Could Trump's Prosecutors be Prosecuted?
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Peanut butter on the light switch. Oh, spritz spritz. Yeah, spritz spritz. Clorox, man. Clean feels good. Okay, we're back. Use as directed. It's Thursday, April 17th. Here's what's happening right now on CNN This Morning. Could President Trump's prosecutors be prosecuted? There's a big escalation in the power struggle between two branches of our government over deportation flights. Plus...

If IRS looks at it, they might look at it across other universities. New threats for Harvard. With its funding already frozen, the school could now lose its tax-exempt status and its ability to host international students. Also, the Trump administration calls him a terrorist and a gang member. What does the evidence show? We're going to dig into the background of the man mistakenly deported to El Salvador. And... E.T. phone home.

Okay, I can't believe I'm saying this but could extraterrestrials be real? Scientists now say they found the strongest evidence yet of life outside our solar system.

It is 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Look at that. That is a beautiful sunrise over New York City. Good morning, everybody. I hope you're enjoying a sunrise where you are. I'm Audie Cornish, and I want to thank you for waking up with me. So we're going to begin with this kind of escalating tension or maybe standoff between President Trump and the courts.

So, U.S. District Court Judge James Boasberg ruled that probable cause exists to hold the Trump administration officials in criminal contempt for violating his order to stop using the Alien Enemies Act to deport alleged Venezuelan gang members. The president and others in the administration had already been critical of this judge.

Many people have called for his impeachment, the impeachment of this judge. He's radical left. What do you do when you have a rogue judge? He's a lunatic. I don't care what that judge thinks. We're going to continue to arrest public safety threats and national security threats. It's very, very clear that this is an activist judge. Judge Boasberg could recommend criminal prosecutions against members of the president's team.

He says the court has, quote, given the defendants ample opportunity to rectify or explain their actions, and none of their responses has been satisfactory. The Trump administration is appealing. We're going to bring in the group chat this morning to help break this down. First, Stephen Collinson, CNN politics senior reporter, Jackie Kucinich, Washington bureau chief for the Boston Globe, and Alex Thompson, national political correspondent at Axios.

So, Boasberg, you know, he had time. Like, this was a long opinion as he tried to kind of methodically lay out what he believed the administration has been doing and giving them a chance to kind of counter. So where are we in the state of things? Before we start hearing people say constitutional crisis, right, for the rest of the week.

Well, in this case, which is about the order of the judge to stop flights to El Salvador of undocumented migrants, the administration says we're gang members.

We have seen a pattern of the administration defying the judge, not providing the information he wants. You saw the public attacks. But this is not just this case. This is going on across many cases in which the administration is now embroiled. Cases about Doge, cases about Mr. Garcia Abrego, who you were talking about. Yeah, yeah.

This is going to end up going before the Supreme Court because the administration is defying judges across the board. And the question is, will the Supreme Court

stand up for the district court judges. The majority has shown that it doesn't want to be drawn into a constitutional crisis with the administration. In the Abrego-Garcia case, it talked about how the administration must facilitate his return from El Salvador. That was widely seen by a lot of experts as a way of not clashing directly with the administration. Can I underscore something you just said, that it is becoming...

defending the district court, right? It's not just skipping straight. It's like there is a conversation brewing there and the district court judges are stepping up. Alex Thompson and Jackie Kucinich. All right, help me break this down what your reporters are looking at right now. The White House messaging is pretty consistent as we heard there.

So how far do they want to go with this particular case? I mean, it seems like they're going to go the distance on this particular case because they really think they have a political winner here. They think that in terms of public opinion, in terms, I mean, look what happened yesterday in the White House briefing room. They really feel. But as Stephen said, there's so many cases they're doing this with, right? Like, I don't know if this is the priority to get to the Supreme Court, but. Well, and I think it.

