‘The Acolyte’ Episode 6 Deep Dive
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Welcome to Naughty Yotta Island. This season on Naughty Yotta Island. When we were new, they spoiled me. They even gave me a phone. But then, it's like I didn't exist. Don't take Yotta Yotta from your wireless carrier. Now with Metro, get that new customer feeling again and again. Introducing MetroFlex. Free 5G phones when you join, same deals as new customers when you stay. Only at Metro by T-Mobile.

Just bring your number and ID and sign up for an eligible plan. After 12 months, trade in and get our best deals on select devices. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. It's that time of year, so spread more joy with The Home Depot's giant holiday decor. Go big this holiday season with larger-than-life decor that really hits home. Be like my wife. She'll just go to Home Depot to see what they got cooking. She's always ready to plan for the holidays. Maybe that's a tree.

You can put together in a few clicks like the Grand Duchess. That sounds great. Or a huge eight foot towering Santa with poseable arms that a flame effect lantern that might be in front of my house or an eight and a half foot towering reindeer with illuminated flashing bells. That's the holiday spirit at the Home Depot. Shop in store online now at homedepot.com. The Jedi teach there's only one way to access the force. And if you don't do it their way, it fades. But there is another way.

Below the surface of consciousness are powerful emotions. Anger, fear, loss, desire. That's the path to the dark side. Semantics.

Hello and welcome to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, Mallory, can I offer you a well-seasoned bowl of soup and a trip to the dark side? It's Mallory Rubin. Hey, Mall, how are you doing? Jo, if you're not going to join me, I'd like to put my clothes back on. No, we like you just as you are. Thank you so much. Hello.

Hello. We're here on the not-so-newish house of our feed. Yeah. To talk to you. No longer new. To talk to you today. Yeah. About a masterpiece of television that we're calling Acolyte Episode 6. I am overjoyed to have this opportunity to talk to you about this episode. Mallory Rubin, how are you feeling?

I'm thrilled to be here with you as always. Great. We're mere hours away from the holiday. Yes. Cramming in one more pod. It's been mere hours since we were last here for many, many hours. Not last week. Nope. But I am thrilled to talk to you about The Strangers.

This episode is called Teach Corrupt. Yeah. Teach slash corrupt. Yeah. I do want to let people know, it has been less than 24 hours since we were last here talking for a very long time about House of the Dragon. And when I got home, I texted you. I said, my brain is oatmeal. Yeah. A separate text. Oatmeal. And you texted me and you said, have you started watching the Akala yet? I have a bomb for you. Mm-hmm.

Manny shirtless. And I said, not just shirtless. Yeah. Oh, no. I texted you in the middle of the scene. So then I got to follow up with pantless. Yeah. Extraordinary stuff. Before we get into that extraordinary moment in fandom. Yes.

Some programming reminders. Please. Listen, I don't know if you know this, but we're covering House of the Dragon a plenty over here. We do it on Talk the Thrones. Yes. That airs when? The minute. The moment. A new episode is over on Sunday. Yes. You can listen to us or watch us do Talk the Thrones with Chris Ryan. Yeah. On Tuesdays, we do a deep, deep, deep, deep lengthy dive.

On each new episode of House of the Dragon. A long one. A long one. Over on the Midnight Boys, pew pew! Pew pew! They're also covering House of the Dragon. They're also covering Acolyte. They're also covering The Boys. Yeah. And shout out Butt Mesh. Yes. It's covering something called Elden Ring. I don't know what that is. And also...

You know what Elden Ring is. Vaguely. Genuinely, very vaguely. And also covering the first half of the year in games. That's right. The best games in the first half of the year. That's right. That's a lot. That's a lot. How do folks keep track of all that? My recommendations are simple. Here they are. Follow the pods. Follow the House of R, follow the Ringiverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Follow the new Ringerverse YouTube channel. Hit that subscribe button right after you hit the follow button on the podcast feed. And the bell for notifications. Notification bell. Give us the five stars, all of it. Then while you're at it, your phone's in your hand, you're at your computer.

Follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. The Ringerverse is on Twitter. Yeah. Instagram. Yes. TikTok. Correct. Then you're like, all right, I followed the pod. I subscribed to the YouTube channel. I followed the Ringerverse on the social media platform of my choosing, but my phone is still in my hand. I'm still on my computer. What do I do now? Send us an email. Hobbitsanddragonsatgmail.com. And then you can be featured in one of our little animated Ravencaws that flies across the screen. For those who watch this podcast.

That could be you. I mean, thank you so much for covering all of that. Also, it was my pleasure. What if folks want to be with us instead of just listening to us or watching this on a video? Yeah.

They can join us. We're going to do a live show. Yeah. Yes. July 17th. Right here in Los Angeles. At the El Rey Theater. Correct. At 8 p.m. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Doors at 7. Okay. Shows at 8. We'll be with the Midnight Boys. Yes. We're your first fam. We'll be together. Yeah, it's going to be a party. It's going to be wonderful. Can't wait. Get your tickets now. Join us. Okay. Spoilers. Yeah. All of Star Wars? Anything that's ever happened in a galaxy far, far away.

Yeah. What about episode seven and eight of The Acolyte? Have we seen it? Can we talk about it? Haven't seen it. Don't know anything that's going to happen. We will speculate. Speculate freely. We will theorize. Freely. Well, when you're speculating freely, we know nothing. Theory corner, thirst corner, always. But we know nothing. So glad you brought up thirst corner. Like Jon Snow. Okay. Yeah. Did Jon tell you that he made you a new animation? Oh, I saw the new animation. Wonderful stuff from Jon. Thirst corner is going to have its own little visual this week, and it is a masterpiece. It's

I was going to ask you if you had seen it. Very special. Quick facts about teach slash corrupt this episode. We're back to the slash form of...

just in time for some slash fiction, if you prefer, uh, written by Leslie Hedlund and Jocelyn bio. Uh, Jocelyn is a playwright. Uh, she's got a really impressive sort of CV full of wonderful theater that she's written, uh, directed by Hanel Cool Pepper, uh, who's worked on, it's just like a workman TV directors worked on Lucifer, Supergirl, Star Trek, Disco, Star Trek, Picard, ton of shows that you love. And we'll also be directing the finale. So that's kind of exciting to know. Um,

Credits roll at the 32-minute mark. These continue to be shorties. Compact episodes of television. I was really like, I wanted this to be an hour. This really felt like it should have been an hour, even though what we got was enthralling. Parts of it. Parts of it. Okay. Specific parts. Opening snapshot. Let's go now. Are you already alluded to some mixed feelings, Mallory Rubin? Do you want to give us the...

The big picture. What was your takeaway on this episode? Sure. Of the acolyte. There's one. I get five? You get six today. No, I carried one over. You get six today. But I'm going to... Maybe I'll... I want to be ready for the finale. You know? So I might stash a couple more. We'll see. Okay. All right. One in five remaining. We'll see where I net out. I...

Okay, my quick thought on the episode and then my quick thought on the season so far. First, quick thought on the episode. Everything with the stranger, Chimer, whatever you want to call him, is enthralling, riveting. Some of the most electrifying stuff I can remember watching. It is honoring the promise of the prompt of the show. And I would happily spend like the bulk of my time watching it and then talking about it with my friends. It's been that good.

I would say we go then to a much lower tier where I'm still wrapped thinking about

soul and what we're seeing from him. But the plot mechanics surrounding that storyline have become quite challenging. There are just some very frustrating aspects. I'm going to tell you. Don't worry. I'm going to tell you what happened. Just hold on one second. I'll be right back and I'll tell you what happened. Also, I'm going to have a little exchange about how sometimes you can't sense things through the force to explain why I'm not currently sensing things through the force. So that was a mixed bag of a storyline because there were highs and lows.

And I just, while I think the Vern, then we go like down, down, down, down, down, down, and we get to our old pal Vern. The Vern storyline of this episode is,

Gave us some juicy theory fodder for where we are heading and how these storylines are seeming like they're going to entwine and connect. Just frankly, not interesting to spend time with that character. So the episode felt like the season in miniature because we have this like magnetic pull to some of the stuff we're seeing here.

And then we have everything else. And I think like a differently structured and sequenced and paced season that allowed us to spend more time with the things that are so appealing and intriguing and working so well would be like an A season of TV. A plus. But that's not what we're getting. So this was like two thirds because we were with The Stranger and Osha so much. Like two thirds, like more, more, more. And then the rest of it was...

you know, a mixed bag that we will discuss today. What about you? I am feeling like more and more encouraged, like ever since Chimera, and I'm sticking with Chimera, ever since Chimera shows up,

floats into frame at the end of that episode, I've been like, okay, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. And as you say, we're more fulfilling the prompt of what we were told and it's wonderful. And so I feel like I feel more and more encouraged that this is going to end on a high. I feel more and more convinced that this season would have been an excellent binge.

like more than most other shows that we ever talk about. I'm usually anti-binge and I've mentioned this before, but I just like really feel like if you sort of zipped your way and found your way here, you'd be like, wow, I'm having a great time. You know what I mean? I feel more certain than ever that Leslie Hedlund, who...

