House Of The Dragon: Ep. 3 “Second of His Name”
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My obsession killed Rhaenyra's mother. Viserys. I thought Rhaenyra was the way out of my abyss of grief and regret. That naming her heir would begin to set things right. Oh, it did. I never imagined I would remarry. What if I was wrong?

Uh, Your Grace, let's, why don't we take a walk around the block a little bit? Maybe a couple cups of coffee? What do you say? Push the wine back? I was kind of disappointed by the lack of s'mores in this episode. You know, like there were a lot of campfires. There were not enough marshmallows. You could put one on that huge spear that Jason gave to the king. Oh my God, you could cook like a dozen s'mores on there. Yeah, that's better than...

Not really killing the part with it. I mean, he did it eventually. He got it in. It's a gimme. It's a big gimme, but we're going to give it to him. Yeah, yeah. I mean, anything to sober the guy up. Yeah.

Welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon. I'm Jason Concepcion, host of the podcast X-Ray Vision from Crooked Media. And I am Greta Johnson, host of WBEZ's Nerd Out podcast. And this is a Game of Thrones podcast for everyone, whether you are an OG Thrones nerd or you have just started your journey into Westeros with the HBO original series, House of the Dragon.

Before we get into this episode, we should remark on the news that House of the Dragon has been confirmed for a season two. It's been picked up. The story will continue. Are you excited? I am excited. When I saw 10 million viewers for the premiere episode, I had a suspicion that it would get picked up, but I think it's nice to have that confirmed. Yeah, totally. Seems like a solid bet at this point. Great.

Greta, we just watched episode 103, second of his name. Yes, I mean, we are at least knee deep at this point, Jason. A lot is happening with this story. More than two years have already passed, which kind of blew my mind, but I was thrilled by it. I was like, oh, that six months last time around, that's nothing. We are deep in those pig guts right now. This was a big episode for our princess, Greta.

And just our luck, our young princess Rhaenyra, played by the really amazing Millie Alcock, will be joining us for this episode. Yeah, it was kind of a big bummer of an episode for Rhaenyra, but I'm very excited to talk to Millie. I think it's going to be really fun. But first, Jason, what surprised you most in this episode, do you think?

Just how miserable everyone is. Literally everybody. Yeah, that's a good point. I think probably the passage of time was what surprised me the most, just because I knew that we were going to have some jumps, but two years just like that, and no, I thought it worked. It flowed really well still, so I'm super excited to get into it. Jason, you want to hit him with a recap? Let's do it.

It's three years later, and on the Stepstones, Daemon and Corlys' war is going poorly, despite their dragon advantage. In King's Landing, King Viserys and Queen Alicent order Rhaenyra, who's apparently peeved that her best friend married her dad, weird, to accompany them on the hunt, celebrating Prince Aegon's second name day. The king is under pressure. Like the worst episode of Shark Tank ever, people are pitching Viserys nonstop on marriage deals for Rhaenyra.

Viserys responds by getting really, really drunk. Rhaenyra runs off to the woods. Criston Cole does his duty and follows her. And later that night, they stab a pig to death. The hunt is on the lookout for a fabled white heart, a symbol of royalty from the time before the conquest. But they find a regular tan colored one instead. And Viserys is too hungover to kill it cleanly. Later, Alicent convinces Viserys to send reinforcements to the Stepstones.

but Daemon and Corlys end up not needing them after Daemon lures the crab feeder's forces out of their crab holes for a surprise crab roast courtesy of Laenor Velaryon's dragon, Seasmoke. Victory!

Man, Jason, I kind of don't even know where to start with this episode, but I guess we can just, you know, do a maybe obvious thing and start with the beginning. We started with gore again, which has been kind of the trend over the last couple of episodes. We see that the crab feeder literally is feeding crabs. Crabs are eaten. Nobody really else. Nobody else is. You know, watching this episode, I was struck by the fact that the kind of theme of this was just how badly everyone's plans are going. Yeah.

Yeah. Everything sucks for everybody. Corliss and Damon ran off to go for this like easy mode mission against the crab feeder on the Stepstones. Now it's two years later. They're mired there. Yeah. And Damon is out here just being like, come fight me, Drehar. I don't know. Come out. What about that? What about if you just come and fight me? Put it at no, no takers on that one.

Yeah, this episode is wild. There's just so much that happens. I mean, I think probably the character I found most compelling in this episode was Alicent because I feel like she I mean, so much has happened to her in the last two years. And we really see where her she's kind of being pushed and pulled in different ways, which I thought was really fascinating. I would love to talk more about that. But yeah, I mean, there's a Prince Agon now like what the fuck that happened real quick.

You know, the allicent of it all is really interesting. Clearly, she is feeling her authority and has a comfort level with it that I think is surprising considering how unsure she was in episodes past and years back, you know. But also thinking about those plans that have gone astray, she has achieved exactly what her father set out for her. Right. And the cost is...

is her friendship with her good friend Rhaenyra. Yeah. And then the fact that her dad is still pushing her to be like, hey, you got to get the king to change. You got to get him to name Aegon. You got to do it. You got to do it. You got to do it. Meanwhile, the king is...

Yeah, I think... I mean, well, and there are a couple of really interesting scenes with Alison where you can tell she's really trying to become friends with Rhaenyra again. She's trying to connect. And I totally get why Rhaenyra wouldn't be into it, but it was really fascinating, kind of heartbreaking to watch because she's in this impossible position, you know, where...

Like, she couldn't say no to the king who wanted to marry her, right? And now here she is. She's given birth to a son. She's extremely pregnant again. But, I mean, at least based on that one scene where Viserys is super drunk standing by the fire, it sounds like she still supports Rhaenyra being heir, which I also found really fascinating. I did, too. You know, that scene in the Godswood was such a great callback to the scene from episode one where it's like you can really just mark how much things have changed. Right.

