6/12/25: China Mineral Deal Guillotine, Trump Freaked Over Elon 'Burn Book', Zohran Surges In NYC
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At the same time, we have some updates on the U.S. and China. So Trump says a deal is done. The details are a little bit different. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. Trump said that the deal restoring a China trade truce is done. So let's make this very clear. This is about a deal over the truce, not necessarily a deal between the two countries, although that's originally kind of the way that it was sold. So

this was after the update that we gave everybody on Tuesday. The U.S. and China met for the very second time on their trade talks after there was some indication that things might fall apart. The impetus for those talks was China's holdup of rare earth minerals, and that really is the keystone of this entire deal. So what we see right now is that the

Tariffs are alleged they're going to stay at the current levels that were signed at a deal in Switzerland about a month or so ago. Trump said in his post that the U.S. would set a total of 55 percent tariffs, which, by the way, is still pretty high, as opposed to the 30 percent previously. And then China would keep its current reciprocal where things are right now.

However, what we see right now is that the framework would, quote, restore the pact they agreed to in Switzerland, but increase and freeze for six months the speed up of these rare earth minerals coming to the United States. One of the reasons why the administration was so desperate to get that rare earth mineral pipeline done.

back to U.S. production is that we're so wholly reliant on it. We did a thing yesterday about this mineral samarium, which the U.S. military needs for fighter jets and was cut off overnight on China. There were several others they covered here. Don't they have 100% of the supply? They have a 100% capacity. I mean, what's annoying about the term rare earth is it's not

It's about refining capacity. That's really what it's all about. It's not even necessarily where they're from. It's about the ability to refine it and to make it usable in production. So can we put the next please part on the screen? This is the most important part. And we flagged at the time,

The tariffs itself, of course, mattered, but the cutoff of the minerals and the export licenses by China, which was immediately put into place after the trade war was announced, is the absolute most impactful thing that they did. And it's not a surprise as to why Trump eventually folded on those China tariffs and why now he has been granted this, quote, six-month limit on the ease of rare earth export licenses. But I mean, it doesn't take a genius to see six months is not a long time, okay? Mm-hmm.

six months is basically like a hovering guillotine over the U.S. economy, the U.S. production for so many different critical things that basically makes it so that they have an incredible amount of leverage at this time. And this is part of the problem over the lack of planning. And I would fold in the build back better, or sorry, not the

the big, beautiful bill into this is there is not really one ounce of serious investment to make sure that we're refining these minerals here or to pump billions into production. I mean, if anything, the criticism of the IRA that it was all green energy. And I'm like, look, fine, then pump it into whatever, like for industrialization,

and all these other plants and things that we want to be able to compete or at least have autonomy from the Chinese here. But instead, it's really the opposite. I mean, effectively, what they're saying here within these bills is they're not only not investing, but the tariff negotiations are actually ones where it seems to actually just extend tariffs.

like a lot of the previous relationship. It's really not, you know, trying to solve a lot of the autonomy problems that we had previously. Like right now he's like, okay, we'll continue, you know, this thing for six months. There's not even really a plan to like try and bring TSMC here or anything like that. So it is, I think there's still big, big problems going forward. And if anything, this could actually offset any serious investment that was being made here in the U.S. Yeah. I don't know if you said, we covered this when you were out,

But some U.S. automakers were looking at manufacturing some auto parts in China so that they could have access to these, you know, to what they the materials that they need in the context of this export controls that, again, like this was so thoroughly predictable, which, again, shows you how haphazard.

and poorly thought out, this entire quote-unquote strategy, I don't know if you can even call it there if that is too favorable, has been where there's no, okay, these are the industries we need to reshore, and here's the industrial policy that goes with it, and here's how we're building a coalition to make sure that we can do this and stand up to China in this way or that. No, none of that. All of it's by the seat of the pants. And we have another indication of that. So there are sort of

conflicting statements coming out of the Trump administration about this upcoming July deadline in which previously they've said, okay, we're putting in place this 90-day deadline. We're going to have 90 deals in 90 days. How is that going? And that 90-day deadline is fast approaching. The

the new line out of the administration was, okay, well, if we don't come to deals, we're just going to unilaterally put in place tariffs. I don't know, we'll have a new liberation day chart or something like that. Besson was asked yesterday, and he said that Trump is likely to extend the pause on the tariffs past that. However, Trump yesterday said that he may actually move up the timeline and just start sending out unilateral letters saying, like, this is your new tariff. In any case, let's go ahead and take a listen to what Scott Besson had to say yesterday.

Very few of the trade deals have been announced yet. I think most people in Congress and around the world would like to know what's going on. Should America be preparing for Liberation Day 2.0? What do we plan for July 9th and July 2nd?

I would say, as I have repeatedly said, that there are 18 important trading partners. We are working toward deals on those, and it is highly likely that those countries that are negotiating or trading blocks, as in the case of the EU, who are negotiating in good faith, we will roll the date forward to continue the good faith negotiations. If someone is not negotiating, then we will not.

So in contrast to that, Trump said that he would set unilateral tariffs in two weeks. So who the hell knows? In addition, Scott Besson also revealed that there is a new TDS. It's not Trump derangement syndrome now. It's also tariff derangement syndrome. Let's take a listen to that. I will say that I believe that the economic impetus, the certainty, because it

There is a duality between the critics of this administration. All I hear is tariffs. It's like TDS has become tariff derangement syndrome. And that all I hear about is uncertainty from tariffs, uncertainty from tariffs. But then the same side wants to give us uncertainty on taxes. So let's get this bill done and get the certainty on taxes done.