Talked about writing Star Wars fan fiction in high school or whatever. Talked to us in an interview about this idea of like seduced by the dark force and by the dark side and like, and Kylo and all this sort of stuff. I feel really convinced that she walked into Kathleen Kennedy's office and was like,

You know the Raylos? I can feed them a feast. Yeah. And we'll do it. And we are eating. And we will do it separate from the Skywalker saga that is so fraught with so much fandom tension. Why don't we just give them Kylo and Rey and all of that like juicy dark side sexual tension on a ocean foggy rock planet. Yeah.

but make it less connected to something that people have so much history with. And I feel like she's delivering on that. Without question. Well, delivering well. Without question. Yes. As you alluded to, there are different sections of this. I think I'm like slightly higher on the soul section than you are, but only slightly. I enjoyed what we got to see from soul emotionally. That I continue to find riveting. I think the real problem for me is,

Is that I think they have done a really to sometimes very good job with the Osha arc. And as we mentioned last week, the May arc continues to be, feel like an afterthought and sort of a confusing plot convenience mirror. The idea of the twins, which we're going to talk about today, is like very important, I think, to like how Osha feels about her own life.

and specialness in this world. But I just really wish that the May trajectory, and part of that is, as you've alluded to a couple times, part of that is hiding some things that May thinks she knows at least from us in terms of what went down on Brendock. But I just feel like if they were giving May...

the same attention of an arc that they have given OSHA, we would be in a much different place in terms of our feelings about this show. I'm still having a great time and each week I am like more excited to watch an episode. Yeah, I am...

a little worried about how little time remains and how much there is to do, a handy checklist of which Sol actually provided in this episode. I have no intention of harming you, Maiden. Let me go. I will. Believe me, we have a lot to do. We need to find your master. We need to save Osha. But first, you and I are going to talk. I've had 16 years to think about what I said to you. If I ever got the opportunity, so you're going to listen. If the penultimate episode is a flashback. The good news is,

find her master, rescue Osha, same mission. True, true. Efficiency. We love it. We love an efficient showing in the advanced metrics there. I'm starting to wonder if episode seven will maybe not be a full flashback. I agree. And that would be beneficial. I think that if we're still in this present timeline for some of the penultimate and then we can build toward a real banger of a finale, that'll be a satisfying way not only to end the season, but then to

propel us hopefully into a second season of the show and they'll have a better feel for what worked and how to continue to allow us to just linger and luxuriate. And that's the point of view. I am also like, given the good that we've gotten in the last couple episodes, I am also like, I really want the show to have a second season. Oh, me too. I really feel like if they find their feet a bit more, this could be one of the best things in Star Wars.

The organizational breakdown of the episode today is going to follow sort of what you just outlined, which is it's going to go in order of our interest in the plot lines. So the entire pod is about the stranger taking office clothing. Yeah, getting out of the pool. The entire pod. Not going in, getting out. Yes. If you say the pod is ordered by our interest, people are going to think that's all we're going to talk about and they wouldn't be wrong. They wouldn't be wrong. We're going to talk about all of Osha and Chimera. Then we're going to talk about

Sol. Yes. And Basil and Pip and May. Pip, they did you dirty. They did you fucking dirty, Pip. And then we're going to talk about Vern. And Vern is going to like sort of conveniently dovetail into theory corners. That's going to be the final section. But we're not doing like scene by scene chronological. We're going to go more like a little bit more thematically. Should we start with a deep dive? Let's do it. Dateline. Unknown planet.

Yeah. We'll return to that unknown planet. Oh, yeah. Okay. Listen. Looks lovely. Gotta say. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ocean Vista as far as the eye can see. You love an Ocean Vista. A few too many crevices. There are some crevices.

Prevacist, though. Yeah. Okay, listen. Last week on this podcast, because we were honoring Horny Star Wars. That's right. We put all of the Thirst Trap content at the end of the pod. Yeah. That's because it was somewhat of the subtext of last week's episode. Yes. It is the text of this week's episode. I think everyone would agree. So, welcome to the main doc, Thirst Trap Corner. Yay.

Thank you. If you were watching this on video, thank you to John Richter for that new visual of our brand. And if you're listening and you're like, what are they talking about? Subscribe to the New Ringers YouTube channel or watch us on Spotify. John, you genius. What a tantalizing treat. I was waiting for people. Okay, listen, the literal seduction of OSHA is what we have here today. And if you had any doubt about that,

We're going to play a little bit of the audio description that accompanied this episode. We got it courtesy of our pal Eric Voss on Twitter. A million people tagged us in it, but let me rest assured. Like I had already pulled it because I was like, of course we're going to talk about this. So this is the moment when Chimera goes into the pool. Yeah. Steve, can we hear this clip? As he begins to untie a belted knot from around his waist, she straightens up for a better look.

He begins to undress, revealing a prominent scar on his well-toned back. Dropping his billowy-legged hakama pants, he steps forward with the sunlight accentuating his taut muscles. Mine?

Got it. Yeah, I got a belted knot for you. The horniness has invaded the audio description. But that's, I mean, the point is, the point is, it's canon. It was important for people who are visually impaired to know how hot he looked getting into that pool because it's part of the story. That's exactly right. Genuinely true. Yes. Okay. We got an email from Jim. Let's hear it.

And he said, honestly, if either you or Mal don't refer to Chimera as the Snack-O-Lite. That's good. After back-to-back horny episodes, I'm going to have to go old Charles and say, what are we even doing here? Snack-O-Lite is good. I like it. Snack-O-Lite? Yeah. I like it. Do you want to sing it? Snack-O-Lite. Yeah, sounds good. That doesn't even count as one.

Just before that section of the audio description, just so you all know, because I did pull that clip myself, they refer to Chimera as the Sith. I think there's still a debate about whether or not he is an actual Sith. And to round up the evidence we have,

Manny Jacinto has referred to the character as a Sith in Entertainment Weekly. The audio description referred to him as a Sith. I'm still not going to be shocked and dismayed if he winds up being something other than a Sith, but all evidence so far is putting him in the Sith bucket. So in honor of Leslie's celebration of horny Star Wars...

And in honor of fanfic, Mallory and I will now power rank the top nine horniest things Kymer says to Osha in this episode from least to most. We've got nine candidates here. Let's rank them together. Okay. I want you to pick what's, let's start at the bottom. What's the least horny thing he says? And then you just say it into the microphone.

I mean, they're like all should be in a tie for one. The innuendo is. It's not what we're doing here. What's number nine? The path to the fuck side. My goodness. Sheesh. Okay. I'm going to go with the one where it's kind of like on the surface. Okay. Even though there's still subtext. Everyone does seem to want you. Everyone does seem to want you.

It's like a little tame, a little obvious. Let's put that last. Everyone does seem to want you. What do you think? Great. Okay. Eight. Yeah. I'm going to say a special relationship, isn't it? Master and pupil. I was considering that for nine. Okay. Special relationship, isn't it? Master and pupil. Great. Number seven. Let's keep with the theme. Okay. If you're not going to join me, I'd like to put my clothes back on. If you're not going to join me, I'd like to put my clothes back on.

Okay. I thought that was going to go higher, but I support you. Let's put that at seven. Number seven. Yeah. Number six. Yeah. I'm going to go with, and what do you want? The power of two. Yeah. What do you want? The power of two. Just because of the power of two, we associate other things, but we could also associate it with fucking if we wanted to. So I'm just saying. All right. Your turn. Number five. Do it. Turn it on. Do it. Turn it on. Incredible. Yeah. Then I'm going to go with...

You think that's his strength? Yeah. That's your strength in the forest, Osha. You think that's his strength? That's your strength in the forest, Osha. I mean, come on. Oh, yeah. A guy telling you you're powerful? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You keep picking the one I almost picked. Okay, great. We're on the same page. Number three. I sort of feel like the one and two are clear. Yeah. So I'm going to go, but we might not agree here. I'm going to go for number three. Below the surface of consciousness are powerful emotions.

Anger, fear, loss, desire. Below the surface of consciousness are powerful emotions. Anger, fear, loss, desire. I wish you had been seasoning the pot of soup as you said desire. All right. I would have put that in the top two, but I'm fine with it at number three. And I think that means I have to say...

Why do you love people who can only go so far, who can't go as deep as you can? I'm sorry, but who can't go as deep as you can has to be thought to. It has to be, right? Why do you love people who can only go so far, who can't go as deep as you can? So that makes number one our shared number one. Go for it. Feels good, doesn't it? To hold one in your hand again. Feels good, doesn't it? To hold one in your hand again.

Wow, Merle. Great stuff coming in for the handjob humor. I love it. All right. So to recap. This is just sensational. John and Steve are going to put together a mega mix and we're going to hear that 10 through 1. The top 10, in his own words, the top 10 horniest.

from Chimera in this episode. You think people are going to end up using this as like a sexy time playlist instead of like mood music? When I was pulling these clips, I was almost thinking like if they made like an action figure or a plush of Chimera, the kind where you like can change the things they say. Like I have the Babu Frick one, right? Like this is what I would put in the rotation for Chimera. But instead of like pulling a string on his back, you lower his billowy pants to see. His hakama pants, please.

Feels good, doesn't it? To hold one in your hand again. All right. Feels great. That was Third Stripe Corner with you, me, Kaimir, and Leslie Hedlund. Wonderful stuff. Wonderful stuff. Next session goes a little something like this, and it is an honor of Lost coming to Netflix. You're really making the Google Doc work for you. You know, a left-aligned GIF. GIF.

Yeah. It's not just like in the flow of the body copy. You're building it like a feature. It was too narrow. It would have bothered me. That's some inside baseball. You guys can't look at our doc, but... Never. This subject headline... No, no, no. This subject headline is in honor of Lost. Guys...

Where are we? Hey, as we mentioned. Unknown planet. Unknown planet day, which is just a wild thing to say when we've been naming planets left and right. So this rocky, salty, foggy island home is not given a name. Intriguing. Here are our top candidates. Kai. Octo. Yep. Of the end of The Force Awakens and the bulk of The Last Jedi fame. Yes. Yes.

This wasn't filmed in Skellig Michael. This is not filmed on the same location. But it sure looks like it, right? And when Chimera and Osha start flirting and fighting, we have to, of course, think of Kylo and Rey's sort of mutual seduction to the dark and light side, right? So, Ahch-To. Yes.

Where is that ranking on your like, this is or isn't Octo? Probably second after our next candidate. I did feel like the darling, absolutely darling little like elephant trunk face.

chunky sparrow rock creatures. Puppets. They were puppets. They were so cute. And the little family, and they like nuzzled their little trunks together. It was darling. It felt like they were definitely meant to evoke some of our fondness for our octo creatures. So perhaps they're just another octo family of native life that we hadn't previously seen. It's like when a porg meets a sea cow.

They come together and they form these little bird. TBD whether Luke would try to drink the milk straight from the teat of one of those darling little creatures. I hope he would refrain. Certainly more convenient to get a hold of one of them than the creature that he milks in The Last Jedi. Okay, so is it Octo? I can see why they wouldn't name it Octo just because...

It's fraught or, you know, perhaps it's a real reveal for later. Is it Aldemnic? Yeah. And this is what the Legends fans and Wookieepedia folks want it to be. There's a compelling case for this. Leslie, of course, loves the EU. She loves a legend. Yeah. And in the Darth Plagueis book, this is an ocean planet adorned with rocky, tropical, some very tropical islands.

The planet's scorching climate, question mark, kept any would-be holidaymaker away, however. Baldemnik held a noxious atmosphere, question mark, and seismic events often rocked the planet and changed the landscape.