it's because it goes beyond politics. It's a system of checks and balances. They're very much leaning on the checking of the checks and balances. And they're going to continue to fight. I mean, Donald Trump, even before he was president, was one of the most litigious people in the entire history of America. And he's basically acting as if he was a real estate mogul in 1980s New York, with basically pushing the courts

to their limit and he's going to do the same thing as president. - You also brought this in, Stephen, in your writing into the conversation about elite universities as well, right? That it's about pushing and pushing and pushing in his common sense revolution. Can you talk about that idea, that common sense revolution? 'Cause I'm looking at this New York Post cover and it's talking about a woman whose daughter was killed by an illegal migrant and the headline is,

whose side are you on? And I think that kind of sums up just about every one of these arguments. Are you on the side of elite universities? Are you on the sides of gang members? Are you on the side, like, and then, or trans athletes? There's a constant dividing. - Right, the administration governs by conflict, and they're setting up all of these clashes because they believe, to your point,

that they're good politically. So they're taking down what conservatives regard as a bastion of liberal power, Harvard University. The trans issue is something that played well for them in suburbs, for example, and they always talk about how they won the seven swing states. And this attack on the ability of judges to set the law, what Trump does

uh... is that he doesn't obey the law he tries to push the more as far as he can and that's why we always have the second part i'm interested in they can push but i think the other thing is positioning the american people to choose outside

and painting one side as like, you know, fundamentally not just elitist but corrupt and criminal. And is that part of the messaging, right? You're making each voter say, "Do you want to choose to be on the opposite side of this mother's tears?"

Yes, that is just pitting one side against the other, which is why they've set up these sort of archetypes. This is why, to your point, Harvard is at the center of this and they're going after every single point that they think is a weak point. Right. They're not going against Alabama. No, no, exactly. But I think other schools are keeping the closest eye. I mean, look what happened with Columbia, right? Like they were like, oh, wait, maybe we'll backtrack to.

I think other schools are really keeping an eye on this because if they can do it to Harvard, they can do it to any school across the country. - Well, it's not just Harvard. I mean, University of Michigan, the UC system. - That's what I mean. - Yeah, exactly. And also to your point, most schools do not have the resources that Harvard does to fight back. The point is not necessarily, even if Harvard wins, the point is actually as a threat to all the other universities. I'd also just say,

I can tell you from the perspective within the Trump administration is they don't see this as them firing the first shot, but rather retaliating for the last four years or in some cases like decades. And that is their perspective. They feel like the elite media and Democrats did not

cover people like that woman in the briefing yesterday. They feel like they were not tough enough on universities. So they feel that they are retaliating, not being the aggressors. Right or wrong, that is how they feel. This is good context. OK, group chat, stay with me. We've got more to talk about. We're going to get into the details of some of these cases today. Coming up on CNN this morning, first, it was funding.

Now it's about who Harvard University can enroll. So we're going to talk about this new ultimatum for the school. Plus, it wouldn't be Fyre Fest without some problems by the festival could be postponed. And she's been deemed the Trump whisperer. But can Italy's prime minister actually secure a deal for her country and Europe on tariffs?

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If you're getting ready, it's almost 15 minutes past the hour. Get going. Here's your morning roundup. Some of the stories I want you to know to get your day started. So there's some dramatic video of the fiery moments before United Airlines jet hit an animal during takeoff in Denver. You can actually see the flames coming out of the right engine. Now, pilots had been warned about rabbits on the runway. 153 passengers on the flight to Edmonton were eventually put on another plane safely.

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Coming up, a high-profile deportee, a gang member, as the Trump administration alleges, or is he just a loving husband and father? A look into the background of Kilmar Abrego-Garcia. Plus, why the administration is now taking on the state of Maine. And good morning, Kansas City. We're tracking some severe weather that is actually rolling through your state today. Parts of the Midwest and Plains could see large hail, wind, and possibly tornadoes, so please do stay safe.

So as the Trump administration doubles down on refusing to return a Maryland man who was wrongly deported, there are questions about what we know, what we don't know about his history. Is Kilmar Abrego Garcia an MS-13 gang member, as the government alleges, or a father, a loving father, as his lawyer has talked about, who has basically been sent to prison in El Salvador for more than a month without any kind of evidence or due process?

So joining me now to help answer some of the questions we have about how we got here is Roger Parloff. He's senior editor at Lawfare. Thank you so much for coming in to CNN this morning. I appreciate it. - Thank you for having me. - So the administration has released basically the documents, what they call evidence yesterday about who he is. And I just wanna play this first. It's Attorney General Pam Bondi. This is how she describes Abrego Garcia.

This illegal alien terrorist came into our country illegally in March of 2012. We know that because he admitted that when he was stopped in 2019 by the anti-gang squad. They stopped him at a Home Depot with three other members. And here's what's very important. He was wearing a sweatshirt with gang insignia on it.

