Democrat Insider: 'We Are F'd'
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Voters 50 and over have the power to decide elections. So candidates who want to win need to talk about the issues they care about. Learn more from our latest polling in Pennsylvania at aarp.org slash PA polling. It's the morning after CNN's historic presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And last night, one candidate's performance sent his party scrambling.

Good morning, everyone. CNN This Morning is live here in Atlanta, where it is 6 a.m. I'm Casey Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us this morning. We are effed that reaction from a Democratic source after watching President Biden's performance in last night's CNN debate. Other Democratic insiders telling me Biden looks and sounds terrible, that he was simply, quote, horrific.

All those comments coming from party operatives who found moments like this incredibly difficult to watch. Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the COVID, excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with. Look, if we finally beat Medicare.

With so much on the line last night, the president's performance was alarming to many who support him. His cadence was halting, his voice nearly inaudible at times as he struggled to finish some of his thoughts. I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we're going to do with more border patrol and more asylum officers.

President Trump? I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either. The debate went so poorly for the president. There are already breathless, though, still mostly private conversations among insiders about whether he should step down as the party's presumptive nominee, a notion that we just weren't talking about 24 hours ago. There's a lot of people who are going to want to see him consider taking a different course now.

We're still far from our convention, and there is time for this party to figure out a different way forward if he will allow us to do that. But that was not what we needed from Joe Biden, and it's personally painful for a lot of people. It's not just panic, it's pain. It's something that a lot of my Democratic sources are echoing over the course of the last 12 hours. The president himself, he stopped at a Waffle House after the debate. Here's how he graded his own performance.

How did you perform tonight? I think we did well. Do you have any concerns about your performance? No, it's hard to debate a liar. One Democratic source emailed me last night, quote, it's hard to argue that Biden should be our nominee. And this was longtime Democratic strategist David Axelrod on this network last night.

There was a sense of shock, actually, how he came out at the beginning of this debate, how his voice sounded. He seemed a little disoriented. He did get stronger as the debate went on, but by that time, I think the panic had set in. And I think you're going to hear discussions that I don't know will lead to anything, but there are going to be discussions about whether he should continue.

Our panel is here as we wake up to a new reality in this presidential race. Let's bring in CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. Jamal Simmons is former Communications Director for Vice President Harris. Republican strategist and pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson is here. We are also joined...

by Axios reporter Alex Thompson and the Lieutenant Governor, former Lieutenant Governor of Georgia, Jeff Duncan. Good morning to all of you. Good morning. Jeff Zeleny, I just... Is it a good morning? Is it? You tell me. Well, a lot of people on your side of the aisle, I can't...

Listen, I think the president obviously had a rough night last night. The debate was not one that any of us were expecting to see him do. But it's still clear the choice between the president and the former president is still very clear. We have one person on the stage who wants...

Joe Biden, who wants to maintain people's freedoms, who wants to make sure that they still have choices to make in their own lives. And we have Donald Trump, who wants to take those choices away like most MAGA Republicans. I think when people pay attention to the choice on the ballot, I think they'll still find that Joe Biden is the one that they want. Are you confident the ballot is going to look like we expect it to look like in November? As far as I know, the ballot's going to be, the only person who's going to make that choice is going to be Joe Biden. I think

Here's the question that we all are going to have to figure out. Was last night a bad night or is the president in a bad way?

And I think that's one of the things that they're going to have to convey. If I were them, perhaps this is time for Joe Biden to go out there and give his version of Barack Obama's race speech, right? And talk about his age and talk about the fact that he's got arthritis in his legs and talk about the fact that maybe he's moving a little slowly, but he's got to own it in a way that will give people confidence that he understands what's going on, let them in on it with him. And then he can start to change the narrative to talk more about the other things that it is he wants. The problem is not that Americans think his legs are moving slowly. The

problem is that they've looked at last night and they think his mind is moving slowly and it's too slow to be the president of the United States. This is an election where I agree with you. The choice is clear. The contrast is very clear. And this was an election where voters are looking for someone to give them stability. Donald Trump has always been Mr. Chaos. So this should have been a layup for Joe Biden. But he sent the message last night that the control room is

empty. If you want stability, Joe Biden did not convey anything along those lines last night. Which is why it is going to be up to the president and the president's team to convey that in a way that gives everybody more confidence that there is somebody at home. Listen, I was in the White House for a year. It's been a couple of years now.

