Netflix’s ‘Avatar: The Last Airbender’ Winners and Losers
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This episode is brought to you by Experian. I don't know if you've ever looked in your subscriptions on your phone and noticed that you had like four or five subscriptions. Maybe you didn't realize you were still paying for, or maybe you got some email for something and you're like, I thought I canceled that. Well, this is what happens. These days, anyone could be missing out on savings from subscriptions they've totally forgotten about. It's not just the ones you forgot to get rid of. It's the ones that they have better deals.

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If the world is gonna have any chance, it's gonna need Aang. Right. There goes the savior of the world. I've chased down every hint of the Avatar. It's my destiny. I'm not someone who can stop the Fire Nation. I don't want the responsibility. You don't have to do this alone. You have me, Tara, and a flying ball of fur. What more do you need?

Welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, she's the Agni to my Kai. Did I say this last time we did an Avatar podcast? Maybe. Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mallory. How are you doing? Joanna Robinson, the moonslayer herself. Hello. Hello.

We're here to talk about Avatar, The Last Airbender, Netflix's eight-episode live-action adaptation of the animated series. If you want to hear our thoughts on the animated series, a show we love dearly and truly, we did a...

top 10 moments for for that show uh like you know a week and a half ago thereabouts you can go listen to that if you want to if you want to get our general sense of our fandom for the animated series but today we just wanted to take you through uh the netflix live action series we're not doing a deep dive because it's eight episodes we're not sure where everyone is on their watch that sort of thing so we thought we'd bring back an old ringer classic which is

the winners and the losers of Avatar The Last Airbender. We've picked eight. Four winners, four losers. Four elements, four kingdoms.

eight episodes of the show. There's a lot of numerical synchronicity here. Um, Molly, how do you feel about this format? Are you excited to declare winners? Yeah, I love a winners and losers rubric here at the ringer. It's a, I'd say a part of the soul of the ringer universe. So this is our first house of our winners and losers experience. I'm excited. It feels right. And I think it's a nice way to chat about a show where, um,

Some things worked and some things didn't. We have some notes, some things to celebrate as well. Absolutely. We'll be talking about those things today. Parking reminders generally. Dune 2 is upon us very soon. We are so excited. The whole Ringiverse plus House of Our Crew went to go see it last night.

I got to see everyone. That was so fun. Wonderful. Van commentary on Dune 2 is sort of everything you want in a theater. So great time. So the Midnight Boys, we'll be doing double Dune coverage this week. They'll be doing a look back and then they'll be covering, they'll have their instant reaction to Dune 2. The Mint Edition is doing, speaking of Avatar, The Last Airbender, a cartoon to live action. Here comes the pitch episodes. You might want to listen to that over on Mint Edition. And then we...

the house of our lovers, spice heads galore, lovers of Arrakis. We'll be doing our double dune celebration next week. We'll be back on Monday with the deep dive and then we'll be doing a hall of fame. This is the introduction of this like

that we've been talking about for a really long time, right? Second episode. Oh, yeah, yeah. We did the Loki. Thank you. We did Loki. Just as we celebrated Loki, we shall be celebrating Paul Atreides, a character that we think is fascinating and we want to talk about. Muad'Dib! Muad'Dib. Welcome into the house of our Hall of Fame. MuSol! Lisan al-Ga'ib! Welcome, welcome. So, yes, Hall of Fame. I can't wait for that. For Paul Atreides next week, as well as our Dune to deep dive over under...

three hours on the on the Dune deep dive Vegas is taking it off the board yeah okay great wonderful wonderful wonderful Holly Rubin if folks have thoughts about Dune three body problem which is further on down the road

This avatar, an apple that they ate, a refutation of Mina Kime's great thread about apples over on Twitter. Salient insights from a brilliant mind. Some briny pickle takes. Like, where should they put all those thoughts and feelings? Yeah. So a few things. If you have some missives that you'd like to say, the inbox is always open. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com.

dot com. Send your thoughts. If you don't have thoughts to send, but you want to hear thoughts from us, follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're at it, check out the Ringerverse's various social media handles, the Ringerverse's on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. Did the Ringerverse gang take a group photo with the Dune fuck it bucket?

You'll have to follow on social to find out. Did I travel down to LA and buy the bucket just for the photo opportunity? Did Miley Rubin, as soon as she got her bucket, which she was very fearful of because she was like,

I put my popcorn in this? Has this been watched? Has it been watched? Have other people touched it? She said that first. The second thing she said was, I can't wait to take our photos. And as they're sitting waiting for the movie, she's like, I can't wait to take our photos after. So the photos exist because of how everyone willed it to be. They're pretty tame, I gotta say. You know, if you told me to like fist the bucket for content, I would have.

Spoiler warning and adult content warning. The adult content warning came a little late today. Too late, I think. This is a kid's show, so I apologize. House of R contains adult content occasionally. Great stuff. Probably not too bad today, but we'll see. No promises. Spoiler warning. Yeah. All the way up through the eighth episode of the live action. And what we say, dare we say, some dribs and drabs.

From the animated series as well, because some of the season one live action show dips into later episodes of the animated series. And I cannot promise that we will not reference those things as we talk about this. Does that sound fair, Mallory? Yes. I think that anything that happened in the animated series in season one that was not included in this is fair game. And anything that was actively moved forward from future seasons is fair game. We will do our best to limit slash avoid this.

long-term character arcs and plot points. That won't happen. Or will it? Mostly. We might have some contextualization that accounts for where certain characters go, but we're not going to be like in episode seven of season three at the 11-minute mark. Correct. I don't think. All right.

After that smooth introduction and flawless spoiler wording, and me definitely remembering to ask you where people can follow the pod, here we go to talk about eight episodes of the Netflix series. Showrunner Albert Kim is the mastermind behind this season. After the original animated series creators left, we'll be talking about Mike and Brian a little later in this podcast, and I'm really excited to talk about them. But that's something to just bear in mind.

that whatever's going on here is something that the original creators are like, that's not really our interpretation of our story or that's not really what we want to spend our time doing. That's just something that I was thinking about while I was watching the show. It doesn't, let's just go now to our opening snapshot. So yeah, we just wanted to use like brief overall thoughts on the show. I would just say like with,

As I indicated on several prep pods for this or hype drafts or whatever it was, I was really, really, really worried about this show because Brian and Mike left. And I will just say for my big picture thought is that I didn't dislike it as much as I was worried I was going to dislike it, which is why we have four solid winners, I think, to talk about this week, or at least three and a half solid winners to talk about this week. Um...

I was really, really worried about the show. And then I was watching and I was like, oh, well, I like that. And I like that. No, I don't mind that. Oh, that's actually like a nice adaptive change. I know some people are completely out on this and some people have never seen the animated show or like really into it and excited to like learn about this new world. So there's a whole, I see a whole mix of reactions to this show. Molly Rubin, where are you sitting this fine Monday morning?

You know, I thought this was a mixed bag. Yeah. Which is why we've once again landed on our winners and losers rubric for today. I genuinely did not dislike this season of TV or think that this was like

let's say in Avatar The Last Airbender movie-esque abomination. Like we have seen, we know what a true failure to execute a live action adaptation of the story looks like. That's not what this was. I found things to like in this. I found things to enjoy. Ultimately, I found myself like, because we have not only seen the original series, but have such a deep and abiding affection for it.

I was unable to stop thinking about it as I was watching this, which is reasonable and I guess predictable for people who love the animated series. So on the one hand, I can't put myself into the position of somebody who is coming into the Avatar universe for the first time. As you know, that was one of the things I was excited about in the run-up to the show was not only...

seeing this show and seeing how Netflix brought the world to life, but, like, what a Netflix banger can mean for people discovering a world. And, like, my hope remains that people who watch this for the first time, this is their first introduction to the Avatar universe, are excited to

hopefully go watch the original animated series, go watch Korra and fall deeper into the world. I think that if you don't have an attachment to the original source material and you came into this cold, maybe things about it don't work, but I think probably it's a pretty enjoyable experience. Some of the changes I actually think are okay. Yeah, I agree. And some of them I am utterly perplexed by and confounded by. I was thinking a little bit about

Ahsoka watching this, not like, which is different, obviously, because even though this is not a beat for beat for beat recreation of the first season of the animated series, as we'll discuss, like the, the, the condensing and reordering of some of the plots is something that was on our minds watching it. But, but,

the redoing the thing we've already seen in live action, the Ahsoka live action show is not a redo of Clone Wars or Rebels. It's a new story. But I was thinking a lot about that like initial acclimation period, even with performances that we ultimately ended up in some cases really enjoying, where just you're seeing somebody brought to life by a different performer in a different way. And it just takes you a while to get used to it. Right. So like, as is often the case revisiting it, I found that a

little bit easier to hang with, but ultimately just some of the performances I thought captured. I'm okay with everything being different. Like, it has to be definitionally. I actually think attempting, like, a cosplay of the original would be a mistake. Like, giving the performers room to do their own thing is probably necessary, or it always is going to seem like mimicry or, like, a pale imitation of the thing we got before. But...

