The Achievement of the 'X-Men '97' Finale and Season 1
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Hello there, bad babies, midnight riders, beloved listeners of The Ringerverse. The Ringer is hosting its first

ever residency this summer in Los Angeles. The Ringer crew has taken over the El Rey Theater here in LA in June and July, and the Ringerverse family will be participating in two of those live shows. We will be doing Talk the Thrones Live on Tuesday, June 25th, and then the Ringerverse family will be teaming up for a Ringerverse Live event on Wednesday, July 17th.

Tickets are still available, and I have to ask, what are we even doing here? So you can go to theringer.com slash events for tickets and full details. We can't wait to see you this summer. Have you met others? I've met several. Many alone, scared, and they will be feared. Hated. Not if we guide them, help them cherish their gifts.

Help the world see all we share by being different. Alas, my new friend, in my experience, minds are far harder to bend than metal. Greetings and welcome to House of R, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin and joining me today, welcoming me to my mind, Malmas, what would it be?

Magnus Malmus? The master of malnutism. Oh, my stars and garters. It's Joanna Robinson. So much pain, my Valerie. So much death. It is an apt opening line from you, Joe, because you are unwell today. You are unwell. If anybody has clicked into this podcast and they're looking at the runtime and they're like,

Boy, did Steve like only upload one 18th of the file? What happened here? What is this runtime? We did Mallory have to leave suddenly to chase Halo through the streets of Los Angeles. Oh, God. Perish the thought. We're here for a very quick check in today because Joe, what has what has befallen you?

I hit my head earlier this week, and I have had a headache ever since, so it's been several days. And Molly was like, should we cancel the podcast? And I said, no. We got to give the people at least...

10 minutes, if not 20, of absolutely stellar top-tier brain injury content from me, Joanna Robinson, and a more lucid Malia Griffin. I don't know about that. I haven't hit my head on a tree branch in the last couple days, but I can't claim to be more lucid, I don't think. Steve and I, yeah, we tried to convince you to sit it out, take the day off, start our dark week a day early.

You said no. You grabbed that helm. You cradled it around your delicate, precious cranium. And you said, we will pod. We will pod for the good of pod kind. And so we're just going to like little Bobby B quick one today. Going to chat broadly about our feelings about the X-Men 97 finale and the X-Men 97 experience overall. Before we do that.

some quick programming reminders. Yes. We are dark next week. No House of R podcasts next week, barring something unforeseen and grave. Frankly, horrid. Grave.

We have been potting aplenty, though. So if you're dipping into this and you're like, well, what can I listen to next week when you guys aren't giving me new content? Catch up on the stuff we've done over the last few days because we had new the first Rings of Power trailer for season two this week, which we potted about on Tuesday. And then we also got a brand spanking new official trailer for House of the Dragons season two. We're a month away from Hot Deep.

And so we did a frame-by-frame, quite long, breakdown of that trailer. As usual, on the Hot D front, we did a separate, at the end of the pod, behind a distinct, clearly marked spoiler warning, book spoiler chat about that trailer as well. And then we also did a little mini...

Holy fuck! Game of Thrones ended five years ago. Where did the last half decade of our lives go? Look back at the Thrones finale and the legacy of Thrones. Do you think me re-watching the Thrones series finale exacerbated my head injury? And who has a better story than Joanne of the Broken? Oh my god. I'm fine. Everything's fine. Please don't save your concerned emails or tweets. I'm totally fine. Um...

But yeah, what else is going on, Mallory, in the larger ringer-verse? The ringer-verse crew, cranking next week. Cranking. Button mash. Coming to your feeds on Thursday over on the ringer-verse with a build the best video game remake roster pod. And then next Friday, the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, pew, will have their instant reaction to Furiosa. Joe and I will be podding about Furiosa after Memorial Day. So excited. We'll dive in into that. I know, I can't wait.

Simply cannot wait for that. I'm getting good reviews. It's making me really happy. And then, you know, we'll be on the eve of the accolade. We'll be mere weeks away at that point from hot D. It's Paula. Trades was nearly time in there somewhere. Slither in a sandworm to make his way onto the feed at some point before long, we'll be together in person potting like 19 hours a week together.

It's great. Can't wait. Your eyes are really wide. Is that from the head injury or thinking ahead to the summer? I think I only heard recently what the full extent of the summer plans were, and it was an eye-opening experience. And I'm really excited because I love you and I love spending time with you. It's a lot of stuff airing at once. Jo, whether it be at this very moment or in mid-June or any time after, perhaps listeners have been pulled across time like our

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The inbox will be on fire. I'm very excited for that. You guys are so thoughtful when it comes to House of the Dragon. It is why we have the RavenCon, the show in the first place. So hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. But I'm fine, so please don't send me any emails that are like, Joanna, are you dying? I'm fine. Totally fine. Here's the thing. Yeah. Before we dive into just our feelings and vibes, Chet. Yeah, I love a vibes chat. Why are we doing this today while you are...

suffering your affliction. Because we love the show. That's why, right? We're here today because we loved the show and genuinely just wanted to spend a few minutes celebrating that. Spoiler warning is, of course, for all of X-Men. All of X-Men 97. The finale. The last time we checked in, so we've done two prior pods. We did one through three. We did four through six. In theory, anything from the season could come up today, but we're mostly talking about the concluding installment.

