The 2024 Winter Mailbag
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Did Don Draper really buy the world a Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die? Or just order more onion rings? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and The Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the Prestige TV feed, on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Greetings, and welcome to House of Art.

A Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to Olympus and Arrakis and the Fire Nation, but also to House of R's new-ish podcast feed. March 2024, we're going to stop calling it a new feed. Okay. That's the date. Promises, promises. We'll see. We'll see how we're feeling at the time. As always.

Joining me today, delivered via Poseidon Pearl, it's my house of our permanent title, co-host, New York Times bestselling author of MCU, The Reign of Marvel Studios, Joanna Robinson. This is what I mean by promises, promises. You promised me you would stop doing that intro and yet here we are. It's February. One more time.

One more time. You sound so beautiful to my ears, Mallory, because you're coming in through a different mic system and it's just like honeyed tones to my ear. I'm so glad. I'm so glad to hear it. That's how I feel every time I'm with you. Oh, P.S. Also. What's up, bad babies? Bad baby. I'm so excited for today's episode.

We love a mailbag and it's winter mailbag time. 2024 winter mailbag. Let's make it seasonal. You know, hold us to nothing. But today it's seasonal. Hold us to nothing ever, including the understanding of what the seasons actually are. As we've never been bound by the calendar. No, you know, one of the real lessons I think from, from the Percy Jackson experience we just shared is the solstice happens, you know, and then you move forward anyway. Will there be consequences? Who's to say?

Joe, we are going to get to the wonderful mailbag questions that we have today shortly. Thank you to everyone, as always, who submitted. Before we dive into the outpost, some quick programming reminders over on The Ringerverse. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew, pew, will be with you on Wednesday for an annual tradition.

The Black Heroes of Fandom Draft Volume 3. Cannot wait for that. That's going to be an incredible episode. It always is. Then, on Friday on The Ringiverse, the Button Mash crew will be back to talk Suicide Squad, Kill the Justice League, and Halo Season 2, Episodes 1 and 2. So that's a meaty Button Mash. And then we will be back with you here on House of R on Friday as well for another Tropes course. We love a Tropes course. We are still in...

That beautiful Percy bubble and zone. Afterglow, yeah. We had so much fun. Yeah. We want to linger a little longer under the sea with the sun of the sea god. And so we're doing Golden Trios.

Cannot wait for that. I've done some prelim research and it has been very fruitful. We will have a lot to discuss. I'm very excited. We were thinking of doing golden trios slash fellowships. From the research that I've done so far, fellowships is going to have to be its own thing. There's too much to talk about under the trio umbrella. So that is where you and Steve and I, we make our own golden trio. That's where we shall stay. Love it. Also love to know we have future material for future pods. It's all working out. I love that. It's great.

Joanna, if people have thoughts on golden trios, if people have other questions outside of the ones that we read today on this year, 2024 Winter Mailbag, how can they reach us? And in general, how can they follow along? What a brilliant question. The first of many, I'm sure, brilliant questions that we will experience in the Mailbag episode today. This one...

I have a couple things to say to you. First of all, hobbsanddragons.gmail.com. Obviously, all your golden trio thoughts. Also, next week, we are doing a Valentine's Day special episode. We don't know yet. You'll be surprised to find out exactly what that shall entail. However, if you have prompts, ideas, questions, comments, concerns you want to send to hobbsanddragons.gmail.com to help us figure out what Valentine's Day content you most want,

In addition to, I don't know. This is where the people demand a full podcast length edition of Fuck Mary Moondore. This is where the demands enter. We're going to do it of healthy or to use a favorite Mallory adjective, a meaty Fuck Mary Moondore game. But what else shall we explore? Let's find out together. Phrasing all.

all down the episode. Okay. My goodness. So that's one thing. Another thing. Love a meaty fuck Mary Moondore. You're the one. You've used meaty. Okay. Thank you, Steve. Love it. You've used meaty a couple times the last few episodes I've been tracking it. It's been sort of slowly growing notoriety in your arsenal. Okay. Growing. Follow the pod. Slowly. A slow grower. Follow the pod. Bad baby.

Follow the ringer verse. Yep. Oh, Mallory's appearances on the rewatchables. Follow the watch. Follow the prestige TV. Follow everything on your podcast catcher of choice. Spotify or wherever. Who's to say? Also follow us on social, on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, on TikTok. Jomie is just doing everything he can to keep you on top of all the content that's coming your way. And that I believe is all I have to say about that. Mallory.

Fantastic. Sign it with your pickle. Thank you for that. Sign it with your pickle. Always. Last programming reminder is usually the spoiler warning. It's a friendly neighborhood one. We don't really have one today. You know, you will hear in each question the subject of the question and thus you will know what we're about to talk about.

If you don't want to hear us talk about that given thing, you can hit fast forward a couple times. But of course, as always, we're not going to be getting into plot details from the future because we don't know them. We're going to maybe talk about some of our universes that we love to spend time in. We'll see how it goes. Not much of a spoiler repot today. Should we get into it? Let's do it. I'm so excited. Our first question comes from Wayne. Huge longtime fan of both your work.

Thanks, Wayne. Hey, man. Thanks, Wayne. Thanks so much, Wayne. So happy to have an excuse to reach out for my question. I'd like to know what narrative conceits does three body problem need to land in your opinion to be a successful TV adaptation?

Distant and converging timelines, VR allegory, medical drama, or something else entirely. Joanna, three-body problem. It's on the people's mind. It is nearing. It is looming. It is upon us in March. What does three-body problem need to get right to work? Tell us. Let me just say a couple things. Okay. Mallory and I have not yet read the books upon which this TV series is based, however we plan to.

And in order to keep us honest about that, not that we're ever dishonest about our reading habits, not that we ever cram them in the weekend before the thing drops, but to keep us on pace, we are currently planning to do book club episodes around Three-Body Problem, the first book at least.

in mid-March, like March 12th and March 19th is what we're eyeing for two book club episodes. So we'll talk more about some books to read to keep track with us this year in our coverage. That's another question on the horizon. But just so you know, we haven't read the books yet. So when we saw this question, it's like, how can we answer this not having read the books? I did some light, spoiler-free Googling. And here are some things I know. This is a sprawling cast.

And this is a show that is being co-run by Weiss and Benioff, Make Game of Thrones. And so if there's one thing they know how to do... Are we out of a lot? If there's one thing they know how to do, it's going to...

invested in a sprawling cast. But also what I've heard that they've done is they have conflated several characters and also created a stronger connective tissue, a familiarity between some of these characters to sort of ease us into this massive sprawling narrative. And it reminds me of the Thrones pilot and the way that they thought of that show as like, you know, two old friends, you

meet for dinner and bring and their families meet each other. You know what I mean? Like keep it really local and really concentrated. So that's one thing. The other thing that we, you and I both heard from people who have read the books who love the books, but also have issued some gentle cautionary language around the dense mathematical aspects of this story. Something that could be intimidating and a barrier of entry to some people have, you know,

concerns about that in terms of I want everyone to, we always want everything to be great. We always want everyone to be enjoying it together. That is our favorite thing to do always, obviously. And I worry about the sci-fi nature being a little too dense and being a barrier for people. So I hope that they're able to translate those problems. I was reading a bit about the recent Chinese adaptations. There's like a live action and animated adaptation of the book

and sort of what those adaptations got right and got wrong. And I think the question of the sort of techno babble, if you prefer, however you want to call it, being a sort of dense issue there is I think something that they really want to make sure that they get right. So we're telling a story that is once imaginative and otherworldly and all of that, but also human and relatable and has a beating heart that we can all get invested in. I would say that's the...

I don't know if that's too vague, but that's sort of, I think, the main mandate for the show. Unsurprisingly, we're in a very similar place here, thinking about what awaits and what needs to happen here. The Benioff and Weiss factor...

is so crucial here because obviously we all have, I think a lot of lingering trauma bondages intact and strong from the end of Thrones, but yeah, the beginning of Thrones. Yes. Building and taking us into a world where that depth of shared history was like so readily apparent to us that,

We are standing there with Robert and Ned in front of Lyanna's crypt, and we can feel the depth of what has passed between them in an instant. It is a gift that they have as creators and world builders. And so Thrones, A Song of Ice and Fire, and the three-body universe are very different stories, but a thing that they share is this...

this scope. Like we all talk all the time in our Thrones and Dune and Foundation and Three-Body Now era of adaptations about the, our buddy Ben Lindbergh has written some great pieces on TheRinger.com. What a great website about this, about the idea of like, quote unquote, unadaptable IP and how this is like no longer a blocker to getting things made. But,

And you think about the skill and deftness that Benioff and Weiss have to bring us in and make us care and clarify the stakes, but then grip us with characters, with human beings, and how it feels like, again, with your caveat issued about our level of familiarity with the particulars of the story, it feels like that will be an essential thing here where this balance of

the plot mechanic, the actual structure and lore and mythology of the sci-fi aspects of the story, the question of how you root and anchor something that spans this many locations and places. There was an interesting stretch in the Hollywood Reporter feature a couple weeks ago about, like, none of the locations are going to stick around. You're here, then you're here, then you're here, then you're here. You're constantly on the move, right? You're going across these eons. Right.

as this existential threat looms. And so we have to be invested in the driver of that plot. But the way to get us to care is by establishing the relationships among the people. And so the question of like humanity uniting or warring is,

With itself in the face of this existential threat is such an interesting thing. Like, can people unite and come together when the doom is on the horizon and is apparent? Of course, human nature, the answer is no. So then what does that look like and what form does it take and who do we get attached to and how? That's, I think, the thing that they have to nail immediately so that we're invested in.

the Netflix binge of it all is like the other variable here because on the one hand, it's this like helpful, we talked about this a little bit in our hype draft episode, right? On the one hand, it's a little bit of a cheat code where you don't necessarily need to stop and wonder and think and work through whatever stumping you, you move on. The mystery carries you, the plot propels you, but a show like this, the density, the meatiness, it's,

Now every time I say it, I'm going to know I'm saying it. Would I have to assume really benefit from the time and space to breathe and think and reflect and process and parse, right? I just hope that the people at home listening could hear this.