- All right, so let's pick apart some of this. First, when she uses this term terrorist, we should be clear that the government has designated the gang MS-13 as a terrorist organization. So kind of throwing out that term willy-nilly. - That happened in February. - Yeah, exactly. But let's talk about the two documents, one through ICE, right, in terms of chronicling who he was, and another from this anti-gang unit, I believe, in Prince George's County. - That's right. - What did you find that

they said when they categorized him? Well, the two are a little inconsistent, but the important one is the one that was released yesterday. And what it really is is a double hearsay, as we would say. It's a detective who wasn't brought to court, never testified, saying what somebody allegedly told him. And that person is a confidential informant, and we don't know anything about him.

So it's double hearsay as to him. So a confidential informant says something to someone in this unit and then it also comes down to the hat? Yeah, so the only thing that the detective observed himself was he was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat.

and some sort of hoodie. The hoodie had some sort of insignia that one of the officers called indicative of Hispanic gang culture, not even a particular gang. And so it all came down to the detective also said he spoke to some confidential informant who had been reliable in the past, and that person identified him as a high-ranking member of

MS-13, a clique called the Westerns. - Right, which when you looked into it and the government says Westerns don't even operate really in that state. - That's right, they're in Brentwood, Long Island, and he's never lived in New York. - Okay, so we have a confidential informant, we have this officer, neither appeared in court, and I'm not saying they should, it's immigration, it's not exactly the same due process situation. However, when you tried to find this officer, or at least look into that part of it, what did you learn?

Yeah, it wasn't me. His original lawyer after this happened, who seemed to be sort of shocked at the time in 2019, tried to track down the officer and was told that he had been suspended. The lawyer tried to speak to other people in the gang unit and they refused.

JUST RECENTLY, THIS WEEK, IN FACT, A NEW REPUBLIC REPORTER, GREG SARGENT, TRACKED DOWN, FIGURED OUT WHO THE DETECTIVE WAS. HE WAS ACTUALLY NOT JUST SUSPENDED BUT INDICTED AND LATER PLED GUILTY TO A MISCONDUCT CHARGE

that was unrelated, it was leaking confidential information about an interrogation, about a police investigation to a commercial sex worker. - So in a way, like our whole portrait of him as described by the White House is in fact informed by somebody who was indicted for misconduct.

Yeah, it's a double hearsay stemming from a document written by somebody indicted for misconduct. Right. The other thing we want to talk about is the White House publicized the civil protective order that Abrego's wife actually applied for in 2021, right? People are talking about domestic violence.

Here is what she had to say in response to this release. She said, "After surviving domestic violence "in a previous relationship, I acted out of caution "after a disagreement with Kilmar "by seeking a civil protective order "in case things escalated. "Things did not escalate and I decided not to follow through "with the civil court process." Can you talk about how something like this would have weighed in if his actual immigration process had come to pass in a substantive way?

Well, it had no bearing on any of his immigration proceedings. So far as I know, it wasn't brought in at any of them. Obviously, you know, there's a lot of people in Congress that have these things like this out against them or, you know, Pete Hegseth.

Meaning specifically civil protective orders, which is not the same as being arrested and charged for domestic violence. He has no criminal record, not in this country, not in any country so far as we know. So the judge in the case says she wants to launch discovery on a quick basis.

timeline. Can you talk about what that means, what she would be looking for and kind of what where that would be heading? Yeah, she wants depositions done, we think by April 23rd. She'd like and then she's also depositions are sworn, you know, sworn testimony.

And then there's interrogatories, which is a formal question-answer, and also requests for production, which is... So it's kind of an investigation. Yes, but she wants it very, very quick, two weeks. She wants it all completed by April 28th. She wants...

the plaintiffs to then ask for something which would probably be some sort of motion for to initiate contempt proceedings and the defendant would respond two days and in this kind of scenario the ideas by the end of it the government would have somehow outlined who made what decisions that put

uh... tomorrow on this plane or uh... she is trying to develop a factual record uh... i mean uh... uh... uh... she and she actually is more interested in in what they've done to bring him back right now i mean the supreme court said you need to facilitate uh... his in in essence his return and uh...

And the court said that they should provide information about what steps they've taken to the extent possible. So she wants them to provide steps. So proof to show if they did anything at all. That's right.

All right. Roger Parler of Lawfare, thank you so much for your time. Still to come on CNN this morning, more threats for one of the nation's oldest universities. Both Homeland Security and the IRS are now going after Harvard. How is this going to work? Plus, why a major hearing for the Menendez brothers could now be delayed.