We will have certainty on tariffs within some window over the coming quarters. Amen. And then the U.S. economy can realize its full potential. So tariff derangement syndrome. Maybe people are bringing that up to you a lot because, number one, you are the Treasury Secretary. And number two, because...

It's actually a real and major issue for the economy and specifically for businesses trying to figure out what the hell they're going to do and how to plan and how to adjust. Look, everything right now for the administration is they both want to wave a victory flag because, for example, let's put this next one, please, up on the screen. U.S. inflation rose only about 0.1 percent in May from the prior month, which was less than expected.

But part of the reason for that was a folding of unilateralism on the tariffs. So they both want to say that people are deranged about the tariffs. Part of the reason why some of the economic data that's been coming in so far is not catastrophic is specifically because they were treated from their own policy. Same with the S&P 500, with inflation, with shortages. But I will say, look, I really don't think people have grappled at the political level of what those tariffs really meant for a lot of people.

I mean, no matter what, especially if you're in a white collar and you're working in any sort of business planning, accounting, finance. I mean, this was the story. It's very rare in this country to have the government do something and it directly impacts your business or directly impacts your thinking. Most people are like, yeah, whatever.

I live in Charlotte, okay? Why do I care about what's going on in Los Angeles? Maybe at a conceptual level, but not like this is going to affect my business, right? And I think that the tariffs in particular at a consumer finance level, you know, and broadly just like people working, people worrying about things being able to buy, that's something that really tapped into

into people. And we see it also with kind of the absurdity around a lot of this planning. We're not going to be reliant on China anymore. It's like, okay, well, we have the biggest tax bill every five years. Where's the dollars to make sure that that's not going to happen? I don't see a single one right now. Same with these rare earth minerals. People do actually, I think, would support billions, billions of dollars to be pumped into making sure that these types of reliance on China would not be there. But that's not broadly where things are. And that's actually a biggest failure

I see with this whole strategy. What is this about? Because at the very beginning, if we just came off of this, to me, it's about autonomy. It's about being a real country is one that's able to produce its own weapons, produce its own food, produce its own energy, and produce the things that it needs to function. Yes, we can have trade, but in a time of war, in a time of crisis, we need to make sure this hedge fund stuff that pumps our economy right now, it's all bullshit. Same with

AI. That's not what matters. Go and ask Russia, as you can see happening for them right now. Yes, they've had sanctioned to death. They're fine. And that's part of what you want to do. That's what makes you anti-fragile, in a sense. And we don't have that. And I think people really have a sense of that. But that's not what this 59% tariff or whatever on the islands or the tariffs on Vietnam, none of that made any strategic sense. So he really gave away a lot of that

narrative. And in particular, you really see it with the approach to these China talks, where arguably the area where we need the most autonomy from China on this rare earth minerals, refining critical minerals supply chains is exactly where we seem to be giving up the most ground. And for what? Like, so soybeans are getting traded?

fine. You know, like I said, food is important, but that's, that's not the headline about what we're all actually concerned about here. Vitamins, pharmaceuticals. Uh, and so I don't know. I think it's almost like the classic Trump strategy of like causing something and then fixing it and declaring victory. But, uh,

You know, this is not a game. This is very serious stuff. I talked yesterday about the drone attack by the Ukrainians on the Russian forces. We are Russia. Like, people have not got—we are Russia. We are the over-invested superpower with this massive infrastructure, empire across the world, with the ultra-exclusive guided missile destroyers and bombers and all that. The Houthis are able to withstand it.

We're Russia in that situation. And I don't think people have really grappled with that. We don't have the drone. Do you know who has the drones? The Chinese. They have the best drone technology in the whole world. They've been planning drone swarms for a decade. 90% of drone production in China. Of course. This is what people are not grappling with the asymmetry of a lot of warfare and even in an economy of where we are right now.

And I'm really worried about it because this is exactly where if you give away something like this and something pops off, you have no leverage anymore. You know, Trump famously, like, we have all the cards. It's like, yeah, maybe with Ukraine, but that's a tiny little nation. That's nothing compared to China about what we're talking about. This is serious stuff. I mean, the rare earth thing alone. I know.

was enough to bring the Trump administration to their knees. And the Chinese reportedly like drove a really hard bargain on that. And like Sagar said before, they're like, you can have six months, you can have six months and then we'll see.

Um, you know, I think broadly part of what was so damaging to Trump about the liberation day tariffs was it really was kind of an emperor has no clothes moment. Right. He's always been very strong politically on the economy. I think, I think that is the number one reason he got reelected is because people felt like, you know, when I think back to the first Trump administration, I think I was doing a little better economically and there's all this, you know,

decades of mythology about Trump the great businessman and Trump the dealmaker and all these sorts of things. And so this has been a real key to his political strength and power is that people thought he was some sort of like economic genius. And when you looked at that chart, if you thought about it for five seconds, you were like,

This makes no sense. This is going to be incredibly destructive. It's chaotic. There's no plan. They can't even tell us day to day what these things are meant to achieve.