The final episode and then I guess perhaps the tolerance is extinction three part. How do you feel about comic book

Spoilers. Think some comic book stuff could come up today? We'll maybe do some contextual if you don't want to hear this. Hit the... Yeah, some like look ahead sort of stuff. Think something about a certain character near and dear to your heart could potentially come up? It might. It may. Possibly. What are we even doing here if it doesn't? You know? Why would I even risk my brain and get on a microphone if not talk about this? Okay.

Suit up. My Joe, to me, tell me how you felt about the X-Men 97 finale, the last episode, episode 10, the three-part finale, however you want to take it, and how you felt about the season overall. I thought this was just an incredible season of television. Just like really, really incredible. We talked, as you mentioned, we checked in twice, twice.

around some phenomenal episodes, and I thought this finale stretch was really, really strong. I think there's, like, an episode here or there that wasn't as strong as another, looking at you, my darling Jubilee, and looking maybe at you, my beloved Rogue. But, like, other than that, like, this is a really, really strong season. And what's so interesting to me about...

How did you feel when Bastion said, what will you do, child? Slay me with the 4th of July? I laughed so hard, but then I also liked that she's like, as if I haven't heard that before. She's like, guess what? I know I'm useless. Like, you don't have to overstate it, I'm aware. I think it's interesting. Like, we live in this little content bubble where we're like, wow, X-Men 97 is the best thing that Marvel has put out in a very long time. I mean, we like Loki season two, but like, hmm.

But then, like, looking at the viewership numbers, you know, it's, like, behind, definitely behind Percy Jackson, definitely behind Echo in terms of, like, what Disney Plus has put out this year.

But it's always a tough, like, road for animation. Like, animation's always going to come in lower. A lot of CRs out there. Yeah, I'm not concerned about the CRs of the world. Just in general? Just in general, you're not concerned about the CRs of the world? Some days they'll watch Bluey, but not today. Today is not that day. It is not this day. Exactly. But I think they're doing, like, extraordinarily well for...

in general. And then right as you said, it's just like people are excited to talk about Marvel characters again coming off a really burnt and jaded era of Marvel on-screen entertainment. So that makes me really happy. I have, as I've already mentioned a few times, a very nostalgic, warm attachment to this particular venue of Marvel superheroes and X-Men animated series. And I'm

Again, we're just like echoing what everyone said, which is like they just went much harder and much... Nope. Phrasing. Anyway, than they needed to, right? It's just much more intense and thoughtful than, you know, a easy cash grab nostalgia bid could be. So I'm really impressed with the show. Yeah. What do you think, Meli Rubin? I agree. I thought this was sensational. I...

In real time, watching each episode really had a great time week to week. I looked forward to it dropping every week. But then going back into the episodes, prepping for each of our pods, combing through the lines of dialogue and the just stunningly beautiful prose and the heft of

and boldness of the ideas on display. I just thought this was sensational. It's comic book storytelling, the superhero storytelling, allegorical storytelling in its best form and best execution. Like what is on offer and on display here throughout this first season of X-Men 97 is not only why people love the X-Men, certainly and specifically in great X-Men stories, but what...

It's a reminder of how powerful and poignant fantasy or genre storytelling can be. Like how much seeing these found family, magical, mystical tales can unlock for us about our own

And I thought that the particular challenge inside of X-Men 97, this is always a challenge in any kind of like ensemble story, but the number of characters in the mix on X-Men 97 is wild. Like if you just pan back for a second and think not only of our, our X-Men and our pals who are making their way at some point in or out of the mansion, but like, just think about the villain set across the season for a minute, like,

the context of actually consuming the show, if you said to somebody or you saw a list of like, here are all of the different, we're going to have some time with Gyrick, we're going to have some time with Trask, the master mold is going to be here, right? We're going to battle Sentinels. We're definitely going to spend a lot of time building up Mr. Sinister as the main villain and then only later reveal that it's actually Bastion. Theo James

Welcome to the party. In the mix, pulling the strings. And by the way, Magneto will, despite a riveting run...

in league and cahoots with our heroes, wind up opposed to them after all in a crucial stretch. Only to swing back. Only to then. That is like the elements at play there feels like it would be impossible to smoothly execute. Yeah. And you missed, by the way, Eric will spend an episode in his bikini briefs being like suspended in the air. You forgot that crucial part. It did happen. Being shaved by Bastion.

As Dr. Cooper looks on, I didn't know. It's just amazing to be able to execute this. I remember like one of the things that we talked about at the very beginning of the series was, okay, interesting choice to not start with, say, a Wolverine specific episode to like make us wait for it. Okay, how long will they keep Charles out on the sidelines before bringing him back into the mix? And obviously Charles is like very central to events in the back third of the season.