I think just definitionally, the truth is going to be that some of those performances and some of the... Some of that is how the characters are brought to life by the performers, and some of it is just how the characters are written and what they have to do in the story. Like, what the actual scripts are, what the material is that each character's working with. Some of that just worked better than others, and we will hit that as we go today. So, yeah. On the cosplay front, it's interesting to me, one of the more alarming trends I've seen, mostly on TikTok, I haven't been spending a lot of time on Avatar TikTok, but...

Are people comparing this to the M. Night Shyamalan movie and claiming the M. Night Shyamalan movie was better? And I can only chalk this up... Absolutely not. I know. But I can only chalk that up to a similar thing as what happened with the prequels, which is like a generation who watched the M. Night Shyamalan movies when they were kids and maybe had never seen the animated and they sort of like grew up with some light affection for it. But I'm actually... I'm not putting...

the prequels and prequels are better than the end night Shyamalan avatar movie. Let me be clear. But, um, that generational thing of like the generation who like went to the movies as kids to see that movie with like the eyes of children are like, maybe that movie wasn't so bad. I can, I can hang with that when you're talking about some weirdness,

wig and costume issues because on the cosplay front, we're going to come back to wigs a little later, but like on the costume front, this is what made me believe that both believe that Albert Kim, who ran the show and the various people working on the show were huge fans of the animated series because the costumes and the wigs and everything are like meticulous recreations of the animated version. Um, and, um,

What I will say for the M. Night Shyamalan movie is that the costuming and the wigs and stuff like that were just sort of like a nice adaptation into what this would look like in a more realistic live-action world. I can give it that. But I can't give it anything else in this life or the next. No quarter for that movie, which is terrible. I rewatched that movie this weekend. It is astoundingly bad. I mean, it is, I think, one of the worst...

things ever ever made committed to the public record like it is in every respect it misses the mark and so again this is absolutely leaps and bounds superior to that and it's the way that they say just to and avatar and avatar all of the pronunciations being different for absolutely no reason everything about it is just utterly confounding and befuddling just uh

So I want to just make sure I'm being clear on the cosplay point. Like, I don't actually mean... I think your point about the costumes is a great one. I mean, like, the performers. No, I know what you meant. I was just guessing. I think you're used to the word. Yeah. I felt better about the people who weren't trying so hard to be the original versions of themselves. And those are, like, the places for me to celebrate, um...

Whereas someone like the young actor who's playing Sokka, like there's a lot to enjoy in his performance, but there are times when I just felt him like straining just sound exactly like the animated version. And I'm like, well, you don't have to, man, you could just do your own thing and that works too. So anyway, we'll talk about all of this, but yeah, I mean, overall, I would say the problem we talked about this in our prep pod and Dave and Neil and I talked about this a lot on trial by content last week, we were talking about live action adaptations of animated series and

you a live action adaptation just has this extra burden of needing to justify its existence when a perfect thing exists like the animated series so why does this live action version exist the most optimistic interpretation um is mallory's which is like what a what a way to introduce a whole new subset of people into a world they may not ever check out because they're like

I don't want to watch a Nickelodeon kids animated show or whatever. So that's, that's a bright and sunny idea. The more cynical look is this is an IP cash grab, you know? I don't think that's why they did it. I just think that could be one of the benefits. Totally. IP wars, streaming wars. This is just our new reality. So I, I don't believe this show justified its existence, but I wasn't angry at the end of it that I watched it. That's where I, that's where I land at the end of the day.

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This is what happens. These days, anyone could be missing out on savings from subscriptions they've totally forgotten about. It's not just the ones you forgot to get rid of, it's the ones that they have better deals. And that's where Experian comes in. It's like a personal assistant for your subscriptions. It can cancel over 200 plus subscriptions in categories like streaming services, meal kits, entertainment apps, and more. You could save an average of $270 per year

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So let's go now, shall we?

to our four winners and four losers of Avatar The Last Airbender, Netflix's live-action eight-episode series. Mallory and I have each picked two winners and two losers each, though we roughly co-sign each other's picks. It's not like we're objecting to anything, but I think you will be able to tell, at least in one instance, who picked which entry.

We're going to alternate. We're going to start with a loser only because I want to end with a winner. So we end with an upbeat celebration of the world of Avatar. But that means we're starting with a loser. And it is my go first, I suppose. And this is the only time we're centering on one character. And I have actually seen some people enjoy this depiction of this character. But for me, this version of Iroh

misses the mark in a very significant way. So for me, a loser, this depiction of Uncle Iroh. And I think the reason it stood out to me so much is when we heard about the casting...

And Paul Sun-Yong Lee, who we know from Mandalorian and Kim's Convenience, seemed like perfect casting me, especially his work on Kim's Convenience where he plays, you know, a character who is referred to as Appa. He is so wonderful and warm on that show. And so I was like, oh, yeah, that's Iroh for sure. And then he shows up here and...

First of all, he doesn't look quite right to me because he looks too like neat and tidy. I need, I need my Iroh to be a little shabbier than what we got here. Um, but mainly we start promisingly there is some like funny business with like, I see some snacks I want and stuff like that. But overall, I feel like they decided to, this is true for a lot of

characters that decide to zero in on one aspect and ignore the full-bodied richness of a character. And for Iroh, they focused in on the emotional connection to Zuko, the, you know, sorrow around the loss of his son, all of that. And the emotional connection with Zuko, the avuncular father figure, all of that sort of stuff, that comes through. But I was missing the full picture of Iroh, which is that he is like

silly and weird and funny. And people constantly underestimate him because of that. That whole other aspect. And that is why Iroh is like one of our most cherished characters because of all the notes he plays. And so to see an actor who I know is capable of that, be given material that only lets him do a fraction of this beloved character. And Iroh, I think is like,

the spine of the show in many ways, um, real, it was a real mess for me. Um, how'd you feel? Yeah. So of the eight selections that we have landed on today, I think this is the, certainly the one where we have the largest gap in our feelings. And honestly, maybe the only one of the eight where we really have any differing opinion on it. I think we're pretty aligned, uh, on the rest of them. I don't,

I don't necessarily, like, as you're laying that out, it's hard for me to dispute a single part of that. I think that the Iroh performance worked a little bit better for me because actually of what you're identifying, which is that broad decision to focus in on the one thing, which I think is a limitation of the adaptation on the whole, without a doubt. Mm-hmm.

The thing that they centered on here, how Zuko and Iroh's respective trauma and loss has brought them together, connects to... Again, if you'd like to hear more of our thoughts on this, please check out our prior podcast where we discussed our favorite moments from the original animated series. My single favorite thing about the original show. And so I...

Like, I am such a sucker and such an easy mark that, of course, it won't surprise you to hear that as we are watching Iroh sit at his son's service, tears streaming down his face as Zuko gives him not only the medal, but this beautiful insight about what Luten gave to Zuko, not just physically and literally, but this lesson, this important thing. And they break out the cords. Yeah.

And we were watching this on the couch and he was like, how dare they? I agree. Yeah. And you too. I, he was, I told, I, I previewed your take on this for him and he was very happy. Um, I was just like a wreck. It got me. So that part of it worked for me. I think that broadly what you are identifying about the absence of the quirkiness and the oddity is,

is totally right. And I felt that too. It connects to a larger feeling that we have about the season that we will be discussing later on today's episode. Take a little moment like the Omashu arrival where Zuko, of course, can't,

spare a moment, right? And Iroh is so excited to sample the offerings, taste some delicious meat, right? Of course, it's always tea time. Yeah. But also just to like steep, not just the tea leaves, but to steep in a culture, right? And I gather it's charm is lost on you when he says that to Zuko. Like those are the kind of moments in addition to the quirkiness that

That I would have loved more of because, as you're saying, Iroh is like the beating heart of the story. The character who does, and a lot of other characters do this as well, but who's so almost scene by scene, minute after minute, reminds us like why it is worth it.

not just fighting actively, but rooting for and believing in other people, like, and trying to make your way forward. The fact that he can do that, I love the point that you're making about people underestimating him. And, you know, we get a little bit of that, his confrontation with the

deeply resentful and bitter Earth Kingdom soldier, right? Who is carrying his own wound and is like, well, I'm just going to pummel you and you're going to take it. And that's not what is waiting for him on the other end, but it's not nearly as present here. And I think you're, you're right that that's a, that's, that's something we're missing. What I will say is that, you know, rewatch like watching it all the way through and then watching and watching the season again, when I restarted, I was like,

oh no, I was being too hard. Like there's Iroh, like at the beginning. And then that, that whole facet of him goes away, I would say in like the back two thirds of the, of the season. Like we get some glimpses of it at the beginning and then it's like, no time for this, which is a common- Also connects to another thing we'll be discussing today. A common feeling season. I think also what I love, you know, what is helpful in something that is

not wonderful adaptation of something you love is it helps you better understand why the thing you love worked in the first place. So thinking about the missing elements here, I would say part of the beautiful richness of

the Avatar animated characters. And we touched upon this a little bit in our Golden Trios episode that we did, where we were like, well, it's hard to put these kids in one slot because they're constantly sort of like moving all over the place. There's not just their characters arcing. I think what's true of most of these characters is that they have...

these contradictory dual facets to that. You know, like Katara is the sweet, emotional girl until she's like, fuck, angry, scary, you know? And like Toph is tough and hardcore until she's like wounded and she's not. And so all these characters have so many layers

layers to them that you get to see and each layer and each facet that feels almost contradictory makes it so much more rewarding. So like the, the depth of emotion that Iroh has for Zuko and various other people that he meets and the sensitivity and the understanding is,

It's that much harder because he is often so like focused on tea. And so you're just sort of like, oh, but actually he knows. So he knows exactly what matters, which is tea, hot tubs, noodles, and the people that you love. Right. So. And pie show. Of course. Pie show. Of course. Okay. So yeah, that is, that is my first loser I wrote. I'm going to pair it with a winner.

