How To Embrace Your True Strength, Turn Your Pain Into Power & Create A Legacy
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loving, committed relationship, child as well, first child. Where do you think temptation would have led you? Or do you think you would have made the same decision with the sand on the ground? Or was it having a committed, conscious, loving relationship and partner and teammate that allowed you to have the courage to act with that line in the sand? Well, the only reason I pause here is because I'm trying to wonder how...

little of credit to give the relationship because I'm not gonna say it's 100%, but it's up there. The relationship having her and now about to become a father, which was the only thing I ever wanted to be, had great resonance for me. I, one, had a relationship which gave me just singularly with Camilla gave me more

the license and courage to fly. But now I'm going to become immortal, so to speak, with a child coming into the world. It's the one thing I ever dreamed of being, become a father. That's at the top of my list since I was a kid. Now I'm like, well, this is what I'm doing. This part of life has always taken precedent before anything I did since got famous, won this or won that. My career was always in front of

a Hollywood career, always. That's what I mean by JK Livin. That's why "Just Keep Livin" has always been sort of a mantra. At the end of the day, argue with that one. At the end of the day, that wins out. I've always wanted to have a life that I'm leading first

and I became an actor and a movie star and famous, but not, oh, I'm an actor, movie star, and famous. So now what do I do? How do I live my life according to that? No, I wanted to keep those in order. - If you didn't have that relationship at that time, what do you think would have happened? - That's a good question. What would have happened?

do you think it would have been more tempting to take the money and let me just yeah i mean yeah the nights would have been even longer the the the the i think it would have definitely got more wobbly i would have really had to i mean i believe i could have pulled it off i'm glad i didn't have to find out if i could pull it off on my own i might have i might have run off to the monastery and still be there i i um

You know, or because I had I look I had very somewhat reliable temptation from people very close to me going, what's your malfunction? Right? My brothers and family were like, what is your major malfunction? What are you doing? You own this land in the wrong, but why are you making a straight line crooked, which is lying? He always is. Why are you making this complicated? Do you know how many people would dream dream to even be doing this? And so

I did have that understanding, which I bring up in the book, about being less impressed and more involved. I was very thankful. I was never disrespecting the rom-com. I was just like, I don't know. I didn't make this up, this feeling in me. Yeah, you were in a new season. There's a new chapter to come. So what would I be doing now if I didn't have Camilla and we didn't have our first child on the way?

I don't know. That 20 months would have felt like 20 years if I'd have stuck with it. And would I have had the patience? Would I have had the fortitude? Would I have been able to stay still in the long, lonely nights where I didn't feel like I had purpose, where I didn't feel significant?

where I didn't have a newborn child in a relationship to look at and go. Because I knew then, I was like, you put time into that, you cannot go wrong. I looked at my newborn child, I looked at him, I was like, you put time into this, you are in the black. There is no debit, no matter how many, you can't overdo that. So that gave me something. If I didn't have that, no, no, no, I'm not sure. 16 years you said you've been together, right? Yeah. 16 years.

There's a lot of men that are driven men. I'm in LA, so I see this in LA where they feel like they need to be single for a long time or they need to jump from partner to partner or have multiple partners at the same time, all these different things. No judgment, no right or wrong here, but I'm curious, what have you learned about 16 years in a relationship that has taught you about how much more successful you can be in other areas of life versus...

single life when you were also extremely successful, but maybe there was something missing emotionally or spiritually. Yeah. Well, I'm going to piggyback on where you first started. I've got friends that are poly and I've got friends that are perpetually single. To see them when they do pull it off and still have a healthy spirit and a healthy body and a healthy mind, I applaud it right on. I have seen a lot of them have to, oh, I've got to recalibrate. I've got to

You know, I got off. I got spread too thin. Energy everywhere. You know, a bunch of little campfires, but no bonfires, right? You can do it. I think a person can do it on their own. I think a person can do it in solitude. I think a person can do it even with a relationship with just themselves. It can be done. But when you have a relationship that you're committed to, that you want to make work, that it's part of your decision.

And especially when you have a child that is not only committed to you, is dependent on you. That goes to the top of the value system. And so career choices can go into the two hole or maybe the three hole. Now, I would argue that I got better at my career when it went to the two and three hole and wasn't in the one hole. Really? Because, and I feared this, I was like...

was having a family and the fact that when we had kids, my wife said, if we have kids on one condition, Matthew, when you go, we go. So my family comes with me. When she said that to me, I remember going through my mind, wait a minute, I'm an artist. I'm a lone wolf. When I go to work, I'm in my Airstream all alone. It's me and my dog, maybe. But nobody else. And as I'm saying that in my head, this other little smarter voice comes in and goes, Nadja didn't say, yes, ma'am. And I said, yes, ma'am. It was the greatest decision I've ever made. Right. Because seeing my kids...

or leave before they woke up and seeing them when I got home after work was the, was a beautiful energizing reset for me at the end of the day that filled me up with real life and made me more creative going into work the next day to tell a child when you're doing something like true detective and they go, what was the scene about today? And you go, I better tell a good parable cause I can't tell them the real thing. It's some heavy stuff, right? So I became a better storyteller and how I'd make it a nursery rhyme or something. Um,

But you're living for something for someone else and something more, you know, for Camilla and I living for the covenant that for her and I to do what we can to stay together and keep promoting each other and ourselves in a relationship. And then to have the kids I'm living, you live for something else. And that empowered me and made me better as an individual. And when I go out the door, I have more courage because I know I've got that stability at home.

Wow. Where do you think you would have been if you had been in a relationship, you know, five, 10 years prior? Yeah. And it'd be 25 years as opposed to 16. Do you think you would have been better in your career or you'd made that shift sooner? Or do you feel like, you know, being a lone wolf, you had its time and its place. I think you had its time and its place. I'm not arrogant enough to say, oh, if I go back and change time.

I mean, I've thought about that. I was with and dated seriously some wonderful women before I met Camilla. I think it wasn't the time for me and it wasn't the time for them for us to take it further, to take it as far as say getting married or something. But, you know, I often wonder what if I felt like it was time that I never did? What if I did?

You know, do we meet the right person sometimes? But it's just not the time for us. Interesting. Do we do or is it the two play? It's got to be the right person in the right time for each person. But I know I cannot go back, you know, going forward to mystery, looking back to science. When I connect the dots, I don't dare to go back and go. If I changed 10 years earlier, I'm thinking about who I was dating. If we got married, I mean.

