5/21/25: Bernie Rips Dems On Identity Politics, Ro Khanna Storms Trump Districts, Megyn Kelly Confronts Tapper, Elon Quits Politics
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Let's move on to the man who's always sprinkling good luck on everyone, Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders was on Flagrant with Andrew Schultz and the gang. And, Brian, I watched this. Did you get a chance to watch it? I didn't watch the entire thing. Tell me about these guys. I don't watch this show. So, Sager's friends with them, actually. But they are, like, you know, Schultz was talking on the podcast. He's like a little dude.

He calls himself a lifelong Democrat repeatedly in his conversations with Bernie. He said, I really wanted you to win in 2016. He's kind of like, he's similar. I would say he's sort of politically similar to Rogan, probably a little less interested in some of the wild conspiratorial stuff. He's not in as deep probably on all of those things, but he's kind of similar in that he's like a Bernie bro-ish guy.

I even talked about how the podcast bros have been labeled similarly to the Bernie bros in conversation with Bernie Sanders. I did see that part. This almost, yeah, this almost sexist approach to lumping people in the pejorative categories. DOJ is going to come for you pretty soon. Yeah. Keep doing that. Yeah, they're going to come right for you. DEI. But anyway, it's...

The conversation, before we kick it over to this one fascinating clip, we have a couple of clips, but the one we're going to play first is really, really good. I just want to say the first part of their conversation, they're spending like 20 minutes talking about the Brooklyn Dodgers.

And the reason that's important is I don't think there are a lot of Democrats who can sit and talk totally organically. Bernie is just like blowing them away with his knowledge of like the 1958 lineup of Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers going to L.A., I think, was a formative experience for Bernie Sanders in a way that he said. Yes. The early childhood trauma can be. And I think it I think you can connect it to.

This sense of like, who are the wait, who are these oligarchs that can rip a community apart? Like, yeah. And as somebody who was as passionate about baseball in my childhood as Bernie was in his baseball feels like it is.

part of the community. It does not feel like it should be something owned by an individual who can do something with it. That's why you got to go with the Green Bay Packers. One of the greatest senses of injustice I would ever feel as a child was when the Phillies would not be on TV. What do you mean I can't watch the Philadelphia Phillies? The Philadelphia Phillies, they have to be on TV. Yeah.

This is insane. You're outside of Philadelphia. Yeah. The reason that I wanted to start with that point is precisely because I think, I'm saying this as a conservative, if you are an ideological liberal,

And you watch Bernie's fluent, natural, organic conversation about the Brooklyn Dodgers with Andrew Schultz for 20 minutes. He gives the best pitch for democratic socialism all in the context of baseball in the first 20 minutes of that podcast. That is changing hearts and minds. It is persuading people that the left is reasonable. Even if I disagree with it, you're an 18-year-old boy and you're listening to that. You're like, holy shit.

This is completely true. These billionaires come in, buy up teams, jack up the ticket prices so that a family of four can't afford. It's like a vacation now. It's literally the price of a vacation. Yes. Can't afford to go to a game without it being the price of the weekend at a beach for everyone to get a hot dog, decent ticket, whatever. It's a punch in the face. Yeah. Yeah.

And so they come in and buy it. Repeated punches in the face. First the parking. Well, they use your money to build the stadium. Yeah. Then charge you 80 bucks a ticket for a decent seat. And then they take the team somewhere else 10 years later once you've already bought your kids gear and you've sort of emotionally invested in the franchise. Right. And it's $18 for a Coke. And it's baseball. Baseball.

It's America's pastime. Yeah. And so the way Sanders starts that segment is just a fantastic pitch for democratic socialism. And there are so few. He is willing to laugh at the jokes about, you know, like they say something about Bernie's like, we learned how to do arithmetic this way by watching baseball. And Schultz goes, well, today we call that autism. And Bernie's laughing at it. And it's like, you

don't find other Democrats. Like, imagine Alyssa Slotkin just being able to roll with a comedian making a joke about that. She wouldn't. And it's the same thing when Schultz makes jokes about you can only be bigoted around your close friends. Like, Bernie Sanders is like, look, I'm against bigotry. Schultz goes, unless it's around your close friends.

And Bernie just rolls with it. To your close friends. Yeah, to your close friends. So let's roll this clip so that I can stop doing summaries of clips. I know everybody loves that. This is D1. About what happened to you in 2016 with this Bernie Bros movement, where your followers are saying they have a racism problem, a misogyny problem. Do you think that's a super PAC thing behind that? No, it was the Democratic establishment. Oh, wow. Okay. You know, that was just, they were sitting there. We had a lot of young people. We had people of color and...

And, you know, they create this kind of myth with the help of the corporate media and all that stuff. You know, it's kind of interesting to that note is during this election, the podcast space, which the Democrats largely avoided, they feel had some influence in the election. And they started to label us the podcast bros and said that we were sexist and we were racist and bigoted. It's almost like it's the exact same strategy to get you out of there. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what the liberal elite China does. They run away. Look, getting, again, I would hope that everybody who's watching the program is that we as a nation have got to end all forms of bigotry, right? Yes. That I start off as a basic assumption. Unless it's to your close friends, right? Whether it's racism or sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, whatever it is. But, and, you know, liberal Democrats talk about that all the time.

