#578 - Ben Affleck
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He has a new film, The Accountant 2. It's in theaters this Friday with Jon Bernthal. You may have seen the first one. I had a great time getting to know him. Today's guest is Mr. Ben Affleck. I'm on the stage. Yeah, I lost my...

I wonder if you lose vanity as you get a little bit older. Like, not you, but like, do you? What does that? I don't know. I see some people like, I don't know. It's hard to tell because, you know, you see some people like.

doing crazy looking things and you think like, that looks crazy. Why are you trying to look 18 years old? You know what I mean? Oh, like the guy who's on Celebrity Big Brother right now. Who's that guy? He kind of looks like Jack Sparrow. I don't know what you're talking about, but I can imagine. You know what I mean? You kind of can like elude. I think you can go one of two ways. Like if you see yourself all the time and especially if like the way you make a living is biologically

By kind of in part the way you look or whatever, it feels like people can get obsessed with it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's kind of who I was thinking of, Mickey Rourke, I think. Yeah. No judgment against him, but he – it's like you can – it's definitely an active – yeah, some people it's like an active thing. And then you're in a real kind of like conundrum with yourself because you have to get old so then you would constantly be feeling –

like afraid to get older, I guess, or you'd be in like in a... Yeah, I think it's a tricky thing, right? Like, you know, nobody wants to get older, right? Because what it means is like you're going to die and nobody wants to really face that. And also you just find out like...

You know, you're 50, man. When you get there, you'll see like just regular shit that used to be normal hurts. Like moving around, you're like, damn, what happened to me today? You're like, why is my back hurt? Oh, because I got up and then I sat back down. You know what I mean? Yeah, I petted a small dog. Movement creates like small injuries all the time, you know? And so you start to get a little bit – that can kind of affect you. And I think if you –

I think part of it's you got to just get comfortable with the fact that, you know, and I guess I'm lucky because I don't feel like, oh, shit, I better look young. And, you know, kind of am who I am. And I'm all right with that. And also kind of what I like, what I'm interested in more and more is stuff that doesn't necessarily involve, like, how I look. Like that pressure, I think, like for women, for anybody who sees himself all the time,

It's like I think that can turn into like a vicious cycle of trying to look at shit and fix it or look younger or something. Whereas like you don't have to look any kind of way to direct movies, you know what I mean, or have a business. So I guess I'm lucky. It's hard to know if it would seem like you seem like a guy who –

likes being in Hollywood or doesn't like being in Hollywood, I guess. There's things I really like about it and things I really don't like. Yeah. Right? And I wish they didn't have to be together, but they are, right? Like, it's kind of life. You got to take the good with the bad. I don't really like to...

like do big social events or go out much. I'm kind of shy. I don't really want to be on care. Certainly when I'm like in my regular life and I'm walking around in my, you know, whatever underwear and t-shirts, I don't want people looking at me. I like my family and my kids and my life. I wish that were more private. I don't, I don't know how many people really want to,

to be sort of scrutinized in that way. But I really like making movies and I like telling those stories. And so, look, the truth is I always knew that was kind of a part of it. And so, you know, I deal with it. I don't – there's things I don't love about this business, a lot of them. You know, it can make you kind of crazy. You know, it can – and there's stuff that's just no fun for me like –

you know, events and shows and stuff like that. I don't, some people really know how to have a good time. I wish I did. I wish I was out there like, great, we're going to hit it. And I'm going to, you know what I mean? Like as if I had that attitude, I'd probably be happier about it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude, I'm always trapped inside of myself. There's always like a lot of this, like some people were like, you don't like being in a crowd. I'm like, I have a crowd inside of me right now. There's a crowd in my head. It's busy enough. 30 people in here and we're out of hors d'oeuvres. Right.

So I got enough fucking problems on the interior right now. So I can totally relate to that. And every time there is an – and then we'll get off this. I want to talk to you about directing and acting. Because, yeah, I was just like, this bit is so – because they always get pictures of you where you seem like you're like the dwarf that is kind of like the backup dwarf. You're on the side. You're smoky. What is that?

I don't know that character. Is he pissed? I think he's a little pissed. Yeah, he's an understudy. He's the understudy dwarf. Okay. And not dwarf, like you're a regular-headed guy, but it's like – and I shouldn't have said dwarf. I shouldn't say anything. But it was like – I don't know. It's like they only put this chronology out of you that makes you seem like you're kind of bummed. Well, here's the thing. If the only time –

when somebody's taking a picture of me, I'm bummed because usually I'm with my kids. I'm trying to go somewhere and then there's four guys who are like, and I'm like, hey man, every time, can you give me some time? I'm trying to be with my kids. Do you mind? You know what I mean? So the look on your face is kind of like,

And then they go away and not taking the picture. You go inside and you're having a good time. But it's this selective experience of like, take a picture of somebody every time they're feeling irritated. They're going to look irritated. Especially if you're the one irritating them. Yeah. It's like, I'll come piss you off and then take your picture and then be like, look how

That's exactly what, that's exactly what that whole system is really. Right. But, and it's like useful. Cause that's why like, you know, I'm sure you've seen on all this stuff, like the, you know, that's kind of the idea is like fall somebody around antagonize them. And then hopefully they'll have like a nervous breakdown and go crazy on you. And then your video be worth more money, you know? Yeah. It's, it's such a, it's that whole thing gets really black mirrorish, man. You know, it really gets kind of like, um,

Like I can remember a long time ago, you know, years and years ago, like I really had a lot of empathy for Britney Spears because I remember that it seemed like,

it's not somebody that I, I knew or hung out with, but I just like everybody else. You see all this shit that comes through. And I, but having had my own experiences myself, I knew like these are people are following her around in a time where she may or may not have been having difficulty. I don't know. Cause I don't know her, but I do know that the, the cycle of having people harangue you and yell at you and hassle you and follow you. It kind of seemed like that itself was kind of whipping up the whole thing into a tizzy. So it's,

Like they're not helping. Well, yeah. And they're kind of poking a stick at it and going, look, look, look at it. And that's where it felt kind of like, that's the first time I thought, this is kind of a weird kind of...

I think culturally, but kind of collective cruelty where what's taken out of the image that you see are the people around, you know, waving the stick at the tiger or poking on it or whatever. And all you see is the, the growling animal, whatever it is,

but like that, a part of that is because somebody's coming around and, you know, hitting on it or whatever to make it get active. And that's where you think, okay, well, this isn't really news. It's not even real. It's not what would be happening if this, if,

effect wasn't taking place. And that's where I thought, okay, you know, the sort of wise thing to do is to just sort of like maintain one's perspective and try to remove yourself a little bit. It doesn't, which is what I would like to do. I think there's this sense that like, if you see someone's picture all the time, they must want you to be seeing it. Right. Right.

which is not the case at all for me. I'm self-conscious. I don't really want you to be seeing that. I don't see any reason for it as an actor. It's no good for you because I don't really want people if they watch a movie to be like, that's not him. Cause I saw him yesterday at lunch and I know he's who he really is. It gets in the way of you being able to create like the illusion. It's,

Really hard work to create the illusion that this person, like the character in The Count and Two, for example, is a real person in a real circumstance. And in order to get the audience to care about it, to laugh, to find it exciting and empathize with the character, they have to suspend disbelief. That's harder if you're constantly being shown something else. So I think it gets in the way. It makes it harder to be an actor. And it's also just –

It's also not good for you. People start to resent you if they see you too much, no matter whether or not you're trying to be, so you go, no, I don't want to do this. And nonetheless, like I remember 20 years ago going through an experience where I was like,

It feels to the world like I'm trying to shove myself in their face. And nobody likes that, right? Nobody wants to be the camera hog, the guy who's trying to get a bunch of attention. Yeah, get these new Ben Affleck shoes or whatever. And I'm like, man, you can just leave me alone and I would be much happier. So in a way, it also can damage your career. Although I think it's...

I don't pretend to understand the nuances of social media and how to manage that as a celebrity, so I don't do it. Some people do it really well. And I think there is a difference now because it's like if you have 100 million followers, that's actually valuable and meaningful in a different way. I still – I'm kind of old school, I guess, in a way of seeing – I'm medium school, I think. I'm middle school. Yes, exactly. I am a seventh grader. That's true.

Oh, dude. Yeah. I don't even think, I don't know if I graduated that when someone, they let you skip, I guess if you're, you know, depending on what county you're in, they hold you back. Um, bro, the scariest thing was when like the dumb bully kid got held back and you're like, you had to stick around in your grade. And you're like, bro, I remember we got word six, 10 and like sixth grade. Dude, we got word that Damien had gotten held back and people were like, Oh hell no, dude.

