Elon's First Cabinet Meeting, Trump's Gold Card, and Bezos' WaPo Revamp
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, how you doing? I finally finished my move. Oh, congratulations. Oh, Scott, it's like, oh, I feel like so in need of not moving anymore ever again. Well, the good news is that probably won't happen. The next move, you won't even be aware it's happening. Yeah.

To the grave. No, no, no, no, no. You're not that old. You'll have some Filipino nurse saying, it's okay, Ms. Swisher, just follow me. And you'll be like, where's grandpa? You'll just be so out of it, you won't even notice. Yeah, grandpa. I'm a lesbian. You'll literally, it'll be like watching a senator stroll around the halls of the rotunda. Oh, Jesus, those senators. Oh, I got to tell you, Scott, being in Washington,

Right now, we're like, okay, now we're in Washington. And we're like, should we leave Washington? Because it's just so heinous. Although we never see these people, so I guess who cares, right? Who cares? I am...

This is a dark side of me. I hate to admit this. I'd kind of welcome a measles outbreak in DC right now. I just think that, I think this surrender clown and his cabinet of the best friends measles ever had. I mean, at what point, and of course it hits a small community in Lubbock. I mean, at what point does, do these literally head up your ass, cruel, weird decisions happen?

come back to DC. I saw this statement, I think it was from Cory Doctorow, and it just perfectly summarized, I really have a difficult time encapsulating what I think is going on or the kind of gestalt of this elite class of tech bros and their representatives in Washington, the vice president and the president. And he summarized it perfectly. He said that

They believe there's an in and an out crowd. And if you read Alex Karp's new book, it's basically engineers and innovators are the in crowd and everybody else is the out crowd. And that essentially the theory is, and I think it's a philosopher, I forget his theory, is that with the in crowd, they are protected by the law, but not bound by it. And the out crowd...

Is bound by it, but not protected by it. Oh, I love that, Corey. And I thought that perfectly summarized what is going on here. And that is these guys love COVID bailouts. They love the protections of free speech. They love the law. They expect the Justice Department to weigh in. Contracts, big fat contracts.

contracts. But they themselves are not subject to it, right? No. No. I mean, whether it's paternity court, they would have a field day with- Andrew Tate getting out in Romania, sex trafficking. The role model for male abandonment, Doge King. I mean, literally, the notion that these folks don't weaponize or don't use the laws and means of transferring wealth and rights from the poor to them-

but at the same time don't feel bound to it. If you want to see, I'm really ranting now, if you want to see a massive amount of corruption, just wait until about three years from now when we find out what happened between now and then in the crypto markets.

you are going to see so many scams. But it's also, Scott, it's in plain sight. Look at there, they're thinking of switching. Starlink people are working at the FAA and suddenly Verizon might be losing its contract to Starlink. It's so obviously, it's so in the open. That's the thing. There used to be back rooms where this shit went down. Now it's front room. You're watching it and then they're telling you why you're stupid for not thinking it's smart. That's the whole trick.

It was interesting because I have a lot of federal workers in our school, as I think I've told you. I always ask what they do, and it's always so helpful, like the stuff they're doing, whether it's at the FDA or one is at the Ag Department, one parent's at the Ag.

And like, they don't know what to do about the stupid five things I did this week kind of thing. Like, you know, and then Musk mocks them saying it's inane and trivial. They should have been able to do it. And then, so they have an ounce of sense in the middle of lunacy. That's what drives, like, sure, they could do it, but why? Or let me give you a good example. It's not everybody because, look, Apple shareholders voted, so did Costco and John Deere, to keep DEI initiatives in the company. They can do that.

Right? Instead- Private company. Private company, except now Trump is threatening them. And Tim Cook has to say, we've got to follow the law, even though shareholders, who are supposed to be the best friends of these fuckers, want something else. It's just amazing. It's amazing. These guys, I can't tell you how profoundly disappointed I am in this. These whores trying to protect themselves against

or excuse their behavior, texting you or other people. I hate myself. Well, we fucking hate you more. We hate you too. If there's anybody who has the money and the resources to stand up to this bullshit... Tim Cook. It is Tim Cook, Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Sam Altman, and his hushed tones and concerns about AI. Fuck you. You are literally...

The very principles, rule of law, separation between business and state, systemic laws, not individual laws where you give a million dollars to a campaign for favorable treatment. These ridiculous fake announcements. Okay, put out a press release claiming they were spending a quarter of a trillion dollars because of President Trump, even though it's all fucking jazz hands. It's all bullshit. Yeah.

Somebody I'd like to think in the business community is going to reach down and feel these circular things in between their legs and go, you know, no. A vagina? No. There you go. Or a vagina and say, okay. Let's be honest, though. They're all men. And say, okay, no, we're not doing this. And you're right. Shareholders brace.

He might announce a bunch of tariffs until he like... Except he's got permission from shareholders to do it, right? The shareholders have spoken of what they want. At Apple, they've said, we want DEI. They want DEI. So does Costco. So somebody like either you listen to shareholders or you're not trying to protect

them they've decided knowing full well what the price is, what they want. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But speaking of which, we've got a lot to get to today. The one person we're going to talk about initially is exactly this person. We're going to talk though about Nvidia's earnings, which were blockbuster Tesla struggles. No one wants to buy their shitty cars. They're not shitty cars. They're shitty because of their owner, their creator. In fact, not even their creator. I don't know. I like the Model SS.

Did you say swastikar? Swastikar, yeah. Zero to 1939 in three seconds. That's right. All this stuff is so good. It's so good. His pronouns are now he and Himmler. Himmler. Oh, nice, Himmler. Often a forgotten Nazi, but very critical. There you go. Played a key backup role. Character actor in the whole drama. No, he did a lot. He was quite horrible. Anyway, and Trump's gold card, which is ridiculous. But let's start with Jeff Bezos. Speaking of tiny goals.

The Washington Post opinion editor David Shipley, by the way, my wife used to work for him, but she quit and is thrilled that she did now that this came out, has stepped down after Jeff Bezos announced a significant shift to the opinion page. Bezos said the Post will now publish daily opinion stories on two editorial pillars, pretty much, and you have to be for them, personal liberties and free markets. You can't be against those. What does that mean? I will tell you, yes.

