6/18/25: Trump Says 'We' Control Iran's Skies, Lindsey Graham Floats Troops In Iran, Tucker Exposes Ted Cruz
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Happy Wednesday. Welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you doing? Doing well, Ryan. We've got a big show, lots of developments out in the Middle East to cover. And we have such a packed show. We were going to actually, and I'm not even joking this time, and I know it's hard for people to tell when I'm joking or not, we were going to have Dr. Turtle Boy on to cover the Karen Reid verdict. We were so close. The verdict did not come yesterday. It should have. The judge screwed it up. It's probably going to come this morning.

It's going to be not guilty, I'm telling you now. Maybe they'll get her on the OUI thing, the drinking and driving. It's a really important case for not just police abuse, corruption, but also the First Amendment because Dr. Turtle Boy was charged with a bunch of different crimes for reporting on the case, literally for reporting on the case. And so far he's been victorious in all of those cases. Solidarity with...

Yeah, big time. And just know we are in touch with Turtle Boy. Although not necessarily with everything Turtle Boy believes in. Probably not. But we are in touch with Turtle Boy and we do hope to have him on the show soon. But we're following that case very closely. Maybe we'll have information to cover on the Friday show. We hope to get him. He's done incredible work on that case. So hopefully we'll have him on this week. Yeah, amazing stuff. Ryan, we also have Brad Lander on today's show. Yes.

That's a big get. He's been making headlines across the country after the dust up yesterday in New York City. Yeah, he spent several hours in federal custody yesterday because he was demanding a warrant from masked men who were trying to haul off a New York resident. And so there's video of him. Let me see your warrant. Let me see your warrant. I want to see your warrant. Because there have been people impersonating ICE agents and using...

That kind of cover to to commit crimes. He's demanding to see documentation that they are who they are they arrested him and That might upend the mayoral race, right? So right he's he's currently polling around third, right? But he and Zoran have cross endorsed each other. So in some ways it's a boost for Zoran We will see how what he thinks over the last what he thinks about the last 24 hours will also be joined in

After we cover developments out of Iran, we'll certainly cover new statements from Vice President J.D. Vance. Ted Cruz did an interview with Tucker Carlson that already is promising to be absolutely explosive. We have a couple of clips from that. You're going to want to see those. Ryan has some developments from Gaza. Obviously, many predicted that in the shadow of what was happening in Iran earlier,

There would be some truly awful news to come out of Gaza that has proven sadly accurate. So Ryan is going to break down the latest there in Ross Park and will join us to talk more about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez endorsing Zoran Mamdani in New York City. And Ross will be here to kind of analyze what it means for the left. Yeah, Ross is a terrific independent journalist up in New York City. He's really the guy to follow.

if that's what you're interested in. Yeah, and then we'll be doing a live AMA. So if you are a premium subscriber, you can join us for that. BreakingPoints.com. As a reminder, you can head over there if you want to try out a premium subscription. Ryan, let's get into the first block here. All right, so Trey Yankst for Fox News, who...

Interestingly, a lot of pro-Israel folks have been really angry about because every time that Israel targets and kills

a journalist in Gaza, he stands up for them. He also is willing to interview Palestinians. But he's been reporting out of Israel for a very long time and is generally fairly sympathetic towards Israel. But it shows the lack of kind of any daylight that you're allowed as a reporter without getting criticized. But here he is, just to set off this block, reporting from Jerusalem.

Right now, there are ballistic missiles being fired at Israel's second largest city of Tel Aviv. Currently, missile defense systems are working to shoot down the incoming fire. We are going to take some cover here as this unfolds. You can see in the distance interceptor rounds coming off trying to shoot down. Pull it off the tripod and let's move inside. The flash there in the sky, explosions overhead.

And again, this is the third barrage. I said Jerusalem, he's in Tel Aviv, obviously, which is sustaining most of the ongoing blows. The 10th wave from Iran came yesterday as there seems to be no sign yet of a ceasefire or slowing down of the back and forth here with Israel saying that,

Tomorrow, Thursday, they have some huge surprise up their sleeve that they're going to launch. Yeah. And so the latest reporting is that 50 jets were striking Iran. 50 Israeli jets were striking Iran yesterday. Reportedly, the centrifuge and missile production sites. But that particular...

shot for Trey Yinkst is a dangerous one because the Iron Dome has been breached. There have been successful strikes over the course of the last week. So you can understand why he ran for cover in that case, Ryan. Now,

To your point, Trump posted yesterday. This is A2. This is a true social post from Donald Trump yesterday. All caps, unconditional surrender. I saw that and I was so glad that this is over. We have surrendered. I shouldn't laugh at that. It wasn't actually us surrendering to Iran. It actually meant he had surrendered to Israel and is just going to allow them.

He's like he thought for a while he was going to run American foreign policy, which is an understandable mistake because he ran for president of the United States and won. He got more votes and Netanyahu did not run. Biden ran for a while, but he dropped out, if you may remember. Then Kamala Harris filled in and then all the American people who felt like voting went to the polls and elected somebody to be the president of the United States, which in the Constitution sets American foreign policy.

That was written many hundreds of years ago. So that's not how we do it anymore. It's a living, breathing document. Right. It's a living, dead document. So it's not how we do it anymore. So President Trump here has said that he's actually acknowledging that he's surrendering American foreign policy to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Meanwhile, this is A1. You can see these are installations, nuclear facilities across Tehran reportedly being obliterated, as this post on X puts it, by the IAF. Lots and lots of hits.

The reporting, Ryan, about Trump and the way that he has reacted to this, and it's important that you're watching what you're seeing on your screen right now as we get into this New York Times tidbit. Greg Sargent posted it by saying, pretty funny to watch, quote, anti-war Trump suddenly decide that war making looks totally awesome on TV and gravitate toward war with Iran literally on that basis. He was responding to this Times report.

that when Donald Trump woke up last Friday morning, quote, his favorite TV channel, Fox News, was broadcasting wall-to-wall imagery of what it was portraying as Israel's military genius. Mr. Trump could not resist claiming some credit for himself. In phone calls with reporters, Mr. Trump began hinting that he had played a bigger behind-the-scenes role in the war than people realized. Privately, he told some confidants that he was now leaning toward a more serious escalation, going along with Israel's earlier request that U.S. deliver a powerful bunker busting order.