We cannot do Damien again. Hold me back, too. We cannot do Damien again. Like, Damien has to go out to pasture wherever they put these kids that leave sixth grade. And they're like, Damien's coming back. Finish their education at sixth grade. Shut him down, dude. Tase him or something. You know, put a tire spike when he's leaving out of his driveway in the morning. But Damien cannot come back. Oof.

But yeah, it is interesting and it is kind of a sickness. I think a lot of people see that stuff as a sickness these days. But I do think it's fascinating about the suspension of disbelief and that that was something that used to be amazing about celebrities is like you never got to see them, right? And so you only got to see them and actors and you only got to see them on screen and in this way. And so you really envision them that way. I mean, you would almost be shocked if you saw a celebrity in person or an actor in person who didn't like –

like Indiana Jones, if he didn't have his head in whip. - It's funny, I was just gonna say that. Is that when I was a kid, I kind of thought Harrison Ford was that guy. You know what I mean? Like, that's Harrison Ford, I think he's probably the biggest movie star of my childhood. And whether it was like, you know, "Indian Jones" or "Star Wars", like he was the guy and I kind of thought he was that guy.

And so it's a little weird to see that guy just like in his sneakers and his kind of raincoat walking around Brentwood. It's sort of like – of course it's disappointing or it's disillusioning or something because you have this thing in your mind that people went to – Steven Spielberg and George Lucas went to a whole – used all their talent, went to a bunch of work to make this dude look like Indiana Jones and Han Solo. Yeah.

And I think what I've seen now is like, I actually don't even want to see like the actors that I really like. I don't want to go on your social because I don't want to know what you had for lunch because it just makes it harder for me to get into like what, you know, what you're doing. I love that. And that's, I think that is a real directorial way to think. I think, I mean, I can see that in your brain. I mean, I'm just a judge. I'm just a guy judging you. They just met in a room somewhere, but yeah,

But I never thought about that, that that's how it is. That, yeah, you don't want – you want them kind of – you want to –

Hollywood has almost bitten its own tail in that way because there's this underlying like valueless current really that's kind of like a very cheap currency. It's Hollywood sort of adjacent, which is this side of media culture that profits from and circles. And there's a symbiotic relationship between Hollywood and obviously like here I am promoting my movie and running around. And now I don't want to go on like –

a tabloid and do that or whatever it is, but that, that becomes part of that culture too. And, and then you have like any interview show or all these, and you're right in a sense, it is Hollywood because if you do a movie at universal, you know, you'll see that person's doing all NBC Comcast owned, you know, talk shows and appearances, right? Like it's not a coincidence because when they do their presentation in the boardroom for Comcast to their shareholders, they go look,

we make these movies, we spend a lot of money and then we get the stars and we plug them into all of our other shows that we also own. And there's a lot of synergy, so on and so forth. The, the idea though is like, okay, there's, that's a kind of a tax that you end up sort of,

on your sort of life and the one and on this thing that you're trying to build which is something that connects with people and moves them and that they want to go out to a fucking movie theater and pay good money to see and it makes it a little bit harder than to have to kind of go around and do all that other stuff and be like okay well that's not who I really am and that's and it

and to try to sort of be interesting and relevant in some other way that isn't really what you kind of even wanted to do. And so, so you're right. It's sort of part Hollywood and also kind of Hollywood adjacent. It is eating. It's, it does eat its tail in a way because it's because the acting in the creation, it's like a watch looking at the beauty of a lake, right? It's like, this is picturesque and this is like,

how they meant the waves to look and there's a current here and there's an inflow and outflow and something landed in the water over here and left a ripple and something else is, this is the B story and there's a ripple, but then it's this under, it's this, all this stuff under it and it's almost starting to like kind of drain its own lake in a way. It's a good metaphor. Yeah. Like the, the movie as the kind of lake and the underneath of what's both what goes into it and what happens behind the scenes and also what's,

And it's all the same thing. And it does kind of like, it's interesting. Like, yeah, if you overtax it, it lowers the lake and all of a sudden it doesn't look like a beautiful lake. It starts to look like the low country marsh and it pulls down. You start to see all the black mud around the edges and the muck. And that's, yeah, I don't know how to kind of balance that. But as a director, you know, you're right. Like I would say that's the way, the principle way I've always kind of looked at this stuff. So it used to be that you,

You had an actor and you had people knew less about them. And now a part of even casting for me is what do people think or of and expect this person to do and or be? And how can I both? I have to rely on that and use that. But I also have the opportunity to kind of subvert that in a way. And so you have to be mindful not just of the story you're telling, but

But what does the audience bring into the theater with them or when they turn on television? Wow. Dude, yeah, I think that's advanced thinking, to be honest with you. I really do. It's just learned by lived experience. Mostly, you know, find out like I even often make mistakes, you know, like if I sometimes have found if I sort of.

I did a movie where I had like a very blonde wig that was like a medieval... Were you Ric Flair or something? I wish I was Ric Flair. That would be spectacular. I'd love to play... It was actually a good movie. I really liked it. It was called The Last Duel. And it was great director Ridley Scott and he had this idea for it. Oh yeah, Ridley Scott. And yeah, there's the thing there you see. And I liked the...

If no one, I think, had ever seen me or whatever, I thought that was really interesting. The problem is that people, I think what it did was people first of all created noise around, you know, look at this hair. Is this different? And we know it's a wig. And so now you look at it and you go, but I know he doesn't look like that. And so it causes you to kind of think it's false. That's an example of kind of,

probably not being able to go that far away from myself and still have people go, okay, I can sit aside what I know and just watch this story and, and like it and believe in it. Dude, that's fast. That's insider baseball, man. No, I could, it makes total sense.

It makes total sense that that would start to affect how we see things. You know, there's something that's happening where it's hard to get people to believe in some of these movies, you know, and people's attention spans have changed. It's gotten interesting. Yeah, there's a bunch of things. The fact that like even the online world, for example, you see now that like shorter and shorter and shorter like clips or even my son, you know,

who's constantly showing me clips of you, by the way. You know what I mean? Oh, is he a nice kid? He's a great kid. Yeah, he's a fabulous kid. And he's, now when I watch him scroll, it's like he doesn't even get through the six seconds. You know what I mean? He's like, you know, and he'll, like a long period of time for him is four or five seconds.

And it's, and then I'm like, Hey man, you know, let's watch this show or watch this movie. And it's like, he gets bored fast. He got to really love something to sit through it. And then he, you know, binges like all the episodes. Like we just sat through like, and watch, you know, in a invincible, this animated show, you know? And then it's like, let's keep going. And so it's this weird dichotomy of on the one hand, it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Okay. Then plug in and like mainline this one thing and eat it all up till it's gone. Um,

And yeah, so it's, it has really changed. You didn't used to be able to, to like pause and select or even have that much to choose from. Yeah. Like though that many choices is overwhelming to the, to the mind. Like we weren't made, I don't believe evolutionarily to,

And, and, and as human beings to like, you know, we're supposed to be living in like a village and see about a hundred people in our lifetimes. Right. That's the vast majority of human history. That's how we did it. And I still feel like in a way that's how we're socialized. It's why, for example, if you're feel left out of a group, it's very painful because like in, you know, thousands of years ago, if you got left out of the, the, the village, the group, whatever, and then take you to hunt, you died, right?

You needed those people to live. So it hits something really limbic inside of you. Even social media, for example, you're looking at stuff and you go, damn, why is everybody else's life so good? And seeing the life you're advertising looks so fucking cool. And my inside life feels like shit.

That also is like a basic primal thing. And I think that's what this stuff kind of touches. But the amount of information now that comes in, because really now everybody's a celebrity, right? Everybody is a celebrity. Everybody is followed. Everybody's life is out there. There's newborns. There's four months old and 1,100 followers.

And it's really like 1100 followers is kind of, it's just a, it's not any different from celebrity. It's just a matter of degree. But this is a formal, he can't even open his, both of his eyes at the same time. And it's like, yeah, exactly. And, and that's kind of become the, that as the currency of man, that looks great. You know, that like the currency of like fame in and of itself as a desirable thing. Like people go, man, I want to be rich and famous. Like,

Take rich. You know what I mean? Famous is not going to make you happy. It seems like it will because it's like, oh, people will like me and know my name and kind of know who I am and I'll feel like I've done something great.