Personal liberties, I'll do what I fucking want. Free markets, I'll do what I fucking want. There you go. Okay? I get what they're trying. They're trying to be the Wall Street Journal. It's that the Wall Street Journal has intelligent people working for it. And the Washington Post has Megan McArdle. The opinion section will cover other subjects as well. Not really, but will not publish viewpoints opposing those pillars. What's the

point of having them. What does that mean? Meaning if you're against, if you're for social justice or some regulation, you can't write a piece. You can't oppose free markets, even if you do. Like, if you have a very good argument about why we need guardrails on Amazon's shitty behavior and

I don't know. Whatever. You can't oppose Jeff Bezos. You can't oppose Jeff Bezos. He said he believes the viewpoints in the new categories are underserved in the current market of ideas and news opinion. No, they're not, Jeff. They're done by the Wall Street Journal, which does them. Don't always agree, but pretty fucking good. Sounds like not original idea. The head of the opinion section, David Shipley, who already...

He just fell down when he was doing the Kamala Harris thing, has decided he can't do this. I can't believe he didn't go the first time, but here it is. And of course, Jeff Bezos in an interview with Matthias Döckner in 2018 said he would never do things like this. And this is exactly what he's doing. He said he'd be embarrassed and he would feel terrible when he was 80 years old.

So here we are. He can do what he wants with this fucking newspaper, but it's a piece of shit now. Go ahead. But I don't even really understand what that means. We're only going to talk about... It doesn't mean anything. I don't... So do you not have an opinion? Isn't the whole idea of opinion is that you're going to be provocative and perhaps...

upset some people and catalyze a dialogue that perhaps helps craft better solutions. What's the point? He says the internet has viewpoints opposing those pillars. Fair point. So why wouldn't the Washington Post? I just don't get any of this. I'm having trouble even making an argument for or against it. I don't know what it means other than him saying, I don't like the way it's being run now. I kind of get it, but it's so like...

kindergarten version of opinion sections. It's like, oh, we need more diverse voices. Okay, get them, publish them, do them. Like have everybody argue. You have to have viewpoints opposing personal liberties and free markets if you really want to have an opinion section, but he doesn't really want to have it. He wants a billionaire propaganda arm. I think this is what Penny, that I think has dropped in his noggin, is that I can use this as a cudgel.

If Musk can use Twitter X as a cudgel, I can use this as a cudgel. So I can do this via now. Interestingly enough, the Wall Street Journal has been very critical of Trump. They've been very critical about the tariffs, about the behaviors, about the nonsense, and actually making some great arguments. And they've featured those.

I'll be interested to see what Bezos, well, I'm not interested at all, but we'll see what he does here. But it seems like he'll try to get someone, I don't know, there's a lot of people who think this, who go on and on about say and do what you want. And then when push comes to shove, you don't get to say and do what you want. You get to say and do what your billionaire owner wants. I mean, the reality is with these newspapers now, there used to be 20, about 60 or 80 million subscriptions in the US. It's gone down to 20 million. Some have made the jump.

to digital such as the New York Times. But the problem is it's a zero sum game. And so when they thought, okay, the Washington Post is doing good work, it usually comes to the cost of someone else. They are now, as someone who's I think got some distance from the Washington Post, I like it, I have affection for it,

But the reality is, it just feels like it's circling the drain right now. Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't feel like it has a growth strategy. Significance, relevance. The people who like the post are quite frankly, I hate to use this word, but kind of the cultural elite.

They don't anymore, actually. Well, my view is they're pretty prickly. And when a billionaire weighs in with his views without really understanding journalism, it turns off their readers and their employees. And it's probably very damaging for the culture. Right. Are they going to get MAGA readers? They're not. They're not. MAGA readers have really good stuff to read. You want to read Ben Shapiro? You want to listen to Megyn Kelly scream at you for whatever fucking reason she likes to scream all day? It's all

kinds of great content out there. You have plenty of choice in that area. So they're not going to

The sensible center is horrified by Donald Trump. So kissing up to him seems like the stupidest move. The two winners here are, if he had said, I do think there's an opportunity. If you look at the amount of media coverage that sports gets, if you look at the amount of media coverage that politics gets, I think relative to its importance in the economy and the consumer's obsession with it, I would argue the opportunity in media is

and in podcasts, and I'm thinking a lot about this, is business. So if he were to say, if he were to say we're going to focus, we're going to try and really beef up our coverage of the economy and business issues relating to the markets and everyday pricing and how it affects people's lives. And we're going to debate the shit out of it. Because we all are kind of obsessed with Amazon and taxes and innovation and how AI affects us or doesn't in terms of our jobs. I think there's real opportunity here. Agreed. The biggest winner of this move, hands down,

are the heads of HR and recruiting at the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. Because every talented,

My sense is that every organization, there's between 10 and 20% of the employees that add 120% of the value and the rest are negative 20. And what I mean by that is you have to have B players to scale. I know that sounds disparaging, but at every organization, they're generally a group of superstars that just drive a disproportionate amount of value. Absolutely. Those 10 or 20 people at the Washington Post

have their pictures and their names like an FBI mob board at the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. And guess what? They've already grabbed them. I'm having lunch today with one the New York Magazine just grabbed. But go ahead. They'll all return your calls now. They have never-- you're going to see-- they are literally-- the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and some media players are going to come for the heart and the lungs of the Washington Post. They are picking and choosing. I've talked to the Times people who do this hiring.

I've talked to the journal people, and they're calling me to ask me who's good, what do I think of this person, this and that. And they're not going to grab everybody, by the way, even if they're really good, but everyone's leaving. And, you know, today I'm having lunch with Ben Terrace, who's a wonderful political reporter, and he's joined New York Magazine. Fantastic. Like, fantastic. Like, did great work at the Post.

And by the way, let me just weigh one in. They are doing, some of the reporting has been excellent. They did a great piece on Elon being a welfare queen, which you retweeted, $38 billion. They did another one. They did like six or seven really great accountability stories in recent weeks.

So it's just, when is Bezos going to meddle there? Which I think he will, 100%. But you're right. It's an opportunity to pick an area to go into and really drill the fuck down. The way he's going is so stupid. And the way they're...

I would deploy AI in a really smart way. They're doing it in a stupid way. They are just going... This is a huge opportunity. When did Jeff Bezos become Marc Andreessen? That's what I want to know. Oh, he was always like this. Really? I always thought he was a pretty, like...