Because while we're talking about the adults in the show, I want to highlight two people that I think just knocked it out of the park entirely. And they are both alums of a TV show that we talk about occasionally. You might have heard of it. It's called Lost. Have you heard of it, Lost?

But the legend Daniel Dae Kim, who played Jin on Lost, and Ken Leung, who plays Miles on Lost, are here as Fire Lord Ozai and Commander Zhao, respectively. I want to start with Daniel Dae Kim, who was, I would argue, the biggest name attached to this show.

Right. You know, other than like, you know, George Takei is doing a voice and like, you know, there's some voice acting stuff like that, but I would say of the live actors, Daniel Dae Kim, uh, is the person that people were like, Oh my God, Daniel Dae Kim is doing this. Um,

Worth remembering that this man is in his mid-50s, and when he takes his shirt off for the IconCon, he has a six-pack. He looks incredible. Unbelievable. But I think additionally, and he's like, not everyone is able to work with the elaborate wig and facial hair that they're given, and he is making the cartoon-accurate Ozai wig and lengthy goatee absolutely work. Like,

doesn't look silly. It looks right. Daniel Kim is great. He's a great actor. This is almost a writing win because they did a complicated pass, uh,

in direct opposition to what I just said about the oversimplification of certain characters, they did a really complicated pass on Ozai here where he reminds me a lot more of a Logan Roy than he does necessarily a Fire Lord Ozai. The masks episode where we get the main Zuko flashback

And we get some of Ozai's motivations for doing, which is not just like, he's an evil asshole. It's he genuinely believes in toughening, toughness and tough love is what his child needs here. Daniel D. Kim is giving some like, some empathy and tenderness in this horrific thing that this father does. It's all like sort of in the, like he genuinely does on some level believe that this is the best thing for his son. Um,

And then added to that is the way in which he's manipulating Azula, his daughter, and pitting his children against each other in a way that Fire Lord Ozai doesn't directly do in the animated series. We also get an Ozai-Iro interaction, which we never get in the animated series. So enjoyable. That was really cool. Yeah, I just thought it was like... I was like, oh! You know, like, you're... Obviously, you hired Daniel Day-Kim. Let's give Daniel Day-Kim more to do than just...

cackling evil, which again, Mark Hamill in the animated is great at. We know that that's something he loves and knows how to do, but this is just a much more complicated OSA. And I love that for me. What do you think Mallory? Easily one of the highlights of the season. And it,

A pleasant surprise in the, like, anticipating run-up where we're excited, of course, that Daniel Day-Kim is in the show. But I think that, for me at least, was paired with the question of, okay, we have a lot of anxiety collectively about what is not going to make it into this season. Yeah, the episodes are long, but there's only eight of them. And so...

We just understood. We know how these seasons are made, right? There's going to be this like condensed, propulsive, plot-driven aspect of the story. You moved, like Ozai is, of course, a presence, a figure, this looming specter from the word go. But Ozai is a character who is actually in scenes, right?

saying things out loud. This moved like way up, right? His role is a prominent figure. Yes. And so while I was very excited to see Daniel Day came in the role, I was like, what will this come in place of? There was not a second that he was on screen that I was worried about that. And in fact, I would have loved to have even more time with him because I thought he was riveting broadly enough

I think Fire Nation was a win of the adaptation. I think there are losses inside of that. We just had the discussion about Iroh. I don't know if we want to talk about this now, or maybe there's a better place to hit this later. Did not particularly enjoy the rendering of the Azula, Mei, Ty Lee trio. Have some thoughts and questions and notes about that that we'll get to at some point today. But we've already discussed Iroh. Whoop!

Pretty fond of the Zuko performance. I think Zuko, I think Dallas New was the best of the main kids. Like easily. Yeah, I thought his performance was great. And again, like we were alluding to in the opening snapshot, the Zuko animated performance is an iconic one and he's a cherished and beloved character. And so you have that initial like, wait, this isn't what I'm,

Just my mind is programmed to receive. But as soon as that ceased, which was like, honestly, like a scene or two, I'm just like, this is a pretty compelling magnetic performance. Yeah.

That captured the spirit of the character as well. I thought he was better than Dev, which is not fair to Dev because Dev is inside a horrible movie. The material that Dev had to work with was, again, an absolute travesty. I never in my life said, I thought this person was better than Dev Patel because Dev Patel is one of my all-time everything always. I thought Dallas Liu as Zuko was complete

triumph for me. Yeah. I really was taken by him. He's a trained martial artist, so his fighting work, especially the Agni Kai, I just thought looked incredible. And Van made this great point on the Midnight Boys, which is that he had the advantage of often working against... He was working opposite...

Ken Leung, Daniel Dae Kim, and Paul as Iroh. He's working against these accomplished adult actors most of the time. He has some stuff with Aang, etc. But most of the time, he's working with adults. That helps, I think. And I agree with that. Looking back, I think Masks was my favorite episode. And it's very much...

a Zuko episode. You know? Yeah. The Zuko backstory stuff I thought was incredible. I agree. And then you built, I loved that point about being paired with the adults and then you get the change of pace of a moment like Aang asking Zuko about the, which hair he uses and his brushes and it's just, I don't know, it like, pretty much everything with Zuko worked for me. I also think, like I was saying earlier, I think that is part of why I,

I didn't mind the Iroh rendering as much because it's just so deeply connected to Zuko and I was such a fan of the Zuko adaptation. But, so, Fire Nation win, Fire Nation win, Ozai win, Commander Zhao, we'll talk about in a minute, win. So overall, I thought the Fire Nation was more successfully rendered than certain other groups. Ozai...

There is like an absolute chilling quality to what we are witnessing. And whether it's a moment of pride and triumph or a moment of judgment and ridicule, your heart is racing and your stomach is clenching in the same way. I felt just as sick watching the glistening in his eye when he saw Azula channel lightning for the first time.

As I did hearing him say to Zuko, his son who he has tormented and maimed,

I have made a mistake. I have sheltered you and it's made you soft like your mother. Like this is just a hideous thing. And the depth as you're, as you're noting that informs our ability to understand what's fueling a person's, how could a person behave that way to somebody they should, that they should be charged with caring and nurturing and protecting and guiding. And then the contrast of Iroh showing up on the boat, like home, all I need is here. Uh,

That was great. The highlight of the season. Yeah. And then the added, I gasped at that line in the added context we have of like, knowing what happened with Zuko's mom. If we are fans of the animated series in the comics, like then you understand where it was. I don't know. I just, I thought it was, I thought it was really well-written, well-performed character. Taylor, they came, uh, maybe has never played a straight villain, at least that I've seen. And so, you know, like really fun moment for him.

Ken Leung, like, I think is my favorite thing that happened in this show. This is a deranged performance. I mean, that is a sincere compliment, obviously. Jael, as voiced by...

your love and mine, Jason Isaacs, in the animated series, like, we love Jason Isaacs. I would never give him a single note. I think his job is fine, but his job winds up being, like, a kind of, like, somewhat unmemorable season one sort of, like, mini-boss on our way forward because Azula and Ozai, like, loom so large later in the series. I'm not going to be forgetting this job anytime soon because, like, the...

absolute genius this actor has. And he did it on Lost. He's done everything. He does it in an industry. He like does it in everything he's ever done. Can't wait for industry to come back. He is just so effortlessly funny. He has this just dry as toast delivery of just like, you know, I was just like rewatching it. And I was like, on the page. Cactus juice in the desert in this season, Jo. Just on the page. Just on the page.

the most like boring lines. And he would just deliver it with this like ironic lilt that I just was just

soaking up. I absolutely loved him. It's funny, I heard from someone, I can't remember if it was an email I read or a tweet, and I apologize, but they felt like they wanted to give the Rewatchables award to Ken for seeming like he's in a different show than the show we're watching. I don't agree, but I see where they're coming from. But this is like the humor I was often looking for. And I'm like, I'm getting it from Zhao, of all people. But I just thought it was...

Scrumptious. Pleasant surprise. Wonderful. I thought he was immensely entertaining and supremely unhinged. I love a delusional striver. Love a delusional striver. And that is one of the tweaks in the adaptation or amplifications that I thought was really smart. Yeah.