Ugh, the emotional distance. First of all, Rhaenyra is, instead of ignoring her studies, just studying hard, getting ready for the day that hopefully she will be able to take the reins of power. And then there's this new pecking order where Alicent is able to tell... She calls rank. Yeah, she pulls rank. She's able to tell the minstrel, hey, get out of here. You may go, Samwell. You are to stay if I order the princess.

The Queen commands you to leave the Godswood at once.

That was really, really impactful. Wow. It was. I feel like Rhaenyra also just did some excellent sulking in this episode. Like, she is just, like, peak 17 years old, you know? A little too much sulking, no? I mean, I get it. You would think after the incredible bloodless victory on Dragonstone where she saved the egg, got Daemon to stand down, and nobody died, right?

would have really bolstered and underlined her authority. Look at the people that were there that witnessed it, right? It was like Otto Hightower was there. He saw it. Damon was there. He saw it. All of Damon's City Watch soldiers were there. Harold Westerling, important and influential Kingsguard member, was there, saw it. And yet here she is having to prove herself again and again and again and is clearly...

frustrated by that. Oh, God. And she has every right to be. Do you think... I mean, one of my favorite scenes was after she kills that boar and she goes back into the hunting camp and she's just like, you know, she's covered in blood. And there's this really interesting juxtaposition of Alicent with Prince Aegon, like, being this nurturer and Rhaenyra just sort of, like, stomping in after having stomped out and killed this creature in the woods. Like, do you think...

It seemed to me that that moment was intended to sort of like lend some more credibility to her as a strong, independent agent of her own will. I think that you're right to a certain extent. I think that

that maybe she thinks of it that way. I mean, very clearly, she decided not to wash up before walking into camp, had the idea, like, this probably looks pretty good, right? Covered in blood. Right, right. At the same time, you know, looking at it, okay, you killed a pig, great. Nobody saw you do it except for your Kingsguard member who's going to say that you were amazing killing the pig. I mean, she was amazing killing the pig.

She was. She really stabbed that pig. She stuck that pig up. Oh, my God. She got him. She's got a lot of pent up aggression. Oh, does she? But again, like one witness, Kingsguard member, nobody saw it. Yeah, true. You'd think that the Dragonstone triumph would matter more with all those influential people there to see it and talk about it. I think a lot of what's frustrating to Rhaenyra is that

It's a process, right? She is fighting against the internalized misogyny of the realm. And it's like she can never slack. She can never miss. There's never going to be the aha moment where they're like, OK, now we accept. She just has to keep proving it. And it's like, when can she stop proving it?

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I don't know. I mean, I will say also, like, just before she storms out on the horse, like that very public fight she gets in with Viserys. But you've refused me at every turn. That is because I do not wish to get married. Even I do not exist above tradition and duty, Rhaenyra. Excuse me, Your Grace.

I mean, it wasn't a good look for either of them, really. You know, it's like, really, y'all are just going to start arguing with each other in front of all these people? Like, now is not the time for this conversation. It wasn't. There's a moment with Kira Redwine earlier than that, where Kira Redwine, you know, the ladies of the court are like, oh, you know. Yes, God. Damon's really bogged down over there. What's happening? And then this looks like a terrible situation. And then Kira kind of snidely is like...

oh, Rhaenyra, you know, what's going on with your uncle? And she has to be like, I haven't, first of all, I haven't talked to him. And second of all, like, what are you doing eating cake? That to me is,

was a really interesting potential miscalculation from Rhaenyra because, you know, Corlys Velaryon's fleet made up the bulk of the ships in the royal fleet. They're gone now. They're out there fighting on the stepstones. So the Redwyne fleet is actually one of the biggest family fleets currently still serving the realm. So,

To insult that family and say, well, what are you guys doing? Feels is like actually a lot. And this all goes back to the point. It's like we're expecting so much of Rhaenyra. She can never lose her cool. She can never just snap at someone. Yeah, it's true. Everybody's just going to agree with this kind of preconceived notions that they have about her.

Someone else we meet right around that time who I thought was a very interesting character who I'm sure we haven't seen the last of is someone who shares your name, actually, Jason Lannister. Lord Jason Lannister. Gathered that from all the lions. I don't think we've been properly introduced.

Man, that guy is feeling himself. Let's talk about like mislaid plans. This guy goes in and his plan is, I'm going to marry the princess. He goes in hot. How's this for a metaphor? I'm going to make a spear for her father. And then I'm going to give it to him. And then I'm going to say, guess what? I want to marry your daughter.

Then I'm going to say, don't you want to add my strength? Because I'm not saying you're weak, but you're kind of weak. Yeah. At which point it becomes like the House of the Dragon version of like that Goodfellas scene where Joe Pesci is like, I'm funny. I'm weak. How? You know, you know, just the way you name the air. You know, I'm just saying you're funny. You know, you're funny. Yeah.

Well, and Viserys, I mean, I will say he had some of the best bitchy smiles in that one scene. Oh my God, it's so good.

It was so much fun to see him, like, you know, he's not smizing. He is just, like, pissed and showing it. But, I mean, you know, that's another instance where he, like, fairly publicly is saying, like, are y'all defying my orders that Rhaenyra is heir? Like, he really is. He doubles down on that several times through the episode. He also expresses some doubt. Why must every effort on your behalf be resisted as if to the death? Because you mean to replace me. I did waver.

At one time. But I swear to you now, on your mother's memory, you will not be supplanted.

You want to talk about the most devastating version of a plan that has gone astray. Here's a person who had a dream that he believed in more than anything. Yeah. I had this prophetic dream, my son sitting on the Iron Throne with the crown on. That dream led his wife to her death. And now that he has achieved it, right? He's got the heir, Rhaenyra. He's got the wife. He's got the son. And

And now everybody won't leave him the fuck alone. It's like they're still wanting things from him, asking things of him. Rhaenyra refuses to even think about getting married.

