out there while this owl. Oh no, it's like an organ bite. Like you're going all in us. They don't have teeth. They can't chew me. Crunching bones and all.

It's pack watch early if the owl gets you. Nah. I'm not falling off the end of my bed. Oh my God. And it feels like six years. Nah. I'm not going out like that. All right. This last one's for Joanna, our musical theater expert. Comes from Tom Robson. Honestly, the thought of a full Rodgers the musical exhausts me. And I love musical theater. But how would you feel about a what if episode?

The Avengers was a musical episode. Well, I love a musical episode of television, personally. And we should shout out an Easter egg that I didn't talk about, but I guess if I'm a musical theater expert, I will say is that Mark Shaman, who composed the musical, shows up as the composer in the audience. People are like, who's that guy they keep cutting to? It's Mark Shaman. It's a musical composer. That's what you want in your Marvel stinger, right? Yeah.

A What If Musical episode? Sure. I was saying after...

No Way Home that I really wanted a Tom Holland Zendaya musical movie, not necessarily a Marvel one, but I think Florence Pugh can sing as well. Yeah. Show me his face. Oh, did you just get excited? Excited? The exact opposite. Oh. Are you a musical hater? You hate musicals? No, here's the thing, right? If you go to TheRinger.com or

Earlier this year, we did a high school musical. We ranked all the songs high school musical. And I was very instrumental in that. I love a good musical. How high is Keep Your Head in the Game? I think that was outside the top five because Troy doesn't sing or Zac Efron doesn't sing. He's dubbed. I did know that. We can't have that. I need authentic. Bet on it is like number four. It's top five because he's singing in that. Long story short, I love a good musical.

To watch the entire episode of Hawkeye and then be subjected to four minutes of Save the City was one of, bar none, the worst experiences of my life. Every single second, I hated it. I'm just, I'm just be honest with you. I'm not here for MCU Hamilton. I'm just not. I just can't do it. That's the bottom line. I can't do it. Hayley, we know can sing.

She's in a Pitch Perfect film. She's a singer. I think if we got it as a what-if episode or a standalone experience, it would be a joy. It was only because of its function here as a stinger when everyone's waiting to see if Kingpin is live, but it didn't work. Shout out to my guy. That's a good one.

That's great. Adam Pascal. I mean, okay, you want to talk about how I enjoy spoilers, right? At the end of this episode, of course, it was me with my mouse on the scroll bar, and I just scrolled all the way through the credits, and I was like, oh, we're just getting the musical. Okay. So I was able to watch it with peace of mind because I was like, you can, you know, it'll pop up a little preview, and I was like, oh, that's all we're getting. Okay. But yeah, shout out to Adam Pascal. Yes. Yes. A what if musical? Yes. Yes.

20 minutes of animated musical? Jomie. Jomie. Add it to the season two slate. Jomie. What, I mean, what if it wouldn't be too bad? Cause you know, it wouldn't really matter. But like, if we're watching, you know, a Marvel movie in three years and then someone starts singing, it's like, oh, it's a variant from the musical world of Marvel. I'm going to be upset. You guys, Harry Styles is in the MCU now. Just saying. Oh, yes.

Watermelon sugar. Wow. Wow. Is One Direction MCU canon now? Steve dared to invoke the Spider-Man musical Turn Off the Dark, a legendary fiasco. We need everybody to be safe. So I think that's how we're closing out this discussion. A fitting end note.

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Jabba ruled with fear. I intend to rule with respect. Now that we've answered some of your questions, I have a burning question for Mallory Rubin. I asked Mallory to please get me on her level for Book of Boba Fett. And she very wisely delegated that responsibility. I choose to look at it as sharing something that I love with someone else I know loves it too. Who's joining us to talk about Boba, Mallory?

It's Ringer Star Wars scholar Ben Lindbergh. Ringerverse listeners have heard Ben before. He has joined to chat about Visions and Bad Batch. Ben will be writing about the Book of Boba Fett every week on TheRinger.com. I'm sure he'll pop on the pod with us at some point to dive into the lore he knows best.

everything about Star Wars. We love to chat about all things in the galaxy far, far away with our guy, Ben. So he is joining us to try to offer up a condensed prep list for Boba because, you know, like my advice would be let's watch all of Clone Wars together. Let's do it, right? But...