Because, like, I love the way you're... The mini-boss framing for original season one is exactly right and perfect. I don't think there's ever really a moment watching it... Sometimes it can be hard to separate, like, where you know things are going from how you felt about it in real time. But I don't really think there's a moment where you're like, this is ultimately who the threat is, right? You sort of know you're waiting to move beyond him. And...

Especially in a story where purpose and motivation is so central for the characters we're investing in, like understanding that in equal measure for the people opposing them on the other side is really crucial. And you pair that with a character who is not only willing, but eager to...

to weaponize the dynamics and interplay between other people and use that for his own ends. Like a moment where he says to Zuko near the very end of the season, the winner is the one without the scar from daddy. Like this is savage. Savage. So good. It was incredible. So good. It was incredible. And to your point about the comedy,

I think that across the season, one of the things that inhibited me from really, really, really luxuriating inside of a specific scene, episode, the season overall, is that the writing occasionally just felt so clunky and ham-fisted. And not just, as is often the case in a moment of exposition, often, unfortunately, in the moments that are supposed to be deeply emotionally resonant,

Zhao was kind of the opposite, where everything he said had a crackling intensity to it. And the zingers, I was trying to think of my favorite because he had a few really funny, loony lines. I think, I wonder what they'll call me when the news reaches capital city. I quite like Zhao the Conqueror. It should have some flair. Best summed up what worked about the character. So good. That was...

Truly great. Truly great. All right. Also, Fire Nation, great. Also, I don't know if I need to say it again, but I will. Watch Lost. What a great show. Okay. Treat yourselves. Loser. I'm going to hand this one over to you, Mallory Rubin. Next loser. Number six. I'd say thank you, but... You're too angry. It pains me to have to share. First loser of the day, Jo. Amy Lover. Amy Lover.

of a magical creature. We're losers today, folks. There is not even close to enough Momo and Appa in this show. And it is something that we need to discuss for a moment. It's something that I cannot understand. I mean, I can. I do actually literally understand. It's incredibly expensive to render these creatures. But...

They are sidelined for such vast stretches of, again, a short season that they're, like, largely absent. They're basically not in the Earth Kingdom run. It's like, what are they doing? It's like...

I mean, I guess, why would they, I suppose, that they can't do it opposite last days? Because like, why would you even notice he's gone when he's always gone? Thank you for saying this because this is something I was thinking of. We talked a lot on our podcast

Top Moments Primer Pod about how, like, one of the things that's so wonderful about both Appa and Momo is that they're just always there, right? Whether they are actively the focus of a given plot point or moment, they're present. And part of that is, like, the charm of just seeing whatever mischief Momo is up to at a given moment. But part of it is reinforcing the theme that they are a part of this family. They are a part of Team Avatar. And so...

It actually is concerning and troubling to me that that is not conveyed here. We do get some cute moments. Like, it's fun to see Appa fly in to the rescue, of course.

Momo, Momo land on Sokka's head. Momo has a few. Yeah, Momo landing on Sokka's head. Delightful. Momo stealing the food in episode two. Delightful. Throwing boulders at Fire Nation warriors with his tail. Hilarious. But holding the food like he's mimicking how Sokka is packing. Great stuff. Digging up the egg corn in episode five. Momo in the palm of his hand showing our heroes that it is possible

It's impossible to believe in hope. Momo with the little soot particle cough warning in episode seven. We get just enough to, I think, actually feel even more keenly what we are missing. Now, the Appa's last day thing, like, when... Lost days, not... God, perish the thought. Not last days. That's so funny. I thought you said lost day. I was like, it's more than one day, but you were like, last day. Many, many weeks. The...

that we and the characters in the show experience when Appa is missing is basically the reality of this series of TV so far, where they're just not present and thus not stitched into the fabric of the family and the universe. The reason, other than just loving Appa, particularly loving Momo and craving them and thinking that they were so cute when we got them, Momo in particular I thought was just darling, this is a real...

worry spot for me, as you know. Like, I actually get beyond the just, oh, I love a cute animal bit. It's not a bit. It's just real. It's just life. I'm sensitive to the world

risk of genre stories of fantasy stories failing to understand something crucial about a bond like this like it's very john and ghost to me it actually genuinely matters that appa and moment momo momo are present for these characters and helping them find the courage in themselves to move forward throughout the day so that's kind of the big picture can i

Before you get to the next point that you're about to say, it's like major, major thing that you want to talk about. I just want to, I just want to ramp up to it to say, yeah, watching this. And I was like, okay, I was watching my screeners. I watched a bit before you. And I was like, because there were things that worked. I was a,

legitimately worried and you were sort of more optimistic about the series than I was. I was a little worried that like you were going to love it and I was not. And then we were going to have to pot about it. And I would feel like I was letting you down, but not liking a thing as much as you liked it. Oh, that wouldn't let me down. I know, but I worry about it. I know you wouldn't, but like in my head, my, my like figment of my imagination head, Mallory would be. And so I was like, Oh no, what if Mallory like loves this and I'm not really like loving it. Oh no. Yeah.

And then, you know, noticing in general the absence of Momo and Appa. And then a thing happens towards the end of the season. I was like, oh, they're dead to Mallory. Oh, it's over for them in Mallory's eyes. So Mallory, what happens at the end of the season? The 13 minute and 45 second mark of the season one finale. A crime occurs. A crime.

Committed by the people who made Avatar The Last Airbender Season 1. Called the streaming cops. For Netflix. I believe that everybody who is in any way responsible for what unfolded here should be jailed. I believe that. What's the phrase that you've texted me and all of us in all caps several times? I believe I said maimed and killed. Several times. I'm very upset about this.

40, 45, Momo. Peril unfolding all around us up in the north flies in the hero that he is to rescue a hapless young member of the northern water tribe. We then get, barely bring myself to say this, we then get Momo screeches as the subtitle. He is crushed to

rock crush and Sokka goes over after insulting him and pulls out his limp

Crumpled body. And Yue and Sokka carry him into the oasis, the healing waters, and view him with life again. Then we get a cute moment. We get a little Momo chitter and Sokka nuzzles him and hugs him and pets him and Momo purrs. And that part's very sweet.

But the fact that we were made to suffer through a Momo injury, one of the fucking like seven moments that Momo is on screen. And by the way, you know what one of the other ones was? It was Sokka saying that... And Sokka saying he wants to eat Momo as part of the canon. That's fine. But cutting like the...

The Thronesian grayscale to pie filling cut equivalent of Sokka saying that Momo looks like chicken and then cutting to somebody grilling a slab of meat. That was in episode two, 615. That is not acceptable. And this is like, remember when we had to see Grogu in the crosshairs in Sanctuary? I do. I do.

fucking actually pulled the trigger and shot him in the face. That's what they did here to Momo. Welcome. Like I, that was like almost like a Charles worthy level rant and I loved it. What are we doing here? What are we doing here? I had to channel Charles for that one. This made me mad. I know it did. My sweet Momo, protect him. I think, I mean, not everything's going to have the budget of something else or whatever, but I do think you're very spoiled by

the puppetry of the Star Wars shows, which means that we get constant Grogu, tons of creatures that just like look like they're actually there and are, you know, are just there. Like, thank you.

Star Wars, you're not always hitting it out of the park all the time on your TV shows, but what you're doing on the puppetry level is phenomenal. And it means that Grogu gets to, like we, Mo should be there as much as Grogu is there in The Mandalorian. Yeah, and I think this gets to this larger point of the ability to properly adapt.

from animation to live action because genuinely, like we could be cognizant of the cost of the CGI rendering all we want if you can't have two of the most central figures. I don't, I mean this sincerely in the story. Why make, why do it? Yeah.

And like, when you think about puppetry, like think about a character, whenever I, Appa, one of my favorite characters of all time, but I always think about Falkor the Luck Dragon from the Never Ending Story film. Like they have very similar vibes to me. And, you know, Falkor, one of the best puppets of all time is just like, you know, again, just there and around and, you know, just,

Anyway, yeah. If you can't do it, why do it? That's a great note. Okay. Number five is back to me. One of my winners. And I'm going to say Bending Effects. We already mentioned the abomination that is the M. Night Shyamalan movie. There's so many things wrong with it. But I would say...

just slightly under the fact that they pronounce it Ong in Avatar. And maybe under the fact that Momo, that Appa looks like an absolutely hideous monster in that movie is the absolutely laughable bending that happens in that movie. That is like slow. That is like the earth kingdom doing just like an entire Haka routine just to lift one rock. Like it's so embarrassing in that movie. And, and you're just like,

Again, if you can't do it, why do it? That applies to the bending. If you can't make bending look cool with whatever access you have to digital effects, then you can't do an Avatar story. This is not really what we're talking about, but you know what drives me fucking crazy on the bending effects front for the first time? They make the nonsensical choice to imply that Fire Nation benders have to have fire around to pull from.

And then, you know, it builds this moment where Iroh's like, oh my, he created his own fire. Okay. Ridiculous. But if you're gonna do that, which you shouldn't, but if you're going to, and there is a climactic battle between the Fire Nation and the Northern Water Tribe, and you are the Northern Water Tribe, would you have fire everywhere? Just everywhere. Literally.