And he's turned to drink. It's a really sad place to see the king in this isolated, not knowing where to turn. Even Otto, you know, Otto steps to him and is like, hey, so I got a pitch. Marry your two-year-old son to your daughter. What do you think? The Targaryens used to do this. Are you into it?

Yeah, that was wild. I don't know. I mean, it's interesting that you say that people never leave him alone because it's true, but he's also always alone. Like, it's also very clear that there's pretty much no one on whom he can really rely at this point or trust. And he seems also, especially in this episode, like, so easily persuadable, which is also, I think...

troubling just because I feel like you can see some of the like foundation of him as a good leader just crumbling more and more with every episode yeah you know what's interesting there's the moment where Lionel Strong steps to the king right multiple marriage pitches have hit the king now the king is shit-faced and immediately when Lionel's like I have something if you want to hear it and immediately the king it's back to your your bitchy smile he just says oh oh oh oh

Oh, let me guess. Your son, Breakbones, should marry Rhaenyra. That's what we should do. And interestingly, Lionel, I think, really earns significant trust from the king by saying, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that actually seems like a good idea. Yeah, no. Remember that advice I gave you three years ago?

to, you know, unite your house to House Valerian. Let's do the same thing. You marry. Here's a chance. Yeah, here's your chance. Marry Rhaenyra to Laenor. What about that?

And then King Viserys gives him a little clap on the shoulder, like, thank you for pitching me something that doesn't directly benefit you. Because Viserys is not stupid. He realized that everybody is playing him. Yeah. You know, what was the line Viserys used when he said he was really hungover? How are you feeling, husband? The gods have punished me. Oh, I need to use that next time. I'm feeling a little rough the next day. It was so good. So that scene...

Otto goes to see his daughter. They're back from the hunt. They're back from the hunt, right? He goes to see Alison. He realizes that his, you know, earlier in the episode, Otto's brother Hobart was like, I thought you were hand of the king. Can't you get him to name Aegon the heir? Like, why don't you push this guy? And now Otto, feeling under pressure, goes to the queen, his daughter, and is like, The road ahead is uncertain, but the end is clear. Aegon will be king.

You must guide Viserys towards reason. He'll never find it on his own. And what happens? Alicent goes in there, king's hungover, and instead of getting that conversation, who's your heir, what happens is she convinces the king that,

to do the thing that Otto was like, no, no, no, don't do that. It'll make us look weak, which is send aid to Dragonstone. A completely, like, 90-degree diversion from the thing that Otto has been trying to get to happen for now two years at least. Yeah, speaking of plans gone awry, it seemed like really actually good advice, though. Like, it's, you know, we talked to Emily about this. Like, I think partly what's so great about how she plays Alicent is that

you never totally know what her motivations are in any given moment. And I think that really stands out in this scene because...

It's unclear whether she's like trying to clearly defy her father or just legitimately has some pretty good advice because she's been hanging out in court for her entire life and has been married to the king for the last two years and like has a sense of what should probably happen, you know? I think you're 100% right. It struck me that what she did in that moment was decide...

why don't we do something that's actually good for the realm? Yes. You know, why don't, like, I understand, like, there's a lot of ego involved and it's not the best look to send help, but shouldn't we just do it? Then I pose a simpler question. Is it better for the realm if the crab feeder thrives?

Or is vanquished. Like, what's actually the best thing to have happen here? And you're absolutely right. That was great, great advice. And some of the only selfless advice, you know, joining Lionel Strong that we see in this episode. Mm-hmm.

So this is something we've kind of talked around the last couple of episodes, but given the fact that in this episode, towards the end of it, Viserys actually says to Rhaenyra, like, something along the lines of, like, I'm not long for this world. I think we should talk about the fact that a lot of seeds have been planted that imply that Viserys is not long for this world. Yeah.

Because I think it's really fascinating. And I think, you know, I think especially that scene with him trying to kill the deer is a really good example of how much everybody's kind of trying to set him up to succeed and how even under those circumstances, it's not that easy. Yeah, it's an interesting conundrum because I think Alicent, Rhaenyra, the king, the primary people who can make some of these big decisions, our top three, right, are kind of...

Otto is right in a certain way. Everybody is ignoring the reality that a significant portion of the realm is not going to support Rhaenyra. That's a fact. Right. If we can accept that that's a fact, then maybe we can do something about it. But we have to accept that as a fact. And no one is, you know, our power players, our decision makers are not at that place. King Viserys thinks he can just kind of roll over it. And to your point,

is not looking. He's already, his fingers already fallen off. Great, man. He's got these sores on his back. It's not going great. He can't kill a deer that is like tied up and injured already, presumably, right? It's tied up. They're holding it down. A guy has to come up and be like, hey, hit it, hit it right here. One more time. Yeah, just stab him right there. Yeah, man. And the king can't, not to mention,

is shit-faced all the time and it's a terrible look. So there is a reckoning coming and it's upsetting that no one who can really do the right thing about it can see it or is willing to accept. Even Rhaenyra, who like this directly pertains to her and her ability to rule and the potential for her to rule.

is just kind of sulking about it and running off into the forest. Like, I get it. You looked good coming back in drenched in blood. But did running out of the camp look like the ruler that everybody wants? You know? Yeah, that was a pretty petulant move for sure. So I don't know. Like, I think a post-Viserys reality is looking pretty scary right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, there was a lot of wildlife content in this episode. We talked about the deer that King Viserys was set up to kill. I want to talk about the White Heart because there was a lot of conversation around that. Obviously, it was very symbolic for a number of reasons and kind of, like, harkens back to, you know, old Westeros lore as well. But I'm curious what you thought of that scene where Rhaenyra comes across this kind of fabled creature and, you know, Ser Criston, like, gets ready to kill it and she's like...