But I was I was there for a year. That was not the president that I saw working in the White House every day. But that was the end of 2022. He's going to have to convey that more going into the rest of 2024. Well, and that's the problem, right, is that they have been out there, people in the White House saying that he's still that that same guy that you saw in 2022. Jeff Zeleny, I want to kind of look big picture here. Get your latest reporting as we wake up this morning, because I

I mean, I was talking to dozens of people last night and the panic was at an all-time high. I woke up this morning to a couple notes about groups of Democratic members of Congress unlikely to come out and say anything publicly at this point, but wondering who else can they put at the top of the ticket? These are some of the quotes from people that I collected last night as this debate that I'd be taking calls tonight. That's about Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom. Now, Newsom, of course, came out and was staunchly behind the president. But what are you hearing at this hour about what's next?

Look, I didn't save my text messages, but they're similar to yours. And some of them can't be printed. This goes beyond democratic. Well, we started with one that couldn't be printed. This goes beyond democratic bedwetting. This is a very different thing. And it was more a sense of concern, alarm, pain. I was in the spin room last night after the debate, sort of looking around. And boy, talk about not a single Biden person could be found for quite a while. Finally, Governor Gavin Newsom came in,

Senator Raphael Warnock came in and yes, they did talk about the policy, but very little talk about the performance. So look, today's a new day. The president has to address this when he speaks in North Carolina today. It would be unthinkable for him not to. But going forward from that, I think we need a few days to settle into what is he personally, what is his family personally thinking about this? To me, he looked overprepared.

completely tired. And he may have had a cold. That's probably the most charitable thing. But Biden advisors know how to reach everyone. Why didn't they alert people to his cold at, say, 5 o'clock, as opposed to 9.45 during the debate? I got a text from someone who said they should have lied and said he had COVID.

if they knew that this was the guy that was going to show up? I mean, perhaps he does. Who knows? But I think I was struck by also we've talked all week here in Atlanta about the curse of the first term president at the debate. It wouldn't happen to Joe Biden because he has, you know, so practiced and whatever. It was more than that.

as well. So not having his note cards, not having advisors, I think was clear. He had a bad night. Is it more than that? He'll have to answer that question. I, too, had a few text messages as being one of the only Republicans that has endorsed Joe Biden. I won't read mine on air either. I'm sure your Republican friends were very generous. They

They were not. They were generous with their words. But I think it's interesting, right? Both of these guys were sitting at the edge of the cliff, right, with their parties. If Donald Trump would have had a horrible night last night, there would have been some wrangling here with Republicans talking about what maybe it would look like to have somebody else be the nominee. But he didn't. He had a great night as far as delivery. Now, the content was full of lies and riddles and innuendos. But I think the interesting part to this is all good analogies are baseball analogies.

Right? So this is like your starting pitcher just went out and gave up five runs in the first inning before he got an out. And the question is, do you pull him or do you just think he had a bad inning? Jamal, to your point, is it a bad, is it a...

system, you know, is it a systemic problem or is it just one episode? I think America's got to figure that out. There is one good piece for Democrats is that there are still tens of millions of people in this country that would take Joe Biden at 110 years old, then vote for Donald Trump. The problem is there's probably not enough of those millions of people. And part of the problem is someone that's covered Joe Biden's age for the last three and a half years is

is they deflect, they gaslight. At times they have not told the truth about the limitations of his age, that he gets up late in the morning, that he does not appear on camera usually late at night, that he does not do interviews more than, he's done less interviews than any president in decades. There are limitations on this president because he is old and he is not

been forthright in addressing those in the way that Jamal was saying. And so that's why you have this collective freakout, because now it's four months to Election Day, and you realize that maybe he does have some bad moments. Well, look, it raises the question, why did he go to Europe twice?

It seems like they're sort of overworking him to show this movement, what you're talking about, that somebody's at home and it's working. But he is 81 years old. Let the man stay home on one of those trips. Let the vice president go to one of those trips so that he can be focused on his job. And it does raise questions about staffing.

If he had a cold, I would have liked to have known that as somebody who's been out talking on behalf of Democrats, because at least that way, when we heard the raspy voice in the beginning of the in the beginning of the debate, we would have had a moment to say, oh, he's got a cold. Like, let's give him a chance to gain his footing. But that's not what happened. What about the stare? It wasn't just the cold, though. Let's be honest. If you watch the debate, it was more than just his voice. It was how he carried himself. And it was almost like he wasn't sure which camera to look through. But again, he was so calm.

uh prepared was he over prepared uh just look at that uh and you know this is not the first time this has happened necessarily we have covered many events with him um you know this is actually the joe biden we see on most days the state of the union address was the outlier here at least according to last night well and of course uh the reason that

Biden has said that he ran for re-election in the first place is because Donald Trump was

was running for president again and that he had no option. And the reason why Democrats are so upset and concerned this morning is because they view beating Donald Trump as much more than just another political contest, but rather an existential one that really will determine the future of our democracy. That's the reality that we face this morning. Up next here, more on the morning after President Biden waking up in North Carolina for a campaign rally

Will he address his debate performance? Plus, Biden campaign co-chair Mitch Landrieu joins us live to discuss the president's next steps. We brought it back to the states and the country is now coming together on this issue. It's been a great thing. It's been a terrible thing, what you did.