The eye contact you just made with me, the thrilling eye contact you just made with me over Zoom when you lent into your mic and said meatiness. Yeah, I agree with all that. I think the binge has me worried. I think some of the sci-fi elements...

have me worried in that hearing from some people about how they felt about Foundation. Foundation was by no means an unpopular show, but it didn't break wide the way that Shirley Apple hoped that it would. And I think some of that bouncing around in time and trying to keep a grasp on all the various plot mechanics and concepts. I would describe that show that I broadly like as

just occasionally impenetrable. Right. And we want... What do we want? Full penetration. So... You're being sober. Exactly. So...

So, again, I've heard some... Old, smooth penetration. I've heard some optimistic things in terms of that, like, conflation of characters, adding some, you know, personal history to connect people. That has made me optimistic. And I should say that...

Yeah, I mean, I'm more excited in the last couple weeks as like people have started to see episodes, all this sort of stuff like that. I'm hyped. Than I have been. I was very worried before. Now I'm slightly less worried. And it is good to remind myself that.

That no matter how you feel about them, Weiss and Benioff have proven themselves to be very good at adapting things. Absolutely. And guess what? When they're making shit up, less good. They know how the story's supposed to end. Exactly. The books are done. Huge news, folks. We keep our feet on the ground and our connection to the source material. Totally. We don't lose the plot, then we can have a great time together. I'm hopeful. I'm really optimistic about this. Also, we don't like...

Jonathan Pryce is a cult leader, Joe. When do we say no? Come on. Benedict Wong doing literally anything. Wongers himself. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. I'm excited for this. Excited to read the books. Excited to talk about them together, pod about them together. Excited to dive into the show. What a time. A new world for us. So yeah, if folks want to get a jumpstart, first book, Three-Body Problem.

We're going to do some book clubbing about it. Join us in the club. And by the club, I mean book club. So there you go. That was a wild, wild moment just now. It really was. We really all experienced it together as a golden trio. Oh boy. Bad babies. You heard Joe. Join us in the club.

Steve didn't even give me the benefit of like a sound bite to cover. Joanna Robinson, February 6th, 2024. Join us into club. You're being so brave. All right. Should we go to question number two? Yeah, let's do it. How else can I possibly top into the club? Oh boy. Question number two. Yeah. Eric. The cause. I love the cause. Yeah. Love a cause. So. Yeah. With all of the adaptations going on,

Do either of you have a soft spot for a decent movie, but an awful adaptation? Let the record state, Joanna, that awful is in all caps. Oh, okay. I am now resuming Eric's question. Thank you. I'm a sucker for Ready Player One. The movie is serviceable and enjoyable, but boy, oh boy, is it a bad adaptation of the book and its characters. The next sentence is not related to the question, but it is important to share with the bad babies who are listening to this year, 2024, winter mailbag. As a New Englander,

There is only one type of apple that matters, and that's an apple cider donut. Joe, I fucking love apple cider donuts. Going apple picking at the Syracuse, New York orchards.

Fill in a bag with apples and then going and getting a fresh dozen of apple cider donuts was a heavenly experience. I have like such a strong sense memory of that. My one of my best pals, Taylor, who still lives up in the area, the first couple of years out of college would overnight me a box from one of our favorite orchards for my birthday every year. She's a great one. Yeah. Yeah.

I have never had an apple cider donut. What? Not even into club? They don't serve apple cider donuts into club. I don't know when the last time you attended to club was, but they don't serve apple cider donuts there. Oh my, okay. We've got to get you an apple cider donut. And we have to do it in the fall. It has, it's got to be a fall experience. It has to be. There's no good apple picking. So we need to make our way to central New York or New England in fall.

the fall okay perhaps the pacific northwest we could probably do there's some apple picking up here i would i have also experienced apple products around the finger lakes in new york and that is just like on a different level altogether so i'm not claiming it's the same but um yeah i've never i don't love a donut personally um so i like a what yeah sorry wait

I don't like donuts very much. Sorry to tell you that. A hot cake donut? No, absolutely not. I like a hot...

Donut hole? A munchkin? A fritter? A bear claw? Oh, I really don't like Dunkin' at all. I like a hot fresh glazed from Dunkin'. Oh, from Krispy Kreme. Hot fresh glazed from Krispy Kreme, yes. Delicious. And then there used to be a place in Oakland called Donut Dollies where she made, yes, yeast donuts that were like filled with

with like incredible custards. Those are really good. They were like hot and fresh and local and all sorts of stuff like that. But she closed and I haven't had a donut since she closed, which was years ago. So yeah, I don't know. There's just never been. And a cold donut. I feel like a cold donut is so dense and so sweet. I just, it's not for me personally. Wow.

I don't know why you're surprised by this. Because at this point, don't you know that extremely sweet things aren't really my jam? And is that not exactly what a donut is? In part because of the presence occasionally of jam and your absolute aversion to... Is this going to be the last time we talk about my aversion to jam and or jelly? No, it's not.

Oh, God. Wow. It's going to be a... Today's going to be a journey. I love a donut. Won't surprise you here that I love a donut. It has been a day and a half since my last donut, and it'll probably only be a day and a half until my next donut. I rarely go more than a handful of days without a donut if I could help it. Honestly, it's amazing I'm alive, but I just fucking love a donut. I routinely might be overstating it, but we'll...

Every now and then, we'll just order a dozen donuts, six each. Just, you know, have some snacks around. I love a maple bar. I've really, really loved exploring. That's the worst one. Oh, I love a maple bar. Because it makes you, you know that feeling when your teeth hurt from the sugar? No. Isn't that how you know you're alive? That's how I know I'm alive. How are we doing on the doctor's appointments resolution for this year, Mallory? I'll follow. TBD?

I'll follow up. Right around when we stop saying that House of R is a newish podcast feed. I'll let you know. I'll check back in in March then. Boy. Okay. Fascinating aside on the donuts, I've learned a lot as always. What would you like to tell us about a decent movie? Oh, I would like to state for the record that I didn't pick a movie. I picked a show. Just throwing that out there. A decent movie slash show that is an awful, all caps, adaptation of the source material. What do you got? I mean, awful...

It's so subjective. I guess I went with like unfaithful, like wildly unfaithful. Yeah. I would say decent and awful as operative words here. You can kind of. I have three movies that I really like slash love that have almost nothing to do with their source material besides sharing the same name. Okay. Tell me. One would be the adaptation of Neil Gaiman's book Stardust.

which has like nothing, almost nothing to do with that book. Yeah. It's like, not almost nothing, but it's like a 50% different than the book, but I really like it. I think it's delightful and a wonderful time at the cinema, Stardust. It will not surprise anyone.

Stephen King fans to hear that a Stanley Kubrick film is on here, but it's not a Stephen King book. It's The Thin Red Line. Basically, Stanley Kubrick's like, what source material? Anytime that he is given a book to adapt, he's like, hmm, a vague guideline to sort of shoot for. And one of my favorite things about Thin Red Line, which is one of my favorite war movies, it's a lot of shots of gently waving grass, but like, it...

One of my favorite stories about that movie is that the actors who thought they were the lead of that movie wound up being largely cut out of that movie. And he's like, what if it's...

He just makes his movies in the edit. So he cannot possibly adapt a book because he's just making up the movie as he goes. And so there's all these quotes from actors who are so disgruntled that they were cut out of the movies that they thought they were the leads in. In Thin Red Line, it's mostly Adrian Brody who went to the movie theater and he was like, I'm sorry, am I not the lead character in this movie anymore? Okay. Oh, man. Last but not least, one of my favorite Stevie Spielberg movies of all time, Minority Report.

Does not have a lot to do. But that is based on a...

what we call it a novella or a short story. I I'm novella. Um, and novellas are some of my favorite things that people adapt because there's just enough room for someone to play around in it. And, or if you're keeping things short, novellas are just such a smart source material to mine. And I think more people should do it. We say after just talking about three body problem of like dense and sprawling narrative adaptation that we're excited for. Well,

Mallory, what's your show? What's your show? Those are good picks. I actually have trouble with this question. I think in part because typically if I have an attachment to the source material, see the movie or show, think it's a poor adaptation, it's very difficult for me to then make my way to enjoying it. Though I can get there. Like, I...

Honestly, this was my experience from Goblet on with not all but many of the Harry movies where... I was wondering if you were going to pick Potter, honestly. I was really tempted to pick Goblet or Prince, which were the two that I had because those are my two favorite books in the series and the movies I just was like...

First of all, Goblet was the first time that I had seen a movie after reading the books. Because I read all... I caught on after Ask a Man. Saw Ask a Man in the theater, drove to the bookstore, read the first five which were out at that time. So Goblet was my first time seeing a film where I had not only an attachment to the book, but that was really a transformative reading experience for me, reading Goblet for the first time. This might come up again later today in another question that we got. And I was just like...

We'd be here for six hours if I went through the list of things, right? But like they did what with Marty Crouch Jr., et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It was like painful for me. And then when I knew what the movie was and went back the next day to see it, I was like, this is a pretty fun movie, right? Et cetera. So that was typically my experience with the adaptations from there.

But I ended up... That's what a lot of Potter fans... And I would consider myself a Potter fan, but I love the Half-Blood Prince movie. This is a divide for us. Prince is a sin to me. Yeah, I love that movie. I couldn't get there with Prince. But I have heard from a lot of people who are slightly different to you in that they're like, I can see...

how that movie works and it's a terrible adaptation of a book I love. And I'm like, yeah. The Prince is number one on my list of the adaptation and the choices in adapting that cherished book. That's the hardest one for me to try to make my way to. But this is just a pretty good film if you sit down to watch it. I'm like, but would Harry just stand there and watch? They weren't

No. Anyway, again, we don't have time for all that today. Here's what I ended up picking instead. That could just be my answer. I went with The Passage because I, and again, like decent, I felt like decent was, that's the extent I could go to for like speaking about the show in a vacuum. I would not say that was a, certainly would not say that was a great show. I don't even think I'd say it was a good show. But I think if you watched The Passage, the 10 episode 2019 episode,

Fox adaptation without any attachment to or familiarity of the source material, the Justin Cronin trilogy. Yeah. You'd be like, interesting. Curious to see where this goes and what they're doing. Yeah. What's up with Amy? Well, intrigued by this project, Noah. If you have read the past, I love those books. I love them. Yeah.