I think a lot of times what happens is if it doesn't come with a real sense of achievement or accomplishment, it actually feels hollow and empty and bullshit and undeserved. Do you think you wanted to start directing because it gave you even more of a sense of accomplishment? Yeah, I wanted to... Is that a weird question? But does that make any sense? No, it does make sense. I wanted to... I really... I wanted to fail on my own terms. Yes. Because I had gone through some movies where I was like, I don't like this, I don't agree with this, but you...

you know, you got to do how it's like being a playing football team, whatever. You got to run the plays that the coach sets up. You know what I mean? They're going to, you know, run a draw play, not get the ball and, you know, turn around and run a sweep. Right. Because they're not blocking that way. You know what I mean? It's just, that's, that's not going to work. Right. So you, that's how,

that whole art form is sort of structured by and large. And what I found was, you know, I had a real strong sense of the way I wanted to do it. And when it didn't work,

When it worked, I didn't feel great because it wasn't me that had that feel. You know, I didn't feel like I didn't feel proud of it. And when it didn't work, I just felt pissed off. Like, fuck, I could have done that. I didn't want to fucking do it. God damn. I didn't want to. You know, I said it. And that's a terrible feeling. So I'd rather fail on my own terms or succeed on my own terms.

And that's where I kind of got into directing. And I wanted to do it even when I was younger. And I just didn't have the confidence. And at a certain point, I kind of had nothing to lose. And that was really what kind of gave me the courage to take that leap. Into directing, you mean? Yeah. Because as an actor, I sort of got real cold and had a couple of movies that didn't work. And then...

you know, all of a sudden it can be kind of over for you. That's why it's a tough business. Fuck. Yeah, man. Like there's no like a seniority. There's no tenure. There's no, you know, retirement, no gold watch. If your show doesn't work or maybe it doesn't work and nobody wants to hire you, like they're just gonna hire someone else. You know, it's, there's 130,000 people in SAG and there's only 30,000 people that work every

year. Right. And then there's an even smaller amount of those roles where, you know, you have more than two lines. So it's a very, it's very tough. Right. And so if you're not, people aren't watching and they're not coming or it's not interesting, see later. And now it's different because I think the movie theater, you know, it's like, it's a new attack. I think it takes novel thinking these days. I think it takes, I think that movies themselves long form, um,

I think it's, they're going to have to find some new, unless it is like great or new or so novel, they're going to have to find some new ways to either present it or edit it. I'm not sure what it is, but to me, just as a viewer, it feels like we're in this shift because so quickly have people gotten into these quick moments and

And it's not even that their attention span is short, their commitment. It's like, they don't want to, it's like, I'm not committing to that. Think about all the other options that you have. Oh, totally. You're sitting there with a computer. You're fucking. Like when I was a kid and we went out, there wasn't shit else. There was three channels of nothing on TV and it wasn't. And if you didn't go see the movie in the theater, you had to wait, you know, a

year for it to come out on like VHS or DVD or whatever it was or cable and so you were kind of a rumor you just had to wait for it to come out in a diorama like it was bad exactly the cave painting and shit how long is it going to take you to paint this on my cave or a tattoo a guy came through with a tattoo and it told a story the whole thing yeah

And so you had to like, it looked like a domestic dispute a lot, but you're like, Hey, you know, there's every, there's a story for everything. But dude, even like this, like Danny McBride gave me this like two, like a month ago or something. This light, it's like a flashlight or something. Well, this side, just like a flashlight. Right. But the other side is like a wiener light. Like you can put like a wiener on something. It has like a, but I'm just saying like everything has like two, like seven things. Right.

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But I'm just saying, like, everything has, like, seven things now. Right. And I think you're right. If you want to get people to go to the theaters, movies have got to be really good. Like, you can't just – you used to be like, okay, let's go to three movies in the theater every weekend. People are going to go to one of them. Now you've got to have a reason to –

want to go out and see it. And I'm lucky because, you know, the reason why I'm really confident about this movie, The Accountant 2, is it actually plays great. It's a really good movie. People love it. I've been, you know, but I was the one where I was like, let's make, let's test this movie. Let's take it out there. And I'm like, okay, this movie belongs out there theatrically. And there's still, it's still more difficult. In the old days, this movie would have been

Home run, easy. Obviously, I'm like, the movie's great. It works great. It's a big smash hit. Now you have to like, okay, work hard to get it out there because ahead of time, you screen it for people. You see what they say and the reaction's pretty consistent, interestingly. So, but now it's like, you know, I think your point about

what you have to do, like the Minecraft movie or Barbie or, you know, it almost has to become like a cultural event, like where people are going, acting the scenes out. Like there's a whole reason to go do it. Kind of, you know, or else it's really good. And that's really what I believe in this. This movie is, listen, I, you know, absolutely. Would you come out and say it was good if it wasn't?

Not like that. I would sort of talk around it or talk about, well, there's some things I like about it. But now I wouldn't even want a movie to go out theatrically. I didn't think it was going to work theatrically because it's, you know, I think, well, you know, there's people that will watch this on streaming because I do think the bar is lower. And I think there are different kinds of movies work on streaming and, you know, great movies work on streaming too. But I would say,

I would choose to do that. This was one that was supposed to be, I wasn't, you know, it wasn't like we're going to go out. The actually was when the movie came together and worked as well as it did. You know, we thought this is definitely a theatrical movie and it's, it's, I think it's really good. I'm really proud of it. I love it. John Bernthal is great. It's,

funny it's better than the first one yeah he was my brother he's great he's your brother yeah that's to me and it's we're like a two-hander yeah yeah y'all are brothers in the movie he's not my real brother but yeah yeah he's he and he's fucking amazing in the movie and he plays your so wait so who is the accountant or you can't tell no it's me right i'm this guy's accountant who's got who's are you a cpa we're i was cpa but it's sort of one of these things where it's gonna sound a little bit uh

Far-fetched when I tell you, but it's actually very plug, which is we grew up to obviously together as we're brothers. And we had this father that was very tough on us, like heavy duty military guy. This is in the first movie, right? When we were kids, you see flashbacks and he kind of was, you know, trained us movie.

You've seen the first movie, right? This is the second. You saw the first one when Me and John came out like eight years ago. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this is the second one. This is the sequel. Oh, yeah. Sorry, man. I didn't put it together. But I think this actually, you know, which is rare, and I definitely wouldn't say this if it weren't true, is better than the first movie.

It's funny. It's got more kind of heart. It's, it's more broadly accessible actions better. And I really liked the first movie. So, and you directed this one too? No, I acted it. Got him. Gavin O'Connor directed this movie. He was a really good director who directed the first one. And how do you, um, decide who is a good director? Cause you are a good director yourself. Thank you. Um, but I guess the way you decide that honestly is by watching their movies. Okay. You look at it and you go kind of, you know, uh,

And if it's something that you do, you sort of watch it and you can tell even movies where there's instances where it's like might not be my kind of movie or it might be my taste. But you can still say, OK, well, this somebody who really understands this is like a master. This is somebody who's very competent or.

or it really is to, to my taste. And I'm like, this is amazing. Yeah. But you know, it's hard to get good at. So, you know, there aren't very many great directors and that's, that's one of the really tricky things about, about making movies. I'm really like, this is the third time I've worked with this director, Gavin, and I really liked the guy. He did Miracle. Um, he did his movie Warrior. Uh,

Warrior is with the boxer? Jake Gyllenhaal? No. Why am I forgetting his name? The dude from Venom. Tom Hardy. Oh, yeah. And Nick Nolte. People love him. And he did Miracle, which is about the Olympic hockey team. Oh, yeah. Against Canada. America versus Canada, I think. Or something. Russia. Yeah. Russia, the original. Oh, no. Russia's like dirty Canada. That's right. Exactly.

Yeah, it's kind of like, and that's, yeah, no offense to anybody who's Russian, but also, you know it. So it's not like we're keeping secrets from them. We're advertising that. So is it, would you go work on it? So if you and Jon Bernthal, you guys are buddies, you get along well? I love the guy. Yeah, I knew him. I liked him. So that makes it fun. We came really close with him on this movie. Yeah, we just hit it off really well. And it's like,

I'm sure you experienced this like in your line of work. Like some people you kind of just hit it off with the works. It's a great, like, Oh my God, you don't even know kind of how it happens. And sometimes the chemistry is just not there. You know what I mean? Dylan, have you ever met, seen Tim Dylan? No. Oh, you just got to watch him, dude. He's so funny. He's just one of the funniest guys he ever made. He just made me think like he's somebody that's really funny. Right.