Who knows? I don't think it would have been the same realization 10 years earlier. I was a different man. I was seeing the world differently. And we'll never know, but I think it was the right time for me when this happened. And my single years were the right amount of time for me when I was there. And those relationships before that that ultimately ended, that was the right time for them to...

to end so how old were you when you met your wife we're 16 53 40 37 37 so when you were 37 before the moment you met her yeah i think you met her at a bar sunset club on sunsets club on sunset club let's call it that morning um don't go to mini class glad i went to club this night yeah it was good let's call it that morning or that season right before you met her yeah

What was it that made you feel loved then? Yep. And what is it today that makes you feel the most loved today? Okay. What does it make me feel the most loved before? Yes. Okay. When I was spiritually strong. And look, I was, I had some relationships that were loving relationships that, or I loved the woman she loved and cared for me. And those were real. Yes. I also had a season where I,

It was just affairs. It wasn't a bad love. It was lust. It's fun. Yeah. It was fun. And it was, it was healthily, it was a healthy, fun transaction. And we laughed and kept it light. And that was all it was ever going to be. And we're not even, you know, and that was okay too. I am happy to say that through most, most of that, I was able to keep someone spiritually strong. Really? Yeah.

How did you stay? I had no, it didn't really have trouble sleeping alone in my own bed. Cause I've had those times. I think we all have, if we've had this single life where there's times where if you're, if you're rolling like that, especially if it's like affairs and flirt popping around here and there, boy, all of a sudden you end up in bed alone. You can't sleep. And you're like, Whoa, wait a minute. Now I'm the company I can't stand being with. If it's only me, that would always be a trigger for me. Like,

you better bend a knee and go go inward catch your breath and go inward here so so what made you feel the most love before you met her yeah what was it I mean was it the success or the the no I guess was it the you know no it wasn't the chasing catch I knew what I I knew what that was I that that always felt like a stop and not a stay to me it was a season yeah I understood it to be a season and I gave myself

freedom and license to have that season as healthfully as I could. I don't think I was any more shallow. I didn't think, oh, this is all there is. I did have a dream where I thought where I was 80 and 88 year old bachelor, but had a lot of children. You did? Yeah. And it wasn't a nightmare. 88 year old bachelor. You had a lot of children that wasn't on a porch and it wasn't a nightmare. Really? And I woke up from that dream.

not going, "Yippee, that's what I'll do." I did wake up with it going, "That's possible." And as soon as I said, "That's possible," I did quit looking so hard. And when I quit looking for her so hard, that's when she came. Because before that, I will say, in my thought of, I do want to find someone to fall in love with and start a family. I mean, every red light, bro.

LA possible possible produce section you know I mean possible boss every you know you just know the class whole foods we're just checking you know everywhere and that was looking it was leaning in leaning in and it's a well Mac maybe that could work like that's great well maybe that could work you know and then when I had that dream it did it was like oh on spiritual sense I was like well you might end up being a bachelor and if you've got

spiritually, if your spirit is strong, your relationship with God is strong, that's okay. It didn't make me go, that's what I want to do. But just saying that could be a reality for you. Let me exhale. And I quit looking everywhere and everywhere. I quit looking in the produce second was like, and what happens when you do that? You become more attractive. You allow yourself to be loved. You allow yourself to see someone who actually you might love, but mainly you allow yourself to be someone that can be loved. And you're not selling, you're not soliciting yourself.

You're not in a rush about anything. You're gonna meet somebody. You also, what you look at, you wanna see how they move, how far back are their shoulders? How do they talk? What do they say in between the lines? Not what they say, what do they say in between the lines? And I remember when I saw Camilla walk across the club that night, it was the way she moved.

I saw history. I saw dignity. I saw somebody that was not for sale. I saw somebody that didn't need... That when I called her over, was not happy to meet me, wasn't impressed with my vocation. And she knew who I was. Wasn't impressed with that. She was about a lot more than that. So my eyes were open to seeing what I wanted and needed. And I also...

was able to, in that moment, completely be myself. Not oversell myself. Not undersell myself. Did you feel like you needed to oversell yourself before then? Even though you had all the success and the fame and the hits and the money? I think when... It's a sped up process. You know? Especially if you're like... If it's more of a string of short-term relationships. It's like... It's not overselling. It's just like, let's skip the...

let's skip a lot of the real stuff let's skip a lot of the the you know what i mean come on we're laughing we're having a good time you know what i mean um and that's all that's all we're both in this for so you know um so you speed up the process a little bit um so i don't know when you say what did i love it wasn't my fame did i did i feel more did i feel more loved if

My movie did well and more people came up and was like, that was great. Sure, sure. But that was never my top source of affirmation of feeling love. Did I feel less loved? Movie bombed or people were like, sure. But that was never my main thing. The source of my lack of confidence or lack of significance. It was spiritual. And then I always had family at this time, being my brothers and my mom and stuff. There was always that.

that I knew was 100% reliable. But mainly I say spiritual. And then your follow up question to what makes you feel more loved now? - Yeah, when do you feel the most loved now? - Oh, the goodnight group hug with my three kids and my wife after we've just talked about what our day was like, what we're looking forward to tomorrow. And we've had a few fun disagreements and somebody said something real honest that they didn't have the courage to say maybe a week before.

And for the first time, noticed that if they shared that they weren't going to get in trouble, that they were just going. And to see them grow and going, you got the courage. Me and them to feel like a dad and go, me and your mother giving you a place to feel like you can go. Yeah, I did like her. And my heart hurts because she doesn't like me. To be able to, for a child to be able to say that to you, it's like, okay, we're doing something right. There we go. That's a feeling.

of love to have an honest talk, not just about all of the happy times, but about the stuff that sucks in my kids' lives as well. And even from my wife to share it and it not be like, dun, dun, dun, dun. To be like, yep, we're going through this. And one thing we know is we're going through it together. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. One of the things that you talked about in the book in the last couple of pages was this list of goals that you wrote down. One of them

Isn't that wild? 10 goals in life, 1992. One of them, becoming a father. And number two, finding and keeping the woman for me. The woman for me. And you got 10 of them. I'm curious, how important is it to write down our visions, our dreams, our goals in order to manifest what we want in our lives? Because this whole book is a journal of you writing down everything. And all 10 of these, you've accomplished all of them.

and you're still accomplishing and living into them. So how important is it to write down our dreams, our goals, our values in order to manifest and attract? I think it's a lot more important than we give it credit for. Look, writing things down, it seems like this old fashioned sort of archaic things. Type it. It's on the screen. Put it on a Word doc. Save it. Put in a folder. It can be lost back there. To actually write it with the hand is a different kind of objectivity you get.