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Look, I love Italy and Italy is a very important nation. We have a wonderful woman as your leader. She's been called the Trump whisperer, but will Italy's prime minister be able to cut a deal for all of Europe? Good morning, everybody. I'm Adi Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me here on CNN this morning. If you're getting ready, it is half past the hour here on the East Coast. And here's what's happening right now.

Italy's Prime Minister, Giorgia Maloney, heading to the White House today. She's the first European leader to sit down with President Trump since he announced a 20% tariff on the EU that's since been dropped down to 10%, at least for the next 90 days. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in Paris this morning where he and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff will meet with European counterpoints

counterparts about Russia's war on Ukraine. The meeting comes just days after Witkow met with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss a possible ceasefire. And the Justice Department is appealing a judge's finding that probable cause exists to hold the Trump administration officials in contempt. The judge says they violated his orders to stop using the Alien Enemies Act to deport alleged Venezuelan gang members.

OK, we're also going to talk about the administration stepping up threats against Harvard University. Homeland Security is now getting in on it, threatening to revoke Harvard's ability to enroll international students if it doesn't share its disciplinary records with the department. And sources tell CNN that the IRS is making plans to revoke the university's tax-exempt status. Both of these moves coming after Harvard rejected a long list of demands from the White House.

We'll see what IRS comes back with relative to Harvard. I certainly think, you know, in elitist schools especially that have these incredibly large endowments, you know, we should probably have a look into that.

Group chat is back. Stephen, you were writing about this in your latest piece that the administration seemed to delight in this. As she said, elitist schools. Does anyone think it'll stop at elitist schools once you've set the precedent that you can get disciplinary records, meddle in someone's curriculum, make these particular demands? STEPHEN BREYER: No. And as Alex was saying, some other schools have less of an ability than Harvard to fight back. I think it's important--

as we think about where this story is going is that Harvard made a stand but

Here's, this is not just the Trump administration lashing out against a liberal school. That it is, and it's good politics, but this is a culmination of decades of conservative frustration with a lot of these schools. Their policies on civil rights, for example, the belief that they're a bastion of liberal power, that the faculty... Yeah, not ideology, power. I think that's an interesting word that you use there. But the faculty doesn't...

or doesn't allow conservatives, the student body is very left wing. So this is a political and cultural issue. It's not just about the short term politics. Okay. Can I add one thing though? Because four faculty senate bodies at schools at Rutgers, University of Nebraska at Lincoln, Indiana University, Bloomington, and my alma mater, UMass Amherst, were voting to say there should be a mutual defense pact.

that these universities should come together and prepare to defend themselves against the administration. And I think it's just interesting it's coming from faculty, right?

Right. Not the schools themselves. Well, right. Because the schools themselves don't want to want to probably stay very quiet and hope this passes. But I really want to you talked about where we're going. I want to talk about where we've been and just how it is precedented. But there is one precedent that was brought up to us through this reporting, and that's Bob Jones University.

the late 70s early 80s they lost their tax-exempt status because they banned interracial marriage on their campus so and it was a you know they put it in writing and when and they lost their time the IRS took away their tax-exempt status that's the last time this happened and that's what had to happen in order for them to lose that status they eventually got it back many many many years later but just

And that is what they're going to try to use against Harvard because they're saying that students were discriminated against because of some of these... Because of anti-Semitism. Because of anti-Semitism, yes. I mean, Trump basically views any entity in the entire United States or the world that gets money from the U.S. government, he now has leverage over. That is how he is viewing every single thing. Leverage or control. Which does it feel like?

Well, I mean, it is like he's threatening each one. I don't necessarily think he wants to control Harvard, but I think he is like shaking down Harvard in his way. It's like, oh, that's a really nice federal grant you have for cancer research. Let's pull this back. I'd also say, to Stephen's point, this has been the targeting of these sort of elite, and what they view like elite liberal institutions, has been a long time coming. J.D. Vance, even well before this, thought that

a lot of these university endowments should be taxed as if they were a hedge fund. But they didn't go that route, and I think that's what's been interesting about all of this. Well, it's going to be interesting, though. The tax bill is still coming up, and this could actually be an issue that you see in the coming months. Yeah. Oh, good. Okay. Group chat, stay with me. We're going to talk more about the legal issues around that mistakenly deported Maryland man, Kilmar Abrego-Garcia, currently, of course, being held at a mega prison in El Salvador. The fight to get him released is pitting the court system against the White House.

Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen flew to El Salvador yesterday attempting to see Abrego Garcia. He was denied access. I'm asking President Bukele under his authority as president of El Salvador to do the right thing and allow Mr. Abrego Garcia to walk out of a prison, a man who's charged with no crime, convicted of no crime, and who was illegally abducted from the United States.

Although President Trump campaigned on hardline immigration tactics, his administration's intense crackdown has actually come to a shock to some who took him at his word that he would focus on deporting violent criminals. My next guest talks about this in a piece for The Atlantic titled They Never Thought Trump Would Have Them Deported. Joining me now is The Atlantic's Caitlin Dickerson. Hey there, Caitlin. Welcome to CNN This Morning. Hey, Adi.

So you've kind of written the one story I've wanted to read in the last couple of months, which is there were a good number of people who voted for Donald Trump specifically because of his immigration policies. And Democrats in a way misread the room, thinking especially in Latino communities that that support wouldn't be there. So tell me about one of the people that you met who was an immigration attorney in this position.

Oh, so I write about Israel Rose. He's an immigration lawyer based in New York, and he specializes in representing people from former Soviet bloc countries. And he's a Republican. He voted for Trump. You know, we talked about how it's a rarer position for immigration lawyers, but of course they do exist. And he really believes in the rule of law. He believes in

consequences and voted for President Trump primarily for different reasons, but believed generally in this very clear message that Donald Trump gave throughout his campaign and even today saying that this mass deportation effort was going to focus on people who clearly represented a threat to American public safety. We've heard the president talk so much about

people with a history of sexual violence people who are drug traffickers human traffickers and that's who rose believe the president would go after instead he's now representing clients he's involved with cases up to different fathers both have been in the united states i believe more than twenty years they have american-born children the eldest i believe is sixteen the youngest two years old and these men are business owners they have a history of paying taxes

One of them was actually picked up by ICE. So to cut to the end, both have been arrested. They're in deportation proceedings now and may be removed, both to Moldova. And I wanted to talk about the tactic ICE used to arrest one of them because it speaks to how much pressure they're under now to make these arrests so

One of these men was participating in annual appointments with ICE where you check in and show them, "I'm still in the United States. I haven't gone missing. I'm still paying my taxes. I'm still following the rules. I haven't gotten into any trouble." These are programs that prior administrations used to really leave undocumented immigrants who had no criminal record alone. So one of these men showed up to his ICE check-in and instead he was taken into custody.

Rose, his immigration lawyer, told me he's really shocked and troubled and frankly feels the president is going too far. Kaitlin, you're known for your national reporting on ICE and on that child separation policy. Do you get the sense that this is also having this current policy, its intended effect of deterrence, right, and of having driving people away and out of the immigration system?

There's no question that what ICE is doing now on the ground has sent a chilling effect across immigrant communities in the United States. And, you know, when I covered family separations at the United States border, we talked about people, these are people who are entering the United States for the very first time. Now we're talking about families being separated who've

been in the United States for 20, 30, 40 years. There's a woman in my story you referred to earlier who's been in the United States for more than 50 years. Those are the families that we're talking about being separated now. And it has people very scared. And, you know, the administration has been upfront about the fact that they want this campaign that's underway to scare people into leaving on their own, if possible, into, you know, so-called self-deporting.

So I think there's no question that this more indiscriminate approach that ICE is taking to arrest that includes people who've never gotten into any trouble in the United States aside from being here without authorization, it's very different from what the president promised and is having a major impact across the country on immigrant communities and among Americans who are surprised to see their friends and neighbors being arrested, people they didn't expect to end up in ICE custody.

Thank you, Caitlin. And you can read Caitlin's reporting in The Atlantic. Now, I want to talk about what's coming up next. George Clooney, one of the high profile voices who called for Joe Biden to leave the 2024 race. He's weighing in on who he thinks should be the next presidential contender for Democrats. Plus, Fyre Fest 2.0 does not seem to be going as planned. More from the group chat after this.

The Trump administration quickly filing an appeal of the judge's ruling that probable cause exists to hold White House officials in criminal contempt. So Judge James Boasberg say that they violated his order to halt the deportation of alleged Venezuelan gang members. This is just the latest back and forth between the judiciary and the White House.

These liberal district judges thought that they could control our entire country's policy, Donald Trump's policy, on keeping America safe. They cannot do it.