Nestled flames waiting for your enemy. Oh my God. I forgot about that. So this opened, like I, when this season opens and we are, you know, in the long ago part of history. And I had some like disorienting, like, why are we doing this? What, for what reason? I ended up not hating that again, I think because I,

Seeing Air Nation alive and vibrant, again, just gives us that whole, what did we lose? What did we miss? That sort of thing. Spending time in the Shire. I thought Gyatso worked really well, but we're not here to talk about Gyatso and Air Nation at all. Gyatso coming through with some real Shire energy. You're right. Yeah.

But it opens with a bending fight. That's the very first thing we see. As if Albert Kim and all of the folks working on this show are like, we need to let them know right away that we are not going to give them what M. Night Shyamalan gave them. We know what we're doing. And I think the bending looks great. I think it looks...

phenomenal throughout. I have no notes about any of the bending, not fire bending, not water bending, definitely not earth bending looks great. The like stomp up slice off, which is like one of my favorite earth bending moves. Like all of that just, I think looks fantastic. Um,

I think the only thing that I've seen people push back on the betting front is that they think Aang is able to like fly too easily when he should be like more, it should be harder for him to glide. But I think he does that in the animated series all the time. So it's not really a note that I have, but yeah, I just, I thought, I thought it looked fantastic. I thought the fighting overall, I think there was a little bit of an, I guess when we open with that fight,

I was a little... And we'll get to my big note for the season a little later. But I was a little worried at some of the rumors that I heard that Netflix was sort of chasing wanting to have, as everyone has, their own thrones. And I was like, are they wanting to make Avatar into a Thrones-esque show with, like, darker grimmer violence and stuff like that? And they're, you know...

when you're watching people get burned alive in live action, it is a different experience than watching it happen in the cartoon. And I will concede that entirely. But if it, when it comes down to like, I like the fight action of the show. Once again, I go back to that Agni Kai sequence, which I thought was just phenomenal. This all works for me. I thought it was fantastic. What do you think? Yeah, I'm a fan as well. And sometimes a trailer is,

dupes us into thinking something is going to be great and then we're let down. I don't know. Let's just throw out secret invasion as one property where that happened among many others. Remember that moment in time where we were all like secret invasion? I actually thought of the platitudes moment a couple of times while watching this stuff. It's okay.

Why would you bring up Secret Invasion when you just saw me take a mouthful of coffee? You saw it on Zoom. And then you're like, I'm just going to drop these two words. Latitudes. Latitudes. Every now and then we see a trailer where this looks dynamite. And then it's a huge letdown. Thought the Avatar trailers were particularly the final. Not the one that came out like a day before the show, but the one that was like around our hype draft.

And we're encouraging, but the bending effects, I actually think it fell into that opposite camp where you see something just in isolation. You see a little snippet of it and you're like, is this going to look right? Like you've got a little Instagram reel of 10 seconds of Aang airbending over a boulder and like the internet is freaking out.

In the flow of the show, I agree. It was successfully executed. And I thought overall, the show looked pretty good. The sets, the backgrounds, Omashu looked amazing. And I think the temples looked really good that they went into. Yeah, the big Avatar Kyoshi statue, all that sort of stuff. I thought...

Like, Appa, Momo aside, digital effects and also production design-wise, like, we were, yeah, I thought we were doing a great job. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a worry, like, would they be able to pull that off? And I think they did. So that was a relief. And, yeah, you mentioned earlier when we were chatting about Zuko that you could just, I mean, really tell that Dallas is a trained and expert martial artist in those sequences. The street fight scene

in Omashu between Zuko and Aang. I thought that was an interesting example of where you could just... I mean, I don't actually know if this is right or what I'm talking about, to be clear, but it seemed to me sitting on my couch at home with no expertise about this particular area. That's him flipping and spinning. And maybe it isn't, but it really seemed like it was. So that was cool. Also, I mean, while we're talking about fighting, and we'll come back to her, of course, but

Sokka and Suki, real highlight. Like when, you know, when they're training and then when they like team up, the fan fighting is all great stuff. Okay. Back to Mel Rubin for another loser. Okay. Here is the next loser. Side quest. We've been kind of teasing this throughout the discussion today. This is something...

that we were worried about heading in, and I think we were proven right in that concern. Overall, I will say, I understand the decisions in the repackaging and restructuring of...

the season. But that doesn't mean that we're not missing something because of it. The condensing of the plot and the pacing, there are a few different elements of what was lost with the many side quests that we were deprived of. Now, was there ever a scenario where we were going to get all of these? Of course not. But if we think about what is missing in their absence, I think this is really a miss because

And I wonder if just inserting or tweaking, inserting a couple of these or tweaking a couple aspects of this would have like opened up the story in the world. Because I think making the world feel a lot smaller was a big symptom of this. There's just a few examples.

They don't find the waterbending scroll on the pirate ship. So not only does that mean the pirates aren't in the story, sad, it means like the upshot of that, it's not a discovery our characters make, but also Gran Gran just has this thing. And withholding the information. Withholding it from her, like why? It's depriving us of something that also deprives the characters of something bizarre. Yeah.

Is there room in a season like this for the Great Divide journey with the Warring Tribes? Okay, probably not. That's like a lot of new people that you need in the show. But what do we lose? We don't get to glimpse...

Not only like what regular life is like for more people in a certain community, a different community than the few we get to see, but what it means for like the cracks and the fissures to fan out and spread when people are left alone to just stew in their resentment. No fortune teller episodes.

I really miss the fortune teller episode. Huge miss. Like how an entire community can buy into a shared belief that becomes a shared delusion and what it means for our characters to confront that and what it shows us about them and how they think and how they're all on journeys of change, but how are they changing other people around them while also respecting their traditions and their lives? And I think what's brilliant about like,

The Great Divide episode is not my favorite episode, but what's true about both that episode and the Fortune Teller episode is Katara and Sokka come down on the exact opposite sides of, like, the conflicts in both those episodes. And so it's, like, important to see these siblings...

encounter the wider worlds and figure out who they are in relation to all these things that they mean and how they're different, but also how they are family and water tribe and the same at the same time. And so like you miss, I think a lot of these side quests really, the absence of them really hinder the Sokka and Katara. I agree. I agree completely. The, the,

So this is a Lang Zuko thing, but the other thing I was really missing was the, or thinking about like what this change meant was the storm, which is episode 12 of season one. I agree with you about masks being a highlight of this season. And I thought those, as I mentioned, the Zuko backstory reveals were great, but it actually, it did make me question again, what I felt,

at the opening of the season, which is why are we getting this Aang backstory here rather than building toward it? Because I think the entwined reveal of Zuko and Aang's history in the storm, and again, on the side quest front, you're pairing that with like Zuko, it's not a side quest, but we watch him help his crew. We see Aang have to confront a person out in the world who's like,

I blame you specifically for this. And then Aang have to bring himself to reveal to Katara this thing that he has been holding on to. I'll say also on the changes front, I try, I did not used to always be very good at this. I try to be open-minded about changes and like not needing to strictly, strictly, strictly adhere to a text. Um,

I think Aang just like, I need to get in the air to clear my head. I think better up there rather than actively running away and carrying that guilt with him. I'm now smuggling this inside of the side quest thing where it doesn't really belong is a change for the worse. I found that quite strange and puzzling. On the condensed...

The condensed plotting aspect. Jet and his freedom fighters, we meet them in episode 10 of the animated series. Tao and the Mechanist, episode 17, up in the Northern Air Temple. These are not connected plot lines or locations. And not only are they not connected to each other, they're not connected to Omashu. All of that is brought in to the Omashu sequence here. And then Secret Tunnel...

character swap making this a little like thronesian incest for me by making this a katara saka journey instead of a katara uh ang journey bizarre choice but also that's brought up from season two i mean we can't wait for that i just don't understand that why does everything have to happen in omashu in two episodes here as you know i love supertunnel

and the Amashu secret tunnel melange plots is like the most egregious of the like let's cram let's just push everything earth kingdom into sort of like one big mixing bowl but uh having the secret tunnel like singers but not having that like

Not having the bulk of the... That being like the B or C plot almost of that episode, I was just like, this is wrong. This is incorrect to me. Right. Because not only are you like, why is it here? You're like, oh, they already know they're not going to have the space for that in season two. There are things... So it like plays the anxiety forward in a way that made me anxious. But there are things that worked for me like...

Suck and Katara being stuck in the spirit world. You know what I mean? Like rather than being like ill or, you know, there are some various things where I was like, okay, like they're off the board because they're here and not over there. I like that too. And especially it's, as you know, I find it delightful when Momo's like tasked with trying to bring them, just can't get them in the water. He's like bringing them all this other shit instead. Iconic. But making them, putting them on an active quest to face this

this defining truth from their past versus just like, I've got a fever and I will have one until I suck on a frozen toad was, I agree, a good change. On the Sokka and Katara front though, that's the next thing I think we, this gets back to what you were saying a couple minutes ago, like with fewer side quests, fewer new places, fewer characters we're meeting or characters who we are meeting in the season still, I'm about to mention Batuu, but in a different way, we lose something here. We don't get the...