I think it was a real emperor has no clothes moment that hurt him in his key area of strength. Yes, immigration has been important to him from the beginning and other issues as well. But that has been the real promise and the core brand of Trump is he's the dealmaker. He's the businessman. He'll make sure you're doing OK economically. And people were over were willing to overlook a lot online.

on that promise. So when you see something so insane, so unjustifiable, where there's so few people who are willing to go out and just full-throated like, yes, this is a good idea, and here's where we're headed, I think that was a blow to him politically that will be very difficult to recover from because once you start seeing him as sort of just like

chaotic and wild and undisciplined and unplanned on the economy, you don't really unsee that after that happens. Totally. And yeah, I mean, it's also exposed just a lot of things. Like now we have this bond problem, right? Right. With the U.S. debt. And I was arguing with several friends of mine because they were like, we were talking about the debt and we're like, oh, there's going to be a debt crisis. And I was like, everybody in my entire lifetime had told me there was going to be a debt crisis. It was completely and totally wrong. So they're basically like Iraq-

you know, Iraq, Saddam Hussein, WMD people, in my mind. If you study U.S. history, every debt crisis is because of what? It's because of a massive shift in geopolitical orientation and war. So we just talked about Iran. That's what would cause a debt crisis, just so everybody knows. It is an actual massive impact to the Straits of Hormuz, supply chain and all of the energy supply. JP Morgan forecasted this morning we could go to $120 per barrel.

That's what causes a goddamn debt crisis. That's actually what we also see with the tariffs. The reason why, and as you remember, the bond markets are what forced Trump's hands. That was not because of U.S. spending. It was because of a loss of faith in the U.S. as the primary guarantor and world's reserve currency.

currency. So by attacking that and the very foundations of the global American empire, which is both our force, but it's really our financial system, very much in the same way that the British financial system was the backstop of the whole sun never sets mercantilism thing. That is really the major effect that he has had. And so look, deficits and all that, people know my feelings. I think it's all bullshit as long as the US is at the top.

But staying at the top is the reason. When you fall, then okay. Then suddenly you do have to worry about the debt and the deficit. I mean, look, the world in – I mean, reading the accounts of like John Maynard Keynes and of other British economists in 1919 are terrifying because I see us in those. They came out of the sport and they won.

you know, technically, but they really lost if you really, you know, look at the overall destruction of their empire. And it's like they fall from the top of this empire and great European power to millions dead on the Somme and communism and socialism fears at home and having to pay all this debt from this war and all that. They never recovered from that.

And we, again, we're the Brits in this scenario. And that's actually what worries me the most about it. And, you know, the tariffs and all that, look, it's not going to cause it per se. But, you know, these things, like empires don't just fall over a single thing. Nobody in 1919 woke up and said the British Empire is over as we know it. It took until the 50s for it to fall apart. But in retrospect, it's obvious. And a lot of people saw it at the time, too. So that's what I worry about.

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Call the hell and gone murder line at six, seven, eight, seven, four, four, six, one, four, five. Listen to hell and gone murder line on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, shall we talk about our foremost oligarch? Speaking of crumbling empires, uh,

So, Elon and Trump, you guys know the backstory. They're going at it. Elon, in particular, going very hard in the paint, accused Trump of being a pedo, said that he bought the election for him, said that he should be impeached, said accurately that the tariffs suck, and he projects that there will be a recession in the next half of the year. So, I mean, going about as hard as you possibly can in areas where Trump's ego is the largest and the most fragile.

So now at 3 or 4 a.m. yesterday, we get this tweet from Mr. Musk. He says, I regret some of my posts about President Trump last week. They went too far.

Now, I have to say, Candace Owens actually had a good tweet about this. She was like, so did they go too far because you were correct about him being in the Epstein files and now you feel bad about it? Or did they go too far because you were lying about him being in that scene files? Could you be a little more specific?

specific about what exactly is going on here, because I don't know about you, but for me, if someone goes out and accuses me of being a pet, that's going to be a hard thing to take back. Yes. Especially, listen, the Epstein thing is, it's a real problem for Trump. He was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. He was on that plane. We know in the flight logs numerous times, there's pictures of, there's videos, et cetera. And now suddenly

suddenly his administration is very weird and really dodging and lying and spinning, et cetera, when it comes to actually releasing the Epstein files. So in any case, um, he has apparently a, some sort of a, uh,

relationship mending situation is unfolding where J.D. Vance and Susie Wiles approached Elon in particular. And we're like, all right, let's try to smooth the waters here, calm the waters here. And Elon did. Now we have the reporting also talk to Trump.

before putting this post out. So that's kind of where things stand at this point. I really have, I really just have no idea. We have some comments here from the first, sort of the press secretary about the Elon rapprochement. Let's take a listen.

About Elon Musk, he issued an apology this morning. Has the president accepted the apology or does he think it's too little too late? The president acknowledged the statement that Elon put out this morning and he is appreciative of it and we are continuing to focus on the business of the American people.

We are appreciative of it. Some of the background of this is actually kind of interesting as well. So, you know, this whole thing appears to have been brokered, like you said, by J.D. and by Susie Wiles. Trump receives this phone call. We have the reporting. We can put that on the screen. Late on Monday night, after days of Trump dodging Elon's calls, it comes after he speaks privately with Susie Wiles and with J.D. Vance about a path to the truce.