Shane Gillis. Yeah, Shane Gillis is funny. But I mean, so what I'm saying, like for you personally, right? Like you might find that like you sitting down talking to somebody works, even if somebody's great, they might come in and you guys just don't hit it off or you might be great together. In this case, I really felt like with John, like we got really lucky and we both kind of, it's like a two hander. It's like a kind of odd couple sort of brother because I'm very reserved, very straight. He's very tough and ballsy and so like, you know what I mean? And so we're kind of opposites.

but we love each other, but we're kind of brothers. So we drive each other crazy and we're frustrated with each other. And there's kind of those things really, those kind of relationships, dynamics and stories really depend on the chemistry you have. And John's a just amazing actor, but also it was great to work with him. And I love the guy. I respect him. He's a good man. He's a great father. He works hard. He's just everything. I,

I've heard a lot of neat things about him because he podcasts as well. I think he has. He might have to take breaks from it if he's acting a lot. How long are you shooting something like that? And then are there phases during a movie shoot where it's like –

It starts off, you know, it's like, and you just kind of get burnt. Is there a way to kind of... Yeah, because the way they set it up is like, you know, and I don't think this is like optimal necessarily, but because of how you got to get everybody together and, you know, build the sets and do all this shit and all at once, you know, it gets, you end up working like, you know, 14, 16 hour days. Oh, yeah. And, you know, there is, you know...

it's a function of just the, some inefficiencies and the way it works. And sometimes that's what you have to do. So you, you're constantly working on sort of all you're thinking about morning, moon, night, and then you go home, go to sleep, wake up, go back to work, work. So you can get burnout on it, but you can also like with account too, it was like,

It started to just work better and better than I thought. And so every day I was thrilled to go to work. You know what I mean? And I found as I get older, I'm like, I want to work with people that I really like. Because like so much of your life is spent at work. That becomes kind of what like obviously, you know, I have my family. That's the number one thing in my life. And I just make the time for that. I have my kids on divorce. I have them, you know, half the time. So I got them half the week.

Then I'm like with them, that's part of my life I'm going to spend at work. And that's so I've realized like we want my life to be happy. I got to have fun. Then I want to be working with people that I really like and respect and enjoy being around. And it's not always easy to choose that. Not everybody can. You get lucky, you know. And so I was with this was really lucky. I love John.

Have you ever made, yeah, 'cause David Spade and I wrote a movie that we just shot a couple months ago. - Oh really? - Yeah, so it was fascinating. I've just kind of learned about how to do it. Like we've been friends for about-- - How long did you shoot for? - Four years, we shot for 23 days and we got-- - That's pretty quick. - It was, it was quick. We got pushed by the fire, so everything kind of got messed up and we kind of, not everything got messed up, but we got like sandwiched in a moment where it was like, everybody's here, the winds are 40 miles an hour today, we have to shoot, there's no, we paid for it ourselves.

So it was like, we have to do this. Did you find out when people leave your own money on something, all of a sudden it's like, okay, we're going to do this. Like people have a whole different attitude. That's something I've found. They're like, oh, we need a Dalmatian. I'm like, we don't have a Dalmatian. We'll fucking shave that sheep.

and fucking staple some tattoos, some spots on this motherfucker and shoot. And with removable glue, glue some Oreos to it and get that bastard out there, you know, teach it to bark. We have 40 minutes, get on YouTube and teach that thing to bark. Um, have you ever made a movie that you, that you didn't put out or that wasn't put out? Oh yeah. Uh, uh,

early on I made a bunch of movies that were like independent movies that, you know, they didn't have like distribution. They have like a studio that said, okay, we're paying for this. And when it's finished, we're going to put a bunch of money in advertising because you got to spend a bunch more money to advertise a movie after you make it. Right. And, and,

or at least, you know, and that's one of the big things that's changing. Now people are like, okay, how can we do this in a more intelligent way? Because all that money spent on television commercials is just a wasted now. And that's, that's why I'm here. Like this is a much more effective way to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude, it seems exciting. Well, here's the thing. I think when you tell me that it's good,

I honestly think that I believe you that it's going to be good. Yeah, I'm telling the truth. The movie's really good. I wouldn't be, like, if you had a movie that wasn't good, you kind of do a few of the basic things. Because look, it's going to turn out like, you know, it's going to be a bell curve one way or the other. The better you are, you're going to move your bell curve a little bit further down and have a better chunk of movies. But I got about like 12 movies that I really love and I'm proud of and about 25 that are like, I like this, I didn't like that. You know, and about 10 or 12, whatever, that are like,

that's fucking terrible. I hate this. I can't watch it. And it was awful. And when I did independent movies, they would, sometimes they just didn't get distribution. Like no one wanted to put it out or I went to a film festival. I haven't had movies that were so like just something so terrible happened when the studio already was making it, that it wasn't put out. But you know, you have like, they changed their plant. You can kind of see, Oh, now we're going to shift to this or that. Now you can put something on streaming and you don't,

it used to be like you were going to go out theatrical so you kind of were like naked you just had your you know what i mean and if it didn't work everybody knew because they say look this movie made 10 cents this weekend and you know you'd want them to take the fucking billboard down you drive past the billboard like it was like you're the bomb the movie's about you know you're up there at night in your batman costume just painting over it one of those big paint reachers um dude did you ever see family man did you see that movie

I love that movie, man. Oh, yeah. Family Man I liked really a lot. Dunkirk I liked. I thought it was cool. Chris Nolan's a brilliant, brilliant guy. Tell me about your movie with Dave Spade. Who do you play? Is it comedy? Yeah, it's just bus boys. It's like he's like a guy. He's just like we're just two kind of dumb guys or whatever. We just got the first edit through, so it's like I'm watching it right now, man. Let me tell you, like that first cut of the movie, like when I see the first cut of my own movie, I want to kill myself.

Really? So like you should not go crazy seeing the first cut and not like it. I almost have never, like now I have a company and we make a bunch of movies and you know, the first cut, it's, this is one of the only movies where the first cut came in. I was like, it's great. Really? 90% of the time you're like, okay, we got a long way to go. It's a very iterative process. They get better and more work is done after you finish shooting to make it good. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm meeting with an editor next week. Sit down and be like, this is what's supposed to be funny about this scene.

Like, and explain it to them. What you think is funny and is good because they, it may seem obvious to you and it probably doesn't to that person. Like you can lose track of you go, look, the reason it's funny is because you think we're going to do this. We, we know this about us from the first, you know, whatever scene. And when it come in, it's that take where I like yelled at the guy, that should be a surprise. Like,

You'd be surprised how often it's hard to put a cut. Go in and tell us. Cause I've been spending my nights like watch. And now I'm going to feel shitty too, to put your, all that work into it and look at it and go, the fuck is this? Right. It's the worst feeling in the world. It feels fucking horrible. Cause it's like, I'm very particular about like what I create. Like you said in the beginning, it's like, I like to make things. I know what I want. You know, it's like,

I know my intuition. And if I fail on my intuition, then that's exactly where I want to fail because that's pure to me, right? Like, that's okay. Yeah. And like, that's what you want to do. Great. Right. But it's a very tricky thing for other people to get you. Yes. And to know, you know what I mean? Your sense of humor, your worldview is all obvious to you, right? But it's just not to people. So a lot of times you have to spend like more time than you would have thought literally going here.

here's what should be funny. If you can explain the joke, like you're a super funny guy, funny comedian, you understand comedy very well. So you can sit and break it down to him and go like, you got to know this about it. What's funny is that, you know, we didn't expect me to do this. Right. That's a callback to this other moment or the whole thing that when I did it, what I thought was funny is this take where I did that. Like,

Because on the set, I'm sure if you're doing a comedy and you shot it, you had moments where you were like, that's funny, right? I think that's funny. I think that's good. Sometimes it's literally about going back into the dailies and saying, OK, go find the close-up or find this two-shot. The thing where I said to David and David looked at me like this and whatever, that was the one where I left and thought that works. There's no mystery or magic to why they're doing it a different way. They do.

oftentimes just need feedback. It's, it is, this is not like sculpting or writing a novel. It's not a single person, you know, it's collaborative. It has to be collaborative, right? If I'm directing a movie with you in it, and it obviously is going to have your comic sensibility. Like I got to know and get what's funny to you, or I'm not the guy. Right. And, and I'm, I'm going to need help along the way. Any director is going like, so how come, what, what do you imagine about this? Or what do you think? You know what I mean? Like,

that's why you have to explain it and sort of talk about it. Cause that person's got to understand all those things that made you be funny in the first place and start going, Oh, people are laughing when I say, Oh, these are funny. You know what I mean? And you've put it together and professionalized it, but like you got to share that with them. Otherwise,

Really? And then this is also where people sometimes get into fights, of course, because people's ego gets in the way. But ego will kill you. You have to be able to hear. I don't care what you do. You have to be able to hear like this doesn't work. This is dog shit because the audience will tell you, you know, that's a thing. And it's like, I'm so particular. I'm not particular, but I just know what kind of has worked. You know, that's valuable because not everybody does. So what you have, right?

