Closing Arguments, Gaza Tragedy, Deadly Storms
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Voters 50 and over have the power to decide elections. So candidates who want to win need to talk about the issues they care about. Learn more from our latest polling in Pennsylvania at aarp.org slash PA polling. Overnight, Duncan's pumpkin spice coffee has sent folks into a cozy craze. I'm Lauren LaTulip reporting live from home in my hand-knit turtleneck that my Nana made me. Mmm, cinnamony. The home with Duncan is where you want to be.

It's Tuesday, May 28th. Right now on CNN This Morning, closing arguments set to begin in Donald Trump's hush money trial. Defense lawyers preparing to try to tear down the credibility of the prosecution's star witness. Displaced Gazans burned alive by an Israeli attack. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling the killings a, quote, tragic error. And deadly storms, spawning tornadoes, at least 23 people killed in five states during a dangerous and destructive holiday weekend.

And North Korea's attempt to launch another spy satellite into orbit ending shortly after liftoff in a fiery explosion. Plus a Trump Oprah ticket? If you turn back the clock, apparently it wasn't that far-fetched. Do you have a vice presidential candidate in mind? Oprah. I love Oprah. Oprah would always be my first choice.

All right, 6 a.m. here in Washington. There's a live look at New York City on this pretty historic day in that town, honestly. Good morning, everyone. I'm Casey Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us. Twelve jurors soon to decide whether a former U.S. president is a criminal. Closing arguments are set to begin this morning in Donald Trump's hush money trial. The jury could get the case by tomorrow after hearing instructions from the judge.

CNN has learned that Trump's lawyers intend to focus once again on the credibility of Michael Cohen, who is the only witness whose testimony directly linked the former president to a hush money payment made to adult film star Stormy Daniels and, of course, to the alleged cover-up.

Trump, as we've come to expect, trying to insist the whole proceeding is unfair, posting this, quote, Why is the corporate government allowed to make the final argument in the case against me? Why can't the defense go last? Big advantage. Very unfair. Witch hunt. DJT. One of Trump's lawyers from his civil case attacking the judge.

I have zero confidence in the fact that this person who should not be sitting on the bench right now will do the right thing and give jury instructions that are in an appropriate manner without any persuasion towards the prosecution. All right, panel's here. Former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams, David Frum, staff writer for The Atlantic.

former RNC communications director Doug High and former White House comms director Kate Bedingfield welcome all thank you so much for being here I'm Elliot can we just start with the technical thing because it's what he's complaining about which is that the defense gets to go first or has to go first here what's up with that he's just misinformed it's a common practice for the prosecution to go defense to follow them the prosecution to come back with a rebuttal I think he wants a fight but he's saying the defense is going to go first and then the prosecution so that

in New York cases that's often how they do it either way the prosecution would typically get the last word whether in the form of a rebuttal or simply going after the defense because it's their burden and they're ultimately responding to the arguments the defense brings typically the prosecution will go last but it's another half-truth by the former president about the legal system that plants chum in the water for his supporters and people get whipped up

believing that the system is stacked against him. Yeah, I mean, and David from isn't that really what we're talking about big picture here, we're gonna probably this week find out if there's going to be a conviction in this case. And the question we've been asking the entire time is, will it matter? And if he's acquitted, or if there's a hung jury? Does that potentially matter even more because of the lack of faith that he is trying to engender in the system?

Well, his lawyers look like they're doing a normal kind of defense, trying to cast doubt on the key witness. You can't trust this person. He worked for Donald Trump. Would you trust somebody who worked for Donald Trump? Obviously, if you work for Donald Trump, you're a liar and a crook. Why would anyone trust someone who worked for Donald Trump? That's going to be the defense sum up. But Donald Trump himself is on the next move, which is getting ready to be convicted.

Getting ready to be, it's a first. We've had the first African-American president. We have the first female vice president. At last, the criminal American community will at last have a representative in high office. It's a great day for diversity. It's a great day for the criminal American community. So he's getting ready to teach his supporters that being a criminal should be no bar to being president.