No, he was super aggressive. He was always, let me just tell you, of all the people I covered, he was the most tweaky when it came to stories he didn't like. He does not like journalists. He doesn't. He never did. Marc Andreessen actually kind of liked journalists. Yeah, but

The bottom line is it's because most journalists just aren't that hot, Cara. I know that's what it is. I'm just saying. Bezos came from Wall Street. He worked for whatever, a hedge fund, D.E. Shaw. I don't know what that is, an investment bank hedge fund, whatever. He was older. He was money-focused. I never thought he was anything, but I called him feral in my book. He was feral. And I think he broke up with his wonderful wife.

And, look, Lauren's fine, whatever, but it's a different personality. And he had an opinion. If you listen to that 2018 interview, it is a different person. Now he likes wearing those weird, unfortunate shirts that he wears and tight jeans and showing off his chest and living the good life on the yacht. And he doesn't give a fuck. You know, who knows?

I think he's a really dull thinker. Anyway, moving on. How do you really feel? President Trump hosted his first cabinet meeting, speaking of stupid, Wednesday, with co-president Elon Musk in attendance. Really, truly, standing up, talking almost as much as Trump. Trump recognized Musk to speak first and surveyed the room on approval for Doge's work and whether they like Elon. Guess what, Scott? Everybody applauded. Yeah.

Although Marco Rubio looked like he was, you know, having diarrhea at that moment. Elon at one point said Doge had accidentally canceled an Ebola prevention program. Let's listen. We will make mistakes. We won't be perfect. But when we make a mistake, we'll fix it very quickly.

So for example with USAID, one of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was Ebola, Ebola prevention. I think we all wanted Ebola prevention. So we restored the Ebola prevention immediately and there was no interruption.

Not true, according to expert after expert. Everyone on the field said nothing's been restored. It's gone from 60 people to six. He just opens his mouth and he tells, he's disingenuous. Trump also addressed efforts to slash federal workforce, which he's going to continue, including 65% or so of the EPA. He talked about terrorists, the upcoming meeting with Ukrainian President Zelensky. He's trying to shake them down for mineral rights.

So it's paper flay military help, which we really have sort of done, but not this explicitly. Just the whole thing. And getting the cabinet just to applaud. They probably were like, they tried to resist some of this Doge stuff, and now they had to applaud in public. Like, can you, I wish someone had gone, yeah, I don't like him. He's a fucker, President Trump. But no one did, of course.

Anyway. Yeah. Well, speaking of the Wall Street Journal, they did some great analysis

a couple of days ago saying that they think so far, Doge has saved a whopping $2.6 billion. Yeah, a whopping. And- They're claiming 60, right? They're claiming 60. Yeah, they're claiming 60. And by the way, Musk has received subsidies, depending on how you count them, somewhere between 15 and 50 billion. So if you want a 6X, the Doge savings, just cut off all subsidies to Tesla. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, again, it's-

Look over here. And also, I'm trying to do the analysis. I believe that these tax cuts will cut, will cost taxpayers more in terms of the treasury, just the benefits that Elon Musk will accrue than the savings he is garnering at Doge. That's right. So if you wanted to double the savings of Doge, you would just say, okay, thank you for your service, but you are no longer entitled to the tax cuts. Right.

I mean, this is it's just the math ain't math. And for lack of a better term, I don't think I don't think they should focus on the injustice. I don't quite frankly, I don't think it's outrageous to get an email from somebody saying, tell us what you did last week. I think that's how it's done, Scott. It's how it's done. Agreed. Agreed. But it's that's not where our focus should be. Our focus should be, OK, you recognize that.

that the Department of Energy has been, Department of Energy, and I forget what the exact term is, has been tasked with cutting 800 billion. There's no way they can avoid Medicare and Medicaid. And by the way, when you privatize, okay, so a kid is still going to need his medication. Unless we decide to just let them die, they're going to get their medication. That's what we're doing. Go ahead. Give me some running room. I don't think that's going to happen. What's going to happen is it's going to be privatized.

And either the employer or the individual or the county or the state is going to have to go into the private market and buy it. And then the insurance company and the pharmaceutical and the medical industrial complex will insert themselves, make it less efficient, less cost effective, such that shareholder value goes up in the industrial medical complex.

The privatization, essentially what these autocrats or these oligarchs want is they want the privatization of everything. That way they can insert themselves in the middle for shareholder value. There are cities that have privatized everything, the utilities, the water, services, they've privatized everything. And what happens traditionally or typically is that there are some things that should be privatized. But when you privatize the post as they did here in London, what you end up with is a more expensive service where shareholders and companies

get to skim or scoop up that incremental margin. And that is what they want here, is they want to get government out so they can insert, one, private enterprise and make money, and two, emasculate any regulation or oversight of their near-grifty businesses. Yeah, I would agree. And what's happening here is they're really hurting people who voted for you. Have you seen the space? There's a great one, speaking of which, in the Washington Post. She hoped Trump's victory would change her life, but not like this.

Doge cut her job and she was like, oh, I thought they were going to take DEI people. Like what, you know, honestly, leopards should eat every one of these people's faces as far as I'm concerned. You know what I mean? They did everything in their self-interest and then he didn't do anything he said he was going to do.

so far and they're cutting them. And so they're gonna, you know, no schadenfreude here, but they voted for what they voted and this is what they're getting. I agree. But the basis of DEI or the arguments against DEI is that it made sense, I think, if you were to steel man this, it made sense at some point to have DEI, but many of these problems I won't have been

I won't say have been solved, but have been addressed in terms of a workforce that somewhat resembles the population. The problem is, is the basis of the arguments for doing away with DEI is that you risk economic growth and even safety if in fact you're not hiring based on competence. Now, that is a real argument, but that argument holds no water when you are hiring fucking idiots to go into your cabinet, when you're hiring Fox News hosts

to be the Secretary of Defense and you're claiming we need to get rid of DEI so we have more competence, that this becomes a meritocratic. I mean, it's just so cynical to talk about skills and domain expertise and who earned and deserves the job and who would execute or prosecute the job with the most competence when you are bringing in seriously a fucking village, a circle of village idiots. First,

Measles death since 2015. First one. Planes are falling out of the sky. There's been like seven of them right now, at least seven really dangerous plane things. I mean, as I say, they exchange DEI for DAF. Dumb as fuck. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, more on Doge.