I thought that was a really interesting one to include in this episode. Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of ways to read it, right? I guess one way to read it is it's fucking symbolism. Who gives a shit? Like, it's a deer. And then the second way to look at it is no easy wins for Otto Hightower and Aegon.

the white heart, you know, as we heard the huntsman say, as we heard Otto say, is a symbol of kingly power before the arrival of Aegon the Conqueror and for that animal to be killed and dragged into the royal camp on Aegon, Prince Aegon's birthday would be a symbol that people would potentially rally around to say, hey, maybe Aegon

Maybe Egon should be king. But then, on the other hand, is it a statement on her lack of ruthlessness? Oh, interesting. You could also call that compassion, Jason. Well, that's what I mean. Like, again, it's a fucking deer, folks. Like, you know. I mean, it's a beautiful creature. What do you make of it? I don't know. I thought it was a really interesting scene to include because it could have not existed at all. And, you know, like, it wasn't necessary, but I kind of liked it in there because...

I don't know. I thought it was an interesting moment. I mean, we definitely get some bonding between her and Sir Kristen in this episode, you know, since he's the one who chases after her and hangs out not eating s'mores by the campfire. But the fact that, you know, he's ready to go for it, because imagine...

You know, how different would that scene have been if she hadn't come back covered in blood with a pig, but she had come back covered in blood with the thing that everyone was going after. And the fact that she decided not to, I think, speaks to a lot of what Viserys is talking about in this episode with, like, how contrarian she is, which I really respect, but I'm not sure how much everybody else does, you know? Like, I'm not sure it's actually to her favor. It's a great point. I mean, it's part of the political game, right? On the one hand, it's a deer. It doesn't matter. On the other hand...

It's the deer everybody's talking about. Exactly. You also have to accept the reality that people care about this stupid thing and that it would look pretty great if you walked into camp with it. Is it stupid? Yes, it's dumb. But people believe in this. Right.

And she's opting out of playing that game. She's opting out pretty big. And Otto has always cared about this. He has always had his antenna up for things that could potentially make Viserys look weak. Don't let anybody know about the sores. Cover up the finger that fell off. Nobody can know about this. The look on his face when the Huntsmaster is describing the lore of the heart, he is like, oh, your grace, we're going to get it. Ha ha ha!

Your Grace, this is it. We're going to get... He looked so thrilled. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Totally. Totally. So speaking of patriarchy and Rhaenyra and dynamics between her and Viserys, obviously things are extremely fraught at this point in their relationship. He really wants her to get married. I thought it was really interesting that by the end of this episode, he tells her like... I wish to see you contented. Happy even.

That's to your match. Make it yourself. Find one that pleases you. That actually got me. That got me in the old heartstrings. Oh, yeah? It did, because, you know, this is a king who is lurching around for any kind of connection to anyone, right?

That is not based on someone trying to get something from him. Right. And here is the king offering in return for the hope of like a renewed relationship with his daughter who he loves and has supported to the detriment of his reign. Right.

Here he is offering her that very bit of generosity. Marry whoever you want. I'm not going to get involved. Fall in love with somebody and marry him. That's a big effing deal in this world where these kind of marriage contracts are important. And you know what? Raniera makes a great point before this where she's like, listen, if it was all politics to you, you would have married Leanna Valerian.

Right, right. Yeah, she kind of calls him out on that. And he's like, you know what? You're right. So that was really that was a huge moment for me. And I thought a really important and honest moment to say, I support you. I support your ascension to the hilt. Yes, I questioned it. I did. But I swear on your mother's memory that I will support you. Now, what will that support mean when he has passed from this mortal coil?

Probably not much, or the show would be over real soon. We do have a number of episodes to go. But I thought that was really affecting. What did you think about it? I thought it was really fascinating. I mean, even just based on the pressure that was put on Viserys to remarry, the fact that they had that conversation literally right after the death of his own wife about who he's going to marry next...

And how much pressure was built up over the course of this episode. You know, you have Viserys being like, oh, Rhaenyra, you're going to have a child of your own someday. And then, you know, Lannister dude comes in and there's just so many... It seems like there's a lot of pressure on this specific part of their relationship. And the fact that by the end he's like, you know what? I think you should do what you want. I think is really interesting. And I think, I don't know, I would like to give him some credit for Solid Parenting where he's like,

she's gonna do whatever she wants anyway this has been made very clear over the course of the last two and a half years that we've gotten to know these characters already so might as well let her go for it you know

Another bit of really, really solid advice from Alison Hightower, who said, I told you. I told you if you tried to marry her off without consulting her to someone that she's not interested in, she's going to react this way. And she was 100% right. So like big, big wins for Alison in this episode. It's going to be really sad what is getting set up to happen here. You know what I mean? Because...

Alicent is really trying and she doesn't have to. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, totally. Yeah. No, she's consistently reaching out to Rhaenyra. She's denying her son's inherent right to the throne. Yes. She could grab it. She could be like, yeah, this is my son. Let's lock this thing down. Let's avoid war. She could do it, but she is fighting that. And I think that's really a credit to her.

Yeah, it's really going to be fascinating to see how that plays out. So the other big thing from this episode that we need to talk about is our battle scene, because it was kind of our first, like, big-ass, like, carnage. Speaking of death counts, oh my God. Big time. Is there anything before the battle that we missed that you want to talk about before we jump in? Well, I got to talk about this Council of War scene. Because you want to talk about plans that are effed up.

Corlys Velaryon is like, we have 16, perhaps 18 seaworthy ships. And in the background, you could see one of his ships get absolutely railed by a flaming trebuchet bolt. It's like, okay, minus one at this point. It's like, Corlys...