You can start with just a handful of episodes that feature Boba. For example. Someone must like to sleep. Before we get into the prep, Ben, I want to know why you're excited for Book of Boba Fett.

I'm excited because I feel like this segment marks the passing of the Disney Plus belt temporarily. This was a slow Star Wars year and Disney Plus was all about the Beatles and the MCU. And that's okay because I think Star Wars fans needed some time to catch their breath and lick their wounds and relax.

maybe come to terms with certain sequels or not, but I hope they use this time to rest and recharge because 2022 is going to be a big, busy year for Star Wars. And the Book of Boba Fett is the beginning of that.

I am so excited. I cannot wait to see this show. I can't wait for all of us to talk about it. I can't wait for everybody in the world and the viewing public to get to read your wonderful weekly breakdowns on TheRinger.com. What a great website. Everybody check out Ben's scholarship, Star Wars scholarship, every single Wednesday. I'm going to just loosely say mid-morning. We won't put a specific time again, so we'll say mid-morning. Don't give me too tight a deadline here. Ben,

We only have a few minutes here, but as a primer, heading into the holiday weekend, getting ready for this much-anticipated premiere, anybody out there or anybody on the Zoom with us named Joanna who's looking for a rundown, a prep list, what to revisit, what to watch. Can I really quickly tell you everything I know about Boba the Fett? Boba the Fett. Boba the Fett. That'll tell you, right? Yeah, I think... Number one, his backpacks got jets. Yeah.

Love a jetpack. And he bounty hunts for Jabba the Hutt to finance his vet. So, you know. That's about all we knew about him for decades. And that's kind of one of my big questions going into this series is basically, can Boba be a leading man? Because he's been a cool looking background character and he's been a useful supporting character, but...

But this series really answers the question of whether he can carry his own story in addition to being a bad guy or a sidekick in someone else's story. So I had some misgivings about this character coming back because once we had the Mandalorian, I wondered, do we need another guy who is best known for his helmet and his armor and his jetpack? But ultimately, I think the comeback worked out well. The answer is yes.

Yeah, he still has something to prove in the series. So I'd say my level of hype is somewhere between, say, Bad Batch, which I liked, you liked, but wasn't a weekly highlight for me, and something like The Mandalorian or Obi-Wan or Ahsoka, which I'm extremely psyched for. So if I weren't a massive Star Wars fan and nerd and someone who writes about StarWarsForTheRinger.com, I'd probably still need to be sold on this series because it's a spinoff that

wasn't part of the plan from the start. So I think we're waiting to see whether this is going to be a supplement to Mando and a place for character cameos or a show that develops its own identity and tells an interesting standalone story. But I think you have to be excited if you're someone who's excited about The Mandalorian and admires that show, given that this is the same creative team. This isn't

Star Wars Resistance or Bad Batch, which were created by Dave Filoni, but mostly made by others. This is hands-on Filoni, Favreau, Robert Rodriguez, Ludwig Gorenson. This is the brain trust back together. And I'm a big fan. Ludwig is back? That's right. And his wind and

That brain trust, Ben, and also the anticipation, right? Like you're digested in the Sarlacc pit over thousands of years. And that's how long questions about Boba and anticipation about learning more about Boba have been brewing among Star Wars fans. This is a moment of joy.

And I hate that I feel this way because I don't want to encourage this behavior. But despite the fact that it's causing us much more work during the one week of the year when it's most acceptable to slack off, the fact that Disney hasn't sent screeners is perversely making me more optimistic about this series. Right. In the premiere. Yeah.

It's like being in a relationship with someone who's withholding, which somehow makes you want them more. I think it's not a good dynamic, but... I love this glimpse into your psychology. Yeah, that's how I feel. So sometimes not sending screeners can be a bad sign. But in this case, it seems consistent with the Mandalorian strict anti-spoiler strategy. So... But even with Mando, even with Mando, they let... Like, they did some screening events before season one, right? Like...

So I know you're going to give us like a prep list and I'm so grateful to you for that. But do you have any like, like if there's going to be some sort of baby Yoda, Grogu-esque reveal in the first episode. Which baby will we get in Jabba's palace? Right. What are we getting? Before, I'm thinking, what's the hook here? Like, how interested am I in whether Boba can be a good businessman and make the crime lords cooperate? Whereas now I'm wondering, what secrets are they hiding here? Like, what cute baby are they?