Yeah, I mean, Doug High, as our resident Republican at the table, I mean, David, I should say, you know, I'm a registered Republican. I voted for the D.C. primary. But Doug, I mean, does this, I mean, this is but the latest institution that Donald Trump is tearing down, right, the court system for his own kind of political gain. And it does seem as though, you know,

It doesn't seem to me, I guess, that this is going to fundamentally change the dynamics of the election. Either way, maybe a conviction does. But it does seem like people, if anything, this trial and the contents of this trial are things that push people into their respective camps further. What is your view of that question?

question. Not everybody's in those camps. And there's a subset of voters out there. They're the undecided voters. They don't like Donald Trump and they don't like Joe Biden. A conviction may matter to those voters, maybe not all of them, but 20 percent or 40 percent. Pretty soon you start talking real numbers, because if you're showing polling about Robert F. Kennedy or Cornel West or whomever, you're talking about a

pocket of voters in Dearborn, Michigan, or a pocket of voters in Tempe, Arizona, or Winston-Salem, North Carolina, those voters matter if there's convection. If not, Donald Trump's gonna go on his grand acquittal exoneration tour, and we know what that show's going to look like.

what we and then we have seen polling in voters have repeatedly been asked if he is convicted would that influence your vote we've seen even fairly significant share of republicans throughout the republican primary process said a conviction would matter to them now act i tend to believe for the most part this trial one way or the other is not going to be determinative in the election uh... you know and i think you've seen the biden campaign keep a sort of hands-off

approach which I think you know if there is a hung jury will benefit them right because they have not gone all in on the idea that you know Trump's criminality in this case is somehow central you know to Joe Biden's being reelected and so I think you know they've kind of bought themselves some space here if there is a hung jury when and Trump will which we know Trump will certainly you know parade out and say I was wronged and see you know I this this I've been exonerated and

I you know I think the Biden campaign has has been smart in kinda buying themselves I some space here but it you know it's gonna be interesting no problem with some questions raised about what by will do it the Biden team will do in the wake up a very I mean what should they do what do you think they will but how do you think they're gonna approach at that point yeah so look I think they this

trial is part of the kind of broader picture that they're painting about Trump. Like this is not, you know, how whether he's found guilty or not in this particular case, the ins and outs of this particular case don't have an impact on people's day-to-day lives, right? But

it it's part of a broader picture of Trump is somebody who only cares about himself who he who himself has gone out and said that this campaign is about getting retribution for this kind of thing and for being wronged and so I think you know they I don't think that they should adjust their strategy and start zeroing in on on Trump's criminality I think to most people

which is also sort of a crazy thing to say, right? Like the former president's criminal trial doesn't feel relevant. But to most people, the truth is politically it doesn't. And so I think they need to stay focused on their case about the economy, democracy, chaos.

and not allow the the outcome here to change their strategy but by the camp it's a very big and very baggy coalition and his and the president's problem is he has to corral two separate groups of voters yes to bring back some the least committed voters some of the least well-informed he has big trouble people get the overwhelming preponderance in the news from social media never read any news at all just know what's on tick tock and yes to and they respond to a very bread and butter message

At the same time, he's dealing with the people like me who voted for Republicans in primaries but who don't find Donald Trump unacceptable, who are highly committed voters and who don't like most of his agenda. But look at him as the firefighter in charge of putting out this particular fire before we can go back to our normal voting patterns. And politically, there's one group of people who really matter and are looking forward to this verdict. They're called fundraisers. Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, you're going to raise a lot of money this week.

Yeah, well, and to your point, David, I mean, the voters who are following this closely are also following it closely and don't need Joe Biden to be driving the message to, you know, to absorb what's happening here. So fair enough. All right. Ahead here, the White House assessing whether Israel crossed a red line in Rafa, plus new fallout from Justice Samuel Alito's upside down flag controversy and a million dollar yacht sinks off of the Florida coast. That is one of five things you've got to see this morning.

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. What are some of the social service agencies that have supported you and your family growing up? That's Dr. Robert Waldinger. He's a psychiatrist, a professor, and a Zen master. What kind of relationships actually help us maintain happiness? And what should we do in those moments where we have setbacks and things that don't work out? Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts.

-Gratitude to our fallen heroes, gratitude to the families left behind, and gratitude to the brave souls who continue to uphold the flame of liberty all across our country and around the world. We'll never, ever, ever stop working for tomorrow to make a more perfect union, which they lived and which they died for. God bless the fallen. May God bless their families, and may God protect our troops.