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. What are some of the social service agencies that have supported you and your family growing up? That's Dr. Robert Waldinger. He's a psychiatrist, a professor, and a Zen master. What kind of relationships actually help us maintain happiness? And what should we do in those moments where we have setbacks and things that don't work out? Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts.

I will never turn my back on President Biden. Never turn my back on President Biden. I don't know a Democrat in my party that would do so, especially after tonight. We have his back. We run not the 90-yard dash. We are all in. We're going to double down in the next few months. We're going to win this election. I will never turn my back on President Biden. Are you ready to take on...

California Governor Gavin Newsom there defending President Biden after his lackluster debate performance. Why does that matter? Newsom, one of the names that's on Democratic, all throughout private Democratic conversations this morning about the top of their ticket. Now, Biden today is returning to the campaign trail. In just a few hours, he's set to participate in a campaign event in North Carolina. He was greeted by supporters at the airport when he arrived following last night's high-stakes election.

debate. Joining me now, CNN senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche. She is live from Raleigh, North Carolina, with the president. Kayla, what is your latest reporting from inside the Biden campaign after last night?

Well, Casey, it's clear that there are many frustrations, but President Biden himself attempting to defy some of that criticism and course correct late last night into the evening, visiting a Waffle House in Atlanta, talking with patrons and saying that he thought he did well and defending himself and saying that it's hard to debate someone like Donald Trump who lies so much. And then when he arrived on the tarmac,

Close to 2 a.m. here in Raleigh, he was greeted by hundreds of supporters, spent more than 30 minutes shaking hands and flashing thumbs up from the beast, which is, of course, the car that he rides in in his motorcade, before delivering that speech that he will give in North Carolina today. That, of course, on the back of a forceful defense from Vice President Kamala Harris last night, who, in what appeared to be some coordinating messaging, she, too,

defended Biden and what she described as a slow start to the debate. But then she said voters are ultimately going to have to make a decision based on the past three and a half years, not based on an hour and a half. Here's what she said. Yes, there was a slow start, but it was a strong finish. People can debate on style points, but ultimately this election and who is the president of the United States has to be about substance. And the contrast is clear.

Despite the performance of the president, which was at times meandering and he appeared confused on stage, the Biden camp did feel that on substance there were some moments that stood out to voters, namely the president's response on January 6th, his speech.

going on the attack about Trump's myriad legal issues and then some exchanges on climate change as well. But they are frustrated on a few points. One, they're frustrated that Biden, in their view, had to spend a lot of time fact checking and also that he spent the majority of the time on stage on the defensive, not using the attack messaging that they had developed so carefully over the last few days. When I talk to other Democrats, Casey, I mean, the reactions are wide ranging, as you guys have been discussing for the last 12 hours. Some are saying that

the president and the first lady need to stop denying what's been true for the last several years and step aside. But another that I spoke with said, that's why you do these things in June, because there's going to be a thousand more news cycles before November, Casey. And there is also, I don't think it's lost anyone time to replace someone at the top of the ticket before the convention, which is an unusual reality, of course. Kayla Tausche for us this morning. Kayla, thank you very much. All right, coming up next here.

More of the highs and lows from last night's presidential debate. Plus, Senator Marco Rubio joins us live to talk about Trump's performance last night and being in the running to be Trump's vice president.

All right. In one of the more eyebrow-raising moments of the debate, Donald Trump and Joe Biden went off-topic for some trash-talking about, of all things— I mean, this is honestly the bro-iest thing ever. They're golf handicaps. Watch.

I just won two club championships, not even senior, two regular club championships. To do that, you have to be quite smart and you have to be able to hit the ball a long way. And I do it. He doesn't do it. He can't hit a ball 50 yards. Look, I'd be happy to have a driving contest with him. The reason I got my handicap, which when I was vice president, down to a six. And by the way, I told you before, I'm happy to play golf if you carry your own bag. Think you can do it?

That's the biggest lie that he's a six handicap of all. I was an eight handicap. Yeah. Eight. But I have, you know how many... I've seen you swing. I know you swing.

Okay, boys. I felt like I was watching a clip of Caddyshack or something. And apparently these guys don't count all their shots because neither one of those guys are those handicaps. I've got a son who's a scratch golfer. And anyways, yeah, that was a tough moment. Yeah, I just thought, make it stop. I can't get out of this cul-de-sac of golf. What are we doing here? In terms of the subject of that, like that was on age. I was stunned that President Biden did not come to this debate with a...

a one-liner or something about age. I mean, he's been much... He's used it. He's been humorous about it, like at the White House Correspondents Dinner, at the Gridiron Dinner. He's sort of talked about it. It's almost like he didn't want to address it, as you've been talking about it. It's one of sort of like the third rails for him. But I was surprised he didn't come...