Because it's come out of you. You've put it down. Now you're looking at it's outside of you. It's freed up now. It's alive. It's moving now more so than having that goal by your bedside, which is can be good. But to write it down, if you're writing down true goals, you're

they become written in your body, whether you know it or not, in your subconscious. It's a way to get it into your subconscious, to write it down. Now it's out of me. It's on a page. I'm objectifying it now. I'm looking at it. So now I'm having a dialogue where before it was just Socratic, but now I'm having a dialogue and it starts to reciprocate.

Those 10 goals, I wrote those down in the top bunk in the Dell House, University of Texas, 1992. My roommate was Monte Wills. I remember the night I wrote them down. I never looked at them again. I found those in writing this book and found out that, oh my gosh, all 10 you actually did and four you're still doing. That's crazy. I never looked at them again. 30 years later, you found them. Yeah. That's crazy. But they all happened. They all happened. I don't think they happen if I don't write them down. I don't think. They do.

So that practice of writing something down that you into or that you want or that you yearn for and to add to it or subtract from it along the way if you want to, or just write it down, fold it up, tuck it away so you can find it 30 years later when you go share a journal or write something about.

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Like I did. I don't think it happens, but then just go back and see the invisible contract I made with myself. Oh my gosh, I love that. Because obviously I did. Because I mean, those 10, people go, you've done all 10. I said, well, no, I'm in the middle. I'm still maintaining for it. But I have engaged. Some of them I've just done. But I am in full engagement with all of them. And...

Well, it's an invisible contract until it becomes a physical written contract. Right. You know. But it's with yourself. I guess it becomes, there's an invisible way it becomes subconsciously non-negotiable with yourself. And here's the interesting thing. On this, is this the exact image or is this a recreated image? No, that's it. This is a photo of it? Yeah. You signed it. Yeah. And that's what I think is actually really important because you did create a contract with self. Right. You signed the goals at the bottom. You have 10 goals in life.

9192 and at the bottom you signed it. And I think that's really important in creating a

you know, this contract with self is putting your name on something that you write down from the ideas in your mind into paper so that you can actualize this in life. And I think that's what's beautiful. And you were like, what, 20 years old when you did this? - 20, 21. And folks, anyone who thinks so, that sounds like, you know, Mike Tyson talking about Mike Tyson when he's himself talking about another person. Do it. Don't worry. Sign your stuff to yourself.

You know what I mean? Right. Just write to yourself and sign it. It's a great practice to do. You know, you are then you are then getting a third person objective view of yourself where so you will have a better chance of subjectively creating those and activating those things and having them happen.

One of the things in here, number seven, stay close to mom and family. I know there was a period, I think you said six or eight years where you pulled away from your mom. I think you're still close with your brother, but you pulled back because she was kind of loving the fame and it was making it about her as opposed to supporting her son. Yeah.

So that was something that kind of came and went and you danced with, but you know, now it seems like you guys are, you know, in a great place. She's living with us four years now. She's 91. And then also you had number eight, won an Oscar for the best actor. How do you at 20, 21, write down a goal of winning an Oscar when I think. And I wasn't even acting at that time. That's nuts. You didn't even do the first movie yet? No. Why did that come in your mind? Why was that even a thought, a dream, a goal?

So this is, I believe, right after I had soon after I had called my father said, don't want to go to law school anymore. I want to go to film school. Now, looking back. And he said a great line back to you. He said a great line. He said, don't half ass it. Don't half ass it. Yeah. Which was three or whatever, four, however many words into the best words I've ever heard from the man who I ultimately really wanted my ultimate approval from. And he didn't give me a lot more than approval with that line.

He made kicking the backside, privilege, freedom, responsibility, kick, go do it. And I suppose, I know consciously, but probably subconsciously too, there's things that I've done where I wanted to let something slide. And those words came to my mind. I was like, uh-uh, no way. That'd be half-ass, isn't it? So those words have lived with me. I decided I want to go to film school. And I went back through these journals and I find something like that. I was like,

Dude, you always wanted to be an actor. Oh, interesting. Like, you just wouldn't admit it. And I remember always being sheepish about someone going like, well, you just want to, why don't you perform? Something about it in my head felt fraudulent then. Something about being behind the camera to go to director school, learning story felt like, well, that's my...

i'll sneak in the back door to the acting right but that's the better way and i i'm glad i went that bad but i think i wanted to and i've talked with my buddy rob bendler who i bring up often in this book about it he was like yeah you were wanting to you he'd remind me of talks we'd have late night and he was already in yu film school he was like reminding me yeah you were already wanting to at this time when you first went to film school so

I write that down to myself. I'm not afraid to write down to myself, but I'm afraid to say anything like that out loud. I'm not, I'm not afraid to even say I would, I'm interested in going into acting at this point. Wow. But yet I write down, I want to, I want to win an Oscar for Best Actor. That's crazy. Wow. So when you saw this paper, you had already won. Yeah. These goals. Yeah. You know, for the first time after, I guess, close to 30 years, you'd won it, I think, I don't know, six, seven years prior to that. Yeah. Um,

What did that feel like when you read this and you saw it win an Oscar for Best Actor? I read it and I was like, "Ahhh! Are you kidding me? Get out of here! Check this out! Are you kidding me?" And then I went right back to that night. I remember sitting in the top bunk. We'd just come from the arcade, me and Monty Wills, our roommate. He was in the bottom bunk, I was in the top bunk. Like a Tuesday, Thursday night. I'd been journaling and I wrote in this little journal. I remember that night.

Other people were actually going out for a later... We'd been out kind of partying, and other people went to the next party. And I decided to come home and sort of buy it. I got off the top bunk, I compressed my teeth, went out from the shores, got in bed, got in the cover, sat up there, and I had a little window right here, and I had my little diary on the little window sill with a pen. Bunk bed. Yeah. That we made. We made these bunk beds. We were the first bunk beds in the Dell House. And pulled over and I wrote it. And I think I even...

A form of a headlamp. They even had headlamps. I loved headlamps. Still do love headlamps. And written that and I wrote that down. Curious, if you didn't create this contract for yourself, do you think you would have accomplished all 10 of these goals and dreams for your life? Or would some of them maybe fall through the cracks because you didn't create that, turn the invisible contract into a physical written contract and make it real? I don't know. I mean, I have to believe that writing them down

subconsciously led to me actually. I knew what they were. I couldn't recite it to you because I never looked at them again. But I knew what they were. Who was more influential for you, your father or mother? Both were influential at different points. My mom was there on a daily basis. My father was really influential at a really critical time where I had a summer where I played basketball when I was like 10 or 11 years old.