And I consider the reason I picked this is it's twofold. One, it's the actual adaptive choices inside of the thing itself, which I think almost completely missed the point and the tone in particular of the books. The fact that this was a 10 episode Fox television series, like,

I remember being so baffled by this at the time. This like has to be done at some point again as a prestige streaming era, like HBO or maybe Apple, like in the Apple genre boom. I could see this as a great gritty,

unrelentingly grim dystopian tale like a 42 minute network TV it was not gonna it just was not gonna work I'm pained by this still because I think these books deserve an adaptation that's worthy of the execution inside of this this really excellent tale so that's that's my pick that's a great answer

I never watched past the first episode of that show because I just didn't think they got it and it didn't seem worth it. But I'm with you on the books. I just those are phenomenal books. Yeah. They're great. Question number three. Yeah. This one's from Jake. See, you don't usually do this, but it's just like it just sort of like gives you a little.

I love the car. A frisson of excitement. I can also just hear better with the new setup. So it's like, there's that car. Loud and clear. Loud and clear. Jake says, would you ever consider doing a rewatch of

for Avatar The Last Airbender slash Korra the way you did for Doctor Who. With the new Avatar The Last Airbender content coming from Paramount Plus and the OG creators, as well as the Netflix live-action adaptation, do you intend to cover any of this when it drops? Side note, will you be considering Aang, Katara, and Sokka as part of your golden trio analysis? Very excited to hear that part as well. Right.

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You've lost all sense with this new mic setup. Okay. A resounding yes to will there be Avatar The Last Airbender discussion in the Golden Trio Trove's course on Friday. Aang, Katara, and Sokka are a clear trio, but there's actually like a number of ways in which you could craft the trio of characters across. I have like a

a preliminary list of candidates, which we will narrow down because we don't need to be here all day on Friday, but there's like five different possibilities for Avatar. We'll talk about at least some of them on Friday. And then...

I don't know if it's illegal to do this on a different podcast. I'll just balance it by a Mallory plug and then a Joanna plug. Mallory, if you want to hear Mallory talk more about why The Half-Blood Prince is an incorrect adaptation of a great book, you should listen to Benchmo and Harry Potter if you haven't. There are hours and hours and hours of Mallory talking about Potter. You should listen to that. If you want hours and hours and hours of me talking about Avatar the Last Airbender and Korra, there's a podcast called Republic City Dispatch that I did for years. So I

I did the Korra episodes, but that is, um, like with Matt Patches, Dave Gonzalez and Devinder Hardwar. And that's, that was a really, that was like early in my podcasting career. So you'll hear like baby voice, Joanna covering, uh, that stuff if you want to. But if you don't,

If you don't want to do any of that, if you don't want to do any of that, guess what? Yes, of course. We're covering Avatar The Last Airbender here in the house of our feed. We are we're going to do at least a couple episodes, one looking sort of back and then one covering the Netflix drop.

And then if we find there's more to cover, maybe we'll expand from there. But that's sort of our current... It's tough with a Netflix binge drop to sort of draw it out. So that's... There'll be like a look back and then coverage of the actual show. Mal, anything you want to say? I'm really excited for the Primer Pod. I just started my rewatch last night, which is the first couple episodes. And I'm like, what an early start and then realized we're recording that pod in a week and a half. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah.

That's how I felt last Friday when I was like, oh, and then I'll have all this time to research the tropes course. And I was like, next week. Holy cats. So it's all coming. What a time. I can just see you like one in one hand, you'll be holding Dune for your Dune reread. The other hand will be your fresh new copy of the three body problem. And then on the screen will be Avatar with also the Super Bowl question mark. Absolutely. Yeah. And then, you know, got to get that bad battery watch in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's going to be a couple weeks. Meaty as hell. If you do not have time to rewatch all of Avatar The Last Airbender, we'll do it for you and we'll be doing a primer pod with top moments. So that's our job, not yours. But I'm really excited for that. I will admit, you know that I'm already apprehensive about this live action adaptation. Some of the interviews that we've been getting in the last week or so has made me even a bit more apprehensive. So we shall see.

We are keeping hope alive, but, you know, we are definitely very excited to do the Primer Pod. That is for certain. No matter what. No matter what. The Primer Pod will be a joy. Not that we need an excuse, but a wonderful excuse to go back and revisit three of our favorite seasons of

What a beautiful story and wonderful world. I just cannot wait. And we haven't really gotten to talk about, I mean, we reference Avatar. It comes up, but we haven't really gotten to talk about Avatar together at length. So that's a very exciting thing. I can't wait for that. And to the other part of Jake's question, like with the Avatar Studios, Paramount Plus, Nickelodeon, this other, this entire other parallel path of...

Content generation. The answer there is an emphatic yes. We will be covering all of that when that comes out. I'm sorry. Is Zuko...

Anything Brian and Mike want to do, I will be there for, like, without question. Cannot wait. Yeah. Thrilled. Cannot wait. Three movies. We're going to get shows. We're going to be in the animated realm. I'm so excited for all the years. We're getting a Kyoshi movie. I mean, Kyoshi movie? Like, a Zuko movie? What more could we want? The Avatar Kyoshi movie is going to be, like, a Nexus event for me. Oh, yeah.

Also, I know Steve loves Kiyoshi. We are of one mind about that. Thrilling. So that's a long way of us saying yes. We'll be talking about all of this. Can't wait. Question number four. Comes from Tom. You teased this, Jo. You teased this question earlier because you're a pro. Do you have any book recommendations for stuff you think you will be covering this year? Example.

three body problem. So we can be smug book readers before it comes out. The answer is of course, yes. There's always a little asterisk with a question like this, which is sometimes we don't know what's coming out this year. So there might be even more. Yes. And like, sometimes you don't see things coming like, we wish we had read Silo and known, you know, so as best we could research and, and sort of look for things to flag. Yeah.

Is the prep we did here. Yeah. Should we just go kind of chronological-ish order? Start with March? Dune? Dune? Have you heard of it? This is kind of a twofer for this year, actually, because we get the Dune movie March 1st, but then we're getting Dune Prophecy, the HBO Max show, fall slash winter-ish. And if you were to put both of those on a hype draft, you would be brilliant. A loser, but brilliant. So... I respected the strategy.

Thanks. Yeah, dude. It's so soon. Oh, man. I know. When we were texting about it last night, I had that very familiar House of R feeling of like a tidal wave of euphoric joy and anticipation and then debilitating anxiety about how close it was. And then just like you broke out. I was like, this is in three weeks. In a cold sweat. Yeah.

Yes, read Dune. A little ditty by Frank Herbert. Just genuinely and sincerely one of the best and most important sci-fi tales ever told. Give it a go. Dune. Read it. Three body problem. Read it. Also March. With us. Also March. So that's, yeah. And if you want to read the whole trilogy, great. If you only want to read the first book, like Jo said earlier, that should position you well. To meet us where? For

That's the password you need to get into the club. I think the password is obviously meaty. The password to the club is obviously... So the club is called... The club is called Bad Babies, right? The password is meaty. Wow.

Okay. I feel like this is a business opportunity that we should consider. I mean, we already have House of Reeds. Yeah. But this is like next door. This is like, I'm going to use a Bill Simmons-ism. Are you ready? This is like in 90210 when they opened up the Peach Pit after dark next to the Peach Pit. Okay. I was going to ask, is this like, is this just, does House of Reeds transform the house?

Into the club at night. House of Reeds After Dark. Yeah, House of Reeds After Dark. It's kind of always House of Reeds After Dark, though, if we're being honest. So yeah, maybe we need to just have a neighboring establishment. Yeah, it's just like a weird little warehouse next door that they turned into the Peach Pit After Dark. And if you've read all of Remembrance of Earth's Past, you can get in. And if you've only read Three-Body Problem, you can get in. Okay. On the March front, we'll just mention we don't have like a locked plan for how...

we're going to be covering the second episode

of season two of Invincible. We'll probably check in around the finale. That would be likely. You know, we loved chatting about the premiere of the season. The guys will be covering it, of course, on Ringiverse. So just a reminder that Invincible is coming back soon for the second half of season two. So get in there with the comics if you haven't yet. This is another great one. They're just absolutely fabulous. Take a gander. Summer? Hottie? Uh...

Fire and blood. Have you heard of it? This is the stuff Lionel. This is the stuff. I miss saying this is the stuff like 25 times per pod. I do. I really do. Let's bring it back. House of the dragon. Read fire and blood. It's fantastic. Yeah. Really is.

Really is. And the thing about this, we talked about this so much during our Hot D season one coverage, but it's such a treat. It's such an interesting reading experience to go through Fire and Blood, this fictional history of House Targaryen.

The show is doing so much in the spaces between every word and every question mark and every period and every sentence that so much of it will still feel new. If you're ever like, well, yeah, I'm intrigued, I'm curious, but I don't want to know everything that happens before I watch the show. This is actually a great opportunity to read the source material first and alleviate that concern because it's not really a concern here. You'll know some major things.

Beats, of course. Yeah. Battles, et cetera. But the show is filling in so many of the spaces. This is, I mean, it's similar to the adaptation conversation we just had where it's like, this is one of those, it's like a skeletal text, a bullet point list, if you will, that, you know, Ryan Condal, et cetera, are fleshing out. And I'm really excited for Hot D.C. I've missed the dragons. I've missed, uh...

talking to Chris Ryan about things he does not understand. It's a great time. We're coming back. I can't wait to do this in whatever the fuck early summer means. Something, something. Yeah.

By whose metric are we calling it, summer or early? Something that was on my list that we skipped over just because now it's been shot into indefinite territory is Mickey 7, Mickey 17. Like, we don't know when that's going to drop. It was supposed to be in March. We don't know when it's going to drop, but that's one that I think we'll want to read the book for. Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. How about the acolyte? This is one where, okay.

We don't know when the Acolyte is coming out. We're assuming summer, but we don't know exactly when. Here's the... This is a pretty broad reading recommendation for the Acolyte. I think as we get closer to it, and we see trailers and get a better feel for the exact story, we'll probably be able to provide some more specific...

recommendations, but broadly, just a reminder that this is set in the High Republic era. So it's this new stretch of the timeline for the TV film sphere of Star Wars storytelling. But for a couple of years now, the High Republic publishing arm has been active. So there are so many comics and novels, stories set in the High Republic era. If you're interested, the High Republic era is broken into phases, right? So the Acolytes are going to be in this phase three swath.

If you just want to get a feel for like what's going on broadly in the High Republic era in Star Wars, I would say at this point, if you just want to feel and a taste, don't even worry about like, is there going to be an exact companion comic or novel related characters? There isn't.