With a ready response. Whatever the modern day Reagan response to age would be. He doesn't want to joke about it, though. The thing is, whenever he's joked about his age, he has done so unwillingly. He does not like to make fun of it. Like his campaign is making him do it?

I mean, they're telling him he should and he's finally agreed. But he only did that one ad, remember, in that grandpa sweater. And he's like, I'm an old guy. I know it. But then, like, we really haven't seen that since. He does not want to address the address. He has been unwilling to go and address it, which is why Jamal earlier was saying maybe you need some sort of speech. One last thing about the golfing. There's extensive reporting on both these guys. They are both classic cheats at golf. Like there has been there. I think all presidents are cheating at golf.

Yes, exactly. John Boehner golfed with Joe Biden and was dubious about his handicap. So I'm just saying that that was the only two people in America, the only two voters in America that care about their golf game were two. And they were both on that stage last night. I have a sister with a handicap lower than both of what those men claimed on stage. And the number of times that men cannot handle whenever it is she beats him at golf is where my kind of take on this is coming from. Kristen, let me get your take. Yeah. So when I

thinking about, you know, should Biden have come with a line that addresses this? I think no, I don't think there would have been any benefit to him trying to lean into this. He just needed to seem vigorous and he didn't. What fascinated me was there is a chance because Donald Trump loves to stick the knife in that he was going to kind of try to beat Joe Biden up on this. And he really didn't. He, for the most part, let Biden's performance speak for itself. There was that one moment where he said, you know, I don't understand. I don't understand what he just said. And I don't think he does either. But then he kind of let it go. And it just

That was a moment where Trump could have rather been too much of a bully, could have probably squandered what I think was a pretty decisive debate win for him last night if he'd gone too far. He was far more gentle than the commercials that his campaign was airing. His campaign yesterday was airing commercials of him tripping up the stairs. President Trump didn't go there, which was really interesting. I propose a pay-per-view 18-hole match between the two of them. I guarantee you we'll at least watch the first three holes.

Well, the one thing I'll say about Donald Trump's performance, we've been on Joe Biden a lot this hour. Donald Trump did not have a great debate performance. If Joe Biden has shown up and been the Joe Biden that we saw at the State of the Union, I think we'd all be talking about the fact that he was a January 6th denier and he's still claiming fraud in the 2020 election. And he said he didn't have sex with a porn star when everybody...

had a long time conversation about that in court. You know, there are all these things that he went after. He said that Joe Biden was the person you call super predator. And we know that was Hillary Clinton. That was the tackling Hillary Clinton from a long time ago. So he didn't have a great debate performance. It's just that he's being overshadowed by the president. What are you going to do? Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much for being on. I know you were up really late last night, so I really appreciate you being here this morning. All right, coming up next here.

Joe, our country is being destroyed as you and I sit up here and waste a lot of time on this debate. More of the good, the bad and the ugly from last night's CNN presidential debate. Plus, we'll be joined by the co-chair of the Biden campaign and a front runner to be Trump's vice presidential pick ahead. Two thirds of Americans in exit polls say that they don't think you should run for reelection. What is your message to them? And how does that factor into your final decision about whether or not to run for reelection? It doesn't.

What's your message to them? Watch me.

Watch, we did, along with the millions of Americans who tuned into CNN last night for the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. The reaction was swift and it was clear. Biden's shaky debate performance was incredibly concerning for people who would like to see him get reelected. A CNN instant poll found that 57% of debate viewers said that they had no confidence in Biden's ability to lead the country. Members of a voter focus group telling CNN this.

I think that his mental acuity is a lot better than Biden's. Biden seems to be very tired. I'm concerned he was hesitant, very not cognitive. Seemed like his data, he was missing his numbers. So very concerning. That's somebody I don't think that needs to lead our country. All right, joining me now to discuss is Mitch Landrieu. He is the national Biden campaign co-chair and of course the former mayor of New Orleans. Mr. Mayor, good morning to you. Hey, how are you? Nice to see you too.

I want to start with what those voters had to say. What do you say to them this morning? Well, first of all, the president started off slow last night. There's no question about that. And with the two clips that you showed taken out of context, when Joe Biden said, watch me, he said, watch my performance. And nothing that happened last night has changed the fact that Joe Biden passed for the biggest pieces of legislation that was seen that created violence.

15 million jobs, the lowest unemployment rate, high wages, and an economy that's off the charts, and the way that he's gonna attack bringing costs down. You will spend the whole day with all of your colleagues talking about the style of the debate last night. But one of the things that is really clear is that last night when Donald Trump was talking, basically everything that he said was a lie, and they were malevolent lies.