Strike that. We've got 15. It's like days since an accident, like the sign on the factory floor. Yeah. And it's like, you know, everybody's staring like, you know, a lot of these are paid soldiers who are like, I don't know, is the paycheck worth all this? So that is what struck me. The absolute comedy of Corliss giving a head count while his ships are getting rocked right there, like three miles away.

Oh, my God. That was really good. Well, I don't know. It's funny because my notes at this point of the episode are like...

His son is hot. The dragons can't get into the caves. Damon gets a letter from Viserys. And then I just wrote in all caps, chaos, chaos, chaos. Oh, big time chaos. It's like that moment when Damon like beats the shit out of the messenger. Yeah, he realizes at that moment that his bid to do something really cool without his brother's help. Yes. The window on that is closing. Yep. This is it.

Is there some kind of saying about something with a messenger? Don't do something to them. I feel that. It's not don't beat the shit out of the messenger with your cool helmet, right? Right. You're right. It's definitely not that. I take it back. That was fine. That was absolutely appropriate behavior from David Targaryen. I mean, I imagine there's no like UN commission in Westeros or whatever, but the fact that he's like fake, like,

giving up, you know, is he's showing up with the white flag, which is a hell of a move. I wonder, you know, with so many time jumps, if people, you know, that big small council scene where, you know, Viserys orders the aid and you hear the big voiceover, I'm ordering you the aid. I'm coming to help. You know, I don't want you to lose. You're my brother. I'm coming to help. I love you, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you, man. Yeah. And do his fake surrender. Yeah.

And I do wonder if people, it seemed pretty clear to me that this was, this happened right after that council of war. Daemon gets the message and then is like, well, I got to do this right now then. I have to do this because otherwise it's going to seem like Viserys won this war and that's not okay. Yeah. And Laenor had that crazy plan where we send one person in that lures everybody out. And you know what? I guess I got to, I'll do it. Who's crazy enough? Well, and they do set it up kind of perfectly, right? They're like, who on earth could we get to be that person? And Daemon's like...

Put me in, coach. Put me in, coach. But I just want to make it clear that the aid is not going to play a role in that pivotal battle, which is the dissolution of all the crab feeders. Well, entrenched plans. My guy, very tough look for the crab feeder who turns into half a crab. It's very true. Yeah. I mean, it definitely seems like that whole situation was Damon saying, fuck you to the aid. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you to the aid. P.S. We've got another dragon. Yes.

You know, something that I found myself thinking about watching that scene with the dragon, which was awesome, is that it's funny because I, you know, especially having watched Game of Thrones and the way Daenerys used the dragons, it was like a dragon meant you automatically won whatever it was. Right. But it was really interesting watching that scene because it also became, maybe this seems obvious, but also like Dragonfire isn't hella discriminating. It is not. You know, like it doesn't,

necessarily mean absolute victory as much as it definitely means absolute carnage of whoever's in the way. Oh, absolutely. I think you're right. There is this perception that dragons are like the nukes of Westeros, that you have them and immediately you're probably going to win. That said, as we've said in previous episodes...

Dorne is not conquered yet. And Dorne is not conquered yet because they were able to hold out using very similar tactics to what the crab feeder is using, which is when the dragons show up, you hide. You hunker down. And then when the dragons fly away, you come back and you do stuff. Yeah. And then you hide again. And then you just keep doing that. And eventually the dragons get tired. And, you know, pretty effective strategy. And I think

part of the reason why Corlys has been so alarmed, as we've said in the past, the Stepstones are part of this shattered arm of Dorne that used to connect Westeros to Essos. So, you know, if you're looking at the map, you're thinking, what happens if this belligerent triarchy links up with this portion of Westeros that we have never conquered that has resisted the power of Dragos for over a century? That is scary and concerning. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that was really our first big battle scene, though, that we've seen so far this... Oh, it's exciting, huh? It was super exciting, yeah. And I think, you know, we talked a lot about weakness and the perception of weakness, and I think...

what this battle scene showed us is for all the wild card aspects to Daemon and having Daemon in King's Landing and having him close and all the kind of peril that he seemed to be aiming at the king. Actually, the only person that Daemon listened to even a little bit was the king.

And the one thing that Damon did while close to the king is keep all of the kind of people that are vying for power on edge because Damon is a badass.

Badass, as we saw. I mean, he. Oh, my God. When we get to our death count, we'll figure it out. But he soloed like 20 guys. Yeah, no. Yeah. Plus the crab feeder. You know, the running like somersault, like stab moves like that was cool. And that is a thing that, you know, Otto Hightower and the rest did.

don't want around King's Landing because, oh shit, if that guy's protecting the king, then I got to really watch my step. And I think King Viserys at this point, again, for all the trouble that Daemon brought, it's better to have him close, isn't it? I think it's better to have him around. Well, yeah. So, you know, keep your friends close and your enemies closer, especially if they're kind of completely unhinged, I think makes a lot of sense, you know?

One thing I wanted to note, you know, we talked about all these effed up plans. Leandor's crazy plan worked. And there's a guy having a good time, huh? On the back of a dragon? He's out there like, yeah! I got it!

Well, and he's the one who, what's his face proposed, said should marry Rhaenyra, which does seem like kind of an interesting match to me. It does seem like one of those, why did nobody talk about this before? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yes. They're roughly the same age, you know, so that we're good looking.

kid yeah from a good family kid yeah super rich siblings but still close enough not like jason lannister who's clearly a lot older and is just like throwing his money around like he's out here fighting is a seasoned warrior has a dragon why has nobody mentioned this kid before you know one thing i wanted to mention about jason lannister is i thought he had like a very sardonic delivery that reminded me a lot of peter dinklage did you pick up on that too

He did, like a greasier, oilier Tyrion Lannister, yeah. Yeah, I thought it was fun. It was like, oh yeah, like he is exuding Lannister vibes very effectively, which I thought was just kind of satisfying as a Thrones watcher, you know? Yeah, for our Thrones watchers, of course, they're going to remember that the Lannisters were the richest, by the time of Game of Thrones, are the richest house in the realm. Currently, it's the Valyrians. A Lannister always pays his debts, yeah. Always. Always.