Right. Just dive in to the beginning. For the vibe and for a feel for the period. Just start with the first... The story that kicked off the High Republic publishing arm, the Charles Soule Light of the Jedi novel, or Star Wars, the High Republic comics, Kevin Scott, REO, Anandito. Acclimate there, and then you can dabble further. There are so many things and phases one and two already, and we're...

in the midst of the kickoff here for Phase 3. So there's a lot to explore if you're interested in that, and that's a good way to just get a taste. I think that makes sense to sort of understand the lay of the land. And certainly, like, you know, we know that, like, Ben will certainly be mining plenty of that for expanded lore when we talk about that series. But something I am excited about for that series is that unlike...

Marvel Spotlight show Echo. Like, I really do think you can go into Acolyte not knowing anything. That's like sort of the proposal of that show, the promise of that show. So we love reading assignments. We love homework. But that is a show that if you're not into homework, you can just go in fresh that doesn't have a lot of connective tissue. So, yeah. What's next?

Rings of Power? Lord of the Rings? Fall slash winter, we think. We don't know exactly when, but get those appendices out! Also, for the War of the Rohirrim, if you want to read The Two Towers to reacquaint yourself with the horse people, that's something that you could do. I love those horse people. And then Sandman, season two. Coming soon, Mallory. Coming soon. Not to trigger you. Coming soon. Coming soon.

Coming soon. I will not put any stock into any time frame around Sandman until the minute I sent down to watch it. Never again. I can't wait for more Sandman. That was so fun. We had time. We had a great time with the show and talking to Mark about it and revisiting this incredible creation from Neil Gaiman. That was fun.

That was fun. That was one pod episode that we did, but it felt like more because we spent so much time in the stories. Yeah. I love that. I did a lot. A lot of reading from one pod. A lot of press for another classic Netflix binge drop, but here we are. Good list. Have you heard anything about Cold Storage? This is, okay, so this is a Liam Neeson, Joe Curie joint. Yes. And I'm just going to read the description to you.

The story examines what happens when a dangerous fungus is released into the world and wreaks havoc. Yearning tendrils. Make mushrooms your bitch 2024. Yearning tendrils. With cold storage. Hell yeah. I miss... Yearning tendrils longing to be free. I don't want it. We've got app awards. We've got sign it with your pickle. We've found a way forward. Every pod...

I'm having this classic experience where in real time I'm remembering that wasn't on this podcast, but every pod that we did on the press TV pod, check out Joe's fabulous True Detective episodes over there right now. Every pod starting with a mushroom recipe. That was a time.

It was a wild time. I was trying to, when Fargo, at the end of Fargo, we were getting so many emails and I was trying to tell Rahmahony, I was like, this is the most emails I think I've ever gotten for a non-House of the Dragon show. And he was like, even with the mushroom recipes? I was like, no, no, I forgot about the mushroom recipes. That was out of control. It's an abundance of...

Mushroom. Culinary talk. Yeah. 2025. Allegedly, we're getting the last of season two and more Stranger Things. So I'm really glad I didn't let Mallory put Stranger Things on her hype draft because it has been confirmed now for 2025. But that's going to be a good year, 2025. I know. It's very early for me to be like, next year. We're going to have a blast. But we are. I don't know, man. The years melt away.

We've been doing this together for two and a half years already. Can you believe it? That is truly bananas. Shocking. Yeah. But what a two and a half years it's been. I've loved every second. What a meaty time. Speaking of a two and a half year, not quite, but ish, very long stretch of time. Let's get to our fifth question today. It pains me to read this aloud. Yeah. It is from Emily. If you're driving, buckle up. If you're at home, hold a loved one's hand.

Joanna, here's the question. Yeah. How many days has it been since we've seen Cop Nance? Molly Urban, is everyone buckled in for this? I'm like worried. I'm afraid to hear the answer. It disturbs me to tell you that it has been 727 days since we last saw him. Oh. Yeah. Unless Google did me dirty. Yes. Oh my God.

Goodness. I mean, we're almost at the two-year mark because this was the 9th, 2022. February 9th, 2022. Yeah. Holy fuck. Wow. 727 days. It's not acceptable. I think we're going to have to give up on Cobb Vance for a little while. Maybe until the movie. Well, definitely until we get the movie, I suppose. But we can start our give us aliens soon, Noah Hawley. Give us aliens.

Give us some Oliphant in Aliens action. That's what we need to see. But yeah, it's been a dismal 727 days since the last song. Oh my God. What a source of befuddlement and anguish. Unceasing. What did you call it? The imaginary Apple adaptation of the passage? Unrelentingly grim. Oh boy. Good stuff.

Okay. Thank you, Emily, for that painful reminder. Painful reminder. Of how long it's been since we've eased upon his resting healing form in the Bhakti tank. I don't know if I said this ever on one of our podcasts because I don't know that you ever –

Anyway, one of the highlights of the book tour was when we were in Denver and someone brought a sign that had written on it. It's been however many days since we last saw a cop van and just held it up from the audience. And I was like, wow, the gospel has been spread. Doing important work. Very important work on the road for the book tour. It's great. Love to see it. I love it. This episode is brought to you by Vitamin Water. Food, entertainment, sports.

sports teams. New York City is one of those places that oozes choice. It's got something for every taste. So it's fitting that vitamin water was born there. It's a product of its environment. Colorful, flavorful, anything but boring. Vitamin water injects a daily dose of vibrancy into a watered-down life. So grab some vitamin water today, NYC style. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of Glasso. Next question, number six, from Joey.

Thoughts on the James Gunn Superman casting? Are you guys excited for the new DC direction? Do you intend to cover it ahead of Superman dropping in 2025? I think we can safely say we'll be covering the DCU. The film. I mean, Superman legacy.

I'm so sorry that we didn't fulfill your dream of podcasting from a body of water to cover Aquaman. I have regrets. Yeah. Well, I don't, but I know you do, and I'm sorry about that. We have an anniversary at some point in the future. Superman, however, skis. Yeah. We'll be there. I'm very excited for. Same. I talked to Andy a bit about this on The Watch last week. That...

On the one hand, I'm quite excited about a lot of the casting. Nick Holt as Lex Luthor has me extremely excited. All this kind of stuff. The thing that I'm a little worried about is that we have Hawkgirl casting, we have Green Lantern casting, we've got a bunch of different Justice League casting news inside of that. And I don't know if they're just mere cameos or...

or if there's going to be a more significant presence, but it just makes me a little worried. I don't want James Gunn to feel like he needs to give us the whole kit and caboodle at the start. We would far prefer a slow ramp up. Going too fast towards the Justice League was part of the problem with the last go around on this, which was not that long ago. So that's my only... That and I'm a little... I have some question marks around...

James Gunn's affection for deep irony and what I consider to be a deeply earnest character and story that is Superman. I have some questions about that. Andy was like pew-pewing my – it's not pew-pew. It's like pshaw to your concerns, Joanna. And I was like, okay. But those are my only – they're not even red flags. They're like peachy pink flags. And then everything else I've heard about casting has made me so excited for this episode.

fresh new start. Millie Alcock as Supergirl. Supergirl, right back in that IP machine. Green lights only for me here. I'm hyped. I mean, as you know, I really love James Gunn's genre storytelling. I obviously like the Guardians movies are among my favorite things in the MCU. In the DCEU,

His Suicide Squad movie and Peacemaker were both things that I really enjoyed. I think your point about the tonal translation to Superman is a completely valid one. It's one of the things that excites me and intrigues me the most is to see...

Because I think that Gunn has such a deftness for tonal blends and balance and for ensemble storytelling. So to your point about will it be too crowded, I think it's a great call out. Like, let's dispense with care who we're meeting and when. But there are a few people who I would trust more to nail that, I think. So I am...

The dawn of the DCU, this chapter one gods and monsters slate, the stories that we're getting in there, kicking off with Superman, I think recognizing correctly that nailing Superman is an essential, essential, we have liftoff aspect of what will hopefully be a...

and consistently compelling and gripping and immersive connected universe with purpose and focus and intent and a cohesive vision. I'm hyped about it. I think the Superman casting is like electric so far. You already mentioned our guy, Nicholas Holt. Nick Holt as Lex Luthor

I almost don't need to know anything else about the movie. Seriously. Like, it's that inspired. I mean, we love him. He's just one of our shared faves. So this is really thrilling. And Brosnahan as Lois Lane. Midge is here! Yeah, Midge is here. Cal Midge made it.

Bitch, Maisel is here as Lois? I mean, that is perfect. What a moment for Maisel Hive. When they released the shortlist of actresses that they were considering for Lois Lane, all of them are talented and great. But I was like, it has to be Brosnahan. It has to be Brosnahan, yeah. And it's perfect. And it was. Perfect. One of my great and abiding loves, Nathan Fillion, is, of course, because it's a James Gunn

proposition back. Guy Gardner, that's exciting. The whole cast is exciting. Anthony Kerrigan's here, like Barry Hive, what a moment. This is great. Know-how Hank, I love him. Title role though, let's talk about Superman for a minute and really the key here, which is what this means for all of the Philadelphia fans at The Ringer. You know? Okay.

Tell me. David Cornswine is from Philly. What a moment. Did you... Are you a We Own This City fan? I thought he was sensational in We Own This City. That's really the extent of my exposure to him, but I thought he was absolutely awesome. I did not watch We Own This City, but I did watch...

the politician to my shame and also Pearl. And I think Pearl is the role that like he, that really sort of one-to-one him into the, the Clark Kent role. He's great. Phenomenal. Like really, really good. Yeah. Wonderful. I can't wait for this. I'm excited. Will it be on par with Aquaman? Who can say?

We'll find out together. It's a high aquatic bar to clear. And yet perhaps James Gunn shall do it. You think? Okay. Next one. Question seven. Yeah. Emily.

If you put all the new Who doctors, 9 through 15, into a season of Survivor without their gadgets and TARDIS, okay, without their gadgets and TARDIS, who would come out on top? I figured with the rewatch on the new season on top of mind, it would be a fun idea to explore. I'm very excited for this question. I was just going to hand this off to you entirely, but now I've decided I also want to answer. No, you have to. It's an opportunity also for you to update us on your...