And I think there were two people on that stage last night. My best bet is in a couple of days, we're going to find out that when the public watches that debate and the media fact checks what Donald Trump said, if he wasn't lying, he was doubling down on the most incredible policies that he has. Like, for example, he doubled down on election denial. He doubled down on how happy he was to reverse Roe versus Wade. With all due respect, why didn't President Biden say these things on stage last night? That's my question.

Well, I think he tried to do that. But again, as we sit here and talk about the dog race, about who won the debate or who didn't, the president might have lost the debate on style, but he won it on facts. He won it on decency. And he won it on the ideas that people think are important in the country. I don't think that you can color the debate as a great argument.

a time for President Biden. I think he had a rough time last night. There's no question about it. But throughout the debate, trying to listen to Donald Trump talk was painful for me because there was no fact checking that went on. And literally, he doubled down on everything that made people think that he was a terrible president the first time he was in office.

Sir, do you feel at all misled by Democrats very close to President Biden who have insisted that there has been no change in this man over the course of the last two years that would impact his ability to serve another four years?

No, not at all. As a matter of fact, I served with President Biden for two years and I saw him on a regular basis. And the Joe Biden that I saw, the Joe Biden that I work with, and the Joe Biden that is still with us today is a guy that gets up every day thinking about how to help other people. He's 81 years old. Donald Trump is 77. So you had a guy last night that was 81 that had a difficult time and you had a guy that was 77 that lied and when he spoke the truth, he was speaking malevolent truths. That's the choice that the country has.

And so, you know, you can judge the debate on style if you want. I think when people get a little bit clearer from this, they're going to see that Donald Trump last night actually was unhinged as he's indicated that he's going to be and he's going to double down on the policies he had when he was president four years ago, which were not good for the country. Sir, do you think Democrats should consider replacing Joe Biden at the top of the presidential ticket? I've had several raise the possibility privately in conversations.

Well, this is a conversation that's been going on for the past two and a half years. It's not likely to happen. Again, I think as the dust clears on this thing, this campaign has still got four months to go. And I think that Joe Biden is going to be the nominee. And I think Donald Trump's going to be the nominee. And the choice is going to be between a guy that fights for people and tries to lift people up and another guy that wants to rip this country apart and pull it up from its roots.

Do you think that there should be people around President Biden trying to have candid conversations with him? Because it does seem from all of our reporting that it's him and also Jill Biden who have said, we're not going to back away from this. You know, we played what he had to say in 2022. Those midterm wins, well, at least the lack of a sweeping red wave in the midterm elections did give Joe Biden a boost. It quite

quieted a lot of this chatter, but it has just exploded. I mean, what does the president need to do to quiet it down? Well, first of all, he's going to be in North Carolina today. He's going to be campaigning, as you know, and you guys have watched him. He's been campaigning in all of the swing states, and he's going to be out there today. So when the president says to watch me, what the president says is watch me perform. One of the things the president did say last night that you may have missed was that

40 of Donald Trump's cabinet secretaries and people that have worked for him are now not endorsing Donald Trump and they're begging the country not to support him again. The other thing he said that you might have missed is that Donald Trump is a convicted felon. He's also been found liable for sexual abuse. He's also gone bankrupt six times, leaving all of his small business owners holding the bag. I don't know if you guys heard that, but the president in fact did say it.

And so I would just encourage you guys, while you're worrying about style today, to fact check everything Donald Trump said and to measure that against what the truth is and whether those things are good for the country. And then we'll see how this thing shakes out.

Yeah, so here's the thing. I understand what you're saying about style versus substance, but all of those substantive points that you raised are a big part of the reason why so many Democrats are concerned. If Joe Biden loses this election to Donald Trump, so many in your party see this as an existential fight over democracy. Will he be to blame for a second Trump term?

Well, first of all, to be to be in for the second Trump term is the way Donald Trump acts and the positions that he's taken. I am sure to answer your question that you asked before, there's always a truth telling session when these things happen. Joe Biden is not averse to hearing things that are bad. He has to make the decision about whether he's going to be a candidate or not. He has done that and he's going to be the nominee. So again, he started off slow last night. I thought he had some really good points during the debate.

concentrate on the fact that Donald Trump did not tell the truth the entire night. When he did tell the truth, his truths are going to hurt this country in a way that we can't recover from.