And then you get to what we call identity politics. You're black, you're wonderful, you're tremendous, you're gay, you're the greatest human being on earth. And rather than say, what do you stand for? Exactly. You're gay, that's fine, who cares? But what do you stand for? Yeah.

You know, is every gay person brilliant and wonderful and great? No, of course not. Everybody's human being. Yeah. So the issue is what you stand for, which gets you back to what we discussed earlier, class politics. Yes. In the sense of which side are you on? Are you going to stand with working families? Are you going to raise the minimum wage to a living wage or not? Exactly.

Are you going to fight to guarantee health care to all people or not? Are you going to demand that the wealthiest people start paying their fair share of taxes or not? Those are the issues. No one cares what color you are, what your gender is, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So, Ryan, well done. Again, you just – this is what's so frustrating is –

Democrats, I just wrote about this this morning, actually. On their quest, we can put the next terror street up on the screen, this multi-million dollar quest to find the next Joe Rogan. The New York Times had an interesting- Oh, D3, yeah. Yeah, the New York Times had an interesting report on it. Sorry, yes, I skipped ahead, about how Democrats are now throwing millions of dollars. They have spreadsheets of influencers to try and create the next Joe Rogan when obviously they lost the original Joe Rogan, who's somebody who had Bernie Sanders on, and then a big

big conversation with Bernie Sanders about universal health care and all of these Democratic socialist policies that Rogan is pretty interested in. And Democrats don't want to change their policy offerings or their tone as evidenced by the fact that they're not leaning in to Bernie being the guy that can help them win back the Rogan instead of astroturfing some partisan hack that's going to be exactly the opposite of what succeeds on the podcast circuit, which is

the anti-partisanship of freewheeling conversation and sort of authenticity. Bernie can go on flagrant just like Trump can, just like J.D. Vance can, and he can go on Theo Vaughn, he can go on Joe Rogan, and it's because he's a critic of the Democratic Party in the same way that Trump is a critic of the Republican Party. You could say Bernie's more sincere than Trump, sure,

but they're both criticizing their own party, which is what you're not going to pay a bunch of influencers to do. Nobody wants the Dem donors to give millions of dollars to people who are then going to go trash the Dems. - We got Ro Khanna coming pretty soon, so let's roll this last clip.

of D2 from here where he talks about, are Democrats a threat to democracy as well? - The problem I think a lot of voters had is like, they didn't even know if it was her. We didn't even know if Biden was president. We didn't even know if these were her talking points. And we felt that over the last four elections,

Democrats, we felt, that we didn't have a say on who could be president. We talk a lot about the Republicans being autocrats and oligarchs and taking over democracy. But from the Democrat perspective, and I'm a lifelong Democrat, I felt like the Democratic Party completely removed the democratic process from its constituents. And I think they need to have some accountability of that. No argument here.

I don't need it for you. I mean, I wanted you to, like, 2016, I was like, this is going to happen. This guy's going to do it. And it felt like they, it felt like they stole it from me. And I'll be honest, it broke my heart when you, when you supported him. Look, but you have, in the world that I live in, you got a choice. And I mean, a lot of people, including my wife, agree with you. But, you know, you're down to a choice. Is it going to be Hillary Clinton or is it going to be

Donald Trump, not a great choice. But it ended up being him anyway, so why don't we burn it down? Well, because it's easy to say burning it down means that children are not going to have...

you know, food to eat, that the schools will deteriorate, people will not have health care. I got it. And I, you know, I'm an elected official. I got to represent the people. That's fair. And I can't turn my back on. But then could we not also say if ostensibly there hasn't been a fair primary for the Democrats since 2008, are they not also a threat to democracy? We often hear... Fair enough. That is, that is...

Yeah, I'm not going to argue with that point. Including my wife. That was a pretty funny line, yeah. That's why he can hang with the bros. Yeah, and Jane is, yeah, she is more of a burn it down than Bernie is. More of a Bernie bro than Bernie. For sure. Bernie actually wanted somebody to primary Obama in 2012, which killed him then in 2016. They used that against him.

Ruthlessly. And I think he would, at the time, he would have loved to take it back. He didn't have any idea that he was going to be a competitive presidential candidate in the next cycle. So, yeah, 2012, that was fair because nobody ran against him, Obama. 2016, we know. 2020, the votes were fair. But the party just consolidated around Joe Biden. Yeah, Bernie was like polling ahead even among black voters after Nevada.

But the Democratic primary voters are very lockstep. And when MSNBC, CNN, Pete Buttigieg, Obama, Amy Klobuchar, everybody consolidated, they moved. Yeah. And that's what sends people... Which isn't really cheating. It's like they used the power of the party to beat him, which, yes, is hypocritical if your name is the Democratic Party. Yeah. And it's the reason that you end up getting...

the Andrew Schultz of the world looking seriously at Donald Trump. And it's because they're so disillusioned by how Bernie Sanders was treated. And until Democrats acknowledge that, they're not going to have success in the anti-establishment

podcast circuit. They can continue to, you know, New York Times, The Daily, NPR, those still do really well on the podcast charts. It's something that I think Dems sort of take for granted, but they're not going to win back young men until these faults are acknowledged and they're not going to pay their way to bullshitting people into thinking that they're sincerely acknowledging those faults. So good luck to everyone. That's how we're ending every segment today. Good luck. Thanks. Exactly. All right. Up next, we got Ro Khanna in the studio.