Your connection to Survivor. Is this an ongoing pursuit? What's the latest? I'm not sure I have any new information since the last time we talked. I've sort of fallen off. But I do feel more informed. I was talking to someone about it a couple of weeks ago, and I felt like on solid ground, able to like opine about what makes Survivor great. Okay. I love it. Okay. So let's go –

rapid fire here, like dock by dock and see what we think. Let me just say that I think 15, we don't have enough information yet. Sure. We just simply do not have enough information. We just can't say. Nine. Here's my feeling on nine. Swing vote. Classic number between the alliances, right? Then at a crucial moment,

Boast, you were fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I after a puzzle challenge to come from behind victory. Alien eats his tribe mates gets blindsided at tribal. I think a one season doctor has to be a candidate for a tribal council. Blindside has to be not a winner. I'm with you. You've,

To be clear, Myler has apparently written an entire account for each person. I'm just coming in the last minute to say who I think is going to win. So I'll just yes and you. Yes. Okay. I'm excited for your take on the next thought. Okay. 10 and 14. Both played by David Tennant. Sadly, I think they are immediately voted out. I think they're the first targets because they're a voting block. They're too much of a threat.

as an assumed alliance. And then you add in the bi-generation 15 connection. This is like the Doctor Who universe on Survivor equivalent of a showmance where whether or not these people would actually vote together and stick together, everybody else is afraid that they will and works hard to eliminate them from the jump. I think that 10 and 14 are eliminated immediately. Okay, I don't think they're first to go, but I see your point, but I don't think they're the first to go. But they can't win. No.

They're targeted. They're immediately identified as the key threats, I think. Unless one flips on the other because they know that they have to show that they're not in that alliance in order to survive. It could happen. 14 would flip on 10 is what I'm saying. I could see it. I could see it. I also, I do have some questions about the viability of the footwear on a season of Survivor. Sand shoes? You know, they would be great.

Yeah, on like the challenges, I don't know. It might be tough. Might be tough. But the material probably dries quickly, which is important. I feel like of all of them, not counting 15, because I think he would be the clear front runner here, but of all of them, I feel like either 9 or 13 have the best opportunity to win themselves immunity via physical challenges. Okay. This brings me to 11. Okay. Not 11. On the one hand, I think 11 could make it far because fish fingers and custard are

you can hang with anything on the food front on the island. And that's like actually a big part of it. One of the single most important things, can you hang with any bite of sustenance that you get to just make it a few more hours further in the game? Eleven could do this. Not everybody can. Eleven is an established canonical thing

Soccer star. Football star, Joe. Challenge beast. Definitely. Football star, yes, but then overall like clumsy doofus. Like both a clumsy doofus and a football star. Both of those things are true about him. I think clumsy doofus can actually be an edge in challenges on Survivor because being kind of gangly. Again, though, to your point, this would maybe be beneficial elsewhere as well.

A lot of it is like hanging on to poles. Just can you maintain like a pinky toe foothold or keep your arm out in front of you long enough? I could see Eleven being enough of a threat in this particular Survivor Challenge realm that everyone else is too afraid that Eleven would go on an individual immunity run late in the game. Eliminated. Can't risk it. Got it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thirteen. Thirteen.

You skipped. I think 13. I skipped deliberately. Yeah. This is my answer, too. Okay, go ahead. 13. I think it was a clear answer. I'm not surprised we both landed there. It's obvious. Okay, 13. Okay, can I hop in front of what is sure to be a magical tour through Survivor lore? Just to say, if this is an early Survivor season...

13 gets voted off right away. Women don't make it into the final. In the early seasons of Survivor, women don't make it to the end often in Survivor. And so I think she has a target on her back as the only woman of the group. What's your take? It could happen. It could definitely happen. I think if we're playing in the modern era of Survivor, 13 strikes me as a lock for Final Three because...

the most companions, right? Strong alliance builder. Always has the numbers. And the thing you need, whether you're an outwit, an outplayer, at last, no matter what your particular style is, you've got to be in the numbers. You have to be able to amass and keep the numbers. You have to know where the numbers are. And 13 has that, I think, more than any other doctor. But I don't think 13 will win. I think we both landed on the same winner. A clear winner. It's 12. It's the professor, obviously. Come on.

The head game, the mind game. So many hallmarks of a Survivor winner for 12.

That ability to like stay, you know, we talk about the first season, it takes some time to warm up to 12. Like, this is an asset on Survivor. Staying under the radar early is huge. Being underestimated. You know, not drawing attention, being underestimated. Exactly. Like, that's how people, and especially in the modern era, I would say consistently the players who have the best case and the best game do not win. They're just stupid.

so objectively and apparently threatening to their fellow players that they are eliminated. So this is like a helpful place to be. And there's that fierce loyalty, right? Think of Clara. Mm-hmm.

The ability to make peace with a foe. Think of Missy. This is on the social game side, I think, an area where 12 has a real edge. And then I think with that question... Can cross-generations, like Bill, like, you know, I love the cross-generation alliances on Survivor. Absolutely. Yeah. You get to Final Tribal.

Is there a better case that anyone can make on the perseverance front to sway the jury than Heaven Sent? I think this just carries the day. And puzzles. Solving puzzles. Absolutely. Easy win for 12. It's 12. It's 12. You see 12 sitting there on one of those little stumps at Final Tribal as Probst looks on saying pain is a gift. Yeah.

You know, without the capacity for pain. He's like so wiry and rangy at that point. He's like a tough piece of chicken, but also somehow tan. I don't know what Peter Capaldi would look like with a tan because he's Scottish, but let's just say somehow tan. Oh, boy. Alas, I don't think you'll get much of your hoodie action on his season of Survivor, but, you know, ample time. Maybe the nighttime garment, you know, that evening chill. Yeah.

Gotta have some layers. Buff. Where would he wear his buff? What a fabulous question. I am going to go with like a neck. Yeah, neck buff. Yeah, it's a cravat. It's a cravat. Yeah. Yes, correct. That's right. I love it. That was fun. Great stuff. Thanks, Emily.

Thanks, Emily. And also, Mallory, I'm so excited that you have all this Doctor Who knowledge. I know. I was like, I can do this? Wow. Easy. What a time. What a time and what a joy. All right. Number eight is a two-parter because we simply could not contain ourselves. This is our Dune stretch of the pod. Double feature. It's a double feature, Jo. It sure is. Boy, and what a climax. All right. I'm going to read both the questions.

Yeah. Let's call it 8A. This is from Zach. With Dune Part 2 less than a month away. Oh my God. Bring back the Mally Rubin anxiety dragon screech. Wow. Thank you, Steve. Great stuff, Steve. Horrifying. And people like Christopher Nolan praising it as Denise Empire Strikes Back. The hype is real.

I know that it's maybe the thing I've been most excited to watch for well over a year now. Probably since Ben picked it on the 2023 hype draft. That's just a little aside there. Back to the question. What are you most looking forward to seeing? Is it a character interaction, a set piece, or a part of the world? Just seeing how the story takes shape? Okay, so that's the first question from Zach. Okay.

The second question, 8B, is from Chris. I should say the first three words were just the subject line of the email and then the rest was the body of the email. Subject line. Dune popcorn bucket. Email. That is all. Fellow Marylander love the show. Did you watch the SNL sketch? I watched it on YouTube. Yeah.

I was going to send it to you, but then it was like one of those things where I'm like, I know that 90 people have already sent this to Mallory, so I'm just not going to bother her. I did not see it on SNL, but I saw it on YouTube.

These days when I send Mallory TikTok, she's like, yeah, I saw that on Instagram three hours ago, Joanna. I'm like, oh, okay. Not true. I would say 97% of what you send me on TikTok I have never seen. Only, you know, deep into the Percy Jackson Instagram real hive. So that's the one and only time that it ever happened, I think. Dune popcorn bucket. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Will we be getting them? Absolutely. Without question. I have a question about the logistics of the doom popcorn bucket. About how to... The concept is you fist it, grab your handful of popcorn, and then pull it out? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the concept is you fist it. That's what they're going for. God's being good. I mean, what else are you doing to it?

Yeah. It honestly didn't occur to me until like... You can like shake it and like get like a kernel on the edge and then gently like tongue a piece of popcorn into your mouth. You could do that. You're gonna edge and rim your popcorn. Bad baby.

This is the popcorn bucket maker's fault. Absolutely not our fault. What did it take for us to think? I will say, I prefer no butter on my popcorn. And I don't know if that'll just, like, make for a rougher time at the old... Yeah. You gotta think about the lubricant here. You want a smoother entrance. Like...

I don't know. So we are hopefully going to get to see Dune together. Yeah. Hopefully. But yes, we are going to see Dune together. But also. We're getting the popcorn bucket. It's happening. When are the buckets, are they currently available or not available until that screening? Great question.

Great question. I don't know. We're going to get one at the screening. We're going to go again, opening weekend, get another one. We're going to make some Instagram content. I'm curious if they'll, like, because I'm going to a press screening too, and I'm curious if they'll have them at the press screening. I mean, dare they? Dare they on the media? A midday?

With that much fodder. I don't know. Dune popcorn bucket situation. I don't know. Anyway, thank you, Chris, for that email. Thanks, Chris. And thank you to the fine folks at AMC.

An astonishing thing. Oh, it's just an AMC situation. Okay, then we're not going to get it at the press. No, actually, maybe. Okay, anyway. And then Zach was asking about the substance of the cinematic classic. Yeah, what are you most looking forward to in Dune Part 2? Other than the overwhelming... If you can pick just one thing. I'm so excited for you to see it on the big screen. That is really exciting for me. Yeah, because I didn't see the first Dune in the movies. I was a hoax.

I did. I risked life and limb to sit in a very packed IMAX seat and hyperventilate into my mask watching it. But the sheer overwhelm of the IMAX experience, the sound and the visuals, that's obviously high on the list.

Mors and Daya, et cetera, et cetera. That's all on the list. But the two sort of story character elements I'm really excited about, I don't believe this is a spoiler, but I will rely on you to stop me if you think it is.

The complication of the Messiah narrative? This is my answer as well. Okay, great. Then we are both pure and perfect and not spilling anything. We won't get into any of the specifics of the story, but I think I feel that this is safe because the trailers are built around this idea, I think. This is how the movie is being marketed. Yeah.

as a story that's interested in examining how a prophecy and how the idea of a Messiah impacts a society and a person. This is also my pick. Go for it. And then my second part, I will let you flesh out the Messiah narrative thing, is the palace intrigue aspect of the later parts of the Dune novel. Leia Sidhu is playing this character, Lady Margo. Mm-hmm.