And the Valerians, of course, as Corlys told us, became rich because Corlys sailed around and got a bunch of goods to bring back and sell. So how does House Lannister overtake House Valerian? Because as Jason, you know, we heard Jason talk about the rock. Other Jason. Other Jason, not me. We heard Jason talk about Casterly Rock. Right. And what an amazing castle it is. Here's the great thing about Casterly. Yes, it's three times taller than the wall. So you have these fantastic views everywhere.

of the sunset sea. Amazing. Beautiful. That sounds great. Yes, it's located right there on the coast so you have access to all the kind of west coast trading routes. That's great. Here's the other thing. It's literally a gold mine. That's where... That's why they're rich. Their house...

Is a gold mine. That's great. An active gold mine. It's like, hey, we need more money. Send someone down to the basement with a pickaxe and just go get more. Like that's why they are so rich. Another fun fact that I think speaks to the way, you know, legends play a role in the kind of lore of Westeros is land. The clever was like thought of as like the first Lannister. Yeah.

So Casterly Rock used to belong to the Casterlys. Sure, that would make sense. The way Land the Clever got it was basically to trick them out of it. And there's a lot of different legends about how he did that.

One says that he snuck in through some secret way and then was like pretending to be a ghost and, you know, whispering things into the castles ears. Eventually they're like, oh, our entire goldmine house is so scary that we have to leave. You know, but essentially he tricked them out of it, which tells you a little something about the ethos. It does. Of the Lannisters that continues to this day. Do not trust them. Watch out for them. Yeah. Well, they're too shiny, you know.

Too shiny. Too many lions. Too much gold. Yeah. Don't trust these guys. We call that fool's gold where I come from.

Another interesting thing I think worth taking note of, we see Laris Strong, who they call the club foot, not to his face. Right, yes. He comes in saying, oh, you know, the hunt is too active for me. Obviously, in my state, I can't take part in this. Let me sit here where the very, very sensitive conversations are going on. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Keep an eye on that because I think that guy is playing weirdo.

weaker than he is. Interesting. He's playing it up. That's kind of fun. I like that. Yeah. One thing that I thought was really interesting about that banquet scene in general is that it made me realize how little we're seeing big groups of people gossiping like that. We got a little bit of it at the tourney in the first episode. Yeah. But otherwise, so far, these episodes really have been just kind of a couple people at once talking to each other. And I don't know, it's really fun to see sort of like the sprinkling of gossip and trying to figure out like, okay, what does this mean to

What does this portend? I think it's kind of fun to figure out. I really enjoy that as well because it gives you an idea of like the political, cultural texture of the realm. And it also just really underlines the ongoing and increasing isolation of Viserys who sits there watching all this merriment, his wife holding his child pregnant with his second child and everybody's smiling and looking around and he's just on his throne, just bottoms up.

Yeah, that was a big-ass wine jug, too. Big wine jug. Somebody's got to stop the king at some point, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, there is a lot more to come, as they would say, which I'm pretty excited about. Should we get to our death count? Is it time? Yeah, let's do it. What do we got? How did you count that?

It surely scores of... I mean, that first dragon blast wipes out like 30 guys in a stroke. Seasmoke is also like just murking dudes who are running on that little cliffside edge. Yeah, yeah. Well, and Damon. I mean, Damon alone got probably, what, at least a dozen dudes on his way toward the crab feeder. Yeah, so let's call it scores. I like scores. It's just vague enough that it really...

It can be accurate in this context. And by the way, RIP to Kragas Drehar. He tried it and it didn't turn out great for him. In the end, he turned into half a guy. Yeah. But a good run for Kragas Drehar through these first three episodes. Yeah, that's very true. And RIP to one deer and one boar. RIP. We never knew you, boar. I think we knew that boar a little too well, frankly. Yeah.

Okay, next up, we are going to listen to an interview we did with Millie Alcock, who plays young Princess Rhaenyra. We've seen Millie in Janet King, in Reckoning, in Upright, but now, of course, you know her as young Rhaenyra Targaryen in the HBO original House of the Dragon. Millie, welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast. Hi. Thanks for having me. How would you describe Rhaenyra? Ooh.

Rhaenyra is interesting because the way that she behaves in the world is very counterintuitive to the way that she feels and the way that she wants to behave. So she's constantly fighting that battle. And yeah, she's a very interesting young woman who's put through the ringer and is kind of scrutinized by everyone and does some bad things, but we learn to love her. How does she want to behave? What does she want to do?

Whatever she wants. That's the point. She can't. She wants to do whatever she wants. She can't. Don't we all? Yeah. That's kind of the deal. Yeah. I would really love to talk to you about some of the relationships that Rainiera has, because even over the course of these first three episodes, I feel like they've changed a lot. Yeah.

It was really interesting last week to speak to Emily about her role as young Allison because something that really struck me, especially in that first episode with you two, I mean, obviously those two characters are super close. Like, it's almost an intimate, like a romantic relationship, I feel like, that these two teenage girls have with each other. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, they're young girls.

women and their relationship is so interesting because I think that young women especially have a certain type of fondness of each other that happens when you're about like 12 to 15, 16. You develop this like really beautiful, close relationship. And because of your lack of experience with love, lust and

And heartbreak, you inflate all of those feelings with one another. So they can't really dictate what is platonic and what is romantic. And I think that bleeds into the relationships they have with men when they're older. There's a really interesting trajectory, too, I think, from episode one to episode three, especially between two and three, because we're skipping two years now.

