2/18/25: Milei Caught In Crypto Scam, Steve Bannon Dire Trump Warning, MAGA War On Elon Baby Mama Drama
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At the same time, we got to take a look at an insane crypto shitcoin scandal sweeping Argentina and ensnaring personalities here in the United States like Dave Portnoy. It's called Libra. Let's go ahead and put this one up there on the screen. So Javier Millay, the literal president of Argentina, has been ensnared in this meme coin scandal, Libra, after promoting it on social media. Boy,

When he promoted the Libra coin on social media, within, quote, five hours, over $4.4 billion of market cap was erased in a classic pump and dump scheme where it went from basically worth nothing to a couple of dollars worth of coin, where insiders were able to have a rug pull, were able to sell for hundreds of millions of dollars by their own advantage.

mission, several secret insiders and others who are involved. The tale is traced back to some American citizens, it seems, and other shady characters, one of whom, the person who appears, do you want to help me with any of this? Appears, Mr. Hayden, who...

orchestrating this entire thing behind the scenes. But what's unclear to me is how many other people are involved with his firm. It's like his father and his brother and their secret investors. Coffee Zilla, a friend of our show, interviewed them. But anything you want to fill in before we get to it? This dude is one of, he describes him, Coffee describes him as one of the big four creators of Libra. Now, he tries to say in this interview with Coffee, like, oh, I was just like, you know, making the decisions on behalf of, I'm not really the guy.

I'm like taking all the heat, but I'm not really the guy. But he also, you know, he cops to a lot in this interview, including this just very nihilistic view of effectively, well, these are all scams and I'm just getting mine. And if you're you're just pissed off because you're not an insider and you're not the one who's getting cash in these meme coin scam pump and dump. So I truly recommend you watch this entire interview if you have any interest in the subject, because he really does admit

to the whole thing. Yes, he does. He really does admit to the whole scheme in this interview with Coffey. Yeah, so let's get to actually that insider quote in particular where Coffeyzilla presses him on the structure of all this. Let's take a listen. The idea of insiders to me is always bullshit because every meme coin I've ever known or invested in or been a part of, like,

The people that benefit are the people that know – like the people that benefit the most are the people that structure the deal similar to any other business in the world. People that are closest normally make the most money or lose the most money, one of the two.

So I don't, I think that's a bit of bullshit. And that's just like crypto people that are angry that they're like, there's always an unfair, there's an unfair advantage if you're a genius on chain and you know how to game the system on Meteora. And there's 30 guys in the world that know how to do that better than anybody.

So it's like, wait, there's unfair games, right? There's people who know everything about stocks. You can be Warren Buffett, but there's a difference between being Warren Buffett and being a guy with insider knowledge on like Pfizer pharmaceutical and trading on your insider knowledge. So I think the frustration is people are frustrated that not that you're good at trading, but that you knew something, know what the public didn't know. And you traded on that information, which in the public markets, it would be illegal. It would be insider trading.

Right. But on meme coins, A, it's not. And B, that's what happens on every single deal. I mean, every KOL, every single one globally, that's how their main money gets made. They know about a deal. They agree to a deal.

And then they make money on the deal. So KOL is key opinion leader. I've had to learn that from all of this crypto bullshit. And the thing is about Hayden is he's one of the most honest brokers in this entire thing in that he's an honest crook. There are text messages and others that have come out from Hayden being like, yeah, let's just pull it all. Let's pull as much as we can out of these idiots. And we were debating this before the show.

I'm of a couple of minds. To be honest, at this point, if you invest your money in a meme coin or a shit coin, I don't feel bad for you and you're an idiot and you deserve to lose your money because every single person who is involved in this should know at this point that the structure is always the same.

You have the insiders who hold like 20 to 30%. In this case, it was like 80% of the coins within Libra. You have some guy like Javier Millay do the pumping of the classic, like, hey guys, check this out. Here's the contract address so you can all get involved. And then the people who got in at the beginning sell, not necessarily at the top, but they sell once...