President Biden spending his Memorial Day, as most U.S. presidents do, honoring our fallen service members at Arlington National Cemetery. His predecessor went in a different direction yesterday. Donald Trump posting this on Truth Social. Happy Memorial Day to all, including the human scum that is working so hard to destroy our once great country.

He then goes on to trash the New York judge that presided over a pair of civil defamation cases involving the writer E. Jean Carroll. And David Frum, I mean, look, this is not the first time that Donald Trump has done something like this. If you want to flash all the way back to 2017, he visited Arlington National Cemetery with John Kelly, who was then his chief of staff.

And, of course, Kelly's son is a fallen Marine officer. And reportedly Trump turned to Kelly and said, "I don't get it. What was in it for them?" Once upon a time in this country there were three TV channels. And they competed for their one-third plus the audience. And they all were bland and inoffensive and tried not to upset anybody. And then came cable and you created all these little channels that said, "We can upset a lot of people if we can get just a few."

So I think the thing to understand about Joe Biden is doing what the big channels used to do. He's speaking to all Americans in ways that offend nobody. And Donald Trump has this his tick has always been I'm going after the people who don't like the rules.

I'm going after those who don't like the ceremonies, don't care, don't think it speaks to them, and who just are looking for this channel for aggression. And that's what he was doing. I mean, he woke up on that morning feeling full of rage and bile, and he expressed it. And there are rage-filled, bilious people in this country to whom that speaks. We hope not enough, and we hope most people are inspired by the message of honor and duty and sacrifice and those broad American things that...

This current president, like every president but one, has always spoken to. - So it presents the question, are we past the point in America, in the American experiment, where America actually wants the Walter Cronkite evening news, right? And let's take this out of the news discussion generally.

That sort of vitriol seems to fly with people right now. And it's not just in terms of their news consumption. Social media is another place where people sort of anger cells. And I just wonder, to your point, David, I do just wonder if why something is resonating in the anger that Trump is pushing.

I do think, though, that there's-- so I would normally agree with you. And I certainly think that he is trying-- he's channeling anger in a way that is connecting with people. And there's a lot that we need to understand about that. I do think, though, when you are-- on a day when you're celebrating fallen soldiers, who most people in this country have a family tie to or a friend.

And he takes it and makes it about him. He's like the guy in your friend group who turns everything to him. And it's obnoxious, and it gets old. And so I think there's an element of tapping into anger that certainly resonates with people. But on a day that when even people who are

as bought into the Trump dogma as possible would say is about honoring people who you sacrifice for this country that we all love taking it and making it about him and his personal grievances

I just, I believe, maybe I'm like from an old soul, like Walter Cronkite type, but I just don't believe that that's what people want in their leadership. I just don't believe it. If and when this is all over, I think the epitaph will be that line, I've quoted it before on the show from the novel The Long Goodbye, you talk too damn much and too damn much of it is about you. Yeah, yeah.

All right, that's a good note to end on. Still to come here, residents of Texas and Oklahoma bracing for dangerous storms again today. Plus, terrifying moments as a Cessna crash lands on the tarmac. It's one of five things we think you have to see this morning.

All right, welcome back. 47 million people in the southern plains under severe storm threats. The brunt of it expected in Texas and Oklahoma again. Violent storms and tornadoes ripped across multiple states this weekend, killing 23. In Texas, seven people died. The town of Valley View, especially hard hit. Another eight people were killed in Arkansas. The worst damage in the northwest part of the state. Tried to make it to the hallway. That's the most central part of our house. And that's when we realized we didn't have a roof.

our meteorologist Allison Chinchar tracking the latest system for us. Allison, what are you seeing?

Yeah, Casey. So it's an entirely new system, but it's really going to impact a lot of the same places that were hit just over the holiday weekend. And we're talking about most of the southern plains. You can see right here, this is going to be the target point for the day today. We've already got severe thunderstorm watches in effect, basically just south of Oklahoma City. And then that goes through Dallas. That's we've had some additional counties added in just the last hour because this is where the most active storms are. You can see a tremendous

tremendous amount of lightning that is headed into Dallas. We could potentially get some power outages from some of these storms. We've got some very strong lines of thunderstorms. You can see several severe thunderstorm warnings in effect as well. Those very, very gusty winds also could lead to some power outages. Now, as we go through the rest

Today, more of that line is going to fill in, especially after lunchtime. That's going to continue into the evening hours. You can see then it really starts to form a little bit of a line there once we get to around sunset tonight. So that secondary round coming back into Dallas, eventually into Houston during the overnight and into the very early morning hours. So overall, the biggest concern is going to be hail and damaging winds, but we can't rule out the potential for a tornado again as well today. All right. Allison Chinchar for us. Allison, thank you very much.