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A Democratic congressman is taking his pitch to some red districts or at least purple districts around the country. Let's play a little bit of Ro Khanna heading to Pennsylvania. I want to ask, like, are we safe? Is my family safe? And you know, you ask, are we safe? And you're mature enough and you're thoughtful enough that I'm going to give you an honest answer.

And the honest answer is that there are people right now in power who are making it harder for folks who are lesbian in this country. There are people who are making it harder for folks who are on Medicaid and who need those services to live well and to have basic health care. And that's true about what's going on.

But you know, we also have a country where a sixth grader gets to stand up and talk about that and talk about that and talk about that in a way that is so much more powerful than anything I can say or any congressperson can say. All right, joining us here is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna.

Thanks for joining us. Thank you. The standing ovation you saw was for the sixth grade girl. Not for me, but that was a powerful moment because she stood up there a lot of courage and she said, I'm afraid. I'm afraid for my family. And what can you tell me that's going to keep me safe? And there's not much you can tell folks. And I was pretty honest with her about some of the cuts that are taking place and the climate affair that's been created. And this is

This is kind of your, you know, this is your homecoming in a way. You're from Bucks County. I was actually just up that way from my cousin's high school graduation from Boyertown High. I was born in Allentown, which you also visited. That's why we were having such a hard time getting a venue. I said, how is it so hard? They said, all the graduations. All the graduations, yeah, exactly. So how was Allentown? Where'd you go in Allentown?

We were in Allentown, and it was right next to the Mack Truck facility. A lot of the folks in Mack Truck, unfortunately, are losing their jobs in July. Two reasons. One, those jobs are going to Mexico. So, I mean, Donald Trump here is talking about bringing manufacturing jobs back. How about we just start not –

losing them. And the second thing is these blanket tariffs have caused Mack trucks to raise their prices by 25 percent, and they've lost 25 percent of hoarders. And so these folks from UAW were there saying, you know, 350 or four guys are going to get laid off if you guys don't do something, and appealing to Ryan McKenzie, the congressperson there, and Donald Trump to save their jobs. So what would an industrial policy look like that didn't lead to that? Because

Trump, when he talks about bringing manufacturing back,

is not talking about Mack Truck laying people off in Allentown. He's talking about the opposite of that. And Mack Truck laying people off has been going on for 40 years. They had a bit of a revival, but it was a formative experience. My child, I remember everybody talking in Allentown about, well, Mack Truck is moving to South Carolina. One of the first things that a lot of these companies do is they move from the union states down to the non-union states.

And then when there's a little bit of union activity there, then they're then they head to Mexico or China or Vietnam or wherever they go. So what what would you do? Because obviously it makes no sense for U.S. policy to be hurting Americans.

Mac in Allentown? Yeah. Well, first, you wouldn't have blanket tariffs that are making it harder for manufacturers to import things that they need for their trucks before you actually phased in the production in the United States. So if you wanted to say, OK, here are the

component parts, we're gonna produce that in the United States and phase in tariffs, fine, but you can't just have these blanket tariffs. Second, I would have an offshoring tax. I mean, if you're gonna offshore a plant, you're causing a lot of disruption, you're causing a lot of harm to a community. There should be a tax. Right now, actually,

The tax overseas is less than the corporate tax in the United States. It's 21% here, but to repatriate profits, it's only 10%. So we need to have an offshoring tax. And third, I'd have an economic Marshall Plan and development policy of what are we going to invest

in these communities to build new factories and where are we going to commit to buying things where the government can buy things? Some of it may be Mack Truck. Some of it may be other kinds of manufacturing. Some of it may be healthcare education. It's not all going to be manufacturing, but you need to have a concerted investment economic development strategy, none of which Donald Trump has. He wants to just wave a magic wand with blanket tariffs, and it's in some cases, like Mack Truck,

I don't think Trump wants to hurt them, but unintentionally hurting them. So I have a two-pronged question on that point because the big, beautiful bill, if it gets passed, is promising tax write-offs for investment in the United States, building, manufacturing building, factory building in the United States, and retroactive to January 20th.

like 100% write-offs on all of that. Corporate tax would go down from 21% to 15%. The Trump administration sees that as a sort of compliment to the tariff policy, as kind of an industrial policy in a tax structure way. What do you make of that? Do you think substantively that's helpful? And having been talking to people in counties that went Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump in many cases, people who have voted for Democrats and Republicans in the presidential ticket in recent decades,

Do you think those types of policies could be sold by the Trump administration? Like, do you think the Trump administration will have an easy time saying, listen, we are bringing manufacturing back if that bill passes in substance and in style, I guess is the question.

Well, first of all, in the substance, they're also repealing some of the Inflation Reduction Act production tax credits. So it's not a clean bill that says, if you're making things in America, we're going to give you tax credits. I guess if you're making things that happen to be low carbon, they want to take those tax credits away. They have some of the accelerated depreciation, but it's also a very trickle-down approach. Their view, I mean, a genuine view is we're going to create these global deals where

we're going to provide these tax breaks and somehow it's going to lead to more job creation in the United States and every community. It may lead to more job creation in Silicon Valley. It may lead to more job creation in capital centers. But I don't think these companies are going to say, OK, now we're going to go in Johnstown. We're going to go in Lorain. We're going to build the types of manufacturing that those communities want. To do that, you need federal directed investment. You need

a workforce. You need to ask these communities what to do. In terms of the politics of it, I think he's going to try to sell that, but

Ultimately, reality is reality. At some point, people are going to say, "Okay, am I getting laid off? Am I getting new jobs?" It's why Donald Trump is so much more effective as an outsider than as president, in my view. As an outsider, David Brooks said, "He asks all the right questions. He just has some of the wrong answers." As an outsider, he can say all these problems, but when he's as a president, he's going to be judged on the actual record.