Veins of rich cortosis are, oh, okay, were discovered on the planet's surface. So it does not tick all the boxes. We're not tropical, no scorching climate, no noxious atmosphere, but we got some cortosis here. Yeah, we've got oceans. We've got rocks. We've got the veins of cortosis tracing through the cave. And I think the other thing...

Other than the cortosis that's compelling and the placement in Legends, as you noted, in the Darth Plagueis novel specifically. Not going to be the last time that our guy, our old pal, our old friend, DP, comes up. I'm out on the Plagueis theory. And you tie it all. You're out completely. Fairly out. Okay. My mind is open. That's the planet where he killed his master. So that...

In addition to Leslie's fondness for bringing Legends fodder into her story and the Cortosa's presence, it feels like if there is going to be a Plagueis tie, then putting us on this place that is so central to his story. I like that. And why do you think they wouldn't just name, put that name there?

Because that would be a reveal that would come in tandem with us learning what the stranger's connection to Plagueis is in the finale, if that is coming. But here's my follow-up question. That feels like a much more likely let's wait to reveal it than Octo, a place we already know. But here's my follow-up question is like,

For anyone for whom that will make... That name will mean anything? Yeah. Aren't they already, like, on the Wikipedia, on the, like, on... But what's the case for waiting to name Octel? Like, the place it looks most like and would be most on top of Star Wars fans' minds is a guess. I don't know what the... Because people don't like The Last Jedi, and it's just like, let's just...

leave that for the end? I don't know. In a story where they're spending the bulk of their time in a great, thrilling way that we're loving, interrogating the failures and the shortcomings of the Jedi, I don't think that that seems like the place to be afraid of a last Jedi tie. It almost seems like one to embrace it. I will say, very fun to speculate about what the planet is. If I'm being honest, I was more taken with his... I'm not going to call it a man cave. I'm going to call it just a guy being a dude cave.

Where he is not only making soup and nurturing and milking a cortosis mine, but he has a hot tub. Just a dude being a guy has a hot tub in his secret lair. And this is the most perfect payoff of just a guy imaginable. A hot tub. I was like, where's the food table? Where is the food table? Shout out to our listeners.

Shout out to our listener, Danian, who wrote it and said, big ups to Chimera for being a total domestic queen. Queen spelled the queer K-W-E-N way. His lair is certainly a hell of a lot more attractive and comfortable than Obi-Wan's Dune Sea Bachelor grotto. It smelled in there. Cannon that it smelled.

Old Ben clearly would have benefited from getting decorated advice from a lesbian. Also, it is obvious Kymer is ready to let Osha move in after the first date. Nice to see Leslie Headland excelling as a showrunner slash matchmaker slash home stager. So we love that as well. Two more options here. Okay.

And the reason there's a gif in the doc, by the way, is it's the gif of Ray asking Kylo if he has something, a cowl or something he could put on when he Skypes or shirtless. I still, it just takes me back instantly to thinking about the waistband there. Man, what a time at the movies. Two more options. Number one, number four,

three on the list. Some were intentionally unplottable. So a future Sith plot can happen there without disturbing the stories we already know and love. That also seems completely probable. But then they could have just made up a random planet that we've never heard of. Yeah. Because sometimes we don't get the name right away and then we get it later in Star Wars shows. But to go out of the way to say unknown planet. Last but not least. Yeah. This is actually kind of my favorite. It's definitely my favorite. Is it? Even though I don't really believe it.

This is all taking place inside Osha's head. Okay.

Last week, we heard our dear departed Yord say, he gets into your head and he stays there. Yes. When we left them at the end of last week's episode, he was draping, you know, a cloak over her or whatever, his cloak over her. Yep. And that was it. Yeah. He didn't like lift her bridal style and carry her off into the forest to like a shuttle or something like this. I don't know that I believe this is right, but I kind of like it and I want to offer it up as an option.

mostly, here's the argument for, here's the argument against. The argument is for is if they had got into a shuttle, would, as incompetent as he is, would Saul not have been like, there they are, and chased after them? The other side of that... Well, they were running like a power reboot and, you know, a lot of issues on the ship and also doesn't know that May is standing next to him having a conversation with him. I just think it's interesting that we didn't see them leave. And then the other side of that, though, is that

when Vern shows up and we have reason to believe that she is like understanding more than she's even saying on the planet, would she not have sensed them if they were just like around the corner in the forest? Particularly if, as we will discuss throughout the pod, you're theorizing that that's her former Padawan. You would think that she would immediately sense him. Okay, here are my, I'm intrigued. Here are my two questions. One is serious and one is a continuation of Thirst Trap Corner. My serious question is,

If it's all in Osha's head, how do we explain the fact that this is the location where we saw the stranger at the end of episode one? I'm not sure it is. Well, I have two answers to that. Number one, because I think I... Could it be the May-Osha dyad mind meld? No, could that have been in May's head? Because she wasn't actually going to see him. Yeah, she never actually goes to see him. Come to the mind palace. Come to the mind palace, right? So this is the location he, like, projects to people. Right. Come to my rocky, oceanic mind palace, okay? The other idea... Gladly. I had about that is that... I think that...

Drop a pin. I think they said somewhere.

where that location was. I didn't look it up, but they said some, I think they said somewhere about it being like just off the coast of one of the planets we had already visited. Even though it does look similar, it's rocky, there's oceans. It's not quite the same. The rock was more like obsidian-like that he's standing on when he gives his like kill the dream speech. I'd have to compare them. I have some research to do. Hobbitsanddragons.gmail.com if you want to do a side-by-side or whatever. Second question. If we're just in a mind palace. Yeah.

episode here. Yeah. Wouldn't they fuck? Tune in next week for the accolade. Right? If this were my mind palace, my visit to the stranger's lair and he made me soup and he got naked and he went for a swim and then he walked out of the ocean and

And I just stared at his dick for a really long time. No, but she's not having a dream that she's in control of. He's manipulating the projection. He's like doing a slow roll seduction. I was joking about wouldn't they fuck. I don't expect that on Disney Plus. Sadly. No, we got sex in Andor. We did get sex in Andor. We did. But no one walks bare ass naked out of a pool. Acolyte, the groundbreaker that you are. Okay. Special. As we said, we were stripping off in a pool.

Okay, this is what I'm calling an anatomy of a seduction. And this is what we're going to do. Actually, that was unintentional. Actually, that was 100% unintentional. We're going to break down the seduction tactics of Khair Mir here and what he does to make it believable that in under 30 minutes in this episode...

OSHA just plops that helmet on her head. Like, it doesn't feel like, wow, that was fast. I think we're all at home going like, yep, uh-huh, correct. Three times as long as how long it took Anakin to go from, oh no, I'm killing all the younglings. So, totally buy it. Okay, so Leslie pointed out in an interview. Yeah.

That Chimera's seduction of May to the dark side was based on her, the like anger, rage, her desire for revenge is sort of burbling close to the surface in May. So his tactics were tailored to her. We'll talk about that a little bit more. And Leslie said in this interview, like, we need to think about what Osha wants when we think about what Chimera's moves are here. Yep.

So we're going to look at like his tactics and how that compares to what we know about what Osha as a character wants. And by the way, if you want to have a good time,

Please call up the script for episode three of The Acolyte and just word search the word want because it is maybe the most frequently, other than the power of one, the power of two, the power of many. In that flashback Brandock episode, people are constantly either talking about what they want or asking people what they want. So if you're like, what does Osha want? Guess what they told us in episode three. So we'll talk about that. So we're going to start as we should. Mm-hmm.

with some lust. Right? Yeah. He definitely knows she is following him. Oh, yeah. And he definitely knows... Unlike Sol, he can use the Force and sense things through it. He definitely knows what he looks like. And he is definitely using that to his advantage. One thing I loved reading, Leslie talking about this idea of casting Mae Jacinto not...

just off like she's like I liked The Good Place yeah but then I saw Nine Perfect Strangers and I too have suffered through every episode of Nine Perfect Strangers and I'm sorry I just did not like that show but an upside of that show is Manny Jacinto being like extremely hot and mysterious in that show and so I can see her being like first of all she was like wow a guy goes from like

goofy Jason on the good place to whatever it is he does in Nine Perfect Strangers. But also just like a guy who knows exactly how hot he is and is willing to use it. Just a guy and a dude. Just a guy. There's also though in Stripping Off there's the like disarming like literally like vulnerability taking off the clothing that he wore to battle to murder people that she cares about. Yep.

putting down the weapon in a place she could easily find it. Easily, yeah. Almost like presenting it to her. And showing off the scars. Yes. Which he will do again, I think, very intentionally later. You can clean whatever you need to clean with a little piece of cloth. You didn't have to lift your shirt to it. Yeah, yeah. Not that anyone's complaining. So where are you with this? How are you feeling about this?

I thought the sequence was miraculous, riveting and extraordinary. I loved everything about it. The first...

how does it feel? Again, like, you know, making jokes about Sol not recognizing May through the Force, it actually does feel like an intentional distinction to draw between them in terms of the conversations throughout the episode, how he is trying to teach slash corrupt Osha in terms of like what it means to connect to your power, right? What it means to look inward, what it means to connect to the Force. So that first, how does it

Right. It's framed in the language of touch, of sensation. Right. It's sensory. It's sensual. And so I think this is sure there are going to be some people who are like, God, House of R. They just like really got horny today. But it's the text of the episode. It really is. It just is. Yeah. And it feels then very emotional.

with that overall interest in interrogating the question of attachment because attachment can come in many forms. It's not always lust, right? It's not always sex, but sometimes it is. And that also connects to then another theme that you've already mentioned and will come up throughout the pod today, this question of control. Are you in control? Do you want to be? Does somebody else help you think you can be? Is that true? Is that a tactic? Yeah. There is throughout this, this like illusion of choice that she has, right? Yeah.

He's the naked one. She's got the weapon. Yeah. Yes. And he says, prisoner? You're the one with the weapon. That was so good. I thought that was spine tingling. And he's like... Everything feels like a tactic, but also I was watching this episode...

And also, like, making my way through your incredibly thoughtful outline where you do a wonderful job of showing how tactical and methodical and strategic this seduction is. And I was like, I would be, I would fall quickly to the dark side. Because this worked on me. Like, every line, every scene, I'm like, he is right. Shame on the Jedi. The whole time. But the whole, okay, the whole time, except for...