Is that awareness? You don't think about it. You don't have, you feel it, right? You're like, that feels funny. Or when you see something, you're like, that feels wrong. Like makes you uncomfortable, right? You see it. So that is a thing that's unique to you, right? So you need to,

like give them access to that and get it. And when you, you know, and if somebody is going to like take it personal, it's, it's not personal. Like it's your, you know, and when David thought was funny, like, okay, like you have to be connected in that way and you have to understand that it's not about like, okay, fuck you guys. Now I'm going to go make my vision of this thing. No, that's a disaster.

- No, no, no, I just think like, yeah, like this is why this was written this way and this is why it's funny. And so this is the first time that we're like more hands on with it. - Well then you should definitely be hands on 'cause by the way, no one's gonna do it for you. - Oh, I agree with that too. - You want it to get better on its own, man. It's gonna get better if you get in and work on it. And by the way, you're gonna see it again and you're gonna have to go, okay, closer. Now let's try this, let's try that. And then again,

The way movies get better really is iterative. It's like coats of paint. You know what I mean? You got to keep on going. It's like a good paint job on a car. It's like 12 coats of paint. That's why it looks good. You know what I mean? Do movies take a long time to edit sometimes? Yeah. 26 weeks is the post-production schedule for most movies. That includes music. That's half of one year. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's longer than the production. You're trying to grab everything you can during production that's more expensive every day to shoot. Editing is, you rent the editing room, the facilities. We needed an owl one day. We had an owl, right? This bitch, it was $1,100 an hour. For an owl? Yeah, it was like a semi-endangered. I don't want to say endangered or whatever, but it was like ad- Do they charge more if it's like, you know what I mean? Like, if you can get a chicken, they're not endangered. You can kill that shit, just cut his head off. That's $10 for the owl. You can get a tall chicken. You know?

No one's going to know the difference. You can take the chicken, break his neck, and he's turned around. You can get a tall, curious chicken. We'll give you that. I think maybe that's just like one of those things where it's like, what's the rate for owls? You just get to make it up if you sell owls. It's like, God, you get into there and there's just all this animal entrapment. What else was I thinking about? Would you let your children... Well, I want to talk to you a little bit more about directing. So...

Because Argo you directed, right? And did you care about the Middle East that much? Were you like a Middle East guy? I did study the Middle East in school, and so I understood –

about it. I wouldn't make a movie that I didn't, it'd be like making a movie with you and not getting your humor, right? Like it would just be crazy. Like you, if as the director, you got to care more, be more interested in that movie than everybody else. Everyone else is going to be bored of it. Right. And you've got to love it the whole time through. So the big key is like, this is going to be interesting to me. There was a lot of things that were interesting to me about that movie. One was the real story, the CIA agent who had done it, the, the, the people that I met and talked to at the CIA, the actual nature of like,

work versus, you know, what you have seen with a like, you know, you know, like super spy shit. That's not really realistic. And this story was really interesting to me. And also I thought it was like the fact that they had this like bizarre connection to Hollywood and this Hollywood makeup artists. And that we try to bridge those two worlds was, was really interesting to me, but it was a scary, challenging movie because the director's main job is tone.

That's what the director is going to really create. What's the tone of this? What's the vibe? Is this serious? What are we interested in? What do we consider funny? All those things that go into all the choices we make in life from the car you get, the clothes you buy, all that. What is your taste? And not everyone's going to like it. Some people, it's just not going to be their taste. You've got to at least make it as good as you can

To your own taste. Like you said, your own instincts. Yeah, you got to find that tone that matches. Because people want to believe. They're going to expect a certain tone from you as well, I think. Yeah, and when that tone doesn't work, you're like, this is kind of crass. Jesus fucking, you know what I mean? Corny. It's like it seems silly or whatever. And it's like because you're asking someone to take something seriously that they can't take seriously or think is funny that they don't think is funny. And that's where it's a trick.

tricky kind of nebulous job, but that's the most interesting to me, important thing about it. And that's, yeah. You know, do you, would you let your children act? Do you think?

Well, I wouldn't let him act professionally while they were children, no. But I would let – if they want to do plays and shit and make their own kind of stuff with their friends, that's fine with me. I don't think it would be – I don't know judgment against people that do it. I've done playing movies with child actors and stuff. Oh, yeah. And that's fine. From my experience acting as a kid and what I want for my children is not –

Is not that. But also you got to understand that then they, you know, I got a 19 year old, I got one 16, I got one 13. Oh, wow. They make their own choices. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's true. Right. As a dad, you just like that. Is that, is that gotta be tougher when you're a dad? Like you kind of have already lived some life. So you were like,

And not even about acting, it's about anything. And then your kid is kind of like making it like, is that, and you don't want to like probably push them too much or like, because then you're pressure some dude, that's gotta be a real, like walking up police line or something. Yeah. I mean, that's the whole job of life. It's like for me before I had kids, you know,

I didn't really realize what my life was about. And then this becomes the central challenge of your life. And, and if you have a, everybody has complications and tricky shit in their life. And that's part of being a parent is managing that with what kind of life am I bringing my kids into making a good life for my children? How do we, you know, uh,

And that's part of that is my kids are growing up out here in LA. I didn't grow up in LA. I didn't, I never met a famous person or actor or anything. That shit just seemed like a million miles away to me and totally. Sure. If you're in the rest of the world, it feels so far away. And then you forget after you're here for a while, how far away it seems to other people. Like if you meet, you know, like just anybody who was in, and it just like, that's like, it was a, I remember I was 12 years old in Boston and I saw the,

Christopher Lloyd who played the dude on Back to the Future you know and I saw him walking down the street I think he was doing a play yeah exactly I followed the guy for like six blocks like now I'd be like there's this fucking 12 year old kid following me you know what I mean like I stalked him like I couldn't believe it that it was the guy from Back to the Future I lost my mind and it was the only you know celebrity famous whatever person I'd ever seen or known

And so my kids are now they're seeing different stuff. Some of it's useful for them because it disabuses them of some illusions that I think are worth being disabused of. And also but I'm also like, I don't look, they're going to if you if you their kids are going to kind of be and do what who they are, what they want to do, which your job is to let them know that they're loved, that they're keep them safe, you know, provide them opportunities and also not.

you know, you got to resist the temptation to, to try to get everything out of the way for him because you don't learn anything or develop any grid or, or, uh, resilience. If shit's just easy. Yeah. That's crazy. I didn't even thought about that. It's like you're watching them walk and there's something kind of in their path. And if you take it away completely, then they're not going to learn how to deal with an obstacle. But if you leave it there, then you're going to have to watch them go through an obstacle. Yeah.

That's got to be crazy. And it is hard watching your kids, even trying to climb over something. Your instinct is to pick them up, take them over. But you have to, like, yes, you don't want them to put their finger in a socket, you know what I mean, or off a cliff. But that doesn't mean... Life has to be hard. It has to be difficult in some ways. It doesn't have to be... It shouldn't be traumatic. It shouldn't be awful or painful. But...

things have to be hard for you to learn to do hard things. And this world, like it or not, is going to demand that you do hard shit. If you want to have anything, you know, if you want to be able to provide for your own family, have your own dreams, have, you know, the things that you want to have, because if you don't do it, the guy next to you is going to do it better or, you know, or the woman over here is going to do it better and you're going to lose out. And also, you know, I don't want my kids to have that first big,

tough experience in life and like kind of fall apart. You know, you got it. Like some of the best lessons I ever learned in life were from failure. In fact, for sure. I didn't learn much from success. I learned a lot from failure. You know what I mean? But the most important thing you learn is that you can survive it. You can be okay. Yeah. They can knock you the fuck down. And you, you know, you, it's like getting like when I was a kid where I grew up, I mean, we used to get in fights all the time.

Oh, yeah. You fight all the time. People used to beat the shit out of me. You get punched in the face. You get your ass kicked. And that's not – and he'd be like, yeah, he kicked your ass. And you go like – and you get up and you come to school the next day. And you know what I mean? It's kind of like – Oh, it was a tough day, dude. That first day was so tough. Yeah. They're like, damn, Randy.