It's exploded. They take a tidy profit, and you're the person left holding the bag. But in general, the people who are doing this, from what I can tell, based on Portnoy and all the other Robin Hood bro day traders and others, they're just trying to do that to other people. They're just the ones who are caught before. They're the ones caught holding the bag because they were not insider or fast enough to be able to sell the contract. I think it's despicable and it's disgusting behavior on the part of Hayden Davis. But the honesty behind it is one which belies so much of American politics.

financial life at this time that I have a hard time at this point feeling bad for a single person that's involved. Well, but the thing is that, you know, Hayden Davis in his interview was like, yeah, it's all a scam and only the insiders make money and that's the whole game. But that is not the way that they portray these coins at the time. I mean, there's a reason why, so we've mentioned Portnoy, so Portnoy,

is brought into this. They originally, they told him about beforehand and gave him millions of tokens in order to promote it. He gave back the tokens, but he did buy in with his own money and I think posted about it as well. And the thing is that they take advantage of the fact that there is so little institutional trust

And what people have instead is these parasocial relationships with like trusted creators and personalities. So they use these celebrity endorsers to make it feel like, oh, well, Kim Kardashian or Dave Portnoy or the freaking Hawk to a Girl or Javier Mala.

the president of Argentina, who is an icon for many of the libertarian right, including Elon Musk, the man that's running our government right now, well, they back it. So it must be real. When Javier Millay is posting about this, he's not saying this is a scam. I'm getting mine or

you know, the insiders are getting theirs. He's saying this is a phenomenal opportunity for you to get wealthy and also for people to invest in Argentina's small business creators, blah, blah, blah. So people are getting lied to and they're getting taken advantage of. And, you know, it is the case.

that whatever you have actually, number one, big technological transitions, which is we're in the midst of, and also breakdown in institutional trust, it becomes a golden age of scam artists. And we have never seen, like in world history, we have never seen scams on the size of what these crypto meme coin rug pull scams are on a routine basis.

And one of the things that's important to note here is that these same characters, some of the same characters who are behind this

crypto pump and dump with the backing of Javier Mollet were also involved with the Melania coin launch, which also has lost, plummeted and lost the vast majority of its value, leaving almost all of the retail investors completely high and dry. Coffee asked Hayden this question directly. He's reluctant to answer, but ultimately he does answer. Let's take a listen to that. A lot of people have linked you to the Melania launch.

And that is a big question on everyone's mind, mine especially, which is were you part of the Melania launch and was that sniped as well? I mean, look, I think that – I mean I told you like beforehand before this started. I mean I'm happy to share the truth, but I mean you're asking a question that's –

It's just, I mean, I'll answer, but it's factually going to put me into a lot of danger, which is fine. I'll answer. I was part of it. I think the team did want to snipe it because of how big the snipe was on Trump's. And we weren't the, we definitely weren't the big sniper. We were not the, that's what we were trying to avoid. Yeah.

And we didn't make any there was no money made from the Melania team on any we didn't take any liquidity out zero. Okay. Wow.

That's shocking news. But I want to zoom in on that point. You said, well, we didn't take any liquidity out. One of the wallets we traced to the Portnoy thing, the Portnoy thing, your wallet, or I don't know if it's your wallet, whoever's wallet that was, sent money to a wallet which had like, got sent $1.5 million of Melania token from something called Melania...

dash liquidity to dot soul and then that wallet seemed to sell Melania tokens that it received for free so you said y'all didn't sell any liquidity but I didn't didn't swap liquidity didn't swap liquidity didn't swap into single-sided I didn't say there was no there was no money sold there's a difference between swapping the liquidity and selling liquidations those are two different things

Okay, so you all swapped. You didn't sell or the other way around. No, other way around. Other way around. Sold, you didn't swap. Yeah. Still don't 100% what he's saying. He's a little bit lost on me. I think I was reading about there's a way you can pull out just the cash and leave like the token in, which tries to maintain the market so that people don't see that you're just completely selling out and tanking it. Got it.