And then they have not announced who is playing her husband, Count Fenring. People think that possibly Tim Blake Nelson, who is in the cast, is playing her husband, but

But they refuse to confirm who Tim Blake Nelson is playing. And there's this quote in the Hollywood Reporter article about it. This is, quote, details for Nelson's role are being kept deep in the sand. What does that mean? Like, what could possibly be a spoiler? So is he playing Count Fenring? And will we get Tim Blake Nelson, who we love, who's so good at being, like, sly and all this other stuff, with Leia Sejou as these, like, scheming members of the court?

or is he playing a character from a future book?

Interesting. Dune Messiah, and they're bringing it forward into Dune 2. So solving the mystery of Tim Blake Nelson slash the actual palace intrigue that happens in the plot of, you know, we're Thrones fans. We love palace intrigue. Yeah. That's another part that I'm really excited for. Ooh, fascinating. Do you think he fucks the popcorn bucket at any point? Do you think anyone in the movie sticks their dick into the...

keeping maw of a plastic sandworm topping a movie snack. If anyone is fucking the bucket, it's the Baron. Like, the Baron is suspect numero uno for who fucked the popcorn bucket. It is definitely the Baron. And everyone watching the movie, of course. Obviously. We love a shared experience. What else do you want to say about the...

I'll just rip off a couple of the lines that we've heard in the trailers. Because I do think that this is like... Okay, so pan back. We already talked earlier about how much we love Dune. It's one of our favorite, our shared favorite stories. We both absolutely loved the first movie. One of our first plots together. One of our very first. We can just start with Dune. Like, what a joy for us. Wild times. Wild, wild times. Denis Villeneuve is...

One of my favorite filmmakers, like the first Dune movie, Arrival, Love Arrival, Sicario, Blade Runner 2049, Enemy, like these, on and on the filmography goes, I just can't wait to see. And he's such a, one of the coolest parts about the first Dune film in addition to just how beautiful

beautiful it was and how well made it was, was hearing his passion for the story, right? Hearing about his connection to Frank Herbert's novel. And you could feel that love and that care in every frame of the movie. And so I'm not surprised by this positioning of the trailers and this emphasis in the trailers. And like, I'm just so curious to see how he as a filmmaker, uh,

He interrogates this idea, this question of like, what role does a prophecy play in a person's life, in a people's life, in a society, in a world? Emperor, deal with this prophet. Send assassins. Paul, I see possible futures all at once. And in so many futures, our enemies prevail. But I do see a way there is a narrow way through. Johnny.

You will never lose me as long as you stay who you are. Shani, this prophecy is how they enslave us. Paul, it's not a prophecy. It's a story. Stilgar, I don't care what you believe. I believe. Jessica, we gave them something to hope for. Paul, that's not hope! Gurney,

The Prophet, why is that a bad thing? Use it, Paul, because all my visions lead to horror. Gurney, because you lose control? Paul, because I gain it. This is like the substance of the trailers. So I'm really excited to see the interest that Denis Villeneuve has in this aspect of horror.

A sprawling epic and a genre tale and what the part two film does with it. I just, I genuinely can't wait. This is like one of our favorite things to talk about. And I don't blame anyone who like was unfamiliar with the source material who came out of the first movie with that like sort of edginess around the idea of like, is this...

a white savior story, like, you know, blah, blah. And, and all of us who had either seen a different adaptation or read the books or whatever, you know, we're trying to say like, just wait, this is a much more, like Frank Herbert is interested in something much more complicated about the idea of a chosen one. This is not a straightforward chosen one narrative. And so the payoff for that, um,

Yeah, I'm very excited for that. It just makes the whole story. I mean, this is an urtext for Star Wars, which, you know, makes all this other stuff that, you know, and... But I think a lot of the things that have come after it have told much more simplified versions of what Frank Herbert had on his mind when he made Dune and created Paul Atreides, so...

Yes, we will be covering the shit out of Dune. We're so excited. Can't wait. Yeah. Can't wait. Oh, my God. Okay, I'm excited for this next question, Jo. Yeah. Number nine. It's from Catherine. Number nine. Yeah. I have been trying to convince my boyfriend, Zach, to finish Lost for years at this point. Catherine, girl, through a whole pandemic, she's like, come on.

And he essentially refuses. He started watching during the pandemic and fell off around Stranger in a Strange Land, which like, fair enough.

That made me laugh. But I need him to finish it. I don't know how much longer I can date someone who hasn't seen LeFleur. He loves Loki, Twin Peaks, Severance, literally every and any show that is similar. He listens to almost every episode of House of R. And I'm hoping that you can give him some reasons to finally finish the series. Joanna?

The floor is yours. Not having all the information about like why it is that Zach fell off other than Stranger in a Strange Land is cannot be the worst... The worst episode of Lost. But...

But maybe if Zach's listening right now, it would help to hear that Stranger to Strangeland, everyone who made that show knows it's the worst episode of the show. And it was the episode that the creators of that show brought to the network to be like, you can't let us make this show forever. We're just going to keep making dumb Jack Tattoo episodes. Let us end the show. And that's what ABC was like.

okay, you know, we're just going to do a couple more seasons. We're going to give you something to aim for. That was fairly unprecedented in television. It wasn't like the, it was never that. This is, this is a point that Andy, I think was making. Oh, nevermind on an episode of stick the landing that has not aired yet. So I just got that confused with something that's aired. Anyway, you'll hear it on a future episode of stick the landing that I did with Andy over on the prestige feed. But, um,

You know, show creators were not allowed to simply just decide when their show ended. So this is like something that was fairly new in the lost era. And what comes after in terms of ramping up the genre content, especially season five, which I think is just like a killer season of genre television, is not to be missed.

All that aside, I mean, however much I care about Lost or I think it is foundational to all these other shows that came after it, all of that aside, I think, you know, maybe we'll revisit this in our Valentine's Day discussion. Who knows? I think if someone, if a partner comes to you and is like, this is really, this story is really important to me, I think you watch the story. I think you go ahead and you do it, you know, and maybe you don't love it, but if it's key to

to the person that you're choosing to partner with, then watch the show, watch the movie, play the video game, read the book, like do the thing. Yeah. Yeah. We love sharing stories. We're talking about that, you know, so. This reminds me of how Adam used to, he had not read Harry Potter and he used to always say, I'll read it to our kids one day. And I was like, I'm not having kids with you if you haven't read this. Are you crazy? I'm going to procreate with you if you won't do this for me. What? Yeah.

But sharing a thing that you love with the person you... I mean, first of all, scenes from a marriage. Secondly, like, sharing something you love with the person you love. I mean, that's, like, the foundation for... He ended up reading it. He read it during the binge Harry season. And he loved it. It was very special. But it took him a while. Don't worry. I knew that that was the ending of that story. But, like, you know, getting to pay attention to things you love and share it with the other people that you love, that's, like, what we do here on the show. And I think it's a beautiful thing to do. So...

I love watching Lost with other people, especially people who have never seen it before. Like, it's really exciting for them to experience it for the first time. Same. Yeah. I know. There's a part of me that's like, just tell them to get to the end. So this is...

Season three. 58 episodes total into Lost. This is the ninth episode of season three. So there's a part of me that's like, just convince them to get to the end of season three because through the looking glasses, Lost at its finest, but television at its finest? It's just supreme. But then there's a part of me that's like,

Falling off during Stranger in a Slender's Land, okay, but you've, by this point, you're into season three. Like, you've seen the pilot, you've seen Walkabout, you've seen Deus Ex Machina, you've seen Man of Science, Man of Faith, you've seen Tale of Two Cities.

Maybe the show is not for him and that would be tragic and dismaying, but okay. I want to leave room for that, but yeah. I think the part of, here's the other thing I would say. You make, this is like, you made a,

A beautiful point about the active decision to say, don't let us make episodes like this, which is important. But also, it's like part of the joy of Lost. It's this, we don't get to watch TV like this anymore, right? Everything is like measured to the minute and to the frame. Yes. And like the idea that you could actually sometimes have a

A real stinker. Yeah, a stinker. Like you make the brilliant point often about how this allows us sometimes just the time to like hang with the gang, right? We're with Hurley. We're in the van.

The very next episode after Stranger in Strangeland is Trisha Tanaka is dead. Yeah. Which is the ultimate let's just hang out with the gang episode. Let's just hang. And one of the best episodes of Lost of all time. Exactly. So, like, you just get one episode further and you see that sometimes those moments that feel like, okay, wait, what are we doing here are the beauty of it. Yeah. And I think, so I have one of my, the

Dear, dear friends, we have a lot of tastes in common on the story front, and he has not watched Lost, and I beg him to watch it. And he says often, it's just too many episodes. Lost is 121 episodes. And he's like, it's just too many episodes. I think this is a very modern TV viewer. I'm used to seasons of TV being six, eight, 10 episodes. 121 feels like the most daunting thing. I would just say that

It is an absolute pleasure to watch 121 episodes of Lost. Like, to get to linger in the story with those characters for that long, you will miss it when it's gone. It won't feel like a chore to reach the end. You will be desperate to return. I did my Lost rewatch at the beginning of COVID, and I'm already, like, I mean, I was saying this to you, like, eight months after that. So it's been the case for a couple years now. I'm ready to do it again. We have to go back, Mallory. We have to!

I don't know. Lost is the best. If it wouldn't be the cheapest thing in the world for me to do another full Lost Rewatch podcast, I would do that with you in a minute. Anniversary year. Anniversary year. And I just say, if there's any time to follow up Lost, this first...

third of season three, which is the Nicky Impalo era, fucking Fish Biscuit era, and like, writer's strikes were happening. There's just like a lot of stuff going on. It is widely considered the roughest patch of love. However you feel about the finale, this is widely considered the roughest stretch. And then you were already at the last episode of the roughest stretch. You already got there. The next episode is just your Fish Biscuity reward for everything that you've endured. Nicky Impalo...

Shout out, Exposé. Spoiler. We'll not be around for much longer. So it's fine. Oh, man. Season five. That's like absolutely still one of my favorite time travel stories. So good. So good. Absolutely fantastic. So Catherine and Zach, I hope you watch Lost together, but I guess I will grudgingly agree with Mallory. It is okay, Zach, if you just don't like Lost. That is okay. I mean, I just said that just to try to be nice. Come on, Zach. Zach, watch Lost. Join us. Treat yourself.