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These days, I can do anything from my phone, book a vacation, order a meal from a five-star restaurant, buy and trade stocks. But maybe the most amazing thing I can do is make my dirty laundry disappear and then reappear perfectly washed and folded. I have Rinse to thank for that. I just schedule a pickup in the Rinse app or at Rinse.com. A Rinse valet comes to get my clothes, and before I know it,

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Gleason's LinkedIn lists her as U.S. Digital Services Senior Advisor. CBS News, when contacted Gleason regarding the story, said she was in Mexico and declined to comment. They just gave a name. And that very testy woman who does press for Trump gets very testy. Very testy. She's got very Megyn Kelly vibes. Anyway,

Twenty-one Doge staffers resigned, saying in a letter they would not lend their expertise to carry out legitimizing Doge's actions. The staffers were previously part of the U.S. Digital Service, which was created by President Obama. So these are people who were there helping the government update themselves, and they're just not going to put up with big balls and the rest of the crew, the idiot douche boys crew.

The Trump administration in Doge had a rough week with courts. On Tuesday, three federal judges dealt setbacks to the administration involving federal spending, refugees, and foreign aid, though Chief Justice John Roberts temporarily delayed a midnight deadline for the administration to unfreeze $2 billion in foreign aid payments on Wednesday. Scott, I have no comment on this. I'm in Mexico. Yeah, I don't. But I'm more interested in they're using her as a prop such that somebody, I think someone...

I think my guess is Musk's lawyer said, nothing good can come from you having any sort of official affiliation here. That's right. Yeah. And so we need a figurehead to just prop up and say they're in charge, even despite the fact no one can even find her or get any sort of statement from her. Oh, she's in charge. That way, when these myriad of lawsuits actually get to a quote unquote judge who looks at the law,

We need to figure it. It's almost like they've created, she's effectively the equivalent of a human LLC, where you create a corporate shield between her and Musk. I just can't, I'm trying to figure out the legalities. She worked for the old service and from people there, she was not. She's a figurehead. She's meaningless. She was not, she did not impress people with her skills. That's what I would say is how they talk about her.

No, she's just a figurehead. It's ridiculous. I mean, what's interesting is, you know, they do want this to be in court all the time. So they just, it's like a ground war with these people, right? And they keep pushing back the way they, after the Apple shareholders, and they're going to threaten Tim Cook. They just never frigging give up. They're like,

They're swarmers. I don't know what else to say. The strategy is probably very smart just to keep making trouble and move from department to department, making destruction, and then fixing it will be just impossible, right? That's the goal, I think, here. Can I ask you a question? Sure. I'm veering from the script, which will drive our producers crazy because we won't get to sell as many fucking ZipRecruiter ads. Ah, ZipRecruiter. That's right. Link it in.

Let it in. Z-biotics. Let's party tonight and let's not feel it in the morning. Hello, dog. Why don't we have any weed ads? You're like edible. Edible ads. You think?

Jesus, not for you, not me. Oh, my God. E.D. Chubel Viagra. Hello. Have you met me? E.D. slash weed ads. All right, go ahead. What's your question? What did you think of James Carville's opinion piece that would the Democrats to just sit back and let, you know, kind of let them have at it and let Americans kind of see what happens here? Well, he's been awfully wrong about a lot of things, if you really actually follow him closely. You know, he was like, this is how it's going to go for Trump. He's going to lose this way. And then he did so eloquently.

And someone noted. Well, we said that. I know that's true, but we're not James Carville. Right. So I think it's not a bad idea, except if it's a very serious thing. Right. If it's something really hair on fire, we should be here on fire appropriately. I think we should be obstructed. I think the Republicans, when they got into office and they were in the minority, just as

Speaking of someone who's retiring, Mitch McConnell shut it down. And I think that's what we should do. I think we should be difficult, obstructive, not worry about people blaming us for it.

Just get in the way. Just muck up the gears. Let them make a mess. I would agree with him on that. I would agree. There's no use saying, can you believe... I was on CNN last night with Caitlin Collins and she goes, what do you make of this Gaza AI thing? I'm like, I don't give a fuck. It's racist. It's obnoxious. He's doing it to distract us. Moving...

Moving on. It's stupid. And why are the belly dancers having beards? I don't know. I don't care. I don't care. And I think it's mean and terrible and cruel. But what do you want me to say? That's what I think he is. So I think that's the kind of reaction. We can't like swing at every stupid pitch these people put out. I like it. What did you think?

I'm torn. Actually, I think I have a little bit more reverence for James. I think he's brilliant. I do, too. I do, too. I enjoy how sort of courageous he is. I thought his clip on Fox was just amazing. Great. That was great. And...

I'm thinking of him as sort of a role model. I just like how he's eased into his eighth decade wearing LSU sweatshirts and just being fearless. And also, I went to a wedding with him. He likes to party, but go ahead. You'd like him. Oh, I'm sure. You know that guy. He's like, I'll have a mint julep every five minutes. Yeah, that was essential. And his wife, Mary Matlin. They're an act. They were the funniest people at the lesbian wedding, but go ahead. They're a pair. Yeah.

I worry that if we don't, I think there's a way to respond. I like what you said, become obstructionist and just, and get in the way of stuff. I'm up for actually shutting down government. I think we should just say, fine, have at it. Nope, let's shut it down. But I worry that if we don't respond pretty aggressively, that we de facto normalize what's going on.

And I and I struggle with it because I can see his point. It's a really interesting tactical suggestion. Yeah. Well, just to just sit there and say this is all Republicans now. Let's let them have at it. See what happens, folks. Hey, U.S. citizens, you you know, you broke it. You bought it. It's this is you and not even not give them the satisfaction of being hysterical or responding or swinging back or counterpunching wildly.

But I think where I land is I think you need to be smart about how you respond, but you need to just say consistently with facts and experts, we cannot normalize this. This is not, measles should not be a thing. Yes, 100%. I think aggression is, I think we let them own everything and then aggression, just be like a fucking, like do a Mitch McConnell, just do a Mitch McConnell. You know who I think we need more of? I think we need more kind of what I'll call dark people

I don't wanna call it dark MAGA, but dark woke. One of my favorite comedians, Bill Burr. I love Bill Burr. It's basically saying this billionaire fuck Musk just because he didn't get laid in high school, we have to put up with his hair plugs and his total lack of empathy. It's like, how much more money do you guys need? There's so much money in this country and people have to get a second and a third job and can't be with their kids.