And a very prominent summer league in Philadelphia called the Sunny Hill League. Where my father played, my uncle played, and they were like all-time greats and all that stuff. And Bo Chamberlain played in the league. You know, Earl of the Promenade Road played in the league. And here I come playing, and I don't score one point the entire summer. Really? Not one. How old were you? 11, 10, 11. And you're playing against other 10, 11-year-olds? Uh-huh. And you didn't score once? Not one. Were you in the game? I was in the game. How did you not score? Because I was terrible. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

At 10 or 11 years old, you were that terrible. Awful. I mean, you know, and I had these big knee pads on because I was growing really fast. I had socks all the way up here. And I had like the pie top feet. Skinny, yeah. Like skinny as hell. And I scored not a free throw, not a nothing, not a lucky shot, not a breakaway layup, zero points. And I remember crying about it and being upset about it. And my father just gave me a hug and said, listen.

Whether you score zero or score 60, I'm going to love you no matter what. Wow. Now, that is the most important thing that you can say to a child. Because from there, I was like, okay, that gives me all the confidence in the world to fail. I have the security there. But to hell with that, I'm scoring 60. Let's go. Right, right. And from there, I just went to work. I stayed with it. I kept practicing, kept practicing, kept practicing.

Is that when you think the mentality of hard work started to come in for you at that age when you failed so miserably, I guess, that summer? I think that's when the idea of understanding a long-term view became important because I wasn't going to catch these kids in a week. I wasn't going to catch them in a year. So that's when I sat down and said, okay, this is going to take some thought. What do I want to work on first? Shooting. All right, let's knock this out. Let's focus on this half a year, six months, do nothing but shoot.

right after that all right creating your own shot and you focus so you start i started creating a menu of things when i came back the next summer i was a little bit better

- And then you'd be like, I've got my jump shot from 15. I've got my-- - Yeah, I got my jump shot from 15. I got my three point shot. Like just open shots, not miss open shots, right? And be able to shoot it with speed 'cause those kids are so much more athletic. And then the next time I came back, it was a little better. And the summer came back, the next time I was a little better. I scored. It wasn't much, but I scored. - This is 12, 13. - 12, 13. And then 14 came around, back half of 13, 14 years old. And then I was just killing everyone.

And it happened in two years. And I wasn't expecting it to happen in two years, but it did because what I had to do was work on the basics and the fundamentals. Well, they relied on their athleticism and their natural ability. And because I stick to the fundamentals, it just caught up to them. And then my body, you know, my knees stopped hurting. I grew into my frame and

And then your athleticism, once you have the fundamentals, the hard work, the mindset, and you tack on the athleticism, it's game over. Then it was game over. Wow. So from 13, you're...

Good average still? I was good. I was good. About the end of my third, right when I was turning 14, I became the best player in the state. At 14? At 14. So from 12 to 14, you went from scoring zero to being the best in the state of all ages. Yep. But it's simple. If you do the math on this, if you're thinking about how often kids are playing, I tell this to my daughter and my daughter's team as well that I coach. It's a simple thing of math. If you want to be a great player, if you play every single day,

two, three hours every single day or a course of a year, how much better are you getting? Most kids will play maybe, you know, an hour and a half, two days a week. Right. Put a math on that. It's not going to get it done. Get it done. Right. So if you're obsessive, obsessive, obsessively training two, three hours every single day over a year, over two years,

You're gonna accelerate. You make quantum leaps, man. Just doing a summer camp for two weeks, you see a difference. I remember playing basketball. You see it. You get a lot better. You come back more confident playing on the playground with guys who used to beat you. Yeah. And I tell the parents on my team, I said, when I say, your kids are going to become great basketball players. They're like, really? Yeah, it's not. It's math. It's it. Show up every single day. Show up every single day. Do the work.

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There's a beautiful story that I love from Jay Williams. I don't know if you remember Jason Williams. Where he did an interview a while back and he talked about how when he played you, I think the first time, or one of the first times he played against you, he was like, I'm going to show up so early to the court to warm up and practice before anyone. And he shows up at the court, I don't know if it was in LA or where it was, and you were the only one there. Already shooting free throws, already doing your fundamentals. And he goes, I'm going to stay here until Kobe leaves.

And then he was like, gosh, an hour and a half, two hours later. I got to go. I'm tired. And Kobe's still shooting free throws, scoring, like just going over the fundamentals. And he goes, and then we played that game and you were lights out. And he came up to you afterwards and said like, dude, why were you in there for so long? And how'd you do it? And he said, this is what he said. You said, I knew you were watching and I wanted to show you that I was willing to outwork you. Right. Something along those lines. Yeah. I don't know if you remember this. I remember that. You remember. Yeah. And I thought that was so powerful that.

You have this mindset, but how did you develop that? I don't know if that's what you call the Mamba mindset, but how did you develop that? And when did it start? It started in middle school and high school because a lot of the kids that I was playing against were inner city kids. And so you're looking at me as if, okay, this kid is soft.

He's from the suburbs of Philadelphia. His father played in the NBA, played professionally. He's got it easy. Got it easy. Born on second base. All this other stuff. And so it felt like they could try to be physical or try to intimidate me and do all this other stuff, which they couldn't. But now I'm saying, okay, well, you're trying to attack me. How am I going to attack you? How can I mentally figure out ways to break you down? How can I show you that, no, I have the edge?

And so that's when it first started for me is figuring out how to get the upper hand on an opponent that way. - And what would you do to mentally break people down then? - Well, I mean, you know, like we used to have an all American camp that I used to go to. And you know, at the time I first showed up, I was a sophomore. And one of the things I would do is everybody would be at the cafeteria, work, you know, eating and doing all sorts of stuff. I'd just go back to the gym. I'd just go back to the gym. - They'd be resting, eating. - And they'd see me leave.

Right. But now you're in a tough position. He's like, OK, I want to be like I'm following the kid to go work out. But I know he's working. He's up early and he's doing all this stuff. And so that was my way of showing them. Yeah. I may be on the suburbs, but you're not going to outwork me. Wow. And I'm mentally going to. Did someone teach you that? Was that just a thing that you decided, like, I'm going to get in people's minds? I think it's just it's just figuring out ways to to to be better.

and to win the game. And it started out as a defense mechanism because they were the ones talking trash to me and kid from Italy, blah, blah, blah, and all this other stuff. It was like, okay, I can't let them. I got to defend myself here, right? And then it became okay.