So, Ryan, that then brings us to A4, which was another post on Truth Social yesterday. Immediately, immediately everyone pointed out the implication of what Trump is saying here when he goes, quote, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. Iran had good sky trackers and other defensive equipment and plenty of it, but it doesn't compare to American-made, conceived and manufactured stuff.

Nobody does it better than the good old USA. So that first line in particular, we now have complete and total control of the skies over Iran. When you combine that with the New York Times report that Craig Sargent posted earlier,

It's an interesting, I think, potential window into the way Donald Trump, on a substantial basis, not even just stylistically, but substantially, is now approaching this war, which is that U.S. involvement projects strength and influence.

There's nothing he likes more than the projection of strength. If he were here and had a fair shot to defend himself, he would say, absolutely, that's policy in and of itself. That strength is the that is the policy. That is the end goal is so that the United States looks strong and hegemonic. And I think that's increasingly what his, quote unquote, America first policy.

foreign policy is conceived of in his own mind. The problem, and we'll talk about this in the next block, is that's not how a lot of his own allies see it. It reminds me a little bit of his approach to the tariffs in the sense that he just launches these tariffs at everybody and says the goal of them ultimately is he's going to force China and Japan and all of these countries to the negotiating table. He's like, they're all, the phone is ringing off the hook, the tariffs are working.

Now, Netanyahu, apparently one of the ways he was able to sell these strikes to Trump is as a way to win leverage in the negotiations. And so there's talk that, oh, he's going to have Witkoff or he's going to send Vance to speak with various Iranian negotiators that he hasn't murdered yet. And that if he can do that, that that's a win. Except in both cases, right?

They were already at the table. You want to talk to China or Japan about trade? Call them up. They're happy to talk. Iran was literally already at the negotiating table. They were supposed to meet last Sunday until they killed some of the negotiators and the meetings were canceled. So then you go ahead and say, oh, one of the things we're trying to do is get them back to the table. It's like when it was first suggested to me the night of the attacks that this was the way that Netanyahu had persuaded Trump,

I thought, not even Trump is that stupid. Like, that makes no sense. Like, you're already negotiating. You don't need to bomb them to negotiate with them. But apparently, that worked. That combined with, look how cool war looks on TV. It's similar to the Qasem Soleimani assassination. In 2020, the Israelis came to...

Trump and said that they wanted to assassinate Soleimani and that they would but they needed the u.s. To do it because they don't they didn't have the they wanted the u.s. To do it But they would take the credit for it the credit slash blame for it Trump said no no I want the credit for it I'm gonna do it and so he used the Saudis to reach out to the Iranians to say that hey, let's let bygones be bygones Let's let's try to ease tensions a little bit. Yeah, I left the Iran nuclear deal and

But let's, you know, let's live together peacefully in this world. The kind of stuff Trump says now. And so they get, they lure him to Baghdad for these peace negotiations. And then when he gets into a car outside the airport with a drone, they,

kill him and everybody in the car. And then he takes credit for it. So all of it's very similar. Pretending to use diplomacy, pretending to care about peaceful coexistence, and then salivating over, like with a real lust that's kind of disturbing. The death and carnage. That's sort of the crux of it is that I think these TikToks are really, the TikTok, New York Times reporting, Axios reporting, they're all

They're full of strategic leaks, and that doesn't mean the reports are incorrect, but it's actually really hard right now to know. We're getting lied to constantly. Totally. And it's for different reasons, too. So part of actually the implication of all that reporting is, in fact, that Trump was

strategically, the administration at least, was strategically leaking that they were dead serious about diplomacy. And they weren't. That's one of the theories. - The dead was the key. - Yeah, the dead is the, that's the operative part of it. But that was, I mean, that's actually part of one of the stories were being sold

is that they were projecting using the media and their own public posturing to project seriousness about these negotiations. We actually still don't know whether or not that's true or whether to the point you just raised that Donald Trump's hand was forced by Netanyahu in a way that made Trump, who wants to always look

hegemonic, who wants to look like he is the embodiment of strength, like his United States is the embodiment of strength, is then his hand is being forced by Netanyahu because he feels like the United States, and Netanyahu knows he feels like the United States, needs to look as though it's in control and post things like, quote unquote, we have total control over the skies.

I don't think we still have a clear answer on what happened. I think we have good indications in one direction or the other, but we still don't quite know. And I think that's where you see J.D. Vance coming in yesterday. He got into a back-and-forth with Cassandra McDonald. We can put A5, we can roll through A5 and A6, actually, but he posted a really lengthy...

note on X yesterday where he said, I'm seeing this from the inside and I'm admittedly biased towards our president, parentheses, and my friend, but there's a lot of crazy stuff on social media. So I wanted to address some things directly on the Iran issue. He first notes that Trump has been, quote, amazingly consistent over 10 years that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He then says, I've seen a lot of confusion over the issue of, quote, unquote, civilian nuclear power and uranium enrichment, but these are distinct,

issues. He says that Iran has been found in violation of their nonproliferation obligations by the International Atomic Energy Agency, and then goes on to actually exchange a post with Cassandra McDonald, Ryan, who was previously Cassandra Fairbanks. Am I right? Yeah, that's right. Okay. And she was previously sort of Bernie adjacent? Yeah.

Yeah, I remember her in 2016 being maybe my memory is going. Correct me if I'm wrong down the comments, but I remember her being like super pro Bernie person in 2016. So he gets into a back and forth with her over Tulsi Gabbard's testimony that U.S. intelligence's assessment was Iran based.

basically was not close to having a nuclear weapon. And she said, are you saying Tulsi and the 18 U.S. intelligence bodies backing the opposite findings less than eight weeks ago are wrong or lying? Yes, it's true. She was an all Bernie person. So it's interesting that this back and forth is between J.D. Vance, who's been on his own political pipeline, and then Cassandra, who was a strong Bernie supporter but felt like the Democrats had ruined what

Bernie stood for and so she went on the pipeline over to MAGA right and so JD replies and says no I'm not saying that first off tell Tulsi's testimony was in March and a lot has changed since then second if you look at what she said then her point about uranium enrichment is consistent with what I wrote above and Ryan we are gonna get into this a little bit in the next block but that is the the new I think attempt for

the quote-unquote America first, anti-Neocon MAGA people who are supportive of Donald Trump's approach over the last week to Israel's attacks on Iran, which are boiling pretty steadily to U.S., full U.S. involvement, to the bunker buster being used, is this argument that this is all consistent because

Things changed since March 27th. They are genuinely very close to enrichment, etc. Right, but I just... Does anybody believe that? That's the thing. That's the thing that I'm wondering about the Trump supporters. You guys have seen the videos of...