All right, 24 minutes past the hour, five things you have to see this morning. A storm chaser capturing this impressive footage of a massive funnel cloud churning and gaining momentum in southern Missouri on Sunday. It turned into a tornado right in front of his camera. They say any landing you walk away from is a good landing. That was the case when a plane was forced to crash land in Sydney, Australia after losing power. The two passengers escaped uninjured.

A rocket carrying a suspected North Korean spy satellite exploding just after launch. This is the second time in six months North Korea has failed to successfully get the satellite into orbit. An 80-foot yacht sinking after hitting an object in Florida. Two people were rescued following the incident. Yikes. It's still not clear what exactly the yacht struck. It's a little bit daunting. I just knew that I had to relax and go with it.

Okay, dairy lovers in Gloucestershire, England chasing wheels of cheddar cheese down treacherous terrain yesterday in the annual Cooper's Hill Cheese Roll. This event has been going on since at least 1826, raising so many questions about our collectivism as a species. Still kind of amazing.

All right, coming up next here, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling Sunday's deadly Rafah airstrike a tragic error. Did it cross President Biden's red line? Plus, late night host Jimmy Kimmel thanking doctors and his family after his son undergoes successful heart surgery.

Welcome back. The White House now considering whether a red line was crossed when an Israeli strike on Rafah killed at least 45 displaced Palestinians at a tent camp. President Biden threatened earlier this month to suspend the delivery of some offensive weapons if Israel entered population centers in Rafah. Here was the response from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Despite our best effort not to harm those not involved, unfortunately, a tragic error happened last night and we are investigating the case.

Netanyahu told the White House that the explosion from the strike ignited a fuel tank nearby and started a fire that engulfed the tent camp. Our panel's back. Kate Bedingfield, I just want to remind our viewers what the president told our Aaron Burnett about his red line in terms of continuing to provide weapons here. Let's watch. They're going to Rafah. I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem.

We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out of the Middle East recently. But it's just wrong. We're not going to supply the weapons and the artillery shells used that have been used. Artillery shells as well. Yeah, artillery shells.

So there you have it. I mean, this is obviously a continually difficult, first of all, humanitarian situation, period, but also political situation for the president. There are going to be a lot of questions this morning about what are they going to do in response to what happened in Rafa. What do you think is on the table for them?

yeah well having what they're clearly going to undertake a serious investigation they're gonna hear well how the Israelis explain what happened here I think you know ultimately they have a broader goal of ensuring that Israel has what it needs to defeat Hamas I think that is the president's North Star on this

but I also think that it's very hard for the president to say what you heard him say and then for there to not be action in response to something like this when there you see are seeing so many civilian deaths I think I'm you know for the president he has to think about

you know when he says something backing it up with action and I think it's hard to make a declarative statement like he made to Aaron Burnett which I think was you know born out of a desire to see fewer civilian deaths and to see this conflict move to a place where people are not suffering in the way that they're suffering right now but I think when you say things like that you then have to back it up so it is complicated and obviously terrible things happen in war and I'm sure they will listen and hear out the Israelis on what happened here but

you know from a public perspective from a communications perspective i think it's very hard for him to not take some action here david what do you um see as the imperative here for the president um the president has been the best friend israel has ever had in a conflict situation and

I know that I come from the pro-Israel world and there are many who doubt it, but I invite people just to cast their minds back to how little Lyndon Johnson did during the Six-Day War. Richard Nixon did a lot more in the October War, but he never gave direct kind of U.S. involvement. There have been American warships shooting down missiles aimed at Israel. The president has visited Israel twice during this conflict. No president has ever done anything like that. Ronald Reagan never visited Israel at all during his presidency.