To the pleasure of watching Lost. Okay, here's my last sales pitch for Zach. This is just occurring to me, but this was one of the things I loved most about watching Lost for the first time. Catherine is telling us that Zach is a fan of genre stories, a fan of pods, consuming content around the content. As you're watching Lost, track the books that are appearing in scenes and then read them. You pick up clues. That was one of the really fun things to do, right? You see, like, Harlan and the Sea of Stories or Everything That Rises Must Converge, and you pick it up. I mean, like...

Kate, are you capable of seeing Watership Down in Sawyer's hand and not going to read it? Mice and Men is just waiting for you. You know, I told you this before, but I got a copy of Our Mutual Friend and then I've just been waiting to read it. Won't read it. Yeah. Your cosplaying does make a story and that's phenomenal. You've got to make your own kind of music. Okay. Moving on. This is actually a nice segue into this next question. Number 10. Nate. Nate.

My girlfriend and I are currently watching Thrones together for the first time, both in preparation for Hot D season two, but also to connect over something that we heard was very special. So sweet. Oh,

I was wondering if you could talk about the first time that you remember connecting with someone very special to you, whether it's a family member or a friend. I think there's nothing better than bonding with someone over a shared love of a story and its characters. I love listening to every episode of the pod so much. Keep up the amazing work. What a lovely question from Nate. Joe, what is your answer here? Were you capable of picking just one thing? I think I've tried to pick something that I haven't talked about before because you and I have talked around this other times in our lives, you know, um,

I can't wait to hear this. I'm excited. I was thinking about my high school friends a lot. And I was thinking about this moment. There's this guy I went to high school with, Chris Allen, where I walked into a classroom. He was talking about something and he made some like really obscure reference to something, not in a way that he hoped I would get it, just in a way that made sense to him. And I was like, are you talking about Dragonlance novel right now? And he was like,

you read Dragonlance? I was like, I do read Dragonlance. And that was like, Dragonlance was like one of the most hyper nerdy things I ever read in my life. And I read it in deep, dark secret and never talked about it. So the fact that like, I could meet someone who like had also read it and, you know, then we were like, oh, green light. This is a safe space to talk about this like extraordinary

extremely appallingly nerdy thing that we both enjoyed. But then that group, Chris and then like these other, you know, friends that we got together with Hillary and Charlie and Kyle and all these people, we used to just go over to Hillary's house and watch movies all the time. I've talked about that before, but I don't know that I've ever talked about the fact that Kyle and Charlie and a couple others would bring over these box sets of, and they

And they were VHS box sets. I mean, we were in the era of DVDs, but these were VHS box sets of the TV show Highlander, which is, you know, a story about immortals and time, not time travel, but it hops through time and stuff like that. And we just used to mainline episodes of Highlander, which was, again, one of the

uncool things we possibly could have done, but we just had the best time doing that. And is it a great show? No. But did I love watching it with those friends and then, like, making references to it to each other all the time? Yes. I think about it often. So, like...

It's so special to just sort of methodically work your way through something with someone. I just think it's one of the most enjoyable things to do. You and Adam watching all of Doctor Who, or watching all the things that you guys watch together, but I just think it's like, you know, or all the people that I've been like, we're going to watch Lost together, whatever it is. It's just so beautiful. I love that. VHS. VHS. Dynamite.

Do you still have a tape player? Do I still have a tape player? No. Do I still have any VHS tapes? I don't think so. I think I got rid of all... I have a couple. I have some hard tapes. I think all the tapes I used to own... Oh, no. I bet I still have my double Magnolia VHS. Hell yeah. I bet I still have that. I might have...

I think I have witness on these. Classic. I'm going to check. And the tape is like literally worn through at a couple of key scenes. Yeah, you can no longer watch the barn dance in the Sam Cooke sequence. It's all like... It's all warped. Oh, yes. Oh, what a lovely story. Highlander. I love that. That's a great one. Man, this is beautiful. This is hard. I don't know. I...

There are so many. I think that's like the, there's a reason that we choose to spend so much of our time doing what we do. Right. And talking about these stories together and sharing them with each other and sharing them with our wonderful listeners. Shout out bad babies. It's cause like, it's our favorite thing in the world to have that experience with people. And I was thinking actually like going back kind of through the,

I was thinking of like key people in my life, but then also key stories and how often there was an overlap there. Right. And like often recurring, because I think part of like the question of, is it,

what feels better when someone introduces you to something that they love and you get to understand why it's meaningful to them or when you get to share something you love with somebody who means something to you and it's like the answer is both, right? Why not both? Or then like you're exposed to something from somebody, like they bring it into your life and then you get to share it with another person. You get to kind of evangelize on behalf of a thing that has become important to you. And so it's just like, you know, over the span of a few minutes thinking about this lovely question from Nate, I was like thinking about

It felt like really there were these like patterns, these like cycles of like something coming into my life and then I would share it. Yeah. I have so many examples. It's really hard to pick one. It's great. Yeah. And I feel like that'll be the case forever with some of these things. Like I don't,

foresee ever, I mean, we just talked about loss. It's a great example. I don't foresee ever losing interest myself in experiencing loss, but I also don't, I don't foresee a moment where I stopped trying to convince other people to watch loss for the first time too. Right. So, um, I'll just run through some, like I'll, I'll you, you, you really, you brought something new into our lives. I'm going to play the hits here. I'll go through some highlights. So let's, let's see here. Um,

So with my dad, which is often where I start with prompts like this because he's responsible for bringing so many of these stories into my life, I was thinking, I don't know if I've ever thought of it quite this precisely of these kinds of like buckets of time. Like The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings was elementary school, fifth grade. And like for, well, fifth grade for The Hobbit, I had

with sixth grade. And I've shared this before on pods, but The Hobbit is such a formative experience for me as a reader because I was such a late bloomer as a reader. I really struggled with reading when I was a kid. And that was the first book that I got moved into a higher reading group at school for. And it was this book that my dad had put in the little bookshelf in my room. And he's a Tolkien obsessive. And it was one of the stories that he was most excited to share with me. And it really, it's this beautiful convergence of reading

my budding confidence as a reader and him sharing something that was so meaningful to him, you know, and like, I remember him showing me the covers, like the maps that he had when he was a kid and how like those are the books that he thinks of in his mind. That's what they look like to him and just how cool that was. So that was like late elementary school. And then,

middle school, he took me to see Star Wars, the original trilogy, because they re-released it heading into Phantom Menace. So that was my first exposure to Star Wars was seeing the original trilogy with my dad. The specialized editions, right? He had some notes. He had some thoughts. But that's like this

I mean, Star Wars is still to this day one of the most important things in my life, and that was the beginning of it for me. I think if there are so many books in high school and college that my dad gave to me, it's difficult to really drill down on one. But I think if I had to pick one for high school and college, it would be Watership Down for high school and Dune for college. And those are just...

seminal experiences for me. And, like, my dad brought all those stories into my life, so that's just a wonderful thing to think about. And then I was thinking, again, with that kind of, like, cycle and, like, when do you... So then I was thinking of my stepmom, Debbie, icon. And I was like, well, did I give any of this back to them at any point, right? And I was trying to think, and, like, when I... I was talking about Goblet earlier today. So when I read Goblet of Fire for the first time, we were at the Outer Banks on a family vacation. And...

There are only two times in my life that I can remember, like when I was younger or now. I'm glad everyone else is here and it's nice to see you, but I'll just be on the deck with my book. Thanks. But that was not always the case when I was younger. And I have a really vivid memory of an earlier trip, earlier...

In high school where I was reading, I was reading Ethan Frome for summer reading for school. And I was just like, I cannot engage with anybody until I finish this. I was just like wrapped. The red glass. And I was also at the Outer Banks. I just couldn't, I couldn't move. Yeah. And then the summer I read Goblet and I was so excited.

obsessed with it. I didn't want to do anything but read it and think about it and talk about it. And Debbie, my wonderful stepmom, had not read a page. And this is the fourth book in the series. And she could just tell that it was all I wanted to think about and talk about. So I have such a vivid memory of like standing in the ocean with her jumping waves, telling her... She just wanted me to tell her all about it, even though I would be spoiling things from the fourth book. And I like...

I could not stop talking to her about it because it was just, it had like, it just had its talents in me. And then she went and read it and like, it was amazing to, and then we ended up like, if the five books were out at that point that summer. So it was very new for both of us. And then like, we went to the midnight release for Half-Blood Prince together at the Barnes and Noble in Pikesville, Maryland when that came out. And like, it became a thing that we shared. So that was what I was thinking about most. And like,

You know, and then I was thinking because of the lost question, actually, I was thinking of Adam and like, sometimes I think we have these moments where we're like, should we leave the house more and do something other than just watch TV and movies and read books? Like, should we go outside? Should we see? What do you think it would feel like if a ray of sunshine hit our skin? It would burn you. What would it mean? It would sizzle. It would sizzle. What would that vitamin D hit mean?

But, like, you know, we've chatted before about, like, we love to rewatch Lord of the Rings together every year. We... Doing a Thrones rewatch for the first time since Thrones had ended ahead of House of the Dragon, not only was it really fun to revisit the series, but I was like, this is our rhythm together. Like, we used to rewatch it together every year in full. But Lost and Battlestar were the first two things for us that, like, he had seen all of Battlestar. I hadn't. So it was a thing he loved and that he really thought I would love. And, like, we...

I have such a vivid memory of watching that with him for the first time. And like, it's literally like the Portlandia sketch. Like it's just like, could not, could not leave the couch or leave the apartment. Like another one, another one, another one. You have to scream when you realize you're done, you know? But it's like one of my favorite shows still to this day. And a lot of that is because I love what,

Melody Moore did with the show, Adama and Rosalyn are like my all-time faves, you know, all of it. But a big part of it is because it was this wonderful thing to share that together. And then immediately, like, my mom had like a foot surgery and I went home to help her that week. And I was like, I know what we'll do. Like,

We'll just do it all again. We'll just watch Battlestar. And she hadn't seen it. I just immediately wanted to share it with someone, you know? That's beautiful. And like watching Lost, the first time that I watched Lost, because it had been on when I was in college, so I was like catching up, heading into the final stretch of it, which I then watched live. And actually, that was my first time ever potting about anything, was smuggling 10 to 15 minutes of Lost talk into an SI college football pod with my buddy, Stu Mandel, the Mandel Initiative. But watching Lost for the first time, I also did with Ad, and it was like...