Wiles told associates, quote, she had come to like working with Musk and was one of his regular points of contact. I'm sure that's a lie. That is bullshit, by the way. That's not what I heard at all. Definitely a lie. But anyway, so what we kind of see inside of all of this is there – I'll say this. Why they want him back on side is interesting to me.

Because he's obviously a huge political problem. The money, yeah, it's good. But what? There's a dearth of rich billionaires like wanting to give – you know, come on. Let's not kid ourselves here. The heir of – what's the guy's name? Timothy Mellon? Yeah. The heir to the Carnegie Mellon fortune. He wired Trump like $55 million during the campaign. He actually would have been one of the biggest funders if it weren't for Elon.

So I don't think money is the issue. I don't even really know what it is. We had this story about people who are worried about the Elon Byrne book, like the things that he might know. I think that's very possible, right? So some of the possible inside details about what he knows about the administration. D4, please, guys, can we put that on the screen? But I'm curious, why do they want him back on side? He's not a political asset. I think we all know that. No.

No, he is not a political asset, which is part of why I thought it was so weird. People like Ro Khanna and others who were like, let's reach out to Elon. I'm like, how did this go? Like putting aside the principles, which should be important. How did this go for Republicans? Has this been great for the Trump administration? How did this go with that Wisconsin Supreme Court race? Was Elon a major asset there? Did that really help them, you know, be able to lose by double digits in that race? So, yeah.

I mean, I can only speculate, right? So from the beginning, it was weird to me how, well, it was weird to me throughout the Trump administration how deferential he was to Elon. That was weird to begin with. Then when Elon goes nuclear, when Elon goes total scorched earth with you're a pedo and I won you in the election and you should be impeached and J.D. Mann should replace you.

When that happened, and Trump responded in this very meek way, like not at all characteristic of the way he usually goes so hard, and he'll invent stories, and he knows he's got a gift for humiliation, right? He knows what he's doing in that department.

He didn't do that. And in fact, J.D. Vance was on with Theo Mon while this was all unfolding. They were recording that interview. And according to the reports, at least, Trump counseled J.D. Vance to be diplomatic in that conversation. In fact, before I heard that report and I just listened to J.D. Vance on with Theo Mon talking about this.

I thought, I don't know if Trump is going to feel like he went strong enough for him. I don't know if he did enough here to really project his loyalty. But apparently he was following the advice and the counsel of Trump and what he wanted him to do.

So, I mean, I can only assume that either he is worried about, like, whatever Elon knows about the Epstein files, or perhaps he thinks Elon knows something about the election, whether that's true or not, that he doesn't want to come out. Or there is some other, you know, unknown something or fear of some unknown something that Elon could reveal that would be genuinely damaging and a problem for him. Now, listen, there are things in the public sphere we know are carts that Elon holds and

Trump has way more. He's the president of the United States. There's no doubt about that. Elon controls Twitter. Twitter's really important to the right right now. That's very significant. You know, that is like the backbone of Republican propaganda efforts is on Twitter right now. So that is important and consequential. Um,

Elon controls Starlink. Starlink is even more important and consequential as communications backbone, which I think is intentional on Elon's part to have that kind of control. It's worth remembering in the context of the Ukraine war, I mean, first of all, Elon saying, okay, you can use our Starlink satellites for your communications, extremely consequential for Ukraine. And then he...

him as an individual being able to say, you know, I don't want you to use it for Crimea, so we're going to take that offline, whether you think that's the right decision or not, having one person with that kind of control running his own foreign policy shows you how important Starlink truly, truly is. SpaceX

NASA is very dependent on SpaceX at this point. You know, the International Space Station, very dependent on SpaceX at this point. This is a, I think, colossal indictment of the move that has, you know, occurred over successive administrations towards privatization, not only of NASA, but of all sorts of government, you know, formerly government held capacity. And especially when you're talking about into the hands of

one specific individual. So what was one of the first things that Elon said when Trump is like, I may pull your contracts, Elon's like, okay, fine, we'll decommission the particular spaceship that they use for the International Space Station. So these things are all known, but I still don't think that that is enough to really account for the very meek way that Trump has approached this and his willingness to

right away to sort of, you know, extend a hand and try to calm the waters here with Elon. So I have to, I have to assume, because one last thing here, you know, to get to the burn book piece, it's not that these Republican aides are like, oh, I know he knows this about us. And so I'm concerned. They're like,

He was in all of our departments. Right, exactly. Starlink was put in the White House to suck up all kinds of data. He's got his little minions, his little doge minions who are loyal to him. About 100 of them is what I saw spread throughout agencies, throughout the government. So their fear is just like, we don't know what he knows or what sort of tea he could spill or anything.

anyone will also just make some shit up too. That's not beyond him either. So it could also be one of those scenarios where Trump's just like, I don't know. He could know some things that would be really damaging and that puts some fear into him. That's right. You don't even need a conspiracy theory. It's like somebody who's in the room. This happened...

so many times in the first Trump administration. Somebody was in the room, would come out of the room, and then they would denounce Trump and they would tell us about all the things that was going on. That's how the Woodward books happened. That's how all this other stuff happened, right? And so here, I really think that that might be one of the more animating ones. The Twitter thing is also important. - But in all of those instances though, it's not like Trump was afraid to go after them. - Sure, yeah, but I think-- - Or looking to mend fences.