I'm pretty witty, I can say some pretty witty things. - And in Italian. - And in Italian, yeah, yeah. - It's interesting, I never was physically gifted to an extreme level. I was always really good, but I was never like the fastest or biggest or strongest.

But I remember my edge was I'm not going to go party and I'm not going to drink alcohol. Right. So I've never been drunk still because I was like, I need every edge when guys were out partying late at night who were better than me and drinking and showing up hungover. I was like, I'm going to be more focused and have clearer vision. And but I wasn't waking up at 4 a.m. like you. So, well, that's that's interesting because I went out when I played basketball.

One of the things that I had to learn is how to get the best out of my teammates. Yeah. And most people think it's a simple thing, passing the ball. But that's not how you make guys better. You have to really affect their behavior. How do you do that? So, you know, like I would tell guys, you got to back the backs.

I don't care if we're in Miami. I don't care if we're in a great city like Chicago. You can't go out. We got to get rest. Back-to-back games. Back-to-back games, right? Monday, Tuesday. You play Monday and you play again Tuesday. The guys aren't going to listen, right? You're right. So a few times, I said, all right, we'll all go out. We'll go out together. Really? I'll drink with you, right? But the next morning, I'm banging on your door at 5 in the morning. Let's go. They're not getting up. Where are we going? I hung out with you. Now you come hang out with me. Wow. This is what we do. All right, let's go.

And we're at the gym, we're working out, right? We hit the bus, we go to practice, we play that night. - And they're dead. - And they're dead. And they're like, "Lesson learned." - Really? - Lesson learned. - So you take them out once. - Listen, if you're gonna do that, do that.

But don't let that compromise what we're here to do. This is why we're here. This is why you're here in the first place. Yeah. Right? And if we're going to win a championship, we have to have that championship mentality and work ethic. That's it. So you got to show them, no, Kobe can do that and still has the energy to get up and do this. So either I got to meet that same energy or I got to keep my butt in my room. Go to bed early. Yeah.

Wow. What are some other things you did to rise the level of your teammates? What are some other ways you can? And what do you think people can do in general with the business team or any sports team? I think you have to listen and you have to pay attention to what your colleagues or teammates are saying.

And what are certain things that drive them, certain things that motivate them, that trigger them. And one of my favorite ones, Powell hates it every time I tell this story. He hates it. But we lost to the Celtics in 08. It was a physical series. I mean, they beat the crap out of us. Yeah. And so we go into the Olympic year that year. We wound up playing in Spain for the gold medal match. And we beat them. And so now we come back to start training camp. And Powell shows up the first day of training camp.

I had my gold medal hanging in his locker. Oh, no. And he, I mean, like the one thing that he truly, truly loves is his country. Of course. That is like everything to him. So it just drove him crazy. I said, pal, listen. He said, you're an asshole. I said, listen, pal, you lost to the Celtics.

you lost to us in a gold medal match let's not make this three in a row wow let's win this thing and that was that was it for him and he probably stepped up at a whole other level well he you know powell was a phenomenon to begin with and then for him was just stepping up to a level of physicality yeah that we needed him to get to which he did and we went on to win back-to-back championships

My man. How important is understanding human psychology and human behavior to work with a team as opposed to just relying on your gifts and talents? It's probably the most important thing. You know, when you're in this culture in our society, you can do some phenomenal things individually, but they'll never reach their full potential unless you do them collectively. And you have to figure out how to do that. And, you know, Phil Jackson was great at that. Phil, uh,

He wouldn't just coach the team or coach the game, but he'd read everything about every single player. He'd learn about your history, how you grew up, how you were raised, where were you raised. He'll read every interview and he'll learn about you and gives him a better understanding of what's motivating you, what your insecurities are.

And then it just helps him communicate with you better or even push a button here if he needs to. When did you learn that it was important to understand who your teammates are, what their likes or dislikes are? Was that in high school for you or more? No, I learned it from Phil. There was a stretch in 03 where Shaq was out with an injury.

And Phil called me up to his office and said, okay, we need you to really turn on the afterburners and start scoring more if we have to win. So I did, and I wound up scoring, I think it was nine straight games with 40 plus points. Nine straight? Nine straight games. And then Shaq comes back second to last game of that. And then Phil calls me up to his office and says, Kobe, okay, I need you to dial it back. I'm like,

Why? Like we're winning. I don't understand. It's because our goal is to win a championship. And we can get through the Western Conference with you playing this way. But in the East, you know, we can dominate them inside with Shaq in the post. But if you continue to do this, we'll lose Shaq. We'll lose him. His motivation, his excitement. What triggers him, right? So I need you to pull back so we can pull Shaq forward for June. And I just looked at him like,

this smart dude. Wow. Yeah. Smart dude, man. So I pulled, pulled it back. Wow. Yeah. What do you think what's been, uh, the greatest challenge you've had since leaving the game? The greatest challenge. Um, I think it's, you know, you won an Oscar, you're, you're launching podcasts and shows and you got a book coming out. Yeah. But it's, it's, uh, it's different though. Like, you know, um, we were just talking about it here in the office the other day. Um,

When you play the game, you hit a game winning shot, you miss a shot, the reaction's there. You can see how people are responding to it. You can feel it. The energy is there. What I do now, you don't. I don't see how people are affected by deer basketball or creating the punies and you put it out there. I wish I could

see a car ride of a family the first time their daughter hears Lily's Lemonade and what she's doing, you know, she's singing along to it. That's not there. Right. So that's the challenge. That's the one thing that I miss is being able to feed off of the energy. The instant feedback you get from missing or scoring a shot, winning or losing a game. It's like either way you're getting a result. Right. Yes. Yes.

Yes, that's the one thing. I spent a lot of time with mentors as well up at Pixar and Disney Studios. They've been absolutely wonderful animation, Disney animation. And I talked to them about Frozen and Moana and how kids love them. And they're always like, oh, that's awesome. And they want to hear it because they don't ever get a chance to truly see it. Not sit in the movie theater? No, no. And they don't have time to go to Disneyland and walk around the park and see how many...

Families are enjoying the content that they've created because they're busy making the next one. Creating. Yes. Yes. So that's the one thing.

What do you think the biggest challenge is for most athletes after they retire? I think it's the fear of starting anew. And that was certainly present for me as well. Really? Yeah. Like identity, you mean? Well, it's starting from scratch, right? Because when you play for 20 years, I played for 20 years, you reach a certain level. You're like, okay, wait a minute. I have to start again at the base of a mountain and try to climb the top of this mountain. First of all, what mountain am I climbing? I don't even know what the hell am I going to be doing?