It's worse that you have to hear about it than like just getting hit five times. It's like, yeah, you kind of get your bell rung. You know what I mean? And, but it's the, like, that's kind of going back to that thing about like embarrassment. Like kids will suffer more from being humiliated than physically hurt. For example, like that's the shit that really is painful. But now I don't, I don't wish to be clear that on my kid, like you don't need to be fighting and shit all the time, but it's, it's,

You know, it is valuable to know that you can fail or have something difficult happen, really painful, or get your heart broken. Have some girl be like, you know, be like, I don't like, you know what I mean? Embarrass you or whatever. You're going to be okay. These things are not going to kill you. And in fact, they actually do make you stronger if you kind of go like, okay, that was, if I didn't have some of the resilience that I picked up by, you know,

You know, my early life trying to, you know, I would have just kind of given up or collapsed or had bad shit. I'd be like, oh, you know, and I'd fall down and never get up again. Yeah. You'd have no experience. And you also, it sharpens your intuition. You start to, it all learns. It's all it is. If you can see yourself as a tool, sometimes it's definitely harder when you're younger because some of those feelings are new and it hurts so much, you know? Here's the thing. Getting better at anything really never feels good.

Like if you're building resilience, it's not a time that you're liking. You know what I mean? It doesn't feel good. Like, so that's what, okay, I don't like this. This feels like shit, but because it's hard because I can't lift these weights anymore because I can't, these other, you know, I'm exhausted and the other kids are still, you know, running sprints or whatever, you know, but like those are the moments for what it's worth where you're getting better. What is, what's something that you admire about each of your children just so one day they can look back and, and, um,

I mean, the thing I really that I care most about, and it's true of all three of my kids, is that all of them have like an innate like goodness of character, like a kindness. They don't they're not trying to go out and hurt other people. They and they have empathy like they care about and respect other people doesn't mean, you know.

Um, the, the, obviously they don't make mistakes or they're perfect or whatever, but that basic thing about them is, is really, really important. I think it's, it's definitely also credit to their mom who's, who's amazing and who's spectacular and it's great. Like, I mean, we're divorced, but we, we, I think do pretty good together, uh, raising the kids, going back and forth and all that stuff. And they're,

I mean, they're all looked at. I think, you know, like any parent, you're going to be like, my kid's so cool. I love it. Something you admire like individually about him. That's maybe unique. I think my oldest kid. No, not at all. Listen, I think truly there's so much that I don't want. I just don't want to come off. And I know my kids will be like, dad, don't fucking go on there and talk about me. You know what I mean? So I'd like my son, especially is like, dude, he's right now. I was watching. It's like, oh no, no, no. But here's the truth.

My oldest one has got a beautiful commitment and sense of wanting to make the world truly a better place. And she'll put her money where her mouth is. She doesn't want to do something. She's not asking other people to do. She makes personal sacrifices. She has that kind of integrity. My middle child is really – is this incredible –

feels things deeply like artists, you know, uh, kind of is, is brilliant and so funny. And my son has got like this incredible, like joy of life and magnetism and sweetness and goodness to him. Um, and like, that's the stuff where it's like, whether you can like dunk a basketball or write a great paper, like great. And I'm not, you know, but like that, that's the shit that to me is more important than like kind of internal character stuff. Yeah. That's cool, dude. That's,

That's nice, man. Yeah, it's nice to hear dads talk about their kids, you know? I think sometimes you just don't hear it enough sometimes, you know? I agree. I think it's...

it's so important. Like, Oh yeah. Well, it's an important thing in the world. There's not as many male leaders and as many male teachers as there were. There's not as many, like there's, there's a space where we're missing a gap of mentorship from male to male. Cause a lot of people will, some people were pedophiles or whatever, but outside of those people, it's like, there's not as many rule those fuckers out. Well, also anybody pop around to, he's driving around taking pictures of kids. Anybody else would be arrested for taking a photo of a kid in public. But, but I think absolutely boys need, uh,

important male and so do girls like you need to see that there's good men you need to understand that good men are accountable and tell the truth they can say they're sorry when they make mistake they're strong you can rely on them they're funny like that they can show you strength and love and and and all this stuff that is good and beautiful and what you the people you want to be drawn to in your future life about masculinity you want to know and see that modeled and if you don't

First of all, there are children who are expecting because we're children expecting to have that. It's important. If you don't, it fucks you up. And if you don't see what that looks like, you don't know kind of what to look for. Oh, yeah, dude. Did you have a fun like do you have a memory of your dad that was like fun with for you? I'm trying to think of one. My dad would dude. My dad was like my dad was really old when I was born.

And so my dad was 70 when I was born, right? He was born in 1910. Dad was a serious guy. Yeah. I wish he had some money, which was crazy. Because usually if a woman's hooking up with an older guy, he's got some money. He's got some money. What did your dad have going for him? It was nothing.

It wasn't funny. It must have been charming. He didn't have a bank. He was very charming. My dad was very, very charming. But he would like take me to the, like, he would like go sometimes have a beer by like this bar at the railroad tracks. And he would like let me walk on the bar. He'd like, and they had like these little bowl of chocolates or whatever. And if the bartender, I remember if I danced good, she would like give me some, some of the chocolates or whatever. And he'd be like, go wiggle for chocolates or whatever. And I remember, I just remember, I think. You're like when my dad pimped me out. That was a good time. Yeah.

Well, he was just pimping me for confections, you know, or sugars, you know. It was kind of an outtake from that movie Chocolat, if you've ever seen that. But yeah, he would be like, go wiggle for chocolates. And I just remember that was one thing that I remember. Anyway, sorry. I made that about me. It was nice to take that walk down memory lane. Yeah, it's fun. There's things I remember about it, like the bowls of peanuts and just like being in a bar like at like 5 p.m. Because my dad was older, he would go to rest. He would rest pretty early, but.

I remember that's funny because I was going to say, oh, I don't have that kind of memories of my dad really. But the truth is like, you know, after he got out of the house, you know, as a kid, he worked at bars. And so that's where I'd go see him up at the bars. And he was like a bookie and, you know, taking bets on the side. Oh, really? Yeah, a little bit. And he was – but that's what he did. He was a bartender and then for that period of life when I was kind of –

8, 9, 10, 11, 12, whatever. Did they have a jukebox in there or anything? They had a jukebox and then he'd be like, oh, go get the cigarette machine. And I went in the bar and it was cool to visit him in there. Remember the cigarette machine that had that pull out thing? Yeah, you could pull on them. And by those days they'd be like, tell you the kid, go to the store and get me some cigarettes. You walk in, eight years old, buy cigarettes. So yeah, exactly. But yeah, and also we were, I mean, my brother had gone to the bar. And that, those were, there was some, I do have some kind of fond memories of that. I wish I had more of them, which is one of the reasons why

like it's important for me in my life to make sure I don't fuck, you know, that I create those for my own children. Yeah. I think that's something that we probably learn. I think as we go along, um,

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you know, I guess, yeah, a little bit like in the sense that he was in Good Will Hunting with me and Matt and he was brilliant in it. And then, um, but you know, like anybody like, and Matt's like, who's like, you know, my best friend as a kid and stuff like Matt Damon, you know, you had like, and he got more famous of Good Will Hunting and then my brother, you know, so you kind of, and you know, people, if you're really like,

to map it out, like those sort of how famous are, which is kind of a weird and a hard thing to tell. Right, I agree. It kind of moves around, but my brother was always a working actor, and then he became, you know, he really established himself, of course, won the Oscar for acting and kind of established himself just as a great actor and had a more steady kind of arc. In Pittsburgh, remember, with Michelle? Oh, yeah. You're talking about...

Manchester by the Sea yeah that's what he won the Oscar for he was amazing in that movie yeah god it was so good is it he's a great actor my brother is it yeah are you guys pretty close

We are, you know, we're, we're, we're close. We, um, he's got great kids. I love his kids and, uh, he's a great guy. And, you know, you, you, you know, um, I guess you get through phases in life too, where you're kind of like people are, you're kind of doing the same thing or you're just in different spaces. That's what happens when you kind of really like get older. And then we were like up to 30 or whatever.