And so you had you were saying you had some Trump protesters? We did. Who showed up, you know, how did what was their deal? But first of all, it's an argument for every Democrat going on Fox News because they said, you know, first they started approaching me. I said, oh, no, I'm going to get yelled at. And they said, we have a request. Can we get a selfie? I said, you want a selfie with me? So we see you all the time on Fox News. So that's the that's what started the conversation. And then I said, well, why don't you just listen? Because I just

introduced a bill to codify Donald Trump's executive order. On the pharmaceutical bill to say that Americans shouldn't pay more than people in every other part of the world. And Bernie and I had done something similar years ago where we said that if you're paying more in America than places in Japan or Germany, we should take away the patents from those

pharma companies. Trump says, let's import the cheap drugs. And we got a bipartisan. It's with Biggs. It's with Luna. And so this got the Trump voters paying attention. I said, I'm not for Medicaid cuts. They said, well, we don't want Medicaid cuts. I said, I'm for keeping this Mack truck jobs here. They said, we're for that. Now, I said, we're

you know, the bill actually has these cuts. And I think that the politics, the debate is going to be whether Trump can sell them that it's not cutting Medicaid, when in my view, it actually is. He's calling it waste, fraud, and abuse. It's not, though. Right. So on that point, even actually on the drug bill, have you heard anything from the White House? Have your Republicans heard anything, Republican colleagues heard anything from the White House that there might be movement on that? Or is Republican leadership...

going to do everything they can not to let that come to the floor or get into any other packages. It's an uphill battle to get it onto the floor. There's so much lobbying money of big pharma. And, you know, Donald Trump's out there saying he's already lowered drug prices by 85%.

Mission accomplished. He's got the talking points. But again, he's president. Maybe right now people think, OK, this is going to happen. But a year from now, they're going to wonder, have drug prices actually gone down? And I would think this would be such a home run for him if he would actually, if we would pass this law and codify it and he'd be the president to take on big pharma. It would be a

a huge deal, but I just don't think that the Republicans in Congress are going to do it or the Senate are going to do it. He just got a kind of surprise win in the Senate on a similar vein where they passed last night, they passed into law the No Tax on Tips Act. Got 100 votes in the Senate. It just went through by unanimous consent. Democrats are like, all right, fine. We'll do this.

Do you think, is that gonna pass the House? - It's gonna be part of the reconciliation bill. I do think it'll pass. As you know, they've given the no tax for tips for four years. They're giving the tax breaks for the millionaires and billionaires for 10 years. - Oh, that's why it was only 135 or 200 something billion. - And that's the gimmick that they have. But look, Donald Trump obviously has,

incredible political instincts. You don't become president twice. I mean, I don't agree with his leadership, but his no tax on tips was a stroke of brilliance in Nevada and other places. My view is we've got to raise the living wage. But in the meantime, yeah, why are we taxing tips on working families? And so you're going to get support for it. And I think the argument from Democrats is, why are you making this four years and not 10 years and having the

the millionaire billionaire tax cut for 10 years. By the way, $80,000 plus that every millionaire is going to get based on this tax plan. And it's about $750 for people under $100,000 just on the tax breaks. And then there was this CBO study

which is just astounding of distributional analysis saying that the bottom 10% are gonna be hurt because of the Medicaid cuts and the cuts in food stamps and the top 10% are gonna benefit. And it's a pretty straightforward analysis. - Could you see the, so what about the pharmaceutical measure? Like it feels like from a political perspective, you've got Trump has already said it, he's for it, he's claimed he's doing it, you've got the bill,

What's the mechanism to expose the big pharma lobby as the ones in the way of it? Because once they're exposed, it's much more difficult for them. Call up the Health and Human Services Secretary, see if he wants to do some messaging on that. That's not a bad idea, actually. We can reach out to him. I'm hoping we get as many Republicans and Democrats to sign on to it. Look, it's not...

perfect in terms of would I prefer Lloyd Doggett or Bernie's approach? Yes. But the argument I make to my Democratic colleagues is I'm not changing the language because I don't want to then say to Republicans, here's an excuse to oppose it. And for Republicans, I'm saying, look, we're literally codifying Trump's executive order. I mean, how are you not for this? And I think if we can get to a large number of House members on this bill, we start to get momentum because the reality is that both parties have

taken money from big pharma or buy into those talking points. Oh, it's going to hurt innovation and hurt drug discovery. Not true. I mean, most of that is happening with your and my tax dollars. But we've got to expose it. It's a powerful lobbying group. And that's really what's standing in the way. Yeah.

Now, the debate consuming Democrats right now is the, you know, what did you know and when about President Biden's senility? Megyn Kelly and Jake Tapper had it out a little bit. Let's to set the context. Let's play some of this Kelly Tapper clip.

Over here in my ecosphere, we were covering all of these. It wasn't just falling down. It was getting lost. It was some of the stuff you report in your book. We knew and we were reporting on like the multi jump cuts in the videos of him, or it was obvious he couldn't get through a one minute take. It was clear to us that he was using teleprompter.