Batuu of the Water Tribe, episode 15, like this entire thing where Batuu comes into the story in the present day. And Aang is the one suddenly...

who is on the outs, who feels like he doesn't belong with this group of people. He's the one tagging along on someone else's journey. I feel like that's like a crucial, crucial, crucial aspect, not only of what we learned about Aang, but of their dynamic as a group and like who is willing to make a sacrifice or an adjustment for the other person and what's

And there was a lot of stuff that I thought we lost on the Aang front with the absence of certain side quests. Like, we don't get the deserter plot, right, from episode 16. We don't get Zhang Zhang. We don't get Aang learning to firebend his first attempt, which is this, like, deep and lasting scar. There are other aspects of the season that I thought effectively tapped into Aang's

fearing his power. I liked when he was reflecting on the other air nomads, like being afraid of him because he, he, his power was so vast. I thought that was really, really sad. Um,

But Aang trying to bend fire, hurting his friend, and genuinely carrying that trepidation and fear and anxiety of what he is capable of doing to the people he loves for... Into season three. Yeah. Is huge. So, like, do you absolutely need a side quest to achieve that? No, there's probably another way you can do it. But if you're not meeting... If you're not seeking out...

a firebending master on a side quest, then when's that happening, right? So you're just losing all of these little things that I think are such important early notes for the characters. And also just like Aang acting as...

like tour guide for Sokka and Katara who have never left the village. And so Aang will be like, oh, we'll go here. They have the best noodles here. We'll do this. Or have you tried the tea from here? And, and, and finding that things have changed, right? Because he's been on ice for a century, but also like sometimes things are the same and he's just like, oh, we got to go visit these springs or we got to do this. Like we're on the road. We're going to do this. And like,

in a preseason interview, I believe it was Albert Kim who was talking about this idea of like, you know, Aang has a vision, Aang sees this, so he's just like, go, go, go. And it just like, again, I want to be understanding of the idea. It's not, it's not,

Albert Kim's decision that this is an eight episode hour long season. And, and, you know, that is a Netflix decision. And so what do you do to make that make sense when you have to strip away all this stuff, you make it a more propulsive kind of, we got to get here now kind of quest, but you, you just, you miss the depth. I mean, it's funny. I was just convinced a friend of mine

who loves television and watches tons of television to watch Avatar The Last Airbender for the first time. And I was like, hang tough, hang tough with the beginning of season one. It's like silly and childish, but like it gets better. And I'm just sort of like, you just got to hang with it. And like, these are 20 minute episodes, they're little bite-sized ones, but like,

seasons are long. And by the end of it, you just like really feel like you've, you've been with these people, you understand these people. Um, and they've spent time together. You feel that passage of time of them being together companions and all these different circumstances. So by the time they get to the Northern water tribe, like they are such a on the road for a long time family. You get this with like, you know, with like Lord of the Rings, because there's a difference between the fellowship, just like starting out and like,

everything that Sam and Frodo have fucking been through by the time that they get to Mount Doom. You know what I mean? It's just like time investment in, in the journey, time evolving sort of thing. So yeah, absolutely. And I think like the depth, but also then the whimsy and the hang and like, we're going to talk more about that also in an, in another category coming soon, but Aang is a character that,

who arrives at Kyoshi Island and wants to ride the elephant koi. Yes. And that is, like, important, right? Yeah. You know, there was that little... We get a couple... You know, Aang's like, is that so bad, right? Just, like, being a kid. And he and Kadara, even though they can bend, like, just splashing each other with water. You get a few moments where you see that these are just children with the weight of the world and the fate of mankind... of the four nations, like, on their shoulders. But not enough of it. And again...

I missed that here, but it really... Honestly, it was on my mind more, like, forecasting and thinking ahead. Because, you know, we won't get into the, like, plot particulars here, but you think of an episode like The Beach in Season 3, one of our favorites. Amber Island Players. Amber Island Players. That's the other thing I was going to say. Like...

The show works in part because we and the characters have those reprieves from like the unrelenting, unceasing stress and horror of everything else that's unfolding. Tales of Boston say, like, you know, yeah, just like being... Man, that one's just incredible. I love that one. You know, just like being kids in the world. And on the kid front, there's also what we're missing in that, you know, we don't actually have a category for these people, though they might tuck under the next one, but like,

A lot of the things you miss that are stripped out have to do with like Aang's crush on Katara and trying to impress her and like all of like, that's largely missing. I feel like that can just bring us into our number three, which is a Mallory winner. I finally am a winner. Yeah. Get us with your winner, Mallory. Young love. Yeah. Jo, young love and... Not you, Katara and Aang, but what else? Yeah.

Young love, okay, chemistry, electricity, that draw that a young person feels to another young person, great. I thought actually the season did genuinely like an exceptional job of portraying that in multiple different, with multiple different character pairings. But the bigger win here to me was the effectiveness of the new perspective the characters gained from each other inside of those connections, right?

Let's hit some of them. Sokka and Suki. I mean, if you made me pick my single favorite thing from the season, this would be in the consideration set, which I think is a shock because just because, again, when we're thinking of, and I don't know, maybe I'm spending too much time talking about what we were worried about heading into the season. Like, I was excited for the show. Yeah.

I guess it was in our moments primer where you mentioned some of the interviews and the concern that was bubbling in the fandom about the softening of the rough edges for Sokka and, you know, removing this like very heavy early season one focus of the Sokka sexism and what he has to work through on his own arc. And I was kind of like, if that's not here...

when he meets Suki like is this gonna work I thought these two were incredible together the moment where the

The... I just thought they were so charming. The moment where Suki comes in and Sokka is taking a little sponge bath and he's covering his chest and she's just looking him up and down and then later they're about to kiss and the bell rings and she says, the bell and he says, you

That was just incredible. The dancing and the training sequence, Suki removing her makeup, like, these were charged electric moments. And Sokka still had his false bravado, even though it wasn't weighed down with the, like, oh, but I doubt you. It said he was doubting himself. And so it actually ended up, I thought, being, like, quite effective for me. Not only was the thing I dreaded not, like, a detriment to me, I actually thought it really heightened this interaction. And...

They each teach each other something, right? This is crucial. Like, what does Sokka do for Suki? We hear her saying to her mother, like, early in the episode, it's not that I'm too young, I just, I haven't seen the world. And then she's telling him... She's giving, like, real... Now I know. Ariel, I want...

I want fives. Yeah. Yes. Wandering free. Wish I could be part of your world. Off Kyoshi Island for once in my life. Bringing the world to me. That's what she says. How romantic. Yeah. Maria Zhang, who plays Suki, is like in my top five for the season. I just thought she was wonderful. So good. And like,

Since we had a tough hang with a lot of the younger actors in this season, I want to highlight, like, I mean, I actually didn't look up her age. She's probably like in her twenties or whatever, but like, I thought she was a wonderful Suki, not just looking at the part, but just sort of like, and, and in contrast to like the Omashu,

Earth Kingdom Jambalaya, we're spending this whole episode on Kyoshi Island. So we are like digging in. So we get additive stuff for Suki, her relationship with her mom, this like indication that she's not seen the wider world. Yeah. What's the trade-off when you have this pride, but also you feel like so isolated and...

And deprived. Thinking about Suki's storyline going forward in the show, that's a great track delay for that character. Absolutely. Yeah. So I loved all of that.

I thought the fighting with the fan looked incredible. I thought all of that was great. My only note is that we didn't get Sokka in the Kyoshi makeup and dress. I know. Sad. Sad. It's just a great look. We were cheated. I love that episode. I had someone ask me... That was one of my favorite episodes of the season. Yeah, I had someone ask me... Because Avatar Kyoshi is one of my top tier favorite...

characters of all time. So like to get her, we get her like right away in the first episode, we see her and I was like, there she is! Avatar Kyoshi! And then to have her manifest, that was like an adaptive change I didn't mind at all. I thought that was like really cool. And like to watch

her mastery of the four elements. And so to give us something to like, look forward to when Aang figures out how to master all four elements and what that can look like in a fight. I just thought that was... That was awesome. Yeah, amazing. I liked to like, because obviously we get a lot more Gyatso in this season. And I was initially a little like, oh, are we going to get this instead of more time communing with prior avatars? But I ultimately ended up really liking that balance because Aang...

either learns and accepts or learns to cast aside a lesson from a prior incarnation of himself another avatar but also then is centering so fully what Gyatso has taught him over time and that idea that like you can teach yourself something but also you need to learn something from other people like that felt like a successfully executed balance that I and also like the avatar is not the only one who has something worth hearing I thought that was all really good too um

In terms of Suki and Sokka and the lesson going the other way, I really... I loved this aspect of belief and Sokka's belief in himself and Suki giving him this gift of saying, I think you're a real warrior. This is the...

I'm just the guy in the group who's regular. We talked about that line and what that moment means to us from the original series. And for them to have a conversation here about, well, like, we're not benders. And Suki to help him see the beauty in that. And like, yeah, you have to be better. But also, like, here's why it could be so cool if you are. And like, you can be. I thought it was awesome. I really liked the Sokka performance. I thought he was great.