Did it take you out of the spell that he's casting here when they cut to Jackie's dead body? That was tough. That was where I was like, oh. That was tough. Okay. That was tough. But like, there's also so much despair because there's this thrill. There's this jolt throughout, right? Yeah.

attraction, intrigue. But there was also so much sadness. Like when he said, we already mentioned the line, feels good and doesn't it to hold one in your hand again. I assume you didn't keep your own saber when you left the Order. It just made me so sad to think about, we've talked a lot on other pods about the gathering, about what it means, that rite of passage to hear your kyber crystal call to you, you know, the wand chooses the wizard of Star Wars. And to think that

you would have to leave that behind? Like, a piece of you? It's like, can you... And your connection to the Force. Can you drop a part of your arm and it's like they're making you? And your connection to the Force. Like, if you wash out of Jedi Academy, you don't get your weapon, you're not even allowed to use the Force anymore. Not even allowed, they're like, they tell you, like, if you don't use it, you're going to lose it, right? Yeah. Forgive me. I do apologize. This is the one place where I'm like, maybe I'm going too far, but listen, I have to do it myself. Um...

I was just reading this fan fiction the other night, and it is a gothic horror...

very, very spooky, scary story. It's called A Certain Slant of Light and I really recommend it. But when the villain is caught monologuing by her heroine and she's been like trapped inside this manor but told that she can leave it. And he says, no sense in raising the alarm before I was ready and weren't you happier for it? Didn't it soothe you to think you could leave? We both know how you long for control.

So this idea that like, he's like, oh, you can swim out to the ship. Yeah. You got the weapon. Or you can wait till the tide goes out. Yeah. Whatever. It's up to you. I'm not holding you prisoner. Yeah. You can leave. Right.

You're the one in control. Right. Not like I couldn't grab you and drag you across the forest floor and force choke you the way I just did to your sister easily in last week's episode. And I force pushed you across the forest. Yeah. You're in control. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Osha wants this choice, right? Way back on Brendock, she was so frustrated that these choices kept being made for her. Yes. Or that Mae's choice was assumed to be her choice as well. She says, I don't know if I want to be a witch. Right.

And Maze says, of course you want that. And Osha says, no, you want that. Right. We're going to talk a little later about this idea of, like, her identity just being, like, blended with Maze when she was a kid and how much that frustrated her. But this idea of, like, choice and decision and control. And even becoming a Jedi wasn't a choice for her in the end because, like, it seemed like it was. It was this counter to, I don't want to do this ceremony and become a witch. Yep. But here are these, I want to join these Jedi and go adventuring out into the great wide somewhere. Except... Yep.

She doesn't make that choice actively. She seems like she's going to, and then everything goes sideways.

And she wakes up and she's on the ship and they won't let her go back. And so her going to the Academy, even though it was seemed like what she was going to do, ultimately that was a choice that those Jedi made for her. Yeah. And she's in the very same bed in the very same med bay where we'll see May chained at the end of the episode. So that association is top of mind. And of course, even if she had been in control of every aspect of that decision and said, fire seems bad, you're right, we should go.

I'll walk on the ship with you. Yeah. I remember everything, which is obviously not the story we're watching. It was still more about the absence of choice in her everyday life. Right. You can't even go sit under the tree you want to sit under because everybody is trying to make sure that you're living by the rules of the coven. So it was the strictures of one place or the strictures of another. If you're not going to join me.

I'd like to put my clothes back on. It's like, must we? Must we? So if you're not going to join me naked in this pool. Yeah. Is the implied statement there. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Come in for a skinny dip. Come in for a swim. There's a way to get out of the ocean. Tuck in, bending, moving, hiding. That was not what he did. Shoulders back. Shoulders back. Lightsaber out. Yeah.

But also, of course, that join me language is classic iconic Sith language, right? Vader, join me and together we will rule the galaxy as father and son. Or Kylo saying, I want you to join me. We can rule together and bring a new order to the galaxy. So he's not quite saying that. He's saying, join me naked in the pool. But still, it's iconic Sith language. It's an invitation to be a power of two.

Power of Manny. However you interpret it. You mentioned the like, feels good, doesn't it? The like, you know, he's talking about the lightsaber and almost immediately after he goes right into this master and pupil guidance that he offers her. Like flattering compliments. Yes. Laced with encouraging instruction and that hints at the secret of the force that has been hidden from her that he can allow her access to. That's the classic Sith playbook is that last part. Yeah.

Kylo tried this in a more brusque way at the end of The Force Awakens when he's like, you need a teacher to Rey, right? He's not doing as smoothly as Kymer is doing here on perhaps her mind or on a rocky planet somewhere. But what does he say to her right away? Your stance is good. Yes. You should keep your other elbow up higher allows for a swifter block. And what did Mei say she was always weak at?

Blocking. Blocking. And we got to see that little sequence with Jackie and the other Padawans who were training at the temple. And it was so...

we love Jackie, so we enjoyed seeing it. We liked, oh, Tormund Lyon, intriguing. But it's so, again, controlled, right? You are a part of this cluster of other people. We're telling you what you can't do. And this felt very much, you know, the episode is, the name of the episode is obviously intentional. Long before she's decided whether or not to opt in, the instruction has begun. And it's through the lens of

Yeah, he's giving her guidance. He's giving her notes. Here's something you could do better. But it starts by saying, like, this is good. Yeah. You know, and you just have plenty of reason to believe from all of our history that that wouldn't necessarily be what a youngling at the temple was first hearing. Right? No. You think that's his strength? That's your strength in the forest, Osha. Someone ought to teach you that. Right? Just more praise. You are stronger than your master. Yeah.

And no one has ever let you know that.

This was incredible. That line. I loved it. I just absolutely loved it. And right away he gets her because he says that and then he like says the thing about like, you can go out to the ship, whatever you want, blah, blah, blah. Hungry, right? Goes into the cave and she just trots right in after him and says, what do you mean my strength and the force? Yes. Hooked her. Yes. Got her. It's effective. Someone ought to teach you that was, I think, it's tough because I really liked all of their scenes. Probably my favorite

line of the episode. It's certainly in the running. Again, this is like the Sith point of view that we were promised. There's the way that we're watching him manipulate and maneuver, but also just that larger theme that the series is interested in exploring, like the Jedi want to hide.

They hide from strength. They live in fear of it. And then they encourage the people who are a part of their order to live in fear of what is inside of them. And how would that not be tantalizing to you to hear, right? Somebody to reframe the thing that you thought was palpable or present in another person as actually being a part of you. And like, I'm struck too. I wanted to ask you, it's like a couple lines before, but

When they're talking about Sol, and he says, like, interesting that you asked about him first, which is a great little touch. Yeah. He says, he taught you the Jedi arts, but he's more to you than that. A special relationship, isn't it? Master and pupil. What do you make of the fact that two episodes in a row now, we've heard him say pupil. Not apprentice or acolyte. Yeah, because he has said acolyte elsewhere. But does it... I thought the word choice was really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Like...

First of all, it just casts him like we were talking about a lot last episode. It's like that idea of a splinter cell, right? Something just a little different. Yeah. Do you feel like they should have called the show Pupil? No, I think, what would we sing? Abbed Pupil. Five times per episode. If it were Pupil. That's three. Damn it, is it really? Fuck. Blowing through them. I mean, Pupil and Apprentice are obviously synonyms. Right.

So maybe it's a distinction without a difference and it is just meant to like make him seem like he's using slightly distinct language. But it feels like just that one degree of that's about teaching, not training. Yes. Right. I'm not just readying you for a job. I'm really trying to enhance your knowledge. And it's not as much about a power like master apprentice has so much like.

Charged authority versus obviously like a teacher has authority in the classroom or whatever, but it's not the same as master and apprentice teacher and pupil. Yeah. Very interesting. Um,

This might be the line for me. It's very much, he uses the language of her mother in the coven here. And he says, and that's what they told you. The Jedi teach there's only one way to access the Force. And if you don't do it their way, it fades. But there is another way. So this implies like only I can teach you this, right? The Jedi will never teach you this. They sold you a lie. He's, by the way, stirring the soup the entire time he says that. And like seasoning. It's just...

100% true no notes territory wonderful the fact that like she couldn't even like reach out to Pip in a moment where she thought she was gonna die at the beginning of the season yep and he's like that's because they lied to you yes and said your force is only active when you train it with them right and that's their control and that's what Mother Anisea was saying yes it's about power and who's allowed to use it yeah absolutely

A special relationship isn't master and pupil, of course. What do you want? The power of two. Still, this is the question about the power of two. What do you want? The power of two. This is her mother's language, of course. But also, do you think this means this is like a brief foray into theory corner? Does he just want a pupil, an acolyte, an apprentice, a student? Or does he want...

Is he still after the double pack, the double digest, Mei and Osha, the Force Dyad? Does he want the power of two literally wants to harness their combined power? Or forge a dyad himself, which I think is also possible because that's like the doctrine of the dyad Sith canon or Sith history and the way that Palpatine felt like

that was the true path, not the rule of two and tried to form one. Like I said, tried to form one. Like I wonder, especially that's part of why I feel like still intrigued by the prospect of a, of a Darth Plagueis tie potentially. Um,

you know, obviously in Rise of Skywalker. You know, we hear, we've talked about this elsewhere in the season, but we hear Palpatine say the power of two restores the one true emperor when talking about the Rey Kylo Force dyad. So, yeah, it could be something similar like the way Palpatine is trying to tap into the power of a dyad that exists and he does still want to use Osha and May, but the way he, I don't know, that's where I get back to like the fact that he was so willing to kill either or both of them last episode. And also just the way he talks about May in this episode, like,

When he says, I made a mistake, it seems sincere. It does. That he has. And that's part of that recalibration and the tactic, too, that you talked about. Like, that didn't work. Let me really try something different. But also there is, there are glimpses of sincerity throughout all of this. And that's part of the power of the seduction.

You know, is the vulnerability, is the actual sincerity that's in here, you know, along with it. It's interesting to me, like this sort of tacit offer of tutelage that he gives her, right? I choose you. I made a mistake with your sister. I choose you. He's on some like, isn't that something any twin might want to hear? You're the special one. Yeah. You're different.