Netanyahu is saying since like the 2000s, early 2000s, that if you just do if you use Iran is right around the corner from getting a bomb. There's also some fun videos going around of him starting in 1982.

saying that if the US would just do X, then terrorism will go away. And the first one is in 1982, he says, "If we could just get rid of the Soviet Union, then their puppets, the PLO, will be destroyed and there will be no kind of Palestinian resistance movement." And he says, "And there will be no terrorism anywhere in the world. You get rid of the Soviet Union, there'll be no terrorism." He's like, "Okay, never mind. It didn't work. If you get rid of Saddam Hussein, there'll be no terrorism anywhere and no instability in the Middle East." Isn't that great how that worked?

Ironically, of course, what did taking out Iraq do? It empowered Iran. It took Iran from a regional sub-power to a regional super-power. And so now he says if you take out Iran, then now we're not going to have any problems anymore, no instability. And he's been saying for 20-plus years that we're right around the corner from getting a bomb. And Vance, who was a very smart man,

worded that response to Cassandra very cleverly. What about Tulsi? Was she wrong? And he says, no, a lot has changed since March. But what did he not say there? He did not say we have new intelligence that suggests that since March, Iran is trying to make some breakout for a bomb.

Because according to the intelligence assessments and all of the reporting, we do not have that intelligence. And that is not the case. And the Ayatollah and the political leadership in Iran had not made that decision. They have their own reasons not to want that. They don't want proliferation in the region. Not only do they think that it would be bad for them, and they kind of built the program as a chip to trade away for getting rid of sanctions,

They don't want Saudi Arabia, the UAE and all these other countries to have nuclear weapons either because sometimes they get in conflicts with them. They went through one of the nastiest wars of the last 50 years with Iraq. And those people fought in that war.

So they have their own strategic reasons not to want nuclear weapons. They also know if they use a nuclear weapon against Israel, Israel has second strike capabilities and they're finished. So for all of these reasons, our intelligence assessment is that they're not going for a bomb, or they were not as of a week ago. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

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going on. Karen Reid trial has happened since March. No lies detected. Many other, many things have happened since March. So he can make a true statement, which is fundamentally a lie because Tulsi Gabbard's Intel assessment as of March held on

until the second that they were bombed. So Tulsi Gabbard, this is actually quite interesting. New reporting suggests that Donald Trump was very irked by that video we tried to cover last week, but the news cycle just got insane, of Tulsi Gabbard coming out. And she got really mocked for this because the video was admittedly a bit odd. And we increasingly seem to know why. The video about nuclear conflict is...

Do you remember that she put it out last week? And it started with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Oh, I missed this. And then she covered it, transitioned into a very eerie, vague warning about the imminent threat of nuclear conflict or the looming threat of nuclear conflict would be one way to put it. And

It seems increasingly that was interpreted by people around her and was intentionally was intentionally dropped because Tulsi Gabbard was concerned about potential escalation in this situation now It could be the case that video was actually about Russia Ukraine It could be the case that video was about China. It could be the case of the video which was just a video but

Trump was reportedly irked by it and saw that as you combine it with the fact that Tulsi Gabbard was left out of the Camp David meeting. Now, the reporting is that she had a National Guard conflict. Which, come on. Peter Doocy reported that. Well, there's that. But Peter Doocy reported that she wasn't invited anyway. And so it does seem like the, you know, I think Tulsi Gabbard is sort of a, what's the right word? She'll be.

transgress the conventional wisdom in a group. We've seen her do that. She has a history of doing that, whatever you think of her. And so you can understand why people who are increasingly marching in one direction would leave the dissent out of a Camp David meeting, for example. But I think that's the... However, let's... And not to cut you off, but go back to this point in a second.

This is from the same New York Times article. They write, while everyone knew that Ms. Gabbard was as anti-interventionist as they come, she rarely pushed that view on the president. So congratulations to Tulsi Gabbard, who switched parties to fight regime change wars, to get into a position where you can have an influence to fight against a regime change war,

quote, rarely push that view on the president. Well done. What are you doing? Tulsi, if you're watching, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing? Disagree. Well, I mean, I kind of disagree with that, but I guess it's hard to know. That's the thing with all of these leaks is it's hard to know what's actually happening behind closed doors. I'd rather Tulsi Gabbard be in the administration throwing cold water on all of this. But she's not throwing cold water.

I mean, I guess it's so throw some cold water, Tulsi. The Politico senior administration official told Politico this morning, quote, certainly the video made him Trump not super hot on her. And he doesn't like it when people are off message. So if you're Tulsi Gabbard, obviously, to remain in any position of influence, you have to walk an absolute tightrope. And I guess it's just hard to know the extent to which she's done that. I'm glad that it's not.

I'll just say Bush 43 at the White House right now. There's at least some possibility of someone raising some cold water. But yeah, you're right. I mean, it could be literally just putting out the cryptic video. Yeah. Well, when she resigns in protest or gets fired, standing imitation, please come on the program and tell us exactly what you did to fight against these people.