And there was some reporting on that at the time, all of which the White House was denying. Now, the current White House, I have some connections. With the Joe Biden White House, I had none, but you did. There was an attempted cover-up. It could only ever work if you allowed it, if the press allowed it. Some of us tried not to, and some of us were complicit. The Biden White House...

did not like me. Okay? This is, I do not have great connections with the Biden White House. Well, clearly, you have a lot of sources. You say you talked to over 200 sources for this book. This was after the election. You have some you could have called and worked. No, that's the point, is that they were not being honest. That's the point. Well, how did the Wall Street Journal get it in June of 2024? And Jake Tapper and CNN couldn't find sources for this story then before he dropped out? No, no, no. It's just... Megan, if we're going to do this...

Let's just stick to the facts here, okay? When there is a damaging report- - Jake, that's what I've been doing all along. One of us didn't miss the biggest story of the century when it comes to presidential politics. - And so that's Jake Tapper taking the beating. - A little bit of his own medicine. - Yeah, that's right. - You gotta get it. - That's right. Speaking of that, actually, Joe Scarborough getting a little bit from his old friend Mark Halperin. - Oh yeah, let's roll some of this next clip too. - I say to people,

Go watch the State of the Union address. Talk to people who talk to Joe Biden. He had good days and bad days. You were with him on a good day and had conversations with him on a good day. On good days. On good days. Plural. Good days. Yeah. But looking back at that, do you say, well, it was misleading to say best Biden ever without caveating and say, except on the days when he's not the best Biden ever?

Well, but I never saw those days personally. Well, you did. You did because you saw him address a dead congresswoman and you saw him in South Carolina. A dead congresswoman, yeah. Yeah. Well, more than that. I mean, I can show you the RNC clip reels. There were plenty of days in public

when he was not the best Biden ever. And of course, shortly after- He stumbled and bumbled around, Mark. I mean, yeah, he certainly did. Donald Trump did. Other politicians did. But it's actually the same case as a lot of times when I've gone in and talked to Donald Trump. So where did you come down on this during-

What was your sense of Biden's senility and ability to be president versus privately versus publicly? Well, first of all, obviously, right now, everyone is hoping and praying for his full recovery from from prostate cancer. But what I have said is it was a mistake for President Biden to run. I had seen him a few times in the year before.

and had said that based on my conversations, he should run. Now, in light of all that's come out, I think that was a wrong judgment. We also were hearing from a lot of people in the Biden White House that he's capable of doing it. He has the energy. We should have pushed back. It should have been more independent, should have asked more questions, shouldn't have had as much deference.

I do think he was capable of doing the job of president, but was he up for a grueling campaign in four more years? That seems obvious that some of us, many of us in the party got it wrong. Well, yeah, I'm curious. I imagine, you know, if you do more town halls, you'll hear sentiments that sound just like Megan's to Jake Tapper there. I feel like it's part of a trust deficit that voters have with Democrats now. It feels like a significant deficit.

question mark that people will come to Democratic congressmen with. And correct me if I'm wrong, if that's not something you hear from your constituents, but I wonder how you address that, how Democrats address that. I know Jake Tapper isn't like an elected Democratic official, but as somebody in-- - He scans us like to the public.

Right. Yeah. Well, he did. I mean, his coverage was mixed. He's trying to defend his record. But the point is, he wasn't banging the drum every day saying this guy is he doesn't seem capable of leading the country for another four years. And there's significant questions about whether he's capable now. So how do you think Democrats can or should or shouldn't address that question? Well, I do think that.

This created a trust deficit and was one of the big reasons we lost. And the American people punished the Democratic Party for that trust deficit. But I think the American people are very fair and also tend to move on. And the only way that this story drags out, in my view, is if we're not honest, if we don't come out and say it was a mistake, we own it.

we're gonna be better in pushing back. And now we wanna talk about the future and what's happening with Medicaid and your jobs and tax policy. If we continue to start off, say, well, we were right and we didn't make a wrong call, then I think it drags on. And that's why I just think, I don't think it is in any way betraying Joe Biden. I'm still very proud of his record of the IRA and the Chipset. I just think he made a wrong judgment to run.

And many of us should have asked tougher questions and shown more independence. And I guess if you say that, I think the American people are pretty fair. And just in terms of like the lessons that can be taken away from it, do you, in your own mind, when you look back, do you think one of the reasons that maybe you didn't push for the answers to those questions hard is that there didn't seem like a good alternative in the moment? Because Joe Biden had pushed for some of the populist economic policies that people like you had pushed for. Yeah.