Like, to the witches, Osha and May were special, but they were a conduit almost for power. And they were certainly treated as sort of indistinguishable. Yeah. Absolutely. There was that scene that you called out when we covered that episode, episode three, when Mother Anisea has them join hands. And she says, hold hands, and like forces the hands together. And she says, hold hands. This is your sister. This thread tied you together before you were born. Yeah.

before you're born you weren't your own thing you've always been yeah one of two yeah a a complete set right osha was suffocating under this i give you you you give me me like twin identity right we from the start we've been like that's a little unless that's about the shared orgasm that's coming our way in the finale for the stranger and osha it's not for me it's not for me wonderful

This was like such explicit text in episode three when Mae says to Osha, I share everything with you and you hide things from me or run off alone. And Osha says, I want to have my own things. Mae's like, why? Osha says, because I don't want to do everything together all the time. But why? Because we're not the same. Of course we are. No, it feels that way because we're the only children here. And so kind of like,

Yeah. Not only understands that this is something that Osho wants, but she like literally tells him when she's like, I'm not my sister. I'm not that easily corrupted. Right? Like he's like, oh, I got it. Did this shit work on my sister? Yeah. That was great. But he's like, got it. You need to feel special and different from Mae. And to that, to the way you brought us into this section with what Leslie said about the nature of the tactic, like that was part of why this entire storyline in the episode I thought was so successful because you can feel that

the deliberate nature of what he is doing because he knows it will work. He understands his mark. But you also felt that it was true for him, right? That the failure with May was a failure. Yes. And that he felt like that taught him something. Because I think when he said it, said last episode to Saul and says again here, like, I want people, like, you can feel the

It's in here. Yeah. And so the fact that he is like changing his tactic, it's going to position him

To succeed, it seems, certainly, by the way the episode ends. How could it not, again? I mean, how could it not? But also, like, that's unlocking something new for him as well. And we'll talk in a couple other scenes about, like, how he's able to test and assess and how that's in contrast to when you're out in the open versus under a mask or impersonating, you know, a buffoon at the apothecary, etc. Right.

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I think that's... Like, let's skip to that part, right? Like, this idea, this, like, we're not so different you and I approach that he has and the very different approaches he takes with Osha and Mei. For Mei, he's the... He doubles himself. He's the stern master and he's the doofy sidekick. Yes. Right? And this is because Mei wants to be... Mei's a joiner. She wants to join something. She wanted to be part of the coven. She wanted the pomp and circumstance of the ceremony, right? So he presents...

a group. It's just him, really, but he presents a group for her to join. And, like, that masked nature, he's play-acting the stern master, he's play-acting the doofy sidekick. He does something much closer to reality, as you say, much more vulnerable for Osha. There's the literal costume change, right? Takes off. Yeah.

hakama pants boy does he takes off the so hardcore Sith coded clothing and puts on the like humble threads of just a guy being a dude right it's helpful it's helpful that they're white Osho of course is in grey yeah and then in this whole guise of we're not so different you and I

He says he was a Padawan too, right? You speak as if you were a Jedi, she says. He says, I was a long time ago. I'd never heard of you. It was a really long time ago. Yeah. Helpfully, we get to see his face again.

You know, the camera's on him as he's walking, as he says this. And so we get to see the kind of glint of mischief and memory in his eyes. And so this was exciting. Theory of father, like, oh, how old is he? How long ago? He appears to be.

human so maybe he's is there some sort of like disguise or is this a vampire what oh sorry no go ahead no I don't think he's a vampire I don't think he's a vampire in our Star Wars I don't think he's a vampire that would be fun but he's vampire coded okay but of course it's like how can we not then think again about Plagueis and Palpy and the idea of manipulating and extending life

I think it was a really long time ago is the closest I will come to getting on board the Darth Plagueis theory. So what are you where are you on the the Internet discussion and theory this week that maybe it's not that he's Plagueis, it's that he's Darth Venamis Venamis?

the other, the secret other apprentice of Plagueis' master. Maybe. I just, I think this is like similar to like- He's not a biff. This is similar to like

Do I want Yoda in the show? Like, I just almost don't want this to connect to known Sithy canon. Do you know? Yeah, but because I think, yeah, that's totally fair. Even though I'm like, what if he's a Ren? But this feels, yeah, I mean, obviously, like, there have been more stories about Darth Plagueis, but not a ton of core screen canon. And you're like, this is hot young Plagueis who fucks, is what you're saying. Or...

the other one the side piece say it again but venomous venomous fabled lightsaber warrior the three hole punch amazing that was just for people who are watching the video dead face and yours that was sad okay so here's some more of the like we were not so different you and i right like we used as younglings he says when he uh talks to her about the helmet right yep

And then, of course, tapping into her experience on Brendock and then washing out of the Academy. I understand I lost everything, Osha. When you lose everything, that's when you're finally free. It's appealing. We're not so different, you and I.

The Jedi saw it, he said, and that's why they threw you away, which is a real journey from everyone does seem to want you, which is the tactic he used earlier. Yeah, yeah. And then later, he says, someone who threw me away, and she says, your Jedi master, right? So, like, he could not be... In this little, like, someone who threw me away, your Jedi master... Yeah. ...is the most Kylo-coded thing of all of this. Because this idea that, like, if his Jedi master was Burnestra Rowe, which is... Seems...

Absolutely just true. The only thing more obvious at this point, based on this episode and the entire season, was the fact that Chimera was going to be under the stranger's helmet. If she's his master. We don't, like, did she leave that mark on his back? That we are so certain of. It's the exact same shape of the whip. Yeah, that's the laser whip, yeah. Was she his master at the time when she did that? That's still a slight question mark for me. But this idea that

like Kylo maybe had a master who was scared of them. Yeah. And in that scared reaction created this dark side force. Yes. Yes. I love this. And I thought like the, they didn't want you. Yeah. And the, they threw you away. First of all, the emotion is,

In his voice, when he says those things, we have not yet seen his backstory, but it ports us into the truth of what happened to him, regardless of the specifics. That's how he felt about what happened to him. I had the same feeling about it. They're glimpsing that power. They're glimpsing those emotions beneath the surface. They don't want to tend that. They want to stifle it. And if it can't be stifled, there's no place for you in our world. They'll cast you out. Right. What a horrible thing. And so...

When we were talking last episode about, who are you? You don't remember me. I sense something familiar. What master hides his face from his people? You tell me. And theorizing about, okay, it seems like he probably was a Jedi and it made him feel like he wasn't welcome, etc. All of this was great. I do think the they didn't want you and threw you away thing felt like it did make sense, actually, with the earlier, well, everyone certainly seems to want you because...

It's the difference between what you need and what other people need. Right? Like, everybody wants you when it's on their terms and their timeline and fits their need. Right now. Yeah. But where were they then? Exactly. Yeah. So I actually felt that felt like they worked in the same role together. Or on their terms. Like, when Saul comes up to her. Exactly. And is like, I need you on this way, Miss Moon. And she's like, and to go back in to join the Order. And he's like, well, not really. Speaking of Saul.

So to go back to this idea of like, you're special and that's something that's attracting attractive to her. Yeah.

Saul used a very similar tactic, right, when he went to Brandock in the first place, right? And he says, what do you want? And she doesn't answer. And then he gives her his little spiel about how he was taken as a child and how he was totally chill and fine and cool and he loved it. And he says, the Jedi saw how special I was and I can see that in you, Osha, right? Yeah. You're so special. Come with me. You're more special than your sister. Come with me. Yes.

And there's this like implication that neither Sol nor anyone else in the Jedi Order actually offered any kind of actual intimacy with her. They'll throw you away when they don't need you, right? But also this, you would have had the same relationship with her, Jackie, that you have with your master, one-sided. Why do you love people who can only go so far, who can't go as deep as you can, right? You're special. You love deeper than most. A stranger just like us loves to go deep. Only I can match you on that level, right? Yeah.

This was my other favorite part of the episode. I loved this. Why do you love people who can only go so far? Yeah. And that's pretty close to the desire utterance, right? So again, it plays to that active kind of idea of seduction and framing the pitch of the path to the dark side just as

that unlocks the full range of human experience. Right? Again, very appealing. I was like, sign me up. Would thou like to live deliciously? Yeah. I'm in. And if the Jedi... Now, we always make sure to cite the distinction between... It wasn't just that the Jedi didn't think that Anakin should love Padme. The way that that idea... For him, it was like...

I'm going to seek to control, right? To do something unnatural and unholy that kind of violates the normal course of life. But isn't there room for all sorts of things in between? And when he says desire, doesn't it make you believe that that could be possible? So then to build right to the Jackie exchange, right?

It's not about. Shout out my babe, Jackie, by the way, because he had an answer for soul and he had an answer for your, but he's like, I got nothing. She's like, and Jackie. And he's like, um, she wouldn't love you as much as I love you.

Jackie really crushed it. Yeah. Made an impression. A lasting one. Yeah. It's what I loved about that. Why do you love people who can only go so far framing is like, it's not about, it is about Osha, but it's really, it's about reminding her what everybody who she thinks she wants to spend her life with is never going to be able to give her. Right. And so like that again, it's just such a tantalizing pitch. It,

It's not what you're going to hear from the Jedi. Don't form an attachment. Don't love. Don't allow these things that are just like the most normal parts of being alive. Right. Right. Deny yourself. Yeah. Yeah. A bubble to the surface. It's it's not just like suppress on yourself. It's surround yourself with the other people who can give that to you. Also, the other people who are tapping into that as well. And so the pitch is.

Yeah, would you like fall to the dark side? Join me in the pull of the dark side. Sure. But the pitch is really like be alive. Let yourself be alive. Or humanoid or whatever. Whatever the space version of be a human. Be a being. Do it. That cares and loves and experiences.

experiences joy but also hate and anger and all the other things he leaves hate out of it actually by the way but it does um i thought that was really interesting to compare that to the con we're gonna just dip our toe over into this soul and may storyline because they have a conversation about pip your best friend pip right and soul says to may who's pretending to be osha

I noticed the way you take care of him, talk to him, love him, even though he is just a machine. And she says, I've always been like that, even when I was little. And he says, I know. Now, I'm actually, like, not 100% sure whether or not Sol is having a conversation with her and already knows she's Mae. And it's talking about how he knew her character then. And if Mae is talking about herself there or if Mae is talking about Osha. But either way, there was this, like,

that question of attachment yeah is at the core of episode three and at the core of these twins trying to individuate themselves or not or cling to each other what is healthy attachment what is unhealthy attachment it was never modeled for osha that's for sure yeah so i think this was my least favorite second no second second favorite moment of the of the all the soul moments we'll we'll get to our other one which i have no doubt we shared yes i was genuinely like

Yes, it was so good. First of all, it was just a beautiful performance. Like the way he said, talk to him, love him. It was just, again, that he thought... Lee Jung Jae is so good. Sol as a character, I'm loving. Him being trapped in this weird plot line, I'm loving a little less. But everything with his characters is fantastic. I found that like so, so gut-wrenching. It was really emotional because he's like, he actually, like you're saying...

has this inside of him too and believes that love and devotion and the level of commitment and attachment where you would literally attach a being metallic or otherwise to your hip and carry them around with you everywhere you went and do whatever you could to protect them and care for them and nurture them.