And I think he's saying we didn't do that when they're talking about sniping. So you can imagine if you know the coin is about to drop and nobody else knows, you buy it immediately. And so part of the other. So he admits not only is involved with Melania and with Libra, the Javier Malay one, that he was part.

of this market manipulation tactic of sniping where you buy a bunch at the beginning, you pump it up, and then what happened both with Melania and in the case of Libra is then once the market sort of hits the top, you start selling out. The whole thing crashes, and that's what makes it a rug pull. Now, he claims, oh, we weren't the biggest snipers on Melania, and we saw with Trump that there were all these people that got in that were market manipulated, so we didn't want, you know, we didn't want to be left out, basically, of the fun. So...

So he admits that they engage in this market manipulation with the Melania coin and with the Libra coin. And it's just incredible.

Well, there was more fraud and scams all around. It was more on Trump that they admitted to the insider trading aspect of people being told at that crypto ball here in Washington about some of that. Let's take a listen. You kind of were like, hey, people should think about these things. What should they think about from your perspective? Like what what is going on on the inside? Yeah, I think the best one to look at, like from because I know like like both money was raised and the most amount of money was made was on Trump.

I think that's the best example, just being honest. Because you know that, right? You know that people were able to buy in at $500 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like people snipe that coin too, you mean? No, no, no, no, no. Before it launched at some private dinner, they gave people special access to buying it at $500 million. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who gave that? That was what I was told. There were people at some sort of crypto event in Washington, D.C.,

I don't know if that's true, but if that's true, that's what I was told. That's what I was told, by the way. See, that was the biggest one to me, about the $500 million buy-in to the Trump shitcoin that was posted immediately after Trump became president, leading to the immediate sell-off and all that. We don't have a ton of time because we have a guest standing by. But it's like I said, at a certain point, I don't feel bad for these people anymore.

Every single person involved from Portnoy to Hayden Davis to any of these others, people who are buying in, the 75,000 or so people who bought in. It's like, look, you guys were trying to do a get-rich-quick stream and you got burned. It's like, well, you know, listen, idiots. The path to wealth is out there. You can buy S&P 500. People don't want to do that. They want to do single-game parlays.

and do all of this, it's like, well, you get what you deserve at a certain point. What's the point? Stupid people deserve protection too, Sagar. Honestly, no. This is a capitalist country. You have the right to go bust. They're taking advantage of the trust that people have in a Dave Portnoy, in a Javier Millay, in these other creators and influencers. That's why they get these Twitch streamers and whatever to promote these things. They're taking advantage of that trust.

and they're scamming people and ripping them off. And I think it should be illegal. I think it should be, I think it's really wrong. I think it should be completely, I mean, these things are just brazen Ponzi schemes. I don't even understand how it is legal. Yeah, but they keep buying it. It is such an open pyramid scheme. That's all it is. There is no value here. It's just this imaginary bullshit thing pumped up by, uh,

whatever influencer or president of the United States or first lady of the United States or president of Argentina. So I find it just the whole thing to be so dystopian, so grotesque, should be illegal. And I don't really understand how it's not. But, you know, people like Hayden Davis, they're getting rich. Well, on the president's side, I couldn't agree with you.

Yeah.

And he claims he really didn't know and he claims he didn't benefit from it. But this president here certainly did know and did benefit from it, et cetera. Even if you take Marley's explanation at face value, considering all of the recent just two-month track record of Hawk to a Trump shit coin, Melania, and all of this, why would you ever put your fingers on any of this stuff? Do you have no judgment like up here? It sounds like why do I have better judgment than you? Correct.

That's my thing is how do you expect ordinary people to be more savvy about this than, you know, the freaking president of Argentina who is like a global celebrity now in these libertarian circles? I just I don't know what to do in a society where people are desperate to legalize get rich quick. Like we're talking about sports betting. They want to be ripped off. That's what you every single time that people use a sports betting app, you're going to lose in the long run. If you're a winner, they'll just ban you.