It's very scary. It's very scary. - Even for you? - Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And the thing that helped me actually was hurting my Achilles because that forced me to sit there and say, "Okay, the day could be today that your career is over." - At any time when you were playing, you mean, yeah. - Now what do you do? You have these ideas about doing something with your life after basketball.

But what if today is the day that you, that's it. Now what do you do? So I had all this time sitting there with my Achilles injury and contemplating and thinking. And I said, I better get to work. Wow. That was that. What was the vision for you afterwards then? Was it to do what you're doing now? Did you have other ideas or what is, what's the vision? I struggled with it at first because the first question I asked, which is the wrong question is what's the biggest industry I can get into?

Was it more money thinking or money thinking, saying, OK, athletes are saying you can't make more revenue when you retire. This is your source of your income is here. So, OK, that's a challenge. What can I do? And I remember going to launch a fund or something. I did. I did. And so I started I went for a ride and I said, OK, stop thinking of it that way. You're thinking of it the wrong way. Why did you start playing basketball? Because I loved it. What do you love to do?

Oh, I love to tell stories. All right, let's do that. And then that's where it started for me. And then on top of that, it became things like we started learning more about the financial industry and about players going broke once they retire and saying, OK, how can I how can I minimize the chances of that happening? What are things that I can do to invest my money smartly?

also help control some of that outcome to a certain extent. And that's what I called Mike Rapoli. Mike Rapoli was an entrepreneur who built Vitamin Water, Pirate's Booty, and some other companies and started learning from them.

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storytelling is something you're really passionate about. What's a story over your life that's been a constant theme that you go back to? Is there something you heard as a kid that really resonates with you or a book or a movie that just feels like this is me? Yeah, that's funny. Movies, there are plenty, but there's a quote from one of my English teachers at Lower Merion named Mr. Fisk. He had a great quote that said, rest at the end, not in the middle. And that's something I always live by.

I'm not gonna rest, I'm gonna keep on pushing now. There are a lot of answers that I don't have, even questions that I don't have, but I'm just gonna keep going. I'm just gonna keep going and I'll figure these things out as we go, right? And you just continue to build that way. So I try to live by that all the time. - Rest at the end. - Rest at the end. - What's the question that eats you alive the most that you haven't answered yet?

The question that eats me alive that I haven't answered yet. You're still looking for the answer. I'm still looking for the answer. How to tell a good story. I don't think anybody has that answer. You know, like when I sat down to write Dear Basketball, I was like, okay, what do I want to say? And, you know, you have certain acts and how you can structure certain things, right? The ebbs and flows of story. Certain formulas that have been there since the beginning of time.

but it's such an exact. - So challenging, yeah. - Right? And so that one question is really interesting. - Why do you want to tell a great story? - I think stories is what moves the world. Whether it's an inspirational story, it's an informational one.

Nothing in this world moves without story. You know, being from the political world, sports world, nothing that we have moves without story. And so I think that is the root of everything. And if we're going to try to make the world a better place, story is the right place to start.

You were the epitome of the tough, strong bodybuilder football guy for a long time. And you portrayed this image in movies, TV and all these different things. Why do you feel like you had that anger inside of you? And when did you realize that you needed to let it go? Well, wow, that's a great, great question, man. You know, for me,

My world was designed around competition. Growing up in Flint, Michigan, it was in the middle when the auto industry imploded, I was around 10 years old and then the crack epidemic happened at the same time. So you're talking about a double whammy on a city.

And so it was very violent, you know, lots of crime, lots of drugs, lots of gangs, lots of

Powerlessness is what I like to call it because people felt powerless, especially me. OK, because you couldn't do anything about it. You know, one thing that people didn't know or forgot is around that time in the city, there would be smokestacks around the city and what they were doing were burning foreign cars.

And I remember just seeing you walk to school and you go across a parking lot in this factory and they'd be burning a car and effigy and throwing rocks at it. And, you know, we ain't going to have them damn, you know, Toyotas up in here, you know, because it was foreign. And it just hit me about how, you know, the problem was the city was very resistant to change.

But change is inevitable. And this is what I was going through. But it was also about competition. It was always about, okay, it's got to be me versus this dope man. It's got to be me versus this gang initiation that they're trying to bring me into. It's got to be me versus, you know, the grown men in my neighborhood and in my area that were always challenging me as a young man. So...

you had to come up and it made me very mad. Really? And growing up with an alcoholic father on top of all that. Big Terry. Big Terry. You know, I was little Terry. He was big Terry. And, you know, one of my earliest memories is him knocking my mother out. And I was like, got it, man. You run the world right now until I do. Ooh. I'm going to tell you, man. How old were you then? Oh, I was five. Oh, man. I was five. But I have to tell you, I...

One of the things I knew that my desire to get strong and my desire to have power and to be really, really just... I was obsessed with muscle, even as a little kid, because I knew one day I might have to kill my father. Oh, my gosh. He was that dude. Wow. He was just... He was unending, never bending, just...

constant intimidation. You know what I mean? Like fear, intimidation. You just didn't, you know, you didn't, you never felt comfortable. You never felt like he, he accepted you. You always felt like something was wrong. You doing it wrong. You didn't iron your pants enough. You didn't do something enough. You didn't clean enough. You just felt always inadequate.

And that was the mindset of a lot of men in that culture, in the city at the time I was growing up. And it wasn't going to let you, they weren't going to let you off easy. But when you ask them questions, they would never answer. Why not? I don't know. See, that blew my mind because I was like, OK, just just tell me what you want. One day you're going to find out. Let me tell you one day, one day you'll get it.

And you're like, but I'm 12. Can you give me a clue? And man, it was, I mean, it was only after I grew up when I realized that they didn't know. So that was a kind of a cop out. But it made me, I had a vow with my best friend and we were about 13, 14 years old.

because this was such a big problem. Like his dad would never talk to him. - Really? - My dad would never talk to me. And the older adults wouldn't tell, you know, they would, only thing they would tell you about is how to be a pimp. You know, like, man, you want two or three girls, let me tell you how to do it. You know, this is the game you gotta run. And you're like, that's the only thing they would volunteer. But any of the other life stuff, like, what does this mean?