He loves that about her. Yeah. Like, he recognizes it and celebrates it and has room in his heart for it. He keeps little hologram images of her in his pocket. I just thought that was wonderful. I also, I agree. I also think, like, we talked about this when we first met her in episode one, but her relationship with Pip

is so Star Wars lonely girl coded. Yeah. And with love and respect to you or anyone else who might want to make a droid their best friend for life, it is, it does. Did you know that my cat is my best friend? I know, but I just didn't want you to like, think that I was implying that it's not okay that Halo is your best friend for your life. But the point is, you're not alone out in the edge of a galaxy working as a mech neck with only Halo to talk to and saying no to your various other mech necks when they're like, come hang out with us. Am I not?

Thomas, like hearing you, I'm going to reflect on this later because hearing you sketch that out, that sounds remarkably like my life. That's not true. You do think sometimes? We get you on a podcast soon. Sure. You also live with an entire husband. So let's talk about that. But anyway, like, but that Osha we meet out in the middle of nowhere has run away from her life, has only a droid for companionship. That makes her vulnerable.

you know, similar to Ray, vulnerable to seduction. This offer of someone who might love her as deeply as she loves people. Love to be loved.

Love to be loved deeply. Great. Cool stuff. Love to be loved deeply. Just a few more bullet points on Chimera's 10 simple rules for seducing someone to the dark side. Topping into her anger and isolation, provoking her. This is classic Sith, right? Snoke and Palpatine love to stoke rage. Those little sickos, right?

Do it. I knew it. Turn it on. Like, that's... How could we not think about Palpatine in that moment, right? Yeah. Not the first time that we thought of Palpatine. You know, when we first started to see the disrobing. That was my... We will follow your career with great interest. But the duo was incredible. The duo was fantastic. I don't want to belabor this, but I do want a little bit of credit for the fact that, like, when I interviewed Leslie Hedlund before the series started, I said...

Something along the lines of, it's a lot easier to seduce someone to the dark side when you're as hot as a man, Lusenberg and Manny Jacinto. I said that. And that is just what the show is. This is why you're the best. This is why you're the best. Speaking of that seduction, let's hear this provocation exchange between Chimera and Osha. Why do you still think of yourself as a Jedi? They didn't want you. It's not true. I left. Why? Because I chose to. Are you sure about that?

Let me go. What you're feeling right now, this anger, this pain, this is who you are. The Jedi saw it, and that's why they threw you away. They didn't throw me away. Then why aren't you a Jedi? Why aren't you a Jedi, Osha? Because I failed! I understand. Why do you keep the panting and the sort of like roar of the lightsaber on the clip? Listen, um...

I'm reminded, of course, of actually a part of The Last Jedi that I love that J.J. Abrams and his infinite wisdom decided to erase, which is like, Rey, your parents are nobody from nowhere. They're junk traders. They abandoned you. Yes. But I won't do that. That's not what I'm going to do. Also a part of that movie that I loved. Yeah. Join me. They end this exchange in a very, like, intimate. They're not quite fucking the way that Mallory would if we were in her mind palace. What are you feeling right now? Yeah.

But she's pressed him up against the cliff face. She's staring at his throat. It's a whole thing, right?

Our listener Mary Beth. A hand on the arm. Yes. Oh, and he's taking as many opportunities as he can to touch her. Just like little brief, like fleeting touches. Okay. Mary Beth says, thank you, Leslie, for all the hours I and so many other fans will now waste on TikTok watching countless edits of Manny Jacinto's torso as he steps in and out of the water or reading numerous spicy fan fiction, shipping Osha and Chimera together. Oshmere?

She knew what she was doing and boy, did she do it. My hope is that both of these characters live to season two to explore their dynamic fully, preferably with some sweaty force training sessions. And sign us up. And Leslie Hedlund said in an interview that so last week's episode night where, you know, Manny made his like for real debut.

aired on a Tuesday. By Wednesday, someone had sent her some fan fiction on AO3 of Chimera and Osha, and she was just like, yes. Leslie was like, correct. That is what I was going for, right? Incredible. Last but certainly not least, an homage to Hades, the original dark side seducer. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You think there are pomegranate seeds in the soup? In the soup? Listen, if Persephone taught us anything...

is that you don't eat anything when you're in the underworld. Not a single bite of anything. Certainly for Damon Targaryen, not poison peas. No, no, no. Don't eat anything. I do not need to be felled by poison peas.

Kymer offers a bowl of food twice. The first time she's like, get this out of my face. I'm not my sister. I'm trying so hard not to make a joke about eating things in that case. Do it. Do it. No, I'm trying so hard. Do it. Turn it on. Carry on. The second time she has it in hand. We don't actually, I think, see her eat the soup, but it seems like she has eaten. She has accepted the food. But like,

I mean, say it. Just say it. Say it. You want to. I'm good. Why hold yourself back? I'm good. Be yourself. Oh, man. The Jedi might throw you away, but I won't. Yeah. I love you just as you are. Just full of all this hate and anger. And lust. And lust. You know, I think she ate the soup, but I wonder what else they both ate. That's all. Bad baby. Tune in for episode seven of The Acolyte. Okay.

But I think most importantly, Hades with the pomegranate or the serpent with the apple in the garden, if you prefer, he's not making her eat. Right.

And in fact, he is constantly leading her and she is just trailing right behind him. It goes back to that like illusion of choice thing, but he's constantly asking her questions and letting her fill in the blanks or draw her own conclusions. Right. She says, why did you bring me here? He said, why do you think? Yeah. She says leverage. And he's like, you know, sure. Or where'd you get that scar? How do you think I got it? Yes. Right. Allowing her to draw her own conclusions. Right.

without telling her necessarily the answer, going along with what she's decided is true. Is it true? Is it not? Who's to say? But she feels like smarter and in control, right? That's another example too of how I think it really works from both character perspectives because it gives her that feeling. It gives her that tether to her experience. But from his perspective...

It also is an effective test. And it's a different kind of test than the one he gave May where they have their deal, right? They have the four-kill trial. And then he plays the character of Chimere to see her truly, right? And this is just him standing quite literally naked in front of her and now clothed and making a, I thought, frankly, lovely soup. You love a soup. I love a soup. I love a soup.

I love a soup. Is it Hugh Hammer soup on House of the Dragon? Is it Chimera's cave soup? Who's to say? You're into it. Chimera's cave soup. Uh-huh. I would partake. 10 out of 10 would eat. 10 out of 10 would eat. Yeah, so I love that about it. Again, it just works for both of them. He's testing her. He's working her. But he has a mission of his own as well.

The last way in which he like does not force, he doesn't like shove the helmet on her head. Right? He leads her to it. He walks away. Just leaves the helmet sitting there. Right? Yeah. And he says, so it's just you and the force and what you bring with you. Try it on. I don't trust you. Nor should you. Yeah. But you should learn to trust yourself. This is great. Love to be on Dagobah. We're thinking about Yoda. Of course.

Yoda says that place is strong with a dark side of the force, the domain of evil it is. In you must go. What's in there? Only what you take with you. This whole thing is so Dagobah coded. Oh, yeah. You know, like this whole, it's fascinating to me. Yeah. And Osha puts on the mask.

It's sick. Very good. Very good. Also, so the breathing is amazing. The like, all of that is incredible. Also, she can't see shit in that mask. That's what I love most about it. And so then we have to think about, we have to think about the fact that Chimera did all of that fighting in last week's episode with,

Yeah. This much ability to see. Yeah. And like that's how scary powerful his power, but also his connection to the force, you know, and the nature of it. Because when he was explaining the cortosis and the sensory deprivation, he's basically like, you can be 11, not the age 11, 11, the character from Stranger Things in your sensory deprivation tank. And we've been tracking throughout the season, the block, the rediscovery for Osho. Well, if this is just you coming,

and the force and what you bring with you, you

you don't need to see. And there's like a lot of fun, obviously, like for us as Star Wars fans, that's going to ping so many like blast shield down, you know, training, memories and associations. But what it tells her about her power and his belief in her power and that that is the key lesson. It is just what you bring. It's what you bring with you. And that can be your fear that when you cut the mask, why you're going to see your own face instead of Vader's. Or it can be the power that somebody else is going to allow you finally to believe you can tap into and discover. Yeah.

Great. Might go into that cave, look into a mirror, and it's just only you. As far back as the eye can see. The Last Jedi. Great movie. What a great movie. Fantastic film. Absolutely fantastic film. We're wrapping up this section. We want to say a quick shout out, a brief return to the Enemies to Lovers trope. We did a whole episode on the Enemies to Lovers trope. Yeah. It was a great one. I want to shout out that episode. I want to shout out the Vampire Tropes course because there's a lot of vampire coded stuff here. Oh, yeah. If you're a fan of vampire stuff...

This is feeding right into that. But the enemies to lovers trope, I just want to talk about really quickly. Oftentimes when we talk about this trope, especially with a lot of the characters that you and I talked about in that episode, it's a pull to the light. It's Brienne pulling Jamie to the light. You know, it is Kate pulling Sawyer to the light or Juliet pulling Sawyer, whatever you prefer. It is like someone, I can fix him. He'll change for me. All of that sort of toxic stuff that we don't like in real life, but we love in our fiction. Like that's what the trope

Almost always is. But occasionally. Yeah. And I know this from all the fan fiction that I've been reading the last couple of years. Occasionally, it's a pull to the dark side. And it's like, enjoy this power. Let go. Stop being such a goody two shoes. Join me on the dark side. Isn't it more fun? Isn't it where you belong? Isn't this where you should be?

Shout out to Dark Ray in The Rise of Skywalker. You were cool in the trailer and then just like really only very briefly. I was cool in the trailer. Yeah, it was. But I just think, you know, we're watching this. This is great. This is the story we've wanted this whole time. All of these scenes were just absolutely fantastic. Love.