Virginia change wars. And to your point, J.D. Vance is going to have to fill in that blank of what happened if he wants to remain consistent and placate actually a lot of people in MAGA world. He is going to have to ultimately fill in the blank of what changed since March, especially if the United States involvement increases. Now, the Supreme Leader, Khamenei, has responded and said that Iran won't accept, quote, imposed war or imposed peace.

and has warned that any United States strikes will have, quote, serious irreparable consequences. The reporting is also that Iran is potentially preparing to hit U.S. bases. That's not surprising at all, but U.S. bases in the region, which means that we could be dragged into this, as everyone knows, at any moment, but that also that there could be deaths,

of U.S. military personnel at any moment. And so we are right now simmering on the edge of, it doesn't look like we're heading for de-escalation in any way whatsoever. It looks like right now we're teetering on the brink of a full-blown war. Yeah, and according to Yoav Galan, we can play this here, it is our obligation, the United States' obligation, to enter into this war of their choosing. Let's play A7. I believe...

that the United States of America and the President of the United States have an obligation to make sure that the region is going to a positive way and that the world is free from Iran that possesses nuclear weapons in the middle of the richest place in oil and gas in the world. This could be a disaster for the world.

And I believe that the determination of the American president that has been shown recently will pave the way to America to enter into this very important operation. The president of the United States has the option to change the Middle East and influence the world. So if you read the New York Times piece very closely,

You get to parts where it just doesn't make sense. Like Trump is on the phone with Netanyahu telling him he doesn't want Netanyahu to attack Iran while he's still doing the negotiations. And he gets off the phone. He's like, well, nothing I can do. It looks like he's going to do it. And we might have to join him. Might have to help him out. It's like, really? Otherwise, we look weak from his perspective. Or you say you're not doing that. And if you do, we're not replenishing your weapons stocks.

Yeah, that would be strange. Which they have their own domestic industry and there are people in Israel who have been calling for less US military support because they want to build up their own weapons industry even more than it is so that they are completely independent and can continue war endlessly without any pressure from anybody, including us. So let them do that then. Tell Netanyahu, okay, if that's what you're going to do, you're going to do it alone. But

It sounds like Netanyahu just told him what he was gonna do and basically you're gonna help us whether you like it or not. What did we have the whole election for? We spent like a year on this dumb show covering the presidential election. Why?

- Should we just cover-- - Just cover the Israeli elections? - Yeah, I guess so. - Well, Donald Trump, when he first won the Republican primary, was

winning a lot of votes, specifically as a critic of American foreign policy, which led a lot of people to categorize him sort of neatly as an anti-interventionist, which has never been true. We knew that from his first term, that that was never true. And the Times report, and we can go full circle here, that we mentioned at the beginning of this block about Trump seeing on Fox News the images of Israel bombing Iran,

And an inching closer and closer to war again that is all of this is strategic leaking its fog of war media information So you have to you know learn we all have to learn from what's happened many times in the past and try the best we can to piece together the puzzle of what happened here and that's already hard enough to do with Donald Trump's foreign policy because I think it's it's so often about optics and

But that's why that particular part of the report rings true. I mean, he just spent tens of millions of dollars on a military parade for, admittedly, the reason of optics. That's the, I guess... Which just killed a woman. I saw that. On the tanks. On New York Avenue here in D.C. But that is the predicate of peace through strength. I mean, it's obviously not just optics, but that the projection of strength is the...

And this is taking in good faith, obviously, that argument. And I'm not saying that the argument is being made by everyone in good faith, because certainly it's not, but that you have to look strong in order to have your foreign policy serve as a deterrent. Now, the problem is that is very seductive, and it easily ends up boiling into hot conflict. That's why it's always been sort of funny to see in a tragic way, but...

The peace through strength conservative movement reported repeatedly support hot conflicts from Gulf War. Then you can get into Iraq, obviously, and Afghanistan, but also even just like post-Cold War skirmishes and different outposts. Peace through strength is really easy for that to just go strength. And you never actually get to the peace. Right.

That would be the history of the American empire, right? Definitely the history of the last 30 years, at least the last 30 years. But we don't quite know where this is going. We do have this quote. And again, this is a Trump administration official to Dasha Burns at Politico, quote, the movement right now is away from diplomacy and toward U.S. involvement. We are moving toward taking out Iranian nuclear facilities, quote,

So that's what's on the table. It could happen at any moment. Yes. The logic seems to inexorably lead to a strike on the Fordow and a mountain nuclear facility. Like that seems to be like I'm not making predictions, but like that that's where that's where this is headed. Yeah, it's hard to see where that goes from here. But what oil is what?

up to what, 70 something a barrel now? Oil prices are surging. Iran is threatening to mine the Strait of Hormuz, which is where half the world's oil moves through. Iranian, UAE and Saudi oil moves through there. Natural gas from Qatar moves through there. China has built a railway from China to Tehran to ship oil from

Iran to China It's not fully operational. It's I think it's first kind of maiden voyage was a couple weeks ago But once that gets going they'll be able to move enormous amounts of oil into China which is where most of the Iranian oil goes because of our Stupid sanctions they get it actually much cheaper than the otherwise would incredible American policy Our policy is going to be that one of the world's biggest oil producers must sell its oil at a discount to our adversary China That's our policy

Right. Because reasons. Reasons. Well, just before we leave this block and get into the politics of it...

The death toll right now, according to one human rights group, they're saying it's at least 585 Iranians wounded. That's the death toll. Wounded is north of 1,300. That's according to the group human rights activists. There are other estimates that put that a bit lower. The Associated Press reports that Iran has a history of downplaying death tolls and that

So the higher number might be the safer assumption in this case, but 24 dead in Israel as well. And it looks, Ryan, like those numbers aren't going to slow down. Yeah, and Trump said everybody in Tehran needs to evacuate. Then he backed off of that. Israelis have said everybody in, I think, District 18 in Tehran needs to evacuate, which is in the center of the city.

It's a city of 10 million people. We've spoken to people who are there and are in contact with them. They said there's no gas. You know when you have a crisis, you can't replenish the gas supplies at the gas stations? So there's no gas. So if you don't have a tank of gas, you're not getting out of town. Also, traffic is utterly gridlocked. And it's a city of 10 million people. So you cannot just flat evacuate it.

Banks are shut down because of Israeli hacks. This hacker group called Predatory Sparrow, which is known to be affiliated with Israel, hacked two IRGC-linked banks, which are also very popular banks among regular people. So people can't get their money. I'm also told that this same hacker group took down kind of this IRGC-linked crypto business.

company, I forget what it's called, and made off with like $47 million. And so Iranians, in order to-- because of sanctions, crypto is a very popular means of moving money around just between-- just from people overseas into Iran, like you live in Los Angeles, you send money to your family back into Iran, crypto is an easy way to do it.