And I think we need more of that energy. Just embrace. You have to have that right in their face. You do. Because I told you this. I was at an event and one of the stupid tech bros came up to me and they're like, oh, we're beating you, Kara. You know, we're beating you. That's true. And I looked at them and I said, you're still a dickless asshole.

And they were like, I go, and I still don't want to talk to you. And I moved along. And they didn't know what to do. They were not going to get me in any way. Yeah, you have to still punch them in the nose. Punch them in the nose. Anyway, speaking of punching in the nose, speaking of not lack of erection, it's been a tough week for Tesla. Tesla shares plunged more than 8% on Wednesday, pushing its market cap

Below $1 trillion, the stock is down 25% for the year. That drop followed the news that sales in Europe are down 45% from this time last year. Elon backlash is being credited with some of the recent decline, but other factors include increased EV competition from China, BYD, and consumers wanting a new model. Like, where's the new fucking model, Elon? Why don't you make better new cars? Not better cars, it's a good car.

And there's lots of choices. And nobody likes this fucker. And people are putting things on the cars, writing on the cars. People have signs on their cars saying, I hate him too. I don't know what, stop, you know, taking the air out of my tires and keying in my thing. I don't do this, but I think about keying them.

I do. And that's the thing. I never think like that. I'm like, oh, I should key this fucking car. But I don't. Just everyone know that. Is there anything to be done here? Or is it just a declining situation for this company? Well, I mean, first off, all these things require context. And that is, in the past year, the stock, even with its drawdown, is up 50%.

it still trades at just an exceptional valuation. It's trading at PE today of 145. I think Ford trades at a P of like six or seven. So I think the market when a company becomes this overvalued is looking for reasons to take it down. But there's just no getting around it. The sales are down in Germany and across Europe and also in California, sales are off between 10 and 40 percent. So this is really having an impact on sales.

And he still gets, I think, about a third of his net worth from his stake in Tesla. I think it's just getting started. I mean, I think you remember my prediction three weeks ago. You were right. My broken clock was that at some point, this is going to hurt the brand so much. I mean, I got to think at some point, people don't want...

to drive into a parking lot and have people flip them off, which is everyone's, not everyone. A lot of people's inclination now when you see someone in a Tesla is to- I don't like them. Is like, oh, what an asshole or flip them off. I sold my Tesla three years ago and people said I was overreacting. Look, you should stay out of politics as a general rule for brands. It is finally starting. I think it got them some loyalty. I think it sort of is a reference and a little bit like

kind of innovation, politically incorrect. Actually, I think that probably got him some additional customers for a while. But this feels like a lot of people, even people who probably support him, think, I just don't need the hassle of someone judging me by the car I roll up in, in terms of my politics. Now, I want to be judged when I roll up in a Range Rover. It means that I'm in the midst of a midlife crisis and I can afford it. And would you like to jump on, speaking of erectile dysfunction? Yeah, it's a good looking car.

For people, for context, as Scott was saying, year over year, it's up 47, almost 48%. Five years, it's up 561%. And max, 27%.

22,000, 23,000% up. So it's six months is up 40%. One month is down, but it's down is where it's headed. They just need, look, if they had a great car, people might buy it. But you're right. I like, just, I think that a hassle, even if you like Elon Musk is probably going to bother people. And,

And I don't hurt any of these cars, but I did yell, pin dick, to someone in a Cybertruck recently, which I enjoyed. Pin dick. Pin dick. The interesting thing will be—

So the stock's overvalued. The market's looking for reasons to take it down. The product lineup feels stale. The interesting thing will be is if his kind of off-camera activities here or his extracurricular activities begin to infect Starlink because Starlink really is an amazing product and they are signing up new customers like crazy. What I'm interested in or waiting for is the first company to

that says we're reconsidering our deal with Starlink. Because so far it's just impacted Tesla. If it goes after, if it starts to infect SpaceX slash Starlink, then Houston has a real problem. And I think you probably are going to see that in the next 30 days. A big carrier or a government or someone's going to say,

we're rethinking our relationship with Starlink. I think one of the things that's important that people should think about is, is the product good? Can save you a lot of stuff. Although even if the product is good and people think you're an asshole, it does affect it. You just stop buying it. You just...

I definitely have bought less Amazon stuff because I'm like, why should I give this guy money? I'll give it to Macy's. It's a little harder, but it's not that much harder. They still have a better product in terms of delivery. But I'm like, I just don't like them. I just don't like them. I like, you know, I just...

I don't want to give Jeff Bezos money. And that's how people, that's how it begins, right? And then you find other alternatives. It's a real opportunity for other car makers, that's for sure. It's funny you say that because last night I was watching Game of Thrones with my 14-year-old. Again. And the easiest way to buy it was on, it never gets old, Cara. It never gets old. And so-

But last night, the easiest way to buy it was on Amazon Prime. And for the first time, I thought, is there another place I can buy it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Small little decisions like that. Pindick. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about NVIDIA beating earnings expectations and Trump's plan to woo wealthy foreign investors. Support for this show comes from Oracle.

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Scott, we're back. NVIDIA has done it again with another blockbuster earnings report. Quarterly earnings were $39 billion, a 78% increase compared to Q4 last year. Profits spiked 80% from a year earlier to $22 billion, beating Wall Street's expectations. The company projected revenue in the current quarter will rise 65% to $43 billion, a little less than $78 billion, but still good. Has NVIDIA put

These deep seek fears to rest. Remember, just a month ago, NVIDIA had a $600 billion wipeout when deep seek burst on the scene. It seems like nobody's talking about that now. Thoughts on this? Because, you know, again, by the way, for people to understand, it really, the stock market rises and falls on NVIDIA's shoes right now. And only, speaking, you know who I interviewed? Aswath.

That's what's going on, right? Yes, he talked all about this. But it's seven stocks that are moving the stock market, and NVIDIA is at the top of the list. Yeah, some would say 10, but yeah, the Magnum is at seven. He sold his NVIDIA, just so you know. Yeah. Look, what's interesting about the market right now is with respect to NVIDIA or some of these other companies, their expectation or the expectations are that they'll beat expectations. Because what happened yesterday was...