So there is going to be some chafing at the pushback that is probably going to come, but it needs to be remembered this is all in the context of a president who has been at Israel's side through this terrible war. Doug? Yeah, I think of the term red lines and that words mean things. When I worked for Eric Cantor in the House,

Our office and John Boehner's office were working with the White House because President Obama said, "If you cross a red line with chemical weapons in Syria, there'll be consequences." And what happened was the White House then sort of walked away from all this and left us hanging. And we've seen global implications on that. Vladimir Putin has learned this. Certainly Hamas has learned this as well.

Quite often when red lines are crossed, there are no consequences. So what Biden does here has an international impact, but also very real domestic impacts. He's certainly being targeted by the far left of his base. Michigan's a very good example of that. He's in a no-good situation here, no-win situation. Yeah, so speaking of Michigan, Rashida Tlaib appeared at the People's Conference for Palestine conference

on Saturday. And she had this to say, we'll talk about who makes up that conference here in just a second, but she had this to say on stage, watch. It is disgraceful that the Biden administration and my colleagues in Congress continue to smear them for protesting to save lives, no matter faith or ethnicity. It is cowardly, but we're not gonna forget in November, are we?

So we're not going to forget in November, she said. So originally, remember, there was this undeclared campaign in Michigan that was aimed at the primary. And the thought was, well, he's not going to lose the primary in Michigan. We're going to make a statement. But that doesn't mean we're going to go vote against the president in the fall. Michigan could be the place where you win or lose an election. And now she's saying that these voters are not going to forget in November. Well, there has been a lot of attempt to magnify the

the voices of those on the far left of the American political spectrum, the people who vote for Ralph Nader and vote for Cornel West and really want to see the Democratic Party lose because they have this idea that if you get Donald Trump in, that'll create a revolutionary situation and then eventually the red banners will fly and they will win. And it's not a really smart plan, but it's the only plan that got. Meanwhile, the votes that are going to put President Biden over the top or not

are coming from disaffected Republicans, the people who voted for Nikki Haley even after she dropped out. That's the mother load of gettable votes in this country. - And look, I think broadly speaking, for her to attack Joe Biden this way probably helps him politically.

I think the majority of voters, I mean, sort of to David's point, the majority of voters he's trying to win over, frankly, the majority of voters in this country are broadly speaking supportive of Israel, want to see us stand by our ally there. And I think if someone who is representing the farthest left of the party, the most kind of vocal, aggressive, you know, we would take Joe Biden down even if that means Donald Trump becomes president.

if she's attacking Joe Biden, that probably helps her with, helps him rather, that probably helps him with the voters that he needs. Let's just play a little bit of what James Carville, who is clearly in a certain season of his life, had to say about Democratic messaging in general, but it relates to this. Take a look. We keep wondering why these young people aren't coming home to the Democrats. Why Blacks are not coming home to the Democrats?

Because Democratic messaging is full of s**t, that's why. And talk about cost of living. And we're going to help deal with this. And don't talk about f**king gossip and student loans. Okay, who wants to take that one? Well, I think what got cut off at the end there, he also yells, get off my lawn. So I think...

that that's it but okay mister Carville let's hear your thoughts then let's hear something constructive if you wanna see democrats be successful what are your thoughts on what democrats should be saying I think there's you know look at your every person to say that he says the cost of living okay and hope you bet so that president should go out and say the cost of living I just think you know look obviously the absolutely everybody has a right to criticize obviously James Carville has your tremendous political experience

I would welcome his constructive thoughts on what the Democrats should be doing better. I'm not sure that shouting effectively, get off my lawn, is helpful. Yeah. And the idea of a generation of leader or thinker looking back on the folks who've come after them and being critical of how they're doing it now is nothing new. I'm frankly, when he was one of the boys on the bus, I'm certain that the

folks from LBJ's campaign or whatever else. If you had a political system, never mind the personalities of today, where there were more blacks, young people, people of color in the Republican coalition and more homeowners and people with IRAs in the Democratic coalition, wouldn't that be a more stable? I mean, the kind of great rotation we're seeing, the changes in the two parties, of Democrats

the most educated out of the Republican Party and into the Democratic Party, the once monolithic communities defined by race becoming less monolithic, isn't that a good thing and conducive to the political stability of the country? If you think we're at a moment of political stability. I think we're at a moment of rotation whose outcomes could be positive. Very briefly, I do want to circle back

because I said I would mention it and Kate kind of raised this in terms of it helping Biden. Doug, I'm interested in your take. So this event that Rashida Tlaib spoke at, the National Review says that among the speakers at the Michigan event were Wissam Rafidi, an activist associated with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a Marxist-Leninist terror group active in Gaza and headquartered in the Syrian capital of Damascus. There is kind of this association there.