Lingering mysteries we've already addressed. Who is his master or who put that scar on his back? Yeah. For Nestor Rowe. Duh. Where'd you get that scar? How do you think I got it? Looks like someone stabbed you in the back. I would say that was not maybe the best line of an otherwise great stretch. Yeah. Someone who threw me away. Your Jedi master. Cut to... Again, if you're not watching the videos, you just missed Mallory's incredible force whipping that she just did. Wonderful.

And then how old is Kymer? And as we already, like, went through that. Did he train with Sol? That's a question, right? Like, so Vern is also quite old. Oh, yeah. Or mature. Has been around for a long time. Mature. Yeah. I'm sorry. I just, I got lost in thought for a second because I need...

I can't, I don't think our beloved soul who we adore and who has touched us so deeply, I don't think we can stand one more character assassination hit of him being like,

Oh, yeah. That's why you felt familiar. Because we like we dug coal together. We trained together. We dug coal together. But you're still young and I've aged. Do you know what I mean? Like you're not as old as you should be. Yeah. I don't need it. I'm just I'm introducing it as a possibility. Was Vern his master or just someone at the academy who's like, get this, throw this trash out? You know, who's to say? That's it. That's all I have for Unknown Planet. Great.

Those little creatures. Release the merch. I can't... I know I said this last week, but I'm actually enraged that the helmet, first of all, sold out. Second of all, not available until 2025. Wait, it sold out before you could pre-order? Between now and 2025, can't we put more off for sale? I don't... It should be either or. This should be available immediately. Who's making it? It's part of the Black Series line. No free ads, but... Of which I have many items. No free ads, but...

Of which I am an enthusiastic patron. Show free ads and no abusing our platform, but wouldn't it look nice on that shelf behind Mallory? I'm just saying. I would just wear it on my head and do the podcast that way. Exactly. And then nobody would have to see me. It would be better in every respect. Hobbitsanddragons.gmail.com. Thank you so much. All right. Dateline. Just outside Kaffar. There's no time and space. I don't know. They take off in the daytime. Who knows how long they're there. Okay.

Calling this a curious case of Detective Basil. Yeah. Great showing for our guy Basil. Humiliating L for our guy Saul. It's Tom. It's Tom. Pretty good showing for Pip, too. Pip gets his hits in while he can. I'm in mourning for Pip. The factory reset is... He deserved a better fate. I have to hope that there's like a backup in the cloud somewhere.

I hope so. I'm counting on it. What do the red eyes make you think of? Lola. Lola. Yeah. 3PO? 3PO, but more Lola than anything else. Okay. Silver lining. I loved watching Li Zhengjie's performance.

when Sol privately and quietly entirely lost his shit. This was my favorite. This is what I was referencing. This is my favorite. This is what Kymer says to him last week. I've accepted my darkness. What have you done with yours? Not a lot. Here it is, bubbling to the surface in Sol. This was incredible. So good. The punch, the tears in his eyes, the despair, but also the rage, that feeling of helplessness. Directed inward. It's, it,

It's inward and it's pulsating, emanating off of him all at once. And I hated seeing him sad, but I loved that we saw this from him. Because it feels...

impermissible right and we're watching the seduction of his former padawan through that lens the thing that they didn't let like ever let you think you could show or do or feel her master is displaying that as well and he has to do it alone in private alone he can't let her see it alone i also just the other thing i really liked about this moment

Surprising that there was even space for this in a short episode. We've had a number of short episodes in a row, but it made me think a little bit of that opening stretch of Ahsoka, the treasure hunt stretch, right? And we were... Many people were like, can we speed it up? And we were like, it's cool to just linger in a moment with a character. And so to just... The camera was just on Sol's face for a full minute. Yeah. And that was wonderful. It was so good. We're not buying...

At least Moller's not buying this whole soul saying, how could I not see it? And May saying, I think when you really want something, it can cloud your mind. You see what you want to see. He fooled us all. This made me mad. I'm not going to lie. It's actually pissed me off. It did. As an excuse for him not being able to figure out that that is May in front of him. Yeah. Like.

We get to see him punch the table. It feels amazing. We get to see him bring a reluctant May into a hug. But I don't know, that hug was like very, very grabby. Very odd. Very constraining.

Similar to him like chaining her up. I just really like the contrast of like Chimera's hands off, gentle touch approach. Totally. And Sol's grasping, grabbing, restraining. Yes, I need to hold on to this thing that I feel like has gotten away from me. Also, that was where it started to swing because I'm like, okay, I'm sorry, but like he can't sense her. She's literally in his arms. He can't sense that this is not his Padawan. And then we built the, how could I not have sensed that villain's true intentions when we first met him on a lega?

I think when you really want something, it can cloud your mind. You see what you want to see. He fooled us all. So on the one hand, it's like a little bit of a bridge for the two characters, which I like because she's talking about herself as much as him. How could I not have realized that this was the same guy who was under the helmet? That part was interesting. To show us that Sol is at least asking the same questions that we are, okay. It's just, it's difficult to read it as anything but like,

shameless cover for the fact that this doesn't make sense yeah you know so that that that really was a demerit i don't know that i fully feel like i had can pinpoint exactly when he knew that it was may though because there's a reading that you can because basil's scurrying all over that ship up and down various ducks when soul finally shoots her with the stun gun yeah

Then we just see Basil like right there next to him sniffing the air. So it feels like it's just right then and not until then. It could be, but it also could have been the scene before because like she loses track of Basil. She sees him under the like, you know, there's like a part where they're separated. Anyway. Yeah. I will wait to be told what exactly he knew. I don't think it is 1000% clear from the episode, but the answer no matter what is way, it took way longer than it should have. And we don't like that very much. Yeah.

And then Argyle Saul paints the biggest target in the galaxy on his back, right? He's been dithering about telling the truth about Brendog. The ditherers of Dragonstone? For so long, it's gotten quite annoying to the audience, right? That's the other thing, though, about not sensing her through the Force. It's hard to read it as anything but an excuse to delay this final moment of candid recognition, which is then only another excuse to delay the big reveal.

I just, the pacing is really awesome. I agree. And there's a way for him to get Mae on that ship without like him having to have fallen for this, like, you know,

Yeah. Subterfuge, right? There's a way in which she's like, come with me. She said she was going to turn herself over to the Jedi. Couldn't she just come up and say like, Yeah. Osha's gone. She's not. That was the aspect of the twin swap that was appealing those first few episodes is they each choose to take the other path. This like, asking us to believe that people who are supposed to be powerful in the Force can't tell. I,

I don't know. It's a tough one. Okay, but Saul promises for real this time that he is going to tell us what happened on Brandock for real. Yeah, and also the entire council. In next week's episode. And he says, it's time to make things right. It's time for me to face the High Council to tell them everything. I'm sure Vern's going to be thrilled. Everything? We're going to get to that right away. Before we do, do you want to eulogize Pip in any kind of way? I'm with you. I'm hoping...

Dreaming, praying. I don't pray, but if I did, it would be for this, for PIP to be restored. I don't dream. I'm an active and inventive dreamer. I have an anxious dream. Oh, I have work anxiety dreams all the time, but then I also have like vivid, very exciting dreams. I remember someone who works here came to my house and it was too many people. What were we doing? Were we podcasting? Just hanging out? Being in my space. Hmm.

Was it, did the space look like a cortosis-veined cave? Was there a cauldron of stew? Yeah, and I said, you know, back to you in the studio. Oh, God. Yeah, I would like Pip to be restored, though...

And depending on where Osha's going, you know, it's a little bit of a Padme. Like, I can hear Pip and Padme's voice like, don't go or I can't follow. Like, maybe the red eyes. It's like, maybe it's got to be dark Pip if he's meant to be reunited with Osha. Now, I don't know that I want to see Pip fall to the dark side, but maybe...

Maybe that's what awaits. Sick. Sheesh. Sick. Sad. Okay. It's not the crime, it's the cover-up. This is our last section. It's Vern. We're going to go... Vern and your new favorite character, Mog. I got to say, okay, here's the deal with Mog. Here's the deal with Mog. Yeah. Which may or may not be a Spaceballs reference. Half man, half dog.

I'm going to butcher his name even though it's Welsh and I'm Welsh, but Harry Trevaldwyn, who was playing Mog. I know him from TikTok. It's a TikToker who I like, and I was just sort of excited to see him. And I was like, you're in a Star War. So I was like, very sweet. Like he's, he's.

Like, he's a comedian. He's been in things. He's been around, but I know him quite well from TikTok. Not quite well. It's not like we know each other. Anyway, I'm familiar with his work. He does great parodies of, like, terrible, posh British women without, like, putting makeup on or whatever. He just, like, speaks into the camera about being these, like, terrible women, and it's very funny. Okay. Okay.

Incredible. So shout out him. Why haven't you sent me one of these TikToks? I will tonight. Even though Steve knows I deleted TikTok off my phone like four months ago and he keeps sending me TikToks and I'm like, sorry, I deleted it. Okay. Great stuff. Let's just hear this very important thing that happens before we even get. We're in Coruscant. Yeah. Day or night. Who's to say? It's day. Actually, we've got an external shot. Okay. We're in Coruscant.

Let's hear this exchange, please, Steve. Senator Rayancourt continues to gain support. My colleagues in the expansion region will vote in favor of an external review of the order. Rayancourt has never been a friend of the Jedi, but I worry his fear has convinced so many. A review should not be cause for alarm. The Jedi are always transparent with the Senate. This is a case of an ambitious senator grasping for power. Apologies, Senator. I must go. But thank you for your update.

Her fear and anxiety here is like awfully dark side coded for me, right? I'm not, I don't think she's a Sith at all, but I think she's capable of doing some shady stuff. Like using her whip to cast her.

A reminder? Deeply feeling Padawan out of the Jedi Order and into the dark abyss? I remember, remember, remember the first time we saw her. Not the 5th of November, but remember the first time we saw her. When she walks in, opens the door, hasn't used a door handle in a millennia or whatever. A couple centuries. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And that's when the young Padawan goes, I see fire. Yeah. Right? Yeah. A fire that she set on Brendock? No. I don't think she was on Brendock. Because she's like, why didn't you tell me? Remember? Yes. I don't think she's on Brendock. I have some questions about the why didn't you tell me. Senator Rancourt. Could this be David Harewood's character? I like it. He's going to show up in some cool senatorial robes and be like, you need some oversight. Do you want more politics in your accolade?