Well, Twitter, though, is actually the one that you mentioned, which is probably the most important because Twitter is like the beating heart. See, you said Republican propaganda. I really don't think it's that. It's about elite conversation. Like that is what Twitter ultimately is, is the place where narratives are set. Yes, Republican and Democratic, but like it is the beating heart of politics as we know it. And I think that's because of that.

that they see the power and they're worried about, let's say, the algorithm of fundraising and so much more. And broadly, I mean, we shouldn't take this for granted either. I mean, they did buy a lot of their own BS. I mean, Elon was like deified into a god ever since he bought Twitter amongst a lot of Republicans. So, you know, you don't necessarily want that person to turn against you. And so for a lot of them, maybe not necessarily the top of the White House, but let's say, you know, Republican congressman officials. Remember, there's like a Doge caucus.

literally in the House of Representatives. Like, there's all kinds of stuff that's happening inside of all of the party apparatus. I wouldn't be surprised either. You know, the RNC, they're probably deeply integrated with Elon. So he does have leverage, you know, of course, not nearly as much as Donald Trump. The Epstein thing is real. I mean, this administration is acting so weird about

- I agree, I agree. - And Epstein said Trump and him were besties for a decade, right? You had Pam Bondi say that we've got thousands of hours of videos we're trying to go through and that's why it's taking so long for anything to come out. Then you have Kash Patel go on with Joe Rogan and say there's no videos. - I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players...

all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.

Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Okay.

Every week on "Hell and Gone Murder Line," I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into,

Call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

These things are not. No, that is nuts. I agree. Like they don't go together. Yeah. You had that crazy influencer boondoggle where they all came out with their photo op, with their binders of information that was already widely publicly available since 2015. And actually Gawker had released more than was even in those binders.

You had Cash Patel and Dan Bongino go on Fox and say, oh, no, no, we know. We know that he killed himself. Like, we can tell you definitively. Like, just trust us. Don't you think we would tell you the truth? Just trust us. He definitely killed himself. There's nothing to see here. You had Cash Patel tell Joe Rogan that the, actually, the cameras were on in the cell, which that is the opposite

opposite of what we've been told this whole entire time. Whenever Trump gets asked about Epstein, he gets really weird. He, you know, we showed you the clip before. He gets asked, what about JFK? He gets asked about something else. He's like, yes, release the files. Yes, release the files. And then when it's Epstein, it's, yeah, well, I don't know.

I don't know, privacy and concern, maybe a little bit less on that one. And that he always is like that with the Epstein thing. So, I mean, I yeah, I don't put I do not put off the table whatsoever that that also could be a core part of why he is so reluctant to burn the bridge and go completely scorched earth with Elon in a way that he has not been reluctant with literally anyone else who has crossed him.

It is weird. There's no question. The Epstein thing is absolutely crazy. I still think it's the Israel connection. I really do, just especially considering the Israel firsters that are all in the administration. Because if I had to guess, the smoking gun stuff on the Mossad in Israel must be insane on Epstein. Like the money, the control, what they were asking of him, for what exact purpose he all had. So I think that that is still yet the most unexplored.

And really the most under-discussed element of all of this. You know, everyone's like, oh, the compromise. I'm like, listen, I knew that was there. I'm like, I want to know at the highest levels of the government how this was all working. for foreign policy for understanding the way that, you know, this foreign government has operated within our own country. And yes, I was on with Pierce Morgan this week and we were talking about all of this stuff and what the Republican, Roger Stone was on there. Oh, what did Roger say? I'm actually curious. Yeah. I mean,

It's not a great format for him. Yeah, right. It was not a great. He needs a one-on-one. He definitely does. He's a talker. I think older people, too, struggle in that kind of panel format. So he honestly didn't have a lot to say. But basically, peers and the two Republicans on the panel, Clay Travis and Roger Stone on the panel, were like, don't you think if there was something in the Epstein files about Trump that Democrats would have leaked it?

And I didn't have a chance to jump in. But my rejoinder would be like, number one, we know there are Bill Clinton associations, so they wouldn't want that piece out. And, you know, unlike you, I'm not a hack. So I'm willing to say, you know, this is this is a bipartisan situation here. That could be very embarrassing. But number two, the Israel piece.

Like, yeah, no American administration, which have been extraordinarily pro-Israel and hardcore Zionists, are going to want to reveal his connections to Mossad and that he was very likely, you know, based on what we know at this point, very likely an intelligence asset for them. And that's what he was up to. So, you know, to me, it's no mystery why this stuff stays under wraps, because it's both the whole intention, the whole project was creating material that was politically damning

for both parties to exercise control. And then, you know, the like the reason for that is also politically damning and, you know, something that no American administration will want to come out. So, yeah, while I was while I was on paternity leave, I somehow fell down this YouTube rabbit hole at 2 a.m. about spies. And so I started listening. I knew a little bit about the case. The Jonathan Pollard case is insane.