I think when you realize that somebody like one of the things I love about potting with you, one of the things that was like what I loved about potting doing binge with Jay is like you feel like really safe being completely yourself, right? Like you could just be as this is like a little bit what you were saying a minute ago. Like,

You can say unapologetically out loud, I love this thing. It matters to me this much. Like, you don't have to worry about anybody judging you or thinking you're weird. And so, like, when I was falling into these worlds, like, lost, I was like, like I was saying earlier, I'm like, I see this book. I have to go read it. I have to look for clues. I was like, the Jeff Jensen columns every week. That was one of my, like... Yeah. Oh, my God. I just couldn't wait to fall into those columns and parse every clue. And, like...

The other person in the room with you being like, it's amazing that this makes you this happy is like a really cool and special thing. I think about this a lot in terms of the Thrones finale, because I'm sure I've told you this before, but like every other episode of Thrones, I watched like a maniac for work, like an absolute stress-filled maniac. And for the finale, I was like,

Dave and Neil, my Trial by Content co-hosts, were in town for this live show we were doing, so I watched it with them. And I was never watching it with people because I was working, and I was so stressed. And I know you also were working and quite stressed when you were watching Thrones, but to watch it with them, I was like, oh...

Oh, this is what like normal people feel like when they watch Thrones. It's just like you're watching it with someone and you're gasping and like calling out all the moments. You're not like, that's an Easter egg. That's a gift. That's this. That's that. So it's a whole different experience. And like I felt that often I will like rewatch. I will if I'm watching something for work.

I often find it's best if I watch it by myself so that I can concentrate, but I will often like rewatch it with someone and sort of try to watch it through their eyes. And it helps me better understand like what the people think about this thing that we're watching who aren't like so far in it. They can't see like, you know, they're, they're the forest for the trees or what have you. But yeah, there's just like,

I think so fondly of so many people and so many... I love the way that you talked about that in terms of time and rhythms. This is... I feel like...

Dr. Manhattan and I am like at once a child in the morning in my mom's bed watching Perry Mason. Like at 7 o'clock in the morning, we would watch an episode of Perry Mason before breakfast in school for like, I don't know, whatever reason. Or like, you know, or you're in college and I got everyone, all of my friends to watch Buffy. They didn't give a shit about Buffy. By sheer force of will, I made it like a Tuesday regular thing, you know? Like it's just...

This, yeah, sharing stories and talking about story, like what better way to understand each other and ourselves? And it's exactly why we do what we do. So thank you for that question, Nate. Thank you, Nate. That was really nice. We go from that extremely emotional and meaningful prompt to question 11. That might divide this podcast forever, possibly. I think we'll survive. We'll manage. This is from Arielle.

What is your ideal peanut butter and jelly ratio? Okay, Joanna. You teased some pending thoughts on jam. This is the prompt. This is the prompt, Lionel. What do you got? It is 100% peanut butter, 0% jelly. What? Yeah. Okay, so we know how you feel. It's Joanna Robinson canon. You don't do hot fruit. So like, obviously to make a jam, the fruit has to at some point be hot.

Yeah, it's already reached... It's not hot when you're eating it. That is not... It's the consistency. It's already reached its point of maceration, and we're past the point of no return. We can't do it. And I will say very specifically, and this is a pure nostalgia machine situation, my grandma Jean used to make peanut butter sandwiches that were like wonder bread. Uh-huh, sure. And...

skippy peanut butter. Yeah. Like the two most processed Americana. Delicious. Like far away from a natural, of an actual peanut you could get. Ambrosia. Absolutely delectable to me. Tastes of...

nostalgia and fondness, and she would serve it with what? A Granny Smith apple. So there you go. That is, to me, the ideal. So you were a Skippy family, not a Jeff family? Skippy Creamy all the way. And then my sister, because my sister took a hard left turn into vegetarianism and health nuttery in high school, and that's when she started to introduce...

the like really healthy I mean as far as peanut butter can go healthy where it's like you have to shake it to get the oil to reincorporate oh sure yeah the crunchy nut yeah Laura's gutters or whatever I um sure I would rather have no peanut butter than that peanut butter personally oh wow okay twist that's just very I will and I appreciate that this is like

This is a bad answer. Skippy's a bad answer. I understand that. But this is who I am and where we are. So do you get Skippy still today? I don't really. I mean, yes. You're not fucking with peanut butter today. If I am to buy peanut butter today, it would exclusively be to put on a Granny Smith apple and it would be Skippy Creamy. Yes. So, okay. You're not putting any jam on your PB&T?

There's no J. It's just PB. PB and B. But there's no end? What about fluff? What about bananas? No. Nothing? No. It's not too dry of a sandwich? No. If it's skippy creamy and then like a spongy white bread, you need like a really spongy white bread in order to make that work. Yeah. Fascinating. Okay. I mean. I knew this would be controversy. This is why I left it in the batch of questions. I'm astounded. Yeah.

But no judgment if that makes you happy. So...

I'll note that my mom would get Skippy and my dad would get Jif. This was way back when. Now my dad, I think, is a Justin's patron, as am I. Yeah. A Justin's honey peanut butter, my personal go-to these days. But back in the day, the Skippy and the Jif for us as kids, I was like, this is what, right. This is why they didn't think I divorced. One team Skippy, team Jif. Never the twain shall meet. Absolutely. So I would like to say that my ratio answer here, it's...

I think there is an ideal ratio for the peanut butter and the jelly, but for me, it's more about the balance of both of those to the bread. I don't want a dry, gluey PB&J. I want a wet... I want a wet, messy sandwich. Wet, messy. Wet, messy. That's what I want. I want every... I'm sorry. It's true. I'm sorry.

I want everything lightly toasted. I genuinely thought that me saying in the club, the book club was the worst thing about this episode, but I think you calling it a sandwich wet and messy might be a thing. That's how it should be. Lightly toasted bread. You need a little bit of crunch, right? You don't want the bread to be too soggy. I don't want a single...

an iota of visible bread before the crust line. I want the peanut butter and the jelly spread on every single kernel of each slice of bread. Every kernel.

And I like a lot of peanut butter and a lot of preserves on there. Sure. Partial to like a raspberry. It's got to be wet and messy. Wet and messy. Partial to like a raspberry or a blackberry preserve. That's ideal. I'd say if you're just going to do like a baguette with maybe like some butter and jam, I might go with a cherry. But for the PB&J sandwich, I like a raspberry or a blackberry. And I'm going to go like...

What do you think is the most... 40%. Sorry. 45% peanut butter, 55% jelly to keep it moist. That sounds wet and messy to me. Is the classic... The classic J is a grape, right? Most people like grape jelly and they're keeping J. I think certainly for kids, for sure. I always felt that then people aged out of grape and into strawberry as their go-to, but maybe that's not right. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Yeah.

I love a PB&J. Delicious. Like a nice multigrain bread. Perhaps if you're feeling adventurous, like a sourdough? Oh, my God. No. Yum. All of this is absolutely incorrect. Also, I love fluff. Fluff and peanut butter. That was childhood in a bite. Wonderful. Okay. Last question. Bring us home. No jelly in this question. No. Just some vintage Joanna Robinson guidance. Service journalism for people in need. This question.

Uh, from Janae. Similar to Doctor Who. I'm interested in watching Star Trek, but I don't know where to start. Between the several TV series and movies, it's a bit overwhelming. Where would you recommend jumping in? Jo, what guidance can you offer? So delighted to be asked this question. I have two answers for you. On the... If you're someone who, like... Because some people have a barrier of entry for...

things that were made a long time ago. They're like, oh, this feels sort of musty and dusty. Or there have been so many things that have come after it that have aped it that by the time you get to the original thing, you're like, this feels... I've seen this already. It's because you've seen all the imitations. So if you worry about things feeling sort of old or possibly stale to you, why not start with Stranger Worlds, which is the currently airing fantastic Star Trek show, which takes...

uh some of the original characters like spock and uhura stuff like that and like you know puts them in new adventures so i would say you could start there um if you if you want to start with one of the older shows i think it's either between next gen or the original series i might start with next gen because i feel like next gen has a stronger grip on sort of millennials and um

But I eventually want you to get to the original series. The original series is so good. It is of its time, but it is so, so good. So I would put it in order. Strange New Worlds, next gen, Star Trek Next Generation. And then you can watch like the Star Trek Next Generation films if you want. The original series. And then like, you know,

If you want something super easy to get into, super pop and super easy, the J.J. Abrams films. Like, you know, the first two. Yeah. So that's what I would say. But Star Wars turns you worlds. And you're starting with something that is, like, super contemporary and is very, very good. And very, I think, of a spirit of the original series or next gen. And you get a musical episode. What a joy. But, yeah, you get a musical episode. Yeah. Star Trek. Killer. Yeah.

I asked Adam his answer to this question because he's a Star Trek obsessive and he spoke uninterrupted for 45 minutes. What was his answer? What was his like very... Original series. Original series. I mean, it makes sense. I just, I want to set people up. I mean, he loves Stranger Worlds, so. I want to set people up for success. And like, again, if you have no issue with anything retro, then yeah, start with the original series. Why not? He said of the original series, quote, I actually wrote this one quote down, you'll find your love here or you won't find it at all.

Did you say that's you in the kitchen? No, we were on the couch. Okay. Yeah. I just will forever think about the voice, the Doctor Who voice note I got from the kitchen. I asked, I said, should we do a voice memo? He said he didn't, he didn't think he had the, the deftness in that particular moment to commit anything to tape. Joe, that's a wrap on the 2024 Winter Mailbag.

We did it. We did it. Thank you to everybody who submitted questions. Thank you to all the bad babies for meeting us in the club. Thank you, as always, to Steve Allman for producing this episode, Arjuna Ramgopal for his additional production work. And a reminder, send us hobsondragons at gmail.com Valentine's Day prompts, questions, comments, or concerns. Or Golden Trio stuff. Yeah. Send your Madam Web thoughts. Yes. Something, something Madam Web is the name of a future. That's a far episode.

Oh, man. And thank you to Jomia Denneran as well for his work on the social for this episode. We will see you Friday for the Tropes course on Golden Trios. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew, will be with you tomorrow, Wednesday, over on The Ringerverse for the third annual Black Heroes of Fandom draft. We will be back with you in a few days. Until then, House of R, like the sea, does not like to be restrained. ♪