Are we going to get in the premiere? Are we going to get baby Basque? What babies are on the board here? So I'll speculate briefly, but you wanted some recommendations. Ben, can I make a quick observation before you do your list here? Yes. The way that you are sitting right now, where your camera is, where your computer is, we cannot see your face at all. You have your microphone completely. And it's working in the context of this conversation. It's real boba. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So much more mystique with the helmet on. You're fully committed to your craft here and I respect it. Correct. Okay. You want recommendations. So as you wish. The good news is that because Boba hasn't really been the headliner before, there's a lot less to catch up on than there will be for Obi-Wan or Ahsoka. So there's a lot of legends material out there that explored how Boba survived the Sarlacc pit and

It's possible that Bookaboba will draw on some of those old books and comics and video games as Filoni has previously in salvaging some other ideas and characters. But for now, I'll stick to current canon. So this stuff counts here. Let's start with something obscure. I want to tell you about a little flick called The Empire Strikes Back. It's old. It's been around for a while. Oh, God. No disintegrations. No disintegrations.

I know this is a Hawkeye pod, but I'm going to assume everyone who's interested in Book of Boda has seen the Star Wars films at some point. So if you haven't seen Empire or Return of the Jedi, go do that. Now's the time to start. Yeah. Not because it will prepare you for the Book of Boba Fett, but because they're the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Just go on Disney Plus, mouse over from that Marvel tab over to the Lucasfilm tab and you're in business. Yeah.

And I'll give you a much more qualified recommendation in this case for Attack of the Clones, which is the worst Star Wars movie, but which will help you understand Boba's origin story as well as that Anakin and Padme meme, if you've been wondering what that was for the past few months. So I have one more movie rec. I'll save that for the end. Beyond the movies, I'd encourage everyone to check out the Clone Wars episode because

Because my bratty little cartoon dude. Yeah. I mean, we want you to watch all of Clone Wars. But if you're just dabbling here, you know, Filoni is going to have some callbacks to those episodes which he oversaw. So there's a three episode arc at the end of season two episodes 2021 and 22, which are about Boba trying to get revenge on Mace Windu for killing his dad. And when you say get revenge, you mean he literally tries to blow up Mace Windu.

Like he is just actively on a murder campaign. Okay. Yeah. And he becomes conflicted about his methods and about bounty hunting and not following his father's code. And it seems like that's going to come into play in Book of Boba where you hear him say, I am not a bounty hunter in the trailer. Yeah.

And Boba's also in season four of The Clone Wars. So episode 20, Bounty, is another good one to watch because at that point he's a little older. He's already running a bounty hunting syndicate. So he's pretty precocious. And it's the last time that we see him prior to the original trilogy. And while we're talking about animated shows, check out episode four of The Bad Batch, Cornered, which gives us our earliest look at Fennec Shand.

who is going to be Boba's partner in crime in this series. And that could come into play in Book of Boba because in Bad Batch, Fennec is trying to capture Omega, whom we later learn is Boba's sister. So that's awkward, potentially, or not. We'll see. Then you have the Mandalorian. Wait, we got to get the Bad Batch...

where Fennec goes head-to-head with my dude, Cad Bane. That's a good one, too. Because that was like... I've always thought that Cad was really the only one ahead of Boba on the Bounty Hunter power ranking. Right. Fennec annihilated him. Annihilated him. That is Fennec's finest moment so far. And...

Then in Mando, I think there are four or five must-see episodes for Book of Boba purposes. So season one, chapter five, that's the big one. The gunslinger introduced Fennec and also gave a glimpse of Boba at the very end, although we weren't sure of that at the time. The jingle jangle of the verse. Right. Okay. The season two premiere, the marshal, maybe you remember as the Timothy Oliphant episode. Excuse me.

Excuse me. Maybe? I know you remember it that way. We remember it as the Timothy Olyphant. Maybe. How dare you have a Timothy Olyphant life-size cutout? The only person who could have upstaged the big reveal of Boba at the very end of this episode where we get the first glimpse of his face. Yeah.