Really? And it reminds me a lot of the whole Epstein thing. So Pollard is this guy working, I think it was at the NSA, and he's basically like a free-for-all, like he'll spy for anybody because he wants money. And he ends up hooking up with Mossad, and they pay him a lot of money to basically steal NSA or intelligence documents.

and smuggle them out and he gets for it. Okay, well, eventually he gets caught and he gets sentenced to prison for, I don't know, 30 some odd years for espionage. In that time, Pollard basically transforms himself into saying that because he was a Zionist Jew, that he was spying for Israel because he believed they were not getting enough intelligence. Benjamin Netanyahu thought

starts visiting Pollard in prison here in Washington. The entire Israeli government, they granted him citizenship. It became a point of diplomacy for that government to demand his release. Multiple Jewish billionaires in the United States petitioned President Clinton and other presidents since then till his release to be released from prison and be granted clemency because he had...

for an ally. And I was like, this is crazy. This guy is a straight-up traitor. Netanyahu visits him in prison. The moment he's off parole, he flies to Israel and he lives there now, currently. I was like... Was he raided by Netanyahu off the plane? Yeah, I could not...

believe the level of influence of their government to have the audacity to basically beg ours, every successive president, attorney general and others, to release him from prison. I mean, look, if a US asset was caught spying for Mossad or spying for us in Tel Aviv and they put him in jail, the Israelis would be outraged if we were like, hey, you got to release him.

Like, you know, this is, he's our guy. He's our citizen. You know, it's, oh, we're all friends here. And I couldn't believe that this was so out all in the open. And what really reminded me of it is that people like me who are saying all these things I am right now in the 90s and the 2000s were branded what? Rabbit anti-Semites for bringing all. And I was like, man, this machine. And it worked for a long time. It worked. It worked so well. And if I know this is bad,

And the level of control and all that they have over our politics is just immense. It's horrific. I could never even begin to like overstate what it is. But with the internet, we have a chance to be able to speak out on some of this. And things are, as hard as it is to believe, things are still a lot better. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players...

all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamush. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.

Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

The murderer is still out there.

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into...

Call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, that is actually a good transition to Zoran. Yeah. Who they are trying to run the he's an anti-Semite playbook against. And, you know, we've played some of the clips here that to me are just like mind blowing. The clip from the debate where they're like, well, you know, lightning round. Where would you go? First foreign trip as mayor, which, OK, why are you going on a foreign trip or whatever? And Zoran's like, I'm going to stay in New York. And they're like, OK.

But would you go to Israel? Will you commit to going to Israel? In a later response, he actually said, I'm not sure they would let me in because I'm a supporter of the BDS movement.

Which is – so here's this guy who a decade ago, inconceivable that he would be in the running for New York City. Inconceivable that he would be in the running for New York City mayor and smearing him as an anti-Semite would have worked. Now let's go ahead and put E3 up on the screen and then I'm going to play you some clips from his appearance on The Breakfast Club.

According to a new poll, this is the only one we have like this, so, you know, cards on the table, all that stuff. Everyone take it for a grain of salt. According to a new poll from the Public Policy Polling Survey, up four points over Andrew Cuomo among likely Dem primary voters. This was conducted last week. So this is also, I think, the first poll that we have, which is post-debate and post-AOC endorsement.

New York City does ranked choice voting. The poll's not ranked choice, so this would be basically like the first round, the result in the first round. It has never been the case. We've not seen any poll before that has him number one in the first round. And the dynamics of the race are such that, you know, in all the polling we've seen that does simulate ranked choice vote, he picks up votes.

as you go throughout the round because other, you know, more progressive candidates, basically their voters fall out, their second choice is Zoran or their third choice is Zoran or whatever. And there's a concerted, somewhat coordinated effort to not rank Cuomo on those ranked choice ballots whatsoever. In addition, this was really...

quite significant because the knock on him has been like, okay, he's doing good with like white progressives, but he hasn't been able to expand his base. He's supposed to be this democratic socialist running on freezing the rent and public grocery stores and free public buses and free childcare and all those sorts of things. This should be, he should want this working class base and he hasn't been able to pull it together. Well, we now have some indications that he is growing in some of those key demographic areas. Could put this piece up on the screen, which was really significant. This E4 guy's

His support continues to be strongest among white and Asian voters. But you now have 27 percent of black voters surveyed supported him. That's second only to Cuomo, who is somewhere around 40, as did nearly one third of Hispanic voters, an indication he's gaining multiracial support among New Yorkers. And in fact, a previous poll that had come out before this that had him losing to Cuomo after all of the rank choice voting only by two said,

had found that the demographics where he was performing the most poorly were also the demographics that knew the least about him, which to me was an indication that potentially he had a lot of room to grow. He also, Sager, had wildly higher favorability ratings than Andrew Cuomo, who, of course, you know, had to leave the governor's office in disgrace

both over sexual harassment and over his handling of COVID. He lied to Congress over, you know, with this report that they put together that undercounted COVID deaths in nursing homes because he was trying to hide the deadly impact of some of his COVID era policies. So he's got a lot of baggage, but he also has, you know, Cuomo is the iconic name in New York politics.