That has been routed. So, yeah, the destruction, aside from the kind of physical and material destruction. And so then you tell somebody you need to evacuate under those circumstances. Like, it's not going to happen. People are just going to hunker down and hope that they don't get killed. And finally, let's put this last element on screen, A8. This is the debate over why.

War powers that is escalating in Congress now, obviously with Republican control of the House and the Senate, it's unlikely this is brought to the floor or becomes a serious possibility of getting passed. But as The New York Times reports here,

In the House, a Democrat or Republican, quote, teamed up on Tuesday to introduce a resolution that would require congressional approval before U.S. troops could engage in offensive attacks against Iran, the measure by Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey, underscored a view held by many in Congress that Mr. Trump should not be able to decide on his own whether the U.S. wades deeper into the conflict. Now, Senator Tim Kaine on Monday introduced a similar resolution, the Times says, referring to the upper chamber there. And Brian,

this is, I can't believe we're even, it is so quaint and so obvious that this is, should not be covered by the AUMFs. But here we are. And it's, it's hardly making a rip. Do they even claim that it's covered by the AUMF? The AUMF passed in 2002 is aimed at Al Qaeda and its allies. Al Qaeda and Iran, you

you know, basically a war. And Soleimani, of course. Yeah. Right, exactly. So to the extent that al-Qaeda exists as it used to, like Iran is their adversary. So trying to use it in that context would be absurd. I think they're just not even caring. No. They're just going to do it. And so Tim Kaine has put forward in the Senate and Massey in the House a War Powers Resolution

And Bernie Sanders has put forward in the Senate a bill that would basically say you can't that would block the use of funds for an attack on Iran. The we asked Tim Kaine why he went this route rather than blocking funds.

And Cain told us, drop Sayyid, we'll have a story later today, teaming up with the prospect, actually, that he wanted something privileged. Privileged means the leadership in the House and Senate cannot block it. That's why Massey would have done the resolution that way, too. So it comes. So it has to at least come to the floor for a vote. It's what the bite that it has is less significant.

than if you pull funds. Because saying, hey, we say you can't do this, it's unconstitutional. Presidents have been like, whatever. Take a hike. We're doing it anyway. But they're going to at least put people on record. Or that's the hope, at least. And could get up to... I think they're at 27 or 30 co-sponsors at this point. That'd be incredible. Right, but it's... But it's still the...

Raises the question of where, why isn't the Democratic Party seizing this opportunity? Like, A, you think Trump is a tyrant. He manhandled a senator last week, indicted a Democratic member of Congress last week for some ICE stuff or two weeks ago. Yesterday, he arrested a, he as in ICE, Democratic mayoral candidate in New York. You think this guy's a tyrant.

You don't think he has legal authority to launch this war and you're just gonna kind of sit back and let Tim Kaine and Bernie Sanders and then Massey do something. Ro Khanna called out, I think he's gonna be on the program Friday. Ro Khanna called out Schumer for Schumer's, Schumer's response was, you know, you know, if we decide we're gonna do it, we will definitely assert our authority. Like what? I mean, if you decide you're gonna, what kind of thing is that to say? Like do it or don't do it. Yeah.

So in other words, you're not. But this is why Congress should vote on these decisions. It's exactly why Congress should be forced to vote on these decisions. Yeah, of course. People should in a...

Republic should have a say in this stuff. Completely insane. But here we are. Yeah. So, yeah. You can call your member of Congress. Tell them to co-sponsor this resolution, this War Powers resolution, so at least there's some counterpressure. Yeah. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.

I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No.

Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

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Ryan, speaking of counter pressure and the degree to which it may or may not exist in the West Wing and in the Republican Party, let's transition to this next block where we're going to start here with Lindsey Graham on Fox News yesterday making a statement that then reverberated across X on, and particularly with people who are typically outspoken.

allies of Donald Trump who are influential voices on the right. So let's first roll Lindsey Graham on Fox News and then get into the reaction that it set off. Can you guarantee that? Can President Trump in any form, I mean, can you make the commitment that this would not lead to a longer war?

I can guarantee you that if the Ayatollah gets a nuclear weapon, he will use it. I believe that with all my heart and soul. So the men and women who serve, they're the ones going, not people answering a poll. And if you ask them, would you be willing to risk your life to stop the Ayatollah from having a nuclear weapon?

All of them would say yes because it makes their country, our country safer. So we live in a world where you've got to confront problems. You want to avoid World War III? Learn the lessons from World War II. People in World War II appeased Hitler to the point that it got so much out of hand we had a world war and 60 million people got killed. So we live in a world where you pay now or you pay later.

I hope it's eliminated. I would like to see this regime fall, but I'm going to leave it up to the president as to what to do and when to do it. But I do know this. If we don't take out their nuclear program now, we'll all regret it. We're very close. Be all in, Mr. President, in helping Israel finish the job, and let's see where we're at after we neutralize their nuclear program.

So it goes without saying that Charlie Kirk is obviously very close to Donald Trump, very close to the White House, and particularly close to Donald Trump Jr. This, B2, is how Charlie Kirk responded to Lindsey Graham's statement that he would like to see the regime fall. He says,

Resist this. Matt Walsh of The Daily Wire responded, Lindsey Graham is calling for a full-scale invasion of Iran for the sake of, quote, fighting for our freedom. This is insane, reckless madness from a warmongering asshole who's been in office for 30 years and never done a single thing to make life better for Americans. Every single, every true America First conservative should reject this maniac and everyone like him. Referring to Lindsey Graham, a regime change war in the Middle East has never made Americans better.

freer. Ryan, obviously the goal right now of Lindsey Graham and his allies is to convince MAGA world that this time is different. You mentioned this earlier. This time, JD Vance, to the point that he was responding to Cassandra McDonald about, this time,

There is different information since March and trust us when we say it. Right. This time, we're just, you know, we're the good guys here. We're not doing what those... We'll be greeted as liberators this time. This time, we are not Colin Powell in front of the U.N.,

Things really did change since March, for example, and that's where they find themselves right now, which is quite interesting because they've dined out for the last decade on criticizing Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld and all of those genuine neoconservatives.