Great. I thought he was better in the front half than he was in the back. I think the back half sort of lost interest in him a little bit. But I actually really like the UA stuff, so maybe I take that back. We'll get there momentarily. But yeah, I think of the main trio, if I had to write the quartet of kids, for me, it's Zuko, Sokka,

I don't know, tarring or just sort of like didn't hit the way that I wanted them to hit. So there we are.

Speaking of Katara, let's chat about Katara and Jet for a second here. No hot haroo in this season. Very sad. Deeply, deeply dismaying. But Jet is here and the flirtation is instant in the wagon. So Katara is, you know, taken with the Freedom Fighter camp and their way of life and this idea of like taking it to the man. And I thought the thing that was cool about this again in terms of like

It's not just about the yearning tendrils, right? It's like, what do you learn from somebody? Maybe even if things end badly was an important thing to highlight. So she has to, after the brief disagreement with Katara and Sokka, she has to concede, uh, my boyfriend is in fact the bomber. Oops. We all make mistakes. He did not put that in his profile. He's a little bit of a fixer-upper, but you know...

Whom's among us isn't? That scene where Jet is encouraging Katara to think about her mother in life, not just in death, I really liked. And then hearing Katara in the tunnels where, again, I don't know why they were there here, but let's focus for a second on what they're talking about when they are.

saying to Sokka basically like, yeah, he was the problem, but he still helped me see something important that I'm now carrying with me. And then I think most crucially, it wasn't just a...

look what the cute bad boy taught me moment. It's that Katara was able to pair that with belief in herself. It's not that she needed Jet, right? Something was unlocked and then it became about her. So like when he says, look at the power you have, that's because of me. And she said, that wasn't you. That was me. I thought that was one of the...

stronger Katara moments in a Katara season arc that on the whole in this series did not really work for me. Also, I thought that the Jet performance was fantastic. Fantastic. The Katara mis...

for the season. It's a bummer. It's really tough. Katara is very important for why I love the original series. It's really disappointing. Want to talk about June and Iroh for a second? On the Young Love group? I do. I mean, I want to slide June, smuggle her in here. It's at least a nice reverse because like,

Iroh perving on June is like the only Iroh note that in the original series that you're like, what's going on, my guy? This is a little weird. So the fact that the live action's like, let's flip it and June is like hardcore flirting with him, I thought was like really funny and cute. I'll let it go because your dad's kind of cute. Great stuff. But like the...

On that, like, cosplay front or, like, and whether you mean, like, literally in the look or in the actorly imitation, this was, like, the one case where I was like, this is just, like, such a stunning one-to-one translation. Arden Cho as June, like, just, you know, it's a minor character from the animated, but, like, looked perfect.

perfectly. Just like, I was like, there she is. That's June. And I don't need that to always be the case with live action. But in this case, it was an example of like an exact one-to-one translation that worked perfectly for me. I loved, I loved June. I thought she was wonderful. That's all. Speaking of areas where there were some tweaks. Yeah.

Let's talk about Sokka and Yue. What did you make, obviously, of the wig? We need to clear out for Wig Watch TM with Joanna Robinson TM, but also related to the wig, because the wig is so present in the rendering of this fox, this silver fox in the spirit realm. I loved the fox. I loved the fox thing because like, first of all, I loved, I liked the look of that

digital character, the fox, but also I like this idea of pulling Yue into the story earlier so it's not just like Sokka literally just met her. It's sort of like they have this mystical connection from earlier. I know you from the spirit realm. And so it just puts a little extra accelerant on their connection so that you do feel the poignancy of the loss a bit easier than you do a

I do in the animated version, but like, let's say in the M. Night Shyamalan version where I'm like, you literally just met her, Sokka. Like, what are we doing here? Amber Midthunder, who plays Yue, who was phenomenal in Prey and also in Legion, like is an actress I think is wonderful. And...

like of all the young actors, the actor that I am most familiar with having seen her in these other things. And I thought she was wonderful working her ass off against one of the worst wigs I've ever seen in all of time and space. I thought of you immediately. Yeah. Immediately. I thought of you when Momo got crushed. You thought of me when you saw that crispy, crunchity wig.

It was the moment. It's like, we might need a side pod just on this wig. This was the moment when I was like, in contrast to the June thing, I was like, how did any of you professional people look at that animated wig and say, let's recreate it strand for strand, beat for beat. No one will notice that it looks insane. How did you put it on Amber's head and say, maybe not that. So like, I...

It is more cartoon accurate. It is quite cartoon accurate. But Yue's look is... But should it be? No, it should not. Yue's look is the most... Other than Jet, who is... Jet and his cohort are, like, drawn anime style in a... Let's be... Like, people call Avatar anime. It's not anime. But Jet is drawn in anime style. And then Yue is kind of drawn in anime style. Very, like, Sailor Moon. Like...

Her hair is ridiculous. It looks great in animation. It should never have been attempted in a live action show. It's just absolutely reprehensible. And the fact that Amber Midthunder was able to make Yue like

and warm and human and charming and compelling underneath that abomination is just a further testament to her. She's wonderful. But the wig has got to be. Got to go. Astounding. Astounding. Everything else with you, great though. I love this little Cloudberry...

Yeah. Kitchen chat. Looks delicious also. They look delicious. Imagine being able to just instantly make your own iced dessert because you're a waterbender. Seems great. But I loved Sokka nervously flubbing his way through this interaction. The just a girl and ordinary moments. Very cute. On this young love opening up new perspective front, I think the UA moments...

Did every line work? No, I think like he's not the boy of my dreams was pretty tough. Also,

I missed asshole Han. I was like, do we need to soften Han into the sweetest angel? Also, RIP to Han and to that sweet little trainee who was like, Master Katara, I'm here to help. And then she was like, let me know if you see a fireball coming, even though they're actively engaged in war and the fireballs are everywhere. And then she just peaced out and that kid died. Died.

Brutal. 100%. Brutal. Good job, Master Guitar. Brutal. Yue and Sokka talking about her connection to the spirit world. And Sokka saying...

So you pop over there just for fun and he's like baffled, right? Because he just had this immensely traumatic experience in the fog. And she's like, wouldn't you? It's magical. Like when you meet somebody in your life who makes you think about something in a different way, that's a beautiful thing. It's awesome. And to capture that. It's like when I met you and you just changed my life, right? Yeah.

I would love to go into the spirit world with you, Joe. That would be beautiful. So that was just all. And like, Ko would take my face like, yeah, I'm not interested in interacting with Ko. I will say that. It's a pass for me personally, and it sounds like for you as well. It's worth the risk to be a live moment with Yue and Sokka. I just thought it was great. And like one of the more effectively rendered like

pretty on-the-nose lines that Yue somehow made this, like, perfectly magical little kernel of wisdom and insight about the human experience. So they were great. I think that Sokka, on the non, like, lust and love front, but just more of, like, a friendship or mentorship front, which I'll smuggle into this category, even though, again, this is a very different kind of relationship, I did really like, even though I'm like, why are Tao and his father here in Omashu just...

confounded by it. I really liked the conversations between the Mechanist and Sokka, and I thought that this focus on you've got Tao and Aang, and then Katara and Jet and Sokka and Sai, and everybody's having their conversation basically about a parent and a child and legacy and what you inherit and carry and then the own path that you forge. And the Mechanist saying to Sokka, like,

you're an engineer. It's not always easy to find your path in life, but when you find it, you must embrace it. And saying that to him, not as like a mandate or a challenge or a threat, but like as an opportunity, as an invitation, an invitation to be who you are, I thought was great. And like, I wish we had had more moments like that in the series because it's part of the real beauty and heart of the show.

I didn't miss Aang and Katara as a romantic focus of the season, I'll say. I don't miss it, but I'm like, are we not endgaming it then? Like, okay. I don't know. Just like Aang and Katara, they need to do... If they're going to do a season two, which I'm sure they are, we need to do some work on figuring out how to... Not only are those kids like, you know...

And, and Azula Mae and Ty Lee, like, are you kidding me? Like not only are those kids like not really the best at reading their material. So like could use some acting help, which is available to them and they can have it. Um, the writing for Tara is just, this was the, I think the biggest absolutely note on the season and absolutely appalling to me that this is who they think. I don't understand what happened there with the material Katara got. It's, it's,

upsetting yeah it's very strange mischaracterization of who that person is so um which brings us to my final loser brings us nicely to yeah a loser that i'm calling t-o-n-e tone this is the big note i have overarching note for the whole season eight episodes which is the tone is just

off it's just wrong and i actually don't think we need to linger too long here because we've just put a lot of bricks in place for why mischaracterization lack of side quests um rushing certain things um all that sort of stuff and and the the ramped up uh action which works in a lot of ways but when you when it's out of balance with everything else then it doesn't

feel like Avatar to me most of the time. So serious, so deadly serious that you miss the lightness, the breathers, the joy, the thirst for life. This isn't an adventure. This is a road movie show story. This is like, you know, you

You have to be joyously celebrating this incredible world that Brian and Mike built in this Avatar universe. It's so inventive. It's so beautiful. Of course, it's like lifting from a million different melange of Asian cultures, but like putting it all together in a really unforgettable way.

just like bold and captivating. And I want to go to their kind of way. And I don't get this just like get sort of dulled down around the edges into like so many Netflix, young adult fantasy stories that we've seen that just sort of feel interchangeable. It doesn't, it just doesn't. Yeah. It just, it's just a miss on the tone for me. And, and like,

And Anne, again, just makes you really better appreciate how hard it was to capture what they captured in the original and how the original series can be so silly, sometimes even too silly, like, you know, all this sort of stuff. And then, like, absolutely rip your guts out, make you cry, make you think about things spiritually and emotionally and, like, what is family and who am I and what is my purpose and all this sort of stuff. Like, I...