All right. Mitch Landrieu, very much appreciate you being willing to come on this morning. Thank you very much for your time. Take care. Thanks so much. You too. All right. Turning now to Donald Trump's debate performance, which, while forceful and confident at points, was also, as the mayor said, filled with some misleading attacks. And it sparked a number of fact checks around his statements about abortion, the economy, foreign policy. Among some of the claims, this from Trump about Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

If we had a real president, the president that knew, that was respected by Putin, he would have never, he would have never invaded Ukraine. He did nothing to stop it. In fact, I think he encouraged Russia from going in. All right, joining me now to discuss is Republican Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. He is supporting Trump in November and is on the former president's shortlist as a possible vice presidential pick. Senator, good morning to you. According to the media, anyways. According to the media. Are you saying you're not?

I don't know. We'll find out, I guess. Do you not want the gig? After last night? After what? After last night, do you not want the gig? Oh, well, it hasn't been offered, so I'm not going to be that presumptuous. I think anybody who has a chance to serve in a position like that at a time like this in our country should be honored by that and consider it. But anyway, I only say that because I read that in the press, but...

No one's told me I'm on any short list, but anyway. -Sir, I want to ask you about some of what we heard from the former president throughout the debate. We spent a lot of time this morning talking about how Democrats are so concerned about their candidate's performance. But in terms of what Donald Trump said on January 6th on issues like Charlottesville, he aggressively downplayed his own role and the things that he had said in both of those cases.

How do you view his comments, particularly on January 6th, as someone who serves in the United States Congress, which was attacked on that day? Well, first of all, that day he had a rally. The statements are there. He talked about being peaceful. He talked about being patriotic.

As his rally was going on, there were already a significant number of people outside the Capitol that weren't even in the rally. And these guys had zip ties and these guys had backpacks and they were ready to go in. And that's the crew that really started this whole deal. They weren't even at the rally. Those people, almost all of them have been arrested. They're in jail. These are violent people and they should be in jail. And he's never said that he would. I think he actually has said that he won't release or in any way try to excuse the people that were violent.

I don't think that that's... I mean, he has called these people the January 6th hostages and said... No, no, no. Well, I'll tell you this much. He's told me, and I've heard him tell others, people that committed acts of violence on that day, you attack a police officer, you destroy public property, you know, you ram through people. Those people need to be in jail. I don't think anyone disputes that. I think that the issue here is, okay, there are some people who...

didn't do those things. They didn't show up with zip ties and masks and all that and were clearly pre-planned, right? It wasn't spontaneous. They went there with a plan.

Some of those people have been charged with excessive conditions have been put on them in terms of detention. So I think when he talks about that, those are the people that he's pointing to. I'm certain that that's the people he's pointing to. And again, doesn't mean that they shouldn't face any consequences. But I do think some of the sentencing in some of those cases has been egregious. And you need to distinguish between the people who went in there violently, prepared to go. You know, you don't just show up with zip ties. You don't just show up with masks. You don't just show up with...

potentially stun guns, whatever they had on them, if you weren't planning acts of violence. And that's inexcusable. Just like I think you pointed to this, there are people that have rioted in this country, burned down cities, defaced public property. A lot of those people weren't even prosecuted. In fact, Kamala Harris was raising money to bail them out. So I don't think political violence is justified in any way, shape, or form by anyone. I don't care what your causes.

Let me ask you about foreign policy, which I know is something that you've spoken with the former president about extensively. Donald Trump shrugged on stage when President Biden asked if he would stay in NATO. Are you comfortable with that? Well, I think he needs to have a negotiating leverage, which is what he used the last time he was there. Let me start by saying this. Donald Trump is not the first American president that has complained about the fact that the United States is

I think over 70% of the funding of NATO is depending on the United States. See, so he's not the only one that's complained about that. Every president has insisted that NATO and NATO nations do more, particularly after the end of the Cold War. And so I think he's reiterating that point. Now, this is a guy who's not political. He's not a politician. He's a guy that's touching the world. He was president of the United States for four years. I know. He is a politician. All right. Well, compared to Joe Biden or others who are in politics.

This is a guy who comes from the world of real estate. And I'm telling you that his view of it is, that's my perception, that he needs to position himself with a negotiating tactic in order to get these countries to respond and to do more. Ironically enough, the countries on the eastern periphery of Europe, Poland and others, the Baltic states, they're all

contributing above the NATO targets. It is the countries in Western Europe that are wealthy countries. Historically, Italy's been that, Germany for a long time, certainly France have not done their part and they need to do more. An alliance is a partnership and partners have to carry their weight. And I think the president has looked for, President Trump consistently, to have the leverage necessary to get these leaders to step up to the plate and do more. And they can do more.

Senator, I want to ask you a little bit more about the possibility that you may be joining the presidential ticket here. And I want to just, I realize a lot has changed since 2016, but here were some of the comments you made at the time about Donald Trump. Let's watch. What I'm dealing with here, my friends, is a con artist.