I was just like hanging out with guys all the time. You know what I mean? We were going out, we're doing this or whatever. And that was kind of life, most of it. And so you see all your friends all the time. And my brother was one of the, you know, we'd all hang out and then you have kids, you have family. And then it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to have,

at five or whatever for seven. And then you kind of have to, you lose a little bit of that bigger network of like, who are the, like, I know who 10 of these guys are. Who are the other six? You know, that starts to kind of go away and you kind of have to be more selective. But, you know,

you know uh my brother's is a brilliant funny amazing guy and his kids are it's a joy to see his kids grow up and be you know yeah being an uncle's fun oh it's the best because then you don't really you can kind of just like let him do shit you know you have to be really the dad yeah you know i'll tell you this so there was um i live in nashville so i moved there about four years ago and there was so the other night there's like tornadoes or something and i didn't know like

and I live in like it's a nice room but it's nothing crazy it's not like rich enough where you're away from tornadoes you know you better be pretty how rich you have to be to get away from tornadoes I don't know I'm still in the wind district you know so there's a freaking tornado warning there's sirens going off over town I didn't even know we had sirens so I'm texting my nephew thank God I called him twice and then finally I texted him I was like dude I was like bro tornado warning what do I do and he's in middle school or whatever

And thank God he's like, get under your desk. That's what he fucking says at 4 a.m. And I was like, dude, I don't have a fucking desk. You know what I'm saying? And he goes, don't curse at me over text. And I'm like, this fucking kid does not know how to support a family member.

It's just like- That's hilarious. Anyway, I don't even know what I told you that story about. Were we talking about weather? I don't know. Oh, family members. Oh, yeah. And what it's like to be an uncle. Yeah. I get to see my nieces and they're coming for Easter tomorrow, so I'm excited about that. But yeah, being an uncle is so much fun. How many nieces and nephews you got? I got five total. One of them just went to prom, so I got to be there when she took pictures. I was in Baton Rouge for that. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

It's fun. Yeah. And you kind of get to be like a little bit of the confidant. Like you're kind of like on the edge of dad. Cause they'll tell you stuff. That's kind of like, you can't talk to your parents about like whatever, you know, something, but you can kind of let, you know, the uncle kind of know. And you, so you can be kind of on the side a little bit, a little cooler, even if you're really not that much school. And they're like, don't try to play it off like that. But yeah,

you kind of get away with it a little bit and you know, you gotta like, you can't, you can't push it. You know what I mean? But it's like, and you gotta know when to snitch to on them too. And tell the dad what's going on. Did you, um, let me think about a movie thing. Oh, did you get to keep your Batman outfit? I did. Yeah, I did. In fact, that's at our office. And it's, um, it's one of those things people like, it's like, uh, it's one of those things that sort of like,

I don't know. People like to see it. It kind of reminds me a little bit of like planet Hollywood a little bit. So I'm always like, I don't get this bats rubber bat suit here. It's just, but it's like, I don't know. It's hard to tell. Like, look, I get it. That's a kind of a cool movie souvenir. Sometimes I feel like if you put a grapefruit on like,

every week. You know what I mean? And then you just put it to the mall. People will go by and be like, Oh, there's that grapefruit from TV. You know what I mean? So it's sometimes I would tell whether something's interesting because it's interesting or because, but, but I can see how that is kind of interesting. The most interesting thing about it when people see it as like, damn, how do you wear this?

And it's true. It is like of all the, those type of roles and stuff, like the superhero thing that the outfits make it a lot harder to do your job because you're kind of constrained and they're real hot. It's like, you know, when like wrestlers, like when I was a kid used to run around with like trash bags to lose weight because you just dump all the water. You know what I mean? Like that's sort of what those outfits are.

Oh, yeah, you'd see like some guy just with his yeah, you see some guy in your neighborhood who's on the wrestling team whatever I know the wrestlers Yeah, exactly wrestling team and he's running down the street Try to lose 15 pounds in 10 minutes

He's just spitting on his family members and he's just cursing because they say cursing helps you burn calories or whatever. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. But you never put it back on for anything fun or to surprise family members? I did it for my kid's birthday when he was... Yeah! My son's birthday. He was a little young, but it was fun. I got the pictures now. Now he's like, I guess that was cool that you did that. At the time, I didn't know what the fuck you were doing. And I'm like, but it was cool, though. Do I get credit for it now? He's like, I guess. He barely... That's dope. But I...

I had fun, and that was the whole reason I did it. Like, I want to be Batman. My son, like, how cool is it your dad's Batman? My son was like, you know, three and shit, and so he was, like, scared of the movie. But, you know, since then, it's like he's become kind of, in retrospect, I think, kind of cool. It's hard to tell what your kids think is cool because most of the time they're kind of like, uh-huh. Yeah, they don't really tell you kind of because it's almost like you're like –

Yeah, I don't know. I just watched my brother have nephews. Like, I want to get a wife and children. I don't have a wife yet, but yeah, you all... Look, your parents are never going to be like... Because part of the thing is like, you don't... You can't like... You need to separate from your parents, right? You need to like move away, get out of the house, that whole thing. Like move on, become your own man and all that stuff. And if you're too wrapped up in like your folks and you can...

you know, it gets in the way of that. You know what I mean? You got to start to slowly separate in those ways that kids do. So there's part of it where they're like, you know, and it comes off like, well, I'm like, Hey, you guys want to play some game? Close the door. Get out of my room. Close the door. I'm like, just, so just leave. And then there's that moment. It's the first time you kind of close the door. And there's that moment where the dad's just by the door and he's kind of sad that he's in the hall. But then he goes in his room. He takes three steps. He's like, hug.

good. I got some free time. But there is that moment. It is, yeah, absolutely. And they come back around, you know what I mean? Do you think, I auditioned for a Project Greenlight movie that you guys had years ago. Really? Yeah, it was one where there was like a guy in a wheelchair and they were like

people were coming in like you were trapped in a bar or something. Feast, maybe the horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just remembered that. That's crazy. You auditioned for it? Really? Yeah, I was not any good. That's wild. I'm not a good at it. I think it's a bad idea to do that. But anyway, I just remembered that. It popped in my head. Do you still have Project Greenlight? No, it's not. I mean, it's not currently. We did it with the company we have them, but we are not doing it now. And we took it. We had it on for a while back then and then brought it back.

it's interesting. I really liked it. And I thought it was interesting that like, cause it's because that's what I do. And I know, okay, that's tricky. Like it's hard. You got all this drama that comes up on a movie, but when we had like a million dollars to make the movie and everybody like a million dollars, like that's like nothing. And,

And now it's almost setting people up. It would kind of just be like, then you'd just be doing a show about people getting into arguments and smashing things and having a breakdown because you can't really even do it for a million dollars. Yeah, times have changed. Unions and wages and all that stuff. But I really liked...

that idea of that show and what we were able to, because to me it was about like also creating opportunities for people that are outside Hollywood, you know, who could come in and be like, look, I know what I'm doing. I want to do something. And then you got to like, okay, well, let's see what you can do. What, um, do you think Tom Brady's good as an announcer? Yeah, I think Tom's good as an announcer. I think he's,

Look, me too, dude. I think he's really smart, obviously, about football. I think that, like, it's a... People kind of... You and you're the greatest quarterback who ever lived. They think, okay, now he's going to come in and change broadcasting. And just being a normal human being seems kind of like... I mean, who do you want to listen to analyze something? If I want to, like...

somebody tell me about like a, you know, a concert, like I want to hear from, you know, some great musician, you know, if I'm, if you're, you figure, well, nobody's going to have better or wiser analysis analysis than Tom. Maybe not about like telling jokes or whatever. That's something different. Yeah. But yeah, I think so. And,

but he's a surgeon. He seems like a surgeon when he's talking about it and the way he breaks down certain moments and how long it takes to do certain things. He's like, well, they got about this many yards. They're going to have to move about this many, this many yards a second. Like he's definitely, you start to see who he really is. Like how much,

analysis went into that. I still think one of his like real, like one of the things that really separated him, cause you know, everybody knows about how like, you know, he, you know, he was like drafted late and all this stuff. Like, and there's, you know, his, his like combine numbers weren't like, you know, so people weren't just like, this guy's gonna be amazing. I feel like one of the things that he has that people didn't really talk about is like,

And this is so fucking important. I feel like he has this thing where he doesn't get tight. He just doesn't get nervous. I think that there is a huge advantage. Imagine you're in the Super Bowl and it's like fourth and eight and you got six seconds or whatever and you win. You're good. Everyone else's heart rate is back.

I think it's what makes actors good too. Good actors at certain moments. Getting relaxed, the ability to relax in situations where other people get tense because tension and stress, it locks you up. You know, you panic. It's like everything. It's all bad. Oh, it's horrible. That's when, yeah, dude, it's definitely, there's moments. The first time I'd ever audition, I was like, open the windows, open the windows. I'm like, there's not a lot of windows in here. And they're like, they're already open. I remember I was, I kept blacking out and then I had to like do some scene that I didn't even care about. What are we doing here? Yeah.