They've dined out for about a decade on slamming them and doing it, to borrow a word you used earlier in the show, lustily, with great glee. And here they find themselves, apparently, listen, maybe this time is different. Seems unlikely. Maybe. And here they find themselves in the same exact situation. And to give credit to kind of the MAGA movement, it is willing to have...

debates over policy to give discredit to the MAGA movement because everyone is so loyal to Trump and because Trump takes loyalty so seriously and holds such long grudges, those debates can never include criticism of Trump. So in this case, Lindsey Graham presents a nice target for people who want to criticize Trump's policy here.

but don't want to criticize Trump. So when Lindsey Graham goes so far out on a limb and says such extreme stuff, it's like, okay, now we feel free because Lindsey Graham has had his ups and downs with Trump. He's tight with him, but he's also like said he's done with them. You know, remember, Trump gave his phone number out at a rally. Yeah, that's like 2016 vintage. So Lindsey Graham is fair game.

within MAG. You can hit him. And so they're kind of taking that opportunity. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz, meanwhile, make an awful lot of sense. Let's roll them on OAN. Matt, I see it just as you do, and you laid that out so

Wow, so well. That's the America first message, but it's also the truth that the American people have woken up to. We've watched for decades propaganda news. I'll call out Fox News and the New York Post. They're known to be the neocon network news. We have propaganda news on our side, just like the left does. And the American people have been brainwashed.

into believing that America has to engage in these foreign wars in order for us to survive. And it's absolutely not true. Prime Minister Netanyahu said, I saw on video, he said today that America first is America dead. And that sounds like a threat to me. And I completely, completely disagree with him on that. Can OAN get a better mic for Marjorie Taylor Greene?

You're on cable. You lobbied Congress to force cable companies to pay you so you could be on cable. Use some of that money. Send her a mic. Come on. What are you doing? What are you guys doing here? You should send it to her just as a courtesy. I'll send her a mic if she'll use it. Let's jump to B6 before we get to Bill Mitchell. B6 is Donald Trump Jr. And I need you to unpack this for us. So, the Soviet Union.

says, you know, he's close to Bannon, close to Trump. You know, when people warn that regime change war would break up the MAGA coalition, consider that that is exactly what the neocons want. The never Trumpers. And then

Trump Jr. says this is 100% right. I'd add neocons and Democrats. And that's why I think my criticism, by the way, should be taken even more seriously. Because I recognize that if you go to war, this probably does blow up the mega coalition, which, hey, fine. I'd rather that the mega coalition stay together and we don't get war.

But it's true that for a lot of the like Rich Lowry types and others who want war, and actually this is a good opportunity to put up Bill Mitchell before you respond to that. So put up B5. B5 is Bill Mitchell who became this kind of Democrat basically, right? But he says, has anyone considered the possibility that America has miraculously survived so many close calls over the centuries of

is that our purpose is to defend Israel. If we quit Israel, I believe God may quit us, and I'm not prepared to take that chance. Didn't Bill Mitchell become kind of anti-Trump? I think he did, but he's known as hardcore MAGA to the point of being almost like the caricature of a MAGA boomer on X. But I think he may have then moved away from it a bit. But that is a...

There were some people on the right mocking that post or expressing just real opposition to what's in that post that's reflective of what we've talked about before, dispensationalism, fairly common evangelical approach to Israel Reinhardt's giggling. And it's basically, yeah, what he's saying is that

And he's making it even more political than the basic theory is, but dispensationalism is that Israel plays a role, obviously, that political Israel, not the sort of historic nation of Israel, but that political Israel as the nation state that exists right now in 2025, plays a role in the end times. And then politically, that has nudged a lot of evangelical Christians, I think, into

Mike Huckabee has sort of played very carefully with this in the past, but I think probably including Mike Huckabee. Oh, definitely. Yeah, and everyone remembers his text message to Trump from yesterday, which was sort of, I

I think the implication of it is that he's thinking of this like Bill Mitchell told Donald Trump that God saved him for a reason and then said he wasn't leaving Israel. Huckabee said he wasn't leaving Israel. Like, please bring upon the apocalypse. It felt like that. You could read into it that way. Yeah. So this is what's being pushed back on by everyone else. So Trump Jr., not that he has a whole lot of influence on Trump Sr., but what should we read into...

Trump Jr. cautioning against the very regime change war that his father now seems to be getting excited about.

So Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Trump Jr., these people are very close to each other. And I think... And Vance is kind of buddies with them, right? And Vance is very in that. Yes, absolutely. And reporting is that J.D. Vance has politely opposed... We were talking about Tulsi earlier, but that J.D. Vance has internally politely opposed this. Again, we don't know how much of that is true. Could just be strategic leaks from the Vance camp to sort of cover himself. But that's what's been suggested. So I...

My best guess, Ryan, is that what this is is genuine opposition. We keep hearing the Charlie Kirks say, trust Trump. We keep hearing J.D. Vance saying he trusts the commander in chief. We've heard a couple of others say that. Politicians, elected officials, Republican MAGA elected officials say that in the last 48 hours, that they just trust Donald Trump's instincts on all of this. So I think my best guess is that they are inclined to believe

be very skeptical, suspicious, and opposed to what's happening and have expressed that privately but are publicly trying to play both sides and look like they're skeptical and suspicious of it. So they're taking every opportunity to lash out at Lindsey Graham. He can kind of be the whipping boy here so that it makes it look like they're not fully neoconservative, even as Donald Trump considers doing exactly what Lindsey Graham is calling for.

All right, well. That's my best guess. I mean, hey. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be.

These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships.

I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. No.

Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets.

kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today.

I came out because I literally had a contract ripped up in front of me. On a recent episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain, I spotlighted an inspiring out athlete, pro golfer Mel Reid. I think everyone's story is different. I've been very lucky that I've got a very supportive family who literally don't care. It's a part of me. I'm certainly not ashamed of it. And I think that there should be more representation in it.