I guess the biggest triumph of this show is that it made me so much appreciate how wonderful, which I never thought I could appreciate more, how wonderful the three seasons of the Perfect TV series, plus I love Korra as well, plus all of Korra. And they'll always be there for me. So, you know. I could not agree more. This is... Man, where's our Otter Penguin sled race? You know? Like...

When there's a little joking and I'm using the word joking pretty liberally, I think exchange at the end about how Sokka's stomach is in his brain. I'm kind of like, but this wasn't a

part of the character and the season, the fact that this is like inescapable, no matter the level of urgent peril that they are in, is like the specific balancing act and magic of the story. Cabbage Guy is kind of an interesting example of this to me in the season because like Cabbage Guy's there. He has to be. Secret tunnel's there. Secret tunnel's there. Like, but they almost felt

Cabbage Guy felt like, okay, if we don't have Cabbage Guy here, there will be an active revolt. But so he feels more like a wink to us and an Easter egg than a cabbagey thread tracing through.

the shoots of Omashu and the bridges and tunnels and connective tissue of the story. Like, Cabbage Guy is such a sensation from the original series, not because it's a shock when he suddenly appears and laments the destruction of his cabbages. It's because it's exactly the kind of thing that you expect to see in every frame, even though you don't totally know or understand why. The surprise becomes the expected surprise

And that is the magic of the show. So for that to be absent here is palpable and sad. But it does bring us our final winner of the day. Yes. Which is, in addition to your right and beautiful point about the original series being a winner again, this is connected, Avatar Studios. Because the OG creators, Brian and Mike, who we've mentioned a few times, who left, as you noted, this adaptation, Paramount,

Nickelodeon parent company back. Avatar Studios formed and the Slate folks are

It is as full as Appa's saddle. Thrilling. There is so much animated goodness coming our way. Now, again, to circle back to the very beginning of the pod, if this is your first experience with the Avatar world, this is just purely good news for you, right? You can go watch the original series if you want. You can watch Korra. We would highly encourage it.

If you're not going to do that, that's okay. These new movies and series will still be there for you soon. October 2025, the slate begins. We are getting movies and shows, Joe. We'll run through them in a second.

If you're an obsessive loyalist to the original series and this Netflix show did not work for you, then again, this is great and welcome news because there is this balm on the horizon. There is the healing power of the waterbending awaiting us. We will be whole. The women of the Northern Water Tribe are here to heal you. They're here to heal us. Yeah.

Joe, you want to run us through the impending slate? And we should say, if anybody doesn't want to know what the future slate is, because hearing, oh, Character X has a movie might tell you a future plot point about Character X, this is a good time to bounce. Okay, this is... I did my best to hunt down the most recent plot

but it's all a little nebulous. There's nothing like on the official Avatar Studios website. There's like some information from Paramount. So this is the best we know to date is the original. And I, some of it I think was screwed up by, you know, the writer's strike and all this other stuff like that. But we're, we're in theory supposed to get a TV show and a movie every single year.

Like, what? A bounty. Feasting. An embarrassment of riches. So, as Mel already mentioned, the one date we do, the firmest date we have is October 10th, seven days after my birthday, 2025. We get the adult Aang gang movie, which is Aang...

and Katara and Zuko and Sokka and Toph and hopefully Suki, though she's never in the, you know, the art for this, but bring Suki along. What is she doing? Uh, Grown Up Adventures of Aang and Ko. I'm,

so excited for this. This is going to be in theater. So we get to go to the cinema to experience this. And I could not be more excited. What will the novelty popcorn bucket look like? I don't know. Will it be like a furry little oppa that we get to like cuddle and snack from? Like, what will it be? I don't know.

It should probably be Momo like holding the popcorn for us because he's such a, he's such a foodie. He's such a culinary enthusiast. Momo loves a snack. It's true. So, so excited for that. Also, so the first TV series we're getting is a new Avatar series. And as you know, the Avatar cycle, you know, goes through the elements. So it was fire before it was Aang. Aang is air. Uh, Korra was water. We're getting an Earthbender Avatar series. Uh,

said to take place approximately 100 years after Korra.

I don't understand this sentence, which would be said in the Avatar Universe equivalent of modern day. I don't know what that means. Maybe because they're thinking about the fact that Korra had elements of the 1920s in it. So maybe 100 years later brings us to the 2020s. I can kind of see that thought. You know what I mean? But I don't think we necessarily need to worry about present day or not. We're getting an Earthbender, an Earth Avatar. And given how much I love Kyoshi, I am...

stoked for this. I love Bolin. I love an Earthbender. I love Bolin. Bolin? I love Bolin. Are you kidding me? So, an Earth Avatar series. That, allegedly, in 2025. We'll see if that timing plays out. 2026! To your hats and glasses. Because...

We're getting in theaters once again a Fire Lord Zuko movie. Overwhelming. It's different from the adult Aang gang movie. This is focused on Fire Lord Zuko. Dante Basco, I believe, and it's not been like officially confirmed, but he's doing like an official podcast with them currently. So like...

why wouldn't you if you've got him hire Dante Basco back as the voice of adult Zuko and this is like this is listed as their second film so like 2026 is when we think this is going to come out in the running for number one pick if we ever do like hype draft for the decade the Fire Lord Zuko movie what if the Fire Lord Zuko movie is about a secret affair between Katara and Zuko then it will be the best film ever made

The Zutara movie. Okay. And then last but not least, we don't have any dates for any of these, but we've got two unknown spinoff shows that they've sort of announced are in the works and we don't know what they are. There's the Legacy of Yangchen novelization that people are wondering if they want to do about the previous airbending series.

um, Avatar, if there's going to be something about that. Um, I've always wanted a, a more stories about Juan, the first Avatar. Steven Yen voices him in a wonderful two-parter in Legends of Korra. Just,

incredible television the one origin story so I would love to get a full I've always wanted a full one season or show so that would be my wish do you have any do you want like a all Momo all the time show like what what adventures of Momo I mean yeah

Who says no? Sign me up immediately. True who says no territory. I think all of this sounds exciting and wonderful to be back in the animated world, to be with the original creators, but also, like, I think to scratch the itch that some people are really feeling right now of, like...

Should this have been a new story? Not a different spin on a story we've already seen? Like, to know that we'll be going into different parts of the timeline with characters we're already deeply attached to and invested in and meet new characters entirely is just very appealing. And also, is this a story that just belongs in animation just because of the, like, fantastical nature of this world? I mean, we believe in live-action fantasy deeply, obviously. We talk about it all the time on this podcast. But, like, when watching, especially...

I would say both of them, but like really, especially Cora, some of the animation in that show, it just will like absolutely take your breath away. It's,

So the prospect of more art from Brian and for Brian and Mike to be like, no, this is not what we want to do. Now we're in charge of something called avatar studios and we get to decide what our world that we created looked like. Last but not least TBD don't have a date on it. Untitled avatar, Kiyoshi film. It was supposed to be 2024. It's now been pushed off TBD, but I need it now or not.

Just after now is when I need the Avatar Kiyoshi film. So yeah, we're, the winner of this is the fact that we've got many more stories to come in this universe, a universe we love. And even if like Netflix season two and season three, if they get to make it of the show is not quite scratching that itch. We do have other things coming that well. So that is how we were choosing to end this episode on a winning upbeat for a universe that we love.

Miley Rubin, thank you so much for joining me today on this journey. Jewel of my heart. Jewel of my heart. That's you. That's you. We will be back next week with Double Dune. Double dose of Dune. Yes. I can't wait to pot about Dune Part 2 with you. Can't wait. We fucking love this movie. Dune 2. Unbelievable. The hype is unbelievable. Believe all of the hype.

And see this on the biggest, loudest screen you can find. Like, please. I'm rarely a see it on the biggest screen person as Joe knows, but even I, even I have to say that this time. There's like, there's some incredible. Okay. We'll talk about more next week, but I'm so excited for him to see it. And I'm so excited to talk about it. So come back and listen to us do that. Midnight boys. They've got their double dune thing going on. Yeah.

follow us on the pod, follow us on social. Thank you so much to Carl's Chiriboga for his work on this. This thank you to Jimmy dinner on for his immaculate social work, always including taking the selfie with the popcorn buckets last night at the theater. And thank you to our dinner. Paul, uh, just has, can I say that my wife say he just had his bachelor party weekend, but things are personal information about our Juna that he didn't say. I could say on the podcast, the bachelor party weekend, our Juna and, uh,

We'll see you all soon. Bye.