Why are we doing that? I'm sorry. That was not a plan. Oh, yeah, dude. I want to tell you about the ever see that Dunkin Donuts commercial because I know you did a commercial with them. Yeah. You ever see the one where they shut down that one? And is it boy show boy? What is it? Play. Shemokin. Duncan's Clothes by Fire. My favorite, dude.

A COFFEE SHOP IN CHAMOKIN IS CLOSED FOLLOWING AN ARSON OVER THE WEEKEND. POLICE SAY A TEENAGER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THAT DAMAGE. NEWSWATCH 16'S NIKKI KRIES JOINS US LIVE FROM THE CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA NEWSROOM WITH MORE TONIGHT. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN CHAMOKIN ARE UPSET THAT DUNKIN' DONUTS IS CLOSED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO GO FOR COFFEE AND DONUTS. TODAY WE ALSO LEARNED NEW INFORMATION ABOUT THE TEENAGE GIRL POLICE CHARGED WITH SETTING THE PLACE ON FIRE.

Like quit saying donuts.

I really miss Dunkin' Donuts. I go there every day. I get a chicken bacon croissant, or I get some coffee, Powerade if I'm dehydrated. I sit there all the time. If I have any legal work that I need to do, I go there. I meet with my attorneys there. I'm going to miss that place when it doesn't open up. A lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee, ice coffee I guess it's called.

People miss their local hangout and hope Ducky Dome is real. Anyway, that's just it. When that one closed down, man, it was just like a real people kind of went bananas on the internet. Because it turns out, guys, the legal clinic got shut down too. That's smart. I would sit there with my attorneys. My legal work, my probation officer meets me in there. I usually deal out of that place. I'm like, all right.

You don't know. When a Dunkin' Donuts closes down, you don't realize how many lives intersect in that one place. The whole community is paralyzed. What's something else that you want to direct, man? Is there something? What about you directing Timothee Chalamet? That'd be so dope. Oh, he's a terrific actor, man. He's great. And that's really what you kind of like. No matter what you do, a big part of it is

you know, 90% of it is, is, as they say, is like picking the right actors. Cause you, there's really nothing you can do. You're, you're, you're kind of like, okay, now go ahead and you can, you know, get about 10% calibration, but the right people for the right role is, is, is so much a part of what goes into directing. It's what I was talking about, like kind of understanding what people sort of think about or assumptions they have about actors that they are going to watch. There's a lot of, um,

that I would love to work with. I haven't worked with them. I'm lucky to have worked with some great ones so far. And I have a movie that I've just finished shooting called Animals. That's going to be out on Netflix that I directed. Oh, congrats, dude. Yeah, and I may even direct another movie next year, which is actually pretty quick, but it's not all set up yet. But it's something that I really love doing, and I will do it, especially like,

I got one kid that's in college now, and the other two, by the time my son, who's 13, goes to college, then I plan on kind of just directing all the time. But like I said, it takes so much focus and energy that one of the regrets I have, even about movies that I really like and I'm proud of, is what periods of time that I miss with my kids because that just doesn't come back.

You almost have to plan ahead. Like, okay, maybe they're going to be on a semester abroad or this is going to be going on. Or like this last time, I do them in L.A., you know what I mean? So I'm not traveling. So I can be home for dinner and just make that the priority. But it's a part of why I slow down a bunch from directing because it just –

In order to do it in a way that I understood that it required, like it just requires almost total commitment and concentration. Yeah, man, because we got to keep telling good stories because it's important. That's how people learn things and that's how you remember things and they become part of like history. They really kind of tell history a lot of times. Yeah, it's definitely interesting about –

Oh, you said something about, oh yeah. The shooting in Hollywood has become so tough, huh? But it's supposed to, it's supposed to be getting easier. Well, you know, it's tricky because what happened, one of the things that's happened is that like, first of all, movies just used to be made here. Like, you know, country music was made everywhere. Like that's how it was.

And then you had other states and countries that started kind of offering incentives because they felt like, you know, if we bring this business here and like it stimulates all our other businesses because there's this huge kind of trickle down effect of from the restaurants, the dry cleaners, the drivers to blah, blah, blah, blah, all this money into the economy. And, you know, L.A. or California didn't really, I think,

I'm not sure what happened. They didn't respond or try to compete. They have a small incentive now and they've actually broadened it some and I think they're aware of it, but it's tricky. Whereas other states, and they're kind of controversial. Some states have felt like they worked out for them and they're happy. Georgia's got a huge incentive program. They get all, I mean, you know, a lot of Marvel movies shoot down there.

I got placed in Georgia and I, you know, that's, that's, I filmed in Georgia. It's, it's in fact, the accountant was, we filmed in Georgia and that's why, right? They start offering the incentives, obviously been successful for California's ego about it in some weird way. It's hard to figure out. Yeah. I'm not, I don't really know enough about the politics of it to know. It seems to me like, and I think it's like, well, we've always had it here. We don't have to give the incentives. Like that's what's,

pulling people away. But it's like at a certain point you have to. But now everybody's moved and moving away and moving around. And if you can't make a movie without, the crew is what's going to make or break your movie. Now you have 3,000 people flying to like Tibet or whatever to shoot for, you know. Like the UK, they give out, they do these big reviews. So it's like, yeah, all that. Oh yeah, Louisiana did it for a long time. Harry Potter movies and all the like, DC movies, all these, this stuff goes and shoots like out of the country. You know, look, it's,

I obviously, selfishly, this is where my kids are. So this is where I want to be. But also, the best technicians, I believe, in the world, by and large, are here. And they're really artists, too. And they're ready to work, too. A lot of them. They're dying to work. And look, you have these fires and all this stuff. But look, it's hard all over. And I get it. I don't begrudge anybody anything. I would like to...

preserve, like, look, it's a big business for this country, right? Like show business. This is something that we make that everybody buys all over the world. Oh, for sure. We buy a lot of shit from other countries, right? Like this is something that people want to buy from us. Well, I'm amazed that I was talking about this with somebody and it may have been, damn, I can't remember. My brain's off on the weekend, but, but we're talking about how California hasn't really done a great job of like kind of museuming some of the,

a lot of great parts about that were in movies and like, you know, Sidney Poitier, this is where he lived for 20 years or, you know, this is the bad news bears park where they play Brady Bunch house. Right. There's some of it, but, and it's like bits and pieces on the internet, but it doesn't seem as preserved. Like when you get here, you almost think it would seem like more of a museum in itself. The city time, I think people just didn't think about it or somebody's house. They went through whatever it was, but yeah, they haven't really, I mean, you know, you can do some of these tours and stuff, but,

It's kind of like, I think California, I still feel like, even though I'm a resident now like that, I'm from somewhere else, from Boston. Yeah, dude. We'll say, yeah, for sure, Massachusetts. It seems like California is like,

is felt, I think, in a way like, hey, people come here. You know what I mean? So we don't need to bring people here, but times are changing. Movie business, like you say, is changing. The theatrical business is changing. It's all, you know, the number, you're looking at the thing that people, one thing that people watch more than anything else, which is YouTube. Oh, for sure. Exactly.

But Accountant 2 is in. Accountant 2 is out in theaters on Friday. This Friday? Yes. Go out and see it. It's great. Do I take a date? Do I take my cousin? Take your whole family. Everybody you know. Actually, the truth is, it is a movie that anybody can see. Real accountants better like it. That's the core. If accountants don't like it, we're still fucked. You're going to call the movie The Waiter and waiters don't go. You think anyone else is coming?

But it's yeah, man, it is a movie that I think honestly, like works for, you know, it's it's smart. And it's not like, oh, well, only young people like there are only old people like this. It's got everything. It's hard to make a movie that I think strikes this chord and kind of works for a broad audience. And it is better seen in the theater. So and it's one that I'm willing to leverage my kind of personal word and credibility. I'm like, go see it. You won't regret it. It's really good.

You heard that. Ben Affleck, thanks, man. Thanks for coming in and just sharing and thinking with me and just having a good time. Thanks for having me, man. This was cool. We're excited. I promise that I'll go see it. Thank you. And I think a lot of people will. I hope so. Listen, a lot of people listen to your show, so I appreciate it very, very much. Thanks for having me. Tell your son I said hello. I will, dude. That's right there. That's the whole reason for coming right there. That makes me cool right there. Now I'm just floating on the breeze.

I'll share this piece of my life. I can in my bones, but it's going to take.