But we never get the standalone Wolverine episode. And you know what? I love that. That was not only okay, but great. It was bold. And they set up for like a really interesting Wolverine story in season two. This is the other thing, like the comp to other recent, I think, Marvel TV experiments specifically, but just in general.

in this IP era where everything is about setting up the next season or setting up the next spinoff or how will this connect to a larger universe? When is Harry Styles coming back to the MCU? Is that your question? Exactly. That is always my question, as you know. But there aren't, I don't think there are too many other

that we could hold up on par with this that did just as good of a job of setting up what comes next and of giving us hope for the future of telling what felt like a fully realized story in its own first season because there's no trade-off. Well, I think part of that is... Yeah, I think part of that is...

We know that season two is already written and deep into production. So it's not like, is there going to be a second season of X-Men 97? Am I watching a bunch of setup without the promise that they'll pay it off or anything like that? Am I ever going to find out what's going to happen to

our heroes flown across time and space. Or will it swing the other way in so many stories where it's like, oh, well, we've got to set up what's next at the expense of maybe feeling like we properly concluded this version of the story. I think what works in X-Men 97's favor in that regard is, and something we identified from the jump, which is

The main criticism I've seen of this series, which is that it's going too fast, burning through comic book storylines. And like we had, we pointed that out as something we kind of liked, at least about the first chunk of episodes we talked about, or just sort of like, wow, they're just like flying. This is amazing. Um,

With only 10 episodes in the season, the amount of, you know, you already listed out the dizzying amount of villains. And I don't mean dizzying just because I hit my head on a tree branch early this week. But, like, the, you know, the number of villains, the number of characters, the number of, like,

really fun comic book storylines that they've just like absolutely churned through. The critique I've seen from some people is like, either they feel like it's going too fast, so they don't feel emotionally connected to the characters. That's not a problem that I'm having, but okay. Or we did get an email from a listener about an essay that was in Entertainment Weekly, and I'm sorry I don't have it in front of me. Let's blame the tree branch. But it was about sort of if X-Men 97 breaks,

through so much comic book content at this clip, what content will be left for the live action X-Men when they come to the MCU? Are we sort of greedily slurping up too many good stories? Okay. I have two comments. One, I just want to commend you for your commitment to saying slurp or slurping on every pod recently. Thank you. Because it's... They're in the monoculture. Three or four in a row. I don't know.

And I don't see any sign of you ceasing this. Nor should you. So that's just a thing I wanted to observe. When you stop saying brew, I'll stop saying slurp. Never. Never. Okay. I'm not sure exactly how to articulate this, but I understand why that would be a thought that people had and a concern that people had. I am not worried about it. I think in part because this season, and I mean this as a sincere compliment, but

I thought actively flouted that consideration throughout just the number of different, not only to your point, like of the pacing and the, the stretch of story and different comic strands that we went through this season, but even things like the way that other characters are incorporated. Anytime cap or, or,

T'Chaka, or the Avenger cameos in the finale. Say their names. Cloak and Dagger. Just forgive me. Cloak and Dagger. Every time anybody appeared in the story, whether it was a quick cameo or...

a larger inclusion into the plot, there was just this sense, like it almost felt like an active sense of we will not be bound by this concern of what it might mean to include this figure here. What sort of bearing will that have? Now, that's obviously a little bit different from saying if you do Apocalypse or you do Bastion or you do XYZ, you do...

E for extinction, et cetera, right? You do Genosha. Like, you're adapting arcs, fabled arcs, and then what arcs are left? Are you going to do a certain arc in the animated verse and then four years later do that exact arc with that exact villain in a movie, in the live action? I feel like the answer would be yes. When would X-Men ever do that? When would they ever just do Dark Phoenix over and over and over and over and over again? Maybe that's alarming, but I don't know. It made me feel good in a way. Like, they didn't feel...

It didn't feel like for a second the people who were making this season of TV had been told or made to feel limited or constrained by what might happen with the characters later. And I think that that's part of what can go really wrong with these sprawling connected universes is that you can't tell the story you want to tell because you have to think about what movie someone else might make in seven years. You're so locked in. I so agree. I think it's been so liberating to watch this show that is...

both set in the 90s and in a different multiverse than the MCU that we've been watching. And so Cap can show up in the 90s and we don't have to be like, well, but what does that mean for the time? Because it doesn't matter because this is a completely different sandbox that we're playing in. And I remember- America's Top Cop, absolutely iconic, iconic line.

I remember talking to all the various MCU Disney Plus showrunners and when they would tell me that they were told they couldn't use this character or they couldn't use this character, but they weren't even told why. So it's not just you're hemmed in by whatever the MCU is doing elsewhere. You don't even get to know what that other thing is. And so the fact that Bo DeMayo and his...