Do I want more Vern in my acolyte? I don't, like, I do not. I am unafraid to say I do not want more Vern in my acolyte. Anyway, there's the senator who's, you know, rabble-rousing and getting support and anti-Jedi sentiment. Yes. Oversight is needed of the Jedi Council. Oh no, I hope there aren't any shady Jedi secrets out there that might put them in a bad light. So it helps to, knowing that this is afoot,

this effort to police the Jedi who then seek to police everyone else, it helps...

shed more light on what was fueling Vern's comments in episode four, the High Council will be obliged to inform the Senate. A scandal like this would inspire fear and mistrust. We should handle this ourselves. And we're like, this is like a very paranoid energy to be bringing here. And of course, then we know that the Jedi are always transparent with the Senate. It's just not true. So it feels like this is going to blow up. But how much blow up can there be

If nobody knows about the Sith. Let's do our best Basil impression and get on the case, okay? So she certainly does not want anyone, including Saul, to go blabbing to the High Council. Yep. Or anyone else about what happened on Brendock. Not right now, not ever, but certainly not right now. So Saul saying, I can't wait to talk to the High Council about what happened on Brendock. Bad news for our guy Saul, I think, in this moment, right? She certainly does not want it to be known that a scary dude in a mask...

running around with scars on his back that perfectly match the whip pattern of her lightsaber is someone she once knew or trained or could be responsible for. Yes. Right? Mm-hmm. She's also got a massacre in Kfar. Massacre? Esakar? She's also got a massacre in Kfar to explain. Were you relieved to know that they were going to be taking the bodies for burial? Deeply. Our beloved Jackie will not be left to rot amid the spores. Like she's hanging in King's Landing? Okay. Oh my God.

Our guy Mog. Yes. Yes. Consummate space twink Mog is like, you don't think Master So was responsible? That is quite the accusation, she says. Who else would possess the power to slay such a strong group? Also, in this same sequence, by the way, we get a they must have survived somehow, which I consider a somehow Palpatine return reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here, here Vern isn't like, Vern isn't,

putting her foot on the gas in terms of, like, framing Sol. Mm-hmm. But she doesn't... She's like, ooh! ...more firmly deny it. Entice him. And it's sort of like, that would be... Quote. That would be convenient. Okay? So we thought they were going to pin Kha'Far on Kelnaka, but wouldn't it be tidier and more convenient to pin Brendok and Kha'Far on Sol? Mm-hmm. And pretend Chimera never existed at all. Mm-hmm.

If there's a huge cover up here orchestrated by Vern and she's like, what Sith? It was Saul who went berserk on K'Far. It was Saul who went berserk on Brendok. No Sith ever existed. Don't you think that goes a long way into explaining why the Sith never emerged from this storyline? Yeah, I would want the person responsible for that depth of cover up to have been a more interesting character.

This isn't about litigating whether or not we like Mersh. So, yeah, I think the... In the... Ooh, so... Let's room soul. Interesting moment. It seems like just when they're going through this crime scene. How much do you think she...

Can see. She's like, there was a mighty duel. So it felt like she was using psychometry. Because we're hearing little glimpses of snippets of dialogue and actual moments. So then if we're playing out the string of the theory of was Chimera her Padawan? I was like, can she...

actually hear him, but then maybe not because of the cortosis, but then the cortosis came off. So then she should have been able to. So does she actually genuinely know? And to be clear, in the quotes that we hear, we don't hear Kyler's voice. No. And that's why I was like, was it because of the helmet? But then maybe does she not stay around to just let the tape roll? Right. You know? He takes it off. Takes it off. Our beloved Jackie knocked it off. No, no, no. No. So the psychometry was interesting because there's also just like when we're thinking about Byrne's

not just longevity in the High Republic timeline, but power. There was that, oh, you're coming with us? Like, don't you get nauseous when we go into hyperspace? Which Ben wrote about this a little bit in his column, but that connection to these Force visions that Vern has, which is actually... That it makes her, like, stronger in the Force. Yeah, and, like, that's why she's got the light whip, because of a vision. So, like, just thinking about her power and how she's tapping into her power and what's distinct about it, interesting. And the whip...

As far as I understand, the whip was like... Those poor umber moths, man. What did they do other than wake up in their own home? Loom medicine, you mean? If a moth that big came after you, what would you do? I should have asked if I could walk through your forest. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would just run and scream. The whip is non-regulation. Otherwise, more people would have it, right? Right, right.

And she basically sort of like had to convince them to let her have the whip because she had the vision. It is very cool. And I love merch. But if she used it to create the stranger, that's tough. The OK, so like the before they head out and even get there, the I need to handle this personally. Yeah, yeah. That was what made me kind of go back to that exchange in episode four. The why didn't you tell me that May could have survived? Because like it and then we go back to the far as she's sussing out. That's it's CSI Kofar, right?

Facts on the ground. In terms of Theory Corner, I really liked this. It gives us a lot. In terms of the flow and pacing of the episode, again, I was like, this is so inert and just a logical use of time at this point because we know what happened, first of all. We know they will be able to see that lightsabers... Yeah.

are responsible. And so they're like, let's check in with the locals when we land and have them tell us an Umbermoth colony. Like, that was just bizarre. Really, really bizarre. Okay. They get there and then she says, she repeats the line, something to tip the scales. So,

What did she say? When did that come up in episode four? She said it to Sol. I fear May is only a small part of her master's larger plan, a plan that is difficult to see, some sort of shift, something to tip the scales. So is that something, something that she had previously glimpsed in her panel on? Yeah, I really, I love that. I don't know that I need her to be involved in Brendock at all, but I love that idea that like,

That's something to tip the scales is a phrase that she associates with him. Right. So but I guess the reason that the Brendock possibility seems open to me is like, why would she care? Not like in a human way. Because it's a PR disaster. Just because of the and then and then one PR disaster leads to another once they're looking into them. Yeah. What else might they uncover? Why don't you tell me? Oh, you had an evil Padawan. Yeah. You scarred and kicked out. Yeah. Interesting. OK. So here's a possibility. And then we'll call it a day. Yeah.

She frames Saul for everything. Yep. Saul either does not make it out of here alive or Chekhov's mind wipe that Chimera brought up in episode two, she alters his memory so he thinks he did do it all and they lock him away. That would be very sad. Everyone at the end of this should either be dead or have their memory wiped for this thing to stay a secret. Other than, we hope, Chimera and Osha off to...

a desert planet somewhere so their forest training is very sweaty the fuck apocalypse I love it the that is hearing you say that I now have like a little more room in my heart for the we see what we want to see line as well because maybe that's setting us maybe that's priming us a little bit for Sol being more vulnerable to that kind of he's so vulnerable mind messing mind meddling yeah yeah he's so vulnerable like what do you think he did on Brandock did he do it did he witness it and let it happen what will we learn

I think the Jedi are responsible, whether he directly or no, for killing all those witches. But they did it because they were being possessed in some way. Because I don't know if you remember, but Osha let us know last week that her mom can slip into the mind of a Jedi. Yeah. I did like Mog's description of one versus many. Kind of the sandwich around, you know, power one, power two, power many. One versus many. Where's the two? Somehow Palpatine returned. Odd. Somehow.

Coconin is directing episode seven, so we believe it is either entirely or we hope partially the finally the answer. I like this idea of if Chimere is able to tell her some version and then we get Sol telling May a different version. So we get two different versions in that same episode.

That way we have three versions to think about. That way we are all left. And Leslie has sort of insinuated this in interviews.

That they're never going to answer one way or another what exactly happened. That we're all going to be able, or we're all going to have to decide for ourselves what actually happened on Brandock. Yeah, which is interesting. Because ultimately the thing that matters is what they all did with what they thought happened, where that led them. Right. And so the actual specifics, sadly, tragically, are actually like not that important. Yeah.

But they are for how they inform how at least, let's say, these young women think about the Jedi versus... Yes, and who was in the right and who was in the wrong and who sought to manipulate some sort of state of play. Do you think there's any chance we get... Because I like what you're saying about we'll get the Sol account and then maybe we get the Stranger account, which either he has some direct access to or got through May. Yeah.

Though in theory, May could be the one who provided that account in the same storyline as Sol. Like if they're telling each other, no, this would happen. No, this is what happened. So part of my question is like, one, are they going to be talking about it in the present and then we kind of move into and glimpse the past? Or will we just pick up in the past and then kind of understand that they were discussing that? But then also, we really want.

our faves in this episode yeah you know yeah like there's a part of me that's like okay you know we're always like team show don't tell but like if they're telling at least it's the people we want to be with yeah so that's I have been experiencing a little bit more with myself over that I'm not sure of two minds and then are we gonna get the chimera backstory

in the next episode as well. Or will that wait for our final confrontation between him and Vern? I don't think we need a flashback of that. No, but just a discussion of what happened. A discussion of it. So maybe that's finale. Well, well, well. No, no, no, no. Okay, so yeah. OSHA version, Chimera version, Soul version. I kind of like that as like a light side, dark side, neutral side. What, you know, what actually happened there kind of idea. Anything else we want to say before we go? I don't think so. No, it felt good to hold

again. Wig wash, I'll just say Vern's away team had some incredible wigs. Yeah. Iconic. Not just the Padawan. There was just like a lot of different braiding going on. I just want to shout it out. Maybe Vern who has no hair on her head is like go wild with your braids. My team. That does it for this House of R. Yeah. Thank you as always to Mallory Rubin.

Someone who loves as deeply as I do. Thank you to John Richter for all the embellishments on this video, especially the new thirst corner. Wow. Valerie just did a thing with her mouth. Okay. Thank you to Steve Allman for his...

Hours and hours of work cutting all of our podcasts right now. It's just so much work. Thank you to Arjuna McPhail for his work in making everything function. Is the room cool enough? Do you have enough water? I feel great here today. Wonderful. A normal 65 degrees. Arjuna. A very,

reason about 65 degrees and to Joe B. Aduneron for his work on the social for Clippin's probably some of the worst things we've ever said on a podcast out of this episode terrifying and releasing it in isolation on social terrifying to consider what might be chosen today we will be back on Sunday right after episode 4 do it of House of the Dragon of House of the Dragon drops with Talk Thrones with Chris Ryan and we'll see you then