People, I was just talking earlier today, Mark Cuban's got a new credit card out there secured by your car equity. Amazing. 30% APR. People are signing up left and right for key locks and balloon loans and all this shit. But the answer with sports betting isn't to make it more unregulated. The answer, as you laid out in the big monologue you did, is to make it more unregulated.

more regulated. - Yeah, but they don't want that. People don't want that. - It's to put the guardrails on and make sure that people are actually protected so they're not losing their whole life savings and killing themselves in the worst of circumstances or having their entire life ruined, et cetera. It's not to just be like, well, laissez faire, I guess let's just let everybody get screwed. - No, if you put it to the ballot box, it would pass by 80% to make it, they wanna make it even easier to place bets. They wanna place bets on every play, every touchdown. - Some people, yes. - That's what they want. - I'm not sure.

how it would fare at the ballot box, I'm not sure about. But sports gambling is at least somewhat regulated. This is, you know, he's just admitting brazenly like insider trading and manipulation or whatever. I don't think

I don't think he's going to face any legal trouble. I actually do think he'll face legal trouble because he admitted to literal insider trading. Now, under the current SEC regime and all of that, it's possible at the same time. The whole reason they're there is to let guys like this steal your money. See, I actually disagree because if you're a crypto person, they're the real crypto insiders, the Bitcoin ETF guys, the Winklevine, all that. They hate these meme coins, shit coins stuff because it makes them look bad because they want more integration into the legitimate financial system. Because their shit is not really any different.

I don't think that's true. That's what Hayden Davis says. No, that's not true. He's talking about meme coins. We're not talking about a Bitcoin ETF. No, we talked about Bitcoin specifically in this interview as well. It's not even remotely the same. Last notes before we wrap this up. Number one, important, Portnoy got paid his money back. Yes, that's right. I mean, at least he admitted it. So you guys got screwed, but don't worry. Hayden Davis made sure to make Portnoy whole. And yes, they did disclose it and it's out in the open, but that is grotesque because Dave Portnoy has plenty of money.

He's going to be just fine, but they made sure to make him whole. OK. And then the other thing is that Javier Malay is actually they're looking at like impeachment and charging him with corruption and fraud, whatever. I don't know if any of that goes anywhere. I have no idea. You know, Argentine justice system, et cetera. But this has been a massive political scandal for him. I don't think there's any doubt about it.

about that. This has been a big problem for him because the very people who were hurt the most by this were the biggest believers in him. And it was just such a brazen scam that, yeah, I think it is a genuine political problem for him in Argentina. That is correct. I looked this morning at how the Argentine press is covering it, but I have no idea. It's not like they have the greatest track record in terms of

their judicial system. That's right, though, about Portnoy. It's absolutely, I mean, he disclosed it. He's like, yeah, he paid me back five million or whatever, but that just gives you some insight. So listen, if you're out there and you're watching a Twitch stream and somebody's trying to encourage you to buy a meme coin, but I know nobody will listen. What's the point? It's like, enjoy your shit coins and enjoy your single game parlay.

Yeah. I'm going to keep my money in the S&P 500. When the Trump thing launched, you saw so many, oh, we're all getting rich, blah, blah, blah. Like people bought the, just don't, guys, just don't. Hayden Davis told you, the only people who make money are the insiders. They're just trying to fool you and rip you off. Please stay away. Same with the sports gambling companies. The only people making money are FanDuel and DraftKings. Their stock is up by 12% in the last month off the Super Bowl. Thanks for your coinage money. That's the only thing that they're telling you.

Ready to celebrate the magic of live music? South by Southwest Music Festival returns to Austin, Texas this March 10th through the 15th with a fresh lineup of legendary and rising talent. Join a global community of music lovers, artists, industry professionals, and creatives at the 2025 South by Southwest Music Festival.

With hundreds of showcasing artists performing across six days in over 50 venues, Discovery is right around the corner at South by Southwest. Explore the lineup at SXSW.com.

It's time to put America first when it comes to spectrum airwaves. Dynamic spectrum sharing is an American innovation developed to meet American needs, led by American companies and supported by the U.S. military who use the spectrum to defend the homeland. It maximizes a scarce national resource, wireless spectrum, to protect national security and deliver greater competition and lower costs without forcing the U.S. military to waste $120 billion relocating critical defense systems.

America won't win by letting three big cellular companies keep U.S. spectrum policy stuck in the past, hoarding spectrum for their exclusive use to limit competition here at home while giving Chinese companies like Huawei and ZTE a big leg up overseas. For America to lead, federal policymakers must build on the proven success of U.S. spectrum sharing to ensure national security, turbocharge domestic manufacturing, rural connectivity, and create American jobs. Let's keep America at the forefront of global wireless leadership. Learn more at SpectrumFuture.com.