His crew were just free to play in this world that they obviously knew incredibly well and obviously loved dearly. That felt liberating after... And we talked about this so much with the MCU, the way that its initial strength, which is that interconnectedness, has become a weakness for it. And there are many different ways that they can...

get out of that corner they pan themselves into through multiversal storytelling or Secret Wars or whatever they decide to do. But right now, this is just such refreshing counter-programming to that. Yeah, absolutely. It was really exciting to watch that and to feel that so consistently throughout. And it's like it still gave me hope for what was to come because it was this reminder of how quickly you can

that jolt of energy and euphoria and possibility back into your fictional universe and how quickly you can restore that faith in your audience and how quickly you can encourage people to opt back in. And also, this is another thing we chat about a lot with comic book storytelling. This was something that I thought Jason always used to do a great job of reminding people is like, you can find a new entry point, right? It can feel so burdensome and like it has amassed to a point like how could you ever make your way in? How? It's just so intimidating and so daunting and like,

even at the beginning of X-Men 97, like, even just in my life and your life, like, I was getting texts from friends, can I watch this if I haven't seen the original animated series or can I watch this if I haven't seen it since I was a kid? And it's like, I think over the course of this season, it felt like more people were saying, I'm just going to, it seems like people really like this. I'm going to give this a try. And so then maybe this becomes then a new springboard into enthusiasm for fans. I think that's so true, but, like, I want to yes and Jay's great point because I agree with him, but also it seems

The storytellers are then beholden to write a story that doesn't feel like it has a barrier of entry. And we talked about this a lot when we talked about Ahsoka, where I could feel them trying, but not quite getting there with a lot of the audience where they felt like they had to know so much. Or when MCU puts out a new Disney Plus TV show and they have to release a bunch of little videos on Disney Plus of previously on this character's arc. And so I think...

There is, and comic book storytelling has sort of wrestled with how to do this, be it like an asterisk that leads you to another issue or, you know, someone just dropping some cash exposition or something like that. Like, comic book storytellers have been doing this for decades. But, you know, something this show did so well, I think...

I walk into this having seen all of X-Men, the animated series. But I know people who walked in having seen none and they were also immediately invested in those characters. So it's an opportunity that comic book storytelling has, but not something that the storytellers have always delivered on, but certainly they delivered on here. Yeah, absolutely. And should be praised for that. I love it. Now they got

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maybe quick hit. We didn't plan this. You don't know what I'm about to say. We'll keep it very light, very cash, not even true superlatives, but just kind of hit a few buckets like favorite episode, favorite character, favorite arc, et cetera. Let's just, maybe that'll be a way for us to kind of very quickly hit some of, hit some of the things that we enjoyed. You can pick anything. You can pick nothing. That's fine too.

who was the character, Joe, this season who you enjoyed watching the most? Which character did you enjoy spending time with? This is easy. I mean, it's not Gambit. We'll talk about Gambit, but it's Magneto. Like, this is the Magneto season. Without question. Like, seriously, without question. He has the previously on in this episode, you know, like, and they've sort of used that to mark whose episode it is. Um,

Um, when we went over on trial by content, when we did the sort of like, uh, best X man of all time debate, which Wolverine won easily, you should have, it's okay. Different episode from when, um, you guys, uh, slandered Rogue One. Different episode. Just to, uh, gave a fair and balanced critique of Rogue One. Yes. Um, a movie that has a lot of going for it. Um,

We were all fighting over who gets Magneto, which is not something I necessarily would have said before. I mean, as much as I love Ian McKellen's performance and Michael Fassbender's performance and his various storylines in the comics, this season just really underlined for us. And it's no coincidence that Beau DeMeo has said on Twitter, like,

Magneto is me. I am Magneto. You feel it in every line of dialogue. Yeah. Like that he is the point of view character of the season. Yeah. So it's absolutely Magneto's season. And I have to imagine as long as they're using both scripts, which is what season two is likely to be, it will be Magneto's series is my guess. Yeah.

And then we'll see what happens after that. What a frankly thrilling prospect for our future television consumption. Sensational voice performance from Matthew Watterson as Magnus as well. I mean, just the amount of episode...

monologues and creeds that Magneto delivers. And one of the things that I, obviously Magneto is my pick as well for favorite character of the season. And the character who I just found the most like plentiful

to watch because it was so entertaining and riveting, but it was just the most like thought provoking also. I mean, everything that Magneto says, whether it makes you feel like complicit and uncomfortable with the way you find yourself leaning toward the screen to listen or the way that you interrogate and try to critique

his perspective, like the way that you were moving across a moral and philosophical and almost existential spectrum as you listen to him talk. And of course that experience is then like the experience that you're having as a viewer is like reflecting the experience that the characters in the screen are having around him. Like when he shows up to basically recruit the X-Men in front of Charles, telling Charles to shut up was so funny to me. I was like cracking up. But the thing that I loved so much was

First of all, the way that all of Eric's speeches and ideas build and compound over the course of the season, but also the way that other characters, including characters who, while they may not necessarily play a central role in the story or sweep us up in their quest quite to that, obviously nowhere near the extent, like I'm thinking of a character like Dr. Cooper, people who are actively opposed to him over the course of the series end up being the ones who...

parrot his wisdom. A master of magnetism. Magneto was right. He's always recruiting. He's always recruiting. The other side of that is the other aspect of X-Men that these writers really understand, which is the soap opera side. So you have Magneto, this like mythological figure, giving these grandiose speeches and monologues and held up as a leader and swinging from hero to villain and all these things that he's doing. And then he's also a man who's like,

In love or lust with someone, like, has this sort of, like, human frailty want. I want something, and it's not world domination, and it's not to lead the X-Men and prove something to Charles, and it's not this or that. The other thing is, like, I want Ro- I mean, like, we could talk about Erica Charles in this finale as well. Like, that's its own thing. But, like, giving your character a want, which is something that this season just knocked out of the park. Everybody wants-

Everybody wants some to title a baseball movie. And like often it has to do with like love and sex in the X-Men universe. But like. Acceptance. Yeah. Acceptance in its many forms. Family. Found family. So on that front, the rogue front and the found family front.