And, you know, the end of episode two, we see Rhaenyra's shock in that small council room when Viserys announces that he wants to marry Alicent. But that's all we know until we see the next episode, which has skipped two years. What was your process like in terms of sort of like filling in the blanks for you and where Rhaenyra is at emotionally when it comes to Alicent at that point? Who's, you know, pregnant with her second kid with Rhaenyra's father. Yeah.

Yeah, I think fundamentally the relationship had completely deteriorated. It's like you picked a side and it wasn't me and you also didn't have the balls to stand up for yourself. So she's just angry. She's angry at the world. She's angry at everyone. She's angry at her dad. She's got a lot of rage and I think that Ep 3 especially explores that rage, which is so much fun. Yeah. Yeah.

As you began the audition process for this, how much did you know about what it was? We didn't really. I mean, we signed a bunch of NDAs. It said HBO prequel show. Like it was really fucking vague. And every all of the it was just it basically had the outline for Rhaenyra, but it didn't specify anything.

She was what her relationship was like in the world. It was just like fantasy. She's a princess. She's a punk. They loved using the term punk princess, which means Emma. Which means Emma were a bit like, what does that mean? Like, what does that mean? Yeah, I feel like you could be rocking a lot more eyeliner in that case, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I push for it. Don't you worry. They're like, we didn't, they didn't have it in Westeros.

Charcoal was bad for the eye. They didn't have, you know, disinfectant wipes yet. But I didn't really know it was what it was until I was auditioning with my friend. And he was like, oh shit, this is a scene from Game of Thrones. And I was like, what? He was like, this is a scene from Game of Thrones. Ever heard of it? You idiot. I was like, sorry. I was like, sorry, dude. And it was the Arya Stark needle scene, like way back when. So what was your reaction in that moment when you're like,

When you find out that you're doing a scene from Game of Thrones at that. Oh, wait. Honestly, I was like, fuck. Well, I'm not going to get it. I was like angry. I was like, I was like, damn it. I was like, if it was just a bit less big. Yeah. So it was genuine. Just like, God damn it. Why did I put all this work? It was defeat. I was defeated. Oh,

Wow. It's fascinating how much that sort of mirrors Rhaenyra's own trajectory, you know? She's like, well, shit, man. Like, what am I supposed to do? Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk more about episode three because I think this was a really fascinating one for your character. I feel like Rhaenyra does a lot of like pretty excellent 17 year old like storming off and sulking in this episode. Yeah.

And you talked about this a little bit, but like, I'd love to hear a little more about where, especially in episode three, you think Rainier is at when it comes to wanting to prove her legitimacy as heir, but also kind of saying fuck it to the entire game.

I think she's just like fuckered the entire game. Because I think Rhaenyra wants change within the world, but I don't necessarily think that she wants the responsibility of being queen. But she wants change. And she sees the throne as an avenue for change. So she's like, if I can fucking get on that throne, things are going to be different. So yeah, she's just angry that no one listens to her. No one takes her seriously. She's just used as a prop for everybody else's political chess. She's a chess piece.

And it frustrates her. So yeah, there's lots of Soul King and Stormy off as a result of that. What's her relationship like with her dad, King Viserys, like by this time? She's been named heir. That's seemingly great. But at the same time, no one is happy. None of the supposed benefits of this have arisen. King Viserys is more miserable than ever. And it seems like they just don't talk. They never speak to one another. Yep.

Over it. She's over it. She's over it. And I think that's why we see her relationship develop more with Christian Cole in F3 because she's like, I have no one. No one is listening to me. My best friend's fucked my dad again. Like, it's just like, there's really no one.

You know, there's no one. So I think that she's just like, what's the point in trying to have a conversation with dad? Because I know that he's not going to listen to me or he's going to twist it into something. She doesn't want to hear what he has to say. So she's not willing to reach out as well. What are you excited about sort of like adding to the canon that exists now? You know what I mean? I mean, I think for me, even watching episode one and seeing you in it,

I found it really exciting because before this, the only teenage girl Targaryen we saw was Daenerys, who was so serious all the time. And her, you know, like the layers of trauma that she had in her backstory completely justified all of that. But partly it was so fun for me to see you in episode one being like, I just want to fly dragons and eat cake. Yeah, I think Rhaenyra has a certain...

playfulness yeah that was really fun to explore and we kind of see her allow herself to have fun as she gets older because she understands what's at stake which means that she behaves differently in certain situations but also means that she lets herself go and she doesn't have to be so serious like she learns how to read a room better within that and it was so much fun just getting to be cheeky

In addition to your English accent for this role, you had to learn some Valerian. There's some Valerian dialogue. What was that like? Actually really fun. It was just kind of like learning another song in another language, basically. I would learn the scene in English and then I would have it printed out on a sheet and

And they would have it phonetically, and then they would have an audio recording. Oh, cool. And then I would just, like, say it. So it became muscle memory. So I didn't have to think about what I was saying. It was just, like, my mouth was on autopilot, basically. Do you ever get to the end of a High Valerian dialogue chunk and maybe, you know, lose the thread and just go... Every time. It would just be, like, it would just be me, like... It was that dialect coach. Oh, oh, oh.

I would find myself saying old lines in High Valerian because my mouth would know the pattern. So if they were too similar, I would just find myself saying the wrong line because they would all start similarly. And then I would go back and then my girl would be like, Millie, that was episode two. I'd be like, oh, shit, sorry. My bad. Okay.