What does life mean? What's the true meaning of this? Right. You ain't getting that. Go to church for that. And the whole concept with a lot of men in that world was that if you're scared, go to church. Like, you know, church was for scared people. Interesting. You know what I mean? Like, no, no, we're too tough for that, you know. And what was so wild is we made a vow. And we made a vow, me and my best friend, that, you know, we would, I said, if you find out something before I do,

Promise me that you'll tell me and if I find out anything that you need to know before you do I'll tell you and we literally shook on it. I'll never forget it Wow, I'll never forget the day we did it. Did you guys start telling each other advice? We were just trying to find out stuff like oh man check this out about this is in school and this is this and this is this will get you to this level and man we gotta start working out and man we gotta do this, you know, because we were just alone. Yeah, and

I mean, this was in the early days of even fitness. Yeah. There was no information on fitness really about how to build your muscles. No. No, we would get, I remember ordering the books at the back of comic books. Did you ever get sand kicked in your face? And, you know, and I would get this little book and it had like drawings of people exercising.

And then you had an old exerciser thing that was like a, it looked like a bow, like a bow and arrow. And then you would just push it together and had a string and you just do that. It was like primitive, but we were like eating anything up just to improve our lives. And it was a really, the competitive culture created in me this thing. And when we talk about rage,

What we're talking about is an attempt to control things you can't control. Because what couldn't you control at that time? Outside, I just looked and it was like I had to do what everyone told me. And, you know, my father was addicted to alcohol, but my mother was addicted to religion. And he despised that, you know, because, again, it was weak to him.

- But she was living in fear. - And she was living in fear. And so she's like, "Hey, we gotta run under the protection of the church." But it was a, basically it was a Christian cult. I grew up in a church called the Church of God and Christ.

And it was so, it was what you would call holy roller. You know, it was a lot of speaking in tongues and a lot of music and shouting and bawling out and people running around and the whole thing. And I remember just feeling like I wanted that. I wanted to be close to that. Like I said, okay, this is what God is.

But I never felt it. Like I was going, when is it going to take me? Because I would see everybody jumping and running and shouting. And they were like, well, you just got to feel it. And I was like, but I don't feel it.

And no one would tell me what was going on. I mean, no one. My mother, my people in the church, I would be asking like, "When do you know how this feels? Like, is it supposed to grab you?" And they were like, "Oh, if you don't..." Let me tell you, the day it freaked me out is when my pastor looked at me and he said, "You don't feel nothing. You must not have nothing." - Ooh, man, that's not fair.

So it's like forces you to try to act like you feel something to fit in or belong or... Oh, yeah. And now I'm bad. Oh, man. And so I learned real quick. I said, man, you got to have two lives. You got to be this way in church. You got to be this...

I mean, my father and mother fought constantly because of that. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it was all about, listen, everything that I do now, I couldn't do as a kid. I couldn't play sports. I couldn't go to secular movies. I couldn't listen to secular music. I couldn't dance. I couldn't do anything. When I say nothing, I mean, I remember I was like, what can I do? And they were like, sit down and shut up is what you can do. Wow. And what I would do.

is listen to kids at school talk about the movies. They would talk about all the stuff that they saw and all this stuff. And I remember going home and drawing what I thought the movie was about. And that's where my art ability came. I mean, it was hours of like imagining what this movie was. How old were you when you started drawing and being, you know? I was probably...

Probably six, seven years old. But I remember kids talking about things that I couldn't experience. Did anyone teach you how to draw? I learned off comic books. You're so talented. I've seen your stuff. But see, you got to understand. And then you would kind of mimic what you're... Exactly. Any comic book or anything I saw, I would just try to... And let me tell you, I had the most frustrating experiences because...

nothing would look the same. And it was a desire for me to make things extremely real. And I wanted it to really come to life. And what would happen is I would be satisfied with the drawing. Like, oh man, this is good. And then I go to bed and wake up and it would look bad again. And you're talking about this for a young kid. And then it just continued where this drive and this whole thing, because it had to look better than this. And it's got to look better than yours. When you're talking about a world of competition, right?

It created this excuse for your age. You know what I mean? And now, I'm going to tell you, man, what happened for me, and especially once I hit my teen years, I started living my life like I was in a revenge movie. Trying to get back at everyone, everything, the world, your dad. Remember the vow I made with my best friend? I made a lot of vows.

And I vowed that I was going to get every person who ever doubted me, who ever insulted me, who ever made me feel slightly uncomfortable. I was going to get you back and I was going to show you. Now, let me tell you something. That is a recipe for tremendous success.

You understand what I mean? Like people expect you, oh no, it's going to fall. No. And also a lack of fulfillment, a lack of joy, a lack of peace inside of you. Now. Because I was so similar. You see what I mean? I wanted to prove everyone wrong and I accomplished all these goals and I was like, but why am I still unfulfilled and angry? Listen. Why am I so angry? You get a lot done. A lot.

A lot. Man, you're obsessed. I had extra energy. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, I would work out. You got to understand, man, I would go in, I remember, I would do this stuff where I would go work out and then I would work out until I couldn't move. And then I would rest up and then I would go and I would flex my muscles until they cramped.

and i would force my muscles into cramps it was it was sadistic it was masochistic yeah but i said no one i want this like i will never stop doing sit-ups i will never say i would you know again i sit up some push-ups until my stomach till i was curled over in tears oh my gosh and then i go do more because i said no one's going to beat me wow never ever

ever beat me. And listen, understand this man, you know what's so crazy? I didn't even like football. - Really? - Didn't like it at all, but it was my way out of Flint. It was also my way to code black. This is what I mean. - To code what? - Code black. Meaning in the black culture, sports coded like hardcore. - Success. - And it was the way the drug dealers, the gang members,

Everybody would leave you alone if they knew you were an athlete. Why is that? Because they said, this man, he might go somewhere. He might do something. He might be, because you got to understand, walking to school, here they come. I had to fight my way into school because it was like, who do you think you are? Okay. Oh, Mr. Smart. You smart now, huh? And you're like, man, why you talk so white?

So what I did, I remember developing a whole nother personality when I was on the street. Ah man, what's up man? Ah, you know, I don't even, you know me, yeah boy. And I would mimic that just so I could fit in. You have ideas, you had goals, you had things you wanted and all of a sudden you knew, you didn't dumb down. Wow.

they were like wait man who you who who you think you are remember everything's a competition yeah so you think you're smarter than me no man oh no i'm just but here i was this artist drawing really trying to excel had ideas had visions of being a creative person playing music too right yeah i was a flautist that's crazy i hit that i was able to do that in church however man

But see, this is another thing about the religion thing, which was nuts, is that, you know,

Here I was just, you know, I was a pleaser. I became a pleaser. It was like, all right, please, my mom, whatever, please, the alcoholic dad, whatever you want, here's another beer, whatever. And my mother, what I decided was I was going to be the best, you know, kid in the church. But then my church was a cult. It was crazy because a lot of it didn't make any sense.