I loved that the thing that sparks like this is a violation moment when we're in, you love a mind palace, Joanna. I love psychic penetration. You love psychic penetration? You love psychic penetration. You love it at Husha Vista, you hate at Crevice, and you love.

Psychic penetration. Here's what I love that happened yesterday. Mallory and I had not seen the finale yet because it was a long week. And then I watched it before Mallory did, and I texted Mallory and Steve, did Eric just say psychic penetration? And Mallory lacked the context. I forgot to give her the context of what I was talking about because I was just literally live texting about the finale. And Mallory had no idea until she watched the finale later. And then she was like, oh, that's what Joanna was talking about. Like more than half a

day later. I was like, could someone in our life say this somewhere? What's this? Viking penetration? Wild. Interesting. Interesting. Great stuff. Great stuff. The

moment when Rogue is shouting out and the choppy and the cold waters and that like breach into all of the different aspects of Eric's trauma and what it means for Charles to be in his mind. Like this is a violation. But like the other thing, I mean, I loved those sequences across the final episode between Charles and Eric. I just thought they were exceptional. It's probably my favorite part of the entire season. A thing that struck me

was like in the finale, one of the things that we hear, actually this was in, so this was in episode nine. This was in the second part of the three-part finale, not episode 10. But when Magneto, you know, brings the asteroid to the mansion and he says, I promised a boy a future free of fear only to watch his frightened eyes be vaporized in his tiny skull because he believed me.

In the dream, you had me sell. That's what he says to Charles. You had me sell. And it really like struck me. It reminded me so much of our conversation in an earlier pod about do not make me let you down. And these like patterns

passive framings of his threats and the way that he is justifying his actions, not only through the active charge of what he believes is right and necessary, but the blame and culpability of the people around him who he thinks have failed and thus sparked, forced him to behave this way. It's just such a rich aspect of his character. Yeah.

Were you reminded at all? So Charles and Eric in the bar is like straight from the pages of the comics. So that's like a, you know, they're just reenacting something that loosely reenacting something that happened in the comics. But I was reminded not to like get out your bingo cards and check off the box that says Joanna talks about lost. But I was reminded that.

Of, you know, Christian Shepard and Sawyer in the bar and these just like these like sort of broken men finding this moment of I see you, you see me. You know, this one was much more, the X-Men version was much more sexually charged, but like, like, I don't know, to like...

There's something about the ice rattling in Magneto's glass, a season-long motif that I found just always makes me think of Christian Shepard. I love that. I love that comp. I had another... I wrote down in my notes at another point, lost? And it was actually a Bastion thing when he says, you call yourselves a team, a family, but a family that can't save itself merely works together to die alone. I was like, does Bastion watch Lost live together, die alone? It feels...

I feel like Bo De Mayo was just last. Yeah. There were a few. Also, we got like a real Jamie Lannister Magneto moment when he literally said, there is no one like me. Wow.

after which any of our favorite shows on our minds here, after which Charles says like the most Mallory Rubin thing I've ever heard in my life. Right. The X-Men and I may not resemble each other, but we are still family. We had a dream, a dream that made us a family. And like that dream, any family worth having is worth fighting for. What do you fight for? We talked about this a lot. We talked about like rings of power, um,

You know, this idea of like, what is the thing you're defending? What is the thing worth preserving and protecting? How do you build your fellowship? Yeah. And it's not just like, it can't just be like an abstract, we have to save the world. It has to be something like much more human, for lack of a better word, no offense to the mutants, that we at home, watching at home can understand and identify, you know? And I loved the, that's part of what I loved so much about the

intimacy of the Charles Eric sequences. Psychic penetration. The psychic penetration in the conclusion of the series, of the season, I should say. Charles saying, but we never abandoned each other. The only ones who can break our heart are those kept in it. One of the things we love to talk about is how the people who can hurt you the most are the ones who kill you the most. They know how to wound you and then can you push through that and make your way to the other side? Yeah.

And like the tenderness then, I mean, we know that the thing that is on the line is not only the fate of the world, but the psychic shattering of their respective minds. If this doesn't go right, the way that Charles is enveloping him and holding him and saying, I have you, I'll always have you, even if I'm pulled under too. I mean, it's just such an intense and powerful relationship. So I was going to ask you also if you had a favorite

among a duo in addition to a favorite individual character across either the finale or the season. I think because of how much I loved those sequences with Charles and Eric, that would be my pick, even though there are a ton of other great candidates. Or you want to pick Scott and Cable? Well, can I slightly cheat and do a trio and say Gene and Scott and Cable? Because like the way that they made me care. Yeah, the eye scene. But

But even before that, when they were doing, like, the whole, like, basically bat family sequence, like, two episodes prior, I was like, I'm so invested in the Summers family again. And I did not start the season that way. But, like, that—their connection when Cable calls Jean his mom in the finale, like, it—

And he calls them his folks. It really worked on me. Really, really worked on me. So yeah, their goodbye scene with taking off Scott's visor, all of that, it just really, because it not only sells me on like them as parents or this family unit or Nathan as like a son who just is heartbroken that he had to grow up without his parents, but Scott and Jean as a couple, as people in love with each other.