Again, Nvidia beat expectations. It came in at 39.3 billion versus a projection of 38.3. Its earnings were 89 cents versus projected 84 cents, and the stock is down 1% today.

People have gotten so used to, or the market has gotten so used to these companies just blowing away expectations that when they only slightly beat expectations, they kind of, if you will, actually don't meet the expectations. So this company has gotten just so incredibly valued. The unusual thing about this company, and people like to compare it to Cisco, is that Cisco's

Price earnings multiple went crazy. And the price earnings multiple has expanded here, but it hasn't expanded nearly as much because their earnings growth has also been exponential. So it does appear to have, I don't want to even say flatline because the gains here have been so extraordinary, but the stock is down 5% year to date. And it's just flat for the last six months after what is like 100X increase over the last year.

I don't know, over the last decade. It really has been the stock of the last decade, but the expectations around these companies now are that you're going to beat expectations. What's going to happen here? You still feel people are going to start spending less on it. They're also seeing competition. They will see competition as has other companies. I'm of the mind that there's a non-zero probability, maybe a one in three chance,

where AI ends up being more like the PC industry and the airline industries, where consumers capture the majority of value because they're not able to create sustainable moats. And I think DeepSeek was the first sort of signal of that. And that is, arguably, jet transportation and PCs should be the most valuable companies in the world. They're not. And I wonder, I mean, a lot of these LLMs are beginning to feel pretty similar, right?

Although I can't stand anthropic, it's so fucking PG-13, so I can't make recommendations around this. - Is it? Then we'll talk about aroused penises? Okay. - And also I think it's just gonna be, this could be in fact one of those industries

And this is a good thing. The winners might be us. The winners might be all industry. Industry has garnered enormous in citizens' shareholder value from jet transportation and the PC, but very few companies were able to create moats such that they could capture a lot of the value for specific shareholders. And I think if there's evidence of that this year or there's a slowdown, I think you're absolutely going to see a real correction. And all I can say

say is what I'm doing, because I don't think anybody knows, I am rotating out of US stocks into foreign stocks. Because if you look at US growth stocks, which have really carried the day for the last 15 years, relative to their historical averages, they are in the 98th percentile right now. So there's only 2% of the time in history, like basically sometime in 1999 or 2007, have they been more expensive. At the same time,

Large cap value companies in Europe, Latin America and China are at their 2%, meaning that they've been higher 98% of their historical or in history, they've been higher 98% of the time. So I am rotating out. Interesting.

Interesting. Let me, can I tell you, Aswath said not to do that. He said, he thinks these U.S. companies are global companies. And so you are investing globally. You're investing globally. And by the way, if it's, if in fact you're dumb enough to listen to any of us, absolutely listen to Aswath. But when you have Apple. He's on my podcast today, but yeah, go ahead. But when you have Apple trading at a P.E. of 39 and it traditionally trades at 18.

I mean, it's just not a bad, it's not a terrible idea to think about taking some chips off the table. And some are in cash, like Warren Buffett is much more in cash. He's moved hugely to cash. But Oswald said don't do that because you can never time it correctly and you can be too slow or too fast, like you were saying the other day. Anyway, speaking of cash, President Trump is unveiling a new visa to attract rich foreigners to the U.S., the gold card. For $5 million, very high-level people will get it.

that legal permanent residency and a new route to citizenship, according to Trump. The gold card would replace the current EB-5 visa, which requires investors put in a million dollars and creates at least 10 jobs. The new initiative is set to be rolled out in two weeks, although some experts are skeptical that it can happen without congressional approval. I don't know. More than 100 countries do offer golden visas to wealthy investors and individuals, including Australia, Greece, Italy, and Spain. It's not a new idea.

I don't know. It's another hand-wavy distraction. I don't know. I just feel like, whatever. Like, rich people always get to live where they want. So, okay. That's right. Rich people can go not only shopping for clothes or experiences, they can go shopping for rights. So if they're, back to the statement of these people are protected by the law but not bound by it, if you're a wealthy person, in fact, you are protected

the law has kind of gotten fed up with you, you can go somewhere else. Or if you're worried about persecution, but you're right, this is nothing new. The EU has taken in approximately $23 billion selling visas across Europe

Greece, Malta, Portugal, Spain. The UK used to have a golden visa and then the populace got pissed off by it. What's unusual about this is the price point at 5 million. I would think that that probably just appeals. So I'm on a visa here in the UK. I'm on what's called a tech talent visa where I had to say I bring specialized differentiated skills around technology. So give me and my family a five-year visa. And they agreed.

The notion that you can buy in is not new. What's weird is the price point, because what I think this says is you don't have any other options and maybe you're a little bit on the run or- Yeah, right, exactly. We're looking at the bad ones, like the kind of sketchy ones. Or the tax authorities are closing in on you, because if you look at one of the reasons-

the British economy or London specifically has done really well, or I would argue has done well over the last 30 or 40 years. I mean, London is the most, Paris is the most beautiful city in the world. London is the most handsome. And when you came here in the 80s, I've been coming here since I was a kid because my parents are from here. It was a shitty city, bad food, ugly rundown. It was just infrastructure was collapsing. It was really a mess. And

And Tony Blair basically did something similar in that he passed a series of incredibly airtight private property laws that said you can be an African warlord or a Russian oligarch, but if you bring in a million, 10 million or a billion dollars into the UK and you buy property here and you invest your money with British banks, no one can come for it.

It's here. No one can come take it away from you. And as a result, London basically became, even more so than New York, I would say, every wealthy person's second or first home. Right. And it has catered. It has become a butler economy. But it's kind of the sketchy ones, right? It feels like there's a lot of mobsters from Russia. Well, I'm not sure that's fair. Some of them. But it definitely, I think the rich people, the very fine rich people are already here.

I just think this appeals to a different point. That's a great point because here's the difference between London and America. People go to America to make their billion, people come to London to spend their billion and protect it.

And that is my biggest criticism or observation of the London economy. And this is the question I spoke at the Royal Academy of Arts last night. I needed an excuse to drop that. So I'm doing it right now. Fancy. So fancy. Oh my God. You say it like this, fancy. I sat next to this lovely woman named Dame Rothschild last night, who's actually a quite successful author. She gave me the whole Rothschild story. Dame? Dame.