And then the last three episodes of season two, so the tragedy, the believer, the rescue, those are big Boba episodes. So this is when he and Fennec team up with Din Djarin. They help rescue Grogu. They defeat Moff Gideon. And of course, the post-credits scene of the season two finale of The Mandalorian set up Book of Boba in the first place by showing Fennec killing everyone,

Bib Fortuna and Boba parks himself on Jabba's throne. And that's where we are when this series starts. So check out all that. A few other wrecks. The story of the Faithful Wookiee, which is the short from the notorious Star Wars holiday special that introduced Boba. That's on Disney Plus now. It's about 10 minutes long and it's useful just for the historical context. That's the first time he was ever on screen, even before Empire.

And then there's Under the Helmet, the legacy of Boba Fett, which is roughly 20 minutes. It's a Disney Plus doc that came out last month and covers the character's evolution. And lastly, I guess I would recommend watching Solo.

a Star Wars story. And Boba is not in Solo. It takes place quite a few years before Book of Boba, but I think it fits for a few reasons. For one thing, it's underrated. I like Solo, so I'd recommend watching it anyway. But also, it's very concerned with the criminal underworld of Star Wars. Are you saying the phrase Crimson Dawn? Yeah. Might come back to play. That could come up. All right.

So that'll help you get immersed in the milieu and introduced to some of the major players there. And also, we never got the solo sequel. I'm still holding out hope someday, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that story continue via Book of Boba in some form, whether it's through flashbacks or callbacks or crossovers. Like if I had to bet on something that might be coming in the premiere, maybe. Yeah.

maybe we get something related to Solo. I don't know. And final note, I guess Boba shows up all over the current canon comics as well. So if you're a comics person and you really want to get in the mood for more Boba, you can check out some of his appearances. He's in really all of them. He's in Darth Vader. He's in Bounty Hunters. War of the Bounty Hunters, Age of Rebellion. They're

arcs about Boba or at least one-offs. So there's a lot to check out there. So I started this by saying there wasn't that much to catch up on. Then I gave you a really long list, but... I genuinely just wrote everything you said down. Even though I could have just asked you to send it to me, I genuinely just wrote it down. Follow-up question. Yes.

In terms of the timeline, like who from Solo, is there anyone from Solo who like timeline wise could show up in Book of Boba Fett? I mean, we're about 15 years past that film at this point, but a lot of people are still bouncing around. I mean, obviously you have Han out there. You have potentially, I mean, Kira is showing up in the comics and playing a bigger role there and everything.

That's what I was going to say. Like, Emilia Clarke. Yeah. Emilia Clarke with a little bit of, like, I don't know. They don't even, 15 years is nothing. You don't have to even put gray in her hair. Right. Just, like, bring me, or, like, emphasis or no. Okay. Yeah. All right. I'm going to rewatch Solo. Yeah. A phrase I never thought I'd say, but here we are. All right. Time by chat here. I love it. Hashtag make Solo 2 happen. Yes, please. Please. Please. All right, Ben. Thank you for...

Going under the helmet of content here with us. My pleasure. It was a joy. Thank you. Can't wait to talk about Boba with you all season long. Likewise. Can't believe it's Boba time. Unbelievable. That's it for us on this very special holiday episode of House of R. Working title. Hawkeye retrospective Boba Fett primer.

A reminder again, of course, Monday, I will be back with Van and Charles for House of R crossover event. Talk about Matrix Resurrections.

Wednesday, Midnight Boys. Pew, pew. Pew, pew. Covering Book of Boba Fett, episode one. Friday, ringing in the new year with Mallory and Joanna talking about Book of Boba Fett, episode one. Deep dive. Cannot wait. The Ring of Verse is on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, at The Ring of Verse. That's how you can find us. You can join, send questions, ideas, thoughts. You can follow the podcast on Spotify or wherever else you listen to your podcasts. Give us those five stars on Spotify now. There are star rankings. Star rankings.

Give us the five stars. We want them. I'd like to give some thanks here at the end of it all to a scruffy looking nerf herder I like to call Steve Allman and the high of scum and villainy that is our producing team, Arjuna Ramdipal, TD St. Matthew Daniel, and the Grogu of this podcast.

our darling, darling baby boy, Joe Miodinaron for his work on social. Literally the nicest thing any one person could say about any other person. A Grogu comp? Oh my God. Incredible. I'm so excited to join you in a galaxy far, far away next week, Mel. Until then, happy holidays from the Ragnarverse. But you did the really cool body throw. Yeah. Thank you. Stop making me like you. I'm sorry. I can't help it. That was really fun.

Bye

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