Especially when you compare it to the removing Scott's visor scene in X-Men live action films and how poorly that was executed. It's like, this should be one of the most incredibly powerful moments. And it is. And then we cut to corporeal Scott just visor off, blasting. Yeah, exactly. It's just incredible. I love, too, one of the things that...

you were chatting about on our Thrones pod yesterday was when sometimes in a story we can shift from poignant, rewarding callbacks into, oh, you're just

saying your own lines again and having your own characters quote your own show. But like, this was an example, this visor-removing moment of such a poignant callback because it makes us think, of course, of that moment from episode five when we're cutting back and forth between Gene and Scott sharing their memories of like their formative experiences with each other. And we could see each other's eyes. They anchored me, focused me. His eyes made me stay. And like in episode five when we heard that, things are falling apart for them and you understood

not only the literal significance of the power on display and what it would mean to be able to share that with each other in a way that you just could not with other people, but then thematically, emotionally, what it means. Like, it is this sacred thing that cannot be understood by other people or experienced by other people. And so to bring Nathan into that...

It's a representation in a very literal sense of what their family is and what they can share with each other that they can't share with other people. So I thought that was really cool too. To jump ahead, just because we're talking about the Summers family for a second, comic spoiler hit fast forward a couple of times. If you don't want to hear this, this is going to be one of the comic spoiler sections. You don't want to hear this hit fast forward, let's say two to three times just to be safe starting now. Okay. So,

at the end, when everybody moves across time, some people go to the past, some people go to the future. Scott and Jean are in the future. And...

Clan Ascani, Mother Ascani comes out. So Rachel Summers. Yeah, their daughter. This is their, yeah, the alt-future version from alt-Scott Jean. So this is like, and they're the only two members of, and then Nathan comes out as well. They're the only two members of the Vanished X-Men who ended up in this period of time, at least that we know of. So that kind of further amplifies that too, that they wound up in a space very much defined by their family and members of their family across the,

the multiverse and then everybody else ends up with Apocalypse. If Votameo has like talked about where some of the other characters are, if he's said that on Twitter, does that feel like a spoiler to you or does that feel like kosher to talk about?

I'll just say this. I do think it's significant that that's all the people we see in the future. Yeah. That we're just like, wow, the whole Summers gang is here. Here we go. Yes, yes, yes. Did you have, before we talk about who wound up in the past and then what the stinger is and what we're setting up there for the next season, did you have a favorite episode this season? I'm assuming that I know the answer. Yeah, it's Remember It. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to think about that episode of television forever, no matter what happens in the stinger or next season or whatever, like that episode of television impacted me in a way that I can't, I fully, I, I'm supposed to articulate it for a living and I just don't think I can. Um, I'm going to think about it forever. And it's not just what happens at the end of that episode, but like,

You know, it's tempting to pick, like, favorite duo moment. It's tempting to pick, you know, Rogue and Gambit's breakup scene. I think that's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen from both of those characters. And, you know, again, when you give us a bunch of characters, when you give us Magneto and Rogue and Gambit, and we are emotionally invested in all of them getting what they want and all of them getting what they want...

cannot happen unless they want to listen to our Challengers Thrupple episode and get back to us. But like, so we're rooting for all of them.

And their wants and needs are contradictory. That is just some of the juiciest stuff of all time. And then not to mention, you know, what Gambit does at the end of that episode and what Magneto says at the end of that episode and how, and then what Rogue says. I mean, it's just, you know, and throughout everything Nightcrawler says and throughout everything, frankly, Emma Frost says, you know, it's just like, it's an exquisite episode of television that hits everyone.

every box that I could possibly hope for. What was your emotional response in the finale to Rogue attacking Bastion and saying his name was Gambit? Oh my god! When she was just like... I thought of you so strongly. When she Sonic clapped him, when she was just punching him through space, I was just like... It was in heaven. I loved it. That's so good. I thought it was so great. You mentioned Kurt. I just want to shout out our dude who had some...

absolute bars in the back half of this season. Like, some incredible, deeply moving, resonant lines. Actually, a lot of characters had quotes that I think will stand the test of time. One of the things I loved about this show, actually, is that someone will say something, and you're like, this is one of the most...

deeply profound things that I've ever heard. Two seconds later, somebody will challenge the idea, but not in a way that mitigates how you felt about it two seconds prior. Like, in episode seven, Logan is talking about Rogue because they're at Gambit's funeral, and they're like, where's Rogue? And Logan is like, grief's a lonely war. And I was like, this is just...

Like, poetry. Grief's a lonely war. And then that idea is kind of immediate. There's a follow-up and a conversation, but I'm like, okay, I have now the intellectual inside of the story rigor of interrogating that idea and what that means, if it's true, why it doesn't have to be. But also just the heft that those four words bring you when you hear them is kind of incredible. And then Kurt, the scene when Kurt and Jean are talking in part one of the finale about memory...