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Very fortunate to be joined this morning by April Verrett. She is the president of the SEIU. They've been involved in a number of actions against this current government and their illegal behavior. Great to see you, April. Welcome.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. So we can put this first tear sheet up on the screen. I know you all have been involved in some of the lawsuits about accessing data at Department of Labor, at HHS, at CFPB, also at the Treasury. Just talk to us a little bit about your thinking and your decision to get involved in these lawsuits.

Yeah, you know, there has been such an extreme amount of chaos and uncertainty since the inauguration on January 20th. And working people have had enough. And so we were proud to lend our voice, along with others in the labor movement and the progressive movement, to try to put a stop to this outrageous overreach. And we believe that what this so-called doge is doing is highly illegal.

Going into personal data of folks is just unwarranted, unnecessary, and we're happy to do our part to put a stop to it. What are you hearing from your members? Because one of the debates that Sagar and I have been having here is about how much this is landing with working people since Social Security hasn't been cut yet, Medicaid hasn't been cut yet. We'll get to more on that in a moment. Medicare hasn't been cut yet.

So far, it's a huge spectacle is this giant power grab, but maybe it's not biting and hitting people's pocketbooks just yet. What is your sense from your membership of how engaged they are, how concerned they are, or do they feel like, oh, well, they're, you know, making the government more efficient? Who wouldn't support that?

I don't know how knowing my social security number or yours or having access to my tax returns or yours or billions of other people in the country is making the government more efficient. Not only that,

We have folks who have filed complaints, wage and hour violation complaints against companies owned by Elon Musk. And that data lies inside of the Department of Labor. And so for him to have access to everything, including information about folks who have filed complaints against him,

Hmm. I think American people, you know, have something to say about that. It just goes against the tenets of our democracy and just what's fair and right. So one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, they've taken these actions so quickly and made Elon Musk, I mean, basically like this sort of CEO dictator of the country. And they're betting on it all happening so fast.

that the system can't really react. And, you know, obviously Republicans in Congress have just sort of laid down. They're just going to go along with it, cede their own power to the executive. The Democrats in Congress seem to be struggling to figure out what exactly they can do to deal with the situation. So you're only really left with the court system, which I know is why you got involved with these lawsuits. Have there been

broader conversations, though, between you and other labor leaders about maybe some more creative or more coordinated actions with the labor movement and all of the millions of union members that exist nationwide? Yeah, I think we have to remember this is a loose count of the days, right? But there's certainly...

far more days ahead of us with this administration than we have behind us. And so we have to pace ourselves. This is going to be a marathon. It is absolutely not a sprint.

And they seem to be throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us. But I expect there's going to be a lot more to come. And so it's important that we all take a deep breath, that we pace ourselves, that we are strategic as we possibly can be, that we choose the smart battles to wage, but that we have to stand up against what is un-American violence.

and just not right. And so I think we will see in the coming weeks and months ahead a much more strategic, escalated, coordinated pushback, not just from the labor movement, but from all corners of the country where we seek to continue to build the power of working people to break this hold that this administration seems to have over our country and

To bridge the gap between us and others who may not share all of our political beliefs, but want a country, right, that actually is one that has a vibrant and healthy democracy. And to, you know, and to begin to fix and heal, I think, some of what's wrong in the country right now.

I know you also have been involved, your union's been involved in pushing back against looming Medicaid cuts. We can put E2 up on the screen. Your Republicans are getting their sort of budget proposals together. A piece of that is a giant $4 trillion tax cut for the rich. Another thing that is a major priority here from House Republicans are cuts to Medicaid. According to The Hill, they say they put that at the top of their list

of budget cuts to help pay for their wide-ranging agenda that spans tax cuts, energy production, and border security. Put the next one up on the screen, too, to your point about some unlikely bedfellows here. Steve Bannon is actually warning Republicans about this move. He says, Medicaid, you've got to be careful because a lot of MAGAs are on Medicaid. I'm telling you, if you don't think so, you are dead wrong. So talk to us about some of the efforts your union is making to push back against these cuts.