And it really hit the fan when my pastor, you know, we found out my pastor was selling drugs and using drugs out of the pulpit. He had several girlfriends in the church. I mean, everything imploded, you know, and everyone thought this guy who was so upstanding, you know, because this thing, even with religion, is that.

Everybody starts out with great intentions. And then power and success and money and people praising you. You got to learn to really stay humble in the face of success or fame. Exactly. How have you managed that? I mean... For a long time, I didn't. Really? I'm just being real. There's two Terry Cruises and there's two experiences. You know...

The competitive Terry Crews was not humble. The competitive Terry Crews would look humble so that you could be lulled into sleep so that I could destroy you. Wow. I'm just telling you, man. When was this up until? Oh, my God. I mean, we're talking 2010. Okay, wow. You know...

And I was an intense dude, man. You got to understand. I knew. I said, this is how I work. You were intense or still? I'm still intense. I'm still intense. But I'm at a different level of intensity. In a different way. You know? My thing was, man, I knew how to manipulate. Really? What was the strategy? Well, I would look at whatever scene it was and what the rules were.

And I knew how to play the game. Wow. But it was always to beat people. To one-up, to be number one, to be a little bit better than. Always. I mean, it got me to the NFL. Of course. I mean, dude, it goes a long way. Like I said, I didn't even like football. But that way of life, the NFL was like, come here. We like you. Right. You know what I mean? Oh, you're going to be good. You know, they say, the phrase I heard before is that, um,

you know, the best soldiers know how to check their morality, like to the side, like keep it away because you're a good soldier. Don't think about what's right or wrong. Don't really get that out of your psyche. What's good and bad. And now, yeah, now you can do whatever we need. And I determined that I was going to be that dude, like whatever it took. And you got to understand-

is that this kind of mindset is very rewarded. - Of course. - It's very, you know, I was tough. I was in this rage, but also I could turn it on to the point where I could beat people up. Like I could start, I started to defend myself. You know, I got from being a little kid to being a big teenager to being, to, you know, what they say, he's got a little neck.

You know what I mean? Like when you get some traps and you're like, whoa, okay. Gang members think twice. You know what I mean? They're like, all right. Because again, everything's a challenge, right? To an exhausting level. Was there ever a point where you felt like you were strong enough and big enough to beat up your dad? Well, I did. How old were you? I was 30 years old. Really? I... You gotta understand the context of what happened. My father...

You know, I was already I just started my acting career and I just got a show. It was a TV show called Battle Dome. I retired from the NFL. And again, I was about 29, 30 years old. I was 30 years old. So I took my family home for Christmas and I told my father to flip back to Flint from L.A. And I told my father, do not.

Act up and because this is the thing about holidays for alcoholics. Oh man, it's it's the worst man I mean they go right back It's all the bad memories and they need to placate and they need to medicate with alcohol And I said man look my kids have never seen this My kids never came up in this and at the time I had three girls and I said dude do not act up Okay, he said no I ain't gonna do nothing man. Ain't no wrong with you. You know, I don't know what you're talking about. So I

I take him home and we all over there. Everything's going fine. My wife and I are headed to Detroit to hang out with some friends. So it's about a 45 minute drive. We're about 10 minutes into the drive and I get this call from my aunt. And she's like, Terry, your father hit your mother. Oh, I said, what? Oh, man. And what happened? He knocked her tooth sideways. It was hanging out of her mouth. And I mean, he hit her right in the mouth.

And then I found out, Lewis, he did it in front of my kids. Oh, no. And they were all privy to this. Something that I vowed. Your trigger went in deep. I said, take the kids over to Ann's house. I said, just leave them there. I dropped my wife off. I drove over to the house. And I'm looking at him. And I met with him. I'm like, hey, dude, didn't I tell you? And he was like, oh, man. And I mean, wow.

let me tell you something man i don't know how long the beating happened oh my gosh i don't know because you black out i black out and when you get to that level of rage i know that feeling you don't feel anything you don't think anything it's a you know what even oh i'm getting it's it's just thinking about it it was so like because all i could remember was being like five years old and and feeling so weak and powerless as he was doing this to my mother

And we just had to take it. I was like, I can't. What can I do? Right. He's a giant. Yeah. You know what I mean? I can't do anything. And man, now I'm 30 years old. You're big. You're strong. I'm posted. I fell. I've never had an injury. I'm ready to go. And you've got 30 years of pent up rage. 30 years. And resentment. And I beat his ass all over that house. And Louis, let me tell you, man.

At the end, I thought this was it. I thought, this is the revenge I've been waiting for. I told you not to do it. This is it. Now you're going to get everything for all Terry Crews is going to blast you. And when I was done, I remember I beat him from the bottom, all the way to the bottom of the house, all the way up to his room because he was trying to run from me. Oh, my gosh.

And he ran into his room and I bust the door down, man. And I kept beating him, right? He's on the ground in tears, bleeding, tears, the whole thing. I'm sitting on his bed, just looking at my hands and I'm like, "I'm just like you." It didn't work. It didn't work, man. It was supposed to work. What were you hoping to feel? I mean, release. Like, there it is. I said it right. You're supposed to feel justice.

You're supposed to feel like this is this. Now the score has been settled. And when I say living life like a revenge movie, I mean it. But you have to understand that stuff is better than sex. Right. You look at a movie like that. You're like, man, yes. Get them back one at a time. Like, yes. And here I was. I was living it. I was like, this is man on fire live. You know what I'm saying? This is like get back city. This is a payback. And I was like, nothing.

Nothing. And I was like, I'm done. And I left. And I never went home for 10 years. Really? 10 years. And my mom went right back to him. Didn't change any of the home situation. Didn't fix not one thing. And I just remember going through all these issues and all this stuff like, oh my God, I lost it, man. And I couldn't go home. I couldn't even deal with it.

And that was the thing that I said, that rage, it was uncontrollable. But I took it out on other people. And I never, like, even though I didn't beat him up again and didn't go back home, that rage was still in me. It's still inside of you. And I was doing that to various people in the street. There's a long list of people.

who'd been knocked out by me. And what's so crazy is that a lot of people go, "Oh no, Terry, no. "You're funny and you're so nice." My wife would be like, "Y'all don't even know. "Y'all have no idea." - He wasn't so nice back then. - 'Cause I could flip. - Of course. - Oh no, you have to understand, being two people,

and learning how to manipulate and move, you know, that's why it would shock everybody. - Right, 'cause you could be the lovable, fun, energetic, passionate guy, but if there was a wound that was being triggered, the other day it came out. - It would be a nuclear bomb. - Yeah.

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