So I want to bring in Shan Wu for a legal perspective. He's a criminal defense lawyer and a former federal prosecutor. Good morning, Shan. I want to start with what we just heard from the Attorney General there because we have frequently heard the administration spin these legal rulings as outright victories or flat victories or kind of attack the judges specifically.

about them trying to exert some sort of control. What could they do in this situation, in reality? - It's a little bit of a uphill battle for them here 'cause normally this kind of a order or ruling by the judge to begin the trial

contempt proceedings is not really appealable. It's not a final decision in the case. It's not a decision on the merits, not a final order. To me, it's a little bit analogous to trying to appeal the setting of a trial date. They may want to spin it as they're trying to get to the substance of the probable cause.

But I think they would run into a little problem there. I mean, we'll see what the court of appeals says. And of course, what they're really aiming for is to try to get to Supreme Court. - Well, the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because we hear contempt of court, we're like, is someone gonna be thrown in jail? But what's interesting about the way the court is actually handling this?

It really strikes me how methodical and careful Judge Boasberg is in building the record. He's already been pretty meticulous about it. But by giving these two weeks of discovery period, he really ensures that the factual record is going to be very carefully built up.

He has the plaintiff personally saying they can give sworn declarations. Then there can be depositions. The plaintiff's lawyers will be doing that. And they're obviously very motivated to build a strong record. And the factual record is really critical because while the legal issues, there can be disagreement at the Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court. That's what those courts have to look at is the legal issues. Factual findings, very difficult to overturn.

And so we're building a record here. It's going to be interesting how this plays out. Shanmu, thank you so much for your time. Sure thing. Good to see you.

Alright, it's 10 minutes to the hour. I want to give you a few more headlines in the morning roundup. The LA County DA's office wants to delay an important hearing today for the Menendez brothers. It says the court needs time to review the assessment that the parole board did. Lyle and Eric Menendez, who got life in prison for the killing of their parents back in 1989, they have been pushing to be resentenced.

And more problems for Fyre Fest round two. Organizers now say the festival will not be held in Playa del Carmen in Mexico. It was scheduled for next month, but now it's not clear whether that will happen. Remember, people who went to the original Fyre Fest said they spent thousands and ended up in half-built tents and eating cheese sandwiches. The Justice Department is suing the state of Maine over its refusal to comply with the president's ban on transgender athletes in high school sports.

And first of all, these are boys in a girl's locker room. One is too many. And it's not doesn't just affect one young woman. It affects the entire team, the entire sport within that school. These young women are not being able to compete because of a boy. Maine's Governor Janet Mills, who earlier told President Trump's see you in court, says her administration will vigorously defend the state.

So the group chat is back because I want to talk about something that I think, Alex, you'll know about this conversation around George Clooney, the return of Joe Biden this week, having his sort of first public speech since the election. I want to play a clip about he was Clooney was actually asked about the decision to drop out of the race. And here's what he said.

It was a civic duty because I found that people on my side of the street, you know, I'm a Democrat. I was a Democrat in Kentucky, so I get it. When I saw people on my side of the street not telling the truth, I thought that was time to... Are people still mad at you for that? Some people, sure. It's okay.

So Jake sat down with him because he's in a Broadway play right now bringing his "Good Night and Good Luck" there. And that op-ed from July was like, you know, the op-ed heard around the world.

So what do you make of kind of the conversation about this sort of him saying like look I took a lot of heat for doing this But I felt I had to yeah, and the buying people have tried to dismiss this as well It's just one celebrities opinion the reason why that op-ed Resonated is because in that op-ed he said the debate was not an anomaly Joe Biden's performance of the debate was not just a cold

was not just him being a little bit like having a bad night, that George Clooney had seen that same sort of debate Biden himself up close. And yeah, I mean, like the Biden people are still upset about it. They're still sore about it. Yeah. And but but thing is that he has said that I was just being honest and

and was saying what a lot of other Democrats, I can tell you, privately had seen and said behind the scenes for many, many, many months, which is this guy is not up to four more years, let alone maybe even trying to beat Donald Trump. He also was asked about what he thought should have happened.

What happened in the end was Kamala Harris was able to sew up support by honestly hitting the phones and asking, right? Other people could have done that too. But Clooney is among those who sort of wanted a primary. And even now, even though he's just a celebrity, he has been talking about who he sees as a potential next generation. And one of the people he mentioned was Governor Wes Moore. These are people who our country is incomplete without their service.