He has really coalesced as sort of like the establishment moderate figure in this race. And whether or not this poll is fully accurate, you can say at this point Zoran is certainly giving him a run for his money. Oh, I mean, this guy has he has performed better than anybody I have seen. Yeah.

right? Like in terms of, especially in terms of my expectations originally, I was like, I was like, look, no offense. I was like, I think this guy's going to lose by 50 points just from a kind of a cynical assumption around how U.S. politics broadly were, or New York City politics kind of has been. They elected Bloomberg and de Blasio for God's sake, right? Like this is not really a city that has rewarded upstarts, at least in the modern era. I will note, you know, Bloomberg did, uh,

endorsed Andrew Cuomo. And there is like some centrist energy around the guy. But in a way, Zoran may have gotten very lucky in that the person that they picked is this unpopular, not unpopular, but a scarred centrist figure of Cuomo who has the legacy of COVID, who has the fallout, the resigning, Me Too, you know? That stuff did a lot of damage to his brand going into this. And so he's not untainted. And so you have the rise of like,

online resistance energy to Donald Trump. And then you have Cuomo, who's not only this establishment figure, but just like a deeply gross figure who has been so like tied with the New York machine. And you put those two things together and you kind of do have a perfect storm. It's possible. We don't want to overstate it. Like that said, that pulls 500.

people. New York City is a population of millions. And also, rank choice screws everything up. Because yes, he may be the first choice in this poll, but the New York Times came out today and endorsed some guy I've literally never even heard of. And apparently, the New York Times endorsement is quite impactful in the state or in the city of New York, or at least it was last time around. I believe that.

No, I mean, look, this sounds crazy, but right. We're talking about high. We're talking about low turnout, New York City liberal elections like the New York Times endorsement. If I recall during the whole Andrew Yang situation, like it eventually did have some impact. And so I just have no idea how it is all going to play out. I do think he's going to do much better than we originally thought. At the very least, you know, the guy has gained himself a profile of some kind.

you know, going. Did they endorse Brad Lander? Yeah, that's who it is. Okay. Yeah. I'm like, who is that? Sorry. I apologize. I have no clue. Yeah. Like pretty progressive, but not, you know, democratic socialist level of progress. Well, I mean, here's the other thing that you have to hand it to Zora. I don't care where you are on the political spectrum. He's run a fantastic campaign. Oh, you know, he has this very consistent, clear cut messaging around. We are going to make New York affordable.

New York should be for everyone. And he's got some, you know, really digestible, concrete policy proposals that he has relentlessly offered in order to marry the message with the policy. And it's clearly working. I mean, this guy, he there are many other figures in this race who had a larger citywide profile than Zoran, even putting aside Cuomo, Brad Lander being one of them, Scott Stringer being another one, Andrew Adrian Adams being another one who had a

citywide profiles and were established politicians and would have been, if you were putting money down, much more likely to sort of occupy the lane as the progressive anti-Cuomo choice. And he has blown them out of the water with the strength of his campaign, his social media game, and he's very good. And I think you'll see that now in some of these clips that we can play you from The Breakfast Club. So he went on, I think it was yesterday, and he gets asked, you know, about Trump and

And he gets asked about Democratic Party leadership and, you know, how we need to move past that era. And Charlemagne seems to be pretty sympathetic to him. Let's go ahead and take a listen to this first part from Zoran about standing up to Trump. But I saw you say that in the debate, you know, you would be Trump's worst nightmare. But once again, why should that matter to anybody voting for you now? Because running against Donald Trump. No, but you are running against the authoritarianism that he's bringing to the city. So you think Cuomo is an authoritarian? No.

No, I think that there's too many commonalities between him and Donald Trump's record. And my point is that you don't want to have a mayor who has to pick up a phone call from someone who cut a $250,000 check to both him and Donald Trump. You want to have a mayor who's willing to fight for the city and have that be the thing that he's ultimately responsible for. And I think to your point,

We also have to be honest about how we lost this presidential election. You know, New York is the state that had the largest swing in the country towards Donald Trump, 11 and a half points. And it happened far from the caricature of Trump voters. It happened in the hearts of immigrant New York City. I went to Fordham Road in the Bronx. I went to Hillside Avenue in Queens. And when I asked New Yorkers there, almost all of whom were Democrats,

Who did you vote for and why? Many told me they didn't vote. Many told me they voted for Trump. And they told me they voted for him because they remembered having more money in their pocket four years ago for their rent, for their child care, for their groceries, even for their Metro card. They remember how they feel. And as insincere and ridiculous and horrific as we know Trump's policies to be, that is how people felt. Those are the decisions that they made. And when I asked these same New Yorkers, what would it take to bring you back to the Democratic Party?

They said a relentless focus on an economic agenda. So, Sagar, you see there how he turns this question, a challenging question to him about Trump, like why are you focused on Trump, into number one, you should care that Cuomo's getting money from the same guys. And he used these same sort of lines in the debate, I think, to great effect of like he's getting money from the same billionaires as Trump and that's something you should be concerned about.

And then he is immediately able to turn it to his message about affordability and how he's going to appeal to voters. And he goes right after that part, he goes through his free childcare and free bus fare and freezing the rent. He goes through his list of policy priorities. So, I mean, he's skilled. Look, he's a good communicator. He also has – he was a podcast guy. He was the online guy. He really learned a lot from a lot of the movement, from a lot of the Bernie Sanders wing. Yeah, that's true.