Is there something that you thought maybe it held you back from asking, pushing further, asking those questions? I think the biggest thing in my view is the deference to seniority and party leaders that is sort of the culture of the Democratic Party. I mean, we see this, unfortunately, today with Jerry Connolly's passing. But we saw that in the oversight race. We've seen this time and again that the Democratic Party has a lot of –

culture of, of, of deference to a seniority, to people who've been there to party leaders. And we just need to be more willing to push back at least to get, for me, that was the main reason. I also think the fact that it went so long at the end, you know, if there was a robust open primary and someone like Bernie Sanders would have gotten in and had the time, that's one thing. But when it was a hundred days left, there was a fear that, uh,

Biden had championed and was championing fairly progressive policy and that the DNC would sort of engineer something that would move the party in a much more corporate direction. And that's, I think, also part of the reason that you had progressives being out there for Biden, because they like a lot of Biden's policies. Right. Yeah, I think that's the case, too. And I wonder how much the coronation of Kamala Harris plays into this whole this the same sense of

Betrayal or rejection that the public feels towards the Democratic behavior in 2024 do you think if when you know Eve even Obama we now know through reporting and it seemed you could kind of sense it at the time but we now know that the Obama's both Obama's thought that there should be an open primary and that the convention should really choose a candidate yeah, I got completely radical idea like Democrats get together and just democratically decide who should be the nominee and

And they were front run by, eventually by Biden, and then others who very quickly just endorsed Kamala, and it was done. So do you think that plays into it? Yes. Do you think that was a mistake not to have, you know, the argument was, oh, there'll be six weeks of fighting and all,

on and on. But was that a mistake to not have an open primary? It was. Look, the ideal situation would have been Biden does better than expected at the midterms, announces he's not doing a second term, and there's a real open primary. Because I do think it was awkward to go to a convention and to pass over the sitting vice president. I'm not saying...

that wouldn't have been preferable to what we did, but there's an awkwardness to that. Whereas I don't think anyone would have said that if there was an actual open election. The second best case though would have been an open convention and primary. And the reason is that the American people have this sense in my view, I mean, having lost races, having lost a race and won a race two years later. I mean, I lost to an incumbent and then won against the same incumbent two years later. And the biggest thing I got was, "Well, Roe, you're really working hard. You must really want this job. You've been campaigning so long."

And I think with Donald Trump, unfortunately, there was a sense like he's been campaigning for this for four years. What we saw as criminal lawsuits, people said, well, he's really fighting this and he's fighting assassinations. And so there was here's this person who's been campaigning for four years for a job and someone who's, you know, 100 days. And the American people kind of want you to.

earn it. They want you to beg and ask for their votes and fight for that. And that is something that Obama really benefited from, right? I mean, he was in every nook and cranny of this country fighting for his Hillary. And I think it hurt Harris in just her chances. Had she defeated someone, it would have actually strengthened her. And can you imagine

the hagiography that Biden would be getting right now. If he had, and anybody watching this, who's, if you're in your eighties and you're hanging on to your Senate seat, like think about this. They love breaking points. If Biden, I'm sure they do. If Biden, they watch it right after the PBS NewsHour clip on YouTube ends. If Biden had stepped down, like you said, after the mid, after they over-perform in the midterms, he steps down and he says, I said I was going to be a bridge. I'm following through on it.

Like the glowing portrayals of his legacy that we would be kind of sloshing through right now. You think even if Trump wins, that's the case? I think even if Trump wins, because then he did the best he could. He did what he said he was going to do. He set the party up.

And then the people chose Trump. But I think actually Democrats probably win. And the cancer diagnosis tragically would have vindicated that decision as well, saying, you know, it was... Maybe could have been honest about the cancer diagnosis earlier. Right. Which he's saying that he just learned that it's in his bones. It's like, I'm not a cancer doctor, but... He's saying that he hasn't been tested since 2014. I mean, I don't, you know, that's what the... What kind of guy his age doesn't get regular anyway? Let alone the president.

As Biden says, anyway. Yeah. But look, I think that Democrats have to find a way to genuinely celebrate some of the policy achievements because we don't want to move back to a Democratic Party that doesn't –

have a worker-centered politics, a belief that there should be state intervention, that there shouldn't be blanket trade, right? I mean, just because Trump's blanket tariffs aren't working doesn't mean that the Democrats now should start celebrating NAFTA or China's ascension into a world trade organization. I think Biden represented a break from unfettered globalization and separating that and being proud of that from his decision to run and owning up to that. And, you know,

other than maybe Dean Phillips or a few people, there are very few Democratic elected officials who weren't endorsing Biden and saying something or the other about why he would have been a good president. And we can just say we made a wrong judgment in light of what has come out. At least Dean went for it. But Congressman Khanna, always a pleasure to have you in the studio. Appreciate it. Always enjoy it. Thank you.

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Elon Musk made a big announcement, actually in a pretty casual way yesterday he was asked

during a conference over Zoom, whether he would, well, I don't know, it could have been whatever else, not Skype, Skype is gone, but it could have been Google Meet, who knows. He was asked about his political donations, the future of his political donations, which again, he donated just a crazy amount of money. 300 million almost. Yeah, almost 300 million just in the last cycle. So Republicans, he has this America PAC, have been really building up an infrastructure around politics

in anticipation of future donations from Elon Musk. Let's take a listen to what he said. I think in terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future. And why is that? I think I've done enough. Is it because of blowback? Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it. I don't currently see a reason.

It's easy to read into that some awkwardness. It's always kind of baked into Elon Musk, yes, but some awkwardness in his relationship with the Republican Party, with Donald Trump. My takeaway was he seems kind of bitter almost, although it can be hard to tell with Musk because he's...

It's hard to read. That's just standard. Yeah. Yeah. So this was at Bloomberg's Cutter Economic Forum in Doha, which is just kind of hilarious in and of itself. But that was Musk zooming into it. Again, almost $300 million in the last election cycle, a big pack that Republicans have been counting on.