It's gorgeous. Memories are merely dim images echoing with emotion. Does it matter if you heard his first cries, if you remember how it felt to hear them? Like this is an idea we talk about a lot. It's like a version of, of course it is happening inside your head. And some of the other things that we talk about in like blood is blood. Family is a choice. It's obviously not just Charles who is articulating over the course of the season, the found family idea. It, it,

It just gets back to that ensemble discussion we were having earlier. Like, make the space for even characters who don't have a standalone episode or who don't even really have...

like true plot driving arcs to have moments of consequence. We get to hear Nightcrawler talk about Mystique and talk about what it meant for him and Rogue to choose to accept and support each other. Like there was room and space somehow for all of that, for all of the characters. Incredible. I think to an even lesser degree because Nightcrawler is a hugely popular X-Men character and like was sort of brought in to sort of fill the space that Gambit left in the team in the back half of the season. Yeah.

But even more so, I think that example of what you're talking about is someone like Morph, who is there often for comic books.

little stuff to do in this season of television is there for comic relief really fun visual gags of like deep cut characters for you know the comic book nerds at home great love that but then like really enjoyed morph smash when morph was proof layhawk yeah but then like his longing for logan which is manifested in this finale cop like prop like

Pops up a few times in the season. And then his trauma from Sinister, you know, which is like, that's maybe you need a little bit more backstory to like fully grok. But like, you know, there is room for that. I would say I actually think the character that got the shortest shrift this season, and I'm not that mad about it because I'm sure that they will find plenty of space for him in season two, is Beast. Beast is a character that I love.

And Beast got some great lines, is, like, referencing the Iliad, like, doing great stuff. But, like, you know, other than, you know, the burgeoning relationship or whatever, I'm not... I'm excited to see what more they do with that character. Yeah, the very active challenge...

and too Trish. Perhaps the professor's vision for the future was too nearsighted and begging for your tolerance was her first mistake. Yeah. Because that was in episode seven and it felt like we were primed for a larger showcase for Beast in the final episodes. But I think you had said maybe actually in our first pod as we were starting to anticipate, okay, well, where would the maybe single character episodes go? That just wasn't going to be a single character focus in the final three period because it would be this...

ensemble joint story. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to a Beast-centric arc in season two as well. You already cited this line, but the line of the only ones who can break our hearts are those kept in it rivals, you know, what is grief but not love persevering? Like, it is an all-timer. I'm going to be thinking about that line. That line is going to help me understand...

how I care about people. Yeah, exactly. From an animated superhero television show. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Do you want to talk about Gambit for a second or should we talk? Of course. We're going to talk about The Stinger. Let's talk.

about the stinger. Make sure you watched it. I was talking to a friend of mine and he's like, oh wait, was there a mid-credits I missed? That's why I asked you. I mean, I should know better that you would, of course, watch through the credits. But I was talking to somebody and he's like, did I miss something? I was like, oh yeah, you gotta go watch the mid-credits stinger. Okay, so Joe, describe the mid-credits stinger where we see gambits, charred

queen card in Apocalypse's hand. Did you not just describe it? Take me through your... Well, okay, describe your emotional journey.

And play out the string on where you think we're going and issue our contextual spoiler warning when you do so. Okay, so we know that the team has been divided across time, that Nightcrawler Charles, Eric Rogue, and Beast are in 3000 BC. That's got Jean and Nathan, a version of Nathan, and perhaps some other people are in 3960 AD. Okay.

And we know from Forge's wall that, like, you know, Roberto and Jubilee are a wall and, like, a couple other things are happening. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are off planet, question mark? Anyway, but we meet Apocalypse in the past in 3000 BC. Yeah.

sort of in his origin story. And then we meet... Sabanar, yeah. And we see Apocalypse in the rubble of Genosha pulling out the playing card and saying, you know, so much pain in my children, so much death. And so here's the spoiler warning for people from Comics Canon, which is that in Comics Canon...

Gambit has canonically become one of Apocalypse's horsemen, specifically death. And so this possibility that Apocalypse will resurrect Gambit and make him death, as was hinted at earlier in the season when Charles had the vision of

Gambit and his beautiful, handsome Cajun face turns into a skeleton. So Gambit will likely return as death. And as I texted to Mallory and to Dave Gonzalez and to anyone else who would listen in, they're going to Winter Soldier Gambit. And that's going to... You know how well the Winter Soldier storyline works on me. If Gambit shows up,

And Rogue is like, Bucky? You know what I mean? It's going to be devastating because he's going to show up as a hollowed out version of himself. And it's going to be devastating. Well, I wouldn't say you're my mission at any point. You're my gumbo. Sure. Something like that. And then...