Yeah, and one of the things we see quite often now in Congress, Congress is very censure happy. So when Congress comes back into town, we could very easily see Republicans file some motion for censorship here. And also here Democrats not just maybe vote for it, but a lot of pushback on rhetoric. I expect Josh Gottheimer is going to be out there pretty loudly pushing back on this. And this creates, I think, some more tension in a Democratic conference or Democratic caucus in the House that doesn't need it. Yeah.

It's very, very emotional. All right. Coming up next here, how Donald Trump and President Biden are expected to react when a verdict is reached in Trump's criminal hush money trial. We'll let you guess. Plus, did Donald Trump actually once say Oprah would be the perfect running mate? Hint, yes. We'll show you next.

All right, 45 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. Donald Trump's lawyers asking a judge to reject a prosecution request for a gag order on the former president in his classified documents case. They are also asking the judge to hold the prosecutors who wrote the request in contempt. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez's corruption trial starts back up again today. The executive assistant to one of Menendez's co-defendants is set to return to the stand for direct examination.

Late night host Jimmy Kimmel is celebrating a successful surgery for his seven-year-old son Billy. Kimmel shared the news on social media yesterday. This is the third heart surgery Kimmel's son has had since he was born with a congenital heart disease. Also, this story. Will you pardon Julian Assange? Well, I'm going to talk about that today and we're going to give it very serious consideration.

Trump talking about Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder who is fighting extradition to the US where he faces espionage charges. Okay.

All right, let's turn back now to the big question of politics this week. What will happen after a verdict is reached in the first prosecution of a former president? Whether found guilty or not, there is little doubt about how the former president, Donald Trump, is likely to respond. The New York Times writes this, Trump's response is likely to be anger and retribution regardless of the outcome. To understand why that seems all but guaranteed, you don't have to look any farther than his own campaign pitch.

I will direct a completely overhauled DOJ to investigate every radical, out-of-control prosecutor in America for their illegal, racist, and reverse enforcement of the law. I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America. I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed...

I am your retribution.

Panel's back. David, I am your retribution. If you've watched this program for the past hour where we've all been on the set, you've seen Donald Trump turn Memorial Day into a grievance festival for himself. You just now saw a clip of Donald Trump considering pardoning Julian Assange, basically someone who fronted for the Russians and whose leaks and releases got dozens of American supporters and collaborators in Afghanistan killed. And you just saw that.

He is presenting this country with a kind of stark choice, and the trial will be a symbol of that. Most people think the courts are fair. Most people think it's wrong. If you've been convicted of a crime, that says something bad about you. Most people think that you're not a victim if you are held to account for your own actions.

But there are disgruntled people. There are people who feel that America doesn't work, who have a beef with the country, who think it's okay to betray America's allies in Afghanistan. And Donald Trump is very consciously building a coalition out of all of those people. So you have this strange thing with the leader of what should be the conservative coalition is saying, I am for

everyone who's mad at America, who feels not at home in America, who's not proud of America, who doesn't trust the courts, doesn't trust the FBI, doesn't trust our allies, doesn't trust our military. And then you have a Democratic candidate, head of the Liberal coalition, who's trying to say, I'm going to be this big, broad, baggy,

messy coalition leader, but speak for the country on a larger scale. So that's going to be after the trial. It's going to be after everything. That's what this election is going to be all about. Elliot, the specter of the use of the justice system by a reelected Donald Trump. Liz Cheney was on with my colleagues on State of the Union earlier this year. She talked a little bit about it. Watch.

When you think about Donald Trump, for example, pledging retribution, what Vladimir Putin did to Navalny is what retribution looks like in a country where the leader is not subject to the rule of law. And I think that we have to take Donald Trump very seriously. We have to take seriously the extent to which, you know, you've now got a Putin wing in the Republican Party.