My take on this is it's actually kind of good for the Republican Party to not be tiptoeing around Elon Musk for the sake of getting hundreds of millions of dollars from him in an election cycle. So just from a populist standpoint, that's a good thing. Anti-corruption standpoint maybe is one way to put it. That's a good thing. And on CNBC, he acknowledged that he...

took a beating for his entry into the arena. He blamed it on propaganda from the mainstream media. Let's roll F2. You were a somewhat divisive figure two years ago, but now you really are. I mean, there are people who love you, but there are a lot of people who dislike you, some of whom were your customers. And I wonder, was it worth the undertaking at Doge and everything else that you've done and how outspoken you've been in terms of the things you believe in?

to antagonize so many potential buyers and/or users of things like a RoboTag? Well, I mean, unfortunately, what I've learned is that legacy media propaganda is very effective at making people believe things that aren't true. What would an example of that be? That I'm a Nazi, for example. And how many legacy media

publications, talk shows, whatever, tried to claim that I was a Nazi because of some random ham gesture at a rally where all I said was that my heart goes out to you and I was talking about space travel. And yet, the legacy media promoted that as though that was a deliberate Nazi gesture, when in fact every politician, any public speaker who's spoken for any length of time has made the exact same gesture, and yet there's still people out there

uh and i've never harmed us i've never harmed a single person you know what elon i was now you asked for an example i wasn't i wasn't even gonna talk to you about it because yeah and so this has had uh commercial damage to it in particular tesla the most i guess consumer facing of of his companies you can put up um f3 this article in the bulwark uh highlights uh one guy who uh paid 110 000 a year ago for a cyber truck now being offered uh 54 000 for it by carvana there are an enormous number of

unsold cyber trucks kicking around. But things could be turning around and, you know, maybe thanks to his involvement in politics in the end, put up F4. There's...

Elon Musk apparently reached out to Pete Hegseth saying that he'd be happy to collaborate with the construction of this new Golden Dome that we talked about earlier in the program. Donald Trump is going to keep us safe from the missile barrages that he apparently expects to come our way and is going to build us an Iron Dome times gold program.

And Elon Musk wants a piece of this $500 billion project. Well, that's what the CBO says it was cost. Trump says it's basically going to be a tiny fraction of that. If you're a betting man, you always take the over on any Pentagon contract. Elon Musk, a betting man, would like a piece of that action. So on the one hand, Musk's saying politics has been really bad for me. For the foreseeable future, I'm not going to be investing.

At the same time, he's still hoping he's going to be able to continue to get government contracts, which in our pay-to-play system requires some involvement in politics, but it doesn't require the level of...

that he's been involved in. This unprecedented, like, I'm going to be your banker kind of thing, role that he was playing. And I'm curious how, you know, Democrats were nervous that Elon Musk's super PAC was, and I think some Republicans were nervous too, privately, that it was going to

turn Trump into not, not dictator in the old sense, but like a guy who can basically dictate anything to the Republican party. Because if you step out of line, here's my man, Elon, who's going to put $10 million into a super PAC and is going to destroy you in the next primary. More than that. And they basically said that explicitly. Um, and that would give a president an amount of power over his party that no

No president really has ever had before. But it almost seems like Trump can do that anyway. He doesn't even need the money. Just his own kind of power and influence within the party can do it. Well, primaries, yeah, I think in the primaries maybe, but in general elections, I mean, I think we've talked about this in the Wisconsin situation.

Supreme Court election that Elon Musk actually went to Green Bay and threw his cheese hat on. Said Western civilization was at stake. Said Western civilization was at stake. I think we're right. Our coverage has been correct to pinpoint that as the moment in which Musk started to slowly disentangle himself from the Trump administration, at least in public view. It does seem like that's happening privately. It does seem like he's gradually spending less and less time

near the White House, in the White House, and in Washington, D.C. And luckily for him, he's heavily invested in Eastern civilization, too. And space civilization. Many civilizations. Yeah, he's covered. The bases are covered, yes. But I think part of that is because he wanted to be able to wield so much easy power in that that Wisconsin election was a test case.

post-2024 general election of Musk being able to come in, register tons of new Republican voters by offering money, like bribing people to register to vote, and then just come in and flick your finger and flick of the wrist, and you've totally changed. You've bought an election, essentially.

he was testing that, he was trying that, and it didn't work. And so now in retrospect, the way Democrats framed the election in Wisconsin as sort of a test case for whether or not Musk can buy his way to complete and total domination politically of the United States, that framing looks pretty good because it seems to have been a message to him that he cannot, that it will not be that easy, and that if anything, his attempt to do that has become a sort of

What's there an albatross for the Republican Party that wants to have a new populist?

messaging, wants to have a new populist brand, and you have a billionaire coming in and sort of openly bribing people to register to vote and trying to buy elections, again, openly, pretty openly trying to buy elections, spend a bunch of money, cash infusion, change the game. It didn't work. And it didn't work for a couple of reasons. Voters didn't like it. It's not great for Republicans. So that's

where at least I think on the public level, we're seeing him step back, genuinely step back. But whether or not that investment, because we can put this funny post from Tim Miller on the screen, F3, this is about a guy who bought his Cybertruck for 110 grand and then was offered 54,000 back for it by Carvana. It's a long bulwark story about how they say in their subheading, Trump killed Tesla.