More comics canon spoiler warning to say that if we're filling out the roster of the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse, which is death, famine, war, and pestilence, then Logan in his...

an adamantium form has been drafted by apocalypse. I'll give you your adamantium back. Come join me. And there's other mitigating factors, but like the idea that like, I mean, in that storyline, Logan was also death. So perhaps Logan will port over to like war given his history as a soldier, like who's to say, but you know, and like which, who else,

Who else might Apocalypse find in the rubble of Genosha? Madeline Pryor, Emma Frost. Like, who else might he bring up to be part of the team? Which other mutants might be vulnerable to being drafted into this team of villainy? But what all that means, all that's to say, not just that, like, okay, Gambit's coming back. Joanna, go back in time and tell yourself that you were right, of course. They always come back in comics. Magneto was right. Jo was right.

Well, Jo was wrong, but she should have listened to the part of herself that was right. So Gamma's coming back. That means a lot. But what I'm hopeful for, as much as I didn't mind the speed through of the storylines in season one, I hope this apocalypse and the horseman arc is a season long.

arc or at least half a season arc or something like that. I don't want... Storm got her powers back in the span of three episodes. I don't want Gambit to come back as death and then be reconstituted within a couple episodes. I need that to be... I need the apocalypse story to be a season-long arc or at least half a season. That would be my hope. Those scripts are already written, so my hopes don't matter. But I think that is...

juicier storytelling to make us wait. Yeah. My guess is that it will be the entire season. I hope so. And maybe we have some side quests here and there. You know, episode three, we go deal with another, yeah, little threat for a minute. Episode six, et cetera. But if, like, they made us wait for a Wolverine episode and ultimately Logan's episode is the recruitment to Apocalypse, like, that is... That's incredible. On the war front, too, it's like... I mean, obviously...

Logan is often referencing his history and battle and war and pain, but like the last thing we hear before, before Eric rips the adamantium out of him, Adam did like, but he was like, should the guy on his body be going to fight Magneto? And then immediately like pulled out of his body.

Been in a lot of wars, Bub the Brave always die first. Like, that just feels like such a harbinger. Obviously, he's attempting to murder Magneto as he's saying that, but to spin that and flip that and to send us into this...

We should also say that canonically, without his adamantium, Logan has gone like feral, like feral Wolverine. So is that a storyline we're going to get? Neil and Dave were talking to me about this on Child by Content, and they were teasing me because they were like, do you think he's going to come back with a wolf brain? Just like you wanted for Jon Snow, Joanna? Are you finally going to get your wolf brain story? I was like, maybe. Who knows? As you go, I am a huge proponent of the...

John should have come back with Wolfbrain. Yeah. Of the Wolfbrain. I mean, Joe still could happen because as you know, in book land. I know. We're still waiting. George. Who knows? The winter wins. We're waiting. Anything else? Anything else on episode 10? Anything else on Tolerance is Extinction parts one, two, three. Anything else on the first season overall? Any other thoughts that you want to share?

Just the last thing I want to say before we go on this finale is you already shouted out Theo James. I just thought Theo James was like absolutely incredible in this voice performance as Bastion. Just so good. Unbelievable. And then the choral version of the X-Men theme that plays. That was haunting. Yeah. Was absolutely what a glorious choice. Fine tingling. Yeah. How about you? Fantastic. No, I think we did it. I can't wait for season two. I can't wait. Actually, yeah, I do have one more thing to say.

Thank you. You're welcome. I'm thrilled that our beloved colleague and genuinely one of my closest friends in the world,

Sean Fantasy loved X-Men 97. I think that's great. Sean quote tweeted, went back to the 2023 House of R hype draft tweet of the graphic, went back and quote tweeted it last night and said, please to like, I'm paraphrasing, please to announce that I have retroactively won the 2023 House of R hype draft. Now, I do just feel...

Listen, Sean loving X-Men 97 and loving the House of Our Hype draft. This is great. This is all good news. Purely good news. I do just feel compelled to mention, though. Just let him have it. No? That I'm the one who drafted X-Men 97 in the year in which it actually aired. I'm just going to throw that out there. That's all. Should we also mention that Sean asked us if he can watch Rings of Power Season 2? No.

Dude, us getting Sean to Middle Earth this year is going to be like, it's peak life goals stuff. I mean, Sean loves Lord of the Rings. It's going to be wonderful to share rings of power with him. Great. Can't wait. We did it. Can't wait. Just going to start texting him every day. It is a power and see if that builds or diminishes his hype. We'll find out. Yeah. We'll find out. Okay. Go rest that beautiful brain of yours. Thanks. I love you. Just want you to be safe and healthy and happy and whole. Who let all these cartoon birds in here?

All right. Thank yous. Some thank yous to go around. I'm going to say thank you to you, Joe. You're a champion. Every now and then I'm like, I woke up. I don't feel well. I'll see you in like four days. And today you're like, I'm concussed. I'll be there. So ill-advised, though it may be, thanks to you for being a fucking champion. Thank you to Steve Allman for producing this episode. And the...

many hours of other podcasts that we did this week. Thank you to Arjuna Ramgopal for his additional production work on this episode. And thank you to Jomi Adinaron for his work on the social for this episode. We will be back, not next week, but the week after. Tuesday, May 28th. That's the plan for a Furiosa deep dive. I mean, it's nonstop action from there.

The ringer verse will keep you entertained next week. Button mash on Thursday, midnight boys on Friday. Until then, our name is House of R. Remember it.