And they deserve the utmost respect. But instead, they have been villainized, they have been attacked, and this is not patriotism, this is cruelty. Cruelty. Your service matters, no matter what you're being told right now, particularly by people who have not sacrificed anything for this country.

So Clooney then went on to honestly really polish up the resume talking about Moore's duties in Afghanistan, the fact that he ran a hedge fund, running Robin and Kiske, called him a proper leader. This is an interesting moment for someone like this to come out and start naming names because we've been talking for days about like, who's next? AOC, Bernie, the tour, like who should speak up? I mean...

But I don't think he's alone in looking at governors, Democratic governors. And I think this could be a really interesting cycle because it is so, well, it's 2020, it's still a couple years away, but it is such a wide open field. But I think, you know, Gretchen Whitmer is in that conversation. Steve Beshear is in that conversation. Wes Moore is in that conversation. And it really is. And he, of course, mentioned Beshear because Clooney is famously from Kentucky. Exactly. Exactly.

You know, the silence is kind of deafening in terms of figuring out who should be in the leadership position. And is that because the Democratic Party or, let me take this back, parties are weaker. The concept of a political party, it's a much weaker institution in an era of super PACs, big monies, mass media. We don't need them the same way. That's true, although

I think it's pretty early. I think... You can argue with me. I mean, like, honestly... Well, no, because you look at the way Trump captured the party. It's like he didn't need the party. It is true, but I think...

What's driving this more is the fact that if you're a governor, you don't necessarily, and you're thinking about running for president, you don't necessarily want to be out there in public every single day. It's been very interesting the last few weeks. We've seen people like Moore, Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer with that Michigan issue in the Oval Office. They've been forced out a little bit. The problem is not only do they not want to be out there in the Democratic politics,

environment, they're facing a president who has shown he'll use executive power to punish them and punish their states if he believes there's a political advantage or he can hurt them politically. So it's always exceedingly treacherous if you're a governor planning to run for office, getting that balance right. At this point, you do things more quietly than not.

In this political atmosphere, it's even more difficult and sensitive. Yeah, and if you don't get it right, here's the kind of review you might get. Clooney was asked about how the party needs to find a new leader soon. He was also referring in the context of town halls, speakers getting up and saying, Democrats, you need to do something. And here's how he hears the state of play.

He's two tours of duty in Afghanistan, active duty. He speaks sort of beautifully. He's smart. He ran a hedge fund. He ran the Robin Hood Foundation. He's a proper leader. And Democrats, you know, the thing is, we say Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. Although I think Republicans have fallen in love a little bit.

I like him a lot. I think he could be someone we could all join in behind. We have to find somebody rather soon. He went on to say, every time Chuck Schumer approaches the microphone, my heart sinks. Chuck Schumer destroys all hope I have. I mean, that's really subtle.

Well, I think it also speaks to another issue of the age thing. I mean, Chuck Schumer... But it's not an age thing. He's kind of like, we need to look beyond elected officials. They're not doing the job. And you're hearing that from Democrats across the spectrum. That exact... Those exact... Almost those exact words that they need something different. They're looking at...

because they don't feel like there's fight in the party. - Let me clarify that that comment about Chuck Schumer approaching the microphone actually came from a town hall attendee. That was me making a serious error. Apologies to George Clooney. I wanna move on from this because I know that we're keeping an eye on things in the next couple of days, things that we're going to be watching for, whether it be tariffs, whether it be this issue about leadership in the party. Stephen, you start.

A lot of CEOs are having their quarterly earnings calls. It's really interesting to watch them as they talk about the impact of tariffs, how they're having a little bit of trouble planning for what's ahead. So while tariffs haven't had a big impact so far, the prospect of tariffs is really hanging over the business environment.

Okay, Jackie Kucinich. Under the backdrop of Democrats being dissatisfied with current leadership and current members of Congress, April 15th, a bunch of financial reports came out, and I'm bookmarking some of the longtime incumbents that might be getting a challenge. And see if you're actually bringing in the money. And seeing next quarter if that changes. Alex, last word to you. I'm going to choose the fun topic, which is the NBA playoffs, baby. Yes, thank you. And a fourth-generation Lakers fan.

I'm very excited. Luka Doncic, LeBron James, that's what I'm going to pay attention to. I've got to say go Celtics. Oh boy, yeah. The group chat's about to take off. Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Adi Cornish and CNN News Central starts right now.