Dame Rothschild, yeah. Okay, all right. Anyways, it was... By the way, that is an incredible venue. I think that was probably the highlight of my London experience so far. But anyways, people always ask me, how would you distinguish London from the U.S.? And one of the things I say is that

This entire economy in the UK is serving wealth created elsewhere. Yeah. And that is the wealthiest people I know here are people in money management. They own great hotels, great restaurants. They're servicing wealth that was built and created or inherited somewhere else. Or stolen.

Well, I think that's a little unfair. I think the majority of these people... Well, the majority of the people I know here have made a lot of money somewhere else. Okay. Anyways, whereas in the U.S., people go to the U.S. to make their money. And there's so much risk-taking and so much aggression. Again, my...

Collective distillation or summary, having molested the earth for the last 30 years, is America is still the best place to make money and Europe is the best place to spend it. Butlers. Butlers. They're good butlers. It's a butler economy. Can I give you a piece of information? Dame is an honorific title given to women who have been admitted to certain orders of chivalry. Well, it's like being a serf. Serf.

It's a circle. Yeah, it's like being knighted. You're knighted except you have indoor plumbing. That's correct. Well, whatever's Trump. Sell your stupid gold things. You're not going to make much money at it. But whatever. It'll be really interesting to see how many people do it and who it collects. If you need to spend $5 million to get into the U.S.,

Yeah. That's not a great forward-looking indicator of why you need to do that. I feel like we're getting the sketchy types are going to roll on in. It's going to be, it will be real, someone will do some investigative reporting and find out the first- Oh, that's a good story. David Fahrenthold, calling David Fahrenthold of the New York Times. The first hundred people that are willing to pay five million bucks to hang out or hide in the U.S. or avoid tax, local tax authorities. All right. It's going to be very interesting. Yeah. All right. Come on down, you-

Sketchy people. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

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Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I think Doge is going to be over and done by the end of the year. I think the reason that Musk invented it and came up with it is for money. People talk about patriotism. Sure, it looks like it. Every time we dig further into these things, we find out that these individuals are doing everything to try and get richer. And I think he thought, I can get in there.

and under the auspices of some sort of fucked up perverted means of patriotism or getting out my

anger or whatever it is, or getting more news about me. I'll also get a twofer because I'll basically fire everybody who's getting in the way of my autonomous car. Yeah, his work is done. Yeah, I'll get in the way. I'll defenestrate anyone around trying to get in the way of space launches. I think it's all about money. And I think he saw an opportunity to clear out the regulatory hurdles that's between him and a trillion dollars. Having said that, I think over the last 30 days, he's found out there's a tax to this. And that is,

I think I felt a noticeable pivot in the last 48 hours of the narrative around all this shit. I think people. Well, you tell me because I'm in a bubble and I don't understand the American people anymore. And I realize how out of touch I am. But I felt like, OK, people want to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. He should get to pick his cabinet. A lot of people don't like Musk.

Nobody likes Musk. Right. People think, "Okay, government is too fat. I kind of like it. Kind of tickles some of my sensors." They're feeling some of the pain of the private sector. It feels as if the narrative has turned just in the last 48 hours, where all of a sudden Trump and Doge are on their heels and people, including Republicans that voted for Trump, are pissed off.

They're like, we wanted more efficiency. We wanted leadership. We did not want this type of kind of heartless recklessness. This does not appear to make any sense. And I think with Musk, I think the straw that's going to break the camel's back here is when people start canceling contracts at Starlink and

And he says, wow, I'm actually losing money doing this. And I think that is about to happen. I think he is a brilliant guy, but it's all about money. The math is going to show that he is better off pulling a Vivek Ramaswamy. And it's like fate. Remember Vivek? Vivek was the co-head of Doge. Remember him? Yeah. He's not quiet.

He is going to doge and Elon Musk are going to fade away because you can be sure he's doing the math. And he's like, even if I can get rid of all those pesky regulators, I'm still losing money here because my sales are plummeting because the general public across the US, much less Europe, when they see these idiots surrendering

to Putin and when they see the type of recklessness and they see that they're not saving any money, all they're doing is making our government less competent. You're going to see Tesla sales continue to plummet, Tesla stock continue to go down. And again, the pivotal moment here is when it starts to infect

And I think he's going to fade back to the corporate sector. Yeah, it's interesting. People like the idea of the government efficiency thing. So do you and I. Well, Clinton Gore did it. Almost every president's done it. Yeah, right. Exactly. But listen to this. This was Puck's Peter Hamby wrote a piece, not just about the polls, which you can take. The White House is saying polls show people love him and love it, which isn't true. Hamby looked at focus groups and swing voters. Who cares about the MAGA people? They're going to like no matter. He can shit on the stage. They'd like it.

Recent focus groups of swing voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Florida, they like the idea of efficiency. They hate Elon Musk. And this is something—polls, for instance, don't tell you that Musk is a weird nerd, which is how Adam, a Trump-voting hockey fan from Macomb County, described the billionaire last week.

or that he's a complete tool, as Michael from Milwaukee put it, or scary, Taisha from Toledo, or selfish, DeAndre from Milwaukee, just looking to enrich himself. Perhaps Eric, a real estate appraiser from Pittsburgh, put it most poignantly, extremely radical, scary, I just shudder that Trump has given him carte blanche.

It's really, these are the big things. Musk and Doge are treated with skepticism. They like Trump because he looked strong when Biden was weak. So it's not affecting Trump. They just don't like Musk, you know, and eventually it will affect Trump and that's when he'll act. But swing voters do not like this fella, no matter how you slice it. Anyway, we'll see. You're right. That's a great prediction.

Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week Scott spoke with David Bernad, the Emmy-winning executive producer behind HBO's White Lotus. They discussed the making of the hit series, The Shifting Landscape in Hollywood, and wait for it, Scott's surprise cameo in the next episode.

That's right. The big screen. It's about time. I'm so excited. I'm going to watch White Lotus. Tell me, Clint Eastwood, dog. I am going to download it. I'm going to Australia on Saturday, just so you know. Really? Yeah, I am. I'm going to listen to White Lotus so I can hear your voice. That's a long way someone your age. Yeah, I know. It's true. It's moving the books. Okay, let's listen to Scott. Let's listen to this interview. I was in Koh Samui. You sent me your first recordings. I listened to it.