So something that comes up a couple times in episode one is the smell of a dragon, which Jason and I kind of like theorized about. But I would love to hear, like, do you have any ideas about what a dragon actually smells like? Okay, my theory? Yeah. Yeah. Is wet dog?

but in a salt lake. Salt lake specifically. So this dog has been in a salty lake and it's like mulling out. It's wet. It's a bit acidic. You know, it's a hot day and it's like leathery paws and nose. It's that. Hmm. Like that's what a dragon would smell like. Yeah. Wet dog. I love that. Wet dog, man. Yeah.

Do you remember what the very first scene y'all shot was? Yes, it's in the first episode, the end of the first episode. I'm in the skull room with Paddy and he's telling me something very, very important. And that was my first day. And I was shocked.

shaking. I was so scared. That's a big scene to start with. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. That is a big scene, yeah. That's what I said. I was like, guys, like, let's think about it here. It's like we're just throwing you, like, out of this airplane. Good luck. Yeah. But we got it.

First time in wardrobe. What was that like? You get the wigs, you get the wardrobe, you get the jewelry on. Did it feel real at that moment? No, it never feels real. It'll never feel real. Life isn't real, man. It's all dreams. But the first...

I didn't put the wig on for so long. I only had like two wig fittings and then I put the wig on like very late in the process. But oh, but actually what they did when I was still in Australia, like when I just got casted, they were like, oh, we need to make it. We need to do a 3D scan of your body. And I was like, what the fuck? Okay, what have I just signed up for? What have I just signed up for? And...

Dude, I went to go get this scan and it's literally like you stand there in your underwear and there's just a guy with like a gun that scans the dimension of your body and he like runs around and you just stand like that.

So they had like a styrofoam Millie in their office before they met me for like months. That's amazing. But it's more the fact that they like animate your face. That's what's so weird because you get the sketches. They'll like have the sketches up as you're doing your fittings and they'll have like an animated version of your face. And it's just not quite it ever. That uncanny valley thing. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds super creepy.

This is something Jason and I talked about in our episode three recap. Like, that scene of you going to Dragonstone. Why didn't more people start taking Rhaenyra seriously after she, like, you know, kind of went on this magical diplomatic mission and fixed everything without having carnage ensue? Well, if the person who's the biggest dog in the room has a perspective, most people will follow and suit on that perspective. Whether or not it's like, oh my god, I thought that was really...

cool and amazing we should trust this girl but it was like that's so dangerous and irresponsible there's like it's this is this is embarrassing yeah it's like she acted out she's being rebellious I mean she didn't do a very smart thing but she did something to try and prove herself and I think the ep 2 is about her ultimately trying to prove herself constantly through her actions and

Doesn't work. F3, her words. Kind of doesn't work. So I think that's why. I think it was also something that would have been not talked about. I think that they would have kept it contained. Yeah. That makes sense. This cast is huge. Many are so experienced. Are you picking up like acting stuff for your own process? And what's your own process been like as you've gone through this? Yeah, I'm picking up on so much stuff. Like this job was like the best masterclass ever.

ever and everybody is so talented and it was such a joy watching everyone because they're so good like they're just so good and i think that inherently you pick up on things and you notice things that they do but not even like very obvious things that they do but the way that they talk to other crew and each other and ask for help and how they try and redirect a scene and just listening

Do you remember the first thing that made you want to be an actor? You've been doing this now for five years, dropped out of high school to pursue acting and clearly it's worked out. What was the thing that awakened that passion for acting? Adrenaline. I discovered it and I was like, whoa, this is really nice.

I'm going to keep trying to chase that feeling. And it was a form of escape. And I was kind of an angry kid looking back. And I didn't know where to put all my feelings and put all my emotions. So as I got older, I would give the people that I was playing those feelings. It was a release to feel that. And there was something so cathartic about it for me, which is why I love it. It's like...

a really unhealthy therapy in a strange way because you're not working through your problems at all, but you're just like expressing them and you're like, oh, it's hot, guys. It's hot. What is it about Rhaenyra that you playing her found the most relatable? I think that me and Rhaenyra had very similar experiences shooting the show and her story arc in the show in itself because we're both young women who got thrusted into...

very public positions that we both didn't think would happen and trying to navigate that space and learning when to speak up, when not to speak up, trying to wrestle with that idea, self-destructing because of that idea and then ultimately overcoming those kind of thoughts and feelings and learning how to play the game of Thrones, you could say. Well, Millie, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us. Thank you for talking to me.

Really fun conversation. The fact that you can't possibly anticipate the success of this stuff and like her own personal success and just the idea of showing up to that audition and being like, well, damn it. Like, why am I even here? I just think is really charming to hear, you know? Totally. Your mind, I'm sure, can't fully grasp the reality of that. I was really fascinated by the fact that

her first scene is that huge conversation between Viserys and Rhaenyra in the dragon crypt under Balerion's skull. That's a big load-bearing emotionally scene and for that to be the first one is like whew. Yeah, that is a hell of a place to start.

Okay, that's it for this episode. Don't forget to join us again next Sunday night. We're going to discuss House of the Dragon Episode 4 with Fabian Frankel, who plays Sir Kristen Cole. And we want to hear from you. Don't forget to leave a rating and review on your podcast, Player of Choice. And you can find us on the Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon social media handles.

You can find me on Twitter at NETW3RK. And you can find me at Greta M. Johnson on Twitter and Instagram. The official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon, is produced by HBO Max in collaboration with iHeartRadio. This podcast is hosted by Jason Concepcion. And Greta Johnson. Our executive producer is Molly Socha. Our supervising producer is Nakia Swinton. Our lead sound engineer is Matt Stillo. This

This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen. Our producer is Jason Concepcion in association with Crooked Media. Special thanks to Michael Gluckstadt, Allison Cohen, Kenya Reyes, and Becky Rowe from the HBO podcast team, and Ashley Morton, Dana Froome, and Liz Keating at HBO Creative Marketing.