He is a con artist. Friends do not let friends vote for con artists. The conservative movement in the Republican Party is going to be taken over by a con artist. There is no way that the party of Reagan and the conservative movement, I'm going to allow it to be taken over by a con artist. He says I'm a choker, he's a con artist. This guy is a con artist. So we spared you some of the attacks Donald Trump made on you in that election, but I gotta ask you,

What has changed for you? Well, the main thing that's changed is me because I just saw that video. My God, I look like 20 years younger. Don't we all look so much younger in this question? Don't ever play that video again. 2016. All right. But that said, look, first of all, I didn't even know Donald Trump when he ran. Second, him and I were competing for the same spot.

So I think, I've never seen this before, maybe they do this, but I've never heard a boxer in the middle after a fight ask, hey, why'd you punch that guy in the face in the third round? You were both competing for the same job. But I actually got to work near him, not alongside him, but near him when I was in the Senate. And listen, I'll give you a perfect example, okay? I was not a fan of him going to meet with Kim Jong-un. I thought, that guy's nuts, Kim Jong-un, he's out of control, he's a wild man, nothing's going to come of it. I was very skeptical.

He met with him three times. The second time he actually left early, didn't even go to the lunch Trump canceled because he didn't like the way North Korea was behaving. By the third meeting that they had, Kim Jong Un stopped launching the missiles that he was testing for the duration of the Trump presidency. Now,

He felt that if he can create some interpersonal relationship with a guy, he can get him to stop doing these things. It worked. It was real. That happened. I saw it. I witnessed it. And I was proven wrong. So at the end of the day, I also think, and even by the end of my campaign, I began to talk about this for president. Trump...

If we can put aside for a moment being so busy and being outraged by every phrase and figure of speech that he uses and realize that what Donald Trump was basically arguing was that American politics on both the left and the right had lost touch with the needs of working people, that increasingly our political debates and our political agendas

were dominated by the needs of people that had done very well under globalization. Remember you talking about this in 2016 on the trail. Sure. I do. But he obviously did a better job of talking about it because he won. And he tapped into the belief of millions and millions of Americans that traditional politics had forgotten and left people like them behind. And he pointed to things that made a lot of sense to people, like for example, why do we continue to enter into trade agreements and economic arrangements

where American jobs and factories are sent to create a middle class in another country at our expense. Now, maybe he doesn't express that in the way of a traditional politician. I'll admit right now, and he never has claimed to speak like some sort of expert at a think tank, but he talks a lot like the people out in America on a daily basis. He uses phraseology that they use, and he's describing a very real problem in this country, and that is traditional politics in America in both parties.

had forgotten that millions and millions of Americans have been very negatively impacted in their lives, in their personal lives, in their economic lives, by rapid changes to our economy and particularly by globalization and the outsourcing of jobs and industry. And he tapped into that in a very powerful way. I will just say he did lose the election in 2020 after he got to serve for four years. But Senator Rubio, I'm very grateful to have you this morning. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time.

All right, coming up next here, Donald Trump in Virginia today for a post-debate rally. Will the governor show up this time after previously snubbing him? Plus, Michael Smirconish is here with his take on Biden's rough night. I'm not a political expert, but while Biden was preparing at Camp David for a week, did anyone mention he would also be on camera?

It was a visual contrast that was tough for President Biden last night. The hoarse voice, the open mouth look at the CNN debate that did nothing to allay voter concerns about his mental acuity and his stamina. And while Biden looked down, some Democrats told me that they are starting to look around to search for another candidate who could top the Democratic ticket. Now, joining me now is Michael Smirconish. He is the host of CNN's

Smirconish and of course the CNN political commentator. Michael, good morning. I've been looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what we saw last night. Can I pick up on what Jon Stewart just said, which is with all that debate preparation, you roll tape, you analyze tape. It's like NFL football preparation. I was shocked and I just knew from the outset they must never have shown the president what a split screen looks like and what he looks like.

Casey, I've looked at myself over the years on tape with mouth open and looking foolish. And it's only when you analyze the tape as they should have done that you realize, oh, wait a minute, that camera is always going to be on me and I'm going to want to have a particular expression on my face. I said yesterday that delivery was going to be more important than substance. And that's exactly what came true. It's all about the lack of delivery from President Biden and no amount of fact checking,

of Donald Trump, because I'm sure that debate was littered with falsehoods from Trump. But no amount of fact checking of Trump is going to compensate for the delivery that we saw from President Biden. - Michael, do you think that the talk about potentially replacing Biden at the top of the ticket, and I have heard several people suggest it to me privately, David Axelrod touched on it publicly when he was on our analysis last night. Do you think there's any there there?