And of course, Elliot, in the first Donald Trump term, in the wake of Mueller, he wanted to go farther than what the Justice Department ultimately did in terms of appointing a special prosecutor in Durham to look into that. I mean, what is the actual, what is the set of realistic possibilities? I actually think probably the most dangerous thing the former president did was fire Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General of the United States, for not carrying out what were ostensibly political wishes.

of the president. It is nothing new. I know it from my time having worked at the Justice Department. Kate probably saw it in her time in the White House, that there's always tension between the sort of pointy-headed nerdy lawyers at the Justice Department. Guilty as charged.

I left my green eye shade at home today. And sort of the more political folks at the White House. That's natural. I'm certain it happened in the Bush administration. I know it happened in the Bush administration as well. And that's okay. The president then taking an additional step of saying, I'm going to now fire the chief law enforcement officer of the country because he's not carrying out my wishes, was really...

a moment in American history. And one, we should not be surprised at all, given the former president's record of the things he's been saying on the campaign trail as well. And two, it's frightening of the kind of behavior that

Were this to be exercised in South or Central America, we would look at it and be stunned at almost a form of dictatorship that we're talking about here. And so it is frightening. And for people that respect and believe in the rule of law, as it transcends political parties, right or left, this...

will be a new chapter in American history, I think, if the foreign president is re-elected. - How do Republicans here in Washington look at this possibility, Doug? - I don't think they're really focused on it. And part of this is because Donald Trump plays the role of a matador. He waves his red cape, he says something about Julian Assange. Honestly, who cares? Not voters.

He puts out some really bad statement on Memorial Day. Who cares? Not voters. Republican members of Congress say they didn't see the tweet or the Truth Social or whatever. So I think it goes back to a lot of what James Carville said. This conversation that voters are having right now says this country is moving in the wrong direction. Everything we spend money on is more expensive than it was four years ago. We're concerned about the direction of the country. And we're either addressing that or not addressing it. And Canada can do that the best.

That's the candidate that wins. It's not focusing on all these other ancillary issues that voters are just not focused on. So I sort of agree with that. I absolutely agree that the economy is the central driver for people. It's what voters care about. It's what's impacting their lives day in and day out, no question. And I think both candidates have to kind of tackle that first and foremost. I agree with that completely.

I do think, though, that we have seen that voters do care about this argument about democracy and threats to democracy. Now, people may not be thinking about it in the way Elliott's thinking about it in terms of the degradation of the rule of law and what the firing of the attorney general means, which I agree is an incredibly significant and potentially frightening thing. Most voters aren't thinking about it in that way.

But we have seen evidence, we saw it in the 2022 midterms, that people do worry about the threat that Donald Trump poses to democracy. They do feel like there's something kind of fundamentally un-American about the idea that you lose an election and you don't peacefully hand over the transfer, you don't peacefully transfer power. I mean, I think that people, they don't think about it in constitutional terms, but they do

think about it in terms of that's actually like a pretty fundamental piece of what makes our country unique and special. And so the idea that Donald Trump is going to take that away, that does have resonance with people. And there is some fear there. I'm not saying it supersedes concerns about the economy. But I do think there's absolutely evidence that it motivates them. Those voters you describe are out there. I just argue they're already committed. And Lord knows if you're having a conversation about Julian Assange--

you have a lot of deeply held thoughts about this election you've made up your mind why certainly agree with that I certainly agree with that there's a saying or a joke back in 2016 that floated around Twitter in those as it was called in those days lol nothing matters but the truth is everything matters there's just a lot of everything and

And, yeah, there may be a very few people in the country who care about Julian Assange. But there are, whether Biden wins or not, again, will depend a lot on people who would normally vote Republican, who do care about national security, who do care about the rule of law. And by the way, for whom they look at the economy and say, yeah, prices are a little high, but the economy is roaring. The stock market is booming. Production is up. Productivity is up. America manufacturing is back. This is a strong economy.

The prices are high, but so are the wages. But there are constituencies for everything. And who is going to put Biden in the White House or not? It is going to be people who would normally vote Republican and this time won't. Yeah, really interesting. And I have so many questions about his outreach to those people, too, or lack thereof. But let's turn now to this. You have a vice presidential candidate in mind?