I've got a lot of differences with Mr. Zoran, but I will say I respect people who are underdogs, people who are able to use the internet and to use the new lessons of politics to be able to overcome things. And regardless of whether he wins or not, he is going to be a fixture of some kind in New York City politics. He could find himself running for Congress or for any other. He's a star. This is one of those campaigns where whether you win or lose, you won something, and you won something positive.

big, especially, I don't even know if he wants to necessarily remain just the city of New York. He could easily find himself vaulted to a member of Congress or who knows what AOC wants to do, right? If she decides to primary Chuck Schumer or if Chuck Schumer decides not to run, there's a lot of different things that are on the

Indeed. He also got asked about, you know, dumb leadership and failures of dumb leadership in the context of challenging Andrew Cuomo. I thought he responded to this well, too. Let's take a listen to that. You do have to throw that old regime under the bus because it's not just Cuomo. But that bus is going to be free.

OK, sure. But it's not just Cuomo in the Democratic Party. It's a lot of old leadership. It's the Chuck Schumer's. It's the Biden's. You got to throw all of that under the bus and run it over. And people have to hear you say that because I keep hearing, you know, you keep talking about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. No, but your party has been just as ineffective and just as corrupt in a lot of ways. Trust me, I have. I hear you because I've been critical about the style of leadership that's

that gave rise to Donald Trump is also a style of leadership within the Democratic Party. And I think for too long, it's been a party that has valued insider politics, pay your dues, the words and advice of consultants over the people that are Democrats themselves. And I do think it's time for a new generation of leadership. You know,

Cuomo would be the oldest mayor elected in New York City. I would represent a completely new generation. And I think it's important for that because it's not just about age. It's not just about vision. It's also about what has your record been and who have you been fighting for? And is that distinct enough from what got us here?

It's such a strength to be able to unequivocally like bash democratic leadership because they are so unpopular with the entire country. Also at this point with the democratic base. And so that he feels no qualms about being like, yeah, there are a lot of problems there. They're corrupt. They cause a lot of issues. Um,

That's going to be appealing outside of just like a hardcore progressive base. So part of that Quinnipiac poll, which was making waves yesterday, again, whether you believe it or not, is actually the most unpopular thing in that poll was the Democratic Party. Is the Democratic Party approval rating has just 21%. Disapprove is 70%. So running against it, you're an idiot if you're not. It's a no-brainer. I've been aghast at the Democrats, honestly. Like we talked about the DNC. You and me both.

But I never thought I'd be in a position to defend David Hogg. They destroyed this man for nothing. He said, I'm going to primary people who are like not standing up for our values. And then they removed him using some DEI gender component. It's like a cartoon. What did he do wrong? This guy played ball every step of the way. He defended people.

Biden, he's not some Bernie Sanders shit lib. And all he said was, hey, I think we need some new blood. And they cut his head off. They killed him politically. I mean, I can't believe it. I can't believe they would do that to him. I really do think if you're a young Democrat out there, you need to stand up for David Hogg. Like it's not right what they did to him. They nuked him.

Even James Carville said that he agreed with him. Yeah. And they still took him out. I'm aghast, honestly. You should be. At the level of control these people have. They are so useless. It's unbelievable. It's truly unbelievable. So for Zoran to be like, yeah, throw him under the bus. Right, yes, screw him. The bus will be free. I mean, he's, you know, that's like, that is a strength. And I think,

One of the things that we've been looking at, too, is the demographics where he's strongest. And if you're looking for someone who appeals to the bros, Zoran is really clean up in that department. And I think part of it is because of this orientation, because he's anti-system. And I think, you know, part of what's going on here is that is actually more important than what's happening.

where he is on the ideological spectrum. People feel like, oh, he's different. He's willing to criticize his own party. Cuomo, let's put E5 up on the screen. It was the last piece here. Cuomo's main argument against him is that he's not experienced enough, that he doesn't have enough governance experience, which, you know, at the mayor level, this is someone who actually has to do a real job.

Things need to happen for the city's residents. The trash needs to be picked up. The snow needs to be removed. Like, there's contentious local governance issues. And so he's trying to make the most of that that he can. And Zoran is only 33 years old. So that...

Cuomo is, in effect, running a very sort of standard issue establishment playbook. I'm the one who has the experience. You can trust me. You may not love me. That's okay. But I'm the one that you know and can trust, and I can handle the city, and I know what to do. And oh, by the way, that guy's an anti-Semite.

That's basically his playbook. And look, it may be enough. It might be. But I think you have to – if you just look at the trajectory of the polls right now, Zoran has all of the momentum. He sucked up all of the oxygen in the room. The AOC endorsement I do think is actually going to be significant because –

Zoran has, has lagged in terms of appeal to women. I think she could help in that department. He, she also just gives him some legitimacy, you know, given that he does have, you know, a small amount of experience and is relatively young, like having this AOC, who's now a Titan of New York city politics, have her give her blessing, I think is significant as well. I think it's pretty likely Bernie is going to come in for him to last minute. It's a little bit last minute though. I mean,

I mean, it's on Saturday. So or sorry, next Tuesday. Yeah, it is. But he responded like stay tuned or so. So I think that he probably is going to come in as well. And I do think they start voting like this weekend. So it is New York is last between rank choice, early vote and then taking like nine months to get their ballots. We'll find out that this is the election results this year. Next year, this time, something like that.

Completely insane system. In any case, very interesting race. And I think part of the reason to cover it, New York City obviously is consequential in and of itself. But also for taking the temperature of where the Democratic base is, I think is also significant here. Very different than the dynamics that unfolded when Eric Adams was elected. Very true. All right.

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