Yeah. So first we have to know and remember 80 million Americans depend on Medicaid for their health care coverage in this country. Most of those are children. Half are children and a lot of them are seniors.

And so it is just inconcernable to believe that we would take away health care access and coverage for the most vulnerable among us. And I don't ever say this, I think maybe the first time ever, but I agree with Steve Bannon. Medicaid is not a blue issue. It's not a red issue. It's not right or left.

It's American. And it's Americans' healthcare coverage. And so we know that Republicans and Democrats alike depend on this program, red states and blue states. 30% of state budgets depend

And so if you make those types of cuts so deep into state budgets, it doesn't just affect Medicaid. It affects every single part of a state budget. And so we need to raise our voices. We had over 300 people on Capitol Hill a couple of weeks ago lobbying Democrats and Republicans alike.

on this issue because working people are not going to stand by and watch this type of devastation happen to our communities. Last question for you, April. What do you make of some of the political trend towards Republicans among union members and specifically towards Donald Trump, who's made a pretty concerted effort to appeal to some union members?

Look, union members are regular, everyday people, right? We don't have a country without working people. And that includes folks who belongs to unions. And I believe that folks want lower prices. They want more control, more agency over their lives. They want to know that they can take care of their families and keep a roof over their heads and send their kids to college. And hey, maybe take a vacation every once in a while.

And I believe that's what folks thought that they were voting for. But we are, you know, almost a month in and I haven't seen the price of eggs get any lower. I haven't seen people more certain about the stability of our country. All that I've seen is chaos and uncertainty. And so I think if they continue to do what they do,

folks will know what the truth is. And that is that they voted for someone who is not really on the side of working people. It is clear he is on the side of his billionaire cronies and the corporations that they lead. And it's time for us to take our country back and make sure it's one where working people stand a chance to get ahead. April Verrett, president of Service Employees International Union. Great to have you. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

Ready to celebrate the magic of live music? South by Southwest Music Festival returns to Austin, Texas this March 10th through the 15th with a fresh lineup of legendary and rising talent. Join a global community of music lovers, artists, industry professionals, and creatives at the 2025 South by Southwest Music Festival.

With hundreds of showcasing artists performing across six days in over 50 venues, Discovery is right around the corner at South by Southwest. Explore the lineup at SXSW.com.

It's time to put America first when it comes to spectrum airwaves. Dynamic spectrum sharing is an American innovation developed to meet American needs, led by American companies and supported by the U.S. military who use the spectrum to defend the homeland. It maximizes a scarce national resource, wireless spectrum, to protect national security and deliver greater competition and lower costs without forcing the U.S. military to waste $120 billion relocating critical defense systems.

America won't win by letting three big cellular companies keep U.S. spectrum policy stuck in the past, hoarding spectrum for their exclusive use to limit competition here at home while giving Chinese companies like Huawei and ZTE a big leg up overseas. For America to lead, federal policymakers must build on the proven success of U.S. spectrum sharing to ensure national security, turbocharge domestic manufacturing, rural connectivity, and create American jobs. Let's keep America at the forefront of global wireless leadership. Learn more at SpectrumFuture.com.

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Great to see you, too. Thank you. All right. So Ali's here to horseshoe people into traditional values, reacting, it seems, to this Elon Musk saga. Let's put this up there on the screen for those who have not yet seen the news. Ashley St. Clair, she's a conservative influencer, I guess you would call her.

has claimed now to have had Elon Musk's 13th child. Reveals she sat down for a tabloid interview here, a life of secrecy after a whirlwind romance with a down-to-earth billionaire. What we learn a little bit more from this entire saga is that there's been some disputes between Miss St. Clair, between Elon Musk about paternity, it seems, in terms of his responsibility. And it spawned a lot of discussion,

online amongst the conservative intelligentsia, I guess, over having a child out of wedlock, about these arrangements for family and what is the ideal outcome if you want to live a good and a happy life. So let's put her statement here where she says, "'Five months ago, I welcomed a new baby into the world. Elon Musk is the father. I've not previously disclosed this to protect our child's safety and privacy.'"