I almost shit my pants because I was like, I don't know if this sucks. I don't know if it's going to fly. And I think I had then I heard you mention it on on I think on pivot. And so I was extra nervous that I was going to somehow disappoint you. I did not want to disappoint you.

And so I called, I think I got, maybe I was back in LA or might've been still in Thailand. And then I was like, I had the smart idea of sending Jason Isaacs over to your apartment. Just, you know, I was like, maybe Jason could help you read with you. And I remember I was like very anxious. I was like, Jason, call me as soon as you get out of there.

Jason called me and he goes, we did an hour of takes. It could be all dog shit. Maybe there's something in there. And I have to say, genuinely, you are great in the show. In that, in those hour of recordings, we found gold. I'm hoping this is the beginning of a long Hollywood career for you.

Let me just say, I came to your apartment. I go into Scott's apartment. I walk in and there is Lucius Malfoy sitting there and a guy from the asshole from the Patriot. I was like, oh my God, hello. And he was lovely. And you and he were running lines, whatever. He was in the kitchen. You were in the studio. And I was like, hello, Lucius Malfoy. What the fuck are

you doing here? He's a tall drink of lemonade. He's a handsome man. Handsome man. Yeah. So this is great. This is, this is great. I'm excited to hear you. I'm excited. So I got to add some color here. He called me and said, would you consider doing a cameo? I'm like, yes. How much will it cost me?

I mean, I'm so excited about it. - Yeah, they love Pivot, the whole White House team. - Yeah, and he, basically I did, I read my lines and I thought, oh, he's like kind of own a room, you're a lawyer giving some very bad news to someone. It's just, of course, face radio, it's just my voice.

And I thought, oh my God, I nailed it. And I sent it and they wrote back, well, we love it, but we think it can be even better. And I later found out that they were thinking about cutting it out. I was so bad. Oh God. And Jason took me into the studio and it was such a learning experience for me because he would do stuff like, I'd do a line and he'd go, no, he's like, you're scared of this dude, but you're also angry. Have you ever been scared and angry? And he's like, think about it. And I talked about it. He's like, okay, now hit it. And he's like, no, no, no, no. And then on another line, he'd be like, this dude is banged up.

in your wife and you are now really pissed off and you just found out and you're going to tell him this, hit it. And we did this back and forth where he was trying to bring out emotions in me and he'd be like, no, no, no, you're reading to an eight-year-old a comic book, be more animated, hit it.

We did this back and forth for an hour and I was practically sweating. I was so exhausted by the end of the hour and it made me walk away with such an incredible appreciation for just how fucking hard acting and directing is.

And this guy literally turned my chicken shit into what I'm hoping is chicken salad. And it was so generous of him. He's not a director. He didn't get paid to do this, but he wanted the scene to be great. He was lovely. He was lovely. And he was the guy. He's the he's the lead in the show. By the way, the part.

Parker Posey is hilarious. Oh, my God. There's a great article about her in New York Times today. I love Parker Posey so much. I'm so thrilled she's getting the recognition. She's fantastic. I think Jason owns the screen whenever he's on it, but obviously I'm a little bit biased. But he was so...

it just gave me an appreciation. You think acting is like they're really good looking and just act like themselves. That is hard. That was one of the hardest hours I have ever spent. You were a little bit shook up, but you loved it. Let me just say he still is handsome and has a great head of hair. Scott, I'm excited to hear you. I'm going to listen to White Lotus because of you. While we're at it, let's put this question on threads. Which one of us

would survive an entire season at the White Lotus and who would get killed off, Scott or Cara? You don't even need to put that question out. It's going to be 90-10. It's going to be you auto-asphyxiating. That's really where it's happening. It's going to be you doing the David Carradine out in Thailand. That's what's going to... Anyway, just weigh in if you could think of something. By the way, we're

killing it on YouTube. We're growing like crazy and I'm very excited. We're all over the place. So visit us at Pivot Podcast, official to answer. Scott, before we go, this just came over the wires. Katy Perry, Gayle King, and Lauren Sanchez are going to space on the next launch from Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos' rocket company. It's not really a mission. They're calling it a mission, but they're going to join three other women as the crew set to launch in the spring. Just so you

I thought it would give you a chance. It's the 11th crude flight of the New Shepard rocket. No, no, no. I wish them the breast of luck. I mean, I wish them...

Okay, all right. If there's an explosion in the capsule, we got to be quick to judge. Oh, I knew you would do this. That's okay. I allowed it. I allow it. I allow it. Anyway, good luck. Godspeed. I'm a fan of fake breasts, and I have found so far that they taste real. Okay.

And Godspeed. That's why the people come here, Cara. Godspeed, ladies. That's why they come here. Godspeed. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Corinne Roth.

Ernie and Tad entered in this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Saverio, and Dan Shulon. Nishat Kuro has Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

All right, Sean, you can do this promo talking about all the great Vox Media podcasts that are going to be on stage live at South by Southwest this March. You just need a big idea to get people's attention, to help them, you know, keep them from hitting the skip button. I don't know. I'm going to throw it out to the group chat. Kara?

Do you have any ideas? In these challenging times, we're a group of mighty hosts who have banded together to fight disinformation by speaking truth to power, like the Avengers, but with more spandex. What do you think, Scott? I'm more of an X-Man fan myself. Call me Professor... Can I read minds? I can't really read minds, but I can empathize with anyone having a midlife crisis, which is essentially any tech leader. So...

Minds are important, Scott, but we're more than that. I think that you can't really separate minds from feelings. And we need to talk about our emotions and explore the layers of our relationships with our partners, coworkers, our families, neighbors, and our adjacent communities. I just want to add a touch more. From sports and culture to tech and politics, Vox Media has an all-star lineup of podcasts that's great in your feeds, but even better live.

That's it. All-stars. Get your game on. Go play. Come see a bunch of Vox Media All-stars and also me at South by Southwest on the Vox Media podcast stage presented by Smartsheet and Intuit. March 8th through 10th in Austin, Texas. Go to voxmedia.com slash SXSW. You'll never know if you don't go. You'll never shine if you don't glow.