And obviously it's true that Tesla is struggling immensely. Some of these cars are struggling immensely, although Tesla's valuation has always been about more than just the cars. It's also the technology. I mean, it's primarily probably like the FSD, full self-driving technology that's in the cars. Nevertheless, the Cybertruck in particular has struggled for reasons that aren't just Trump related, but are definitely Trump related too. So if you thought that that was representative of Musk taking a big hit,

It actually may turn out that the Tesla hit is nothing compared to the gain for SpaceX, for Starlink, and for other Musk properties because he's now built up tons of goodwill with the Trump administration going forward. He has great connections with Pete Hegseth. And by the way, that's why people influence Puddle.

to get the influence when they want it. For example, when there's massive contracts being peddled. Half a trillion dollar Golden Dome contract available. Yeah. And hey, look, I'm rooting for Tesla. We need more, you know, we need electric vehicle companies and we need American ones. So I hope he pulls this off. And I'm also very delighted that he's tweeting much less.

Because God that was so much less that was so obnoxious to just see him constantly in your feed It was nothing to do about it. It wasn't obnoxious so much as it was just like watching a slow-motion Cybertruck crash right like it was painful and he would he just would keep elevating like cat turd and Ian Miles Chong and everybody's fees You're not you're not doing the world a service

with that, or yourself. - He was openly admitting that they were half-baked. He was like, sometimes I'll be right, sometimes I'll be wrong. And for a billionaire to be so casual about these pronouncements, that even if he wants them to have less power, even if he wants people to realize, this is just my half-baked, two in the morning thoughts,

It's not how people interpret things that are coming out of the mouth of a billionaire. And one of the best things culturally about him is that he's always been interesting. Yeah, that's true. And he stopped being interesting. He became boring. He became a reply guy. He became boring. Yeah, I think that's right. No pun intended on it.

his company. And so maybe he'll get his interesting mojo back. Yeah, it wasn't even good for like his personal brand. Terrible. Many different levels. So we'll see. But if you had said on January 21st, for example, it's May 21st, so exactly five months ago that

You know, Elon Musk or four months ago, whatever, I can't count. Keep that in mind for all of the economic segments. I know you all already, many of you already do. But if you have on January 21st, first someone coming to you and saying by May 21st, Elon is saying he's giving no more political donations and basically he's done with Doge. I think a lot of people would have been like, whoa, what happened? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and Russ Vogt is taking over Doge and Russ Vogt is much more dangerous probably person than Elon because he's methodical and...

He's like a revolutionary. Depends on your perspective. I mean, if you support the government becoming more limited, relatively limited, then Russ is definitely less dangerous because Elon is more of like a crony capitalist than, like Russ is an opponent of crony capitalism, like ideologically. So we'll see where that goes. Yes, we will. And we touched on this briefly while recording.

Ro Khanna was here. But the news that broke during the show is that Representative Jerry Connolly of Virginia has died of cancer. This will create a special election. It'll give Republicans one extra vote cushion as they're pushing through their big, beautiful bill. But on a personal level, you know, Connolly took a lot of heat for despite

facing cancer, running for... Terminal cancer. What turned out to be terminal. He thought he was going to beat it. The top position on the oversight committee. It was a bad prognosis. It was a bad prognosis. And not being up to the task. And I think he deserved criticism for that, misreading that moment. I have a soft spot for him. He was elected in 2008. So he came in in this... There were two...

big waves of Democrats that came in in 2006 and then again in 2008. And both those classes were a big part of the 2009 and 2010 Obama rush of legislation, which created the CFPB, the Affordable Care Act, and on and on. And so

He was always in the Speaker's lobby, I think to his dying days almost, which means that he was out off of the floor constantly.

just hamming it up with reporters, always willing to be transparent about where he was, giving good quotes, and also giving good intel. And he represents a, it was a swing district at the time. Now it's a little bit more democratic, so it's not like he was a Democratic Socialist of America champion. But he was well-liked and a charming guy. He came up

Just a machine politician. Fairfax Board of Supervisors for a decade plus and then member of Congress. He's not upending politics, but as far as a machine politician goes, a good guy. He'll be missed on that level.

People have friendly memories of him, certainly, that people have shared. Those machine politicians, many of them. A lot of them are good dudes. They're very nice. They're in the right field. That's why they're successful. They love back slapping. They love the chicken dinners. Yeah, they do. They're super extroverted, gregarious. Yeah, 100%. He was also Jamal Khashoggi's representative, and I was always grateful to him for that.

For raising the alarm before we knew that he was that Khashoggi had been killed he was because he went into the consulate and I heard immediately that like from people close to his his fiance were like he hasn't come out and so there was about a week where There was still some hope that he was alive and there could be enough pressure put on Saudi Arabia that he would be released that we didn't know at the time he'd been killed right there in the consulate but but Connolly was outspoken and like in real time. So that was a

I credit him for that. Who's back on the show tomorrow, Ryan? Are you here with Crystal? Yes. Great. Something to look forward to. And I think it's just you and me on the Friday show this week? That sounds right. All right. Well, plenty more to come. Maybe we'll get a special guest or something. Yeah. It's Sager's baby. Just the baby. Not Sager. Just the baby.

For free to show. Yeah, that's right. All right, well, stick around for that. BreakingPoints.com. If you want to see the second half of the Friday shows, you get the show in your inbox early every day. So make sure to subscribe there if you can. If you can't, just make sure to subscribe. We appreciate it very much. And Ryan and Crystal, we'll see you back here tomorrow. See you then. See you then.

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