But in recent days, it's become clear the tabloid media intends to do so regardless of the harm it will cause. Initially, she was saying there's a tabloid story. However, she did participate later in that report from the New York Post. So, Ali, what do you make of all this as a participant in the discourse?

Yes. Okay. So when I saw this news, I was so shocked by it. I literally woke my husband up out of his slumber and he didn't, he was like delirious. He was like, I think I'm dreaming. There's no way that you're telling the truth. And as it started unraveling and we were digging more into it, we realized it is very much true. And I have a lot of confusions.

feelings about it. I mean, I know exactly where I stand when it comes to marriage and children and families, formation of families. We need not just more babies. We need actually stable families for society to survive and thrive. And so I know Elon Musk is a part of this desire to repopulate the earth, like Genghis Khan. I think he's even said something like that before. No, he literally said that.

But we don't just need more babies. We need more stability. And from my understanding, this was the intentional creation of a child that they knew was not going to have a stable two-parent home. And because of that...

I couldn't participate in the celebration and the congratulation. It's not that I think that the baby is it valuable? Of course, the baby is so worthy of love and celebration and all of that. Absolutely. But this seems to be a very sorted and purposeful situation. And I just don't think that I can publicly be a part of celebrating that. Well,

Well, in part, you know, we had a debate internally that I don't think Sacramar made revealing of like, should we cover this? Because it is does feel like, you know, it's this trashy. It's like, you know, it's very personal, all those sorts of things. But to your point, first of all, Elon Musk is one of the most powerful people on the planet at this point. And number two, to your point.

It does speak to this, like, ideology that he has. So I think it is important to dig into it, not to mention, I think, the legitimate points people have made of, like, if this was Barack Obama—

Some people would certainly be covering it. Totally. But what did you make of some of the response from the right that was like, oh, she's she's winning at life. She's secured wealth and good genetics for her baby. That one makes me very, very uncomfortable. And you start talking in this language of like genetics and that that should be the goal. Sole goal of procreation is having like the perfect baby with the perfect genetics. Obviously, that's a dark road to go down. What did you make of some of that reaction?

Yeah, because there were some different motivations behind the celebration. So I have a lot of pro-life, very solid, socially conservative friends who congratulated. And we might disagree on that, but I do not doubt their sincere values. They see it as, I'm just celebrating the existence of a baby and that's all they're doing. But then there were those, like you said, that were like...

Who cares? The world needs more babies. This is a good thing. We need more based babies. I saw something like that. And so we should just be happy for them. But clearly this is not a happy situation. That's first of all, like we can see that we can see that from Ashley's responses. Some of them she deleted. This is actually a very sad, complicated, messy situation. And this little helpless situation.

child who didn't consent to any of this is right at the center of it. So I think we should actually be sad that this whole thing happened. But then also, when we look at the conservative values of the right, you made a really good point. If this had been Barack Obama or a number of other kinds of people, no one would be celebrating. We would be calling it

degenerate behavior, irresponsible, the problem with society, part of the breakdown of society and the breakdown of the family. But baby mama culture, I guess, is okay when it's Elon Musk. And I just can't get on board with that. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And to your point, this is deeply exploitive and sad. So let's put this up there.

on the screen, you know, what you were talking about for some of their back and their forth. You can see here, she says, Elon, we've been trying to communicate for the past several days. You have not responded. When are you going to reply to us instead of publicly responding to smears from an individual who just posted photos of me in my underwear at age 15 years old? Like you said, she eventually deleted it. But this is not a happy situation. And so I guess, like, bringing it back in terms of how—

We should all look at this arrangement, the eventual sad outcome where you have bickering online. Well, yes, there's an innocent child in the midst of all of this and what the cultural takeaway should be in terms of celebration and or using it as a lesson for everybody out there for their personal lives.