To hear this and more on identity, inclusivity, and the power of being seen, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. Let's move from there to Tucker, because I think that's a good segue into this.

much and now much anticipated interview Ted Cruz sat down with Tucker Carlson for his his cabin podcast and Tucker has so far released two clips and

Ted Cruz already salty about the clips that have been released The entire podcast episode is not out yet, but it appears like it's going to be Tucker Carlton and Ted Cruz arguing about war with Iran for a very long time Let's roll the first bit. How many people live in Iran by the way? I don't know the population at all No, I don't know the population. You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple. How many people live in Iran? 92 million. Okay. Yeah, how could you not know that?

I don't sit around memorizing population tables. Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government. Why is it relevant? Whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million? Why is that relevant? Because if you don't know anything about the country. I didn't say I don't know anything about the country. Okay, what's the ethnic mix of Iran?

they are Persians and predominantly Shia. OK, this is you don't know anything about Iran. So, OK, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran. You're a senator who's calling the government. You're the one who claims about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. You're the one who can't

figure out if it was a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad. You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump. Yes, I do. Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. And if you really believe that. We're carrying out military strikes today. You said Israel was. Right. With our help.

I said we, Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them. Well, you're breaking news here because the U.S. government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity at all. No, we're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them. You just said we were.

We are supporting Israel. It's high stakes. You're a senator. If you're saying the United States government is at war with Iran right now, people are listening. Now, one reason some of this might be important, Sager flagged this this morning. Let's put up B9. So this is the Iraq war coverage is extremely important to go back over because so much of what we're seeing today is.

directly mirrors what we saw in 2001 and two in the lead up to the 2003 invasion.

And I'll just read from this. Quote, this looks like the New York Times font. During their conversation with the president, Peter Galbraith claims, it became apparent to them that Bush was unfamiliar with the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites. Galbraith reports that the three of them spent some time explaining to Bush that there are two different sects in Islam, to which the president allegedly responded, I thought the Iraqis were Muslims.

And so, Emily, I've seen a lot of people defending Ted Cruz here saying, look, you don't have to read the CIA World Factbook about every country to know whether or not you want to invade them. And, you know, Cruz's point there is like, doesn't matter if there's 80 million or 110 million. You could say, OK, maybe that particular data point doesn't matter, 70 to 110 million. It's 50, 40, 50 million people we're talking about here. But OK, fine. Let's grant that.

The ethnicity, the ethnic breakdown is so important because what happened in Iraq? Like what? Like, just think about it. Like what? What actually happened after we invaded? Exactly what Peter Galbraith, by the way, warned would say, warned would happen. He said, hey, right now.

You have a Sunni minority who is in control of the country in the form of Saddam Hussein. There's a Shia majority and there's a Kurdish population up in the north that do not like Saddam Hussein. And in fact, there was a no-fly zone at the time, kind of basically creating a de facto independent Kurdish region in the north. If you get rid of Saddam Hussein, Iran is going to arm and empower Iran.

Shia militias who are going to spark a sectarian civil war in Iraq. Yeah, that's what was predicted and if you didn't know These basic facts about the country. Yeah, you would not be able to do that analysis. So to say that Oh Iran is Persian and you know predominantly Shia is to then say well We'll knock off one Shia Ayatollah and we'll get it and we'll get up. We'll put a Shia

you know, Reza, you know, we'll throw in the Shah's kid. Right. And everything will be fine. Your colleague, Sorab, over at Unheard, Amani, wrote a piece recently that actually, and maybe that's where Tucker got it. Maybe he read that and was like, oh, this sounds very familiar. He wrote a piece saying, look,

Yes, there are a lot of Shia Persians in Iran, but it's like barely a majority. In fact, it doesn't even include the Ayatollah, who's a Zari. You have a Kurdish region in the northwest, which we love to foment. Anywhere we can find a population anywhere that is interested and that has some skepticism of the metropole, we'd love to go in and

Send them some weapons and some encouragement. Some weapons and some encouragement. Yeah, go ahead. Express your national interest. Yeah. Go ahead. You know, we do that everywhere. And we're not the only ones that know how to do that. So if you create this power vacuum and you have half the country fighting the other half of the country, fighting other sects of the country...

That seems like something we should consider before we go into war. So that's why I think it's not fair to say

that Tucker was asking him trivia questions. Yeah. No, I mean, listen, I think Tucker's using those questions as a way, a clever way to make a point. Ted Cruz is like the smartest, one of the top five smartest senators. IQ-wise, he's up there for sure. Yeah. He and Mike Lee and

Yeah. Bernie's smart? I can't tell. I think he's pretty smart. I think he's pretty smart, yes. So Cruz responded, quote, did a long interview with Tucker. He released a snippet playing a, quote, gotcha on the population of Iran. I decline to play that silly game. Watch the full two-hour interview where Tucker attacks Trump, attacks the AIPAC lobby, and falsely claims Iran is not trying to assassinate Trump. So Cruz, interestingly enough, is advertising this video as heavily as Tucker, if not even more.

heavily than Tucker. He also reposted an attempt to criticize Tucker that said, "Tucker, what's the Ayatollah's favorite color?" "Ted Cruz." "I don't know." "Tucker, how then can you support an attack on Iran?" "Cruz, because they're building nuclear weapons and want to destroy America and Israel." "Tucker, that's ridiculous." He told me his favorite color is blue. So yeah, I mean, again, Ted Cruz makes a point that I think actually- It's red. Obviously, his favorite color is red. I mean, come on. It's so easy. It's so easy.

He loves our lighting, sources say. But here at Breaking Boys. It's an homage to the Ayatollah. Yeah. People are going to believe it when you say that. He's...

Tucker's trying to make a very legitimate point. Ted Cruz, I think, has a fairly legitimate response where he says, what does it matter whether the population is 80 million or 100 million or 92 million? That's fine. I'll give him that. That is a perfectly legitimate response. But what Tucker's trying to get at with that line of questioning has he built to what is the ethnic breakdown of Iran is exactly what Sager pointed out, is that we sit here and play risk from air-conditioned

conference rooms in Washington, D.C., basically, and then a bunch of poor American kids end up getting dragged into it, and you kill a bunch of civilians. I mean, already 70 women and children have reportedly been killed over the last week in Iran. So that's already happening. And so it's easy, I think, to get caught up, especially when we look back and comparing what happened in the early days of the buildup in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's just so...

so easy to get caught up in war as a culture war, as a war as like actual war. And I think Tucker's making a perfectly legitimate point. I'm excited to watch the full two hours here. I think we know what Ted Cruz is going to say, but you made a point earlier in the show I found interesting that at least MAGA is willing to debate these sort of things.