There has to be there there. This was not just another incumbent having a poor first debate, a la Reagan, a la Obama. What ails President Biden, by the way, gives me no pleasure to say this. I think he's a good man. What ails him can't be fixed. They need to make a change. And Donald Trump may lose everything.

by winning because I'm convinced that there are stronger candidates, stronger opponents for Donald Trump in the Democratic field so that if it's not Joe Biden, Trump ought to be concerned with who might be that replacement. And I'm thinking beyond Vice President Kamala Harris. Yeah. Who are you thinking about?

I'm thinking about Gavin Newsom. I'm thinking about Amy Klobuchar. I'm thinking about Gretchen Whitmer. I'm thinking about Josh Shapiro. I mean, there's a deep bench for Democrats, a whole new generation of leaders who are out there. And, you know, there's a yearning, I think, for the public to have something different than they saw on that stage. Oh, my God. I think I tweeted on multiple occasions. That's the ultimate low point of debates. And then there would be another one and another one. I've never seen I've never seen anything like it.

It was quite a night. Michael Smirconish, I'm very grateful to have you this morning to hear your take. Thank you very much. Thanks, Casey. All right. Panel's back. Final thoughts here as we head into what is going to be the next phase of this campaign. Alex, let me start with you.

Well, the Biden campaign has been making this argument about style versus substance. You have to focus on the substance, not the style. But the fact of the matter is that in every single televised debate since 1960, the people that are making that argument are the losers of the debate. The fact is that if you are on television, style matters. And you can just see it in terms of how Joe Biden is

It just did not win in terms of the public performance of this debate. Well, and I think you've even been pointing out as well that some of the optics around it, we saw Jill Biden, the president's wife, kind of leading him by the hand down the stairs at the conclusion of the debate in a way that may have sort of also contributed to

to this perception. And actually, Jamal, you can see it right there, sort of very carefully taking one step at a time. Jamal, I mean, big picture here. What are Democrats gonna do?

I think the question is, first of all, what's Joe Biden going to do? And it's going to be incumbent upon the White House and the president to show people that he's not in a bad way. He just had a bad night. And so they can do that. I think, you know, this is one debate, one night. They can do it over the course of the next four months. They've got another debate coming up in September. And we may be talking about something else. Should they do it?

depends on the answer to the question, right? Is was it just a bad night? And if it was just a bad night, then absolutely he has to do it again. If it was more than just a bad night, then we have to think about what else is going to happen next. And I would just say this, listen to Markonis'

I noticed there were people who were missing from that list. People like, if it's not Kamala Harris, which most people would probably be inclined to support in the Democratic Party, if it's not her, what about Raphael Warnock? He's probably the most tested Democrat there is. He's run for office so many times in the state. What about Wes Moore, who's one of the most electorate people in the state, in the country? And so if we're not going to have Kamala Harris... He's supposed to go to the O's game tonight. I'm interested to see if he's going to be there. He can rile up that

crowd, let me tell you. So if you're not going to have Kamala Harris, I think you can't leave an African-American off the list because the Democratic Party is going to be livid if they hop over her and just pick another white guy. Very smart. Jeff Duncan, I want to kind of go to you because the reality is that what we the basic the collapse of President Biden on that stage last night, the metaphorical one, it could be what hands the nomination or the presidency back to Donald Trump. And I mean, you heard Marco Rubio there. The stakes are

are very high. Yeah, the 10% in the middle are still in no man's land right now. And the 10% in the middle, by the way, is going to select who the next president of the United States is. There still has got to be more to come. But I think there's some gnashing of teeth here on both sides thinking, what could have happened? I sat here listening to Senator Rubio talk, and just a half mile from here in 2016, I introduced him to a crowd of folks on a campaign event. And that Marco Rubio had it right.

That Marco Rubio was a bright star in the Republican Party that understood the conservative values. Everybody keeps making excuses around Donald Trump. He sat here and tried to defend January 6th. I sat on January 6th with Brian Kemp at a podium a mile from here at the Georgia Capitol begging Donald Trump to get off his ass and say something to American people that were trying to storm the U.S. Capitol. And he didn't until it was too late.

This is the second time someone has used a word that should be bleeped on this show in the last like seven to ten days. I think I'm going to end up on a seven second delay. It's the Trump America. But your point is very well taken. Kristen, final thought. We keep trying to divide this into style versus substance or do voters care about character versus issues? These things are all connected. The style is the substance when it came to last night. Voters want somebody who's going to be a capable commander in chief. This is not

Oh, they don't like his style because it's a beauty pageant and they don't like what tie he picked. He did not convey that he has what it takes to be the president. That's a massive problem for the country. All right. Well, it's a good way to end this hour as we head in to what is distinctly a new phase of this presidential campaign. Thanks to our panel. Thanks to all of you for joining us this morning. I'm Casey Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN News Central starts right now.

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