Yes. Well, I think that it is an interesting picture at what the right is now, what the Republican Party is now. And we knew that when we kind of grabbed on to the Maha movement, which includes a lot of amazing people that I agree with in a lot of ways, but who are also very socially liberal or moderate. We kind of rearranged the right to be a conglomeration of all different types of fundamental values. Like we agree on important things that won us an election and

But we never got down to the basics. I mean, we disagree on fundamental things like the definition of marriage, when life begins, the sanctity of life, if marriage is even necessary, obviously. And so in some ways, I think these debates are productive. I see my role and others like me to be an anchor on

on the right to move the Overton window as much as I can and to hopefully show people that it's not just about having traditional or old values, but doing what works. If we really want society to win, if we want America to be first, we have to have a stable family unit. And we also have to know, in my opinion, where all of that comes from, which is from a creator who created objective universal morality and all of that.

I'm a Christian. That's where I stand. But at the very least, just looking at it pragmatically, this kind of sowing your wild oats when you're a 53-year-old going after, I don't want to say going after, but being in a relationship, I guess, with a 26-year-old conservative commentator, it's just not the way to go. If everyone did that, if everyone did that, then we would all be in a world of hurt. It would all be a mess. So maybe we should think about what is best, not just for us in the moment, but...

for society in general as well. It's interesting you bring up Maha and RFK Jr. because my husband woke me up in the middle of the night when the Olivia Nuzzi RFK Jr. affair came out. And, you know, I mean, one of the questions I have for you is like,

Has this ship sailed in a sense when Trump himself is how many times divorced and kids with all these different, you know, women and RFK Jr. is by his own admission, serial philanderer, you know, the history with him and his ex-wife who is now deceased is deeply dark and horrifying. You know, has that ship sort of sailed? And I'm not saying those things were celebrated in the same way. I think that's part of what's different about this particular dynamic is

But was the road laid out by celebrating certainly those individuals, even if those particular choices were not part of what was inherently celebrated? Yeah, I think that's a fair question. But then you also have J.D. Vance, who I think is being heralded as a hero rightly by a lot of conservatives, not only because he's just so strong and he's not afraid to say anything,

the truth, but also because of his queer family values, because he is so insanely normal. And it feels like a really long time that we've had a normal young family in the White House or, you know, in D.C. And so I think that really Trump and Elon Musk

and RFK, they were simply seen as the people who could get it done. And I still have hope that those who have come over to the right and who have changed a lot of their values over the past few years, that they can still change their values even more to come even further over. Because I hear from a lot of these very influential Maha people who tell me privately, you know, I used to be ardently pro-choice, and now I'm rethinking that.

So I think that there's an opportunity. And I think instead of compromising those of us on the social right over there, we really have to hold the line and be as persuasive as possible. Allie, last question I have for you is how does this fit in? Like, I feel like

You know, with Trump and with Elon and with RFK Jr., there's like a nexus with sort of like the Andrew Tate version of masculinity where, you know, philandering and, you know, getting a lot of women and having like basically hair. Like this is sort of like celebrated as that's part of what makes you an alpha male. The Trump administration is now trying to pressure Romania to like, you know, I don't want to get into that whole thing, but let the Tate brothers off the hook, etc.,

Like, how do you because I think that's part of what is intention with the direction you want to push the party in is that part of that definition of being an alpha and being a male has come along with that view and that approach to women and parenting, etc.?

Yes. So part of it is true. This kind of masculinity, being tough is masculine. Saying what is true while being unafraid to do so is masculine. Being strong, all of those things are masculine. But what I think is like,

maybe peak masculinity or one of the key parts of masculinity is self-control. And when we have someone like Andrew Tate who can't even master himself, and yet he is talking about conquering the world by impregnating a bunch of women. Yeah. I mean, every loser forever has done that. But if you

can't even control yourself and your own base passions, then you're really no better than an animal. So I understand why parts of Andrew Tate are like, wow, he's really unafraid to speak against feminism. But of course, I mean, he is no better than any...

you know, degenerate that has ever lived. And I do really, I'm very troubled and very worried about the lionization of someone like Andrew Tate on the right. I see that even growing now. And yeah, that greatly concerns me.

Well, Ali, I respect you so much. I think you're so consistent and I just always enjoy talking to you. So I really hope that you come back to the show and it's been just been great hearing your perspective. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you and we'll see you all on Thursday.

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