I guess that's true. I mean, this is two pretty high-profile, mainstream MAGA voices sitting down and talking

yelling at each other and encouraging people to watch their argument. I guess that's a glass half full take. And notice what Ted Cruz used as two of his retorts to Tucker Carlson in his tweet. Tucker Carlson criticized Trump. Like that's his argument. His argument is not, I was right about X, Y, Z. It's Tucker Carlson said something mean about Trump.

So therefore, Tucker Carlson should be rejected. And then he also says, and Tucker Carlson doesn't believe that the Iranians are trying to kill Trump. Right. Which there's this whole thing that there was this intel report, which apparently Trump does not believe either. Right. That he thinks that this was the deep state lying to him to try to manipulate him. Mm-hmm.

this claim that Iran was actually trying to kill Trump. There's much more evidence that Ukraine, did you follow that one assassin? Yeah. Much more evidence that Ukraine was actually, or somebody in Ukraine. I was going to say somebody in Ukraine, yeah. We should cover that assassination attempt more in depth. You can go Google it. There's this indictment

where one of the guys who tried to kill Trump was in communication with Ukrainians. I was like, what? So let's go bomb them, I guess. But Tucker's response was, you don't really think that Iran is trying to kill Trump because if you did, you would support bombing them right now for that. And you don't. You support bombing them over the claims of nuclear enrichment or whatever. So...

He's saying he's basically saying nobody believes it and it's all just a lie. And so the question going forward then is how Donald Trump reacts. I mean, obviously, he's been very critical of Tucker Carlson just in the last several days. But does he.

Does Trump continue siding with Tucker or continue siding with Ted Cruz over Tucker? Or does Trump, who is always putting his ear to the ground on his base, as far as his base is concerned? Remember, even he was concerned that Netanyahu had a quote unquote public relations problem in Gaza about a year ago. So does does Trump falter on any of this or not?

Does he see this ultimately in his best interest or does he see this as something that's necessary for him to do in order to maintain the support of his own coalition, including like he knows, for example, Tucker. He thinks that Tucker will always be with him. I don't think that's the case, but he thinks that he can keep Tucker and Don Jr. and Charlie Kirk on board forever.

which I think that is probably true. And Tulsi Gabbard, I don't know about that, but can he do that and still keep Mary Madelson happy? Can he do that and still keep Ted Cruz happy? And the people who believe the same things that Ted Cruz does, can you keep those people happy? And does he think it's more important to keep those people happy? Does he agree with him? We just honestly have no idea at this point. And that's...

It's a huge open question. So the other clip Tucker released is them going back and forth on Mossad spying on the United States. Let's roll this one. Does Mossad share all of its intelligence with us? Probably not, but they share a lot. We don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close alliance. Do they spy domestically in the United States? Oh, they probably do. And we do as well. And friends and allies spy on each other. And I assume all of our allies spy on us. And that's okay with you?

You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all – part of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self-interest. So it's conservative to pay people to spy on you? Yeah.

it's conservative to recognize that human beings act to their own self-interest and every one of our friends spies on us. And I'm not, do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I, and by the way, I'm not mad at them, but you're an American lawmaker. So I just want to know, hold on. I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle, the only criterion. I said guiding the overwhelming. I wouldn't say only.

Is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president? It is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want to see the clearest... But I just want to stop on the spying for a second. That it takes place, as you know,

including on the president of the United States and several precedents. And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, you're not allowed to spy on us. I'm sorry. I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to. Sure. And I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. It's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that. Yeah, what Tucker's poking at there is this longtime argument from critics of Israel that Israel is not a very good ally. Mm-hmm.

And Tucker's saying, look, I don't blame them. They're looking out for their own interests. And fine. But we are Americans. We can look out for our own interests. And if they're going to constantly spy on us, Boris Johnson famously said he thought Netanyahu himself bugged his bathroom when he stayed at his place. Netanyahu's always coming in with these massive diplomatic bags and people are like,

haha, it's funny that he is, you know, having his laundry washed here. What else do you think he's bringing in there? Right. It's not just his laundry. Wait, no, the laundry actually is a, yeah, that's a thing. It's this thing that like, he brings dirty laundry because it's a free laundry service for like foreign leaders. To get the water gate or something. Yeah. Um,

And everybody laughs about it. It's like, morons. He's bringing in more than his laundry. It's never just laundry. It's not just laundry. It's never just laundry. Yeah, I mean, the idea is that our interests are always aligned, right? That's the line that Ted Cruz is trying to pitch. They were caught somewhat recently putting a whole bunch of, like,

scanners around the White House. Right. And what Carlson is saying there is that the interests of the United States and Israel are not always aligned in some pretty significant ways. But also, I think he referred to them in that clip as a client, a client state. And so I think the point that he's making is that Israel's interests should, as a client state, as he said, but I mean, either way, they were 20% of their military budget annually. And they've said that they wouldn't be able to prosecute the war in Gaza if it weren't for us. So

If you are that dependent on another nation, you may think it's in your interest to spy on that nation. But you, Ted Cruz, as a representative of that nation, should tell them not to because you have the power. And this is what we were talking about earlier in the show when you mentioned that actually if Trump was interested in projecting strength, strength would be coming out and telling Netanyahu to cut it out and seeing how that would go and, you know,

So it's a fair point from Tucker, obviously, that if you, again, want the United States to be so supportive of Israel to the point where Israel is dependent on the United States for its actual existence, which is obviously the case from their perspective and from Ted Cruz's perspective, then shouldn't you tell them maybe not to spy on the United States and not just give them that tacit, hey, everybody does it, so go on ahead and tap our...

phones and our white house and all that it seems reasonable seems reasonable seems reasonable nothing is reasonable about this though no i'm jeff pearlman and i'm rick jervis we're journalists and hosts of the podcast finding sexy sweat at an internship in 1993 we roomed with reggie paine aspiring reporter and rapper who went by sexy sweat a couple years ago we set out to find him but in 2020 reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up we

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