Well, I really haven't gotten quite there yet. I guess... Oprah. I love Oprah. Oprah would always be my first choice. Oprah. Oprah. Your competitor, right? No. Oprah's a competitor. You know what? I'll tell you. She's really a great woman, though. She is a terrific woman. She's somebody that's very special. I mean, if she'd do it, she'd be fantastic. She's popular. She's brilliant. She's a wonderful woman.

It was like 25 years ago, believe it or not. That was one of the day when a Donald Trump Oprah Winfrey ticket was not an entirely crazy idea. Had the two stayed the same political course, they may have actually found that a Trump Oprah ticket or an Oprah Trump ticket for that matter might appeal to many voters who find themselves drawn to both celebrities

And we bring this up because of our friend of the show, Republican pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson, writes this about people that she has spoken to recently. When I interviewed a dozen women who voted for Mr. Trump in 2020 and asked them who else they'd like to see run for president, the first responses from one Republican and one independent were emphatic. Oprah.

David, I mean, this is like a fundamental part of Donald Trump that, you know, we can't lose sight of. Well, you made a joke halfway through your monologue. Trump, Oprah? Really? Really?

She's more famous. She's richer. Oprah Trump. Oprah Trump. That's the ticket. That's the ticket. But it also reminds us of how Donald Trump got into this game, which is he was a generic celebrity. And he was someone with moderate views, obnoxious ways of expressing them. He turned himself into this kind of creature, partly because by the time he got into politics in 2016,

Back in 2000, he was still a medium successful business. By 2016, he's in debt up to his eyeballs. He's got a career of crime. He had to shut down the law. He had to become this assault on the legal system because you could either have Donald Trump or the rule of law, or have Trump presidency or the rule of law, but not both. But had he checked his ego at the door and said, Ms. Winfrey, I would really like to work for you, the whole course of American history might have been different.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe so. But I mean, look, Doug, I think you're kind of getting at this a little bit, too, and kind of talking about what these candidates need, the people that they need to talk to, the ways in which they need to talk to them. I mean, there are a lot of casual Trump voters, I can imagine, out there. I mean, we talk about his MAGA base on this show all the time. But for people who are not as engaged in the day-to-day of this, they know him as the guy who said your

who said you're fired and that's still true even after everything. - That still is a big part of his brand and it's what propelled him in this first case. But I remember just after election day in 2012 being in Richmond, Virginia with then majority leader Cantor and we determined that 8% of Richmond and suburban Richmond voters were Obama-Cantor voters.

I still can't figure out who those 8 percent are these are also the Oprah these are some the over Trump voters potentially well it goes to celebrity that supersedes partisanship right this year's pretty mean that's part of what would be part of Oprah's power I I will say if if Oprah decides to join the Trump ticket I I would be terrified that would be a I mean I'll be that that would be a it would but its again it's any it actually but it actually does sort of make sense when you think about the

the kinda overall fatigue that people have with politics the kind of general discuss the sort of on we that we're seeing from voters in the cycle somebody like Oprah who doesn't feel partisan one way or the other but but feels familiar and impressive and powerful I'm

It feels like that's where some of her strength would lie. I feel like more celebrities, not fewer, are probably running for office. Probably good. But I am loving the Oprah Trump idea of, you have an indictment under your seat. No, you have an indictment under your seat. Indictments for everyone with Oprah as vice president. Oh, man. All right. On that note, I'll leave you with this because I guess it's appropriate today. Animals on the loose everywhere. You can pet it.

Police in Georgia gently recapturing this alligator roaming a Chatham County neighborhood before releasing it back into the wild. This is a smaller alligator than one that we saw police confront a couple weeks ago on this show.

And then there's this, everybody say "aww." There's body camera footage of a Florida officer scooping up a kitten stranded in the middle of a busy road. Oh, look at that guy. It was later adopted by the dispatcher. That's very sweet.

And then, we're not monkeying around. A Japanese snow monkey spotted on the loose in Walterboro, South Carolina. How did it get there? Officials say Bradley escaped his habitat last week after being caught on camera several times. He was finally recaptured. So I guess that's three happy endings to kick off what is...

I don't know how we could just use some happy animal rescues this week, right? Opening arguments start today. Thank you guys very much for being with me this morning. Thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Casey Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN News Central starts right now.

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